Inter HackSpace Robot- PotteriesBot

[James Davies]

So I've been going round nagging people around the country to enter the InterHackspace robot wars competition we are holding at PHS in August and it occurred to me that we should probably start work on our robot! So who's in? Matt and Genesis seemed keen last week with ideas- it can be as simple or as complex as we like. Someone was talking about prying opponents shells apart with a sort of reverse-pliers set-up. All ideas invited! 

James II.  

[James Wade]

Hi James,

I'm sure all of us will be willing to offer a hand where we can.

I'm not sure how far my skills extend to building robots, but I'm pretty sure I'm pretty resourceful, so maybe I could help provide a biscuit tin, ya know, with enough coffee.

We need to design it, plan it, get the materials, make it and test it.

So, I've no idea about the design, so if someone drafts a design for it, I'm sure I can help with the BOM and then breaking the rest down into bite size chunks of manageable tasks that can be delegated out to whoever has the best skills and/or time to do it.

Ta.

On 28 April 2015 at 01:40, James Davies <v4...@students.keele.ac.uk> wrote:

So I've been going round nagging people around the country to enter the InterHackspace robot wars competition we are holding at PHS in August and it occurred to me that we should probably start work on our robot! So who's in? Matt and Genesis seemed keen last week with ideas- it can be as simple or as complex as we like. Someone was talking about prying opponents shells apart with a sort of reverse-pliers set-up. All ideas invited! 

James II.  

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[lionschasing]

Hypnodisc people.... The king of robot wars took on Matilda and destroyed most of the house bots. Let's be champions like them

[Thomas Hancock]

robot mounted Industrial shredder  :P  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY11NZsCh0w

[James Davies]

if you find a motor with enough torque then that would actually be a kick ass idea! 

James Davies
Year 3 Medical Student
University of Keele

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[lionschasing]

Yeah :P

[lionschasing]

Hub motor or inrunner?

James Davies <v4...@students.keele.ac.uk> wrote:

if you find a motor with enough torque then that would actually be a kick ass idea! 

James Davies
Year 3 Medical Student
University of Keele

[James Wade]

Seems like a good way to lose an arm!

On 28 April 2015 at 13:43, Thomas Hancock <tom.h...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Ian Knight]

Hypnodisc, all you really need is a flywheel of a car, cheap enough to pick up at scrap yard.

Drill some holes in edge and drive in some hard steel pegs.

Kinetic energy is what it really all about rip the side out of a battle ship/

 

---

[lionschasing]

Note how he fearlessly throws the cans in his fingers were 5inches from becoming a florid mess.

James Wade <jps...@gmail.com> wrote:

Seems like a good way to lose an arm!

[lionschasing]

Well... We could mount it on a 8x8 hub motor or better yet a high acceleration low speed motor... Etch into the flywheel some 90 degree angles

Ian Knight <imk...@sky.com> wrote:

Hypnodisc, all you really need is a flywheel of a car, cheap enough to pick up at scrap yard.

Drill some holes in edge and drive in some hard steel pegs.

Kinetic energy is what it really all about rip the side out of a battle ship/

 

---

From: potteries...@googlegroups.com [mailto:potteries...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of James Davies
Sent: 28 April 2015 13:59
To: potteries...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Potteries Hackspace] Inter HackSpace Robot- PotteriesBot

 

if you find a motor with enough torque then that would actually be a kick ass idea! 

 

James Davies
Year 3 Medical Student
University of Keele

 

On 28 April 2015 at 13:43, Thomas Hancock <tom.h...@gmail.com> wrote:

[James Davies]

The spoil sport who wrote the rules says we can't have anything spinning over 300 revs a minute. That's why I like Tom's shredder idea :)

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[lionschasing]

Okay... That's lame... We need a minimum of 900rpm to decimate stuff with the flywheel :(

James Davies <v4...@students.keele.ac.uk> wrote:

The spoil sport who wrote the rules says we can't have anything spinning over 300 revs a minute. That's why I like Tom's shredder idea :)

On 28 April 2015, at 14:43, lionschasing <lionsc...@gmail.com> wrote:


Well... We could mount it on a 8x8 hub motor or better yet a high acceleration low speed motor... Etch into the flywheel some 90 degree angles

Ian Knight <imk...@sky.com> wrote:

Hypnodisc, all you really need is a flywheel of a car, cheap enough to pick up at scrap yard.

Drill some holes in edge and drive in some hard steel pegs.

Kinetic energy is what it really all about rip the side out of a battle ship/

 

---

From: potteries...@googlegroups.com [mailto:potteries...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of James Davies
Sent: 28 April 2015 13:59
To: potteries...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Potteries Hackspace] Inter HackSpace Robot- PotteriesBot

 

if you find a motor with enough torque then that would actually be a kick ass idea! 

<fo

[Ian Knight]

What does it say about diameter and mass as 300 rpm of 0.5m dia 50mm thick steel loaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaads of energy.

 

 

---

From: potteries...@googlegroups.com [mailto:potteries...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of lionschasing
Sent: 28 April 2015 15:12
To: James Davies; potteries...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Potteries Hackspace] Inter HackSpace Robot- PotteriesBot

 

Hypnodisc, all you really need is a flywheel of a car, cheap enough to pick up at scrap yard.

Drill some holes in edge and drive in some hard steel pegs.

Kinetic energy is what it really all about rip the side out of a battle ship/

 

---

From: potteries...@googlegroups.com [mailto:potteries...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of James Davies
Sent: 28 April 2015 13:59
To: potteries...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Potteries Hackspace] Inter HackSpace Robot- PotteriesBot

 

if you find a motor with enough torque then that would actually be a kick ass idea! 

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[Ian Knight]

Other idea, anyone know how these dual mass flywheels work?

 

 

---

From: potteries...@googlegroups.com [mailto:potteries...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of lionschasing

Sent: 28 April 2015 15:12

To: James Davies; potteries...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Potteries Hackspace] Inter HackSpace Robot- PotteriesBot

 

Hypnodisc, all you really need is a flywheel of a car, cheap enough to pick up at scrap yard.

Drill some holes in edge and drive in some hard steel pegs.

Kinetic energy is what it really all about rip the side out of a battle ship/

 

---

From: potteries...@googlegroups.com [mailto:potteries...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of James Davies
Sent: 28 April 2015 13:59
To: potteries...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Potteries Hackspace] Inter HackSpace Robot- PotteriesBot

 

if you find a motor with enough torque then that would actually be a kick ass idea! 

--

[Genesis Rowley]

Does the 300rpm limit just apply to the weapons? or to the wheels as well? because I still like my Angle grinder powered Idea but they spin a heck of a lot faster than that.

[lionschasing]

I second genesis's idea angle grinders at every angle and nothing will get near :o)

Genesis Rowley <genesi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Does the 300rpm limit just apply to the weapons? or to the wheels as well? because I still like my Angle grinder powered Idea but they spin a heck of a lot faster than that.

[James Davies]

Yes thats fine, as long as the wheels are touching the ground. 

And angle grinder disks are not allowed because "12.4 Hardened Blades- Commercially manufactured, hardened steel blades that may shatter are not allowed." 

So we would either have to stick rubber wheels on the grinder or make our own shatter-proof blades.

James Davies
Year 3 Medical Student
University of Keele

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[Ian Knight]

Is there a minimum height and minimum ground clearance?

 

 

---

From: potteries...@googlegroups.com [mailto:potteries...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of James Davies

Sent: 29 April 2015 22:45
To: potteries...@googlegroups.com

[James Davies]

No and no

[lionschasing]

Reaper attack drone replica with a large heavy load? Can we build a flying combat robot?

[Ian Knight]

Then I have an idea for a unique design, with two weapons in one.

Will sketch up and show at agm.

[Samuel Freeman]

Not sure if robot designs will be on the Agenda for the AGM ;P (but I think you mean on that day rather than in the meeting!)

The rules in question, that folk have been asking about, are linked via http://potterieshackspace.org/2015/04/24/inter-hackspace-robot-wars-2015/

... Maybe there should be an item on the AGM agenda for discussion the upcoming event?

[James Davies]

That's a good idea Sam- a chat about the event at the AGM would be good I think. 

I'm not going to be around for the next 4 weeks- is someone wiling to initiate the robot-building in that time? 

James Davies
Year 3 Medical Student
University of Keele

[James Wade]

Hi guys,

Who's going to take lead on this?

Cheers.

[Ian Knight]

Would love to but given this ear issue I have and commitments to house restoration I feel it unfair to take on the job and then not be able to see it through,

Have some ideas that I have already talked to James II about, fairly easy to build robot that has a nasty surprise.

Ian

 

---

[James Davies]

Hi guys. Jobs I can see need doing- design, electrical wiring, metal fabrication, sourcing parts, pneumatics (if we go with Ian's idea at least). 

Should we divide the labor? Who wants to do what?

James Davies
Year 3 Medical Student
University of Keele

[Jibreel Arshad]

We need a basic design, I'm happy to work on Electronics but will need a basic design to work from. Number of driven wheels, weapons systems, sensors etc

[lionschasing]

If it is battery operated then I can do the power side. Depending on how much damage it incurs it might be a good idea to use some very hard to kill durable high c rate NiMH cells

Jibreel Arshad <jibs...@hotmail.com> wrote:

We need a basic design, I'm happy to work on Electronics but will need a basic design to work from. Number of driven wheels, weapons systems, sensors etc

[Jibreel]

I'd definately make it battery powered, unless we got a spare nuclear rector lying around.

Might be worth making this thread members only

[Ian Knight]

Building this robot is a wonderful idea and fun project.

But are we sure it will be a competition, inasmuch as are we sure anyone else is going to showup with a robot or just to laugh at our?

 

---

From: potteries...@googlegroups.com [mailto:potteries...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jibreel
Sent: 19 May 2015 13:33
To: lionschasing
Cc: potteries...@googlegroups.com; James Davies
Subject: Re: [Potteries Hackspace] Re: Inter HackSpace Robot- PotteriesBot

 

I'd definately make it battery powered, unless we got a spare nuclear rector lying around.

[James Davies]

So far:

Redding is assembling it,

Birmingham is waiting on parts to arrive,

2 London Spaces manchester, bristol, and some others are interested but I dont know what stage they are at.

So there should be competition :) 

On Tuesday, 19 May 2015 14:40:31 UTC+1, Ian Knight wrote:

Building this robot is a wonderful idea and fun project.

But are we sure it will be a competition, inasmuch as are we sure anyone else is going to showup with a robot or just to laugh at our?

 

---

From: potteries...@googlegroups.com [mailto:potteries...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jibreel
Sent: 19 May 2015 13:33
To: lionschasing
Cc: potteries...@googlegroups.com; James Davies
Subject: Re: [Potteries Hackspace] Re: Inter HackSpace Robot- PotteriesBot

 

I'd definately make it battery powered, unless we got a spare nuclear rector lying around.

Might be worth making this thread members only

On 19 May 2015 12:44, lionschasing <lionsc...@gmail.com> wrote:

If it is battery operated then I can do the power side. Depending on how much damage it incurs it might be a good idea to use some very hard to kill durable high c rate NiMH cells

Jibreel Arshad <jibs...@hotmail.com> wrote:

We need a basic design, I'm happy to work on Electronics but will need a basic design to work from. Number of driven wheels, weapons systems, sensors etc

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[Ian Knight]

Then it sounds like it is on.

Do we have a budget; Are you funding it or PHS or are we all planning to put some monies in?

 

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[James Davies]

Not sure. Might be worth voting on whether we can use some of phs' funds?

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[Ian Knight]

Well it seems that the robot you have already built is 90% complete so I thought you were planning on entering it.

[James Davies]

10kg weight limit. But that also means it shouldn't cost us too much

[Ian Knight]

Mmmmm 10kg going to need carbon fibre.

Do you have a design yet motors etc

[Jibreel Arshad]

maybe use polycarbonate, stuff for conservatory roofs

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[James Davies]

Wonder if drill motors or windscreen wiper motors would be suitable...

[Ian Knight]

Mmmm 10 kg, is ally shell with steel frame. Glued and screwed (bolts and nuts)

What are the max dimensions?

Old electric drill motors could be good, but they tend to be part of drill casing.

[James Davies]

Yeah, or no frame maybe? Just a monocoque?
No max dimensions :)

Surely they could be freed from the casing? Jib/lionschasing, do you think you could do power control to drill motors?

[Ian Knight]

Mmmm 10Kg, not sure if my duel kill mode weapon will fit in 10kg but I have another idea.

Will txt it to you James, as this thread is public.

[Jibreel Arshad]

Drill motors are DC, should be doable without too much trouble

[James Davies]

Would be tight- spring power it? Ok.

[James Davies]

And jib, that's great :)

On 19 May 2015, at 22:12, Jibreel Arshad <jibreel...@gmail.com> wrote:

Drill motors are DC, should be doable without too much trouble

[James Davies]

oh yeah, as well as Redding and Brum, Bromyard has said they'll definitely be there. 

James Davies
Year 3 Medical Student
University of Keele

[Jibreel Arshad]

Was at space today, reckon we need a design before voting on funding etc

[James Davies]

Sure. Would you mind bringing it up next Tuesday? I'll be back the following Thursday but I think it'd be good to get it going. Or maybe a private chat would be good for thinking about designs?

[Ian Knight]

I think if we want to talk about a design online we need to start a members only thread.

So how do we do that?

[Ian Knight]

Archie what would the best battery voltage to go for?

 

---

From: potteries...@googlegroups.com [mailto:potteries...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of James Davies

Sent: 20 May 2015 00:10

[lionschasing]

Depends on the motor we are using and how well it can handle over voltage without stripping gears. Double the voltage is square root the efficiency. I'd be tempted to use some very high powered electric car batteries like the NiMH 8ah out of the prius

Ian Knight <imk...@sky.com> wrote:

Archie what would the best battery voltage to go for?

 

---

From: potteries...@googlegroups.com [mailto:potteries...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of James Davies
Sent: 20 May 2015 00:10
To: potteries-hackspace@googlegroups com
Subject: Re: [Potteries Hackspace] Re: Inter HackSpace Robot- PotteriesBot

 

Sure. Would you mind bringing it up next Tuesday? I'll be back the following Thursday but I think it'd be good to get it going. Or maybe a private chat would be good for thinking about designs?

On 19 May 2015, at 23:21, Jibreel Arshad <jibreel...@gmail.com> wrote:

Was at space today, reckon we need a design before voting on funding etc

 

On Tue, 19 May 2015 23:19 James Davies <v4...@students.keele.ac.uk> wrote:

oh yeah, as well as <st1:Cit

[lionschasing]

Drill motors handle overvolting really well.

James Davies <v4...@students.keele.ac.uk> wrote:

Wonder if drill motors or windscreen wiper motors would be suitable...

On 19 May 2015, at 21:38, Jibreel Arshad <jibreel...@gmail.com> wrote:

maybe use polycarbonate, stuff for conservatory roofs

On 19 May 2015 21:35, "Ian Knight" <imk...@sky.com> wrote:

Mmmmm 10kg going to need carbon fibre.

Do you have a design yet motors etc

 

---

From: potteries...@googlegroups.com [mailto:potteries...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of James Davies

Sent: 19 May 2015 21:23

To: potteries-hackspace@googlegroups com
Subject: Re: [Potteries Hackspace] Re: Inter HackSpace Robot- PotteriesBot

 

Well it seems that the robot you have already built is 90% complete so I thought you were planning on entering it.

 

---

From: potteries...@googlegroups.com [mailto:potteries...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of James Davies

Sent: 19 May 2015 20:19

To: potteries-hackspace@googlegroups com
Subject: Re: [Potteries Hackspace] Re: Inter HackSpace Robot- PotteriesBot

 

Then it sounds like it is on.

[Ian Knight]

Drill motors need mountings, I guess we could 3d print those, but will need a gear box as maybe too fast to drive the wheels directly.

1^st I guess we need to agree on the robots battle tools and tactics.

Out of this should drop out the required robots speed, my guess is something like 5m/s or 10 mph.

Therefore a 100mm dia wheel is about 0.314 meter per revolution therefore an axel/motor rate of about 1000rpm.

 

James II when are you need back in PHS on Tuesday? We should agree to meet on this day to finalize a basic the robots battle tools and tactics

 

---

From: potteries...@googlegroups.com [mailto:potteries...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of James Davies

Sent: 20 May 2015 00:10

[Ian Knight]

Next time we meet can someone bring kitchen scales as we need to start weighing things like batteries and motors etc to get some idea of weight in order to stay within the 10kg limit

 

---

From: potteries...@googlegroups.com [mailto:potteries...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of James Davies

Sent: 20 May 2015 00:10

[Jibreel Arshad]

I have created a private thread for this topic, it is in the Potteries HackSpace Members group and has the same name

[Genesis Rowley]

If you are going to go with aluminium/steel frame, I've got an order in with my laser cutters in the next two weeks and another at the end of June. If you want to tag the parts on and save on shipping and part cost.

[lionschasing]

What's that metal that gets harder when you hit it? :)))

Genesis Rowley <genesi...@gmail.com> wrote:

>If you are going to go with aluminium/steel frame, I've got an order in with my laser cutters in the next two weeks and another at the end of June. If you want to tag the parts on and save on shipping and part cost.
>

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[Ian Knight]

Most metal workharden!

[Lionschasing .]

Ian

I just read your email about your ear infection in horror, if there is anything that I can help with please let me know.

Get well soon

Best regards

Arch

On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 2:25 PM, Ian Knight <imk...@sky.com> wrote:

Hypnodisc, all you really need is a flywheel of a car, cheap enough to pick up at scrap yard.

Drill some holes in edge and drive in some hard steel pegs.

Kinetic energy is what it really all about rip the side out of a battle ship/

 

---

From: potteries...@googlegroups.com [mailto:potteries...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of James Davies
Sent: 28 April 2015 13:59
To: potteries...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Potteries Hackspace] Inter HackSpace Robot- PotteriesBot

 

if you find a motor with enough torque then that would actually be a kick ass idea! 

 

James Davies
Year 3 Medical Student
University of Keele

 

On 28 April 2015 at 13:43, Thomas Hancock <tom.h...@gmail.com> wrote:

robot mounted Industrial shredder  :P  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY11NZsCh0w

 

On 28 April 2015 at 12:58, lionschasing <lionsc...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hypnodisc people.... The king of robot wars took on Matilda and destroyed most of the house bots. Let's be champions like them

James Wade <jps...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi James,

 

I'm sure all of us will be willing to offer a hand where we can.

 

I'm not sure how far my skills extend to building robots, but I'm pretty sure I'm pretty resourceful, so maybe I could help provide a biscuit tin, ya know, with enough coffee.

 

We need to design it, plan it, get the materials, make it and test it.

 

So, I've no idea about the design, so if someone drafts a design for it, I'm sure I can help with the BOM and then breaking the rest down into bite size chunks of manageable tasks that can be delegated out to whoever has the best skills and/or time to do it.

 

Ta.

 

On 28 April 2015 at 01:40, James Davies <v4...@students.keele.ac.uk> wrote:

So I've been going round nagging people around the country to enter the InterHackspace robot wars competition we are holding at PHS in August and it occurred to me that we should probably start work on our robot! So who's in? Matt and Genesis seemed keen last week with ideas- it can be as simple or as complex as we like. Someone was talking about prying opponents shells apart with a sort of reverse-pliers set-up. All ideas invited! 

 

James II.  

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[Ian Knight]

Archie,

Many thanks for your concerned, been at it for year now.

I have the odd good day but most are bad, went to London Wednesday to see a doc so see what happens next.

Ian

 

---

[Ian Knight]

Hello Guys,

 

So if I am ok tomorrow (Sunday) I am going to build a wooden mockup of the robot design I have.

However given the amount of time we have before the competition I was wondering if we have time to build our own from scratch.

Inasmuch much as we need to detail the design, acquire motors/gearboxes, wheels, batteries, build the chassis, design/build the electronic and realtime programming if it includes a micro controller.

 

So I was wondering if we should shelve  this design/build our own robot until next as we will have more time to do a better job.

And for this event in august just buy a robot kit from someone like activerobotics, then all we would probably have to do is to put so armour on the chassis and do some micro (Arduino) programming to integrate the motor drives with the RC stuff.

 

What you think guys, try to roll our own and have nothing working on the day, or buy a kit and build it?

 

Ian

 

 

---

From: potteries...@googlegroups.com [mailto:potteries...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Lionschasing .

Sent: 29 May 2015 10:32

[Ian Knight]

Re my previous post, this may be the way ahead.

https://www.google.co.uk/#q=sumo+robot+kit&tbs=ctr:countryUK%7CcountryGB&cr=countryUK%7CcountryGB

 

 

---

From: potteries...@googlegroups.com [mailto:potteries...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Lionschasing .

Sent: 29 May 2015 10:32

[James Davies]

If jib or Archie is happy with doing the speed controllers I'm confident we can get something sorted. I have parts that can be recycled if needed. What do you think the bottle neck will be Ian?

I'm popping down to hs with a friend or two tomorrow to do some work on the go cart, would be good to see you there :)

On 30 May 2015, at 21:20, Ian Knight <imk...@sky.com> wrote:

Hello Guys,

 

So if I am ok tomorrow (Sunday) I am going to build a wooden mockup of the robot design I have.

However given the amount of time we have before the competition I was wondering if we have time to build our own from scratch.

Inasmuch much as we need to detail the design, acquire motors/gearboxes, wheels, batteries, build the chassis, design/build the electronic and realtime programming if it includes a micro controller.

 

So I was wondering if we should shelve  this design/build our own robot until next as we will have more time to do a better job.

And for this event in august just buy a robot kit from someone like activerobotics, then all we would probably have to do is to put so armour on the chassis and do some micro (Arduino) programming to integrate the motor drives with the RC stuff.

 

What you think guys, try to roll our own and have nothing working on the day, or buy a kit and build it?

 

Ian

 

 

[Ian Knight]

What time you think you are going? As if I am ok I want to building the wooden mockup so late afternoon evening would be my time.

 

Hold up is simple, we need motor, gearbox and wheels in order to build the chassis around.

Then we need someone to do all the material weight calculations (how think steel plate and chassis members) so we built it as close as  possible to maximum weight

Then we need to do detailed drawing of motor/gearbox, wheels and proposed chassis layout that will accommodate the weapon (lance), motor controller and batteries.

 

Then we can divide team into two, One electronics/software eg motor control etc. Two Chassis building.

 

See attached PDF, it may work in 3D if you have 3d libraries installed else it’ll be in 2D

Real simple design: and works either way up so if it gets rolled the electronics detects the inversion and reverses/swops over the controls.

Two side panels welded to 20/25mm angle iron frame with corner filets and front beam lance that is 20mmx40mm solid bar ground to an edge.

Then it has two top plates and two bottom plates that all four are the same as robot is symmetrical these are fixed to the angle iron with hardened 5mm counter sunk hex screws into rivet nuts.

 

Once it is made we give it to Genesis to heat treat and harden the steel (please)

 

Basically it is and charge and ram’em tank!

 

Ian

PS Name one in Vlad III the impaler, or JYD (Junk Yard Dog or as mad as)

[James Wade]

Let me know when you guys are down.

I spotted yesterday that some robot wars stuff had turned up...

[Ian Knight]

James, can we gut that robot in the picture and use it for parts?

If so pull it apart and weigh them please, then we can see if we can build a robot from them that comes in the 10kg limit.

ian

 

---

[James Davies]

I'll be there at 12. Yes we can use bits from that one Ian. 

James Davies
Year 3 Medical Student
University of Keele

[Jibreel Arshad]

I can come around 2pm

[lionschasing]

I own a 1.5kg brushed motor that has a 4 HP output. We can either attach it to a 300A 60v controller and battery pack. I've got some tiny wheels that I can bring to minimize impact

[Lionschasing .]

Just to let you know. I have spoken to a company called Enabling Technology Ltd

(Tel:  01785 243111 Castlefields, Newport Rd, Stafford, Staffordshire, ST16 1BU)

They build pic controller keyboard assemblies and want to know if we can help them with coding a pic controller. I have invited them over to the hackspace for Tuesday 7:30pm.

[Ian Knight]

Hi guys,

So I have built the wooden mockup of my proposed robot design for these robot wars.

Simple symmetrical design that is basically a ram’em and smash’em bot. (peace through superior firepower)

The front member should be about 20x40mm steel that is ground to a blade and the vertical blade should also be ground.

Not clear is the vertical is on a bearing so if the robot becomes inverted the vertical blade runs through the chassis thus rendering the robot symmetrical and therefore it has no top or bottom.

If the robot becomes inverted the system electronics will have a gravity sensor that will reverse and crossover the motors.

 

Simple to make inasmuch as the two side and two inner chassis members can be cut the same then the inner one shortened to fit.

The robot will also have four cover plates (top/bottom) that are also the same.

Unique chassis components are the front blade, rear chassis member and the vertical blade.

 

See pics

 

Ian

 

 

 

 

---

From: potteries...@googlegroups.com [mailto:potteries...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of James Wade

Sent: 31 May 2015 09:14
To: potteries...@googlegroups.com

[James Davies]

Cool mockup Ian, I really like it :) 

I vote for "Peace Through Superior Firepower" as the name ;) 

Gravity sensor sounds cool- would it be easer and more reliable to have a switch on the Tx though? 

Archie- thats great- will we see them (and you) on Tuesday then?

Sorry Jib, only just saw your message. Robot meet on Tuesday then? You left just before Eliot had a big crash on the GoCart! Ended up in the fence at the bottom!

James Davies
Year 3 Medical Student
University of Keele

[Jibreel Arshad]

The mock up is great, cant beat the strength of triangles.

As a firm believer in KISS development, I vote for switch on Tx. Just have to train the driver. Would like keep the electronics simple.

Heck, is he ok? Do we need weld a fence back together?

[James Davies]

Discuss options on Tuesday? I can recycle most parts if needed, but would be good to do as much as possible new.

Fence is fine and so was he, he had most of the chicane in his front tires by the end which slowed him down just as he got to the fence. Lucky. He was running for about 25 meters with no brakes or steering! 

James Davies
Year 3 Medical Student
University of Keele

[Ian Knight]

James,

We did talk about a reversal switch on tx and ok if you want it like that, but it will need to reverse the motors and swop left for right.

So I though that in the heat of battle it maybe operator overload figuring which way up the robot was.

Gravity switch can have issues if robot if in flight eg being flipped by other robot.

So it is up to you which way you want to go on this one.

Ian

 

---

[Ian Knight]

Also I had a thought on way home the robot only needs a top and bottom panel really so it would reduce the panel count by two.

One big one rather that two small ones.

 

 

---

From: potteries...@googlegroups.com [mailto:potteries...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of James Davies

Sent: 31 May 2015 21:37

[Ian Knight]

Mmmmm just had another idea, the two outer side and the back could be a single sheet that was folded!

 

---

From: potteries...@googlegroups.com [mailto:potteries...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of James Davies

Sent: 31 May 2015 21:37

[James Davies]

Red top yellow bottom? To remove any confusion? :)

James Davies
Year 3 Medical Student
University of Keele

[Ian Knight]

Found this steel weight calculator and will be really useful to keep inside 10kg limit.

http://www.micas.co.uk/calculator.htm

Two sides and back panel in 3mm sheet is already 1.7 kg

Inner supports 3mm  1.2kg

Top and bottom 3mm about 1.4

Blade 5mm 0.6 kg.

About 4.9 kg and still need other bits and fixing etc.

Plus motors gear box wheel batteries… going to be tight

 

Maybe top/bottom from alloy would save a kg

[James Davies]

Or plastic?

James Davies
Year 3 Medical Student
University of Keele

[James Davies]

Does anyone have weighing scales they could bring along on Tuesday? 

James Davies
Year 3 Medical Student
University of Keele

[Ian Knight]

Plastic possible, don’t know much about which one and also cost but I think Kevlar could be use for top/bottom.

What we really need to do is to select the motors/gearbox, batteries, wheels etc. get them weighed up (5kg or 6kg max) and then build a chassis that bring us up to 10kg..

I don’t think it will be easy..

That said, what about 1mm panels with 15mm angle iron welded on, lot more making but should save some weight.

[Ian Knight]

I have called James House (Tech Sales) of rotalink re our motor requirements, he is working on it and I guess will be back to me in a day or so.

I told him it was PHS and robot wars and he was really interested in the project, me be just me be we will be luckier than we can hope for, fingers crossed guys!

http://www.rotalink.com/contact-us.html

[Ian Knight]

Hi Ian

 

Thanks for the link. It looks like you’ve got a great set-up at the Potteries Hackspace.

 

You mentioned on the phone that you were thinking of assigning about quarter of your 10kg weight allocation towards the drive motors. Rotalink’s biggest geared motor is our 360 gearbox on a D4566-type motor. One of these weighs about 700g. Our use of polymers in our gear trains rather than metal means it’s power to weight ratio is better than most gearmotors of its size, but the question remains: does it produce the power you’re looking for?

 

A 10kg mass to travelling at 5m/s has 125J of kinetic energy. The nominal output power of our most powerful D4566-type motor (the D4566-5524F) is 125W. This means that two of them will, allowing 50% efficiency for drag and mechanical losses, get your robot up to speed in about a second.

 

The shortest ratio we have for the 360 is 33:1, which will give an output speed of 400rpm. You’ll therefore need 24cm diameter wheels to hit 5 meters per second, which is unfortunate. If you can accommodate these, however, the two gearmotors will between them be able to apply 100N of forward force if adequate grip can be provided.

 

My only concern is whether the 360 gearbox can stand up to the rigors of – well – combat. The D4566-5524F will shred the 360 if the output shaft is locked. I’m hoping that the wheels will slip before this can happen, but testing will be required.

 

If these numbers sound workable, I can put a couple of these gearmotors together for you after hours. £60 in the post for the Sales Team’s next evening out would be all I’d need in return.

 

If me and a friend of mine were to find the time in the next couple of months to have a go at making a machine, would we be able to get in on this? I think there’s a hackspace in Bristol that would be within striking distance if we need membership. Everyone with an engineering degree has fantasised at some point about making one of the 100kg leviathans that fought on the Robot Wars TV show back in the day, but that’s a massive undertaking. 10kg, on the other hand, is much more achievable and (as I’ve shown about) the sort of size where Rotalink parts would be usable.

 

Regards

 

James House

Sales Engineer

 

 

---

[James Davies]

Hi Ian, Great that he sounds keen! 24cm wheels for 5mph doesnt sound great though. And shredding the gears sounds worrying... 

£60 is also a bit dear... What are your thoughts?

Is he based in Bristol? It'd be great for him to pop along to Bristol HS and get involved! 

James II

James Davies
Year 3 Medical Student
University of Keele

[Ian Knight]

James,

£60 is ok by me and I would hope PHS, but like you I think the gearbox is not strong enough.

24cm wheel is not too much of a problem but we could reduce it to 15cm or 20cm and reduce the speed and increase the push.

Also larger wheels would have a better grip.

If I have time ill have a look for another motor, as I hope other are doing.

 

Would be nice for him to join Bristol HS and come along.

 

Last did you have time last night to pull the motor from your old robot to ee if we can find one on ebay and then pirate your old bot.

Ian

 

---

[Ian Knight]

Did anyone also look at the motor specs?

 41.13 amp stall current, a hefty H bridge required for this also how long is a battle to run for as I guess mean current (amps) during battle (reversing, turning, stalled) will be 15/20amps x 2 motors so maybe 40 ah battery would be a minimum

Anyone any comments on this?

[Ian Knight]

Also 2 x 200 watts is going to need a fan to stop it frying!

 

---

From: potteries...@googlegroups.com [mailto:potteries...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of James Davies

Sent: 03 June 2015 19:22

[James Davies]

Encourage him to join! :) 

No not yet sorry. Will do this week. 

How do these scooter motors look? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Unite-Electric-E-Scooter-Motor-24-Volt-120-Watt-16-Teeth-Belt-Sprocket-120w-24v-/171793948945

Battles up to 3 minutes long. 

James Davies
Year 3 Medical Student
University of Keele

[Jibreel Arshad]

Surely the gearbox is the bigger problem here. I'm not to sure about belt drive, doubt it'd stand up to much abuse.

Think I saw a H bridge rated at 40 amps, think it was about $60, will post tomorrow

[James Davies]

True, and it would take up a lot of space...

[lionschasing]

I'm bringing you two motors to borrow for this project one is the etek for the go kart one is a 4hp 1.5kg motor beast

[David Parr]

Polycarbonate sheet is probably going to be your best option for a plastic body. It is reasonably cheap, easy to saw and drill, and has good impact resistance. Some grades are used to make bullet-proof windscreens. 

Cheers,

Dave

[lionschasing]

Peukert effect any sealed lead battery will be considered at half amp hour capacity if under high draw :o)
Let's use lipo

Ian Knight <imk...@sky.com> wrote:

Did anyone also look at the motor specs?

 41.13 amp stall current, a hefty H bridge required for this also how long is a battle to run for as I guess mean current (amps) during battle (reversing, turning, stalled) will be 15/20amps x 2 motors so maybe 40 ah battery would be a minimum

Anyone any comments on this?

 

From: potteries...@googlegroups.com [mailto:potteries...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ian Knight
Sent: 03 June 2015 19:35
To: potteries...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [Potteries Hackspace] Inter HackSpace Robot- PotteriesBot

 

James,

£60 is ok by me and I would hope PHS, but like you I think the gearbox is not strong enough.

<p class

[Ian Knight]

James,

Motor looks a possible, about same watts but does not say if torque is running or stall, if running it v good if stall not quite as good as Rotalink.

I would say if we can get a belt and a sprocket of same pitch with about 50 teeth then given the time we have it is ok.

Only issue is what if we strip the motor sprocket on motor we are done, unless he has spares.

Good find and worth a look if can short other parts.

 

I just had quick look at his site and dozen pages of sprocket and belt… So ask him if he can supply bits we need, maybe even a wheel

Ian

 

---

[Ian Knight]

Hi Ian

 

I think I may have been overly cautious with the choice of motor.

 

As you may or may not know, the speed of a brushed DC motor decreases linearly as the load on it increases. Meanwhile, current draw (and hence heat build-up) increases. These are two key points on this torque-speed-current graph – the maximum efficiency point and the maximum power point.

 

The maximum efficiency point is where the ratio of mechanical power out to electrical power in is the highest. Running at maximum efficiency a motor can run continuously for hundreds of hours without burning out. This point is around 1/5 and 1/6 of the stall torque (the load at with the motor ceases to turn entirely). The D4566-5524F gives the performance I described below at its maximum efficiency point. This means that when it’s stalled, it gives six times the torque it does when running normally. This breaks the gearbox.

 

The thing is, a robot wars bout doesn’t last for hundreds of hours – it lasts for five minutes. It may well be possible for a motor to run at its maximum power point for this time. This is the point where mechanical power output is a high as possible. It typically sits at ½ of stall torque.

 

The trouble is, motors running at maximum power are a lot slower than those running at maximum efficiency. If we go through with this plan, the 33:1 ratio on the 360 will stop us getting even close to the required speed. We therefore need to consider the 330, our second strongest gearbox. This has a 16:1 ratio.

 

Onto this we can add our D3857-3250 motor. This produces 80W of mechanical power when running at the maximum power point, so it will take more like 2 seconds for two of them to accelerate the robot up to 5m/s. However, when stalled it will not exceed the 5Nm torque capacity of the 330. The attached datasheet hopefully illustrates what I mean.

 

The 330 has the added benefit of being more compact than the 360, and so will be easier to incorporate into the design.

 

I am going to see if I can get some of these units on test in the next couple of weeks. They will be run for 3 seconds at full speed, then stalled for 3 seconds. This process will be repeated for the duration of one of your bouts, plus a margin of safety. How long does a bout last?

 

Regards

 

James

[James Davies]

This bot is powered by 2 £15 argos drill motors https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdrcsAzbNHA

Looks quite quick, though for a rammer it could be quicker... 

James Davies
Year 3 Medical Student
University of Keele

[James Davies]

Interesting email Ian, would be good to see what his tests return and how much those motors cost compared to comparable ones.

James Davies
Year 3 Medical Student
University of Keele

[Ian Knight]

Motor looks ok, but think that rig is lot less than 20lbs also it looks like there is a gear integral to the wheel and the motor gearbox has on its spindle another gear. (Not clear could be wrong)

[Ian Knight]

This site maybe the projects saviour.

http://www.transdev.co.uk/

Maybe just maybe they can help us with a wheel pulley and belt to match the 120w ebay scooter motors.

Someone going to chat them up?

 

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From: potteries...@googlegroups.com [mailto:potteries...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of James Davies

Sent: 04 June 2015 19:26