cucurbitaceae ID from Hooghly 11/11/12 sk2

[surajit koley]

Sir,

Found this wild climber (?) growing in wasteplace. I could not get nearer to it to ascertain how its leaves look.

Species : Momordica sp. ?

H & H : possibly climber, with big flower about the size of a bottle gourd or bigger than Luffa aegyptiaca Mill.; leaves maybe those in the bottom right of the last pic (set2_03. jpg)

Date : 7/11/12 & 8/11/12

Place : Hooghly

Perhaps this is wild KANKROL in Bengali, a bigger spiny fruit, sometimes cooked as vegetables by villagers. But, there is also a smaller spiny cultivated KAKROL that can be found in market/bazaar.

Thank you & Regards,

surajit

[jmgarg1]

Forwarding again for Id confirmation or otherwise please.

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J.M.Garg

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'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'
The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise): http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg. You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group: http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix (more than 2000 members & 1,37,000 messages on 31/10/12) or Efloraofindia website: https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/ (with a species database of more than 7500 species).

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'. 

[surajit koley]

Garg Sir,

This is KANKROL, wild type and the botanical name is Momordica cochinchinensis Spreng.

Thank you & Regards,

surajit

[Gurcharan Singh]

Surajit ji

Perhaps you will have to confirm whether it is M. cochinchinensis or M. aubangulata var. renigera, the latter is supposed to be common in East India. The two have similar looking flowers. Following should help. It would be good if you could upload a fruit of it.

M. cochinchinensis: Petiole with 2-5 glands; bract of male flower 3-5 cm long, 5-8 cm broad; fruit ovoid, 12-15 cm in diam, uniformly spiny.

M. subangulata var. renigera: Petiole without glands, bract of male flower 2-3 cm long, 2-4 cm broad; fruit ovoid, 5-7 cm long, 2.5-4 cm broad, narrowed at both ends, covered with longitudinal rows of flattened  tubercles or undulate ridges.

-- 

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

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[surajit koley]

Sir,

I do not have any fruits of this wild plant. The plant itself no more exists. It was growing by railway side and the place has been cleared long ago. I am attaching two more photos. I am not sure if these photos would be of any help, for i do not have any statistics on their size.

However, "Bengal Plants" has three species - M. charantia L., M. dioica Roxb. and M. cochinchinensis Spreng.

Besides the above mentioned three species Flora of British India has three more. Of the six species, according to Fl. Br. Ind. two are common throughout India and M. cochinchinensis is found in Bengal, along with some other provinces.

While searching both the species i found -

1. this very thread
2. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/indiantreepix/_qI82SdSpic/8BhnJV_Ld7kJ
   
3. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/indiantreepix/WqcNDkSD8W8/Yc5tibppIp0J
   
4. http://www.flowersofindia.net/catalog/slides/Chinese%20Cucumber.html
   
5. http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=120267&flora_id=2

Now, please compare with -

• http://www.springerimages.com/Images/RSS/1-10.1007_978-3-642-20450-0_10-0
  
• http://www.plantillustrations.org/species.php?id_species=677224
  

Thank you.

Regards,

surajit

[surajit koley]

Good morning

Some more pics, possibly from the same species.

Thank you,

Regard,

surajit

[Gurcharan Singh]

Petioles don't give any clue but acute to acuminate corolla tips suggest M. cochinchinensis. A side view of female flower or young fruit should help further

-- 

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

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[surajit koley]

Sir,

I couldn't find gland on the petiole. But i think three glands can be found on the leaf margin, as have been illustrated in FoC - http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=119709&flora_id=2.

Thank you

Regards

surajit

[Gurcharan Singh]

Yes Surajit ji

I missed them earlier. You are a real researches.

-- 

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[Gurcharan Singh]

I meant real researcher. I think M. cochinchinensis is supported by both glands and acute to acuminate corolla lobes, as well as dark spots at base.

-- 

Dr. Gurcharan Singh

Retired  Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297  Mob: 9810359089

http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ 
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ 

[surajit koley]

Thank you very much Sir, for confirming the ID. I also very much wish that oneday i could find a female plant and fruits.

Regards,

surajit

[Ushadi Micromini]

good show
ushadi

--
Usha di
===========

[surajit koley]

Thank you very much Usha Di. I am very happy to hear/read you after a long time.

The place where i found the plant for the first time was really got cleared. But then again it is growing. Or is it another? Then there must be a female plant nearby. The place is not  safe (ideal for snakes).

Regards,

surajit

[Gurcharan Singh]

Dear Surajit

Perhaps there is a dire need to get authentic specimens of both male and female flowers, leaves, young fruits and ripe fruits of M. dioica, M. cochinchinensis and M. subangulata (with two subspecies subangulata and renigera). all often given common name of teasel gourd (a name which actually belongs to Cucumis dipsaceus, which we recently resolved in a separate thread). I am surprised to note some very reputed websites labelling M, cochinchinensis as M. subangulata:

http://www.plantsystematics.org/imgs/dws/r/Cucurbitaceae_Momordica_subangulata_17585.html

http://www.plantsystematics.org/imgs/dws/r/Cucurbitaceae_Momordica_subangulata_17586.html

Where as the true M. subangulata can be seen here:

http://www.jircas.affrc.go.jp/project/value_addition/Vegetables/073.html

http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=119709&flora_id=2

http://www.downtoearth.org.in/content/bitter-gets-better

http://www.academicjournals.org/ajar/fulltext/2011/4July/Bharathi%20et%20al.htm

It looks M. subangulata is confused with both other species.

Perhaps all three may be found in your area to explore and investigate.

[surajit koley]

Sir,

Recently i also have developed some doubt over the id of my species, in this thread. Specially when i didn't find any gland on the petiole. Moreover, the leaves are entire.

All i could collect on the 11th May, on my second visit, gathering much courage, is two leaves, a bud, and a wilting flower. There was no fresh flower. Yesterday, i noticed several blooming flowers, but didn't dare to go nearer. This time also it is a male plant.

Yet, i think this species is M. cochinchinensis, for, 1) its long petiole, 11cm (against 3-8 cm in M. subangulata as per FoC) and 2) Flora of British India writes -

"Leaves 4-5 in. diam. ...... usually 3 lobed...... petiole 2-3 in., almost invariably glandular on its middle as well as apex...."

I am attaching three more pics, recorded on my 2nd and 3rd visit.

I will keep this issue in my mind and try to find more.

Regards,

surajit

[surajit koley]

Please note the latest development - https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/indiantreepix/bNPuXOsu1y4

[J.M. Garg]

Finally concluded as M. subangulata subsp. renigera as per discussions in another thread.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: surajit koley <surajitno...@gmail.com>
Date: 11 November 2012 07:56
Subject: [efloraofindia:137969] cucurbitaceae ID from Hooghly 11/11/12 sk2
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

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--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'
The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise): http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg. You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world): http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix (more than 2110 members & 1,56,000 messages on 31/5/13) or Efloraofindia website: https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/ (with a species database of more than 8500 species).

[surajit koley]

Yes, Garg Sir, as per discussion in https://groups.google.com/d/msg/indiantreepix/bNPuXOsu1y4/faDnRsfXHpcJ and 1) shape of lamina 2) absence of petiolar glands (as can be found in https://groups.google.com/d/msg/indiantreepix/lSutUfvKQ5I/yCA9HJQrYYkJ, this is M. subangulata subsp. renigera.

Thank you

Regards

surajit