Joam da Costa (Might be his birth record -- can't really read it) Help!

[Joseph Costa]

I think I may have found my 4th great grandfather's,  Joam da Costa's, birth record, but I'm not sure.  Per my previous post,  he is the son of Matheus da Costa and Jozefa Pacheco (also appears as Pachequa or Pacheca).  Can anyone read this.  In the link below, it's on the right-hand page in the lower right corner.  Looks like this is from Sept 1751?  I need help verifying that these are in fact the names of the parents on this record.  What about grandparents' names?  Anyone see those?

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-B-1751-1758/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-B-1751-1758_item1/P23.html

[Dano]

Joseph, This is indeed difficult to read, but not impossible. Joam's name is mentioned at the beginning " legitimate (abbrv) son of "Mathias" da Costa native of this freguesia of Sam Miguel of Villa Franca do Campo nasceo (was born) on the 4th day of the month of September 1751, and, was baptized in this same church of Sam Miguel, matriz of the aforementioned Villa, parish of his parents on the sixth day of the current month and year by me, Maoel de Medeiros , Curate of this matriz. Godfather was Mathias de Andrade, single, parishioner of this Matriz, and witnesses Pedro Corea, and Miguel Pereyra, and for the record I dated this day, month and as above.

[Dano]

Joseph, I neglected to mention that I didn't see Joam's mother listed in the record (which is somewhat odd). As for the Grandparents, they weren't listed in the early records. I'm not sure, but, I believe they weren't added until the early, or, mid 1800's'. Possibly Cheri, Doug, or JR can chime in.

On Thursday, March 20, 2014 2:45:13 PM UTC-4, Joseph Costa wrote:

[Hermano C. Pires]

Joseph and Dano.
My two cents worth: Joao son of Mathias da Costa and Josefa ____ (can't make out with certainty the first word on the second line), looks like do Paroto (which doesn't make sense to me).
Hermano
 

---

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 15:14:56 -0700
From: dpa...@gmail.com
To: azo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Joam da Costa (Might be his birth record -- can't really read it) Help!

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[Cheri Mello]

Yes, generally the grandparents appear in the baptisms from the mid-1800s onwards.
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

[Margaret Vicente]

Hi, 

The mother is Josefa do Canto.

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[pi...@dholmes.com]

The only guarantee the grandparents were listed was on 1 July 1860 forward.

But many started before that. Sometimes even the latter 1700s.

On Madeira, it is normal to list them in the 1700s, even for marriages. And I have seen that on the mainland, too.

Doug da Rocha Holmes
Sacramento, California
Pico & Terceira Genealogist
916-550-1618

www.dholmes.com

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Joam da Costa (Might be his birth record
-- can't really read it) Help!

From: Dano <dpa...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, March 20, 2014 3:39 pm
To: azo...@googlegroups.com

[Joseph Costa]

Thanks.  I showed this to Joao Ventura and he doesn't think that it's a birth record for "Joam", but rather "Nicolao (or Nicolau).

[Dano]

That's usually how things become standard practice - someone builds a better mousetrap, and before you know it everyone wants one:)

[Isabella Baltar]

I don't read neither Joam, nor legitimate. This is a very decorative  penmanship and needs further study on this specific handwriting. I quiclkly went back and forth on some pages to check on the scriber writing and the way he writes Joam is very different from that one, the word legitimate as well is not present after his name. 

Joseph, I suggest you to research that book and try to find a similar pattern for that name, if you think this record is from your family.

Isabella Baltar

myportuguesegen.blogspot.com

[pi...@dholmes.com]

Hello Joseph,

I couldn't resist your challenge.

What is clear is the "ao" ending. That leaves one with a lot fewer choices for names.

Expanding on that, it is pretty clear there is an "l" before the "al" and that now gives you "lao" and once you see that, you can see the "u" before the "l" and before the "u" you see a large "C" and there is nothing left to choose but Niculao and I am going with that.

Moving over to the parents, the father is Mathias, not Matheus. So it's Matias da Costa and Josefa. But her second name is maybe "Parobo" and I don't recognize that as a real name. So for another reason, you must find another example from another child and hope it's more clear.

As for Isabella's comment about "legitimo" I looked over the following baptisms from this priest and he isn't using that word on any of them. But what is lacking in your record is the phrase "e de sua mulher" (and of his wife) which is not in all the records, but in many of them. The ones where that phrase is lacking might mean those couples are not married, but there are so many that I doubt it. You would have to study all these couples and find or not find their marriages to see whether this priest is simply not consistent.

You will see on page 0026 the baptism of a child named Agostinho and the father is another "Niculao."

Good luck!

Doug da Rocha Holmes
Sacramento, California
Pico & Terceira Genealogist
916-550-1618

www.dholmes.com

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Joam da Costa (Might be his birth record
-- can't really read it) Help!

From: Isabella Baltar <myportu...@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, March 22, 2014 5:12 am
To: azo...@googlegroups.com

--
 

[Joseph Costa]

Thank you Doug. I do see what you mean, and I now think that this does say Niculao, which means that this is not my ancestor. Still can't find my Joam.....

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[Joseph Costa]

Thanks Isabella. I have since determined that this is not my ancestor. I'm till trying to find my Joam's birth record.

[Margaret Vicente]

After having studied the writing of the Priest Manuel de Medeiros letter by letter; I read the name Francisco and concur it is not Joao.  

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[pi...@dholmes.com]

Joseph,

How about the fact the baptism is for a child of Matias and the mother is not listed with Pacheco/a?

I have sometimes seen a father listed as Mathias one time and Matheus another time. So if your ancestor was Mateus, you can't 100% rule out you could find him as Matias, but it will depend on further research.

Do you think this is simply the wrong ancestors and not a sibling of your Joao da Costa?

I assume you know Joam and Joao are the same name.

Doug da Rocha Holmes
Sacramento, California
Pico & Terceira Genealogist
916-550-1618

www.dholmes.com

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Joam da Costa (Might be his birth record
-- can't really read it) Help!

From: Joseph Costa <jwcos...@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, March 22, 2014 10:16 am
To: azo...@googlegroups.com

Thank you Doug. I do see what you mean, and I now think that this does say Niculao, which means that this is not my ancestor. Still can't find my Joam.....

[Joseph Costa]

In addition to not being able to find Joam's birth record, I'm having great difficulty locating the marriage record of Matheus da Costa and Josefa da Pacheca.

Josefa was born in 1714 at Matriz: http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-B-1710-1718/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-B-1710-1718_item1/P70.html


Here is her death record from 1788:

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-O-1780-1806/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-O-1780-1806_item1/P84.html


On Mar 22, 2014, at 3:41 PM, Joseph Costa <jwcos...@gmail.com> wrote:

> SInce I posted this, I have done further research. My ancestor is definitely Matheus da Costa and his wife was definitely Jozefa de Pacheca.
>
> Here is Matheus" birth record from Sep 16, 1705 at Ponta Garca:
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-PONTAGARCA-B-1703-1720/SMG-VF-PONTAGARCA-B-1703-1720_item1/P29.html
>
> Here is his death record from Matriz in 1773:
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-O-1749-1780/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-O-1749-1780_item1/P152.html
>
> Also, here is the birth record of his son Andre (Joam's brother) in 1753:
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-B-1751-1758/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-B-1751-1758_item1/P72.html

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[Joseph Costa]

SInce I posted this, I have done further research. My ancestor is definitely Matheus da Costa and his wife was definitely Jozefa de Pacheca.

Here is Matheus" birth record from Sep 16, 1705 at Ponta Garca:

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-PONTAGARCA-B-1703-1720/SMG-VF-PONTAGARCA-B-1703-1720_item1/P29.html

Here is his death record from Matriz in 1773:

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-O-1749-1780/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-O-1749-1780_item1/P152.html

Also, here is the birth record of his son Andre (Joam's brother) in 1753:

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-B-1751-1758/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-B-1751-1758_item1/P72.html




On Mar 22, 2014, at 3:07 PM, pi...@dholmes.com wrote:

[JR]

Are you looking for the marriage of Mateus and Josefa? If so, according to my records they married circa 1750, in either Ponta Garca or VFSM. I have three children listed for this couple living in Ponta Garca.

JR

[JR]

Maybe I missed something, but how did you determine the parents of Mateus da Costa? Do you have the marriage and notice of the parents?

JR

[Joseph Costa]

I am looking for this marriage, JR. Do you have the link to the record? Are you sure it's not for "Matias" and "Josefa de Canto"? Those are not my ancestors.

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[Joseph Costa]

Here is the marriage record from May 1701 of Matheus' parents, Antonio da Costa and Barbara da Costa: http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-PONTAGARCA-C-1675-1749/SMG-VF-PONTAGARCA-C-1675-1749_item1/P41.html

I got their names from Matheus' birth record in 1705, which I posted previously.

[JR]

I am getting confused. No doubt, this is Matheus son of someone named Costa. However there are others, not to mention that Mateus may fetch his name from a grandparent with the name Costa.

Do I have this right, is your Mateus and Josefa married circa 1750? If so, this Matheus of 1705 is not likely your ancestor. There are about four to six marriages missing in Ponta Garca, all circa 1745-1751, more or less. There is no doubt they are missing because other records specify that these people were married in PG. They include mine and some of Cheri Melo and Shirley A. I think your missing ancestors may be among the missing marriages. On the other hand, I reread the baptism of Andre and notice that Josefa is native of VFSM, so that makes it likely they married in her vila of VFSM. By the way, Canto is name that is hard to come by. There are only a few that I know of. Most turn out to be Couto.

This is what I have. There may be some errors, as they were very difficult to read with a small reader at the LDS. But they can be easily fixed now. Here are children of said couple:

 

Descendants of Matheus da Costa

 

 

Generation No. 1

 

1.  MATHEUS DA¹ COSTA was born Abt. 1725 in Ponta Garca- NS da Piedade, and died Bef. 21 May 1777.  He married JOSEFA PACHECO Abt. 1750.  She was born Abt. 1725 in Ponta Garca- NS da Piedade.

 

More About JOSEFA PACHECO:

Date born 2: Abt. 1725, Vila Franca, Matriz

       

Children of MATHEUS COSTA and JOSEFA PACHECO are:

                   i.    ANTONIA FRANCISCA DOS ANJOS², b. Ponta Garca- NS da Piedade; m. ANDRE DA CAMARA PACHECO, 22 May 1777, Ponta Garca- NS da Piedade; b. Ponta Garca- NS da Piedade; d. Ponta Garca- NS da Piedade.

                  ii.    ANTONIO DA COSTA DE ARAUJO, b. Ponta Garca- NS da Piedade; m. MARGARIDA FRANCISCA, 20 Jun 1779, Vila Franca do Campo- Matriz; b. Vila Franca do Campo- Matriz.

                 iii.    JACINTA DO ESPIRITO SANTO, b. Vila Franca, Matriz; m. JOSE PACHECO CAMILHO, 21 Mar 1776, Vila Franca, Matriz; b. 25 Mar 1738, Ponta Garca- NS da Piedade; d. Ponta Garca- NS da Piedade.

 

More About JOSE PACHECO CAMILHO:

Baptised: 01 Apr 1738, Ponta Garca- NS da Piedade

 

 

[Margaret Vicente]

Hi Joseph and JR,

I am a direct descendent of Antonio Jacome Raposo and Maria Pacheco Moniz through their daughter Antonia Francisca.  JR you helped me with this line.  Thank you.  

This is to say that I have Josefa on my tree and I have her marriage record.  She married Matheus in 1736, same year of my ancestor Antonia Francisca..  Both the bride and groom are using different surnames.  He, Correia and she Rezendes.   It is very bad to read but you will be able to see clearly Josefa Francisca NOTE the surname used is "de Rezende"  "fa de Antonio Jacome Raposo".  Here's the link:

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-PONTAGARCA-C-1675-1749/SMG-VF-PONTAGARCA-C-1675-1749_item1/P138.html

Cheers,

Margaret

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Margaret M Vicente

[JR]

Thanks Margaret!!! I will see if can link these families to my database. As you said, it is clearly on the margin, Matheus Correa com Josepha Fsca de Rezende. It bothered me that they did not appear to marry around 20-30 years old, so they can have children. But as I said, I was quite confused!

JR

[Joseph Costa]

Margaret and JR.  I don’t think that the Matheus and Josefa you document below are my ancestors.     It might help if I invite you to my tree, where I have all of the documentation I found for my line of ancestors.  Are you both on ancestry.com?  I can invite you if you give me your email addresses.

On Sunday, March 23, 2014 1:19:07 PM UTC-4, Mara wrote:

[Joseph Costa]

Margaret and JR:  Here is  Joam da Costa’s marriage record (my 4th great grandfather).  He would be  Antonio da Costa de Araujo’s brother.  Note that both parents (Matheus and Josefa) were dead at the time of this wedding:  http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-C-1763-1812/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-C-1763-1812_item1/P185.html

On Thursday, March 20, 2014 2:45:13 PM UTC-4, Joseph Costa wrote:

[Joseph Costa]

JR.  For the children of Matheus and Josefa, I believe the daughter you have listed as “Jacinta do Espirito Santo” is actually "Anna Jacinta do Espirito Santo”.  I have her in my tree.

[Joseph Costa]

Hi JR. I don't know when my Mateus and Josefa were married. That is the problem. I think you may be correct in that the marriage record is missing, because I have searched all of Ponta Garca and VFSM (knowing that Josefa was born there. I don't believe it is the one that you found.

My Josefa (Josefa da Pacheca or Pachequa) was born in Apr 1714 in VFSM (I have her birth record posted below) and died in May 1788 in VFSM (I have her death record posted below).

My Matheus was born in 1705 in Ponta Garca -- I have his birth record posted below. He died in 1773 in VFSM -- I have have his birth record posted below, which states the name of his parents (Antonio da Costa and Barbara da Costa).

I know that both Matheus and Josefa died before their son Joam (my 4th great grandfather) was married in July 1788. His marriage record to Luzia do Espirito Santo states that both of his parents were deceased at the time.

On Mar 23, 2014, at 12:46 PM, JR <jmr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I am getting confused. No doubt, this is Matheus son of someone named Costa. However there are others, not to mention that Mateus may fetch his name from a grandparent with the name Costa.
>
> Do I have this right, is your Mateus and Josefa married circa 1750? If so, this Matheus of 1705 is not likely your ancestor. There are about four to six marriages missing in Ponta Garca, all circa 1745-1751, more or less. There is no doubt they are missing because other records specify that these people were married in PG. They include mine and some of Cheri Melo and Shirley A. I think your missing ancestors may be among the missing marriages. On the other hand, I reread the baptism of Andre and notice that Josefa is native of VFSM, so that makes it likely they married in her vila of VFSM. By the way, Canto is name that is hard to come by. There are only a few that I know of. Most turn out to be Couto.
>
> This is what I have. There may be some errors, as they were very difficult to read with a small reader at the LDS. But they can be easily fixed now. Here are children of said couple:
>
>
>
> Descendants of Matheus da Costa
>
>
>
>
>
> Generation No. 1
>
>
>

> 1. MATHEUS DA1 COSTA was born Abt. 1725 in Ponta Garca- NS da Piedade, and died Bef. 21 May 1777. He married JOSEFA PACHECOAbt. 1750. She was born Abt. 1725 in Ponta Garca- NS da Piedade.

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[Dano]

Joseph, there is a Nicolao in this family. He descends from Josefa's brother Jose, that makes him her Grand Nephew. As for Joam, perhaps he's there, but we're looking in the wrong place; what date parameters should he be in?

[JR]

Yes, you are quite right, it is Anna Jacinta...

JR

[Margaret Vicente]

Joseph, my ancestry membership is now expired.

I'm not sure I understand your note regarding the marriage record for Joao which reades he was wed on July 7-1783.  The record states his parents were both deceased and so they were.

Matheus died Sep 1st 1773 and Josefa died May 21st, 1788.  

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[Margaret Vicente]

Correction, Joao's marriage date July 7 1788.

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Margaret M Vicente

[Joseph Costa]

He was wed on July 7, 1788 (not 1783). The marriage record states that both of his parents were deceased. That is how I found their death records, which listed their ages at death. That then allowed me to find both of their birth records, his in 1705 (Ponta Garca) and hers in 1714 (Matriz).

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[Joseph Costa]

I just am having great difficulty believing that the marriage record you have for Matheus Correia and Josefa Rezendes is actually my ancestors' marriage record. I still think that their marriage record is lost.

On Mar 23, 2014, at 9:20 PM, Margaret Vicente <margare...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Margaret Vicente]

Understandably so, Joseph.

[JR]

The PG 1736 marriage record does state the father is Antonio Rapozo. As I already said in my private message I also understand. My ancestor Joao da Roia married as Joao da Costa, yet every other record stated his name was Joao da Roia. He never used Costa again. I had a hard time finding him. But his father was clearly Antonio da Roia.

Anyway check this record which lists Matheus da Costa and spouse Josepha Pacheco as godparents living in Ponta Garca. This would be right after they married.

JR

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-PONTAGARCA-B-1719-1739/SMG-VF-PONTAGARCA-B-1719-1739_item1/P199.html

[JR]

The record is for Margarida and it states the godparents are Marcos da Costa son of Antonio da Costa Piquete and Barbara da Costa and Jozepha Pacheca mulher de Matheus da Costa residents of PG. Marcos da Costa was not yet married (1739, PG) but he is the brother of Matheus da Costa. So you can see they are all related to the family of Antonio da Costa Piquete and Barbara da Costa. Hope this helps.

JR

[Joseph Costa]

Ok.  I will take a further look.  If anyone comes across the birth record of Matheus' son, Joam (my 4th great grandfather, and the person I started this thread about), please let me know.  I have been unable to locate it.

[Joseph Costa]

JR,  what program do you use to document your information?  I like how it organizes the information.  Right now, I only use ancestry.com to document my pedigree..

On Sunday, March 23, 2014 12:46:10 PM UTC-4, JR wrote:

[JR]

By the way, I think I may have found another child for Matheus da Costa in PG. And this will really make you scratch your head. This time Matheus uses the name Matheus de Araujo! And all these names are in their immediate ancestry. So I suggest that you start after this record and go forward in PG until you find Joao and/or all the other siblings. You may find as you go that they have settled on the names you know and recognize.

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-PONTAGARCA-B-1719-1739/SMG-VF-PONTAGARCA-B-1719-1739_item1/P201.html

PG baptisms- Jozeph, born March 13, 1737 and baptised March 19, filho de Matheus de Araujo natural desta igreja de NS Piedade e sua mulher Jozepha Francisca de Rezende natural de Matriz de Sao Miguel, Vila Franca. Padrinhos- Manuel Pacheco Camilha homen solteiro e (Freira) Ma Barbara  da Conceicao Religiosa na convento de Santo Andre de Vila Franca

[Dano]

Joseph, perhaps we've been working from the wrong perspective on this problem. Do you have info on Joam that you can share with us? If not, whomever the ancestor that you've traced furthest back w/ most info. Several of us in this group have been researching Ponta Garca & VFdC for a long time - one of us must have the person you're looking for. 

[Dano]

John, I think I've got the family you're referring to. I have Matheus da Costa married to Josefa Francisca Pacheco (only have the year 1736 for their marriage, but we can check back to the original posting for that date); I don't have Matheus' parents, but, Josefa's a "charm," linking back hundreds of years. Her parents were Antonio Jacome Raposo of Nordeste who married Maria Pacheco Moniz in Arcanjo Sao Miguel (VFdC) on 22-Jul-1712. The family links back to Capitao Jorge Correia Barbosa/Maria Vieira de Albernaz, AND, even further back on the Jacome Raposo link to Joao Jacome Raposo/ Francisca Roiz Cordeiro (abt 1525). They may go back further, but, that's as far as I have. What's more, all of the surnames that have been mentioned in this thread are For REAL!!!

On Monday, March 24, 2014 3:00:03 PM UTC-4, JR wrote: 1736

[Dano]

Joseph, I've got better than the Joam you were looking for. What would you say if  I told you that I have your ancestry back to the early 1500's, (and yes there is a "Joam"-  at the beginning). I posted it to JR because he's the one who had it right all along... From the surnames Correia and Rezendes, and Araujo, all the way back to "Joam." Check it out - probably tomorrow

[Cheri Mello]

I think Antonio Jacome Raposo & Maria Pacheca are my ancestors too.  That's getting a little iffy for my dad's DNA.  However, he may have multiple lines with them in it.  I'd have to launch my genealogy program and check.  It would be interesting for a cluster of us to test our oldest relative to see what DNA still exists from this couple.

REMEMBER:  The DNA goes back about 200 years from the testee.  Since my dad was born in the 1930s, I can expect to see some matches back to the 1730s.  I've found a couple of matches back that far with my dad's DNA and one from an ancestor born in 1696.  I think that's a sticky segment and why my dad has it and gave it to me.  A sticky segment is a block of DNA that flipped around backwards and got stuck.  It won't split or recombine.  It gets passed down in tact or it doesn't get passed down at all. (Think of jamming together 2 puzzle pieces incorrectly).

Next KNOWN DNA sale:  Sizzling Summer Sale in June or July.

Next POSSIBLE DNA sale:  DNA Day.  This year, DNA Day is April 25th.  The last 2 years, FTDNA had a DNA Day sale.  It was a short sale, like 48 hours or over the weekend.  I DON'T anticipate them putting Family Finder on sale, but they may offer the $100 gift card to Restaurant.com (works only in America).  Family Finder costs $99.  So it kinda makes it free, if your favorite non-chain, small or family owned restaurant is a Restaurant.com participant.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

[Shirley Allegre]

I have a JOSEFA (Antonio Jacome Raposo of Nordeste X Maria Pacheco Moniz in SMA-VFDC)  She was born on 22 Apr 1714, in SM-VFDC.

I have this family way back in time. 

If Josepha married in 1736, does anyone know where?  I don't have any other on her.

 

Shirley in CA

----- Original Message -----

From: Dano

To: azo...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Monday, March 24, 2014 4:23 PM

Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Joam da Costa (Might be his birth record -- can't really read it) Help!

[Hermano C. Pires]

Shirley
 
Does the link below help in any way?
Hermano
 
http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/GENEALOGIAS-CARLOSMACHADO/GENEALOGIAS-CARLOSMACHADO_item1/P79.html
 

---

From: shi...@digitalpath.net
To: azo...@googlegroups.com
CC: familytre...@gmail.com

Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Joam da Costa (Might be his birth record -- can't really read it) Help!

Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 09:29:24 -0700

[Joseph Costa]

Hi. I actually found him this afternoon: http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-B-1743-1750/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-B-1743-1750_item1/P139.htmlz

Thank you for your offer to help!

[Joseph Costa]

Shirley: I would love to see all of the information that you say you have on the Antonio Jacome Rapiso family going way back in time. As far as Matheus and Josefa are concerned, I have all of their information already. I have figured that out with others in this group over the past few days. Today: I also found their son, my fourth great-grandfather, Joam born on June 16, 1748 in VFSM. He is who I originally started this thread about.

[Joseph Costa]

Cheri: I submitted my DNA sample, and they are now in receipt of it. I am having them do Family Finder, Y-DNA37, and mt-DNA Plus. It will be fun to see if we are all interconnected.

[Shirley Allegre]

Joe: I had printed out the ancestry of JOSEFA. It is nine (9) pages long.
If you will send me your snail mail address, I will send it to you.
I did a RELATIONSHIP SEARCH for Antonio Jacome Raposo and Cheri Mello, my
PAF program says that they are 3rd cousins, 9 times removed.
Their common ancestors are: Bras Lopes X Rimigia da Sentra.
I don't have any info on Matheus X Josefa. I still need their DOM and
where.
At least I can find the DOB for your grgrandfather Joam on 16 June 1748in
SM-VFDC.

Shirley in CA

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Costa" <jwcos...@gmail.com>
To: <azo...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Joam da Costa (Might be his birth record --
can't really read it) Help!

Shirley: I would love to see all of the information that you say you have on

the Antonio Jacome Raposo family going way back in time. As far as Matheus

and Josefa are concerned, I have all of their information already. I have
figured that out with others in this group over the past few days. Today: I
also found their son, my fourth great-grandfather, Joam born on June 16,
1748 in VFSM. He is who I originally started this thread about.

[Shirley Allegre]

I tried to open that file, but I got the following message:
404 File or directory not found.

Shirley in CA

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Costa" <jwcos...@gmail.com>
To: <azo...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Joam da Costa (Might be his birth record --
can't really read it) Help!

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Azores Genealogy" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an

[Joseph Costa]

Thanks Shirley. I emailed you my mailing address. I appreciate this!

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[Dano]

Joseph, I'm happy that we could provide you with at least one branch of your family tree (Jacome Raposo dating back to circa 1525). Antonio Jacome Raposo is Josefa's father, and, from there the puzzle was complete. I was in the process of printing the report when I happened to see that Shirley had already done so. It took a little while but we eventually all got on the same page (thanks to Margaret). 

BTW, I also found Matheus' and Josefa's marriage - 19-Jul-1736 (PG) + the first four of the couple's children, also from PG - Jozeph -1737, Anna -1739, Anna-1742, Antonia-1746 and, of course, the nearly unreadable Nicolau (in 1751). Unfortunately, Joam wasn't among them in Ponta Garca. I will try Arcanjo Sao Miguel next.

[Joseph Costa]

Dano:  Yes, this is very exciting.  I can't wait to see the packet that Shirley is going to mail me.  I truly appreciate everyone's help!

I actually found Joam yesterday.  Sorry, I think that it keeps getting lost in this thread.  Here is his birth record from Matriz,  Jul 16, 1748:  http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-B-1743-1750/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-B-1743-1750_item1/P139.html

[Joseph Costa]

Dano:  Also, regarding the children of Matheus and Jozefa, I do not have have some of the children that you mention.  Could you post a listing of all of them and their full dates of birth/location of birth? 

[Joseph Costa]

And I think we determined that Nicolau does not belong to Matheus and Jozefa.  The father of Nicolau is "Matias", not "Matheus", and the mother is another Jozefa.  I believe that in the thread above, you said that the Nicolau descends from another family member.

[Dano]

Actually, you shouldn't discount the 1751 record, Joseph. Not only does it mention Matheus da Costa & Josefa Pacheco, several of the experts that posted to this thread agreed that the child's name was most likely Nicolau; the birth also falls into the birth cycle of this couple (every 2 to 3 years); and, there is a Nicolau a couple of generations later, by one of the descendants of this same couple. Therefore, there are several reasons to accept the premise that the birth record was that of that person. Now, there is a way to disprove the theory - plenty of time has elapsed since his birth, just look for his marriage, or, death record :) 

Second: I'm still trying to find Joam - his marriage record didn't add any additional clues - other than he was, indeed, the son of Matheus and Josefa. Another problem is that we're running out of time for birthing w/ this couple (20 yrs), there's only about 4 more yrs. Joam was definitely born in Vila Franca, and, although, the marriage record says that he was native to Arcanjo Sao Miguel, some of Josefa's family were members of Sao Pedro - that may indicate that Mateus and Josefa may have lived in that part of VFdC for a time. What with the name variations, and, the different residences, there was a lot going on w/ this couple...

Part III: Regarding the new data on the earlier chidren, I'm in the process of transitioning to a new computer system, and, some of my "old workhorse" software isn't recognized with the new stuff. Normally, I would just send a gedcom to a email address, However, that would require that there is a Genealogy Program that can accept that data. If you have a genealogy software program that accepts that gedcom, most do), I can send you a gedcom via email. Sorry for length of this posting.

[Shirley Allegre]

Joe:  I will put the info into the mail today.

[Dano]

Well, I hope that it turns out to be all that you need. If you need more, I may have some data that Shirley may not. I just have to figure out how to get it to you :) JR, Shirley and many others helped me out along the way, so many of us have similar data, however, we have all progressed from those early days of floppy discs and computer crashes, and, have acquired more data on our own. So it will be with you, and you can help out another person that's starting out. 

On Wednesday, March 26, 2014 7:40:10 AM UTC-4, Joseph Costa wrote:

[Altino Demelo]

Shirley, you just have an extra "Z" at the tail end of the URL.

If you remove it the URL should work.

Sent from my iPad

[Joseph Costa]

HI.  I’ve posted this a few times already, but I think it keeps getting lost in the thread:  I found Joam!   http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-B-1743-1750/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-B-1743-1750_item1/P139.html