Who's cloud?

[Alan Browne]

https://nordvpn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Screen-Shot-2016-10-12-at-1.20.34-PM.png

[Alan Browne]

On 2020-04-27 12:06, Alan Browne wrote:
> https://nordvpn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Screen-Shot-2016-10-12-at-1.20.34-PM.png
>

Doh! Of course I posted the wrong link ... correction:
https://nordvpn.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/cloud_security_meme.png

[Tony Cooper]

I thought, from the Subject line, that you were asking "Who Is Cloud?"

"Whose Cloud?" is the question.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what Tony Cooper <tonyco...@invalid.com> wrote :

> "Whose Cloud?" is the question.

While Tony Cooper (who oft posts to alt.usage.english) has a point...

There's a reason the cloud trend is marked among mobile device users...
o The less technical someone is... the more they tend to rely on the cloud.

For even the simplest of things... such as transferring photo data.
o Instead of learning basics of USB & Wi-Fi bidirectional file transfer.

For example you can turn any iOS device into a r/w USB stick in seconds.
o For free... using only native software... and native commands.

That's read/write to the _entire_ visible file system of _any_ iOS device!
o Just plug it in, run 1 command, & any iOS device on the planet is yours.

NOTE: You do not need to own the iOS device for this to work perfectly.
NOTE: It's even easier with Android so this isn't iOS vs Android stuff.

For iOS, you just have to know a single simple (but non-intuitive trick).
o Simultaneously slide Windows Linux iOS Android files back and forth
over USB at 7GB per minute speeds using 100% native devices
(no proprietary software needed)
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/WqIDiVbawRs/pwxzu7LMCAAJ>
--
Divorcing yourself from the cloud requires you to put your brain in gear.
o Do people of reasonable technical ability store their private data
on the Internet (if so, for what gain?)
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/mBIZ-8jGdmk>

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-04-27 9:46 a.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> In response to what Tony Cooper <tonyco...@invalid.com> wrote :
>
>> "Whose Cloud?" is the question.
>
> While Tony Cooper (who oft posts to alt.usage.english) has a point...
>
> There's a reason the cloud trend is marked among mobile device users...
> o The less technical someone is... the more they tend to rely on the cloud.

And (of course) it is a very useful capability.

>
> For even the simplest of things... such as transferring photo data.
> o Instead of learning basics of USB & Wi-Fi bidirectional file transfer.

Which is all fine...

...until you have a multiplicity of devices.

I have a Mac, an iPhone and an iPad, and I'd like them all to have the
same contacts and calendars and photos, etc.

>
> For example you can turn any iOS device into a r/w USB stick in seconds.
> o For free... using only native software... and native commands.

I don't want it to be a r/w USB stick. That's a significant downgrade in
functionality from what my devices are right now.

[Alan Browne]

I was looking for my daily English correction. Thanks.

[nospam]

In article <u5udnaxgStr0njrD...@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
<bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:

> >
> > https://nordvpn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Screen-Shot-2016-10-12-at-1.2

> > 0.34-PM.png
>
> Doh! Of course I posted the wrong link ... correction:
> https://nordvpn.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/cloud_security_meme.png

it's rather amusing that a vpn provider, who can see *everything* sent
over its network, would host such an image, especially one that's known
for being linked to data-mining companies.

[newshound]

Horses for courses. It's great having contacts and calendars in the
cloud. I have at least 100GB of photos and probably 1TB of video, and
that is staying firmly on my spinning rust.

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote :

> it's rather amusing that a vpn provider, who can see *everything* sent
> over its network, would host such an image, especially one that's known
> for being linked to data-mining companies.

Hi nospam,

The main problem with you apologists is you brazenly make everything up.
o Your entire belief system is usually based on exactly zero actual facts.

FACTS:

*Your credibility is no better than the result of a brain-dead coin toss*...
o *So I had to look it up to see if there's truth in what you're claiming*...

Search: <https://duckduckgo.com/&q=nordvpn+data+mining>

First hit in Aug2018(is a very confusingly written article):
o Tesonet Data Mining Company Linked to NordVPN, Protonmail, ProtonVPN
<http://vpnscam.com/tesonet-data-mining-company-owns-nordvpn-protonmail-protonvpn/>
Normally I quote their key point, but it was mostly heresay,
so I'll just quote this, which is how they organize their points...
"Coincidence? WE DON㎡ THINK SO! "

Moving to the second hit for August 2018:
o HolaVPN and NordVPN Partners in Data Mining Bot Network?
<https://vpnscam.com/hola-vpn-and-nordvpn-partners-in-data-mining-bot-network/>

Again, it's confusing as all hell, and they even say so...
(this is verbatim, in order, with nothing skipped)

"Now, we▔e had another anonymous Reddit user post a meticulous
examination of how NordVPN, ProtonVPN, Tesonet, and HolaVPN are somehow
connected in a data-mining organization. This might just be one of the
biggest VPN news stories ever, and it will impact how customers view
NordVPN, ProtonVPN, and Tesonet. Can you trust these companies with your
data? The chart is a big confusing..."

Two wasted efforts let's move to the third from a month later, Sept 2018)
o Confusion in the VPN industry: is NordVPN being defamed?
<https://vpnpro.com/blog/confusion-in-the-vpn-industry-is-nordvpn-being-defamed/>
"For those who have not been following, various entities have recently
accused NordVPN of belonging to a data-mining corporation in Lithuania
Tesonet. The implication was that the VPN secretly enlists your computer
to scrape the net for the profit of this Lithuanian corp. Our stance on
the matter was that the facts, while not necessarily peachy, do not bear
out these wild accusations."

Moving to the fourth hit gets more of the same... August 30th, 2018:
o NordVPN promises independent security audit amid data mining allegations
<https://www.vpncompare.co.uk/nordvpn-security-audit-data-mining-allegations/>

Given nospam's credibility is worse than the result of a coin toss...
o All I ask of nospam is a cite of the facts he used for his claims.
"Popular VPN provider NordVPN has issued a stringent denial of claims,
which have been circulating online, that the company has been involved in
data mining. They have even gone so far as to commission an independent
security audit to try and prove the claims to be false."
--
The main problem with Apple apologists is they brazenly make everything up.

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what Alan Baker <notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote :

> I have a Mac, an iPhone and an iPad, and I'd like them all to have the
> same contacts and calendars and photos, etc.

Hi Alan Baker,

You proved my point rather well, thank you.
o The less technical you are, the more you rely on MARKETING messaging.

Your implication is that you can't share outside the walled prison garden.
o And yet that's just dead wrong.

Marketing _fed_ you to believe you can't share outside the prison garden.
o But it's still just dead wrong.

I have no problem sharing contacts, calendars & photos between my devices.
o And I have Linux/Windows (dual boot), Android, and iOS devices.

The difference is lots of people utterly lack any technical capability:
o Which has always been my point about most Apple owners & cloud users.
--
The lower-intelligence people tend to gravitate to MARKETING messaging.

[Alan Browne]

Nord seem to take offense at those allegations:
https://nordvpn.com/blog/nordvpn-false-allegations/

IAC:

Since most e-mail is SSL (or better), it's a non issue other than
perhaps traffic analysis.

Almost all webpages are now https, so another non issue (traffic
analysis aside).

And if those two issues bother you there are "double hop" VPNs and/or
wrap it all in Tor.

[Alan Browne]

On 2020-04-27 16:01, newshound wrote:
>
> Horses for courses. It's great having contacts and calendars in the
> cloud. I have at least 100GB of photos and probably 1TB of video, and
> that is staying firmly on my spinning rust.

Agree. Stuff I need 'anywhere' goes to the cloud (2 different
providers, 1 who is very protective of data, the other one a little
vague. The vague one gets unimportant stuff or encrypted stuff).

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-04-27 2:03 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> In response to what Alan Baker <notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote :
>
>> I have a Mac, an iPhone and an iPad, and I'd like them all to have the
>> same contacts and calendars and photos, etc.
>
> Hi Alan Baker,
>
> You proved my point rather well, thank you.
> o The less technical you are, the more you rely on MARKETING messaging.

Nope.

I rely on the reality that I can share my information in the manner I
prefer.

>
> Your implication is that you can't share outside the walled prison garden.
> o And yet that's just dead wrong.

I made no such implication.

>
> Marketing _fed_ you to believe you can't share outside the prison garden.
> o But it's still just dead wrong.

I don't believe that and for years did share it using other techniques,
so it is YOU who is "dead wrong"

>
> I have no problem sharing contacts, calendars & photos between my devices.
> o And I have Linux/Windows (dual boot), Android, and iOS devices.

Bully for you!

Describe your personal technique for sharing (say) your contacts.

>
> The difference is lots of people utterly lack any technical capability:
> o Which has always been my point about most Apple owners & cloud users.

I don't lack the ability, but I do recognize when useful tools are
created to reduce the hassle of doing something.

People SHOULDN'T need technical ability to use devices such as iPhones,
iPads and personal computers.

The whole history of computing is one of making it easier and easier for
ordinary people to do what they want to do without NEEDING technical skills.

[nospam]

In article <MpadnRgfr7OGzTrD...@giganews.com>, Alan Browne

<bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:

> >>
> >> Doh! Of course I posted the wrong link ... correction:
> >> https://nordvpn.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/cloud_security_meme.png
> >
> > it's rather amusing that a vpn provider, who can see *everything* sent
> > over its network, would host such an image, especially one that's known
> > for being linked to data-mining companies.
>
> Nord seem to take offense at those allegations:
> https://nordvpn.com/blog/nordvpn-false-allegations/

of course they take offense, as would anyone being accused of
something, and they are not going to admit any wrongdoing either.

the vpn market is incredibly sleazy. most vpn review site are fronts to
shill for vpn providers and bash others.

it all comes down to whom you trust, your isp or some unknown vpn
provider in some unknown location with questionable claims.

<https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/21/20925065/nordvpn-server-breach-vpn-
traffic-exposed-encryption>
NordVPN says one of its servers was breached in March 2018,
exposing some of the browsing habits of customers who were using
the VPN service to keep their data private. NordVPN says the server,
located in Finland, did not contain activity logs, usernames, or
passwords. But the attacker would have been able to see what
websites users were visiting during that time, a company advisor
said, although the content of the websites likely would have been
hidden due to encryption.

> IAC:
>
> Since most e-mail is SSL (or better), it's a non issue other than
> perhaps traffic analysis.
>
> Almost all webpages are now https, so another non issue (traffic
> analysis aside).

traffic analysis is the problem.

> And if those two issues bother you there are "double hop" VPNs and/or
> wrap it all in Tor.

that's not a perfect solution either.

the point is that a vpn provider rightly claiming that a cloud is
someone else's computer without also claiming that their own service is
the very same thing is deliberately being misleading.

[Eric Stevens]

On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 10:57:07 -0700, Alan Baker
<notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote:

>On 2020-04-27 9:46 a.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
>> In response to what Tony Cooper <tonyco...@invalid.com> wrote :
>>
>>> "Whose Cloud?" is the question.
>>
>> While Tony Cooper (who oft posts to alt.usage.english) has a point...
>>
>> There's a reason the cloud trend is marked among mobile device users...
>> o The less technical someone is... the more they tend to rely on the cloud.
>
>And (of course) it is a very useful capability.
>
>>
>> For even the simplest of things... such as transferring photo data.
>> o Instead of learning basics of USB & Wi-Fi bidirectional file transfer.
>
>Which is all fine...
>
>...until you have a multiplicity of devices.
>
>I have a Mac, an iPhone and an iPad, and I'd like them all to have the
>same contacts and calendars and photos, etc.

I have a PC, an iPad and an iPhone and they all quite happily share
the same contacts and calendar.

>
>>
>> For example you can turn any iOS device into a r/w USB stick in seconds.
>> o For free... using only native software... and native commands.
>
>I don't want it to be a r/w USB stick. That's a significant downgrade in
>functionality from what my devices are right now.

--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

[Alan Browne]

On 2020-04-27 18:25, nospam wrote:

> that's not a perfect solution either.

I'm so happy for you, that in a world of imperfection, you'll always
have something to blow out of proportion.

[Lewis]

Not for individual users, however. Also, this has led to a change in how
some VPNs work (don't know if Nord is one that has changed or not). The
current VPN tech is to spin-up a unique virtual server with NO WRITE
ACCESS to disks, for each VPN connection. As soon as the connection is
dropped, the virtual server goes away, along with all the data
associated with it.

There are good and vetted VPN services out there, but it can be had to
find them through the landscape of hundreds of fake sites that are
posing as third-party review sites but are nothing more than shills or
fronts.

> the point is that a vpn provider rightly claiming that a cloud is
> someone else's computer without also claiming that their own service is
> the very same thing is deliberately being misleading.

Storing encrypted data on "someone else's computer" sure sounds like a
very efficient use of my storage space to me. I'll do that all day long
everyday.

--
Margo: Is it me or is morgue security ridiculously lax?
Quentin: Well I don't think stealing corpses is generally a thing.
Margo: Should be. Kinda fun.

[Ant]

Both are good though! Any more? ;)
--
..!.. heat wave & illness like COVID-19/2019-nCoV/SARS-CoV-2! :(
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org /
/ /\ /\ \ http://antfarm.ma.cx. Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what Alan Baker <notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote :

> Describe your personal technique for sharing (say) your contacts.

Alan,

Only the dumbest (and rudest) people use the cloud, Alan - for contacts.

Only an apologist would think to claim sharing contacts requires the cloud!
o Fact is, uploading contact to the net is _rude_ (& ignorant).

Fact is, I have threads on how _rude_ it is for imbeciles like you
prove to be to brainlessly upload my personal contact information
and that of my children and grandchildren to the Internet, just because
morons like you are too stupid to figure out that contacts are simply
a text file in a standard non-proprietary format.

BEGIN:VCARD
VERSION:4.0
N:Gump;Forrest;;Mr.;
FN:Forrest Gump
ORG:Bubba Gump Shrimp Co.
TITLE:Shrimp Man
PHOTO;MEDIATYPE=image/gif:http://www.example.com/dir_photos/my_photo.gif
TEL;TYPE=work,voice;VALUE=uri:tel:+1-111-555-1212
TEL;TYPE=home,voice;VALUE=uri:tel:+1-404-555-1212
ADR;TYPE=WORK;PREF=1;LABEL="100 Waters Edge\nBaytown\, LA 30314\nUnited States of America":;;100 Waters Edge;Baytown;LA;30314;United States of America
ADR;TYPE=HOME;LABEL="42 Plantation St.\nBaytown\, LA 30314\nUnited States of America":;;42 Plantation St.;Baytown;LA;30314;United States of America
EMAIL:forre...@example.com
REV:20080424T195243Z
x-qq:21588891
END:VCARD

> I don't lack the ability, but I do recognize when useful tools are
> created to reduce the hassle of doing something.

You're uploading contacts & personal photos to the Internet, Alan...
o That proves that you're both rude, and ignorant.

> People SHOULDN'T need technical ability to use devices such as iPhones,
> iPads and personal computers.

Android owners simply plug in to _any_ computer on the planet, Alan.
o They don't need hundreds of megabytes of bloatware to copy content.

> The whole history of computing is one of making it easier and easier for
> ordinary people to do what they want to do without NEEDING technical skills.

Alan,

You need to look at the many threads proving how brain dead iOS is.
o You can't do the _simplest_ things with iOS.

Only you apologists are so stupid that you don't see the obvious facts.

FACT:

I could, off the top of my head, list a score of things I easily
do on Android all day, every day, which are _impossible_ to do on iOS.

o Oh, say, like automatic call recording...
<https://i.postimg.cc/d096z8jG/callrecorder06.jpg>

For example, I can organize my homescreen any way I want it organized.
<https://i.postimg.cc/7htCcc8r/iconnaming01.jpg>

FACT:
On iOS, it's just impossible to do something even _that_ simple.
--
Apple MARKETING gleefully funnels the users into the walled prison garden.

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what Ant <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote :

> Both are good though! Any more? ;)

Jokes:
<https://i.imgur.com/1xT5oGh.jpg>

Facts:
o What Is "the Cloud" - and Where Is It?
<https://gizmodo.com/what-is-the-cloud-and-where-is-it-1682276210>

Marketing:
o Steve Jobs describes the cloud, in 1997
<https://youtu.be/yE3Ta_NK4-I>
--
Understanding MARKETING gimmicks requires basic adult cognitive skills.

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote :

> Storing encrypted data on "someone else's computer" sure sounds like a
> very efficient use of my storage space to me. I'll do that all day long
> everyday.

JOKES:
<http://cloudtweaks.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/cloud_91.jpg>

FACTS:
The adult point is that the "CLOUD" is simply "someone else's computer"...
o Which means they can give that data away to anyone who asks for it.

And they do... (e.g., Apple does it all the time, as you're well aware).
o *iCloud backups are [N]OT encrypted*, by JF Mezei, Jan 21, 2020
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/-EA9TYUeVhk/gutU2V0sDQAJ>

The only way to prevent that is to use encryption _before_ you upload your
personal contacts, your personal photos, your personal information, etc.,
o ... to "someone else's computer".
--
TRUTH is a matter of consistent application of facts to every conversation.

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what Eric Stevens <eric.s...@sum.co.nz> wrote :

>>I have a Mac, an iPhone and an iPad, and I'd like them all to have the
>>same contacts and calendars and photos, etc.
>
> I have a PC, an iPad and an iPhone and they all quite happily share
> the same contacts and calendar.

JOKES:
<https://tinyurl.com/trust-me-im-the-cloud>

With respect to using "the cloud" to move files among your own devices...
o It's my premise that only the dumbest people use the cloud for that purpose.

Premise:
1. It's _rude_ to store other people's contact & calendar info on that cloud.
2. It's _only_ ignorant people who think they must store that info on the cloud.

Why should that information _not_ be on "the cloud"?
o It's private information that people should not be sharing with the world.

Fact:
A common non-proprietary text format for contacts is VCARD.
o A common non-proprietary text format for calendars is VCAL.

Neither file requires stores on someone else's computer (aka, the cloud).
o Yet millions of clueless people do exactly what MARKETING tells them to do.

VCARD:

BEGIN:VCARD
VERSION:4.0
N:Gump;Forrest;;Mr.;
FN:Forrest Gump
ORG:Bubba Gump Shrimp Co.
TITLE:Shrimp Man
PHOTO;MEDIATYPE=image/gif:http://www.example.com/dir_photos/my_photo.gif
TEL;TYPE=work,voice;VALUE=uri:tel:+1-111-555-1212
TEL;TYPE=home,voice;VALUE=uri:tel:+1-404-555-1212
ADR;TYPE=WORK;PREF=1;LABEL="100 Waters Edge\nBaytown\, LA 30314\nUnited States of America":;;100 Waters Edge;Baytown;LA;30314;United States of America
ADR;TYPE=HOME;LABEL="42 Plantation St.\nBaytown\, LA 30314\nUnited States of America":;;42 Plantation St.;Baytown;LA;30314;United States of America
EMAIL:forre...@example.com
REV:20080424T195243Z
x-qq:21588891
END:VCARD

VCAL:
VisionDocument=VCAL;
VisionVersion=1.0;
X-Generator=Vision Calendar;
{calendar}
Name=Test%spCalendar;
X-Description=Some%spdescription%spabout%spmy%spcalendar;
{events}
EVENT[1]=START_T:07+29+30;END_T:07+45+59;START_D:06+11+2004;END_D:06+11+2004;
LAST_DAY:false;LOCATION:Home;NAME:Test;NOTE:Test;CATEGORIES:%c1+%c2
{tasks}
TASK[1]=START_T:07+29+30;END_T:07+45+59;START_D:06+11+2004;END_D:06+11+2004;
LAST_DAY:false;LOCATION:Home;NAME:Test;NOTE:Test;CATEGORIES:%c2;
STATUS:important;PRIORITY:high;COMPLETED;false;PERCOMPLETE:90;
{categories}
CATEGORY[1]=NAME:personal;COLOUR:blue;
CATEGORY[2]=NAME:holiday;COLOUR:red;
{X-filehistory}
X-FILEHISTORY=true;
X-BEGIN-->Sat, 06 Nov 2004 07:36:15 SAST;
X-SAVE-->Sat, 06 Nov 2004 07:37:00 SAST;
X-SAVE-->Sat, 06 Nov 2004 07:44:52 SAST;
X-CREATE-->Sat, 06 Nov 2004 07:50:25 SAST "wdp feed";
--
The dumber a person is, the more they put your data on the cloud.

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote :

> Nord seem to take offense at those allegations:
> https://nordvpn.com/blog/nordvpn-false-allegations/

JOKES:
<https://i.pinimg.com/originals/11/47/c6/1147c64872bc006ba3ff307a18446164.jpg>

ASSESSMENT:
*As usual, a brainless coin toss is more accurate than nospam.*

FACTS:
I didn't know about the NordVPN allegations...
o Until nospam claimed them.

And I'm no fan of NordVPN...
o Nor any commercial VPN provider...

And everyone knows I care a ton about PRIVACY on the Internet!
o Hence, as an intelligent adult, I simply looked up the facts.

*As usual, a brainless coin toss is more accurate than nospam.*
--
Apologists' brains always contain fabricated belief systems.

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote :

> I'm so happy for you, that in a world of imperfection, you'll always
> have something to blow out of proportion.

Joke:
<https://www.apple.com/lae/privacy/>

The problem with nospam is he doesn't care about his lack of credibility.
o A coin toss result is more accurate than what nospam claimed...

And I'm no fan of NordVPN or any commercial VPN provider.
o I'm simply a fan of facts & people who display adult cognitive skills.

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote :

> Agree. Stuff I need 'anywhere' goes to the cloud (2 different
> providers, 1 who is very protective of data, the other one a little
> vague. The vague one gets unimportant stuff or encrypted stuff).

Alan,

Joke:
<https://i.pinimg.com/originals/98/1a/99/981a9973393cb5116e9bea15eef0eeda.jpg>

Facts:
o CS573 Data privacy and security in the cloud
<https://www.slideserve.com/dorit/cs573-data-privacy-and-security-in-the-cloud>

Assessment of fact:
o iCloud backups are NOT encrypted, by JF Mezei
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/-EA9TYUeVhk/gutU2V0sDQAJ>

Apple scans your uploaded data for _anything_ they want to scan it for.
o Please read the thread for the facts _before_ you brazenly dispute them.
--
To understand MARKETING gimmicks requries adult cognitive skills.

[Patrist Cumming]

Re: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 14:19:52 -0400, Alan Browne:

> I was looking for my daily English correction. Thanks.

it was fine. don't worry about it.

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-04-27 7:08 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> In response to what Alan Baker <notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote :
>
>> Describe your personal technique for sharing (say) your contacts.
>
> Alan,
>
> Only the dumbest (and rudest) people use the cloud, Alan - for contacts.

That's not a description of your technique.

And you've snipped a lot of material relevant to this topic.

>
> Only an apologist would think to claim sharing contacts requires the cloud!
> o Fact is, uploading contact to the net is _rude_ (& ignorant).

Since I didn't claim that...

>
> Fact is, I have threads on how _rude_ it is for imbeciles like you prove
> to be to brainlessly upload my personal contact information and that of
> my children and grandchildren to the Internet, just because morons like
> you are too stupid to figure out that contacts are simply a text file in
> a standard non-proprietary format.
>
> BEGIN:VCARD
> VERSION:4.0
> N:Gump;Forrest;;Mr.;
> FN:Forrest Gump
> ORG:Bubba Gump Shrimp Co.
> TITLE:Shrimp Man
> PHOTO;MEDIATYPE=image/gif:http://www.example.com/dir_photos/my_photo.gif
> TEL;TYPE=work,voice;VALUE=uri:tel:+1-111-555-1212
> TEL;TYPE=home,voice;VALUE=uri:tel:+1-404-555-1212
> ADR;TYPE=WORK;PREF=1;LABEL="100 Waters Edge\nBaytown\, LA 30314\nUnited
> States of America":;;100 Waters Edge;Baytown;LA;30314;United States of
> America
> ADR;TYPE=HOME;LABEL="42 Plantation St.\nBaytown\, LA 30314\nUnited
> States of America":;;42 Plantation St.;Baytown;LA;30314;United States of
> America
> EMAIL:forre...@example.com
> REV:20080424T195243Z
> x-qq:21588891
> END:VCARD
>

That's not a description of your technique, either.

>> I don't lack the ability, but I do recognize when useful tools are
>> created to reduce the hassle of doing something.
>
> You're uploading contacts & personal photos to the Internet, Alan...
> o That proves that you're both rude, and ignorant.

Nope.

>
>> People SHOULDN'T need technical ability to use devices such as
>> iPhones, iPads and personal computers.
>
> Android owners simply plug in to _any_ computer on the planet, Alan.
> o They don't need hundreds of megabytes of bloatware to copy content.

Non-responsive.

>
>> The whole history of computing is one of making it easier and easier
>> for ordinary people to do what they want to do without NEEDING
>> technical skills.
>
> Alan,
>
> You need to look at the many threads proving how brain dead iOS is.
> o You can't do the _simplest_ things with iOS.

Deflection.

>
> Only you apologists are so stupid that you don't see the obvious facts.
>
> FACT:
>
> I could, off the top of my head, list a score of things I easily do on
> Android all day, every day, which are _impossible_ to do on iOS.

I bet you can't.

>
> o Oh, say, like automatic call recording...
>  <https://i.postimg.cc/d096z8jG/callrecorder06.jpg>

Easily done on iOS.

>
> For example, I can organize my homescreen any way I want it organized.
>  <https://i.postimg.cc/7htCcc8r/iconnaming01.jpg>

Easily done on iOS

>
> FACT:
> On iOS, it's just impossible to do something even _that_ simple.

Nope.

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what Alan Baker <notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote :

> And you've snipped a lot of material relevant to this topic.

Alan,

A vcard file is a _text_ file for heavens sake.

If the only way you can get a text file from one device to the other, (both
of which are in your own house), is to use the cloud, then you've proven
the point already.

Particularly when that text file contains the names and numbers of your
friends and family (and neighbors and coworkers) many of whom might not
want their names, addresses, and phone numbers splattered all over "someone
else's computer" such as at Apple or Google or Amazon (all of whom _will_
be hacked).
--
Anyone who needs the cloud to transfer files is proving they're stupid.

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-04-27 11:28 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> In response to what Alan Baker <notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote :
>
>> And you've snipped a lot of material relevant to this topic.
>
> Alan,
>
> A vcard file is a _text_ file for heavens sake.
>

Yes... ...but presenting one doesn't describe your technique for keeping
contacts on all your devices in sync.

So describe your technique...

> If the only way you can get a text file from one device to the other, (both
> of which are in your own house), is to use the cloud, then you've proven
> the point already.
>
> Particularly when that text file contains the names and numbers of your
> friends and family (and neighbors and coworkers) many of whom might not
> want their names, addresses, and phone numbers splattered all over "someone
> else's computer" such as at Apple or Google or Amazon (all of whom _will_
> be hacked).

You get that your data on iCloud is encrypted, right?

Simply gaining access to one of Apple's servers won't get you access to
anyone's contacts or anything else for that matter.

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what Alan Baker <notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote :

> Yes... ...but presenting one doesn't describe your technique for keeping
> contacts on all your devices in sync.

Alan,

Any modern contact app can import & export an industry standard VCARD file.
o It's basic functionality: if your app doesn't have it - it's primitive.

And any decently modern phone can sync a text file across your own devices.
o VCARD files are text: if your phone can't copy them - it's primitive.
--
Bringing TRUTH to the Apple newsgroups through simple application of facts.

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-04-27 11:51 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> In response to what Alan Baker <notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote :
>
>> Yes... ...but presenting one doesn't describe your technique for
>> keeping contacts on all your devices in sync.
>
> Alan,
>
> Any modern contact app can import & export an industry standard VCARD file.
> o It's basic functionality: if your app doesn't have it - it's primitive.

I'm completely aware of that...

>
> And any decently modern phone can sync a text file across your own devices.
> o VCARD files are text: if your phone can't copy them - it's primitive.

...but it doesn't describe how you can keep multiple contact lists...

...IN SYNC.

Make changes on your phone...


...and ensure they get back onto your computer...

...while making sure that it doesn't overwrite changes you've made on
your computer already.

Explain how you work all this.

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 27.04.20 um 23:35 schrieb Alan Browne:

> IAC:
>
> Since most e-mail is SSL (or better), it's a non issue other than
> perhaps traffic analysis.
>
> Almost all webpages are now https, so another non issue (traffic
> analysis aside).
>
> And if those two issues bother you there are "double hop" VPNs and/or
> wrap it all in Tor.

+1

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 28.04.20 um 00:25 schrieb nospam:

>
> that's not a perfect solution either.

But the solution is by far the securest and serves no commercial interests.

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 28.04.20 um 01:40 schrieb Alan Browne:

+1

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what Alan Baker <notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote :

> Explain how you work all this.

Alan,

Good. That was the first adult question I've heard from you.

o We can now _begin_ to add value when you stop denying the obvious.
<https://i.postimg.cc/QtTs7bXX/contact01.jpg>

These are what I would consider obvious widely-known basics:
1. We've established the cloud is "someone else's computer";
2. MARKETING _loves_ to give you "their computer" for a reason;
3. They make it so easy that dumb people fall for cloud MARKETING;
4. Hence dumb people daily put their private data on the cloud;
5. Worse, _rude_ people put _my_ contact information on the cloud;
6. And that of my children & grandchildren & neighbors galore.

In short, anyone putting contacts "on the cloud" is two things, IMHO:
A. Dumb
B. Rude

Dumb because the obvious solutions are to use a modern device;
o Rude because they should keep contacts to their private LAN.

Hence, these are what I'd consider obvious modern solutions:
a. Given a contacts file is simply a plain old text file...
b. You need to be able to copy text files both ways on your LAN.

That means your device needs two modern but basic functionalities:
A. Your contact app needs to have import/export VCARD functionality;
B. And it needs some sort of sync to optimize the combined lists.

In summary, a _modern_ device should be able to sync contacts
on your own LAN (there's no reason to use someone else's computer).
--

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what Arlen Holder <arlen...@anyexample.com> wrote :

> That means your device needs two modern but basic functionalities:
> A. Your contact app needs to have import/export VCARD functionality;
> B. And it needs some sort of sync to optimize the combined lists.

BTW, before the semantic police get all frothy about VCARD format...
o You can use any format you want to sync your contacts on your LAN
o For example, some apps likely import/export CCV (which is also text)

The point isn't the exact format...
o The point is that it's just a non-proprietary format text file
--
If your device can't deal with a plain text file, then it's primitive.

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-04-28 11:02 a.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> In response to what Alan Baker <notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote :
>
>> Explain how you work all this.
>
> Alan,
>
> Good. That was the first adult question I've heard from you.
>

That is not an explanation.

> o We can now _begin_ to add value when you stop denying the obvious.
>  <https://i.postimg.cc/QtTs7bXX/contact01.jpg>

That's your process for keeping contacts (for instance) synchronized
across multiple devices?

You have to export and re-import contact every time you make a change?

That's it?

>
> These are what I would consider obvious widely-known basics:
> 1. We've established the cloud is "someone else's computer";

That's true.

> 2. MARKETING _loves_ to give you "their computer" for a reason;
> 3. They make it so easy that dumb people fall for cloud MARKETING;
> 4. Hence dumb people daily put their private data on the cloud;
> 5. Worse, _rude_ people put _my_ contact information on the cloud;
> 6. And that of my children & grandchildren & neighbors galore.

Encrypted.

You neglect to mention that.

>
> In short, anyone putting contacts "on the cloud" is two things, IMHO:
> A. Dumb
> B. Rude

Your opinion I find less than persuasive.

>
> Dumb because the obvious solutions are to use a modern device; o Rude
> because they should keep contacts to their private LAN.

Use a modern device as you suggest and have to remember to export, move
and re-import data ever time you make a change.

>
> Hence, these are what I'd consider obvious modern solutions:
> a. Given a contacts file is simply a plain old text file... b. You need
> to be able to copy text files both ways on your LAN.

Some contacts files are plain text files...

...some are not.

>
> That means your device needs two modern but basic functionalities:
> A. Your contact app needs to have import/export VCARD functionality;
> B. And it needs some sort of sync to optimize the combined lists.

So you haven't yet shown your full technique, then.

You've just admitted you need "some sort of sync"...

...so what is yours?

>
> In summary, a _modern_ device should be able to sync contacts on your
> own LAN (there's no reason to use someone else's computer).

What if you're not ON your own LAN?

What if you want people across an entire company to have access to the
same group of contacts?

This is not hypothetical—I help clients do this with regularity.

Right now, I have a group of about 25 senior consultants in banking and
digital finance who are forming a consultancy group.

How do you suggest we cost-effectively share contacts, and calendars,
and to-do items?

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-04-28 11:41 a.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> In response to what Arlen Holder <arlen...@anyexample.com> wrote :
>
>> That means your device needs two modern but basic functionalities:
>> A. Your contact app needs to have import/export VCARD functionality;
>> B. And it needs some sort of sync to optimize the combined lists.
>
> BTW, before the semantic police get all frothy about VCARD format...
> o You can use any format you want to sync your contacts on your LAN
> o For example, some apps likely import/export CCV (which is also text)
>
> The point isn't the exact format...
> o The point is that it's just a non-proprietary format text file

But you haven't explained how the synching is done...

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what Arlen Holder <arlen...@anyexample.com> wrote :

> o For example, some apps likely import/export CCV (which is also text)

drat. Typo.

CSV === comma separated values

o How to Export Your Outlook Contacts to a CSV File
<https://www.lifewire.com/export-outlook-contacts-to-csv-file-1173667>

The advantage of CSV is, of course, desktop Excel can easily manage the
desktop contact file (if that's the use model you prefer).

From Excel, you can export the CSV to VCARD if you like.
o How to Export Excel Contacts to vCard ⁄ VCF Format
<https://lettoknow.com/export-excel-contacts-to-vcard/>

With respect to MARKETING gotchas, if your contacts app comes from either
Google or Apple, and if it doesn't contain the extremely basic capability
of importing/exporting a non-proprietary contact file format...

Adult question...

Doesn't that make any of you wonder 'why' their highly-marketed contact app
doesn't have even the most basic of the simplest possible functionality?
--
HINT: It's the same MARKETING reason they drop the sdcard & headphone jack.

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-04-28 11:58 a.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> In response to what Arlen Holder <arlen...@anyexample.com> wrote :
>
>> o For example, some apps likely import/export CCV (which is also text)
>
> drat.  Typo.
>
> CSV === comma separated values
>
> o How to Export Your Outlook Contacts to a CSV File
> <https://www.lifewire.com/export-outlook-contacts-to-csv-file-1173667>
>
> The advantage of CSV is, of course, desktop Excel can easily manage the
> desktop contact file (if that's the use model you prefer).
>
> From Excel, you can export the CSV to VCARD if you like.

> o How to Export Excel Contacts to vCard â „ VCF Format

> <https://lettoknow.com/export-excel-contacts-to-vcard/>
>
> With respect to MARKETING gotchas, if your contacts app comes from either
> Google or Apple, and if it doesn't contain the extremely basic capability
> of importing/exporting a non-proprietary contact file format...

None of that addresses the problem of synchronizing, does it?

>
> Adult question...
>
> Doesn't that make any of you wonder 'why' their highly-marketed contact app
> doesn't have even the most basic of the simplest possible functionality?

An adult would have checked whether or not Apple Contacts had that
functionality before asking that question.

[YK]

On 4/27/20 9:01 PM, Ant wrote:
> In misc.phone.mobile.iphone Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>> On 2020-04-27 12:06, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> https://nordvpn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Screen-Shot-2016-10-12-at-1.20.34-PM.png
>>>
>
>> Doh! Of course I posted the wrong link ... correction:
>> https://nordvpn.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/cloud_security_meme.png
>
> Both are good though! Any more? ;)
>

I actually looked at this thread, but placed it in my kill file the
minute I saw Arlen was involved in replying. I image it will turn out to
be 500 post, with 1/3 plus being from Arlen talking wack about the
ignorant Apple apologists. I'll go back to watching moss grow, it's more
productive.

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what Alan Baker <notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote :

> That's your process for keeping contacts (for instance) synchronized
> across multiple devices?

Alan,

It's the _same_ process that people have for _any_ file for Christs sake.
o Synchronizing files has been around since well before cellphones.

> Encrypted.

On your own private LAN?
o Where do you live?

In China? (which is my current time zone, BTW).

Anyway, there's nothing stopping you from using portable encryption...
o Best freeware for portable encrypted file containers
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/8GGgFKaW-70/WCXEXfVYBAAJ>

> You neglect to mention that.

And you neglected to mention basic privacy facts...

Such as the obvious fact Apple's iCloud clearly is _not_ encrypted:

o iCloud backups are NOT encrypted, by JF Mezei
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/-EA9TYUeVhk/gutU2V0sDQAJ>

Read that thread before you brazenly deny facts as reported in the cites.

> Your opinion I find less than persuasive.

You don't think it's rude to upload my contacts, and that of my kids and
grandkids to the cloud just because you're too lazy to not do that?

> Use a modern device as you suggest and have to remember to export, move
> and re-import data ever time you make a change.

WTF?
o Your phone isn't capable of any automation Alan?

Maybe you should purchase a device that has modern capabilities, Alan.

>> Hence, these are what I'd consider obvious modern solutions:
>> a. Given a contacts file is simply a plain old text file... b. You need
>> to be able to copy text files both ways on your LAN.
>
> Some contacts files are plain text files...
> ...some are not.

Tell us Alan, in which case does VCARD _not_ work for your contacts?

> You've just admitted you need "some sort of sync"...

There are so many ways to do this, it's not funny, Alan.

> ...so what is yours?

I have a setup that includes far more than just contact files, Alan.
o What are some key common databases you often SHARE between your desktop & mobile devices?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/fbtSgT0AiP0/Bwb_tsmeBwAJ>

The private LAN sharing methodology includes calendars, contacts, photos,
videos, passwords, encrypted containers, etc.

> What if you're not ON your own LAN?

You don't have the modern capability to access your own LAN, Alan?

> What if you want people across an entire company to have access to the
> same group of contacts?

Jesus Christ, Alan,
Every company on the planet has solved that problem, long ago, Alan.

When I last worked more than 15 years ago, we had a company database for
example, that synched from a master file maintained by HR, for example.

If you can't do this stuff Alan, maybe you need a modern device?

> This is not hypotheticalĄXI help clients do this with regularity.

Alan,
Every company I ever worked for solved that problem long ago.

If you can't do something _that_ simple, you need a modern setup.
--
People who only believe in MARKETING turn out to be technology cripples.

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what YK <xx...@dialme.com> wrote :

> I actually looked at this thread, but placed it in my kill file the
> minute I saw Arlen was involved in replying. I image it will turn out to
> be 500 post, with 1/3 plus being from Arlen talking wack about the
> ignorant Apple apologists. I'll go back to watching moss grow, it's more
> productive.

What I love is YK proves us right about him every time he posts.

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-04-28 1:44 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> In response to what Alan Baker <notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote :
>
>> That's your process for keeping contacts (for instance) synchronized
>> across multiple devices?
>
> Alan,
>
> It's the _same_ process that people have for _any_ file for Christs sake.
> o Synchronizing files has been around since well before cellphones.

No. The issue is one of making sure that changes on one device don't
stomp on changes made on another.

You've yet to show you have a method for doing so.

>
>> Encrypted.
>
> On your own private LAN?
> o Where do you live?
> In China? (which is my current time zone, BTW).
>
> Anyway, there's nothing stopping you from using portable encryption...
> o Best freeware for portable encrypted file containers
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/8GGgFKaW-70/WCXEXfVYBAAJ>

And iCloud data is encrypted, too.

>
>
>> You neglect to mention that.
>
> And you neglected to mention basic privacy facts...
>
> Such as the obvious fact Apple's iCloud clearly is _not_ encrypted:
> o  iCloud backups are NOT encrypted, by JF Mezei
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/-EA9TYUeVhk/gutU2V0sDQAJ>

iCloud backups are NOT Contacts:

<https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT202303>

And your information is out of date.

Backups ARE now in encrypted.

>
>
> Read that thread before you brazenly deny facts as reported in the cites.

Sorry, but Mr.(Mrs? Ms?) Mezei has less technical persuasiveness than
you do.

>
>> Your opinion I find less than persuasive.
>
> You don't think it's rude to upload my contacts, and that of my kids and
> grandkids to the cloud just because you're too lazy to not do that?

Nope. Not to a service that keeps that data encrypted.

>
>> Use a modern device as you suggest and have to remember to export,
>> move and re-import data ever time you make a change.
>
> WTF?
> o Your phone isn't capable of any automation Alan?
>
> Maybe you should purchase a device that has modern capabilities, Alan.

So lay out precisely the steps you take every time you need to update
your contacts on a device.

Why do you refuse to do so.

>
>>> Hence, these are what I'd consider obvious modern solutions:
>>> a. Given a contacts file is simply a plain old text file... b. You
>>> need to be able to copy text files both ways on your LAN.
>>
>> Some contacts files are plain text files...
>> ...some are not.
>
> Tell us Alan, in which case does VCARD _not_ work for your contacts?

In no case. I was just countering your misinformation that contacts are
always in text form.

>
>> You've just admitted you need "some sort of sync"...
>
> There are so many ways to do this, it's not funny, Alan.

Yet you won't tell us yours.

>
>> ...so what is yours?
>
> I have a setup that includes far more than just contact files, Alan.
> o What are some key common databases you often SHARE between your
> desktop & mobile devices?
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/fbtSgT0AiP0/Bwb_tsmeBwAJ>

So then your claim that you do it by exporting and importing text files
was a lie, was it?

>
>
> The private LAN sharing methodology includes calendars, contacts, photos,
> videos, passwords, encrypted containers, etc.
>
>> What if you're not ON your own LAN?
>
> You don't have the modern capability to access your own LAN, Alan?

I do. But not everyone does.

>
>> What if you want people across an entire company to have access to the
>> same group of contacts?
>
> Jesus Christ, Alan, Every company on the planet has solved that problem,
> long ago, Alan.

HOW did they solve it? I know, but I want you to say.

>
> When I last worked more than 15 years ago, we had a company database for
> example, that synched from a master file maintained by HR, for example.

And that works for a geographically diverse group, does it?

>
> If you can't do this stuff Alan, maybe you need a modern device?
>

>> This is not hypothetical¡XI help clients do this with regularity.

>
> Alan,
> Every company I ever worked for solved that problem long ago.

And yet you won't even explain the simple steps you use for your own
purposes.

[Alan Browne]

On 2020-04-28 16:53, Tim Streater wrote:
> In article <r8a4eh$256i$1...@adenine.netfront.net>, YK <xx...@dialme.com>

> And whichever twerp it was that started it doesn't appear to know that
> the title should have been:
>
> Whose cloud?
>
> obviously being unaware that "who's" is short for "who is". The first
> person to respond should just have said "How the fuck do I know?" and
> left it at that.

Sorry, but Tony beat you to correcting my English slip. Really, I do
know the difference. Doesn't obviate error.

[Tony Cooper]

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 18:27:55 -0400, Alan Browne

Yes, I did, but not in an unkind or snarky way.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what Alan Baker <notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote :

> No. The issue is one of making sure that changes on one device don't
> stomp on changes made on another.

For the sake of the adults on this ng (if any), this is my last post to
this Alan Baker apologist (see the explanation below as to why).

Alan,

If you can't even sync two files, then your setup is primitive.

> You've yet to show you have a method for doing so.

There are so many methods of syncing, Alan, that it's not funny.
o I already explained how MASTER files work, Alan.

And I explained how optimizers work, Alan.
o And I showed how some apps, like password apps, have sync built in.

You're simply _immune_ to the fact all that was explained already.

> And iCloud data is encrypted, too.

You apologists always prove too stupid to comprehend basic facts.
o iCloud backups are NOT encrypted, my JF Mezei, January 2020
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/-EA9TYUeVhk/gutU2V0sDQAJ>

Don't you think there's a "reason" JF Mezei said what he said?
o Or are you always incapable of comprehending the most basic facts?

I'll put it in words you can comprehend, Alan...
o Your vaunted iCloud encryption is an _illusion_ of functionality, Alan.

It doesn't exist except in glossy MARKETING brochures, Alan.

> iCloud backups are NOT Contacts:
> <https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT202303>

Did you see the part about your iCloud data being stored on someone else's
computer, Alan, where they specifically mentioned Amazon and Google for
your iCloud data.

And did you mention that none of it works unless you have 2FA turned on?
(Which, by the way, you can _never_ turn off, AFAIK, for the rest of your
life.)

> And your information is out of date.
> Backups ARE now in encrypted.

It's shocking how utterly immune to facts you apologists are.
o Apple scans EVERYTHING you upload, Alan.

And Apple gives it to anyone who asks, for any purpose they want to, Alan.
o Read the cites before you deny the obvious Alan.

They can even view your uploads if they feel you're competing with them.
O Read the thread, Alan - and click on the cites before you brazenly deny
them.

Apple can and does scan everything you upload for ANY PURPOSE they want.

>> Read that thread before you brazenly deny facts as reported in the cites.
>
> Sorry, but Mr.(Mrs? Ms?) Mezei has less technical persuasiveness than
> you do.

Jesus Christ. You apologists never _click_ on any link ever.
o You didn't see the _many_ links in that thread, Alan?

What amazes me is how you only look at the title.
o You never even once _clicked_ on the link, Alan.

You couldn't have - since a _lot_ of cites proved out the point, Alan.
o What scares me is that people as dumb as you are actually exist.

> Nope. Not to a service that keeps that data encrypted.

They hand out your data to anyone who asks, and they feel like giving it to
them, Alan, even WITHOUT a warrant.

Clearly you didn't even _click_ on the cites.

What scares me is that people like you actually exist.
o You zero adult comprehensive skills.

> So lay out precisely the steps you take every time you need to update
> your contacts on a device.

I did already.
o Why didn't you comprehend them?

> Why do you refuse to do so.

I did already.
o There are so many, I only scratched the surface.

And you _whooshed_ on those.
o Why should I even add more when you don't even click on the links?

>> Tell us Alan, in which case does VCARD _not_ work for your contacts?
>
> In no case. I was just countering your misinformation that contacts are
> always in text form.

So you just fabricated your problem set, Alan?
o This proves, yet again, you simply play games.

> Yet you won't tell us yours.

And yet I did.
o The fact you can't click on a link is your problem Alan.

> So then your claim that you do it by exporting and importing text files
> was a lie, was it?

That's it.
o We're done.

When you claim every obvious fact you don't like is a lie...
o I know you're just playing childish games for your personal amusement.

o Why do apologists like nospam & Alan Baker incessantly call facts
they don't like "lies" and all bearers of facts they don't like "Liars"?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/nVzWBU2otC4/obuCXB1nAgAJ>
--
Apologists brazely call any fact they don't like a lie by liars: that's how
they are able to maintain their wholly imaginary belief system, utterly
immune to any and all facts (much like flat earthers do).

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-04-28 3:48 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> In response to what Alan Baker <notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote :
>
>> No. The issue is one of making sure that changes on one device don't
>> stomp on changes made on another.
>
> For the sake of the adults on this ng (if any), this is my last post to
> this Alan Baker apologist (see the explanation below as to why).
>
> Alan,
>
> If you can't even sync two files, then your setup is primitive.

You are the one claiming you have a method.

What I can or cannot do (and I can do it)...

...is irrelevant.

>
>> You've yet to show you have a method for doing so.
>
> There are so many methods of syncing, Alan, that it's not funny.
> o I already explained how MASTER files work, Alan.

I'm not asking for "many", "Arlen".

I want your method.

>
> And I explained how optimizers work, Alan.
> o And I showed how some apps, like password apps, have sync built in.

But you haven't explained what YOU DO.

>
> You're simply _immune_ to the fact all that was explained already.
>
>> And iCloud data is encrypted, too.
>
> You apologists always prove too stupid to comprehend basic facts.
> o iCloud backups are NOT encrypted, my JF Mezei, January 2020
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/-EA9TYUeVhk/gutU2V0sDQAJ>

We're not discussing backups, and as I pointed out, that information is
no longer correct anyway.

>
>
> Don't you think there's a "reason" JF Mezei said what he said?
> o Or are you always incapable of comprehending the most basic facts?

He's incompetent in most things.

>
> I'll put it in words you can comprehend, Alan...
> o Your vaunted iCloud encryption is an _illusion_ of functionality, Alan.

iCloud encryption exists.

>
> It doesn't exist except in glossy MARKETING brochures, Alan.
>
>> iCloud backups are NOT Contacts:
>> <https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT202303>
>
> Did you see the part about your iCloud data being stored on someone else's
> computer, Alan, where they specifically mentioned Amazon and Google for
> your iCloud data.

Yes. I did. Did you read this part:

"but these partners don’t have the keys to decrypt your data stored on
their servers."

>
> And did you mention that none of it works unless you have 2FA turned on?
> (Which, by the way, you can _never_ turn off, AFAIK, for the rest of your
> life.)
>

Yes, I read it.

Why would I WANT to turn it off.

>
>> And your information is out of date.
>> Backups ARE now in encrypted.
>
> It's shocking how utterly immune to facts you apologists are.
> o Apple scans EVERYTHING you upload, Alan.

Your proof for this is...

>
> And Apple gives it to anyone who asks, for any purpose they want to, Alan.
> o Read the cites before you deny the obvious Alan.

Show some cites and I'll read them.

Original sources, please, not Usenet threads.

>
> They can even view your uploads if they feel you're competing with them.
> O Read the thread, Alan - and click on the cites before you brazenly deny
> them.

Nope. YOU provide the specific quotes and their original sources.

>
> Apple can and does scan everything you upload for ANY PURPOSE they want.

You're lying.

>
>>> Read that thread before you brazenly deny facts as reported in the
>>> cites.
>>
>> Sorry, but Mr.(Mrs? Ms?) Mezei has less technical persuasiveness than
>> you do.
>
> Jesus Christ. You apologists never _click_ on any link ever.
> o You didn't see the _many_ links in that thread, Alan?

I don't got looking for YOUR support, Arlen.

YOUR job is to present it—directly—here:

>
> What amazes me is how you only look at the title.
> o You never even once _clicked_ on the link, Alan.
>
> You couldn't have - since a _lot_ of cites proved out the point, Alan.
> o What scares me is that people as dumb as you are actually exist.
>
>> Nope. Not to a service that keeps that data encrypted.
>
> They hand out your data to anyone who asks, and they feel like giving it to
> them, Alan, even WITHOUT a warrant.

Nope. Incorrect.

If that were true, the FBI wouldn't have been trying so hard to get
Apple to unlock iPhones.

>
> Clearly you didn't even _click_ on the cites.
>
> What scares me is that people like you actually exist.
> o You zero adult comprehensive skills.
>
>> So lay out precisely the steps you take every time you need to update
>> your contacts on a device.
>
> I did already.
> o Why didn't you comprehend them?

No. You didn't.

>
>> Why do you refuse to do so.
>
> I did already.
> o There are so many, I only scratched the surface.

Nope. You did not.

>
> And you _whooshed_ on those.
> o Why should I even add more when you don't even click on the links?
>
>>> Tell us Alan, in which case does VCARD _not_ work for your contacts?
>>
>> In no case. I was just countering your misinformation that contacts
>> are always in text form.
>
> So you just fabricated your problem set, Alan?
> o This proves, yet again, you simply play games.

Nope. You stated "Given a contacts file is simply a plain old text file"...

...and that is simply a false statement.

Not all contacts files are plain old text files.

>
>> Yet you won't tell us yours.
>
> And yet I did.
> o The fact you can't click on a link is your problem Alan.

Nope. You most certainly did not.

The fact that you claim your method was in a link you provided backs my
statement.

>
>> So then your claim that you do it by exporting and importing text
>> files was a lie, was it?
>
> That's it.
> o We're done.

Really?

And if contacts have been changed on both devices, how is that resolved?

>
> When you claim every obvious fact you don't like is a lie...
> o I know you're just playing childish games for your personal amusement.
>
> o Why do apologists like nospam & Alan Baker incessantly call facts
>  they don't like "lies" and all bearers of facts they don't like "Liars"?
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/nVzWBU2otC4/obuCXB1nAgAJ>
>

Not interested in your circle jerk, "Arlen".

[Alan Browne]

I certainly took no offense.

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote :

> obviously being unaware that "who's" is short for "who is". The first
> person to respond should just have said "How the fuck do I know?" and
> left it at that.

Tim Streater...

Serious _adult_ question.

Have you _ever_ added value to even a single thread on Usenet?
o In the entire history of Usenet, Tim?

At least some of us discussed whose cloud it is, and how to avoid the
pitfalls of putting your private data on the cloud by using your own
private LAN for common things like contacts, passwords, medical files,
photos, calendars, etc.

You merely can repeat what Tony Cooper already chastised the OP for.
o Which was a childish worthless comment on silly semantics

When you actually have adult value to add, Tim Streater...
o That's when you should post next.
--
Those who haven never once added value already proved they can't.

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what Tony Cooper <tonyco...@invalid.com> wrote :

>>Sorry, but Tony beat you to correcting my English slip. Really, I do
>>know the difference. Doesn't obviate error.
>
> Yes, I did, but not in an unkind or snarky way.

I also commented on Tony's response...
o ... which I too ascertained neither unkind nor snarky.

Proof here:
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/_8wjSpmImrE/oACvhkhLBAAJ>

I found this thread, by Alan Browne to be a fair topic.
o In that the cloud _is_ simply someone else's computer.

The key problem is people like Tim Streater can't add value to the topic.
o In fact, Tim Streater has never added value in his entire life.

He's _that_ worthless of a piece of shit human being.

Given his lack of worth, all the people like Tim Streater _can_ do...
o Is play silly semantic games on a casual medium which this is.

To childishly assault what was, in effect, merely a simple typo...
--
Those like Tim Streater who can't add value - can only play games.

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-04-28 4:12 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> In response to what Tony Cooper <tonyco...@invalid.com> wrote :
>
>>> Sorry, but Tony beat you to correcting my English slip.  Really, I do
>>> know the difference.  Doesn't obviate error.
>>
>> Yes, I did, but not in an unkind or snarky way.
>
> I also commented on Tony's response...
> o ... which I too ascertained neither unkind nor snarky.

You have a real need to let everyone know how important you think you are...

...don't you?

>
> Proof here:
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/_8wjSpmImrE/oACvhkhLBAAJ>
>
>
> I found this thread, by Alan Browne to be a fair topic.
> o In that the cloud _is_ simply someone else's computer.

Indeed it is.

That doesn't mean it isn't useful

>
> The key problem is people like Tim Streater can't add value to the topic.
> o In fact, Tim Streater has never added value in his entire life.
>
> He's _that_ worthless of a piece of shit human being.
>
> Given his lack of worth, all the people like Tim Streater _can_ do...
> o Is play silly semantic games on a casual medium which this is.
>
> To childishly assault what was, in effect, merely a simple typo...

Not snarky at all...

[nospam]

In article <r8abs9$5fk$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen Holder

<arlen...@anyexample.com> wrote:

>
> > No. The issue is one of making sure that changes on one device don't
> > stomp on changes made on another.
>
> For the sake of the adults on this ng (if any), this is my last post to
> this Alan Baker apologist (see the explanation below as to why).

translated: you've been cornered once again and are running away.

> Alan,
>
> If you can't even sync two files, then your setup is primitive.

you haven't outlined what you supposedly do, thus we can assume that
your method is *so* incredibly primitive that you're embarrassed to
describe it.

keep in mind that blindly exporting from one device and copying that to
another will fail if there are separate changes on *each* device that
must be merged together.

it's also very common for *more* than two devices to have changes that
must be merged.

another requirement is that sync happens immediately, without any
manual intervention.

for example, if a new calendar entry is made for later today, that must
show up on other devices *now*, *before* the event, not tomorrow when
someone gets around to syncing it, long after it occurred.

a non-primitive method would easily cover all of these scenarios
without issue.

describe your supposed method and let's see just how primitive it
really is.

> > You've yet to show you have a method for doing so.
>
> There are so many methods of syncing, Alan, that it's not funny.
> o I already explained how MASTER files work, Alan.

if there are as many methods as you claim, then it should be very easy
for you to 'name just one', using one of your favourite phrases.

be sure to choose one of the many that covers all of the above
scenarios.

> > Nope. Not to a service that keeps that data encrypted.
>
> They hand out your data to anyone who asks, and they feel like giving it to
> them, Alan, even WITHOUT a warrant.

apple *requires* a legitimate warrant to hand over data.

there are other companies that may not require a warrant, however,
apple is not among them.

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-04-27 9:46 a.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> In response to what Tony Cooper <tonyco...@invalid.com> wrote :
>

>> "Whose Cloud?" is the question.
>
> While Tony Cooper (who oft posts to alt.usage.english) has a point...
>
> There's a reason the cloud trend is marked among mobile device users...
> o The less technical someone is... the more they tend to rely on the cloud.
>
> For even the simplest of things... such as transferring photo data.
> o Instead of learning basics of USB & Wi-Fi bidirectional file transfer.
>
> For example you can turn any iOS device into a r/w USB stick in seconds.
> o For free... using only native software... and native commands.
>
> That's read/write to the _entire_ visible file system of _any_ iOS device!
> o Just plug it in, run 1 command, & any iOS device on the planet is yours.
>
>   NOTE: You do not need to own the iOS device for this to work perfectly.
>   NOTE: It's even easier with Android so this isn't iOS vs Android stuff.
>
> For iOS, you just have to know a single simple (but non-intuitive trick).
> o  Simultaneously slide Windows Linux iOS Android files back and forth
> over USB at 7GB per minute speeds using 100% native devices   (no
> proprietary software needed)
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/WqIDiVbawRs/pwxzu7LMCAAJ>

Ironic, don't you think, that you criticize iOS so much...

...when you've chose to use it:

"UserAgent: NewsTap/4.0.1 (iPad)"

:-)

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote :

> translated: you've been cornered once again and are running away.

Hi nospam,

Grow up.

You know full well that I refuse to partake in your childish games...
o Where you apologists brazenly call all facts you don't like, lies.

It's a typical childish game you apologists incessantly play.
o *Why do the apologists like nospam turn into instant children*
*in the face of mere facts*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/TZbkkqS3jv4/3_TTHgRpBwAJ>

You child-like apologists have only 7 responses to facts you don't like.
o None of those responses are adult.

o *What are the common well-verified psychological traits*
*of the Apple Apologists on this newsgroup?*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/18ARDsEOPzM/veU8FwAjBQAJ>

Alan was provided the answers to his questions but he refuses to click on
the links, which is a favorite tactic of you childish apologists, nospam.
o *Why do apologists like Alan Baker not read cites provided, and worse,*
*why do apologists like nospam post links that they didn't even READ*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/6MdNRtwAbaE/EnaupGnQAgAJ>

FACT:
You know full well I have said many times I refuse to partake in an adult
conversation where you apologists claim all facts you don't like are lies.

o Why do apologists like nospam & Alan Baker incessantly call facts
they don't like "lies" and all bearers of facts they don't like "Liars"?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/nVzWBU2otC4/obuCXB1nAgAJ>

FACT:
o Alan Baker knows full well the instant he uses that childish
taunt that any attempt at an adult conversation is halted.

He's _complained_ about this many times, so I know he knows it, nospam.
o You know it also.

My strategy is simple when dealing with you childish apologists, nospam.
o I won't drop down to your level of 'liar liar pants on fire' childishness.

The _instant_ Alan Baker claims all facts he simply doesn't like...
o Are lies by liars...

Any attempt at an adult conversation is instantly over.
o And Alan Baker knows that full well to be a fact.
--
Usenet should be a public archive of useful polite technical discussions.

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-04-28 7:53 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> In response to what nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote :
>
>> translated: you've been cornered once again and are running away.
>
> Hi nospam,
>
> Grow up.
>
> You know full well that I refuse to partake in your childish games...
> o Where you apologists brazenly call all facts you don't like, lies.

You certainly refuse to describe your entire method for keeping contacts
synchronized across more than one device.

>
> It's a typical childish game you apologists incessantly play.
> o *Why do the apologists like nospam turn into instant children*  *in
> the face of mere facts*
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/TZbkkqS3jv4/3_TTHgRpBwAJ>
>
>
> You child-like apologists have only 7 responses to facts you don't like.
> o None of those responses are adult.
>
> o *What are the common well-verified psychological traits*
>  *of the Apple Apologists on this newsgroup?*
>
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/18ARDsEOPzM/veU8FwAjBQAJ>
>
>
> Alan was provided the answers to his questions but he refuses to click on
> the links, which is a favorite tactic of you childish apologists, nospam.
> o *Why do apologists like Alan Baker not read cites provided, and worse,*
>  *why do apologists like nospam post links that they didn't even READ*
>  <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/6MdNRtwAbaE/EnaupGnQAgAJ>

Nope. I was NOT provided an answer.

You're a liar.

>
> FACT:
> You know full well I have said many times I refuse to partake in an adult
> conversation where you apologists claim all facts you don't like are lies.
>
> o Why do apologists like nospam & Alan Baker incessantly call facts
>  they don't like "lies" and all bearers of facts they don't like "Liars"?
>  <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/nVzWBU2otC4/obuCXB1nAgAJ>
>
> FACT:
> o Alan Baker knows full well the instant he uses that childish  taunt
> that any attempt at an adult conversation is halted.

LOL!

[nospam]

In article <r8aru8$n02$1...@dont-email.me>, Alan Baker

<notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote:

> On 2020-04-28 7:53 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> > You know full well that I refuse to partake in your childish games...
> > o Where you apologists brazenly call all facts you don't like, lies.
>
> You certainly refuse to describe your entire method for keeping contacts
> synchronized across more than one device.

he doesn't have a method.

[Alan Browne]

On 2020-04-28 00:39, Patrist Cumming wrote:
> Re: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 14:19:52 -0400, Alan Browne:
>
>> I was looking for my daily English correction. Thanks.
>
> it was fine. don't worry about it.

I don't. In usenet in the body of a text I don't care if I or anyone
makes grammar or spelling mistakes unless they seriously mess up the
meaning of a sentence.

It is more embarrassing in the subject line though...

[Lewis]

In message <r8aru8$n02$1...@dont-email.me> Alan Baker <notony...@no.no.no.no> wrote:
> You certainly refuse to describe your entire method for keeping contacts
> synchronized across more than one device.

<whisper> He doesn't have one.

Also, can you please please pleas trim all the quoted crap (that is to
say, everything) when replying to dipshit?

--
Sam, I thought I told you never to play--

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote :

> <whisper> He doesn't have one.
>
> Also, can you please please pleas trim all the quoted crap (that is to
> say, everything) when replying to dipshit?

Hi Lewis,

I love when you post, Lewis, because you post what you actually think.
o Unlike nospam who doesn't believe a word he, himself, posts.

And unlike Alan Baker, who simply bought too many arguments.
o Alan doesn't care for the answer - he just wants to claim it's a lie.

In one way nospam is quite different from you and Alan Baker though...
o Nospam is actually on the Windows, Linux, & Android newsgroups.

That means nospam is well aware of the answer to these basic questions.
o He's safe here but not on the adult OS newsgroups where he consistently
gets his head handed to him; but he's safe on the Apple newsgroups, simply
because Apple users don't know any better (they're like little children).

So nospam makes these claims which he, himself, knows to be false.

But you... Lewis... you're different.
o *You actually _believe_ what you write*.

Hence, I'd like to ask you a simple set of 3 basic questions:
a. *Do you believe we don't have a seamless bidirectional copy?*
(yes/no)
b. *Do you believe we don't have an import/export in/out of contacts?*
(yes/no)
c. *Do you believe we can't can't easily optimize merged contacts?*
(yes/no)

Any adult knows the answer to those three simple questions...
o *Yet, you apologists can't fathom a simple three yes's in a row*.

That's how oppressively MARKETING has you in your walled prison garden.
o *Your mind is gone in that you can't believe in the simplest solutions!*
--
The apologists are astounded that we have basic capabilities that didn't
come scriipted by the MARKETING teams who feed them what to believe.

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-04-29 5:08 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> In response to what Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote :
>
>> <whisper> He doesn't have one.
>>
>> Also, can you please please pleas trim all the quoted crap (that is to
>> say, everything) when replying to dipshit?
>
> Hi Lewis,
>
> I love when you post, Lewis, because you post what you actually think.
> o Unlike nospam who doesn't believe a word he, himself, posts.
>
> And unlike Alan Baker, who simply bought too many arguments.
> o Alan doesn't care for the answer - he just wants to claim it's a lie.

So prove I'm lying, Arlen...

...post your complete method for keeping contacts on more than one
device synchronized as you make changes.

>
> In one way nospam is quite different from you and Alan Baker though...
> o Nospam is actually on the Windows, Linux, & Android newsgroups.
>
> That means nospam is well aware of the answer to these basic questions.
> o He's safe here but not on the adult OS newsgroups where he consistently
> gets his head handed to him; but he's safe on the Apple newsgroups, simply
> because Apple users don't know any better (they're like little children).
>
> So nospam makes these claims which he, himself, knows to be false.
>
> But you... Lewis... you're different.
> o *You actually _believe_ what you write*.
>
> Hence, I'd like to ask you a simple set of 3 basic questions:
> a. *Do you believe we don't have a seamless bidirectional copy?*
>   (yes/no)

No. I believe you do have it.

> b. *Do you believe we don't have an import/export in/out of contacts?*
>   (yes/no)

No. I believe you DO have it.

> c. *Do you believe we can't can't easily optimize merged contacts?*
>   (yes/no)

I believe you haven't shown us what your process for doing so is, Liar.

[Paul Carmichael]

On 27/04/2020 18:46, Arlen Holder wrote:

> For even the simplest of things... such as transferring photo data.
> o Instead of learning basics of USB & Wi-Fi bidirectional file transfer.

I can save a file from my phone to my server and from there to any other device, but when
I take a photo with my phone, it automatically gets copied to my onedrive which is already
available to all devices. I don't have to do anything.


--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/elpatio

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote :

>>> You know full well that I refuse to partake in your childish games...
>>> o Where you apologists brazenly call all facts you don't like, lies.
>>
>> You certainly refuse to describe your entire method for keeping contacts
>> synchronized across more than one device.
>
> he doesn't have a method.

a. *Do you believe we don't have seamless bidirectional copy?*
(yes or no)
HINT:
<https://i.postimg.cc/MpdL7JLk/xml03.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/vmSszLd2/webdav06.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/X7fQ3PWx/kde01.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/rsXjM74h/mixplorer07.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/vZW6gTfN/netdrive.jpg>
(this list of methods for seamless automation goes on forever)

b. *Do you believe we don't have import/export of contacts?*
(yes or no)
HINT:
<https://i.postimg.cc/Xq4j1tz3/contact05.jpg> <== sim
<https://i.postimg.cc/QtTs7bXX/contact01.jpg> <== vcf
<https://i.postimg.cc/DwjbgYWR/contact04.jpg> <== csv

c. *Do you believe we don't have contact optimizers galore?*
(yes or no)
HINT:
<https://i.postimg.cc/8cFn3D7r/contact03.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/4NFxDg84/contact02.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/15Y8T82M/contact06.jpg>
--
Apologists brazenly deny all solutions not fed to them by MARKETING.

[Savageduck]

Are you still living the ex-pat life in Spain, and how are you
weathering the C-19 plague?

--
Regards,

Savageduck

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-04-30 12:14 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> In response to what nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote :
>
>>>> You know full well that I refuse to partake in your childish games...
>>>> o Where you apologists brazenly call all facts you don't like, lies.
>>>
>>> You certainly refuse to describe your entire method for keeping
>>> contacts synchronized across more than one device.
>>
>> he doesn't have a method.
>
> a. *Do you believe we don't have seamless bidirectional copy?*
>   (yes or no)
>   HINT:   <https://i.postimg.cc/MpdL7JLk/xml03.jpg>
>   <https://i.postimg.cc/vmSszLd2/webdav06.jpg>
>   <https://i.postimg.cc/X7fQ3PWx/kde01.jpg>
>   <https://i.postimg.cc/rsXjM74h/mixplorer07.jpg>
>   <https://i.postimg.cc/vZW6gTfN/netdrive.jpg>
>   (this list of methods for seamless automation goes on forever)

I've already stated that I believe you can copy files in both directions.

>
> b. *Do you believe we don't have import/export of contacts?*
>   (yes or no)
>   HINT:
>   <https://i.postimg.cc/Xq4j1tz3/contact05.jpg> <== sim
>   <https://i.postimg.cc/QtTs7bXX/contact01.jpg> <== vcf
>   <https://i.postimg.cc/DwjbgYWR/contact04.jpg> <== csv

Same answer (essentially).

>
> c. *Do you believe we don't have contact optimizers galore?*
>   (yes or no)
>   HINT:   <https://i.postimg.cc/8cFn3D7r/contact03.jpg>
>   <https://i.postimg.cc/4NFxDg84/contact02.jpg>
>   <https://i.postimg.cc/15Y8T82M/contact06.jpg>

Are you suggesting you need all three of those?

Doesn't the fact that one is a utility for identifying duplicate
contacts indicate that your method isn't as seamless as you've implied?

Or is it that you, in fact, don't use ANY of those and still haven't
come clean about what your method actually is?

[David_B]

When BoaterDave asks questions like that he's accused of STALKING!

Conversation *IS* allowed in Usenet groups! ;-)

Stay safe

[Shadow]

On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 21:28:08 +0100, David_B <Dav...@address.invalid>
wrote:

>><someone asked which country the other lived in>

>When BoaterDave asks questions like that he's accused of STALKING!

You NEVER limit yourself to asking which country someone lives
in. You ask for an address, a personal/anti-social webpage, a phone
number, names of friends, relatives and/or companies.
In a nutshell, anything you can use against the innocent
target.

PS Is "BoaterDave" a new #FAKE_NYM? Or is it one of your old
ones?
There are so many "grep" keeps crashing.
Please help "grep".
TIA

-------------------------------------
BD: I want people to "get to know me better. I have nothing to
hide".
I'm always here to help, this page was put up at BD's request,
rather, he said "Do it *NOW*!":

<https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php>

65 confirmed #FAKE_NYMS, most used in cybercrimes!
Google "David Brooks Devon"
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what Arlen Holder <arlen...@anyexample.com> wrote :

>> the moron nospam brazenly claimed...

>> he doesn't have a method.
>
> a. *Do you believe we don't have seamless bidirectional copy?*
> (yes or no)
> HINT:
> <https://i.postimg.cc/MpdL7JLk/xml03.jpg>
> <https://i.postimg.cc/vmSszLd2/webdav06.jpg>
> <https://i.postimg.cc/X7fQ3PWx/kde01.jpg>
> <https://i.postimg.cc/rsXjM74h/mixplorer07.jpg>
> <https://i.postimg.cc/vZW6gTfN/netdrive.jpg>
> (this list of methods for seamless automation goes on forever)
>

> b. *Do you believe we don't have import/export of contacts?*
> (yes or no)
> HINT:
> <https://i.postimg.cc/Xq4j1tz3/contact05.jpg> <== sim
> <https://i.postimg.cc/QtTs7bXX/contact01.jpg> <== vcf
> <https://i.postimg.cc/DwjbgYWR/contact04.jpg> <== csv
>

> c. *Do you believe we don't have contact optimizers galore?*
> (yes or no)
> HINT:
> <https://i.postimg.cc/8cFn3D7r/contact03.jpg>
> <https://i.postimg.cc/4NFxDg84/contact02.jpg>
> <https://i.postimg.cc/15Y8T82M/contact06.jpg>

Oooops. My mistake on one of those hint screenshots...

This on photographic hint wasn't supposed to be in that list:
<https://i.postimg.cc/MpdL7JLk/xml03.jpg>

That screenshot was for our SMS/MMS & call log backup solution between
Windows & Android, which, as always, was designed to never put our private
data on the cloud (as are all our data/apk backup/restore/sync solutions):
o *What free non-root Android backup & restore solution do you recommend for general use?*
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/jZ8IxxgXFys>

Given privacy-based solutions specifically don't _use_ the cloud, it's
interesting that, in fact, despite MARKETING claims to the contrary...
o *Extremely few data sync, backup, or merge issues actually "need" the cloud*

In fact, there are so many ways to copy, sync, & merge, it isn't funny:
1. *CIFS* (eg Folder Tag, Network Browser, ES File Explorer, etc.)
2. *SMB* (eg AndSMB, Astro, Total Commander, MiXplorer, etc.)
3. *FTP* (eg PrimitiveFTP, FTPUse, FTP Server, WinSCP, FileZilla, etc.)
4. *HTTP* (eg Wifi Explorer, WiFi File Transfer, etc.)
5. *Sync* (eg MyPhoneExplorer, AirDroid, Psencik LocalSync, etc.)
6. *MTP* (e.g., libMTP, MTP, Android Studio adb, etc.)
7. *Proprietary* (e.g., KDEConnect, ResilioSync, SyncMe Wireless, etc.)

As for optimizing and merging duplicate contacts, there are so many
solutions for that it isn't funny, where those solutions range from Android
apps to using Outlook & Excel (since contacts can be imported & exported as
CSV quite easily).
<https://i.postimg.cc/8cFn3D7r/contact03.jpg>

It's widely known I don't use apps from Google, nor do I use GSF based apps
if I can help it; but interestingly, the stock Contacts app from Google
"apparently" can do merging all by itself:
o Merge duplicate contacts
<https://support.google.com/contacts/answer/7078226?co=GENIE.Platform%3DAndroid>

Understandably one wouldn't want to use stock Google apps, even for
merging, but it does seem to be the case based on this article also:
o How to merge & remove duplicate contacts
<https://www.techspot.com/article/1408-android-merge-duplicate-contacts/>

And based on this article also, the default contacts app merges contacts:
o How to Delete or Merge Duplicate Contacts
<https://www.tunesbro.com/merge-duplicate-contacts-android.html>

There are other apps to optimize & merge contacts, where this article:
o How to Merge Duplicate Contacts
<https://www.maketecheasier.com/merge-duplicate-contacts-android/>
Suggests this freeware which even works from your notification bar:
o *Merge +*, by Contacts Plus team
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.contapps.android.merger>
But it has ads and is not GSF independent so I pesonally would deprecate
it; but most people don't strive for ad-free GSF-free apps like I do.

As always with Android free utilities, there are too many to test them all.

For example, this article talks about the file-based use model I espouse:
o Manage, Delete & Merge Duplicate Contacts
<https://www.droidviews.com/manage-and-merge-duplicate-contacts-on-android/>
"On Android your contacts are usually synced to Google so that anytime
you log in with your Google ID on a new phone, all your contacts are
there. Yet, you also have the option to create local backups in the form
of .vcf files. This can result in a number of duplicate contacts.
Luckily, Android also gives you options to manage, delete and merge
duplicate contacts on Android and iOS devices."

Notice they use a similar use model as I do, where, for privacy reasons
that are impossible on iOS devices, I don't even have a Google Account set
up on my Android phone (and the phone works just fine without it).

"If you don't store your contacts on your Google ID but instead use your
device's local storage...I'll recommend using the app called
Contacts Optimizer..."
o *Contacts Optimizer*, by Compelson Labs
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.compelson.optimizer>

Where the full version claims to perform the following tasks:
o Remove all duplicates and even find similar contacts
o Every individual optimization function at your fingertips
o Edit Contacts feature with Move to account function
o Mass move of selected contacts between accounts
o Move all contacts - a powerful function for moving contacts between accounts.
o You can combine your contacts from Phone Memory to Google to have them all synchronized and then find and delete all duplicates.
o The ability to quickly delete individual contacts you no longer need
o Correct and nicely format phone numbers
o Locate potentially incorrect contacts which cannot be dialed
o Find all incomplete contacts that have an important contact field empty
o Clean contacts removing empty fields
o Add international prefixes and country codes where needed
o Merge contact fragments into one rich contact
o Locate contacts in your messages and calls that have not yet been saved
o Digitizing of vanity numbers like 1-800-MY-GOOGLE
o Edit, Delete, Select all or unselect all contacts at any time, just tap and hold the contact
etc.

Personally, I'm fine with free ad-free GSF-independent contact merger apps
but to learn more, as always, I asked what others use on the Android ng:
o *Which free contact optimizer duplicate removal contacts merger app do you like best & why?*
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/YheUv3Cl5aM>

Note the two fundamental privacy-based use models:
a. Maintain "Master" contacts on the PC (e.g., via Excel or Outlook).
b. Sync local contacts across your local LAN at any time you desire.
--
Putting private data on the cloud is not only rude, but wholly unnecessary.

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-04-30 5:29 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> In response to what Arlen Holder <arlen...@anyexample.com> wrote :
>
>>> the moron nospam brazenly claimed...
>>> he doesn't have a method.
>>
>> a. *Do you believe we don't have seamless bidirectional copy?*
>>    (yes or no)
>>    HINT:    <https://i.postimg.cc/MpdL7JLk/xml03.jpg>
>>    <https://i.postimg.cc/vmSszLd2/webdav06.jpg>
>>    <https://i.postimg.cc/X7fQ3PWx/kde01.jpg>
>>    <https://i.postimg.cc/rsXjM74h/mixplorer07.jpg>
>>    <https://i.postimg.cc/vZW6gTfN/netdrive.jpg>
>>    (this list of methods for seamless automation goes on forever)
>>
>> b. *Do you believe we don't have import/export of contacts?*
>>    (yes or no)
>>    HINT:
>>    <https://i.postimg.cc/Xq4j1tz3/contact05.jpg> <== sim
>>    <https://i.postimg.cc/QtTs7bXX/contact01.jpg> <== vcf
>>    <https://i.postimg.cc/DwjbgYWR/contact04.jpg> <== csv
>>
>> c. *Do you believe we don't have contact optimizers galore?*
>>    (yes or no)
>>    HINT:    <https://i.postimg.cc/8cFn3D7r/contact03.jpg>
>>    <https://i.postimg.cc/4NFxDg84/contact02.jpg>
>>    <https://i.postimg.cc/15Y8T82M/contact06.jpg>
>
> Oooops. My mistake on one of those hint screenshots...

That's a lot of chatter down there...

...all to avoid telling us what YOUR SPECIFIC PROCESS IS.

Lay out the tools used and the steps taken, Arlen.

i.e.

Step 1: export contacts from phone into <xyz> format file.

Step 2: copy file to personal computer...

...etc.

[Paul Carmichael]

On 30/04/2020 21:53, Savageduck wrote:

> Are you still living the ex-pat life in Spain, and how are you weathering the C-19 plague?
>

Yes and fine thanks.

We're allowed out tomorrow for the first time in 7 weeks. I'll do a lap of the village
which I haven't seen for a long time.

Obviously the holiday home is empty, but I already had the pool heater on so I'll be in
the pool this afternoon.

Not much photography (well, cats, obviously).

Was going to ask for suggestions for a walk-around lens, as I always have to decide
between the primes that I have, but as this thing has ruined me financially, I'll give it
a miss for now.

You?

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/elpatio

[Savageduck]

On May 1, 2020, Paul Carmichael wrote
(in article <hh21ep...@mid.individual.net>):

> On 30/04/2020 21:53, Savageduck wrote:
>
> > Are you still living the ex-pat life in Spain, and how are you weathering the C-19 plague?
>
> Yes and fine thanks.

That is good news.

>
> We're allowed out tomorrow for the first time in 7 weeks. I'll do a lap of the village
> which I haven't seen for a long time.
>
> Obviously the holiday home is empty, but I already had the pool heater on so I'll be in
> the pool this afternoon.

...but you have the pool. ;-)

>
> Not much photography (well, cats, obviously).
>
> Was going to ask for suggestions for a walk-around lens, as I always have to decide
> between the primes that I have, but as this thing has ruined me financially, I'll give it
> a miss for now.

For most of us photography, and new stuff will have to wait.

As far as your walk-around lens choice goes I would consider your current prime focal lengths, what you are comfortable with, and how much flexibility you need. I am still shooting APS-C rather than FF, and currently my favorite general purpose, walk-around lens is the Fujifilm XF16-55mm f/2.8 which is a FF/35mm equivalent of 24-70/82mm. In that range Sigma has some offerings such as their APS-C DC 17-70mm which delivers Optical Stabilization (OS) and some macro capability. Tokina has an interesting selection, and I have always been impressed with their quality. Then there is Tamron, and what they have to offer.

With all that said, if you are looking for versatility with longer reach it is tougher to find a general purpose lens which can deliver all, and maintain image quality. Above all there is your budget to consider.
>
> You?

I am living the Californian version of splendid isolation which has permitted me the freedom to leave the house, with mask for grocery shopping, and maintain the social life of a stump.

I have been financially fortunate due to my generous pension, but I fear life will be grim for those who are suffering, and will continue to suffer loss of income. It is going to take a long time before we have any real sense of normality.

--
Regards,
Savageduck

[Arlen Holder]

A relevant thoughtful question is what data do we have that actually
"needs" the cloud, given that the cloud is simply someone else's computer.

While corporations can have thousands of people accessing the same data,
individuals don't normally have those types of "cloud" needs.

And while people can "share" photos and calendar events, in general what
people put on the cloud is far more than the stuff they wish to share (why
would they encrypt it, for example, if they wished to share it with the
world)?

Assuming therefore we're not discussing corporate or sharing needs, then
the question becomes what on earth would people even want to put on the
cloud that is there personal data?

This seems to be the type of data that lends itself to cloud storage:
o Email (active & archives)
o ? anything else ?

For non-technical people, this may also lend itself to cloud storage:
o Calendars (active & archives)
o ? anything else ?

For most people, this may be data that almost never should be on the cloud:
o Contacts
o Call logs
o SMS/MMS messages
o Photos & videos
o Documents in general
o Passwords in particular
o Application backups
o Settings backups
o ? anything else ?

One could argue any one of these "lend themselves" to cloud storage,
depending on use model; but if we care about privacy, we would want as
little on "the cloud" as possible, where even email (via POP) could be
removed from the cloud when read.

Personally, the only things I keep "on the cloud" are my email...
o Everything else is synchronized as needed on my local LAN storage.
--
Privacy is a thousand links in a long chain of technical events.

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-05-01 2:30 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> A relevant thoughtful question is what data do we have that actually
> "needs" the cloud, given that the cloud is simply someone else's computer.

A relevant question you've consistently refused to answer is:

What is your actual process for keeping your data synchronized on
multiple devices?

>
> While corporations can have thousands of people accessing the same data,
> individuals don't normally have those types of "cloud" needs.

Individuals now have multiple devices. Most would prefer that, when they
change an appointment from 2pm to 3pm on their desktop computer, that
their phone will automatically have that update without the need to go
through a synching process before you can leave the house.

>
> And while people can "share" photos and calendar events, in general what
> people put on the cloud is far more than the stuff they wish to share (why
> would they encrypt it, for example, if they wished to share it with the
> world)?

Why do you assume that you can speak for all people?

>
> Assuming therefore we're not discussing corporate or sharing needs, then
> the question becomes what on earth would people even want to put on the
> cloud that is there personal data?
>
> This seems to be the type of data that lends itself to cloud storage:
> o Email (active & archives)
> o ? anything else ?

IMAP email accounts have done that for years, and I don't recall you
ever claiming the sky was falling over that.

>
> For non-technical people, this may also lend itself to cloud storage:
> o Calendars (active & archives)
> o ? anything else ?
>
> For most people, this may be data that almost never should be on the cloud:
> o Contacts o Call logs

You mean other than the contact information that is in the IMAP email
accounts you've never complained about.

> o SMS/MMS messages

Which are end-to-end encrypted if you use Apple's iCloud.

"Messages in iCloud also uses end-to-end encryption. "

"A minimum of 128-bit AES encryption"

<https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT202303>

> o Photos & videos

Likewise.

> o Documents in general

As well.

> o Passwords in particular

The same.

> o Application backups

As well.

> o Settings backups

Also encrypted.

> o ? anything else ?
>
> One could argue any one of these "lend themselves" to cloud storage,
> depending on use model; but if we care about privacy, we would want as
> little on "the cloud" as possible, where even email (via POP) could be
> removed from the cloud when read.

Yet you're not decrying against IMAP...

>
> Personally, the only things I keep "on the cloud" are my email...
> o Everything else is synchronized as needed on my local LAN storage.

By a method which you have steadfastly refused to reveal.

Any reply to this message that does not include an end-to-end
description of your process for doing so will be accepted as proof that
you're lying when you claim to have one.

:-)