[osg-users] Closing of osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org, please subscribe to osg-users googlegroup

[Robert Osfield]

Hi All,

I have managed the osg-users mailing list for two decades with little issues along the way, it mostly has just looked after itself.  Alas today is the last day as it's become an attack vector for bots to an extent that it's swamping my support work.  I'll be deleting the list later today, for those that wish to continue with support please subscribe to the osg-users google group:

    https://groups.google.com/g/osg-users

This has become necessary as this year the osg-users and osg-submissions lists have been under increasing target for nefarious bots that have been attempting to subscribe a broad range of email addresses.   It's now become a deluge - I'm getting notifications of new attempts as I type this message, and unfortunately there isn't any means I can find for mailman to thwart this type of broad attack, so it's requiring an ever increasing amount of manual work from me to clear the backlog of requests. 

There's also no way for me to know whether an address is a genuine subscription so unfortunately there may be rejection that has happened because the subscriptions are swamped by dozens of fake ones, many which are plausible addresses.

I'm a C++/OpenGL/Vulkan programmer playing wack a mole with bots trying to abuse the community just isn't a good use of my time nor helpful for the osg-users community.  The osg-users google group doesn't look to be affected by this attack vector so it'll be a far better place for us to discuss OSG topics without the overhead of admin that the old mailman lists now involve.

I have already deleted the osg-submissions list as it's no longer active - github.com PR's have taken over for quite a while now.

I will leave the osg-uses mailing list up for the test of today.  Then delete it later today or tomorrow morning.

Thanks for your patience,

Robert.

[Robert Osfield]

On Sun, 4 Apr 2021 at 13:08, merspieler <mersp...@airmail.cc> wrote:

What about those who can't use the google mailing list?

I'm sorry I can't support folks for free on a platform that is requiring so much of time to keep free of spam/misuse. I've supported this osg-users mailing list for free for 20 years, unfortunately it's now become impractical to continue support.  I wouldn't be taking this step if it hasn't become a serious issue at my end.

As for can't use a google group, could you explain what issues you have with subscribing and using the google group?  Perhaps others can help suggest a way to use it.

Cheers,

Robert.

[Robert Osfield]

Hi Werner,

I am aware that google groups is far from ideal, falling back to at all is really a sign of how poorly the developer world is served on the support front.  Hopefully, one day there will be robust and easy to use/support alternatively for forum/mailing list support so we can migrate over.

In the case of the google group, it isn't limited to gmail addresses/google account you can subscribe with any email address you want.  Most of the existing osg-users google group subscribed email addresses have nothing to do with gmail.

Cheers,

Robert.

[Robert Osfield]

On Sun, 4 Apr 2021 at 15:13, merspieler <mersp...@airmail.cc> wrote:

Following the link [1] I don't see a subscribe button.

Do you not see any "Join group" or "Sign in" option?

Could you check other groups to see if there is anything different.

As far as I can see all the options for new subscriptions are enabled.  Others have successfully subscribed this afternoon.

Cheers,

Robert.

[Robert Osfield]

I have come across a trick to ban all addresses except ones for a specified domain, I've applied this, and will see if that fixes the deluge of subscription requests.  This will however reject all new subscription attempts.  At best it might provide a short term breather to give folks more time to get subscribed to the osg-users google group.

[Robert Osfield]

On Sun, 4 Apr 2021 at 19:38, merspieler <mersp...@airmail.cc> wrote:

I have to sign in? Then I'm out of luck..

I asked what you could see on screen - whether you saw a join or sign in button.

You don't need to sign in to use the googlegroup - you can simply use it as a mailing list.

 Also please remember, this is free support, I'm trying to help you and others, for free, in my own free time.

[Robert Osfield]

There appears to be a perception that you can only join the osg-users group using a Google account.  This isn't correct, plenty of folk have already joined using non google email addresses. 

I did a search online about subscribing and came across the suggestion of using a url in the form:

    http://groups.google.com/group/osg-users/boxsubscribe?email=myid

If you still are struggling to subscribe then I can manually add your email address.  Just email me directly and I can add you.

The trick of banning everyone from joining the old osg-users looks to have stopped the flood of dubious subscription requests so for now the immediate issue of me being overwhelmed with support work is over, but it's just a short term hack as it bans everyone, including genuine requests.

[Robert Osfield]

Hi Wener,

On Mon, 5 Apr 2021 at 11:30, Werner Modenbach <Werner.M...@modenbach-ac.de> wrote:

I followed your suggestion by replacing "myid" by my mail address, which isn't registered for a Google account.

The link I provided earlier wasn't consistent, I copied and modified one I found on the web and it looks like the actual link address didn't update correctly.  I think this should be the correct link: 

   http://groups.google.com/group/osg-users/boxsubscribe?email=myid

 

There was no error message and I was forwarded to the Login page.
But logging in with the mail address failed with the message: "Your Google account could not be found" (translated myself)

So I'll wait if just the login fails and I get messages from the list or if everything failed.

There is chance it was the wrong url.

 

Will keep you informed.

I haven't seen your email address on the new subscriptions list - I just OK'd 4 new join requests, 3 were for gmail addresses, one from a non gmail address so it should be possible.

I am sure joining a google group without gmail used to be more straight forward so it does look like google have been trying to hide/exclude all the obvious ways.

I will keep hunting for a good solution.

 

[Robert Osfield]

This might be of use:

https://webapps.stackexchange.com/questions/13508/how-can-i-subscribe-to-a-google-mailing-list-with-a-non-google-e-mail-address/15593#15593

Looks like you may be able to send a email to osg-users...@googlegroups.com from the email account you want to subscribe, then reply to the confirmation with a blank email, but don't click on the confirmation link.




Failing that I can manually subscribe you.


[Robert Osfield]

Hi All,

I've approved a number of new subscription to the osg-users google group today, most went through OK, but two requests failed when I clicked to approach, groups.google reported the error message:

"1 request couldn't be approved
We're unable to send a notification to this person about the action you've performed"

I don't know what the actual cause was - could be something as simple as an invalid address being used. Unfortunately the entries disappeared with no record for me to follow up on the addresses, so if your attempt has failed let me know and provide details about what method you used for subscription.

Conversely, if you have successfully subscribed today with a non google account let us know what method you use so that others can follow this same approach.

Cheers,

Robert.

[Robert Osfield]

Hi All,

I have feedback that the email subscription route is working for non google account users, so I have updated the introduction message for the osg-users googlegroup.  Could folks review what I've written and let me know if it's clear, links look correct etc.

Thanks,

Robert

-- New welcome message:

Welcome to the OpenSceneGraph user/developer group, a place for discussion about use of and development of the OpenSceneGraph, the open source, C++, OpenGL cross platform scene graph.

To  join the list with a non google account send an empty email to: osg-users...@googlegroups.com,. When you receive a confirmation email reply to it with another empty email rather than clicking confirm - this avoid any google account you have being used.

[Rizzen]

Good day Robert,

The message is correct in how I joined this email subscription group without using a Gmail address.

Is there an email subscription group for VSG?

Rizzen

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OpenSceneGraph Users" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to osg-users+...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/osg-users/CAFN7Y%2BUOaGedNZVaE3JfZxh1JE1%2BwDa3BcDhSmFY9F2XoTFO9A%40mail.gmail.com.

[Robert Osfield]

On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 at 13:39, Rizzen <riz...@darkstar.co.za> wrote:

The message is correct in how I joined this email subscription group without using a Gmail address.

Thanks for the confirmation.

 

Is there an email subscription group for VSG?

There's been a vsg-users google group for a couple of years, but no instructions for how to subscribe without a google account.  Now I've got the confirmation that it works I've added the same instructions to vsg-users:

    https://groups.google.com/g/vsg-users

Seems like a perfect opportunity for folks to test that I updated the links correctly :-)

[Robert Osfield]

Hi All,

It looks like the subscribe by email approach is working well for non-Google users which is great news. 

Unfortunately all it's not yet perfect, a few subscriptions are failing when I attempt to confirm the pending request with the googlegroup server reporting that it can't confirm the address.  This seems to be happening for a range of addresses, initially it looked random but now I've had two separate subscription attempts from the same domain fail right after each other with the same error so it's starting to look like some domains aren't playing nice with the googlegroup server for some reason.

Three of the addresses were US gov domains - could that be a connection?

If your subscription has failed then please email me directly on robert.osfield at gmail.com.  I am hoping that I'll be able to just subscribe to you directly.  Knowing a pattern of which types of domain fail could also help with figuring out a solution.

Cheers,

Robert.

[Robert Osfield]

On Tue, 6 Apr 2021 at 15:16, Robert Osfield <robert....@gmail.com> wrote:

Unfortunately all it's not yet perfect, a few subscriptions are failing when I attempt to confirm the pending request with the googlegroup server reporting that it can't confirm the address.  This seems to be happening for a range of addresses, initially it looked random but now I've had two separate subscription attempts from the same domain fail right after each other with the same error so it's starting to look like some domains aren't playing nice with the googlegroup server for some reason.

I just followed up directly with one of the subscription requests and they did reply to the confirmation email, and checking the same address - it's in the membership list.  This suggests the googlegroup error that I got on clicking to agree to subscription may not be a sign of complete failure.

I don't know what this means, hopefully it'll become clearer.