The H1N1 "National Emergency"
guardian Snow
of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of the
United States, including sections 201 and 301 of the National
Emergencies Act … do hereby find and proclaim that, given that the
rapid increase in illness across the nation may overburden health care
resources and that the temporary waiver of certain standard federal
requirements may be warranted in order to enable U.S. health care
facilities to implement emergency operations plans, the 2009 H1N1
influenza pandemic in the United States constitutes a national
emergency.”
Pro 10:24 What the wrong one fears comes upon him, But the desire of
the righteous is granted.
Do you believe there is a “national emergency”? The declaration of
President Obama says that because the Flu “may overburden health
care”, he is taking “proactive” steps in creating hysteria over what
WAS nothing more than a regular flu season running its course. I say
specifically “was” in that now that it has been suggested that a state
of emergency is present, one will exist because of the power of
suggestion.
While the motivations of the health scare may be to further his
political agenda of pushing socialized health care, Pandora is let out
of the box and those who look to Obama as an authority will believe
and not be convinced otherwise that the significance of H1N1’s impact
is so insignificant that the vaccine and the declaration by Obama will
do more damage than the actual virus.
While the immediate issues of the declaration only relate to privacy
and issuing government payouts, the hysteria created by a “national
emergency” should be of greater concern. To that extent, the VeriChip
Corporation is working to provide a under skin implant “to aid” in the
detection of different strains of viruses.
Personally, I have zero concern for this supposed pandemic but this is
because I know and trust scriptures that read:
Exo 15:26 And He said, “If you diligently obey the voice of YAHWEH
your Elohim and do what is right in His eyes, and shall listen to His
commands and shall guard all His laws, I shall bring on you none of
the diseases I brought on the Mitsrites, for I am YAHWEH who heals
you.”
In short, I have nothing to fear but fear itself and you should go
forward in that same knowledge. I further have to wonder about the
people employed by Verichip and their eagerness to capitalize on the
imagined problem and would point out that the potential health
problems increase by having foreign to the body implants.
The “solutions” are in fact the very elements creating more problems.
President Obama has demonstrated to me that he is willfully
destructive and I say this because he is creating an “emergency”
because of what “may” happen.
The reality is that he could have implemented these relatively minor
changes of law through normal congressional channels without out the
hype, so the objective of this declaration isn’t to change the law, it
is to change perception by creating FEAR, don’t buy into it.
Num 6:24 “Yahweh bless you and guard you;
Num 6:25 Yahweh make His face shine upon you, and show favour to you;
Num 6:26 Yahweh lift up His face upon you, and give you peace.” ’
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
“Money is regarded as the cause of theft and murder, of deception and
betrayal. Money is blamed when the prostitute sells her body and when
the bribed judge perverts the law. It is money against which the
moralist declaims when he wishes to oppose excessive materialism.”
Ludwig von Mises
Monetary Economics
http://mises.org/multimedia/mp3/ss08/16_Gold08_Salin.mp3
How Abolishing the Fed Would Change Everything (for the better)
“The conflict view asserts that only one strain of doctrine can assume
the commanding heights, and so all the progress of groups lower on the
faith chain depends on unseating others from power. Secular groups can
hold this view, believing that religion must be vanquished from the
earth, and so too with religious groups that believe secularism must
be destroyed.
This is why we hear about "breaking barriers" rather than encouraging
opportunity, about policies rather than freedom, about power rather
than entrepreneurship. For the media writing about all this, it is the
only intellectual model they have in mind. The conflict view of
society was taught to them in college and is reinforced daily in the
press. Also, unless you have some clear filter in mind, it seems like
the conflict view is supported by plenty of evidence, given that the
rise of the state has actually generated social antagonism where none
should exist.”
Llewellyn H. Rockwell
Emma
guardian Snow says...
>
>Barack Obama, President of the United States of America, by virtue
>of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of the
>United States, including sections 201 and 301 of the National
>Emergencies Act do hereby find and proclaim that, given that the
>rapid increase in illness across the nation may overburden health care
>resources and that the temporary waiver of certain standard federal
>requirements may be warranted in order to enable U.S. health care
>facilities to implement emergency operations plans, the 2009 H1N1
>influenza pandemic in the United States constitutes a national
>emergency.
>
>Pro 10:24 What the wrong one fears comes upon him, But the desire of
>the righteous is granted.
>
>President Obama says that because the Flu may overburden health
>WAS nothing more than a regular flu season running its course. I say
>specifically was in that now that it has been suggested that a state
>of emergency is present, one will exist because of the power of
>suggestion.
>
>While the motivations of the health scare may be to further his
>political agenda of pushing socialized health care, Pandora is let out
>of the box and those who look to Obama as an authority will believe
>is so insignificant that the vaccine and the declaration by Obama will
>do more damage than the actual virus.
>
>While the immediate issues of the declaration only relate to privacy
>and issuing government payouts, the hysteria created by a national
>emergency should be of greater concern. To that extent, the VeriChip
>Corporation is working to provide a under skin implant to aid in the
>detection of different strains of viruses.
>
>Personally, I have zero concern for this supposed pandemic but this is
>because I know and trust scriptures that read:
>
> Exo 15:26 And He said, If you diligently obey the voice of YAHWEH
>your Elohim and do what is right in His eyes, and shall listen to His
>commands and shall guard all His laws, I shall bring on you none of
>the diseases I brought on the Mitsrites, for I am YAHWEH who heals
>you.
That passage relates to another people in another time.
Plenty of good and pious people died in previous pandemics, btw.
Christians don't have any guarantees of good health.
Anyway, what does your President's speech mean? Are you
all being offered vaccines?
I'm very worried about swine flu because they say it
could mutate into something serious. I'll definitely
have the vaccine when it becomes available. At the moment
the UK government is only vaccinating vulnerable groups.
The rest of us will get the vaccine later on though.
It's a very wise precaution IMO.
--
..EMMA..
http://www.britsattheirbest.com/
http://www.cfoi.co.uk/
guardian Snow
> > Exo 15:26 And He said, If you diligently obey the voice of YAHWEH
> >your Elohim and do what is right in His eyes, and shall listen to His
> >commands and shall guard all His laws, I shall bring on you none of
> >the diseases I brought on the Mitsrites, for I am YAHWEH who heals
> >you.
>
> That passage relates to another people in another time.
> Plenty of good and pious people died in previous pandemics, btw.
> Christians don't have any guarantees of good health.
>
> Anyway, what does your President's speech mean? Are you
> all being offered vaccines?
>
> I'm very worried about swine flu because they say it
> could mutate into something serious. I'll definitely
> have the vaccine when it becomes available. At the moment
> the UK government is only vaccinating vulnerable groups.
> The rest of us will get the vaccine later on though.
> It's a very wise precaution IMO.
I respect what you believe Emma but answer a few questions for me..
Do you not believe that your deity can and will heal you?
Do you have faith in your deity?
Do you think your deity wishes to punish you with sickness?
Mat 4:23 And Yehoshua went about all Galilee [of the gentiles],
teaching in their congregations, and preaching the gospel of the
kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease
among the people.
Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the
works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall
he do; because I go unto my Father.
Is it really for another people and another time, Oh ye of little
faith? Be strong my friend and find the blessings that are yours, you
have access to them now if you believe.
Psa 23:1 Yahweh is my shepherd; I do not lack.
Psa 23:2 He makes me to lie down in green pastures; He leads me beside
still waters.
Psa 23:3 He turns back1 my being; He leads me in paths of
righteousness For His Name’s sake. Footnote: 1Or He converts.
Psa 23:4 When I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear
no evil. For You are with me; Your rod and Your staff, they comfort
me.
Psa 23:5 You spread before me a table in the face of my enemies; You
have anointed my head with oil; My cup runs over.
Psa 23:6 Only goodness and kindness follow me All the days of my life;
And I shall dwell in the House of Yahweh, To the length of days!
I hope you will take some time to make your own ministry of strength
post and share it with me.
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
Respond directly:
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/messianic_Yehoshua/
Many a man's strength is in opposition, and when he faileth, he grows
out of use.
Francis Bacon
Evil is the moment when I lack the strength to be true to the Good
that compels me.
Alain Badiou
An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation,
nor does truth become error because nobody sees it.
Mohandas Gandhi
http://www.e-sword.net/ Free bible software
http://www.isr-messianic.org/ <- download the scriptures free
or
http://messianicyehoshua.googlegroups.com/web/RNKJV_W.zip <--free
download of the Restored Names King James Version
Rod
Emma, the swine flu is dangerous without need for mutation. I've had
it several years ago and was hospitalized with a fever of 104, and
remained there for 17 days before being released. By all means have the
shot.
Rod
guardian Snow
> >> Pro 10:24 What the wrong one fears comes upon him, But the desire of
> >> the righteous is granted.
> > I'm very worried about swine flu because they say it
> > could mutate into something serious.
>
> Emma, the swine flu is dangerous without need for mutation. I've had
> it several years ago and was hospitalized with a fever of 104, and
> remained there for 17 days before being released. By all means have the
> shot.
>
> Rod
It is good to be able to agree to disagree but then let us not
discount the PLACEBO effect of an inoculation. The power of belief is
demonstrated in Proverbs 10:24. Your fears shall come on upon you,
let your only fear be of YAHWEH and then... you will be like those who
understand the POWER OF BELIEF.
Buddha said, “He is able who thinks he is able. All that we are is
the result of what we have thought. If a man speaks or acts with an
evil thought, pain follows him. If a man speaks or acts with a pure
thought, happiness follows him, like a shadow that never leaves him.
All wrong-doing arises because of mind. If mind is transformed can
wrong-doing remain?”
The POWER of Belief is unchanging and awesome. Change your beliefs
and you can change your life. You are the product of your beliefs.
Rev 14:12 Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those
guarding the commands of Elohim AND the belief of Yehoshua.
Modern science can’t explain it away except to call it the, “Placebo
effect”. Pills, potions and even false surgeries have been conducted
to study the power of belief. Endorphins begin the healing effects
on those who simply believe, that is science fact. All that is needed
or required is already with you and that power resides in your belief.
Gen 15:6 And he believed in Yahweh, and He reckoned it to him for
righteousness.
Do not doubt that because people believed, they were healed according
to several New Testament passages and this belief is the work of the
SPIRIT of Yahweh according to the law of manifestation.
Deu 11:18 ‘And you shall lay up these Words of Mine in your heart and
in your being, and shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they
shall be as frontlets between your eyes.
Belief is power and in this power we must believe in order to manifest
the spirit that is within us all. Belief is a work that we must
consciously exercise at all times keeping the word always on our mind,
a positive healing and loving word.
Jas 2:17 So also belief, if it does not have works, is in itself dead.
Our works are the fruit of our belief and if you have no works of
faith, your belief will die on the vine. Belief then is a work and
must be steadily fixated upon in the present moment.
Psa 78:22 Because they did not believe in Elohim, Neither did they
trust in His deliverance.
Learning to trust in the deliverance of Yahweh is the final step that
is the fruit of our labors in the truth. I am careful to speak
primarily of works because we cannot behave as demons and expect or
assume that we shall be forgiven. Belief and works of law are
conjoined in spirit to flesh manifestation and we must be without
conflict in our understanding:
Jas 1:6 But he should ask in belief, not doubting, for he who doubts
is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind.
Jas 1:7 For that man should not think that he shall receive whatever
from the Master –
Jas 1:8 he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.
Do not be unstable in your belief, when you know that your works are
righteousness in the now, do not be afraid to manifest the spirit that
is within you and seek his will without doubts because only then can
we hope to be like our teacher, Yehoshua the Messiah of Yahweh.
Mat 9:22 But Yehoshua turned, and when He saw her He said, “Take
courage, daughter, your belief has healed you.” And the woman was
healed from that hour.
You get what you think about and what you believe, you manifest. How
often have I spoken of works and those who are lost in dogma think
that I have no understanding of belief and yet, if we truly take in
the true counsel, we understand that we must believe NOW, this moment,
the only moment that will ever be, we have been made whole again and
never again return to the old outmoded dogmatic way of thinking that
is unforgiveness of ourselves.
The Messiah didn’t just heal based on works, he healed many times
based simply on the belief of those he spoke with and so when we speak
of works it should be that we keep the law of manifestation of the
spirit.
Joh 9:1 And passing by, He saw a man, blind from birth.
Joh 9:2 And His taught ones asked Him, saying, “Rabbi, who sinned,
this man or his parents, that he should be born blind?”
Joh 9:3 Yehoshua answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned,
but that the works of Elohim might be made manifest in him.
How many today are born blind that you too can manifest the works of
Elohim on earth? Do you not believe in the spirit that heals? Of
course you do or you wouldn’t have taken the time to consider this
teaching that you too are to manifest the spirit of healing.
Joh 14:21 “He who possesses My commands and guards them, it is he who
loves Me. And he who loves Me shall be loved by My Father, and I shall
love him and manifest Myself to him.”
That Yehoshua has manifested the spirit, that is Yahweh, is something
lost to those who strive in only dogma and live in perpetual
unforgiveness because they have not learned to forgive first, without
expectation for that in itself negates the present, the NOW.
Mat 6:12 ‘And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
I urge you now that if you have not forgiven somebody, do so now that
you might receive forgiveness. We do not receive healing by demanding
that other people apologize, we simply forgive them.
Jas 3:13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by his
good behavior his works in meekness of wisdom.
The now is all that there is. One of the great commands of
scriptures:
Mar 12:31 “And the second, like it, is this, ‘You shall love your
neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other command greater than these.”
Many people fail to recognize that you must LOVE YOURSELF. How can
you love your neighbor and hate yourself? A lot of my Christian
brothers must really loath themselves by the display of “love” that I
see being projected many times and this speaks to the disconnection
that they have with YAHWEH.
“The story of the human race is the story of men and women selling
themselves short.”
Abraham Maslow
Maslow sold himself short as so many of us have done and continue to
do. The scriptures teach that you have being granted the power of
creation:
Pro 18:21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue, And those
loving it eat its fruit.
Stop eating the fruits of death and start believing in the power of
the tongue with conscious focus on the present moment:
Deu 30:19 “I have called the heavens and the earth as witnesses today
against you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and
the curse. Therefore you shall *choose life*, so that you live, both
you and your seed,
Life is a choice that comes from your belief. You are healed and have
already been forgiven of sin and if you are forgiven, you are
righteous, so continue in that righteousness by holding firm to the
word.
Mat 22:39 “And the second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor
AND yourself.’
You’ll notice that I changed it to “and yourself” for how can you love
another unless you love yourself first? If your own life is in
shambles, how can you help another? You are created in the image of
the almighty, to love yourself first is to love that spirit planted in
you.
Isn’t it interested in arguing over petty dogmas, so many forgot to
love themselves first and I thought this would be a good time to
remind all of you:
YOU created in the very image of Elohim, You are a treasured
possession and you need to stop beating yourselves up, it serves
nothing good to go around in apathetic disconnection.
“Conflict cannot survive without your participation.”
Wayne Dyer
Having been created in the image of the Father, you have all that you
need to manifest the spirit and put into practice your true being.
Barak Obama had it right when he said, “Yes, We Can” and this is one
of the few things I agree with him about, a positive affirmation is
one that goes a long way.
Joh 3:34 “For He whom Elohim has sent speaks the Words of Elohim, for
Elohim does not give the Spirit by measure.
Perfection resides in you and when you do the will of Yahweh, which is
perfect, the spirit will assist you in all your endeavors. So many
people, especially Christians beat each other up mentally and walk
away thinking they are unscathed.
Life is in the spirit… such an important scriptural understanding. In
our service to other people, we should never forget that our beliefs
are important if and when they connect with the spirit of truth.
Joh 6:63 “It is the Spirit that gives life, the flesh does not profit
at all. The words that I speak to you are Spirit and are life.”
Understanding spirit is in this moment and no other. To want is to
say that you lack.
Psa 23:1 Yahweh is my shepherd; I do not lack.
Understanding spirit has already provided all that you need is the
great realization that says, instead of asking for your daily bread,
give thanks that you have already received and know that Yahweh has
already provided.
One of the great hindrances to spiritual growth is that we spend our
time always in expectation and yet, will our heavenly Father not
provide for you? Is it that hard to understand that all that you
need is already being delivered to you already? Everything that you
need already exist and Yahweh is just waiting for you to be ready to
receive. Allow me to break this down…
Mat 7:7 “Ask and it shall be given to you,
“Shall be given” .. In other words, you do not have it now and you
lack. So why should you ask if you do not lack? Instead given thanks
knowing that all that you need is already yours.
seek and you shall find,
“Shall find”, in other words, it remains in the future and you do not
have.
knock and it shall be opened to you.
Remember that the wake of a boat does not determine its course. James
is probably the most inspired New Testament writer outside of the
Messiah in this important understanding:
Jas 3:3 Look, we put bits in the mouths of horses, for them to obey
us, and we turn their body.
Jas 3:4 Look at the ships too: although they are so big and are driven
by strong winds, they are turned by a very small rudder wherever the
pilot intends.
Jas 3:5 So too the tongue is a little member, yet boasts greatly. See
how a little fire kindles a great forest!
Change course by your belief and speak of the life that you have NOW.
Do you not know that it has already been given to you? You are
created in the image of the father and so as YAHWEH Creates, so should
you being One with his Spirit.
Gen 1:3 And Elohim said, “Let light come to be,” and light came to be.
Understanding that it is the spirit that manifested light brings us to
the understanding of is really meant in John 1: 14 “And the Word
became flesh”. So often in dogmatic faith, we read things and then
add our own understanding to what is written.
This does not say Jesus became flesh, rather the word became ALL FLESH
in the beginning and it continues to manifest by the spirit to this
day. The spirit does nothing and yet, nothing is left undone. Yahweh
hasn’t changed and yet, change is inevitable but it must be you that
is willing to change.
Deu 4:36 “From the heavens He let you hear His voice, to instruct you,
and on earth He showed you His great fire, and you heard His words out
of the midst of the fire.
Deu 4:37 “And because He loved your fathers, therefore He chose their
seed after them, and brought you out of Mitsrayim with His Presence,
with His great power,
Deu 4:38 to drive out from before you nations greater and stronger
than you, to bring you in, to give you their land as an inheritance,
as it is today.
Not Yesterday, not tomorrow, TODAY is the day and NOW is the time for
you to receive the blessing by your belief. Begin to understand,
Yahweh is your strength, you are made strong by your belief!
Num 6:24 “Yahweh bless you and guard you;
Num 6:25 Yahweh make His face shine upon you, and show favour to you;
Num 6:26 Yahweh lift up His face upon you, and give you peace.” ’
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
“Begin to see yourself as a soul with a body rather than a body with a
soul.”
Wayne Dyer
Exo 20:7 “You do not bring the Name of 'Yud-Heh-Vav-Heh [translated
Yahweh] your Elohim to naught, for Yahweh does not leave the one
unpunished who brings His Name to naught.
Respond directly:
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/messianic_Yehoshua/
http://www.isr-messianic.org/ <- download scriptures free
http://messianicyehoshua.googlegroups.com/web/RNKJV.zip
Restored Names King James for E-sword
“A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon.
Courage is like love; it must have hope for nourishment.”
Napoleon Bonaparte
“A person who won't read has no advantage over one who can't read.”
Mark Twain
guardian Snow
First Daughters Not Vaccinated Against H1N1
President Obama's school age daughters have not been vaccinated
against the H1N1 flu virus. White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs
says the vaccine is not available to them based on their risk.
The Centers for Disease Control recommend that children ages 6 months
through 18 years of age receive a vaccination against the H1N1 flu
virus. The CDC also says a regular seasonal flu shot does not protect
against the virus.
http://whitehouse.blogs.foxnews.com/2009/10/08/first-daughters-not-vaccinated-against-h1n1/
-------
Now that we have a “National Emergency”, shouldn’t the first family be
the first to be inoculated by the H1N1 vaccine as a show of support of
his own policy? I find this interesting considering the current
Marxist climate in Congress on the issue of health care. Is it simply
a coincidence that we have a health care related “national emergency”
while the congress is attempting to pass health care reform?
-------
When Asked Where the Constitution Authorizes Congress to Order
Americans To Buy Health Insurance, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-
Calif.) Says: 'Are You Serious?' Nadeam Elshami, then told CNSNews.com
that asking the speaker of the House where the Constitution authorized
Congress to mandated that individual Americans buy health insurance as
not a "serious question."
Currently, each of the five health care overhaul proposals being
considered in Congress would COMMAND every American adult to buy
health insurance. Any person defying this mandate would be required to
pay a penalty to the Internal Revenue Service.
In 1994, when the health care reform plan then being advanced by
President Clinton called for mandating that all Americans buy health
insurance, the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office studed the
issue and concluded:
“The government has never required people to buy any good or service
as a condition of lawful residence in the United States. An individual
mandate would have two features that, in combination, would make it
unique. First, it would impose a duty on individuals as members of
society. Second, it would require people to purchase a specific
service that would be heavily regulated by the federal government.”
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/55971
Now we have NATIONAL HEALTH SCARE.
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
Exo 20:7 “You do not bring the Name of 'Yud-Heh-Vav-Heh [translated
Yahweh] your Elohim to naught, for Yahweh does not leave the one
unpunished who brings His Name to naught.
Respond directly:
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/messianic_Yehoshua/
Although images of perfection in people's personal lives can cause
unhappiness, images of perfect societies - utopian images - can cause
monstrous evil. In fact, forcefully changing society to conform to
societal images was the greatest cause of evil in the twentieth
century.
Dennis Prager
Emma
guardian Snow says...
>
>
>I respect what you believe Emma but answer a few questions for me..
>
>Do you not believe that your deity can and will heal you?
>Do you have faith in your deity?
>Do you think your deity wishes to punish you with sickness?
Sickness is not a punishment.
Yes, I think God can answer prayers for the sick, but God
expects us to look after our health and the health
of others. Also, God sends us medicine and doctors,
so we should use them.
I'm a conservative, but I do believe in "socialized"
health care, as you call it in the US. I think it's
commanded of us to take care of the sick in our societies,
and to protect the weak and vulnerable. The Bible is
choc-full of that sort of thing.
Emma
>
>
> Emma, the swine flu is dangerous without need for mutation. I've had
> it several years ago and was hospitalized with a fever of 104, and
>remained there for 17 days before being released. By all means have the
>shot.
>
I know what you mean. I had seasonal flu last year and it was
horrible. I couldn't eat for a week, and I was having trouble
breathing and I was on antibiotics. Nasty.
I think you and I may have a little bit of immunity because
we've had nasty bouts of flu in the past. I'm not taking
any chances though.
I would advise everyone to get the flu jab.
guardian Snow
> guardian Snow says...
>
>
>
> >I respect what you believe Emma but answer a few questions for me..
>
> >Do you not believe that your deity can and will heal you?
> >Do you have faith in your deity?
> >Do you think your deity wishes to punish you with sickness?
>
> Sickness is not a punishment.
Scriptures disagrees with you Emma:
Deu 28:58 “If you do not guard to do all the Words of this Torah that
are written in this book, to fear this esteemed and awesome Name,
YAHWEH your Elohim,
Deu 28:59 then YAHWEH shall bring upon you and your descendants
extraordinary plagues, great and lasting plagues, and grievous and
lasting sicknesses.
> Yes, I think God can answer prayers for the sick, but God
> expects us to look after our health and the health
> of others. Also, God sends us medicine and doctors,
> so we should use them.
While I do not disagree with you on caring for our own health, using
doctors and natural medicine I have to wonder why you don't believe
your deity would heal you or prevent you from getting ill in the first
place that you would live in fear of H1N1.
> I'm a conservative, but I do believe in "socialized"
> health care, as you call it in the US. I think it's
> commanded of us to take care of the sick in our societies,
> and to protect the weak and vulnerable. The Bible is
> choc-full of that sort of thing.
Have you ever experienced the alternative? Even in the United States
they have limited socialized medicine. I suggest to you that you
believe in what you have because you have never experienced an
alternative. Before socialized medicine, it wasn't unheard of for
doctors to make house calls and charge a fee people could actually
afford:)
Rod
> In article <hc2n6h$gbg$1...@news.eternal-september.org>, Rod says...
>>
>> Emma, the swine flu is dangerous without need for mutation. I've had
>> it several years ago and was hospitalized with a fever of 104, and
>> remained there for 17 days before being released. By all means have the
>> shot.
>>
>
>
> I know what you mean. I had seasonal flu last year and it was
> horrible. I couldn't eat for a week, and I was having trouble
> breathing and I was on antibiotics. Nasty.
>
> I think you and I may have a little bit of immunity because
> we've had nasty bouts of flu in the past.
I am hoping that is so, but I'm not brave enough to gamble. At the
first opportunity I'm getting the shot.
Terry Cross
> In article <d7863046-40da-41a2-b40e-da26b95a7...@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
The potential for mutation exists with all diseases and cannot be
measured.
> I'll definitely
> have the vaccine when it becomes available.
If the disease "mutates" as you fear, the vaccine will not protect
you.
> At the moment
> the UK government is only vaccinating vulnerable groups.
> The rest of us will get the vaccine later on though.
> It's a very wise precaution IMO.
Given the risks of vaccines of all kinds, how did you come to decide
that it is "very wise?"
TCross
guardian Snow
> > I think you and I may have a little bit of immunity because
> > we've had nasty bouts of flu in the past.
>
> I am hoping that is so, but I'm not brave enough to gamble. At the
> first opportunity I'm getting the shot.
>
> I'm not taking
I will not get sick. I know this because I have a promise according
to the word and it is my belief that in Yahweh I am strong.
Isa 45:24 “One shall say, ‘Only in YAHWEH do I have righteousness and
strength’ – he comes to Him. And all those displeased with Him shall
be put to shame.
Rod
> On Oct 27, 5:36 am, Rod <spa...@ymail.com> wrote:
>
>>> I think you and I may have a little bit of immunity because
>>> we've had nasty bouts of flu in the past.
>> I am hoping that is so, but I'm not brave enough to gamble. At the
>> first opportunity I'm getting the shot.
>>
>> I'm not taking
>
> I will not get sick. I know this because I have a promise according
> to the word and it is my belief that in Yahweh I am strong.
>
> strength� � he comes to Him. And all those displeased with Him shall
> be put to shame.
I've said the same thing a time before and taken ill. I'm sticking
with what I know works for me.
guardian Snow
> guardian Snow wrote:
> > On Oct 27, 5:36 am, Rod <spa...@ymail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> I think you and I may have a little bit of immunity because
> >>> we've had nasty bouts of flu in the past.
> >> I am hoping that is so, but I'm not brave enough to gamble. At the
> >> first opportunity I'm getting the shot.
>
> >> I'm not taking
>
> > I will not get sick. I know this because I have a promise according
> > to the word and it is my belief that in Yahweh I am strong.
>
> > strength’ – he comes to Him. And all those displeased with Him shall
> > be put to shame.
>
> I've said the same thing a time before and taken ill. I'm sticking
> with what I know works for me.
My goal is to help you understand your potential for greatness. If
not in this area of your life, I encourage you to exercise the power
of your belief in another area but know this, you get what you focus
on and so if prosperity is what you seek, do not focus on any lack.
Instead, be grateful for all that you already have in the NOW.
Live in the Now.
I respect your choice and thank you for being the person that you
are. I appreciate Emma's thoughts... I wish she wasn't scared... if
taking this placebo removes fear as an obstacle, it may serve it's
good.
guardian Snow
> > Exo 15:26 And He said, If you diligently obey the voice of YAHWEH
> >your Elohim and do what is right in His eyes, and shall listen to His
> >commands and shall guard all His laws, I shall bring on you none of
> >the diseases I brought on the Mitsrites, for I am YAHWEH who heals
> >you.
> I'm very worried about swine flu because they say it
> could mutate into something serious. I'll definitely
> have the vaccine when it becomes available. At the moment
> the UK government is only vaccinating vulnerable groups.
> The rest of us will get the vaccine later on though.
> It's a very wise precaution IMO.
I was thinking a lot on this Emma.. If you knew the spiritual force
that is walking beside you in all your endeavors and who was watching
over you, you could NEVER feel fear again. You are a creature of the
divine and Almighty creator that has been made in his image and you
are worthy of nothing but goodness and mercy to follow you all the
days of your life.
Your cup runs over... Understand this, You have been inoculated
against all forms of sickness and disease by a vaccine that is
stronger than any man made medication because it is the SPIRIT that
makes you whole and keeps you strong.
randy
"Emma"
> Sickness is not a punishment.
According to the Scriptures, sickness can either be a punishment or not. If
you'll read the curses of the Law in the late chapters of Deuteronomy,
you'll notice that sickness is clearly a part of the curses of disobedience.
Deut 28:21 The LORD will make the pestilence cleave to you until he has
consumed you off the land which you are entering to take possession of it.
22 The LORD will smite you with consumption, and with fever, inflammation,
and fiery heat, and with drought, and with blasting, and with mildew; they
shall pursue you until you perish.
Isa 1:5 Why will you still be smitten, that you continue to rebel? The
whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint.
6 From the sole of the foot even to the head, there is no soundness in it,
but bruises and sores and bleeding wounds; they are not pressed out, or
bound up, or softened with oil.
The Scriptures are chalk-full of these kinds of indications, that God
afflicts with sickness those who rebel against Him. Indeed it is the very
basis for our doctrine of the sin nature, which came upon mankind as a
result of the rebellion of Adam and Eve. We are mortal, and die, precisely
because man has turned away from God and has come to tend towards rebellion
against God.
But in the following verse Jesus indicates that not all calamity comes from
rebellion or from a particular rebellious act we've done...
Lu 13:4 Or those eighteen upon whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed
them, do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who
dwelt in Jerusalem?
Though this last verse does seem to assume sin nature has something to do
with natural calamities befalling us, it does not pinpoint specific sin,
which indicates to me we *all* suffer calamities, because we all are
sin-laden and live in an environment in which the world has been given over
to calamity and to natural disaster. We cannot, therefore, always judge
someone who suffers calamity as if he or she is under judgment. What we
cannot say, however, is that we do not deserve in some sense to suffer,
since mankind has been put in this hostile environment precisely because we
have a sin tendency, or a sin nature.
I just thought I'd share my view on this.
> I'm a conservative, but I do believe in "socialized"
> health care, as you call it in the US. I think it's
> commanded of us to take care of the sick in our societies,
> and to protect the weak and vulnerable. The Bible is
> choc-full of that sort of thing.
The Bible is concerned for those who are weak or helpless, when they have
brought it upon themselves and are not interested in reform. But yes, it is
Christian for both the Christian individual and the Christian society to
help the weak and the oppressed. That is sometimes why in our nation's
foreign policy we go into Africa or into places like Bosnia to aid the
oppressed and the afflicted. That is also why we went into Kuwait, to defend
them against Saddam Hussein. That is why, ultimately, we went to war with
Saddam Hussein again, because he posed a constant threat to the Kurds and to
the helpless Shiites.
But socialized health care can be a form of oppression to citizens of a
State who do not wish to shoulder the burden of those who *do not deserve
help.* People who choose to gamble do not deserve to get bail-out money.
Corporations who make risky investments do not deserve bail-out money from
our taxes. People who choose to drink until they become alcoholics do not
deserve to have me pay for their health insurance. Those who climb mountains
and fall do not deserve my help in paying for their wheel chair.
Yes, there is a time for compassion, but not, in my view, through socialized
health care. We don't have to be characterized as "uncompassionate" just
because some of us do not believe in socialized health care. There are other
ways to provide funds to help those in distress who bring it upon
themselves.
randy
Linda Lee
...
> But socialized health care can be a form of oppression to citizens of a
> State who do not wish to shoulder the burden of those who *do not deserve
> help.*
That's cruel. According to the Messiah, it's not up to you to decide
who deserves help and compassion and who doesn't, and if you deny some
of medical help because you consider them 'undeserving', you will pay
for it at Judgment Day because the Messiah said in Matt. 25:40,
"Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my
brethren, ye have done it unto me". He does NOT say, 'But it's okay to
deny some medical treatment if you have judged that they are
undeserving of your help and compassion'.
Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the
holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall
separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from
the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats
on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come,
ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the
foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty,
and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I
was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw
we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked,
and clothed thee?
Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto
thee?
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say
unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these
my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart
from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and
his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was
thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye
clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we
thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in
prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you,
Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not
to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but
the righteous into life eternal.
> randy
guardian Snow
> Yes, there is a time for compassion, but not, in my view, through socialized
> health care. We don't have to be characterized as "uncompassionate" just
> because some of us do not believe in socialized health care. There are other
> ways to provide funds to help those in distress who bring it upon
> themselves.
> randy
I happen to agree with you on the topic of socialized medicine. If
the will to be well and efficient is weakened, illness and inability
to work is caused. While it's clear that others would like to use
scriptures to pretend that the Messiah spoke of the subject. The
reality is that many people like to attempt to supplant INDIVIDUAL
responcibility of caring for our neighbors, the poor and others with
the power of the state by the power of legalized robbery.
The THEOCRATIC society of the 1st century made it the mission on the
CHURCH to provide for the common good of it's members. This was
clearly demonstrated in Acts chapter 5:
Act 5:3 But Kĕpha said, “Ḥananyah, why has Satan filled your heart to
lie to the Set-apart Spirit and keep back from the price of the land
for yourself?
So, while the scriptures speak of communal society in Acts, the
reality is that it is not lawful for one to use the power of state law
to take away from a man that which is not willingly given.
Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out
devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
We are to be free to give as we see fit to those who are deserving.
Mat 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye
your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and
turn again and rend you.
We are not suppose to give to those we consider not worthy and in this
we have the right to use our judgment when we give to others:
Mat 15:26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the
children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
The state does not use this judgment and instead gives to all that
come to eat at its trough of legalized stealing.
I believe the idea is that when it is the congregation that serves the
poor, our master is acknowledged.. for some people.. that master is
the state and for those of us who truly understand the message of
scriptures, we have on master and it is not money, the state or any
other man.
Milton Friedman said, "We as human beings don't have a
responsibility, but I hope we have a compassion and an interest in the
bottom twenty percent. And I only want to say to you that the
capitalist system, the private enterprise system in the nineteenth
century did a far better job of expressing that sense of compassion
than the governmental welfare programs are today. The nineteenth
century, the period which people denigrate as a high tide of
capitalism had the-- was the period of the greatest out pouring of
eleemosynary and charitable activity that the world has ever known.
And one of the things I hold against the welfare system, most
seriously, is that it has destroyed private charitable arrangements
which are far more effective, far more compassionate, far more person-
to-person in helping people who are really, for no fault of their own,
in disadvantaged situations."
(HT The Anti-Candlemakers' League)
"An essential point in the social philosophy of interventionism is the
existence of an inexhaustible fund which can be squeezed forever. The
whole system of interventionism collapses when this fountain is
drained off: The Santa Claus principle liquidates itself."
Ludwig von Mises
Num 6:24 “Yahweh bless you and guard you;
Num 6:25 Yahweh make His face shine upon you, and show favour to you;
Num 6:26 Yahweh lift up His face upon you, and give you peace.” ’
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate
their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take
from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of
good government.
Thomas Jefferson
Exo 20:7 “You do not bring the Name of 'Yud-Heh-Vav-Heh [translated
Yahweh] your Elohim to naught, for Yahweh does not leave the one
unpunished who brings His Name to naught.
Welfare's purpose should be to eliminate, as far as possible, the need
for its own existence.
Ronald Reagan
Respond directly:
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/messianic_Yehoshua/
http://www.isr-messianic.org/ <- download scriptures free
http://messianicyehoshua.googlegroups.com/web/RNKJV.zip
Restored Names King James for E-sword
http://messianicyehoshua.googlegroups.com/web/Jubilees.pdf
Book of Jubilees
I believe that being successful means having a balance of success
stories across the many areas of your life. You can't truly be
considered successful in your business life if your home life is in
shambles.
Zig Ziglar
Rod
Allow me to quote you again; "But socialized health care can be a
form of oppression to citizens of a State who do not wish to shoulder
the burden of those who *do not deserve help.*"
I don't believe that you deserve medical care or a job Randy, so
begining today I'm gouing to be working hard qwriting letters to
congressmen in an effort to get your UNEMPLOYMENT stopped, and detailing
your remarks.
I don't want to shoulder the burden of supporting you any longer.
guardian Snow
> randy wrote:
>
> I don't believe that you deserve medical care or a job Randy, so
> begining today I'm gouing to be working hard qwriting letters to
> congressmen in an effort to get your UNEMPLOYMENT stopped, and detailing
> your remarks.
Unemployment "Insurance" is not the same as socialized medicine. The
insurance is paid by the employees and employers during periods of
employment and people can opt out of it but it would be stupid to do
so.. on the other hand all the current socialized bills before
congress would make them a condition of living in the United States, a
burden never before required and a power never given to congress under
the constitution.
Rod
You won't like my politics.
Rod
Correct, they aren't the same. In the US the employer bears the full
burden of paying the unemployment tax, not the employee. I don't want to
carry him any longer. The fact is that in the US taxes are a reality
that you cannot escape. Since this is the case and I have to pay, I
want my taxes to support food, clothing and medical care for the poor,
and once again I will be supporting Randy...but this time he'll learn
what it feels like to be helpless.
I believe that any person spurning socialized medicine or help for the
poor should be poor themselves and find out what it is like before
denying help to the needy.
Ike E 2009
"Rod" <spa...@ymail.com> wrote in message
news:hc9ud9$vml$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
[snip]
> I don't believe that you deserve medical care or a job Randy, so
> begining today I'm gouing to be working hard qwriting letters to
> congressmen in an effort to get your UNEMPLOYMENT stopped, and detailing
> your remarks.
>
> I don't want to shoulder the burden of supporting you any longer.
Ah, excuse me, but workers PAY for their unemployment insurance IN ADVANCE,
goofy, both out of pocket AND as part of their government-mandated benefits,
including social security, and Medicare and Medicaid insurance.
So "you" don't "shoulder the burden" of that to begin with.
Just thought I might remind you of that.
[snip]
Ike
Emma
guardian Snow says...
>
>Scriptures disagrees with you Emma:
>
>are written in this book, to fear this esteemed and awesome Name,
>YAHWEH your Elohim,
>Deu 28:59 then YAHWEH shall bring upon you and your descendants
>extraordinary plagues, great and lasting plagues, and grievous and
>lasting sicknesses.
That doesn't apply to Christians. That's Jewish scripture.
>> Yes, I think God can answer prayers for the sick, but God
>> expects us to look after our health and the health
>> of others. Also, God sends us medicine and doctors,
>> so we should use them.
>
>While I do not disagree with you on caring for our own health, using
>doctors and natural medicine I have to wonder why you don't believe
>your deity would heal you or prevent you from getting ill in the first
>place that you would live in fear of H1N1.
Because the Bible doesn't promise that, and anyway,
we know from history and experience that Christians get sick
just as often as anyone else.
>> I'm a conservative, but I do believe in "socialized"
>> health care, as you call it in the US. I think it's
>> commanded of us to take care of the sick in our societies,
>> and to protect the weak and vulnerable. The Bible is
>> choc-full of that sort of thing.
>
>Have you ever experienced the alternative?
Yes, I've experienced both. We have both private and
"socialized" health care in the UK.
The problem with private health care is that they
often try to sell you treatments you don't need.
Also, in the UK, the private hospitals often have less
expertise than the NHS hospitals.
Private hospitals are okay in some respects (pretty rooms, no
waiting times) but in an emergency, they are not always
the safest places to be, and they often
transfer you to an NHS hospital where there are more
qualified staff.
Emma
>
>
>"Emma"
>> Sickness is not a punishment.
>
>According to the Scriptures, sickness can either be a punishment or not. If
>you'll read the curses of the Law in the late chapters of Deuteronomy,
>you'll notice that sickness is clearly a part of the curses of disobedience.
>
>Deut 28:21 The LORD will make the pestilence cleave to you until he has
>consumed you off the land which you are entering to take possession of it.
>22 The LORD will smite you with consumption, and with fever, inflammation,
>and fiery heat, and with drought, and with blasting, and with mildew; they
>shall pursue you until you perish.
>
>Isa 1:5 Why will you still be smitten, that you continue to rebel? The
>whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint.
>6 From the sole of the foot even to the head, there is no soundness in it,
>but bruises and sores and bleeding wounds; they are not pressed out, or
>bound up, or softened with oil.
But as I said in a previous post, those are Jewish
scriptures. Not Christian.
>
>But in the following verse Jesus indicates that not all calamity comes from
>rebellion or from a particular rebellious act we've done...
>
>Lu 13:4 Or those eighteen upon whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed
>them, do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who
>dwelt in Jerusalem?
>
>Though this last verse does seem to assume sin nature has something to do
>with natural calamities befalling us, it does not pinpoint specific sin,
>which indicates to me we *all* suffer calamities, because we all are
>sin-laden and live in an environment in which the world has been given over
>to calamity and to natural disaster. We cannot, therefore, always judge
>someone who suffers calamity as if he or she is under judgment. What we
>cannot say, however, is that we do not deserve in some sense to suffer,
>since mankind has been put in this hostile environment precisely because we
>have a sin tendency, or a sin nature.
>
>I just thought I'd share my view on this.
OK. That's a great verse above. It shows that Jesus didn't
equate suffering with sin.
>But socialized health care can be a form of oppression to citizens of a
>State who do not wish to shoulder the burden of those who *do not deserve
>help.*
Everyone deserves health though. God doesn't discriminate.
The sun shines "on the righteous and the unrighteous".
>People who choose to gamble do not deserve to get bail-out money.
>Corporations who make risky investments do not deserve bail-out money from
>our taxes.
That's nothing to do with health care.
We should still give health care to gamblers and bankers.
> People who choose to drink until they become alcoholics do not
>deserve to have me pay for their health insurance. Those who climb mountains
>and fall do not deserve my help in paying for their wheel chair.
Yes they do. In any case, when did climbing mountains become
a sin?
We should care for people without making judgments. God cares about
sinners. Actually, Jesus was a particular friend of sinners.
Ike E 2009
"Emma" <em...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:hca2f...@drn.newsguy.com...
[snip]
> But as I said in a previous post, those are Jewish
> scriptures. Not Christian.
"Jewish scriptures" ARE "Christian scriptures," too, goofball: Paul and the
boys taught the Gospel from the OLD Testament, NOT the New--THEY HADN'T
WRITTEN IT YET.
You can no more separate "Jewish scriptures" from Christianity than you can
separate water-from-water in the same full glass.
Ike
Emma
So you keep all the Jewish laws about diet, do you?
You keep all the Jewish festivals?
The laws in the Old Testament don't apply to Christians.
Rod
> "Rod" <spa...@ymail.com> wrote in message
> news:hc9ud9$vml$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> [snip]
>
>> I don't believe that you deserve medical care or a job Randy, so
>> begining today I'm gouing to be working hard qwriting letters to
>> congressmen in an effort to get your UNEMPLOYMENT stopped, and detailing
>> your remarks.
>>
>> I don't want to shoulder the burden of supporting you any longer.
>
> Ah, excuse me, but workers PAY for their unemployment insurance IN ADVANCE,
> goofy,
Goofy is alive and well between your ears. In Kansas the employer
shoulders the burden of regular unemployment taxes.
both out of pocket AND as part of their government-mandated benefits,
> including social security, and Medicare and Medicaid insurance.
>
> So "you" don't "shoulder the burden" of that to begin with.
>
> Just thought I might remind you of that.
>
> [snip]
>
> Ike
>
>
Heed your own reminders, goofy....
guardian Snow
> >> I don't believe that you deserve medical care or a job Randy, so
> >> begining today I'm gouing to be working hard qwriting letters to
> >> congressmen in an effort to get your UNEMPLOYMENT stopped, and detailing
> >> your remarks.
>
> > Unemployment "Insurance" is not the same as socialized medicine. The
> > insurance is paid by the employees and employers during periods of
> > employment and people can opt out of it but it would be stupid to do
> > so.. on the other hand all the current socialized bills before
> > congress would make them a condition of living in the United States, a
> > burden never before required and a power never given to congress under
> > the constitution.
>
> You won't like my politics.
Doesn't matter Rod... You are entitled to your understanding of the
world and you are entitled to disagree with me:) You are free to
express your point of view to me and while I may see your point as
misinformed, you would see mine the same way... it doesn't mean that I
would suddenly turn into a stalker spamming garbage at you:)
I respect diverse opinions... and I respect individuals..
Rod
Okay...I can live peacefully with that!
Rod
> guardian Snow wrote:
>> On Oct 29, 4:18 am, Rod <spa...@ymail.com> wrote:
>>> randy wrote:
>>>
>>
>>> I don't believe that you deserve medical care or a job Randy, so
>>> congressmen in an effort to get your UNEMPLOYMENT stopped, and detailing
>>> your remarks.
>>
>> Unemployment "Insurance" is not the same as socialized medicine. The
>> insurance is paid by the employees and employers during periods of
>> employment and people can opt out of it but it would be stupid to do
>> so.. on the other hand all the current socialized bills before
>> congress would make them a condition of living in the United States, a
>> burden never before required and a power never given to congress under
>> the constitution.
>>
Note the correction below; In the US should read In KANSAS,
corrected below.
>
> Correct, they aren't the same. In "KANSAS" the employer bears the full
> burden of paying the unemployment tax, not the employee. I don't want to
> carry him any longer. The fact is that in the US taxes are a reality
> that you cannot escape. Since this is the case and I have to pay, I
> want my taxes to support food, clothing and medical care for the poor,
> and once again I will be supporting Randy...but this time he'll learn
> what it feels like to be helpless.
>
> I believe that any person spurning socialized medicine or help for the
> poor should be poor themselves and find out what it is like before
> denying help to the needy.
Goofy is alive and well, holding Ikes ears apart..
Ike E 2009
Ehhhhh.
Wrong answer.
The laws of the Old Testament DO apply to Christians--they're what they're
SAVED from.
But that doesn't change the fact that they're still VALID.
Ike
Linda Lee
That's nice of you. So you wouldn't follow him around hounding him by
calling him a "murderer" if he tells you he voted for President Obama
like you do me, just a few days ago asking me again if I'd "voted for
any more baby killers" lately. Good to see you've decided to change
suddenly.
Emma
>
>The laws of the Old Testament DO apply to Christians--they're what they're
>SAVED from.
>But that doesn't change the fact that they're still VALID.
If the laws were valid for Christians, you would be
required to keep them.
Emma
>
>
>If the laws were valid for Christians, you would be
>required to keep them.
>
Ooops, forgot to add... the laws have ceased to be!
They have expired and gone to meet their maker! They
rest in peace! Kicked the bucket! These are **EX-LAWS**!!
Ike E 2009
> In article <hcalj...@drn.newsguy.com>, Emma says...
>>
>>
>>If the laws were valid for Christians, you would be
>>required to keep them.
>>
>
>
> Ooops, forgot to add... the laws have ceased to be!
Funny: That's NOT what Jesus said...
Mt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or
one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till ALL BE FULFILLED.
Hmmmm. Heaven and earth are still here, hence, ALL has not been fulfilled.
> They have expired and gone to meet their maker! They
> rest in peace! Kicked the bucket! These are **EX-LAWS**!!
Gee, you must be reading a different Bible than everyone else...
Mt 22:37-39
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy
heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and
great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as
thyself.
On these two commandments hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets.
It's the LAW that brings conviction of sin, and, hence, our need for the
Gospel of Grace.
But make no mistake: The law has NOT "ceased to be."
Ike
Ike E 2009
> >Ike E 2009 In article , says...
>>
>>The laws of the Old Testament DO apply to Christians--they're what they're
>>SAVED from.
>
>
>>But that doesn't change the fact that they're still VALID.
>
> If the laws were valid for Christians, you would be
> required to keep them.
Uh, no, Christians OVERCOME the law by FAITH, i.e. "saved by Grace through
faith."
Ike
Rod
Hmmm...it appears that Snow doesn't like you to well...I can't
imagine why....???????????????????????????........???????????????
Emma
>
>Funny: That's NOT what Jesus said...
>
>Mt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or
>one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till ALL BE FULFILLED.
>
>Hmmmm. Heaven and earth are still here, hence, ALL has not been fulfilled.
So if you think the OT laws apply to you, you had better
start keeping them.
Most of the OT laws don't apply to you though.
They apply to Jews. They always applied to Jews only,
and not to non-Jews.
The moral laws apply to Christians.
>> They have expired and gone to meet their maker! They
>> rest in peace! Kicked the bucket! These are **EX-LAWS**!!
>
>Gee, you must be reading a different Bible than everyone else...
>
>Mt 22:37-39
>
> Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy
>heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and
>great commandment.
> And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as
>thyself.
> On these two commandments hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets.
>
>It's the LAW that brings conviction of sin, and, hence, our need for the
>Gospel of Grace.
>
>But make no mistake: The law has NOT "ceased to be."
>
The moral laws apply to everyone. Most of the OT laws apply
to Jews only. There is a difference.
Emma
>> required to keep them.
>
>Uh, no, Christians OVERCOME the law by FAITH, i.e. "saved by Grace through
>faith."
>
You can't overcome a law by faith; you still have to
keep the moral laws.
Ike E 2009
> In article <hcan5o$auf$1...@news.eternal-september.org>, Ike E 2009 says...
>>
>>
>>"Emma" <em...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>> If the laws were valid for Christians, you would be
>>> required to keep them.
>>
>>Uh, no, Christians OVERCOME the law by FAITH, i.e. "saved by Grace through
>>faith."
>>
>
> You can't overcome a law by faith; you still have to
> keep the moral laws.
Cite from the Bible.
Ike
Ike E 2009
> In article <hcan3m$aeg$1...@news.eternal-september.org>, Ike E 2009 says...
>>
>>
>>"Emma" <em...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
>>>>
>>> Ooops, forgot to add... the laws have ceased to be!
>>
>>Funny: That's NOT what Jesus said...
>>
>>Mt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or
>>one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till ALL BE FULFILLED.
>>
>>Hmmmm. Heaven and earth are still here, hence, ALL has not been fulfilled.
>
> So if you think the OT laws apply to you, you had better
> start keeping them.
I didn't say they applied to Christians.
I said they are OVERCOME by THE GOSPEL OF GRACE.
You really are quite dense.
> Most of the OT laws don't apply to you though.
> They apply to Jews. They always applied to Jews only,
> and not to non-Jews.
Oh, no. They'll be the basis for the judgment of the world.
> The moral laws apply to Christians.
ALL laws apply to Christians--that's what they are SAVED from.
>>> They have expired and gone to meet their maker! They
>>> rest in peace! Kicked the bucket! These are **EX-LAWS**!!
>>
>>Gee, you must be reading a different Bible than everyone else...
>>
>>Mt 22:37-39
>>
>> Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy
>>heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and
>>great commandment.
>> And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as
>>thyself.
>> On these two commandments hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets.
>>
>>It's the LAW that brings conviction of sin, and, hence, our need for the
>>Gospel of Grace.
>>
>>But make no mistake: The law has NOT "ceased to be."
>>
>
> The moral laws apply to everyone.
The WHOLE law applies to everyone.
> Most of the OT laws apply
> to Jews only. There is a difference.
Only in your mind.
Jesus said otherwise...
Mt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or
one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till ALL BE FULFILLED.
I don't know where you're getting YOUR information from, but I get mine
straight from the Bible.
In fact, Jesus said that part of His FUNCTION was to "show judgment to the
Gentiles," i.e. to inform them of the law and the penalties thereof (which
necessitates grace).
No law, no grace; otherwise, what would you need grace FROM?
Ike
Emma
>
>
>"Emma" <em...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
>news:hcao6...@drn.newsguy.com...
>> In article <hcan5o$auf$1...@news.eternal-september.org>, Ike E 2009 says...
>>>
>>>
>>>"Emma" <em...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> If the laws were valid for Christians, you would be
>>>> required to keep them.
>>>
>>>Uh, no, Christians OVERCOME the law by FAITH, i.e. "saved by Grace through
>>>faith."
>>>
>>
>> You can't overcome a law by faith; you still have to
>> keep the moral laws.
>
>Cite from the Bible.
>
You cite from the Bible. You are the one making the
assertion.
How can you overcome a law by faith?
You have to obey the law not to steal, for instance.
You can't decide not to obey it and overcome it by faith
instead.
Rod
Well Emma...it appears that you have Ike stymied...
Linda Lee
It also appears he is being hypocritical when he says, "You are
entitled to your understanding of the world and you are entitled to
disagree with me:) You are free to express your point of view to me
and while I may see your point as misinformed, you would see mine the
same way... it doesn't mean that I would suddenly turn into a stalker
spamming garbage at you:) I respect diverse opinions", which is why I
don't like him too well.
Terry Cross
> In article <hcaov5$nt...@news.eternal-september.org>, Ike E 2009 says...
>
>
>
>
>
> >"Emma" <e...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
> >news:hcao6...@drn.newsguy.com...
> >> In article <hcan5o$au...@news.eternal-september.org>, Ike E 2009 says...
>
> >>>"Emma" <e...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
>
> >>>> If the laws were valid for Christians, you would be
> >>>> required to keep them.
>
> >>>Uh, no, Christians OVERCOME the law by FAITH, i.e. "saved by Grace through
> >>>faith."
>
> >> You can't overcome a law by faith; you still have to
> >> keep the moral laws.
>
> >Cite from the Bible.
>
> You cite from the Bible. You are the one making the
> assertion.
> How can you overcome a law by faith?
>
> You have to obey the law not to steal, for instance.
> You can't decide not to obey it and overcome it by faith
> instead.
This is where the silly laws (blue fringed garments, not mixing
clothing fibers, stoning neighbors, slaughtering animals to become
morally pure) are divided from the real laws (not murdering, not
stealing, not coveting, not harming).
The silly laws are not inherited by Christians. The real laws are far
too real and sensible to be recognized by Judaism, which is why
Judaism rejected Jesus.
TCross
Emma
>> start keeping them.
>
>I didn't say they applied to Christians.
Yes, you did.
Ike quote:
"The laws of the Old Testament DO apply to Christians"
>> Most of the OT laws don't apply to you though.
>> They apply to Jews. They always applied to Jews only,
>> and not to non-Jews.
>
>Oh, no. They'll be the basis for the judgment of the world.
The Jewish dietary laws? You think the world should
be keeping those?
>> The moral laws apply to everyone.
>
>The WHOLE law applies to everyone.
No. Even in Old Testament times, non-Jews did not
have to keep all the Jewish laws.
>> Most of the OT laws apply
>> to Jews only. There is a difference.
>
>Only in your mind.
>
>Jesus said otherwise...
>
>Mt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or
>one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till ALL BE FULFILLED.
>
>I don't know where you're getting YOUR information from, but I get mine
>straight from the Bible.
Then where does it say you overcome the law by faith?
Terry Cross
> "Emma" <e...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
>
> news:hcao2...@drn.newsguy.com...
>
>
>
> > In article <hcan3m$ae...@news.eternal-september.org>, Ike E 2009 says...
>
> >>"Emma" <e...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
We need grace from evil and moral weakness in the face of evil. We
gain grace by giving grace to others. Forgive us our trespasses as we
forgive those who trespass against us. Succumbing to evil intentions
and pettiness, we become weak and evil. As we become weak and evil,
we inflict on others the same.
The cycle of degradation may or may not be birth and death, but it is
certainly returning evil for evil and redress for trespass. That
cycle is broken by faith.
TCross
Linda Lee
> In article <hcap87$q2...@news.eternal-september.org>, Ike E 2009 says...
>
>
>
> >"Emma" <e...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
These from the apostle John all imply it:
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep
the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we
love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments:
and his commandments are not grievous.
1Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this
is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we
beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,)
full of grace and truth.
Joh 1:15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of
whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he
was before me.
Joh 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for
grace.
Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by
Jesus Christ.
>
> --
> ..EMMA..http://www.britsattheirbest.com/http://www.cfoi.co.uk/
guardian Snow
He did tell me he voted for Obama. Obama supports abortion, abortion
is murder and both of you voted for a man that encourages murder. I
voted INDEPENDENT because I refuse to support those who would murder
the unborn. Let's review my post on the issue:
Ron Paul said, “All initiation of force is a violation of someone
else's rights, whether initiated by an individual or the state, for
the benefit of an individual or group of individuals, even if it's
supposed to be for the benefit of another individual or group of
individuals.” The same applies to Abortion as it was asked, “Should
it be the litmus test”? A better question is “Should the murder of
innocent unborn children be the litmus test?”
Deu 19:10 That innocent blood be not shed in thy land, which YHVH thy
Elohim giveth thee for an inheritance, and so blood be upon thee.
Somebody complained that I took this passage out of context but the
fact is, it needs no context just like:
Exo 20:13 “You do not murder.
Does this passage sound like it’s saying it’s alright to murder
sometimes? Why do people want to make excuses and bargain the demons?
Abortions not only kill the unborn child, they are killing the women
that have them! Maybe they don’t die on the operating table but I
tell you, IT KILLS their SOUL! Murder has become all to commonly
excepted in society and nobody has the guts to say STOP, IT’S a
COMMANDMENT that you don’t murder!
Gen 4:10 And He said, “What have you done? The voice of your brother’s
blood cries out to Me from the ground.
In the time that it took you to read this far into my post, ABORTIONS
will kill 120,000 Babies today alone around the world. That’s double
the entire population of Wyoming in ONE WEEK, murdered senselessly.
More innocent children die before you have your afternoon lunch then
all the Americans that have died in 8 years of war in Iraq. So if you
think war in Iraq is killing people, look at your own home town
because thousand more die in the United States by abortion then do
war.
Psa 9:12 For He remembers the seekers of bloodshed, He does not forget
the cry of the afflicted.
By the time you have your lunch at noon, more Americans will have died
by abortion in ONE MORNING then all the people that died during 9/11!
FACT!
Since 1972, 43 million Americans never got a say in how they died
because they were aborted. They were never given a choice to live.
Pro 6:15 Therefore shall his calamity come suddenly; suddenly shall he
be broken without remedy.
Pro 6:16 These six things doth YHVH hate: yea, seven are an
abomination unto him:
Pro 6:17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed INNOCENT
BLOOD,
Do you think for even a second that your heavenly Father has seen the
innocent blood crying out from the land? Do you really think the
murder of innocents shouldn’t be a litmus test? We spend millions of
dollars everyday under the banner of “protecting Americans” and then
by the end of that same day, we murdered thousands by our vote.
I have no desire to negotiate with murderous people who sit around
making excuses to kill unborn children and then turn around and claim
to be “Christian”. More unborn babies died then all the Jewish
Holocaust plus all of World War 2 and Vietnam combined, killed in our
own local towns by abortion.
Don’t talk to me about war.. this is war and if you support a
candidate that doesn’t oppose abortion, your contributing to the
rampant satanic blood sacrifice. Stop making excuses to support
candidates that don’t appose abortion, it’s costing us millions of
dollars more to murder the unborn and the toll on the American
conscience....
Yes, the opposition to murder should be a litmus test in a moral
society.
Is the repulsion and revulsion that is evoked by these travesties due
simply to the loss of life? Or is humanity’s outrage due to the fact
that lives were snuffed out unjustly and unfairly—that those lives
were “innocent” of any wrongdoing that their persecutors alleged as
justification to terminate their lives? If the former is true, why is
no great issue made of the death toll that takes place in the United
States every day? That figure stands at 6,674 (Sutton, 2003)—more than
two and a half times as many people as those who died on 9-11. That’s
how many people die every day in America—not to mention the thousands
who die every day around the world. Why do we feel no great heartache
for these multitudes—akin to that which we felt on the occasion of
9-11?
Isa 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your
Elohim, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not
hear. 3 For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with
iniquity; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue hath muttered
perverseness.
Is it because you don’t hear the cries of the unborn still? YOU
WILL. Someday when your knee bends before your heavenly Father, he’s
going to ask you.. why didn’t you stop it? You had a say in a free
country and you voted for people that promoted murder of my unborn
children...
The mind has difficulty even comprehending 43,000,000 murdered
American babies—let alone envisioning the lost potential for good for
the entire human race. Make no mistake, the “hands that shed innocent
blood” (Proverbs 6:17) will one day face the consequences of their
actions (Ecclesiastes 12:14)
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
A test of a people is how it behaves toward the old. It is easy to
love children. Even tyrants and dictators make a point of being fond
of children. But the affection and care for the old, the incurable,
the helpless are the true gold mines of a culture.
Abraham Joshua Heschel
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua <-- please join
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/messianic_Yehoshua/
http://www.e-sword.net/ Free bible software
http://www.isr-messianic.org/ <- download the scriptures free
http://messianicyehoshua.googlegroups.com/web/RNKJV.zip
Linda Lee
You put on your halo and repeatedly lie that you are tolerant of
others' views, yet you began repeatedly calling me “Whore” when I
refused to stop using the KJV Bible and the words God and Holy and
Lord, as you had insisted I do, and calling me “Murderer” when you
found out I had voted for President Obama. You aren't even sincere
about what you claim to hate, let alone what you claim to believe.
guardian Snow
> > He did tell me he voted for Obama. Obama supports abortion, abortion
> > is murder and both of you voted for a man that encourages murder.
>
> You put on your halo and repeatedly lie that you are tolerant of
> others' views, yet you began repeatedly calling me “Whore” when I
> refused to stop using the KJV Bible and the words God and Holy and
> Lord, as you had insisted I do, and calling me “Murderer” when you
> found out I had voted for President Obama. You aren't even sincere
> about what you claim to hate, let alone what you claim to believe.
Barack Obama’s speech to Planned Parenthood.
At a time when a real war is being fought abroad they would have us
fight cultural wars here at home. But I am absolutely convinced that
culture wars are so nineties; their days are growing dark, it is time
to turn the page. We want a new day here in America. We’re tired about
arguing about the same ole’ stuff. [Applause] And I am convinced we
can win that argument.
We need more programs in our communities like the National Black
Church Initiative which empowers our young people by teaching them
about reproductive health, sex education and teen pregnancy within the
context of the African-American faith tradition.
We need to tackle the tragedy of unintended teen pregnancy. When seven
hundred and fifty thousand teens become pregnant every year, and half
of Latina and black teens will become mothers before reaching their
twenties, it’s not just a public health problem.
If they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby. Well,
the first thing I’d do as President is sign the “Freedom of Choice
Act”. [Applauds] Steve and Pam will tell you that we fought together
in the Illinois State Senate against restrictive choice legislation—
laws just like the federal abortion laws, the federal abortion bans
that are cropping up. I’ve stood up for the freedom of choice in the
United States Senate and I stand by my votes against the confirmation
of Judge Roberts and Samuel Alito [Applause]
With one more vacancy on the Court, we could be looking at a majority
hostile to a woman’s fundamental right to choose for the first time
since Roe versus Wade and that is what is at stake in this election.
There will always be people, many of goodwill, who do not share my
view on the issue of choice. On this fundamental issue, I will not
yield and Planned Parenthood will not yield.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSsFzue-V-I&NR=1
A must see video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPk_Al2hvqs&NR=1
What is the Freedom of Choice Act?
“One component of the Obama abortion agenda, the so-called ‘Freedom of
Choice Act’ (FOCA, S. 1173), is coming under increased scrutiny from
many quarters. The FOCA is the most sweeping piece of pro-abortion
legislation ever proposed in Congress. It is a bill that would
establish a federal “abortion right” broader than Roe v. Wade and, in
the words of the National Organization for Women, ’sweep away hundreds
of anti-abortion laws [and] policies.’”
It reads..
It is the policy of the United States that every woman has the
fundamental right to choose to bear a child, to terminate a pregnancy
prior to fetal viability, or to terminate a pregnancy after fetal
viability.
This Act applies to every Federal, State, and local statute,
ordinance, regulation, administrative order, decision, policy,
practice, or other action enacted, adopted, or implemented before, on,
or after the date of enactment of this Act.
The result is that no longer will states have the ability to pass any
legislation to restrict abortions for any reason including age.
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua
Come post a message please, I'd love to hear from you. While this is
a moderated forum, the only moderation will be to remove spam.
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,
or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of
speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to
assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
o o
/^^^^^7
' ' ,oO))))))))Oo,
,'))))))))))))))), /{
' ,'o ))))))))))))))))={
> ))))))))))))))))={
`, ))))))\ \)))))))={
',))))))))\/)))))' \{
'*O))))))))O*'
Ike E 2009
> In article <hcap87$q2k$1...@news.eternal-september.org>, Ike E 2009 says...
>>
>>
>>"Emma" <em...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
>>
>>>
>>> So if you think the OT laws apply to you, you had better
>>> start keeping them.
>>
>>I didn't say they applied to Christians.
>
> Yes, you did.
>
> Ike quote:
>
> "The laws of the Old Testament DO apply to Christians"
Yes, I did: As the basis of Grace.
>>> Most of the OT laws don't apply to you though.
>>> They apply to Jews. They always applied to Jews only,
>>> and not to non-Jews.
>>
>>Oh, no. They'll be the basis for the judgment of the world.
>
>
> The Jewish dietary laws? You think the world should
> be keeping those?
Jesus said ALL the law.
>>> The moral laws apply to everyone.
>>
>>The WHOLE law applies to everyone.
>
>
> No.
CITE.
> Even in Old Testament times, non-Jews did not
> have to keep all the Jewish laws.
And then the Jews turned "the Lamb" over to the Gentiles for
"strangulation," bring them under the law, AND under the potential for
Grace.
>>> Most of the OT laws apply
>>> to Jews only. There is a difference.
>>
>>Only in your mind.
>>
>>Jesus said otherwise...
>>
>>Mt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or
>>one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till ALL BE FULFILLED.
>>
>>I don't know where you're getting YOUR information from, but I get mine
>>straight from the Bible.
>
> Then where does it say you overcome the law by faith?
You HAVE to be kidding. Just a smattering...
Ac 15:9 And put no difference between us and [the Gentiles], purifying their
hearts by faith.
Ro 3:4b ...yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written,
That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when
thou art judged.
Ro 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his
blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past,
through the forbearance of God...
Ro 3:27-28
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but
by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith
without the deeds of the law.
Ro 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the
righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he
might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not
circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
Ro 4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and
the promise made of none effect...
Ro 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the
promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law,
but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us
all,
Ro 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through
our Lord Jesus Christ:
Ga 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by
the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we
might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law:
for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Ga 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles
among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Ga 3:11-13
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is
evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith:
but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us
from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written,
Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Ga 3:22-25
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by
faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the
faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our
schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of
the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness
which is of God by faith:
1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the
victory that overcometh the world, EVEN OUR FAITH.
1Jo 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that
Jesus is the Son of God?
Re 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the
churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life,
which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
Re 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the
churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Re 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the
churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and
will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no
man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
Re 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works* unto the end, to him
will I give power over the nations:
[Works of the Gospel, not the law]
Re 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I
will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his
name before my Father, and before his angels.
Re 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God,
and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God,
and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh
down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
Re 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne,
even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Re 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God,
and he shall be my son.
Any questions?
If not, I have one for you: Just out of curiosity, where did you hear a
"gospel" wherein they didn't tell you that faith overcomes the law, but the
law necessitates God's grace, hence the Gospel and the law are partners?
Ike
Ike E 2009
"Rod" <spa...@ymail.com> wrote in message
news:hcaqhd$vbu$2...@news.eternal-september.org...
What? Because I didn't respond in the first hour she has "Ike stymied? You
better go back and look again.
Ike
Ike E 2009
> In article <hcaov5$nt3$1...@news.eternal-september.org>, Ike E 2009 says...
>>
>>
>>"Emma" <em...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
>>news:hcao6...@drn.newsguy.com...
>>> In article <hcan5o$auf$1...@news.eternal-september.org>, Ike E 2009 says...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Emma" <em...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>> If the laws were valid for Christians, you would be
>>>>> required to keep them.
>>>>
>>>>Uh, no, Christians OVERCOME the law by FAITH, i.e. "saved by Grace
>>>>through
>>>>faith."
>>>>
>>>
>>> You can't overcome a law by faith; you still have to
>>> keep the moral laws.
>>
>>Cite from the Bible.
>>
>
> You cite from the Bible.
I've BEEN citing from the Bible.
Now where does it say "You still have to keep the moral laws?"
I seem to remember John writing...
1Jo 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.
And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the
righteous:
> You are the one making the
> assertion.
> How can you overcome a law by faith?
The faith is that Jesus overcame the law on our behalf, and we don't put on
OUR righteousness (which is non-existence), but HIS righteousness.
Where DID you learn the Gospel?
> You have to obey the law not to steal, for instance.
> You can't decide not to obey it and overcome it by faith
> instead.
Oh, really? And what happens if you DO break the law not to steal, even in
the most insignificant way, even so much as a paperclip, or someone else's
pencil you happened to put in your pocket unknowingly? Do you automatically
get jettisons from salvation? Does God take back His grace?
You must live in a constant state of fear, for I guarantee that you break
the law every waking moment of your life, for sin isn't just behavior, but
it is the very state we EXIST in, and will continue to exist in until our
death and resurrection (speaking optimistically).
Ike
Ike E 2009
"Terry Cross" <tcro...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6bc180b3-d8ca-485c...@r24g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
[snip]
> This is where the silly laws (blue fringed garments, not mixing
> clothing fibers, stoning neighbors, slaughtering animals to become
> morally pure) are divided from the real laws (not murdering, not
> stealing, not coveting, not harming).
Just because you're IGNORANT doesn't mean they're "silly."
> The silly laws are not inherited by Christians.
...said "Jezebel."
> The real laws are far
> too real and sensible to be recognized by Judaism, which is why
> Judaism rejected Jesus.
The OT DEFINES GOD'S LAW.
You don't get to make up your own, "Jezebel."
Ike
Ike E 2009
On Oct 28, 5:56 pm, "Ike E 2009" <xhermaneicklebe...@gmail.com> wrote:
[snip]
>> No law, no grace; otherwise, what would you need grace FROM?
> We need grace from evil and moral weakness in the face of evil.
Sorry, Jezie, you don't get to make up your own laws. God already did, and
Jesus affirmed THE WHOLE LAW, even the parts you or anyone else are ignorant
about.
Ike
Ike E 2009
"Linda Lee" <lindag...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:8aaf4597-628d-4060...@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 28, 9:39 pm, Emma <e...@newsguy.com> wrote:
[snip]
>> Then where does it say you overcome the law by faith?
> These from the apostle John all imply it:
Hey, Ebionite: Go back and read the question again.
(And the passages from Revelation are about THE DUALISTIC REMNANT TO COME,
NOT YOU.)
Ike
Rod
Don't get upset, Goofy....
--
Evil people delight in their evil lies and think their propensity for
compulsive lying proves they are more intelligent than others.
Linda Lee, describing herself..
Linda Lee
> Ike E 2009 wrote:
> > "Rod" <spa...@ymail.com> wrote in message
> >news:hcaqhd$vbu$2...@news.eternal-september.org...
> >> Emma wrote:
> >>>> "Emma" <e...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
> >>>>news:hcao6...@drn.newsguy.com...
> >>>>> In article <hcan5o$au...@news.eternal-september.org>, Ike E 2009
> >>>>> says...
> >>>>>> "Emma" <e...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>>> If the laws were valid for Christians, you would be
> >>>>>>> required to keep them.
> >>>>>> Uh, no, Christians OVERCOME the law by FAITH, i.e. "saved by Grace
> >>>>>> through
> >>>>>> faith."
>
> >>>>> You can't overcome a law by faith; you still have to
> >>>>> keep the moral laws.
> >>>> Cite from the Bible.
>
> >>> You cite from the Bible. You are the one making the
> >>> assertion.
> >>> How can you overcome a law by faith?
>
> >>> You have to obey the law not to steal, for instance.
> >>> You can't decide not to obey it and overcome it by faith
> >>> instead.
>
> >> Well Emma...it appears that you have Ike stymied...
>
> > What? Because I didn't respond in the first hour she has "Ike stymied? You
> > better go back and look again.
>
> > Ike
>
> Don't get upset, Goofy....
>
> --
> Evil people delight in their evil lies and think their propensity for
> compulsive lying proves they are more intelligent than others.
>
> Linda Lee, describing herself..
Why do you lie, Rod? You copied that from my reply to Qadosh who was
referring to 'guardian Snow'/"SnowJob".
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.bible.prophecy/msg/82aab8c51343c14d
-
Qadosh wrote:
> People like Michael Christ, SnowJob, are attention seeking snobs.
> They seek a validation in the support of there own self-delusion.
> It makes them 2 superior. They are like the analogy of Jonestown.
> They think everybody is stupider then they are.
Linda Lee
> "Linda Lee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote in message
>
> news:8aaf4597-628d-4060...@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Oct 28, 9:39 pm, Emma <e...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> >> Then where does it say you overcome the law by faith?
> > These from the apostle John all imply it:
>
> Hey, Ebionite: Go back and read the question again.
>
Read it; it is through our faith in the Messiah and through the
indwelling Holy Spirit that we are able to overcome the Devil and the
world (refrain from sin).
Do you know what 'walking with God' or 'walking in the Spirit'
signifies. Guess not. It is referring to our behavior, righteous
behavior made possible by God's Spirit. Noah and Enoch walked with God
and were righteous through belief in God as their Saviour and
obedience to the Commandments known to them.
As your favorite apostle puts it:
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in
Christ Jesus, WHO ***WALK*** NOT AFTER THE FLESH, BUT AFTER THE
SPIRIT.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made
me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through
the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh,
and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 THAT THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE LAW MIGHT BE FULFILLED IN US,
WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH, BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the
flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually
minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not
subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But YE ARE NOT IN THE FLESH, BUT IN THE SPIRIT, if so be that
the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of
Christ, he is NONE OF HIS.
And try to quit lying that I am an Ebionite.
Linda Lee
>
> news:8aaf4597-628d-4060...@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Oct 28, 9:39 pm, Emma <e...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> >> Then where does it say you overcome the law by faith?
> > These from the apostle John all imply it:
>
> Hey, Ebionite: Go back and read the question again.
Funny you should say that since we both quoted I John 5:4, but you
conveniently omitted verses 1-2:
Emma
Linda Lee says...
>
>On Oct 28, 9:39=A0pm, Emma <e...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> Then where does it say you overcome the law by faith?
>
>
>These from the apostle John all imply it:
>
>Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep
>the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Following Jesus and obeying the commandments? How does that imply
overcoming the law?
>1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we
>love God, and keep his commandments.
>1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments:
>and his commandments are not grievous.
>1Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this
>is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
Overcoming the world is not the same as overcoming the law though.
>Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we
>beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,)
>full of grace and truth.
>Joh 1:15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of
>whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he
>was before me.
>Joh 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for
>grace.
>Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by
>Jesus Christ.
>
Moses and Jesus brought different messages for different
peoples.
Jewish law never applied to non-Jews. The only laws that ever
applied to non-Jews (the moral laws) must still be obeyed.
Rod
What I've seen from where I'm standing, it isn't a lie. Linda, if you
were able to see yourself from the eyes of other people, you would drop
dead from the shock! So go on foolin' yourself into thinking that you
are godly and clean, but you'll never see it because you want to remain
blissfully ignorant. Congratulations, your wish appears to have been
granted!
> You copied that from my reply to Qadosh
Why are you following me around Linda ? I didn't post to you
with the same drivel and spam that is in your replies to me!
I've no intention of spamming you, and every intention of going on
without you....and I haven't be to happy about that.
> who was
> referring to 'guardian Snow'/"SnowJob".
Well slap my little hand! I plagiarized something from
you...and..and..it fits you to the "T"!
The title snowjob really fits you much better than it does Snow. How
long now have you been conning the Christians into believing that you
are one of them ? Four years ? More ? Don't you realize that your
charade was over the minute you began acting possessed?
Ike E 2009
[snip]
> Jewish law never applied to non-Jews.
Yes, it did: It started applying the moment the Jews handed The Lamb over to
the Gentiles for "strangulation," making the sacrifice theirs, but also
bringing the Gentiles under the condemnation of the law.
And God will judge the whole world by the law of Moses...
Ike
Ike E 2009
> On Oct 29, 4:47 am, "Ike E 2009" <xhermaneicklebe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> "Linda Lee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote in message
>
>> news:8aaf4597-628d-4060...@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
>
>>> On Oct 28, 9:39 pm, Emma <e...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
>> [snip]
>
>>>> Then where does it say you overcome the law by faith?
>>> These from the apostle John all imply it:
>
>> Hey, Ebionite: Go back and read the question again.
>
> Read it; it is through our faith in the Messiah and through the
> indwelling Holy Spirit that we are able to overcome the Devil and the
> world (refrain from sin).
Notice how the fraud has to add the false statement "(refrain from sin),"
which is the open door to legalism.
> Do you know what 'walking with God' or 'walking in the Spirit'
> signifies.
You sure don't, otherwise you wouldn't be bearing false witness against
Jesus, Paul, and the prophets.
> Guess not. It is referring to our behavior, righteous
> behavior made possible by God's Spirit.
There is no such thing, and that's NOT what Jesus said salvation was based
on...
Lk 18:9-14
And [Jesus] spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves
that they were righteous, and despised others:
Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the
other a publican.
The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that
I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this
publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his
eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a
sinner.
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the
other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that
humbleth himself shall be exalted.
> Noah and Enoch walked with God
> and were righteous through belief... in God as their Saviour and
> obedience to the Commandments known to them.
Notice how the fraud has to ADD to the story: Faith? Yes. "OBEDIENCE TO THE
COMMANDMENTS?" NO.
> As your favorite apostle puts it:
> Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in
> Christ Jesus, WHO ***WALK*** NOT AFTER THE FLESH, BUT AFTER THE
> SPIRIT.
> Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made
> me free from the law of sin and death.
Once again, Linda Liar reveals she can't read: "...for the law of the Spirit
of Life IN JESUS CHRIST hath made me FREE from the law of SIN and DEATH
(which Paul explains elsewhere in Romans is the death caused by the CURSE of
the law).
> Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through
> the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh,
> and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
> Rom 8:4 THAT THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE LAW MIGHT BE FULFILLED IN US,
> WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH, BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT.
"IN US," not "BY US."
See how this Pharisaical liar turns the story around by false teaching?
> Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the
> flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
> Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually
> minded is life and peace.
> Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not
> subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
> Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
> Rom 8:9 But YE ARE NOT IN THE FLESH, BUT IN THE SPIRIT, if so be that
> the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of
> Christ, he is NONE OF HIS.
The funniest part of this is the fraud who rails against Paul trying to use
Paul to support her position when Paul taught the same Gospel of salvation
by Grace (and NOT "law-keeping") through Faith AS JESUS.
> And try to quit lying that I am an Ebionite.
Well, I did leave stuff out: You're a Pharisaical, Essene, Gnostic, Ebonite
Jezebel who teaches whatever her she-beast spirit wills itself to teach JUST
SO LONG AS IT ISN'T THE TRUTH.
There? Is that better?
Ike
Emma
>
>
>"Emma" <em...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>> So if you think the OT laws apply to you, you had better
>>>> start keeping them.
>>>
>>>I didn't say they applied to Christians.
>>
>> Yes, you did.
>>
>> Ike quote:
>>
>> "The laws of the Old Testament DO apply to Christians"
>
>Yes, I did: As the basis of Grace.
What do you mean by that? They apply; yet they
don't apply?? You're not making sense.
The Jewish dietary laws apply to you, yet they
don't apply?
So then, to get back to our original discussion,
if the OT laws don't apply (apart from in some
non-existent sense), then the laws about health
and sickness don't apply either.
>>>> Most of the OT laws don't apply to you though.
>>>> They apply to Jews. They always applied to Jews only,
>>>> and not to non-Jews.
>>>
>>>Oh, no. They'll be the basis for the judgment of the world.
>>
>>
>> The Jewish dietary laws? You think the world should
>> be keeping those?
>
>Jesus said ALL the law.
Jesus was talking to Jews.
Non-Jews never had to keep the Jewish law
>>>
>>>The WHOLE law applies to everyone.
>>
>>
>> No.
>
>CITE.
You cite.
It's your point.
>> Even in Old Testament times, non-Jews did not
>> have to keep all the Jewish laws.
>
>And then the Jews turned "the Lamb" over to the Gentiles for
>"strangulation," bring them under the law, AND under the potential for
>Grace.
What is that supposed to mean??
>>>
>>>I don't know where you're getting YOUR information from, but I get mine
>>>straight from the Bible.
>>
>> Then where does it say you overcome the law by faith?
>
>You HAVE to be kidding. Just a smattering...
>
>Ac 15:9 And put no difference between us and [the Gentiles], purifying their
>hearts by faith.
Having faith in Jesus and God doesn't mean you no longer have
to keep the moral law.
I agree that you don't have to keep the Jewish law, but then
the Jewish law never applied to non-Jews.
None of that says that you no longer have to keep the
bits of the Law that apply to you.
And about works... the Book of James was hated by Luther.
He wanted to tear it out of the Bible because it
talks so much about works.
>If not, I have one for you: Just out of curiosity, where did you hear a
>"gospel" wherein they didn't tell you that faith overcomes the law
There's only one gospel.
Emma
>>>> keep the moral laws.
>>>
>>>Cite from the Bible.
>>>
>>
>> You cite from the Bible.
>
>I've BEEN citing from the Bible.
>
>Now where does it say "You still have to keep the moral laws?"
So you think it's okay to break them all?
>> You are the one making the
>> assertion.
>> How can you overcome a law by faith?
>
>The faith is that Jesus overcame the law on our behalf, and we don't put on
>OUR righteousness (which is non-existence), but HIS righteousness.
Jesus kept the law and we have to keep it too.
But only the parts of the law that apply to us.
Not the Jewish law.
>> You have to obey the law not to steal, for instance.
>> You can't decide not to obey it and overcome it by faith
>> instead.
>
>Oh, really?
Yes, really.
So you're suggesting that the gospel teaches us to ignore the
moral laws?
>And what happens if you DO break the law not to steal, even in
>the most insignificant way, even so much as a paperclip, or someone else's
>pencil you happened to put in your pocket unknowingly? Do you automatically
>get jettisons from salvation? Does God take back His grace?
God isn't pleased.
Are you more concerned about your own salvation than pleasing God?
guardian Snow
> The funniest part of this is the fraud who rails against Paul trying to use
> Paul to support her position when Paul taught the same Gospel of salvation
> by Grace (and NOT "law-keeping") through Faith AS JESUS.
>
> > And try to quit lying that I am an Ebionite.
>
> Well, I did leave stuff out: You're a Pharisaical, Essene, Gnostic, Ebonite
> Jezebel who teaches whatever her she-beast spirit wills itself to teach JUST
> SO LONG AS IT ISN'T THE TRUTH.
>
> There? Is that better?
>
> Ike
Hello Ike. I wanted to clarify something with you for my own
understanding... the reason that you object to Linda's position is
because she claims to be a Christian when clearly she is not, correct?
I tend to think it has little or nothing to do with the fact that she
is a female... It seems to me that you haven't argued about my belief
because I clearly state that I am "Messianic" and not a Christian.
guardian Snow
> >The faith is that Jesus overcame the law on our behalf, and we don't put on
> >OUR righteousness (which is non-existence), but HIS righteousness.
>
> Jesus kept the law and we have to keep it too.
> But only the parts of the law that apply to us.
> Not the Jewish law.
I would tend to agree with this statement if by "law" what you mean
are the Ten Commandments but I would point out that "Jewish law" is an
incorrect understanding of the Torah in that YAHWEH is said to be the
author of many laws. Moses is also said to have written many laws and
so it would be more correct to say in your terms, "Gods laws and Moses
laws" which were written as, "a way of life" according to scriptures.
Pro 6:23 For the command is a lamp, And the Torah a light, And
reproofs of discipline a way of life,
Consider the lamp when reading Revelation:
Rev 18:23 “And the light of a lamp shall not shine in you any more at
all. And the voice of bridegroom and bride shall not be heard in you
any more at all. For your merchants were the great ones of the earth,
for by your drug sorcery all the nations were led astray.
Ike E 10/29/09
"Emma" <em...@newsguy.com> wrote in message news:hccu...@drn.newsguy.com...
> In article <hcbjqk$usm$1...@news.eternal-september.org>, Ike E 2009 says...
>>
>>
>>"Emma" <em...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>
>>>>> So if you think the OT laws apply to you, you had better
>>>>> start keeping them.
>>>>
>>>>I didn't say they applied to Christians.
>>>
>>> Yes, you did.
>>>
>>> Ike quote:
>>>
>>> "The laws of the Old Testament DO apply to Christians"
>>
>>Yes, I did: As the basis of Grace.
>
>
> What do you mean by that?
I MEAN what I SAID (half a dozen times now): The LAW necessitates GRACE, and
Grace OVERCOMES the LAW.
Ga 3:24-27
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we
might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer
under a schoolmaster.
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many
of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is
neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
> They apply; yet they
> don't apply?? You're not making sense.
No, you're just a bit slow on the uptake.
The LAW defines sin--ALL of it.
That makes THE LAW the "schoolmaster" that shows us what we are.
Enter the Gospel of Grace that OVERCOMES the law, the same law which
condemns EVERYONE.
> The Jewish dietary laws apply to you, yet they
> don't apply?
>
> So then, to get back to our original discussion,
> if the OT laws don't apply (apart from in some
> non-existent sense), then the laws about health
> and sickness don't apply either.
>
>
>>>>> Most of the OT laws don't apply to you though.
>>>>> They apply to Jews. They always applied to Jews only,
>>>>> and not to non-Jews.
>>>>
>>>>Oh, no. They'll be the basis for the judgment of the world.
>>>
>>>
>>> The Jewish dietary laws? You think the world should
>>> be keeping those?
>>
>>Jesus said ALL the law.
NO, Jesus was talking to EVERYONE...
>
>
> Jesus was talking to Jews.
> Non-Jews never had to keep the Jewish law
>
>
>
>>>>
>>>>The WHOLE law applies to everyone.
>>>
>>>
>>> No.
>>
>>CITE.
>
> You cite.
> It's your point.
I've BEEN citing, all along.
>>> Even in Old Testament times, non-Jews did not
>>> have to keep all the Jewish laws.
>>
>>And then the Jews turned "the Lamb" over to the Gentiles for
>>"strangulation," bring them under the law, AND under the potential for
>>Grace.
>
> What is that supposed to mean??
Under the temple procedure for the sacrifices, a man had to bring his
sacrifice for his family to the priests, who "laid hands" on the animal, and
the owner had to strangle it, making it HIS sacrifice.
When the Jewish priests "laid hands" on "the Lamb" (a.k.a. Jesus) and turned
Him over to the Romans (a.k.a. the "Gentiles") for "strangulation" (a very
apt description of crucifixion), the priest inadvertently brought the
GENTILES into the fold, making them subject to the law, AND handed over the
Gospel of Grace to them at the same time.
But the two--the law and grace--always go together.
The law defines what it is we need grace from, and Grace overcomes the law.
>>>>I don't know where you're getting YOUR information from, but I get mine
>>>>straight from the Bible.
>>>
>>> Then where does it say you overcome the law by faith?
>>
>>You HAVE to be kidding. Just a smattering...
>>
>>Ac 15:9 And put no difference between us and [the Gentiles], purifying
>>their
>>hearts by faith.
>
>
> Having faith in Jesus and God doesn't mean you no longer have
> to keep the moral law.
Once you start saying that anyone HAD to keep ANY manner of law, you've
declared that God's Grace isn't sufficient, and brought the weight of the
law down on your head.
> I agree that you don't have to keep the Jewish law, but then
> the Jewish law never applied to non-Jews.
CITE, 'cause Jesus and the boys said DIFFERENT...
Ro 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by
sin; and so death passed upon ALL MEN, for that ALL have sinned...
Ga 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded ALL under sin, that the promise by
faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
WHAT scripture? The only scripture Paul knew was THE LAW and THE PROPHETS,
a.k.a. the OLD TESTAMENT. And by the LAW ALL men are condemned in sin.
Ga 3:1-5
O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the
truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth,
crucified among you? This only would I learn of you: Received ye the Spirit
by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish?
having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Have ye
suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles
among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
> And about works... the Book of James was hated by Luther.
> He wanted to tear it out of the Bible because it
> talks so much about works.
Yes, this wasn't one of Luther's brighter moments.
What Luther misunderstood was that righteous works will proceed FROM the
Gospel of Grace, PROVING the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the believer,
and before God.
But this is NOT "law keeping," where one says "I have to do this" or "I
can't do that," but it proceeds from a healthy respect for the righteousness
of God and our desire (albeit unrealized) to be LIKE Him.
>>If not, I have one for you: Just out of curiosity, where did you hear a
>>"gospel" wherein they didn't tell you that faith overcomes the law
>
> There's only one gospel.
You didn't answer my question: WHERE did you hear an alleged "Gospel"
wherein they DIDN'T tell you that faith overcomes the law, and Grace is
necessary BECAUSE of the law?
Ike
Ike E 10/29/09
> In article <hcbkg7$3mr$1...@news.eternal-september.org>, Ike E 2009 says...
>>
>>
>>"Emma" <em...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You can't overcome a law by faith; you still have to
>>>>> keep the moral laws.
>>>>
>>>>Cite from the Bible.
>>>>
>>>
>>> You cite from the Bible.
>>
>>I've BEEN citing from the Bible.
>>
>>Now where does it say "You still have to keep the moral laws?"
>
>
> So you think it's okay to break them all?
HAVE YOU EVER EVEN READ THE BIBLE?
Paul dealt with THIS issue, TOO...
Rom 3:3-26
For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of
God without effect?
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is
written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest
overcome when thou art judged.
But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall
we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
God forbid: for then how shall God JUDGE THE WORLD?
For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his
glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? and not rather, (as we be
slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that
good may come? (whose damnation is just).
What then? are we better than they?
No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that
they are all under sin, as it is written, There is none righteous, no, not
one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable;
there is none that doeth good, no, not one.Their throat is an open
sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is
under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet
are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the
way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who
are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may
become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no
flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
But now the righteousness of God WITHOUT THE LAW is manifested, being
witnessed by the law and the prophets, even the righteousness of God which
is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for
there is no difference--for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of
God--being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in
Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in
his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are
past, through the forbearance of God, to declare, I say, at this time his
righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which
believeth in Jesus.
>>> You are the one making the
>>> assertion.
>>> How can you overcome a law by faith?
>>
>>The faith is that Jesus overcame the law on our behalf, and we don't put
>>on
>>OUR righteousness (which is non-existent), but HIS righteousness.
>
> Jesus kept the law and we have to keep it too.
NO. Jesus kept the law ON OUR BEHALF: That's "putting on His righteousness."
WHERE did you get your cockamamie teachings from?
> But only the parts of the law that apply to us.
> Not the Jewish law.
CITE.
>>> You have to obey the law not to steal, for instance.
>>> You can't decide not to obey it and overcome it by faith
>>> instead.
>>
>>Oh, really?
>
> Yes, really.
Then you are condemned in your sins, for you say God's Grace isn't
sufficient.
> So you're suggesting that the gospel teaches us to ignore the
> moral laws?
Go back up and read what I quoted...
>>And what happens if you DO break the law not to steal, even in
>>the most insignificant way, even so much as a paperclip, or someone else's
>>pencil you happened to put in your pocket unknowingly? Do you
>>automatically
>>get jettisons from salvation? Does God take back His grace?
>
> God isn't pleased.
Ah, no, under YOUR false teachings, YOU'VE CONDEMNED YOURSELF.
YOU said Christians HAVE to keep the law, which means if you break the law
even one little bit, you've CONDEMNED YOURSELF under THE WHOLE LAW.
There's no "halfway here," or "halfway there:" Either you're RELYING ON
GOD'S GRACE or YOU'RE NOT.
> Are you more concerned about your own salvation than pleasing God?
That was an asinine question from a person who is TOTALLY ignorant of the
works of God.
Ike
Linda Lee
> In article <8aaf4597-628d-4060-9436-9f7739cde...@d34g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>,
I agree with that if by "moral laws" you mean the Ten Commandments and
having compassion for the needy (the Messiah taught those two things
plus faith in him were necessary for eternal life in Matt. 19:16-21).
The 613 commands of the law of Moses never applied to Gentile
believers.
>
> --
> ..EMMA..http://www.britsattheirbest.com/http://www.cfoi.co.uk/
Linda Lee
Drop the act. It is you who has been following me around; I've only
posted to you in reply to your accusing posts to me or to posts in
which you were gossiping about me this past few months. This
allegation of stalking against those you stalk is another tactic of
your buddy Snowjob. You are learning well.
Snowjob says to Rod, "You will find it is a common tactic to accuse
other people of the very thing you are guilty of... Excellent
thoughts." -
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.bible/msg/0adfc17f981beec2
Snowjob's advice to you of methods he considers "Excellent Thoughts"
reminds me sometimes of the demons in C. S. Lewis' 'The Screwtape
Letters', the senior demon teaching the junior demon how to harass
Christians and cause them to sin.
>
> I've no intention of spamming you, and every intention of going on
> without you....and I haven't be to happy about that.
>
> > who was
> > referring to 'guardian Snow'/"SnowJob".
>
> Well slap my little hand! I plagiarized something from
> you...and..and..it fits you to the "T"!
Plagiarism is theft. And plagiarism is another of your buddy Snowjob's
tactics. But at least you don't copy entire blocks of text.
>
> The title snowjob really fits you much better than it does Snow. How
> long now have you been conning the Christians into believing that you
> are one of them ? Four years ? More ? Don't you realize that your
> charade was over the minute you began acting possessed?
>
> --
> Evil people delight in their evil lies and think their propensity for
> compulsive lying proves they are more intelligent than others.
>
> Linda Lee, describing Snowjob and his protege Rod.
Linda Lee
> On Oct 29, 4:52 pm, Linda Lee <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > > Doesn't matter Rod... You are entitled to your understanding of the
> > > world and you are entitled to disagree with me:) You are free to
> > > express your point of view to me and while I may see your point as
> > > misinformed, you would see mine the same way... it doesn't mean that I
> > > would suddenly turn into a stalker spamming garbage at you:)
> > > I respect diverse opinions... and I respect individuals..
> > > He did tell me he voted for Obama. Obama supports abortion, abortion
> > > is murder and both of you voted for a man that encourages murder.
>
> > You put on your halo and repeatedly lie that you are tolerant of
> > others' views, yet you began repeatedly calling me “Whore” when I
> > refused to stop using the KJV Bible and the words God and Holy and
> > Lord, as you had insisted I do, and calling me “Murderer” when you
> > found out I had voted for President Obama. You aren't even sincere
> > about what you claim to hate, let alone what you claim to believe.
>
>
Your beliefs about abortion were not the issue; the issue was your
hypocrisy in following me around for months condemning me as a
"murderer" for voting for Obama while you excuse your buddy Rod and
say you're always tolerant of others' views.
You put on your halo and repeatedly lie that you are tolerant of
others' views, yet you began repeatedly calling me “Whore” when I
refused to stop using the KJV Bible and the words God and Holy and
Lord, as you had insisted I do, and calling me “Murderer” when you
found out I had voted for President Obama. You aren't even sincere
about what you claim to hate, let alone what you claim to believe.
Americans, including women, are free to vote for the candidate of
their choice, whether you like it or not, and there were a lot more
issues at stake than whether or not women should have freedom of
choice in obtaining abortions. And this forum is *supposed to be* for
discussion about religion, not about your political views.
Rod
Ha ha ha! If you aren't following me, then you wouldn't
presently have found me to make your drivel filled replies..
> I've only
> posted to you in reply to your accusing posts to me
Where you found me by way of my posts, I was able to track you
by the trails of drivel and defaming posts made to snow. You
truly are the Drivel Queen of Usenet.
or to posts in
> which you were gossiping about me this past few months. This
> allegation of stalking against those you stalk is another tactic of
> your buddy Snowjob. You are learning well.
>
> Snowjob says to Rod, "You will find it is a common tactic to accuse
> other people of the very thing you are guilty of... Excellent
> thoughts." -
> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.bible/msg/0adfc17f981beec2
>
> Snowjob's advice to you of methods he considers "Excellent Thoughts"
> reminds me sometimes of the demons in C. S. Lewis' 'The Screwtape
> Letters', the senior demon teaching the junior demon how to harass
> Christians and cause them to sin.
>
>> I've no intention of spamming you, and every intention of going on
>> without you....and I haven't be to happy about that.
>>
>>> who was
>>> referring to 'guardian Snow'/"SnowJob".
>> Well slap my little hand! I plagiarized something from
>> you...and..and..it fits you to the "T"!
>
> Plagiarism is theft. And plagiarism is another of your buddy Snowjob's
> tactics. But at least you don't copy entire blocks of text.
And including a portion of another persons post in your reply IS
theft, so you are as guilty.
>
>> The title snowjob really fits you much better than it does Snow. How
>> long now have you been conning the Christians into believing that you
>> are one of them ? Four years ? More ? Don't you realize that your
>> charade was over the minute you began acting possessed?
>>
>> --
>> Evil people delight in their evil lies and think their propensity for
>> compulsive lying proves they are more intelligent than others.
>>
>> Linda Lee, describing herself.
>
Linda Lee
> On Oct 30, 7:18 am, "Ike E 2009" <xhermaneicklebe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The funniest part of this is the fraud who rails against Paul trying to use
> > Paul to support her position when Paul taught the same Gospel of salvation
> > by Grace (and NOT "law-keeping") through Faith AS JESUS.
>
> > > And try to quit lying that I am an Ebionite.
>
> > Well, I did leave stuff out: You're a Pharisaical, Essene, Gnostic, Ebonite
> > Jezebel who teaches whatever her she-beast spirit wills itself to teach JUST
> > SO LONG AS IT ISN'T THE TRUTH.
>
> > There? Is that better?
>
> > Ike
>
> Hello Ike. I wanted to clarify something with you for my own
> understanding...
> the reason that you object toLinda'sposition is
LOL. You are so sickeningly devious (and transparent). So you see my
now standard reply to Ike's attack coming, huh?
> because she claims to be a Christian when clearly she is not, correct?
Christians believe in Christ as God incarnate as our only Saviour;
they don't have to 'believe in' the false apostle Paul in order to be
CHRISTians, so I definitely AM a Christian.
>
> I tend to think it has little or nothing to do with the fact that she
> is a female... It seems to me that you haven't argued about my belief
> because I clearly state that I am "Messianic" and not a Christian.
You don't hold the views of ANY Messianics, since you deny the
Messiah's functions in every way; you're simply anti-Christ and anti-
Christians. What you have had in common with Lying Ike for a year is
simply your hatred of me and the frustrated blatant desire of both of
you to control what I believe and preach about Christ. As for me, I
can't stand hypocritical liars, and your present trinity of satans/
accusers, you, Rod, and Ike are all hypocritical liars who attack
Christians on a daily basis.
And here is my standard reply to you, antichrist hypocrite Snowjob:
Neither you nor your male chauvinist buddy Ike really care about or
believe what you preach.
Ike lies about what I believe (falsely claiming that I deny the deity
of the Messiah and that I claim we are able to obey the Ten
Commandments without the help of Christ's righteousness), but
hypocritically exempts you Snowjob whom he knows DOES deny the deity
of the Messiah and falsely claims we should be able to and must obey
the Ten Commandments of our own will.
You, like the hypocritical little satan that you are, accuse
Christians daily, whining about others' treatment of you while you
mistreat them being your favorite past-time, calling them names and
judging them that they are judgmental of others, yet you exempt your
buddy, the self-professed Christian Ike, who is as judgmental as they
come and adds to that fault by repeatedly and deliberately giving
false witness about others, lying about what others believe and
attacking them on a daily basis, calling everyone filthy names. Then
you put on your halo and repeatedly lie that you are tolerant of
others' views, yet you began repeatedly calling me “Whore” when I
refused to stop using the KJV Bible and the words God and Holy and
Lord, as you had insisted I do, and calling me “Murderer” when you
found out I had voted for President Obama.
You aren't even sincere about what you claim to hate, let alone what
you claim to believe. The only things you two have in common is that
you are both children of the Devil, control-freak male chauvinists,
liars, and hypocrites who don't really give a damn about the
Scriptures you claim to preach.
Linda Lee
> "LindaLee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote in message
>
> news:d2984622-4a13-40d0...@s21g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Oct 29, 4:47 am, "Ike E 2009" <xhermaneicklebe...@gmail.com> wrote:
Neither you nor your male chauvinist buddy Snowjob really care about
or believe what you preach.
You Ike lie about what I believe (falsely claiming that I deny the
deity of the Messiah and that I claim we are able to obey the Ten
Commandments without the help of Christ's righteousness), but
hypocritically exempts your buddy Snowjob whom you know DOES deny the
deity of the Messiah and falsely claims we should be able to and must
obey the Ten Commandments of our own will.
You, like the hypocritical little satan that you are, repeatedly and
deliberately give false witness about others, lying about what others
believe and attacking them on a daily basis, calling everyone filthy
names. The only one you seem to exempt from your daily attacks is your
male chauvinist buddy Snowjob who joins you in accusing Christians
daily, calling them names and hypocritically judging them that they
are judgmental of others.
guardian Snow
> > Why are you following me around Linda ? I didn't post to you
> > with the same drivel and spam that is in your replies to me!
>
> Drop the act. It is you who has been following me around; I've only
> posted to you in reply to your accusing posts to me or to posts in
> which you were gossiping about me this past few months. This
> allegation of stalking against those you stalk is another tactic of
> your buddy Snowjob. You are learning well.
>
> Snowjob says to Rod, "You will find it is a common tactic to accuse
> other people of the very thing you are guilty of... Excellent
> thoughts."
Which is exactly what you do. You STALK people that don't want to
talk to you and then as we see here, you claim they follow you around
when they don't post in threads you start, you post in threads other
people start. It's rare you ever start a thread so you must have a
plan having just started a thread cross posting to all the same
boards. You are so transparent and insane.
You can read this the first time or the hundredth time this gets
spammed back at you Linda but this is it.. I’m done with you.
Rev 22:11 “He who does wrong, let him do more wrong; he who is filthy,
let him be more filthy; he who is righteous, let him be more
righteous; he who is set-apart, let him be more set-apart.
Dear very SICK, DEMENTED STALKER JEZEBEL. Please feel free to end
this boring spam war at any time and agree to actually follow the
teachings of the Messiah...
What this means is that you go your way in peace and make your post..
I go my way and make my post and we have no need to ever speak to each
other ever again...
You see, I am not the one that is in love with you.. you are the one
that is in love with me and this is why you can't let go of posting to
me , YOU ARE OBSESSED WITH GETTING A SNOWJOB that you aren't getting.
I really do not think it is too much to ask that you keep your posting
to other people and not speak of me on a daily bases in your anal
retentive, boring accusations.
This is not my first spam war as you well KNOW. I’ve been in these on
your side trying to help fend off people just a psychotic as you like
CARL. I’ve patiently asked you many times to stop your attacks on me
and even when you’re not talking to me, you’re talking about me. You
are obsessed with ME, not your deity, not obeying any so called
proclaimed “spirit” that you clearly do not possess unless you’re
claiming a demon.
If you need a confession, this is it: I do not like you. I have no
desire to share your dogma, speak to you or even know anything of you.
Look, I get it that your this needy person who thinks that if you call
people Chauvinist, that people might think this has anything with you
being a female but you know it doesn’t.. It’s about you showing a tiny
bit of restraint and not attacking me on a daily bases as you have
every time you post for the past YEAR.
It probably is hard for you to understand, given that maybe you
thought I was a friend of yours while you went around behaving like
the witch that you are… the reality is that people have a right to
post without being attacked and that is why I sided with you when Carl
spam attacked you.
I can agree to not post in threads you start and I can agree to NEVER
mention you again and honestly if I never heard from you again, that
would greatly please me but I respect that you have the right to post,
unlike you. I respect that you have a freedom of speech, JUST LIKE I
DO.
You do not have to agree with me but I do ask that you let me be.
I realize that this is probably your idea of a cry for help.. I
cannot give it to you.. seek professional help or get somebody else
that is willing to speak with you to help you so badly need.
I realize that you are jealous of the fact that nobody listens to you
are cares about you… that Ike tells you what a witch you are… What
makes you think I disagree or agree with him? Why are you trying to
associate us? Because you are jealous, which really is a sad site
because…
We don’t agree on dogma, we can’t communicate like civil people, why
not just do one simple thing and end this stupid harassment NOW
instead of ten years from now or whenever enough people complain?
Is it that hard for you to just leave me alone? Are you so possessed
by evil spirits that you can’t simply follow those teachings you swear
you follow instead of just falsely accusing every person you talk to
on a daily bases?
As to my speaking on the dogma of Christianity, I do not attack
individuals, I speak of an entire belief system and this is my right
to do so.
You on the other hand have made this VERY PERSONAL and so, I see it as
completely different. If you want to speak about how evil “Messianic”
faith is.. be my guest.. have at it. I know that the truth prevails
and I have no fear of anything you have to say about my system of
beliefs.
Your primary problem is that you still insist on being identified as a
Christian because you feel a need to conform to that belief system in
some way or form but the reality is that Christians believe Apostle
Paul and so, you are in denial of what you are by Christian standards,
a heretic.
Now, since I am Messianic, this does not bother me in the slightest.
It doesn’t bother me to be labeled “anti Christ” either because I know
the truth… I honor my Messiah’s teachings by doing my best to do what
is right and I don’t just pick and choose which of the scriptures I
keep, I keep them all that speak according to the Torah of My ELOHIM
YAHWEH EL SHADDAI.
I get it that you pretend to reject Paul and you also reject Moses
even though you deny this fact! You deny the name of YAHWEH every
chance you get… I can live with that.. I spoke my peace, I’m done with
you and no more communication between us is ever needed, wanted or
desired in any way shape or form.
I don’t want you to apologize, I don’t want your forgiveness, I DON’T
NEED IT. You can carry your hatred with you until you rot in your
grave or… you can let it go, it’s all your choice.. everything is your
choice.. will it end now?
Examining the reality of what I have come to know about Linda Lee is
that she rejects the entire bible. To her, the bible is something she
can use to ATTACK OTHER PEOPLE but she has no need to actually put
into practice the teachings of the Messiah herself. She does this
because it is really her desire to spread her hatred. She hates men
and exhibits many traits of a Lesbian, where all men are pigs and she
is a victim of male aggression when in reality, she is the person that
institutes aggression on a daily bases...
If not over "the divinity of Christ" she has railed about "murdering
false apostle Paul" for YEARS now attacking every person that dares to
attempt to speak with her on the topic.
She rejects Moses, she rejects Paul and she pays lip service to her
supposed deity Jesus. She claims her deity preached the commandments
but then later says that one can't keep the Ten Commandments and so it
must be by "grace" that she is entitled to her claims. So while she
rails against Paul, she closely adhere to his doctrine in practice and
only disagrees with his "anti feminist" statements about woman
learning in silence.
Linda Lee
> LindaLeewrote:
> >>> Why do you lie, Rod?
> >> were able to see yourself from the eyes of other people, you would drop
> >> dead from the shock! So go on foolin' yourself into thinking that you
> >> are godly and clean, but you'll never see it because you want to remain
> >> blissfully ignorant. Congratulations, your wish appears to have been
> >> granted!
>
> >>> You copied that from my reply to Qadosh
> >> with the same drivel and spam that is in your replies to me!
>
> > Drop the act. It is you who has been following me around;
>
> Ha ha ha! If you aren't following me, then you wouldn't
> presently have found me to make your drivel filled replies..
>
> > I've only
> > posted to you in reply to your accusing posts to me
>
> Where you found me by way of my posts, I was able to track you
> by the trails
So now you admit you "track me". You don't make much sense Rod, unless
one assumes you're just lying.
> of drivel and defaming posts made to snow. You
> truly are the Drivel Queen of Usenet.
>
> or to posts in
>
>
>
> > which you were gossiping about me this past few months. This
> > allegation of stalking against those you stalk is another tactic of
> > your buddy Snowjob. You are learning well.
>
> > Snowjob says to Rod, "You will find it is a common tactic to accuse
> > other people of the very thing you are guilty of... Excellent
> > thoughts." -
> >http://groups.google.com/group/alt.bible/msg/0adfc17f981beec2
>
> > Snowjob's advice to you of methods he considers "Excellent Thoughts"
> > reminds me sometimes of the demons in C. S. Lewis' 'The Screwtape
> > Letters', the senior demon teaching the junior demon how to harass
> > Christians and cause them to sin.
>
> >> I've no intention of spamming you, and every intention of going on
> >> without you....and I haven't be to happy about that.
I see that you're not happy. I get it Rod. It's nothing personal; you
just can't play both sides of the fence on this one. You do not
understand everything about the Scriptures or about me, and so you
judge my disdain for Snowjob and my opposition to his false teachings
about Christ as wrong. I have nothing personal against you Rod, but I
do not think you want my friendship or my advice about the Scriptures
because you said you were not going to take sides between me and him,
and then you did and began following me around joining him in
criticizing me.
Snowjob has insisted on being my enemy; he says I 'serve his
purposes', which purpose is to show that Christians don't really 'love
their enemies'. I forgave his insults several times, and he turned
right around and called me whore and murderer again (and he still
maintains I am a whore and a murderer); after several times his
apologies just isn't aren't believable. Should I play the fool and act
as if I believe him every time? Would you? I doubt it.
The Scriptures you have quoted me say we are to forgive repeatedly IF
they repent.
Luk 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against
thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
Luk 17:4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and
seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt
forgive him.
He does not repent; he is playing anti-Christian games. He applies
standards to Christians he doesn't hold to himself, saying he is 'not
going to be hung upon a cross and spat upon', but this is what he
expects Christians to tolerate, and he wants love for doing so.
It is Snowjob's goal here in this public forum to convince people to
deny Christ, thereby ensuring their eternal damnation. He has devoted
himself to convincing people God was not incarnate as our only Saviour
and works at it daily with much fervor, and I will not participate in
that by failing to point out his ways and his falsehoods. You cannot
serve God and man at the same time.
1 John 5:2 "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we
love God, and keep his commandments."
I do not hate Snowjob; I just don't put up with his mind-games and
find his hypocrisy nauseating. I would not deny him medical attention
nor food or water if the occasion arose, just as I would not deny
ANYONE. And I would not have any objection to him again accepting
Christ as God the only Saviour, but I don't see that happening.
>
> >>> who was
> >>> referring to 'guardian Snow'/"SnowJob".
> >> Well slap my little hand! I plagiarized something from
> >> you...and..and..it fits you to the "T"!
>
> > Plagiarism is theft. And plagiarism is another of your buddy Snowjob's
> > tactics. But at least you don't copy entire blocks of text.
>
> And including a portion of another persons post in your reply IS
> theft, so you are as guilty.
Again, you are not making much sense, since your words I included had
initially been my words you plagiarize.
>
>
>
> >> The title snowjob really fits you much better than it does Snow. How
> >> long now have you been conning the Christians into believing that you
> >> are one of them ? Four years ? More ? Don't you realize that your
> >> charade was over the minute you began acting possessed?
>
> >>
> >> Evil people delight in their evil lies and think their propensity for
> >> compulsive lying proves they are more intelligent than others.
>
Linda Lee, describing Snowjob.
Linda Lee
> On Oct 30, 10:43 am,LindaLee<lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> > > Why are you following me aroundLinda? I didn't post to you
> > > with the same drivel and spam that is in your replies to me!
>
> > Drop the act. It is you who has been following me around; I've only
> > posted to you in reply to your accusing posts to me or to posts in
> > which you were gossiping about me this past few months. This
> > allegation of stalking against those you stalk is another tactic of
> > your buddy Snowjob. You are learning well.
>
> > Snowjob says to Rod, "You will find it is a common tactic to accuse
> > other people of the very thing you are guilty of... Excellent
> > thoughts."
>
> Which is exactly what you do. You STALK people that don't want to
> talk to you and then as we see here, you claim they follow you around
> when they don't post in threads you start, you post in threads other
> people start. It's rare you ever start a thread so you must have a
> plan having just started a thread cross posting to all the same
> boards. You are so transparent and insane.
>
> You can read this the first time or the hundredth time this gets
LOL. Hypocrite, you say *I've* "made this very personal", and now
you're repeatedly lying that I am a "Lesbian" with a capital "L". Is
"Lesbian" like 'the Queen of the lesbians'? I am NOT a lesbian; you
are just a typical male chauvinist pig who thinks women you cannot
dominate must be lesbians.
So Snowjob, call me "whore" and "Lesbian" all you like; I still will
not renounce Christ as God incarnate as you insist I do, and I will
continue to use the KJV Bible and the words God, LORD, and Holy
regardless of your repeated demands I stop. As always, YOU LIE about
what I believe about Christ and the Scriptures and everything else
connected with God. You definitely have mental problems.
Enough time wasted on you and your garbage. Here is your standard
response:
Antichrist hypocrite Snowjob,
Neither you nor your male chauvinist buddy Ike really care about or
believe what you preach.
Ike lies about what I believe (falsely claiming that I deny the deity
of the Messiah and that I claim we are able to obey the Ten
Commandments without the help of Christ's righteousness), but
hypocritically exempts you Snowjob whom he knows DOES deny the deity
of the Messiah and falsely claims we should be able to and must obey
the Ten Commandments of our own will.
You, like the hypocritical little satan that you are, accuse
Christians daily, whining about others' treatment of you while you
mistreat them being your favorite past-time, calling them names and
judging them that they are judgmental of others, yet you exempt your
buddy, the self-professed Christian Ike, who is as judgmental as they
come and adds to that fault by repeatedly and deliberately giving
false witness about others, lying about what others believe and
attacking them on a daily basis, calling everyone filthy names. Then
you put on your halo and repeatedly lie that you are tolerant of
others' views, yet you began repeatedly calling me “Whore” when I
refused to stop using the KJV Bible and the words God and Holy and
Lord, as you had insisted I do, and calling me “Murderer” when you
found out I had voted for President Obama.
You aren't even sincere about what you claim to hate, let alone what
Linda Lee
>
> > > Why are you following me aroundLinda? I didn't post to you
> > > with the same drivel and spam that is in your replies to me!
>
> > Drop the act. It is you who has been following me around; I've only
> > posted to you in reply to your accusing posts to me or to posts in
> > which you were gossiping about me this past few months. This
> > allegation of stalking against those you stalk is another tactic of
> > your buddy Snowjob. You are learning well.
>
> > Snowjob says to Rod, "You will find it is a common tactic to accuse
> > other people of the very thing you are guilty of... Excellent
> > thoughts."
>
> Which is exactly what you do. You STALK people that don't want to
> talk to you and then as we see here, you claim they follow you around
> when they don't post in threads you start, you post in threads other
> people start.
One more point. When will you understand, as you've been informed
countless times, the person who begins a new thread does not OWN the
thread; if people have a different viewpoint or want to agree with or
add to your post, they will post in "your" thread. However, YOU LIE
again here when you deny posting in threads I have started.
Just this week, you've posted in the threads I began at the following
links, often posting to me directly, calling me Jezebel witch among
other diatribes:
"GOD SAID He does NOT give his GLORY to another." -
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.messianic/msg/597db2a0e6df19bd
"IS CHRIST _REALLY_ ON THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD?" -
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.messianic/msg/1c02026c369e62ae
"Those who do not follow Christ cannot keep God's Commandments because
they do not have the Spirit of God." -
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.messianic/msg/bdff64abb632c09b
So are you deliberately lying, or do you just not know what you do?
More likely you're a compulsive liar and cannot control it, evidence
you're a child of the Devil, the father of lies.
I guess this accusation is just more evidence of your "Excellent
Thoughts" - Snowjob says to Rod, "You will find it is a common tactic
to accuse other people of the very thing you are guilty of...
Excellent thoughts." -
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.bible/msg/0adfc17f981beec2
I notice too that you've changed Emma's title in this thread she
started at least twice, isn't that another internet crime in your
book?
guardian Snow
Did you mistake me for somebody that desires to speak with you or have
any form of contact?
::: Jesus is LORD :::
she is no stalker, either. Responding to newsgroup posts is no stalking,
but the desired action to do in a newsgroup.
guardian Snow snowp...@eck.net.au wrote in
8c7b0d5b-06c4-4ceb...@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com
Linda Lee
Standard reply:
guardian Snow
I hope you decide to actually stop obsessing on me and posting your
love letters to me... move on lady.. I'm not interested.
Linda Lee
> I hope you decide to actually stop obsessing on me and posting your
> love letters to me... move on lady.. I'm not interested.
Standard reply (or as Snowjob calls it, a love letter):
Ike E 10/29/09
" ::: Jesus is LORD :::" <jesus-...@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:7kv8ieF...@mid.individual.net...
> Linda is not insane, and she is no stalker, either.
LOL
Linda is a certified Grade A #1 nutcase teaching just about every kind of
heretical nonsense there is EXCEPT Jesus, Paul, and John's Gospel of Grace.
What? You haven't heard her rant against Paul?
[snip]
Ike
guardian Snow
Ike E 10/29/09
> Neither you nor... [snip]
Notice how the fraud can't deal with the basic biblical facts when
confronted with them.
Ike
Linda Lee
l...@lycos.com> wrote:
> Snow, do you not think you should stop this? Linda is not insane, and
> she is no stalker, either. Responding to newsgroup posts is no stalking,
> but the desired action to do in a newsgroup.
Vera,
He can't get it through his head that these public newsgroups aren't
his personal podium in which to preach his false message. People have
been telling him otherwise for over two years, but it doesn't sink in.
He thinks he owns any thread he begins (or posts in, changing it's
original title to reflect his aim) and can control any opposition to
his error-ridden interpretation of the Scriptures, yet feels free to
argue against any pro-Christian posts that show the Scriptures say
Christ was God incarnate. I guess he is always going to complain
because the nature of the newsgroups being open to the public is not
going to change to suit him and people aren't going to keep silent
because he orders them to do so. He should stay in his own group where
he is not so frustrated by his inability to control others' posts and
can delete the posts or banish the posters at will.
>
> guardian Snow snowpheo...@eck.net.au wrote in
> 8c7b0d5b-06c4-4ceb-85ae-f2ab94d83...@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com
Linda Lee
wrote:
>
<snip>
>
> Lying Ignorant Ike
Standard reply:
Ike E 10/29/09
Linda Lee
wrote:
> "LindaLee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote...
>
[snip]
guardian Snow
I can’t read your post Linda, they make people dumber for having even
looked at them. You can read this the first time or the hundredth time
Linda Lee
>
<snip Snowjob's lies>
Standard reply:
Antichrist hypocrite Snowjob,
Neither you nor your male chauvinist buddy Ike really care about or
believe what you preach.
Ike lies about what I believe (falsely claiming that I deny the deity
of the Messiah and that I claim we are able to obey the Ten
Commandments without the help of Christ's righteousness), but
hypocritically exempts you Snowjob whom he knows DOES deny the deity
of the Messiah and falsely claims we should be able to and must obey
the Ten Commandments of our own will.
You, like the hypocritical little satan that you are, accuse
Christians daily, whining about others' treatment of you while you
mistreat them being your favorite past-time, calling them names and
judging them that they are judgmental of others, yet you exempt your
buddy, the self-professed Christian Ike, who is as judgmental as they
come and adds to that fault by repeatedly and deliberately giving
false witness about others, lying about what others believe and
attacking them on a daily basis, calling everyone filthy names. Then
you put on your halo and repeatedly lie that you are tolerant of
others' views, yet you began repeatedly calling me “Whore” when I
refused to stop using the KJV Bible and the words God and Holy and
Lord, as you had insisted I do, and calling me “Murderer” when you
found out I had voted for President Obama.
So Snowjob, continue to call me "Whore", “murderer”, “Jezebel witch”,
and "Lesbian" all you like; I still will not renounce Christ as God
incarnate as you insist I do, and I will continue to use the KJV Bible
and the words God, LORD, and Holy regardless of your repeated demands
I stop. As always, YOU LIE about what I believe about Christ and the
Scriptures and everything else connected with God.
You definitely have mental problems evidenced by your compulsive
lying. You aren't even sincere about what you claim to hate, let alone
guardian Snow
by T. S. Eliot
Mistah Kurtz-he dead.
A penny for the Old Guy
We are the hollow men
We are the stuffed men
Leaning together
Headpiece filled with straw. Alas!
Our dried voices, when 5
We whisper together
Are quiet and meaningless
As wind in dry grass
Or rats' feet over broken glass
In our dry cellar 10
Shape without form shade without colour,
Paralyzed force, gesture without motion;
Those who have crossed
With direct eyes to death's other Kingdom
Remember us--if at all-- not as lost 15
Violent souls, but only
As the hollow men
The stuffed men.
II
Eyes I dare not meet in dreams
In death's dream kingdom 20
These do not appear:
There the eyes are
Sunlight on a broken column
There is a tree swinging
And voices are 25
In the wind's singing
More distant and more solemn
Than a fading star
Let me be no nearer
In death's dream kingdom 30
Let me also wear
Such deliberate disguises
Rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves
In a field
Behaving as the wind behaves 35
No nearer--
Not that final meeting
In the twilight kingdom.
III
This is the dead land
this is cactus land 40
Here the stone images
Are raised, here they receive
The supplication of a dead man's hand
Under the twinkle of a fading star.
Is it like this 45
In death's other kingdom
Waking alone
At the hour when we are
Trembling with tenderness
Lips that would kiss 50
Form prayers to broken stone
IV
The eyes are not here
There are no eye here
In this valley of dying stars
In this hollow valley 55
This broken jaw of our lost kingdoms.
In this last of meeting places
We grope together
And avoid speech
Gathered on this beach of the tumid river. 60
Sightless, unless
The eyes reappear
As the perpetual star
Multifoliate rose
Of death's twilight kingdom 65
The hope only
Of empty men.
V
Here we go round the prickly pear
Prickly pear prickly pear
Here we go round the prickly pear 70
At five o'clock in the morning.
Between the idea
And the reality
Between the motion
And the act 75
Falls the Shadow
For Thine is the Kingdom
Between the conception
And the creation
Between the emotion 80
And the response
Falls the Shadow
Life is very long
Between the desire
And the spasm 85
Between the potency
And the existence
Between the essence
And the descent
Falls the Shadow 90
For Thine is the Kingdom
For Thine is
Life is
For thine is the
This is the way the way the world ends 95
This is the way the way the world ends
This is the way the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.
dolf
> This is not my first spam war as you well KNOW. I�ve been in these on
> your side trying to help fend off people just a psychotic as you like
> I�ve patiently asked you many times to stop your attacks on me
> and even when you�re not talking to me, you�re talking about me. You
> are obsessed with ME, not your deity, not obeying any so called
> claiming a demon.
>
Saturnalia became one of the most popular Roman festivals. It was marked
by tomfoolery and reversal of social roles, in which slaves and masters
ostensibly switched places--"I thank God that I baptized none of you,
but Crispus and Gaius." [1 Corinthians 1:10-31 (KJV)] In February/March
41 CE, Gaius Sallustius Passienus Crispus was asked by the Emperor
Claudius (41-54 CE) to divorce his cousin, Roman Emperor Augustus�
(30-14 CE) great niece Domitia in 33 and marry his niece Agrippina the
Younger. He was an intelligent, humble and witty person, famous for his
epigram that there had never been a better slave or a worse master,
referring to the Emperor Tiberius (14-37 CE) and his heir, Caligula
(37-41 CE).
Did the Apostle Paul earlier baptize the Roman Caesar Caligula and the
reputable Passienus Crispus (d. 47 CE) as step-father to Nero? Therefore
given this ancestral spiritual prerogative, had no problem in later
making an appeal to Caesar Nero's jurisprudence and whom he met as a
21yo in 58 CE as the fourth year of his rule. Whereas Rome's earlier
emperors (as technically Rome's first citizens) rose to power on the
back of great deeds to which the inclusion of July and August within the
calendar attests. Nero, like Caligula, obtained power by the privilege
of his birth as the bestowal of Julio-Claudian dynastic favour from his
grand-uncle Emperor Claudius. Born on 15 December 37 CE into great
wealth and luxury with little training in administration, Nero was an
indolent victim of his own elite status. Who, after the destruction of
the city by fire in July 64 CE, began the persecution of Christians (ie.
Jewish piety and uncircumcised Gentile proselytes). Which continued
until the legalizing of Christianity by Constantine the Great in 313 CE.
Super: #379 / #67 - Three Treasures; I-Ching: H10 - Tread Carefully;
Tetra: #48 - Ritual; Ego: #286 / #73 - Employing Deeming/ Daring to Act;
I-Ching: H46 - Moving Upward; Tetra: #7 - Ascent
Latin: Gloria {God who comforts the oppressed} Alt: Menkel {Cease Strife
Before God] {
1. HELPS HEAL THE ILLS OF THE SPIRIT, RELEASES FROM PERSECUTORS
2. MEN OF VIRTUE
3. FAITHFULNESS, INDUCES OBEDIENCE IN SUBORDINATES
4. Homoth
} Jesus {He is saved/A savior; a deliverer] of Nazareth {Sovereign; one
chosen or set apart; separated; crowned; sanctified}; #15 CE
[#3 - Prescriptions for Politics/ Keeping the People Quiet, #20 - Left
without Language/ Different From the Vulgar, #52 - So What?/ Returning
to the Origin, #73 - Employing Deeming/ Daring to Act, #79 - Recognizing
Agreements/ Keep Your Obligations, #1 - To Guide with Names/ Reason's
Realisation, #16 - Being a Guide/ Returning to the Root, #35 - Great
Guiding Signs?/ Virtue of Benevolence, #7 - Intentional Reversal/
Dimming Radiance]
The daemon shown below for 17 December relates to Nous Category of
Understanding @ #72 - "Self-Love, Holding Oneself Dear; Tetra: #79 -
Difficulties; I-Ching: H39 - Obstacles" which has a further #330 - ANGEL
MITZRAEL @ #73 - "Employing Deeming, Daring to Act; Tetra: #7 - Ascent;
I-Ching: H46 - Moving Upward" correspondence as autonomic homoiotic
sapiental kabbalistic paradigm, to the Christian Passion as Soul of the
Messiah in the 7th strata: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is
neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all
one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed,
and heirs according to the promise. Now I say, that the heir, as long as
he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of
all; But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the
father.
Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage-DOULOO under-HUPO the
elements-STOICHEION of the world-KOSMOS: But when the fullness of the
time was come {ie. "Seventy weeks (as 490 years x 364 days) are
determined for your people and for your Holy City, to finish the
transgression, to make an end of sins, to make reconciliation for
iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and
prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy." [Daniel 9:24-27]}, God sent
forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that
were under the law {ie. Our Lord Jesus Christ who gave himself for our
sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil age, according to
the will of our God and Father, to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen
[Galatians 1:3-5]}, that we might receive the adoption of sons. And
because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your
hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but
a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. Howbeit then,
when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how
turn ye again to the weak-ASTHENES and beggarly-PTOCHOS
elements-STOICHEION, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye
observe days, and months, and times, and years. {Sun and Moon of the 6D
cycle of 2 x 1092 days as 3 x 364 days solar or 3 x 354 + 30 days lunar
cycle: Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the
day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days
and years" [Genesis 1:14]} I am afraid for you, lest I have bestowed
upon you labour in vain." [Galatians 3:28-4:11]
Super: #267 / #12 - Numbing Effect of the Conventional/ Abstaining from
Desire; I-Ching: H6 - Conflict; Tetra: #25 - Contention; Ego: #247 / #3
- Prescriptions for Politics/ Keeping the People Quiet; I-Ching: H46 -
Moving Upward; Tetra: #8 - Opposition
Latin: Facies {God above all things} Alt: Anael {Ship of God} {
1. SERVES TO OBTAIN THE FRIENDSHIP OF A PERSON
2. ASTRONOMY & PHYSICS
3. THE SENSITIVITY OF THE HEART
4. Ptiau
} #34 CE
[#70 - Difficulty in Knowing How/ Difficult to Understand, #17 -
Politics, #3 - Prescriptions for Politics/ Keeping the People Quiet, #3
- Prescriptions for Politics/ Keeping the People Quiet, #21 - Guiding
and the Physical/ Emptying the Heart, #63 - Origins in Reversal/
Consider Beginnings, #26 - Ambiguous Reversals/ Virtue of Gravity, #36 -
Natural Reversals/ 'Secret' Explanation, #8 - Worth of Water/ Easy By
Nature]
This cypher-chronos connection to the sum #330 as the HRUMACHIS 'oth 6D
= 6 * 364 as 2184 day cycle to the solar/lunar calendar as evident by
the Spirit moving across the waters in the Genesis narrative, also has a
computed inclusion of the 12th as vCyan on Vernal Equinox of 20 March
1996 + (5*364) + 182 = 12 September 2001 as the 1st day of 7th solar
month and the 17th as vCoral on the #369th day as New Moon of 17
September 2001 / 18 September = 1 Tishri 5762: "And after {#54, #345,
#346} three {#411} months {#299} we departed {G321} in a ship {#191,
#310} of Alexandria {G221}, which had wintered {G3914} in the isle
{#378}, whose sign {G3902} was Castor {G1359} and Pollux {G1359}. And
landing {#347, #394, #456, #547} at {G1519} Syracuse {G4946}, we tarried
{#196, #255, #291, #305, #418} there three {#411} days {#204, #354, #364}.
And from thence {G3606} we fetched a compass {#362}, and came {G2658} to
Rhegium {#241}: and after {#54, #345, #346} one {G3391} day {#204, #354,
#364} the south {#540} wind blew {G1920}, and we came {#49, #62, #212,
#252, #262, #357, #465, #474, #497} the next {G1206} day to Puteoli
{G4223}: Where {G3757} we found {#534, #570} brethren {G80}, and were
desired {#252, #261, #298, #318, #320, #356, #443, #449, #456, #462,
#493, #497, #512} to tarry {#196, #255, #291, #305, #418} with them
seven {#386} days {#204, #354, #364}: and so {G3779} we went {#49, #62,
#212, #252, #262, #357, #465, #474, #497} toward {G1519} Rome {G4516}.
Nous: #72
Time: 17:40 hrs
Date: 2009.12.17
Torah: #70 #40 #40 %81 = #69
Dao: Self-Love, Holding Oneself Dear
Tetra: #79 - Difficulties
I-Ching: H39 - Obstacles
Latin: Festinus {God raised above all things} Alt: Shaahyah {Contemplate
God} {
1. HELPS DESTROY ENEMIES PROTECTS PRISONERS
2. VIGOUR, VOYAGES
3. RESEARCH
4. Sagen
}
Azor {A helper; a court}
And from thence {G1564}, when the brethren {G80} heard {G191} of us,
they came {#174, #232, #277, #317, #327, #419, #422, #530, #548} to meet
{G529} us as far {G891} as Appii {G675} forum {G5410}, and The three
{#411} taverns {G4999}: whom {#1, #270, #470} when Paul {#516} saw {#37,
#237, #285, #288, #332, #342, #345, #390, #399, #430, #515}, he thanked
{G2168} God {#19, #284, #294, #484}, and took {#38, #51, #142, #243,
#249, #289, #339, #343, #346, #348, #409, #434, #454} courage {G2294}.
"The Sages said: '[For] three sins a person is punished (lit., 'it is
collected from a person') in this world, and he has no share in the
World to Come: idolatry, incest / adultery, and murder. And the
spreading of evil gossip (lashon hara) is equivalent to all three.' The
Sages said further: 'Anyone who speaks lashon hara, it is as if he has
denied G-d, as it is stated, "...those who said, 'Because of our tongues
we will overpower, our lips are with us, who is master over us?' ... 'I
will now arise in judgement', says the LORD, 'I will give deliverance to
my people; but as for the wicked, I will make evil testify against
them.'" [Aramaic Targum Psalm 12:5-6]. And the Sages said further,
'Three does lashon hara kill: the one who says it, the one who accepts
it, and the one who is spoken about. And the accepter more so than the
speaker."
Tim Reason (timr...@hotmail.co.uk): "Seems you are claiming that God
is a three-way polygamous, incestrious, gay marriage! Blasphemy!! And by
YOUR own standards!"
Guardian Snow (American Yahwehist) OZ Parasite: "I find that word
"blasphemy" tossed about too often."
Tim Reason (timr...@hotmail.co.uk): "I agree, but the idiotic moronic
twit Ike repeatedly did so, which is why I turned it back on him, but of
course he is far too thick to understand that."
Ike E 2009 (xhermanei...@gmail.com): "Hmmm. 'the idiotic moronic
twit Ike.'
And yet it's Tim who can't get it through his thick skull that marriage
was established in God's image, and God's image is marriage.
Or should we say that he doesn't want to, lest he find he has embraced
the heresy of "politically corrected christianity?"
Merlin (merli...@gmail.com): "Merlin knows not why so many christians
are afraid to love as Jesus teaches. Merlin has been trying for a while
now to get even one person on christnet to try to love to see what
happens. There seems a fear that love may change many, a fear that when
we love we won't be the same person.
We all give up something to be with god, our own personal sacrifice is
what is important. To give up this world tho not our business in the
world. To give up our hatred and confusion tho not our quest for truth
and grace. We all gotta give of ourselves, and it is easiest in love,
cause that love leads it's own life in us with Jesus showing us the way
to the father mother god.
And when we do give up on this world and begin to love, we find where we
are in the world and the good we may want to promote in this world with
our love. We are not here to fight, we are here to learn to love. That
takes trying to love, correction: that takes loving.
It is amazing what happens, Tim sees it in Tim, others have found this
love also. It is as scary as it may seem to love as Jesus asks us to
love. The benefits out weight the worst that can happen to us. For when
we love we are more open and aware of the world around us. We see the
character and good in everyone, we see everyone we meet potential no
matter where they may be at that moment. Love and the hanger door to the
universe opens for us all."
Ike E 2009 (xhermanei...@gmail.com): "Your blasphemies of THROWING
OUT GOD'S WORD..."
Guardian Snow (American Yahwehist) OZ Parasite: "Personally, I've become
callous to hearing it because I see it next to my name on a daily basis.
Merlin is an interesting case but let's face it, you are casting your
time to the wind by talking to him.. He's not going to change and
suddenly become straight."
Merlin (merli...@gmail.com): "What does this comment have to do with
reality?"
Ike E 2009 (xhermanei...@gmail.com): "Everything. The Word, the
Works, and the Spirit have to agree. When someone says something that
doesn't agree, they're trying to pull a fast one, which is what you've
been doing all along. [snip]"
Tim Reason (timr...@hotmail.co.uk): "In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God, and the Word was God ... and the Word became
flesh and dwelt among us."
Ike E 2009 (xhermanei...@gmail.com): "Now, what the hell did that
have to do with my statement?
JESUS said there were three things that testified to Him: The Word, the
Works He did, and The Spirit. If something doesn't AGREE with one of
these three things, SOMEBODY is PULLING YOUR LEG. And Merlin
SPECIFICALLY DENIES THE AUTHORITY OF SCRIPTURE.
Of course. He has to. The minute one examines Merlin's lies in light of
what scripture says, it quickly becomes apparent that Merlin is ALWAYS
saying the OPPOSITE of what the Word says.
Then people like you are taken in by his "whorish" lies just because he
couches them in the word "love" as many times as he can, when what he is
talking about is about as far away from "love" as east is from west.
You have to be one really weak and pathetic "Christian" to be taken in
by that kind of B.S."
Tim Reason (timr...@hotmail.co.uk): "Indeed. In fact, I believe that
is actually impossible for any gay person to do. IMO however, that is
not the point. The point is that Merlin has a far, far better grasp on
the CORE message of the Gospel than Ike has, since the core message is
'Love God, Love thy Neighbour'."
Ike E 2009 (xhermanei...@gmail.com): "Thanks for demonstrating how
much you AREN'T Christian, Tim, and that you reject the basic tenants of
the Gospel, which you do every time you endorse Merlin's "antichristian"
doctrines.
Jesus and the boys said one thing. Merlin says the opposite. Tim agrees
with Merlin. Go figure."
Guardian Snow (American Yahwehist) OZ Parasite: "...and for the most
part, I doubt that any reasonable person would give him a second thought."
Tim Reason (timr...@hotmail.co.uk): "I don't know him, but I don't
write off *everything* he says just because he is somewhat
unconventional. There remains the fact that he expresses unconditional
love as being the key,"
Ike E 2009 (xhermanei...@gmail.com): "Unconditional love?
God never taught it.
Why would I?
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that
whosoever believeth in him [condition prima facia] should not perish,
but have everlasting life." [John 3:16]"
Tim Reason (timr...@hotmail.co.uk): "...and on that much I think he is
closer than Idiot Ike to the truth, even if he is still way off. "
Ike E 2009 (xhermanei...@gmail.com): "...said one blasphemer to
the other."
Guardian Snow (American Yahwehist) OZ Parasite: "I would be curious to
learn more about your opinion and other people on the topic directly. I
think it's a disgusting practice but... if you didn't base your
understanding simply on the idea of homosexuality as sin.. why would you
disagree with the practice?"
Tim Reason (timr...@hotmail.co.uk): "I make a distinction between
sexual *orientation* (that is, whether a person finds people of their
own sex or the opposite one *attractive*, whether or not they act on
that), and sexual *activity*. The reason I make that distinction is that
I believe that whereas sexual activity IS a choice, sexual *orientation*
is not."
Ike E 2009 (xhermanei...@gmail.com): "Neither is heterosexuality,
and pretty much every man is given to the desire for heterosexual
behavior. But this is only evidence of the CORRUPTION OF THE FLESH man
lives in.
This STILL in NO WAY substantiates THE ABOMINATION of same-sex marriage."
Tim Reason (timr...@hotmail.co.uk): "Thus it is as nonsensical to say
"It is a sin to have a homosexual orientation" as it is to say "It is a
sin to have black skin" or "It is a sin to be left-handed"."
Ike E 2009 (xhermanei...@gmail.com): "Rationalistic nonsense.
God never wrote a prohibition on being black or left-handed.
He DID prohibit SAME SEX, just as He prohibited every OTHER form of
sexual behavior that DIVERTS FROM THE DIVINE IMAGE, i.e. MARRIAGE.
But Tim plays a game of selective perception when it comes to
comparisons, doesn't he?"
Tim Reason (timr...@hotmail.co.uk): "Thus, to be 'gay' (in the sense
of orientation) of itself just *cannot* be a sin."
Ike E 2009 (xhermanei...@gmail.com): "The hell it can't.
The FLESH is BORN IN SIN, and IS SIN."
Tim Reason (timr...@hotmail.co.uk): "Moving on to sexual *acts*,
whether someone finds something 'disgusting' or not is not the issue.
There are some people who find the idea of ANY sexual activity
'disgusting'. Some find the notion of oral sex disgusting, others think
it normal. Feelings of disgust are irrelevant."
Ike E 2009 (xhermanei...@gmail.com): "Good thing "feelings" are
irrelevant in the law."
Tim Reason (timr...@hotmail.co.uk): "From the Christian point of view,
almost anything in the Fallen world is intrinsically sinful. Also it
makes little sense to consider one sin 'worse' than another, since we
consider ANY sin, even the tiniest, little, itsy-bitsy teeny-weeny sin
to be kingdom-excluding and deserving of death, in God's eyes."
Ike E 2009 (xhermanei...@gmail.com): "Says Tim from his
rationalizations...again.
Fact is, the law had different weights and measures for different acts,
and homosexual activity was on THE DEATH LIST. That any violation of the
law breaks the whole law in NO WAY changes the fact that there were
MAJOR and MINOR sins, Tim."
Tim Reason (timr...@hotmail.co.uk): "Thus IMO it is unfair to pull out
the sins of one particular group and hold up *their* sins as being worse
than our own. IMO that is scape-goating or distraction. We are ALL sinners."
Ike E 2009 (xhermanei...@gmail.com): "Which, again, in no way
mitigates the fact that the law has MAJOR and MINOR sins.
But, of course, Tim doesn't READ the law anymore, does he? Someone lied
and told him it was completely irrelevant, as per the growing
apostasy--I also [snip-yawned] the rest without reading it."
Tim Reason (timr...@hotmail.co.uk): "Because it was all based on your
misunderstanding of my position, or more likely your deliberate
obtuseness because you have been clearly caught in the act of blatant
prejudice. "
Ike E 2009 (xhermanei...@gmail.com): "The only 'prejudice' I hold
is the one against antibiblical lies, especially the ones trying to
rewrite the story for the sake of political correctness (which will be
the downfall of us all)."
Tim Reason (timr...@hotmail.co.uk): "Well, I ignore political
correctness, because it is rubbish. I will stick with the majority of
Christians, and let you go off on your own way."
Thom Madura (tomm...@optonline.net): "The majority of christians are
catholics and their leader said this "Pope Pius IX in an encyclical in
1854 said this:
"It must, of course, be held as a matter of faith that outside the
apostolic Roman Church no one can be saved, that the Church is the only
ark of salvation, and that whoever does not enter it will perish in the
flood."
So - are you saying you are a catholic - or not if you are not a
catholic - then YOU are not with the majority of christians."
(ru) dolf: "Just make sure this political liberty as religious freedom
of yours concerning Apostolic baptism of opportunistic divorcees and
friends of Caesar, doesn't lead to less-majeste as slander of the
Sovereignty of State."
Randy � [Sody] Barbara (pulpi...@gmail.com): "Dolf. Seriously. Are you
a spam-bot, or are you just totally nuts?"
Jude Smart-Alex-ander (ashm...@bellsouth.net): "He's not nuts even
though, on the surface, he appears to be. :) "
Mark "I" Tindall (me@home389): "Dolf is far more intelligent than Randy
Young."
Jude Smart-Alex-ander (ashm...@bellsouth.net): "True."
Randy � [Sody] Barbara (pulpi...@gmail.com): "Are you experimenting
with artificial intelligence or something?"
(ru) dolf: "I do own a copy of mdbs GURU for Windows/32 and have an
artificial intelligence interest. I have an interest in homoiotic
sapiental kabbalistic reality. Having just seen a news story about a
computer virtual reality {ie. A graphical environment which simulates
the real world as the sensory reality to which a person is intently
focused or interfaced} of Iraq war zones and its psychosomatic use to
deprogram soldiers with post traumatic stress syndrome. My informal
interest is equivalently concerned with the autonomic modelling of human
and terrestial events against my virtual cube for artificial
intelligence purposes and this project has, following the GURU
Artificial Intelligence 4th Generation Language Scripting tool's first
selection for usage by the Victoria Police Force, taken some 24 years of
metaphysical philosophical and theological conceptual thinking.
At the following URL, I am concerned with an event.zen@row:col being a
telos supernal and ego entry event.telos@super:ego in the hierarchy for
that telos entry.
http://www.grapple.id.au/grapple.html (safari only)
What I'm informally looking at is the ability to set a watch
oCUBE.setWatch: function (zen, row, col, telos, sup, ego) on specific
Categories of Understanding for any given event upon a date
year@month:day or time hour@minute:second and observing by the
oCUBE.compareSet: function(setA, setB) where these categories intersect
within other sub-Categories in other areas of the virtual cube.
I wish to see if any appraisals of other phenomenal events such as
speech@date:time can be made at these specific intersection points and
whether they are able to contribute to coherency as any sense of being
relative to time, containment and cohesion as unity of apperception,
determination of verity and hence amenable to rules based statements and
analysis--given that this is a variable array _GIZMO navigated within
the document:
_GIZMO[zen][row][col].watch[telos + '@' + sup + ':' + ego] = {
watch: telos + '@' + sup + ':' + ego,
date: now.getFullYear() + '@' + (now.getMonth()+1) + ':' +
now.getDate(),
time: now.getHours() + '@' + now.getMinutes() + ':' + now.getSeconds()
};"
Eric Fisher (ericf...@webtv.net): "Good grief... looks like it's
still recess at the govt. school... some things never change..."
Diana [Saskia] Lonnie (shech...@reborn.com): "---))) Hi Eric, it is
nice to see your name here again. I hope life is treating you well."
Jude Smart-Alex-ander (ashm...@bellsouth.net): "Talking about change,
how's the "change" going with you, Erica? :) Attracted to this
particular thread ('Beating death of a gay teen' or 'Saying no to rabid
anti-homosexualists') for any personal reasons? :) I was thinking about
you yesterday because I came across your name in my files. :) "
(ru) dolf: "Jude Done That" or "Jude Smart-Alex-ander"?
Jude Smart-Alex-ander (ashm...@bellsouth.net): "I'm sorry but that
makes me want to punch somebody... the ones responsible."
(ru) dolf: "A punch and judy show or a crazy with multiple personality
disorder?"
Nous: #7
Time:
Date:
Torah: #6 #300 #200 %81 = #20
Dao: Intentional Reversal, Dimming Radiance
Tetra: #56 - Closed Mouth
I-Ching: H12 - Stagnation
Latin: Adorandus {Just God} Alt: Kahtiel {Weariness of Signs of God} {
1. AIDS AGAINST FALSE, UNJUST ACCUSATIONS
2. JUSTICE, NOBILIY, MAGISTRATES & LAWYERS
3. THE WORD
4. Thumis
}
Jesse {Gift; oblation; one who is}
Jude Smart-Alex-ander (ashm...@bellsouth.net): "Neither of them are
aware of their own self deception although surely many have tried to get
them to look."
Randy � [Sody] Barbara (pulpi...@gmail.com): "Attack the Bible, defend
homosexuality. You're the one who is deceived."
Jude Done That (ashm...@bellsouth.net): "Blindly follow stone-aged
men's perception of God not to mention their COMPLETE WISDOM (har har
har) regarding what homosexuality was/is. ;) Bye bye now
I attack the LIE of inerrancy. Sorry, you're too FundaMENTAL to know the
difference."
Ike E 2009 (xhermanei...@gmail.com): "There's that blasphemous
underlying assumption again that the law was just a "cultural fluke" of
the time, nevermind that Jesus FULLY UPHELD the law and the prophets,
which means you CAN'T believe in Jesus Christ if you don't BELIEVE IN
THE LAW, otherwise, there isn't anything to have GRACE from. Absolute
idiocy."
Jude Done That (ashm...@bellsouth.net): "Oh, yeah? If "God" instituted
ALL the laws of the OT, why do you full-of-ignorance FundaMENTALists
just choose some of them to follow ESPECIALLY since it is clear that the
11 apostles continue to follow Mosaic law vs. Paul who told the Gentiles
they didn't have to follow the law except for about THREE exceptions. :) "
Nicodemus (Ancient...@Heaven.Net): "Is [it] safe to pray?"
(ru) dolf: "It is, afterall, not so long since Catholics prayed weekly
for 'the conversion of England.'"
Jude Smart-Alex-ander (ashm...@bellsouth.net): "Look, either start
acting somewhat normal and having somewhat normal conversations or just
don't talk to me, okay? If you don't respect my request, you won't see
me respond to you again. If that's what you want, then just don't
respect my request."
Nicodemus (Ancient...@Heaven.Net): "Where do you want to start?"
An important side point which bears mention regards the Rambam's first
statement -- that violators of cardinal sins receive no share in the
hereafter. The commentators make it clear that this is only without
repentance. Certainly man may repent all his sins -- till his last
moments on earth, and by so doing merit a share in the World to Come.
The Rambam himself, in his Laws of Repentance (3:14), after listing
categories of heretics and the like who receive no share in the
afterlife, states as follows: "When is it the case that each of these
has no share in the World to Come? When he dies without repentance. But
if he repents his wickedness and [then] dies in a state of penitence,
behold he is among those who receive a share in the World to Come. For
there is nothing which stands in the way of repentance. Even if he
denied G-d his entire life and at the last moment returns, he has a
share, as it states, ''Peace! Peace to the far and the close!' says G-d,
'and I will heal him'' [Isaiah 57:19]."
The Rambam there continues that even if such people regretted their
actions in the inner recesses of their hearts and at the last moments of
their lives, their repentance is to some extent efficacious. It really
is a world of love. G-d did not create us just to punish us make our
lives difficult, but so that we'd cleave to Him and merit His closeness.
No one, no matter how sinful he has been and regardless of his age and
track record is "doomed". G-d waits till the very last moment for our
devotion.
'And when {#375} we came {#49, #62, #212, #252, #262, #357, #465, #474,
#497} to Rome {G4516}, the centurion {G1543} delivered {#277, #325,
#327, #331, #334, #440, #480, #490, #498, #511} the prisoners {#339,
#379} to the captain {G4759} of the guard {G4759}: but Paul {#516} was
suffered {G2010} to dwell {#220, #225, #260, #310, #405, #411, #415,
#418, #434, #516} by himself {G1438} with a soldier {G4757} that kept
{G5442} him.
And it came {#183, #197, #227, #236, #246, #277, #280, #281, #282, #283,
#288, #289, #294, #303, #308, #332, #339, #343, #348, #377, #379, #388,
#392, #393, #401, #429, #431, #437, #438, #443, #485, #493, #494, #503,
#508, #511, #542, #551} to pass, that after {#54, #345, #346} three
{#411} days {#204, #354, #364} Paul {#516} called {G4779} the chief
{G4413} of the Jews {G2453} together {G4779}: and when they were come
{G4905} together {G4905}, he said {#43, #53, #56, #204, #253, #261,
#263, #283, #296, #313, #323, #348, #351, #353, #354, #401, #408, #411,
#459, #473, #516, #525} unto them, Men {G435} and brethren {G80}, though
I have committed {#178, #225, #274, #328, #339, #369, #374, #375, #378,
#379, #383, #386, #389, #395, #424, #428, #434, #469, #472, #473, #480,
#485, #486, #488, #569, #574, #583} nothing {#530} against {#417} the
people {#301, #311, #501}, or {G2228} customs {#22, #29, #284} of our
fathers {G3971}, yet was I delivered {#277, #325, #327, #331, #334,
#440, #480, #490, #498, #511} prisoner {#339, #379} from Jerusalem
{G2414} into {G1519} the hands {G5495} of the Romans {G4514}.
Nous: #23
Time: 06:50 hrs
Date: 2009.7.4
Torah: #40 #5 #300 %81 = #21
Dao: Constancy of Guiding Concepts, Emptiness & Non-Existence
Tetra: #26 - Endeavor
I-Ching: H18 - Arresting Decay
Latin: Verus {God saviour} Alt: Nanael {Pray to God} {
1. HELPS TO LIVE IN PEACE WITH ALL
2. OCCULT MAGIC & THEOLOGY
3. LEARNING
4. Teut or Theuth
}
Mahalalel {Praise (fame) of God}
Who {#362}, when they had examined {G350} me, would have let {G630} me
go {G630}, because {#14, #15} there was no {#267, #377} cause {G156} of
death {#366, #481} in me. But when the Jews {G2453} spake {G483}
against {G483} it, I was constrained {G315} to appeal {#375, #377, #381,
#389, #472, #489} unto Caesar {#333, #342}; not that I had {#80, #280,
#375} ought {#570} to accuse {G2723} my nation {#72, #79, #329, #334}
of. For this {G5026} cause {G156} therefore {#520} have I called {#252,
#261, #298, #318, #320, #356, #443, #449, #456, #462, #493, #497, #512}
for you, to see {#37, #237, #285, #288, #332, #342, #345, #390, #399,
#430, #515} you, and to speak {G4354} with you: because {G1063} that for
the hope {#325, #399} of Israel {#349} I am bound {#281, #445} with this
{G5026} chain {G254}.
And they said {G2036} unto him, We neither {G3777} received {#80, #245,
#284, #289, #290, #349, #388, #435, #445} letters {#445, #486} out of
Judaea {#496, #506} concerning {G4012} thee, neither {G3777} any {#570}
of the brethren {G80} that came {#412, #485, #525} showed {G518} or
{G2228} spake {#76, #79, #81, #275, #276, #280, #284, #287, #293, #296,
#325, #329, #370, #381, #415, #434, #470, #479, #501} any {#570} harm
{#309, #313, #319, #388, #428, #509} of thee. But we desire {G515} to
hear {G191} of thee what {#1, #270, #470} thou thinkest {G5426}: for as
concerning {G4012} this {G5026} sect {G139}, we know {G1110} that every
{G3837} where {G3837} it is spoken {G483} against {G483}.
"Rabbi Yochanan the sandal maker said: Every assembly which is for the
sake of Heaven will eventually endure. And one which is not for the sake
of Heaven will not endure."
The theme of this week's mishna is that assemblies or gatherings -- even
(or especially) for worthy causes -- will not meet success if the
participants are not acting with sincerity and for the sake of Heaven.
If parents are active in a school board meeting in order to put the
principal in his place, or if families join to form a synagogue --
basically in order to make a statement to the *other* synagogue they're
breaking away from, the effort will ultimately fail. (And the synagogue
or school does not have to physically collapse for it to be clear that
the undertaking was a shameful failure.) Bad motives and bad agendas
make for bad institutions. We are all human and carry our share of bones
to pick and axes to grind. (I'm sure I could come up with a few more
metaphors.) But if the underlying purpose of our meetings and
undertakings is for anything short of the sake of Heaven, the results
will be as fleeting and temporal as human beings themselves tragically are.
(I was once asked to attend a synagogue meeting (of a synagogue I rarely
attended) specifically to vote against a certain individual for
synagogue president. I did so partly because the requester was not one I
could easily refuse, and partly because the case against that certain
individual was fairly convincing. (Note how I leave out virtually every
detail. ;-) So perhaps it was justified, but still... Religious causes
should not become fronts for airing our personal dislikes and vendettas.)
It's worthwhile to draw an important distinction here. Generally
speaking, the Rabbis view insincere deeds quite favorably. The Talmud
writes often that it is better to learn or perform good deeds
insincerely, for insincere deeds lead to sincere ones (Pesachim 50b).
Better to "do" -- study Torah out of not-fully-committed curiosity, or
perform mitzvos (commandments) for reward or recognition. The doing
itself is valuable, in fact invaluable. Good deeds themselves wield an
influence on a person and touch the soul." [� 2009 by Rabbi Dovid
Rosenfeld and Torah.org, Pirkei Avos: United We Stand, Chapter 4, Mishna 14]
And when they had appointed {#417} him a day {#204, #354, #364}, there
came {#43, #148} many {#235, #245, #246, #446, #450, #455, #515} to him
into {G1519} his lodging {G3578}; to whom {#1, #270, #470} he expounded
{G1620} and testified {G1263} the kingdom {G932} of God {#19, #284,
#294, #484}, persuading {#225, #255, #269, #274, #309, #319, #320, #323,
#329, #350, #351, #431, #435, #455, #484, #496, #522} them concerning
{G4012} Jesus {G2424}, both {#305} out of the law {#280, #430} of Moses
{G3475}, and out of the prophets {G4396}, from morning {G4404} till
{G2193} evening {#391, #441}.
"And some {G3588-G3303} believed {#225, #255, #269, #274, #309, #319,
#320, #323, #329, #350, #351, #431, #435, #455, #484, #496, #522} the
things which were spoken {#43, #53, #56, #204, #253, #261, #263, #283,
#296, #313, #323, #348, #351, #353, #354, #401, #408, #411, #459, #473,
#516, #525}, and some {#70, #80, #318, #358, #370, #420, #501, #508,
#511} believed not." [Acts 28:11-24]
I'd like to now begin by examining the second statement of the Rambam. I
feel it holds the key to understanding the others. The Rambam states
(quoting Talmud Erchin 15b) that speaking lashon hara is akin to denying
G-d. Now this statement seems extreme. We recognize, of course, that
great damage can be done with loose lips, yet how in the world can any
action, no matter how heinous, in any way approximate atheism? We all
sin, sometimes seriously. Yet none of us could imagine in the darkest
recesses of our hearts that G-d does not exist. (The Theory of
Evolution? Don't make me laugh.) If so, how could the Talmud even
venture such a comparison?
A straightforward explanation is actually implied by the Rambam himself
elsewhere (Laws of Tumas Tsara'as 16:10). He explains that people who
speak lashon hara do not content themselves with speaking about the
lowly. Their cynicism then turns to the righteous, then to the prophets,
in whose words they cast aspersions. Ultimately, such people will speak
ill of G-d Himself, denying His goodness or justness. Thus, with such
sins, one thing leads to another until the gossiper in some way denies
G-d. [� 2009 by Rabbi Dovid Rosenfeld and Torah.org, Maimonides on Life
-- Cynicism: The Joy of Inexistence, Part I, Chapter 7, Law 3(a)]
Nous: #9
Time: 16:40 hrs
Date: 2009.12.3
Torah: #1 #30 #4 %81 = #35
Dao: Inconstancy of Achievement, Practicing Placidity
Tetra: #32 - Legion
I-Ching: H7 - Army
Latin: Animus {Propitious God} Alt: Yeielel {Howl to God} {
1. HELPS HIDE THAT WHICH ONE DOES NOT WISH TO REVEAL, SECRETS
2. PLAGUE & RABIES
3. HEALING
4. Viroaso
}
Noah {Rest, Repose; consolation}
In this law the Rambam quotes a short selection of rabbinic statements
regarding the severity of lashon hara as gossiping. We asked how the
Sages could have possibly made so sweeping a statement by equating
lashon hara to denying G-d. True, gossiping is terrible and can destroy
lives, but how could any sin be compared to the denial of G-d Himself?
"And even {G2531} as they did not like {#356, #360, #367, #401, #409,
#446, #462} to retain {#80, #280, #375} God {#19, #284, #294, #484} in
their knowledge {G1922}, God {#19, #284, #294, #484} gave {#277, #325,
#327, #331, #334, #440, #480, #490, #498, #511} them over {#277, #325,
#327, #331, #334, #440, #480, #490, #498, #511} to a reprobate {G96}
mind {#390, #570}, to do {#178, #225, #274, #328, #339, #369, #374,
#375, #378, #379, #383, #386, #389, #395, #424, #428, #434, #469, #472,
#473, #480, #485, #486, #488, #569, #574, #583} those {#70, #80, #318,
#358, #370, #420, #501, #508, #511} things which are not convenient
{#178, #479};
Being filled {#498} with all {#11, #281, #282, #292, #299, #332, #341,
#432, #441, #482, #489, #492} unrighteousness {G93}, fornication {#316,
#326, #366, #516}, wickedness {#329, #369, #519}, covetousness {#311,
#321, #361, #511, #521}, maliciousness {#52, #62, #252}; full {G3324} of
envy {G5355}, murder {G5408}, debate {#315, #324, #389}, deceit {#374,
#574}, malignity {#344}; whisperers {G5588}, backbiters {G2637}, haters
{G2319} of God {G2319}, despiteful {G5197}, proud {G5244}, boasters
{G213}, inventors {G2182} of evil {#42, #52, #311, #511} things,
disobedient {G545} to parents {#338}, without {G801} understanding
{G801}, covenantbreakers {G802}, without {G794} natural affection
{G794}, implacable {G786}, unmerciful {G415}:
Who {#362} knowing {G1921} the judgment {G1345} of God {#19, #284, #294,
#484}, that they which commit {#247, #252, #297, #301, #342, #459, #484,
#551} such {G5108} things are worthy {G514} of death {#366, #481}, not
only {#280} do the same {G846}, but have {#80, #280, #375} pleasure
{G4909} in them that do {#247, #252, #297, #301, #342, #459, #484, #551}
them." [Romans 1:28-32]
The answer provides us a very basic understanding of the workings of the
human mind. Last week Rabbi Dovid Rosenfeld posed further: Why in fact
*do* people speak lashon hara? At times of course it's because *he* hurt
*me* very badly on some past occasion and so I yearn for sweet revenge.
But as we know, some people are just chronic speakers of lashon hara.
They always see bad in others -- in other individuals, in other ethnic
groups, in other types of Jews (especially ones more religious than
they), seemingly for no provocation. Now what kind of pleasure do such
people get in being so cynical? Why assume the worst? Why do some people
have such a drive to see ugliness and failings in others? What do they
gain from it?
As an interesting aside, the Talmud (Ta'anis 8a) states that in the End
of Days, all the animals will approach the snake and ask it why it bites
without eating, seemingly for no personal benefit of its own. [� 2009 by
Rabbi Dovid Rosenfeld and Torah.org, Maimonides on Life -- Cynicism: The
Joy of Inexistence, Part I, Chapter 7, Law 3(b)]
- http://www.grapple.id.au/Chronicles/saturnalia.html
guardian Snow <snowp...@eck.net.au> wrote:
> I can�t read your post Linda, they make people dumber for having even
> looked at them. You can read this the first time or the hundredth time
> this gets spammed back at you Linda but this is it.. I�m done with
> you.
>
> Rev 22:11 �He who does wrong, let him do more wrong; he who is filthy,
> let him be more filthy; he who is righteous, let him be more
> righteous; he who is set-apart, let him be more set-apart.
>
> Dear very SICK, DEMENTED STALKER JEZEBEL. Please feel free to end
> this boring spam war at any time and agree to actually follow the
> teachings of the Messiah...
>
> What this means is that you go your way in peace and make your post..
> I go my way and make my post and we have no need to ever speak to each
> other ever again...
>
> You see, I am not the one that is in love with you.. you are the one
> that is in love with me and this is why you can't let go of posting to
> me , YOU ARE OBSESSED WITH GETTING A SNOWJOB that you aren't getting.
>
> I really do not think it is too much to ask that you keep your posting
> to other people and not speak of me on a daily bases in your anal
> retentive, boring accusations.
>
> This is not my first spam war as you well KNOW. I�ve been in these on
> your side trying to help fend off people just a psychotic as you like
> CARL. I�ve patiently asked you many times to stop your attacks on me
> and even when you�re not talking to me, you�re talking about me. You
> are obsessed with ME, not your deity, not obeying any so called
> proclaimed �spirit� that you clearly do not possess unless you�re
> claiming a demon.
>
> If you need a confession, this is it: I do not like you. I have no
> desire to share your dogma, speak to you or even know anything of you.
>
> Look, I get it that your this needy person who thinks that if you call
> people Chauvinist, that people might think this has anything with you
> being a female but you know it doesn�t.. It�s about you showing a tiny
> bit of restraint and not attacking me on a daily bases as you have
> every time you post for the past YEAR.
>
> It probably is hard for you to understand, given that maybe you
> thought I was a friend of yours while you went around behaving like
> the witch that you are� the reality is that people have a right to
> post without being attacked and that is why I sided with you when Carl
> spam attacked you.
>
> I can agree to not post in threads you start and I can agree to NEVER
> mention you again and honestly if I never heard from you again, that
> would greatly please me but I respect that you have the right to post,
> unlike you. I respect that you have a freedom of speech, JUST LIKE I
> DO.
>
> You do not have to agree with me but I do ask that you let me be.
>
> I realize that this is probably your idea of a cry for help.. I
> cannot give it to you.. seek professional help or get somebody else
> that is willing to speak with you to help you so badly need.
>
> I realize that you are jealous of the fact that nobody listens to you
> are cares about you� that Ike tells you what a witch you are� What
> makes you think I disagree or agree with him? Why are you trying to
> associate us? Because you are jealous, which really is a sad site
> because�
>
> We don�t agree on dogma, we can�t communicate like civil people, why
> not just do one simple thing and end this stupid harassment NOW
> instead of ten years from now or whenever enough people complain?
>
> Is it that hard for you to just leave me alone? Are you so possessed
> by evil spirits that you can�t simply follow those teachings you swear
> you follow instead of just falsely accusing every person you talk to
> on a daily bases?
>
> As to my speaking on the dogma of Christianity, I do not attack
> individuals, I speak of an entire belief system and this is my right
> to do so.
>
> You on the other hand have made this VERY PERSONAL and so, I see it as
> completely different. If you want to speak about how evil �Messianic�
> faith is.. be my guest.. have at it. I know that the truth prevails
> and I have no fear of anything you have to say about my system of
> beliefs.
>
> Your primary problem is that you still insist on being identified as a
> Christian because you feel a need to conform to that belief system in
> some way or form but the reality is that Christians believe Apostle
> Paul and so, you are in denial of what you are by Christian standards,
> a heretic.
>
> Now, since I am Messianic, this does not bother me in the slightest.
> It doesn�t bother me to be labeled �anti Christ� either because I know
> the truth� I honor my Messiah�s teachings by doing my best to do what
> is right and I don�t just pick and choose which of the scriptures I
> keep, I keep them all that speak according to the Torah of My ELOHIM
> YAHWEH EL SHADDAI.
>
> I get it that you pretend to reject Paul and you also reject Moses
> even though you deny this fact! You deny the name of YAHWEH every
> chance you get� I can live with that.. I spoke my peace, I�m done with
> you and no more communication between us is ever needed, wanted or
> desired in any way shape or form.
>
> I don�t want you to apologize, I don�t want your forgiveness, I DON�T
> NEED IT. You can carry your hatred with you until you rot in your
> grave or� you can let it go, it�s all your choice.. everything is your
guardian Snow
> >
> > This is not my first spam war as you well KNOW. I’ve been in these on
> > your side trying to help fend off people just a psychotic as you like
> > CARL. Carl McCluskey (sai...@nettally.com)
> > and even when you’re not talking to me, you’re talking about me. You
> > are obsessed with ME, not your deity, not obeying any so called
> > claiming a demon.
> >
>
> Saturnalia became one of the most popular Roman festivals. It was marked
> by tomfoolery and reversal of social roles, in which slaves and masters
> ostensibly switched places--
Hope you are doing well Dolf. I disagreed with Carl's tactics in
addressing you as well...
dolf
> This is not my first spam war as you well KNOW. I�ve been in these on
> your side trying to help fend off people just a psychotic as you like
> I�ve patiently asked you many times to stop your attacks on me
> and even when you�re not talking to me, you�re talking about me. You
> are obsessed with ME, not your deity, not obeying any so called
> claiming a demon.
>
Saturnalia became one of the most popular Roman festivals. It was marked
by tomfoolery and reversal of social roles, in which slaves and masters
September 2001 / 18 September = 1 Tishri 5762: And after {#346} three
{#615} months {#98} we departed {G321} in a ship {#310} of Alexandria
{G221}, which had wintered {G3914} in the isle {#528}, whose sign
{G3902} was Castor {G1359} and Pollux {G1359}. And landing {#1125} at
{G1519} Syracuse {G4946}, we tarried {#990} there three {#615} days {#154}.
And from thence {G3606} we fetched a compass {#1021}, and came {G2658}
to Rhegium {#241}: and after {#346} one {G3391} day {#154} the south
{#690} wind blew {G1920}, and we came {#826} the next {G1206} day to
Puteoli {G4223}: Where {G3757} we found {#1535} brethren {G80}, and were
desired {#1038} to tarry {#990} with them seven {#386} days {#154}: and
so {G3779} we went {#826} toward {G1519} Rome {G4516}.
Nous: #72
Time: 17:40 hrs
Date: 2009.12.17
Torah: #70 #40 #40 %81 = #69
Dao: Self-Love, Holding Oneself Dear
Tetra: #79 - Difficulties
I-Ching: H39 - Obstacles
Latin: Festinus {God raised above all things} Alt: Shaahyah {Contemplate
God} {
1. HELPS DESTROY ENEMIES PROTECTS PRISONERS
2. VIGOUR, VOYAGES
3. RESEARCH
4. Sagen
}
Azor {A helper; a court}
And from thence {G1564}, when the brethren {G80} heard {G191} of us,
they came {#891} to meet {G529} us as far {G891} as Appii {G675} forum
{G5410}, and The three {#615} taverns {G4999}: whom {#270} when Paul
{#781} saw {#819}, he thanked {G2168} God {#284}, and took {#924}
courage {G2294}.
God never taught it.
Why would I?
Jude Smart-Alex-ander (ashm...@bellsouth.net): "True."
http://www.grapple.id.au/grapple.html (safari only)
And when {#375} we came {#826} to Rome {G4516}, the centurion {G1543}
delivered {#1050} the prisoners {#529} to the captain {G4759} of the
guard {G4759}: but Paul {#781} was suffered {G2010} to dwell {#895} by
himself {G1438} with a soldier {G4757} that kept {G5442} him.
And it came {#184} to pass, that after {#346} three {#615} days {#154}
Paul {#781} called {G4779} the chief {G4413} of the Jews {G2453}
together {G4779}: and when they were come {G4905} together {G4905}, he
said {#838} unto them, Men {G435} and brethren {G80}, though I have
committed {#965} nothing {#689} against {#686} the people {#301}, or
{G2228} customs {#284} of our fathers {G3971}, yet was I delivered
{#1050} prisoner {#529} from Jerusalem {G2414} into {G1519} the hands
{G5495} of the Romans {G4514}.
Nous: #23
Time: 06:50 hrs
Date: 2009.7.4
Torah: #40 #5 #300 %81 = #21
Dao: Constancy of Guiding Concepts, Emptiness & Non-Existence
Tetra: #26 - Endeavor
I-Ching: H18 - Arresting Decay
Latin: Verus {God saviour} Alt: Nanael {Pray to God} {
1. HELPS TO LIVE IN PEACE WITH ALL
2. OCCULT MAGIC & THEOLOGY
3. LEARNING
4. Teut or Theuth
}
Mahalalel {Praise (fame) of God}
Who {#780}, when they had examined {G350} me, would have let {G630} me
go {G630}, because {#15} there was no {#267} cause {G156} of death
{#631} in me. But when the Jews {G2453} spake {G483} against {G483} it,
I was constrained {G315} to appeal {#272} unto Caesar {#332}; not that I
had {#1405} ought {#510} to accuse {G2723} my nation {#334} of. For this
{G5026} cause {G156} therefore {#520} have I called {#1038} for you, to
see {#819} you, and to speak {G4354} with you: because {G1063} that for
the hope {#325} of Israel {#349} I am bound {#281} with this {G5026}
chain {G254}.
And they said {G2036} unto him, We neither {G3777} received {#730}
letters {#185} out of Judaea {#496} concerning {G4012} thee, neither
{G3777} any {#510} of the brethren {G80} that came {#366} showed {G518}
or {G2228} spake {#866} any {#510} harm {#578} of thee. But we desire
{G515} to hear {G191} of thee what {#270} thou thinkest {G5426}: for as
And when they had appointed {#1501} him a day {#154}, there came {#828}
many {#975} to him into {G1519} his lodging {G3578}; to whom {#270} he
expounded {G1620} and testified {G1263} the kingdom {G932} of God
{#284}, persuading {#904} them concerning {G4012} Jesus {G2424}, both
{#305} out of the law {#430} of Moses {G3475}, and out of the prophets
{G4396}, from morning {G4404} till {G2193} evening {#391}. And some
{G3588G3303} believed {#904} the things which were spoken {#838}, and
some {#70} believed not.
And when they agreed {G800} not among {#450} themselves {G846}, they
departed {G630}, after that Paul {#781} had spoken {G2036} one {#215}
word {#149}, Well {G2573} spake {#866} the Holy {G40} Ghost {G4151} by
Esaias {G2268} the prophet {G4396} unto our fathers {#489}, saying
{#838}, Go {G4198} unto this {G5126} people {#301}, and say {G2036},
Hearing {G189} ye shall hear {G191}, and shall not understand {G4920};
and seeing {G991} ye shall see {G991}, and not perceive {#819}: For the
heart {#136} of this {G5127} people {#301} is waxed {G3975} gross
{G3975}, and their ears {G3775} are dull {G917} of hearing {G191}, and
their eyes {G3788} have they closed {G2576}; lest {#503} they should see
{#819} with their eyes {G3788}, and hear {G191} with their ears {G3775},
and understand {G4920} with their heart {#136}, and should be converted
{G1994}, and I should heal {#421} them. [Acts 28:11-27]
"And even {G2531} as they did not like {#952} to retain {#1405} God
{#284} in their knowledge {G1922}, God {#284} gave {#1050} them over
{#1050} to a reprobate {G96} mind {#720}, to do {#965} those {#70}
things which are not convenient {#858};
Being filled {#1088} with all {#281} unrighteousness {G93}, fornication
{#316}, wickedness {#319}, covetousness {#311}, maliciousness {#52};
full {G3324} of envy {G5355}, murder {G5408}, debate {#315}, deceit
{#374}, malignity {#144}; whisperers {G5588}, backbiters {G2637}, haters
{G2319} of God {G2319}, despiteful {G5197}, proud {G5244}, boasters
{G213}, inventors {G2182} of evil {#311} things, disobedient {G545} to
parents {#728}, without {G801} understanding {G801}, covenantbreakers
{G802}, without {G794} natural affection {G794}, implacable {G786},
unmerciful {G415}:
Who {#780} knowing {G1921} the judgment {G1345} of God {#284}, that they
which commit {#1381} such {G5108} things are worthy {G514} of death
{#631}, not only {#280} do the same {G846}, but have {#1405} pleasure
{G4909} in them that do {#1381} them." [Romans 1:28-32]
The answer provides us a very basic understanding of the workings of the
human mind. Last week Rabbi Dovid Rosenfeld posed further: Why in fact
*do* people speak lashon hara? At times of course it's because *he* hurt
*me* very badly on some past occasion and so I yearn for sweet revenge.
But as we know, some people are just chronic speakers of lashon hara.
They always see bad in others -- in other individuals, in other ethnic
groups, in other types of Jews (especially ones more religious than
they), seemingly for no provocation. Now what kind of pleasure do such
people get in being so cynical? Why assume the worst? Why do some people
have such a drive to see ugliness and failings in others? What do they
gain from it?
As an interesting aside, the Talmud (Ta'anis 8a) states that in the End
of Days, all the animals will approach the snake and ask it why it bites
without eating, seemingly for no personal benefit of its own. [� 2009 by
Rabbi Dovid Rosenfeld and Torah.org, Maimonides on Life -- Cynicism: The
Joy of Inexistence, Part I, Chapter 7, Law 3(b)]
- http://www.grapple.id.au/Chronicles/saturnalia.html
guardian Snow <snowp...@eck.net.au> wrote:
> I can�t read your post Linda, they make people dumber for having even
> looked at them. You can read this the first time or the hundredth time
> this gets spammed back at you Linda but this is it.. I�m done with
> you.
>
> Rev 22:11 �He who does wrong, let him do more wrong; he who is filthy,
> let him be more filthy; he who is righteous, let him be more
> righteous; he who is set-apart, let him be more set-apart.
>
> Dear very SICK, DEMENTED STALKER JEZEBEL. Please feel free to end
> this boring spam war at any time and agree to actually follow the
> teachings of the Messiah...
>
> What this means is that you go your way in peace and make your post..
> I go my way and make my post and we have no need to ever speak to each
> other ever again...
>
> You see, I am not the one that is in love with you.. you are the one
> that is in love with me and this is why you can't let go of posting to
> me , YOU ARE OBSESSED WITH GETTING A SNOWJOB that you aren't getting.
>
> I really do not think it is too much to ask that you keep your posting
> to other people and not speak of me on a daily bases in your anal
> retentive, boring accusations.
>
> This is not my first spam war as you well KNOW. I�ve been in these on
> your side trying to help fend off people just a psychotic as you like
> CARL. I�ve patiently asked you many times to stop your attacks on me
> and even when you�re not talking to me, you�re talking about me. You
> are obsessed with ME, not your deity, not obeying any so called
> proclaimed �spirit� that you clearly do not possess unless you�re
> claiming a demon.
>
> If you need a confession, this is it: I do not like you. I have no
> desire to share your dogma, speak to you or even know anything of you.
>
> Look, I get it that your this needy person who thinks that if you call
> people Chauvinist, that people might think this has anything with you
> being a female but you know it doesn�t.. It�s about you showing a tiny
> bit of restraint and not attacking me on a daily bases as you have
> every time you post for the past YEAR.
>
> It probably is hard for you to understand, given that maybe you
> thought I was a friend of yours while you went around behaving like
> the witch that you are� the reality is that people have a right to
> post without being attacked and that is why I sided with you when Carl
> spam attacked you.
>
> I can agree to not post in threads you start and I can agree to NEVER
> mention you again and honestly if I never heard from you again, that
> would greatly please me but I respect that you have the right to post,
> unlike you. I respect that you have a freedom of speech, JUST LIKE I
> DO.
>
> You do not have to agree with me but I do ask that you let me be.
>
> I realize that this is probably your idea of a cry for help.. I
> cannot give it to you.. seek professional help or get somebody else
> that is willing to speak with you to help you so badly need.
>
> I realize that you are jealous of the fact that nobody listens to you
> are cares about you� that Ike tells you what a witch you are� What
> makes you think I disagree or agree with him? Why are you trying to
> associate us? Because you are jealous, which really is a sad site
> because�
>
> We don�t agree on dogma, we can�t communicate like civil people, why
> not just do one simple thing and end this stupid harassment NOW
> instead of ten years from now or whenever enough people complain?
>
> Is it that hard for you to just leave me alone? Are you so possessed
> by evil spirits that you can�t simply follow those teachings you swear
> you follow instead of just falsely accusing every person you talk to
> on a daily bases?
>
> As to my speaking on the dogma of Christianity, I do not attack
> individuals, I speak of an entire belief system and this is my right
> to do so.
>
> You on the other hand have made this VERY PERSONAL and so, I see it as
> completely different. If you want to speak about how evil �Messianic�
> faith is.. be my guest.. have at it. I know that the truth prevails
> and I have no fear of anything you have to say about my system of
> beliefs.
>
> Your primary problem is that you still insist on being identified as a
> Christian because you feel a need to conform to that belief system in
> some way or form but the reality is that Christians believe Apostle
> Paul and so, you are in denial of what you are by Christian standards,
> a heretic.
>
> Now, since I am Messianic, this does not bother me in the slightest.
> It doesn�t bother me to be labeled �anti Christ� either because I know
> the truth� I honor my Messiah�s teachings by doing my best to do what
> is right and I don�t just pick and choose which of the scriptures I
> keep, I keep them all that speak according to the Torah of My ELOHIM
> YAHWEH EL SHADDAI.
>
> I get it that you pretend to reject Paul and you also reject Moses
> even though you deny this fact! You deny the name of YAHWEH every
> chance you get� I can live with that.. I spoke my peace, I�m done with
> you and no more communication between us is ever needed, wanted or
> desired in any way shape or form.
>
> I don�t want you to apologize, I don�t want your forgiveness, I DON�T
> NEED IT. You can carry your hatred with you until you rot in your
> grave or� you can let it go, it�s all your choice.. everything is your