Terry Arthur--
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I'm only an extension developer. I do it the way that I have two different (for every joomla release) packages for download. I dont't charge per joomla release. My business model is subscription based. I think most commercial extension developers do it that way.
However my question still remains unanswered and seems to have been overlooked in all replies as well.So let me rephrase it:"Will we always be faced with migrations and purchasing new extensions if we want to continue to use the latest and most secure version of Joomla!?
With the greatest respect, Please Don't Feed the Trolls.
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Nick, I agree. I think that WordPress and Joomla aren't even in the same market space. I think of them as being used for very different purposes. To me it's a little like apples and oranges.
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Hello All,Apologies in advance for the length of this post.I get much of my freelance work from sites like elance and odesk and I have noticed a marked increase in the projects to migrate away from Joomla!. I used to get one or two jobs a month moving static sites into Joomla! and now I get and am able to bid on almost none. I see more projects looking to migrate from Joomla! 1.5 to Wordpress than migrations from Joomla! 1.5 to Joomla! 2.5 and this worries me.Have we lost the momentum we had when Joomla! 1.5 was released? Can we regain it? Did the migrations fiasco hurt us more than we are willing to admit?I've seen lots of wonderful advances in Joomla! 2.5 but few of the clients I work with have any idea about them. Their main concern is that they just can't afford to keep having to pay for migrations and all new extensions.I hope our desire as programmers to use and provide the latest and greatest advances hasn't alienated the small business user that was in the past my bread and butter and I believe the core of our end users.Sadly, I'm forced to do more Wordpress work now since the Joomla! work seems to be drying up. I feel and have always felt that Joomla! represented a better solution for most of my small business clients but they don't agree with me any more.Right now, I'm not sure if the move to 3.0 or 3.5 will involve a migration. Obviously, it will involve buying all new extensions, which is great for those of us who sell extensions but is a deal breaker for most of my small business clients.So is there a point in the foreseeable future where we will have long term stability or will we always be faced with migrations and purchasing new extensions if we want to continue to use the latest and most secure version of Joomla!?Thanks for your feedback.
Terry Arthur--
When You update regularly your content, add new features to make your site lively, you generally need to upgrade as soon as possible.
It's even more true with support being already planned.
There was big problems on the migration between 2.5 and 3.x and my concern is that for me, it looks like it's because of the separation of CMS and framework. I mean how can they just create totally different classes replacing currently most used classes. Some stuff were depreciated in 2.5 (like database error handling) and the new way of doing it was broken.
In my humble opinion, separating cms and framework was one of the worst decision the joomla community took.
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Joomla has not had any growth in usuage in the last year, despite intensive developments. Drupal gained an additional 1 million websites and wordpress gained more than 2 million new websites. This confirms the sentiment from a lot of joomla developers that user preference atm goes to other platforms. (see links below for very accurate data)http://trends.builtwith.com/cms/WordPress
The platform and CMS separation was an excellent plan and allows joomla to be used for a whole range of applications. The main issue for both developers and end-users in my opinion is lack of backward compatibility and short support for updates.
Its important to fully understand why very few new joomla sites are created. As from a developers perspective it is great to see very fast progression of the joomla code an features. Is it bad marketing from our side, people being put off by the prospect of having to spend thousands every few years on updates or are people not looking for the features in joomla and are looking for other functionality?
I couldn't agree more Andrew. An official lite version of Joomla, that is extendable, would certainty be very appealing to a good number of users. Would it be realistic to consider building that using UCM? That could be a nice win-win to help push UCM adoption and usage. Just thinking out loud ;-)
Best,
Matt Thomas
Founder betweenbrain™
Lead Developer Construct Template Development Framework
Phone: 203.632.9322
Twitter: @betweenbrain
Github: https://github.com/betweenbrain
Composed and delivered courtesy of Nexus 7.
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I couldn't agree more Andrew. An official lite version of Joomla, that is extendable, would certainty be very appealing to a good number of users. Would it be realistic to consider building that using UCM? That could be a nice win-win to help push UCM adoption and usage. Just thinking out loud ;-)
>> Founder betweenbrain <http://betweenbrain.com/>�
>> Lead Developer Construct Template Development
>> Framework<http://construct-framework.com/>
>> Phone: 203.632.9322
>> Twitter: @betweenbrain
>> Github: https://github.com/betweenbrain
>> On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 8:53 AM, Miguel Tuyar�
>> <miguel...@gmail.com>wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> Among other reasons, this was the one that made us rethink Joomla and
create a fork called Jokte!
>>> Joomla is a great CMS, for me the best, but not good for Latin
America.
>>> The digital divide that we suffer, poor access to new technologies,
>>> the
>>> large amount of native peoples that have been forgotten for decades
and
>>> your languages, low economic resources available, etc., etc., have given
>>> rise to this empowerment, Jokte!
>>> The migrations involve high costs for collective groups, even for
small
>>> businesses, which eventually go to another CMS like Wordpress. In short,
>>> the Jokte fork tries rescue Joomla for Latin America, but following
another
>>> line of development more versatile, without radical changes or very
complex.
>>> I think developers should rethink the compatibility between versions,
otherwise the exodus is increasingly growing. I love Joomla, follow
him,
>>> but my focus today is about developing Jokte!
>>> Regards
>>> Miguel Tuyar�
>>> El martes, 6 de noviembre de 2012 14:20:55 UTC-3, Terry Arthur escribi�:
>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/joomla-dev-general?hl=en-GB.
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For anyone interested in a lite version of Joomla, I highly recommend that you take a look at Square One CMS. Essentially, Jeremy has already accomplished much of what has been described. Other than making some nice UI improvements, Jeremy removed all of the non-essential core extensions in such a way that they can be easily re-installed from a remote server. Unfortunately, he was not able to continue with the project, so the remote install may not work anymore, but the code is still available on Github and I'd venture to guess he'd be happy to share his build scripts with the project or anyone wishing to continue with it.
Best,
Matt
Sent from my phone that uses an open source operating system.
If there's interest, what's the next step? Propose one or more new working groups for some of these?
Thanks,
paul
The whole discussion started about users having to constantly upgrade and the costs for those upgrade services etc... having a new LITE version will complicate and increase the load even more.
Another option is to just consider a single core version of Joomla (forget "lite" and "heavy" altogether), and just have the CMS ask you what else would you like to install (presumably from a search list from the JED - imagine extension playlists, hehe - and then you can do magic like wiring that up to the VEL, etc, but I digress). Delegate com_banners, com_contacts, com_newfeeds, etc to the community. Maybe that's a better strategy than the project trying to manage distro's.
-----Original Message-----
From: joomla-de...@googlegroups.com [mailto:joomla-de...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Matt Thomas
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 10:28 AM
To: joomla-de...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [jgen] Re: Joomla! exodus?
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I don't like the idea of linking this to the JED at all.I think we should be keeping the CMS and JED seperate.
-----Original Message-----
From: joomla-de...@googlegroups.com [mailto:joomla-de...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rod Farrell
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 11:17 AM
To: joomla-de...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [jgen] Re: Joomla! exodus?
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Is it me or we are missing the main concern of the start of this post : migration ?
You got all cool ideas. I personally don't agree with all of those (I don't want UCM for example). But the main problem is that we have large migration every new major version and that most of the time it's because extensions are broken by these.
What most people ask for is backward compatibility to be sure that what we are doing can live longer than 2 years.
We have in my company, something like 50 internals major extensions. A broken back compatibility is 50 hours of work at least of fixing lot of stuff just because of backward compatibility.
50 hours means 2 week of work for a single person.
3.0 comes with even more frustrating change that means 50 hours of weird non-motivating job just because some thought that renaming was a good thing to do.
If you really want you user to stay, think about stability before trying to revolutionize joomla.
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You got all cool ideas. I personally don't agree with all of those (I don't want UCM for example).
* Back to the first subject upgrade: Andrew you said: " (3.0 was actually a place where much could be broken)"
On my opinion, it would have been better to start breaking things on 3.0 but keep"deprecated" functions and "deprecated" classes in a "legacy lib" and remove this only on 3.5 (the other LTS) as much as possible.
You said also about another subject but that can be applied here: "What I mean by that is you don't have to have 10 different free extensions doing the same thing on the JED"In third party extensions, you have a "class" that is in charge of checking the joomla version and redirect to the correct functions, this could be done only 1 time in a legacy plugin.
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I suspect its not the clients that are apparently confused
On 9 November 2012 05:07, brian teeman <joom...@googlemail.com> wrote:I suspect its not the clients that are apparently confusedWell I certainly am regarding that comment. Care to expand on what your point is?
Brian Teeman--
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I know that and I've done that.But this is my question. if they are Legacy then that means they've been marked for removal in fiture versions.
What are they being replaced with and is the code already available for use.