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Why The Key to Eckankar?
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Etznab
Jun 15, 2014, 7:08:52 PM6/15/14
to
A number of Paul Twitchell's books reportedly came from experiences with Eck Master Rebazar Tarzs. Here is some quick trivia about when and where.
1951?
"[....] My sole purpose was to find the elusive Tibetan lama, known as Rebazar Tarzs, of whom I had heard much from the late Sudar Singh at Allahabad. [....] It was a hot summer afternoon in 1951. [....]"
[Based on: ECKANKAR, Compiled Writings Volume 1, Paul Twitchell (Copyright 1975 by Gail T. Gross), p. 32 - Compiled from Introduction to Eckankar, Copyright 1966]
*Trivia: http://dlane5.tripod.com/reba1.html
1956?
"DIALOGUES WITH THE MASTER are a series of spiritual discourses which were taken down when Rebazar Tarzs, the ageless emissary for ECKANKAR in the world today, appeared to me nightly in his light body for practically one year and dictated them.
"This occurred while living in the nation's capital. I had been in India for a month or so prior to his first appearance. During this visit I was fortunate to meet him in Darjeeling as explained in my book 'An Introduction to Eckankar.' [....] The DIALOGUES in this book are as close as possible to the original words he spoke during his nightly visits to give me advanced training in the secret science of ECKANKAR. He concluded his series of talks that year by taking me on the spiritual journey recorded in my book 'The Tiger's Fang.' [....]"
[Based on: Introduction, p. 7, Dialogues with the Master, by Paul Twitchell, Eighth Printing - 1983]
1959?
"[....] 'It was while traveling with Sudar Singh in the Nuri Sarup that I met Rebazar Tarzs,' Paulji reminded me, 'and it was in the company of Rebazar Tarzs that I returned to a study of the Far Country. Later, with Gail and her spiritual guide, Dr. John Leland, I came to know Rebazar Tarzs better, and I began to leave my physical body at night to meet with him at his mud and brick hut in the Himalayas. It was a series of twelve important dialogues with Rebazar Tarzs which produced my manuscript The Far Country.'* [*Published in 1970.] [....]"
[Based on: IN MY SOUL I AM FREE, by Brad Steiger (Copyright 1968?), p. 121]
1963?
[....] Years ago when I [Paul Twitchell] returned from England and went to the northwest to live in Seattle, Washington, Rebazar Tarzs spent considerable time with me in his physical body. It was a case of his manifesting suddenly in his body and giving a series of talks on ECKANKAR, which were to be related to the world. Finally, one night in late winter, he wound up the series. I have tried, as best as possible, to summarize the talks here. [....]
[Based on: The Key to ECKANKAR, first chapter, first page - Copyright 1968]
1964?
"We were married in 1964 in San Francisco, and shortly afterwards Rebazar Tarzs began to appear and give me intensive instructions. He had been appearing regularly in the latter fifties, but he said that those sessions had only been designed to prepare me for the exhaustive drills which now faced me. I was told to move south, to choose San Diego for our home.
[Based on: IN MY SOUL I AM FREE, by Brad Steiger (Copyright 1968?), pp. 64-65]
****************************************************************************
From the above trivia one can see how many times Paul Twitchell mentioned his relationship with Rebazar Tarzs. Also see how much information allegedly came to Paul Twitchell via Rebazar Tarzs.
So what does it mean when copious sentences and paragraphs allegedly come to Paul from Rebazar Tarzs can also be found having come to Paul via the books that he read? Which is it? Dialogues with an Eck Master? or Paul Twitchell copying, paraphrasing and embellishing on the words of other writers in order to fashion a teaching he called Eckankar?
A time period for the book The Key to Eckankar I suspect could be 1963, or a little sooner. This was a time period when Paul Twitchell lived in Seattle. It was also the time period when he met a young librarian (Gail) who later became his wife; and who, years after that, became the wife of Paul Twitchell's successor, Darwin Gross.
O.K., so here we have the topic of plagiarism and copying from books at a time before the computer when people used typewriters. Not only do I suspect a lot of noise in the house where Paul lived with his wife (and former library worker), but I also suspect a number of books in the house and next to the typewriter (if Paul Twitchell did indeed plagiarize and paraphrase from the works of other people, a number of the books mentioned in his letters to Gail.)
The last piece of trivia to mention here is about what became of Gail, the widow of Eckankar's founder, Paul Twitchell and the former wife of Paul Twitchell's successor, Darwin Gross?
In a sales contract with Eckankar she was apparently released from all liability for the written works of Paul Twitchell, etc. Therefore, if there was any plagiarism then Gail is not liable for it. The sale was apparently to both "Darwin Gross and Eckankar". Darwin Gross, however, was removed from Eckankar and today is no longer living.
Who then is liable for the "Eckankar" plagiarisms now in existence today and who is going to answer for them? Apparently, not Paul. Not Gail. And not Darwin.
With regards to the current Living Eck Master, Harold Klemp, it might be a good question to ask the following: "On the official Eckankar website, in the books and talks by Harold Klemp, How many times does he mention the word plagiarism?
1951?
"[....] My sole purpose was to find the elusive Tibetan lama, known as Rebazar Tarzs, of whom I had heard much from the late Sudar Singh at Allahabad. [....] It was a hot summer afternoon in 1951. [....]"
[Based on: ECKANKAR, Compiled Writings Volume 1, Paul Twitchell (Copyright 1975 by Gail T. Gross), p. 32 - Compiled from Introduction to Eckankar, Copyright 1966]
*Trivia: http://dlane5.tripod.com/reba1.html
1956?
"DIALOGUES WITH THE MASTER are a series of spiritual discourses which were taken down when Rebazar Tarzs, the ageless emissary for ECKANKAR in the world today, appeared to me nightly in his light body for practically one year and dictated them.
"This occurred while living in the nation's capital. I had been in India for a month or so prior to his first appearance. During this visit I was fortunate to meet him in Darjeeling as explained in my book 'An Introduction to Eckankar.' [....] The DIALOGUES in this book are as close as possible to the original words he spoke during his nightly visits to give me advanced training in the secret science of ECKANKAR. He concluded his series of talks that year by taking me on the spiritual journey recorded in my book 'The Tiger's Fang.' [....]"
[Based on: Introduction, p. 7, Dialogues with the Master, by Paul Twitchell, Eighth Printing - 1983]
1959?
"[....] 'It was while traveling with Sudar Singh in the Nuri Sarup that I met Rebazar Tarzs,' Paulji reminded me, 'and it was in the company of Rebazar Tarzs that I returned to a study of the Far Country. Later, with Gail and her spiritual guide, Dr. John Leland, I came to know Rebazar Tarzs better, and I began to leave my physical body at night to meet with him at his mud and brick hut in the Himalayas. It was a series of twelve important dialogues with Rebazar Tarzs which produced my manuscript The Far Country.'* [*Published in 1970.] [....]"
[Based on: IN MY SOUL I AM FREE, by Brad Steiger (Copyright 1968?), p. 121]
1963?
[....] Years ago when I [Paul Twitchell] returned from England and went to the northwest to live in Seattle, Washington, Rebazar Tarzs spent considerable time with me in his physical body. It was a case of his manifesting suddenly in his body and giving a series of talks on ECKANKAR, which were to be related to the world. Finally, one night in late winter, he wound up the series. I have tried, as best as possible, to summarize the talks here. [....]
[Based on: The Key to ECKANKAR, first chapter, first page - Copyright 1968]
1964?
"We were married in 1964 in San Francisco, and shortly afterwards Rebazar Tarzs began to appear and give me intensive instructions. He had been appearing regularly in the latter fifties, but he said that those sessions had only been designed to prepare me for the exhaustive drills which now faced me. I was told to move south, to choose San Diego for our home.
[Based on: IN MY SOUL I AM FREE, by Brad Steiger (Copyright 1968?), pp. 64-65]
****************************************************************************
From the above trivia one can see how many times Paul Twitchell mentioned his relationship with Rebazar Tarzs. Also see how much information allegedly came to Paul Twitchell via Rebazar Tarzs.
So what does it mean when copious sentences and paragraphs allegedly come to Paul from Rebazar Tarzs can also be found having come to Paul via the books that he read? Which is it? Dialogues with an Eck Master? or Paul Twitchell copying, paraphrasing and embellishing on the words of other writers in order to fashion a teaching he called Eckankar?
A time period for the book The Key to Eckankar I suspect could be 1963, or a little sooner. This was a time period when Paul Twitchell lived in Seattle. It was also the time period when he met a young librarian (Gail) who later became his wife; and who, years after that, became the wife of Paul Twitchell's successor, Darwin Gross.
O.K., so here we have the topic of plagiarism and copying from books at a time before the computer when people used typewriters. Not only do I suspect a lot of noise in the house where Paul lived with his wife (and former library worker), but I also suspect a number of books in the house and next to the typewriter (if Paul Twitchell did indeed plagiarize and paraphrase from the works of other people, a number of the books mentioned in his letters to Gail.)
The last piece of trivia to mention here is about what became of Gail, the widow of Eckankar's founder, Paul Twitchell and the former wife of Paul Twitchell's successor, Darwin Gross?
In a sales contract with Eckankar she was apparently released from all liability for the written works of Paul Twitchell, etc. Therefore, if there was any plagiarism then Gail is not liable for it. The sale was apparently to both "Darwin Gross and Eckankar". Darwin Gross, however, was removed from Eckankar and today is no longer living.
Who then is liable for the "Eckankar" plagiarisms now in existence today and who is going to answer for them? Apparently, not Paul. Not Gail. And not Darwin.
With regards to the current Living Eck Master, Harold Klemp, it might be a good question to ask the following: "On the official Eckankar website, in the books and talks by Harold Klemp, How many times does he mention the word plagiarism?
Message has been deleted
Etznab
Jun 16, 2014, 9:17:47 PM6/16/14
to
On Monday, June 16, 2014 1:20:04 PM UTC-5, Kinpa wrote:
> the fact of the matter is, that plagiarism isnt actually a crime, therefore, no one can expect anyone to be liable for it at all....if one wants to speak on the terms of copyright infringement, that's fine, but DO, at the very least, call it what you actually mean by it, which happens to NOT be plagiarism at all....and, regardless of any actual answers to any of the questions presented, it IS undeniably amusing that David Lane WAS, in fact, convicted of copyright infringement, and yet Ford Johnson and so many others choose to selectively ignore that in favor of trying to lay blame on Paul Twitchell....it is what it is, but it sure IS funny either way lol, at least it is to me :o)
>
>
>
> Is Harold Klemp bound, legally speaking, to mention plagiarism? this question must FIRST be examined and answered, for otherwise the preceding question has no basis or importance whatsoever....2000 years ago when anyone wrote a thing, whether a book, story or opinion, they for the most part refused to take credit, and rather credited the writing to some other person....are these individuals also to blame for telling an untruth? how can they be held any less responsible than you are holding Harold Klemp for the instances in the works of Eckankar? it IS virtually the same thing, and while on the topic who has ever held any previous world saint liable for using teachings that did not originate from themselves, but were used anyways in the Way that they used to come by spiritual realization? who is creating these standards that are being used to hold anyone accountable for anything? this standard simply didnt exist at all before the 1960's, and by that im stating it in a much wider and more inclusive way to cover all examples, although by and large it is a creation of the internet, and the ease we NOW have of looking at and comparing stories, myths, legends, spiritual teachings/experiences, from many ages and all around the world....that HAS to be included in this standard of judging or one simply isnt being honest in doing so, selectively including convenient points of view while ignoring the inconvenient ones...
>
>
>
> In the end, anyone is left the way they started, on their own, at judging when or how Paul came by the words of Rebazar Tarzs, it IS another individual's reported experience, nothing more...take it or leave it...nothing wrong with asking questions, but if you want to do so, include ALL of the data and then report honestly....no one ever knows for a direct fact, that ANY world saint ever had the experiences they claim, that is a thing that simply CANT be proven, regardless of the individual claiming, or the one asking the questions, both have NO choice but to accept that fact as the reality of it, because nothing is ever going to change it. it is what it is.
>
>
>
> Why look for someone to lay blame upon? arent YOU, and no one else, responsible for what YOU think/feel/believe/disbelieve/accept/choose not to accept, all the way across the board? how can anyone else EVER be to blame for that? we all have free will, and we are all responsible for ourselves and the choices we make, regardless of the reasons, the blame ALWAYS comes home to roost, there is no way out of that.
>
>
>
> again, not meant to be a personal statement against you, but more of a general all inclusive one, meaning it fits for all regardless of what their point of view about PT or Eckankar, or anything else in the world might be.
In his Introduction for Fourth Printing (1985) of The Key to Eckankar, Harold Klemp referenced Rebazar Tarzs. Harold wrote: [...] Rebazar Tarzs says that the individual first has to get "the correct letter of truth" before he can live in the spirit of truth. He tells how this is done. [... .]
The Key to Eckankar section about "correct letter of truth" is one that very closely resembles the writings in Joel S. Goldsmith's book, Practicing the Presence of God - 1958 Iow, the words "correct letter of truth" appeared years before The Key to Eckankar book came out in 1968.
Some sample quotes (from a much larger section of correspondences covering over a dozen paragraphs in consecutive order) illustrating similarity between the writings of Joel S. Goldsmith and the words of Paul Twitchell and Rebazar Tarzs.
***
"Spiritual consciousness is attained through the activity of truth in consciousness. Dwelling on scriptural quotations or statements of truth helps to spiritualize thought. The more truth we read and hear, the more truth is active in our consciousness. We learn to abide in the world by putting truth into ourselves. This is the first step on the way to God."
Based on: The Key to Eckankar - Twitchell
"Spiritual consciousness is attained through the activity of truth in consciousness. Dwelling on scriptural quotations or statements of truth helps to spiritualize thought. The more truth that we read and hear, the more active is truth in our consciousness. Thus we learn to abide in the Word. This is the first step on the Way."
Based on: Practicing The Presence - Goldsmith
[Note: Goldsmith says: "Thus we learn to abide in the Word." where Eckankar says: "We learn to abide in the world ... ." Typo???]
***
"Yaubl Sacabi told me long ago, 'Let my spirit dwell in you. And so shall the SUGMAD be exalted so that you will bear the harvest of good deeds.'
"To live in this truth, to abide in the Word, is to bear the harvest of all things in the richest manner: that is, to live harmoniously in the spiritual senses. But if we forget to live in the Word, to abide in It, and let It live in us, we become as the branch of a tree that is cut off and withers away."
Based on: The Key to Eckankar - Twitchell
Jesus tells us to let "my words abide in you. ... Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit." To live in that truth, to abide in that Word, is to bear fruit richly, that is, to live harmoniously, spiritual lives. But if we forget to live in the Word, to abide in it, and let it abide in us, we become as branches that are cut off and wither. [...]
Based on: Practicing The Presence - Goldsmith
***
"How can we live in the Word if we do not know It? We must know the Truth. We must learn what the correct letter of truth is. Let us have a principle with which to work, and let us stand on this principle, until the moment comes when we feel that spiritual awareness within us is realized. Then we shall know that we have attained the spirit of truth, the consciousness of truth, which is the Word of the SUGMAD and is power. Anyone with a sufficient desire for a realization of God can achieve that realization - the grace of God will guarantee it."
Based on: The Key to Eckankar - Twitchell
[...] How can we abide in this Word if we do not know it? We must know the truth. We must learn what the correct letter of truth is. Let us have a specific principle with which to work and let us stand on that principle, until the moment comes when we feel that spiritual awareness within us, which is realization. Then we shall know that we have attained the spirit of truth, the consciousness of truth, which is the Word of God and is power. Anyone with a sufficient desire for a realization of God will guarantee it."
Based on: Practicing The Presence - Goldsmith
[Note: All illustrations here should be checked for typos.]
http://www.scribd.com/doc/218780789/82916572-Practicing-the-Presence-of-God-Joel-S-Goldsmith-1
>
>
>
> Is Harold Klemp bound, legally speaking, to mention plagiarism? this question must FIRST be examined and answered, for otherwise the preceding question has no basis or importance whatsoever....2000 years ago when anyone wrote a thing, whether a book, story or opinion, they for the most part refused to take credit, and rather credited the writing to some other person....are these individuals also to blame for telling an untruth? how can they be held any less responsible than you are holding Harold Klemp for the instances in the works of Eckankar? it IS virtually the same thing, and while on the topic who has ever held any previous world saint liable for using teachings that did not originate from themselves, but were used anyways in the Way that they used to come by spiritual realization? who is creating these standards that are being used to hold anyone accountable for anything? this standard simply didnt exist at all before the 1960's, and by that im stating it in a much wider and more inclusive way to cover all examples, although by and large it is a creation of the internet, and the ease we NOW have of looking at and comparing stories, myths, legends, spiritual teachings/experiences, from many ages and all around the world....that HAS to be included in this standard of judging or one simply isnt being honest in doing so, selectively including convenient points of view while ignoring the inconvenient ones...
>
>
>
> In the end, anyone is left the way they started, on their own, at judging when or how Paul came by the words of Rebazar Tarzs, it IS another individual's reported experience, nothing more...take it or leave it...nothing wrong with asking questions, but if you want to do so, include ALL of the data and then report honestly....no one ever knows for a direct fact, that ANY world saint ever had the experiences they claim, that is a thing that simply CANT be proven, regardless of the individual claiming, or the one asking the questions, both have NO choice but to accept that fact as the reality of it, because nothing is ever going to change it. it is what it is.
>
>
>
> Why look for someone to lay blame upon? arent YOU, and no one else, responsible for what YOU think/feel/believe/disbelieve/accept/choose not to accept, all the way across the board? how can anyone else EVER be to blame for that? we all have free will, and we are all responsible for ourselves and the choices we make, regardless of the reasons, the blame ALWAYS comes home to roost, there is no way out of that.
>
>
>
> again, not meant to be a personal statement against you, but more of a general all inclusive one, meaning it fits for all regardless of what their point of view about PT or Eckankar, or anything else in the world might be.
In his Introduction for Fourth Printing (1985) of The Key to Eckankar, Harold Klemp referenced Rebazar Tarzs. Harold wrote: [...] Rebazar Tarzs says that the individual first has to get "the correct letter of truth" before he can live in the spirit of truth. He tells how this is done. [... .]
The Key to Eckankar section about "correct letter of truth" is one that very closely resembles the writings in Joel S. Goldsmith's book, Practicing the Presence of God - 1958 Iow, the words "correct letter of truth" appeared years before The Key to Eckankar book came out in 1968.
Some sample quotes (from a much larger section of correspondences covering over a dozen paragraphs in consecutive order) illustrating similarity between the writings of Joel S. Goldsmith and the words of Paul Twitchell and Rebazar Tarzs.
***
"Spiritual consciousness is attained through the activity of truth in consciousness. Dwelling on scriptural quotations or statements of truth helps to spiritualize thought. The more truth we read and hear, the more truth is active in our consciousness. We learn to abide in the world by putting truth into ourselves. This is the first step on the way to God."
Based on: The Key to Eckankar - Twitchell
"Spiritual consciousness is attained through the activity of truth in consciousness. Dwelling on scriptural quotations or statements of truth helps to spiritualize thought. The more truth that we read and hear, the more active is truth in our consciousness. Thus we learn to abide in the Word. This is the first step on the Way."
Based on: Practicing The Presence - Goldsmith
[Note: Goldsmith says: "Thus we learn to abide in the Word." where Eckankar says: "We learn to abide in the world ... ." Typo???]
***
"Yaubl Sacabi told me long ago, 'Let my spirit dwell in you. And so shall the SUGMAD be exalted so that you will bear the harvest of good deeds.'
"To live in this truth, to abide in the Word, is to bear the harvest of all things in the richest manner: that is, to live harmoniously in the spiritual senses. But if we forget to live in the Word, to abide in It, and let It live in us, we become as the branch of a tree that is cut off and withers away."
Based on: The Key to Eckankar - Twitchell
Jesus tells us to let "my words abide in you. ... Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit." To live in that truth, to abide in that Word, is to bear fruit richly, that is, to live harmoniously, spiritual lives. But if we forget to live in the Word, to abide in it, and let it abide in us, we become as branches that are cut off and wither. [...]
Based on: Practicing The Presence - Goldsmith
***
"How can we live in the Word if we do not know It? We must know the Truth. We must learn what the correct letter of truth is. Let us have a principle with which to work, and let us stand on this principle, until the moment comes when we feel that spiritual awareness within us is realized. Then we shall know that we have attained the spirit of truth, the consciousness of truth, which is the Word of the SUGMAD and is power. Anyone with a sufficient desire for a realization of God can achieve that realization - the grace of God will guarantee it."
Based on: The Key to Eckankar - Twitchell
[...] How can we abide in this Word if we do not know it? We must know the truth. We must learn what the correct letter of truth is. Let us have a specific principle with which to work and let us stand on that principle, until the moment comes when we feel that spiritual awareness within us, which is realization. Then we shall know that we have attained the spirit of truth, the consciousness of truth, which is the Word of God and is power. Anyone with a sufficient desire for a realization of God will guarantee it."
Based on: Practicing The Presence - Goldsmith
[Note: All illustrations here should be checked for typos.]
http://www.scribd.com/doc/218780789/82916572-Practicing-the-Presence-of-God-Joel-S-Goldsmith-1
MichaelT...@yahoo.com
Jun 30, 2014, 9:48:20 PM6/30/14
to
On Sunday, June 15, 2014 4:08:52 PM UTC-7, Etznab wrote:
> "[....] 'It was while traveling with Sudar Singh in the Nuri Sarup that I met Rebazar Tarzs,' Paulji reminded me, 'and it was in the company of Rebazar Tarzs that I returned to a study of the Far Country. Later, with Gail and her spiritual guide, Dr. John Leland, I came to know Rebazar Tarzs better, and I began to leave my physical body at night to meet with him at his mud and brick hut in the Himalayas. It was a series of twelve important dialogues with Rebazar Tarzs which produced my manuscript The Far Country.'* [*Published in 1970.] [....]"
>
>
>
> [Based on: IN MY SOUL I AM FREE, by Brad Steiger (Copyright 1968?), p. 121]
>
I'd still like to know who Dr. John Leland was.
> "[....] 'It was while traveling with Sudar Singh in the Nuri Sarup that I met Rebazar Tarzs,' Paulji reminded me, 'and it was in the company of Rebazar Tarzs that I returned to a study of the Far Country. Later, with Gail and her spiritual guide, Dr. John Leland, I came to know Rebazar Tarzs better, and I began to leave my physical body at night to meet with him at his mud and brick hut in the Himalayas. It was a series of twelve important dialogues with Rebazar Tarzs which produced my manuscript The Far Country.'* [*Published in 1970.] [....]"
>
>
>
> [Based on: IN MY SOUL I AM FREE, by Brad Steiger (Copyright 1968?), p. 121]
>
Etznab
Jul 1, 2014, 10:56:37 AM7/1/14
to
Do you imagine that anybody ever asked her? I imagine they did. However, why isn't the answer available and in public domain?
I suppose that id somebody did get the answer that it might not fit with the storyline. It could also be a pseudonym, etc.
Etznab
Apr 22, 2015, 4:03:56 PM4/22/15
to
On Monday, June 16, 2014 at 1:20:04 PM UTC-5, Kinpa wrote:
> On Sunday, June 15, 2014 7:08:52 PM UTC-4, Etznab wrote:
> On Sunday, June 15, 2014 7:08:52 PM UTC-4, Etznab wrote:
> the fact of the matter is, that plagiarism isnt actually a crime, therefore, no one can expect anyone to be liable for it at all....if one wants to speak on the terms of copyright infringement, that's fine, but DO, at the very least, call it what you actually mean by it, which happens to NOT be plagiarism at all....and, regardless of any actual answers to any of the questions presented, it IS undeniably amusing that David Lane WAS, in fact, convicted of copyright infringement, and yet Ford Johnson and so many others choose to selectively ignore that in favor of trying to lay blame on Paul Twitchell....it is what it is, but it sure IS funny either way lol, at least it is to me :o)
>
> Is Harold Klemp bound, legally speaking, to mention plagiarism? this question must FIRST be examined and answered, for otherwise the preceding question has no basis or importance whatsoever....2000 years ago when anyone wrote a thing, whether a book, story or opinion, they for the most part refused to take credit, and rather credited the writing to some other person....are these individuals also to blame for telling an untruth? how can they be held any less responsible than you are holding Harold Klemp for the instances in the works of Eckankar? it IS virtually the same thing, and while on the topic who has ever held any previous world saint liable for using teachings that did not originate from themselves, but were used anyways in the Way that they used to come by spiritual realization? who is creating these standards that are being used to hold anyone accountable for anything? this standard simply didnt exist at all before the 1960's, and by that im stating it in a much wider and more inclusive way to cover all examples, although by and large it is a creation of the internet, and the ease we NOW have of looking at and comparing stories, myths, legends, spiritual teachings/experiences, from many ages and all around the world....that HAS to be included in this standard of judging or one simply isnt being honest in doing so, selectively including convenient points of view while ignoring the inconvenient ones...
>
> In the end, anyone is left the way they started, on their own, at judging when or how Paul came by the words of Rebazar Tarzs, it IS another individual's reported experience, nothing more...take it or leave it...nothing wrong with asking questions, but if you want to do so, include ALL of the data and then report honestly....no one ever knows for a direct fact, that ANY world saint ever had the experiences they claim, that is a thing that simply CANT be proven, regardless of the individual claiming, or the one asking the questions, both have NO choice but to accept that fact as the reality of it, because nothing is ever going to change it. it is what it is.
>
> Why look for someone to lay blame upon? arent YOU, and no one else, responsible for what YOU think/feel/believe/disbelieve/accept/choose not to accept, all the way across the board? how can anyone else EVER be to blame for that? we all have free will, and we are all responsible for ourselves and the choices we make, regardless of the reasons, the blame ALWAYS comes home to roost, there is no way out of that.
>
> again, not meant to be a personal statement against you, but more of a general all inclusive one, meaning it fits for all regardless of what their point of view about PT or Eckankar, or anything else in the world might be.
"the fact of the matter is, that plagiarism isnt actually a crime, therefore, no one can expect anyone to be liable for it at all"
Plagiarism isn't actually a crime?
>
> Is Harold Klemp bound, legally speaking, to mention plagiarism? this question must FIRST be examined and answered, for otherwise the preceding question has no basis or importance whatsoever....2000 years ago when anyone wrote a thing, whether a book, story or opinion, they for the most part refused to take credit, and rather credited the writing to some other person....are these individuals also to blame for telling an untruth? how can they be held any less responsible than you are holding Harold Klemp for the instances in the works of Eckankar? it IS virtually the same thing, and while on the topic who has ever held any previous world saint liable for using teachings that did not originate from themselves, but were used anyways in the Way that they used to come by spiritual realization? who is creating these standards that are being used to hold anyone accountable for anything? this standard simply didnt exist at all before the 1960's, and by that im stating it in a much wider and more inclusive way to cover all examples, although by and large it is a creation of the internet, and the ease we NOW have of looking at and comparing stories, myths, legends, spiritual teachings/experiences, from many ages and all around the world....that HAS to be included in this standard of judging or one simply isnt being honest in doing so, selectively including convenient points of view while ignoring the inconvenient ones...
>
> In the end, anyone is left the way they started, on their own, at judging when or how Paul came by the words of Rebazar Tarzs, it IS another individual's reported experience, nothing more...take it or leave it...nothing wrong with asking questions, but if you want to do so, include ALL of the data and then report honestly....no one ever knows for a direct fact, that ANY world saint ever had the experiences they claim, that is a thing that simply CANT be proven, regardless of the individual claiming, or the one asking the questions, both have NO choice but to accept that fact as the reality of it, because nothing is ever going to change it. it is what it is.
>
> Why look for someone to lay blame upon? arent YOU, and no one else, responsible for what YOU think/feel/believe/disbelieve/accept/choose not to accept, all the way across the board? how can anyone else EVER be to blame for that? we all have free will, and we are all responsible for ourselves and the choices we make, regardless of the reasons, the blame ALWAYS comes home to roost, there is no way out of that.
>
> again, not meant to be a personal statement against you, but more of a general all inclusive one, meaning it fits for all regardless of what their point of view about PT or Eckankar, or anything else in the world might be.
"the fact of the matter is, that plagiarism isnt actually a crime, therefore, no one can expect anyone to be liable for it at all"
Apparently, neither is brainwashing.
***
Is brainwashing considered as a crime ?
No, if a person is not Intelligent, she/he will be brainwashed any way, whatever it be by accepting a religion without questioning or by the media and local culture, etc. For example, doctors said vaccination is a good thing and millions of people believe on it without never check on it.
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100715015806AAieJaz
Etznab
Apr 22, 2015, 4:08:13 PM4/22/15
to
How truthful was Harold Klemp when speaking for Rebazar Tarzs in this instance?
(See quoted text)
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Etznab
Apr 27, 2015, 8:52:37 AM4/27/15
to
On Thursday, April 23, 2015 at 8:57:47 PM UTC-5, Kinpa wrote:
> On Thursday, April 23, 2015 at 11:21:59 PM UTC, Henosis Sage wrote:
> > On Friday, 24 April 2015 01:00:33 UTC+10, Kinpa wrote:
> > > On Thursday, April 23, 2015 at 11:27:26 AM UTC, Henosis Sage wrote:
> > > > THEY SEEK HIM HERE THEY SEEK HIM THERE THEY SEEK HIM EVERYWHERE ....
> > > >
> > > > I DO NOT BELIEVE KLEMP CAN UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT OF TRUTHFUL .... KINPA SURE CAN'T. MAKES SHIT UP EVERY DAY; TALKS SHIT; OCD, AND A PROVEN LIAR !!!
> > > >
> > > > WHAT A DICK WIT
> > >
> > > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? Proven liar? If that were true then you ought to have no trouble proving it again, and yet you show NO proof, as always.....typical...
> >
> >
> >
> > KINPA THE GAY JEWISH COCK SUCKER AND FRAUDULENT HUMAN BEING MAKES SHIT UP EVERY DAY;
> > TALKS SHIT; HAS OCD & JEWISH NARCISSISM, SCHIZOTYPAL PD http://psychcentral.com/disorders/schizotypal-personality-disorder-symptoms/
> > LIKE KLEMP; A PSYCHOTIC DELUSIONAL; A ANTI-SOCIAL SCHIZOPHRENIC; A FUCK WIT
> > AND IS A PROVEN LIAR !!!
> >
> > MAT SHARPE THE DUMB FUCK WHO CANNOT READ AND CANNOT THINK WHO BLOWS JR EVERY DAY ONLINE ... BECAUSE HE HAS NO OTHER FRIENDS .. AND COUCH SURFS WITH
> > RELATIVES TO AVOID HOMELESSNESS - THE GUY IS A NARCISSISTIC OBNOXIOUS GRUB
> >
> > "HI I HAVE THE MATURITY AND SANITY OF A 3 YEAR OLD ON METH AT KINDERGARTEN;
> > MY NAME IS MATT SHARPE AND I TRY TO ANNOY OTHER PEOPLE WHO SAY STUFF I DON'T
> > LIKE - SUCH AS TWITCHELL WAS A LIAR AND FRAUD AND COPYING EVERYTHING HE EVER
> > SAID ABOUT ECKANKAR BECAUSE I CAN'T DEAL WITH IT LIKE A ADULT - I AM A
> > FUCKWIT YOU SEE .... SO THEN I CALL THESE PEOPLE FUNNY NAMES LIKE SEANELLA -
> > AND IF THAT DON'T WORK THEN I CALL THEM DRUNK - OR DEFAME THEM BY FALSELY
> > CLAIMING THEY ARE CRIMINALS AND HAVE A CRIMINAL RECORD - OR THAT THEY DO DRUGS
> > - OR THAT THEY HAVE A GIRLFRIEND/WHORE CALLED PATRICIA - OR THAT THERE ARE MICE
> > INVOLVED IN THIS DIRE SAGA ABOUT AN IRRELEVANT DELUSIONAL CULT THAT CAUSES
> > SCHIZOPHRENIA AND PSYCHOSIS AND SUICIDE AND GENERAL IRRATIONAL SELF-DELUSIONS IN MEMBERS .... SUCH AS ME - MATT SHARPE THE FUCK WIT OF A.R.E. AND THE LIGHT FORCE NETWORK WHERE I PROMOTE THE INSANITY OF ECKANKAR WITH LONI HAAS http://www.lightforcenetwork.com/blogs/shabda-preceptor
> >
> > BUT WHY? BECAUSE I MATT SHARPE AM A TOTAL IMMATURE LITTLE FUCK WIT, THAT'S WHY
> >
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
>
> You're a LIAR! A hilarious liar to boot! Who has NOTHING! A joke! You're no one to call names you flaccid and drunken sock! Try again!!!!!
This is how it starts:
"Are you both still dependent on using pre-puberty females who gush all over your treats like Sean visualizes me doing?"
> On Thursday, April 23, 2015 at 11:21:59 PM UTC, Henosis Sage wrote:
> > On Friday, 24 April 2015 01:00:33 UTC+10, Kinpa wrote:
> > > On Thursday, April 23, 2015 at 11:27:26 AM UTC, Henosis Sage wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I DO NOT BELIEVE KLEMP CAN UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT OF TRUTHFUL .... KINPA SURE CAN'T. MAKES SHIT UP EVERY DAY; TALKS SHIT; OCD, AND A PROVEN LIAR !!!
> > > >
> > > > WHAT A DICK WIT
> > >
> > > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? Proven liar? If that were true then you ought to have no trouble proving it again, and yet you show NO proof, as always.....typical...
> >
> >
> >
> > KINPA THE GAY JEWISH COCK SUCKER AND FRAUDULENT HUMAN BEING MAKES SHIT UP EVERY DAY;
> > TALKS SHIT; HAS OCD & JEWISH NARCISSISM, SCHIZOTYPAL PD http://psychcentral.com/disorders/schizotypal-personality-disorder-symptoms/
> > LIKE KLEMP; A PSYCHOTIC DELUSIONAL; A ANTI-SOCIAL SCHIZOPHRENIC; A FUCK WIT
> > AND IS A PROVEN LIAR !!!
> >
> > MAT SHARPE THE DUMB FUCK WHO CANNOT READ AND CANNOT THINK WHO BLOWS JR EVERY DAY ONLINE ... BECAUSE HE HAS NO OTHER FRIENDS .. AND COUCH SURFS WITH
> > RELATIVES TO AVOID HOMELESSNESS - THE GUY IS A NARCISSISTIC OBNOXIOUS GRUB
> >
> > "HI I HAVE THE MATURITY AND SANITY OF A 3 YEAR OLD ON METH AT KINDERGARTEN;
> > MY NAME IS MATT SHARPE AND I TRY TO ANNOY OTHER PEOPLE WHO SAY STUFF I DON'T
> > LIKE - SUCH AS TWITCHELL WAS A LIAR AND FRAUD AND COPYING EVERYTHING HE EVER
> > SAID ABOUT ECKANKAR BECAUSE I CAN'T DEAL WITH IT LIKE A ADULT - I AM A
> > FUCKWIT YOU SEE .... SO THEN I CALL THESE PEOPLE FUNNY NAMES LIKE SEANELLA -
> > AND IF THAT DON'T WORK THEN I CALL THEM DRUNK - OR DEFAME THEM BY FALSELY
> > CLAIMING THEY ARE CRIMINALS AND HAVE A CRIMINAL RECORD - OR THAT THEY DO DRUGS
> > - OR THAT THEY HAVE A GIRLFRIEND/WHORE CALLED PATRICIA - OR THAT THERE ARE MICE
> > INVOLVED IN THIS DIRE SAGA ABOUT AN IRRELEVANT DELUSIONAL CULT THAT CAUSES
> > SCHIZOPHRENIA AND PSYCHOSIS AND SUICIDE AND GENERAL IRRATIONAL SELF-DELUSIONS IN MEMBERS .... SUCH AS ME - MATT SHARPE THE FUCK WIT OF A.R.E. AND THE LIGHT FORCE NETWORK WHERE I PROMOTE THE INSANITY OF ECKANKAR WITH LONI HAAS http://www.lightforcenetwork.com/blogs/shabda-preceptor
> >
> > BUT WHY? BECAUSE I MATT SHARPE AM A TOTAL IMMATURE LITTLE FUCK WIT, THAT'S WHY
> >
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
> > Have you even a shred of proof about this seanella??????? EVERYWHERE FUCK WIT
>
> You're a LIAR! A hilarious liar to boot! Who has NOTHING! A joke! You're no one to call names you flaccid and drunken sock! Try again!!!!!
This is how it starts:
"Are you both still dependent on using pre-puberty females who gush all over your treats like Sean visualizes me doing?"
Etznab
Apr 27, 2015, 8:53:31 AM4/27/15
to
Etznab
Apr 27, 2015, 8:54:00 AM4/27/15
to
Etznab
Apr 27, 2015, 8:54:33 AM4/27/15
to
Why this is marked as abuse? It has been marked as abuse.
Report not abuse
Etznab
Apr 27, 2015, 8:54:56 AM4/27/15
to
Why this is marked as abuse? It has been marked as abuse.
Report not abuse
On Thursday, April 23, 2015 at 11:02:08 PM UTC-5, Kinpa wrote:
> On Friday, April 24, 2015 at 3:14:19 AM UTC, Henosis Sage wrote:
> > FUCK OFF!
>
> MAKE ME!
"MAKE ME!"
> On Friday, April 24, 2015 at 3:14:19 AM UTC, Henosis Sage wrote:
> > On Friday, 24 April 2015 11:57:47 UTC+10, Kinpa wrote:
> > > On Thursday, April 23, 2015 at 11:21:59 PM UTC, Henosis Sage wrote:
> > > > On Friday, 24 April 2015 01:00:33 UTC+10, Kinpa wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, April 23, 2015 at 11:27:26 AM UTC, Henosis Sage wrote:
> > > On Thursday, April 23, 2015 at 11:21:59 PM UTC, Henosis Sage wrote:
> > > > On Friday, 24 April 2015 01:00:33 UTC+10, Kinpa wrote:
> > > > > On Thursday, April 23, 2015 at 11:27:26 AM UTC, Henosis Sage wrote:
>
> MAKE ME!
"MAKE ME!"
Etznab
May 25, 2015, 10:14:35 AM5/25/15
to
Etznab
May 25, 2015, 10:17:56 AM5/25/15
to
On Monday, June 16, 2014 at 8:17:47 PM UTC-5, Etznab wrote:
Message has been deleted
Etznab
May 25, 2015, 10:25:02 AM5/25/15
to
On Monday, May 25, 2015 at 9:17:59 AM UTC-5, Kinpa wrote:
> It means that Paul Twitchell plagiarised, and that is ALL it means, unless you can prove that it means any other thing, which thus far you have been unable to do...It's a very simple matter...
And when Harold spoke for Rebazar Tarzs?
And when Kinpa spoke for Rebazar Tarzs?
That's more than plagiarism. And also more than plagiarism when Paul spoke for Rebazar Tarzs; and all the other self-made gurus with their own websites also speaking for Rebazar Tarzs.
This is more than simply plagiarism.
And when Harold spoke for Rebazar Tarzs?
And when Kinpa spoke for Rebazar Tarzs?
That's more than plagiarism. And also more than plagiarism when Paul spoke for Rebazar Tarzs; and all the other self-made gurus with their own websites also speaking for Rebazar Tarzs.
This is more than simply plagiarism.
Message has been deleted
Etznab
May 25, 2015, 3:00:59 PM5/25/15
to
On Monday, May 25, 2015 at 11:08:59 AM UTC-5, Kinpa wrote:
> No, it isn't. It is a completely different thing than plagiarism. The trouble you're having, is that you refuse to believe it possible that any such individual exists, however, you are still unable to prove that as a fact. Therefore it is merely YOUR assumption, a thing that can NEVER be taken as fact.
>
> If others speak to him, that is of course merely a claim, and one you have already chosen to refuse, however, your refusal is not proof of anything, it is simply a choice you have made. Each time you speak about plagiarism proving that anyone, much less any ECK Master, does not exist, you are speaking a lie because you simply have no evidence of this conclusion.
>
> Why does this disturb you that much? No one has tried to reconvert you back to Eckankar...I have never told you that you have no right to believe what you believe. Instead I make the distinction that it is ONLY your belief, it is NOT factual. You seem either unable, or unwilling to distinguish between assumptions and provable facts, and there is a tremendously huge difference between the two.
>
> Claiming that ECKists are fundamentalists for disagreeing is also not honest. You are just as much a fundamentalist insisting on getting people to follow YOUR party line, when you have no evidence that this point of view is accurate. You certainly CAN make the stretch of assumption between the two, but as I keep saying, if this were in court, your testimony would not win anything because you are able to prove nothing other than plagiarism. Everything you have beyond that is assumption. And why the double standard? You can't prove a negative unless it is a negative about Eckankar? Seriously? Not willing to play by your own rules? Why is this?
Maybe you should not speak about Rebazar Tarzs as being real unless you can prove that he is real?
See?
Strip away the plagiarisms and pull them from the mouth of Rebazar Tarzs then what do you have left? It's like the puppet without someone to move his mouth!
But I saw that you, Harold and others were like so attached to the character that it's like you picked up the puppet and start pretending to animate him. Is this on account of being attached to believing what Paul Twitchell said? Or on account of some form of brainwashing? or inability to admit you were fooled and the ideal died? but need imagination to save you by creating another R.T. for yourself?
Seriously, who is going to support the idea of some Tibetan Lama over 500 years old living in the Himalayas that told Paul Twitchell what to write in the Eckankar books? Especially now, after so much of what many people (Eckankar members and Eckankar leaders included) have come to learn were like plagiarisms said to come from R.T.?
Who are we fooling here? Mindless idiots who can't think for themselves? Programmed robots, perhaps?
In spite of the discoveries that two so-called Godmen now (Darwin Gross and Harold Klemp) have come to discover (just like everybody else) there is still this drive to make R.T. real by speaking for him? Like by telling stories and then alleging he is real based on what other people said, or wrote?
One has to prove that R.T. exists, otherwise the existence can only be fairly qualified as a possibility. It is not a proven fact. It should be clarified as not a proven fact.
Harold Klemp (in so many words) had it the Vairagi Masters supported him in the removal of Darwin Gross from Eckankar. Darwin had it that Eck Masters supported the idea of having Harold removed! (from his leadership position). Can we agree now on the danger and insanity of incorporating imaginary characters into a religion where the characters are not the ones doing the speaking? but where others are doing the speaking for them? Including when you tried to speak for Rebazar Tarzs about me? and then said everything you said about him was true?
I see the danger and insanity of animating imaginary characters that way and so am not teaching people Rebazar Tarzs is over 500 years old, hanging out in the Himalayas next door to Babaji and then basing this on what other people said, or wrote.
You can teach about how you "know" Rebazar Tarzs is real and that this is your choice, but I suggest you also face the fact not everybody else believes the same thing about Rebazar Tarzs as you. Not even everybody in Eckankar. And then you have to try harder to be a mature adult and communicate to people with more respect without swearing at them, or using the same tactics you see after Sean intentionally holds up a mirror when you go about to speaking naive jibbersish and insults at him.
At this point I am not telling other people Rebazar Tarzs is real and that other of the masters are in fact real because this is what somebody else said, or wrote. Not when I have personally read paragraph after paragraph of multiple authors' works appear to (according to Paul Twitchell and Eckankar) come from the mouths of characters who don't even have photographs to prove their existence! No photographs and evidently no DNA either!
(Should it not be easy to get some 500+-year-old DNA from all the places where Rebazar Tarzs has been?)
Maybe you, or Harold can go ask your Rebazar Tarzs' for some DNA? (See how silly that sounds?) But hey! You probably need to make an excuse to detract away from that possibility too if you can't come up with the goods.
Here is something to consider. Do you even now know the number of websites and people using Rebazar Tarzs for their own ends? using this "character" to create more pseudo history and religion? If you've followed this group then there is probably knowledge of some. However, How can you tell how many there really are? How many threats to your Kinpankar?
See what I mean here? And does it even matter to you how this same pattern appears throughout history to be the root of all evil? This thing that is happening even now with every piece of pseudo history and religion you regurgitate here on this forum? This should not read as complicated, nor hard to understand. And of course it should not be angering, or insulting because we already know how many times you claimed never to get angry. Besides that, the criticism was directed at pseudo history and religion and not at the fact you want to serve it here.
>
> If others speak to him, that is of course merely a claim, and one you have already chosen to refuse, however, your refusal is not proof of anything, it is simply a choice you have made. Each time you speak about plagiarism proving that anyone, much less any ECK Master, does not exist, you are speaking a lie because you simply have no evidence of this conclusion.
>
> Why does this disturb you that much? No one has tried to reconvert you back to Eckankar...I have never told you that you have no right to believe what you believe. Instead I make the distinction that it is ONLY your belief, it is NOT factual. You seem either unable, or unwilling to distinguish between assumptions and provable facts, and there is a tremendously huge difference between the two.
>
> Claiming that ECKists are fundamentalists for disagreeing is also not honest. You are just as much a fundamentalist insisting on getting people to follow YOUR party line, when you have no evidence that this point of view is accurate. You certainly CAN make the stretch of assumption between the two, but as I keep saying, if this were in court, your testimony would not win anything because you are able to prove nothing other than plagiarism. Everything you have beyond that is assumption. And why the double standard? You can't prove a negative unless it is a negative about Eckankar? Seriously? Not willing to play by your own rules? Why is this?
Maybe you should not speak about Rebazar Tarzs as being real unless you can prove that he is real?
See?
Strip away the plagiarisms and pull them from the mouth of Rebazar Tarzs then what do you have left? It's like the puppet without someone to move his mouth!
But I saw that you, Harold and others were like so attached to the character that it's like you picked up the puppet and start pretending to animate him. Is this on account of being attached to believing what Paul Twitchell said? Or on account of some form of brainwashing? or inability to admit you were fooled and the ideal died? but need imagination to save you by creating another R.T. for yourself?
Seriously, who is going to support the idea of some Tibetan Lama over 500 years old living in the Himalayas that told Paul Twitchell what to write in the Eckankar books? Especially now, after so much of what many people (Eckankar members and Eckankar leaders included) have come to learn were like plagiarisms said to come from R.T.?
Who are we fooling here? Mindless idiots who can't think for themselves? Programmed robots, perhaps?
In spite of the discoveries that two so-called Godmen now (Darwin Gross and Harold Klemp) have come to discover (just like everybody else) there is still this drive to make R.T. real by speaking for him? Like by telling stories and then alleging he is real based on what other people said, or wrote?
One has to prove that R.T. exists, otherwise the existence can only be fairly qualified as a possibility. It is not a proven fact. It should be clarified as not a proven fact.
Harold Klemp (in so many words) had it the Vairagi Masters supported him in the removal of Darwin Gross from Eckankar. Darwin had it that Eck Masters supported the idea of having Harold removed! (from his leadership position). Can we agree now on the danger and insanity of incorporating imaginary characters into a religion where the characters are not the ones doing the speaking? but where others are doing the speaking for them? Including when you tried to speak for Rebazar Tarzs about me? and then said everything you said about him was true?
I see the danger and insanity of animating imaginary characters that way and so am not teaching people Rebazar Tarzs is over 500 years old, hanging out in the Himalayas next door to Babaji and then basing this on what other people said, or wrote.
You can teach about how you "know" Rebazar Tarzs is real and that this is your choice, but I suggest you also face the fact not everybody else believes the same thing about Rebazar Tarzs as you. Not even everybody in Eckankar. And then you have to try harder to be a mature adult and communicate to people with more respect without swearing at them, or using the same tactics you see after Sean intentionally holds up a mirror when you go about to speaking naive jibbersish and insults at him.
At this point I am not telling other people Rebazar Tarzs is real and that other of the masters are in fact real because this is what somebody else said, or wrote. Not when I have personally read paragraph after paragraph of multiple authors' works appear to (according to Paul Twitchell and Eckankar) come from the mouths of characters who don't even have photographs to prove their existence! No photographs and evidently no DNA either!
(Should it not be easy to get some 500+-year-old DNA from all the places where Rebazar Tarzs has been?)
Maybe you, or Harold can go ask your Rebazar Tarzs' for some DNA? (See how silly that sounds?) But hey! You probably need to make an excuse to detract away from that possibility too if you can't come up with the goods.
Here is something to consider. Do you even now know the number of websites and people using Rebazar Tarzs for their own ends? using this "character" to create more pseudo history and religion? If you've followed this group then there is probably knowledge of some. However, How can you tell how many there really are? How many threats to your Kinpankar?
See what I mean here? And does it even matter to you how this same pattern appears throughout history to be the root of all evil? This thing that is happening even now with every piece of pseudo history and religion you regurgitate here on this forum? This should not read as complicated, nor hard to understand. And of course it should not be angering, or insulting because we already know how many times you claimed never to get angry. Besides that, the criticism was directed at pseudo history and religion and not at the fact you want to serve it here.
Message has been deleted
Henosis Sage
May 26, 2015, 3:10:53 AM5/26/15
to
On Tuesday, 26 May 2015 05:38:20 UTC+10, Kinpa wrote:
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Double standard...you speak about Rebazar Tarzs being fictional when you have NEVER been able to prove THAT! You simply get no option of swerving anyone else's opinion or experiences...anyone CAN speak of THEIR experiences if they want to, and despite YOU receiving no proof that he is real, you simply have NO right to demand that anyone not speak of him as being real until they have proven it! DEAL with it! LOL
> Is it? I disagree with you, what of it???
> YOU completely assume its a puppet, and yet you stand there demanding that I admit that it IS a puppet, yet you have never done anything to prove that this is the case, this exemplifies YOUR prejudiced point of view! No one ever insisted that you accept his existence, in fact, I told you that I dont care what you choose to believe! Why this switch and change bit? You are avoiding the actual fact that plagiarism does NOT address whether or not he exists!
> What difference does this make to you? is anyone forcing you to believe anything? Then why does it bother you so much that some choose not to agree with you? THAT is YOUR weakness, not anyone else's!
> I am not fooling anyone, who are YOU fooling???
> You cannot prove that either! Here you go again, like the fundamentalist that you are, insisting that everyone agree with YOUR opinions, without one shred of proof! STOP IT! IT is amateurish!
> Why does anyone have to prove that? Because YOU demand it? You silly boy, you value YOUR opinion overly much, the thing is, that no one else does! What do you not understand about that! Who do you think that you are, that you are THAT important to anyone that you deserve to have ANYTHING proven to you? Your hubris is amazing! How do you sleep at night??? YOU choose to discredit the experinces of others, though they claim them to be real, you dont have to believe those, but you also dont get to demand that anyone else accept them as being false because you cant prove that they are!
> I never spoke for Rebazar Tarzs about you, once again you have lost the reality of what was said, perhaps you ought to re-read it again...
> There is no danger to you, so what is it that you are ranting about? ECKists are not afraid to have you thinking they are crazy! Once again your ego knows no bounds! It is both silly and hilarious how you decide that you get to speak for the world against Eckankar and ECKists! You may want proof, but NO ONE owes you ANY! DEAL with that! No one owes you a thing!
> Oh stop it Richie, your buddy seanella swore and insulted and name called first, so stop ignoring that and acting as if I started that mess, it simply isnt true.....I i CAN teach about what I know, without quotation marks, to the people that literally ASK me too, and I do NOT need YOUR approval, but it IS hilarious that you think I do....do not flatter yourself sonny boy! I have NEVER said that you, or anyone should believe what I know, get your facts straight, these inaccuracies will not work! The people at my site CAN ask me to teach them whatever they would like, just as they can also have direct experiences with these "fictional" Masters, you get no say in the matter, and trust me, i care not one bit how differently you "believe", I choose not to work with belief at any stage, it has no place in my life, regardless of whether or not you agree.
> That is your choice, but not everyone in the woprlkd agrees with you either! Get over that already, you simply don't get a choice in it, that choice belongs to each individual. but here again is your ridiculing of others religions, and this IS religious persecution...be forewarned! There is NO law, anywhere in the world that staes photgraphs or DNA must be available for an entity to v=be considered both real, and a saint, this is simply YOUR problem with Eckankar, but Eckankar cares not, you made YOUR choice, now the choices of other folks belongs only to them, not to you!
> Why dont YOU go ask for some?? Despite the fact that if anyone provided you any, you would claim it wasnt real or wasnt his, just as if he actually physically showed up at a seminar, you would also claim it was an actor that was hired!
> There is no Kinpakar, however, that is also religious persecution under Federal mandates!
> The root of ALL evil? You cannot be serious! Can you prove that I regurgitate pseudohistory? Or is that simply your opinion? If it is, I dont see how I am bound by it....It is fine if you want to complain about it, but I dont have to abide by it...
>
> Nice of you to make vast assumptions..you might call it attached, however, that simply is NOT the only possibility, but of course you can't admit the other ones....notice any burning today? Either of you? Is that pseudohistory? Or is it karma??
----------------
Narcissistic Personality Disorder Symptoms By Psych Central Staff
Narcissistic Personality Disorder is characterized by a long-standing pattern of grandiosity (either in fantasy or actual behavior), an overwhelming need for admiration, and usually a complete lack of empathy toward others. People with this disorder often believe they are of primary importance in everybody's life or to anyone they meet. While this pattern of behavior may be appropriate for a king in 16th Century England, it is generally considered inappropriate for most ordinary people today.
People with narcissistic personality disorder often display snobbish, disdainful, or patronizing attitudes. For example, an individual with this disorder may complain about a clumsy waiter's "rudeness" or "stupidity" or conclude a medical evaluation with a condescending evaluation of the physician.
In laypeople terms, someone with this disorder may be described simply as a "narcissist" or as someone with "narcissism." Both of these terms generally refer to someone with narcissistic personality disorder.
A personality disorder is an enduring pattern of inner experience and behavior that deviates from the norm of the individual's culture. The pattern is seen in two or more of the following areas: cognition; affect; interpersonal functioning; or impulse control. The enduring pattern is inflexible and pervasive across a broad range of personal and social situations.
http://psychcentral.com/disorders/narcissistic-personality-disorder-symptoms/
RE: "....but you ARE a criminal so it is well known that you are active with
many illegal pursuits..."
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/JjM1TNIcPIw/xcbZPUoWVNsJ
RE: "You have had two Yale professors looking in on this, and they shake their
heads at the delusion you both insist upon! Thanks SO much for this
neverending ammunition to use against you both!"
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/wKi6bnHz8G4/OmlPX6VXjm0J
RE: "Every person that has read his rants here in the last 3 days asks if he is gay
LOL...It certainly seems as if he is, regardless of his words!"
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/UjLPCf47M_w/2fdntHskUCcJ
RE: "I am not the insane on, YOU are, and you continually prove this daily!
Keep going seanella! We're all watching!"
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/NGpI3f7axKY/ZNtfi_zVmycJ
RE: "How about your poltergeist???"
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/c5wLh-LbL3E/W2IhyME6z_8J
RE: ".....I can keep this up for years, I have absolutely NO problem with it,
and this is why I so do NOT care about your opinions or beliefs, they
are negligible at best! Anything else to say seanella??? "
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/wKi6bnHz8G4/r7u0tx-GJqwJ
Well, yes, I do have something to say:
Psychopathy - being the quintessential manifestation of the path of non-Being,
Entropy, Destruction, and Evil in Third Density, that is, the level of humanity. As
Psychopathy represents the epitome of human Evil, psychopaths may properly be
defined as disguised and hidden predators living among and working against the rest of
unsuspecting humanity. Psychopaths utterly lack conscience and feel no guilt or
remorse for their actions, no matter how heinous or revolting.
-----------
One of the most important symptoms of pathological narcissism (the Narcissistic Personality Disorder) is grandiosity. Grandiose fantasies (megalomaniac delusions of grandeur) permeate every aspect of the narcissist's personality. They are the reason that the narcissist feels entitled to special treatment which is typically incommensurate with his real accomplishments. The Grandiosity Gap is the abyss between the narcissist's self-image (as reified by his False Self) and reality.
When Narcissistic Supply is deficient, the narcissist de-compensates and acts out in a variety of ways. Narcissists often experience psychotic micro-episodes during therapy and when they suffer narcissistic injuries in a life crisis. But can the narcissist "go over the edge"? Do narcissists ever become psychotic?
Some terminology first:
The narrowest definition of psychosis, according to the DSM-IV-TR, is "restricted to delusions or prominent hallucinations, with the hallucinations occurring in the absence of insight into their pathological nature".
And what are delusions and hallucinations?
A delusion is "a false belief based on incorrect inference about external reality that is firmly sustained despite what almost everyone else believes and despite what constitutes incontrovertible and obvious proof or evidence to the contrary".
A hallucination is a "sensory perception that has the compelling sense of reality of a true perception but that occurs without external stimulation of the relevant sensory organ".
Granted, the narcissist's hold on reality is tenuous (narcissists sometimes fail the reality test). Admittedly, narcissists often seem to believe in their own confabulations. They are unaware of the pathological nature and origin of their self-delusions and are, thus, technically delusional (though they rarely suffer from hallucinations, disorganised speech, or disorganised or catatonic behaviour). In the strictest sense of the word, narcissists appear to be psychotic.
http://samvak.tripod.com/narcissistpsychotic.html
> Double standard...you speak about Rebazar Tarzs being fictional when you have NEVER been able to prove THAT! You simply get no option of swerving anyone else's opinion or experiences...anyone CAN speak of THEIR experiences if they want to, and despite YOU receiving no proof that he is real, you simply have NO right to demand that anyone not speak of him as being real until they have proven it! DEAL with it! LOL
>
>
> > Strip away the plagiarisms and pull them from the mouth of Rebazar Tarzs then what do you have left? It's like the puppet without someone to move his mouth!
> >-----------------------------------------------------------
>
> > Strip away the plagiarisms and pull them from the mouth of Rebazar Tarzs then what do you have left? It's like the puppet without someone to move his mouth!
> Is it? I disagree with you, what of it???
>
>
> > But I saw that you, Harold and others were like so attached to the character that it's like you picked up the puppet and start pretending to animate him. Is this on account of being attached to believing what Paul Twitchell said? Or on account of some form of brainwashing? or inability to admit you were fooled and the ideal died? but need imagination to save you by creating another R.T. for yourself?
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > But I saw that you, Harold and others were like so attached to the character that it's like you picked up the puppet and start pretending to animate him. Is this on account of being attached to believing what Paul Twitchell said? Or on account of some form of brainwashing? or inability to admit you were fooled and the ideal died? but need imagination to save you by creating another R.T. for yourself?
> YOU completely assume its a puppet, and yet you stand there demanding that I admit that it IS a puppet, yet you have never done anything to prove that this is the case, this exemplifies YOUR prejudiced point of view! No one ever insisted that you accept his existence, in fact, I told you that I dont care what you choose to believe! Why this switch and change bit? You are avoiding the actual fact that plagiarism does NOT address whether or not he exists!
>
>
> > Seriously, who is going to support the idea of some Tibetan Lama over 500 years old living in the Himalayas that told Paul Twitchell what to write in the Eckankar books? Especially now, after so much of what many people (Eckankar members and Eckankar leaders included) have come to learn were like plagiarisms said to come from R.T.?
> >------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > Seriously, who is going to support the idea of some Tibetan Lama over 500 years old living in the Himalayas that told Paul Twitchell what to write in the Eckankar books? Especially now, after so much of what many people (Eckankar members and Eckankar leaders included) have come to learn were like plagiarisms said to come from R.T.?
> What difference does this make to you? is anyone forcing you to believe anything? Then why does it bother you so much that some choose not to agree with you? THAT is YOUR weakness, not anyone else's!
>
>
>
> > Who are we fooling here? Mindless idiots who can't think for themselves? Programmed robots, perhaps?
> >----------------------------------------------------
>
>
> > Who are we fooling here? Mindless idiots who can't think for themselves? Programmed robots, perhaps?
> I am not fooling anyone, who are YOU fooling???
>
>
>
> > In spite of the discoveries that two so-called Godmen now (Darwin Gross and Harold Klemp) have come to discover (just like everybody else) there is still this drive to make R.T. real by speaking for him? Like by telling stories and then alleging he is real based on what other people said, or wrote?
> > ---------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> > In spite of the discoveries that two so-called Godmen now (Darwin Gross and Harold Klemp) have come to discover (just like everybody else) there is still this drive to make R.T. real by speaking for him? Like by telling stories and then alleging he is real based on what other people said, or wrote?
> You cannot prove that either! Here you go again, like the fundamentalist that you are, insisting that everyone agree with YOUR opinions, without one shred of proof! STOP IT! IT is amateurish!
>
>
>
> > One has to prove that R.T. exists, otherwise the existence can only be fairly qualified as a possibility. It is not a proven fact. It should be clarified as not a proven fact.
> >---------------------------------------------------
>
>
> > One has to prove that R.T. exists, otherwise the existence can only be fairly qualified as a possibility. It is not a proven fact. It should be clarified as not a proven fact.
> Why does anyone have to prove that? Because YOU demand it? You silly boy, you value YOUR opinion overly much, the thing is, that no one else does! What do you not understand about that! Who do you think that you are, that you are THAT important to anyone that you deserve to have ANYTHING proven to you? Your hubris is amazing! How do you sleep at night??? YOU choose to discredit the experinces of others, though they claim them to be real, you dont have to believe those, but you also dont get to demand that anyone else accept them as being false because you cant prove that they are!
>
>
> > Harold Klemp (in so many words) had it the Vairagi Masters supported him in the removal of Darwin Gross from Eckankar. Darwin had it that Eck Masters supported the idea of having Harold removed! (from his leadership position). Can we agree now on the danger and insanity of incorporating imaginary characters into a religion where the characters are not the ones doing the speaking? but where others are doing the speaking for them? Including when you tried to speak for Rebazar Tarzs about me? and then said everything you said about him was true?
> >-------------------------------------------------
>
> > Harold Klemp (in so many words) had it the Vairagi Masters supported him in the removal of Darwin Gross from Eckankar. Darwin had it that Eck Masters supported the idea of having Harold removed! (from his leadership position). Can we agree now on the danger and insanity of incorporating imaginary characters into a religion where the characters are not the ones doing the speaking? but where others are doing the speaking for them? Including when you tried to speak for Rebazar Tarzs about me? and then said everything you said about him was true?
> I never spoke for Rebazar Tarzs about you, once again you have lost the reality of what was said, perhaps you ought to re-read it again...
>
>
> > I see the danger and insanity of animating imaginary characters that way and so am not teaching people Rebazar Tarzs is over 500 years old, hanging out in the Himalayas next door to Babaji and then basing this on what other people said, or wrote.
> >----------------------------------------------------
>
> > I see the danger and insanity of animating imaginary characters that way and so am not teaching people Rebazar Tarzs is over 500 years old, hanging out in the Himalayas next door to Babaji and then basing this on what other people said, or wrote.
> There is no danger to you, so what is it that you are ranting about? ECKists are not afraid to have you thinking they are crazy! Once again your ego knows no bounds! It is both silly and hilarious how you decide that you get to speak for the world against Eckankar and ECKists! You may want proof, but NO ONE owes you ANY! DEAL with that! No one owes you a thing!
>
>
>
> > You can teach about how you "know" Rebazar Tarzs is real and that this is your choice, but I suggest you also face the fact not everybody else believes the same thing about Rebazar Tarzs as you. Not even everybody in Eckankar. And then you have to try harder to be a mature adult and communicate to people with more respect without swearing at them, or using the same tactics you see after Sean intentionally holds up a mirror when you go about to speaking naive jibbersish and insults at him.
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> > You can teach about how you "know" Rebazar Tarzs is real and that this is your choice, but I suggest you also face the fact not everybody else believes the same thing about Rebazar Tarzs as you. Not even everybody in Eckankar. And then you have to try harder to be a mature adult and communicate to people with more respect without swearing at them, or using the same tactics you see after Sean intentionally holds up a mirror when you go about to speaking naive jibbersish and insults at him.
> Oh stop it Richie, your buddy seanella swore and insulted and name called first, so stop ignoring that and acting as if I started that mess, it simply isnt true.....I i CAN teach about what I know, without quotation marks, to the people that literally ASK me too, and I do NOT need YOUR approval, but it IS hilarious that you think I do....do not flatter yourself sonny boy! I have NEVER said that you, or anyone should believe what I know, get your facts straight, these inaccuracies will not work! The people at my site CAN ask me to teach them whatever they would like, just as they can also have direct experiences with these "fictional" Masters, you get no say in the matter, and trust me, i care not one bit how differently you "believe", I choose not to work with belief at any stage, it has no place in my life, regardless of whether or not you agree.
>
>
> > At this point I am not telling other people Rebazar Tarzs is real and that other of the masters are in fact real because this is what somebody else said, or wrote. Not when I have personally read paragraph after paragraph of multiple authors' works appear to (according to Paul Twitchell and Eckankar) come from the mouths of characters who don't even have photographs to prove their existence! No photographs and evidently no DNA either!
> >--------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > At this point I am not telling other people Rebazar Tarzs is real and that other of the masters are in fact real because this is what somebody else said, or wrote. Not when I have personally read paragraph after paragraph of multiple authors' works appear to (according to Paul Twitchell and Eckankar) come from the mouths of characters who don't even have photographs to prove their existence! No photographs and evidently no DNA either!
> That is your choice, but not everyone in the woprlkd agrees with you either! Get over that already, you simply don't get a choice in it, that choice belongs to each individual. but here again is your ridiculing of others religions, and this IS religious persecution...be forewarned! There is NO law, anywhere in the world that staes photgraphs or DNA must be available for an entity to v=be considered both real, and a saint, this is simply YOUR problem with Eckankar, but Eckankar cares not, you made YOUR choice, now the choices of other folks belongs only to them, not to you!
>
>
>
> > (Should it not be easy to get some 500+-year-old DNA from all the places where Rebazar Tarzs has been?)
> >
> > Maybe you, or Harold can go ask your Rebazar Tarzs' for some DNA? (See how silly that sounds?) But hey! You probably need to make an excuse to detract away from that possibility too if you can't come up with the goods.
> >----------------------------------------
>
>
> > (Should it not be easy to get some 500+-year-old DNA from all the places where Rebazar Tarzs has been?)
> >
> > Maybe you, or Harold can go ask your Rebazar Tarzs' for some DNA? (See how silly that sounds?) But hey! You probably need to make an excuse to detract away from that possibility too if you can't come up with the goods.
> Why dont YOU go ask for some?? Despite the fact that if anyone provided you any, you would claim it wasnt real or wasnt his, just as if he actually physically showed up at a seminar, you would also claim it was an actor that was hired!
>
>
> > Here is something to consider. Do you even now know the number of websites and people using Rebazar Tarzs for their own ends? using this "character" to create more pseudo history and religion? If you've followed this group then there is probably knowledge of some. However, How can you tell how many there really are? How many threats to your Kinpankar?
> > -----------------------------------------------------
>
> > Here is something to consider. Do you even now know the number of websites and people using Rebazar Tarzs for their own ends? using this "character" to create more pseudo history and religion? If you've followed this group then there is probably knowledge of some. However, How can you tell how many there really are? How many threats to your Kinpankar?
> There is no Kinpakar, however, that is also religious persecution under Federal mandates!
>
>
> > See what I mean here? And does it even matter to you how this same pattern appears throughout history to be the root of all evil? This thing that is happening even now with every piece of pseudo history and religion you regurgitate here on this forum? This should not read as complicated, nor hard to understand. And of course it should not be angering, or insulting because we already know how many times you claimed never to get angry. Besides that, the criticism was directed at pseudo history and religion and not at the fact you want to serve it here.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > See what I mean here? And does it even matter to you how this same pattern appears throughout history to be the root of all evil? This thing that is happening even now with every piece of pseudo history and religion you regurgitate here on this forum? This should not read as complicated, nor hard to understand. And of course it should not be angering, or insulting because we already know how many times you claimed never to get angry. Besides that, the criticism was directed at pseudo history and religion and not at the fact you want to serve it here.
> The root of ALL evil? You cannot be serious! Can you prove that I regurgitate pseudohistory? Or is that simply your opinion? If it is, I dont see how I am bound by it....It is fine if you want to complain about it, but I dont have to abide by it...
>
> Nice of you to make vast assumptions..you might call it attached, however, that simply is NOT the only possibility, but of course you can't admit the other ones....notice any burning today? Either of you? Is that pseudohistory? Or is it karma??
----------------
Narcissistic Personality Disorder Symptoms By Psych Central Staff
Narcissistic Personality Disorder is characterized by a long-standing pattern of grandiosity (either in fantasy or actual behavior), an overwhelming need for admiration, and usually a complete lack of empathy toward others. People with this disorder often believe they are of primary importance in everybody's life or to anyone they meet. While this pattern of behavior may be appropriate for a king in 16th Century England, it is generally considered inappropriate for most ordinary people today.
People with narcissistic personality disorder often display snobbish, disdainful, or patronizing attitudes. For example, an individual with this disorder may complain about a clumsy waiter's "rudeness" or "stupidity" or conclude a medical evaluation with a condescending evaluation of the physician.
In laypeople terms, someone with this disorder may be described simply as a "narcissist" or as someone with "narcissism." Both of these terms generally refer to someone with narcissistic personality disorder.
A personality disorder is an enduring pattern of inner experience and behavior that deviates from the norm of the individual's culture. The pattern is seen in two or more of the following areas: cognition; affect; interpersonal functioning; or impulse control. The enduring pattern is inflexible and pervasive across a broad range of personal and social situations.
http://psychcentral.com/disorders/narcissistic-personality-disorder-symptoms/
RE: "....but you ARE a criminal so it is well known that you are active with
many illegal pursuits..."
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/JjM1TNIcPIw/xcbZPUoWVNsJ
RE: "You have had two Yale professors looking in on this, and they shake their
heads at the delusion you both insist upon! Thanks SO much for this
neverending ammunition to use against you both!"
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/wKi6bnHz8G4/OmlPX6VXjm0J
RE: "Every person that has read his rants here in the last 3 days asks if he is gay
LOL...It certainly seems as if he is, regardless of his words!"
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/UjLPCf47M_w/2fdntHskUCcJ
RE: "I am not the insane on, YOU are, and you continually prove this daily!
Keep going seanella! We're all watching!"
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/NGpI3f7axKY/ZNtfi_zVmycJ
RE: "How about your poltergeist???"
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/c5wLh-LbL3E/W2IhyME6z_8J
RE: ".....I can keep this up for years, I have absolutely NO problem with it,
and this is why I so do NOT care about your opinions or beliefs, they
are negligible at best! Anything else to say seanella??? "
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/wKi6bnHz8G4/r7u0tx-GJqwJ
Well, yes, I do have something to say:
Psychopathy - being the quintessential manifestation of the path of non-Being,
Entropy, Destruction, and Evil in Third Density, that is, the level of humanity. As
Psychopathy represents the epitome of human Evil, psychopaths may properly be
defined as disguised and hidden predators living among and working against the rest of
unsuspecting humanity. Psychopaths utterly lack conscience and feel no guilt or
remorse for their actions, no matter how heinous or revolting.
-----------
One of the most important symptoms of pathological narcissism (the Narcissistic Personality Disorder) is grandiosity. Grandiose fantasies (megalomaniac delusions of grandeur) permeate every aspect of the narcissist's personality. They are the reason that the narcissist feels entitled to special treatment which is typically incommensurate with his real accomplishments. The Grandiosity Gap is the abyss between the narcissist's self-image (as reified by his False Self) and reality.
When Narcissistic Supply is deficient, the narcissist de-compensates and acts out in a variety of ways. Narcissists often experience psychotic micro-episodes during therapy and when they suffer narcissistic injuries in a life crisis. But can the narcissist "go over the edge"? Do narcissists ever become psychotic?
Some terminology first:
The narrowest definition of psychosis, according to the DSM-IV-TR, is "restricted to delusions or prominent hallucinations, with the hallucinations occurring in the absence of insight into their pathological nature".
And what are delusions and hallucinations?
A delusion is "a false belief based on incorrect inference about external reality that is firmly sustained despite what almost everyone else believes and despite what constitutes incontrovertible and obvious proof or evidence to the contrary".
A hallucination is a "sensory perception that has the compelling sense of reality of a true perception but that occurs without external stimulation of the relevant sensory organ".
Granted, the narcissist's hold on reality is tenuous (narcissists sometimes fail the reality test). Admittedly, narcissists often seem to believe in their own confabulations. They are unaware of the pathological nature and origin of their self-delusions and are, thus, technically delusional (though they rarely suffer from hallucinations, disorganised speech, or disorganised or catatonic behaviour). In the strictest sense of the word, narcissists appear to be psychotic.
http://samvak.tripod.com/narcissistpsychotic.html
Henosis Sage
May 26, 2015, 3:59:19 AM5/26/15
to
Why this is marked as abuse? It has been marked as abuse.
Report not abuse
On Tuesday, 26 May 2015 05:38:20 UTC+10, Kinpa wrote:
under Federal mandates! "
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/uIhQ3M-dM7U/AJrFFuZCgn8J
"There is no Kinpakar.."
Correct. But there is a KINPANKAR virus being spread around. Incoherent gibberish.
"... however, that is also religious persecution under Federal mandates!"
That's what GRANDIOSE DELUSIONAL LOOKS LIKE:
"...you assume that I did not have the universe's permission first,
and on that assumption, you would be wrong! So, here I stand along
WITH the universe!"
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/UjLPCf47M_w/sJV2XXnPijcJ
RE "I am not fooling anyone,..."
YOU GOT THAT RIGHT DICK HEAD!!!!
RE: "Can you prove that I regurgitate pseudohistory?"
YES. WHAT OF IT?
re "....notice any burning today?"
NO. WHY DO YOU ASK PSYCHO???
LIES LOOK LIKE:
"Munchausen's Syndrome & shitter nutters & Patricia & Mice & Psychiatrists and
Yale Professors & Criminal & Drunk & Former ECKIst ex-girlfriends..."
"I have had a team of lawyers, they are always on staff, but you are nbot ever filing ANY
charges, because you cannot afford to, and you have NO evidence that will stand up in
court....claims mean absolutely nothing! And you are still a liar, and time will prove
this out! Why have you not ever called the FBI like you claimed you had? Because you are a
liar?"
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/90PWwwTeUzU/wfzxX647anEJ
MMMmmmm looney tunes again.
I NEVER CLAIMED I HAD CALLED THE FBI - STOP LYING ABOUT ME.
YOU ARE EITHER DEMENTED/DELUSIONAL OR A PSYCHOPATHIC LIAR
(shrug)
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Double standard...you speak about Rebazar Tarzs being fictional when you have NEVER been able to prove THAT! You simply get no option of swerving anyone else's opinion or experiences...anyone CAN speak of THEIR experiences if they want to, and despite YOU receiving no proof that he is real, you simply have NO right to demand that anyone not speak of him as being real until they have proven it! DEAL with it! LOL
>
>
> Double standard...you speak about Rebazar Tarzs being fictional when you have NEVER been able to prove THAT! You simply get no option of swerving anyone else's opinion or experiences...anyone CAN speak of THEIR experiences if they want to, and despite YOU receiving no proof that he is real, you simply have NO right to demand that anyone not speak of him as being real until they have proven it! DEAL with it! LOL
>
>
> > Strip away the plagiarisms and pull them from the mouth of Rebazar Tarzs then what do you have left? It's like the puppet without someone to move his mouth!
> >-----------------------------------------------------------
> Is it? I disagree with you, what of it???
>
>
> Is it? I disagree with you, what of it???
>
>
> > But I saw that you, Harold and others were like so attached to the character that it's like you picked up the puppet and start pretending to animate him. Is this on account of being attached to believing what Paul Twitchell said? Or on account of some form of brainwashing? or inability to admit you were fooled and the ideal died? but need imagination to save you by creating another R.T. for yourself?
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> YOU completely assume its a puppet, and yet you stand there demanding that I admit that it IS a puppet, yet you have never done anything to prove that this is the case, this exemplifies YOUR prejudiced point of view! No one ever insisted that you accept his existence, in fact, I told you that I dont care what you choose to believe! Why this switch and change bit? You are avoiding the actual fact that plagiarism does NOT address whether or not he exists!
>
>
> YOU completely assume its a puppet, and yet you stand there demanding that I admit that it IS a puppet, yet you have never done anything to prove that this is the case, this exemplifies YOUR prejudiced point of view! No one ever insisted that you accept his existence, in fact, I told you that I dont care what you choose to believe! Why this switch and change bit? You are avoiding the actual fact that plagiarism does NOT address whether or not he exists!
>
>
> > Seriously, who is going to support the idea of some Tibetan Lama over 500 years old living in the Himalayas that told Paul Twitchell what to write in the Eckankar books? Especially now, after so much of what many people (Eckankar members and Eckankar leaders included) have come to learn were like plagiarisms said to come from R.T.?
> >------------------------------------------------------------
> What difference does this make to you? is anyone forcing you to believe anything? Then why does it bother you so much that some choose not to agree with you? THAT is YOUR weakness, not anyone else's!
>
>
>
> What difference does this make to you? is anyone forcing you to believe anything? Then why does it bother you so much that some choose not to agree with you? THAT is YOUR weakness, not anyone else's!
>
>
>
> > Who are we fooling here? Mindless idiots who can't think for themselves? Programmed robots, perhaps?
> >----------------------------------------------------
> I am not fooling anyone, who are YOU fooling???
>
>
>
> I am not fooling anyone, who are YOU fooling???
>
>
>
> > In spite of the discoveries that two so-called Godmen now (Darwin Gross and Harold Klemp) have come to discover (just like everybody else) there is still this drive to make R.T. real by speaking for him? Like by telling stories and then alleging he is real based on what other people said, or wrote?
> > ---------------------------------------------------------
> You cannot prove that either! Here you go again, like the fundamentalist that you are, insisting that everyone agree with YOUR opinions, without one shred of proof! STOP IT! IT is amateurish!
>
>
>
> You cannot prove that either! Here you go again, like the fundamentalist that you are, insisting that everyone agree with YOUR opinions, without one shred of proof! STOP IT! IT is amateurish!
>
>
>
> > One has to prove that R.T. exists, otherwise the existence can only be fairly qualified as a possibility. It is not a proven fact. It should be clarified as not a proven fact.
> >---------------------------------------------------
> Why does anyone have to prove that? Because YOU demand it? You silly boy, you value YOUR opinion overly much, the thing is, that no one else does! What do you not understand about that! Who do you think that you are, that you are THAT important to anyone that you deserve to have ANYTHING proven to you? Your hubris is amazing! How do you sleep at night??? YOU choose to discredit the experinces of others, though they claim them to be real, you dont have to believe those, but you also dont get to demand that anyone else accept them as being false because you cant prove that they are!
>
>
> Why does anyone have to prove that? Because YOU demand it? You silly boy, you value YOUR opinion overly much, the thing is, that no one else does! What do you not understand about that! Who do you think that you are, that you are THAT important to anyone that you deserve to have ANYTHING proven to you? Your hubris is amazing! How do you sleep at night??? YOU choose to discredit the experinces of others, though they claim them to be real, you dont have to believe those, but you also dont get to demand that anyone else accept them as being false because you cant prove that they are!
>
>
> > Harold Klemp (in so many words) had it the Vairagi Masters supported him in the removal of Darwin Gross from Eckankar. Darwin had it that Eck Masters supported the idea of having Harold removed! (from his leadership position). Can we agree now on the danger and insanity of incorporating imaginary characters into a religion where the characters are not the ones doing the speaking? but where others are doing the speaking for them? Including when you tried to speak for Rebazar Tarzs about me? and then said everything you said about him was true?
> >-------------------------------------------------
> I never spoke for Rebazar Tarzs about you, once again you have lost the reality of what was said, perhaps you ought to re-read it again...
>
>
> I never spoke for Rebazar Tarzs about you, once again you have lost the reality of what was said, perhaps you ought to re-read it again...
>
>
> > I see the danger and insanity of animating imaginary characters that way and so am not teaching people Rebazar Tarzs is over 500 years old, hanging out in the Himalayas next door to Babaji and then basing this on what other people said, or wrote.
> >----------------------------------------------------
> There is no danger to you, so what is it that you are ranting about? ECKists are not afraid to have you thinking they are crazy! Once again your ego knows no bounds! It is both silly and hilarious how you decide that you get to speak for the world against Eckankar and ECKists! You may want proof, but NO ONE owes you ANY! DEAL with that! No one owes you a thing!
>
>
>
> There is no danger to you, so what is it that you are ranting about? ECKists are not afraid to have you thinking they are crazy! Once again your ego knows no bounds! It is both silly and hilarious how you decide that you get to speak for the world against Eckankar and ECKists! You may want proof, but NO ONE owes you ANY! DEAL with that! No one owes you a thing!
>
>
>
> > You can teach about how you "know" Rebazar Tarzs is real and that this is your choice, but I suggest you also face the fact not everybody else believes the same thing about Rebazar Tarzs as you. Not even everybody in Eckankar. And then you have to try harder to be a mature adult and communicate to people with more respect without swearing at them, or using the same tactics you see after Sean intentionally holds up a mirror when you go about to speaking naive jibbersish and insults at him.
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Oh stop it Richie, your buddy seanella swore and insulted and name called first, so stop ignoring that and acting as if I started that mess, it simply isnt true.....I i CAN teach about what I know, without quotation marks, to the people that literally ASK me too, and I do NOT need YOUR approval, but it IS hilarious that you think I do....do not flatter yourself sonny boy! I have NEVER said that you, or anyone should believe what I know, get your facts straight, these inaccuracies will not work! The people at my site CAN ask me to teach them whatever they would like, just as they can also have direct experiences with these "fictional" Masters, you get no say in the matter, and trust me, i care not one bit how differently you "believe", I choose not to work with belief at any stage, it has no place in my life, regardless of whether or not you agree.
>
>
> Oh stop it Richie, your buddy seanella swore and insulted and name called first, so stop ignoring that and acting as if I started that mess, it simply isnt true.....I i CAN teach about what I know, without quotation marks, to the people that literally ASK me too, and I do NOT need YOUR approval, but it IS hilarious that you think I do....do not flatter yourself sonny boy! I have NEVER said that you, or anyone should believe what I know, get your facts straight, these inaccuracies will not work! The people at my site CAN ask me to teach them whatever they would like, just as they can also have direct experiences with these "fictional" Masters, you get no say in the matter, and trust me, i care not one bit how differently you "believe", I choose not to work with belief at any stage, it has no place in my life, regardless of whether or not you agree.
>
>
> > At this point I am not telling other people Rebazar Tarzs is real and that other of the masters are in fact real because this is what somebody else said, or wrote. Not when I have personally read paragraph after paragraph of multiple authors' works appear to (according to Paul Twitchell and Eckankar) come from the mouths of characters who don't even have photographs to prove their existence! No photographs and evidently no DNA either!
> >--------------------------------------------------------------
> That is your choice, but not everyone in the woprlkd agrees with you either! Get over that already, you simply don't get a choice in it, that choice belongs to each individual. but here again is your ridiculing of others religions, and this IS religious persecution...be forewarned! There is NO law, anywhere in the world that staes photgraphs or DNA must be available for an entity to v=be considered both real, and a saint, this is simply YOUR problem with Eckankar, but Eckankar cares not, you made YOUR choice, now the choices of other folks belongs only to them, not to you!
>
>
>
> That is your choice, but not everyone in the woprlkd agrees with you either! Get over that already, you simply don't get a choice in it, that choice belongs to each individual. but here again is your ridiculing of others religions, and this IS religious persecution...be forewarned! There is NO law, anywhere in the world that staes photgraphs or DNA must be available for an entity to v=be considered both real, and a saint, this is simply YOUR problem with Eckankar, but Eckankar cares not, you made YOUR choice, now the choices of other folks belongs only to them, not to you!
>
>
>
> > (Should it not be easy to get some 500+-year-old DNA from all the places where Rebazar Tarzs has been?)
> >
> > Maybe you, or Harold can go ask your Rebazar Tarzs' for some DNA? (See how silly that sounds?) But hey! You probably need to make an excuse to detract away from that possibility too if you can't come up with the goods.
> >
> > Maybe you, or Harold can go ask your Rebazar Tarzs' for some DNA? (See how silly that sounds?) But hey! You probably need to make an excuse to detract away from that possibility too if you can't come up with the goods.
> >----------------------------------------
> Why dont YOU go ask for some?? Despite the fact that if anyone provided you any, you would claim it wasnt real or wasnt his, just as if he actually physically showed up at a seminar, you would also claim it was an actor that was hired!
>
>
> Why dont YOU go ask for some?? Despite the fact that if anyone provided you any, you would claim it wasnt real or wasnt his, just as if he actually physically showed up at a seminar, you would also claim it was an actor that was hired!
>
>
> > Here is something to consider. Do you even now know the number of websites and people using Rebazar Tarzs for their own ends? using this "character" to create more pseudo history and religion? If you've followed this group then there is probably knowledge of some. However, How can you tell how many there really are? How many threats to your Kinpankar?
> > -----------------------------------------------------
> There is no Kinpakar, however, that is also religious persecution under Federal mandates!
>
>
> There is no Kinpakar, however, that is also religious persecution under Federal mandates!
>
>
> > See what I mean here? And does it even matter to you how this same pattern appears throughout history to be the root of all evil? This thing that is happening even now with every piece of pseudo history and religion you regurgitate here on this forum? This should not read as complicated, nor hard to understand. And of course it should not be angering, or insulting because we already know how many times you claimed never to get angry. Besides that, the criticism was directed at pseudo history and religion and not at the fact you want to serve it here.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> The root of ALL evil? You cannot be serious! Can you prove that I regurgitate pseudohistory? Or is that simply your opinion? If it is, I dont see how I am bound by it....It is fine if you want to complain about it, but I dont have to abide by it...
>
> Nice of you to make vast assumptions..you might call it attached, however, that simply is NOT the only possibility, but of course you can't admit the other ones....notice any burning today? Either of you? Is that pseudohistory? Or is it karma??
-------------
RE: "There is no Kinpakar, however, that is also religious persecution
> The root of ALL evil? You cannot be serious! Can you prove that I regurgitate pseudohistory? Or is that simply your opinion? If it is, I dont see how I am bound by it....It is fine if you want to complain about it, but I dont have to abide by it...
>
> Nice of you to make vast assumptions..you might call it attached, however, that simply is NOT the only possibility, but of course you can't admit the other ones....notice any burning today? Either of you? Is that pseudohistory? Or is it karma??
-------------
under Federal mandates! "
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/uIhQ3M-dM7U/AJrFFuZCgn8J
"There is no Kinpakar.."
Correct. But there is a KINPANKAR virus being spread around. Incoherent gibberish.
"... however, that is also religious persecution under Federal mandates!"
That's what GRANDIOSE DELUSIONAL LOOKS LIKE:
"...you assume that I did not have the universe's permission first,
and on that assumption, you would be wrong! So, here I stand along
WITH the universe!"
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/UjLPCf47M_w/sJV2XXnPijcJ
RE "I am not fooling anyone,..."
YOU GOT THAT RIGHT DICK HEAD!!!!
RE: "Can you prove that I regurgitate pseudohistory?"
YES. WHAT OF IT?
re "....notice any burning today?"
NO. WHY DO YOU ASK PSYCHO???
LIES LOOK LIKE:
"Munchausen's Syndrome & shitter nutters & Patricia & Mice & Psychiatrists and
Yale Professors & Criminal & Drunk & Former ECKIst ex-girlfriends..."
"Every person that has read his rants here in the last 3 days asks if he is gay
LOL...It certainly seems as if he is, regardless of his words!"
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/UjLPCf47M_w/2fdntHskUCcJ
PARANOIC DELUSIONAL LOOKS LIKE:
LOL...It certainly seems as if he is, regardless of his words!"
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/UjLPCf47M_w/2fdntHskUCcJ
"I have had a team of lawyers, they are always on staff, but you are nbot ever filing ANY
charges, because you cannot afford to, and you have NO evidence that will stand up in
court....claims mean absolutely nothing! And you are still a liar, and time will prove
this out! Why have you not ever called the FBI like you claimed you had? Because you are a
liar?"
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/90PWwwTeUzU/wfzxX647anEJ
MMMmmmm looney tunes again.
I NEVER CLAIMED I HAD CALLED THE FBI - STOP LYING ABOUT ME.
YOU ARE EITHER DEMENTED/DELUSIONAL OR A PSYCHOPATHIC LIAR
Message has been deleted
Etznab
May 26, 2015, 8:33:57 PM5/26/15
to
On Monday, May 25, 2015 at 2:38:20 PM UTC-5, Kinpa wrote:
You can't grasp this? Can't admit this? Because you are in denial?
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Double standard...you speak about Rebazar Tarzs being fictional when you have NEVER been able to prove THAT! You simply get no option of swerving anyone else's opinion or experiences...anyone CAN speak of THEIR experiences if they want to, and despite YOU receiving no proof that he is real, you simply have NO right to demand that anyone not speak of him as being real until they have proven it! DEAL with it! LOL
>
>
> Double standard...you speak about Rebazar Tarzs being fictional when you have NEVER been able to prove THAT! You simply get no option of swerving anyone else's opinion or experiences...anyone CAN speak of THEIR experiences if they want to, and despite YOU receiving no proof that he is real, you simply have NO right to demand that anyone not speak of him as being real until they have proven it! DEAL with it! LOL
>
>
> > Strip away the plagiarisms and pull them from the mouth of Rebazar Tarzs then what do you have left? It's like the puppet without someone to move his mouth!
> >-----------------------------------------------------------
> Is it? I disagree with you, what of it???
>
>
> Is it? I disagree with you, what of it???
>
>
> > But I saw that you, Harold and others were like so attached to the character that it's like you picked up the puppet and start pretending to animate him. Is this on account of being attached to believing what Paul Twitchell said? Or on account of some form of brainwashing? or inability to admit you were fooled and the ideal died? but need imagination to save you by creating another R.T. for yourself?
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> YOU completely assume its a puppet, and yet you stand there demanding that I admit that it IS a puppet, yet you have never done anything to prove that this is the case, this exemplifies YOUR prejudiced point of view! No one ever insisted that you accept his existence, in fact, I told you that I dont care what you choose to believe! Why this switch and change bit? You are avoiding the actual fact that plagiarism does NOT address whether or not he exists!
>
>
> YOU completely assume its a puppet, and yet you stand there demanding that I admit that it IS a puppet, yet you have never done anything to prove that this is the case, this exemplifies YOUR prejudiced point of view! No one ever insisted that you accept his existence, in fact, I told you that I dont care what you choose to believe! Why this switch and change bit? You are avoiding the actual fact that plagiarism does NOT address whether or not he exists!
>
>
> > Seriously, who is going to support the idea of some Tibetan Lama over 500 years old living in the Himalayas that told Paul Twitchell what to write in the Eckankar books? Especially now, after so much of what many people (Eckankar members and Eckankar leaders included) have come to learn were like plagiarisms said to come from R.T.?
> >------------------------------------------------------------
> What difference does this make to you? is anyone forcing you to believe anything? Then why does it bother you so much that some choose not to agree with you? THAT is YOUR weakness, not anyone else's!
>
>
>
> What difference does this make to you? is anyone forcing you to believe anything? Then why does it bother you so much that some choose not to agree with you? THAT is YOUR weakness, not anyone else's!
>
>
>
> > Who are we fooling here? Mindless idiots who can't think for themselves? Programmed robots, perhaps?
> >----------------------------------------------------
> I am not fooling anyone, who are YOU fooling???
>
>
>
> I am not fooling anyone, who are YOU fooling???
>
>
>
> > In spite of the discoveries that two so-called Godmen now (Darwin Gross and Harold Klemp) have come to discover (just like everybody else) there is still this drive to make R.T. real by speaking for him? Like by telling stories and then alleging he is real based on what other people said, or wrote?
> > ---------------------------------------------------------
> You cannot prove that either! Here you go again, like the fundamentalist that you are, insisting that everyone agree with YOUR opinions, without one shred of proof! STOP IT! IT is amateurish!
>
>
>
> You cannot prove that either! Here you go again, like the fundamentalist that you are, insisting that everyone agree with YOUR opinions, without one shred of proof! STOP IT! IT is amateurish!
>
>
>
> > One has to prove that R.T. exists, otherwise the existence can only be fairly qualified as a possibility. It is not a proven fact. It should be clarified as not a proven fact.
> >---------------------------------------------------
> Why does anyone have to prove that? Because YOU demand it? You silly boy, you value YOUR opinion overly much, the thing is, that no one else does! What do you not understand about that! Who do you think that you are, that you are THAT important to anyone that you deserve to have ANYTHING proven to you? Your hubris is amazing! How do you sleep at night??? YOU choose to discredit the experinces of others, though they claim them to be real, you dont have to believe those, but you also dont get to demand that anyone else accept them as being false because you cant prove that they are!
>
>
> Why does anyone have to prove that? Because YOU demand it? You silly boy, you value YOUR opinion overly much, the thing is, that no one else does! What do you not understand about that! Who do you think that you are, that you are THAT important to anyone that you deserve to have ANYTHING proven to you? Your hubris is amazing! How do you sleep at night??? YOU choose to discredit the experinces of others, though they claim them to be real, you dont have to believe those, but you also dont get to demand that anyone else accept them as being false because you cant prove that they are!
>
>
> > Harold Klemp (in so many words) had it the Vairagi Masters supported him in the removal of Darwin Gross from Eckankar. Darwin had it that Eck Masters supported the idea of having Harold removed! (from his leadership position). Can we agree now on the danger and insanity of incorporating imaginary characters into a religion where the characters are not the ones doing the speaking? but where others are doing the speaking for them? Including when you tried to speak for Rebazar Tarzs about me? and then said everything you said about him was true?
> >-------------------------------------------------
> I never spoke for Rebazar Tarzs about you, once again you have lost the reality of what was said, perhaps you ought to re-read it again...
>
>
> I never spoke for Rebazar Tarzs about you, once again you have lost the reality of what was said, perhaps you ought to re-read it again...
>
>
> > I see the danger and insanity of animating imaginary characters that way and so am not teaching people Rebazar Tarzs is over 500 years old, hanging out in the Himalayas next door to Babaji and then basing this on what other people said, or wrote.
> >----------------------------------------------------
> There is no danger to you, so what is it that you are ranting about? ECKists are not afraid to have you thinking they are crazy! Once again your ego knows no bounds! It is both silly and hilarious how you decide that you get to speak for the world against Eckankar and ECKists! You may want proof, but NO ONE owes you ANY! DEAL with that! No one owes you a thing!
>
>
>
> There is no danger to you, so what is it that you are ranting about? ECKists are not afraid to have you thinking they are crazy! Once again your ego knows no bounds! It is both silly and hilarious how you decide that you get to speak for the world against Eckankar and ECKists! You may want proof, but NO ONE owes you ANY! DEAL with that! No one owes you a thing!
>
>
>
> > You can teach about how you "know" Rebazar Tarzs is real and that this is your choice, but I suggest you also face the fact not everybody else believes the same thing about Rebazar Tarzs as you. Not even everybody in Eckankar. And then you have to try harder to be a mature adult and communicate to people with more respect without swearing at them, or using the same tactics you see after Sean intentionally holds up a mirror when you go about to speaking naive jibbersish and insults at him.
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Oh stop it Richie, your buddy seanella swore and insulted and name called first, so stop ignoring that and acting as if I started that mess, it simply isnt true.....I i CAN teach about what I know, without quotation marks, to the people that literally ASK me too, and I do NOT need YOUR approval, but it IS hilarious that you think I do....do not flatter yourself sonny boy! I have NEVER said that you, or anyone should believe what I know, get your facts straight, these inaccuracies will not work! The people at my site CAN ask me to teach them whatever they would like, just as they can also have direct experiences with these "fictional" Masters, you get no say in the matter, and trust me, i care not one bit how differently you "believe", I choose not to work with belief at any stage, it has no place in my life, regardless of whether or not you agree.
>
>
> Oh stop it Richie, your buddy seanella swore and insulted and name called first, so stop ignoring that and acting as if I started that mess, it simply isnt true.....I i CAN teach about what I know, without quotation marks, to the people that literally ASK me too, and I do NOT need YOUR approval, but it IS hilarious that you think I do....do not flatter yourself sonny boy! I have NEVER said that you, or anyone should believe what I know, get your facts straight, these inaccuracies will not work! The people at my site CAN ask me to teach them whatever they would like, just as they can also have direct experiences with these "fictional" Masters, you get no say in the matter, and trust me, i care not one bit how differently you "believe", I choose not to work with belief at any stage, it has no place in my life, regardless of whether or not you agree.
>
>
> > At this point I am not telling other people Rebazar Tarzs is real and that other of the masters are in fact real because this is what somebody else said, or wrote. Not when I have personally read paragraph after paragraph of multiple authors' works appear to (according to Paul Twitchell and Eckankar) come from the mouths of characters who don't even have photographs to prove their existence! No photographs and evidently no DNA either!
> >--------------------------------------------------------------
> That is your choice, but not everyone in the woprlkd agrees with you either! Get over that already, you simply don't get a choice in it, that choice belongs to each individual. but here again is your ridiculing of others religions, and this IS religious persecution...be forewarned! There is NO law, anywhere in the world that staes photgraphs or DNA must be available for an entity to v=be considered both real, and a saint, this is simply YOUR problem with Eckankar, but Eckankar cares not, you made YOUR choice, now the choices of other folks belongs only to them, not to you!
>
>
>
> That is your choice, but not everyone in the woprlkd agrees with you either! Get over that already, you simply don't get a choice in it, that choice belongs to each individual. but here again is your ridiculing of others religions, and this IS religious persecution...be forewarned! There is NO law, anywhere in the world that staes photgraphs or DNA must be available for an entity to v=be considered both real, and a saint, this is simply YOUR problem with Eckankar, but Eckankar cares not, you made YOUR choice, now the choices of other folks belongs only to them, not to you!
>
>
>
> > (Should it not be easy to get some 500+-year-old DNA from all the places where Rebazar Tarzs has been?)
> >
> > Maybe you, or Harold can go ask your Rebazar Tarzs' for some DNA? (See how silly that sounds?) But hey! You probably need to make an excuse to detract away from that possibility too if you can't come up with the goods.
> >
> > Maybe you, or Harold can go ask your Rebazar Tarzs' for some DNA? (See how silly that sounds?) But hey! You probably need to make an excuse to detract away from that possibility too if you can't come up with the goods.
> >----------------------------------------
> Why dont YOU go ask for some?? Despite the fact that if anyone provided you any, you would claim it wasnt real or wasnt his, just as if he actually physically showed up at a seminar, you would also claim it was an actor that was hired!
>
>
> Why dont YOU go ask for some?? Despite the fact that if anyone provided you any, you would claim it wasnt real or wasnt his, just as if he actually physically showed up at a seminar, you would also claim it was an actor that was hired!
>
>
> > Here is something to consider. Do you even now know the number of websites and people using Rebazar Tarzs for their own ends? using this "character" to create more pseudo history and religion? If you've followed this group then there is probably knowledge of some. However, How can you tell how many there really are? How many threats to your Kinpankar?
> > -----------------------------------------------------
> There is no Kinpakar, however, that is also religious persecution under Federal mandates!
>
>
> There is no Kinpakar, however, that is also religious persecution under Federal mandates!
>
>
> > See what I mean here? And does it even matter to you how this same pattern appears throughout history to be the root of all evil? This thing that is happening even now with every piece of pseudo history and religion you regurgitate here on this forum? This should not read as complicated, nor hard to understand. And of course it should not be angering, or insulting because we already know how many times you claimed never to get angry. Besides that, the criticism was directed at pseudo history and religion and not at the fact you want to serve it here.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> The root of ALL evil? You cannot be serious! Can you prove that I regurgitate pseudohistory? Or is that simply your opinion? If it is, I dont see how I am bound by it....It is fine if you want to complain about it, but I dont have to abide by it...
>
> Nice of you to make vast assumptions..you might call it attached, however, that simply is NOT the only possibility, but of course you can't admit the other ones....notice any burning today? Either of you? Is that pseudohistory? Or is it karma??
> The root of ALL evil? You cannot be serious! Can you prove that I regurgitate pseudohistory? Or is that simply your opinion? If it is, I dont see how I am bound by it....It is fine if you want to complain about it, but I dont have to abide by it...
>
> Nice of you to make vast assumptions..you might call it attached, however, that simply is NOT the only possibility, but of course you can't admit the other ones....notice any burning today? Either of you? Is that pseudohistory? Or is it karma??
"Double standard...you speak about Rebazar Tarzs being fictional when you have NEVER been able to prove THAT! You simply get no option of swerving anyone else's opinion or experiences...anyone CAN speak of THEIR experiences if they want to, and despite YOU receiving no proof that he is real, you simply have NO right to demand that anyone not speak of him as being real until they have proven it! DEAL with it! LOL"
Your such a denier Kinpa, because already you admitted plagiarized texts. You also already know many plagiarized texts were said to have come from Rebazar Tarzs. Therefore, "that" Rebazar Tarzs is likely a fiction. All of the false animations of Rebazar Tarzs using plagiarized words are also likely fictions.
You can't grasp this? Can't admit this? Because you are in denial?
Etznab
May 26, 2015, 8:38:41 PM5/26/15
to
On Monday, May 25, 2015 at 2:38:20 PM UTC-5, Kinpa wrote:
I can give you very clear examples, Kinpa.
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Double standard...you speak about Rebazar Tarzs being fictional when you have NEVER been able to prove THAT! You simply get no option of swerving anyone else's opinion or experiences...anyone CAN speak of THEIR experiences if they want to, and despite YOU receiving no proof that he is real, you simply have NO right to demand that anyone not speak of him as being real until they have proven it! DEAL with it! LOL
>
>
> Double standard...you speak about Rebazar Tarzs being fictional when you have NEVER been able to prove THAT! You simply get no option of swerving anyone else's opinion or experiences...anyone CAN speak of THEIR experiences if they want to, and despite YOU receiving no proof that he is real, you simply have NO right to demand that anyone not speak of him as being real until they have proven it! DEAL with it! LOL
>
>
> > Strip away the plagiarisms and pull them from the mouth of Rebazar Tarzs then what do you have left? It's like the puppet without someone to move his mouth!
> >-----------------------------------------------------------
> Is it? I disagree with you, what of it???
>
>
> Is it? I disagree with you, what of it???
>
>
> > But I saw that you, Harold and others were like so attached to the character that it's like you picked up the puppet and start pretending to animate him. Is this on account of being attached to believing what Paul Twitchell said? Or on account of some form of brainwashing? or inability to admit you were fooled and the ideal died? but need imagination to save you by creating another R.T. for yourself?
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> YOU completely assume its a puppet, and yet you stand there demanding that I admit that it IS a puppet, yet you have never done anything to prove that this is the case, this exemplifies YOUR prejudiced point of view! No one ever insisted that you accept his existence, in fact, I told you that I dont care what you choose to believe! Why this switch and change bit? You are avoiding the actual fact that plagiarism does NOT address whether or not he exists!
>
>
> YOU completely assume its a puppet, and yet you stand there demanding that I admit that it IS a puppet, yet you have never done anything to prove that this is the case, this exemplifies YOUR prejudiced point of view! No one ever insisted that you accept his existence, in fact, I told you that I dont care what you choose to believe! Why this switch and change bit? You are avoiding the actual fact that plagiarism does NOT address whether or not he exists!
>
>
> > Seriously, who is going to support the idea of some Tibetan Lama over 500 years old living in the Himalayas that told Paul Twitchell what to write in the Eckankar books? Especially now, after so much of what many people (Eckankar members and Eckankar leaders included) have come to learn were like plagiarisms said to come from R.T.?
> >------------------------------------------------------------
> What difference does this make to you? is anyone forcing you to believe anything? Then why does it bother you so much that some choose not to agree with you? THAT is YOUR weakness, not anyone else's!
>
>
>
> What difference does this make to you? is anyone forcing you to believe anything? Then why does it bother you so much that some choose not to agree with you? THAT is YOUR weakness, not anyone else's!
>
>
>
> > Who are we fooling here? Mindless idiots who can't think for themselves? Programmed robots, perhaps?
> >----------------------------------------------------
> I am not fooling anyone, who are YOU fooling???
>
>
>
> I am not fooling anyone, who are YOU fooling???
>
>
>
> > In spite of the discoveries that two so-called Godmen now (Darwin Gross and Harold Klemp) have come to discover (just like everybody else) there is still this drive to make R.T. real by speaking for him? Like by telling stories and then alleging he is real based on what other people said, or wrote?
> > ---------------------------------------------------------
> You cannot prove that either! Here you go again, like the fundamentalist that you are, insisting that everyone agree with YOUR opinions, without one shred of proof! STOP IT! IT is amateurish!
>
>
>
> You cannot prove that either! Here you go again, like the fundamentalist that you are, insisting that everyone agree with YOUR opinions, without one shred of proof! STOP IT! IT is amateurish!
>
>
>
> > One has to prove that R.T. exists, otherwise the existence can only be fairly qualified as a possibility. It is not a proven fact. It should be clarified as not a proven fact.
> >---------------------------------------------------
> Why does anyone have to prove that? Because YOU demand it? You silly boy, you value YOUR opinion overly much, the thing is, that no one else does! What do you not understand about that! Who do you think that you are, that you are THAT important to anyone that you deserve to have ANYTHING proven to you? Your hubris is amazing! How do you sleep at night??? YOU choose to discredit the experinces of others, though they claim them to be real, you dont have to believe those, but you also dont get to demand that anyone else accept them as being false because you cant prove that they are!
>
>
> Why does anyone have to prove that? Because YOU demand it? You silly boy, you value YOUR opinion overly much, the thing is, that no one else does! What do you not understand about that! Who do you think that you are, that you are THAT important to anyone that you deserve to have ANYTHING proven to you? Your hubris is amazing! How do you sleep at night??? YOU choose to discredit the experinces of others, though they claim them to be real, you dont have to believe those, but you also dont get to demand that anyone else accept them as being false because you cant prove that they are!
>
>
> > Harold Klemp (in so many words) had it the Vairagi Masters supported him in the removal of Darwin Gross from Eckankar. Darwin had it that Eck Masters supported the idea of having Harold removed! (from his leadership position). Can we agree now on the danger and insanity of incorporating imaginary characters into a religion where the characters are not the ones doing the speaking? but where others are doing the speaking for them? Including when you tried to speak for Rebazar Tarzs about me? and then said everything you said about him was true?
> >-------------------------------------------------
> I never spoke for Rebazar Tarzs about you, once again you have lost the reality of what was said, perhaps you ought to re-read it again...
>
>
> I never spoke for Rebazar Tarzs about you, once again you have lost the reality of what was said, perhaps you ought to re-read it again...
>
>
> > I see the danger and insanity of animating imaginary characters that way and so am not teaching people Rebazar Tarzs is over 500 years old, hanging out in the Himalayas next door to Babaji and then basing this on what other people said, or wrote.
> >----------------------------------------------------
> There is no danger to you, so what is it that you are ranting about? ECKists are not afraid to have you thinking they are crazy! Once again your ego knows no bounds! It is both silly and hilarious how you decide that you get to speak for the world against Eckankar and ECKists! You may want proof, but NO ONE owes you ANY! DEAL with that! No one owes you a thing!
>
>
>
> There is no danger to you, so what is it that you are ranting about? ECKists are not afraid to have you thinking they are crazy! Once again your ego knows no bounds! It is both silly and hilarious how you decide that you get to speak for the world against Eckankar and ECKists! You may want proof, but NO ONE owes you ANY! DEAL with that! No one owes you a thing!
>
>
>
> > You can teach about how you "know" Rebazar Tarzs is real and that this is your choice, but I suggest you also face the fact not everybody else believes the same thing about Rebazar Tarzs as you. Not even everybody in Eckankar. And then you have to try harder to be a mature adult and communicate to people with more respect without swearing at them, or using the same tactics you see after Sean intentionally holds up a mirror when you go about to speaking naive jibbersish and insults at him.
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Oh stop it Richie, your buddy seanella swore and insulted and name called first, so stop ignoring that and acting as if I started that mess, it simply isnt true.....I i CAN teach about what I know, without quotation marks, to the people that literally ASK me too, and I do NOT need YOUR approval, but it IS hilarious that you think I do....do not flatter yourself sonny boy! I have NEVER said that you, or anyone should believe what I know, get your facts straight, these inaccuracies will not work! The people at my site CAN ask me to teach them whatever they would like, just as they can also have direct experiences with these "fictional" Masters, you get no say in the matter, and trust me, i care not one bit how differently you "believe", I choose not to work with belief at any stage, it has no place in my life, regardless of whether or not you agree.
>
>
> Oh stop it Richie, your buddy seanella swore and insulted and name called first, so stop ignoring that and acting as if I started that mess, it simply isnt true.....I i CAN teach about what I know, without quotation marks, to the people that literally ASK me too, and I do NOT need YOUR approval, but it IS hilarious that you think I do....do not flatter yourself sonny boy! I have NEVER said that you, or anyone should believe what I know, get your facts straight, these inaccuracies will not work! The people at my site CAN ask me to teach them whatever they would like, just as they can also have direct experiences with these "fictional" Masters, you get no say in the matter, and trust me, i care not one bit how differently you "believe", I choose not to work with belief at any stage, it has no place in my life, regardless of whether or not you agree.
>
>
> > At this point I am not telling other people Rebazar Tarzs is real and that other of the masters are in fact real because this is what somebody else said, or wrote. Not when I have personally read paragraph after paragraph of multiple authors' works appear to (according to Paul Twitchell and Eckankar) come from the mouths of characters who don't even have photographs to prove their existence! No photographs and evidently no DNA either!
> >--------------------------------------------------------------
> That is your choice, but not everyone in the woprlkd agrees with you either! Get over that already, you simply don't get a choice in it, that choice belongs to each individual. but here again is your ridiculing of others religions, and this IS religious persecution...be forewarned! There is NO law, anywhere in the world that staes photgraphs or DNA must be available for an entity to v=be considered both real, and a saint, this is simply YOUR problem with Eckankar, but Eckankar cares not, you made YOUR choice, now the choices of other folks belongs only to them, not to you!
>
>
>
> That is your choice, but not everyone in the woprlkd agrees with you either! Get over that already, you simply don't get a choice in it, that choice belongs to each individual. but here again is your ridiculing of others religions, and this IS religious persecution...be forewarned! There is NO law, anywhere in the world that staes photgraphs or DNA must be available for an entity to v=be considered both real, and a saint, this is simply YOUR problem with Eckankar, but Eckankar cares not, you made YOUR choice, now the choices of other folks belongs only to them, not to you!
>
>
>
> > (Should it not be easy to get some 500+-year-old DNA from all the places where Rebazar Tarzs has been?)
> >
> > Maybe you, or Harold can go ask your Rebazar Tarzs' for some DNA? (See how silly that sounds?) But hey! You probably need to make an excuse to detract away from that possibility too if you can't come up with the goods.
> >
> > Maybe you, or Harold can go ask your Rebazar Tarzs' for some DNA? (See how silly that sounds?) But hey! You probably need to make an excuse to detract away from that possibility too if you can't come up with the goods.
> >----------------------------------------
> Why dont YOU go ask for some?? Despite the fact that if anyone provided you any, you would claim it wasnt real or wasnt his, just as if he actually physically showed up at a seminar, you would also claim it was an actor that was hired!
>
>
> Why dont YOU go ask for some?? Despite the fact that if anyone provided you any, you would claim it wasnt real or wasnt his, just as if he actually physically showed up at a seminar, you would also claim it was an actor that was hired!
>
>
> > Here is something to consider. Do you even now know the number of websites and people using Rebazar Tarzs for their own ends? using this "character" to create more pseudo history and religion? If you've followed this group then there is probably knowledge of some. However, How can you tell how many there really are? How many threats to your Kinpankar?
> > -----------------------------------------------------
> There is no Kinpakar, however, that is also religious persecution under Federal mandates!
>
>
> There is no Kinpakar, however, that is also religious persecution under Federal mandates!
>
>
> > See what I mean here? And does it even matter to you how this same pattern appears throughout history to be the root of all evil? This thing that is happening even now with every piece of pseudo history and religion you regurgitate here on this forum? This should not read as complicated, nor hard to understand. And of course it should not be angering, or insulting because we already know how many times you claimed never to get angry. Besides that, the criticism was directed at pseudo history and religion and not at the fact you want to serve it here.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> The root of ALL evil? You cannot be serious! Can you prove that I regurgitate pseudohistory? Or is that simply your opinion? If it is, I dont see how I am bound by it....It is fine if you want to complain about it, but I dont have to abide by it...
>
> Nice of you to make vast assumptions..you might call it attached, however, that simply is NOT the only possibility, but of course you can't admit the other ones....notice any burning today? Either of you? Is that pseudohistory? Or is it karma??
> The root of ALL evil? You cannot be serious! Can you prove that I regurgitate pseudohistory? Or is that simply your opinion? If it is, I dont see how I am bound by it....It is fine if you want to complain about it, but I dont have to abide by it...
>
> Nice of you to make vast assumptions..you might call it attached, however, that simply is NOT the only possibility, but of course you can't admit the other ones....notice any burning today? Either of you? Is that pseudohistory? Or is it karma??
"Strip away the plagiarisms and pull them from the mouth of Rebazar Tarzs then what do you have left? It's like the puppet without someone to move his mouth!"
So you disagree that none of the plagiarisms paint a fictional picture of Rebazar Tarzs? That there is no such thing as any fictional picture of Rebazar Tarzs? Will you deny this as well?
I can give you very clear examples, Kinpa.
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Henosis Sage
May 26, 2015, 11:43:20 PM5/26/15
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Why this is marked as abuse? It has been marked as abuse.
Report not abuse
On Tuesday, 26 May 2015 23:48:06 UTC+10, Kinpa wrote:
> I'm not lying, i screen shot the post you DELETED where you said that you HAD called the FBI..however, we BOTH know you haven't a case that would interest the FBI in the least....so you keep crying about it, while calling me various psychological terms, you show yourself to be the actual example of these conditions!
RE: " where you said that you HAD called the FBI..however,"
LOOK DUMB FUCK .. I NEVER CALLED THE FBI AND NEVER SAID I CALLED THE FBI
YOU ARE INSANE IF YOU BELIEVE THAT I DID
MORE TRASH TALK FROM THE RESIDENT A.R.E. PSYCHOTIC NUTCASE ....
WHY DO INSIST ON CONTINUALLY LYING ABOUT THINGS YOU SAY I HAVE DONE, OR SAID?
WHY DO YOU PUBLISH TO THE WHOLE WORLD THAT I "am a criminal" WHEN I AM NOT?
WHAT INSANITY AND DELSUIONS MAKE YOU BELIEVE YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO CLAIM ALL THE ENDLESS LIES
YOU KEEP SPEWING ABOUT ME?
ARE YOU FUCKING INSANE OR WHAT MATT SHARPE?
Do you even understand the question?
FUCK OFF, seriously!
You're an idiot.
I have been telling you and showing you the EVIDENCE FOR THIS FACT
since last Sept 2014.
RE: " where you said that you HAD called the FBI..however,"
LOOK DUMB FUCK .. I NEVER CALLED THE FBI AND NEVER SAID I CALLED THE FBI
YOU ARE INSANE IF YOU BELIEVE THAT I DID
MORE TRASH TALK FROM THE RESIDENT A.R.E. PSYCHOTIC NUTCASE ....
WHY DO INSIST ON CONTINUALLY LYING ABOUT THINGS YOU SAY I HAVE DONE, OR SAID?
WHY DO YOU PUBLISH TO THE WHOLE WORLD THAT I "am a criminal" WHEN I AM NOT?
WHAT INSANITY AND DELSUIONS MAKE YOU BELIEVE YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO CLAIM ALL THE ENDLESS LIES
YOU KEEP SPEWING ABOUT ME?
ARE YOU FUCKING INSANE OR WHAT MATT SHARPE?
Do you even understand the question?
FUCK OFF, seriously!
You're an idiot.
I have been telling you and showing you the EVIDENCE FOR THIS FACT
since last Sept 2014.
Henosis Sage
May 26, 2015, 11:54:21 PM5/26/15
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On Wednesday, 27 May 2015 10:48:31 UTC+10, Kinpa wrote:
> No, I am not in denial, everyone knows for a fact that Paul Twitchell plagiarised, which means that HE put the plagiarised words into Rebazar Tarzs mouth...simple fact proving not one thing, one way or the other about whether or not the man is real or fictional, it does not even address that question...YOU made the leap on that one, all by yourself, but the simple FACT is, that the one does NOT prove the other, and not by far....it is YOU that is in denial of TRUTH, because you cannot admit that FACT! But a fact it remains despite your OPINION....do you even understand the difference between an opinion, an assumption, and a provable FACT?
>
> I quote you here: "Therefore, "that" Rebazar Tarzs is likely a fiction. All of the false animations of Rebazar Tarzs using plagiarized words are also likely fictions. "
>
> See that word "likely"? Do you know what the word means? It means NOT fact! This is VERY simple stuff, and your so called logic is simply stepping out of place on this one and making a pure assumption that you CANNOT prove at all....an assumption CANNOT be a fact, and this also shows your own adherence to a double standard...I do not mind, it is yourself you make look foolish.....contact an attorney and ask them about the same thing...they will tell you what I have been telling you, that you do NOT have proof, so you CANNOT adopt your "likely" assumption as fact! No two ways about that one!
>
> You can't grasp this? Can't admit this? Because YOU are in denial???
>
> Ask a lawyer Richie...unless you're scared to...
MORE LUNACY FROM THE PSYCHOTIC MORON:
RE: "everyone knows for a fact that Paul Twitchell plagiarised,"
WRONG - EVERYONE (IN ECKANKAR OR THINKING OF JOINING ECKANKAR) DOES NOT KNOW !!!
YOU ARE FUCKING LIAR KINPA
RE: "No, I am not in denial,..."
OH FUCK YEAH YOU MOST CERTAINLY ARE IN DENIAL, AND ALSO DEEP INSIDE THE
MIDDLE OF A PSYCHOTIC STORM.
RE: "....contact an attorney and ask them about the same thing.."
SURE THING .. GIVE ME THEIR NAME, ADDRESS AND PHONE NUMBER, I WILL CALL THEM RIGHT NOW!
>
> I quote you here: "Therefore, "that" Rebazar Tarzs is likely a fiction. All of the false animations of Rebazar Tarzs using plagiarized words are also likely fictions. "
>
> See that word "likely"? Do you know what the word means? It means NOT fact! This is VERY simple stuff, and your so called logic is simply stepping out of place on this one and making a pure assumption that you CANNOT prove at all....an assumption CANNOT be a fact, and this also shows your own adherence to a double standard...I do not mind, it is yourself you make look foolish.....contact an attorney and ask them about the same thing...they will tell you what I have been telling you, that you do NOT have proof, so you CANNOT adopt your "likely" assumption as fact! No two ways about that one!
>
> You can't grasp this? Can't admit this? Because YOU are in denial???
>
> Ask a lawyer Richie...unless you're scared to...
MORE LUNACY FROM THE PSYCHOTIC MORON:
RE: "everyone knows for a fact that Paul Twitchell plagiarised,"
WRONG - EVERYONE (IN ECKANKAR OR THINKING OF JOINING ECKANKAR) DOES NOT KNOW !!!
YOU ARE FUCKING LIAR KINPA
RE: "No, I am not in denial,..."
OH FUCK YEAH YOU MOST CERTAINLY ARE IN DENIAL, AND ALSO DEEP INSIDE THE
MIDDLE OF A PSYCHOTIC STORM.
RE: "....contact an attorney and ask them about the same thing.."
SURE THING .. GIVE ME THEIR NAME, ADDRESS AND PHONE NUMBER, I WILL CALL THEM RIGHT NOW!
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Henosis Sage
May 27, 2015, 5:34:14 AM5/27/15
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On Wednesday, 27 May 2015 13:58:44 UTC+10, Kinpa wrote:
> So let me get this straight...you come in, screaming nutcasey shit, and calling names and yet you are NOT an insane nutbag??? LMAO! You have NO evidence of ANYTHING and any facts are even further from you...you cannot prove that Rebazar Tarzs does not exist, not even close, and neither can Etznab....get over yourselves...no one joins you here because you are an EMBARASSMENT to other former ECKists, a majority of whom have moved ON with their lives!
>
> You are a joke! And Etznab appears to be unable to not only be aware of what constitutes a truth, but also to show definitive and specific evidence proving that any of these Masters do not exist...when there is proof, there is NO "likely" it simply is or it is not!
>
> You are BOTH so attached to Eckankar and to your anti-ECK fundamentalism, that you soimply CANNOT walk away and leave me to my own devices, I disturb you far too much! THAT is what is SO hilarious about the both of you! Enjoy your slavery~!!!!
----------------
RE: "So let me get this straight...you come in, screaming nutcasey shit, and
calling names and yet you are NOT an insane nutbag???
That's correct. I am "not an insane nutbag". Well done, you got something for
the first time since Sept 2014. Have a lay down. You must be exhausted now.
RE: "you cannot prove that Rebazar Tarzs does not exist, not even close"
That's correct too! WOW. 2 of 2!
One can't prove a negative. You cannot prove that Rebazar Tazrs, or any eck
master beyond Twitchell, Gross and Klemp (as they do use that as a title)
exists.
What Twitchell claims rebazar tarzs said is untrue. what twitchel says rebazar
tazrs said about "eckankar" is untrue. That is provable, albeit obvious and
self-evident. what twitchell says rebazar tarzs says is eckankar is untrue and
becomes self-evident that "eckankar" as a teaching is untrue at it;s core, as
the basis for it being a religion is based upon what twitchell said, and that
was (based on prior known facts) untrue.
It's logic or common sense. Simple really. But don't get dizzy.
RE: "other former ECKists," blah blah .. a.r.e. died last decade. get over your delusions.
where's your 1400 supporters?
"None of them say a word because they won't waste their time on you! They DO watch every bit of it however, that is how so many witnessed your deleting threads yesterday...you must've gotten scared, and rightly so, but unfortunately for you I already had screen shots before I ever mentioned it to you, I'm smart like that, I don't like to do or say things that won't work in my favor... " = PARANOIC PSYCHOSIS YEAH?
"Every person that has read his rants here in the last 3 days asks if he is gay LOL..." = THAT'S JUST LYING OUTRIGHT. DELUSIONAL STILL.
re: "I disturb you far too much!" GRANDIOSITY & Schadenfreude
"Schadenfreude is pleasure derived from the misfortunes of others.[1] This word is taken from German and literally means "harm-joy". It is the feeling of joy or pleasure when one sees another fail or suffer misfortune. It is also borrowed by some other languages. An English term of similar meaning (but with no noun equivalent) is "to gloat"; which means to feel, or express, great, often malicious, pleasure, or self-satisfaction, at one's own success, or at another's failure."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schadenfreude
>
> You are a joke! And Etznab appears to be unable to not only be aware of what constitutes a truth, but also to show definitive and specific evidence proving that any of these Masters do not exist...when there is proof, there is NO "likely" it simply is or it is not!
>
> You are BOTH so attached to Eckankar and to your anti-ECK fundamentalism, that you soimply CANNOT walk away and leave me to my own devices, I disturb you far too much! THAT is what is SO hilarious about the both of you! Enjoy your slavery~!!!!
----------------
RE: "So let me get this straight...you come in, screaming nutcasey shit, and
calling names and yet you are NOT an insane nutbag???
That's correct. I am "not an insane nutbag". Well done, you got something for
the first time since Sept 2014. Have a lay down. You must be exhausted now.
RE: "you cannot prove that Rebazar Tarzs does not exist, not even close"
That's correct too! WOW. 2 of 2!
One can't prove a negative. You cannot prove that Rebazar Tazrs, or any eck
master beyond Twitchell, Gross and Klemp (as they do use that as a title)
exists.
What Twitchell claims rebazar tarzs said is untrue. what twitchel says rebazar
tazrs said about "eckankar" is untrue. That is provable, albeit obvious and
self-evident. what twitchell says rebazar tarzs says is eckankar is untrue and
becomes self-evident that "eckankar" as a teaching is untrue at it;s core, as
the basis for it being a religion is based upon what twitchell said, and that
was (based on prior known facts) untrue.
It's logic or common sense. Simple really. But don't get dizzy.
RE: "other former ECKists," blah blah .. a.r.e. died last decade. get over your delusions.
where's your 1400 supporters?
"None of them say a word because they won't waste their time on you! They DO watch every bit of it however, that is how so many witnessed your deleting threads yesterday...you must've gotten scared, and rightly so, but unfortunately for you I already had screen shots before I ever mentioned it to you, I'm smart like that, I don't like to do or say things that won't work in my favor... " = PARANOIC PSYCHOSIS YEAH?
"Every person that has read his rants here in the last 3 days asks if he is gay LOL..." = THAT'S JUST LYING OUTRIGHT. DELUSIONAL STILL.
re: "I disturb you far too much!" GRANDIOSITY & Schadenfreude
"Schadenfreude is pleasure derived from the misfortunes of others.[1] This word is taken from German and literally means "harm-joy". It is the feeling of joy or pleasure when one sees another fail or suffer misfortune. It is also borrowed by some other languages. An English term of similar meaning (but with no noun equivalent) is "to gloat"; which means to feel, or express, great, often malicious, pleasure, or self-satisfaction, at one's own success, or at another's failure."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schadenfreude
Henosis Sage
May 27, 2015, 5:48:08 AM5/27/15
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On Wednesday, 27 May 2015 14:05:36 UTC+10, Kinpa wrote:
> Look up a local one dolt! Or are you unable? I am not in any way in denial, and you are by no means able to determine if anyone is or is not, you are not even remotely sane! But feel free to believe what you wish! I have no problem with YOUR beliefs, but you BOTH are unable to say the same for anyone else...that is what makes you BOTH extreme fundamentalists! You can't even abide by your own standards for Eckankar! THAT makes you BOTH Liars! Not to mention Hippocrytes! Keep ranting away, because THAT makes you look sane and like you are mentally balanced....NOT! LMAO! You can't afford a lawyer, or you would simply call the one you claimed to have hired and you would prove me wrong, but that will never happen because I am right, you haven't the irrefutable evidence to prove what you CLAIM you can prove! LIAR! HA~! I'm STILL waiting for you to prove what YOU claim about Neville Goddard, OR prove that I EVER said he plagiarised! You CAN'T because I never did! You fail that challenge! DEAL WITH IT!
-------------------------------
re: " You can't afford a lawyer,"
I CAN AFFORD A LAWYER - NOT A WORRY - T'IS ALL GOOD
RE: "you are not even remotely sane! "
YES I AM SOLIDLY SANE AND RATIONAL. I'M A REALLY NICE GUY. VERY TOLERANT TOO.
BUT I DO NOT TAKE OFFENSIVE GARBAGE FROM AN IDIOT AND DO NOTHING.
RE: "you haven't the irrefutable evidence to prove what you CLAIM you can prove! "
YES I DO - IT'S SELF EVIDENT
RE: "I'm STILL waiting for you to prove what YOU claim about Neville Goddard, "
I DID NOT CLAIM ANYTHING ABOUT NEVILLE. YOU DID. I SAID WHAT YOU SAID WAS
CRAP. IT WAS WRONG AND NOT TRUE. YOU ASSERT TO HAVE PROVED IT BUT HAVE NOT.
CONSIDER HIRING A HOME CARE SUPPORT PERSON TO READ THINGS TO YOU AND PARSE THEIR MEANINGS? YOU ARE ALWAYS OFF IN A WORLD OF YOUR OWN BY ALL APPEARANCES.
YOU NEED HELP BECAUSE YOU DO NOT READ WHAT IS WRITTEN - THEN PUT FALSE WORDS
INTO OTHER PEOPLES MOUTHS - THAT'S REALLY PATHETIC
RE:" OR prove that I EVER said he plagiarised! "
I NEVER SAID YOU SAID PLAGIARISED BEFORE. YOU DID. (SHRUG)
-------------------------------
re: " You can't afford a lawyer,"
I CAN AFFORD A LAWYER - NOT A WORRY - T'IS ALL GOOD
RE: "you are not even remotely sane! "
YES I AM SOLIDLY SANE AND RATIONAL. I'M A REALLY NICE GUY. VERY TOLERANT TOO.
BUT I DO NOT TAKE OFFENSIVE GARBAGE FROM AN IDIOT AND DO NOTHING.
RE: "you haven't the irrefutable evidence to prove what you CLAIM you can prove! "
YES I DO - IT'S SELF EVIDENT
RE: "I'm STILL waiting for you to prove what YOU claim about Neville Goddard, "
I DID NOT CLAIM ANYTHING ABOUT NEVILLE. YOU DID. I SAID WHAT YOU SAID WAS
CRAP. IT WAS WRONG AND NOT TRUE. YOU ASSERT TO HAVE PROVED IT BUT HAVE NOT.
CONSIDER HIRING A HOME CARE SUPPORT PERSON TO READ THINGS TO YOU AND PARSE THEIR MEANINGS? YOU ARE ALWAYS OFF IN A WORLD OF YOUR OWN BY ALL APPEARANCES.
YOU NEED HELP BECAUSE YOU DO NOT READ WHAT IS WRITTEN - THEN PUT FALSE WORDS
INTO OTHER PEOPLES MOUTHS - THAT'S REALLY PATHETIC
RE:" OR prove that I EVER said he plagiarised! "
I NEVER SAID YOU SAID PLAGIARISED BEFORE. YOU DID. (SHRUG)
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Etznab
May 27, 2015, 10:08:04 AM5/27/15
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On Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 7:59:42 PM UTC-5, Kinpa wrote:
> You can give me what to YOU are very clear examples, however, as before, you simply can't prove ANY of it with any form of direct evidence...the idea is SIMPLE! No evidence? No proof! The conclusion is merely a belief or an opinion. There is nothing more to say about it...you can refuse to examine it in an objective fashion if you want to, I could care less, but the issue is OBVIOUSLY important to YOU! And again I notice that YOU cannot stand ANYONE having a different opinion...the quality of tolerance is one you are unfamiliar with...as I said before, you run along and believe whatever you would like, however, do NOT insist that I believe YOUR opinion otherwise I am in denial! That is the way of the coward, unable to present conclusive proof of whatever is the matter at hand....I have no use for your assumptions, so you may keep those, they belong to you, but this insistence of trying to force them upon me is yet another proof of your own fundamentalism....you and sean are exactly alike in that respect....
>
> No one else comes here to comment on any of this because they have made their own decisions and they simply don't care what anyone else chooses to do or to believe....even if they think any/all ECKists are deranged lunatics, that makes no difference, but you and sean egotistically have decided, without permission, to undertake the conversion of any who happen by, and THAT is truly a show of hubris...the two of you take the cake, and have any that I might possess beaten by miles and by the massive volume of your own...If you are unable to live with my disagreeing, then it is YOU who are chained, and the funny bit is, that in that way you are chained to Eckankar LOL! You simply cannot walk away and live a life outside of ARE and arguing with any ECKists that might be willing to speak to you....in this way you and sean are both rather like psychic vampires, needing a person to argue with that you may feed...you can deny this until you're blue in the face, but your words and actions show a much different picture...one that IS factual, and one that you are in denial over.....enjoy being chained to Eckankar for the rest of your life!
Already you know about the many examples of plagiarisms and words being put into the mouth of Rebazar Tarzs.
Already you know about examples of words said to come from Rebazar Tarzs and other masters / beings that earlier came from someone else who was NOT them!
According to you these are not a creation of pseudo history / religion? What then is your explanation?
Can you even respond? Because I think you've put yourself into a bind here?
Are you, Kinpa, telling me that Rebazar Tarzs plagiarized the words of those many authors?
>
> No one else comes here to comment on any of this because they have made their own decisions and they simply don't care what anyone else chooses to do or to believe....even if they think any/all ECKists are deranged lunatics, that makes no difference, but you and sean egotistically have decided, without permission, to undertake the conversion of any who happen by, and THAT is truly a show of hubris...the two of you take the cake, and have any that I might possess beaten by miles and by the massive volume of your own...If you are unable to live with my disagreeing, then it is YOU who are chained, and the funny bit is, that in that way you are chained to Eckankar LOL! You simply cannot walk away and live a life outside of ARE and arguing with any ECKists that might be willing to speak to you....in this way you and sean are both rather like psychic vampires, needing a person to argue with that you may feed...you can deny this until you're blue in the face, but your words and actions show a much different picture...one that IS factual, and one that you are in denial over.....enjoy being chained to Eckankar for the rest of your life!
Already you know about the many examples of plagiarisms and words being put into the mouth of Rebazar Tarzs.
Already you know about examples of words said to come from Rebazar Tarzs and other masters / beings that earlier came from someone else who was NOT them!
According to you these are not a creation of pseudo history / religion? What then is your explanation?
Can you even respond? Because I think you've put yourself into a bind here?
Are you, Kinpa, telling me that Rebazar Tarzs plagiarized the words of those many authors?
Message has been deleted
Etznab
May 27, 2015, 11:47:11 AM5/27/15
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On Monday, June 16, 2014 at 1:20:04 PM UTC-5, Kinpa wrote:
The fact of the matter is. Says Kinpa.
Is it a crime to having knowingly committed plagiarism and then deny it? And deny it repeatedly? Is it a crime to know about plagiarism and then deny it? And deny it repeatedly?
Notice how Kinpa after explaining "the fact of the matter is ..." then goes about mentioning David Lane; a person who exposed a lot of the plagiarisms and brought it (and many other things) to the attention of many.
Answer the question about whether Rebazar Tarzs was a plagiarist. Otherwise I think you are quitting the conversation because you can't handle the truth.
> the fact of the matter is, that plagiarism isnt actually a crime, therefore, no one can expect anyone to be liable for it at all....if one wants to speak on the terms of copyright infringement, that's fine, but DO, at the very least, call it what you actually mean by it, which happens to NOT be plagiarism at all....and, regardless of any actual answers to any of the questions presented, it IS undeniably amusing that David Lane WAS, in fact, convicted of copyright infringement, and yet Ford Johnson and so many others choose to selectively ignore that in favor of trying to lay blame on Paul Twitchell....it is what it is, but it sure IS funny either way lol, at least it is to me :o)
>
> Is Harold Klemp bound, legally speaking, to mention plagiarism? this question must FIRST be examined and answered, for otherwise the preceding question has no basis or importance whatsoever....2000 years ago when anyone wrote a thing, whether a book, story or opinion, they for the most part refused to take credit, and rather credited the writing to some other person....are these individuals also to blame for telling an untruth? how can they be held any less responsible than you are holding Harold Klemp for the instances in the works of Eckankar? it IS virtually the same thing, and while on the topic who has ever held any previous world saint liable for using teachings that did not originate from themselves, but were used anyways in the Way that they used to come by spiritual realization? who is creating these standards that are being used to hold anyone accountable for anything? this standard simply didnt exist at all before the 1960's, and by that im stating it in a much wider and more inclusive way to cover all examples, although by and large it is a creation of the internet, and the ease we NOW have of looking at and comparing stories, myths, legends, spiritual teachings/experiences, from many ages and all around the world....that HAS to be included in this standard of judging or one simply isnt being honest in doing so, selectively including convenient points of view while ignoring the inconvenient ones...
>
> In the end, anyone is left the way they started, on their own, at judging when or how Paul came by the words of Rebazar Tarzs, it IS another individual's reported experience, nothing more...take it or leave it...nothing wrong with asking questions, but if you want to do so, include ALL of the data and then report honestly....no one ever knows for a direct fact, that ANY world saint ever had the experiences they claim, that is a thing that simply CANT be proven, regardless of the individual claiming, or the one asking the questions, both have NO choice but to accept that fact as the reality of it, because nothing is ever going to change it. it is what it is.
>
> Why look for someone to lay blame upon? arent YOU, and no one else, responsible for what YOU think/feel/believe/disbelieve/accept/choose not to accept, all the way across the board? how can anyone else EVER be to blame for that? we all have free will, and we are all responsible for ourselves and the choices we make, regardless of the reasons, the blame ALWAYS comes home to roost, there is no way out of that.
>
> again, not meant to be a personal statement against you, but more of a general all inclusive one, meaning it fits for all regardless of what their point of view about PT or Eckankar, or anything else in the world might be.
"... the fact of the matter is, that plagiarism isnt actually a crime, therefore, no one can expect anyone to be liable for it at all....if one wants to speak on the terms of copyright infringement, that's fine, but DO, at the very least, call it what you actually mean by it, which happens to NOT be plagiarism at all...."
>
> Is Harold Klemp bound, legally speaking, to mention plagiarism? this question must FIRST be examined and answered, for otherwise the preceding question has no basis or importance whatsoever....2000 years ago when anyone wrote a thing, whether a book, story or opinion, they for the most part refused to take credit, and rather credited the writing to some other person....are these individuals also to blame for telling an untruth? how can they be held any less responsible than you are holding Harold Klemp for the instances in the works of Eckankar? it IS virtually the same thing, and while on the topic who has ever held any previous world saint liable for using teachings that did not originate from themselves, but were used anyways in the Way that they used to come by spiritual realization? who is creating these standards that are being used to hold anyone accountable for anything? this standard simply didnt exist at all before the 1960's, and by that im stating it in a much wider and more inclusive way to cover all examples, although by and large it is a creation of the internet, and the ease we NOW have of looking at and comparing stories, myths, legends, spiritual teachings/experiences, from many ages and all around the world....that HAS to be included in this standard of judging or one simply isnt being honest in doing so, selectively including convenient points of view while ignoring the inconvenient ones...
>
> In the end, anyone is left the way they started, on their own, at judging when or how Paul came by the words of Rebazar Tarzs, it IS another individual's reported experience, nothing more...take it or leave it...nothing wrong with asking questions, but if you want to do so, include ALL of the data and then report honestly....no one ever knows for a direct fact, that ANY world saint ever had the experiences they claim, that is a thing that simply CANT be proven, regardless of the individual claiming, or the one asking the questions, both have NO choice but to accept that fact as the reality of it, because nothing is ever going to change it. it is what it is.
>
> Why look for someone to lay blame upon? arent YOU, and no one else, responsible for what YOU think/feel/believe/disbelieve/accept/choose not to accept, all the way across the board? how can anyone else EVER be to blame for that? we all have free will, and we are all responsible for ourselves and the choices we make, regardless of the reasons, the blame ALWAYS comes home to roost, there is no way out of that.
>
> again, not meant to be a personal statement against you, but more of a general all inclusive one, meaning it fits for all regardless of what their point of view about PT or Eckankar, or anything else in the world might be.
The fact of the matter is. Says Kinpa.
Is it a crime to having knowingly committed plagiarism and then deny it? And deny it repeatedly? Is it a crime to know about plagiarism and then deny it? And deny it repeatedly?
Notice how Kinpa after explaining "the fact of the matter is ..." then goes about mentioning David Lane; a person who exposed a lot of the plagiarisms and brought it (and many other things) to the attention of many.
Answer the question about whether Rebazar Tarzs was a plagiarist. Otherwise I think you are quitting the conversation because you can't handle the truth.
Message has been deleted
Henosis Sage
May 27, 2015, 12:39:55 PM5/27/15
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On Wednesday, 27 May 2015 23:38:35 UTC+10, Kinpa wrote:
> >
> > "Every person that has read his rants here in the last 3 days asks if he is gay LOL..." = THAT'S JUST LYING OUTRIGHT. DELUSIONAL STILL.
> >
> > re: "I disturb you far too much!" GRANDIOSITY & Schadenfreude
> > "Schadenfreude is pleasure derived from the misfortunes of others.[1] This word is taken from German and literally means "harm-joy". It is the feeling of joy or pleasure when one sees another fail or suffer misfortune. It is also borrowed by some other languages. An English term of similar meaning (but with no noun equivalent) is "to gloat"; which means to feel, or express, great, often malicious, pleasure, or self-satisfaction, at one's own success, or at another's failure."
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schadenfreude
>
> Still whining? "Note how the psychic vampire desperately needs someone to argue with and vent upon, this is the only way one of these is able to feed. When one is unable to feed for an extended time, they will invariably turn on their cohorts in an attempt to fill that spot in their lives."
> >
> > "Every person that has read his rants here in the last 3 days asks if he is gay LOL..." = THAT'S JUST LYING OUTRIGHT. DELUSIONAL STILL.
> >
> > re: "I disturb you far too much!" GRANDIOSITY & Schadenfreude
> > "Schadenfreude is pleasure derived from the misfortunes of others.[1] This word is taken from German and literally means "harm-joy". It is the feeling of joy or pleasure when one sees another fail or suffer misfortune. It is also borrowed by some other languages. An English term of similar meaning (but with no noun equivalent) is "to gloat"; which means to feel, or express, great, often malicious, pleasure, or self-satisfaction, at one's own success, or at another's failure."
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schadenfreude
>
>
> Good luck with that! Also, the rampant posting of wikipedia psychology isn't helping your case any, but we all know that you are addicted and unable to step away, have fun with that, I know that I do...
---------------
PSYCHIC VAMPIRES? WTF?
(shaking my head)
Henosis Sage
May 27, 2015, 12:42:59 PM5/27/15
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Why this is marked as abuse? It has been marked as abuse.
Report not abuse
On Thursday, 28 May 2015 01:44:43 UTC+10, Kinpa wrote:
> >
> > Can you even respond? Because I think you've put yourself into a bind here?
> >
> > Are you, Kinpa, telling me that Rebazar Tarzs plagiarized the words of those many authors?
>
> No Richie, I am in no bind....why are you so insistent? did I say that Rebazar Tarzs plagiarised? Why do you and sean have such an attachment to plagiarisms? I notice you are trying to change the subject when the fact of the matter is, you are STILL insisting your OPINION is factual, when you have no evidence to support it....hmm..isn't that the same thing you accuse all ECKists of doing? Sort of funny how your accusations are more accurate when applied to yourself...the denial is strong in you, but no one really cares a lot, you are the only person that has to live with it on a daily basis....oh yes, you are most certainly chained to Eckankar! How is that treating you? Going around in circles are you?
> >
> > Can you even respond? Because I think you've put yourself into a bind here?
> >
> > Are you, Kinpa, telling me that Rebazar Tarzs plagiarized the words of those many authors?
>
----------------
RE ".hmm..isn't that the same thing you accuse all ECKists of doing?"
FUCK OFF - I DO NOT HAVE NOT ACCUSED ALL ECKISTS [or any eckists] OF DOING ANYTHING.
YOU'RE A FUCKING LIAR AGAIN.
WHAT AN ASSHOLE WANKER YOU ARE. A COMPLETE IDIOT.
Etznab
May 27, 2015, 3:17:10 PM5/27/15
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On Wednesday, May 27, 2015 at 11:09:36 AM UTC-5, Kinpa wrote:
> Of course you do, you aren't smart enough to engage in a useful conversation...again, that is a personal problem having nothing to do with me, regardless of what you insist.....you've got nothing, as has always been the case..making a mountain out of plagiarism by assuming it means a list of other things that you can't prove...yeah, do what you've got to do and believe anything you would like!
We can't have intelligent conversations when you deny the truth. It leaves only the options for you to deny, blame and name call. And this undermines your own integrity here. Try standing on a level field where the truth is welcome and no matter from whom it comes.
Look at and read your posts over the past several months. Count the number of times that you couldn't handle the truth, but had to insist on making things up that aren't true in order to post a conversation here.
This is the problem, I told you. And is not the solution. It has been the problem ever since a.r.e. began. Now here you are riding for your own brand of denial, blame and name calling. All the while lying more by pretending to be white as snow. Every single lie, slander, swear, denial and disrespect from you spit onto the a.r.e. group is here for people to see and it is compounding because you can't seem to write a post without denying the truth, without blaming and calling other people names. Worst of all, you try to put your own faults onto others because why? Because you can handle the fact of being wrong?
Look at the accusations you throw at others. They are so many from your own mind and, like many here before you on a.r.e., that made statements about others that were false. Repeatedly!
Now I suggest you are not going to earn a lot of respect without looking at the truth in an unbiased way. We're not here to play favorites, but to uncover the pseudo history and religion created by Paul Twitchell and promoted by Eckankar because it is WRONG to deceive people for profit, prestige and monetary gain. IMO, it should not be encouraged because it is the problem and not the solution.
Post what you will, but I will continue to call you on the lies and remind you every time you act like a troll. I will do this because you deserve to have the karma returned to you now. It is a sign of mercy and caring on my part to teach you how to act more maturely and respectful of others.
We can't have intelligent conversations when you deny the truth. It leaves only the options for you to deny, blame and name call. And this undermines your own integrity here. Try standing on a level field where the truth is welcome and no matter from whom it comes.
Look at and read your posts over the past several months. Count the number of times that you couldn't handle the truth, but had to insist on making things up that aren't true in order to post a conversation here.
This is the problem, I told you. And is not the solution. It has been the problem ever since a.r.e. began. Now here you are riding for your own brand of denial, blame and name calling. All the while lying more by pretending to be white as snow. Every single lie, slander, swear, denial and disrespect from you spit onto the a.r.e. group is here for people to see and it is compounding because you can't seem to write a post without denying the truth, without blaming and calling other people names. Worst of all, you try to put your own faults onto others because why? Because you can handle the fact of being wrong?
Look at the accusations you throw at others. They are so many from your own mind and, like many here before you on a.r.e., that made statements about others that were false. Repeatedly!
Now I suggest you are not going to earn a lot of respect without looking at the truth in an unbiased way. We're not here to play favorites, but to uncover the pseudo history and religion created by Paul Twitchell and promoted by Eckankar because it is WRONG to deceive people for profit, prestige and monetary gain. IMO, it should not be encouraged because it is the problem and not the solution.
Post what you will, but I will continue to call you on the lies and remind you every time you act like a troll. I will do this because you deserve to have the karma returned to you now. It is a sign of mercy and caring on my part to teach you how to act more maturely and respectful of others.
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Etznab
Jun 8, 2015, 10:57:40 AM6/8/15
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Your response begins with: "the fact of the matter is ..."
Again I will ask. You're not the Eckankar P.R. person?
Are you?
A little longer version to refresh the memory.
"the fact of the matter is, that plagiarism isnt actually a crime, therefore, no one can expect anyone to be liable for it at all....if one wants to speak on the terms of copyright infringement, that's fine, but DO, at the very least, call it what you actually mean by it, which happens to NOT be plagiarism at all...."
IMO, your language is what a P.R. person might do. Minimize the plagiarisms, iow the "whole ball of wax" and then try to pin it on another.
Did anybody respond to your comments back then. Yea, they did. And I believe it true much of the discussion was not just about plagiarism.
For example:
"And when Harold spoke for Rebazar Tarzs?
"And when Kinpa spoke for Rebazar Tarzs?
"That's more than plagiarism. And also more than plagiarism when Paul spoke for Rebazar Tarzs; and all the other self-made gurus with their own websites also speaking for Rebazar Tarzs.
"This is more than simply plagiarism."
Kinpa, is this what you really have an issue with? A reminder of what Eckankar masters reportedly did? or did not say? Because this is not the liability of anybody but the creators and those who perpetuate the creations; whether by the act of reproductions and / or sales.
So people have simply put forth questions to many of the reports. Was it really an Eck master that said so and so, etc., etc.?
People have written books and given so many illustrated examples. And, as you are already familiar, people here at a.r.e. have been discussing such things.
On your return here to a.r.e. how did you respond?
This thread is a reminder about that.
"It means that Paul Twitchell plagiarised, and that is ALL it means, unless you can prove that it means any other thing, which thus far you have been unable to do...It's a very simple matter..."
Umm ... I believe people were here at a.r.e. looking into what it all means for a number of years now. And I saw on several occasions already that one of your opinions was how plagiarism only amounts to plagiarism.
There is a pattern running throughout your posts that I have seen, with respect to responses to specific information and queries. That resembling a number of specific "talking points".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talking_point
I am confident it can be shown what the more popular points have been here. Not only "talking points" by you, but by Doug and others over the years. This is not very hard to do because the text has preserved a record of it already.
Etznab
Jan 9, 2016, 11:45:23 PM1/9/16
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Henosis Sage
Jan 15, 2016, 10:32:02 PM1/15/16
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Well well well, now how did 21 plus posts get deleted here, and only recently????
*twinkle*
Did Kinpa dial--a-cleaner ....???
....
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