It's a fact current iOS devices can't even report the correct cell tower ID

[harry newton]

It's a fact that current iOS devices can't even report the correct unique
cell tower ID to the user (the iOS apps, like the iOS users, *just guess*).

Meanwhile, on Android, *accurate* freeware unique celltower debugging apps
abound (i.e., Android users aren't forced to *just guess*).

01 Network Cell Info Lite, version 3.30:
http://i.cubeupload.com/HoKTav.jpg
http://wilysis.com/networkcellinfo
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.wilysis.cellinfolite

02 Network Signal Info, version 3.63.01:
http://i.cubeupload.com/2zK8Ys.jpg
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.android.telnet

03 GSM Signal Monitoring, version 4.02:
http://i.cubeupload.com/V9O0Gg.jpg
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.signalmonitoring.gsmsignalmonitoring

04 Netmonitor, version 1.2.15:
http://i.cubeupload.com/TfDJaS.jpg
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.parizene.netmonitor

05 CellID Info:, version 1.2.2:
http://i.cubeupload.com/X3gsfb.jpg
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.its_here.cellidinfo

06 RF Toolbox (Cell Monitor), version 2.26:
http://i.cubeupload.com/y2YfEV.jpg
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.btapps.rftoolbox

07 WiGle WiFi Wardriving (which also reports cellular towers):
http://i.cubeupload.com/ZPva3O.jpg
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.wigle.wigleandroid

As you know, I have multiple cellular emitters in my own home, and all my
neighbors have them also, plus we're on a mountain so we can see towers
from all over - so it's important - when debugging (since we're far from
any commercial tower) to know *exactly* what is going on and not *just
guess*.

Unfortunately, on iOs, I looked for an app that *correctly* reported my
unique celltower ID, and found none that didn't *just guess*.

Do any iOS users know of an iOS app that *correctly* reports the unique
celltower ID (and doesn't *just guess* like most iOS users generally do
fall all such debugging endeavors)?

[nospam]

In article <ose7ia$1891$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, harry newton

<ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

> It's a fact that current iOS devices can't even report the correct unique
> cell tower ID to the user (the iOS apps, like the iOS users, *just guess*).

false.

[harry newton]

He who is harry newton said on Sat, 21 Oct 2017 01:23:23 +0000 (UTC):

> Unfortunately, on iOs, I looked for an app that *correctly* reported my
> unique celltower ID, and found none that didn't *just guess*.

Given the classic iOS Apologists tricks, since they're so very *desperate*
to show something (anything) that iOS can do functionally (even to the
desperate point of making up fictional iOS capabilities as they did on the
WiFi signal strength thread) ... we must state some *obvious* points.

1. We're talking nonjailbroken/non rooted devices
2. We're talking current iOS and Android capabilities (not iOS 4.x)
3. We're talking the *accurate* celltower ID (not some Internet *guess*)

Note that Apple deprecated the GUI that *used* to allow users to get the
*correct* information, way back in iOS 4.x - so no accurate apps currently
exist on the iOS store despite the classic iOS apologist's trick of editing
a screenshot which nospam and Jolly Roger will *claim* shows current
capabilities (but does nothing of the sort).

*The question is*:
Is there a single iOS user who doesn't *just guess* when they need to debug
their celltower signal strength issues?

[Snit]

On 10/20/17, 6:31 PM, in article ose81u$18qm$1...@gioia.aioe.org, "harry

newton" <ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

> He who is harry newton said on Sat, 21 Oct 2017 01:23:23 +0000 (UTC):
>
>> Unfortunately, on iOs, I looked for an app that *correctly* reported my
>> unique celltower ID, and found none that didn't *just guess*.
>
> Given the classic iOS Apologists tricks, since they're so very *desperate*
> to show something (anything) that iOS can do functionally (even to the
> desperate point of making up fictional iOS capabilities as they did on the
> WiFi signal strength thread) ... we must state some *obvious* points.

You actually made things up there -- or at least made claims you never
supported. You said Apple disallows showing WiFi signal strength. Maybe.
Maybe not. You NEVER backed that.

> 1. We're talking nonjailbroken/non rooted devices

And yet to show Android doing the simple task of recording its own screen
and sounds AND voice, you used a rooted device.

> 2. We're talking current iOS and Android capabilities (not iOS 4.x)

Many CURRENT Android devices do not use the current Android OS. This is a
big weakness.

> 3. We're talking the *accurate* celltower ID (not some Internet *guess*)
>
> Note that Apple deprecated the GUI that *used* to allow users to get the
> *correct* information, way back in iOS 4.x - so no accurate apps currently
> exist on the iOS store despite the classic iOS apologist's trick of editing
> a screenshot which nospam and Jolly Roger will *claim* shows current
> capabilities (but does nothing of the sort).
>
> *The question is*:
> Is there a single iOS user who doesn't *just guess* when they need to debug
> their celltower signal strength issues?

When would they need this? I do not have an iPhone but I have NEVER needed
this on my Android device.


--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot
use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow
superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

<https://youtu.be/H4NW-Cqh308>

[nospam]

In article <ose81u$18qm$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, harry newton

<ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

> He who is harry newton said on Sat, 21 Oct 2017 01:23:23 +0000 (UTC):
> > Unfortunately, on iOs, I looked for an app that *correctly* reported my
> > unique celltower ID, and found none that didn't *just guess*.
>
> Given the classic iOS Apologists tricks, since they're so very *desperate*
> to show something (anything) that iOS can do functionally (even to the
> desperate point of making up fictional iOS capabilities as they did on the
> WiFi signal strength thread) ... we must state some *obvious* points.
>
> 1. We're talking nonjailbroken/non rooted devices
> 2. We're talking current iOS and Android capabilities (not iOS 4.x)
> 3. We're talking the *accurate* celltower ID (not some Internet *guess*)

why are you replying to yourself?

anyway, what you describe is trivial to do on an iphone running ios 10.

it most likely will work with ios 11 but it's not worth the trouble to
test it because you argue no matter what anyone says.

[harry newton]

He who is nospam said on Fri, 20 Oct 2017 21:28:09 -0400:

>> It's a fact that current iOS devices can't even report the correct unique
>> cell tower ID to the user (the iOS apps, like the iOS users, *just guess*).
>
> false.

Proof?

I'd *love* for any iOS apologist to prove my facts wrong!

It's a fact that Apple doesn't allow the user to have direct access to
accurate cell tower id (*and*, I think, directly measured celltower
frequency information), so all the debugging information available to the
iOS user is purely *imaginary*.

Prove me wrong. I'm not afraid of facts like you iOS apologists are.
Facts don't bother me like they bother the iOS gullibles.

The best that iOS users can currently get are apps that *just guess* such
as this MIT iOS OpenSignal test report showing an *imaginary cell tower* in
the middle of a river.
<http://people.csail.mit.edu/bkph/images/20111130072559.png>

Meanwhile, Android users can get a *graph over time* of their celltower
signal strength, much like the WiFi graph over time of signal strength!
<https://u.cubeupload.com/3rDsHX.jpg>

That's my own cellular tower signal strength graph over time inside my own
home as I move from floor to floor, where this is another plot over time
inside my home (hint to iOS apologists - those are decibels, not megabits!)
<https://u.cubeupload.com/4HQqh8.jpg>

With Android freeware, I can get all sorts of useful cellular measurements
such as this plot of 2G, 3G, and 4G connectivity statistics:
<https://u.cubeupload.com/NQ0xJU.jpg>

With that same Android freeware, I can export the results to CSV to
maintain a record over long periods of time, for example:
<https://u.cubeupload.com/W1AAaK.jpg>

Why are iOS users force to always work with *imaginary* data where iOS
users *just guess* when they wish to debug or set up their femtotowers or
repeaters or when they just wish to learn more about their cellular signal?

--
It has been proven the iOS apologists don't understand decibels, but here's
a real-world chart for cellular signal strength for those who do understand
decibels (and who don't confuse them with megabits):
-40 dBm - theoretical maximum (impossible in the real world though)
-50 dBm to -75 dBm - High for cellular
-76 dBm to -90 dBm - Medium for cellular
-91 dBm to -100 dBm - Low for cellular
-101 dBm to -120 dBm - Poor for cellular

[harry newton]

He who is nospam said on Fri, 20 Oct 2017 21:58:40 -0400:

> anyway, what you describe is trivial to do on an iphone running ios 10.
>
> it most likely will work with ios 11 but it's not worth the trouble to
> test it because you argue no matter what anyone says.

Show us.

For example, on Android, using freeware, it's easy to visualize
cellular decibels in a graph over time as you move about when everything is
working fine and steady like this:
<http://i.cubeupload.com/TPLLXF.jpg>

Yet, look how precipitously the cellular signal fell when I disconnected
each of my personal home towers, where iOS users will never notice that the
towers changed three times in that process - since - on iOS - you can't get
that fast-changing information in an app.
<http://i.cubeupload.com/ciKH3h.jpg>

With this kind of debugging information I am best able to control and
adjust my signal strength, to make choices as to which devices to enable,
so that I control a range of as much as -51 to -109 decibels (i.e., 58
decibels!) within the span of a single minute.
<http://i.cubeupload.com/zN4Dkb.jpg>

I not only controlled the received signal strength by almost five hundred
thousand times, but I knew exactly which (of multiple) towers I was using
in that one-minute process.

This would be impossible on my Apple iOS devices.

If you could prove me wrong, you would - but you can't.
In fact, all the iOS apologists would *love* for you to prove me wrong.

But iOS apologists live in a world of *imaginary* functionality.

[harry newton]

He who is Snit said on Fri, 20 Oct 2017 18:47:40 -0700:

> When would they need this?

Heh heh ... Of course you never needed *accurate* information.
You're an iOS apologist, silly.

You *just guess*.
You work with *imaginary* data all the time.
And you never fix anything.

If you could manage your signal strength by almost five hundred thousand
times in the span of a minute, all the while knowing exactly what you were
controlling, would you do that?

I did (although I realize you iOS apologists don't understand decibels):
<http://i.cubeupload.com/zN4Dkb.jpg>

I, for one, know exactly which towers give me a steady minus sixty dB:
<http://i.cubeupload.com/TPLLXF.jpg>

And I know which towers give me decreasingly lower and lower signal
strength:
<http://i.cubeupload.com/ciKH3h.jpg>

Can you control your signal strength by five hundred thousand times?
Why not?

Like many people in my area, I have, for example *two* separate cellular
signal emitters in my home, where both are needed given the size of my
house and associated ranch area:
<https://u.cubeupload.com/WoN2gQ.jpg>

If all I owned were iOS devices, I could never tell if my current cellular
connection was from any given distant tower, or the cellular repeater, or
the cellular femtotower.

If all I owned were iOS devices, I'd be forced to *just guess* while
working with pretty *imaginary data* like the iOS apologists do all the
time.

> I have NEVER needed this ...

Of course you never needed accurate debugging tools, silly.

Hell, you proved you can't even correctly *comprehend* a speedtest for
heaven's sake!

You should stay out of this thread as it's *way* over your head
technically, as it is for almost all the iOS apologists.

The only iOS gullible capable of understanding this thread is nospam.

But nospam just *guesses* so there really are no *intelligent* iOS users
out there on this newsgroup.

At least none intelligent enough to ever prove me wrong.

Specifically, no iOS apologist can find a current app on the app store that
simply gives the user *accurate* information about the cell tower for
debugging purposes.

If they could, they would, but they can't, because iOS apologists live in a
world filled with *imaginary* functionality.

--
HINT: I improved my cellular signal by a factor of five hundred thousand!

[Snit]

On 10/20/17, 7:23 PM, in article oseb2r$1dbv$1...@gioia.aioe.org, "harry

newton" <ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

> He who is Snit said on Fri, 20 Oct 2017 18:47:40 -0700:
>
>> When would they need this?
>
> Heh heh ... Of course you never needed *accurate* information.

Straw man.

> You're an iOS apologist, silly.

Name calling.

> You *just guess*.

False claim.

> You work with *imaginary* data all the time.

False claim.

> And you never fix anything.

Direct lie.

And not reading the rest. When your every sentence is just flat out trolling
why would I?

[nospam]

In article <oseb1b$1dar$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, harry newton

<ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

>
> > anyway, what you describe is trivial to do on an iphone running ios 10.
> >
> > it most likely will work with ios 11 but it's not worth the trouble to
> > test it because you argue no matter what anyone says.
>
> Show us.

i did last year.

several times, actually.

[nospam]

In article <ose9ou$1am0$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, harry newton

<ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

>
> I'd *love* for any iOS apologist to prove my facts wrong!

they do so with regularity.

[harry newton]

He who is Snit said on Fri, 20 Oct 2017 19:27:03 -0700:

>> You *just guess*.
>
> False claim.

When you post a screenshot proving your own statements (as I did for mine),
then we'll know you're not again completely making up *imaginary* iOS
functionality (as are all the iOS apologists in this thread to date).

One thing you don't know, that I do know, because I can see the tower Id's
bouncing about, is that the towers do change constantly.
<http://i.cubeupload.com/ZHepme.jpg>

Within seconds sometimes, the connected tower changes to another tower in
another direction which can be ten or fifteen miles from me and ten or
fifteen miles from each other.

Without these Android freewaqre applications, I wouldn't know this accurate
information.
<http://i.cubeupload.com/OwXjWZ.jpg>

Sometimes the signal strength changes by a lot, sometimes it doesn't change
by much when the towers bounce, just as sometimes the signal fluctuates
when the towers don't bounce.

So the signal strength doesn't tell me anything about the towers.
<http://i.cubeupload.com/407ihh.jpg>

Now Snit ... here's your chance to (finally) tell the truth...

Show me how your *imaginary iOS functionality* is going to *accurately*
report the cell tower ID of the tower I'm connected to, when it could be
any cellular tower of T-Mobile, or of my neighbors' personal femtotowers,
or even of these two which I personally own and have in my own home at this
very moment:
<https://u.cubeupload.com/WoN2gQ.jpg>

Or did you (again) just make up your iOS apologist classic trick of
creating *imaginary iOS functionality* because you're utterly *desperate*
to claim something (anything) where iOS users don't *just guess" at when
they need *accurate* information about which cell tower they're actually
connecting to.

--
As a courtesy to intelligent people, I will not respond further to your
claims of imaginary functionality where you're utterly *desperate* to claim
iOS users don't *just guess* the unique cell tower ID.

[harry newton]

He who is nospam said on Fri, 20 Oct 2017 22:27:10 -0400:

>> Show us.
>
> i did last year.
>
> several times, actually.

As a courtesy to intelligent people, I will not respond further to your

classic iOS apologist trick of claiming *imaginary iOS functionality*
sans a shred of proof.

Intelligent people know you just make it all up because you're desperate to
apologize for iOS' utter lack of functionality compared to Android.

Meanwhile, I have complete *accurate* logs of all the cell antennas I've
been connecting to for months on end...
a. NetMonitor logs are the most customizable
http://i.cubeupload.com/ZAcsok.jpg
b. GSM Signal Monitoring has great csv logs
http://i.cubeupload.com/69bgcS.jpg
b. CellTracker logs manually (by pressing the blue arrows)
http://i.cubeupload.com/FhY2UX.jpg

--
The iOS apologists *desperately* claim *imaginary* iOS functionality, where
the factg is that iOS apologists always *just guess*.

[Snit]

On 10/20/17, 7:49 PM, in article osecj2$1evp$1...@gioia.aioe.org, "harry

newton" <ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

> He who is Snit said on Fri, 20 Oct 2017 19:27:03 -0700:
>
>>> You *just guess*.
>>
>> False claim.
>
> When you post a screenshot proving your own statements (as I did for mine),
> then we'll know you're not again completely making up *imaginary* iOS
> functionality (as are all the iOS apologists in this thread to date).

I did. I showed on a non-jail-broken iOS device the following:

* Record screen AND voice AND device sounds without jail breaking.
Also record desktop screen and sound with the time coordinated.

You showed on Android:

* Record screen AND voice AND device sounds WITH ROOTING

Then you lied about what I asked about.

You also claimed Apple will not let developers show WiFi signal strenght...
which MIGHT be true but you offered NO evidence.

You see, Harry, you lie with pretty much every comment you make. You did the
same with my comments about cell towers -- you flat out lied.

And I give you FAR too much attention.

...

[nospam]

In article <D61007FC.BB4A8%use...@gallopinginsanity.com>, Snit

<use...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

>
> You also claimed Apple will not let developers show WiFi signal strenght...
> which MIGHT be true but you offered NO evidence.

it's not true.

[nospam]

In article <ose9ou$1am0$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, harry newton

<ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

> It's a fact that Apple doesn't allow the user to have direct access to
> accurate cell tower id (*and*, I think, directly measured celltower
> frequency information), so all the debugging information available to the
> iOS user is purely *imaginary*.

they do and it's not imaginary.

> Prove me wrong.

if you insist, not that one more time will make a difference, although
this one is certainly one of the most amusing ones.

> I'm not afraid of facts like you iOS apologists are.
> Facts don't bother me like they bother the iOS gullibles.

facts really should bother you, because they show you just how utterly
ignorant you are.

> The best that iOS users can currently get are apps that *just guess* such
> as this MIT iOS OpenSignal test report showing an *imaginary cell tower* in
> the middle of a river.
> <http://people.csail.mit.edu/bkph/images/20111130072559.png>

you mean the best that *android* users can currently get, because that
is very clearly screenshot from an *android* device, one with 854x480
pixels, otherwise known as fwvga.

here's a list of possible contenders:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mobile_phones_with_FWVGA_display>

note the similarity of the status bar icons with android 2.x:
<http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/815983/home-21.png>
<http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/815991/home-22.png>

not a single iphone or ipad has that resolution or has that design
language, so it *can't* be ios users who are guessing.

it's android users, based evidence *you* provided.

and if that's not enough, you also don't understand how to read the map.

the tower isn't in the middle of the river.

did you somehow miss the line connecting the strength icon to the
marker pin?

the tower is where the marker pin is, at the corner of mass ave and
memorial drive, by killian court. on land.

it is *not* in the middle of the charles river.

tl;dr - you are an idiot.

[dorayme]

In article <D60FFE87.BB49A%use...@gallopinginsanity.com>,

Snit <use...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> And not reading the rest. When your every sentence is just flat out trolling
> why would I?

Wtf are you replying at all if you sseriously think you are talking to
a troll? Nothing better to do?

--
dorayme

[harry newton]

He who is dorayme said on Sat, 21 Oct 2017 17:49:49 +1100:

> Wtf are you replying at all if you sseriously think you are talking to
> a troll? Nothing better to do?

Hi dorayme,

Just to be clear, since you didn't mention an understanding of the fact
that my posts are on topic, and of technical merit, for anyone on either
mobile-device platform who wishes to know how to perform the stated tasks,
and, who wishes to understand the factual difference between the platforms.

The trolls Snit & nospam have provided no such added on-topic value to
date, as they merely fabricate imaginary iOS capabilities - and hence they
provide a disservice to the mobile device community overall in every post.

Worse, the incessant troll Snit whom you're responding to continually posts
completely off-topic garbage insinuating that only iOS can record screen
audio & video when Android has been doing that native for years, and, in
fact, iOS only was able to do that native last month. (I hope you will note
and very much appreciate that I never respond to those many and incessant
trolls - save once to tell him to quit - which he refuses to do.)

As I already stated, as a courtesy to intelligent people, I have no
intention of replying further to either nospam or Snit until/unless they
actually provide factual technical on-topic value in this thread, as the
facts are stated.

If someone can please find an iOS app in the app store that can tell us
*accurate* id information about which celltower we're actually connected
to, then we will all benefit from this information which nospam repeatedly
insists, exists.

-

>> It's a fact that Apple doesn't allow the user to have direct access to
>> accurate cell tower id (*and*, I think, directly measured celltower

>> frequency information)...
>
> nospam: they do and it's not imaginary.

[harry newton]

He who is nospam said on Sat, 21 Oct 2017 01:04:24 -0400:

> it's android users, based evidence *you* provided.

Heh heh ... I never said you weren't clever at distorting iOS capabilities!

That consistent iOS apologist trick only work on the iOS gullibles (who
blindly high-five your completely fabricated claims of *imaginary* iOS
functionality).

I already know that you know that on iOS/Android OpenSignal (which both you
and that utter moron Jolly Roger trolled numerous times in the past), the
tower locations reported by either iOS or Android are not the actual tower
coordinates +IBQ- but merely the average of coordinates where other peoples'
cell phones were when they connected to that tower.

Hence, your own statements further reveal there is absolutely *nothing* on
iOS that reports the accurate cell tower ID information to the user.

If there was, you'd not be wasting everyone's time with your admittedly
clever distortions of fact.

*You can only play your clever contortion tricks on the iOS gullibles.*

In your desperate attempt to conjure (what turns out to be imaginary) iOS
functionality, you have yet to prove your completely fabricated claim that
iOS has any capability to accurately report the cell tower ID (and other
important technical information) to the iOS user.

[Alan Browne]

On 2017-10-20 21:58, nospam wrote:
<s>

Why do you keep giving it oxygen?

[B...@onramp.net]

On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 20:07:24 -0700, Snit
<use...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

>On 10/20/17, 7:49 PM, in article osecj2$1evp$1...@gioia.aioe.org, "harry
>newton" <ha...@is.invalid> wrote:
>
>> He who is Snit said on Fri, 20 Oct 2017 19:27:03 -0700:
>>
>>>> You *just guess*.
>>>
>>> False claim.
>>
>> When you post a screenshot proving your own statements (as I did for mine),
>> then we'll know you're not again completely making up *imaginary* iOS
>> functionality (as are all the iOS apologists in this thread to date).
>
>I did. I showed on a non-jail-broken iOS device the following:
>
>* Record screen AND voice AND device sounds without jail breaking.
> Also record desktop screen and sound with the time coordinated.
>
>You showed on Android:
>
>* Record screen AND voice AND device sounds WITH ROOTING
>
>Then you lied about what I asked about.
>
>You also claimed Apple will not let developers show WiFi signal strenght...
>which MIGHT be true but you offered NO evidence.
>
>You see, Harry, you lie with pretty much every comment you make. You did the
>same with my comments about cell towers -- you flat out lied.
>
>And I give you FAR too much attention.
>

Every thing you say is probable, I wouldn't know, but the last
sentence is absolutely dead on. :-)

[dorayme]

In article <osf7o7$pde$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,

harry newton <ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

> He who is nospam said on Sat, 21 Oct 2017 01:04:24 -0400:
>
> > it's android users, based evidence *you* provided.
>
> Heh heh ...

In your post a few minutes back, you said "...I have no

intention of replying further to either nospam or Snit until/unless
they actually provide factual technical on-topic value in this thread"

Does this mean that they *have* provided factual technical on-topic
value in this thread"?

--
dorayme

[harry newton]

He who is B...@Onramp.net said on Sat, 21 Oct 2017 11:10:40 -0500:

> Every thing you say is probable, I wouldn't know, but the last
> sentence is absolutely dead on. :-)

I pray to God you don't vote.

What's so very sad is that this B...@Onramp.net moron is saying it's
"probable" that Android can't record something as trivial as the screen and
sound, when *everyone* knows that feature went *native* years ago, and when
iOS only had it native a month ago (five years later!).

I pray to God that none of you utter moronic iOS apologists vote.

Please God. I beg you. Tell me all iOS people aren't really this dumb!

--
Only on the iOS newsgroups is my faith in humanity utterly shattered.

[harry newton]

He who is dorayme said on Sun, 22 Oct 2017 10:34:24 +1100:

> In your post a few minutes back, you said "...I have no
> intention of replying further to either nospam or Snit until/unless
> they actually provide factual technical on-topic value in this thread"
>
> Does this mean that they *have* provided factual technical on-topic
> value in this thread"?

Good point.
They merely contorted the facts to make it look like I stated an untruth,
where you know, and all intelligent people know, I only speak facts.

I have to wonder if these iOS apologists are actually as dumb as what they
write makes them appear to be.

Do you think they're as dumb as what they write says?
Or are they just pulling our leg?

Another way of asking that is to ask:
Does anyone with a brain actually *believe* a word the iOS apologists say?

[JF Mezei]

On 2017-10-20 21:31, harry newton wrote:

> 1. We're talking nonjailbroken/non rooted devices
> 2. We're talking current iOS and Android capabilities (not iOS 4.x)
> 3. We're talking the *accurate* celltower ID (not some Internet *guess*)

*3001#12345#* in the Phone app gets iPhone into field test mode at which
point you get data up the wazoo on the connection, cell tower IDs, IP
addresses and what not.

[harry newton]

He who is JF Mezei said on Sat, 21 Oct 2017 22:36:12 -0400:

> *3001#12345#* in the Phone app gets iPhone into field test mode at which
> point you get data up the wazoo on the connection, cell tower IDs, IP
> addresses and what not.

Do *all* you iOS apologists *fabricate* non-existent iOS functionality?
Worse ... do the iOS gullibles actually *believe* your fabrications?

Don't you think Jolly Roger & nospam already long ago tried that FTM trick?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/1QKD-6c06_w/2EXLW8vhCQAJ>

Your brazen fabrications of non-existent iOS functionality only work on iOS
gullibles who, apparently (sadly to say), will believe *anything* the iOs
apologist says, sans even a single shred of believable proof.

[Johan]

Op 21-okt.-17 om 03:23 schreef harry newton:

> It's a fact that current iOS devices can't even report the correct unique
> cell tower ID to the user (the iOS apps, like the iOS users, *just guess*).
>

> Meanwhile, on Android, *accurate* freeware unique celltower debugging apps
> abound (i.e., Android users aren't forced to *just guess*).
>
> 01 Network Cell Info Lite, version 3.30:
> http://i.cubeupload.com/HoKTav.jpg http://wilysis.com/networkcellinfo
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.wilysis.cellinfolite
> 02 Network Signal Info, version 3.63.01:
> http://i.cubeupload.com/2zK8Ys.jpg
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.android.telnet
> 03 GSM Signal Monitoring, version 4.02:
> http://i.cubeupload.com/V9O0Gg.jpg
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.signalmonitoring.gsmsignalmonitoring
>
> 04 Netmonitor, version 1.2.15: http://i.cubeupload.com/TfDJaS.jpg
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.parizene.netmonitor
> 05 CellID Info:, version 1.2.2: http://i.cubeupload.com/X3gsfb.jpg
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.its_here.cellidinfo
> 06 RF Toolbox (Cell Monitor), version 2.26:
> http://i.cubeupload.com/y2YfEV.jpg
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.btapps.rftoolbox
> 07 WiGle WiFi Wardriving (which also reports cellular towers):
> http://i.cubeupload.com/ZPva3O.jpg
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.wigle.wigleandroid
> As you know, I have multiple cellular emitters in my own home, and all my
> neighbors have them also, plus we're on a mountain so we can see towers
> from all over - so it's important - when debugging (since we're far from
> any commercial tower) to know *exactly* what is going on and not *just
> guess*.

>
> Unfortunately, on iOs, I looked for an app that *correctly* reported my
> unique celltower ID, and found none that didn't *just guess*.
>

> Do any iOS users know of an iOS app that *correctly* reports the unique
> celltower ID (and doesn't *just guess* like most iOS users generally do
> fall all such debugging endeavors)?

Nothing better to do with your life? When looking on your device for the
celltower (who wants to know?), mind bumping your head.

[Johan]

Op 22-okt.-17 om 02:01 schreef harry newton:

> He who is B...@Onramp.net said on Sat, 21 Oct 2017 11:10:40 -0500:
>
>> Every thing you say is probable, I wouldn't know,  but the last
>> sentence is absolutely dead on. :-)
>
> I pray to God you don't vote.
>
> What's so very sad is that this B...@Onramp.net moron is saying it's
> "probable" that Android can't record something as trivial as the screen and
> sound, when *everyone* knows that feature went *native* years ago, and when
> iOS only had it native a month ago (five years later!).
>
> I pray to God that none of you utter moronic iOS apologists vote.
>
> Please God. I beg you. Tell me all iOS people aren't really this dumb!
>

Also waisting your time praying to someone you don't know he is real.

[harry newton]

He who is Johan said on Sun, 22 Oct 2017 13:11:01 +0200:

> Nothing better to do with your life? When looking on your device for the
> celltower (who wants to know?), mind bumping your head.

Your apology for iOS devices being crippled in functionality is accepted.

You apparently apologize for these two cold hard facts:
1. Android devices have far more functionality than iOS devices, and,
2. There is no functionality on iOS that isn't already on Android.

Let's always be clear the *reason* you are forced to apologize for iOS'
lack of functionality is not that Android is "better" but because Apple
*limits* what iOS apps can do.

We can apologize for *why* Apple limits iOS functionality - but that's a
different discussion which we could argue would have a different answer for
why Apple doesn't allow the iOS user to torrent versus why Apple doesn't
allow the iOS user to automatically record phone calls versus why Apple
doesn't allow the iOS user to graph wifi signal strength over time versus
why Apple doesn't allow the iOS user to have an icon in multiple places for
organization versus why Apple doesn't currently allow the iOS user to
obtain the unique cell-tower ID versus why Apple doesn't allow the iOS user
to put their icons on any grid they desire versus ... (the list goes on and
on as to what functionality Apple doesn't allow iOS users to do).

So I accept your abject apology that iOS will never have anywhere near the
functionality of Android.

Bear in mind you're apologizing for Apple's marketing decisions, and that
you're not apologizing for Apple's hardware.

Apple iOS is crippled in functionality not because of the hardware
functionality (which is, consistently over the years being in the bottom of
the top ten of all mobile devices - although every once in a while, Apple
mobile device hardware in the top of the top ten for a short period of
time), but because of two basic circumstances:
a. Android both invents and copies functionality at will, and,
b. Apple severely constrains what functionality iOS apps can do.

You may apologize for these cold hard facts as much as you want to.

[harry newton]

He who is harry newton said on Sun, 22 Oct 2017 15:13:10 +0000 (UTC):

> You apparently apologize for these two cold hard facts:
> 1. Android devices have far more functionality than iOS devices, and,
> 2. There is no functionality on iOS that isn't already on Android.

Correction because the iOS apologists will contort every word in their
desperate bids to *fabricate* imaginary iOS functionality... so I repeat
with clarification the first three sentences, adding a single clarifying
word....

=========

Your apology for iOS devices being crippled in functionality is accepted.

You apparently apologize for these two cold hard facts:
1. Android devices have far more functionality than iOS devices, and,

2. There is no *app* functionality on iOS that isn't already on Android.
=========

[harry newton]

He who is Johan said on Sun, 22 Oct 2017 13:15:24 +0200:

> Also waisting your time praying to someone you don't know he is real.

I understand that you're opining that I'm "waisting" [sic] my time
explaining to you that the "pray to God they don't vote" figure of speech
highlights a sensate point.

The sentiment expressed by that litote is that the purely emotional views
verbalized by the iOS apologists show their utter lack of adult
comprehensive skills when facts are involved.

When presented with facts, iOS apologists retreat to a make-believe world
of purely imaginary wholly fabricated iOS functionality that exists nowhere
except in their fantastic dreams.

Hence, it's downright scary not only that such people exist, but that they
may even vastly outnumber we far more sentient humans.

[Johan]

Op 22-okt.-17 om 17:15 schreef harry newton:

You fabricate imaginary apoligizes.
About your "facts": who cares?

[harry newton]

He who is Johan said on Sun, 22 Oct 2017 18:32:41 +0200:

> About your "facts": who cares?

Thank you for clearly reaffirming iOS apologists don't care for facts.

[Snit]

On 10/22/17, 9:47 AM, in article osii2l$5hv$1...@gioia.aioe.org, "harry newton"

Speaking of facts, just some lies from "harry newton":

harry newton:
-----
Apple, for the first time ever, made a smartphone camera that isn't
on the bottom of the top ten best current Android cameras out there!
-----

But by his own link (<https://www.dxomark.com/category/mobile-reviews>, and
on the date of at least one of his references to this link:
<https://goo.gl/oNyNDC>) and evidence, iPhones have repeatedly been in the
top 10... in fact on his own link 5 of the top 10 best camera phones were
different iPhones.

harry newton:
-----
Notice you don't call Snit out on his utter fabrications that
Android can't record audio ...
-----

Of note, Snit NEVER said, suggested, hinted, or implied that Android cannot
record audio.

harry newton:
-----
Notice how Snit keeps trolling that cut-and-paste claiming that
Android can't record audio with video (for heaven's sake)?
-----

Of note, Snit NEVER said, suggested, hinted, or implied that Android cannot
record audio with video.

harry newton:
-----
That's OK; but you argue that it does - and - worse - you can't find
a single functionality that iOS devices can do that Android devices
don't already do
-----

And yet harry has yet to show the FIRST feature that came to mind for me:

* Record screen AND voice AND device sounds without jail breaking.
Also record desktop screen and sound with the time coordinated.

To his credit, harry did show PART of this (the first line), but even then
he used a rooted Android device.

As you tell more lies, harry, I will feel free to add them to the list. You
are a grossly dishonest person.

[harry newton]

He who is Snit said on Sun, 22 Oct 2017 12:27:02 -0700:

> Apple, for the first time ever, made a smartphone camera that isn't
> on the bottom of the top ten best current Android cameras out there!

The iOS apologists don't like facts; but that doesn't make them not facts.

The iOS apologists are desperate to claim that Apple has, somehow
(magically perhaps?) an edge on camera output, when the facts show that's
just not the case (and never will be).

Here's a reference from May of this year, for example, showing the *best*
that Apple camera output could do was the bottom of the top ten.

At the bottom of the top ten historically is where Apple camera output
tends to be, simply because Apple can't compete with the numerous
manufacturers who have just as much hardware technology as does Apple,
which is just natural when it's one company pitted against everyone else.

See this historical reference which Snit can't possibly refute:
Is there is a *single* useful photographic functionality on Apple iOS
cameras that isn't already on Android?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/qcRetD6w1o4/6tBWXoxuBgAJ>

89
- Google Pixel
88
- HTC 10
- Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge
- Sony Xperia X Performance
87
- Huawei P10
- Moto Z Force Droid
- Samsung Galaxy S6 Edge Plus
- Sony Xperia XZ
- Sony Xperia Z5
86
- Apple iPhone 7
- LG G5
- Samsung Galaxy Note V
- Samsung Galaxy S6 Edge
85
- Huawei Mate 9
- LG V20
84
- Apple iPhone 6s Plus
- Apple iPhone 6s
- Google Nexus 6P
- Moto Z Droid
- Moto G Plus
- Moto Droid Turbo 2
83
- LG G4
- Moto X Style
- Samsung Galaxy Note 4
82
- Apple iPhone 6s
- Apple iPhone 6 Plus
- Apple iPhone 6
- BlackBerry Priv
- Sony Xperia Z3+
- TCL 950
81
- Nextbit Robin
80
- Huawei P9
79
- Samsung Galaxy S5
- Sony Xperia M5
- Sony Xperia Z3
- Sony Xperia Z2
- Xiaomi Mi 5
78
- Google Nexus 6
- HTC One A9
- Xiaomi Mi 5SPlus
77
- Nokia 808 Pureview
- Nubia Z11
76
- Apple iPhone 5S
- OnePlus 2
- Sony Xperia Z1
75
- Samsung Galaxy S4
74
- Huawei P8
- Meizu Pro 6
- Nokia Lumia 1020
73
- LG G2
- Nokia Lumia 925
- Qiku Q Terra
72
- Apple iPhone 5
- Apple iPhone 4S
- Samsung Note II
- Samsung Galaxy S3
70
- GoPro HERO3
69
- Amazon Firephone
- HTC ONE M9
68
- HTC ONE M8
67
- BlackBerry Z10
66
- HTC 8X
- Nokia Lumia 920
61
- Sony Xperia Z
59
- Apple New iPad
57
- Samsung Galaxy S2
50
- Apple iPhone 4

REFERENCE: https://www.dxomark.com/Mobiles

Now that the iPhone 8 is out, Apple, surprisingly, temporarily bounced up,
but Apple is, even now, not on top.

98
Google Pixel 2
97
Huawei Mate 10 Pro
94
Apple iPhone 8 Plus
94
Samsung Galaxy Note 8
92
Apple iPhone 8
90
Google Pixel
90
HTC U11
88
Apple iPhone 7 Plus
etc.

The facts is that, in general, history shows, Apple camera output is
"pretty good" in that it's in the bottom of the top five now, and in the
bottom of the top ten usually, which is pretty good overall.

The iOS apologists don't like facts; but that doesn't make facts not facts.

[Snit]

On 10/22/17, 2:52 PM, in article osj3ug$16r7$1...@gioia.aioe.org, "harry

newton" <ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

> He who is Snit said on Sun, 22 Oct 2017 12:27:02 -0700:
>
>> Apple, for the first time ever, made a smartphone camera that isn't
>> on the bottom of the top ten best current Android cameras out there!
>

> The iOS apologists don't like facts...

Here are some facts YOU do not like... so much you felt the need to lie, and
you snip and run every time YOU are quoted:

harry newton:
-----

Apple, for the first time ever, made a smartphone camera that isn't
on the bottom of the top ten best current Android cameras out there!

Face it, "harry", you have repeatedly been caught lying. And that is truly
just a drop in the bucket. You lie and lie and lie and lie.

So why not TRY to stop?

[dorayme]

In article <osgn82$1b7j$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,

harry newton <ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

> He who is dorayme said on Sun, 22 Oct 2017 10:34:24 +1100:
>
> > In your post a few minutes back, you said "...I have no
> > intention of replying further to either nospam or Snit until/unless
> > they actually provide factual technical on-topic value in this thread"
> >
> > Does this mean that they *have* provided factual technical on-topic
> > value in this thread"?
>
> Good point.
> They merely contorted the facts to make it look like I stated an untruth,

You said you would not further reply unless a certain condition was
met. You say the condition was not really met. Yet you replied?

--
dorayme

[Elden]

On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 17:49:49 +1100, dorayme <do_r...@bigpond.com>
wrote:

I have the same question. It makes a person's killfile pretty useless
unless we simply add the people that seem to feel it's necessary to
feed the trolls.

[dorayme]

In article <vv9quclf8t80ptu7b...@4ax.com>,

Elden <use...@moondog.org> wrote:

> On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 17:49:49 +1100, dorayme <do_r...@bigpond.com>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <D60FFE87.BB49A%use...@gallopinginsanity.com>,
> > Snit <use...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> >
> >> And not reading the rest. When your every sentence is just flat out
> >> trolling
> >> why would I?
> >

> >Wtf are you replying at all if you seriously think you are talking to

> >a troll? Nothing better to do?
>
> I have the same question. It makes a person's killfile pretty useless
> unless we simply add the people that seem to feel it's necessary to
> feed the trolls.

Not quite, you can kf those whom you suppose trolls, that reduces a
lot because the trolls tend to post repeatedly and more often (for
obvious reasons). And you can kf threads where it degenerates into
some sort of pissing competition.

--
dorayme

[Savageduck]

On Oct 22, 2017, dorayme wrote
(in article<do_ray_me-CCEC9...@46.sub-75-242-165.myvzw.com>):

Kill the thread.

--

Regards,
Savageduck

[harry newton]

He who is dorayme said on Mon, 23 Oct 2017 09:59:36 +1100:

> You said you would not further reply unless a certain condition was
> met. You say the condition was not really met. Yet you replied?

I'm sorry dorayme.

You completely missed the point - so I will need to be more blunt with you.
But we're wasting everyone's time with you not understanding the point.

I get *your* point, which is merely that I *posted*.
You have no other point because you missed completely *why* I posted.

The *why* is *different* than the posts I said I would not respond to.
Until you *get* that, you will miss the point because, like Snit, you are
only seeing the outside of the sphere where you miss and miss and miss my
explanation.

At least respond that you *understand* my explanation, to wit...

He added a contorted twist in that post which I had not expected him to.
So his post wasn't of the type I said I wouldn't respond to.

It's that simple (so please say you *understand*).
You don't have to agree. But you're just wasting everyone's time by showing
that you don't *understand* what I just said (and said before).

BTW, you don't have to understand words - nor believe mine - but I
apparently have to be extremely blunt even with you (which is sad) that his
post was different from the type I was talking about since it impugned my
actual facts with a clever distortion.

So I responded to his unexpected distortion of fact which, if left, the iOS
gullibles might actually believe (because it *was* clever).

So he forced me to respond when I didn't want to.
Just like I respond to you now where you force me to repeatedly explain to
you the same thing over and over and then again.

You're being like Snit now, where you latch onto the overall concept but
you miss the detail - which I just explained to you - hopefully - bluntly
enough but nicely enough that you'll finally understand the facts
correctly.

[harry newton]

He who is Savageduck said on Sun, 22 Oct 2017 17:23:48 -0700:

> Kill the thread.

Savageduck is actually *correct* on this suggestion.

Any thread that contains a fact about iOS that you don't like, just *kill*
the thread.

Then you, and Savageduck, can continue to *just guess* whenever you
actually try to *do something* using iOS.

Works for Savageduck.
Works for Elden.

Why can't it work for you?

[Frank Slootweg]

dorayme <do_r...@bigpond.com> wrote:
> In article <vv9quclf8t80ptu7b...@4ax.com>,
> Elden <use...@moondog.org> wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 21 Oct 2017 17:49:49 +1100, dorayme <do_r...@bigpond.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >In article <D60FFE87.BB49A%use...@gallopinginsanity.com>,
> > > Snit <use...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> And not reading the rest. When your every sentence is just flat
> > >> out trolling why would I?
> > >
> > >Wtf are you replying at all if you seriously think you are talking to
> > >a troll? Nothing better to do?
> >
> > I have the same question. It makes a person's killfile pretty useless
> > unless we simply add the people that seem to feel it's necessary to
> > feed the trolls.
>
> Not quite, you can kf those whom you suppose trolls, that reduces a
> lot because the trolls tend to post repeatedly and more often (for
> obvious reasons). And you can kf threads where it degenerates into
> some sort of pissing competition.

And some newsreaders have a 'Ignore thread started by bozo' feature,
which will automatically kill such threads, i.e. also future ones [1].

Dialog has this functionality and - AFAIK - slrn can do this with a
'script'.

[1] Which of course won't work for 'harry', unless he recycles one of
his many nyms.

[harry newton]

He who is Frank Slootweg said on 23 Oct 2017 14:43:25 GMT:

> Which of course won't work for 'harry', unless he recycles one of
> his many nyms.

Frank,
Unless you're an idiot, you can figure out my threads in the very first
post since I only speak facts, and I always post using the same style.

The reason for the nyms isn't to foil intelligent humans, which I have to
assume you are, but to avoid being caught up in header aggregators.

As for re-use of nyms, the entire process is automatic where I don't even
know what *any* of the headers say (sans the subject line) since they're
all pulled out of a dictionary lookup which destroys the old header
information.

That means I don't know the nntp posting host, the time zone, the usenet
reader, the mime encoding, the additional headers, the signature, etc.

So you probably know them better than I do what nyms are used over the past
two decades using this process since I only put the facts in the body and
subject line (which is all that matters for technical threads).

I only speak valid verified facts.
You like to bullshit.

For bullshitters, the headers are more meaningful (apparently).
For facts, all that matters is the subject and the body.

The fact you seem to deprecate factual threads is not my problem though,
it's yours. And the fact that dorayme has trolled her complaint merely
means that she has no more facts for this thread.

You shall note that I leave a thread when the facts are exhausted, which
has happened to this thread so it's time to leave.

Ciao.

[Johan]

Op 22-okt.-17 om 18:47 schreef harry newton:

> He who is Johan said on Sun, 22 Oct 2017 18:32:41 +0200:
>> About your "facts": who cares?
>
> Thank you for clearly reaffirming iOS apologists don't care for facts.

I feel very sorry for you, you must be a very lonely person. Your wife
left you, your children hate you, your boss fired you, no friends left.
All because your obsession. So you only have enough time to to find out
things that are completely irrelevant to 99% of the users.
My advise to you: Find a good psychiater and get rid of your
frustations, get back your life and try to be a little happy!
And the most important advice: leave newsgroups.

[Snit]

On 10/23/17, 6:39 AM, in article oskrer$1qv5$1...@gioia.aioe.org, "harry

Overall concept: you broke your word.
Detail: you blame me.

Conclusion: just another of your many, many lies... I have quoted several
repeatedly and you just snip and run. Then you claim to always tell the
truth... another of your lies.

[Snit]

On 10/23/17, 8:42 AM, in article osl2kf$9ap$1...@gioia.aioe.org, "harry newton"

Your name changing serves one purpose: to make it harder for people to KF
you so you can push your trolling.

[dorayme]

In article <oskrer$1qv5$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,

harry newton <ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

> He who is dorayme said on Mon, 23 Oct 2017 09:59:36 +1100:
>
> > You said you would not further reply unless a certain condition was
> > met. You say the condition was not really met. Yet you replied?
>
> I'm sorry dorayme.
>
> You completely missed the point - so I will need to be more blunt with you.
> But we're wasting everyone's time with you not understanding the point.
>
> I get *your* point, which is merely that I *posted*.

...

No, that was not my point. The point is that you posted after saying
you would not unless a condition was satisfied, a condition that was
not satisfied. I did not read the rest of your post after your blunder
here.

--
dorayme

[dorayme]

In article <oskrne$1rhg$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,

harry newton <ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

> He who is Savageduck said on Sun, 22 Oct 2017 17:23:48 -0700:
>
> > Kill the thread.
>
> Savageduck is actually *correct* on this suggestion.

You neglect to indicate who you are replying to. And then you
contradict yourself: if you think SD is correct, why are you not
following his advice?

--
dorayme

[dorayme]

In article <osl671...@ID-201911.user.individual.net>,
Frank Slootweg <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

> dorayme <do_r...@bigpond.com> wrote:
...

> > ... you can kf those whom you suppose trolls, that reduces a

> > lot because the trolls tend to post repeatedly and more often (for
> > obvious reasons). And you can kf threads where it degenerates into
> > some sort of pissing competition.
>
> And some newsreaders have a 'Ignore thread started by bozo' feature,
> which will automatically kill such threads, i.e. also future ones [1].
>
> Dialog has this functionality and - AFAIK - slrn can do this with a
> 'script'.
>
> [1] Which of course won't work for 'harry', unless he recycles one of
> his many nyms.

Life was not meant to be easy! <g>

--
dorayme

[dorayme]

In article <osl2kf$9ap$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,

harry newton <ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

> You shall note that I leave a thread when the facts are exhausted, which
> has happened to this thread so it's time to leave.

This again!

--
dorayme

[harry newton]

He who is Johan said on Mon, 23 Oct 2017 17:57:08 +0200:

> I feel very sorry for you, you must be a very lonely person.

Thank you for understanding that I am the rare intelligent person literally
drowning in a raging sea of ignorant posters like dorayme who can't
comprehend the simplest of facts.

[sms]

But why do you think that is your responsibility to educate people that
clearly don't care about any of this?

One of my favorite quotes is something that you should take to heart:
"It's best not to argue with people who are determined to lose. Once
you've told them about a superior alternative your responsibility is
fulfilled and you can allow them to lose in peace."

Mark Crispin, inventor of the IMAP protocol.

[Jolly Roger]

harry newton <ha...@is.invalid> wrote:
> He who is Johan said on Mon, 23 Oct 2017 17:57:08 +0200:
>
>> I feel very sorry for you, you must be a very lonely person.
>
> Thank you for understanding that I am the rare intelligent person literally
> drowning in a raging sea

Not intelligent enough to know what the word literally means, you dimwit
troll. The day you literally drown these news groups will instantly
improve.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[nospam]

In article <f5935c...@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger

<jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:

> >> I feel very sorry for you, you must be a very lonely person.
> >
> > Thank you for understanding that I am the rare intelligent person literally
> > drowning in a raging sea
>
> Not intelligent enough to know what the word literally means, you dimwit
> troll. The day you literally drown these news groups will instantly
> improve.

one of the california wildfires was near where he lives.

[harry newton]

He who is sms said on Tue, 24 Oct 2017 08:03:54 -0700:

> But why do you think that is your responsibility to educate people that
> clearly don't care about any of this?

SMS,
I'll respond to you and not to the dimwits like dorayme because you have
shown an ability to not only *comprehend* statements, but also to provide
value in your response.

> One of my favorite quotes is something that you should take to heart:
> "It's best not to argue with people who are determined to lose. Once
> you've told them about a superior alternative your responsibility is
> fulfilled and you can allow them to lose in peace."
> Mark Crispin, inventor of the IMAP protocol.

SMS,
You have to understand the strategic intent of stating and then proving
facts to the newsgroups, which include linux, android, windows, iOS, etc.

You also have to understand that only on the iOS newsgroups are the
participants almost completely immune to facts.

The reason we can debate, but it has a lot to do with the fact that iOS
users don't realize the limitations of their own devices, simply because
they don't actually use their device the way, say, I do.

Since I have both devices, it takes only five minutes to run into the first
huge limitation, and then another five minutes to find the second, and then
another five minutes to realize the third, etc.

But most iOS users *never* realize that the device is crippled in what it
can do, and that's fine. Those people don't argue. They accept the facts.

The only people who argue are the iOS apologists, who, in this thread are
clearly those who provided *zero* value (since they can't argue with fact).

You'll note that it's well known to be impossible to "discuss" anything
intelligent with the iOS apologists, since they're incapable of adult
*comprehension* of facts, so, I simply state the facts, and respond when
they make egregious claims that I think the iOS gullibles may fall for.

So what you see me do is document facts for the iOS gullibles and android
users alike. Facts will never work with the iOS apologists who comprise 99%
of the posts in any thread (since all they *can* do is troll).

In summary, it's strategic in intent, and tactical in method.

--
PS: Can you smell the Bear Fire on the other side of the fault line where
you are? It's very strong here on our side of the fault line.

[JF Mezei]

On 2017-10-24 09:09, harry newton wrote:

> Thank you for understanding that I am the rare intelligent person literally
> drowning in a raging sea of ignorant posters like dorayme who can't
> comprehend the simplest of facts.

Excuse me? I provided you with exact command to enter in the phone app
to enter field test mode to show tower ID and much more and you
responded with some insults.

So even when provided with factual information that one of your
assertions that the iPhone was incapable of doing X, you still won't
accept it.

[nospam]

In article <59ef7f86$0$27183$b1db1813$8141...@news.astraweb.com>, JF

Mezei <jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> On 2017-10-24 09:09, harry newton wrote:

...

> So even when provided with factual information that one of your
> assertions that the iPhone was incapable of doing X, you still won't
> accept it.

exactly, and not just in this instance either.

[Snit]

On 10/24/17, 9:10 AM, in article osnoma$10aq$1...@gioia.aioe.org, "harry

newton" <ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

>> One of my favorite quotes is something that you should take to heart:
>> "It's best not to argue with people who are determined to lose. Once
>> you've told them about a superior alternative your responsibility is
>> fulfilled and you can allow them to lose in peace."
>> Mark Crispin, inventor of the IMAP protocol.
>
> SMS,
> You have to understand the strategic intent of stating and then proving
> facts to the newsgroups, which include linux, android, windows, iOS, etc.
>
> You also have to understand that only on the iOS newsgroups are the
> participants almost completely immune to facts.
>
> The reason we can debate, but it has a lot to do with the fact that iOS
> users don't realize the limitations of their own devices, simply because
> they don't actually use their device the way, say, I do.
>
> Since I have both devices, it takes only five minutes to run into the first
> huge limitation, and then another five minutes to find the second, and then
> another five minutes to realize the third, etc.
>
> But most iOS users *never* realize that the device is crippled in what it
> can do, and that's fine. Those people don't argue. They accept the facts.

What limitations of Android devices do you accept?

I am going to be: none.

And if so, well, that is proof you are merely projecting.

[harry newton]

He who is Snit said on Tue, 24 Oct 2017 16:36:03 -0700:

> What limitations of Android devices do you accept?
>
> I am going to be: none.
>
> And if so, well, that is proof you are merely projecting.

I only speak facts.
Hence, all my facts are easily validated.

I realize facts are anathema to iOS apologists, but just *look* at this:
Google may regularly check installed apps for potentially harmful behavior
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/-lBhMX2CpCE/fh7ichbbBAAJ>

Notice something completely different about Android users from iOS users?
a. They're helpful (both in the pros and cons of the platform)
b. They know the answer to the questions asked
c. They're not constantly imagining functionality that doesn't exist

In essence, the Android users simply handle facts, which, by way of stark
contrast, the iOS apologists (like you, nospam, Jolly Roger, dorayme, etc.)
are utterly incapable of *comprehending*.

I think I know why iOS apologists are incapable of handling facts, but it's
the topic of past discussions, so we've already explained *why* this is the
case that only on the iOS newsgroups are all the conversations filled to
the brim with childish iOS apologies, brazen lies, and fantastic
make-believe functionality.

I only speak facts. All easily verified.

BTW, can't you run a simple search of the Android newsgroups?
http://tinyurl.com/comp-mobile-android
Which finds, for example, this relatively common type of thread:
Substitute for Osmand/CoPilot?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/wzHFh4WT1sI/Ko_6XRlBBQAJ>

Please *look* at that thread, and *compare* how it went to *all* iOS
threads. Notice the difference? The only time the thread went to hell was
when "micky" got his panties twisted about iOS, when he was dead wrong (and
the thread proves it), because he, like all the iOS apologists, is
*emotionally* invovled with his choice of platoforms.

Everyone in that thread but the iOS apologists proved they could handle
facts.

Please *look* at that thread before responding, and dorayme, if you ever
respond ever again to any of *my* threads, you need to *look* at that
thread too, because you still don't know the difference between when you're
an utter dimwit and when you are actually non-emotional about facts.

Jolly Roger, and nospam are lost causes, so *nothing* will ever change them
from the emotional wrecks they are; but you, Snit, you have a slight chance
since you also post to Linux threads (although you generally get your head
handed to you, as does nospam because facts are anathema to both of you).

The problem is that iOS apologists are emotionally wedded to their
platform, so they are fundamentally incapable of handling simple facts.

Android users easily state what's good and bad about Android.
The conversations on the Android newsgroups are *nothing* like iOS ngs.

[Snit]

On 10/24/17, 9:15 PM, in article osp35m$146s$1...@gioia.aioe.org, "harry

newton" <ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

> He who is Snit said on Tue, 24 Oct 2017 16:36:03 -0700:
>
>> What limitations of Android devices do you accept?
>>
>> I am going to be: none.
>>
>> And if so, well, that is proof you are merely projecting.
>
> I only speak facts.

Just some lies from "harry newton":

he used a rooted Android device and showed no evidence it could be done on
non-rooted devices.

[harry newton]

He who is Snit said on Wed, 25 Oct 2017 08:11:55 -0700:

> Just some lies from "harry newton":

Are you just trolling again Snit?
You didn't even *read* the thread which answered your own question.

Google may regularly check installed apps for potentially harmful behavior
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/-lBhMX2CpCE/fh7ichbbBAAJ>

I realize you iOS apologists prefer to *just guess* because facts are
anathema to you.

And yet, the fact is you asked if I speak openly about Android, and I
showed you not only that I speak openly about Android, but that the Android
threads are *nothing* like iOS threads because iOS apologists don't infest
Android threads.

Android users can handle facts, good or bad, about the platform.
iOS apologists can't handle any fact that is negative about their platform.

The fact is that the Android thread I pointed you to is basically 3 posts
(with summary and thank you posts) ... which is how all Q&A threads should
be.
1. Ask the question
2. Get the answers (some right, and some wrong)
3. Summarize the results

You'll *never* see that kind of helpful Q&A thread on the iOS newsgroups!

It's only on iOS that the threads go into endless emotional oblivion (as
the post I'm responding to from you is doing), because iOS apologists are
*different* from normal people.

The proof is everywhere that you iOS apologists made a purely *emotional*
platform decision devoid of any concept of actual functionality (you just
make it all up) or price-to-performance ratios (nospam is notorious for
being reamed for always picking the *worst* possible) and certainly not
capable of doing the simplest of things (e.g., loading any launcher).

But you iOS apologists *just guess*; so you assumed I don't say what's bad
about the other platforms.

As always, since you *just guess*, you guessed wrong.

Here's yet another temporal example of a *normal* group of people (i.e.,
not iOS apologists), this time on the Windows newsgroup, and also covering
something that is "bad" about the operating system:
"Which Windows 10 switch *remembers* Run commands?"
Message-ID: <oslb9p$on4$1...@gioia.aioe.org>
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 18:10:01 +0000 (UTC)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10

There's no DejaGoogle archive for the Windows 10 newsgroup so I point here:
http://www.pcbanter.net/showthread.php?p=3732640

The point is clear that it's only on the iOS newsgroups that facts can't be
handled properly by the iOS gullibles like dorayme, where users *just
guess* about everything like Jolly Roger does, and where the platform
apologists just fabricate (as you, Snit, did with WiFi measurements)
functionality that they only *wish* existed.

You iOS apologists are *different* from normal people and you emotional
wrecks are the sole reason factual Q&A threads go on forever on the iOS
newsgroups.

[Snit]

On 10/25/17, 9:18 AM, in article osqdfv$198k$1...@gioia.aioe.org, "harry

newton" <ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

> He who is Snit said on Wed, 25 Oct 2017 08:11:55 -0700:
>
>> Just some lies from "harry newton":
>>

> Are you just trolling again Snit?

You claimed to only speak the truth... so I corrected the record and quoted
just SOME of your many, many lies.

> You didn't even *read* the thread

If you want to say you told other lies in this thread not included in that
list I will listen... other than that not relevant to my point.

You claimed to ONLY tell the truth. That is another of your lies.

...

[harry newton]

He who is Snit said on Wed, 25 Oct 2017 10:13:14 -0700:

> You claimed to ONLY tell the truth. That is another of your lies.

You asked the question of whether I say the truth about Android, and the
answer, as I proved, was yes, of course. It's just facts.

The only reason you *think* what you think is that iOS apologists are
emotionally wedded to their platform such that they can't stand the truth
about "your girl".

The single reason for your *endless debates* is really that simple.

[Snit]

On 10/25/17, 10:38 AM, in article osqi6u$1iqm$1...@gioia.aioe.org, "harry

newton" <ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

> He who is Snit said on Wed, 25 Oct 2017 10:13:14 -0700:
>
>> You claimed to ONLY tell the truth. That is another of your lies.
>
> You asked the question of whether I say the truth about Android,

Incorrect. YOU claimed to only post facts. And you lied.

> and the
> answer, as I proved, was yes, of course. It's just facts.

Even that is false: you lie about Android, too.

> The only reason you *think* what you think is that iOS apologists are
> emotionally wedded to their platform such that they can't stand the truth
> about "your girl".

If you thought that was the case you would not snip the lies I quote from
you, you would explain why you thought I was wrong. Even you know you are
lying.

> The single reason for your *endless debates* is really that simple.

No debate here: I am merely noting some of your lies. I am not debating IF
they are lies -- they are.

[harry newton]

He who is Snit said on Wed, 25 Oct 2017 13:12:52 -0700:

>> You asked the question of whether I say the truth about Android,
>
> Incorrect. YOU claimed to only post facts. And you lied.

You asked if I tell the truth about *all* platforms, and I said yes.

I explained that only on the iOS newsgroups are they filled with people who
just can't handle the truth about their platform such that they feel they
must make up imaginary functionality to "bulk up" their choice of platform.

Here's more factual proof from this week, this time on the Windows 10
newsgroups, where we all work together to fix a flaw in Windows 10 in order
to edit the hosts file with the single command:
Start > Run > hosts

<http://www.pcbanter.net/showthread.php?t=1102077>

Notice how all the Windows people work together, even though we're working
around a flaw in the operating system?

It's nothing like that on the iOS newsgroups, which is filled with people
who aren't truthful to themselves as to why they own iOS devices.

The problem is that the iOS apologists are like someone with an admittedly
gorgeous and very shapely bombshell of a girlfriend who is as dumb as a
rock.

Whenever someone says *anything* about how *pretty* the girl is, they can
talk about that for hours, but the moment someone mentions the mental
deficienceies of the girlfriend, the iOS apologists go into high gear
*defending* what isn't defensible.

The iOS apologists just don't like facts that happen to be true.

In order to defend iOS from *anything* factual, they imagine functionality,
just as they would fabricate that their girlfriend is a scientific genius.

This has been the pattern for decades on *all* the Apple-related
newsgroups. The pattern is clear. The reason is clear.

The moment people like you, Snit, *stop* imagining functionality that
doesn't exist, then the threads will be productive, like all other
platforms.

[Snit]

On 10/26/17, 11:00 PM, in article osui28$5kh$1...@gioia.aioe.org, "harry

newton" <ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

> He who is Snit said on Wed, 25 Oct 2017 13:12:52 -0700:
>
>>> You asked the question of whether I say the truth about Android,
>>
>> Incorrect. YOU claimed to only post facts. And you lied.
>
> You asked if I tell the truth about *all* platforms, and I said yes.

First: merely responded to one of your non-stop lies about how you only post
facts... it was not you responding to me asking ANYTHING. So this is yet
another lie of yours (or at least deceptive).

But you will change the topic from your lies over and over and over. You
will snip and run and cry.

> I explained that only on the iOS newsgroups are they filled with people who
> just can't handle the truth

Such as yourself. OK.

> about their platform such that they feel they
> must make up imaginary functionality to "bulk up" their choice of platform.

As you do. Sure. You are talking about yourself. I get it.

> Here's more factual proof from this week

Not even reading further... you refuse to talk about your OWN lies and
acting as you describe and you want me to believe you on other claims and
follow long threads for your benefit. NOT going to happen.

Grow up and stop lying.

[harry newton]

He who is Snit said on Fri, 27 Oct 2017 09:43:54 -0700:

> Grow up and stop lying.

You don't see that *everything* you write fits my analysis of why any
discussion about facts on iOS goes on endlessly.

And yet, factual discussions on the other platform newsgroups proceed
normally, with the facts agreed and workarounds provided:

<http://www.pcbanter.net/showthread.php?t=1102077>

Notice how all the Windows people work together, even though we're working

around a flaw in the operating system - and yet - with iOS - you iOS
apologists merely make up imaginary functionality to hide the flaws.

Only the iOS gullibles are as dumb as you need them to be to believe your
make-believe functionality claims.

[Snit]

On 10/27/17, 9:58 AM, in article osvok5$fl1$1...@gioia.aioe.org, "harry newton"

<ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

> He who is Snit said on Fri, 27 Oct 2017 09:43:54 -0700:
>
>> Grow up and stop lying.
>
> You don't see that *everything* you write fits my analysis of why any
> discussion about facts on iOS goes on endlessly.

I see you snipping the quotes of your own lies and making accusations to try
to change the topic. Here are just SOME of your many, many lies:

> And yet, factual discussions on the other platform newsgroups proceed
> normally, with the facts agreed and workarounds provided:
> <http://www.pcbanter.net/showthread.php?t=1102077>

> Notice how all the Windows people work together, even though we're working
> around a flaw in the operating system - and yet - with iOS - you iOS
> apologists merely make up imaginary functionality to hide the flaws.

Another lie from you. Heck, read Cult of Mac... many discussions of problems
with iOS and macOS. You simply lie to push your preference for Android.

> Only the iOS gullibles are as dumb as you need them to be to believe your
> make-believe functionality claims.

And more lies from you. What was your last post where you did not lie?

[harry newton]

He who is Snit said on Fri, 27 Oct 2017 12:51:39 -0700:

> I see you snipping the quotes of your own lies and making accusations to try
> to change the topic. Here are just SOME of your many, many lies:

You lie so much about fictional iOS capabilities that you can't
*comprehend* a simple fact about anything.

Yet, nobody can be *that* dumb as what you write makes you appear to be.
Nobody.

So what is the problem with iOS apologists then?

I've been discussing with dorayme why this is the case with iOS apologists,
where her quip is that you iOS apologists are lashing out of pure emotion
because someone noticed that your choice in (admittedly stunning) blonde
bombshell girlfriend happens to be as incapable as a rock.

That might explain why you iOS apologists are just not normal.

BTW, if you want to see how *normal* people react to Q&A posts, *look* at
this thread, on the home-repair group, where the contrast is striking:
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.home.repair/i83K-K7hAsA/6bIsiZNuCAAJ>

HINT: That's how *normal* people respond to a Q&A thread in the real world.

[Snit]

On 10/28/17, 6:54 PM, in article ot3cbv$cuu$1...@gioia.aioe.org, "harry newton"

<ha...@is.invalid> wrote:

> He who is Snit said on Fri, 27 Oct 2017 12:51:39 -0700:
>
>> I see you snipping the quotes of your own lies and making accusations to try
>> to change the topic. Here are just SOME of your many, many lies:
>
> You lie so much about fictional iOS capabilities that you can't
> *comprehend* a simple fact about anything.

So why not quote these lies? Oh. You cannot. Meanwhile your lies are TRIVIAL
to quote. Here are some:

harry newton:
-----
Apple, for the first time ever, made a smartphone camera that isn't
on the bottom of the top ten best current Android cameras out there!
-----

Your own link proved you wrong.

harry newton:
-----
Notice you don't call Snit out on his utter fabrications that
Android can't record audio ...
-----

harry newton:
-----
Notice how Snit keeps trolling that cut-and-paste claiming that
Android can't record audio with video (for heaven's sake)?
-----

harry newton:
-----
That's OK; but you argue that it does - and - worse - you can't find
a single functionality that iOS devices can do that Android devices
don't already do
-----

harry newton:
-----
When Snit repeatedly "claims" Apple doesn't disable useful features
-----

I never said ANY of those things. You made it up. You lied. Period.

But in the end you have one and only one point: you prefer Android... and to
feel OK with that choice you need to not only put down iOS but users of iOS.

So you are deeply insecure about your choices -- so much you lash out with
insults, lies, attacks, and spend your time scavenging the web for iOS
weaknesses. Is there anything else you want to share?

...