Debating The John F. Kennedy Assassination (Part 19)
David Von Pein
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SUBJECT -- The JFK Assassination: The Ongoing "Lone Assassin vs.
Conspiracy" Debate.
FEATURED TEXT -- Archived JFK Forum Messages From March 2006, July
2006, November 2006, and March 2007.
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CTer (A CONSPIRACY THEORIST) -- Would you mind posting the top 2 or 3
pieces of evidence which support your claim that Oswald acted alone?
DVP (DAVID VON PEIN) -- Okay. I'll give you more than just two or
three in fact.....
1.) Lee Harvey Oswald's very own rifle was the ONLY murder weapon.
Only bullets, fragments, and shells from LHO's very own gun were found
anywhere, proving beyond all REASONABLE doubt that Oswald's gun killed
John F. Kennedy. .....
"Within minutes of the assassination, a 6.5-millimeter Mannlicher-
Carcano rifle -- serial number C dash 2766 -- was found on the sixth
floor of the Book Depository Building. Oswald ordered the rifle under
the name 'A. Hidell' -- we know that.
"We know from the testimony of Monty Lutz, the firearms expert, that
the two large bullet fragments found inside the Presidential limousine
were parts of a bullet fired from Oswald's rifle to the exclusion of
all other weapons.
"We also know from the firearms people that the three expended
cartridge casings found on the floor, right beneath that sixth-floor
window -- undoubtedly the same casings that Mr. Norman heard fall from
above -- were fired in, and ejected from, Oswald's rifle to the
exclusion of all other weapons.
"So we KNOW, not just beyond a reasonable doubt, we know beyond ALL
doubt that Oswald's rifle was the murder weapon....that caused that
terrible, terrible spray of brain matter to the front! The worst sight
that I have ever seen in my entire life!" -- Vincent T. Bugliosi
And a reasonable person/researcher can also see that Oswald's
post-12:30 actions on the day JFK's assassination (11/22/63), coupled
with the Dealey Plaza eyewitnesses who, at the very LEAST, saw an
"Oswald-like" man in the assassin's window during the shooting or just
seconds before the shooting, provide ample indications that it was Lee
Harvey Oswald who was shooting a rifle at the President.
1A.) The plain old logical garden-variety equation of -- THE OWNER OF
THE MURDER WEAPON IS PROBABLY THE PERSON WHO USED IT ON NOVEMBER 22,
1963.
Can ANY conspiracy theorist thoroughly and logically debunk number 1A
above?
2.) No other gunmen were seen anywhere in Dealey Plaza....and (as
mentioned in #1, but it's worth a reprise) -- No non-Oswald weapons or
shells or bullets were found anyplace.
3.) Oswald's crappy getaway plan indicates he was likely a lone
assassin. If he'd had an accomplice, he wouldn't have had to rely on
cabs and busses and his own two feet for his post-shooting locomotion
activities. (The "Patsy" craziness notwithstanding, of course. Because
anyone beyond kindergarten should be able to see the severe
complications and built-in problems with a "MULTI-GUN/ONE-PATSY
PLOT".)
4.) Oswald's actions just PRIOR to the shooting; e.g., taking a
package into the building, his "curtain rods" lie, and his leaving
$170 and his ring behind for his wife Marina. .....
"And it's obvious that Oswald carried that rifle into the building
that day in that large brown paper bag. It couldn't be more obvious.
As far as Mr. Frazier's testimony about Oswald carrying the bag under
his armpit, he conceded he never paid close attention to just how
Oswald was carrying that bag. He didn't have any reason to.
"At this point if we had nothing else....nothing else....how much do
you need?....if we had NOTHING else....this would be enough to prove
Oswald's guilt beyond all REASONABLE doubt. But there's so much more."
-- Vincent T. Bugliosi
5.) Oswald was just the type of oddball/loner to want to try to shoot
the President while secreting himself in a corner of his workplace as
he performs the cowardly act of shooting the U.S. President in the
back. Quintessential Oswald behavior.
And, as Marina Oswald said about her husband, it's not likely he would
"confide in others" on a mission like this important one. He didn't
want to share his great moment with any other "co-plotters". It wasn't
his style.
Yes, I know Oswald denied shooting JFK...and why would he do that if
he was in it for the "glory" of it all? .... The answer to that is
probably a quirk in Oswald's smirk-laden and super-strange nature. He
was playing a "game" with the cops and the FBI, etc.
We KNOW it was at least partly a "game" to Mr. Oswald, as evidenced by
these LHO quotes.....
"Well, you're the cops; YOU figure it out!"
"I'm just a patsy!"
"Policeman been killed?"
"I hear they burn for murder."
"Well, they say it just takes a second to die."
In short, Oswald was a murdering scumbag who simply had a burning
desire to harm people in high places -- Walker, Kennedy, Johnson (or
Nixon), Eisenhower (via a remark made to an acquaintance re. Ike).
Lee Harvey Oswald's premature death at the age of 24 was certainly no
loss to the world, that's for certain.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/3ae26a3befc052b8
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/4dd73f8e676a5db8
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Re. the "Single-Bullet Theory" timeline.....
CTer -- That's the best you can come up with? A grimace on his {John
Connally's} face?
DVP -- There are several more "Connally Was Hit At Z224" pieces of
visual evidence via the Zapruder Film. CTers just refuse to interpret
it correctly. .....
1.) Connally's open mouth at Z225 (his mouth is closed at Z224).
2.) Grimace on face (i.e., look of pain/distress) at Z224-Z225.
3.) Right shoulder driven downward and forward at exactly Z224.
4.) Shoulder "shrug"/"hike" immediately after Z224.
5.) Hat/Right arm movement starting at Z226 (involuntary, after his
right wrist was hit).
6.) Lapel "bulge"/"flip" at exactly Z224.
Conspiracy lovers (and LNer Mark Fuhrman) just wish to ignore all of
the above. Go figure.
http://216.122.129.112/dc/user_files/4594.gif
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/0b30398a449c05b7
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/4c7616a35ac60e22
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Re. the very similar physical descriptions of Lee Oswald provided by
witnesses Marrion Baker and Howard Brennan on 11/22/63.....
CTer -- Baker and Brennan could have gotten the same numbers, from
vastly different vantage points and distances, only with outside help.
DVP -- This is nonsense. You're accusing Howard Brennan or Marrion
Baker (or both) of deliberately falsifying the information that each
gave in his respective sworn 11/22/63 affidavit -- which were
documents that were filled out and signed within a mere hours (maybe
less) after they saw what they saw.
So, do you want the public at large to believe that by the time
Officer Baker went to make out his Nov. 22nd statement (affidavit),
that he was being FORCED by some "outside help" (DPD? FBI? SS? Boy
Scouts Of America? Other Entity?) to make his statement ALIGN almost
perfectly with Howard Brennan's from earlier in the day?
Plus -- Why do you think that Baker even was REQUIRED to put in his
statement the info regarding Oswald's height, weight, and age? It was
a voluntary statement. Baker didn't have to put in ANY of the detailed
stuff about Oswald's appearance or age. But he did
anyway...voluntarily. And those stats almost perfectly matched those
given by Brennan.
Or do CTers have some verifiable proof that Marrion Baker WAS, in
fact, FORCED to place in his affidavit these specific details -- "5-
foot-9; 165 lbs.; approx. 30 years old"?
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/baker_m3.htm
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/brennan1.htm
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CTer -- {Officer Marrion L. Baker} lied a minimum of THREE times.
DVP -- A typical CT-Kook who is jumping the gun....as he turns
probable innocent, non-hinky "mistakes" and/or "clarifications" into
"lies", "conspiracy", and "cover-up".
Per some conspiracists/sensationalists, all witnesses must be perfect
from the get-go and right on through to their deaths. If not, it MUST
mean they are skewing the facts deliberately.
Bunk.
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Re. JFK's upper-back wound.....
CTer -- The reported 45-degree to 60-degree downward angle of entry.
DVP -- Yeah, I always get a huge kick out of that "45-60 degree"
stuff. It makes my pro-SBT job so much easier, because of the idiocy
of any "45 to 60-degree" downward entry into Mr. Kennedy's back.
IOW: Where was the airplane or helicopter that must have been flying
over Dealey Plaza on 11/22/63, with an assassin inside, who then fired
from this lofty perch so he could create that steep of an entry wound?
Such a steep angle of entry is impossible and everybody knows it.
Plus, the 45-60 degree thing was just a wild guess on Dr. James Humes'
part. It wasn't even measured.
In addition, when he was talking to the Warren Commission about the
angle of the back wound, Dr. Humes admitted this -- "Mathematics is
not my forte".
Plus -- What kind of an assassination "plot" features multiple bullets
(neck and back) that only go into JFK a few inches (if that)? It's
patently absurd. These killers would have done just as well to fire
upon the President using water pistols, for all the good these low-
velocity, non-transiting BB shots were doing them.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/bb22792c022c5a2e
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CTer -- Mr. Von Pein is selective in his choice of witnesses to quote.
A typical lone-nutter.
DVP -- Somebody lend me an "LOL" icon. I need one badly here. It's
typical of a RCT (Rabid Conspiracy Theorist) to jump the gun before
looking at the whole picture.
I was merely demonstrating the other (LN) side of some of the
earwitness evidence (i.e., that not nearly all of the witnesses
claimed that the 2nd and 3rd gunshots were "bunched together").
I cited seven examples of three-shot witnesses (including limousine
occupant Nellie Connally) who heard "evenly-spaced" gunshots. I'm
fairly sure I could dig and find a few more that fit into this "Three
Shots All Evenly-Spaced" category if it were necessary.
And those "evenly-spaced" witnesses were NOT all located on just one
side of Dealey Plaza vs. the other side. They ranged from Marrion
Baker (far east side of the Plaza) to Nellie Connally (right in the
center of DP inside the car) to Emmett Hudson (west side).
Care to explain what makes these evenly-spaced witnesses any less
credible than the "shots close together" witnesses?
And I'll also add here that Mr. Hudson did NOT hear even a whisper of
a gunblast coming from DIRECTLY BEHIND HIM (which is where "Badge Man"
and "Hat Man" and other assorted killers were supposedly firing high-
powered weapons, per many CTers).
Very strange, indeed, that Hudson wasn't able to hear a single shot
from the Grassy Knoll, even though he was practically right on top of
the "hidden assassin(s)".
Via Hudson's Warren Commission question-and-answer session:
LIEBELER -- "But you are quite sure in your own mind that the shots
came from the rear of the President's car and above it; is that
correct?"
HUDSON -- "Yes."
LIEBELER -- "Did you have any idea that they might have come from the
Texas School Book Depository Building?"
HUDSON -- "Well, it sounded like it was high, you know, from above and
kind of behind like, in other words, to the left."
LIEBELER -- "And that would have fit in with the Texas School Book
Depository, wouldn't it?"
HUDSON -- "Yes."
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/hudson.htm
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Does any RCTer ever explain this little Hudson oddity? Plus an
explanation for why neither Marilyn Sitzman nor Abe Zapruder claimed
to hear shots coming from where most CTers place a gunman (the Knoll,
just feet from the Zapruder pedestal)?
Neither Sitzman nor Zapruder claimed to hear shots coming from that
"Badge Man" locality either. That's very strange indeed, if there had,
in fact, been one or more assassins located there.
And these are three people (Zapruder, Sitzman, and Hudson) who are THE
CLOSEST PEOPLE to the alleged "Knoll Killer(s)".
Go figure.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/zapruder.htm