Re: [vintagvw] Abridged summary of vintagvw@googlegroups.com - 3 Messages in 1 Topic
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Kyle Davis
Aug 1, 2013, 10:54:18 AM8/1/13
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It is the charging system. After starting it up, disconnected the battery and the engine promptly died out.
going to try replacing generator brushes first.
it could be a shot voltage regulator, but, if so, does anybody know which kind was common in 12 volt conversions? The one that they bolted to the fan shroud?
On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 11:54 AM, <vint...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Group: http://groups.google.com/group/vintagvw/topics
- 1966 vw beetle issues [3 Updates]
Kyle Davis <01ks...@gmail.com> Jul 29 09:24AM -0400
> Hey all,
Picked this up about four weeks ago. Need to get it running more
reliably. It's been in the brake shop for three out of four of those weeks.
I've replaced the battery ...more
Mike B <mbuc...@charter.net> Jul 29 09:38AM -0400
It sounds like your generator or voltage (not bilge!) regulator are not
working to keep the batt charged. If you disconnect the batt positive
post with it running and the engine dies, then you're ...more
--
Dean Johnson <dean.g....@gmail.com> Jul 29 09:40AM -0400
Test the output voltage of the generator/regulator with the engine running,
rev it up a bit as generators don't work well at low rpm. You should get 13
to 14 volts when you rev it up. ...more
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Mike B.
Aug 1, 2013, 11:21:59 PM8/1/13
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Is the gen warning light in the speedo
coming on when you turn the key on then going out after you start
the engine? Make sure your dash oil pressure and gen warning
lights are working! The problem could be either the generator or
the voltage regulator. It's possible that the 12V conversion
located the VR on the gen, on the fan housing on the firewall or
under the back seat, depending on where the person installed it.
It makes good sense to put it on or near the generator due to ease
of wiring. You could try pushing in on the gen brushes with a
pencil or a popsicle stick while it's running (carefully!) If it
starts to charge (the dash warning light goes out), the the
brushes are worn and replacing them may fix you problem cheaply
and easily.
Mike B.
Mike B.
Chuck Kuecker
Aug 2, 2013, 6:58:20 AM8/2/13
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A slight nitpick - the idiot light is critical to power-up an
alternator, but a generator will power-up when it spins a bit faster
than cranking - so a dead idiot light won't prevent charging with a
generator. The residual magnetism in the generator gets it going.
That's why you need to "flash" the field in a generator sometimes.
Alternators can't self-start - they need field power form that idiot light to get going.
Back to my cave...
Chuck Kuecker
Alternators can't self-start - they need field power form that idiot light to get going.
Back to my cave...
Chuck Kuecker
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Kyle Davis
Aug 3, 2013, 12:16:55 AM8/3/13
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Both idiot lights light up. They both show as RED in the ON (pre start) condition.
If one of them is supposed to show green, that doesn't ever happen.
Before I swapped out the generator brushes, when the car would die both idiot lights would come on.
Oil level is fine, however; there is an oil leak.
As far as 12 volt and 6 volt components go, here's what I have figured out:
Definitely a 12 volt battery.
Possibly a 12 volt generator.
Definitely a 6 volt coil (I installed that one without thinking-is this going to cause problems down the line?)
A 12 volt regulator
12 volt generator brushes (wonder what the difference is between 12 volt and 6 volt brushes?)
Original 6 volt starter (I'm guessing here, but that is still my guess.)
From near as what I can figure, the owner before the previous owner must have done the conversion to either fix bad starting condition? or put in a really cheap am fm cassette radio. Believe it is moreso the latter, and not so much the former.
Me, myself, would be happy with one of those retrosound systems, but first things first- paint job, and the myriad of other parts it needs to look presentable.
Also, somewhere along in there, and hopefully before winter sets in, a tuneup. Figure get the points, do all of that, and see how it goes.
There is definitely a short of some sort in the electric system. Not sure how or where to track it down, but the dome light doesn't seem to work, nor do the headlights. The brake lights, and the tun signals work, though.
Speedo gauge works, that's a good sign.
the fuel gauge appears to work, too. When I thought that I hadn't fixed this dying out while running condition, turns out between my boy helping me run the car while I adjust the carb and me trying to start it, it ran it bone dry.
Plan on cleaning out the engine area from all oil and grease. Figure that may be a good area to start looking for the oil leaks.
Any tips on doing this?
Let me know,
Kyle 66 bug
On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 11:54 AM, <vint...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Kyle Davis <01ks...@gmail.com> Aug 01 10:54AM -0400
It is the charging system. After starting it up, disconnected the battery
and the engine promptly died out.
going to try replacing generator brushes first.
"Mike B." <mbuc...@charter.net> Aug 01 11:21PM -0400
Is the gen warning light in the speedo coming on when you turn the key
on then going out after you start the engine? Make sure your dash oil
Chuck Kuecker <ckue...@ckent.org> Aug 02 05:58AM -0500
A slight nitpick - the idiot light is critical to power-up an
alternator, but a generator will power-up when it spins a bit faster
Mike B.
Aug 3, 2013, 8:04:51 AM8/3/13
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Kyle,
Did changing your gen brushes solve the problem? the difference between 6V and 12V brushes is size; 6v brushes are narrow in width and 12V brushes are wide, they are not interchangeable. So you say you have both idiot lights working; they both come on when the key is on, then go out when the engine starts, then come back on when the engine dies, correct?
That's fine that they're both red, but the gen one is supposed to be green to differentiate the two, so you know what the problem is. Unplug the oil pressure switch and then turn the key to see which one didn't come on; that's your oil light. It's easy to switch the bulbholders around on the back of the speedo to make it show the oil on the right (green) and gen on the left (red), if they're backwards from original. Wolfsburg West sells the colored lens cells to replace them inside the speedo, but it has to come apart to install them as they glue to the backside of the dial. No, you shouldn't run a 6V coil in a 12V car, it will burn out quickly, which goes for just about every other 6V component, except the starter. You can run a 6V starter in a 12V car for years with no problem, it just spins faster, which is not a bad thing. It's only used for a very short amount of time and very infrequently, so the heavy windings inside can take the heat for years before it eventually burns out. Many folks choose to convert to 12V for better starting, to use a 'better' modern radio, more readily available replacement parts, etc. I just did a complete conversion on a friends '65 bug, including the wiper motor armature, which is also offered by WW. Every bulb, starter, alternator (w/internal regulator), coil, carb idle cutoff and choke element, turn signal flasher, cigarette lighter, headlights, etc. Any item you don't replace will burn out sooner or later.
There's no easy way to degrease an entire engine and transaxle. It's all manual labor for me. Some folks use oven cleaner and a pressure washer, but you've got to be careful with both. Yes, clean the mess, find the leak(s) and fix them. Feed it's oil habit religiously until then, or your engine will burn out soon also!
Mike B.
Did changing your gen brushes solve the problem? the difference between 6V and 12V brushes is size; 6v brushes are narrow in width and 12V brushes are wide, they are not interchangeable. So you say you have both idiot lights working; they both come on when the key is on, then go out when the engine starts, then come back on when the engine dies, correct?
That's fine that they're both red, but the gen one is supposed to be green to differentiate the two, so you know what the problem is. Unplug the oil pressure switch and then turn the key to see which one didn't come on; that's your oil light. It's easy to switch the bulbholders around on the back of the speedo to make it show the oil on the right (green) and gen on the left (red), if they're backwards from original. Wolfsburg West sells the colored lens cells to replace them inside the speedo, but it has to come apart to install them as they glue to the backside of the dial. No, you shouldn't run a 6V coil in a 12V car, it will burn out quickly, which goes for just about every other 6V component, except the starter. You can run a 6V starter in a 12V car for years with no problem, it just spins faster, which is not a bad thing. It's only used for a very short amount of time and very infrequently, so the heavy windings inside can take the heat for years before it eventually burns out. Many folks choose to convert to 12V for better starting, to use a 'better' modern radio, more readily available replacement parts, etc. I just did a complete conversion on a friends '65 bug, including the wiper motor armature, which is also offered by WW. Every bulb, starter, alternator (w/internal regulator), coil, carb idle cutoff and choke element, turn signal flasher, cigarette lighter, headlights, etc. Any item you don't replace will burn out sooner or later.
There's no easy way to degrease an entire engine and transaxle. It's all manual labor for me. Some folks use oven cleaner and a pressure washer, but you've got to be careful with both. Yes, clean the mess, find the leak(s) and fix them. Feed it's oil habit religiously until then, or your engine will burn out soon also!
Mike B.
Kyle
Aug 4, 2013, 4:25:36 PM8/4/13
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Ok,
Here is the latest:
It will start, then promptly died on me after a distance of about a mile and a half of driving.
When it died, only one light came on and I took that for the generator light still.
I guess I should investigate which light is which.
Hopefully the engine didn't overheat.
I am going to go out and look at it and see what kind of trouble I can get into. I will replace the 6 volt coil with the 12 volt and see how it goes.
Kyle
66 bug
Impatient wife
Impending mother in law visit
Chuck Kuecker
Aug 6, 2013, 7:44:24 AM8/6/13
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If no one moved the bulbs, the left (red) light is generator, the right
- green - is oil pressure. If the engine is in good shape, the oil light
will stay off a few seconds after the engine stalls.
I missed some of the beginning of this thread - if the car was sitting
for a long time, I would wonder about mouse nests in the fan shroud -
I've seen a few in my time, and engines will overheat quickly.
Start it and check for airflow out of the bottom of the engine on both
sides - there should be a fair flow past the cylinders. Won't guaranteed
there's no obstructions, but at least will show if there's a big problem.
I have pulled fan shrouds with the engine in the car - you have to
remove the engine lid and the hinge supports to do it. Lots easier if
you pop the motor, of course. Pulling an engine is one of the basic
air-cooled VW owner skills!
Chuck Kuecker
-----
Version: 2012.0.2242 / Virus Database: 3209/6054 - Release Date: 08/05/13
- green - is oil pressure. If the engine is in good shape, the oil light
will stay off a few seconds after the engine stalls.
I missed some of the beginning of this thread - if the car was sitting
for a long time, I would wonder about mouse nests in the fan shroud -
I've seen a few in my time, and engines will overheat quickly.
Start it and check for airflow out of the bottom of the engine on both
sides - there should be a fair flow past the cylinders. Won't guaranteed
there's no obstructions, but at least will show if there's a big problem.
I have pulled fan shrouds with the engine in the car - you have to
remove the engine lid and the hinge supports to do it. Lots easier if
you pop the motor, of course. Pulling an engine is one of the basic
air-cooled VW owner skills!
Chuck Kuecker
Version: 2012.0.2242 / Virus Database: 3209/6054 - Release Date: 08/05/13
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