Debating The John F. Kennedy Assassination (Part 25)
David Von Pein
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SUBJECT -- The JFK Assassination: The Ongoing "Lone Assassin vs.
Conspiracy" Debate.
FEATURED TEXT -- Archived JFK Forum Messages From June 2006, July
2006, October 2006, November 2006, and December 2006.
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CTer (A CONSPIRACY THEORIST) -- The best piece of evidence of a
conspiracy is the way JFK's head jerks backward after being shot.
DVP (DAVID VON PEIN) -- The "head snap to the rear" is totally
meaningless, because of the medical/autopsy evidence associated with
President John F. Kennedy's head wound, to wit.....
1.) One entry wound (on the back of JFK's head).
2.) One exit wound (chiefly located on the right side of JFK's head).
3.) Bullet fragment from Lee Harvey Oswald's gun recovered from JFK's
head.
4.) Oswald's gun was located to the REAR of the President's car during
the entire shooting timeline on November 22, 1963.
Adding #1 through #4 = A frontal head shot is not even REMOTELY
possible, regardless of President Kennedy's head movements after he
was shot.
JFK's head could have performed a Linda Blair imitation and spun
around thirteen times after the bullet hit him, and it still wouldn't
have altered the verifiable entry and exit wounds on his head that
were documented at the President's autopsy.
But CTers love to isolate the "Back And To The Left" motion of JFK's
head, instead of looking at the autopsy photos and autopsy report
which verify that JUST ONE BULLET hit Kennedy in the head. And that
one bullet positively came from behind.
JFK Conspiracy Kooks = Isolationists of the worst kind.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/e2a229774508e859
http://www.jfk-online.com/jfk100menu.html
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CTer -- Almost everything you propose {re. JFK's throat wound being
one of exit} should be dismissed immediately.
DVP -- Why do gobs of CTers always leave their common sense at the
door when it comes to so many different aspects of the JFK
assassination?
Simple Math 101:
1.) An entry (bullet) wound in JFK's back.
2.) A bullet wound in JFK's throat.
3.) No bullets in the body.
4.) No bones hit in body that would stop a bullet.
Logical solution = A bullet went clean through JFK's neck.
Give me something MORE logical from the CT perspective. I'd love to
hear it. Should I hold my breath waiting though?
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CTer -- If it was actually Oswald, then several other people were seen
on the 6th floor as well, which also means conspiracy by definition.
DVP -- It most certainly means nothing of the kind. If it DID mean
that (and couldn't be anything else BUT "conspiracy"), we'd therefore
have to say that Bonnie Ray Williams is definitely a conspirator as
well (which, of course, is nonsense), since he WAS on the 6th Floor of
the Depository eating his lunch shortly before the assassination, and
was very likely seen by some witnesses on the ground before leaving
the sixth floor at approximately 12:15 PM.
The "Multiple People On The 6th Floor Prior To 12:30 PM" theory does
NOT automatically equal "conspiracy". Never has. And there's not a
single witness who claims to have seen MULTIPLE RIFLES on the 6th
Floor. There was one man, holding one rifle. And that one man was
(without question, IMO) Lee Harvey Oswald.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/182cecc7c4e37bb2
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CTer -- The killer would not need to run if he knew that the police
were going to blame the murder on Lee Oswald.
DVP -- This would, of course, assume that (somehow) EVERY policeman
near Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63 had been "in" on the "Let's Frame
Oswald" plot.
Because if just ONE cop wasn't "in" on this massive plot, and that one
cop ran into the real killer with a smoking gun....what do the CT-
Kooks think would have happened next?
The kooks will probably answer -- 'That cop's days are numbered;
probably numbering in single digits.'
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/d52845e6c744cccf
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CTer -- The fear increased when the cops took him {Howard Brennan} to
police headquarters and "warned" him that they couldn't keep his
identity secret and he and his family could be in great danger.
DVP -- Did the DPD use this same "warned of danger" process on all of
the J.D. Tippit witnesses too? Is that why those witnesses identified
Oswald as a murderer on 11/22/63, too?
Or did the so-called crooked cops just get lucky when their lone patsy
in the Kennedy case just happened to ACTUALLY kill a person on the
very same day the police were in the process of setting him up as a
patsy in the President's death?
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CTer -- He {Howard Brennan} knew Lee was not the man whom he had seen
with a rifle.
DVP -- It was very nice of Brennan to provide a pretty fair
description of the "patsy" in his 11/22/63 affidavit, though, wasn't
it?
I guess both Brennan and the Patsy-Framers just got lucky (yet again)
when the description Brennan provided in his initial November 22
affidavit just happened to be a description which did NOT EXCLUDE THE
PATSY.
Sure, I realize Brennan's affidavit description isn't spot-on perfect
for Oswald -- but it's very doubtful that any description from a
witness under those circumstances would be absolutely 100% perfect.
Howard Brennan was giving GENERALITIES concerning the man he saw in
the sniper's window. Brennan didn't have a tape measure or a weighing
scale handy at the time (with which to verify every last detail).
Brennan, on November 22nd, described a "white man" (which Oswald
was) .... "slender" (which Oswald was) .... "early 30s" (Oswald looked
older than 24, IMO, and possibly in Brennan's opinion too) .... 5'10"
in height (Oswald was 5'9").
Brennan's "weight" figure was too high, true...but at the SAME time he
described the man as "slender", which Oswald certainly was.
Pretty fortunate for all concerned, huh? It was certainly fortunate
for Brennan (if he was really a liar later on, as most CTers seem to
think). And it was fortunate for those ever-lucky Patsy-Framers, in
that Brennan didn't happen to describe a "black man; age 50; 6'2"; 210
lbs.; with a beard".
The luck never runs out for those conspirators it seems. They must
have had a patent on it.
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CTer -- {Bonnie Ray} Williams was presented with what sounds like a
direct quote from Brennan, the gist of which was that he, Brennan, had
seen Williams on the 5th floor, but Williams denied that Brennan had
pointed him out.
DVP -- It looks like the "Let's Blame Anybody Except Oswald" club and
the CT-Kook's "Hairsplitters" club are meeting at the same time now
(via the above idiocy).
Fact is -- Brennan POSITIVELY IDENTIFIED two people who were just one
floor below Oswald in the TSBD.
Jarman, Williams, and Norman were all in the windows on the 5th
Floor....with Jarman just one window to the west of the others.
Even if Brennan had only IDed ONE of the black men he had seen, it
would be enough to PROVE that a person COULD positively identify
another human being located on the upper Depository floors from
Brennan's vantage point across Elm Street.
Any more hairs you kooks care to split? And after splitting those, you
can then split the split hairs. That oughta be fun too.
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CTer -- One photo was taken of a bullet being recovered that is
nowhere in evidence.
DVP -- Kook Logic at its finest. Something that is "nowhere in
evidence" is considered a prime reason for certain CTers to disbelieve
something else (i.e., Oswald's lone guilt) that has all of the stuff
that IS in evidence favoring its likelihood.
Badge Man and "his" shot are "nowhere in evidence" either....so let's
make believe a bullet came out of BM's gun and went into JFK's brain.
Sound reasonable?
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CTer -- Simple. More than one shooter.
DVP -- Here we have the "Kook Double Standard"....i.e., CT clowns
require detailed SBT re-creations from LNers to show that the SBT is
doable. And when a very-acceptable re-creation does come along (the
2004 "Beyond The Magic Bullet" test in Australia, which proved to a
reasonable certainty that the SBT is possible), CTers say "Not good
enough! It's gotta be more accurate! Start again!".
But when I ask a CTer for a much-less-demanding verbal item, such as
some type of logical (and at least semi-detailed) anti-SBT shooting
scenario, here's the type of response I'm treated to:
"Simple. More than one shooter."
Gotta love those CTers. They never fail to fail the "logic" test.
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CTer -- The cigarette package and the cigarette butts that were
removed from the sniper's nest could NOT have been left there by
Oswald...because Oswald did not smoke.
DVP -- It sure was stupid of those "real killers" to leave cigarette
remnants in the Sniper's Nest when they knew (or should have known,
what with their keeping constant tabs on their patsy in the months
leading up to the murder) that Oswald did not smoke. Silly mistake
indeed, huh?
In the final analysis, however, cigarette butts and a Viceroy package
in the SN in no way lets Oswald off the hook...and if you think it
does, you're crazy.
Did anybody search the rest of the sixth floor, to see if there were
discarded cigarette remnants elsewhere on that floor?
That "warehouse" floor of the TSBD was described as dusty and dirty
(hence, not exactly bound to make Good Housekeeping magazine as a
prime example of tidiness). Cigarette butts could have very well been
all over the place, and not just in the SN.
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DVP -- The JFK Assassination....In Verse:
A one-patsy plot featuring more than one gun?
Why would that plan be needed to get the job done?
Did the plotters get lucky when Oswald wouldn't crack?
Or could it be true that Lee really did kill Jack?
The Z-Film, the photos, the gun, and every shell...
Is there ANYTHING in this case that kooks think doesn't smell?
A plot of this size was a pretty big job...
How many were there -- an Army-sized mob?
Is there any coherence to any kook's plots?
I kinda doubt it -- they've got from 4 to 12 shots!
Did Badge Man really fire the head shot that day?
And if he did -- where's the BOH spray?
I have a strong feeling the conspiracy end is near...
Because Bugliosi is coming -- and he's an LNer kooks should fear.
~wink~
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/cfb02505fe1534df
luthie...@yahoo.com
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/discussions/start-thread.ht...
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/discussions/start-thread.ht...
>
> -------------------------------------------
>
> CTer -- {Bonnie Ray} Williams was presented with what sounds like a
> direct quote from Brennan, the gist of which was that he, Brennan, had
> seen Williams on the 5th floor, but Williams denied that Brennan had
> pointed him out.
>
> DVP -- It looks like the "Let's Blame Anybody Except Oswald" club and
> the CT-Kook's "Hairsplitters" club are meeting at the same time now
> (via the above idiocy).
>
> Fact is -- Brennan POSITIVELY IDENTIFIED two people who were just one
> floor below Oswald in the TSBD.
>
> Jarman, Williams, and Norman were all in the windows on the 5th
> Floor....with Jarman just one window to the west of the others.
>
> Even if Brennan had only IDed ONE of the black men he had seen, it
> would be enough to PROVE that a person COULD positively identify
> another human being located on the upper Depository floors from
> Brennan's vantage point across Elm Street.
>
> Any more hairs you kooks care to split? And after splitting those, you
> can then split the split hairs. That oughta be fun too.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/discussions/start-thread.ht...
>
> -------------------------------------------
>
> CTer -- One photo was taken of a bullet being recovered that is
> nowhere in evidence.
>
> DVP -- Kook Logic at its finest. Something that is "nowhere in
> evidence" is considered a prime reason for certain CTers to disbelieve
> something else (i.e., Oswald's lone guilt) that has all of the stuff
> that IS in evidence favoring its likelihood.
>
> Badge Man and "his" shot are "nowhere in evidence" either....so let's
> make believe a bullet came out of BM's gun and went into JFK's brain.
> Sound reasonable?
>
> -------------------------------------------
>
> CTer -- Simple. More than one shooter.
>
> DVP -- Here we have the "Kook Double Standard"....i.e., CT clowns
> require detailed SBT re-creations from LNers to show that the SBT is
> doable. And when a very-acceptable re-creation does come along (the
> 2004 "Beyond The Magic Bullet" test in Australia, which proved to a
> reasonable certainty that the SBT is possible), CTers say "Not good
> enough! It's gotta be more accurate! Start again!".
>
> But when I ask a CTer for a much-less-demanding verbal item, such as
> some type of logical (and at least semi-detailed) anti-SBT shooting
> scenario, here's the type of response I'm treated to:
>
> "Simple. More than one shooter."
>
> Gotta love those CTers. They never fail to fail the "logic" test.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/discussionboard/discussion.html/ref=cm_rdp_s...
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/discussions/start-thread.ht...
>
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/discussions/start-thread.ht...
David Von Pein
Anybody else sense the (dictionary-based) irony here?