Every Single Thing Lee Harvey Oswald Did Following JFK's Assassination Says "I'm Guilty"
David VP
Indicates LHO Was A Lone Assassin On November 22, 1963:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here are some of my miscellaneous thoughts concerning assassin Lee
Harvey Oswald's "Lone Killer" status in association with the murders of
both President John F. Kennedy and Dallas policeman J.D. Tippit in
Dallas, Texas, on the 22nd day of November in the year of 1963.......
Regarding Oswald's quick descent from the 6th Floor to the 2nd Floor of
the Texas School Book Depository Building just after the gunshots were
fired; and Oswald's "breathing" status at 12:32 PM; and the reasons why
two Depository employees didn't bump into or hear LHO on the stairs:
No one was on the stairs at the exact same time as Oswald. Via the
overall weight of the witness testimony given to the Warren Commission
in 1964, it's very probable that the two employees in question
(Victoria Adams and Sandra Styles) didn't even start down the stairs
until a few minutes AFTER the shooting. Those two ladies did not
encounter anyone (or hear anyone) on the stairs, including Marrion
Baker and Roy Truly, who were positively running up those same stairs
within approx. 60 to 70 seconds of the last shot being fired.
Given these facts -- Oswald, Baker, and Truly must certainly have been
on those stairs PRIOR to the time that Adams and Styles descended that
same staircase. But the conspiracy advocates, incorrectly, insist that
Oswald and the two women HAD to be on the stairs at the exact same time
(and such an unsupportable scenario was also re-created by Oliver Stone
in his 1991 motion picture, "JFK"). But that "Everybody's Using The
Stairs At Once" version of the event simply cannot be accurate, and is
not at all necessary to accommodate the available evidence re. this
issue.
As for being out of breath -- Short of being 5-foot-1 and 299 pounds,
I'm guessing that just about anybody could quickly travel down four
flights of stairs and NOT be "out of breath". It must be remembered
that Oswald was going DOWN the stairs, not UP. Gliding down stairs
certainly wouldn't necessarily make somebody winded at all. I've never
felt the need to go on oxygen after going DOWN just a few steps. Plus:
Oswald was NOT physically unfit either (5-foot-9; slender build;
150-160 pounds).
Also: The Warren Commission re-enacted Oswald's trip to the 2nd Floor
-- and it was easily accomplished multiple times in less than 80
seconds (Oswald was seen by policeman Baker approx. 90 seconds after
the shooting). The re-enactments also included taking the time to hide
the rifle in the place where Oswald hid it (near the stairwell).
Officer Marrion L. Baker performed two separate "re-creations" of
Oswald's probable post-shooting movements, taking 78 seconds on his
first try and 74 seconds on the second. A Secret Service agent, John J.
Howlett, performed a similar test and was also able to traverse the
required distance within the time allotted. Neither man was out of
breath upon reaching the second-floor lunch room.
Conspiracists who continue to believe that Oswald's 90-second, 4-flight
trip to the 2nd Floor was a virtual impossibility are simply 100%
wrong. It was easily a doable trek for Oswald, or anybody else with two
legs who wasn't in a wheelchair.
----------------------
Regarding the subject of why Oswald was left "hung out to dry" (via the
less-popular conspiracy-flavored scenario which has Oswald actively
involved in the assassination plot in some fashion, but NOT being set
up as a "Patsy" by a group of unknown conspirators):
In such a case, why in the world would Oswald's other "teammates" who
are "in" on the plan just leave Oswald hanging out to dry after the
shots were fired?
In such a large plot involving Oswald (or in just a smaller two- or
three-man plot), it would seem logical that one of the other plotters
would have provided their co-conspirator (Oswald) with some
transportation away from the murder scene.
But, instead, Oswald is left to hoof it on his own -- then take a city
bus, then a taxi to his roominghouse -- running the risk of being
spotted by other bus passengers (which, in fact, he was; a former
landlady of Oswald's, Mary Bledsoe, incredibly, was on the very same
Marsalis Street bus that Oswald boarded minutes after the
assassination; she later positively identified Oswald as having been on
the bus).
Then Oswald is left completely alone to fend for himself yet again --
travelling on foot from his Beckley Avenue residence to the scene of
the J.D. Tippit killing (and if the Tippit murder isn't an indication
that Oswald was involved in the JFK shooting, then nothing is, IMO).
Then he walks to a movie theater, a perfect place to "lay low" without
running a huge risk of being spotted in the nearly-empty and dark
theater.
ALL of the above signifies one thing for sure --- Oswald had NO
ACCOMPLICES on November 22, 1963. For if he had, all of these walking
and public-transportation methods of locomotion would certainly have
been avoided.
----------------------
But, in a total "Lone Nut" scenario, every single thing Lee H. Oswald
did after the President was shot makes perfect sense. Such as the
following laundry list of things telling us the President's murder was
the act of one lone killer, firing from his 6th-Floor perch:
1.) Lee Oswald couldn't drive (not very well at any rate; he had a few
lessons from Ruth Paine, and was not impressive behind the wheel
according to Mrs. Paine). Therefore, he's left to his own resources
after shooting the President, and forced to rely on other modes of
transportation for his getaway.
2.) Even if he COULD drive, Oswald had no vehicle to take him from
Point A (Dealey Plaza) to Point B (anyplace else) after the shooting.
And in an "LN" scenario, it's highly doubtful that he's going to go up
to Wesley Frazier (who gave him a lift that morning) and ask: "Hey Wes,
can you give me a ride home Friday? I'm gonna plug the Chief Executive
around lunchtime and need a getaway driver. OK with you?"
3.) LHO is not the least bit surprised when having Marrion Baker's gun
pointed at him just minutes after the assassination. Lee is quite calm
and cool. This calm reaction is an odd one if he were completely
innocent of the shooting and had no idea of what just happened out on
Elm Street.
IMO, Lee Oswald wasn't surprised by Baker's confronting him for one
simple reason -- he expected the police to be entering the building
quickly; and he had no reason to say to the officer, "What the heck is
going on here?! Why am I being stopped?!" -- because he KNEW what was
going on, because HE, himself caused it. Any innocent bystander in that
same situation is going to get scared, and at the very least ask
"What's going on? What did I do?"; but not Oswald; he never uttered a
word.
4.) He departs work quickly (within 3 minutes of the shooting), not
caring in the least about all the turmoil and police activity going on
outside the building.
5.) Oswald takes the only transportation available to him, in his
flight from the scene -- a public bus. When the bus gets clogged in
traffic, he changes to a taxi cab (highly unusual for the
penny-pinching Mr. Oswald; in fact, a researcher might be searching
forever if he were to try and verify a single other occasion when Lee
Oswald spent money on a cab ride).
6.) Lee has the taxi driver take him NOT to the front door of 1026 N.
Beckley (his residence) -- but instead to a point three blocks BEYOND
his home. He actually passes his house first in the cab, which, IMO, is
an obvious attempt to see if any cops are waiting for him there yet,
and so that the cab driver (William Whaley) won't know exactly where
his passenger lives.
7.) Oswald then grabs a handgun at his home, puts on a jacket (to
conceal the weapon more easily), and hustles out of the roominghouse,
not saying a word to housekeeper Earlene Roberts (who noted his hurried
behavior).
8.) Upon encountering Officer J.D. Tippit on 10th Street within 15
minutes of leaving his roominghouse, Oswald shoots and kills the
officer almost immediately (after very little conversation), plugging
him one extra time (in the head at point-blank range).
9.) Oswald knows he's got really big troubles now (as if killing JFK
weren't enough already). He knows multiple witnesses saw him kill
Tippit, but he's only got so much ammunition with him (he cannot
eliminate ALL these witnesses). So he'll save his last bullets for when
it really counts -- on more cops. Which is EXACTLY what he attempted to
do once he was cornered in the Texas Theater at approx. 1:50 PM on
11/22.
10.) In the theater, Oswald tries to kill police officer Nick McDonald
with the same gun he used on Tippit a half-hour earlier. But, luckily,
McDonald and other officers are able to wrest the gun away from their
suspect before it can be successfully fired, saving Oswald from yet
another possible murder charge that day.
11.) Oswald's first words when cornered are also indicative of guilt --
"It's all over now!" and/or "This is it!" are the quotes that have been
attributed to LHO within the movie theater.
12.) When questioned by the police, Lee Harvey tells one lie after
another regarding crucial information -- such as lying after being
asked each of the following questions: "Do you own a rifle?", "Who is
A.J. Hidell?", and "Did you bring a package to work this morning?".
If Oswald had really been the "Patsy" (as he shouted out to the press
in the DPD hallways), then WHY didn't he reveal some names for the
police to check out? Don't tell me Oswald was involved in this massive
plan to assassinate the President and yet he had not one shred of an
idea as to what any of his co-conspirators looked like or what any of
their names (even fake names) might have been?!
In a word -- Hogwash!
----------------------
What do all of the above points add up to (in their totality)? -- In a
certain sector of the "It Was A Conspiracy" world, these points
(somehow) add up to a "Patsy" who not only didn't murder the President,
but is also innocent of the even-more-provably-committed-by-Oswald
murder of Officer Tippit.
In that same portion of the "CT" world, the above items also add up to
a man (Oswald) who is apparently totally oblivious to the fact that he
is being "used" by hired, professional assassins, and who hadn't the
slightest idea that he would be used in this manner right up to the
time of the actual shooting itself. Otherwise, Mr. Oswald would never
have even shown up for work at the Depository on Friday morning (if he
had possessed even the slightest notion, that is, of the covert "plot"
that would be implicating HIM, and him alone, after 12:30 PM on
November 22nd, 1963).
And only AFTER the assassination itself does Oswald "get smart"
(evidently) and put the pieces together, and realize he's just been
"used" as the "Patsy" in this thing.
His "Patsy" remark has launched a mile-high pile of additional
conspiracy theories -- and I do think it was smart of Oswald to
announce to the TV cameras "I'm just a patsy!" for the world to hear. A
very smart move indeed. Because it accomplished exactly what he had
probably intended for it to accomplish -- i.e., it diverted some
attention away from Oswald himself.
That ONE single word out of Oswald's mouth ("Patsy!") has sent CTers
scrambling in all directions looking for "connections" to a plot -- any
plot. None of which has been verified to this day to have the slightest
bit of truth in them (among the theories placed on the table to date).
Zero pieces of credible, verifiable, provable information have been
unearthed to date that tie Lee Harvey Oswald to any of the various
proposed conspiracy theories.
The above "points", every single one, IMO, add up to the actions of one
lone killer of President Kennedy and Officer Tippit. A man, on foot,
who tries desperately to flee the scenes of his two crimes and avoid
capture, even attempting to kill yet another person along the way (but
failing in that attempt before being handcuffed).
In a nutshell.........
No conspiracy theorist can possibly deny the fact that each of the
points I've stressed above could certainly (at the very least) be
easily reconciled within an "Oswald Did It And Did It By Himself"
point-of-view.
If conspiracy promoters do choose to deny the fact that Lee Harvey
Oswald's post-12:30 actions on November the 22nd could possibly be
looked upon as the actions of ONE LONE KILLER, then I feel they are not
being honest about what Oswald's actions truly reveal.
----------------------
"While opinion polls can reveal cultural trends, they don't change
facts. In the final analysis, the truth doesn't require anyone's
belief." -- Dale K. Myers
----------------------
"There was no plot, no conspiracy. JFK wasn't murdered by anti-Castro
Cubans, the mob, or rogue CIA agents. There has not been one scintilla
of proof tying the assassination to anyone but Oswald. There have been
theories, but no evidence. Oswald had the motive, the opportunity, and
the skill to kill President Kennedy." -- Vincent T. Bugliosi
David Von Pein
March 2006
lazu...@webtv.net
United States Of Amnesia- stand there several extra seconds in the
window, wipe down the rifle for prints, hide it and go down 4 fights of
stars where witnessess Victoria Adams and Sandra Styles never see you-
go grab a coke,be walking into the lunchroom where a police officer
Marion Baker accosts you within 72-90 seconds, and you don't look
suspicious in the slightest and you are instantly let go?
David VP
pile 'em a mile high within just a single-paragraph post as the
Laz-aroo has done in his/her last post.
Nice going!
tomnln
between "his/hers".
"David VP" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1144550387....@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
lazu...@webtv.net
Von Pein.
David VP
Even though Marrion Baker HIMSELF performed two separate re-creations
of Oswald's probable movements within the TSBD, and was able to easily
perform this supposedly-awesome task of walking down 4 measly flights
of stairs within a 90-second time period.
>From my first post above (again).......
tomnln
Different
accounts of his lunchroom encounter with Oswald.
PROVING that Baker LIED a Minimum of THREE (3) Times. Possibly FOUR (4)
Times.
David & his ILK must rely on Perjurors to claim the Lone Assassin Theory.
"David VP" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1144567668....@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
Ben Holmes
says...
>
>Everything Lee Harvey Oswald Did In The Wake Of JFK's Shooting
>Indicates LHO Was A Lone Assassin On November 22, 1963:
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Here are some of my miscellaneous thoughts concerning assassin Lee
>Harvey Oswald's "Lone Killer" status in association with the murders of
>both President John F. Kennedy and Dallas policeman J.D. Tippit in
>Dallas, Texas, on the 22nd day of November in the year of 1963.......
>
>Regarding Oswald's quick descent from the 6th Floor to the 2nd Floor of
>the Texas School Book Depository Building just after the gunshots were
>fired; and Oswald's "breathing" status at 12:32 PM; and the reasons why
>two Depository employees didn't bump into or hear LHO on the stairs:
>
>No one was on the stairs at the exact same time as Oswald.
Untrue. Truly was almost a flight ahead of Baker.
>Via the
>overall weight of the witness testimony given to the Warren Commission
>in 1964, it's very probable that the two employees in question
>(Victoria Adams and Sandra Styles) didn't even start down the stairs
>until a few minutes AFTER the shooting.
Does this surprise anyone? (This mythical "weight" that the WC assigned?)
>Those two ladies did not
>encounter anyone (or hear anyone) on the stairs, including Marrion
>Baker and Roy Truly, who were positively running up those same stairs
>within approx. 60 to 70 seconds of the last shot being fired.
Considering that the WC tests could only get Oswald in position after 74
seconds, looks like you just proved Oswald innocent.
You have Baker and Truly *there* before Oswald could have been.
Your ignorance of even the WC theory needs to be fixed... or else you'll keep
looking like a fool.
Of course, with the evidence of the Couch film, this timing is actually probably
*accurate* - but no LNT'er who actually knows what the WC asserted would agree
with it. See http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/PG/PGchp8.html for a further
discussion of this issue.
>Given these facts -- Oswald, Baker, and Truly must certainly have been
>on those stairs PRIOR to the time that Adams and Styles descended that
>same staircase. But the conspiracy advocates, incorrectly, insist that
>Oswald and the two women HAD to be on the stairs at the exact same time
>(and such an unsupportable scenario was also re-created by Oliver Stone
>in his 1991 motion picture, "JFK"). But that "Everybody's Using The
>Stairs At Once" version of the event simply cannot be accurate, and is
>not at all necessary to accommodate the available evidence re. this
>issue.
>
>As for being out of breath -- Short of being 5-foot-1 and 299 pounds,
>I'm guessing that just about anybody could quickly travel down four
>flights of stairs and NOT be "out of breath". It must be remembered
>that Oswald was going DOWN the stairs, not UP. Gliding down stairs
>certainly wouldn't necessarily make somebody winded at all. I've never
>felt the need to go on oxygen after going DOWN just a few steps. Plus:
>Oswald was NOT physically unfit either (5-foot-9; slender build;
>150-160 pounds).
Ah... just toss common sense out the window... that's okay... most lurkers
probably can well understand what happened according to the WC.
>Also: The Warren Commission re-enacted Oswald's trip to the 2nd Floor
>-- and it was easily accomplished multiple times in less than 80
>seconds
Yep... they *re-enacted* using every trick at hand to *speed up* the time, just
as they used every trick to *slow down* Baker's arrival. When you have to lie
to support the "truth", you need to rethink what you believe the "truth" is.
>(Oswald was seen by policeman Baker approx. 90 seconds after
>the shooting). The re-enactments also included taking the time to hide
>the rifle in the place where Oswald hid it (near the stairwell).
Not accurately, they didn't.
>Officer Marrion L. Baker performed two separate "re-creations" of
>Oswald's probable post-shooting movements, taking 78 seconds on his
>first try and 74 seconds on the second.
I daresay you can't cite for any such thing. Nor will I hold my breath.
>A Secret Service agent, John J.
>Howlett, performed a similar test and was also able to traverse the
>required distance within the time allotted. Neither man was out of
>breath upon reaching the second-floor lunch room.
Of course not. :)
>Conspiracists who continue to believe that Oswald's 90-second, 4-flight
>trip to the 2nd Floor was a virtual impossibility are simply 100%
>wrong. It was easily a doable trek for Oswald, or anybody else with two
>legs who wasn't in a wheelchair.
And easily 'doable' for anyone willing to sidetrack the facts by a wee bit...
>----------------------
>
>Regarding the subject of why Oswald was left "hung out to dry" (via the
>less-popular conspiracy-flavored scenario which has Oswald actively
>involved in the assassination plot in some fashion, but NOT being set
>up as a "Patsy" by a group of unknown conspirators):
>
>In such a case, why in the world would Oswald's other "teammates" who
>are "in" on the plan just leave Oswald hanging out to dry after the
>shots were fired?
>
>In such a large plot involving Oswald (or in just a smaller two- or
>three-man plot), it would seem logical that one of the other plotters
>would have provided their co-conspirator (Oswald) with some
>transportation away from the murder scene.
>
>But, instead, Oswald is left to hoof it on his own -- then take a city
>bus, then a taxi to his roominghouse -- running the risk of being
>spotted by other bus passengers (which, in fact, he was; a former
>landlady of Oswald's, Mary Bledsoe, incredibly, was on the very same
>Marsalis Street bus that Oswald boarded minutes after the
>assassination; she later positively identified Oswald as having been on
>the bus).
I invite EVERYONE to read her testimony:
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/bledsoe.htm
While just minutes earlier, Oswald was calm and collected according to Baker,
now Bledsoe testifies: "Oswald got on. He looks like a maniac. His sleeve was
out here [indicating]. His shirt was undone."
>Then Oswald is left completely alone to fend for himself yet again --
>travelling on foot from his Beckley Avenue residence to the scene of
>the J.D. Tippit killing (and if the Tippit murder isn't an indication
>that Oswald was involved in the JFK shooting, then nothing is, IMO).
>Then he walks to a movie theater, a perfect place to "lay low" without
>running a huge risk of being spotted in the nearly-empty and dark
>theater.
Also a well-recognized sort of place to meet your controller.
>ALL of the above signifies one thing for sure --- Oswald had NO
>ACCOMPLICES on November 22, 1963. For if he had, all of these walking
>and public-transportation methods of locomotion would certainly have
>been avoided.
Thankyou for your well-organized thoughts. Nothing makes the argument better
than listening to the best speculations that LNT'ers can offer.
>----------------------
>
>But, in a total "Lone Nut" scenario, every single thing Lee H. Oswald
>did after the President was shot makes perfect sense.
And, in the CT'er scenario... likewise.
>Such as the
>following laundry list of things telling us the President's murder was
>the act of one lone killer, firing from his 6th-Floor perch:
>
>1.) Lee Oswald couldn't drive (not very well at any rate; he had a few
>lessons from Ruth Paine, and was not impressive behind the wheel
>according to Mrs. Paine). Therefore, he's left to his own resources
>after shooting the President, and forced to rely on other modes of
>transportation for his getaway.
Yep... if you don't have a drivers license, you're clearly guilty of being an
assassin.
>2.) Even if he COULD drive, Oswald had no vehicle to take him from
>Point A (Dealey Plaza) to Point B (anyplace else) after the shooting.
>And in an "LN" scenario, it's highly doubtful that he's going to go up
>to Wesley Frazier (who gave him a lift that morning) and ask: "Hey Wes,
>can you give me a ride home Friday? I'm gonna plug the Chief Executive
>around lunchtime and need a getaway driver. OK with you?"
Yep... let's ignore the *fact* that Wesley Frazier TESTIFIED that he knew he
would not be giving LHO a ride home Friday afternoon.
>3.) LHO is not the least bit surprised when having Marrion Baker's gun
>pointed at him just minutes after the assassination. Lee is quite calm
>and cool. This calm reaction is an odd one if he were completely
>innocent of the shooting and had no idea of what just happened out on
>Elm Street.
Actually, it's a completely *normal* reaction to someone who doesn't have a
guilty conscience about anything.
>IMO, Lee Oswald wasn't surprised by Baker's confronting him for one
>simple reason -- he expected the police to be entering the building
>quickly; and he had no reason to say to the officer, "What the heck is
>going on here?! Why am I being stopped?!" -- because he KNEW what was
>going on, because HE, himself caused it. Any innocent bystander in that
>same situation is going to get scared, and at the very least ask
>"What's going on? What did I do?"; but not Oswald; he never uttered a
>word.
How silly!
This shows how desperate LNT'ers are to try to show LHO guilty!
>4.) He departs work quickly (within 3 minutes of the shooting), not
>caring in the least about all the turmoil and police activity going on
>outside the building.
Speculation...
>5.) Oswald takes the only transportation available to him, in his
>flight from the scene -- a public bus. When the bus gets clogged in
>traffic, he changes to a taxi cab (highly unusual for the
>penny-pinching Mr. Oswald; in fact, a researcher might be searching
>forever if he were to try and verify a single other occasion when Lee
>Oswald spent money on a cab ride).
A bus was the "only" transportation available to him, so he then switches to one
that -wasn't- available to him?
Great argument...
As for whether or not he had an aversion to taking a taxi, Marina never seemed
to be aware of it. She testified on one occasion "I think he took a taxi...",
and didn't seem to be aware that LHO wouldn't, as you imply.
>6.) Lee has the taxi driver take him NOT to the front door of 1026 N.
>Beckley (his residence) -- but instead to a point three blocks BEYOND
>his home. He actually passes his house first in the cab, which, IMO, is
>an obvious attempt to see if any cops are waiting for him there yet,
>and so that the cab driver (William Whaley) won't know exactly where
>his passenger lives.
This is also a common security procedure for people who own Minox cameras...
>7.) Oswald then grabs a handgun at his home, puts on a jacket (to
>conceal the weapon more easily), and hustles out of the roominghouse,
>not saying a word to housekeeper Earlene Roberts (who noted his hurried
>behavior).
Yep... if you're in a hurry, such as getting to the bus stop before the bus gets
there - you're guilty of assassinating a president.
So slow down...
>8.) Upon encountering Officer J.D. Tippit on 10th Street within 15
>minutes of leaving his roominghouse, Oswald shoots and kills the
>officer almost immediately (after very little conversation), plugging
>him one extra time (in the head at point-blank range).
Of course, the *real* evidence shows that Tippit was killed by an automatic, and
at a time when LHO couldn't have gotten there yet.
>9.) Oswald knows he's got really big troubles now (as if killing JFK
>weren't enough already). He knows multiple witnesses saw him kill
>Tippit, but he's only got so much ammunition with him (he cannot
>eliminate ALL these witnesses). So he'll save his last bullets for when
>it really counts -- on more cops. Which is EXACTLY what he attempted to
>do once he was cornered in the Texas Theater at approx. 1:50 PM on
>11/22.
And yet, at close range, and given the drop on the police, he couldn't manage to
kill a single police officer.
How sad...
>10.) In the theater, Oswald tries to kill police officer Nick McDonald
>with the same gun he used on Tippit a half-hour earlier. But, luckily,
>McDonald and other officers are able to wrest the gun away from their
>suspect before it can be successfully fired, saving Oswald from yet
>another possible murder charge that day.
And yet, at close range, and given the drop on the police, he couldn't manage to
kill a single police officer.
How sad...
>11.) Oswald's first words when cornered are also indicative of guilt --
>"It's all over now!" and/or "This is it!" are the quotes that have been
>attributed to LHO within the movie theater.
Yep... it *was* all over... his value as an intelligence asset was at an end.
>12.) When questioned by the police, Lee Harvey tells one lie after
>another regarding crucial information -- such as lying after being
>asked each of the following questions: "Do you own a rifle?", "Who is
>A.J. Hidell?", and "Did you bring a package to work this morning?".
How silly!
>If Oswald had really been the "Patsy" (as he shouted out to the press
>in the DPD hallways), then WHY didn't he reveal some names for the
>police to check out?
He did.
>Don't tell me Oswald was involved in this massive
>plan to assassinate the President and yet he had not one shred of an
>idea as to what any of his co-conspirators looked like or what any of
>their names (even fake names) might have been?!
>
>In a word -- Hogwash!
Exactly the word I was thinking of...
>----------------------
>
>What do all of the above points add up to (in their totality)? -- In a
>certain sector of the "It Was A Conspiracy" world, these points
>(somehow) add up to a "Patsy" who not only didn't murder the President,
>but is also innocent of the even-more-provably-committed-by-Oswald
>murder of Officer Tippit.
When you leave the evidence out of this rambling monologue, you can come up with
virtually anything you want.
>In that same portion of the "CT" world, the above items also add up to
>a man (Oswald) who is apparently totally oblivious to the fact that he
>is being "used" by hired, professional assassins, and who hadn't the
>slightest idea that he would be used in this manner right up to the
>time of the actual shooting itself. Otherwise, Mr. Oswald would never
>have even shown up for work at the Depository on Friday morning (if he
>had possessed even the slightest notion, that is, of the covert "plot"
>that would be implicating HIM, and him alone, after 12:30 PM on
>November 22nd, 1963).
Yep... shame on him for not being a psychic!!
>And only AFTER the assassination itself does Oswald "get smart"
>(evidently) and put the pieces together, and realize he's just been
>"used" as the "Patsy" in this thing.
Yep... he should have known *BEFORE* the President was killed. How stupid of
him!
>His "Patsy" remark has launched a mile-high pile of additional
>conspiracy theories -- and I do think it was smart of Oswald to
>announce to the TV cameras "I'm just a patsy!" for the world to hear. A
>very smart move indeed. Because it accomplished exactly what he had
>probably intended for it to accomplish -- i.e., it diverted some
>attention away from Oswald himself.
>
>That ONE single word out of Oswald's mouth ("Patsy!") has sent CTers
>scrambling in all directions looking for "connections" to a plot -- any
>plot. None of which has been verified to this day
When you have to lie, you haven't said anything, have you?
>to have the slightest
>bit of truth in them (among the theories placed on the table to date).
>Zero pieces of credible, verifiable, provable information have been
>unearthed to date that tie Lee Harvey Oswald to any of the various
>proposed conspiracy theories.
>
>The above "points", every single one, IMO, add up to the actions of one
>lone killer of President Kennedy and Officer Tippit. A man, on foot,
>who tries desperately to flee the scenes of his two crimes and avoid
>capture, even attempting to kill yet another person along the way (but
>failing in that attempt before being handcuffed).
>
>In a nutshell.........
>
>No conspiracy theorist can possibly deny the fact that each of the
>points I've stressed above could certainly (at the very least) be
>easily reconciled within an "Oswald Did It And Did It By Himself"
>point-of-view.
I do.
>If conspiracy promoters do choose to deny the fact that Lee Harvey
>Oswald's post-12:30 actions on November the 22nd could possibly be
>looked upon as the actions of ONE LONE KILLER, then I feel they are not
>being honest about what Oswald's actions truly reveal.
Says the man who refuses to respond to any refutations of his silly posts...
>----------------------
>
>"While opinion polls can reveal cultural trends, they don't change
>facts. In the final analysis, the truth doesn't require anyone's
>belief." -- Dale K. Myers
>
>----------------------
>
>"There was no plot, no conspiracy. JFK wasn't murdered by anti-Castro
>Cubans, the mob, or rogue CIA agents. There has not been one scintilla
>of proof tying the assassination to anyone but Oswald.
Other than the facts, that is...
>There have been
>theories, but no evidence.
Other than the evidence, that is...
>Oswald had the motive,
Although no-one seems to know what it was...
>the opportunity, and
>the skill to kill President Kennedy." -- Vincent T. Bugliosi
>
>David Von Pein
>March 2006
--
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"Ben Holmes" <bnho...@rain.org> wrote in message
news:e1bog...@drn.newsguy.com...
David VP
Oswald's probable post-shooting movements, taking 78 seconds on his
first try and 74 seconds on the second.
BEN: "I daresay you can't cite for any such thing. Nor will I hold my
breath."
I certainly didn't just make up the "re-creations" from whole cloth. I
will make a correction, however, right here re. WHO did those two
important "re-creations". It was not Baker who re-traced Oswald's
movements...that was SS Agent John Howlett. For that error, I'll eat my
share of crow and apologize to this aggregation.
Marrion Baker DID do a re-creation (two of them in fact), but those
were re-tracing his OWN steps from Elm St. to the 2nd Floor. (Baker,
btw, was able to re-trace his steps in 90 seconds and then in just 75
seconds...both times ample enough to fit the "Oswald Meeting" timeline.
WR; Pg. 152.)
My error re. the PERSON who did the re-constructions stems from Gerald
Posner's error re. this matter on Page 264 of "Case Closed", where he
states it was Baker who did the two re-creations of LHO's movements.
This is incorrect...but, Posner DOES have the times accurate...78
seconds then 74 seconds, respectively. He only has the re-creator's
name incorrect.
But the WC confirms Posner's times in this matter (on Page 152 of the
WR).....Howlett did do "tests", one at a "normal walk", the second at a
"fast walk", resulting in the aforementioned 78-second and 74-second
times.
~~bracing for inevitable Gerald Posner backlash...i.e., "If Poz can't
get his names straight, how the hell can you trust ANYTHING the man's
got to say?!"~~
If CTers take the above Posner-bashing road, so be it. But the TIMES of
the re-creations he got RIGHT...just exactly what's printed in the WR.
Why he mixed up Baker and Howlett, I haven't the foggiest. But the main
point comes across in Posner's book even with the error --- Oswald's
trek to Floor #2 was far from "impossible".
lazu...@webtv.net
David VP
Why on Earth would I "admit" to anything like that.
A.) Re-creations show the trip to the 2nd Floor was easily doable in
less than 80 seconds (and without the person doing the re-creation
needing to go on oxygen after reaching his destination).
Hence....
B.) Lee Oswald (whose legs were not in casts on 11/22/63 last time I
checked on that) could most certainly have traversed the necessary
distance in that same amount of time.
Plus (and I think this is rather important too, but rarely, if ever,
talked about)........
As I mentioned above in an earlier post, the WC did re-creations of
Oswald's probable (alleged) movements AND Officer Baker's known 11/22
movements.
Now...let's put these two "re-created" scenarios together:
1.) SSA Howlett is able to ditch a rifle and then travel the required
distance in an average of 76 seconds over two "run-throughs".
2.) Officer Baker is able to re-trace his steps from Elm St. to the
second floor where he saw Oswald in an average of 82.5 seconds
(covering two runs).
Difference in this "average" = 6.5 seconds. And it's in favor of Oswald
getting to the second-floor lunch room FIRST (which is also
important)...because that's exactly what DID happen for real on
11/22/63.
When put together, those 4 re-creations PERFECTLY match the scenario
which has Oswald on the 6th Floor at 12:30 PM, but in the 2nd-Floor
lunch room by 12:31:30 PM.
In fact, this "combined" bit of re-created piecing together of people's
known and alleged movements further enhances the likelihood that the
WC's version of Oswald's trip to the 2nd Floor is the truth. For, the
Commission didn't just "make up" these re-created times. (Or do CTers
think that THIS part of the WR is full of shit too? IOW -- Did the WC
ever get ANYTHING right, ever?)
The re-creations perfectly "line up" with one another...with Howlett
(Oswald) getting to the lunch room just SECONDS prior to Baker -- just
exactly what would have happened if Oswald had shot Kennedy and then
scurried down those stairs to the lunch room right after performing the
murderous deed.
Now....please tell us all again why Oswald's trip to the 2nd Floor is
"extremely doubtful"?
lazu...@webtv.net
a lick of exercise in his life ok- I don'tsee him as someone who could
move too quickly( in contrast to OJ who his counsel said had arthritic
knees & was literally a cripple,then he was photographed shirtless from
the back and had massive lats & deltoids-playing tennis )- the
adrenaline would be going through the roof after shooting the President
& his whole demeanor would be a dead giveaway to even a Dallas cop. The
fact that he was cool,calm & collected within some 90seconds and
describing co-workers in the lunchroom that he would have otherwise no
way of knowing.
Ben Holmes
says...
>
>DVP: "Officer Marrion L. Baker performed two separate "re-creations" of
>Oswald's probable post-shooting movements, taking 78 seconds on his
>first try and 74 seconds on the second.
>
>BEN: "I daresay you can't cite for any such thing. Nor will I hold my
>breath."
>
>
>I certainly didn't just make up the "re-creations" from whole cloth. I
>will make a correction, however, right here re. WHO did those two
>important "re-creations". It was not Baker who re-traced Oswald's
>movements...that was SS Agent John Howlett. For that error, I'll eat my
>share of crow and apologize to this aggregation.
And I appreciate your honesty. It's rather rare around here.
>Marrion Baker DID do a re-creation (two of them in fact), but those
>were re-tracing his OWN steps from Elm St. to the 2nd Floor. (Baker,
>btw, was able to re-trace his steps in 90 seconds and then in just 75
>seconds...both times ample enough to fit the "Oswald Meeting" timeline.
>WR; Pg. 152.)
>
>My error re. the PERSON who did the re-constructions stems from Gerald
>Posner's error re. this matter on Page 264 of "Case Closed", where he
>states it was Baker who did the two re-creations of LHO's movements.
Merely one of many mistakes and misrepresentations in his book. You'd be wise
to check primary sources if you want to use his book as a reference book.
>This is incorrect...but, Posner DOES have the times accurate...78
>seconds then 74 seconds, respectively. He only has the re-creator's
>name incorrect.
>
>But the WC confirms Posner's times in this matter (on Page 152 of the
>WR).....Howlett did do "tests", one at a "normal walk", the second at a
>"fast walk", resulting in the aforementioned 78-second and 74-second
>times.
>
>~~bracing for inevitable Gerald Posner backlash...i.e., "If Poz can't
>get his names straight, how the hell can you trust ANYTHING the man's
>got to say?!"~~
>
>If CTers take the above Posner-bashing road, so be it. But the TIMES of
>the re-creations he got RIGHT...just exactly what's printed in the WR.
>Why he mixed up Baker and Howlett, I haven't the foggiest. But the main
>point comes across in Posner's book even with the error --- Oswald's
>trek to Floor #2 was far from "impossible".
This is one of the *least* of Posner's errors. He has some whoppers in his
book, and the fact that he felt it necessary to misrepresent the evidence is one
of the surest signs that the LNT'er camp is in dire straits.
You still have a problem, as I recall, for you stated that Baker got there
within 60-70 seconds.
And, although this is quite probably *accurate* and historical, it's *NOT* what
the WC decided had happened.
Ben Holmes
says...
>
>>>"It wasn't impossible, just extremely doubtful. Admit it!"
>
>Why on Earth would I "admit" to anything like that.
>
>A.) Re-creations show the trip to the 2nd Floor was easily doable in
>less than 80 seconds (and without the person doing the re-creation
>needing to go on oxygen after reaching his destination).
>
>Hence....
>
>B.) Lee Oswald (whose legs were not in casts on 11/22/63 last time I
>checked on that) could most certainly have traversed the necessary
>distance in that same amount of time.
>
>Plus (and I think this is rather important too, but rarely, if ever,
>talked about)........
>
>As I mentioned above in an earlier post, the WC did re-creations of
>Oswald's probable (alleged) movements AND Officer Baker's known 11/22
>movements.
They did them in a very dishonest way - in contradiction to the known evidence.
I'm sure you're aware that they sped up LHO's alleged actions, and slowed down
Baker's movements.
They did so *dishonestly*...
>Now...let's put these two "re-created" scenarios together:
>
>1.) SSA Howlett is able to ditch a rifle and then travel the required
>distance in an average of 76 seconds over two "run-throughs".
>
>2.) Officer Baker is able to re-trace his steps from Elm St. to the
>second floor where he saw Oswald in an average of 82.5 seconds
>(covering two runs).
It's good to see that you're getting better than your previous 60-70 second
estimate.
The Couch film proves that Baker had already parked his bike no later that
roughly *10* seconds after the final shot.
>Difference in this "average" = 6.5 seconds. And it's in favor of Oswald
>getting to the second-floor lunch room FIRST (which is also
>important)...because that's exactly what DID happen for real on
>11/22/63.
No, if 6.5 is the figure you want to use, you lose. For Truly was almost an
entire flight of stairs *AHEAD* of Baker.
And the WC had to cover up the fact that LHO had quite clearly just finished
making a purchase from the coke machine - which adds another 10 seconds or so.
>When put together, those 4 re-creations PERFECTLY match the scenario
>which has Oswald on the 6th Floor at 12:30 PM, but in the 2nd-Floor
>lunch room by 12:31:30 PM.
So "perfectly" in fact, that it becomes impossible.
>In fact, this "combined" bit of re-created piecing together of people's
>known and alleged movements further enhances the likelihood that the
>WC's version of Oswald's trip to the 2nd Floor is the truth. For, the
>Commission didn't just "make up" these re-created times.
Of course they did. They cheated to get the times that they got.
>(Or do CTers
>think that THIS part of the WR is full of shit too? IOW -- Did the WC
>ever get ANYTHING right, ever?)
Feel free to *defend* what the WC did.
>The re-creations perfectly "line up" with one another...with Howlett
>(Oswald) getting to the lunch room just SECONDS prior to Baker
Which means, of course, that he must have passed Truly.
> -- just
>exactly what would have happened if Oswald had shot Kennedy and then
>scurried down those stairs to the lunch room right after performing the
>murderous deed.
>
>Now....please tell us all again why Oswald's trip to the 2nd Floor is
>"extremely doubtful"?
It isn't. He went from the 1st floor to the 2nd.