What surname is this?

143 views
Skip to first unread message

Andrew Rapoza

unread,
Mar 15, 2015, 12:24:22 AM3/15/15
to azo...@googlegroups.com

Hi everyone. I thought I was pretty good at deciphering old Azorean handwriting and knowing Portuguese surnames, but this has me stumped. The same surname for the same person in two documents 24 years apart, written by two different scribes, but I just can't decipher what the surname is. Can someone help me figure this out?? Thanks so much --Andy Rapoza

Surname decipher.docx

Cheri Mello

unread,
Mar 15, 2015, 12:26:01 AM3/15/15
to azo...@googlegroups.com

It won't open for me. Can you send the links to the documents so everyone can see it?
Cheri

Aaron Pereira

unread,
Mar 15, 2015, 12:55:31 AM3/15/15
to azo...@googlegroups.com
I read Ricico...I don't know if that's a surname, or what it means.

One spelling looks like Recico, and the other looks like Ricico.

I'm positive another lister will enlighten us. If you don't get any more replies, and you confirm the name, please post it here for reference. Thanks.

MaryAnn Santos

unread,
Mar 15, 2015, 9:55:08 AM3/15/15
to azo...@googlegroups.com
It sometimes helps to have the entire record to compare wow certain letters are written. You might want to send both.



On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 9:47 PM, Andrew Rapoza <rapoz...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi everyone. I thought I was pretty good at deciphering old Azorean handwriting and knowing Portuguese surnames, but this has me stumped. The same surname for the same person in two documents 24 years apart, written by two different scribes, but I just can't decipher what the surname is. Can someone help me figure this out?? Thanks so much --Andy Rapoza

--
For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.



--
MaryAnn Santos
Senior Advisement and Student Affairs Administrator
Department of Art and Art Professions
NYU/Steinhardt

Follow us at 
Twitter / @NYUart
Instagram / @nyuart
Facebook / NYU Art Department

Isabella Baltar

unread,
Mar 15, 2015, 11:02:09 AM3/15/15
to azo...@googlegroups.com
It is difficult to one transcribe, or decipher like you said, not seeing the person's handwriting pattern, so I suggest making available the link for that record. Paleography is about comparing and analyzing one's handwriting and the context of the time.

Anyway, a few years ago I transcribed a document for Graciosa island and it took me sometime to figure out it. It looks like your word, but I can't precise it and can be wrong. The word I mentioned is Rixelo. You need to post the link for your document.

Isabella Baltar

Andrew Rapoza

unread,
Mar 15, 2015, 10:39:01 PM3/15/15
to azo...@googlegroups.com
I forget that in this era I can send links to these records. Wow, what a miraculous age we live in! Here they are. 

The surname in question on the left page shows up on the 10th line up from the bottom of the entry text.


The same surname in question on the left page shows up on the 10th line up from the bottom of the entry text.


Thanks again for everyone's help. I suspect, by the way, that they are Pexico, perhaps an ancient spelling of Pacheco? Thanks again. 

--Andy Rapoza

Mary Bordi

unread,
Mar 15, 2015, 11:28:57 PM3/15/15
to azo...@googlegroups.com
Is it possible that the first letter is "P" instead of "R"? I still don't know what name it would be, though.

Mary
--

MaryAnn Santos

unread,
Mar 16, 2015, 8:08:38 AM3/16/15
to azo...@googlegroups.com
Hi Andrew, 

It certainly is a tricky one. I don't think it's an "R" because the down stroke are pretty evident and consistent in the document. It could be a "P" and my first thought was Peixoto but there don't seem to be enough letters in the work and the "t" - if it is a "t" - isn't crossed. 

Sorry I can't be of more help.

By the way, if you're related to José Eusebio Raposo (sapteiro) who married Maria Leite Barbosa 22 July 1897 Divino Espirito Santo, Maia we're related. Maria was my grandmother, Ermelinda Leite Barbosa's older sister.

MaryAnn

--
For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.

Margaret Vicente

unread,
Mar 16, 2015, 8:31:13 AM3/16/15
to azores
Andrew,

on the 2nd link it is visible to me "Ricaço"

Watch for the "," underneath the last c.

Margaret 

Margaret M Vicente

MaryAnn Santos

unread,
Mar 16, 2015, 8:39:47 AM3/16/15
to azo...@googlegroups.com
Margaret, you are amazing!

Eliseu Pacheco

unread,
Mar 16, 2015, 12:53:36 PM3/16/15
to azo...@googlegroups.com
The word is PACHECO (Paxeco). 😀

Eliseu Pacheco da Silva

MaryAnn Santos

unread,
Mar 16, 2015, 1:02:08 PM3/16/15
to azo...@googlegroups.com
I thought there was an "x" in the word.

On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 12:53 PM, Eliseu Pacheco <eliseu...@gmail.com> wrote:
The word is PACHECO (Paxeco). 😀

Eliseu Pacheco da Silva

Isabella Baltar

unread,
Mar 16, 2015, 2:22:34 PM3/16/15
to azo...@googlegroups.com
I agree with Eliseu, after seeing the original document, it is Pexeco, the old way of Pacheco.

Isabella Baltar
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/azores/h601pQMnVEE/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com.


--

PORTUGAL AND AZORES: 

TERCEIRA: Ferreira Drummond, Valadão, Velho, Jacques, Vieira

SPAIN: Casasola Palermo, Peres Dias, Zurita Vilche, Jimenez Peres

BRAZIL:

PARAÍBA / PERNAMBUCO: Balthar/Rego Barros/Teixeira de Vasconcellos/Xavier Monteiro da Franca

CEARÁ: Barretto/Paschoa Loreto/Mello/Cavalcante

RIO DE JANEIRO:  Casasola Perez, Zurita Vilche


emoji_u1f600.png

Margaret Vicente

unread,
Mar 16, 2015, 2:45:40 PM3/16/15
to azores
Not disagreeing, but if that is Pexeco? "old" writing and paleography being the study of writing, then how does one explain a) the accents above and below the letters and b) why 3 lines above the priest wrote "Pachequo" i.e. Padre Jose Ignacio de Sousa Pachequo.  (2nd link) Also first link go back one record same priest writes two forms of Pachequo and Pacheco.

Cheers,
Margaret Vicente
emoji_u1f600.png

bsei...@gmail.com

unread,
Mar 16, 2015, 3:38:53 PM3/16/15
to azo...@googlegroups.com
Could it be Picanço (Picãço)

I don't think it starts with an R because it is quite different from the consistent Rs in each instance of "Rapoza".  It looks more like the P in Padre and in Pachequo.  I also do not think it is "Pexeco" because of the two accent marks that Margaret points out, and because the "x" is very clear in the name Teixeira on the eighth line from the bottom in the second record and does not resemble anything in the name in question.

To me it looks like "Picaço" which is the name Picanço missing an "n".  Could it be that the second accent mark Margaret points out makes it "Picãço", possibly an older spelling of Picanço in the same way that the word tampa used to be spelled tãpa?

Bill Seidler
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
--
MaryAnn Santos
Senior Advisement and Student Affairs Administrator
Department of Art and Art Professions
NYU/Steinhardt

Follow us at 
Twitter / @NYUart
Instagram / @nyuart
Facebook / NYU Art Department

--
For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.



--
Margaret M Vicente

--
For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

--
For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.



--
MaryAnn Santos
Senior Advisement and Student Affairs Administrator
Department of Art and Art Professions
NYU/Steinhardt

Follow us at 
Twitter / @NYUart
Instagram / @nyuart
Facebook / NYU Art Department

--
For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/azores/h601pQMnVEE/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to azores+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.


--

PORTUGAL AND AZORES: 

TERCEIRA: Ferreira Drummond, Valadão, Velho, Jacques, Vieira

SPAIN: Casasola Palermo, Peres Dias, Zurita Vilche, Jimenez Peres

BRAZIL:

PARAÍBA / PERNAMBUCO: Balthar/Rego Barros/Teixeira de Vasconcellos/Xavier Monteiro da Franca

CEARÁ: Barretto/Paschoa Loreto/Mello/Cavalcante

RIO DE JANEIRO:  Casasola Perez, Zurita Vilche


--
For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.



--
Margaret M Vicente

Eliseu Pacheco da Silva

unread,
Mar 16, 2015, 5:39:00 PM3/16/15
to azo...@googlegroups.com

Margaret J You got a point there!

I looked at Rodrigo Rodrigues and it is said there that the name is PERICO (I keep thinking it could be Paxeco… COSTA PACHECO is a combination from Lomba da Cruz, Nordeste…) António Raposo was 3rd cousin with his wife.

 

Eliseu J

image001.png

JR

unread,
Mar 16, 2015, 9:25:18 PM3/16/15
to azo...@googlegroups.com
This discussion is animated and interesting to say the least, but wait until you see name of the father of Andre Raposo. He is Manuel da Costa Pico, who comes from Faial da Terra. I sent Andrew the links. I think the name has been altered through time. There is also a Piloto or Picoto in Nordeste form a Rodrigues line. and the Pico is clearly Pico, but perhaps it was truncated.


JR

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.



 

--

MaryAnn Santos

Senior Advisement and Student Affairs Administrator

Department of Art and Art Professions

NYU/Steinhardt

 

Follow us at 

Twitter / @NYUart
Instagram / @nyuart
Facebook / NYU Art Department

--
For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.



 

--

Margaret M Vicente

--
For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

--
For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.



 

--

MaryAnn Santos

Senior Advisement and Student Affairs Administrator

Department of Art and Art Professions

NYU/Steinhardt

 

Follow us at 

Twitter / @NYUart
Instagram / @nyuart
Facebook / NYU Art Department

--
For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
---

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/azores/h601pQMnVEE/unsubscribe.

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to azores+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.



--

 

PORTUGAL AND AZORES: 

TERCEIRA: Ferreira Drummond, Valadão, Velho, Jacques, Vieira

SPAIN: Casasola Palermo, Peres Dias, Zurita Vilche, Jimenez Peres

BRAZIL:

PARAÍBA / PERNAMBUCO: Balthar/Rego Barros/Teixeira de Vasconcellos/Xavier Monteiro da Franca

CEARÁ: Barretto/Paschoa Loreto/Mello/Cavalcante

RIO DE JANEIRO:  Casasola Perez, Zurita Vilche

 

 

--
For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.



 

--

Margaret M Vicente

Margaret Vicente

unread,
Mar 16, 2015, 9:33:01 PM3/16/15
to azores
Eliseu, that's it "Perico".  Andy now has the right answer.

Thanks,
Margaret Vicente

Isabella Baltar

unread,
Mar 17, 2015, 12:41:59 AM3/17/15
to azo...@googlegroups.com
If anyone goes to Family Search they will find Pexeco in Brazil for the 1700's, we actually have lots of Pacheco now. So that explains the "old" writing I mentioned. We also need to take in consideration other venues for the same name, like I have in my family with Drummond, Armond and Ormond, even in the same record! I don't believe they are "accents", for me it can be a comma the priest used after the name of the father, he has done that in other records. I did not had time to research and I think the best way to find out is to go back and search for earlier records on Manoel da Costa [Pexeco] and try to see another manuscript reference. It maybe something completely different! Picanço is a more modern name, said by Leite Vasconcelos on his Antroponímia Portuguesa. Paleography is not an exact science, lots of information needs to be considered for a final veredict, if ever.

Best,
Isabella Baltar
emoji_u1f600.png

MaryAnn Santos

unread,
Mar 17, 2015, 6:46:04 AM3/17/15
to azo...@googlegroups.com
I think Perico is right - look at the "r" in maria just under the surname in question. I originally thought it was an "x".

Inline image 1

Andrew Rapoza

unread,
Mar 17, 2015, 6:59:59 PM3/17/15
to azo...@googlegroups.com
I so sincerely appreciate everybody's efforts and interest; it has been amazing. I am convinced that it is Perico for all the reasons that have been pointed out relative to that name. I hope I can return the favor to some of you. Best wishes --Andy 

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.



 

--

MaryAnn Santos

Senior Advisement and Student Affairs Administrator

Department of Art and Art Professions

NYU/Steinhardt

 

Follow us at 

Twitter / @NYUart
Instagram / @nyuart
Facebook / NYU Art Department

--
For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.



 

--

Margaret M Vicente

--
For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

--
For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.



 

--

MaryAnn Santos

Senior Advisement and Student Affairs Administrator

Department of Art and Art Professions

NYU/Steinhardt

 

Follow us at 

Twitter / @NYUart
Instagram / @nyuart
Facebook / NYU Art Department

--
For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
---

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/azores/h601pQMnVEE/unsubscribe.

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to azores+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.



 

--

Margaret M Vicente




--
Margaret M Vicente

Hermano C. Pires

unread,
Mar 19, 2015, 2:29:40 PM3/19/15
to azo...@googlegroups.com
At the risk of ruffling some feathers. Here is my two cents worth: I can't make out precisely what the surname is but It can't be Pacheco because 3 lines above where it is there is the name of the cura Jose Ignacio de Souza Pacheco and it bears no resemblance to it.
Hermano


From: ma...@nyu.edu
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 13:01:41 -0400
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] What surname is this?
To: azo...@googlegroups.com
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages