Why doesn't Apple just let you manage your iOS file system natively on Windows?

[Arlen Holder]

Here's my Android file system as seen by Windows which I manage from
Windows without adding *any* software whatsoever to Android or Windows.
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2102080android_trash01.jpg>

Why doesn't Apple just let you manage your iOS file system natively on
Windows?

[Bob_S]

"Arlen Holder" wrote in message news:pktapu$mo8$1...@news.mixmin.net...

You're asking the group to comment on why Apple wants to keep their users
trapped inside the Apple (prison) ecosystem? This is gonna be one long
thread....;-)

As you probably know, there are 3rd party iPad file managers but natively,
I'm only aware of iTunes and iCloud allowing access to contents of folders
from other systems as I recently learned - the hard way. There are
limitations on the file types but not being an Apple guru - I'll leave that
to others for commenting on. As for managing the Apple IOS file system from
Windows, nothing I've read allows the same management level you are used to
on a Windows system.

I needed a new tablet this past week so I bought the new 9.7 iPad with 128GB
storage. Gorgeous screen and it's fast. Great tablet - but I live in a
Windows world and after finding out the limitations and kludges I would have
to use to transfer files/folders between the systems, I gave up. Not worth
the effort. Got the new MS Surface Go (8GB 128GB) and upgraded it to Win10
Pro - problem solved. Be glad to answer any questions about it if others
are interested.

--


Bob S.

[nospam]

In article <pktfns$g76$1...@dont-email.me>, Bob_S <go...@phoenix.com> wrote:

> I needed a new tablet this past week so I bought the new 9.7 iPad with 128GB
> storage. Gorgeous screen and it's fast. Great tablet - but I live in a
> Windows world and after finding out the limitations and kludges I would have
> to use to transfer files/folders between the systems, I gave up. Not worth
> the effort.

it's very easy to move content to/from an ipad, regardless of operating
system.

the limitation is with you, not the device.

[Bob_S]

"nospam" wrote in message news:130820182250111184%nos...@nospam.invalid...

Great remark - now would you read the the OP's question which I addressed.
Manage being the operative word. You can copy certain file types natively
(iTunes, iCloud) which they specify. Managing the file system is a whole
other matter.

So genius - enlighten us by addressing the original question asked and not
what you think it said.

--


Bob S.

[nospam]

In article <pkti24$d2a$1...@dont-email.me>, Bob_S <go...@phoenix.com> wrote:

> >> I needed a new tablet this past week so I bought the new 9.7 iPad with
> >> 128GB
> >> storage. Gorgeous screen and it's fast. Great tablet - but I live in a
> >> Windows world and after finding out the limitations and kludges I would
> >> have
> >> to use to transfer files/folders between the systems, I gave up. Not
> >> worth the effort.
> >
> >it's very easy to move content to/from an ipad, regardless of operating
> >system.
> >
> >the limitation is with you, not the device.
>
> Great remark - now would you read the the OP's question which I addressed.

actually, you didn't, and the original poster is a well known troll.

> Manage being the operative word. You can copy certain file types natively
> (iTunes, iCloud) which they specify. Managing the file system is a whole
> other matter.

that is of course, absolutely false.

you said you gave up. that means you chose not to learn something new.

that's *your* decision, not a limitation of the device.

as i said, it's very easy to move content to/from an ipad, regardless
of operating system. i do it daily between mac, windows, linux and
*bsd. itunes or the cloud is *not* required. it's simply an *option*
among many.

[Arlen Holder]

On 13 Aug 2018 19:45:14 GMT, Bob_S wrote:

> I needed a new tablet this past week so I bought the new 9.7 iPad with 128GB
> storage. Gorgeous screen and it's fast. Great tablet - but I live in a
> Windows world and after finding out the limitations and kludges I would have
> to use to transfer files/folders between the systems, I gave up.

While nospam calls everyone who speaks facts a troll, I back up what I say
with facts (nospam has zero credibility - he makes everything up).
Why do the iOS trolls like nospam always FABRICATE everything?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/GExRc1qrFGo/JBzdCKSSAwAJ>

The fact is I have bought plenty of iOS & Android devices over the years,
where it just astounds me how severely restricted the iOS operating system
is compared to Android. <https://u.cubeupload.com/WNbbxt.jpg>

Like you, I also have the $300 Costco 9.7-inch 2017 WiFi-only iPad with
128GB storage. <https://u.cubeupload.com/5IUrm6.jpg>

For Android, I can just connect to either Windows or Linux to access the
entire Android visible file system, *read & write*, all without a single
bit of additional software on either the mobile device or the desktop that
isn't part of the initial setup.

For iOS, I can do that on Linux with no problems whatsoever, for read and
write access sans a single bit of additional software:
<https://cubeupload.com/im/BOLdzU.jpg.

NOTE: Booting to Linux works *perfectly* to access three (3) file systems
simultaneously! (Yes, all three - with only two devices!)
a. Windows
b. Linux
c. Mobile device (either iOS or Android)

But, when booting to Windows, you only get a single read-only mount point:
<https://u.cubeupload.com/jIUogJ.jpg>

With Android - you get power; with iOS - you get restrictions.

Most iOS users "just give up" when it comes to doing what we do all day
every day without even batting an eye on Android.

[nospam]

In article <pktm1i$88n$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen Holder

<arlen...@nospam.net> wrote:

> For iOS, I can do that on Linux with no problems whatsoever, for read and
> write access sans a single bit of additional software:

...

> But, when booting to Windows, you only get a single read-only mount point:

that would be a limitation of windows, and in this case, user error.

[Arlen Holder]

On 13 Aug 2018 21:52:49 GMT, nospam wrote:

>> But, when booting to Windows, you only get a single read-only mount point:
>
> that would be a limitation of windows, and in this case, user error.

It's extremely rare for you, nopsam, to ever guess correctly, but in this
case, you're actually closer to the truth than you can possibly imagine.

When dual booting to Linux, with both a typical unrooted iOS and Android
device connected by USB to the typical desktop, Linux has no problem seeing
the entire visible file system of all four devices (only 3 of which are
booted):
1. Linux entire visible file system (no limits)
2. Windows entire visible file system (no limits)
3. Android entire visible file system (only limited slightly)
4. iOS entire visible file system (which is severely limited even so)

When dual booted to Windows 10, under those same circumstances, Windows
sees far less.

Windows doesn't see the Linux file system.
And Windows sees even less of the highly restricted iOS file system.

As is always the case - anyone on iOS is extremely limited in what they can
do compared to what they can do on Android - since the entire visible file
system on Android is read/write available to both Linux and Windows.

The iOS file system is for people who clearly give up a lot to have it.

Not the least of what iOS users have to give up is their hard-earned money,
where it's been proven that a comparable hardware Android device like the
$130 8-core LG Stylo 3 Plus is FIVE TIMES LESS EXPENSIVE than a far-less
functional five-times-more expensive iOS device such as the overpriced
4-core Apple iPhone 7 Plus (actually only 3 cores which will be
automatically halved in speed in about 1 year).

In addition, as you're aware, it's been proven many times that the app
functionality alone on any modern Android device is so vastly
overwhelmingly more powerful than that of iOS that it's not funny.

*To own iOS, is to give up ... a lot.*

[Wolf K]

Typical utterly useless "You're wrong" post.

It's time you gave real world examples so that the poor sods who lack
your brilliance and knowledge can learn how to dfo it themselves.

> the limitation is with you, not the device.

Yech.



--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
Do you know what they call alternative medicine that’s been proven to
work? Medicine. (T. Minchin)

[Wolf K]

On 2018-08-14 00:32, Arlen Holder wrote:
[...]

> For Android, I can just connect to either Windows or Linux to access the

> entire Android visible file system,*read & write*, all without a single

> bit of additional software on either the mobile device or the desktop that
> isn't part of the initial setup.

[...]

Exactly.

Can be done with many digital cameras too, BTW. But be careful, try it
on a test card first.

[Arlen Holder]

On 14 Aug 2018 05:54:54 GMT, Wolf K wrote:

> Can be done with many digital cameras too, BTW. But be careful, try it
> on a test card first.

Just so Windows users are aware, and since I've done everything I've said
I've done, be advised that you need change one setting in the Android
device before you connect to Windows both read and write over USB.

****************************************************************************
Enabling specific developer options on Android 7.0 Nougat LG Stylo 3 Plus
****************************************************************************
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Make the "Developer options" menu visible (it's invisible by default):
Settings > General > About phone > Software info > Build number
Tap three times on "Build number" & it will then pop up the message...
"You are now 4 steps away from being a developer"
Tap 4 more times and it will say...
"You are now a developer."
This makes visible options such as the "Select USB Configuration"
which allows you to just plug your device into a Windows PC to slide
files back and forth across the visible file system.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. Enable Windows to access the entire visible Android file system.
Enable "Developer options" first as shown in #1 above, & then go to...
Settings > General > Developer options > (OK the warning) >
NETWORKING > Select USB Configuration
Change the options from:
Charging only (o) <== the default
MTP (Mediat Transfer Protocol) (_)
PTP (Picture Transfer Protocol) (_)
RNDIS (USB Ethernet) (_)
Audio Source (_)
MIDI (_)
Change the options to:
Charging only (_) <== the default
MTP (Media Transfer Protocol) (o)
PTP (Picture Transfer Protocol) (_)
RNDIS (USB Ethernet) (_)
Audio Source (_)
MIDI (_)

Charging = Just charge this phone
File transfer = Transfer documents & media files to the connected
device
Photo transfer = Transfer photos & videos to the connected device
MIDI device = Record and listen to music from the connected device
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Once you do that, when you plug in your device, the entire visible file
system is available to Windows, read/write.

Note: I say "visible" because if you're not rooted, it starts at the sdcard
level, but if you're rooted, it goes to the root (/) level.

If you want similar read/write access to the entire file system over WiFi,
you only need to add any free FTP server and then, on Windows, you just go
to the network neighborhood and enter in the URI, e.g.,
ftp://192.168.1.2:2121
This will ask for your login & password (if you've set one up in FTP) and
then you will see the entire visible file system, read/write (if you set
that up in FTP) to Windows, over the Wi-Fi LAN.

Obviously you don't get that kind of power on iOS ... only Android.

[NY]

"Arlen Holder" <arlen...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:pkukn0$mnp$1...@news.mixmin.net...

> If you want similar read/write access to the entire file system over WiFi,
> you only need to add any free FTP server and then, on Windows, you just go
> to the network neighborhood and enter in the URI, e.g.,
> ftp://192.168.1.2:2121
> This will ask for your login & password (if you've set one up in FTP) and
> then you will see the entire visible file system, read/write (if you set
> that up in FTP) to Windows, over the Wi-Fi LAN.

Does anyone know of Android software that makes a phone act as a true SMB
client or server, so

1) Android can access \\Windows-PC\share\folder\filename exactly as if it
were local card/phone storage - Android SMB client

2) a folder on Android can be shared so a Windows PC can access it as
\\Android\sharename\folder\filename - Android SMB server

I've come across apps like AndSMB which allow Android to see an SMB server
and allow you to navigate the shared tree structure, but then you must
transfer a *copy* of the file to local Android storage, modify it and then
transfer it back again - like using FTP, not with true file *access* where
(in Unix terms) you mount remote storage to look like an extension to local
storage, or (in Windows terms) the remote storage looks like an additional
drive letter, with files being read/written as if to local storage.

Is there some fundamental design problem with making this happen on Android.
I can imagine that an Android SMB server *might* need root access, but at
least I'd expect that making Android behave as a client ought to be
possible.


By the way, going back to the instructions you have for enabling Windows
access over USB to part of Android's filesystem, are there any equivalent
instructions for allowing Windows to access files on an iOS device (eg
iPad). My wife took loads of photos on her iPad and we can't find any way of
copying them onto a Windows device to archive them - apart from by attaching
photos to emails and sending them that way, which isn't practical for a
large number of photos.

Out of the box, an Android device connected by USB to Windows shows up the
card and internal storage, allowing you to navigate to DCIM and then select
and copy files (photos). The iPad shows up but no folders are displayed.
It's things like that which I *hate* about Apple - too bloody clever and
proprietary. There probably is a way, but it will be very obscure and
require you to do it "the Apple way", probably with special software
installed on Windows.

I tried using iTunes on Windows, with the iPad connected by USB, but the
device didn't show up in iTunes at all, in the way that an iPod would do. If
it had shown up, I think iTunes would allowed me manual control over which
files I copied.

[nospam]

In article <WfAcD.77873$oW2....@fx41.iad>, Wolf K

<wol...@sympatico.ca> wrote:

> >> I needed a new tablet this past week so I bought the new 9.7 iPad with
> >> 128GB
> >> storage. Gorgeous screen and it's fast. Great tablet - but I live in a
> >> Windows world and after finding out the limitations and kludges I would
> >> have
> >> to use to transfer files/folders between the systems, I gave up. Not worth
> >> the effort.
> >
> > it's very easy to move content to/from an ipad, regardless of operating
> > system.
>
> Typical utterly useless "You're wrong" post.
>
> It's time you gave real world examples so that the poor sods who lack
> your brilliance and knowledge can learn how to dfo it themselves.

that's been done numerous times, but trollboi doesn't care. he simply
denies everything and goes off on another ignorant rant.

> > the limitation is with you, not the device.
>
> Yech.

nothing yech about it. when someone claims something is impossible that
others do without issue every day, then the issue is with that someone.

one more time:

[Arlen Holder]

On 14 Aug 2018 06:41:08 GMT, NY wrote:

> By the way, going back to the instructions you have for enabling Windows
> access over USB to part of Android's filesystem, are there any equivalent
> instructions for allowing Windows to access files on an iOS device (eg
> iPad).

While it's not the method you expected, look at these three screenshots to
see how you can get far more power than you ask for, if you want.

This is a screenshot of iOS 11.2.6 connected to Linux over USB where you
will note that there is access to three parts of the iOS file system:
a. read-only access to the iOS DCIM folder
b. read/write access to "some" of the better apps (mostly not Apple)
c. a mount point on Linux of most of the above & more
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9181755linuxios_1.jpg>

Note that the third mount point provides read & write access to the iOS
DCIM directory - so you can copy & delete your data easily:
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9234281linuxios_2.jpg>

In the older Linux, you had to manually mount to get this feature, but in
the newer Linux, it's all now completely automatic and native:
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9819846linuxios_3.jpg>

Note those screenshots were with Ubuntu 17.10 where Ubuntu 18.04 makes it
even easier, completely native, and more powerful.

As you know, I currently own all the major consumer operating systems
(except Mac, which I've used and hated), where I always simply expect them
each individually and all combined to work well together, and where only
the iOS devices are so restrictive as to be relegated almost to the "toy"
category (due to iOS' extreme lack of basic functionality in the real
world).

Apple simply states that the real word is "not supported", nor ever tested.

Nonetheless, I've found, from experience, that the *best* way to access iOS
on Windows for both *read and write* is to dual boot to Linux,
paradoxically - where the beauty of Linux is that it allows *simultaneous*
read and write access to the entire Windows system (even though Windows
isn't even booted!) and iOS file system.

Notice, there are only 2 devices but this method gives *simultaneous* read
& write access to all 3 file systems!
1. Windows (most recently tested on Windows 10)
2. iOS (most recently tested on iOS 11.2.6)
3. Linux (most recently tested on Ubuntu 18.04)

There's an entire July 3rd, 2018 thread with the detail & screenshots.
How to read/write access iOS file systems on Ubuntu/Windows over USB cable
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/IFC52JXBQ1c/siiB7o49CgAJ>

> My wife took loads of photos on her iPad and we can't find any way of
> copying them onto a Windows device to archive them - apart from by attaching
> photos to emails and sending them that way, which isn't practical for a
> large number of photos.

You should *already* have all that - if that's all you really want.

If all you want is "read" only access of an iPad to Windows, and especially
if all you want is read-only access to the DCIM folder, that should be
trivial, even with iOS.

Just plugging in the iOS device to Windows should, at the very least, show
up insatntly like this - which I just did moments ago using my iPad for
you. <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=5944873storage00.jpg>

Maybe she installed the iTunes abomination by mistake?

> Out of the box, an Android device connected by USB to Windows shows up the
> card and internal storage, allowing you to navigate to DCIM and then select
> and copy files (photos). The iPad shows up but no folders are displayed.

I don't ever install the iTunes abomination so if that's installed, maybe
things work differently - but here's a sequence I've published in the past
which should work if all you want is "read only" USB access to the iOS DCIM
folder without installing *anything* on Windows.

When you plug in the iOS device into Windows' USB port, you get an "Allow
this device" query every time (you only get a query once with Linux, thank
God):
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9396078storage01.jpg>

Assuming you do not have the iTunes abomination installed in Windows, when
you plug in the iOS device the very first time, Windows will automatically
install the necessary drivers and then ask you to choose how you want the
iOS device "Internal Storage" to show up on Windows.
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=1075420storage02.jpg>

Windows will then show the iOS device in your native Windows file explorer
as just another disc drive, just like Android & USB drives show up.
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=1874111storage03.jpg>

You'll get a bar showing how much storage is available on that iOS device:
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9652440storage04.jpg>

And then you'll get read-only access to the DCIM directory:
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=5630845storage05.jpg>

Under that DCIM directory are the idiotically named iOS folders and files
and screenshots where you can copy them at will to your Windows disks.
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=6394866storage06.jpg>

In summary, as long as you do not have the iTunes abomination installed,
you should be able to have read-only access on Windows to all your iOS
camera pictures, videos, and screenshots simply by plugging the iOS device
into your Windows USB port.
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=8762004storage07.jpg>

> It's things like that which I *hate* about Apple - too bloody clever and
> proprietary. There probably is a way, but it will be very obscure and
> require you to do it "the Apple way", probably with special software
> installed on Windows.

I have used the iTunes abomination in the past where I learned long ago to
stay away from it like you would powdered cyanide. Since I gain all my
cross platform functionality using the *native* operrating system software,
I don't test with the iTunes abomination installed.

So your results may be different if you installed the iTunes abomination.

But, without the iTunes abomination, I have no problem with *read-only*
access to *just* the iOS DCIM folder on Windows 10 over USB.

> I tried using iTunes on Windows, with the iPad connected by USB, but the
> device didn't show up in iTunes at all, in the way that an iPod would do. If
> it had shown up, I think iTunes would allowed me manual control over which
> files I copied.

Yuck. I pity anyone who uses the iTunes abomination, where, many years ago
(when nospam was still insisting QuickTime was a necessary component, if
that gives you an idea of how long ago it was) I too tried the damn
abomination where it was so restrictive in use model that I concluded it
was an abomination - and I've been calling it that ever since.

When I switched to SharePod freeware (before they went to the dark side), I
was soooooooooo happy to be rid of the iTunes abomination that you can't
imagine my joy of being able to do anything I wanted again.

Back to your question, it's my humble opinion that your wife "should" be
able to do what you're asking - without installing *anything* overtly on
Windows (Windows will automatically install the necessary drivers).

[Arlen Holder]

On 14 Aug 2018 17:29:54 GMT, Arlen Holder wrote:

> When I switched to SharePod freeware (before they went to the dark side), I
> was soooooooooo happy to be rid of the iTunes abomination that you can't
> imagine my joy of being able to do anything I wanted again.

BTW, on avoiding the iTunes abomination even for iPods, if you can still
find the *older* 5MB versions of the sharepod freeware, save them forever!
(mine are all long ago saved *on* the iPods!)

I tested my old version of SharePod just last week when I plugged in a
friend's iPod and a few of mine where I was able to seamlessly slide any
MP3 file I wanted to across the handful of devices and Windows operating
system (and over the network if I wanted to).

All without any iTunes abomination "library" restrictions whatsoever.
It doesn't matter the id is of any of the iPods - they all work the same.

Absolutely nothing needs to be installed on Windows as the older SharePod
freeware is stored on the iPod (which basically acts as a USB disk).

The use model is so different from the Orwellian punishment meted out by
the iTunes abomination that you would be amazed that you have complete and
total freedom of your files on the iPods.

With absolutely nothing additional installed on Windows, you can plug in
any iPod and slide any MP3 file you want to any location you want any time
you want, sans restrictions.

NOTE: The version of SharePod freeware we used was version 2.x but you can
use up to version 3.9.6 based on our tests. (I read somewhere that Apple
paid the SharePod freeware developers a tremendous amount of money to
require iTunes in their post 3.9.6 product - which - if true - makes sense
to Apple because the SharePod developers had no need of the iTunes
abomination up until their version 4.x payware product came out - and that
made the payware product useless to me instantly ... however I haven't
looked that issue up in years (simply because the older SharePod works
fine)... so ... if anyone has more information on why SharePod added the
iTunes abomination as a requirement when SharePod worked just fine for many
years without the iTunes abomination - it would be interesting to hear what
actually happened).

[nospam]

In article <pkv5ij$fup$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen Holder

<arlen...@nospam.net> wrote:

> NOTE: The version of SharePod freeware we used was version 2.x but you can
> use up to version 3.9.6 based on our tests.

you mean *your* tests.

> (I read somewhere that Apple
> paid the SharePod freeware developers a tremendous amount of money to
> require iTunes in their post 3.9.6 product - which - if true -

it isn't true.

apple does not pay nor tell third party developers what to do.

[Arlen Holder]

On 14 Aug 2018 09:08:00 GMT, nospam wrote:

> that's been done numerous times, but trollboi doesn't care. he simply
> denies everything and goes off on another ignorant rant.

The Windows users will notice that, in every post by the Apple Apologist
nospam, he proves (once again, and for the umpteenth time), he exhibits one
or more of these traits common to all the Apple Apologists:

What are the common well-verified psychological traits of the Apple Apologists on this newsgroup?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/2BJ0i7LtngQ/xprHCzp4CAAJ>

Specifically, nospam's post above exhibits the highlighted trait below.

===========================================================================
. *He brazenly & repeatedly fabricates wholly imaginary app functionality*
. *He then exclaims that it's been told to us many times how to do it!*
...
. He almost never backs up statements with actual referenced facts
. He incessantly plays childish semantic games when faced with those facts
...
. He consistently fabricates quoted content that never happened
. He then wittily responds to that imaginary quoted content as if it did!
...
. He is never purposefully helpful by helping the OP answer the question
. He posts worthless retorts, all of which lack any added technical value
...
. He consistently blames Android for most of Apple's app & hardware faults
. He consistently finds the absolute worst price:performance comparisons
...
. He actually believes that a well-documented process is too complex!
. He literally believes elapsed time is proof of actual resolution time.
===========================================================================

[Bob_S]

You're the troll - asshole.

Always a snide remark and no substance - just like now.

[It's A Me]

On 2018-08-14 13:41:08 +0000, NY said:
<snip>

> I tried using iTunes on Windows, with the iPad connected by USB, but
> the device didn't show up in iTunes at all, in the way that an iPod
> would do. If it had shown up, I think iTunes would allowed me manual
> control over which files I copied.

Then something was wrong. *Some* of the possibile causes could include:

- too old version of iTunes for that iPad / iOS version
- broken USB cable
- one of the ports is broken (either on computer or on iPad)
- using a USB hub
- USB port not supplying enough power
- a screwed up iPad due to 'jailbreaking' it and mucking about with the OS

[nospam]

In article <pkvfnh$1n98$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, It's A Me

<its-...@mario.com> wrote:

> On 2018-08-14 13:41:08 +0000, NY said:
> > I tried using iTunes on Windows, with the iPad connected by USB, but
> > the device didn't show up in iTunes at all, in the way that an iPod
> > would do. If it had shown up, I think iTunes would allowed me manual
> > control over which files I copied.
>
> Then something was wrong.

yep, and instead of trying to resolve the problem, he'd rather blame
apple than admit he fucked up.

> *Some* of the possibile causes could include:
>
> - too old version of iTunes for that iPad / iOS version

that shouldn't matter.

an outdated version of itunes could cause issues when using itunes, but
using itunes is not required to copy photos (which it doesn't actually
do anyway).

all that's needed is to connect a usb cable and copy photos with
whatever photo software is normally used with other digital cameras.
very simple.

there are also several other ways to copy photos, without a usb cable.

> - broken USB cable
> - one of the ports is broken (either on computer or on iPad)

that's possible, however, that would likely cause issues with more than
just ios devices, including problems charging it.

> - using a USB hub
> - USB port not supplying enough power

that does not matter. a usb hub is not an issue and ios devices are not
bus-powered (they have an internal battery). worst case, it won't
recharge while connected, but content can still be copied.

however, if the usb hub is defective or non-compliant, then that could
be a problem, and not just with ios devices.

> - a screwed up iPad due to 'jailbreaking' it and mucking about with the OS

that's possible, however, it shouldn't affect copying photos unless
it's really mucked up.

[Frank Slootweg]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <WfAcD.77873$oW2....@fx41.iad>, Wolf K
> <wol...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> > >> I needed a new tablet this past week so I bought the new 9.7 iPad
> > >> with 128GB storage. Gorgeous screen and it's fast. Great tablet
> > >> - but I live in a Windows world and after finding out the
> > >> limitations and kludges I would have to use to transfer
> > >> files/folders between the systems, I gave up. Not worth the
> > >> effort.
> > >
> > > it's very easy to move content to/from an ipad, regardless of operating
> > > system.
> >
> > Typical utterly useless "You're wrong" post.
> >
> > It's time you gave real world examples so that the poor sods who lack
> > your brilliance and knowledge can learn how to dfo it themselves.
>
> that's been done numerous times,

But you can't/won't give a pointer! Why's that!?

> but trollboi doesn't care. he simply
> denies everything and goes off on another ignorant rant.

Never mind 'trollboi'! 'trollboi' isn't the only one asking. *Others*
like Bob-S and Wolf K are also asking. So backup your claims to *them*.
Or are you going to continue to be the endless weasel who claims all
sorts of things, but hardly ever delivers?

[This space is intentionally left blank for more of nospam's
footstamping.]

[nospam]

In article <pl18e3...@ID-201911.user.individual.net>, Frank Slootweg

<th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

> >
> > > >> I needed a new tablet this past week so I bought the new 9.7 iPad
> > > >> with 128GB storage. Gorgeous screen and it's fast. Great tablet
> > > >> - but I live in a Windows world and after finding out the
> > > >> limitations and kludges I would have to use to transfer
> > > >> files/folders between the systems, I gave up. Not worth the
> > > >> effort.
> > > >
> > > > it's very easy to move content to/from an ipad, regardless of operating
> > > > system.
> > >
> > > Typical utterly useless "You're wrong" post.
> > >
> > > It's time you gave real world examples so that the poor sods who lack
> > > your brilliance and knowledge can learn how to dfo it themselves.
> >
> > that's been done numerous times,
>
> But you can't/won't give a pointer! Why's that!?

i *have* given pointers. many, many times.

i've even explained it to *you* a while back, regarding smb apps. or
have you somehow forgotten that?

unlike android devices, smb on ios does *not* require root/jailbreak.
in other words, it's *easier* and more secure on ios than on android.

the claim that apple products can't interoperate with the real world is
utter bullshit. people who say that are not interested in discussing
anything. they just want to go on hating. explaining anything to them
is a waste of everyone's time. they insist it can't be done despite
repeated explanations exactly how.

the reality is that there are numerous methods for transferring content
in either direction using industry standard protocols, including via
ftp, sftp, ftps, http, afp, smb, webdav, amazon s3, dropbox & other
cloud services as well as many other options, no kludges necessary. it
might require downloading an app, but that's about it.

[Wolf K]

On 2018-08-15 09:30, nospam wrote:
> In article<pl18e3...@ID-201911.user.individual.net>, Frank Slootweg
> <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>>>> I needed a new tablet this past week so I bought the new 9.7 iPad
>>>>>> with 128GB storage. Gorgeous screen and it's fast. Great tablet
>>>>>> - but I live in a Windows world and after finding out the
>>>>>> limitations and kludges I would have to use to transfer
>>>>>> files/folders between the systems, I gave up. Not worth the
>>>>>> effort.
>>>>> it's very easy to move content to/from an ipad, regardless of operating
>>>>> system.
>>>> Typical utterly useless "You're wrong" post.
>>>>
>>>> It's time you gave real world examples so that the poor sods who lack
>>>> your brilliance and knowledge can learn how to dfo it themselves.
>>> that's been done numerous times,
>> But you can't/won't give a pointer! Why's that!?

> i*have* given pointers. many, many times.
>
> i've even explained it to*you* a while back, regarding smb apps. or

> have you somehow forgotten that?
>
> unlike android devices, smb on ios does*not* require root/jailbreak.

[...]

OK, so I can connect any iPad to my Windows PC's via USB ports, and I
will see the the iPad's files.

Right?

[nospam]

In article <K2WcD.170549$LE1.1...@fx35.iad>, Wolf K

<wol...@sympatico.ca> wrote:

> >>>>>> I needed a new tablet this past week so I bought the new 9.7 iPad
> >>>>>> with 128GB storage. Gorgeous screen and it's fast. Great tablet
> >>>>>> - but I live in a Windows world and after finding out the
> >>>>>> limitations and kludges I would have to use to transfer
> >>>>>> files/folders between the systems, I gave up. Not worth the
> >>>>>> effort.
> >>>>> it's very easy to move content to/from an ipad, regardless of operating
> >>>>> system.
> >>>> Typical utterly useless "You're wrong" post.
> >>>>
> >>>> It's time you gave real world examples so that the poor sods who lack
> >>>> your brilliance and knowledge can learn how to dfo it themselves.
> >>> that's been done numerous times,
> >> But you can't/won't give a pointer! Why's that!?
> > i*have* given pointers. many, many times.
> >
> > i've even explained it to*you* a while back, regarding smb apps. or
> > have you somehow forgotten that?
> >
> > unlike android devices, smb on ios does*not* require root/jailbreak.
> [...]
>
> OK, so I can connect any iPad to my Windows PC's via USB ports, and I
> will see the the iPad's files.
>
> Right?

as usual, you snipped the numerous options i gave. now do you see why i
am not particularly interested in explaining things further?

here it is again:

[Savageduck]

On Aug 15, 2018, Wolf K wrote
(in article <K2WcD.170549$LE1.1...@fx35.iad>):

An app such as iMazing can make “seeing" iPad/iPhone files a simple
exercise.

<https://imazing.com>

--

Regards,
Savageduck

[Wolf K]

On 2018-08-15 10:16, nospam wrote:
> In article <K2WcD.170549$LE1.1...@fx35.iad>, Wolf K
> <wol...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
[...]
>> OK, so I can connect any iPad to my Windows PC's via USB ports, and I
>> will see the the iPad's files.
>>
>> Right?
>
> as usual, you snipped the numerous options i gave. now do you see why i
> am not particularly interested in explaining things further?

I'm asking specifically about USB-to-USB port, just plug in the cable,
and go.

> here it is again:
>> the reality is that there are numerous methods for transferring content
>> in either direction using industry standard protocols, including via
>> ftp, sftp, ftps, http, afp, smb, webdav, amazon s3, dropbox & other
>> cloud services as well as many other options, no kludges necessary. it
>> might require downloading an app, but that's about it.

Sure, I know about all those web-based methods, which is why I snipped
that bit. They aren't the issue.

Once again: Can I just connect an iPad to my PC with a USB cable, see
the iPad as a storage device, and transfer files, both ways, no app
required? I can do that with most devices and cameras that I've tried.
The exceptions are generally older obsolete/obsolescent products.

[Frank Slootweg]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <pl18e3...@ID-201911.user.individual.net>, Frank Slootweg
> <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>
> > > > >> I needed a new tablet this past week so I bought the new 9.7 iPad
> > > > >> with 128GB storage. Gorgeous screen and it's fast. Great tablet
> > > > >> - but I live in a Windows world and after finding out the
> > > > >> limitations and kludges I would have to use to transfer
> > > > >> files/folders between the systems, I gave up. Not worth the
> > > > >> effort.
> > > > >
> > > > > it's very easy to move content to/from an ipad, regardless of
> > > > > operating system.
> > > >
> > > > Typical utterly useless "You're wrong" post.
> > > >
> > > > It's time you gave real world examples so that the poor sods who lack
> > > > your brilliance and knowledge can learn how to dfo it themselves.
> > >
> > > that's been done numerous times,
> >
> > But you can't/won't give a pointer! Why's that!?
>
> i *have* given pointers. many, many times.

So, once more, you're proving what you're snipping:

> > [This space is intentionally left blank for more of nospam's
> > footstamping.]

> i've even explained it to *you* a while back, regarding smb apps. or
> have you somehow forgotten that?

1) This isn't about me, but - as I stated in the part you SNIPPED -
about Bob-S and Wolf K, 2) This isn't about SMB. 3) Me being interested
in SMB on iOS, unlikely, so PROVE me wrong.

[Yet another slew of straw men / red herrings deleted.]

[RESTORE of yet more pathetically SNIPPED and DODGED/DIVERTED arguments:]

> > > but trollboi doesn't care. he simply
> > > denies everything and goes off on another ignorant rant.
> >
> > Never mind 'trollboi'! 'trollboi' isn't the only one asking. *Others*
> > like Bob-S and Wolf K are also asking. So backup your claims to *them*.
> > Or are you going to continue to be the endless weasel who claims all
> > sorts of things, but hardly ever delivers?

So are you going to backup your claims or can we expect more
weaseling, dodging, diverting, dishonest snipping of relevant material/
arguments, etc.?

[Frank Slootweg]

The answer is 'no', so stay tuned for yet another one of nospam's
dodge-and-divert attempts.

[Frank Slootweg]

In other words, the answer (to - amongst others - Wolf K question) is
'no'.

Why is it so hard for you to give that answer? Why all the dodging and
diverting? Why do you leave out the *relevant* "industry standard
protocol" and the *relevant* industry standard connection?

Current score: Others 4. nospam nil.

[nospam]

In article <S%WcD.81731$vh4....@fx37.iad>, Wolf K

<wol...@sympatico.ca> wrote:

> >> OK, so I can connect any iPad to my Windows PC's via USB ports, and I
> >> will see the the iPad's files.
> >>
> >> Right?
> >
> > as usual, you snipped the numerous options i gave. now do you see why i
> > am not particularly interested in explaining things further?
>
> I'm asking specifically about USB-to-USB port, just plug in the cable,
> and go.
>
> > here it is again:
> >> the reality is that there are numerous methods for transferring content
> >> in either direction using industry standard protocols, including via
> >> ftp, sftp, ftps, http, afp, smb, webdav, amazon s3, dropbox & other
> >> cloud services as well as many other options, no kludges necessary. it
> >> might require downloading an app, but that's about it.
>
> Sure, I know about all those web-based methods, which is why I snipped
> that bit. They aren't the issue.

apparently, you do not know about 'those web-based methods', given that
many of them predate the web, however, some may be accessible via the
web, for example, dropbox.

if by 'web-based' you mean cloud (i.e. you're using the wrong
terminology), then only dropbox and other cloud services would fall
into that category. ftp, sftp, ftps, http, afp, smb, webdav (despite
its name) do not.

and yes they *are* the issue, that being copying content to and from an
ipad (or iphone).

> Once again: Can I just connect an iPad to my PC with a USB cable, see
> the iPad as a storage device, and transfer files, both ways, no app
> required? I can do that with most devices and cameras that I've tried.
> The exceptions are generally older obsolete/obsolescent products.

the ipad is not 'a storage device'. it's a mobile computer.

try connecting two windows computers via usb and see how well that
works out for you.

also, 'no app required' is an artificial limitation *you* created.

everything requires an app. computers do not do very much without apps.

those who are actually interested in solutions will install the
necessary apps to do whatever it is they need to do in the event
they're not bundled with the computer.

it's clear you are not interested in solutions.

[nospam]

In article <pl1lue...@ID-201911.user.individual.net>, Frank Slootweg

<th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

> > i've even explained it to *you* a while back, regarding smb apps. or
> > have you somehow forgotten that?
>
> 1) This isn't about me, but - as I stated in the part you SNIPPED -
> about Bob-S and Wolf K, 2) This isn't about SMB. 3) Me being interested
> in SMB on iOS, unlikely, so PROVE me wrong.

it's about transferring files, and smb is one such method among many
others, which i listed already.

[Frank Slootweg]

It's about transferring [1] files via the given type of connection,
which has nothing to do with SMB. The "many others [methods], which i
listed already" also do not use/address the given type of connection.

So yet another FAIL.

And "Thou shalt not snip relevant material/arguments!":

[RESTORE of SNIPPED RESTORE:]

[NY]

"nospam" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:150820181128448374%nos...@nospam.invalid...

> In article <S%WcD.81731$vh4....@fx37.iad>, Wolf K
> <wol...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>> >> OK, so I can connect any iPad to my Windows PC's via USB ports, and I
>> >> will see the the iPad's files.
>> >>
>> >> Right?
>> >
>> > as usual, you snipped the numerous options i gave. now do you see why i
>> > am not particularly interested in explaining things further?
>>
>> I'm asking specifically about USB-to-USB port, just plug in the cable,
>> and go.
>>
>> > here it is again:
>> >> the reality is that there are numerous methods for transferring
>> >> content
>> >> in either direction using industry standard protocols, including via
>> >> ftp, sftp, ftps, http, afp, smb, webdav, amazon s3, dropbox & other
>> >> cloud services as well as many other options, no kludges necessary. it
>> >> might require downloading an app, but that's about it.
>>
>> Sure, I know about all those web-based methods, which is why I snipped
>> that bit. They aren't the issue.
>
> apparently, you do not know about 'those web-based methods', given that
> many of them predate the web, however, some may be accessible via the
> web, for example, dropbox.

No, Wolf has a very valid point. There may be very good reasons why it isn't
possible to connect the two devices by network (wifi) to be able to run
network protocols like ftp, SMB etc. One of them is lack of a wifi router if
you have your Apple device and Windows laptop away from home in the car etc.
No router means no network connection. Or you might have a router but no
internet connection, which rules out some things like dropbox but not other
like FTP and SMB. As a matter of interest, is a direct wifi client to wifi
client connection possible without a router?

But you have a USB cable with you. If the Apple device had been Android
instead, you'd have had innate, out of the box connectivity. With Apple it
seems (in my experience and Wolf's) you haven't. Is there an app that can be
installed on either Apple, Windows laptop or both that will give USB
connectivity so part of the Apple's storage appears as an extra Windows
drive? If there is, then it's a frustration that Apple haven't built tat
capability into the OS, but nothing that can't be solved by a bit of one-off
up-front preparation.

If you have network connectivity then a lot more is possible. I'm sure there
are SMB clients for Apple devices as there are for Android. Or you could
install an FTP server on Windows and an FTP client on Apple or Android. Or
there's cloud storage such as Dropbox. Less efficient because it's two
network transfers (Apple to Dropbox server, then Dropbox server to
Windows) - as far as I know Dropbox isn't clever enough to work out that
both devices are on the same LAN segment and route traffic directly without
going via the WAN - but then it's intended for client to server and the
replication to other clients, not for direct client-client like FTP is.
webdav, amazon s3, afp etc - not sure about those. FTP and SMB are probably
nice simple methods.

As an aside, it's a shame that so many device-to-device communications are
via a server somewhere else on the internet, when for the simplest case they
could be direct device-to-device without needing internet. I use Teamviewer
a lot to access my main "server" PC from my laptop upstairs or from my
phone, for things like setting a new TV programme to be recorded on the PC's
TV adaptor - ie where SMB file access isn't the solution. I have a painfully
slow internet connection (2 Mbps down, 0.2 Mbps up) and it's frustrating
that all Teamviewer's terminal emulation traffic has to go out onto the
internet from one device and then back down to the other, limited by that
dreaded 0.2 Mbps upload, instead of directly from phone to server within the
same LAN. The same applies to using Dropbox as a device-to-device transfer
method.

[Frank Slootweg]

He of course means network-based. Being someone who can't tell
"bitmap" apart from "BMP", you are in no position to intentionally
misinterpret other people's 'mis'wording.

> and yes they *are* the issue, that being copying content to and from an
> ipad (or iphone).
>
> > Once again: Can I just connect an iPad to my PC with a USB cable, see
> > the iPad as a storage device, and transfer files, both ways, no app
> > required? I can do that with most devices and cameras that I've tried.
> > The exceptions are generally older obsolete/obsolescent products.
>
> the ipad is not 'a storage device'. it's a mobile computer.

Which can NOT do what most other devices in it's class -
specifically Android devices - CAN do and DO do out of the box.

> try connecting two windows computers via usb and see how well that
> works out for you.

Well, BETTER than connecting an iOS device to a Windows computer via
USB.

> also, 'no app required' is an artificial limitation *you* created.

Earth to nospam: 1) Wolf K is asking a question. 2) For Android you do
not need an extra app, so when you blabber about Apple's alleged
zillions of capabilities - EXCEPT the one which is asked for/about -
it's only logical to assume that no extra app is needed.

But heh, just take as many apps as you need, just finally put your
money where you mouth is and post the details of a solution which solves
Wolf K's scenario.

> everything requires an app. computers do not do very much without apps.

An EXTRA app, braniac.

> those who are actually interested in solutions will install the
> necessary apps to do whatever it is they need to do in the event
> they're not bundled with the computer.

But you again/still FAIL to deliver the specific names/URLs of such
"necessary apps". Why? Because you can't. Prove us wrong by actually
delivering on your claim. Hint: More footstamping does not count.

> it's clear you are not interested in solutions.

It is clear that you cannot deliver on your claims and are just full
of it.

[Arlen Holder]

On 15 Aug 2018 04:05:19 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> Never mind 'trollboi'! 'trollboi' isn't the only one asking. *Others*
> like Bob-S and Wolf K are also asking. So backup your claims to *them*.
> Or are you going to continue to be the endless weasel who claims all
> sorts of things, but hardly ever delivers?
>
> [This space is intentionally left blank for more of nospam's
> footstamping.]

Hi Frank,

You and I go way back over the years - mostly contentiously - but on one
thing we agree is that nospam constantly fabricates imaginary functionality
and then brazenly insists he's told us about it many times and won't back
up anything he says because he says we won't listen to him.

My question is why.
Why are the Apple Apologists not normal people?

What on earth is the benefit of playing such childish make-believe games?
It's not something adults do.

Only the Apple Apologists do it all the freakin' time.

What on earth drives Apple Apologists to incessantly do such childish
things constantly and repeatedly with no end in sight?

HINT: Over the decades, *all* the never-ending threads on functionality are
(unilaterally) due to this phenomenon of Apple Apologists brazenly
fabricating wholly imaginary non-existent functionality - where technical
threads drag on forever simply because of the Apple Apologists' insistence
on a make-believe belief system.

What are common Apple Apologist psychological traits?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/18ARDsEOPzM/veU8FwAjBQAJ>

[Alan Baker]

What claim of functionality has been made that you now claim is
non-existent?

[nospam]

In article <8u6dne978oOs9-nG...@brightview.co.uk>, NY

<m...@privacy.net> wrote:

> >> >> OK, so I can connect any iPad to my Windows PC's via USB ports, and I
> >> >> will see the the iPad's files.
> >> >>
> >> >> Right?
> >> >
> >> > as usual, you snipped the numerous options i gave. now do you see why i
> >> > am not particularly interested in explaining things further?
> >>
> >> I'm asking specifically about USB-to-USB port, just plug in the cable,
> >> and go.
> >>
> >> > here it is again:
> >> >> the reality is that there are numerous methods for transferring
> >> >> content
> >> >> in either direction using industry standard protocols, including via
> >> >> ftp, sftp, ftps, http, afp, smb, webdav, amazon s3, dropbox & other
> >> >> cloud services as well as many other options, no kludges necessary. it
> >> >> might require downloading an app, but that's about it.
> >>
> >> Sure, I know about all those web-based methods, which is why I snipped
> >> that bit. They aren't the issue.
> >
> > apparently, you do not know about 'those web-based methods', given that
> > many of them predate the web, however, some may be accessible via the
> > web, for example, dropbox.
>
> No, Wolf has a very valid point.

no he doesn't. he doesn't even understand what web-based even means.

> There may be very good reasons why it isn't
> possible to connect the two devices by network (wifi) to be able to run
> network protocols like ftp, SMB etc. One of them is lack of a wifi router if
> you have your Apple device and Windows laptop away from home in the car etc.
> No router means no network connection. Or you might have a router but no
> internet connection, which rules out some things like dropbox but not other
> like FTP and SMB.

and in those situations, you wouldn't choose a protocol that requires
an internet connection. as you say, that rules out dropbox, but there
are many other options available.

ftp, smb, etc. can go direct between devices.

there are *many* solutions.

don't lock yourself into only one.

> As a matter of interest, is a direct wifi client to wifi
> client connection possible without a router?

absolutely. it's called wifi direct, or p2p wifi, which auto-configures
itself over bluetooth or nfc:
<https://www.wi-fi.org/discover-wi-fi/wi-fi-direct>

windows calls it near share:
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4091344/windows-10-share-thing
s-with-nearby-devices>
To use it, both PCs‹the one youąre sharing from and the one your
sharing to‹must have Bluetooth and must be running Windows 10
(version 1803).

apple calls it airdrop:
<https://support.apple.com/library/content/dam/edam/applecare/images/en_
US/iOS/ios11-iphone7-airdrop-accept-prompt.jpg>
<https://support.apple.com/library/content/dam/edam/applecare/images/en_
US/macos/highsierra/macos-high-sierra-macbook-airdrop-receive-photo.jpg>

> But you have a USB cable with you. If the Apple device had been Android
> instead, you'd have had innate, out of the box connectivity.

same for ios.

you said you wanted to transfer photos. connect the ipad via usb and
use whatever photo apps you normally use with other cameras. that can
even be set up to auto-copy when the ipad is connected.

you did say you had problems, but that's something you were doing, not
anything apple or microsoft did to prevent it.

in fact, microsoft even explains how:
<https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4027134/windows-10-import-phot
os-and-videos-from-phone-to-pc>
To transfer photos and videos from your phone to PC, connect your
phone to the PC with a USB cable. Make sure the phone is on and
unlocked, and that you're using a working cable...
...
On iPhones: Make sure your phone is unlocked, and when you see the
Trust this device notification, select Accept.

iphones and ipads will work in the same manner.

> With Apple it
> seems (in my experience and Wolf's) you haven't.

that's a lack of experience and refusal to resolve whatever issues came
up.

> Is there an app that can be
> installed on either Apple, Windows laptop or both that will give USB
> connectivity so part of the Apple's storage appears as an extra Windows
> drive?

not as an extra windows drive, since that makes no sense and it's also
a security hole. it's also the old primitive way of doing things.

that doesn't mean files can't be transferred over usb. they can, just
in a different manner, including automatically.

> If there is, then it's a frustration that Apple haven't built tat
> capability into the OS, but nothing that can't be solved by a bit of one-off
> up-front preparation.

apple can't include everything for every situation, nor can microsoft
or google. if a particular task requires an app, download it. no big
deal.

> If you have network connectivity then a lot more is possible. I'm sure there
> are SMB clients for Apple devices as there are for Android. Or you could
> install an FTP server on Windows and an FTP client on Apple or Android. Or
> there's cloud storage such as Dropbox. Less efficient because it's two
> network transfers (Apple to Dropbox server, then Dropbox server to
> Windows) - as far as I know Dropbox isn't clever enough to work out that
> both devices are on the same LAN segment and route traffic directly without
> going via the WAN

actually, dropbox does exactly that:

<https://www.dropbox.com/help/syncing-uploads/lan-sync-overview>
LAN sync is a Dropbox feature that speeds syncing dramatically when
the file exists on your Local Area Network (LAN).
...
...With LAN syncing, Dropbox will look for the new file on your Local
Area Network first, bypassing the need to download the file from
Dropbox servers, thus speeding up the syncing process considerably.

> - but then it's intended for client to server and the
> replication to other clients, not for direct client-client like FTP is.
> webdav, amazon s3, afp etc - not sure about those. FTP and SMB are probably
> nice simple methods.

they're all simple methods and in many cases, is just a tap to transfer
a file. smb1, however, is to be avoided.

on a synology nas, one click to enable/disable:
<https://eteknix-eteknixltd.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Sy
nology-DSM-6.1-SS-04-File-Services-1.jpg>
<https://synoguide.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/webdav-control-panel.jpg>

smb is native on macos and windows. afp is native to macos but exists
on other platforms. amazon s3 is specific to amazon, but it's a
protocol that has ios support.

> As an aside, it's a shame that so many device-to-device communications are
> via a server somewhere else on the internet, when for the simplest case they
> could be direct device-to-device without needing internet. I use Teamviewer
> a lot to access my main "server" PC from my laptop upstairs or from my
> phone, for things like setting a new TV programme to be recorded on the PC's
> TV adaptor - ie where SMB file access isn't the solution. I have a painfully
> slow internet connection (2 Mbps down, 0.2 Mbps up) and it's frustrating
> that all Teamviewer's terminal emulation traffic has to go out onto the
> internet from one device and then back down to the other, limited by that
> dreaded 0.2 Mbps upload, instead of directly from phone to server within the
> same LAN. The same applies to using Dropbox as a device-to-device transfer
> method.

use vnc or rdp directly to the device when on the same lan, which can
be done from a laptop as well as a phone or tablet.

teamviewer and its ilk are very convenient when *outside* the lan, as
it avoids having to configure the router to forward the necessary ports
when connecting from elsewhere, which is a security hole.

a good solution for outside access is to set up a vpn server and then
connect to it and access local devices.

[nospam]

In article <pl203f...@ID-201911.user.individual.net>, Frank Slootweg

<th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

> > > > i've even explained it to *you* a while back, regarding smb apps. or
> > > > have you somehow forgotten that?
> > >
> > > 1) This isn't about me, but - as I stated in the part you SNIPPED -
> > > about Bob-S and Wolf K, 2) This isn't about SMB. 3) Me being interested
> > > in SMB on iOS, unlikely, so PROVE me wrong.
> >
> > it's about transferring files, and smb is one such method among many
> > others, which i listed already.
>
> It's about transferring [1] files

yes it is, and as i have repeatedly said, it's *trivial* to do.

a couple of taps, or if the user prefers, entirely automated with no
user actions required to move content.

> via the given type of connection,

nope.

using usb is an artificial limitation you are imposing, and one which
won't work between two windows computers, something which you are
conveniently ignoring.

that said, connecting an ipad via usb *does* work for transferring
content to/from ios devices, namely for photos, using whatever apps one
normally uses for any other digital camera (including windows explorer,
which is a bad choice but some people use it for that anyway).

it's possible to transfer other types of files over usb, however, that
may require additional apps. no big deal, assuming the goal is to
actually move content rather than argue.

> which has nothing to do with SMB. The "many others [methods], which i
> listed already" also do not use/address the given type of connection.

the goal is to move content, not use any particular type of connection.

a file is not going to be any different if it's transferred via usb or
wifi or some other method.

what matters is getting the content from one device to another,
something that as i have repeatedly said, is trivial to do.

apple, microsoft, google, etc., aren't putting up any walls. the only
walls are the ones the user is creating.

> So yet another FAIL.

nope.

the only fail is you, who insists something can't be done yet is
trivial.

[nospam]

In article <pl21cl...@ID-201911.user.individual.net>, Frank Slootweg

<th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

> > > > here it is again:
> > > >> the reality is that there are numerous methods for transferring content
> > > >> in either direction using industry standard protocols, including via
> > > >> ftp, sftp, ftps, http, afp, smb, webdav, amazon s3, dropbox & other
> > > >> cloud services as well as many other options, no kludges necessary. it
> > > >> might require downloading an app, but that's about it.
> > >
> > > Sure, I know about all those web-based methods, which is why I snipped
> > > that bit. They aren't the issue.
> >
> > apparently, you do not know about 'those web-based methods', given that
> > many of them predate the web, however, some may be accessible via the
> > web, for example, dropbox.
> >
> > if by 'web-based' you mean cloud (i.e. you're using the wrong
> > terminology), then only dropbox and other cloud services would fall
> > into that category. ftp, sftp, ftps, http, afp, smb, webdav (despite
> > its name) do not.
>
> He of course means network-based.

network based isn't an obstacle whatsoever and is actually the most
convenient method (no need to fuss with cables), and given that he
doesn't understand the technology and the terms, he isn't in a position
to claim what can and cannot be done.

> Being someone who can't tell
> "bitmap" apart from "BMP",

i've *always* made that distinction.

it's mayayana who confuses the two.

> >
> > > Once again: Can I just connect an iPad to my PC with a USB cable, see
> > > the iPad as a storage device, and transfer files, both ways, no app
> > > required? I can do that with most devices and cameras that I've tried.
> > > The exceptions are generally older obsolete/obsolescent products.
> >
> > the ipad is not 'a storage device'. it's a mobile computer.
>
> Which can NOT do what most other devices in it's class -
> specifically Android devices - CAN do and DO do out of the box.

nonsense.

ios devices do some things android devices cannot and android devices
can do some things an ios device cannot.

no device does everything in every situation.

you are also missing the entire point, which is to move files.

nobody (but you) gives a shit whether a file is moved via usb or wifi
or some other method. what matters is getting it from one device to
another.

transferring wirelessly is *much* more convenient than dealing with usb
cables, particularly if the other computer is in the next room or on an
entirely different floor.

> > try connecting two windows computers via usb and see how well that
> > works out for you.
>
> Well, BETTER than connecting an iOS device to a Windows computer via
> USB.

nope. not better. it simply will not work.

rest of your ignorant babble snipped.

[Arlen Holder]

On 15 Aug 2018 11:37:09 GMT, Alan Baker wrote:

> What claim of functionality has been made that you now claim is
> non-existent?

I love a fact-based technical challenge since I only speak facts!

Let's start with this video, shall we?
<https://youtu.be/7QaABa6DFIo>

BTW, there are so many claims of imaginary functionality that I *know* you
didn't read *any* of the links you're responding to, because I already
provided much of what you ask.

But, this is Usenet, which is casual, so I can understand that you didn't
read the references I provided - and I'm perfectly happy to comply with
your request, since I only speak facts.

Facts are easily validated.
Facts are funny that way.

So, I will politely respond to you in a factual way by simply stating that
we can start with this *classic* claim by the Apple Apologists of brazenly
fabricated imaginary functionality where, paradoxically, the the Apple
Apologists *still* claim that this wholly imaginary functionality exists!
It's a fact iOS devices can't even graph Wi-Fi signal strength over time
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/PZuec56EWB0[1-25]>

Note that since I posit that *all* the never-ending threads on Apple
Apologists claims of imaginary functionality, it's important for adults to
realize that we documented that Snit made his claim of imaginary *over 400
times* in 400 separate posts - all of which were well after his claims were
debunked.

He literally cut and pasted his claim of imaginary functionality that many
times! (We counted them at the time, in fact.)

*Can you even imagine what I just said (which is a verified fact).*

Snit never once looked at the Y axis of the app he vehemently and
repeatedly claimed could do what clearly can't be done - while Lewis, Jolly
Roger, nospam, and others all chimed in similarly .... and yet ... their
claims of functionality are *all* patently false.

If you count the claims by Snit and the others, that's about 500 separate
posts (roughly) claiming a functionality that clearly does not exist.

That doesn't even count the facts presented in counter arguments that the
functionality doesn't exist, so, you can just about double those numbers
(roughly) to about 1,000 posts (roughly).

That's 1000 posts (roughly) where half prove the functionality doesn't
exist, while the other half claims that it does (and they *still* claim it
exists - nospam did so about a month ago, as I recall).

This fact is critical to realize since almost *all* the arguments on the
web of apple-versus-others are similarly infested!

The reason this *matters* greatly, is that this one imaginary claim alone
by the Apple Apologists proved that a simple fact that the Apple Apologists
don't like eventually generates (arguably) about 1,000 posts, where, in the
end, the *single original post* in that thread was 100% accurate then, as
it is now.

In summary, what appears to happen on Usenet over the decades is that a
single fact that doesn't fit into the Apple Apologists' belief system, can
generate as many as 1,000 posts, of which *every* claim by the Apple
Apologists is dead wrong.

When you're done with that canonical example, try this one next:
It's a fact current iOS devices can't report a correct cell tower ID
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/2F_24NrIU3Q/t7_jS4zyAgAJ>

[Alan Baker]

On 2018-08-15 12:33 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On 15 Aug 2018 11:37:09 GMT, Alan Baker wrote:
>
>> What claim of functionality has been made that you now claim is
>> non-existent?
>
> I love a fact-based technical challenge since I only speak facts!
>
> Let's start with this video, shall we?
> <https://youtu.be/7QaABa6DFIo>

Nope. Let's start with a claim IN THIS THREAD.

>
> BTW, there are so many claims of imaginary functionality that I *know* you
> didn't read *any* of the links you're responding to, because I already
> provided much of what you ask.

There were no links in the post to which I replied.

>
> But, this is Usenet, which is casual, so I can understand that you didn't
> read the references I provided - and I'm perfectly happy to comply with
> your request, since I only speak facts.

There were no references in the post to which I replied.

>
> Facts are easily validated.
> Facts are funny that way.

So start providing some facts:

What claim of functionality has been made that you now claim is
non-existent?

>

> So, I will politely respond to you in a factual way by simply stating that
> we can start with this *classic* claim by the Apple Apologists of brazenly
> fabricated imaginary functionality where, paradoxically, the the Apple
> Apologists *still* claim that this wholly imaginary functionality exists!
> It's a fact iOS devices can't even graph Wi-Fi signal strength over time
> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/PZuec56EWB0[1-25]>

That's not a quote. I don't read through

Sorry, but that isn't a claim in this thread.

And your link takes me to a post where you CLAIM people have claimed
this functionality, but which provides no actual quote and reference of
them having done so.

Now, back to the current case:

What claim of functionality has been made in this thread that you now
claim is non-existent?

Provide a QUOTE and a link to the post where the quoted text appears.

[nospam]

In article <pl1v6t$cjm$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen Holder

<arlen...@nospam.net> wrote:

> It's a fact current iOS devices can't report a correct cell tower ID

nonsense.

of course they can, as you've been repeatedly told and which you
repeatedly ignore.

<http://www.iphoneforums.net/attachments/a986329a-82a9-4abd-bfdf-514132f
522f6-png.37469/>
<http://www.iphoneforums.net/attachments/3472dd2a-ab33-4309-8719-5e9102c
7570c-png.37471/>
<http://www.iphoneforums.net/attachments/b2d960fc-d1f5-4be6-a3f6-e1fdbd3
de5ad-png.37472/>

also note the date, november 2017, which shatters your usual excuse
that it's 'an old version of ios and was removed'.

[Frank Slootweg]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <8u6dne978oOs9-nG...@brightview.co.uk>, NY
> <m...@privacy.net> wrote:

[...]

>
> > But you have a USB cable with you. If the Apple device had been Android
> > instead, you'd have had innate, out of the box connectivity.
>
> same for ios.
>
> you said you wanted to transfer photos.

He said no such thing!

> connect the ipad via usb and
> use whatever photo apps you normally use with other cameras. that can
> even be set up to auto-copy when the ipad is connected.
>
> you did say you had problems, but that's something you were doing, not
> anything apple or microsoft did to prevent it.

<barf!>

> in fact, microsoft even explains how:
> <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4027134/windows-10-import-phot
> os-and-videos-from-phone-to-pc>
> To transfer photos and videos from your phone to PC, connect your
> phone to the PC with a USB cable. Make sure the phone is on and
> unlocked, and that you're using a working cable...
> ...
> On iPhones: Make sure your phone is unlocked, and when you see the
> Trust this device notification, select Accept.
>
> iphones and ipads will work in the same manner.

It's a start, albeit a very tiny one. Now post a solution for ALL
types of files, not just photos and videos and for Windows, not just
Windows 10 (Yes, this is a Windows 10 newsgroup. No, nobody limited the
scenario to Windows 10 only.)

> > With Apple it
> > seems (in my experience and Wolf's) you haven't.
>
> that's a lack of experience and refusal to resolve whatever issues came
> up.

<barf!>

>
> > Is there an app that can be
> > installed on either Apple, Windows laptop or both that will give USB
> > connectivity so part of the Apple's storage appears as an extra Windows
> > drive?
>
> not as an extra windows drive, since that makes no sense and it's also
> a security hole. it's also the old primitive way of doing things.

1) *Why*, dear allmighty, does it make no sense? 2) Who cares that
"it's a security hole"? Who is going to 'break in' on this USB
connection. 3) "it's also the old primitive way of doing things" means
Apple can't do it. Thanks for the confirmation.

[Frank Slootweg]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <pl21cl...@ID-201911.user.individual.net>, Frank Slootweg
> <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

[Squirming deleted.]

> > > > Once again: Can I just connect an iPad to my PC with a USB cable, see
> > > > the iPad as a storage device, and transfer files, both ways, no app
> > > > required? I can do that with most devices and cameras that I've tried.
> > > > The exceptions are generally older obsolete/obsolescent products.
> > >
> > > the ipad is not 'a storage device'. it's a mobile computer.
> >
> > Which can NOT do what most other devices in it's class -
> > specifically Android devices - CAN do and DO do out of the box.
>
> nonsense.
>
> ios devices do some things android devices cannot and android devices
> can do some things an ios device cannot.
>
> no device does everything in every situation.

Translation: "iOS can indeed not do what the five (or more) of you ask
for!"

> you are also missing the entire point, which is to move files.

Dream on! *I* am not missing any point. BTW, the point is NOT just to
move files, but let's not quibble about that 'detail'.

> nobody (but you) gives a shit whether a file is moved via usb or wifi
> or some other method. what matters is getting it from one device to
> another.

Actually (at least) FIVE of us do give a shit. OTOH, YOU divert from
USB to Wi-Fi, because you can't deliver a working USB solution for the
stated scenario.

> transferring wirelessly is *much* more convenient than dealing with usb
> cables, particularly if the other computer is in the next room or on an
> entirely different floor.

Next time try CDs, your irrelevant records are all broken.

> > > try connecting two windows computers via usb and see how well that
> > > works out for you.
> >
> > Well, BETTER than connecting an iOS device to a Windows computer via
> > USB.
>
> nope. not better. it simply will not work.

Yes, it WILL work. That you don't know how, isn't anybodies problem
but yours.

> rest of your ignorant babble snipped.

The truth and facts DO hurt, don't they!?

[Rewind:/repeat:]

[NY]

"Frank Slootweg" <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote in message
news:pl2791...@ID-201911.user.individual.net...

>> in fact, microsoft even explains how:
>> <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4027134/windows-10-import-phot
>> os-and-videos-from-phone-to-pc>
>> To transfer photos and videos from your phone to PC, connect your
>> phone to the PC with a USB cable. Make sure the phone is on and
>> unlocked, and that you're using a working cable...
>> ...
>> On iPhones: Make sure your phone is unlocked, and when you see the
>> Trust this device notification, select Accept.
>>
>> iphones and ipads will work in the same manner.

Hmm. Why did I not experience this when I connected an iPad to a Windows PC
by USB? And yes, the cable worked OK to do the same process from an Android
phone.

Plugged phone in. Windows Explorer showed the iPad by its name, but with no
folders below there. The iPad was turned on and was displaying its normal
desktop of icons. There was no "trust this device" message to respond to. I
know that Android doesn't display folders below the device name if the
screen is turned off and you need to unlock it at the lock screen, but in
the case of the iPad, it *was* unlocked.


Subsequently I ran iTunes on the Windows PC and plugged in the iPad in the
hope that iTunes would recognise it as a device (eg for synchronising music
with) because I know this also displays the contents of the remote (iPad)
device. But I got a really "helpful" vague message "an error has occurred"
or something like that, which did not advance things at all.


The Windows Knowledge Base entry implies that it *will* work (subject to
needing the device unlocked) and doesn't even mention the need to change the
USB settings (or how to do so) in the case of Apple devices, and it says
something will happen (the Trust message) which doesn't. If a device doesn't
do what the instructions confidently say will happen, how do you proceed?

[Arlen Holder]

On 15 Aug 2018 12:39:54 GMT, Alan Baker wrote:

> Nope. Let's start with a claim IN THIS THREAD.

Hi Alan Baker,

Your entire response is *perfect* to prove my point that you Apple
Apologists are different from normal adults on Usenet.

I need to let the world know that you are a well-known classic Apple
Apologist (on the Mac side) who incessantly plays 5th-grade childish silly
semantic games - and - since I only speak facts - if you dispute that - I
welcome the invitation you prove for me to prove I've told you that plenty
of times before.

You think I forgot who you are?

You are a classic Apple Apologist, Alan Baker, - hence - all you *can* do -
is incessantly play your silly childish semantic games.

*The world will witness the silly semantic games you play below...*

> There were no links in the post to which I replied.

The mere fact you respond so quickly, coupled with the fact that the post
you responded to contains a link that links to more than a *dozen* factual
examples, again proves that you Apple Apologists have no need for facts.

The fact is that you didn't even *look* as the link in the post you
responded to, which contains *plenty* of links, as shown below:
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/Tufx3qIBZBw/ooCFANY5CAAJ>
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/Tufx3qIBZBw/7Qqc3f1dCAAJ>
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/Tufx3qIBZBw/SGhljjBYCAAJ>
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/Tufx3qIBZBw/VqzlcQ0hCAAJ>
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/Tufx3qIBZBw/C78-NjwnCAAJ>
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/Tufx3qIBZBw/Cf3bIIcQCAAJ>
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/Tufx3qIBZBw/1YHAnJEnCAAJ>
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/Tufx3qIBZBw/jsxtlTchCAAJ>
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/Tufx3qIBZBw/3naulH4cCAAJ>
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/Tufx3qIBZBw/yk6sP4I2CAAJ>
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/Tufx3qIBZBw/HZYE3iscCAAJ>
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/Tufx3qIBZBw/7rHAL_QXCAAJ>
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/Tufx3qIBZBw/u21p0MMaCAAJ>
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/Tufx3qIBZBw/z3kVVoc-CAAJ>
etc.

I'm not even going to *count* all those links that you didn't see, since
you said there were zero - where - as always - you Apple Apologists simply
play your silly childish 5th-grade semantic games.

> There were no references in the post to which I replied.

Again, the very words of the Apple Apologists themselves proves the
veracity of my statements that all they *can* do, is play their silly
childish 5th-grade semantic games.

Had they actually *read* the post their responding to and clicked on the
supplied reference, all the facts above would have been plain to them.

Why are the Apple Apologists all so childish?
I don't know why.

Based on the fact their childish behavior is repeated umpteen times over
the decades, I have often wondered what is so very different about Apple
Apple Apologists since they are clearly not interested in any fact that
doesn't fit into their imaginary belief system.
What are common well-verified psychological traits of Apple Apologists
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.ipad/2BJ0i7LtngQ>

> So start providing some facts:

You mean, in *addition* to the dozen or more facts provided in the links
you didn't even see?

And, in addition to the two additional links in the two threads I provided
in the very post you're responding to?
a. WiFi
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/2F_24NrIU3Q/t7_jS4zyAgAJ>
b. Cellular
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/2F_24NrIU3Q/t7_jS4zyAgAJ>

*What's interesting is how you Apple Apologists are immune to facts!*

Really?
You're really _that_ dumb?

Nobody is _that_ dumb - not even you Apple Apologists.
Apparently facts are just a childish silly *game* to you Apple Apologists.

In this one post, you deny *all* the facts, and yet, like all Apple
Apologists, you supply not only incorrect facts (e.g., that you saw zero
references when that is false), but you supply, in toto, ZERO facts.

> What claim of functionality has been made that you now claim is
> non-existent?

To the world at large ... if this statement alone doesn't prove my facts
100% correct that the Apple Apologists will deny anything - nothing else
will.

In the very post that Alan Baker (a well known Apple Apologist on the Mac
groups) are facts that have been validaed and proved with references
galore.

And yet, Alan Baker responded to this post in shorter time than it would
take to read those two referenced threads ... asking "what claims" are
made!
a. WiFi
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/2F_24NrIU3Q/t7_jS4zyAgAJ>
b. Cellular
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/2F_24NrIU3Q/t7_jS4zyAgAJ>

Can you believe how utterly fantastically _dumb_ these Apple Apologists
appear to be?

Actually, even they can't be this dumb ... so that's why I ask the question
of why the Apple Apologists are so incredibly _different_ from normal
adults.

Why do Apple Apologists immune to facts?
I don't know why.

I think it could be simply that Apple Apologists vehemently deny anything
and everything that doesn't fit neatly into their imaginary belief system.

For example.. they even deny what Apple already admitted for heaven's sake!
What is wrong with the Apple Apologists that they deny even what Apple admitted?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/fyL1cQUVCp0[51-75]>

> That's not a quote. I don't read through

More silly semantic games from the Apple Apologists, which seems to be a
skill they're extremely good at.

> Sorry, but that isn't a claim in this thread.

Notice that the Apple Apologists are not only vehemently allergic to facts,
but that they deny facts even when patently obvious.

The question isn't whether they do this incessantly. They do.
The question is why.

Why are Apple Apologists so very _different_ from normal adults?

For example:
Why do the Apple Apologists deny facts & habitually fabricate imaginary content?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/eRTC23FyVDY/fDk0k8KAAwAJ>

> And your link takes me to a post where you CLAIM people have claimed
> this functionality, but which provides no actual quote and reference of
> them having done so.

Hehhehheh... classic. Very classic. Intensely classic.

Play your silly semantic games Apple Apologists.

Play.

The facts were provided in those two threads.
Those facts are clear.

Nobody disputes the facts other than the Apple Apologists - who - it should
be noted - provide absolutely zero evidence of their claims of non-existent
functionality.

This is the classic scenario:
a. Fact is presented which doesn't fit the Apple Apologist belief system
b. Apple Apologists says the fact is wrong (providing zero evidence)
c. Evidence is provided proving the fact (facts are funny that way)
b. Apple Apologists says the fact is wrong (providing zero evidence)
e. More evidence is provided proving the facts (facts are easy to prove)
b. Apple Apologists says the fact is wrong (providing zero evidence)
(where this goes on forever)

Usually the Apple Apologist is able to divert the thread playing silly
semantic games and changing the goal posts, as the Apple Apologists
recently did here for example.
How does one upload voice memo recording to a web site directly from an iPhone?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/lXUWgJT-vWc[1-25]>

> Now, back to the current case:

Note that the most common "trick" of the Apple Apologists is to first deny
obvious facts (without even reading them, in fact) and then trying to
divert the conversation by incessantly playing their silly fifth-grade
semantic games.

> What claim of functionality has been made in this thread that you now
> claim is non-existent?

You're kidding right?
There were two clear cases of imaginary functionality claimed by the Apple
Apologists in the very post you're responding to ....
*and you missed that?*

How could you miss it?

HINT: The same way you missed the dozen threads referenced in the post that
you claimed had zero references - that's how you missed it.

The fact that you Apple Apologists are immune to facts is well known.

The only question is *why* are you Apple Apologists immune to facts?

> Provide a QUOTE and a link to the post where the quoted text appears.

To the world - do you see how Alan Baker's response clearly shows that the
Apple Apologists all exhibit one or more of the following traits in almost
every post where they refute facts that don't fit into their imaginary
belief system...
===========================================================================
. They brazenly & repeatedly fabricate wholly imaginary app functionality
. They then exclaim that it's been told to us many times how to do it!
...
. They almost never back up statements with actual referenced facts
. They incessantly play childish semantic games when faced with those facts
...
. They consistently fabricate quoted content that never happened
. They then wittily respond to that imaginary quoted content as if it did!
...
. They're never purposefully helpful by helping the OP answer the question
. They post worthless retorts, all of which lack any added technical value
...
. They consistently blame Android for most of Apple's app & hardware faults
. They consistently find the absolute worst price:performance comparisons
...
. They actually believe that a well-documented process is too complex!
. They literally believe elapsed time is proof of actual resolution time.
===========================================================================

[Alan Baker]

On 2018-08-15 1:24 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On 15 Aug 2018 12:39:54 GMT, Alan Baker wrote:
>
>> Nope. Let's start with a claim IN THIS THREAD.
>
> Hi Alan Baker,
>
> Your entire response is *perfect* to prove my point that you Apple
> Apologists are different from normal adults on Usenet.

This is an awful lot of verbiage, and frankly, I'm not interested in
your ranting.

Provide the quote and the reference, or we're done.

None of those links were in the post to which I initially replied.

There was NO LINK in the post to which I originally replied.

<rest of ranting snipped>

[Arlen Holder]

On 15 Aug 2018 12:48:01 GMT, nospam wrote:

> nonsense.
>
> of course they can, as you've been repeatedly told and which you
> repeatedly ignore.
>
> <http://www.iphoneforums.net/attachments/a986329a-82a9-4abd-bfdf-514132f
> 522f6-png.37469/>
> <http://www.iphoneforums.net/attachments/3472dd2a-ab33-4309-8719-5e9102c
> 7570c-png.37471/>
> <http://www.iphoneforums.net/attachments/b2d960fc-d1f5-4be6-a3f6-e1fdbd3
> de5ad-png.37472/>
>
> also note the date, november 2017, which shatters your usual excuse
> that it's 'an old version of ios and was removed'.

Another trait of the Apple Apologists is to claim a functionality simply by
showing a screenshot which doesn't actually show the claimed functionality.

They did it here too!
<https://youtu.be/7QaABa6DFIo>

They think everyone is as stupid as they need them to be to believe what we
all know already is that any app can look up (and essentially guess by
doing so) most likely cell tower IDs from a plethor of existing (some good,
some terrible) database on the net but that never was the question -
particularly because the question was always about femto towers (which I
own, and which is well known to nospam that I own them) which are not on
any public Internet look database.

Even if they were, the lookups are not the actual report of the actual
*accurate* femto cell tower id (which is what, of course, Android reports).

[Alan Baker]

On 2018-08-15 1:35 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On 15 Aug 2018 12:48:01 GMT, nospam wrote:
>
>> nonsense.
>>
>> of course they can, as you've been repeatedly told and which you
>> repeatedly ignore.
>>
>> <http://www.iphoneforums.net/attachments/a986329a-82a9-4abd-bfdf-514132f
>> 522f6-png.37469/>
>> <http://www.iphoneforums.net/attachments/3472dd2a-ab33-4309-8719-5e9102c
>> 7570c-png.37471/>
>> <http://www.iphoneforums.net/attachments/b2d960fc-d1f5-4be6-a3f6-e1fdbd3
>> de5ad-png.37472/>
>>
>> also note the date, november 2017, which shatters your usual excuse
>> that it's 'an old version of ios and was removed'.
>
> Another trait of the Apple Apologists is to claim a functionality simply by
> showing a screenshot which doesn't actually show the claimed functionality.

The first of those screenshots clearly shows the cell tower ID.

Perhaps that's why you snipped the fact that you claimed:

"It's a fact current iOS devices can't report a correct cell tower ID "

<rest of rant snipped>

[nospam]

In article <pl2352$u3u$1...@news.datemas.de>, Alan Baker <nu...@ness.biz>

wrote:

> >
> >> nonsense.
> >>
> >> of course they can, as you've been repeatedly told and which you
> >> repeatedly ignore.
> >>
> >> <http://www.iphoneforums.net/attachments/a986329a-82a9-4abd-bfdf-514132f
> >> 522f6-png.37469/>
> >> <http://www.iphoneforums.net/attachments/3472dd2a-ab33-4309-8719-5e9102c
> >> 7570c-png.37471/>
> >> <http://www.iphoneforums.net/attachments/b2d960fc-d1f5-4be6-a3f6-e1fdbd3
> >> de5ad-png.37472/>
> >>
> >> also note the date, november 2017, which shatters your usual excuse
> >> that it's 'an old version of ios and was removed'.
> >
> > Another trait of the Apple Apologists is to claim a functionality simply by
> > showing a screenshot which doesn't actually show the claimed functionality.
>
> The first of those screenshots clearly shows the cell tower ID.
>
> Perhaps that's why you snipped the fact that you claimed:
>
> "It's a fact current iOS devices can't report a correct cell tower ID "

yep, that's why he snipped it.

whenever he's shown to be wrong, he goes off on a rant.

[nospam]

In article <pl22qj$kt0$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen Holder

<arlen...@nospam.net> wrote:

>
> > nonsense.
> >
> > of course they can, as you've been repeatedly told and which you
> > repeatedly ignore.
> >
> > <http://www.iphoneforums.net/attachments/a986329a-82a9-4abd-bfdf-514132f
> > 522f6-png.37469/>
> > <http://www.iphoneforums.net/attachments/3472dd2a-ab33-4309-8719-5e9102c
> > 7570c-png.37471/>
> > <http://www.iphoneforums.net/attachments/b2d960fc-d1f5-4be6-a3f6-e1fdbd3
> > de5ad-png.37472/>
> >
> > also note the date, november 2017, which shatters your usual excuse
> > that it's 'an old version of ios and was removed'.
>
> Another trait of the Apple Apologists is to claim a functionality simply by
> showing a screenshot which doesn't actually show the claimed functionality.

it shows the claimed functionality.

just what do you think 'physical cell id' means?
<http://www.iphoneforums.net/attachments/a986329a-82a9-4abd-bfdf-514132f
522f6-png.37469/>

i'm quite sure you haven't any clue what the rest of the information
means, so i won't embarrass you further.

[nospam]

In article <pl28al...@ID-201911.user.individual.net>, Frank Slootweg

<th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

> > > > > Once again: Can I just connect an iPad to my PC with a USB cable, see
> > > > > the iPad as a storage device, and transfer files, both ways, no app
> > > > > required? I can do that with most devices and cameras that I've
> > > > > tried.
> > > > > The exceptions are generally older obsolete/obsolescent products.
> > > >
> > > > the ipad is not 'a storage device'. it's a mobile computer.
> > >
> > > Which can NOT do what most other devices in it's class -
> > > specifically Android devices - CAN do and DO do out of the box.
> >
> > nonsense.
> >
> > ios devices do some things android devices cannot and android devices
> > can do some things an ios device cannot.
> >
> > no device does everything in every situation.
>
> Translation: "iOS can indeed not do what the five (or more) of you ask
> for!"

not in the narrowly defined terms intentionally crafted so it can't
ever work while ignoring the numerous *other* ways to do exactly what
the user wants to do, which is *move* *files* *from* *one* *device*
*to* *another*.

you are apparently incapable of seeing anything beyond one single
method.

as i said earlier, you aren't interested in a solution. you just want
to rant.

> > you are also missing the entire point, which is to move files.
>
> Dream on! *I* am not missing any point.

oh yes you are.

> BTW, the point is NOT just to
> move files, but let's not quibble about that 'detail'.

ok, what exactly is the point, if not to move files from one device to
another?

being able to see the file system does not accomplish that.

there are *many* ways to move content in either direction, between ios
and any other platform.

*that* is the task at hand, and *that* is the point.

how that gets done is irrelevant.

but if you want to lock yourself into only one method and refuse all
other suggestions, that's a limitation *you* are imposing upon
yourself.

> > nobody (but you) gives a shit whether a file is moved via usb or wifi
> > or some other method. what matters is getting it from one device to
> > another.
>
> Actually (at least) FIVE of us do give a shit. OTOH, YOU divert from
> USB to Wi-Fi, because you can't deliver a working USB solution for the
> stated scenario.

i already said usb works.

i also said there are other options, including wifi, which is almost
always significantly more convenient than fussing with usb, even on a
remote island (via p2p wifi).

there is more than one solution, almost all of which are vastly more
efficient than your method, however, the user can choose whatever works
best for them.

> > > > try connecting two windows computers via usb and see how well that
> > > > works out for you.
> > >
> > > Well, BETTER than connecting an iOS device to a Windows computer via
> > > USB.
> >
> > nope. not better. it simply will not work.
>
> Yes, it WILL work. That you don't know how, isn't anybodies problem
> but yours.

nope. it won't work. usb is master/slave, not peer to peer. a standard
usb cable won't even fit, at least not usb a/b.

usb-c might work (haven't tried), but so far, not a lot of computers
have usb-c, nor do most android phones, so that isn't a viable option,
assuming it even works.

usb on the go might work, but few, if any pcs are usb to go devices. in
other words, not an option one can rely upon.

> But you again/still FAIL to deliver the specific names/URLs of such
> "necessary apps". Why? Because you can't. Prove us wrong by actually
> delivering on your claim.

i have, many times, but after a while, it gets old.

[nospam]

In article <-eadnS3ZW5LKF-nG...@brightview.co.uk>, NY

<m...@privacy.net> wrote:

> >> To transfer photos and videos from your phone to PC, connect your
> >> phone to the PC with a USB cable. Make sure the phone is on and
> >> unlocked, and that you're using a working cable...
> >> ...
> >> On iPhones: Make sure your phone is unlocked, and when you see the
> >> Trust this device notification, select Accept.
> >>
> >> iphones and ipads will work in the same manner.
>
> Hmm. Why did I not experience this when I connected an iPad to a Windows PC
> by USB?

dunno. you haven't provided sufficient information to diagnose it.

all you've done is rant how apple makes it difficult (they don't).

> And yes, the cable worked OK to do the same process from an Android
> phone.

no it didn't, because you would have needed to use a *different* cable.

ios devices use a lightning connector (or a dock connector for older
devices).

android devices use any of a variety of connectors, including mini-usb,
ext-usb, micro-usb, micro-usb3, usb-c or a proprietary connector,
depending on which device.

> Plugged phone in. Windows Explorer showed the iPad by its name, but with no
> folders below there. The iPad was turned on and was displaying its normal
> desktop of icons. There was no "trust this device" message to respond to.

that could be why, however, that is normally only needed once, so it's
possible you trusted it an earlier time.

> I know that Android doesn't display folders below the device name if the
> screen is turned off and you need to unlock it at the lock screen, but in
> the case of the iPad, it *was* unlocked.
>
> Subsequently I ran iTunes on the Windows PC and plugged in the iPad in the
> hope that iTunes would recognise it as a device (eg for synchronising music
> with) because I know this also displays the contents of the remote (iPad)
> device. But I got a really "helpful" vague message "an error has occurred"
> or something like that, which did not advance things at all.

did it list an error code? can you duplicate it and take a screen shot
(or detail exactly what it said)?

also, which ipad & what version of ios, and what version of windows and
itunes?

another possibility is you need to update one or more components. my
guess is that's probably it, but that's a guess at this point.

> The Windows Knowledge Base entry implies that it *will* work (subject to
> needing the device unlocked)

yep.

> and doesn't even mention the need to change the
> USB settings (or how to do so) in the case of Apple devices,

what usb settings?

> and it says
> something will happen (the Trust message) which doesn't. If a device doesn't
> do what the instructions confidently say will happen, how do you proceed?

it should work, but it's difficult to diagnose remotely without more
information.

[nospam]

In article <pl2791...@ID-201911.user.individual.net>, Frank Slootweg

<th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

> > In article <8u6dne978oOs9-nG...@brightview.co.uk>, NY
> > <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> > > But you have a USB cable with you. If the Apple device had been Android
> > > instead, you'd have had innate, out of the box connectivity.
> >
> > same for ios.
> >
> > you said you wanted to transfer photos.
>
> He said no such thing!

actually, he did.

In article <PdSdnbimt8NWYtjG...@brightview.co.uk>, NY
<m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> When I plugged my wife's iPad into my Windows laptop, only a few folders
> were visible (I forget which) and DCIM was not among them. When I tried to
> access the iPad from iTunes on the laptop, it gave a non-specific error of
> the form "An error has occurred" (nice and useful!) and did not see the iPad
> as a device that iTunes could communicate with.

and again today:

In article <-eadnS3ZW5LKF-nG...@brightview.co.uk>, NY
<m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> Hmm. Why did I not experience this when I connected an iPad to a Windows PC

> by USB? And yes, the cable worked OK to do the same process from an Android
> phone.
>





> >

> > > Is there an app that can be
> > > installed on either Apple, Windows laptop or both that will give USB
> > > connectivity so part of the Apple's storage appears as an extra Windows
> > > drive?
> >
> > not as an extra windows drive, since that makes no sense and it's also
> > a security hole. it's also the old primitive way of doing things.
>
> 1) *Why*, dear allmighty, does it make no sense?

because direct file system access primitive and obsolete. it's a relic
from the past when computers were less capable and the number of files
was much, much less.

these days, users have many, many thousands of photos, videos, songs,
documents and much more. few people, if any, can keep track of
everything, let alone organize it in useful ways.

it's grunt work that computers can do far better than humans can,
allowing users to concentrate on getting stuff done, not dealing with
moving files around.

computers are there to do work *for* you, not the other way around.

> 2) Who cares that
> "it's a security hole"?

those who don't want their devices to be pwned.

unfortunately, we live in a world where bad guys take full advantage of
any security hole they can find.

> Who is going to 'break in' on this USB
> connection.

anyone who is able to connect the device to a computer via usb.

someone could connect a lost or stolen phone to their computer and
potentially copy off all of its data. that would be bad.

that does mean legitimate users may need to authenticate for access,
but as i said, we live in a world where that's an unfortunate
necessity.

> 3) "it's also the old primitive way of doing things" means
> Apple can't do it. Thanks for the confirmation.

nope. it means apple is moving beyond the old ways of doing things.

it also means you want to remain stuck in the past.

[Wolf K]

On 2018-08-15 11:28, nospam wrote:
[...]

> apparently, you do not know about 'those web-based methods', given that
> many of them predate the web, however, some may be accessible via the
> web, for example, dropbox.

[...]

True, they do, but it's all "the web" now, so read for context and
intension (that's not a typo).

PS: I should've put in an "etc", I apologise bigly.

--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
Do you know what they call alternative medicine that’s been proven to
work? Medicine. (T. Minchin)

[Wolf K]

On 2018-08-15 11:28, nospam wrote:

This subthread is about transferring files via USB cables. Always has been.

[nospam]

In article <Nl1dD.177222$LE1....@fx35.iad>, Wolf K

<wol...@sympatico.ca> wrote:

> > apparently, you do not know about 'those web-based methods', given that
> > many of them predate the web, however, some may be accessible via the
> > web, for example, dropbox.
>

> True, they do, but it's all "the web" now, so read for context and
> intension (that's not a typo).

no, it's not all 'the web' now, and i do know what you meant. you're
still wrong.

i'll spell it out for you:
files can be transferred *directly* *between* *devices*, peer to peer,
without using what you're calling 'the web', using any of a number of
protocols, with or without cables.

the options are numerous, however, there are those who refuse to see
any of them. very strange.

> PS: I should've put in an "etc", I apologise bigly.

that would not have helped in the way you think it would.

[nospam]

In article <rp1dD.171135$oW2.1...@fx41.iad>, Wolf K

<wol...@sympatico.ca> wrote:

> >>> i've even explained it to *you* a while back, regarding smb apps. or
> >>> have you somehow forgotten that?
> >>
> >> 1) This isn't about me, but - as I stated in the part you SNIPPED -
> >> about Bob-S and Wolf K, 2) This isn't about SMB. 3) Me being interested
> >> in SMB on iOS, unlikely, so PROVE me wrong.
> >
> > it's about transferring files, and smb is one such method among many
> > others, which i listed already.
>
> This subthread is about transferring files via USB cables. Always has been.

nope. it's about moving files from one device to another. always has
been because that's the *only* thing that matters.

files are not going to be 'better' if they're sent over usb than wifi.
at the end of the day, they're the same files.

and as has been repeatedly said, there is no issue with using usb if
that's what the user wants to do.

as has also been said, there are numerous *other* options, ones that in
nearly every case, are more efficient and far less hassle than fussing
with cables and mucking directly with the file system.

why do people insist on doing things the hard way when far easier and
far more reliable methods are available? very strange.

and that doesn't even touch on the issues of keeping everything in sync
across all devices.

[Wolf K]

On 2018-08-15 11:28, nospam wrote:

[...]

> the ipad is not 'a storage device'.

Of course it is. If it didn't store data, it would be almost useless.

>it's a mobile computer.

[...]

So what? My Samsung G5 is a mobile computer. So's my car. So are our
digital cameras, albeit highly specialised ones. Etc. There are so many
devices these days that there's no point trying to enumerate them all.

Point is, the iPad has storage on it. So from the POV of any connected
device, it's just storage. I can connect miscellaneous devices to my
Windows computers. Then I can see the storage on those devices, can read
whatever files are in there, and write to those devices, too (though
it's kinda pointless to write files to a camera). Can I do that with an
iPad? Apparently not. Some members of my family have iPads/iPhones,
occasionally they email me pictures that they've taken. I've had no
reason try a USB cable connection (sorry, NY and Frank, if I gave a
misleading implication), but I can imagine a few scenarios where it
might be expedient.

Oh, about the car: my bad. It's actually a mobile network.

[Wolf K]

On 2018-08-15 15:12, nospam wrote:
[...]

> you said you wanted to transfer photos. connect the ipad via usb and
> use whatever photo apps you normally use with other cameras. that can
> even be set up to auto-copy when the ipad is connected.

[...]

I don't use an app to transfer photos from the camera. Windows Explorer
sees the camera as a folder, just like any other connected storage device.

--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
Do you know what they call alternative medicine that’s been proven to

work? Medicine. (T. Minchin)

[Wolf K]

On 2018-08-15 15:12, nospam wrote:
[...]

> no he doesn't. he doesn't even understand what web-based even means.

[...]

ROTFLMAO

I go back to the days of Kermit, and such.

[Wolf K]

On 2018-08-15 15:13, nospam wrote:
[...]

> using usb is an artificial limitation you are imposing,

[...]

Nope, it's the focus of this subthread.

[Lewis]

In message <WfAcD.77873$oW2....@fx41.iad> Wolf K <wol...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> On 2018-08-13 22:50, nospam wrote:
>> In article <pktfns$g76$1...@dont-email.me>, Bob_S <go...@phoenix.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I needed a new tablet this past week so I bought the new 9.7 iPad with 128GB
>>> storage. Gorgeous screen and it's fast. Great tablet - but I live in a
>>> Windows world and after finding out the limitations and kludges I would have
>>> to use to transfer files/folders between the systems, I gave up. Not worth
>>> the effort.
>>
>> it's very easy to move content to/from an ipad, regardless of operating
>> system.

> Typical utterly useless "You're wrong" post.

The idiot troll is always wrong.

> It's time you gave real world examples so that the poor sods who lack
> your brilliance and knowledge can learn how to dfo it themselves.

Been done, dozens of times. There are threads with hundreds of posts
detailing how to do something extrmely simple where itio troll continues
to claim it's impossible.

I transfer files between my computers an iPads with no issue at all, and
have been doing it for many years.

1. Connect device and drag files in via iTunes
2. User a service like Dropbox, Google Drive., of iCloud Drive
3. Use AirDrop from another iOS device or a Mac
4. Email
5. Messages
6. other messaging services that work on iOS and support files (Dunno
which, I don't use other message programes, but I expect they exist).
7. Use a Synology with DS File
8. Backblaze
9. FTP server
10. HTTP server

And I bet I am forgetting many.

--
History had wanted surgery. Sometimes Dr Chopper is the only surgeon to
hand. There's something final about an axe.

[Lewis]

In message <S%WcD.81731$vh4....@fx37.iad> Wolf K <wol...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> On 2018-08-15 10:16, nospam wrote:
>> In article <K2WcD.170549$LE1.1...@fx35.iad>, Wolf K
>> <wol...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> [...]
>>> OK, so I can connect any iPad to my Windows PC's via USB ports, and I
>>> will see the the iPad's files.
>>>
>>> Right?
>>
>> as usual, you snipped the numerous options i gave. now do you see why i
>> am not particularly interested in explaining things further?

> I'm asking specifically about USB-to-USB port, just plug in the cable,
> and go.

No you're not. You're interested in trolling.

There are MANY ways to get files to/from and iOS devices and anyone who
claims it's impossible is a troll liar shit.

Now, if your question is "can I use <arbitrary method>" then no, you
cannot. And you will never be able to see all of the iOS filesystem.
Ever. But can you easily, trivially, put your files on your iOS device and
take them off? Yes you can.

> Sure, I know about all those web-based methods, which is why I snipped
> that bit. They aren't the issue.

They are some of the many ways to get files on and off iOS, so yes, they
are.

> Once again: Can I just connect an iPad to my PC with a USB cable, see
> the iPad as a storage device

You know damn well you can't, and you never have and you never will. iOS
doesn't let you fuck around with its files. If you want that, you need
the malware magnet security by tape and sticky paper of Android.

--
"Thank you for sending me a copy of your book; I'll waste no time
reading it." - Moses Hadas

[Wolf K]

On 2018-08-15 17:24, nospam wrote:
[...]

> ios devices use a lightning connector (or a dock connector for older
> devices).

[...]

That's why there are Lightning to USB cables....

[Lewis]

In message <-eadnS3ZW5LKF-nG...@brightview.co.uk> NY <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> Hmm. Why did I not experience this when I connected an iPad to a Windows PC
> by USB? And yes, the cable worked OK to do the same process from an Android
> phone.

I call bullshit. You cannot use the same cable for an Android device
and an iPhone.

You are a lying troll, and you can go in the bitbucket now, asshole.


--
I SAW NOTHING UNUSUAL IN THE TEACHER'S LOUNGE Bart chalkboard Ep. 8F17

[Lewis]

In message <pl1nom...@ID-201911.user.individual.net> Frank Slootweg <th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> In article <K2WcD.170549$LE1.1...@fx35.iad>, Wolf K
>> <wol...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>

>> > >>>>>> I needed a new tablet this past week so I bought the new 9.7 iPad
>> > >>>>>> with 128GB storage. Gorgeous screen and it's fast. Great tablet
>> > >>>>>> - but I live in a Windows world and after finding out the
>> > >>>>>> limitations and kludges I would have to use to transfer
>> > >>>>>> files/folders between the systems, I gave up. Not worth the
>> > >>>>>> effort.
>> > >>>>> it's very easy to move content to/from an ipad, regardless of operating
>> > >>>>> system.
>> > >>>> Typical utterly useless "You're wrong" post.
>> > >>>>

>> > >>>> It's time you gave real world examples so that the poor sods who lack
>> > >>>> your brilliance and knowledge can learn how to dfo it themselves.

>> > >>> that's been done numerous times,
>> > >> But you can't/won't give a pointer! Why's that!?
>> > > i*have* given pointers. many, many times.
>> > >
>> > > i've even explained it to*you* a while back, regarding smb apps. or

>> > > have you somehow forgotten that?
>> > >

>> > > unlike android devices, smb on ios does*not* require root/jailbreak.

>> > [...]
>> >
>> > OK, so I can connect any iPad to my Windows PC's via USB ports, and I
>> > will see the the iPad's files.
>> >
>> > Right?
>>
>> as usual, you snipped the numerous options i gave. now do you see why i
>> am not particularly interested in explaining things further?
>>

>> here it is again:
>> > the reality is that there are numerous methods for transferring content
>> > in either direction using industry standard protocols, including via
>> > ftp, sftp, ftps, http, afp, smb, webdav, amazon s3, dropbox & other
>> > cloud services as well as many other options, no kludges necessary. it
>> > might require downloading an app, but that's about it.

> In other words, the answer (to - amongst others - Wolf K question) is
> 'no'.

The answer to his question is "yes,. of course, this is how you do it"
and you and your mate scream like widdle babies "I DON'T WANT TO DO IT
THAT WAY!" and claim that means it's impossible.

--
In other news, Gandalf died. -- Secret Diary of Boromir

[Arlen Holder]

On 15 Aug 2018 13:26:43 GMT, Alan Baker wrote:

> Provide the quote and the reference, or we're done.

The proof is stellar to the reader at large how the Apple Apologists play
their fifth grade silly semantic games, day in and day out on the Usenet.

Why do the Apple Apologists like Alan Baker play these silly games?

I don't know why.

Over the decades, I've seen them incessantly play these games, where they
particularly play their silly semantic games whenever "inconvenient facts"
threaten their imaginary belief system.

These facts that threaten their imaginary belief system generally are facts
that indicate an inability of their desired OS to perform typically the
simplest of tasks that all other common consumer operating systems easily
perform.

What the Apple Apologists do, first and foremost, is deny the facts.
Then they generally make blatant fabricated assertions of functionality.
When confronted with facts to the contrary, they continue to deny facts.
And then, they generally divert the conversation with silly semantic games.

In stark contrast, while there are childish people on the non-Apple
os-related groups, in general, the Windows, Linux, and Android posters have
no problem with inconvenient facts.

That is, a Windows poster generally can disparage Microsoft accurately.
Likewise, a Linux poster can say the truth about Canonical or RedHat.
Similarly, an Android poster can ask how to avoid using Google Play.

On all these groups with mostly normal adults, such questions are handled
factually, and without 1,000 times the number of needless articles.

But not on Apple-based newsgroups.
On any discussion of fact on an Apple-based newsgroup, if that fact is
unpalatable to the Apple Apologists, they will do their damdness to deny
patently obvious facts.

Witness the patently obvious fact, for example, that iOS can't even graph
the WiFi signal strength over time for all access points visible to the
device ... where that fact alone spawned something like 1,000 posts
(roughly), about half of which are by the Apple Apologists who denied the
obvious fact - and the other half (roughly) providing the data that the
Apple Apologists deny exists.

And yet ... the truth was, and still is - that the iOS device is patently
incapable of graphing wifi signal strength over time for the visible access
point. It's just not capable . That's a fact.

There are literally hundreds of such undeniable facts that the Apple
Apologists consistently deny, from the lack of ability to record phone
conversations automatically to the lack of ability to organize a screen
effectively to the lack of ability to torrent to the lack of ability to
rename app icons to make sense to the lack of ability to determine cell
tower IDs accurately to the lack of ability to easily manage older IPAs
like we can trivially easily manage older APKs & zip & deb files to the
lack of ability to easily manage your device storage sans Apple-branded
abominations like *every* other consumer platform allows.

NOTE: The list goes on for quite a long time for app functionality that,
for example, all other similar compute devices, and that particularly,
Android devices have that iOS just can't possibly do - while it was long
ago proven there is actually zero app functionality on iOS that isn't
already on Android.


Why are the Apple Apologists different from normal adults?

I don't know why.

But they are.

*I think facts threaten the Apple Apologists' imaginary belief system.*

Luckily for you, the reader, that Alan Brown, a classic (Mac) Apple
Apologist, quite literally proves the veracity of everything I posited.

[Alan Baker]

As I expected, you've posted no facts; at least no pertinent ones.

We're done and you lose.

[Arlen Holder]

On 15 Aug 2018 23:35:22 GMT, Lewis wrote:

> 1. Connect device and drag files in via iTunes
> 2. User a service like Dropbox, Google Drive., of iCloud Drive
> 3. Use AirDrop from another iOS device or a Mac
> 4. Email
> 5. Messages
> 6. other messaging services that work on iOS and support files (Dunno
> which, I don't use other message programes, but I expect they exist).
> 7. Use a Synology with DS File
> 8. Backblaze
> 9. FTP server
> 10. HTTP server

Hehhehheh ... all kludges ... each with astoundingly huge drawbacks...

Not one of the solutions even comes close in either utility or
comprehensive power to the universal USB-based zero-apps-needed zero-clouds
needed zero servers needed zero NAS servers needed zero proprietary
solutions needed, etc., simple native solution that all common consumer
platforms employ, that aren't iOS.

1. The iTunes abomination - hundreds of megabytes of Orwellian restrictions
2. The cloud (a MARKETING dream to rent your data back to you forever)
3. AirDrop (where the real world is, in Apple's own words "not supported")
4. Email (hehhehheh ... try that with a *large* set of files!)
5. Messages (hehhehheh ... even moreso - try that will a zillion files)
6. See above and add "imaginary functionality" to the list
7. A personal NAS provider which is overkill for something so simple
8. More cloud solutions that MARKETING dreams of entrapping users into
9. FTP server - you're joking right? Havef you ever tried it on iOS?
10. HTTP server - you're joking right? Have you ever tried it on iOS?
HINT: Both FTP & HTTP servers work fine on Android - where FTP works better
for large file transfers - but on iOS it's basically non functionally
useless.

See details why #9 & #10 are patently hilarious on iOS in this thread:
How to transfer iPad photos/videos to/from Linux/Windows over Wi-Fi LAN?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/YtpKpDhWm_s/yphq_3bRCAAJ>

[Arlen Holder]

On 15 Aug 2018 17:21:15 GMT, Alan Baker wrote:

> As I expected, you've posted no facts; at least no pertinent ones.

Everything you Apple Apologists post indicates that you're actually dumb.
But, nobody can be as dumb as you're playing.
So the only logical conclusion is that all you *can* do, is play silly
games.

All you Apple Apologists are alike in that way.
You're not at all like normal adults.
Why are Apple Apologists not like normal adults?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/2BJ0i7LtngQ/tv_HQ-iRDQAJ>

For example, this is an obvious fact that the Apple Apologists denied:
It's a fact that iOS can't even display WiFi strength over time for available access points
< <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/PZuec56EWB0[1-25]>>
HINT: It's a fact - and - it's a fact the Apple Apologists denied!

Just last month, yet again, the Apple Apologists Jolly Roger and nospam
repeatedly fabricated non-existent functionality which they insisted the OP
try (where the OP was a valid Apple user, Wade Garrett, who vainly tried
the imaginary functionality that both Jolly Roger and nospam *insisted*
existed - even as more intelligent users like David Empson - who has never
once been wrong - proved otherwise!)
Copy App from iPad to iPad Mini
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.ipad/Tufx3qIBZBw>

This poor Apple user, like many, asked a basic question of how to do
something that would be trivial on all common consumer operating systems
other than iOS.

What he got from the Apple Apologists was pure fiction!
Repeatedly, the Apple Apologists screamed out imaginary functionality.
The Apple Apologists even chastised the poor OP for his utter failure.

And yet, David Empson, probably the most respected technically accurate
poster on all Apple groups, proved the claims of the Apple Apologists to be
utterly false.

They simply made them up.
Why?

I don't know why.

You tell me why.

Why do Apple Apologists incessantly fabricate imaginary functionality?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/vcq3ESStmlc/DTreKP6lBAAJ>

[Arlen Holder]

On 15 Aug 2018 16:57:56 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:

> Same here, and the same goes for many people I know who actually use iOS
> devices rather than trolling Apple news groups about supposedly being
> unable to do these simple things with them. Some people get shit done;
> some people just troll

The funny thing is that both you, Jolly Roger, and Lewis, are classic Apple
Apologists, both of whom are on record for many times denying facts that
are inconvenient to you - and yet - you supply exact zero references to
back up your facts.

Want me to back up my facts?
Let's just look at this recent thread, shall we?

In that thread, you, Jolly Roger, literally screamed many times that the
IPA functionality that the OP, Wade Garrett asked for, existed in iOS, when
David Empson (who I may remind the others, is NEVER wrong and who is the
most respected technically astute poster on all the iOS newsgroups bar
none) literally said you're dead wrong - Jolly Roger.

Copy App from iPad to iPad Mini
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.ipad/Tufx3qIBZBw>

Since your credibility and that of Lewis is worthless, but mine is stellar,
allow me to back up that claim with a reference from David Empson himself:
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/Tufx3qIBZBw/z3kVVoc-CAAJ>

Allow me to remind the audience that David Empson, who is one of the most,
if not the most technically astute Apple posters ever, was responding
directly to your wild claims, Jolly Roger, where he started with "nope" and
then proved you fabricated your claim thereafter.

Why do you Apple Apologists incessantly fabricate imaginary functionality?

I don't know why.

Over the decades, I've learned that Apple Apologist guesses are right about
1 out of 20 times, which means Apple Apologists lead astray 19 out of 20
posters (in this case it was Wade Garrett, no friend of mine, who is a
typical iOS user - who finally concluded the task was *impossible* to
accomplish with iOS - under his real world circumstances where David Empson
backs him up).

Yet you and nospam (and probably Lewis, I'd have to look) *deny* this fact.
What you do is brazenly claim wholly fabricated imaginary functionality!

Why?
I don't know why.

Certainly you're not in the least trying to help that original iOS poster.

I don't think it's just that you're dumb either... since nobody can be
_that_ dumb. They just can't be as dumb as what you write makes you appear
to be.

So the only logical conclusion is simply that you're playing silly games.
Why do you Apple Apologists incessantly play your silly games?

I don't know why.

You're not like normal adults.

You, and people like you, are the reason, unilaterally, why any thread that
has Apple Apologists on it drags on to infinity with outrageous claims of
imaginary functionality - and yet - you can *never* prove any of them.
(because they're all fictional fabrications)

Why do the trolls like Jolly Roger & nospam always FABRICATE everything?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/GExRc1qrFGo/JBzdCKSSAwAJ>

[Arlen Holder]

On 15 Aug 2018 14:24:04 GMT, nospam wrote:

> whenever he's shown to be wrong, he goes off on a rant.

No rant. Just facts.

It's a fact current iOS devices can't even report the correct cell tower ID
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/2F_24NrIU3Q/t7_jS4zyAgAJ>

Is there a reason (what is the reason) Apple iOS won't let users get the cell tower ID?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/1QKD-6c06_w[201-225]>

Which app do you use to scan/debug GSM/CDMA cellular tower signal strength?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/LizlMNsu49Q/oQJXKyX-CAAJ>

etc.

[nospam]

In article <pl2pfu$nto$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen Holder

<arlen...@nospam.net> wrote:

> It's a fact current iOS devices can't even report the correct cell tower ID

it's a fact that you're full of shit.

<http://www.iphoneforums.net/attachments/234545fd-a440-432b-ac8a-12f1019
de8f7-png.37470/>

so much for your 'facts'.

> Is there a reason (what is the reason) Apple iOS won't let users get the
> cell tower ID?

they have no issue with users getting the cell tower id, not that it's
of much use, but those who want that info can obtain it.

<http://www.iphoneforums.net/attachments/234545fd-a440-432b-ac8a-12f1019
de8f7-png.37470/>

[nospam]

In article <wG2dD.154234$Nx7.1...@fx31.iad>, Wolf K

<wol...@sympatico.ca> wrote:

> > you said you wanted to transfer photos. connect the ipad via usb and
> > use whatever photo apps you normally use with other cameras. that can
> > even be set up to auto-copy when the ipad is connected.
>

> I don't use an app to transfer photos from the camera. Windows Explorer
> sees the camera as a folder, just like any other connected storage device.

windows explorer is an app, so yes you do use an app.

since the ipad is seen as a standard digital camera, windows explorer
will work, which i've said several times already and which you continue
to ignore for some reason.

however, windows explorer is a very poor choice for photo management,
but that's a completely separate issue and nothing is preventing you
from using it if that's what you want to use.

[nospam]

In article <HH2dD.154235$Nx7....@fx31.iad>, Wolf K

<wol...@sympatico.ca> wrote:

> > no he doesn't. he doesn't even understand what web-based even means.
>

> ROTFLMAO
>
> I go back to the days of Kermit, and such.

as if that means something.

nothing is stopping you from using kermit to transfer files to/from an
ios device, assuming one could find a suitable host that supported it.

it would not be a very productive method, but if that's what you want
to do, by all means, go for it.

[nospam]

In article <yJ2dD.154236$Nx7....@fx31.iad>, Wolf K

<wol...@sympatico.ca> wrote:

> > using usb is an artificial limitation you are imposing,
>

> Nope, it's the focus of this subthread.

nope. it's a self-imposed limitation.

usb does work (as has been explained many times), however, there are
*other* choices available, some of which are much simpler than usb, and
denying their existence (which you insist on doing) is crazy.

[nospam]

In article <slrnpn9e5q....@jaka.lan>, Lewis

<g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> >>
> >>> I needed a new tablet this past week so I bought the new 9.7 iPad with
> >>> 128GB
> >>> storage. Gorgeous screen and it's fast. Great tablet - but I live in a
> >>> Windows world and after finding out the limitations and kludges I would
> >>> have
> >>> to use to transfer files/folders between the systems, I gave up. Not
> >>> worth
> >>> the effort.
> >>
> >> it's very easy to move content to/from an ipad, regardless of operating
> >> system.
>
> > Typical utterly useless "You're wrong" post.
>
> The idiot troll is always wrong.

actually, the original text is likely from a different person than the
nym-shifting troll, despite some similarities, just not enough for me
to consider it to be a match.

in any event, he gave up without trying very hard.

> > It's time you gave real world examples so that the poor sods who lack
> > your brilliance and knowledge can learn how to dfo it themselves.
>
> Been done, dozens of times. There are threads with hundreds of posts
> detailing how to do something extrmely simple where itio troll continues
> to claim it's impossible.

yep.

> I transfer files between my computers an iPads with no issue at all, and
> have been doing it for many years.

yep. millions of people do it every day.

> 1. Connect device and drag files in via iTunes
> 2. User a service like Dropbox, Google Drive., of iCloud Drive
> 3. Use AirDrop from another iOS device or a Mac
> 4. Email
> 5. Messages
> 6. other messaging services that work on iOS and support files (Dunno
> which, I don't use other message programes, but I expect they exist).

those do exist. however, email or messages is not a practical option
except for the occasional photo or similar, although in many cases,
it's the simplest and easiest choice.

the cool thing about choices is you can pick what works best for a
given situation and not be limited to only one method.

> 7. Use a Synology with DS File
> 8. Backblaze
> 9. FTP server
> 10. HTTP server
>
> And I bet I am forgetting many.

yep.

as i've said before, there is smb, sftp, webdav and many others, and
that isn't even a complete list.

[nospam]

In article <slrnpn9egi....@jaka.lan>, Lewis

<g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> >>> OK, so I can connect any iPad to my Windows PC's via USB ports, and I
> >>> will see the the iPad's files.
> >>>
> >>> Right?
> >>
> >> as usual, you snipped the numerous options i gave. now do you see why i
> >> am not particularly interested in explaining things further?
>
> > I'm asking specifically about USB-to-USB port, just plug in the cable,
> > and go.
>
> No you're not. You're interested in trolling.
>
> There are MANY ways to get files to/from and iOS devices and anyone who
> claims it's impossible is a troll liar shit.

some might be trolls, but most are simply unaware of all of the options
available.

for some reason, they don't want to learn what those options are or if
any of them might be easier than what they're currently doing.

[nospam]

In article <zU2dD.22443$KD....@fx09.iad>, Wolf K

<wol...@sympatico.ca> wrote:

> > ios devices use a lightning connector (or a dock connector for older
> > devices).
>

> That's why there are Lightning to USB cables....

yep.

now explain why you snipped to alter context.

to remind you:
he claimed he used the *same* cable on both android and ios, and since
it worked on android, the cable wasn't the issue when he used it with
the ipad.

except that android and ios have *different* connectors, therefore it
could *not* have been the same cable.

heck, even different android devices might have different connectors
and will need different cables. i have three android devices, all of
which need different cables.

[nospam]

In article <ftjt04...@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger

<jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:

> >
> >> It's time you gave real world examples so that the poor sods who lack
> >> your brilliance and knowledge can learn how to dfo it themselves.
> >
> > Been done, dozens of times. There are threads with hundreds of posts
> > detailing how to do something extrmely simple where itio troll continues
> > to claim it's impossible.
> >
> > I transfer files between my computers an iPads with no issue at all, and
> > have been doing it for many years.
> >
> > 1. Connect device and drag files in via iTunes
> > 2. User a service like Dropbox, Google Drive., of iCloud Drive
> > 3. Use AirDrop from another iOS device or a Mac
> > 4. Email
> > 5. Messages
> > 6. other messaging services that work on iOS and support files (Dunno
> > which, I don't use other message programes, but I expect they exist).
> > 7. Use a Synology with DS File
> > 8. Backblaze
> > 9. FTP server
> > 10. HTTP server
> >
> > And I bet I am forgetting many.
>

> Same here, and the same goes for many people I know who actually use iOS
> devices rather than trolling Apple news groups about supposedly being
> unable to do these simple things with them. Some people get shit done;

> some people just troll.

actually, it's crossposted to several groups, including a windows
group, where the bulk of the arguments are originating.

[nospam]

In article <oB2dD.46941$XA2....@fx38.iad>, Wolf K

<wol...@sympatico.ca> wrote:

> > the ipad is not 'a storage device'.
>
> Of course it is. If it didn't store data, it would be almost useless.

ok, i can see you just want to argue, but i'll play along for a little
bit.

a hard drive and usb stick are storage devices.

nobody buys an ipad to be a storage device. that would be foolish.

an ipad is a mobile computer, which does happen to include storage, but
that doesn't make it a storage device.

a desktop computer also includes storage, so are you now going to claim
your desktop pc is 'a big hard drive' ?

> >it's a mobile computer.
>

> So what? My Samsung G5 is a mobile computer.

yep.

at least you got one right.

> So's my car.

not by any normal definition of computer, it isn't.

by your definition, a car would be a storage device since it has a
trunk to store luggage, groceries, golf clubs, dead bodies and all
sorts of other stuff. it also has a fuel tank to store fuel.

in many cars, there is more storage space than there is space for the
engine.

> So are our
> digital cameras, albeit highly specialised ones. Etc. There are so many
> devices these days that there's no point trying to enumerate them all.

yep, there is no point. you're just trying to argue.

> Point is, the iPad has storage on it. So from the POV of any connected
> device, it's just storage.

and since the windows pc has storage on it, from the pov of the ipad,
it's just storage, which the ipad can see, using any of a variety of
protocols, without any issue whatsoever.

so much for that argument.

next time, try to think things through a little better.

> I can connect miscellaneous devices to my
> Windows computers. Then I can see the storage on those devices, can read
> whatever files are in there, and write to those devices, too (though
> it's kinda pointless to write files to a camera). Can I do that with an
> iPad? Apparently not.

then you haven't been paying attention.

that works *without* *any* *issue*.

> Some members of my family have iPads/iPhones,
> occasionally they email me pictures that they've taken. I've had no
> reason try a USB cable connection (sorry, NY and Frank, if I gave a
> misleading implication), but I can imagine a few scenarios where it
> might be expedient.

yep, there are situations where usb cable is a good choice to transfer
photos from an ipad to a computer, and had you been paying any
attention, you'd know that it works perfectly fine.

there are *also* situations where a usb cable is *not* a good choice,
and had you been paying attention, you know that there are numerous
alternatives for those situations.

why are you forcing your own personal preference for a usb cable on
others, without even knowing what the scenario actually is?

> Oh, about the car: my bad. It's actually a mobile network.

nope. it's actually a car, which may or may not contain one or more
computers, which may or may not be connected via a network.

older vehicles do not have any computers at all. zero.

starting around the 1980s or so (it doesn't matter exactly when), many
cars had an ecu (what you are calling a computer) but they did not have
obd/canbus, therefore no network.

obd officially appeared in '96 (although a few vehicles had it earlier).

[Arlen Holder]

On 15 Aug 2018 13:41:02 GMT, Alan Baker wrote:

> The first of those screenshots clearly shows the cell tower ID.

I realize facts are anathema to you Apple Apologists, so I will simply ask
reasonable adults to look here which explains why that screenshot from
nospam is a deliberate farce.

It's a fact current iOS devices can't even report the correct cell tower ID

<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/2F_24NrIU3Q/t7_jS4zyAgAJ>

Bear in mind, there's a huge difference between guessing at a cell tower ID
(generally based on a flawed Internet lookup based on geolocation
statistics of reported tower locations) and *directly* obtaining the
"correct" cell tower ID (especially when, in the case of femtocells, where
the cell tower ID won't be found in the numerous Internet lookup
databases).

See also:

Is there a reason (what is the reason) Apple iOS won't let users get the cell tower ID?

[nospam]

In article <pl2tot$tib$2...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen Holder

<arlen...@nospam.net> wrote:

>
> > The first of those screenshots clearly shows the cell tower ID.
>
> I realize facts are anathema to you Apple Apologists, so I will simply ask
> reasonable adults to look here which explains why that screenshot from
> nospam is a deliberate farce.

*you* are a deliberate farce.

> It's a fact current iOS devices can't even report the correct cell tower ID

it's a fact they can, and do.

it's also a fact that you are a troll, a very stupid one.

> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/2F_24NrIU3Q/t7_jS4zy
> AgAJ>

linking to a thread where you spew the same bullshit under one of your
alternate nyms is not proof of anything.

> Bear in mind, there's a huge difference between guessing at a cell tower ID
> (generally based on a flawed Internet lookup based on geolocation
> statistics of reported tower locations) and *directly* obtaining the
> "correct" cell tower ID (especially when, in the case of femtocells, where
> the cell tower ID won't be found in the numerous Internet lookup
> databases).

bear in mind, you're full of shit.

it gets the tower id from the tower itself.

there is no internet lookup.

<http://www.iphoneforums.net/attachments/a986329a-82a9-4abd-bfdf-514132f
522f6-png.37469/>

[Arlen Holder]

On 15 Aug 2018 20:40:22 GMT, nospam wrote:

> it's a fact that you're full of shit.

You don't even realize you're referencing a picture from *my own thread*
from Oct 26, 2017 for heaven's sake!
Does iOS 10 & iOS 11 iPhone 7 Field Test Mode output femtocell unique cell id numbers & tower freqs

The guy who kindly posted those screenshots, at my repeated request, didn't
even know what they show - as the question was always to show the specific
*unique* cell tower ID of the *femtocells* for troubleshooting purposes.

I also asked the same question at the same time on Tom's Hardware, but
nobody knew the answer to the same femtocell question over there either.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-3552320/ios-ios-iphone-field-test-mode-output-femtocell-unique-cell-numbers-tower-freqs.html

[Arlen Holder]

On 15 Aug 2018 21:27:03 GMT, nospam wrote:

> bear in mind, you're full of shit.

Bear in mind you're repeating screenshots from *my own thread* for heaven's
sake ... where the guy who posted them didn't know what they showed and
where the question was clearly about obtaining the unique femtocell cell
tower ids.

Oct 26, 2017

[Arlen Holder]

On 15 Aug 2018 14:24:10 GMT, nospam wrote:

> it shows the claimed functionality.

You're repeating screenshots from *my own thread* for heaven's sake ...

where the guy who posted them didn't know what they showed and where the
question was clearly about obtaining the unique femtocell cell tower ids

and actual tower frequencies.

[Alan Baker]

On 2018-08-15 11:29 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On 15 Aug 2018 14:24:10 GMT, nospam wrote:
>
>> it shows the claimed functionality.
>
> You're repeating screenshots from *my own thread* for heaven's sake ...

Which only shows you know your claim to be false.

> where the guy who posted them didn't know what they showed and where the
> question was clearly about obtaining the unique femtocell cell tower ids
> and actual tower frequencies.

And what evidence do you have that those aren't "unique femtocell cell
tower ids"?

[Arlen Holder]

On 15 Aug 2018 20:40:25 GMT, nospam wrote:

> as i've said before, there is smb, sftp, webdav and many others, and
> that isn't even a complete list.

Hehhehheh ... you guys can try to get your data ... but the fact is nothing
is as simple, fast, or effective for large amounts of data, over USB.

For example, renting your data off the cloud is, to you, viable.
Or using iMessage to send hundreds of movies is, to you, viable.
Using AirDrop won't even work in the real world (which is "not supported").
Email? You've got to be kidding.

And, for the astoundingly hilarious suggestion of an FTP server, that works
fine for Android - but anyone who suggests it for iOS has no concept of
what they're talking about.

It's even worse for HTTP servers on iOS for heaven sake, which don't have
the benefits that FTP servers have.

It's just hilarious that, since you can't just plug in the iOS device to
the USB port of Windows and access the entire user file system (like you
can with Android), that you have to come up with these ridiculous kludges.

[Arlen Holder]

On 15 Aug 2018 23:33:31 GMT, Alan Baker wrote:

> And what evidence do you have that those aren't "unique femtocell cell
> tower ids"?

Have you ever seen a unique femtocell cell tower ID?

HINT: I have (I own one. Plus I own a cellular repeater. Each reports the
unique information differently - which is easily shown on Android.)

[NY]

"nospam" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:150820182340231121%nos...@nospam.invalid...

> In article <wG2dD.154234$Nx7.1...@fx31.iad>, Wolf K
> <wol...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>> > you said you wanted to transfer photos. connect the ipad via usb and
>> > use whatever photo apps you normally use with other cameras. that can
>> > even be set up to auto-copy when the ipad is connected.
>>
>> I don't use an app to transfer photos from the camera. Windows Explorer
>> sees the camera as a folder, just like any other connected storage
>> device.
>
> windows explorer is an app, so yes you do use an app.
>
> since the ipad is seen as a standard digital camera, windows explorer
> will work, which i've said several times already and which you continue
> to ignore for some reason.

It's useful to hear you say that "the ipad is seen as a standard digital
camera [and] windows explorer will work". It confirms that what I'm trying
to do *ought* to work and that I'm not attempting the impossible.

What further information and tests do I need to perform to help you diagnose
why what you say should work doesn't in my case?

> however, windows explorer is a very poor choice for photo management,
> but that's a completely separate issue and nothing is preventing you
> from using it if that's what you want to use.

I prefer using it so I retain control over which photos I select for
transfer and where on the recipient computer (eg Wndows) I put them. A lot
of photo-tranfer apps that come with cameras tend to take over and do
everything automatically in their own way.

[Alan Baker]

And yet, you do not show any actual reference to prove anything you just
said...

[Wolf K]

On 2018-08-15 18:47, nospam wrote:
> In article <Nl1dD.177222$LE1....@fx35.iad>, Wolf K
> <wol...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>>> apparently, you do not know about 'those web-based methods', given that
>>> many of them predate the web, however, some may be accessible via the
>>> web, for example, dropbox.
>>
>> True, they do, but it's all "the web" now, so read for context and
>> intension (that's not a typo).
>
> no, it's not all 'the web' now, and i do know what you meant. you're
> still wrong.
>
> i'll spell it out for you:
> files can be transferred *directly* *between* *devices*, peer to peer,
> without using what you're calling 'the web', using any of a number of
> protocols, with or without cables.

Yeah, I know that.

So tell us exactly how to use a cabled connection between an iOS or OS/x
device and a Windows or Android device. Oh, and without having to use an
"app" on either device. Just the file manager (as implied in the OP's
subject and original post).

Thanks.

> the options are numerous, however, there are those who refuse to see
> any of them. very strange.
>
>> PS: I should've put in an "etc", I apologise bigly.
>
> that would not have helped in the way you think it would.

That depends on the reader.


--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
Do you know what they call alternative medicine that’s been proven to
work? Medicine. (T. Minchin)

[Wolf K]

On 2018-08-15 18:47, nospam wrote:

> In article<rp1dD.171135$oW2.1...@fx41.iad>, Wolf K
> <wol...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>>>>> i've even explained it to*you* a while back, regarding smb apps. or
>>>>> have you somehow forgotten that?
>>>> 1) This isn't about me, but - as I stated in the part you SNIPPED -
>>>> about Bob-S and Wolf K, 2) This isn't about SMB. 3) Me being interested
>>>> in SMB on iOS, unlikely, so PROVE me wrong.
>>> it's about transferring files, and smb is one such method among many
>>> others, which i listed already.
>> This subthread is about transferring files via USB cables. Always has been.
> nope. it's about moving files from one device to another. always has
> been because that's the*only* thing that matters.

Bullshit.

[nospam]

In article <pl359b$90c$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen Holder

<arlen...@nospam.net> wrote:

>
> > it's a fact that you're full of shit.
>
> You don't even realize you're referencing a picture from *my own thread*

wrong.

> from Oct 26, 2017 for heaven's sake!

wrong*2.

the date is very clearly visible:
<http://www.iphoneforums.net/attachments/a986329a-82a9-4abd-bfdf-514132f
522f6-png.37469/>

you really are that stupid.

[nospam]

In article <T4mdneW5-Z-lvejG...@brightview.co.uk>, NY

<m...@privacy.net> wrote:

> >
> > since the ipad is seen as a standard digital camera, windows explorer
> > will work, which i've said several times already and which you continue
> > to ignore for some reason.
>
> It's useful to hear you say that "the ipad is seen as a standard digital
> camera [and] windows explorer will work". It confirms that what I'm trying
> to do *ought* to work and that I'm not attempting the impossible.

it ain't just me. microsoft and apple say the same thing.

> What further information and tests do I need to perform to help you diagnose
> why what you say should work doesn't in my case?

to start: ipad model & ios version, windows version (i think you said
7) & itunes version.

also, an *exact* description of any error codes that were displayed (or
screen shots).

i don't think it's the cable, but to be sure, is it a reputable brand
or a noname one? have you tried other cables?

> > however, windows explorer is a very poor choice for photo management,
> > but that's a completely separate issue and nothing is preventing you
> > from using it if that's what you want to use.
>
> I prefer using it so I retain control over which photos I select for
> transfer and where on the recipient computer (eg Wndows) I put them. A lot
> of photo-tranfer apps that come with cameras tend to take over and do
> everything automatically in their own way.

very few, if any do that, plus the apps that come *with* cameras tend
to be garbage and i'm not talking about those.

windows explorer is not designed to manage and organize photos (or
music for that matter), and it does not scale well.

something like adobe lightroom (not the only option, just one of the
better ones) lets you sort and organize photos in ways not possible
with explorer (including via smart collections, face recognition and
geotagging), as well as edit and retouch the photos, export in a
variety of formats, print in a variety of layouts, create books (great
gifts), directly upload to photo web sites (e.g., flickr) and much
more. you can keep the original photos wherever you want and use other
apps as well.

there are also ipad and android versions of lightroom, which can sync
with the desktop version.

you are always in control of what is done and how.

[nospam]

In article <yCedD.184305$Yn4....@fx36.iad>, Wolf K

<wol...@sympatico.ca> wrote:

> >
> > i'll spell it out for you:
> > files can be transferred *directly* *between* *devices*, peer to peer,
> > without using what you're calling 'the web', using any of a number of
> > protocols, with or without cables.
>
> Yeah, I know that.

apparently not.

> So tell us exactly how to use a cabled connection between an iOS or OS/x
> device and a Windows or Android device.

i did.

> Oh, and without having to use an
> "app" on either device. Just the file manager (as implied in the OP's
> subject and original post).

the file manager *is* an app.

[nospam]

In article <_CedD.184306$Yn4....@fx36.iad>, Wolf K

<wol...@sympatico.ca> wrote:

> >>>>> i've even explained it to*you* a while back, regarding smb apps. or
> >>>>> have you somehow forgotten that?
> >>>> 1) This isn't about me, but - as I stated in the part you SNIPPED -
> >>>> about Bob-S and Wolf K, 2) This isn't about SMB. 3) Me being interested
> >>>> in SMB on iOS, unlikely, so PROVE me wrong.
> >>> it's about transferring files, and smb is one such method among many
> >>> others, which i listed already.
> >> This subthread is about transferring files via USB cables. Always has been.
> > nope. it's about moving files from one device to another. always has
> > been because that's the*only* thing that matters.
>
> Bullshit.

bullshit right back.

[Wolf K]

On 2018-08-15 19:35, Lewis wrote:
> In message <WfAcD.77873$oW2....@fx41.iad> Wolf K <wol...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
[...]

>> It's time you gave real world examples so that the poor sods who lack
>> your brilliance and knowledge can learn how to dfo it themselves.
>
> Been done, dozens of times. There are threads with hundreds of posts
> detailing how to do something extrmely simple where itio troll continues
> to claim it's impossible.
>
> I transfer files between my computers an iPads with no issue at all, and
> have been doing it for many years.
>
> 1. Connect device and drag files in via iTunes
> 2. User a service like Dropbox, Google Drive., of iCloud Drive
> 3. Use AirDrop from another iOS device or a Mac
> 4. Email
> 5. Messages
> 6. other messaging services that work on iOS and support files (Dunno
> which, I don't use other message programes, but I expect they exist).
> 7. Use a Synology with DS File
> 8. Backblaze
> 9. FTP server
> 10. HTTP server
>
> And I bet I am forgetting many.

Yup, connect and use Explorer or other file manager. No messing around
with the cloud, or apps, or server systems, or whatever. Just plug 'em
in, and go.

In short, I see no reason why I should have to use any of those methods
if I don't want to. With Windows, I can connect another device via cable
(and some wirelessly), and see the other device as readable/writable
storage. Ie, I can "manage [the other device's files] natively on on
Windows."

Have a good day,

[Wolf K]

On 2018-08-15 19:41, Lewis wrote:
> In message<S%WcD.81731$vh4....@fx37.iad> Wolf K<wol...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>> On 2018-08-15 10:16, nospam wrote:
>>> In article<K2WcD.170549$LE1.1...@fx35.iad>, Wolf K
>>> <wol...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>> [...]

>>>> OK, so I can connect any iPad to my Windows PC's via USB ports, and I
>>>> will see the the iPad's files.
>>>>
>>>> Right?
>>> as usual, you snipped the numerous options i gave. now do you see why i
>>> am not particularly interested in explaining things further?
>> I'm asking specifically about USB-to-USB port, just plug in the cable,
>> and go.
> No you're not. You're interested in trolling.
>
> There are MANY ways to get files to/from and iOS devices and anyone who
> claims it's impossible is a troll liar shit.

[...]

I never claimed it was impossible. I know there are lots of ways of
doing it. Just not the one I prefer, it seems.