sk2015sept08/08 - Commelina sp. on the bank of the pond

[surajit koley]

These photographs were recorded on 02-Sept-2015 and today. This species is thriving on the bank of ponds, village drainage, even on sides of railway tracks, possibly in damp soil.

Branching and rooting at nodes.

Flowers are the size of C. benghalensis as can be seen in the last pic (flowers in right is C. benghalensis) where two species growing side by side. Leaves are upto 7.5 cm long and 2 cm wide. Only a very few leaves are narrower than this. This species doesn't flower much, only a very few shoots bear flower.

Please help.

Thank you

Regards

[J.M. Garg]

Forwarding again for Id assistance please.

Some earlier relevant feedback:

Commelina species so far in efi

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'
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[Shobha Halwe-Chavda]

Dear Suajit ji,
Isn't it Commelina forsskalii    ?

Regards,

Shobha

[surajit koley]

Thank you very much Madam for the suggestion. But, I simply do not know how to identify a Commelina. The problem is BSI restricts the distribution of C. forsskalaei Vahl. in the Peninsular and NW India.

Regards

surajit

[Ponnutheerthagiri Santhan]

Commelina diffusa Burm.f.,

On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 1:17 PM, J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:

[surajit koley]

Many many thanks Santhan Ji. If BSI checklist didn't prevent me I would have very much identified it with the same taxon you have suggested.

There is very much confusion between C. diffusa Burm f. and C. caroliniana Walter (in US). C. caroliniana is conspecific with C. hasskarlii of India - http://www.jstor.org/stable/1220885?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents.

This species is C. hasskarlii C. B. Clarke.

Attached here relevant docs (downloaded from the net) for your perusal and further opinion.

Thank you

Regards

surajit koley

a non-botanist member of

efloraofIndia google group

[J.M. Garg]

Forwarding again for validation please.

Some earlier relevant feedback:

Isn't it Commelina forsskalii ? Regards, Shobha

Thank you very much Madam for the suggestion. But, I simply do not know how to identify a Commelina. The problem is BSI restricts the distribution of C. forsskalaei Vahl. in the Peninsular and NW India. Regards surajit

Commelina diffusa Burm.f.,- from Santhan ji.

Many many thanks Santhan Ji. If BSI checklist didn't prevent me I would have very much identified it with the same taxon you have suggested. There is very much confusion between C. diffusa Burm f. and C. caroliniana Walter (in US). C. caroliniana is conspecific with C. hasskarlii of India - http://www.jstor.org/stable/1220885?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents. This species is C. hasskarlii C. B. Clarke. Attached here relevant docs (downloaded from the net) for your perusal and further opinion. Thank you Regards surajit koley

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: surajit koley <surajitno...@gmail.com>
Date: 9 September 2015 at 00:04
Subject: [efloraofindia:231355] sk2015sept08/08 - Commelina sp. on the bank of the pond
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

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[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Manudev ji.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: manudev madhavan
Date: 28 September 2015 at 16:48
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:231355] sk2015sept08/08 - Commelina sp. on the bank of the pond
To: "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>

This species is very close to Commelina diffusa Burm f. 

I can rule out the possibility of Comelina caroliniana Walter (or Commelina hasskarli C.B.Clarke) because of two reasons

1. It is very clear that, this species has an upper cincinnus

2. Spathe is glabrous as opposed to serrulate to pubescent spathe.

Also, Comelina caroliniana Walter (Fl. Carol. 68. 1788) is the correct name since the name has priority over Commelina hasskarli C.B.Clarke (Commelyn. Cyrtandr. Bengal 13, t.3. 1874). A careful reading of the abstract of the paper would have helped 😊

NB: There is one more species of Commelina in this post.

Image number P1160722 has Commelina benghalensis (right side) in addition to the species in quiry.

--

Manudev K Madhavan

Assistant Professor,

Department of Botany, 

St. Joseph's College

Medical College P.O.

Kozhikode- 673 008

Mob: 9496470738

http://manudevkmadhavan.wix.com/manudev

[surajit koley]

Thanks to Manudev ji and Garg Sir.

BSI checklist for this region can be viewed at https://groups.google.com/d/msg/indiantreepix/rYFxY20DU3g/8-oX_700FwAJ.

As per per the checklist above C. diffusa Burm. f. not to be found in this region - http://efloraindia.nic.in/efloraindia/speciesDesc_PCL.action?species_id=2483.

Even if we assume that the BSI checklist is outdated, and C. diffusa later finds its way to south Bengal also, I doubt if such an introduced (in this region) species can be so pervasive. In fact this is the most common Commelina thriving everywhere in SINGUR, HARIPAL, DANKUNI, CHANDITALA blocks of Hooghly districts. Presently the species is not in flowering state. Only one or two can be seen in one or two population. All my previous uploads of this species in this group and in facebook group (4 years ago) had been identified as diffusa!

Now, something about Manudev Ji's points (ruling out caroliniana Walter) -

1. no where it was/is mentioned that caroliniana cannot have an upper cincinnus. Instead what author noted in his paper is "upper cyme usually vestigial (rarely well developed and 1-flowered)." The same has been copied in FoNA. Against this FBI, Bengal Plants, of-course outdated, noted "upper cymes 2-4 flowered.". The author's view in the paper (page 45) I referred can also be taken account in this regard.
2. no where I could find mention of spathe in caroliniana is serrulate!
3. spathe of caroliniana "margins distinct, usually cilliate, apex acuminate, glabrous or very sparsely pilose."

If, based on the above 3 points, we want to negate the probability of this species being hasskarlii (caroliniana) yet accepting the probability of diffusa as Manudev Ji has indicated we need to see/read the author's view in the paper I referred - "... Although a detailed comparision between C. caroliniana and C. diffusa and the variation exhibited by these species in the United States will be the subject of another paper, specimens of the two species can be separated by the following key :

• Spathes not all to slightly falcate; upper cyme usually vestigial (rarely.....).... capsules....   .... C. caroliniana
  
• Spathes usually distinctly falcate; upper cyme in larger spathes usually well developed and 1-several-flowered; capsules... C. diffusa

Interesting ..... until we examine a number of spathes and cymes at different locations of several populations!!!

(as for naming convention I followed BSI checklist which doesn't mention caroliniana)

(as for benghalensis I mentioned it in the initiating post itself !!!)

Thank you

Regards

(simply) surajit koley

! no "Sir", no "Dr.", no "Ji" !

[surajit koley]

Since we are discussing upper cyme, three more pics of this specimen of same population.

Thank you

Regards

(simply) surajit koley

! no "Sir", no "Dr.", no "Ji" !

[J.M. Garg]

Forwarding again for validation please.

Some earlier relevant feedback:

Isn't it Commelina forsskalii ? Regards, Shobha

Thank you very much Madam for the suggestion. But, I simply do not know how to identify a Commelina. The problem is BSI restricts the distribution of C. forsskalaei Vahl. in the Peninsular and NW India. Regards surajit

Commelina diffusa Burm.f.,- from Santhan ji.

Many many thanks Santhan Ji. If BSI checklist didn't prevent me I would have very much identified it with the same taxon you have suggested. There is very much confusion between C. diffusa Burm f. and C. caroliniana Walter (in US). C. caroliniana is conspecific with C. hasskarlii of India - http://www.jstor.org/stable/1220885?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents. This species is C. hasskarlii C. B. Clarke. Attached here relevant docs (downloaded from the net) for your perusal and further opinion. Thank you Regards surajit koley

This species is very close to Commelina diffusa Burm f.  I can rule out the possibility of Comelina caroliniana Walter (or Commelina hasskarli C.B.Clarke) because of two reasons 1. It is very clear that, this species has an upper cincinnus 2. Spathe is glabrous as opposed to serrulate to pubescent spathe. Also, Comelina caroliniana Walter (Fl. Carol. 68. 1788) is the correct name since the name has priority over Commelina hasskarli C.B.Clarke (Commelyn. Cyrtandr. Bengal 13, t.3. 1874). A careful reading of the abstract of the paper would have helped 😊 NB: There is one more species of Commelina in this post. Image number P1160722 has Commelina benghalensis (right side) in addition to the species in quiry.

-- Manudev K Madhavan

Thanks to Manudev ji ....

BSI checklist for this region can be viewed at https://groups.google.com/d/msg/indiantreepix/rYFxY20DU3g/8-oX_700FwAJ. As per per the checklist above C. diffusa Burm. f. not to be found in this region - http://efloraindia.nic.in/efloraindia/speciesDesc_PCL.action?species_id=2483. Even if we assume that the BSI checklist is outdated, and C. diffusa later finds its way to south Bengal also, I doubt if such an introduced (in this region) species can be so pervasive. In fact this is the most common Commelina thriving everywhere in SINGUR, HARIPAL, DANKUNI, CHANDITALA blocks of Hooghly districts. Presently the species is not in flowering state. Only one or two can be seen in one or two population. All my previous uploads of this species in this group and in facebook group (4 years ago) had been identified as diffusa! Now, something about Manudev Ji's points (ruling out caroliniana Walter) - no where it was/is mentioned that caroliniana cannot have an upper cincinnus. Instead what author noted in his paper is "upper cyme usually vestigial (rarely well developed and 1-flowered)." The same has been copied in FoNA. Against this FBI, Bengal Plants, of-course outdated, noted "upper cymes 2-4 flowered.". The author's view in the paper (page 45) I referred can also be taken account in this regard. no where I could find mention of spathe in caroliniana is serrulate! spathe of caroliniana "margins distinct, usually cilliate, apex acuminate, glabrous or very sparsely pilose." If, based on the above 3 points, we want to negate the probability of this species being hasskarlii (caroliniana) yet accepting the probability of diffusa as Manudev Ji has indicated we need to see/read the author's view in the paper I referred - "... Although a detailed comparision between C. caroliniana and C. diffusa and the variation exhibited by these species in the United States will be the subject of another paper, specimens of the two species can be separated by the following key : Spathes not all to slightly falcate; upper cyme usually vestigial (rarely.....).... capsules....   .... C. caroliniana Spathes usually distinctly falcate; upper cyme in larger spathes usually well developed and 1-several-flowered; capsules... C. diffusa Interesting ..... until we examine a number of spathes and cymes at different locations of several populations!!! (as for naming convention I followed BSI checklist which doesn't mention caroliniana) (as for benghalensis I mentioned it in the initiating post itself !!!)

Thank you Regards (simply) surajit koley

Since we are discussing upper cyme, three more pics of this specimen of same population.

Thank you Regards (simply) surajit koley

[surajit koley]

I fail to find any reason to rule out possibility of C. caroliniana Walter (C. hasskarlii C. B. Clarke).

Thank you

Regards

(simply) surajit koley

! no "Sir", no "Dr.", no "Ji" !

[Mayur Nandikar]

Few more days required to conclude its identity. For time being keep it in Commlelina diffusa. 

Mayur D. Nandikar,
Department of Botany, 

Goa University, 

Taleigao Plateau, 

Goa 403 206

+919421969757

[J.M. Garg]

Forwarding again for Id confirmation or otherwise please.

Earlier feedback:

Few more days required to conclude its identity. For time being keep it in Commlelina diffusa.  - from Mayur ji. 

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: surajit koley <surajitno...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Sept 2015 at 00:04
Subject: [efloraofindia:231355] sk2015sept08/08 - Commelina sp. on the bank of the pond
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

[J.M. Garg]

Forwarding again for Id assistance please.

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: surajit koley <surajitno...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Sept 2015 at 00:04
Subject: [efloraofindia:231355] sk2015sept08/08 - Commelina sp. on the bank of the pond
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

[surajit koley]

Well, Sir, unless Mayur ji (or some other member) determines the species let it remain as Commelina sp.

Thank you.

With regards,

Surajit Koley

[J.M. Garg]

Forwarding again for Id confirmation or otherwise please, as Commlelina diffusa

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: surajit koley <surajitno...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Sept 2015 at 00:04
Subject: [efloraofindia:231355] sk2015sept08/08 - Commelina sp. on the bank of the pond
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

[Gurcharan Singh]

Forwarding for ID

Distributed as Commelina caroliniana ?

Group discussion at

sk2015sept08/08 - Commelina sp. on the bank of the pond (google.com)

[Gurcharan Singh]

orwarding for ID

Distributed as Commelina caroliniana ?

Group discussion at

sk2015sept08/08 - Commelina sp. on the bank of the pond (google.com)

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: surajitno...@gmail.com <surajitno...@gmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2015 at 12:04:48 AM UTC+5:30
Subject: sk2015sept08/08 - Commelina sp. on the bank of the pond
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

[surajit koley]

Sir, thank you for taking care.

I think it is Commelina diffusa as Mayur ji and others suggested earlier. it's perhaps the commonest Commelina here, growing everywhere.

Regards,

Surajit