JFK Assassination Forum Archives -- Misc. Topics Of Interest (Part 195)

[David Von Pein]

ARCHIVED JFK ASSASSINATION FORUM POSTS OF INTEREST (PART 195):

======================================================


THE INACCURACY OF EARLY NEWS REPORTS:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/9c3150ca90eab731


THE CONDITION OF OSWALD'S RIFLE:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/c9297c605fb6deae


OSWALD IN MEXICO AND THE CIA:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/msg/2ff3be3d2a9a20e3


ROBERT F. KENNEDY:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/79d86de391ddaf1a


WILLIAM W. WHALEY:
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19837&st=30#entry264819


THE BULLET FRAGMENTS IN THE LIMO:
http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,7454.msg210891.html#msg210891


"THE TRIAL OF LEE HARVEY OSWALD" (1964 FILM):
http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,7550.msg214546.html#msg214546


THE WOUND IN PRESIDENT KENNEDY'S BACK:
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19866&st=60#entry266019


JIM DiEUGENIO:
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19866&st=75#entry266053
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19866&st=75#entry266057


MARRION BAKER AND CE3076:
http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,7521.msg213894.html#msg213894
http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,7521.msg214156.html#msg214156
http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,7521.msg214188.html#msg214188
http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,7521.msg214215.html#msg214215


MISCELLANY:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/msg/ce33d7a8e6056330
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/28912aa604fa1f15
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/559dee4f5ee69762
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/1f6990732e3a099b
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/2e830ea255b9d880
http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,7454.msg210914.html#msg210914


======================================================

[aeffects]

On Feb 1, 9:38 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:

<snip the chicken pluckers lone nut bullshit>

you know the rules moron!

[David Von Pein]

http://EducationForum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19866&st=90#entry266065

DANIEL GALLUP SAID:

[Paul] O'Connor, were he alive today, would be quite surprised to hear
that you know more about what he saw that night at Bethesda than he
does.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Right back at ya, Daniel:

Dr. James J. Humes, were he alive today, would be quite surprised to
hear that you know more about what he saw that night at Bethesda than
he does.

Touche.

Or aren't I allowed to use Dr. Humes in my above "back at ya"
argument, due to the fact that you believe Humes was a rotten and
despicable liar who lied about everything under the sun concerning the
autopsy report that he attached his signature to? (Although he
evidently told the truth about the casket arriving at 6:45 PM, which
is kind of odd since Humes is one of the key conspirators and "cover-
up" operatives associated with this crazy multi-casket operation at
Bethesda, don't you think?)

Well, okay, let me use Dr. Boswell then:

"The President arrived wrapped in sheets and a pillowcase around
his head." -- Dr. J. Thornton Boswell; ARRB Testimony; February 26,
1996

Was Boswell still telling a bunch of lies in 1996, Daniel?


DANIEL GALLUP SAID:

The plotters were not stupid but constrained by time and available
resources. Stealing a body and covertly removing bullets not
associated with Oswald's gun is not something that is practiced every
day, and mistakes were made.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

So, you think the Walter Reed body-alteration crew was forced to "wing
it" when it came to the casket AND the body wrappings, eh?

They obviously COULD have simply wrapped JFK's altered body in the
very same sheets that the body was wrapped in when the body-alteration
crew took control of the body. But, instead, they decided it was a
good idea to wrap the body in a body bag and discard the sheets
altogether. (Who's gonna notice, right?)

And the simpletons at Walter Reed apparently thought that a cheap pink
shipping casket would probably be a close enough match to replicating
the casket that JFK left Parkland in, so the goofs at Walter Reed went
with the cheap shipping casket too. (Again--who's gonna notice or care
about the fact that Kennedy left Parkland in a nice expensive casket,
but arrived at Bethesda in a coffin that would be better suited for
Dracula's use in a 1950s Hammer horror film directed by Freddie
Francis? Right?)

I love it.


DANIEL GALLUP SAID:

Regarding Humes' testimony under oath for the ARRB and the time he
first saw the President's body -- 6:45 p.m. -- that didn't raise your
interest? Didn't I show support for Humes by offering this testimony?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

But he lied when he said this in 1964, right Dan?....

"The President's body was...wrapped in a sheet labeled by the
Parkland Hospital." -- Dr. James J. Humes

[aeffects]

[David Von Pein]

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19926&#entry266719

LEN OSANIC SAID:

Here is a forwarded question from Jeff Carter:

"Watching same-day TV coverage of the assassination and I am curious
when Oswald was first identified by name in the media. The earliest I
have found is interesting. .... Footage [linked below] originates from
ABC's network studio in New York, where news anchor Don Goddard is on
camera with network VP and former Eisenhower press man James Hagerty.

http://dvp-video-audio-archive.blogspot.com/2012/03/jfk-assassination-wfaa-tv.html

Over the course of several segments, Hagerty had been making a case
that this has the appearance of a well-planned conspiracy. He is
finishing up a discussion of the difficulties of Secret Service
protection in large-city motorcades when Goddard says: "Well, this
adds one to the case for conspiracy then. And the Dallas Police are
apparently trying to add another--they have arrested a 24-year-old
man, Lee Oswald, in connection with a slaying of a Dallas policeman
and presumably also the slaying of a secret service man in another
part of Dallas which happened shortly before the President…"

Hagerty inhales and cuts Goddard off to praise quick reaction by the
Secret Service in speeding away from Dealey Plaza. (Based on
eyewitness report from ABC reporter Bob Clark, who also interestingly
said that the motorcade came to a complete halt, which Hagerty does
not mention). (The story of a dead Secret Service man has been
attached to the news from Oak Cliff up to this time, but soon is
dropped.)

This sequence occurs soon after Zapruder's appearance on the local
affiliate (WFAA-TV), which began approx. 2:10 PM CST -- so the Oswald
ID as delivered by Goddard happens somewhere between 2:20 - 2:25 PM
CST (certainly before 2:30). Not only that, Goddard appears to read
this information from a piece of paper which has been sitting before
him since they returned to air immediately following Zapruder.

Interestingly, the local affiliate WFAA follows up about a half hour
later with information attributed to DPD captain Pat Gannaway that the
"suspect" worked at the TSBD and lived in Russia (WFAA Part 14 [again
see the link above]). Oswald's name and age are not mentioned.

Would this mean that Oswald's name and age was available to ABC's
network office in NYC before it was announced to reporters in Dallas?"

==========================================

WILLIAM KELLY SAID (QUOTING FROM AN E-MAIL WRITTEN BY GARY MACK):

http://www.jfk.org/go/collections/about/zapruder-film-chronology

The Zapruder appearance time is exact, according to tapes and other
documentation at The Sixth Floor Museum [see link above]. The very
first media mention of Oswald by name came at 3:46 Dallas time. The
ABC clip posted (from Dave Von Pein's site!) aired much later than the
Zapruder interview.

Gary

==========================================

LEN OSANIC SAID:

A follow-up from Jeff Carter:

"I don't necessarily want to question the knowledge of folks who have
spent a lot more time with this footage, but what is available and
listed as WFAA-TV Part 10-Part 11 (posted on YouTube) has the
appearance of being contiguous, even as it fades after the Zapruder
interview as the anchor says they are returning to NY.

The reasons for saying this are that a) Jim Hagerty does not appear
again after this segment; b) the following sequence after returning to
the Dallas station features the host [making] direct reference to
Hagerty's comments about the bubble-top; c) they are still referring
to a rifle found on the "fifth floor".

None of this is consistent with this segment being done "much later",
and a "much later" segment being pasted in is not consistent with how
this footage plays out (i.e. it doesn't seem to happen anywhere else).

It may be simply an academic point, but I believe this is strong
evidence that Lee Oswald's name first crossed the airwaves here on ABC-
TV at around 2:40 PM CST. If so, there is an irony in that Oswald's
name is contained in a sentence which also conatins the word
"conspiracy". ABC was the least watched network that day, but they
scored some scoops."

==========================================

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

FYI---

I did make some edits during my 50-part WFAA-TV video series. And also
keep in mind that all of that WFAA footage comes from a 1983 WFAA
retrospective program entitled "The Kennedy Tapes", hosted by Tracy
Rowlett.

And that '83 program, while containing a lot of "long form" segments
of uncut WFAA footage from November 1963, also has been heavily edited
in many areas, with Rowlett filling in gaps along the way with brief
narration before moving on to another section of "long form" coverage.
As I recall, however, the majority of the extensive editing comes
later in the "Kennedy Tapes" program, during the November 23-25
segments.

The "fade out" that was mentioned above (right after Mr. Zapruder's
complete 2:31 PM CST interview) is one that I definitely remember
putting in myself. That's not an '83 edit done for "The Kennedy Tapes"
broadcast. But I cannot recall how much time elapses between the time
of the Zapruder fade-out and the place where I pick up the live
footage once again.

I have the raw DVD-R discs from which I extracted the video files for
online use, and if I should get time in the future, I would be happy
to look and see what material I edited out, and how much elapsed time
was edited. But offhand I can't remember. It's been about 5 years
since I created that WFAA series.

==========================================

ONE DAY LATER, DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Correction:

I was incorrect when I said that the edit right after Zapruder's WFAA
interview was wholly my own edit. I have checked my raw DVD source for
that material, and the only thing I edited out at that point was some
of Tracy Rowlett's narration and an intro jingle that was used in 1983
by WFAA for the "Kennedy Tapes" broadcast.

When I wrote my post yesterday on this matter, I had thought there was
some footage missing after Zapruder's interview, but there definitely
isn't, because after the break that was put into the '83 show, it cuts
back to Jay Watson and Abe Zapruder for just a split second before the
cut is made to ABC in New York and Jim Hagerty. So I can tell that the
'83 show picked up the WFAA coverage again without any edits after the
Zapruder interview.

In fact, the split-second of footage which shows Watson and Zapruder
AFTER the edit is even included in my YouTube version (go to 9:47 of
Part 10).

Sorry for my earlier error, and I hope I didn't confuse or mislead
anyone on this matter to any great degree.

==========================================

LEN OSANIC SAID:

The ABC network desk in New York ID's Oswald by (likely) 2:30 CST. It
can be timed because it immediately follows Abraham Zapruder's
appearance on the local affiliate.

==========================================

WILLIAM KELLY SAID:

"Lee H. Oswald" was first named at 3:46pm CST. The timing comes from
the original WFAA and WBAP radio tapes, which means their source was
either a local reporter or UPI.

==========================================

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Bill,

Len is correct (almost) regarding this matter. Because that time of
3:46 CST is positively not accurate (unless the 2:31 PM CST timestamp
for the Zapruder interview as shown in the "Zapruder Film Time Line"
is incorrect).

I just checked my WFAA-TV footage and found that ABC News in New York
is saying the name "Lee Oswald" at approximately 2:40 PM CST (about
three minutes into Part 11 of my WFAA video series). BTW, the ABC
anchorman doesn't say "Lee H. Oswald" at that point in time. He just
says "Lee Oswald", without including the middle initial.

The 2:40 PM timestamp can be obtained by the timing of the Zapruder
interview (as Len Osanic mentioned). And I can only assume that the
"2:31 PM" timing for Zapruder's WFAA interview is referring to when
that interview STARTED, not when it ended. Not that that would be a
huge difference in real time either way, because the whole uncut
interview with Zapruder lasted just a shade less than five minutes.

So if the Zapruder interview began at 2:31 PM CST (as it says on the
Sixth Floor Museum website), it's easy to time other events that occur
just after that interview. There is one minute of additional footage
after the Zapruder interview in Part 10 of my WFAA series. And then
after about three minutes in Part 11, ABC in New York announces that
Lee Oswald had been arrested.

And there are definitely no breaks or edits in my WFAA series after
Zapruder's interview up until the time when Oswald's name is mentioned
over ABC-TV in New York.

Therefore, we have a 2:31 PM starting point, plus five minutes for the
entire Zapruder interview, plus one minute more at the end of Part 10,
plus roughly three more minutes at the start of Part 11....which would
equal Oswald's name first being uttered on ABC-TV at about 2:40 PM CST
(3:40 PM EST).

Bill, I wonder if someone has confused Central time with Eastern time
in that 3:46 PM timestamp you and Gary Mack posted earlier. Because it
was, indeed, very close to 3:46 EASTERN time when we hear ABC say the
name "Oswald" on the air. That would, of course, be a common and
understandable "time zone" error for someone to have made. The same
type of one-hour mistake in time occurred in Wayne Hawks' transcript
for the Perry/Clark Parkland press conference.

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/10/parkland-press-conference-11-22-63.html

But I really can't see where some of the conspiracy theorists can go
with this information concerning the first time Oswald's name was
spoken on live TV on November 22. By 2:40 PM CST, Oswald had been in
custody for about 50 minutes, and he had been inside City Hall for
approximately 40 minutes. So there was certainly ample time there for
a crack reporter or two, who would have undoubtedly been hungry for
information about this guy the cops just brought into the police
station in handcuffs, to dig out the name "Oswald" from somebody at
Dallas City Hall.

And, quite obviously (via the WFAA footage that does exist), that is
exactly what DID happen (even though there was the initial confusion
as to what Oswald's real name was--Oswald or Hidell). Somebody was
able to find out from someone at the Dallas Police Department, prior
to 2:40 PM CST, that the man who had just been arrested in the Texas
Theater was named Lee Oswald. Simple as that.

==========================================

Date: 2/14/2013 1:58:33 P.M. Eastern Standard Time
E-Mail From: Gary Mack
To: David Von Pein

Hi Dave,

The Kennedy Tapes, as broadcast in 1983, has a few segments out of
sequence since the original WFAA tapes were rarely marked with exact
times. John Sparks produced that series and we’ve been friends and,
for awhile at KXAS years later, coworkers since then. Both John and
Tracy Rowlett are still active in local broadcasting.

WFAA donated all its tapes and films to The Sixth Floor Museum in
1998; five years later when we made new digital masters of the
original tapes, I confirmed that the station did not record
continuously that weekend or even the first day.

Finally, The Sixth Floor Museum’s collections include a copy of the
ABC News log of the network’s weekend coverage, and their
documentation showed the very first mention of Oswald by name came at
3:48pm Dallas time. It was preceded at 3:43 by a live WFAA report from
Ed Hogan and followed at 3:54 by an audio report from Bernard Kaplan
in Paris.

Gary Mack

==========================================

Date: 2/14/2013 7:48:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time
E-Mail From: Gary Mack
To: David Von Pein

Some of my previous information was incorrect. From The Sixth Floor
Museum's index of the original WBAP tapes is this description (written
by a former WBAP staffer who digitized them). I have no evidence to
contradict his summary:

16. 2:43 pm WBAP's David Daniel interrupts for word from Dallas Police
of the arrest of "a 24-year-old man, Lee H. Oswald" in connection with
the shooting of Dallas Police Officer J.D. Tippit. He's being
questioned to see if he has any connection with JFK assassination.
"Oswald was pulled screaming and yelling" from the Texas Theater in
the Oak Cliff section of Dallas. After a pistol is taken from him
during a scuffle, he's quoted as saying, "It's all over now."

I must have overlooked an EST reference, for which I apologize.

Gary Mack

==========================================

Date: 2/14/2013 8:24:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time
E-Mail From: David Von Pein
To: Gary Mack

Thanks, Gary. I've been expecting to hear from you on this.

So, via the WBAP log, it appears that my 2:40 PM CST timestamp for the
ABC-TV "Oswald" announcement (which another person, Jeff Carter, also
mentioned in the forum thread) is probably spot-on accurate.

David V.P.

==========================================

Date: 2/14/2013 9:15:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time
E-Mail From: Gary Mack
To: David Von Pein

Must be. But I'm really baffled by some of this. I checked the ABC log
this afternoon and I could swear the log said 4:46 was the time, which
means 3:46 in Dallas. Just before I sent you and Bill [Kelly] the note
tonight I found that NBC gave Oswald's name at 3:23 Dallas time, but
then I found where I sent someone else the WBAP quote months ago. So
if I have the time tomorrow, I'll check the ABC log again. Weird.

Gary

==========================================

Date: 2/14/2013 9:51:28 P.M. Eastern Standard Time
E-Mail From: David Von Pein
To: Gary Mack

But isn't it possible that there was an earlier ABC report mentioning
Oswald at 2:40 PM CST, along with the 3:46 PM CST report you have
mentioned? Maybe somebody merely overlooked the 2:40 report by
mistake.

DVP

==========================================

A LITTLE BIT LATER, DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

After digging into this matter a little further, I have been able to
positively confirm that Lee Oswald's name is first mentioned on the
ABC Television Network (and on WFAA-TV in Dallas) at approximately
2:40 PM Dallas time (Central Standard Time).

The way I was able to confirm it is by comparing the WFAA-TV local
Dallas coverage with the raw feed from the ABC-TV network footage that
I also have in my collection.

They are identical when comparing the timeframe in question, starting
with Abraham Zapruder's WFAA interview and continuing for several
minutes after that interview concludes. And the timing on the ABC
Network raw feed works out to just exactly what I said earlier -- ABC
said the name "Lee Oswald" at just about 2:40 PM CST, which was
precisely four minutes after Jay Watson of WFAA finished his interview
with Abraham Zapruder.

For confirmation of this, see the last few minutes of Part 10 and the
first four minutes of Part 11 in the ABC-TV video series linked below.

As I mentioned earlier, the "2:40 PM CST" timestamp hinges on the
Zapruder interview beginning at the time when the Sixth Floor Museum
chronology says it began--2:31 PM CST. But I think I can pretty much
confirm that timestamp as well, via my two hours of uncut ABC-TV
coverage coming from the raw feed in New York City. The 2:31 PM time
works out perfectly when timestamping things in my 2-hour ABC series
(which is a series that begins at approximately 12:45 PM CST):

http://jfk-assassination-as-it-happened.blogspot.com/2012/03/abc-tv.html

David Von Pein
February 2013

[David Von Pein]

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2013/02/pretend-this-is-oswald-on-hot-seat.html

[Walt]

On Feb 19, 1:38 am, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2013/02/pretend-this-is-oswald-on-ho...

Hey Von Pea Brain.......Your desperation is hangin out a country
mile.....

[David Von Pein]

Why would I be desperate, Walter? I know Oswald was guilty of 2
murders. The evidence (and LHO's own actions) prove him to be guilty
of those crimes. If you've got all the evidence on your side (as LNers
do), there's no need for "desperation".

If there's any "desperation" being exhibited, it's coming from your
computer--not mine. And if either of this newsgroup's two lurkers
requires any proof as to just how "desperate" Walter Cakebread is when
it comes to his anemic efforts to exonerate a murderer, just read this
(again):

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/7d3264251021ff76

[Walt]

Ha,ha,ha,ha,hee,hee,hee.......ROTFLMAO...... The spineless worm who
says he's not Desperate proves that he damned sure is desperate by
posting the above link.

Von Pea Brain knows that Howard Brennab described a man who was not
Lee oswald, and he described a position for that man that was not the
SE corner window, and he described the rifle in the man's hands as a
HUNTING rifle, and NOT a military rifle. Hee,hee,hee.....
Desperation has a hold on ol Davey Von Pea Brain.

[David Von Pein]

Walt is living proof that there's evidently no cure for "JFK
Conspiracy Insanity". Walt has a terminal case, as do many other
Internet CTers.

If I could only invent a cure for it. Any ideas for a cure, Bud?

[Bud]

No, theres no cure. But basically they are harmless idiots engaged
in a stupid hobby that doesn`t amount to anything.

[David Von Pein]

BUD SAID:

>>> "Basically they are harmless idiots engaged in a stupid hobby that doesn`t amount to anything." <<<


DAVID VON PEIN SAYS:

True. And it gives crackpots like Walt and Benji a reason to pretend
that they know way more about this case than the many people who were
part of the TWO official organizations who were assigned to
investigate JFK's death.

It never bothers the conspiracy kooks that we have had TWO entirely
different committees look into the JFK case--with both committees
concluding that OSWALD KILLED KENNEDY. That (double) fact means
absolutety zilch to the CT kooks.

And now we're treated to a nut named DiEugenio, who keeps insisting
that the documents released by the ARRB pretty much put the final nail
in the "LN" coffin. But what I want to know is: What documents are you
talking about, Jimbo? I've never heard him say exactly WHAT documents
he's talking about. Does anybody know? If so, let's hear it.

In the newest edition of his book, "Destiny Betrayed", DiEugenio has
probably talked about specific documents that he thinks prove that a
conspiracy killed Kennedy, but I've never once heard him talk about
any specific documents in his online posts. And I'm certainly not
going to read that book of his. It's undoubtedly a fantasy built on
top of another fantasy (Garrison's). Two fantasies for the price of
one book. What CTer could possibly pass that up?

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/04/dvp-vs-dieugenio-complete-series.html

[Jason Burke]

So you've proved you're delusional Wally. Good for you. You keep
plugging away from Mommy's basement.

[Walt]

Ha,ha,ha,ha,hee,hee,hee...... If we were so "harmless" you wouldn't
be lying and desperately trying to discredit us...Whatta
Dumbass!..... Anybody rollowing these grougs can clearly see the
desperation.

[Walt]

If you can understand what's written, read Howard Brennan's affidavit
that he wrote only an hour or so after he witnessed the shooting. Oh
never mind.... you're not here to learn anything.......

[David Von Pein]

>>> "Anybody rollowing these grougs can clearly see the desperation." <<<

Rollowing these grougs, eh? Time for a new keyboard, Cakeman. The P
key isn't even close to the G key either.

[David Von Pein]

>>> "...read Howard Brennan's affidavit..." <<<

Oh, you mean the one where Brennan specifically says he saw the gunman
in a window at the "east end of the building"? ....

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-jTmnYgFvqzM/Tvw3vTpzhsI/AAAAAAAABuI/QJ__Z34iHho/s1200-h/Howard-Brennan-Affidavit.gif

(Let's watch as the retard named Walter C. once again tries to turn
"EAST END OF THE BUILDING" into the "WEST" end of the building, even
though Brennan never ONCE suggested that a gunman was in any west-end
window.)

[Bud]

On Feb 19, 7:03 pm, Walt <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote:
> On Feb 19, 2:34 pm, Bud <sirsl...@fast.net> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 19, 3:12 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > Walt is living proof that there's evidently no cure for "JFK
> > > Conspiracy Insanity". Walt has a terminal case, as do many other
> > > Internet CTers.
>
> > > If I could only invent a cure for it. Any ideas for a cure, Bud?
>
> >   No, theres no cure. But basically they are harmless idiots engaged
> > in a stupid hobby that doesn`t amount to anything.
>
> Ha,ha,ha,ha,hee,hee,hee......  If we were so "harmless" you wouldn't
> be lying and desperately trying to discredit us...

What changes whether I do or I don`t?

[David Von Pein]

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19977&st=60#entry268944

J. RAYMOND CARROLL SAID:

David...you seem to be dodging my question: How do you know that Lee
had never previously left his money with Marina?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

I'm glad you brought this up, Raymond. Because I was not entirely
correct or clear when I said this in an earlier forum post:

"You [Pat Speer] and Raymond are totally missing the boat
regarding Oswald leaving behind his wedding ring and nearly all his
cash ($170.00) in Irving on November 22. How many times had Lee EVER
done such a thing prior to 11/22? Answer: Never." -- DVP

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19977&st=45#entry268892


What I should have said is this (with the emphasis on the "and" being
the crucial point that I didn't stress previously):

Has there ever been another occasion which had Lee Oswald
leaving behind most of his money AND his wedding ring prior to him
leaving for work?

It's the COMBINATION of "money + wedding ring" that is important, IMO.
Because, Ray, you are correct to point out that Lee could very well
have left money in that wallet at the Paine house on previous
occasions (in addition to November 22).

In fact, the Warren Commission testimony of Marina Oswald actually
verifies that Lee did, in fact, leave money in that wallet on prior
occasions (and Marina also testified that Lee left extra money in a
wallet while they were living in New Orleans as well):


J. LEE RANKIN -- "Did you usually keep a wallet with money in it at
the Paines?"

MARINA OSWALD -- "Yes, in my room at Ruth Paine's there was a black
wallet in a wardrobe. Whenever Lee would come he would put money in
there, but I never counted it."

MR. RANKIN -- "On the evening of November 21st, do you know how much
was in the wallet?"

MRS. OSWALD -- "No. One detail that I remember was that he had asked
me whether I had bought some shoes for myself, and I said no, that I
hadn't had any time. He asked me whether June needed anything and told
me to buy everything that I needed for myself and for June and for the
children. This was rather unusual for him, that he would mention that
first."

MR. RANKIN -- "Did he take the money from the wallet from time to
time?"

MRS. OSWALD -- "No, he generally kept the amount that he needed and
put the rest in the wallet. I know that the money that was found
there, that you think this was not Lee's money. But I know for sure
that this was money that he had earned. He had some money left after
his trip to Mexico. Then we received an unemployment compensation
check for $33. And then Lee paid only $7 or $8 for his room. And I
know how he eats, very little."

--------------------

There is also this from Vince Bugliosi's book:

"Friday morning, before leaving Ruth Paine's house in Irving,
Oswald left behind his wedding ring and $170, believed to be virtually
all of his money, for Marina, demonstrating that he realized he might
never see her again--that is, he might not survive the assassination
he was contemplating. Moreover, as he left Marina that morning, Oswald
told her to use the money to buy..."anything" else that she felt was
necessary for the children. Marina thought this to be strange since
Oswald had always been "most frugal" and hardly allowed her to spend
any money at all." -- Pages 955-956 of "Reclaiming History" by Vincent
T. Bugliosi [sourced from CE1820, at 23 H 479]

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh23/html/WH_Vol23_0256a.htm

--------------------

In summary --

Lee Oswald leaving behind the money and his ring doesn't PROVE he shot
the President, of course. But the TOTALITY of unusual things he did on
November 21 and 22 certainly indicate that Friday, November 22, 1963,
was not just an ordinary regular work day for Lee Harvey Oswald.

E.G.:

1.) Visiting his wife at Ruth Paine's house on a THURSDAY instead of
his normal FRIDAY.

2.) Leaving Marina $170 AND his wedding ring (in tandem) -- which left
only approximately $15.10 in Lee's pockets when he left the Paine
house on November 22 (and, remember, per Buell Wesley Frazier, Lee was
not planning on returning to Irving on Friday night).

3.) Telling Marina to buy "anything" that was needed for the children,
which was highly unusual for the penny-pinching Mr. Oswald, according
to his wife.

4.) Telling Wesley Frazier he was going to Irving to get some curtain
rods at the Paine house, which we know was a lie (based on the
preponderance of evidence and testimony that proves it was a lie).

5.) Taking a large paper package into work with him on Nov. 22.

6.) Taking NO LUNCH to work on Nov. 22, which was very unusual (per
Buell Frazier's testimony).

And when we add in the evidence of Oswald's guilt that was discovered
AFTER the assassination, then what do all of these things suggest--in
combination with one another? Do they suggest the actions of an
innocent patsy? Or do they suggest the actions of a person who had a
one-man plan to murder the President?

Mr. Spence, your witness.