Peerage - future extinctions

[colinp]

I think it was Brooke who asked whether a “Kershaw baronetage analysis” could be produced for the peerage.  While I don’t have time to do that I thought it would be useful to produce a list of those peerages potentially in danger of extinction using the A and B formula adopted in the Kershaw baronetage analysis - I don't think this has been attempted before.  This would update and supplement the article “Fifty Years On: The Hereditary Peerage since 1965” by Stephen Kershaw in 2015 Debrett’s P&B and also various posts on heirless peerages etc on this forum and especially Henry W’s useful Wikipedia user pages on heirless titles – see Heirless titles (google.com)

A means the peerage has no heirs aged under 40 ie born after 1981 preventing extinction (or dormancy)

B means the peerage has one heir or none aged under 35 (ie born after 1986) preventing extinction (or dormancy)

* indicates the present peer is the youngest heir to the title.  In each case the date is the year of birth of the youngest heir to the title

+ indicates certain other peerages held by the peer will continue.  Dukes, Marquesses and Earls in bold.  Possible abeyances are not taken into account.

Rather perversely I have listed the A’s in rough order of putative extinction (depending on whether the precise DOB of the youngest heir is known) and the B’s in alphabetical order.

Names in italics indicate that some unknown information may change the position if it were known – explained in notes below

Please let me know any errors and omissions - I am sure there must be some

 

Trimlestown B – A* 1930;    Lawrence B – A* 1937;    Sudley B (held by Arran E) – A* 1938 +;    Alexander of Tunis E - A 1939

Simon V – A* 1940;    de Villiers B – A* 1940;   Gough V – A* 1941;     Clanmorris B - A 1942;    Bagot B – A* 1944;    Craigavon V – A* 1944;    Croft B – A* 1949;    Malvern V - A 1949;       

Ilchester E – A 1950;    Cullen of Ashbourne B – A* 1950;    Sherfield B – A* 1951;    Rootes B – A* 1951;    Rathcreedan B – A 1952;    Glendevon B – A* 1952;    Clancarty E – A* 1952;    Sinclair of Cleve B – A* 1953;    Strathspey B – A 1953;    Banbury of Southam B – A* 1953;    Northbrook B – A* 1954;    Silkin B – A 1954;    Montgomery of Alamein V – A* 1954;    Latham B – A 1954;    Abergavenny M – A* 1955 +;    ffrench B – A* 1956;    Mills V – A* 1956;    de Saumarez B – A 1956;    Gridley B – A* 1956;    Attlee E – A* 1956;    Leighton of St Mellons B  - A 1957;    Shaughnessy B – A 1957;    Stuart of Findhorn V – A 1957;    Woolton E – A* 1958;    Milner of Leeds B – A* 1959;    Norwich V – A* 1959

York D – A* 1960;    Graves B – A* 1960;    Glendyne B – A* 1960;    Margesson V – A* 1960;    Long V – A* 1960;     Tankerville E – A 1961;    Haig E – A* 1961;    Monck V – A 1961;    Monson B – A 1962;    Southwell V – A 1962;    Tenby V – A 1962;    Keyes B – A 1962;    Milverton B – A 1963;    Stratheden and Campbell B – A* 1963;    Powerscourt B (held by Powerscourt V) – A* 1963 +;    Derwent B – A 1965;    Brain B – A 1965;    May B – A* 1965;     Camden M – A 1965;   Ashton of Hyde B – A 1966;    Napier of Magdala B – B 1966;    Harris B – A 1966;    Westmeath E – A 1966 +;    Jellicoe E – A 1966 +     Gisborough B – A 1966;       Norbury E – A* 1967;    Sinha B – A 1967 – see Note 1;   Burden B – A 1967;     Gifford B – A 1967;    Lindsay of Birker B – A 1967;    Burnham B – A* 1968;    Renwick B – A 1968

St Davids V – A 1970 +;    Simon of Wythenshawe B – A 1970;    Swinfen B – A 1971;    Davidson V – A* 1971;     Doneraile V – A 1971;    Teviot B – A 1971;    Russell E – A* 1971;     Listowel E – A 1972 – see Note 2;   Blakenham V – A* 1972 - see Note 2;     Poole B – A 1972;    Addison V – A 1973;    Nelson of Stafford B – A* 1973;    Brownlow B – A 1974;   Sanderson of Ayot B – A 1974;     Coleraine B – A* 1975;    Savile B – A 1975;     Montagu of Beaulieu B – A 1975;    Robertson of Oakridge B – A* 1975;    Wilton E – A 1977;    Sutherland D – A 1977 +;    Methuen B – A 1977;     Hatherton B – A 1977;   Castle Stewart E – A 1977 (to dormancy);    Huntingdon E – A 1977 – see Note 3;   Mountevans B – A 1977;     Calverley B – A 1978;    Rennell B – A* 1978;    Cadman B – A 1979;     Hardinge of Penshurst B – A 1979 – see Note 4

Scarbrough E – A 1980;    Merrivale B – A 1980;    Baldwin of Bewdley E – A 1980;    Bolingbroke and St John V – A 1980;    Caithness E - A 1981;    Dunalley B – A 1981;   Phillimore B – A 1981;   Glenarthur B – A 1981;    Kinross B – A 1981;    Kirkwood B – A 1981;      Soulbury V – A 1981

 

Albemarle E – B 2003;    Aldington B – B 1990;    Amwell B – B 2007;    Anglesey M – B 1986 releasing Uxbridge E – B 2013 + - see Note 5;    Annaly B – B 1990;    Antrim E – B 2006;    Ashbrook V – B 2006;    Aylesford E – B 2014

Baden-Powell B – B 2009;    Balfour E – B 1990;    Beaverbrook B – B 2014;    Birkett B - B* 1982;      Bledisloe V – B 2004;    Blyth B – B 2006;    Bradbury B – B 2008;    Braybrooke B – B 2015;    Bridport V – B 1983;    Broadbridge B – B 1983;   Byron B – B 1990

Caldecote V – B 1985;    Caledon E – B 1990;    Carnock B – B 1988;    Carrington B – B 1990;    Castlemaine B – B 1989;    Cathcart E – B 1986;    Chaworth B (held by Meath E) – B 2010 +;    Chelmsford V – B 2006 +;    Churchill B – B 1990;    Clanwilliam B (held by Clanwilliam E) – B 1998 +  Clwyd B – B 2006;    Cottenham E – B 2020;    Cranworth B – B 2006;    Craven E – B* 1989   

Daventry V – B 1995;     de L’Isle V – B 1985;    Denham B – B 1997;    de Ramsey B – B 2020;    Devon E – B 2009;    Devonport V – B 1982;   Dormer B – B 1995;    Dowding B – B 1983;    Drogheda E – B 1986;    Dudley E – B 1993;    Dunleath B – B 1986

Effingham E – B 2007;    Elton B – B 2010

Fermoy B – B 2007;    Ferrard V (held by Massereene V) – B 2014 +;     Fisher B – B 1996;    Foley B – B 2006 – see Note 6;     Forres B – B 2011;    Freyberg B – B 2007

Garvagh B – B 1990;    Gerard B – B 1986;    Gloucester D – B 2007;    Gorell B – B 1993;    Goschen V – B 2001;    Gosford E – B 1988;    Gowrie E – B 1990;    Grantley B – B 2005;    Gretton B  - B 2008

Haden-Guest B – B 1996;    Hailsham V – B 1991;    Halifax E – B 2010 +;    Hampden V – B 2005;     Hampton B – B 2005;    Harlech B – B* 1986;    Harington E – B 2005;    Hawke B – B* 1995;    Hayter B – B 1986;    Hazlerigg B – B 1987;    Head V – B 1982;    Hemingford B – B 2011;    Henniker B – B 1986;    Herbert of Lea B (held by Pembroke and Montgomery E) – B 2012;    Hill V – B 1988 +;    Hives B – B 1987;    Howe E – B 1994

Inchyra B – B 1996;    Inverforth B – B 1997;    Ironside B – B 1991

Kershaw B – B 2001 – see Note 7;    Kilbracken B – B 2008;    Killanin B – B 2003;     Kimberley E – B 2017 +;    Kingsale B – B 1993;    Kingston E – B 2000 (to dorm)

Langford B – B 1987;    Leigh B – B1994;   Leinster D – B 1988;    Londesborough B – B 1990;    Lucan E – B 2020

Macdonald B – B 1982;    McGowan B – B 1985;    McNair B – B 1984;    Mansfield E – B 1988;    Marchamley B – B 2004;    Marks of Broughton B – B 1989;    Martonmere B – B 2003;    Mayo E – B 1989;    Melville V – B 2018;     Midlothian E (held by Rosebery E) – B 2005 +;    Milford Haven M - B 1991;    Morris B – B 1998;    Mount Edgcumbe E – B 1985;    Mountgarret V – B 2015;    Muskerry B – B 1986

Nathan B – B 1999;    Noel-Buxton B – B 1988;    Norton B – B 2015

Oaksey B – B 1990;    O’Hagan B – B 1985;    Onslow E – B 1984 +;    Orkney E – B 2008

Peel E – B 2015;   Piercy B – B 1989;    Poltimore B – B 1987;    Ponsonby of Shulbrede B – B 1995;    Portland E  - B 1988; 

Rankeillour B – B 2003;    Rathcavan B – B 1984;    Ravensworth B – B 1987;    Reading M – B 1986;    Redesdale B – B 2000;    Reith B – B 2006;    Rendlesham B – B 2002;    Ritchie of Dundee B – B 2004;    Rochdale V – B 2001;    Rochester B – B 1985;    Rosslyn E – B 1995;    Rossmore B – B 1983;    Rothschild B – B 1985

Sackville B – B 2000;    St Aldwyn E – B 1998;    St Germans E – B* 2004;    St Helens B – B 1986;    Samuel V – B 1983;    Scarsdale V – B 2001;    Seaford B – B 2017;    Selsdon B – B 2006;    Shaftesbury E – B 2011;    Sligo M – B 1988 +;    Snowdon E – B 1999;    Spens B – B 2000;    Stamp B  - B 1990;    Strathcarron B – B 2017;    Sudeley B – B 2004;    Sussex D – B 2019;    Swansea B – B 1999

Tedder B – B 1986;    Terrington B – B 1987;    Thomson of Fleet B – B 2006;    Trevor B – B 2004

Ullswater V – B 2009

Ventry B – B 1995

Wakehurst B – B 1986;    Waldegrave E – B 1989;    Warwick and Brooke E – B 2003 releasing Brooke B – B 2011;    Waverley V – B 1996;    Wessex E – B 2007;    Westminster D – B* 1991;    Westwood B – B 2003 – see Note8    Wigram B – B 1984;    Wimborne V – B 2016;    Winchester M – B 1999;    Wrenbury B – B 1997 – see Note 9

 

Note 1 – Sinha B (A 1967) - Dr Sunil KR Sinha (b 1939 of California) has two sons of unknown DOBs by a marriage of unknown date

Note 2 – Listowel E (A 1972) - Viscount Blakenham is married (date unknown) with a son (Inigo) of unknown DOB so may be in succession – Debrett’s indicates he is though

Note 3 – Huntingdon E (A 1977) - the youngest heir (Adam F Hastings of New South Wales) appears to have a son who may be in succession

Note 4 – Hardinge of Penshurst B (A 1979) - the half-brother (Hon Charles A Hardinge b 1967 of Germany) of present Baron is married (unknown date) with two sons (Anthony C and Alexander M) of unknown DOB’s so may be in succession

Note 5 – Uxbridge E (B 2013) (assuming Anglesey M is extinct) - kinsman William Berkeley Paget (b 1976) is married (date unknown) with a child (of unknown sex and DOB) who may be in succession

Note 6 – Foley B (B 2006) - the hp Rupert Thomas Foley (b 1970) is married and has a son of unknown DOB so may in succession

Note 7 – Kershaw B (B 2001) - there are unspecified issue of unknown DOBs of Alexander J (b 1977) and Christopher D Kershaw (b 1980) – so there may be further heirs

Note 8 – Westwood B (B 2003) – this assumes that the present Baron’s brother Hon Alistair C Westwood (b 1974) does have a son Ben (b 2003) in succession – see WESTWOOD, Rt Hon 3rd Baron (1944-2019) (google.com)

Note 9 – Wrenbury B (B 1997) - hp’s brother Samuel B Buckley (b 1973) is married and has three (unspecified) children who could also be in succession

[bx...@yahoo.com]

colinp, you're right, I did ask about a Kershaw analysis for the peerage.

What you have done here is remarkable, an important contribution to understanding the state of the peerage.

Truly outstanding!

Thank you!

[Richard R]

A really important, interesting and useful piece of work. Thank you Colin

[malcolm davies]

The only comment I would make is that sometimes the limited number of male heirs can be misleading as the heir or peer goes on to have male heirs-the current Earl of Shaftesbury is a good example.Also the Marquess of Cholmondely.

On the other hand,sometimes an abundance of heirs can be deceptive-the 1st Duke of Westminster had 7 sons but 50 years after his death  there were only 3 male heirs(the 3rd,4th & 5th Dukes) who were all 40 or over.The 5th Duke's son was born when he was 41.

[Henry W]

As ever Colin, many thanks for your hard work on this.  I will need to set aside some time to reconcile my lists to check if I've missed anything!

A couple of points from the notes that I've looked at already

Baron Hardinge of Penshurst - thanks for the note of possible sons here - this had escaped my notice and this title was on my list of no heirs under 50.

Baron Foley - another one not on my lists that could be as all heirs under 50.  However, the possibility of a birth of a new heir in the UK caused me to look into this. I have some evidence of a son born to Rupert Foley in 2015 (I have a name too) - would like to do further confirmatory work - can somebody post the details of his marriage if in a recent copy of Debrett's?

[colinp]

Henry, Brooke and Richard - thanks.

Rupert Thomas Foley m 2013 Rachel, only da of David Ambrose Staines (see Barrett-Leonard, Bt, colls) and has issue living, a son - entry in Debrett's 2019

I have spotted one omission.  There should be a + after Herbert of Lea B as of course the Earldoms of Pembroke and Montgomery will continue though they may become united with Carnarvon E which as Stephen Kershaw has said will be an intensely Welsh but somewhat unwieldy prospect.

[Henry W]

Thank you Colin, that confirms my research.

I believe that RTF has exercised a "right to be forgotten" however - searching through archive.org entries of thepeerage.com give this marriage for RTF to RS, and give the birth of a son in 2015. I have verified this birth against GRO indices - one of the middle names is a BARRETT-LENNARD family name, so I am confident the birth is connected. Nonetheless, RTF, his wife and son no longer appear on thepeerage listings, and previous details on wikipedia have been deleted from the current pages. On this basis I conclude they don't want details in the public domain. 

[Henry W]

Colin - Two issues spotted in my check through end of A 1960s:

Malvern - should be A 1949* - the only heir is older than the current peer.

Ilchester - should be A 1972 unless something has happened to Lord Strangways that I am unaware of. The final heir was born 1950.

[colinp]

Thanks Henry.  Noted re Malvern.  Ilchester - Lord Strangways d 2018 (Debrett's 2019)

[Henry W]

Thanks Colin,

I also think a note is needed for Earl CLANCARTY - https://groups.google.com/g/peerage-news/c/J-id_4ZdSJE/m/Ufe70Uvt4G4J - there seem to be Australians descended from the 1st Earl in remainder seemingly unknown to the standard sources. Could certainly fall into dormancy, but Viscount CLANCARTY created for the 2nd Earl would fall to extinction

[S. Jones]

Thank you Colin for your analysis. This is much appreciated.

I'd like to make three additions, based on the 2015 edition of Debrett's, the newest edition I've on my bookshelf:

1. Cadman barony: it seems there is an heir born in 1984 in a collateral line, in remainder, so the barony should be in category B instead of category A. The said heir is likely to be the Canadian actor Darcy Cadman.

2. Dunalley barony: This barony should also be in category B. The youngest heir, in a collateral line, was born in 1987.

3. Earldom of Cavan: Debrett's 2015 still assumes the titles will become dormant on the death of the present earl. Has this changed? If it has recently been proven that the male line of the 7th Earl is extinct, the present earl excepted, then of course Mr. Cavan Lambart is the heir presumptive to the titles.

S Jones

[colinp]

Henry - yes, I agree a note is needed Earl of Clancarty now that you have reminded me about the discussion which I hadn't kept a record of

SJ - thanks for the comments

Cadman B - I had made an assumption that Darcy Eryn Cadman was female.  I see from the internet that he married Emma Myles in 2019

Dunalley B - yes, I agree

Cavan E - I took the view that the Earldom did not belong on either list because either (a) the Earldom is dormant or (b) if Roger Lambart's claim is accepted, there are a few heirs under 35

[colinp]

Earl of Ilchester - looking at Debrett's 2015 it seems that Lord Ilchester's late son was known as Lord Stavordale rather than Lord Strangways

[Henry W]

My apologies, I appeared to make the courtesy title up. Eek!

[colinp]

These are a few notes to update the second half (“Looking Forward”) of the article “Fifty years on: the Hereditary Peerage since 1965” in Debrett’s P&B 2015 for the benefit of those with access to this edition.  Kershaw’s article deals mainly with the change in the number of peers rather than peerages

Kershaw states that (in Oct 2014) that were 98 peerages in Category A and 150 in Category B.  In fact those figures have increased over the past six and a half years and there would appear now to be 106 in Category A and 162 in Category B

PEERS OF THE BLOOD ROYAL

As predicted a Dukedom was conferred on Prince Harry which is in Cat B

Edinburgh and Cambridge have both come off the B list although both will almost certainly in due course revert to the Crown

DUKES

Sutherland has moved into Cat A.  This makes 1 extinction very probable

MARQUESSES

Anglesey has moved into Cat B making 5 in total now

Kershaw states that if Westminster were to become extinct it would release the Marquessate to the Earl of Wilton but none of the heirs to the Earl of Wilton are younger than the Duke himself.

EARLS

Lovelace has become extinct.

Baldwin of Bewdley, Caithness, Castle Stewart, Huntingdon, Scarbrough and Wilton have moved to Cat A.  This makes 18 extinctions very probable instead of 13.  Clancarty to dormancy rather than extinction

The death of the Earl of Ilchester’s son (Lord Stavordale) in 2018 puts that earldom in a worse position, the only heir being the Earl’s unmarried younger brother. 

Listowel should however move to the B list if Viscount Blakenham’s son is legitimate as seems to be the case

There are now 34 Earls on the B list instead of 25

The Marquessate of Anglesey has only one heir born after 1986 preventing its extinction and the release of the Earldom of Uxbridge (cr 1784) but that Earldom may then only have one heir itself under 35 preventing extinction (subject to Note 5 to my original post).

VISCOUNTS

Alanbroke and Churchill (which released the Barony of the same name) have become extinct

Mountgarret has moved to Cat B

Bolingbroke/St John and Soulbury have moved to Cat A.  This makes 20 extinctions probable instead of 21

Viscount Blakenham should however move to the B list if his son is legitimate as seems to be the case

There are now 21 Viscounts on the B list instead of 16

Kershaw states that if the Earldom of Peel were to become extinct it would release the Viscountcy of the same name but none of the heirs to the Viscountcy are now younger than the heir to the Earldom.  Lord Peel does now have a young grandson in succession so the Earldom is in a better position.

BARONS/LORDS

Birdwood, Gladwyn, Greenhill, Lyell, Melchett, Strang and Wardington have become extinct

Haden-Guest has moved to Cat B

Chorley and Wise are no longer on either list. 

Coleraine, Savile, Montagu of Beaulieu, Robertson of Oakridge, Methuen, Hatherton, Mountevans, Calverley, Rennell,  Hardinge of Penshurst, Merrivale,  Phillimore, Glenarthur and Kinross have moved to Cat A.  This makes 64 probable extinctions instead of 60

Kirkwood is still on the A list though in a better position as it appears the youngest heir is b 1981

Brabourne has now been absorbed by Mountbatten of Burma E.  The Barony of Churchill has indeed been released by the extinction of the Viscountcy of Churchill. The present Viscount (and Baron) Powerscourt succeeded in 2015.

There are now 97 Barons on the B list instead of 99

The Earl of Onslow has no heirs under 35 preventing release of the Barony of Onslow on the extinction of the Earldom and other subsidiary peerages.

[Henry W]

After some corresponding with Colin, I've investigated Samuel B BUCKLEY of the WRENBURY barons.  Debrett's indicates a marriage in 1999, and from this I have relative confidence that he has two sons, born 2000 and 2002 respectively. I am not certain so will not post their names, but more certainty in the elder son. I cannot make any conjecture for the 3rd child.

[malcolm davies]

Some of the extinctions that have happened or will happen are predictable,given the length the peerage has been in existence.As to whether the extinctions are to be regretted,opinions will differ.However it is remarkable that peerages such as Leinster D and Huntingdon E may become extinct.In the former case,the extinction would also see the extinction of the Earldom of Kildare,the premier earldom of Ireland created in 1316.The Fitzgeralds are a shadow of their former selves when you consider that the Earldom of Desmond became extinct in the 17th century and the hereditary knights(the Knight of Kerry,the Knight of Glin and the White Knight) are all extinct,which is rather sad.The Earldom of Huntingdon  when it becomes extinct will have been in existence for over 500 years and the male line of the family(which is traceable back to 1322) will come to an end-7 centuries later.

[Windemere]

Thanks for the preceding posts.

Actually, the 24th Green Knight of Kerry is still with us, so that title isn't extinct. He is also the 6th Baronet of Valentia, I believe. But he was born in 1940, so he is about 80 or so years old, with no heirs, so the title very likely will become extinct in the future. It is indeed a shame, as the three Fitzgerald knighthoods were very, very ancient titles. The Knight of Kerry was the feudal lord of the Dingle  area where my own family originated. The feudal Green Knights maintained their properties in that area for many years, I believe into the early Twentieth Century. But they'd long ago converted to the established Church of Ireland, and the local priests in Dingle organized the Catholic peasantry to oppose their continued lordship around the time of Irish independence in the early Twentieth Century.

The Fitzgeralds were Anglo-Norman nobles who'd acquired their lands at the time of the original conquest of Ireland, under Strongbow. According to local legends, the three original Knights were illegitimate sons of the original Fitzgerald Lord of Desmond, from a liaison he'd had with the daughter of a local Gaelic chieftain. He also had legitimate sons with his wife, who were the ancestors of the Earls of Desmond, and some of their subsidiary titles.

In Footnote #3 to the original post, it makes mention of a possible distant  extant heir to the Earldom of Huntingdon, though this is likely unconfirmed, and remains yet to be proven.

[colinp]

Stephen Kershaw has been in touch with me with some additions/amendments to my lists among which are the following:-

A*/A

add Egremont B - B 1990+ (Barony of Leconfield will continue)

Haden-Guest B - should be A 1951 rather than B 1996 as present Baron's son Thomas b 1996 is adopted

add Lauderdale E - A 1965 (to dormancy)  - due to problem in proving succession after the present Earl's son and brother

Listowel E and Blakenham V - should be both be B c2005 as Stephen has confirmed Viscount Blakenham's son Inigo born c 2005 is definitely legitimate

B*/B

Anglesey M should be B 1989 not B 1986

add Avebury B  - B 1985

Caldecote V - amend to B 2020 as son Albert recently born to heir (May 2020)

Cottenham E - delete from list as there is also a son b to George Oliver Frere Pepys in 2019

Dudley E - delete from list as there are heirs b in 1993, 2007 and 2009

add Essex E - B 1987 (to dormancy or extinction)

add Grenfell B  - B 1996

Hampden V - delete from list as there are heirs b in 1995 and 2005

add Hartismere B (held by Henniker B) - B 1985

Head V - should be B 2013 rather than B 1982

Lucan E - delete from list as sons born recently to present Earl and one of his cousins

Orkney E - delete from list as females can succeed

add Rosebery B  (held by Rosebery E)  - B 2005

add Sandford B - B 1989

add Shepherd B - B 2012

Sligo M - delete from list as Stephen has stated that Anthony Howe Browne MP has a young son and there is also good evidence of a young son among heirs in South Africa

Trevethin B - is B 1990 along with Oaksey B

[Henry W]

Baron GRIDLEY

According to Debrett's database the 3rd Baron m 2008 Marie HOOPER, and with her has 3 sons, born 2012 & 2015 (twins). These births can be confirmed in the GRO.

The Database lists an elder son by his 2nd wife, but this child was born whilst he was still married to his 1st wife and is not in remainder.

[Henry W]

Earl of KIMBERLEY

Listed by Colin as B 2017 (this is the son of the ha) in respect of the Earldom only - there are further heirs to the WODEHOUSE barony, and even more to the WODEHOUSE baronetcy.

There are two further heirs, being sons of Thomas H J W. (b 1981) [son of Hon Henry W W. (b 1956), a son of the 4th Earl by 3rd m] by his 2015 m to Hannah M GREY:

(a boy) A T W. born Q2 2018 Bristol

(a boy) A A J W. born Q4 2020 Bristol

[Henry W]

Marquess of WINCHESTER (Premier Marquess of England)

Listed by Colin as B 1999.  I am not sure if there are any new heirs out there, but I seem to have more than is currently detailed in Debrett's database.  The family (PAULET) are based in South Africa & Zimbabwe and possibly further afield, so updates are trickier, but I have been able to piece together the following from social media.

(Timothy) Guy PAULET (b 1975), son of Lord Timothy PAULET (b 1944, bro of the 18th Marquess) is married to Sally BUTTON (not sure when, but she has taken his name). They have issue: one dau (born approx 2019).

Michael (Mick) Rauol (b 1976), son of Lord Timothy PAULET (ante) married 2008 Niamh ?O'CONNOR (she appears to have taken the surname O'CONNOR PAULET).  It appears they are now resident in Doha.

[colinp]

KIMBERLEY E - Hi Henry, thx for the research.  The sons of Thomas HJ Wodehouse should be the other way round, AAJW b 2018 and ATW b 2020

[Henry W]

Earl of AYLESFORD

Listed by Colin as B 2014 (Lord Guernsey's ha). There is a further son of Lord Guernsey not listed in Debrett's database.

From the GRO indices:

(a boy) N I P F-K. born Q3 2020 Warwickshire

(Thanks Colin for correcting my previous transposition of sons!)

[colinp]

MELVILLE V should come off the B list as it appears from DPB online that Lord and Lady Melville have a second son Finn Jago A b 2020 (regd Q3/2020 Bath and NE Somerset)

[Patricia Light]

Debretts now shows that the Hon Ned Ian Finch-Knightley was indeed born in 2020.

[Henry W]

Baron KEYES

Listed by Colin as A 1962, but the Debrett's database shows one young heir: Teilo X C K. (born 2016), son of the hp (confirmed in GRO).  Title is now B 2016.

[Henry W]

Viscount STANSGATE

Should this title have been added to the B list at the beginning of 2022?  According to Debrett's database it's two youngest heirs were born 1987 & 1991 respectively.  Michael GC B. (b 1981), eldest son of Rt Hon Hilary B., is NOT in remainder as he was born the year before his parent's marriage, and so neither are Michael's sons.

Nonetheless, the title in fact has another young heir in remainder.

James L C B. (b 1983), 2nd son of Rt Hon Hilary B., m. Blake PRITCHARD according to Debrett's database.  They have issue:

(a son) E M B. - b Q3 2018 Hounslow

(a dau) A C B. - b Q3 2020 Hounslow

There seems to be further issues with Debrett's database file for this family:

The youngest son of the disclaimed 2nd Viscount is Joshua WW B. (b 1958).  He is listed as married twice with issue by 1st m: a son William Wedgwood b 1984.  According to the thepeerage.com his name is William Graydon F B. b 1985.  A GRO search shows that William Graydon F B. was born Q1 1985 (so could have been born late 1984).  Thepeerage also gives a 2nd son, Zachary D B. b 1995 - as he was born out of wedlock for either of Joshua's marriages, he is not in remainder anyway, but for the record I could find no trace of him in GRO indices.

[colinp]

LANGFORD B

It appears the son and ha of the present Baron, Hon Thomas Alexander ROWLEY-CONWY and his wife Amy Dawn nee BURGESS have a son:-

S A R-C regd Q4/2018 Denbighshire

and a daughter:

F R R-C regd Q4/2020 Denbighshire

I strongly suspect the present Baron's half-brother Hon Christopher Geoffrey Hugh's wife's maiden name was KHAN (not KAHN as DPB) in which case they have a daughter:

S A M R-C regd Q4/2016 Manchester

and a son:

A C M R-C regd Q4/2019 Manchester

(none on DPB online)

[colinp]

MACDONALD B (I 1776)

It may be worth noting that the ha to this Barony Hon Godfrey Evan Hugo Thomas MACDONALD b 1982 m 2019 James Oliver STEVENS (DPB online).  The only other heir is Lord Macdonald's brother Hon Alexander Donald Archibald MACDONALD b 1953 and apparently unm

[marquess]

So therefore then, the peerage is almost certainly going to be extinct in the current generation. How disappointing it must be for parents to see their children take such unnatural paths.

[sven_me...@web.de]

What a bad view of things

[Ivan Prekajski]

 Hon Godfrey Evan Hugo Thomas MACDONALD fail in his duties. He should have provide heir. I think about words from Queen Mary in The Crown and her words: 'CROWN MUST ALWAYS WIN'  I would say duty must always win and yet he succumbed to his own urges. 

[sven_me...@web.de]

What an outdated statement today

[Ivan Prekajski]

Maybe but also by many peerage is outdated. I think that people born in that world need to be like Her late Majesty and put duties before anything else. 

[Jesse Honey]

It depends on the individual. Some people will find their values naturally aligned with those of their family and the whole system of peerage and titles in general, others won't. Keep an inherited title going continuously for long enough and the chances of it landing with someone whose values do not align with the system slowly increases. Hence why cousins or other relatives often end up inheriting. This is not a new problem, of course- while there may be more people now choosing not to have offspring, back in the day infant mortality was higher (indeed, so was mortality from all causes) so it's a perennial issue. There have also always been people who don't quite fit in- see, for example, the 5th Duke of Portland- and long may such diversity continue, both within the peerage and in society generally. 

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[Ivan Prekajski]

Not only 5th Duke of Portland but many others. Many gay peers in past married to have children, but not all. Maybe they cherished their titles more than peers today. And society was different back then. 

[Henry W]

There have of course been gay peers as long as there have been peers.  In the past they could marry women and have legitimate heirs, all the while carrying on gay liaisons without fear of repercussions.  Their wives simply had no right to sue for divorce.

Today a gay peer who carries on in the same way risks losing half the family estate to a divorce settlement.  Surely better that they live happily in a loving relationship and pass the estate and title onto a (if necessary distant) heir rather than break the estate?

Thank you to Jesse for educating me about the 5th Duke of Portland - I had not been aware before.

[bx...@yahoo.com]

It's not only the case of gay peers, but also peers who have children out of wedlock.

For example, the last Lord Melchett was in a relationship for over 40 years, and had a son and a daughter.  The couple never married, meaning his son was ineligible to inherit the title.  With no one in succession, the title became extinct.

Brooke

[https:/www.maltagenealogy.com/LeighRayment/]

Also with "gay" peers with children. Rumours always circulated about who the real father was !! "Oh the lover of the Countess of ..." in many cases, but not only with 'gay' peers, also occurred with "straight/bi-sexual" peers..

[Jesse Honey]

Thanks Henry W! The 5th Duke of Portland was such an interesting character, whom I first read about many years ago in Notes from A Small Island by Bill Bryson, that I think my entire decades-long interest in the peerage and landed gentry stems originally from his story. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/peerage-news/605e5c52-74d9-464c-ad2e-41b7ecd23e2en%40googlegroups.com.

[benjam....@gmail.com]

Wikipedia reports a collateral branch of Earl of Castle Stewart from the 1st Earl. The earldom seem to be B 2006, not A 1977.

Is it correct?

[Henry W]

You are correct that wikipedia identifies this  heir, and this is also reflected in Debrett's database.

What Debrett's has, that Wikipedia does not, is a statement identifying unknown blocks of collaterals after heir 4 on the Wikipedia chart, i.e.

Descendants, if any, of late Andrew William Godfrey Stuart (b 1869), and George Sydney Stuart (b 1871), sons of late Andrew Godfrey Stuart, of Hobart, Tasmania, eldest son of late Andrew Thomas Stuart, eldest son of Hon Andrew Godfrey Stuart, 2nd son of 1st Earl. 

Descendants, if any, of late Arthur Burleigh Stuart (b 1876), only son of late George Joseph Stuart, 2nd son of late Andrew Thomas Stuart (ante)

As these possible collaterals are senior to the heir born 2006, the standard practice (as used by Kershaw) is to list the youngest heir before the unknown collaterals, so in this case Colin labelled the Earldom as A 1977 (to dormancy) which is correct for what Debrett's lists.

[colinp]

Baron Redesdale - this peerage should lose its B status as DPB online shows that Lord Redesdale has a second son Hon Edward A b 2006 (regd Q4 Camden)

[colinp]

From my post 23 Apr 2021 above:

"Sligo M - delete from list as Stephen has stated that Anthony Howe Browne MP has a young son and there is also good evidence of a young son among heirs in South Africa"

DPB online records the name of Anthony Howe Browne MP's son as Oliver James b 2005.  He also has a dau Grace Lily b 2007.  He m 2003 Paula HIGGINS

[colinp]

From my post 23 Apr 2021 above:

Caldecote V - amend to B 2020 as son Albert recently born to heir (May 2020)

In fact this was incorrect as Albert was born to Thomas Hampden Inskip of the Barons Noel-Buxton not to the Thomas James Inskip son of Viscount Caldecote.  

[BREMENMURRAY]

The fifth Marquess of Donegall produced a son at 81 years.On that basis any peerage with any male heirs is not necessarily doomed to extinction  

[marquess]

What you say about Donegall is true, but that was a different age when the prestiege of being a peeress was very high. In addition the large age gaps didn't matter so much. I would think that an aged peer these days might have to look for an overseas bride.

[bx...@yahoo.com]

The current Marquess of Cholmondeley and his wife produced twins, when he was 49, and the marquessate appeared headed for extinction.

Brooke

[malcolm davies]

The 5th Duke of Roxburghe produced an heir at the age of 80.At that stage he had won a lengthy legal fight to be recogised as duke and he needed to ensure the money spent did not go to waste.He was successful-the Dukes of Roxburghe are his descendants to this day.

[colinp]

An up to date list of hereditary peers with "A/B" designations produced by Stephen Kershaw can be found here -  Kershaw Hereditary Peers list 1 Jan 2025

[colinp]

ESSEX E - it may also be worth noting that the death notice for the late Countess of Essex (d 5 January 2016, don't think it was reported here) refers to the present Earl's partner Jim (not mentioned in DPB online) - 

DE VERE CAPELL
On Tuesday 5th January [2016] peacefully at Dolphinlee House Doris Margaret (Countess of Essex) Aged 94. Beloved wife of the late Robert and loving mother to Paul and his partner Jim, also a much loved sister to Jean and to sister-in-law Margaret, and aunt to many generations of nephews and nieces.......

Doris Capell Obituary (2016) - Lancaster Guardian

[marquess]

Our primary interest should be in unions that produce legitimate issue for the peerage or where other unions have been entered into that preclude that.

[Timothy M]

Considering that the majority of peerages(certainly the case in the Earldom of Essex) come with nothing besides a title I suspect most title holders would rather live their lives than exist solely to breed and raise an heir.

[BREMENMURRAY]

The Earl of Essex has heirs in Yuber City California.In fact his heir has appeared on the TV show Inside Addition 

[Jonathan]

I remember when the present Earl of Essex succeeded his father, there was some coverage in the media, particularly regarding the way his father had to spend some years to prove that he was the heir, and not their distant American cousins. The article at the time mentioned that the new earl was unmarried, so the title was likely to pass to those American cousins in any case.

Here is the article I remember in the Telegraph (you can disable Javascript to read it if you don't have a subscription):

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1492282/New-Earl-of-Essex-is-ever-so-humble.html

New Earl of Essex is ever so humble

By Nigel Bunyan and Ben Fenton 18 June 2005

The new Earl of Essex, 11th of his line and successor to some of the most powerful and feared noblemen in English history, is not your obvious toff.

Otherwise known as plain Paul Capell, the earl has spent most of his life as a teacher, drives a four-year-old Rover 25, and lives in a two-bedroom, pebble-dashed bungalow called Lindisfarne.

He is more concerned with the state of his flowering rockery than the rolling acres of country houses his ancestors once owned, and would never relinquish his comfortable sports jackets for ermine.

His neighbours in the village of Caton, near Lancaster, regard the 61-year-old bachelor simply as "a gent''.

"He's just a very good chap to live next to,'' said Ken Garton, the retired managing director of a plastics company.

"He's never lorded it over us and he's far too modest to make anything of his title.''

The earl assumed the title when his father, the 10th earl, aka Robert "Bob" Capell, from nearby Torrisholme, Morecambe, died on June 5.

Like his father, the 11th earl inherited nothing of value, merely avowed membership of an ancient and drama-soaked lineage.

Mr Capell Snr, whose widow, Doris Countess of Essex, survives him, was similarly known for his modesty. A former Hampshire county footballer, he served as a flight sergeant and PT instructor in the RAF, worked for the Post Office savings department and eventually ran a greengrocer's in Morecambe.

His life changed for ever in 1966 when an anonymous letter landed on his doormat, telling him of the author's view that he was the rightful heir to the title.

Unless he claimed it, the title would pass to a more distant relative in America.

Mr Capell spent the next two decades, and a sizeable proportion of a Post Office employee's salary, trying to prove his ancestry. He did so by tracing all the lines of heirs from the sixth Earl, who died in 1892, contacting distant relatives and collecting 80 signed documents.

He proved that his great-uncle Ethelred Capell died childless in 1929 in Australia and another great-uncle, Brownlow Capell, perished without heirs in a typhoon in the Sea of Japan in 1860.

Eventually, in 1969, Bob Capell proved that his great-grandfather was older than the great-grandfather of his rival. Debrett's upheld his claim and when his distant relative the 9th Earl died in 1981, the one-time Socialist took his seat in the Lords as the 10th Earl of Essex, Viscount Malden, Baron Capell.

He vowed that his ennoblement would not change him. "My title is the Earl of Essex,'' he said, "but call me Bob.''

His son, Ferederick Paul De Vere Capel, has long been free to use the title Viscount Malden, but few of his colleagues or pupils at Skerton County Primary School, where he was deputy headmaster and acting headmaster, knew of his aristocratic connection.

Nor that his family motto is Fide et fortitudine (By fidelity and fortitude).

Yesterday the earl, whose hobbies include walking, gardening and working out in his local gym, was reluctant to speak of his new title, beyond confirming the details of the legal battle to claim it.

One of the countess's neighbours recalled: "Bob told us he'd known from childhood that he could one day be the Earl of Essex, but it took him a long time to get the certificates sorted out.

"He was such a nice man and he loved pottering about in his garden. I don't know much about Paul, but he seems very similar."

The 11th Earl is a bachelor. After his death, the title will pass to a distant cousin in California.

[bx...@yahoo.com]

This reminds me of a similar situation, back in the late 1980's, concerning the 5th  Earl of Wharncliffe.

At the time, the media was all over the story of an American construction foreman, working in Maine, who inherited this title (and the subsidiary ones too) from an English kinsman.  Coming only 6 years after the wedding of the Prince and Princess of Wales, this seemed like another fairy tale story.

Now, the entire Wharncliffe line, including the ha, Viscount Carlton, an arborist, married with 2 sons and a daughter, live in the US.

Brooke