CD release of 1959 STUDENT PRINCE

[Tony Partington]

Very interesting information at the end of this hyperlink...

 

http://www.sepiarecords.com/sepia1200.html

 

I don't know what to say at this point.

 

Ciao ~ Tony

[Tony Partington]

I do not know anything about Sepia Records; their overall quality, etc.  Also, I am intrigued to know what the source material is for this CD since I can only assume that the actual Living Stereo master tapes of the 1959 STUDENT PRINCE are in the possession of BMG.  I would have to assume then that Sepia's source is probably second generation and, good though it may be, it is still not the original master.

 

Interesting in all events.  I am very anxious to here thoughts from "the gang."

 

Ciao ~ Tony

[Derek McGovern]

Hi Tony: Thanks for the info.

I'm very dubious about this CD, since it's obviously a bootleg. Anyone in the UK can legally release CDs of recordings that are fifty-plus years old, but the source in this instance would have to be the 1959 LP, as you pointed out. The people involved here may have improved the sound somewhat through equalization, but the real problem on a couple of the tracks ("Serenade" and "I'll Walk With God") is the appalling echo chamber that intrudes halfway both songs. To remove that echo, one would need to have access to the master tapes---and clearly a bunch of bootleggers aren't going to have that privilege.

It's possible to hear the 1959 "Serenade" and "I'll Walk With God" without the echo on one of the Damon Lanza Productions CDs. These recordings were taken from Lanza's own copies of the Student Prince sessions (before they were shipped to New York for the overlaying of Norma Giusti's and the chorus's contributions). It's clear from listening to them that the echo was added after the fact (thank you, RCA, for meddling!!). However, the sound quality on the Damon Lanza CD is not very good.

In any event, BMG Japan released the 1959 Student Prince album on CD back in the mid-1990s. I have the CD, and it's sonically an improvement on the original LP. In fact, on something like "Thoughts Will Come To Me," the sound is actually rather good.

Cheers
Derek

P.S. We have a thread devoted to the 1959 Student Prince album here.

[Derek McGovern]

Hi Tony

You may well be right that RCA thought it was "helping" Lanza by adding an echo effect---but the irony is that its engineers made him sound worse, not better. There's an immediate loss of warmth in Lanza's voice on both the "Serenade" and "I'll Walk With God" once the echo takes over. To illustrate my point, check out the differences between the attached MP3s of "Serenade." Both snippets start from "Soft in the trees sigh the echo of my longing" (a line that the engineers back in New York may have interpreted literally in the case of this song!). The "without echo" version comes from the demonstration disc that RCA Italiana gave Lanza after the sessions and the "with echo" version is the result of RCA New York's post-recording trickery.

Bearing in mind that the released version is taken from the pristine RCA Japan CD, while the original non-echo version is probably a second- or third-generation copy, which do you prefer: doctored or undoctored?

Cheers
Derek

P.S. Tony: if you're wondering why your previous message was sent to the moderation queue rather than appearing here automatically, it's because you sent it from a different user account than the one you signed up to this group with. In other words, Google Groups treated you as a non-member.

On Sun, Aug 5, 2012 at 4:51 AM, <scpa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Derek,  Thanks for your reply regarding this soon-to-be-released CD. Amen to the echo chamber effects! I don't know what RCA was thinking but it certainly was no improvement. I've often wondered if the engineers, or rather the producer of the album thought the echo effect might cover up a "not so fresh" and perhaps even not so good sounding Lanza. Your mention of the Japanese CD makes me wonder if the Sepia CD won't just be a re-release of that. I guess we'll see.
Ciao - Tony

[Derek McGovern]

A  P.P.S. to the above: If you're reading this on the forum, then clicking on "View" for the attached files above will only give you about ten seconds of each recording; you'll need to click on "download" to hear the much longer extracts.

[jorain123]

What I've never understood is WHY release this version of Serenade at all!? You simply cannot beat the original SP album, albeit mono. It is just superb; Once you hear IT, you just dont want the "stereo" remake ( at least, I don't). Someone will have to explain this to me.

 

Joe

[Derek McGovern]

Hi Joe: If you click here, there's a discussion on the very question that you raised.

 

Cheers

Derek 

[Michael McAdam]

Derek: good sound bytes you used here. Provided excellent A/B comparison.

The RCA-added echo (too bloody popular in early 60's but only for a short while, praise the lord) definitely detracted from the voice in this BMG Japan snippet.

 

The demo version from Lanza's estate had a bit of echo as well but to use a more correct term, this sounded like the natural reverb from a larger, non-telephone booth-sized recording room. It sounded fine and....what a splendid operatic voice here. I like the way he covers on "love" in the line, "...oh LOVE me or I die!".

 

But, as Joe opined, why try to improve on the great 1954 LP? "If it ain't broke......" ?

 

Mike

[Derek McGovern]

Hi Mike: I was thinking the exact same thing while I was listening to the "raw" 1959 "Serenade": what a great operatic voice. The B-flat at the end (which I didn't include in that snippet) is pretty impressive too.

If Lanza had sung the "Serenade" like this at the Royal Albert Hall, he would have had the audience stamping and cheering---despite the fact that his approach here is completely different from his classic MGM recording.

The idea of re-recording The Student Prince wouldn't have come from Lanza, but I'm sure he felt he was up to the challenge. Besides, what singer---especially one who was still in his vocal prime---would want to believe that he couldn't recreate the magic of something he'd recorded less than seven years earlier? Numerous operatic singers have returned to the scores of past glories in the recording studio---think of Callas and Di Stefano, for example, who both made stereo re-recordings of Tosca years after their classic 1953 collaboration. 

In Lanza's case, he may also have relished the challenge of recording a more faithful version of Romberg's score (and Donnelly's lyrics, which were often modified in the film version).

Cheers
Derek

[Derek McGovern]

Well, thanks to the kindness of a couple of non-members, I've had the opportunity to listen to snippets from the new Student Prince CD, and I must say that I'm impressed! While the sound on my official BMG CD is brighter and a tad more vibrant than on this UK unofficial CD, it's really the orchestra rather than Lanza that is the chief beneficiary on the former (the beautifully recorded "Thoughts Will Come to Me" aside). On this new CD, Mario's voice sounds warmer and (on "Golden Days" and "I'll Walk with God") less raspy than I've heard on any previous reproduction of the album. Distortion is minimal, and that wretched echo is less distracting than usual.

I'm definitely going to order this disc.

Cheers
Derek

[Michael McAdam]

A propos to the discussion here, perhaps some of the newer members would like to listen to my juxtaposition of the 1952 and 1959 Lanzas singing Summertime In Heidelberg in line-alternating fashion (Ann B. is unavoidably in the '52 version, albeit briefly?) :

 

http://www.4shared.com/mp3/N-FS9tW7/heidelberg_5259blend.html

 

While that youthful voice we hear in the film is lyrical and fabulous, just listen to that warm, rich timbre of the 1959 voice (his interpretation is a little freer in the later stereo outing also). Note that I turned  the last line into a '52, '59 duet.

I can't remember how long ago I did this and how many have already heard it? Those who have....pass 'go' and collect $200 ;-)

 

Mike

On Tuesday, August 7, 2012 11:19:51 AM UTC-3, Derek McGovern wrote:

 

Hi Mike: I was thinking the exact same thing while I was listening to the "raw" 1959 "Serenade": what a great operatic voice. The B-flat at the end (which I didn't include in that snippet) is pretty impressive too.

If Lanza had sung the "Serenade" like this at the Royal Albert Hall, he would have had the audience stamping and cheering---despite the fact that his approach here is completely different from his classic MGM recording.

Cheers
Derek

[Derek McGovern]

Well, I've listened to this new CD, and overall I'm impressed with the sound quality on the 1959 Student Prince selections. 

Remastering from a combination of tape and LP sources (but not RCA's master tapes), this British label (Sepia) has managed to remove a lot of the harshness that marred RCA's own LP. The result is that Mario's voice sounds warmer and (in places) less distorted. More Lanza-like, in other words. "I'll Walk With God," for example, is definitely better than the LP reproduction---and also the official RCA Japan CD of the recording. As I mentioned in an earlier post, "Golden Days" is also an improvement on all other sources. While Mario is clearly not in his best voice on either of these recordings, what's more apparent than ever is that his singing of both songs is really quite good. There's an operatic grandeur to both of them that I find quite moving. (And even some of the notes are better than in 1952: "love" on days of youth and love" rings out splendidly on "Golden Days," while "pray"---I'll pray to him/each day to him"---is impressive on "I'll Walk With God.") So while neither rendition would ever displace the earlier versions, they're certainly not the "painful" efforts that some have painted them as. 

The one indisputable "A+" rendition on the album---"Thoughts Will Come to Me"---impressed me the most, soundwise, on this CD. Somehow it manages to be warmer and more vibrant than even the RCA Japan CD reproduction (which itself is very good). Having said that, I prefer the more ringing, focused sound of "Serenade," the Drinking Song, "Summertime in Heidelberg," and "Deep In My Heart, Dear" on the RCA Japan CD. In every instance, however, the Sepia CD is an improvement on the original RCA LP.

The bonus tracks---a bunch of Coke renditions ranging from the awful "Charmaine" to the very good "Where Or When"---are mellowly reproduced, but certainly don't reach the level of sound quality achieved on various BMG CDs. There's also the 1947 MGM audition of "Vesti la Giubba" with Mario's laugh oddly omitted. (This recording also runs slightly fast, especially towards the end.)

The liner notes, by University of Sheffield lecturer in musicology Dominic McHugh, are well written, and reasonably accurate, though I'd definitely dispute the claim that Lanza had "struggled to get a break" until being signed by MGM. Mind you, McHugh's focus here is Lanza's film career, and nowhere does he even acknowledge that Lanza sang performances of opera.

All in all, a worthwhile CD.

Cheers

Derek 

[Derek McGovern]

Has anybody else listened to this CD? I still feel that the best-reproduced selections on this non-official release are Golden Days, I'll Walk With God and Thoughts Will Come To Me, with the remaining tracks sounding better on the official BMG (Japan) CD.   

[Derek McGovern]

I should add to the above that for the very best reproduction of "Thoughts Will Come To Me," one still can't go past Mike's definitive Student Prince opus. (Can't wait for him to announce his next big project!)