Re: for michael brown / c&c / PJR

[George Dance]

On Thursday, August 14, 2014 5:32:10 PM UTC-4, Peter J Ross wrote:
>
> robin williams
> appeared in many filliams
>
> he was an annoying little twerp
> whose death one has to pretend
> to deplore

<snip more of the same>

>
> but not as if he were
> an unimportant black
> missouri boy
> called michael brown
>

Michael Brown's death was tragic, but at least now we know that it was not in vain: Brown died so that Piggy Ross could give the world a rant about how much he hated Robin Williams.

[Michael Pendragon]

On Thursday, August 14, 2014 5:32:10 PM UTC-4, Peter J Ross wrote:

> _for michael brown_

>
> robin williams
> appeared in many filliams
> he was an annoying little twerp
> whose death one has to pretend

> to deplore as if he were
lauren bacall
> albéric magnard
> her majesty the queen mother
> and god

> but not as if he were
> an unimportant black
> missouri boy
> called michael brown

> whose death's inarticulate failure
> will be fictioned one day no doubt
> by some other grinning clown
> oscared and emmyed and deserving
> to die of depression

> PJR, 2014-08-14

You should stick with light verse. You're actually pretty funny.

Although you may be jumping the gun on turning M. Brown into a martyr. For all you know, he may have been an annoying little twerp as well.

[Will Dockery]

On Thursday, August 14, 2014 5:32:10 PM UTC-4, Peter J Ross wrote:
> _

> robin williams
> appeared in many filliams
>
> he was an annoying little twerp
> whose death one has to pretend
> to deplore

Yet here you wrote:

"For Robin Williams. Although I wasn't a fan, he wasn't a talentless moron, and it's a shame that he's dead..." -Peter J. Ross

Can't you make up your mind or is this another example of your lying hypocrisy?

[Will Dockery]

On Monday, August 18, 2014 1:58:28 PM UTC-4, Peter J Ross wrote:
> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Thu, 14 Aug 2014 19:54:46 -0700 (PDT),
> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>
> "And please don't judge your poems based on what other people say. If
> it speaks to you, it's a successful work. If it speaks to others as
> well, that's just icing on the cake."

So... you agree with michael now?

[Michael Pendragon]

A convert!

[Will Dockery]

> > So... you agree with Michael now?
>
> A convert!

Stockholm Syndrone?

[George Dance]

But ... what if it speaks to you with its mouth jammed like a clogged sewage drain?

~~
"As for the poem, there are parts that are brilliant, particularly the speech that tries to jam my mouth like a clogged sewage drain. "
- "H H" fawning over Piggy's sonnet, "A Dubliner of Cathay"

[Will Dockery]

On Monday, August 18, 2014 10:00:51 PM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
> On Monday, August 18, 2014 2:36:17 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
>> On Monday, August 18, 2014 2:27:48 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > On Monday, August 18, 2014 1:58:28 PM UTC-4, Peter J Ross wrote:
>> > > In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Thu, 14 Aug 2014 19:54:46 -0700 (PDT),
> > > > Michael Pendragon wrote:
>
> > > > "And please don't judge your poems based on what other people say. If
> > > > it speaks to you, it's a successful work. If it speaks to others as
> > > > well, that's just icing on the cake."
>
> > > So... you agree with michael now?
>
> > A convert!
>
> But ... what if it speaks to you with its mouth jammed like a clogged sewage drain?

Reminds me of our dear erstwhile friend Mush-Mouth aka Rob Evans.

> ~~
> "As for the poem, there are parts that are brilliant, particularly the speech that tries to jam my mouth like a clogged sewage drain. "
> - "H H" fawning over Piggy's sonnet, "A Dubliner of Cathay"

Yeah, that's him all right.

[Will Dockery]

Hieronymous707 wrote:
> That says a lot about who you know and talk to.

Mostly music talk down this way, and also Jack's new girl friend Angel had to go to the hospital.

My Uncle Fred, in his late 80s, is also pretty sick.

Little real life things are getting our attention down here.

And, I'm not as into politics as you seem to be.

[gen...@hotmail.com]

On 18-Aug-2014, wrote:

> But ... what if it speaks to you with its mouth jammed like a clogged
> sewage drain?

Why must you always bring up maureen at times like this?

[Will Dockery]

<generic> wrote in message
news:53f35006$0$17128$c3e8da3$dd96...@news.astraweb.com...

> On 18-Aug-2014, wrote:
>
>> But ... what if it speaks to you with its mouth jammed like a clogged
>> sewage drain?
>
> Why must you always bring up

Yeah, whatever did happen to old Mushmouth Evans, anyhow?

[Michael Pendragon]

On Tuesday, August 19, 2014 11:37:43 AM UTC-4, Hieronymous707 wrote:
> Oh, okay. I heard about it on the local news,
> so I don't really consider what's going on in
> the streets of Ferguson to be politics.

It seems to be shaping up that way.

[Michael Pendragon]

On Tuesday, August 19, 2014 12:33:38 PM UTC-4, Hieronymous707 wrote:
> Here's a Tip. All politics is local.

I suppose ... if you consider *national* to be "local."

[Michael Pendragon]

On Tuesday, August 19, 2014 2:33:13 PM UTC-4, Hieronymous707 wrote:
> I'm sorry. I was thinking about how Tip O'Neil used
to say 'All politics is local', and what he meant by it.
>

Yeah, like I said.

IMHO, it's a local issue that's been blown up to national proportions by race-baiting media whores like Al Sharpton.

[Will Dockery]

Last spring we had a local incident, that as far as I know, gained no national attention. I really don't deal much with politics, but I feel that the events that happened here (a man shot in the back by police) were disturbingly similar to the Ferguson events, except almost zero protest.

Check it out, don't just take my word for it.

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/columbus-ga/T19JV5I9FEEMKKDE0

Excessive force? CSU shooting will be judged by precedents on police shootings

Apr 2, 2014 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Ledger-Enquirer.com
ROBIN TRIMARCHI rtrim...@ledger-enquirer.com The Columbus State University Police Department headquarters is located at East Lindsey Drive on main campus.

Columbus Insider: You cannot justify shooting a fleeing person in the back when they had not committed a violent crime and their only crime was being in possession of a firearm in a place they shouldn't have been.

David: CSU police are wrong in this shooting.
You just cannot gun someone down for running away from you, there are rules for using deadly force and fleeing, even with a handgun, is not one of them

Debbie: Saw this on the news here and they said he was shot in the back. Hard to point a gun at a cop when you back is to them.
This persons only crime was being in possession of a gun in a place where he wasn't supposed to be and then was trying to run away, hardly a reason to be shot down in the back.

Columbus Insider: Is the GBI investigating this? I sure hope this doesn't get swept under the rug.
I wonder why the race industry has moved on it yet? Where is Sharpton, Jackson and the rest?

More on this story here:
http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/2014/04/01/3034748/university-identifies-sgt-ben.html

=====================================================================

"...The man a Columbus State University police sergeant fatally shot Sunday afternoon had a loaded pistol as three CSU officers chased and ordered him to stop, the university disclosed Tuesday.

Sgt. Ben Scott, a veteran officer with CSU and the Columbus Police Department, shot and killed Zikarious Jaquan Flint after a student reported seeing someone loading a handgun while sitting in a gazebo near the Courtyard 1 apartments on the main campus, according to the university.

Flint was shot twice -- once in the back and once in the back of the neck -- according to the Muscogee County Coroner. Flint, 20, was not a CSU student..."
================================================

Read more here: http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/2014/04/01/3034748/university-identifies-sgt-ben.html#storylink=cpy

[Will Dockery]

On Tuesday, August 19, 2014 2:57:00 PM UTC-4, Hieronymous707 wrote:
> Tip O'Neil had quite a reputation as a drinker,
> and I don't know what drugs he took, but you're
> absolutely right in that he deserves to be quoted
> correctly. "All politics is local."

Hey!

Did PJR just respond to you!?!

[Will Dockery]

Hieronymous707 wrote:
> Heavens no. Perish the thought.

I can see he's itching to...

[Michael Pendragon]

On Tuesday, August 19, 2014 2:51:41 PM UTC-4, Peter J Ross wrote:

> Racism now! You're certainly ticking most of the AAPC kook boxes.
>

An attack on racism, actually. But feel free to "interpret" it as you like.

> Can cancellable spamming and plagiarism be far away?
>

How's this:

My homeland hath halibut and haddock and lox
My kilt has plaid panties and bright checkered socks
My bagpipes are rusty my beard's full of fleas
But no cooties please

http://pjr.gotdns.org/verse/16-poems

[Will Dockery]

On Tuesday, August 19, 2014 3:08:14 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
>
> How's this:
>
> My homeland hath halibut and haddock and lox
> My kilt has plaid panties and bright checkered socks
> My bagpipes are rusty my beard's full of fleas
> But no cooties please
>
> http://pjr.gotdns.org/verse/16-poems

Darn, that PJR really nails some good poetry sometomes!

[Will Dockery]

On Tuesday, August 19, 2014 3:19:35 PM UTC-4, Peter J Ross wrote:
>
> Dreckster's straightforwardly bigoted generalisations about Hispanic
> and Native American people, but it's still racist.

Of course PJR doesn't post any evidence to go along with this lie.

But since it is a lie, after all, how could he?

[Will Dockery]

Hieronymous707 wrote:
>
> I did meet Reverend Al once
> though. Shook his hand and everything.

Got his autograph?

[Michael Pendragon]

On Tuesday, August 19, 2014 3:19:35 PM UTC-4, Peter J Ross wrote:
> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Tue, 19 Aug 2014 12:08:14 -0700 (PDT),

>
> Michael Pendragon wrote:

> > On Tuesday, August 19, 2014 2:51:41 PM UTC-4, Peter J Ross wrote:
>

> >> Racism now! You're certainly ticking most of the AAPC kook boxes.
>
> > An attack on racism, actually.

> Ah, the theory that black people who object to white people's racism are racists! It's a more sophisticated variety of racism than Dreckster's straightforwardly bigoted generalisations about Hispanic and Native American people, but it's still racist.
>

Wrong theory.

Basically, we've got a known robber resisting arrest who was shot by the officer injured in the struggle.

The issue is one of whether the arresting officer was justified in shooting the perpetrator, or whether he committed manslaughter in the heat of a violent confrontation in which he was injured.

Thus far, there has been no reason to suspect that the shooting was racially motivated.

[Will Dockery]

On Tuesday, August 19, 2014 3:56:45 PM UTC-4, Hieronymous707 wrote:
> He didn't sign my check
> if that's what you mean.

I asked my friend and local Liberal politician Frank Saunders what ever went with the aftermath of the story I posted for you earlier. So far as I can see, it all might have been quietly smoothed over:

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/columbus-ga/T19JV5I9FEEMKKDE0

"What's the story on the guy who was shot in the back here last spring, Frank Saunders? This event barely made a local, and as far as I can tell, zero National attention?"

Matter of fact, you seem kind of quiet on this story yourself, Corey.

[Michael Pendragon]

On Tuesday, August 19, 2014 3:31:38 PM UTC-4, Hieronymous707 wrote:
> An attack is an attack is an attack.
> There's enough of that going on
> already that I don't need to join in
> the fray. I did meet Reverend Al once

> though. Shook his hand and everything.

> I thought that slick motherfucker was
> going to sell me a new car. He's not in
> bad shape either. I'd be careful about
> calling him a race baiter to his face if
> I were you, but that's just me. I'm careful.

I used to work in the same building with him (a small, 3 storey building where our paths would cross nearly every day).

Actually, my employers were renting him the office space.

I never once shook his hand.

[Will Dockery]

On Tuesday, August 19, 2014 4:18:22 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
>
> Basically, we've got a known robber resisting arrest who was shot by the officer injured in the struggle.
>
> The issue is one of whether the arresting officer was justified in shooting the perpetrator, or whether he committed manslaughter in the heat of a violent confrontation in which he was injured.
>
> Thus far, there has been no reason to suspect that the shooting was racially motivated.

Interesting how this incident makes international headlines, while a local incident that happened about two miles from where I type this has gotten almost zero attention, from anyone, it seems.

I'll repeat the basics with link to get your take, Michael, if you have time:

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/columbus-ga/T19JV5I9FEEMKKDE0

What's the story on the guy who was shot in the back here last spring? This event barely made a local, and as far as I can tell, zero National attention?

Excessive force? CSU shooting will be judged by precedents on police shootings

<p>ROBIN TRIMARCHI rtrim...@ledger-enquirer.com The Columbus State University Police Department headquarters is located at East Lindsey Drive on main campus.</p>

[michael...@gmail.com]

Sounds similar.

IMO "Stop or I'll shoot!" usually implies that the bullets will be aimed at the person being addressed.

Apparently a vocal contingent thinks this should mean "Stop or I'll shoot into the air!"

[Will Dockery]

Michael wrote:
>
> IMO "Stop or I'll shoot!" usually implies that the bullets will be aimed at the person being addressed.
>
> Apparently a vocal contingent thinks this should mean "Stop or I'll shoot into the air!"

Good rule of thumb... don't run from the police. Be polite and do what they tell you to do.

Hopefully by always following those two rules a person is less likely to get shot and killed by a cop!

[Will Dockery]

Hieronymous707 wrote:
> I'm not surprised that you didn't shake Reverend Al's hand,

Wow, I'd like to have met Reverend Al. He seems a bit wild sometimes, but I
bet he's friendly off-camera.

The last famous person I met and shook hands with was Al Gore when he
stopped here at the Airport on a whistle stop tour. I shook his hand, and
mostly listened as he and Kathy chit-chatted about our kids and his kids.
They both smiled about the fact that he and we both have daughters named
Sarah.

Gore seems like a genuinely nice guy.

[Will Dockery]

Hieronymous707 wrote:
> Imagine if I was the last famous person you met
> and shook hands with. Wouldn't that be funny?

Are you famous yet?

I've been trying to help get you that way.

[Michael Pendragon]

On Tuesday, August 19, 2014 5:37:06 PM UTC-4, Hieronymous707 wrote:
> I'm not surprised that you didn't shake his hand,
> but I'm truly amazed that in all that time, seeing
> him every day, you apparently never had the
> balls to call him a race baiter to his face even
> once. Man, that's what I call mad respect!

My employers were backing his campaign, renting him the office space (probably for peanuts), and bending over backwards to kiss his fat @$$. Calling him out would've cost me my job.

[Will Dockery]

Peter J Ross wrote:
>
> Do you also think that there's no reason to suspect that slavery in
> the Confederate states was racially motivated?

The studies show that there was also a big "rich and poor" factor at work in slavery, and even the racism that was developed by the slave owners.

An aspect of the Civil War routinely ignored, mostly.

=============[Begin_Quoted_Text]=============================

Rich Man's War:
Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the Lower
Chattahoochee Valley
By David Williams
Athens, GA: University of Georgia Press, 1998. $34.95

Reviewed by Thandeka

The importance of David Williams's new book, Rich
Man's War: Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the
Lower Chattahoochee Valley, cannot be overestimated.

[...]

Williams accomplishes this stunning feat by studying
the socioeconomic factors in the South that led first
to the Civil War and then to the defeat of the
Confederacy, focusing primarily on the thriving
industrial center of Columbus, Georgia, and its
surrounding area, which by 1860 was producing almost a
quarter million cotton bales annually. During the
war, this area became a center for war-related
industries because it was deep in the southern
heartland, far from major theaters of combat; had rail
connections to every major city in the South; and was
at the head of navigation on the Chattahoochee River.
Williams, who grew up in the area, uses photographs
and family history in the book, as well as archival
material. The result is a vivid depiction of the life
and times of a people who called the Civil War "a rich
man's war and a poor man's fight."

Williams begins by retelling how the southern planter
class created the white race for purposes of class
exploitation. Until then in Colonial America,
people's race was defined by their class, and there
was no distinction in law or custom between European
and African servants, all of whom were known as
"slaves." Not surprisingly, these bondservants lived,
loved, worked, and rebelled against their upper-class
oppressors together.

[...]

But under the planters' new race laws, race was
defined by genealogy. Masters and servants who could
claim that all their ancestors came from Europe became
members of the white race. In truth, of course, the
"poor whites" continued to be viewed as an alien race
by the elite. As one Georgia planter wrote a friend,
"Not one in ten [poor whites] is. . . . a whit
superior to a negro." Privately called "white trash"
by the elite, the poor whites were publicly embraced
as racial kin by the planters, 3.7 percent of the
population who owned 58 percent of the region's slaves
and were dead set on keeping their exploited workers
divided by racial contempt. Because the antebellum
South's pervasive class exploitation depended on
fabricated white racial pride, any challenge to racial
solidarity among whites threatened to reveal the
hidden class system. Here lay the path to revolution.


Thus it's not surprising that writer Hinton Rowan
Helper's 1857 book The Impending Crisis of the South,
which exposed the race-class link, was publicly
burned; a Methodist minister spent a year in jail for
simply owning it; and three Southerners were hanged
for reading it. Here is some of what Helper said:
"The lords of the lash are not only absolute masters
of the blacks. . . . but they are also the oracles and
arbiters of all nonslaveholding whites, whose freedom
is merely nominal, and whose unparalleled illiteracy
and degradation is purposely and fiendishly
perpetuated." According to Williams, this work sold
more copies than any other nonfiction book of the era
and was called by one historian "the most important
single book, in terms of its political impact, that
has ever been published in the United States."

[...]

Having set the scene, Williams gives his account of
how most poorer southern whites dealt with the "rich
man's war." He begins this section of the book by
reminding us that Georgia's very decision to secede
from the Union was never put to a popular vote.
Rather, it was made by secession delegates, 87 percent
of them slaveholders in a state where only 37 percent
of the electorate owned slaves. These delegates knew
better than to heed antisecessionist delegates' plea
to submit the decision to the electorate for final
determination. After all, more than half the South's
white population, three-quarters of whom owned no
slaves, opposed secession.

Next Williams details the Confed-eracy's corrupt
impressment system. Georgia was one of the first
Confederate states to legislate the right to
confiscate, or impress, private property for the war.
Not surprisingly, corruption ran rampant among
impressment officers, of whom one Georgian said, "They
devastate the country as much as the enemy." Another
Georgian predicted that the widespread corruption
would "ultimately alienate the affections of the
people from the government." It did.

[...]

To add insult to injury, planters continued growing
cotton (rather than food) and traded with the North as
poorer whites and the army faced starvation. Williams
also tells us that all too often, funds that should
have been distributed to indigent families wound up in
the pockets of corrupt officials. Not surprisingly,
by 1863, food riots were breaking out all over the
South, led by the starving wives left behind as their
starving husbands, sons, and fathers died for the rich
men and their slaves.

And always, the racial degradation of the poor white
continued. As Williams reminds us, most of the South's
higher-ranking officers came from the slaveholding
class and treated those under their command like
slaves. One soldier thus complained in a letter home,
"A soldier is worse than any negro on [the]
Chattahoochee river. He has no privileges whatever.
He is under worse task-masters than any negro."
Soldiers were also punished like slaves, says
Williams: "whipped, tied up by the thumbs, bucked and
gagged, branded, or even shot."

[...]

Thus did the desertions begin. By September 1864, two
thirds of Confederate soldiers were absent without
leave. One hundred thousand went over to serve in the
Union armies. Thousands more formed anti-Confederate
guerrilla bands, of which one historian wrote that
they were "no longer committed to the Confederacy, not
quite committed to the Union that supplied them arms
and supplies, but fully committed to survival." These
bands, Williams tells us, "raided plantations,
attacked army supply depots, and drove off impressment
and conscription officers. . . . One Confederate
loyalist, a veteran of the Virginia campaigns, said he
felt more uneasy at home than he ever did when he
followed Stonewall Jackson against the Yankees."

Meanwhile, Williams writes, "One prominent antiwar
resident of Barbour County held a dinner honoring
fifty-seven local deserters. Though a subpoena was
issued against the host, the sheriff refused to
deliver it." The draft was by now difficult to
enforce, nor did disgrace attach to either desertion
or evasion. Indeed, Williams concludes that the
Confederacy would have collapsed from within if there
hadn't been a Union victory.

[...]

...the bands of poorer Southern whites who organized
against the Confederacy and who indeed were abused and
exploited by their overlords, first as wage-slaves and
then as canon fodder. Sadly, these Confederate
deserters never understood that not even the one thing
they held onto as their own—their self-image as
whites—actually belonged to them. Rather it was one
among many means used by rich men to exploit them.

The Rev. Thandeka is associate professor of theology
and culture at Meadville/Lombard Theological School.

==============[End_Quoted_Text]=============================

And that's the name of that tune.

[Michael Pendragon]

On Tuesday, August 19, 2014 11:47:30 PM UTC-4, Peter J Ross wrote:
> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Tue, 19 Aug 2014 13:18:22 -0700 (PDT),

>
> Michael Pendragon wrote:

> > On Tuesday, August 19, 2014 3:19:35 PM UTC-4, Peter J Ross wrote:
> >> In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Tue, 19 Aug 2014 12:08:14 -0700
> >> (PDT),

> >> Michael Pendragon wrote:

> >> > On Tuesday, August 19, 2014 2:51:41 PM UTC-4, Peter J Ross wrote:
>
> >> >> Racism now! You're certainly ticking most of the AAPC kook
> >> >> boxes.

> >> > An attack on racism, actually.

> >> Ah, the theory that black people who object to white people's
> >> racism are racists! It's a more sophisticated variety of racism
> >> than Dreckster's straightforwardly bigoted generalisations about
> >> Hispanic and Native American people, but it's still racist.

> Thank you for quoting properly for once.

> > Wrong theory.

> > Basically, we've got a known robber

> Translation: a suspected shoplifter

He was caught on the surveillance camera shoving the store clerk around.

> > resisting arrest

> Translation: jaywalking

Bullshit. He was recognized by the officer, who attempted to arrested him for robbery.

> > who was shot by
> > the officer injured in the struggle.

> Translation: shot six times by an unprovoked murderer

Having an arm or leg slammed in a car door is certainly a provocation. It just doesn't justify manslaughter.

> > The issue is one of whether the arresting officer was justified in
> > shooting the perpetrator, or whether he committed manslaughter in
> > the heat of a violent confrontation in which he was injured.

> The issue is one of whether you're mildly racist or very racist.

100% color blind.

> > Thus far, there has been no reason to suspect that the shooting was
> > racially motivated.

> Do you also think that there's no reason to suspect that slavery in
> the Confederate states was racially motivated?

It was motivated by economic expediency.

Do you really think the Southern plantation owners said, "Hey, I really dislike those colored folk next door. What say we make them into slaves?"

Of course it would have been preferable to have ended it when we declared our Independence, but they didn't have our hindsight, and we cannot know what repercussions the wholesale dismantlement of a slave-based economy would have entailed.

[Will Dockery]

Michael Pendragon wrote:
> Peter J Ross wrote:

<snip for focus>

> > Do you also think that there's no reason to suspect that slavery in
> > the Confederate states was racially motivated?
>
> It was motivated by economic expediency.
>
> Do you really think the Southern plantation owners said, "Hey, I really dislike those colored folk next door. What say we make them into slaves?"

No, and in fact poor whites were originally enslaved alongside the blacks, as I quoted earlier:

==============[Begin_Quoted_Text]===============================

http://rec.music.dylan.narkive.com/hjUGnNnJ/gods-generals-rich-man-s-war

"...the southern planter class created the white race for purposes of class

==========[End_Quoted_Text]=================================

> Of course it would have been preferable to have ended it when we declared our Independence, but they didn't have our hindsight, and we cannot know what repercussions the wholesale dismantlement of a slave-based economy would have entailed.

There was opposition, really it was the rich plantation owners who wanted a war to keep their slavery:

==============[Begin_Quoted_Text]====================================

http://rec.music.dylan.narkive.com/hjUGnNnJ/gods-generals-rich-man-s-war

"...Georgia's very decision to secede from the Union was never put to a popular vote. Rather, it was made by secession delegates, 87 percent

of them slaveholders in a state where only 37 percent
of the electorate owned slaves. These delegates knew

better than to heed anti-secessionist delegates' plea

to submit the decision to the electorate for final
determination. After all, more than half the South's
white population, three-quarters of whom owned no
slaves, opposed secession."

[...]

To add insult to injury, planters continued growing
cotton (rather than food) and traded with the North as
poorer whites and the army faced starvation. Williams
also tells us that all too often, funds that should
have been distributed to indigent families wound up in
the pockets of corrupt officials. Not surprisingly,
by 1863, food riots were breaking out all over the
South, led by the starving wives left behind as their
starving husbands, sons, and fathers died for the rich

men and their slaves..."

"Georgia was one of the first
Confederate states to legislate the right to
confiscate, or impress, private property for the war.
Not surprisingly, corruption ran rampant among
impressment officers, of whom one Georgian said, 'They
devastate the country as much as the enemy.' Another
Georgian predicted that the widespread corruption
would 'ultimately alienate the affections of the

people from the government.'..."

==========[End_Quoted_Text]=========================

It goes on and on, but I'm sure the point is clearly made.

[Michael Pendragon]

On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 1:35:32 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>
> > Peter J Ross wrote:

> <snip for focus>

> > > Do you also think that there's no reason to suspect that slavery in
> > > the Confederate states was racially motivated?

> > It was motivated by economic expediency.

> > Do you really think the Southern plantation owners said, "Hey, I really dislike those colored folk next door. What say we make them into slaves?"

> No, and in fact poor whites were originally enslaved alongside the blacks, as I quoted earlier:
>

And there were also, originally, black slave owners with black slaves.

> It goes on and on, but I'm sure the point is clearly made.

Well, you and I get it, but I doubt Peter will be able to follow.

[Will Dockery]

Yeah, as Corey likes to repeat so often, he sees what he wants to see.

[George Dance]

IOW, you maintained what Corey calls a 'professional attitude'.

[Will Dockery]

And if that means dressing in drag with an audience of naked lesbians, well so be it.

The show must go on.

[Will Dockery]

On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 5:41:59 AM UTC-4, Hieronymous707 wrote:
> Not in those, or any other words, have I ever called that type of attitude professional, George.

How can you be sure since you delete so much of what you write here, and change your mind so often on top of that?

Just sayin'.

[Will Dockery]

On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 5:50:46 AM UTC-4, Hieronymous707 wrote:
> I'm sure. Trust me.

It isn't worth arguing over and besides, I have no idea.

[Will Dockery]

"Hieronymous707" <hierony...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:acbea841-38eb-419e...@googlegroups.com...
>
> I'm not arguing. George brought it up, not me.

That's true, and we all see what we want to see.

[Will Dockery]

Hieronymous707 wrote:
> I'm glad my commentary resonates with you.

It does, quite often.

[Will Dockery]

Hieronymous707 wrote:
> Unfortunately, my being famous is neither contingent nor dependent on you.
> Would that it were. You'd make my life so much easier! You apparently don't
> have the wherewithal or requisite skill set. I do thank you for trying though.

Yeah, it was a joke... after all, is the world really looking for a new Richard Simmons or Max Klinger? Well, maybe the Klinger bit... see below.

A "new" Shel Silverstein or Theodor Geisel, but that's where /you/ lack the "wherewithal or requisite skill set".

Your drag queen act for naked lesbians seems to be your best shot at fame so far. Get plenty of photos.

--
We're Number 2 on the ReverbNation Rock charts for Columbus, GA. Thanks for listening, my friends!
http://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery

[Will Dockery]

Hieronymous707 wrote:
>
> You did what you could.

No I didn't... that was the whole point.

[Will Dockery]

Hieronymous707 wrote:
> I know. You never do. That's the joke.

Writes the joke who deletes his messages before anyone can even read them.

Still never understood why you find that silly idea so amusing.

[Will Dockery]

Hieronymous707 wrote:
> "Still never understood"

>
> I know. You never do. That's the joke.

A little tip about jokes, they kind of need to be funny.

But you're more the visual, Milton Berle kind of comedian, I gather.

[Will Dockery]

Hieronymous707 wrote:
> Thanks for the tip, Will.
>
> Much appreciated. LOL.

At least someone is laughing... heh.

[Will Dockery]

Hieronymous707 wrote:
> Exactly. I laugh a lot. I don't do heh. Heh isn't
> a righteous laugh.

I'm not sure what you mean by "righteous laugh"... can you explain?

[Will Dockery]

Hieronymous707 wrote:
> Yes. Listen carefully.
>
> http://youtu.be/dV2BfjkP6fU

Okay... have you listened to my new one yet?

"Ghost man... wipe the dust from your eyes. Ghost man, shake it loose and survive. Boolah Boolah, Boolah, Boolah-Boolah."

http://youtu.be/DR7KYiT6KDc

[Will Dockery]

On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 2:21:01 PM UTC-4, Hieronymous707 wrote:
> It's a laugh.

Thanks... no, really!

[Will Dockery]

Hieronymous707 wrote:
> No, I meant the video I posted was of a righteous laugh. I watched your
> video. It was okay too.

Thanks again, for listening and commenting!

[Will Dockery]

Update on the local (Columbus Georgia) news of the man shot in the back of
CSU police:

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/columbus-ga/T19JV5I9FEEMKKDE0

Columbus Insider wrote:

Will Dockery wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, interesting the (to me) much worse local event has apparently been
swept under the rug.
Good rule of thumb... don't run from the police. Be polite and do what
they tell you to do.
Hopefully by always following those two rules a person is less likely to
get shot and killed by a cop!
I find it odd that the local shooting didn't get any national hype or
hysteria either, not a mention and the kid was clearly shot in the back.

Another rule of thumb, don't charge toward a police officer especially when
you are 300 pounds.

Will Dockery wrote:

I just got blasted and flamed on another Forum where I was informed the GBI
investigated the shooting, found the officer was "okay" and he's back on
duty, case closed and over with.

And so it goes.

[Will Dockery]

More news on the Michael Brown story...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.music.dylan/BrwBZP01qog/RtzwWTUYFUYJ

"marcus" wrote in message
news:290f6268-22eb-4e24...@googlegroups.com...
> On Thursday, October 23, 2014 10:50:30 AM UTC-4, luisb wrote:
>> On Thursday, October 23, 2014 10:23:49 AM UTC-4, Just Walkin' wrote:
>
> > > But, as usual, they wasted all their time on the wrong man with
> > > Brother Dave while the real crimes just keep on rolling along.
>> >
>> > Auburn, eh?
>> >
>> > Lucky for you that your skin color permitted you to get out with your
>> > lives. Plenty of bullets fly for some folks even before they smell the
>> > coffee.
>>
>> Like in Ferguson, which you righteously invoked elsewhere? Or: How to Set
>> Back a Cause Decades Via the Giant Lie. Somebody should make a movie
>> about this.
>>
>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/new-evidence-supports-officers-account-of-shooting-in-ferguson/2014/10/22/cf38c7b4-5964-11e4-bd61-346aee66ba29_story.html?tid=pm_pop
>
> The DA there circumvented prosecuting a real trial by giving it to a Grand
> Jury, thus setting the stage for the vindication of a cop. Now, there are
> leaks coming out of the cop's testimony that counter 6-8 eye witnesses of
> what happened to Michael Brown
>
> Even if there was a "scuffle" at the police car. We're talking about a
> cop with a gun firing a shot at an unarmed man from his car The unarmed
> man goes away from the car, puts his hands in the air to surrender and the
> cop continues to shoot him.
>
> I think it's called murder.

I may have posted this here before, but either way it relates to not only
this but the current discussion of cop violence in general here tonight...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.arts.poetry.comments/-r5zxfKFOj4/bAGmGXO297YJ

Last spring we had a local incident, that as far as I know, gained no
national attention. I really don't deal much with politics, but I feel that
the events that happened here (a man shot in the back by police) were
disturbingly similar to the Ferguson events, except almost zero protest.

Check it out, don't just take my word for it.

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/columbus-ga/T19JV5I9FEEMKKDE0

Excessive force? CSU shooting will be judged by precedents on police
shootings

Apr 2, 2014 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Ledger-Enquirer.com
ROBIN TRIMARCHI rtrim...@ledger-enquirer.com The Columbus State University
Police Department headquarters is located at East Lindsey Drive on main
campus.

Columbus Insider: You cannot justify shooting a fleeing person in the back
when they had not committed a violent crime and their only crime was being
in possession of a firearm in a place they shouldn't have been.

David: CSU police are wrong in this shooting.
You just cannot gun someone down for running away from you, there are rules
for using deadly force and fleeing, even with a handgun, is not one of them

Debbie: Saw this on the news here and they said he was shot in the back.
Hard to point a gun at a cop when you back is to them.
This persons only crime was being in possession of a gun in a place where he
wasn't supposed to be and then was trying to run away, hardly a reason to be
shot down in the back.

Columbus Insider: Is the GBI investigating this? I sure hope this doesn't
get swept under the rug.
I wonder why the race industry has moved on it yet? Where is Sharpton,
Jackson and the rest?

More on this story here:
http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/2014/04/01/3034748/university-identifies-sgt-ben.html

=====================================================================

"...The man a Columbus State University police sergeant fatally shot Sunday
afternoon had a loaded pistol as three CSU officers chased and ordered him
to stop, the university disclosed Tuesday.

Sgt. Ben Scott, a veteran officer with CSU and the Columbus Police
Department, shot and killed Zikarious Jaquan Flint after a student reported
seeing someone loading a handgun while sitting in a gazebo near the
Courtyard 1 apartments on the main campus, according to the university.

Flint was shot twice -- once in the back and once in the back of the neck --
according to the Muscogee County Coroner. Flint, 20, was not a CSU
student..."
================================================

Read more here:
http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/2014/04/01/3034748/university-identifies-sgt-ben.html#storylink=cpy

[General Zod]

On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 at 1:06:45 AM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> Peter J Ross wrote:
> >
> > Do you also think that there's no reason to suspect that slavery in
> > the Confederate states was racially motivated?
>
> The studies show that there was also a big "rich and poor" factor at work in slavery, and even the racism that was developed by the slave owners.
>
> An aspect of the Civil War routinely ignored, mostly.
>
> =============[Begin_Quoted_Text]=============================
>
> Rich Man's War:
> Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the Lower
> Chattahoochee Valley
> By David Williams
> Athens, GA: University of Georgia Press, 1998. $34.95
>
> Reviewed by Thandeka
>
> The importance of David Williams's new book, Rich
> Man's War: Class, Caste, and Confederate Defeat in the
> Lower Chattahoochee Valley, cannot be overestimated.
>
> [...]
>
> Williams accomplishes this stunning feat by studying
> the socioeconomic factors in the South that led first
> to the Civil War and then to the defeat of the
> Confederacy, focusing primarily on the thriving
> industrial center of Columbus, Georgia, and its
> surrounding area, which by 1860 was producing almost a
> quarter million cotton bales annually. During the
> war, this area became a center for war-related
> industries because it was deep in the southern
> heartland, far from major theaters of combat; had rail
> connections to every major city in the South; and was
> at the head of navigation on the Chattahoochee River.
> Williams, who grew up in the area, uses photographs
> and family history in the book, as well as archival
> material. The result is a vivid depiction of the life
> and times of a people who called the Civil War "a rich
> man's war and a poor man's fight."
>
> Williams begins by retelling how the southern planter
> class created the white race for purposes of class
> exploitation. Until then in Colonial America,
> people's race was defined by their class, and there
> was no distinction in law or custom between European
> and African servants, all of whom were known as
> "slaves." Not surprisingly, these bondservants lived,
> loved, worked, and rebelled against their upper-class
> oppressors together.
>
> [...]
>
> But under the planters' new race laws, race was
> defined by genealogy. Masters and servants who could
> claim that all their ancestors came from Europe became
> members of the white race. In truth, of course, the
> "poor whites" continued to be viewed as an alien race
> by the elite. As one Georgia planter wrote a friend,
> "Not one in ten [poor whites] is. . . . a whit
> superior to a negro." Privately called "white trash"
> by the elite, the poor whites were publicly embraced
> as racial kin by the planters, 3.7 percent of the
> population who owned 58 percent of the region's slaves
> and were dead set on keeping their exploited workers
> divided by racial contempt. Because the antebellum
> South's pervasive class exploitation depended on
> fabricated white racial pride, any challenge to racial
> solidarity among whites threatened to reveal the
> hidden class system. Here lay the path to revolution.
>
>
> Thus it's not surprising that writer Hinton Rowan
> Helper's 1857 book The Impending Crisis of the South,
> which exposed the race-class link, was publicly
> burned; a Methodist minister spent a year in jail for
> simply owning it; and three Southerners were hanged
> for reading it. Here is some of what Helper said:
> "The lords of the lash are not only absolute masters
> of the blacks. . . . but they are also the oracles and
> arbiters of all nonslaveholding whites, whose freedom
> is merely nominal, and whose unparalleled illiteracy
> and degradation is purposely and fiendishly
> perpetuated." According to Williams, this work sold
> more copies than any other nonfiction book of the era
> and was called by one historian "the most important
> single book, in terms of its political impact, that
> has ever been published in the United States."
>
> [...]
>
> Having set the scene, Williams gives his account of
> how most poorer southern whites dealt with the "rich
> man's war." He begins this section of the book by
> reminding us that Georgia's very decision to secede
> from the Union was never put to a popular vote.
> Rather, it was made by secession delegates, 87 percent
> of them slaveholders in a state where only 37 percent
> of the electorate owned slaves. These delegates knew
> better than to heed antisecessionist delegates' plea
> to submit the decision to the electorate for final
> determination. After all, more than half the South's
> white population, three-quarters of whom owned no
> slaves, opposed secession.
>
> Next Williams details the Confed-eracy's corrupt
> impressment system. Georgia was one of the first
> Confederate states to legislate the right to
> confiscate, or impress, private property for the war.
> Not surprisingly, corruption ran rampant among
> impressment officers, of whom one Georgian said, "They
> devastate the country as much as the enemy." Another
> Georgian predicted that the widespread corruption
> would "ultimately alienate the affections of the
> people from the government." It did.
>
> [...]
>
> To add insult to injury, planters continued growing
> cotton (rather than food) and traded with the North as
> poorer whites and the army faced starvation. Williams
> also tells us that all too often, funds that should
> have been distributed to indigent families wound up in
> the pockets of corrupt officials. Not surprisingly,
> by 1863, food riots were breaking out all over the
> South, led by the starving wives left behind as their
> starving husbands, sons, and fathers died for the rich
> men and their slaves.
>
> And always, the racial degradation of the poor white
> continued. As Williams reminds us, most of the South's
> higher-ranking officers came from the slaveholding
> class and treated those under their command like
> slaves. One soldier thus complained in a letter home,
> "A soldier is worse than any negro on [the]
> Chattahoochee river. He has no privileges whatever.
> He is under worse task-masters than any negro."
> Soldiers were also punished like slaves, says
> Williams: "whipped, tied up by the thumbs, bucked and
> gagged, branded, or even shot."
>
> [...]
>
> Thus did the desertions begin. By September 1864, two
> thirds of Confederate soldiers were absent without
> leave. One hundred thousand went over to serve in the
> Union armies. Thousands more formed anti-Confederate
> guerrilla bands, of which one historian wrote that
> they were "no longer committed to the Confederacy, not
> quite committed to the Union that supplied them arms
> and supplies, but fully committed to survival." These
> bands, Williams tells us, "raided plantations,
> attacked army supply depots, and drove off impressment
> and conscription officers. . . . One Confederate
> loyalist, a veteran of the Virginia campaigns, said he
> felt more uneasy at home than he ever did when he
> followed Stonewall Jackson against the Yankees."
>
> Meanwhile, Williams writes, "One prominent antiwar
> resident of Barbour County held a dinner honoring
> fifty-seven local deserters. Though a subpoena was
> issued against the host, the sheriff refused to
> deliver it." The draft was by now difficult to
> enforce, nor did disgrace attach to either desertion
> or evasion. Indeed, Williams concludes that the
> Confederacy would have collapsed from within if there
> hadn't been a Union victory.
>
> [...]
>
> ...the bands of poorer Southern whites who organized
> against the Confederacy and who indeed were abused and
> exploited by their overlords, first as wage-slaves and
> then as canon fodder. Sadly, these Confederate
> deserters never understood that not even the one thing
> they held onto as their own—their self-image as
> whites—actually belonged to them. Rather it was one
> among many means used by rich men to exploit them.
>
> The Rev. Thandeka is associate professor of theology
> and culture at Meadville/Lombard Theological School.
>
> ==============[End_Quoted_Text]=============================
>
> And that's the name of that tune.

I will find the actual book soon.................

[Coco DeSockmonkey]

Go fetch!

[rao...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, August 14, 2014 at 10:54:46 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> On Thursday, August 14, 2014 5:32:10 PM UTC-4, Peter J Ross wrote:
> > _for michael brown_
> >
> > robin williams
> > appeared in many filliams
> > he was an annoying little twerp
> > whose death one has to pretend
> > to deplore as if he were
> lauren bacall
> > albéric magnard
> > her majesty the queen mother
> > and god
> > but not as if he were
> > an unimportant black
> > missouri boy
> > called michael brown
> > whose death's inarticulate failure
> > will be fictioned one day no doubt
> > by some other grinning clown
> > oscared and emmyed and deserving
> > to die of depression
>
> > PJR, 2014-08-14
>
> You should stick with light verse. You're actually pretty funny.
>
> Although you may be jumping the gun on turning M. Brown into a martyr. For all you know, he may have been an annoying little twerp as well.

“Slurp”

[Zod]

Ha ha ha hah...