PRESIDENT'S KIN USURPED LAND, SAYS COURT
and/or www.mantra.com/jai
Vaibhav Ganjapure & Vaidehi More, TNN
The Times of India
Thursday, February 11, 2010
Nagpur - A local court in Maharashtra has upheld a farmer's plea that
India's first family had fraudulently usurped a little more than one
hectare of his farmland. Surprisingly, the order was made last
December 7 but never made public since the order wasn't given to
either party until Tuesday.
In the order, the court of Daryapur subdivisional officer Ashok
Amankar directed striking off the names of President Pratibha Patil
Shekhawat's family from the records and upheld Kishor Bansod's claim
that the transfer of ownership was done using fraudulent means.
The SDO, while partly allowing an appeal filed by the aggrieved
farmer, cancelled a mutation entry of October 5, 2007, which named,
apart from the president's husband Devisingh Shekhawat, family
members Siddheshwar, Raghusingh, Bhawarsingh, Kishorsingh and Omsingh
Shekhawat.
Devisingh told TOI on Wednesday the allegation was baseless and
nothing but a publicity gimmick by the appellant. "The total land of
1.02 hectare was jointly held by Bansod and Siddheshwar Shekhawat and
five others," he said.
Devisingh clarified that the court has only partially allowed the
appeal while directing revenue officials to measure the land afresh
and restore ownership to the original joint owners. Devisingh claimed
that Bansod had been illegally cultivating on their piece of land and
since he was also working as part-time journalist, was seeking undue
publicity. "It might be an error committed by the officials who
measured it. I have only one acre of land in my name which I would
have donated to any of my family members," he said.
Congress party also rushed to his defence, saying it would be
premature to judge him guilty. "It would be wrong to jump to
conclusions on the basis of one-sided facts," said party spokesman
Abhishek Singhvi.
The SDO also directed superintendent of town planning in Daryapur in
Amravati district to measure the disputed tract and asked the
Shekhawat family to bear the cost of the exercise.
According to the appellant's counsel Sunil Gajbhiye, Shekhwat
family's land was adjacent Bansod's land measuring 1.02 hectares in
Chandrapur Khallar village and Shekhawat's wanted Bansod to sell it
to them.
Later, revenue officials got the ownership entry in the name of
Shekawat family members and it was made official on October 5, 2007
without informing the appellant, Bansod alleged.
Bansod filed an application under Section 247 of Maharashtra Land
Ownership Act 1966 before Daryapur SDO's court, demanding immediate
stay on the alleged illegal transfer of his land by the Shekhawat
family. He contended that after his refusal to sell his land,
Shekhawat family members connived with local officials and
transferred his land in their names on the key documents.
Only a small bit was left with Bansod as per records.
Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti
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bademiyansubhanallah
Feb 11, 7:45 pm
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian, alt.fan.jai-maharaj,
rec.arts.movies.local.indian, soc.culture.indian.marathi, alt.politics
From: use...@mantra.com and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 00:45:16 GMT
Local: Thurs, Feb 11 2010 7:45 pm
Subject: PRESIDENT'S KIN USURPED LAND, SAYS COURT
More at:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Presidents-kin-usurped-land-...
Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi, aka Jay Stevens, self styled converted "Vedic
Jyotishi,"
formerly from Hawaai, USA, now on the run. Hindu "soldier of
fortune,"
A "BJP Buccaneer," "Hindu Hound dog," Christian hater. Loves bashing
Christian
missionaries. Loves cross-posting to variety of internet discussion
groups,
as long as it suits his purpose. God knows what.
Bane to internet news-groups yet adored by Hindu fundamentalists of
BJP, RSS,
VHP, Bajrang Dal, ABVP kind. Brings joy and "Jai Ho" kind of
euphoria to
Saffron crowd. "May Allah be Praised," for his genuine penchant of
pure and
unalderated hate for Muslims, Christians, Congress Party of India,
Sonia Gandhi,
all things American. All things Communist, All things Imaginary, the
list goes on
and on, ad nauseum, nay, nauseating!
A goddamned Liar, starting from his fake Doctorate to his fake name,
Dr. Jai Maharaj.
"satyameva jayate" Let the Truth win, a Sanskrit motto.
" Inshallah" The God is Great!
Om Shanti
BJP office bearer’s account under scanner?
Posted by Santosh Joy on Friday, January 29, 2010
While it tries to revive itself from the downturn, controversies seem
not dying down in BJP -the main opposition. The latest being the
controversy involving a imposter who tried to collect details of the
bank account of the party’s national office secretary Shyam Jaju.
Jaju’s account details in the Ashoka Road Andhra Bank was sought by a
pretender claiming to be his relative on Thursday. The bank manager
rang up Jaju to confirm and ultimately the man was handed over to the
BJP men.
“The matter was non-cognizable and hence we have not approached the
police,” said Jaju.
While insiders in the party say the imposter, who claimed to be a news
channel reporter when caught, was beaten up first inside the party
office and then handed over to the police.
A senior party leader when approached to know the details of the
incident had a totally different version to narrate than what appears
and is being said.
Jaju was under the scanner of the top leadership ever since there was
a reported 2.5 crore burglary from the BJP central office in December
2008. The top leader although declined to give further detail on the
incident but also did not rule out a possibility of the imposter being
send by the BJP itself to verify Jaju’s account to frame charges
against him.
While further details are awaited on the antecedents of the imposter
and his motives, the general feeling in BJP circles is that something
is cooking in the BJP central office and a upheaval of all the office
bearers of the Rajnath regime is soon awaited.
http://blog.livemint.com/have-you-heard/2010/01/29/bjp-office-bearers-account-under-scanner/
Gandhis’ encounters with tigers!
Posted by Liz Mathew on Monday, February 8, 2010
Instead of a lion, it was to beard a tiger that Rahul Gandhi went to
its den in Mumbai. A day ahead, his sister Priyanka was in Rathambore
sanctuary to try her luck in spotting a tiger! Both the missions were
succesful!
Although Congress leaders say that Thackerays are paper tigers –
senior Congress leader Digvijay Singh dubbed Thackerays as ‘paper
tigers’ and no need to pay any attention to them – , the Amethi MP
looked quite happy and contended at his mission in Maharashtra. Apart
from the extensive media coverage – most of the news channels had
nothing but live telecast of the Gandhi scion’s Mumbai visit at least
till afternoon -, Rahul appeared to have asserted himself as the most
daring youth icon.
According to some Congress leaders, (obviously sycophants) in the
party headquarters, Rahul has proved himself as a courageous leader
who can take on any enemies of the country.
Congress leaders, who were quite disappointed with Rahul, after
witnessing his not-so-good-parliamentary performance in the 14th Lok
Sabha are now happy that the next Gandhi is finally launched! From his
part, Rahul, who was initially a reluctant entrant into politics, has
now started giving them hopes. Although critics made fun of him for
his ‘discovering India expeditions’, the 39-year-old Amethi MP is
making inroads into the rural India. His interactions with students in
the campuses and the attempts to rejuvenating the Congress party,
especially among the youth, have apparently started showing results.
According to Rahul’s aides, four million
youth have already registered as new members in the Congress party.
At the same time, his sister Priyanka, seen by many as the grand child
who has inherited late prime minister Indira Gandhi’s qualities, is
increasingly withdrawing from the poltical scene. There was a time
many Congressmen and women thought Priyanka, instead of Rahul, to take
the reins of the party from her mother and Congress chief Sonia
Gandhi. But her political activities have so far been confined to the
constituencies of her mother and brother.
Comments
2 Responses to “Gandhis’ encounters with tigers!”
Rajendra Asthana says:
February 8, 2010 at 6:25 pm
Mr. Rahul Gandhi covered an area 10Km by 15Km. this area was flooded
by 45000 policemen.Commissioner of Police Shivanadan and Addl.
commisioner of Police(Crime) Rakesh Maria were visible.At no point of
time in the history of Mumbai, was such a large mobilisation of police
done. Rahul could not beard the tiger, Tiger’s mere growl made Rahul
run under the cover of 45000 strong police force . The Andheri Dadar
Ghatkopar train ride was protected by more than 100 policemen riding
the railway bogey. Any commuter in Mumbai knows 12:30-13:30 hours is
lightest moment in mumbai locals. The train ride proves nothing. But
cover of 45000 policemen to Congress party’s Yuvaraj, proves who was
scared of whom. The real test is holding a public meeting in shivaji
Park not a meeting with chosen few in Bhaidas hall. Rahul Gandhi’s
visit did not change a thing, for the immigrant selling fish,
vegetables, newspapers, or plying taxi in the city. Rahul Gandhi would
do well to leave immigrants at their own, they will survive with or
without him. But the problem is Mr. Gandhi’s politics, to get foothold
in Bihar, he is making noises against the Shiv Sena, forgetting that
when MNS was bashing up immigrant taxi drivers and small vendors Mr.
Rahul Gandhi and his Chief Minister in Mumbai Ashok Chavan were
looking to the other side, May be to win Maharashtra elections! Rahul
Gandhi would do well to do some introspection for apparently
contradictory and everchanging stance being taken by him as well as
his party, as the election dates approach and recede.
Raj Murugesan says:
February 9, 2010 at 5:35 pm
Whatever said and done, mr. Asthana, we should admit that it was a
brilliant political move. Mr.Gandhi (Congress party’s Yuvaraj as you
called him) has done that very smartly. The timing was perfect! Of
course one can argue over its results or the changes it has brought..
He is a politician at the end of the day!
http://blog.livemint.com/have-you-heard/2010/02/08/gandhis-encounters-with-tigers/
Why are Bangalore govt officials working at even midnight?
Posted by Venkatesha Babu on Friday, January 15, 2010
Bangalore has a fairly well deserved reputation of working round the
clock as a large chunk of the city’s IT and BPO industries cater to
international customers across time zones. But government officials
burning the midnight oil?
The past couple of days, officials of the civic body BBMP (Bruhat
Bangalore Mahanagar Palike) have been working round the clock, even
past midnight. But if you thought this is indicative of a new sense of
urgency which has seized the government in addressing the city’s civic
woes, think again.
Government officials have been on overdrive to award tender contracts
worth Rs 3248 crore before the election code of conduct comes into
force today. (Elections to the civic body are scheduled for Feb 21st).
The government ministers are defending the move on the basis that they
couldn’t wait one month for the election of the people’s
representatives and then wait a further period of time before they
decided whether or not to speed up civic works. A facile explanation
indeed.
It is a well known fact that civic tender works are usually handed out
to contractors close to the ruling party. With the BJP uncertain of
getting a majority in the 198 member body this time around, it has set
officials on an overdrive to award contracts.
While the Congress and Janata Dal (Secular) are crying foul, the BJP
is not alone in these kinds of shenanigans. All parties are guilty of
this and have done the same when they have held power. Garbage removal
contracts are among the most prized.
But some of the contracts awarded really raise some serious questions.
As P.R. Ramesh a former Mayor of the city and a Congress member points
out “In Andhra Pradesh the a 11.63 km four lane expressway connecting
Hyderabad to the airport cost Rs 439 crore indicating a cost of Rs
37.75 crore per km. Whereas in Bangalore a similar flyover has been
awarded at the rate of Rs 85 crore per km. Why is their a huge
difference ?”
Why indeed ? Unless greater transparency is brought to the awarding of
government contracts, these kinds of deals will continue and people
will be subjected to the surreal experience of seeing their government
employees working past mid-night.
Who paid Krishna’s hotel bills, asks Amar Singh!
Posted by Liz Mathew on Friday, September 25, 2009
Krishna in happier times
There seems to be no respite for external affairs minister S.M.
Krishna, who has been under fire for his stay in a private luxurious
hotel, from the controversies! The media reports that his ministry had
pushed the government hard to get the rules bent to pay his hotel
bills have already pooh-poohed his claims that he had made private
arrangements to meet the expenses.
On Friday, Samajwadi Party general secretary Amar Singh, who claimed
that he had never asked the government to pay his hospital bills-
despite being entitled for it – questioned the high moral stand taken
by Krishna. Singh, who has just returned from Singapore where he had
undergone a kidney transplant, raised a relevant question- who paid
Krishna’s bills?
According to Singh, if it was paid by Krishna himself, he should
reveal its source. “If it is paid by his son-in-law (V.G. Siddhartha
who owns Café Coffee Day), it violates Company laws,” Singh said
explaining that a corporate house can only pay for the five-star stay
of its directors. “It also amounts to conflict of interest. It’s a
matter or propriety too. So Krishna, whom I respect, should come out
clean on this,” Singh said. “Caesar’s wife also should be above
suspicion,” the SP general secretary advised.
There was another piece of advice for the Congress and the United
Progressive Alliance government too. “Austerity is a measure to be
observed, not a policy to be marketed!”
rated 4.0 by 5 people [?]
Comments
6 Responses to “Who paid Krishna’s hotel bills, asks Amar Singh!”
sharad mohan says:
September 26, 2009 at 12:00 am
who ever paid the bills , thank god it wasn’t me !
sage says:
September 30, 2009 at 1:50 pm
sharad for all u know it can be our “tax payers” money
Daksh says:
September 30, 2009 at 1:23 am
didn’t know the bit ’bout his son-in-law….no wonder CCD has grown so
fast.
Chattikkooth says:
September 30, 2009 at 6:28 pm
We no nothing man! all these are interlinked.. thanks to responsible
media!
ranjan says:
October 2, 2009 at 2:41 pm
amar singh the big mouth is back…all netas are of the same league…
Mohit says:
October 7, 2009 at 12:56 pm
Either way it is tax payer’s money.Because of furore everywhere, he
may not get the paymnet from ministry at this juncture but when the
dust will settle, he will quitely get the payment of his bills. He
might have paid at present but will definitely get the same at the
later date. His deputy will also get the money. Please take a note
that Ministrs do not pay a single penny to any body, some only take
Winter session Day 1: Sugar tastes bitter, disruption wins over debate
Posted by Ruhi Tewari on Thursday, November 19, 2009
The government’s new sugarcane pricing policy left it with a bitter
taste in its mouth as the first day of the winter session of
Parliament began on a tempestuous note with the opposition (joined by
some UPA allies) turning the heat on the government over the issue and
disrupting proceedings of the House.
A united opposition threatened not to allow Parliament to function
till the centre withdrew the ordinance, alleging the decision on the
Sugarcane (Control) Amendment Order, 2009 was taken without consulting
the state governments or any political party.
Without getting into the validity and soundness of the opposition’s
contention, it has been as that as far as Indian Parliament is
concerned, there is a very thin line of distinction between dissent
and disruption. While it is nobody’s case that dissent is not a
legitimate democratic tool, the former often crosses the line and
turns into disruption, interrupting House proceedings and wasting
valuable Parliament time. This time could have been spent in debating
and discussing the same issue constructively and keeping a check on
the government using question hour. After all, isn’t debate and
dialogue more desirable and meaningful than loud, stubborn protests?
And disruption of House proceedings has other consequences as well.
When the opposition disrupts the first hour in Parliament, it actually
results in the loss of an opportunity to keep a check on the
government through question hour because the time on question hour
once lost is never made up, even with Parliament sitting late. The
question hour is strictly between 11am and 12 noon and once lost, the
opposition misses the chance on cross questioning the government on
that day.
According to PRS Legislative Research, the percentage of time lost due
to interruptions in question hour last year was 42%. The figure was
23% in 2004, 30% in 2005, 44% in 2006 and 51% in 2007.
Thus while any Parliament time lost due to disruption can be made up
by putting in extra hours, the time devoted to question hour is
irretrievable once lost. But clearly, these technicalities and
considerations barely figure in our parliamentarians’ game plan and in
shrewd political strategizing. Shrill and camera friendly protests
obviously make more political sense and have a greater immediate
impact than productive deliberation within the House.
With the first day of this session of Parliament beginning on such a
turbulent tone, the script seems to have been written for this month-
long session!
Note: The Sugarcane Control (Amendment) Order 2009 Ordinance has
changed the sugarcane pricing policy, fixing a uniform Fair and
Remunerative Price (FRP), which would put the burden on states if they
choose to pay more than FRP
Kill Bill UPA
Posted by Liz Mathew on Friday, December 18, 2009
Image via Wikipedia The Congress-led UPA government today broke a
record that it set in the last winter session!
The UPA-I had set a record in 2008 winter session by passing as many
as eight bills in a span of 17 minutes on 23 December. If it had set
its previous record amid the din created by the opposition, it was a
disorder made by its own MPs on Friday. On the last day of the winter
session – the session was expected to conclude on Monday – the
government managed to pass five bills, many of them important, and
introduced two more despite vehement protests from the opposition,
especially the Left parties.
On Wednesday, the government had passed three bills in 15 minutes
without any discussions.
It was absolute chaos in the lower house on Friday (In fact, it was so
since Monday when all hell broke lose as MPs from Andhra Pradesh began
both supporting and opposing the creation of Telangana). Although four
of the Telugu Desam Party (TDP) MPs were shouting slogans standing in
the well of the house for ‘united Andhra Pradesh’, the question hour
functioned till Congress MPs joined them around 11.20. The house was
adjourned at 1130 for half-an-hour. When it met at 12 pm, things went
uncontrollable again. For a while, Congress MPs, who were divided over
Telangana, were united to disturb the proceedings. Jaganmohan Reddy,
who the other day joined hands with TDP inviting ire of the party,
today distributed banners saying “down down TDP double stand” to all
the party MPs. Apart from Andhra Pradesh MPs, Bodoland Peoples Front
(BPF) MP Sansuma Khunggur Bwiswmuthiary was also there at the centre
of the House holding a poster demanding Bodoland.
No minister, even finance minister Pranab Mukherjee, who is otherwise
a stickler for rules, appeared to be bothered about what
constitutional experts often say is “undemocratic.” The government was
so cheeky that they even dragged a minister from the Rajya Sabha to
pass one of the bills today. The uproar was so strong that the
ministers could not even hear what the speaker was saying.
During this session, the third of the 15th Lok Sabha, created another
record. The speaker had to cut short the one-hour-long question, as 34
MPs, whose names were listed in the list, were absent. MPs’ absence on
Mondays and Fridays has become a usual affair in Parliament.
Many political observers pointed out that MPs are increasingly
becoming disinterested in the legislation, the primary duty of
lawmakers. The house struggles to put together a quorum during
discussions on bills, unless it is a controversial one. Not many are
keen to speak on the bills.
The MPs complain that they do not get any media coverage if they speak
on important bills and that the media always cover the disruptions and
adjournments.
http://blog.livemint.com/have-you-heard/2009/12/18/kill-bill-upa/
...and I am Sid Harth
bademiyansubhanallah
PTI
First Published : 12 Feb 2010 11:54:50 AM IST
BANGALORE: The BJP government in Karnataka today slammed the Congress
and JDS for its opposition to the proposed legislation on banning cow
slaughter in the state and termed it as "politically motivated".
"The opposition by Congress and JDS which once had cow and calf and
bullocks as their party symbol is nothing but vote bank politics",
Karnataka Home Minister Dr V S Acharya told reporters here.
Apparently targetting JDS chief H D Deve Gowda, who threatened to
agitate if the government went ahead with the enactment of the
legislation, Acharya said his "true colours" have been exposed now".
Gowda should have taken a lead role in saving the cows from being
butchered, he said.
Defending the government's decision to bring in a law to ban cow
slaughter, he said the legislation was well within the provisions of
the Constitution and on the model of Jammu and Kashmir act, which has
stood the test of legal scrutiny.
On JDS's protests against Nandi Infrastructure Corridor Enterprise
promoted Bangalore-Mysore Expressway, Acharya said there was a
"conspiracy" by the party which initiated it, apparently pointing his
fingers at the then Janata Dal government which signed the MoU and
also finalised the Framework agreement in 1997.
He said the government has not allotted any land to any one from its
land bank and criticised Gowda's move to oppose creation of land bank
for industrial development.
Comments
Shame.Hindus&BJP,ShameAs per a recent report mote than 90 crores
rupess has been spent to keeep keasab the jehadi mass killer in jail
and to feed him beef biriyani &other highc lass benefits and now more
than 30 crores spent for this mvie by anti-hindu,anti-national SRK.
But the families of 200 hindus and sikhs killed in mumbai terror
attack and families of more than 100o people injured in attack have
reveived nothing.Now more than 5000 hindus have been put in jail for
doing a patriotic duty. We are now a banana republic where 80 crore
majority hindus are being ruled by a mafia suported by anti-hindu and
anti-national jehadis and vatican agents. Time for an independence
movement has come and RSS,VHP,BJP&all hindus must join Shiv Sena
tigers to kick out all anti-hindu and anti-indian demons ande
demonesses in politics,media, cinema and all other fields, to cleanse
the country of terror,slavery and corruption&disintegration.
By True Hindustani
2/12/2010 2:19:00 PM
ALL indians&ALL Hindus Must Answer: WHY reservation for religious
minrotities in a SECULAR country?Why NO hindu or patriotic secualar
indian or polticial party NOT questioning its validity in high courts&
supreme court? UN charter says that NOcountry need to give reservation
to minorities if they exceed 5 percent of populaion&in our couny of
more than 85 crores moronic majority hindus, though minority
muslims&christians are more than 15 percent of population,they are
given special benefits& reservations by crooked congress&allies TO
keep minorities as perpetual vote banks&to split hindus. Why NO one or
polticial party or citizen group including RSS,VHP,BJP,Shiv Sena etc
ARE still sleeping&NOTprotesting or agitating against this gross
injustice&aberration&NOT fling case in High Court&Supreme Court
against this unconstitutional Act or law ?Cry,cry my beloved hindus&my
beloved country
By True Hindustani
2/12/2010 12:37:00 PM
RSS,VHP&BJP must Campaign Hard till cow slugher is BANNED all over
the country, not just in Karnataka alone.Further,Mr Gadkari &BJP&RSS
must do the maximum to unite all hindus and to Make hindus First Class
Citizens of the country and make minroty muslims and christians thord
class citizens using all sorts of methods possible.Gadkari must make
majority hindus solid vote banks and kick out all congress crooks and
farudulent allies who are splitting hindus and making them fight all
the time. BJP,RSS,VHP and all Hindus must stop making speeches and
must wake up now and start taking necessary actions without any more
delay to stop the hindu splitting games.Ranganath Mishra like Rajesh
Sacchar are biggest traitors of the country&we are not short of
traitors& jai chands& slaves.Can any one tell me WHY reservation for
religious minrotities in a SECULAR country?Why NO hindu or patriotic
secualar indian or polticial party NOT questioning its validity in
high courts& supreme court?
By True Hindustani
2/12/2010 12:34:00 PM
Pork thrown into Surathkal mosques
Express News Service
First Published : 11 Feb 2010 03:47:00 AM IST
Last Updated : 11 Feb 2010 08:08:13 AM IST
MANGALORE: Miscreants pulled off another instance of anti-social
activity aimed at sparking off communal tension on the outskirts of
Mangalore on Tuesday night, when they threw a beheaded pig and
portions of its flesh in the premises of two mosques in Surathkal.
In Baikampady police station limits, the miscreants kept the carcass
of a beheaded pig on the premises of a mosque at Angaragundi. In Bajpe
police station, the miscreants kept a packet of pork on the compound
wall of a mosque in Paduperare.
In both places, locals found the pig flesh on Wednesday morning,
seeing this, they informed the police in both areas. Police, who
rushed to the spot and cleaned the mosque surroundings, assured the
mosque authorities that they will trace the miscreants.
Meanwhile, people from different communties assured the police to
maintain calm in the localities. Baikampady police arrested one
Pushparaj of Surathkal related to the Baikampady incident.
G’barga’s Chammavuge made of human skin
Ramkrishna Badseshi
First Published : 08 Feb 2010 09:44:07 AM IST
GULBARGA: About 40 kilometres from Gulbarga, travelling in one of the
four Tam Tams that ply from Malakhed, one reaches the sleepy village
of Bijanalli using a road that is in dire need of repair.
Four kilometres from Malakhed, even the Northeast Karnataka Road
Transport Corporation, which claims to run buses to all the villages
in its range, does not run buses to the village.
Many visitors and villagers prefer to walk to the village, which seems
to have been ignored even by historians — despite its importance of
housing footwear made of human skin — from the thighs.
Gulbarga Gazetteer, published by the Karnataka government and other
documents available about the village say that the footwear was made
by one Haralayya and his wife Kalyanamma using skin from their own
thighs. They are housed in Bijanalli of Sedam taluk.
Shamrao Belagumpi, vice president of Bijanalli Jirnodhar Samiti, told
Express that experts from Karnataka University, Dharwar and from the
University of Mysore, who visited Bijanalli about two decades back,
took a small piece of the footwear with them for testing and later
confirmed that they were made of human skin.
After confirmation from the experts, Dr Shivkumarswami, seer of
Brahnmath Sirigere of Chitradurga district, rushed to Bijanalli and
requested that the footwear be handed over to the Brahanmath of
Sirigere because they were souvenirs from the Basava period.
However, the villagers refused.
The seer then gave them Rs 20,000 and an advice to preserve them
cautiously. Using the sum, a transparent glass box was made and the
footwear kept in it. As advised by the seer, the villagers also
stopped washing the footwear.
THE PRESENT DAY RITUALS
Preparing the footwear for gods/goddesses has been prevalent in
Gulbarga district for centuries. While old-timers claim that the
ritual has existed for more than 1000 years, cobblers say Haralayya
inspired them to do so by his deeds in the 12th century.
Cobblers in Chimnalli and neighboring Kallur village prepare footwear
from the skin of a bull for various deities in Gulbarga.
Order for the skin of a fresh bull is placed at Bijapur a fortnight
before the celebrations and the butchers are told to kill bull without
a disease or wound on the body and hand over the entire skin, from the
head to the tail - including that of the legs. The cobblers then bring
the skin to the respective villages, and make the footwear - a
practice followed every two years. The footwear is made to its old
size and handed over to the temple authorities.
It is kept near the entrance of the temple to offer it to the deity,
who is believed to take rounds of the village at night to protect its
people.
http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/story.aspx?Title=G’barga’s+Chammavuge+made+of+human+skin&artid=jOfUYZL3Kq8=&SectionID=7GUA38txp3s=&MainSectionID=7GUA38txp3s=&SectionName=zkvyRoWGpmWSxZV2TGM5XQ==&SEO=
BJP criticises rejection of resignations
Express News Service
First Published : 01 Feb 2010 04:34:44 AM IST
HYDERABAD: Bharatiya Janata Party State president B Dattatreya today
took exception to Assembly Speaker N Kirankumar Reddy rejecting the
resignations of MLAs.
Talking with reporters here today, he said that the Speaker’s decision
was not in accordance with the earlier conventions.
He said the Speaker should take decisions in accordance with the rules
and regulations by considering the earlier practices and conventions.
He recalled that when Rajiv Gandhi was prime minister, the entire
Opposition quit the Lok Sabha by submitting resignations in protest
against the Bofors scam. In recent years TRS MPs and MLAs quit on the
Telangana issue and their resignations were accepted by the Lok Sabha
and Assembly Speakers. ``The Assembly Speaker should protect
individual freedom and, at the same time, try to understand that the
legislator was taking extreme step only by respecting the feelings of
majority people of his constituency.’’ The Speaker should not act like
a dictator, he said and cited the decisions of various Speakers being
questioned by members in Parliament and several State Assemblies.
He said that his party remained committed to resignations and advised
all Telangana MLAs to submit resignations if the Central Government
failed to keep its earlier promise on Telangana.
Accusing the Congress and TDP of pursuing opportunistic politics on
Telangana issue, he said the Telangana JAC extended its deadline from
January 28 to February 7 under pressure from the two major parties.
Touching upon other issues, the BJP State president said that the
Central and State governments totally failed to control the prices of
essential commodities and demanded holding of an all-party meeting to
discuss the issue. As part of its nationwide progromme the BJP will
organise `Chalo Raj Bhavan’ on February 5 in which senior national
leader M Venkaiah Naidu and all State leaders will take part.
BJP city president Ch Ramachandra Reddy was present at the press
conference.
8 Mysore BJP corporators go back to the JD(S)
Express News Service
First Published : 02 Feb 2010 05:13:00 AM IST
Last Updated : 02 Feb 2010 07:59:23 AM IST
MYSORE: The BJP, on Monday, received a jolt when eight corporators
from Mysore region-- who were inducted into the party from the JD(S)
under 'Operation lotus' during the Mayoral elections--left the BJP and
joined the JD(S). The corporators called on former Chief Minister and
state JD(S) president HD Kumaraswamy, and officially joined the party.
Among the defected JD(S) corporators T Devaraj, R Lingappa, R Prabhu
Murthy, Kempanna and Lakshmamma have officially returned to the party.
While, former Mayor H N Srikantiah, Health Committee chairman
Kareemuddin and K V Mallesh are expected to rejoin any moment.
These members faced a lot of criticism when they shifted loyalty to
the BJP camp during the Mayoral elections in February 2009.
The JD(S) leaders had accused the defected corporators of violating
the whip and had demanded that the Election Commission withdraw their
membership--as per the provisions of the anti-defection law. The
Regional Commissioner had conducted an enquiry and submitted a report
to the government recommending action against the defected
corporators. Subsequently, the Karnataka High Court had squashed the
memberships of the defected councillors in Kollegal Municipality and
Mandya city Municipality; thereby creating much apprehension among the
members.
Meanwhile, about eight corporators M L Somashekar, Shakeel Ahmad, S M
Nanda Kumar, Nigar Sultana, Fareeda Begum Mahadevamma, R Shivanna and
G H Vanitha who had extended support to BJP--and have been facing
charges as per the provisions of anti-defection law-- are also likely
to return to their parent parties to continue as corporators.
HDK welcomes corporators
Former Chief Minister H D Kumaraswmay, on Monday, welcomed the
defected JD(S) members back into the party fold. He said that their
return was a befitting reply to BJP's intention to continue with
'Operation Lots'.
Kumaraswamy alleged that the BJP had attracted the opposition party
corporators by promising grants for the development of their wards.
BJP govt defaming Gowda family: HDK]
Former Chief Minister HD Kumaraswamy on Monday accused Chief Minister
BS Yeddyurappa and the BJP of attempting a "character assassination"
of his family. He clarified that the Gowda family had not acquired or
purchased government land.
Kumaraswamy urged the government to acquire land owned by him near
Bidadi, if it could prove that the land falls within the proposed
Bangalore-Mysore Infrastructure Corridor project.
"Chief Minister BS Yeddyurappa and Advocate General Ashok Haranahalli
should act immediately and acquire the land, if they find that it
falls within BMIC. I, as a film producer, had bought the land from
farmers after paying them the market price; and not by acquiring
government land," he said here. He clarified that his family has not
acquired government land in Hassan district.
‘JD(S) has emerged primary oppn party’
Former Chief Minister HD Kumaraswamy said that the "Janata Parivar"
leaders in both the BJP and the Congress will return to the JD(S),
which has emerged as the primary opposition party in the state. He
said that the Congress, which is the official opposition party in the
Assembly, has passed on the responsibility to the JD(S).
"Prominent Janata Parivar leaders from across the state will soon come
back to the JD(S), which has become a strong alternative political
force," he said on Monday, adding that his party has continued to
expose the government and has made every effort to protect the
interests of the common man.
Alleging that a few Congress leaders are on the payroll of the BJP, he
said: "Congress leaders are invariably missing during important
discussions and introduction of bills in the house."
BJP accuses Digvijay of 'vote bank' politics
IANS
First Published : 04 Feb 2010 05:45:45 PM IST
NEW DELHI: The Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) Thursday criticised
Congress leader Digvijay Singh, who reportedly questioned the Batla
House shoot-out in Delhi after meeting the family of an alleged Indian
Mujahideen (IM) operative, for resorting to "vote bank politics".
"This was the worst manifestation of vote bank politics. The National
Human Rights Commission (NHRC) conducted an inquiry into it and found
that all allegations are wrong. Even the Delhi High Court and the
Supreme Court dismissed a PIL demanding a judicial inquiry into the
matter," BJP spokesman Ravi Shankar Prasad told reporters here.
He said that if Congress leaders think that they will get votes of all
Muslims by visiting house of families of terrorists, they were
"utterly irresponsible".
Prasad noted that the government had given Ashok Chakra gallantry
medal to Delhi Police Inspector Mohan Chand Sharma, who was killed in
Batla House gun battle, and now Digvijay Singh was questioning the
incident.
"We want to ask the prime minister, the home minister and Congress
president Sonia Gandhi to explain this position," he said.
Singh visited Sanjarpur town of Uttar Pradesh's Azamgarh district
Wednesday to meet the family members of the two alleged IM operatives
Atif and Chhota Sajid, killed during the September 2008 Batla House
shoot-out.
While Singh met Sajid's family, members of Atif's family refused to
meet him, saying they would meet Singh or Congress leaders only after
their demand to carry out a judicial enquiry into the shoot-out was
met.
Though Singh did not assure them of a judicial inquiry into the
incident, he said he would try his best to get an inquiry by the
National Investigating Agency (NIA).
Prasad said innocent people were killed in terrorist attacks in Uttar
Pradesh and Mumbai, but Congress leaders had not visited their homes.
"I want to ask how many families of those innocent people were visited
by them. What message are they giving?" he added.
Comments
Why BJP have no guts to call Congress a terrorist organization? A
person or party who supports jihadis are nothing but terrorirts.
Congress party is the mother of all terror. It created and supported
Khalistani, ULFA, LTTE.SIMI and number goes endless. BJP should come
out aggressively and expose the terror Congress organization. Else do
not bark, no body cares barking. We want to see action from BJP.
By Bharat Kumar
2/4/2010 6:49:00 PM
Parivar splits on Mumbai issue; BJP backs RSS
IANS
First Published : 01 Feb 2010 04:19:18 PM IST
Last Updated : 01 Feb 2010 06:30:12 PM IST
NEW DELHI / MUMBAI: Mumbai for Marathis, or for all Indians? The
question drove a deeper wedge in the Sangh Parivar Monday with the BJP
backing mentor RSS in saying that nothing should not dilute basic
"Indianness" and the Shiv Sena zealously guarding its turf to say that
the Mumbai was indeed only for Marathis.
Hoping to maximise on the rift, the Congress was not quiet either.
Party spokesperson Abhishek Manu Singhvi said the Bharatiya Janata
Party should stand by its words and break off its alliance with the
Shiv Sena.
"This hypocrisy is an insult to the intelligence of the people of
India. Shiv Sena and BJP have close relations for more than 15 years,"
he said.
And Home Minister P. Chidambaram projected the government's view when
he slammed the Shiv Sena for its exclusionary 'Mumbai for Marathis'
stand and said such a "pernicious" thesis had to be rejected. The city
belonged to all of India, he said.
While the Congress and the central government's stringent condemnation
was nothing new, the Shiv Sena found itself isolated within the Sangh
Parivar, the loose conglomeration of Hindu rightwing groups mentored
by the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh.
In a categoric rejection of its ally's stand, BJP president Nitin
Gadkari said identities based on language, region or religion should
not dilute "Indianness".
"All citizens of India may be attached to a particular language,
region or religion. These identities have never diluted their
Indianness. The BJP will never accept the philosophy that there is a
conflict between the two," Gadkari said in a statement here.
He said the BJP had always recognised linguistic, regional and
religious identities as a reality, but the "strength of India's unity
in diversity is achieved when all these identities eventually converge
into a larger national identity of Indianness. There is and can never
be a conflict between these."
A day after RSS leader Ram Madhav's unusually candid remarks Sunday
when he asked RSS volunteers to try prevent the spread of anti-north
India and anti-Hindi feelings in Maharashtra, Gadkari was also backed
by other BJP colleagues like Murli Manohar Joshi.
The former BJP president said the Mumbai for Marathis stand was
unconstitutional. Lashing out at the Shiv Sena, Joshi said: "This is
divisive and the worst example of vote bank politics. No sensible
person will ever support such a statement."
Stung by the criticism of its anti-north Indians policy, Shiv Sena
executive president Uddhav Thackeray thundered in Mumbai that his
party did not need lessons from the RSS.
"We do not need lessons from the RSS, It will be in their interest not
to rake up the issue. Our stand on this is not new. Mumbai belongs to
Marathis," Thackeray told reporters.
He suggested that instead of criticising the Sena over its stand on
the influx of north Indians into Maharashtra, the RSS must focus on
the plight of north Indians in Assam or teach Hindi to south Indians.
"It should come clear whether it is the RSS' official position or the
personal view of Ram Madhav. Ram Madhav is not the sole voice of the
RSS," he said.
What Thackeray did not say was that Madhav's remarks followed RSS
chief Mohan Bhagwat's comments a day earlier that Indian citizens had
a right to stay and earn their livelihood anywhere in the country.
Mohan Bhagwat, who did not name the Shiv Sena or the breakaway
Maharashtra Navnirman Sena (MNS), both of which have indulged in
competitive politics on the issues of Marathi pride, said: "Language,
caste, sub-caste, groups, tribes can be different but all are sons of
India."
The latest controversy, raked up by the Maharashtra government's move
to give new taxi permits only to those who know how to read, write and
speak Marathi, shows no signs of abating. The rift could get wider
still, leaving the Shiv Sena and the BJP-RSS on either side.
Comments
Cry,cry my beloved hindus&my beloved country. You cry until Kingdom
Come....this is your fate, this is your destiny. True Hindustani. You
sit at home and mistrubate while the Muslims enjoy life with their
virgins in heaven. Also, you ask why no hindu or patriotic secular
Indian or political part not question the validity in high courts or
supreme court? Why don't you do yourself something insteat of just
sitting at home with you penis in one hand and balls in the other
hand.
By Dusty Jasad
2/2/2010 3:50:00 PM
AMBIKA PRASAD ROY == Muthubalan == Gopal Krishna
By Birbal
2/2/2010 1:41:00 PM
I WOULD RECOMMEND STUDYING THE COMMENTS MADE ON THIS PAGE BY GOPAL
KRISHNA AND MUTHUBALAN. HOW FAR SIGHTED THE THOUGHTS ARE. I AM SURE
THAT ONLY SUCH A STATESMANLY AND COMPREHENSIVE ATTACK ON THE PROBLEMS
OF HUGE POPULATIONS MOVING INTO ALREAD OVERCROWDED URBAN CENTRES IN
INDIA CANNOT BE SOLVED WITHOUT SUCH A COMPREHENSIVE APPROACH, WHICH IS
MOST URGENTLY NEEDED. AS THESE COMMENTATORS IT IS DOUBTFUL THAT OUR
DEMOCRATIC CONSTITUTION IN PRESENT FORM WILL BE OF NO USE FOR SUCH A
SOLUTION, UNLESS IT IS MODIFIED TO EXCLUDE CRIMINALS AND LOOTERS WHO
HAVE MISUSED POLITICS AND POLLS FOR THEIR PERSONAL AND FAMILY AGENDAS.
FIRST STEP IS TO CONFISCATE THEIR WEALTH AFTER MODIFICATION OF
CONSTITUTION.
By AMBIKA PRASAD ROY
2/2/2010 10:49:00 AM
2) BILL GATES' ADVICE IS MORE VALID TODAY SINCE POPULATION HAS BEEN
RISING EVER SINCE HE SAID IT, AND WE DID ABSOLUTEL NOTHING ON THE
LINES OF HIS SANE COUNSEL. Such is our moronlike insensitivity. Unless
we develop hardware manufacturing is developed manifold, in small,
medium and large scale sectors, there is no hope of India ever solving
problems of local people's demands for "rights" to jobs in "their"
areas or reducing to any reasonable etent the pressure for workers to
migrate seeking jobs in outside jobs for want of jobs in their own
state s. It is just well to remember that within 15/ 25 years, India
will have added another 50 crores to its population, given the present
fear of governments to impose strict family planning norms to control
birth especially among the poor. Imagine the horror of people in
millions demonstrating for jobs and making the scene intolerable for
one and all of us, and making our democracy even more ridiculous than
it is now. Unfortunately the Worl
By Gopal Krishna
2/2/2010 12:10:00 AM
Congress&Media are playing the role of wicked and cunning wolves which
want to see two goats fight and then when they are tired of
fighting,to eat both of them,Sena and RSS and VHP must realise all the
dirty games that congress crooks and jehadi and vatican agents play to
make hi8ndus fight and that has been the policy of crooked nehru
dynastu for the past 60 years.So far they have succeeded by making
minroity muslims and christians solid vote banks by showering them
with all sorts opf priovileges and gifts and by splitting hindu
majority into ma ny factions and making them fight to capture power in
centre and states and to mis-rule and loot trillions for so many
years. So BJP,RSS& VHP&Shive Sena and Hindus beware of all the dirty
games and tricks that crooked congres can play and they will have
support of mnay bribed and crooked media and TV channels&bribed
journalists too.SHAME,Hindus,Shame
By True Hindustani
2/2/2010 12:05:00 AM
Planning Commission's incompeence is not the only reason for the
uneven economic development of India. THE HARSHEST TRUTH IS THAT WE DO
NOT KNOW HOW TO MANAGE OUR DEMOCRACY TO DELIVER GOODS TO THE PEOPLE,
AND DO NOT KNOW HOW TO DESTROY CORRUPTION WHICH IS GROWING BY LEAPS
AND BOUNDS IN EVERYSPHERE, MAINLY POLITICAL AND ADMINISTRATIVE. The
elecions have been consistently an enormous farce. Even where
sometimes the polls were not rigged by EVMs, or cash for votes or
rowdyism of rival parties, the people chosen as representatives are
unfit, and selfish and can be bought for overturning existing
governments. As software giant's BILL GATES (now also a world
philanthropist) pointed out, India's pre-eminence in software is only
temporary and rivals to it in ts/w. are fast emerging from Asia and
Europe. He said that unlike China with comparable population, India
has to go a long way before developing srong hardware manufacturing
businesses to realise full potential. HIS ADVICE IS STILL VALID
By Gopal Krishna
2/1/2010 11:56:00 PM
As long as we remain loyal to the Indian Constitution, we cannot ban
anyone seeking jobs or trying to set up business on grounds of
language (mother tongue), or religion, or other discriminatory
factors. Bring Chennai, Hyderabad, Pune, Mumbai, Ahmedabad, Bengaluru
under CENTRAL ADMINISTRATION. But nor can we object too much to local
(Sthaaneeya) people's rights if they have qual or better eligibility
for jobs/ businesses. Develop the smaller cities so that the migration
of unemployed labour from states like Bihar, Madhya Pradesh, even
Andha Pradesh, Rajasthan and UP will be able to move to THOSE
DEVELOPED smaller cities for jobs. SIMULTANEOUSLY, MOST SENSIBLE THING
TO DO IS TO PUT U.P., BIHAR, MADHYA PRADESH AND RAJASTHAN UNDER
PRESIEDENTIAL RULE FOR 25 YEARS/ UNTIL SATISFACTORY INDUSTRIAL,
AGRICULTURAL, HOUSING, INFRASTRUCTURAL DEVELOPMENT IS ACHIEVED WITH
MOST EXPEDITIOUS PLANS AND THEIR IMPLEMENTATION UNDER SPECIALLY
RECRUITED UNCORRUPT ADMINISTRATION. Scrap the Planning Commiss
By Muthubalan
2/1/2010 11:30:00 PM
Rome was not built in a day.Neither was Bombay. Left to themselves,
Marathis would n't have developed Bombay to the Metropolis that it
is.It took blood , sweat and tears of millions of immigrants, not to
speak of the iron will of the Imperial British State to transform the
sleepy fishing village donated as dowry from the Portugese. to the
Prince of Wales.That being the case, there's little substance in the
clamour for appropriating Bombay for Maharashtra.The right thing to
do- as has been done , to a great extent- is to develop satellite
townships apart from paying enough attention to the civic needs of
Bombay itself, without a thought of political gain.As long as Bombay
remains a part of India, people will come and go.There's no stopping
it. There are bigger and more populated towns in the world, one must
remember, and there's n't a Town Planning problem that is
insurmountable.
By Lutyens & Corbusier
2/1/2010 11:01:00 PM
Shiva Sena is a terrorist Organization that helped 26/11 attacks !!
They should be banned and the leader who is a MF put in chains and
whipped on the street!!
By SWAMIG
2/1/2010 10:44:00 PM
Who the F**K is Sena to decide Mumbai belongs to whom. MF**kes are
jobless and uneducated children of sluts.. Mumbai belongs to Indians.
Wait till I see a Marathi on my street, I will kick his ass if he
tells me Mumbai if for Maharashtrians.
By SWAMIG
2/1/2010 10:42:00 PM
MUMBAI PROBLEM- PROTESTS FOR OUTSIDERS: Much may be said on both sides
for arguments and even terrorits and supporters are living in Mumbai.
Actually Mumbai is fully crowded and difficult to have accomodation,
essential requirements of house, water etc for the people who are
living for ages. There is no scope for expansion as covered by sea. If
people from UP, BIhar and other places flood and occupy some epidemic
takes place putting people of Mumbai and others also to problem. My
question to our UP and Bihar polticians though they have better
facilities of land, water and many people why have they not
developed?.Because those politicians are selfish and encouraging
crimes and criminals they have not bothered to increase employment.
Hence politicians of UP and Bihar are to be punished for this state of
affairs. Besides people of Bihar and Up are labelled as criminals as
we find in Bangalore also. Perhaps this is also reason for Shivsena to
protest. B S GANESH BANGALORE
By B S GANESH BANGALORE
2/1/2010 9:36:00 PM
MUMBAI PROBLEM- PROTESTS FOR OUTSIDERS: Much may be said on both sides
for arguments and even terrorits and supporters are living in Mumbai.
Actually Mumbai is fully crowded and difficult to have accomodation,
essential requirements of house, water etc for the people who are
living for ages. There is no scope for expansion as covered by sea. If
people from UP, BIhar and other places flood and occupy some epidemic
takes place putting people of Mumbai and others also to problem. My
question to our UP and Bihar polticians though they have better
facilities of land, water and many people why have they not
developed?.Because those politicians are selfish and encouraging
crimes and criminals they have not bothered to increase employment.
Hence politicians of UP and Bihar are to be punished for this state of
affairs. Besides people of Bihar and Up are labelled as criminals as
we find in Bangalore also. Perhaps this is also reason for Shivsena to
protest. B S GANESH BANGALORE
By B S GANESH BANGALORE
2/1/2010 9:18:00 PM
What a super farcial democracy we have.No wonder we are a super banana
republic. Unless and until voting is made compulsory&non-voitng a
punishable crime excepting special circumstances& voting limited to
only adults with a minimum intermediate degree& ballot paper voting re-
introduced to prevent rigging of voting machines, India will continue
to be ruled by criminals&crooked politicians and continue to loot
trillions and deposit the loot in swiss bank.What a shame tha majority
of intelectuals and media are either sleeping or pretending to be
sleeping beiung bribed by ruling mafia&criminal cartels.The onlye
persons who have become rich and benefited rrom this farcial democracy
are minroity muslims&chrisstians made vote banks by crooked congress&
Crooked Nehru Dynasty&Agents.Majority hindus have been made
beggars.Cry,Cry majority hindus&cry,cry my beloved country.
By True Hindustani
2/1/2010 8:07:00 PM
We Tamils fully support MNS, Sena in that local jobs in Maha, Mumbai
go only for locals domiciled 15 years. And make local language Marathi
compulsory for locals. Ban use of Hindi on Radio/TV just like in
Tamilnadu, and protect Marathi language and culture. No Hindi
signboards allowed. Hey Karnataka is having 80% Jobs reserved for
locals. Why not in Maha? Hindi is not the National language. It is
Bull by North Indian, Hindi media. Let the corrupt BIMARUs develop
their states. Why should others suffer for these Job Stealers from
BIMARU? This is not RSS/BJP or Hindu issue.Mumbai has water for only
3-4 Million and there are 12 million. And 4000 UP/Biharis come every
week. Why should the locals put up with this nonsense? In Australia
they are fed up with Job-stealers from North India. Now UK has banned
Visa applications from Hindia. In USA, they are Deporting H1B Indians
at Port of Entry itself!
By Senthil
2/1/2010 7:26:00 PM
Siva Sena is a goonda organization and collected extortion money from
businesses over the years. These ba****stards have no brain or able to
prevent so many terrorist attack in Mumbai. It is time to ban Siva
Sena as it degrades the Hindu ethos by these foolish men who control
it. These stupid idiots helped the growth of Dawood Ibrahim in Mumbai.
The good ordinary Marathi manoos name is being drawn through the mud
because of these Siva Sena bas***tards. Siva Sena is a shameless
toothless brainless rats and it is time to make Mumbai like Delhi so
that these cancer called Siva Sena can be cleaned up
By n.krishna
2/1/2010 7:22:00 PM
Pan-India Hindu Organisations BJP , VHP and RSS have to tame regional
champs like Thackeray sooner or later. It is question of survival and
prestige for the former. VHP 's funded by the Marwadi/Gujarati
businessmen for whom Bombay is the lifeline.Rebellion against North
Indians in Bombay will spell doom for Sena. It is a different game
from what they had played agianst the hardworking , disciplined South
Indians.
By Samudraguptan
2/1/2010 5:45:00 PM
Glad to know that the paper tigers are beginning to wake up&NOT juts
just give brave speeches.Sena should have kicked out this SRK& ALL pro-
paki bollywood stars earlier itself. See how SRK sponsored the
exhibiton of jehadi painter MF Hussain in London spending hundreds of
crores for exhibiting the nude&vulagr paintings of hindu
gods&godesses&hurting religious sentiments of millions of hindus and
sikhs deeply.Why Shiv Sena,RSS,VHP &BJP did not even protest at that
time is a real mystery&shows the cowardly nature of hindus&hindu
outfits.Now if SRK&aamir,etc cotninue with this love for pakis&muslims
and continues treating hindus&sikhs as kafirs&promote their killing by
jehadis to get virgins&wine after death as told in Quran,
hindus&sikhs&buddhists MUST boycot all films of SRK,Aaamir, mahesh
Bhatt,etc&BOYCOT all products endorsed by SRK,etc in ads as well to
teachALL ungrateful creatures a lesson that they will NOT forget
By True Hindustani
2/1/2010 5:04:00 PM
WHY reservation for religious minrotities in a SECULAR country?Why NO
hindu or patriotic secualar indian or polticial party NOT questioning
its validity in high courts& supreme court? UN charter says that
NOcountry need to give reservation to minorities if they exceed 5
percent of populaion&in our couny of more than 85 crores moronic
majority hindus, though minority muslims&christians are more than 15
percent of population,they are given special benefits& reservations by
crooked congress&allies TO keep minorities as perpetual vote banks&to
split hindus. Why NO one or polticial party or citizen group including
RSS,VHP,BJP,Shiv Sena etc ARE still sleeping&NOTprotesting or
agitating against this gross injustice&aberration?Why RSS,BJP&Shiv
Sena allowed anti-national and anti-hindu bollywood Khans to be
superheroes&billionnaires by denigrating Hindus? Cry,cry my beloved
hindus&my beloved country
By True Hindustani
2/1/2010 5:03:00 PM
Mr Gadkari &BJP&RSS must do the maximum to unite all hindus and to
Make hindus First Class Citizens of the country and make minroty
muslims and christians thord class citizens using all sorts of methods
possible.Gadkari must make majority hindus solid vote banks and kick
out all congress crooks and farudulent allies who are splitting hindus
and making them fight all the time. BJP,RSS,VHP and all Hindus must
stop making speeches and must wake up now and start taking necessary
actions without any more delay to stop the hindu splitting
games.Ranganath Mishra like Rajesh Sacchar are biggest traitors of the
country&we are not short of traitors& jai chands& slaves.Can any one
tell me WHY reservation for religious minrotities in a SECULAR country?
Why NO hindu or patriotic secualar indian or polticial party NOT
questioning its validity in high courts& supreme court?
By True Hindustani
2/1/2010 5:00:00 PM
bademiyansubhanallah
Santwana Bhattacharya
First Published : 02 Feb 2010 02:25:00 AM IST
NEW DELHI: With the RSS-BJP coming out in support of the beleaguered
North Indian migrant community in Maharashtra by dissociating
themselves from the old Sangh ally, Shiv Sena’s stifling regionalism,
the Congress on Monday lampooned the former for what it called ‘copy-
cat politics.’ “The BJP is running with the hare and hunting with the
hound.
What is the point in imitating the Congress? We’re flattered that
they’re taking the Congress line on the migrants. But it is being done
to mislead the public and create confusion,’’ Congress spokesperson
Abhishek Manu Singhvi said.
Calling the RSS-BJP comments critical of narrow regionalism ‘an
eyewash,’ the Congress dared the BJP to break its decades-old ties
with its saffron-affiliate, the Shiv Sena. “In Maharashtra, they’ve
been co-habiting with the Shiv Sena and in Bihar they’re in power with
the JD(U). How are they managing this contradiction? We dare them to
break ties with one of then,’’ he said. The Congress seemed rather
upset that the BJP on the bidding of the RSS has taken on its ally
Sena head on, asserting that the party does not believe in any
regional identity that discriminates and differentiates.
“This is an example of hypocrisy and political opportunism. The BJP
and the Sena have been together for the last 15-17 years. The Sena has
repeatedly used filthy, derogatory and demeaning language against
migrants. Not once have we seen its negation by the BJP,’’ Singhvi
said.
Listing the Sena’s offensive on the northern Indian migrants since the
‘70s, the Congress said that the BJP has ‘always played along to enjoy
the fishes and loaves of power without any qualms.’
Comments
We live in a democratic nation & Indian constitution is above all.
every one has to abide its guideline & according to it one cannot
discriminate on the basis of religion, region, caste , creed, color.
What Shiv sena is upto then? they abuse people from Bihar, they don't
want to see people getting migrated from any other state specially
North Indian & now words on Shahrukh khan. We actually want to know
why the state government or the Union government not taking any action
against Bal Thackeray & his undemocratic Shiv sena. Who will now
provide security to Indian people ? What does democracy means? are we
going to see division again on region grounds?
By Shine_Delhi
2/3/2010 4:18:00 PM
NRI here... Left when we were kids. Jai hind! However, India is too
divided along state lines. We need to remove some power from the CM's
and state and bring more power to the Federal government like the US.
We all know New York and LA and Texas run the US economy, but they are
not granted any special privileges over the other states so why is
there so much power in UP, Maharashtra, Rajasthan etc... Also, we need
to consoloditate and create national companies. Let's have a united
railway system, a national police services with branches in each
state. Much like the FBI and RCMP have authority in all of Canada and
US. Let's have a national police service. Also, we have to remove
nepotism from our culture. The chinese view it as illegal to give your
title or jobs to close family members before all and actually choose
the leader best suited. Let's remove the people who only have power
because they are a "gandhi" or etc... Remove all of Indira's and
Nehru's family from power and
By NRI
2/3/2010 3:08:00 PM
Atleast BJP goes against Shiv Sena in some issues. But Congress to
stick in power was and is licking the feet of its allies.
By Ravindra
2/3/2010 11:47:00 AM
It is the terrorist Bofors chor Rajiv Gandhi who ordered the killing
of Sikhs. First the Congress should disown the Rajiv Gandhi family and
the present generation gang rapist Rahul Gandhi and expel 'Sonia and
her family from the congress party. Then talk about others
By n.krishna
2/2/2010 8:23:00 PM
There was little hope left in BJP as an alternative to Congress but in
Maharashtra matter they too have proved useless, principleless, and
worthless in coming out against the ongoing nonsense.
By vir
2/2/2010 8:17:00 PM
does congress dare to arrest bal thackeray??????????????
By bjp
2/2/2010 7:58:00 PM
common Marathi manoos does not endorse the views of Shiv Sena or MNS.
They too are scared of speaking freely like many others. They are
peace loving like anybody else. They want to do business peacefully.
It is the self proclaimed leaders of Maharashtrians who are creating
hatred, spreading separatism and making wealth for themselves out of
the chaos created by them.
By virendra
2/2/2010 7:49:00 PM
Well CONGRESS !! the Hand. we as the People should be blamed as we
only got them to power this has been happening since independence, the
CONGRESS party has roots from the BRITISH of DIVIDE and RULE the Have
MASTERED this, and using this against WE INDIANS they have no feelings
towards any Caste CREED etc. they Know One thing that is MONEY,Take
the example of AP amd nasty politics they have played elsewhere, ALL
THE Prices have SKY rocketed and it is Difficult for a Middle Class to
Survive also, Talking of STATS the Congress has got 28.55% of Votes
LAST election and Still their party has the Govenrment this is Enough
to state how the play the DIRTY politics of DIVIDE and Rule. And if we
start to discuss of these GOONS Shiv Sena and MNS (they have Tainted
and GOONS in their parties across INDIA) it won't end.
By Debashish
2/2/2010 7:42:00 PM
NO ONE CAN STOP SHIV SENA NOR MNS NOR CONGREES ,WITH WHAT THEY R
DOING ,OR WHAT THEY R GOING TO DO ,,WHAT INDIANS CAN DO IS JUST MAKE
STATEMENT ABT WHAT IS HAPPNENING AND START DOING CORRUPTION FROM VERY
NEXT DAY AS USUAL.......ATLAST IT IS OUR NATURE
By ALOK SINGH
2/2/2010 7:41:00 PM
Friends, today all these problems are due to continuously growing huge
population of our country. Is there any political party or leaders who
have courage to demand for a strict population policy? Why can`t we
insist the political parties – ruling or opposition to come out with
stringent Population Control Policy irrespective of whatever religion,
and implement the same for at least 15 years. Otherwise, we all should
be ready for a civil war in our own country. Instead of talking of
issues related to regionalism, language, states, these patriotic
political leaders must be united and force the ruling government to
implement a just one-child policy. Also, if the political leaders
(both-in Ruling and opposition parties) are really serious about the
safe and secured future of India, they must be united to check the
infiltration of millions of illegal people intruding into our country
from Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Myanmar, Burma and Nepal. Time
is running out to control these tw
By R. K. Sharma
2/2/2010 7:39:00 PM
Marathis&Indians, Know the FACTS First. The dark truth IS that
MNS&Raj , the monster was created by Crooked Congress to split Shiv
Sena& to split hindu votes. With help of MNS monster&Raj, Crooked
congress was able to win general elections of 2009 and to win the
state elections few months back.Raul Maino must not forget that mumbai
was under crooked congress rule when mumbai terror killings occured&
that they had a muslim police commissioner Hasan Gafoor at that time
too.As Dr swamy says Shiv Sena must work with RSS,VHP and BJP and talk
about hindus&sikhs&buddhists of hindustan and isolate& if possible
take care of fanatic muslims like SRK,aamir kahsn&mahesh bhatt &so
many others in Bollywood insteead of talking about marathis
only.Marathis were brave fighters who fought the dreaded moghuls, but
shiv sena HAS remained as paper tigers&HAVE allowed the jehadis&paki
agents to prosper in Mumbai.Shame, Shiv Sena,Shame
By True Hindustani
2/2/2010 7:28:00 PM
We all should support Raj Thackeray and take his initiative ahead by
doing more... 1. We should teach our kids that if he is second in
class, don't study harder.. just beat up the student coming first and
throw him out of the school 2. Parliament should have only Delhiites
as it is located in Delhi 3. Prime-minister, president and all other
leaders should only be from Delhi 4. No Hindi movie should be made in
Bombay . Only Marathi. 5. At every state border, buses, trains,
flights should be stopped and staff changed to local men 6. All
Maharashtrians working abroad or in other states should be sent back
as they are SNATCHING employment from Locals 7. Lord Shiv, Ganesha and
Parvati should not be worshiped in our state as they belong to north
( Himalayas ) 8. Visits to Taj Mahal should be restricted to people
from UP only 9. Relief for farmers in Maharashtra should not come from
centre because that is th
By Indian from Maharahtra
2/2/2010 7:22:00 PM
We all should support Raj Thackeray and take his initiative ahead by
doing more... 1. We should teach our kids that if he is second in
class, don't study harder.. just beat up the student coming first and
throw him out of the school 2. Parliament should have only Delhiites
as it is located in Delhi 3. Prime-minister, president and all other
leaders should only be from Delhi 4. No Hindi movie should be made in
Bombay . Only Marathi. 5. At every state border, buses, trains,
flights should be stopped and staff changed to local men 6. All
Maharashtrians working abroad or in other states should be sent back
as they are SNATCHING employment from Locals 7. Lord Shiv, Ganesha and
Parvati should not be worshiped in our state as they belong to north
( Himalayas ) 8. Visits to Taj Mahal should be restricted to people
from UP only 9. Relief for farmers in Maharashtra should not come from
centre because that is th
By Indian from Maharahtra
2/2/2010 7:18:00 PM
Immediate ban of parties like Shiv Sena, MNS, TRS to be imposed & the
political leadres should be declared as traitors of India . Regarding
Congress party , ignore Sonia Gandhi & chamchas of Indira Gandhi
family . Young generation in India should select candidates ( young&
new) to contest elections with a pledge that there will be no caste/
religion/region/language bias . Do not worry in near future , the
young generation in India will clean the filthy politics & build a new
India as visualised by Our ex - President Dr. Abdul Kalam . Long live
India. Jai Hind.
By KVR
2/2/2010 6:59:00 PM
The root cause of the regionalism & corruption are these regional
parties. These parties should be banned and start thinking for two
party system. Also the politicians should be accountable for their
deeds.
By George Kurian
2/2/2010 6:32:00 PM
Impose presidents rule and get people who provoke reginonalism and
divide and rule policy within the country to justice and put them
behind bars.Some ministers are concerned are goo to show concern about
the lives laid down by 150 people to develop Maharashtra.The question
is my dear frnd what about the lives LAID DOWN BY lakhs of people for
GETTING freedom for INDIA.
By Nachiket
2/2/2010 6:32:00 PM
congress is the most corrupt party of this country and main agenda of
this party is to divide and rule , hypocrite party , loser in all
sense as they lost most of the kashmir to the china and pakistan so
think what they r doing in india as today without any elected member a
pm was sitting and sonia and rahul enjoys luxry life and some ass
likers follow them dont know when we believe in BJP that party always
develop our country as i have seen from my childhood every state being
flourished becoz of BJP led government or by coliation examples r
Bihar, madhya-pradesh , uttarkhand and lots more or in place of
congress see we face lots of trouble i know 22% vote cant decide
central government but our sencerity can change in mahrastra shiv sena
is doing for their pride they fight for this country 86004
By vivek
2/2/2010 6:21:00 PM
All is not well in India,It requires to bring new system in India.
Remove all parties from India
By Hindu
2/2/2010 6:21:00 PM
Do Cong dare to curb SS & MNS goons . Cong is the most communal party
in india which always want to gain advantage of such incident. Instead
of asking BJP to break ties with Sena they should try to tie up with
common people of india.
By ravi
2/2/2010 6:11:00 PM
Govt. Should Ban Sena from the political Party, Though it is not a
political party its a Gunda Party, these party should be demolish
before it create much hevoc in india. repeteadly threatning the people
and saying against the constitution of inda. Thay should be hanged
By Brahm
2/2/2010 6:09:00 PM
It was the greatest mistake committed by Jawaharilal Nehru of creating
states on the ground of languages. India should be one state and
should be administered on District level. Powers of states and local
panchayats should be vested with the District administration. District
head from Civil Service should have powers vested with the Governor
and elected body which is equivalent to legislature and ministers. No
elected representative should be provided with accommodation in the
District headquarters. They should be staying at their own places. The
central Ministry as it is. This will save crores or precious money and
development will be fast. Political labours who are spoiling this
country will be reduced to minimum. Nair Surat
By Rajendran Nair
2/2/2010 6:08:00 PM
every politicAL PARTY is only busy in giving statements to appease
their vote banks but no ground work is being done to prevent such
regionalism politics.congress is trying to make the best out of this
situation .rather than stopping goons of shiv sena and mns it is
trying to play vote politics in bihar by showing bjp sena links.since
it is in power in maharashtra it must take all necessary steps and put
the hitlers behind the bars.
By kumar somnath
2/2/2010 6:01:00 PM
Cong should first break it's ties with MNS , as a bihari I can see the
intention of cong is bihar election, I hope this disgusting party
(cong) which destroyed bihar never comes back to power in bihar or
make room for RJD. Also chavan Is no differnt from RAj, a few weeks
ago he was also talking about jobs for only marathi people.I think BJP
should break it's ties with Shiva sena, which has no future, as udhav
is a fool.
By Aj
2/2/2010 5:51:00 PM
Congress is the main culprate to divide the people & make them fight ,
from last from 50 yrs they are in government they would have devoloped
north India like UP,Bihar,MP congress is devloping themself & their
pockets.Instead of talking all the politcians do some work in your own
hometown so their is no need for people to move from Bihar & UP to
Maharashtra. Rahul Gandhi knows the only place of north India were he
visi's regularly.
By Vishal
2/2/2010 5:40:00 PM
because of shive sena today all the industries are in gujrat they had
spoile the image of mumbai and they are talking about marathi manoos
if they r thinking about mumbaikar they must bring all the industries
back in mumbai.
By iqbal
2/2/2010 5:34:00 PM
Media should elevate the necessary things and should avoid the trivial
items happened every day. It is happening the other way around with
media as they are hyping to highest level and watching the fun
happening with Indian politics. Law should strictly enforce media not
to entertain such things. Why not some terrorist kill Shiv Sena chief
Bal Thackrey as he is exceeding limits day by day by considering
Marathis as the living legends or gods. He should remember that they
are Indians first and then native to their state. Foolish Thackrey.
By Mahendra
2/2/2010 5:32:00 PM
comeon guys ,with congress I at least see a ray of hope....i dnt agree
with bjp's core ideology i.e hindutva...to be honest how many of
us,the young generation of india,care about that temple bulding in
ayodhya or the ram setu issue....i m a hindu and a student of history
as well... i know my ramayan and mahabharat much better than many of
those sitting in the party offices..in none of the vedas the word
hindu is mentioned,the sarva santu santu niramaya quote talks about
the betterment of all.being a hindu doesnt assure u a seat in iit or
iim or upsc or any of our prestigious universities..i have my
classmates from mumbai who are point blank against these
thackerays...cities like mumbai and delhi belong to each one of us.
By shruti
2/2/2010 5:31:00 PM
Congress could manage to complete the period 2004 to 2009 ONLY with
the help of COMMUNIST PARTIES... (Let's leave the last scene with SP
in the drama). 1. Was Congress having same principles (if something
exists) with COMMUNIST? 2. Can Congress promise that they will NEVER
tie up with communist again?
By Kumaran
2/2/2010 5:27:00 PM
Everyone (Polititian) is opportunistic parasite who is eating this
country within. Responsible media should not make hype the things by
giving enormous importance to irrelevent things. Media is aggrevating
the storm day by day. Media is biased at times poking to single side
as maximum news are against particular parties (Persons).
By Marathi Manoos
2/2/2010 5:24:00 PM
All this is a political game. No one takes interest such kind of
things. The main agenda of common men is food price hike. They want
the solution of such issue.
By Sandeep kumar
2/2/2010 5:19:00 PM
In state and center,both places congress governmaent is there, then
why 100 % blame should go to them for coming to this situation. Raj
Thakre has started this almost 01 year and 06 months back. If action
has been taken at that time only then situation doesn't come like it
is today now. Means today now shivsena and even congress also started
this (marathi and north-indian issue) just for politics.
By Rahul Srivastava
2/2/2010 5:16:00 PM
and does congress have the courage to cut ties with Muslim
League??!!
By Ravishankar
2/2/2010 5:08:00 PM
Well said NISHIT. MNS is nothing but the creation of Congress to
divide the Shiv-Sena votes. Since they (Congress) are from the time of
English rule, they believe in Divide-And-Rule. They did it well and
smoothly won elections. The same they are doing in each state and
trying to take power eerywhere.
By Akhilesh
2/2/2010 5:04:00 PM
i hate mns and shiv sena ,they should be banned forever and they
should be under life imprisonment. why dont govt. take any action
action against these parties?? they are spolilng the nation from
within!
By rohit
2/2/2010 5:02:00 PM
Question for Rahul.. Would you file for Divorce if you wont like your
wife's thought? Congress is the best example of 'Jativaad' (Casteism).
They only know the vote-bank politics. Congress ruled for 50 years
now.. and you see where the "motherland" is. See Gujarat, BJP is the
party with Principles, where they dont trust in 'Gharana' (Family) Why
do you think Rajiv Gandhi was PM (Just because he was son of Indira
Gandhi?) Why do you think Sonia Gandhi will only be the Suprimo of
Congress (Just because she was wife of Rajiv Gandhi?) Why do you think
Rahul Gandhi will comment on behalf of Congress (Just because he is
son of Sonia Gandhi?) Dont you guys think in the country of more than
a hundred billion people, there would be one who is better than
these ? Why not thre is a pre-requisite for being a politician, that
he/she must have served the country (Army/Navy/AirForce) for atleast
some significant number of years ? (Afterall, politician is the one
who is going to govern
By Indian
2/2/2010 4:59:00 PM
It is high time that the BJP breaks ties with the Shiv Sena and also
it is high time that the Congress stops encouraging the MNS which is
its own creation for the purpose of dividing the votes in Maharashtra.
No wonder they won the elections smoothly in 2009.
By Nishit Desai
2/2/2010 4:55:00 PM
Parties like MNS and Shivsena never think of common man.They are only
concerned about the power and money,which they will and they have but
the common man still remains where he was These parties were nowhere
till they raised the marathi manoos mudda.Now they have everything,
the money the power but the common marathi manoos who they claim are
fighting for is where? nowhere.
By common man
2/2/2010 4:52:00 PM
When will these parasites such as Bal Thakeray, Raj Thakeray etc be
ever finished from this motherland??? Even the Britishers were better,
these guys are on the lookout for quick money through sheer muscle
power. I also dont understand if Rahul can talk so much why cant he
send the forces to arrest and put these goondas behind bars, there
rightful residence well earned by them??
By B Shankar
2/2/2010 4:39:00 PM
Congress and most of other political parties are like cancer. They out
grow other like cancer by eating the resources of country and spoil
the system.
By Nikhil
2/2/2010 4:31:00 PM
if u going tomoderate our comments ,how could people know the passion.
i am a marathi manoos and i hate mns and shiv sena ,they should be
banned forever and they should be under life imprisonment i miss
balgangadhar tilak and shivaji ,the marathi manoosreal would have cut
off the heads of all this sic thakereyrss and their goons
By mumbaikarhatesMNSSHIVSENAMARATHI MANOOS
2/2/2010 4:30:00 PM
BJP plans training of cadre
Rakesh Mohan Chaturvedi
First Published : 31 Jan 2010 01:26:49 PM IST
NEW DELHI: The BJP has made plans for a three-year programme to hone
the skills of its cadre before the next Lok Sabha elections.
"A policy decision on the issue will be taken after due deliberation.
Nothing is final yet. But BJP is the only party which has a training
cell and has been giving training to its cadre, including ministers,"
Vinay Sahasrabuddhe, BJP President Nitin Gadkari's political advisor,
told PTI.
After its three-year training programme organised in Maharashtra on a
pilot basis, BJP now plans to put the same into practice at an all-
India level.
"In Maharashtra, 17 selected BJP leaders from the state were trained
from 2007 to 2009 on an experimental basis at Rambhau Mhalgi
Probodhini. If everybody agrees, this programme can be
institutionalised," Sahasrabuddhe said.
Under Gadkari, an RSS-appointee, BJP wants to train its leaders - a
practice more common in the Sangh Parivar fountain-head, on
ideological aspects, policy issues and skill development.
"The training will aim at creating ideological clarity and
understanding, providing information on policy matters and social
issues, introduction to policies of other political parties and
practical aspects like public speaking, publicity and honing of other
skills," Sahasrabuddhe said.
Governor Bharadwaj is Congress agent: BJP
Express News Service
First Published : 05 Feb 2010 03:27:31 AM IST
Last Updated : 05 Feb 2010 09:06:00 AM IST
BANGALORE: Enraged by Governor HR Bharadwaj’s decision to reject
former minister V Somanna’s nomination to the Upper House, the state
BJP on Thursday accused the former of lowering the dignity of his
office by indulging in petty politics.
During his maiden press conference after he took over the reins of the
state BJP, KS Eshwarappa waged a scathing attack on Bharadwaj and
asked him (Bharadwaj) to resign from the post and join politics.
“I have been watching him (Bharadwaj) from the day he took over as the
Governor of the state. He has been acting as the Opposition leader by
not letting go any opportunity to criticise the government. He might
be thinking that it is his duty to repay the Congress. But let me
remind him that it is not the Congress party, but the people of the
state that he has to repay,” Eshwarappa said. Condemning Eshwrappa for
criticising Governor Bharadwaj, KPCC president RV Deshpande accused
the former of politicising the issue instead of respecting the ‘right’
and ‘lawful’ decision of the Governor.
Comments
Jai Jai Yeddy. Down Down Reddys. What else can be expected from slaves
of Sonia. One flesh bag in Rashtrapathi bhavan another in Election
commisson and the list goes on...
By TamilSelvan
2/5/2010 10:54:00 AM
BJP opposing greater autonomy to J&K
Anita Saluja
First Published : 20 Jan 2010 02:56:00 AM IST
Last Updated : 21 Jan 2010 01:20:47 PM IST
NEW DELHI: Raising the pitch against the Congress- led UPA Government
move to grant greater autonomy to Jammu and Kashmir, BJP President
Nitin Gadkari declared that it would be opposed tooth and nail by his
party with all the strength at its command.
Gadkari said that patriotic pressure would be mounted against the
government, if it tries to persist with its move, buckling under the
pressure of votebank politics. Gadkari charged the Congress with
creating the problem of Jammu and Kashmir and blamed the ruling party
for mishandling the issue.
Recalling that Bharatiya Jan Sangh founder Shyama Prasad Mookherjee
had sacrificed his life for the cause of full integration of Jammu and
Kashmir with India, Gadkari said,”I pay my homage to him and declare
that his sacrifice will not go in vain”. Former Jammu and Kashmir
Governor Jagmohan rubbished the false propaganda that he was
responsible for the forced exodus of the Kashmiri Pandits from the
valley. Jagmohan said that he was called by the government to take
charge of the assignment at a time when the state was already burning.
Jagmohan also opposed the talk of autonomy for Jammu and Kashmir.
Addressing a function to mark the 20th anniversary of the exodus of
Jammu and Kashmir that commenced on January 19, 1990, organised by the
Shyama Prasad Mookherjee Foundation and attended by top Sangh leaders,
BJP president Ntiin Gadkari said that the BJP national council meeting
in February would draw up a detailed blueprint on the plan of action
to create awareness by taking the issue to the nook and corner of the
country and even agitate, in order to halt the government in its
tracks from going ahead with the moves to grant autonomy to Jammu and
Kashmir.
“The BJP will raise its voice and oppose the government with all the
strength at its command,” he said.
Gadkari said that the BJP will demonstrate its strength in Parliament
and warned that this ill-advised move to grant autonomy to Jammu and
Kashmir could trigger a chain reaction from other states like Assam.
“The question that arises is whether the leaders should lead the
people or be led by the people,” he said.
Comments
AUTONOMY will be like giving a KNIFE to a person with intention of
murdering- best option is TRIFURCATION and isolation of Kashmir from
Jammu and ladakh, then we can target the Terrorists of nation easily,
if any terrorists in JAMMU and LADAKH will be kicked out by majority
people.
By Lohit
1/20/2010 10:36:00 PM
The Indian census is rigged. Currently dharmic religions(Hindus+sikhs
+jains+buddist) stand at 62%, Islam stands at 32%, Christians stand at
6% It just a question of time before the dharmic religions become a
minority in India. Dharma Veera
By Dharma Veera
1/20/2010 9:11:00 PM
The enemy is within India. As long we don't thoroughly understand the
enemy there is no way we can defeat the enemy. -Ganesh
By Ganesh
1/20/2010 9:00:00 PM
It is time BJP takes back Kalyan Singh since he has done so much for
the party.Now that Kalyan Singh has expressed regret, BJP must get
Kayan Singh as well as Uma Bharati back to party &NOT allow the
enemies of hindus to shout that both Kalyan Singh& Uma Baharati are
not taken back since they are not high caste hindus.BJP must NOT
commit the old mistakes again&must UNITE all factions of hindus&must
FIGHTunitedly for ALL hindus&particularly for sc,st&backward
hindus&poor hindus of forward castes.BJP,RSS and VHP must campaign to
make hindustan a hindu rashtra &shout that hindus will have priority
in every thing including education,housing,jobs,etc,etc and that
minorities will be considered for above only after hindus are given
first priority. if BJP,RSS & VHP do NOT come out with strong hindu-
oriented progarmmes&policiesBJP& Hindu parties will have NO future in
India at all.
By True Hindustani
1/20/2010 7:40:00 PM
It is time BJP takes back Kalyan Singh since he has done so much for
the party.Now that Kalyan Singh has expressed regret, BJP must get
Kayan Singh as well as Uma Bharati back to party &NOT allow the
enemies of hindus to shout that both Kalyan Singh& Uma Baharati are
not taken back since they are not high caste hindus.BJP must NOT
commit the old mistakes again&must UNITE all factions of hindus&must
FIGHTunitedly for ALL hindus&particularly for sc,st&backward
hindus&poor hindus of forward castes.BJP,RSS and VHP must campaing to
make hindustan a hindu rashtra &shout that hindus will have priority
in every thing including education,housing,jobs,etc,etc and that
minorities will be considered for above only after hindus are given
first priority. if BJP,RSS & VHP do NOT come out with strong hindu-
oriented progarmmes&policiesBJP& Hindu parties will have NO future in
India at all.
By True Hindustani
1/20/2010 7:36:00 PM
Ranganath Mishra like Rajesh Sacchar are biggest traitors of the
country&we are not short of traitors& jai chands& slaves.Can any one
tell me WHY reservation for religious minrotities in a SECULAR country?
Why NO hindu or patriotic secualar indian or polticial party NOT
questioning its validity in high courts& supreme court? UN charter
says that NOcountry need to give reservation to minorities if they
exceed 5 percent of populaion&in our couny of more than 85 crores
moronic majority hindus, though minority muslims&christians are more
than 15 percent of population,they are given special benefits&
reservations by crooked congress&allies TO keep minorities as
perpetual vote banks&to split hindus. Why NO one or polticial party or
citizen group including RSS,VHP,BJP,Shiv Sena etc ARE still
sleeping&NOTprotesting or agitating against this gross
injustice&aberration?Cry,cry my beloved hindus&my beloved country
By True Hindustani
1/20/2010 7:35:00 PM
At least Gadkariji shows he is not sleeping unlike Rajnath Singh and
Advani and other BJP_ leaders who were sleeping for past 10 years. It
is time Gadkariji takes up aggressive pro-hindu policy and declare
that 26 th November will be remembered and called a black Hindu
Genocide day in memory of lakhs of hindus and sikhs and buddhists
killed by terror by jehadi muslims and christian fanatics over the
past many decades.Mr Gadkari &BJP&RSS must do the maximum to unite all
hindus and to Make hindus First Class Citizens of the country and make
minroty muslims and christians thord class citizens using all sorts of
methods possible.Gadkari must make majority hindus solid vote banks
and kick out all congress crooks and farudulent allies who are
splitting hindus and making them fight all the time. BJP,RSS,VHP and
all Hindus must stop making speeches and must wake up now and start
taking necessary actions without any more delay to stop the hindu
splitting games
By True Hindustani
1/20/2010 7:34:00 PM
Gadkari should speak to ABV, LKD, 2 singhs about J&K situation, before
shooting his mouth off in front of the juddis. If Musharaf was honest,
greater autonomy for J&K would have been closed by ABV long long ago &
Gadkari and juddis would have been liking their, funny patriotismic
wounds. By the way Gadkari should stop taking dictation from juddis on
India's core issues and heed the rule of ABV , LKD and other BJP
parliamentarians, who know better then Gadkari and juddi wallas.
By Amoghavarsha
1/20/2010 3:55:00 PM
Greater autonomy, self rule or any such move is actually furthering
the cause of the separatists and terrorists. All these ideas are with
the intention of dilution of Indian sovereignty and integrity of the
country. time and again the separatist supporters including Muftis and
others are clearly wanting Balkanization of India. jammu and Kashmir
does not mean the valley only but jammu and ladakh too. Why is the
Government not accepting the long term demand of the ladakhis towards
a union territory first and foremost.
By arvind
1/20/2010 3:33:00 PM
Greater autonomy should be fine, after all it is not asolute autonomy
There are always areas which are there, but not definitely identified,
in which there is so much inefficiency and delay since a state has to
look to the Centre for "orders". As such with more areas for
independent responsibilities and hence their epeditious discharge, in
AREAS TO BE CARFULLY IDENTIFIED, BY THE CENTRE, J&K government can be
made more result-oriented in its governance. How much autonomy and
where, well, there can be debate. but this is worth doing.
By Krishen Sharma
1/20/2010 11:37:00 AM
Govt bowing to separatists: BJP
Anita Saluja
First Published : 28 Jan 2010 02:40:00 AM IST
NEW DELHI: The BJP on Wednesday slammed the Government for its failure
to hoist the Tricolour at Lal Chowk in Srinagar on Republic Day.
The BJP charged that the Government had capitulated to the
separatists, the reason why it was a serious issue and an affront to
the patriotic sentiments of the people.
BJP spokesman Prakash Javadekar said the practice was discontinued
this year, apparently because it was considered an unnecessary
provocation.
He asked why the Government should change its plans when there was no
apparent change in the separatists’ stance.
“The Government’s decision is demoralising for the security forces and
the people at large. It should be seen in the backdrop of the practice
of the Hurriyat observing bandh on Republic Day every year,” he said.
“It is pertinent to note that last year Kashmiri people participated
in large numbers in the flag-hoisting ceremony at Lal Chowk. The
Government should have encouraged such participation, instead it chose
to cancel the ceremony,” he said.
It was in 1991 the then BJP president Murli Manohar Joshi led the Ekta
Yatra from Kanyakumari to Jammu & Kashmir and hoisted the Tricolour at
Lal Chowk in Srinagar, at the height of militancy.
“The move raised the morale of the security forces and ever since, the
CRPF and the BSF have been continuing the practice. For the first time
in 19 years, this practice was given a miss,” he said.
Since the Congress has propped up the National Conference-led
Government of Omar Abdullah in Jammu & Kashmir and the UPA Government
at the Centre, it owes an explanation, he said.
bademiyansubhanallah
Campal parade ground on Wenesday
Photo byRozario Estibeiro
"The comments feature has been suspended until further notice because
of the posting of abusive and objectionable comments. "
Suspense over SRK’s film
PTI
Chavan guarantees security
MUMBAI, FEB 11
The release of Shah Rukh Khan starrer My Name Is Khan in Mumbai
theatres tomorrow was clouded in uncertainty amid reluctance by some
multiplexes even as Chief Minister Ashok Chavan today guaranteed
security to counter Shiv Sena threats to disrupt the film.
As the tense stand-off between Shah Rukh and the Shiv Sena cast its
shadow on ‘MNIK’, the high profile Director of the film Karan Johar
insisted it will be released as scheduled in Mumbai and elsewhere.
“Release of MNIK not postponed in Mumbai. Please don’t believe
rumours”, Johar tweeted.
Half the 63 theatres due to screen the film are in glitzy malls and
multiplexes.
COO Fun Cinemas Vishal Kapoor said the situation was not conducive for
the screening of the film, even as 300 more Shiv Sena activists were
rounded up. Kapoor indicated the film will not be screened in his
halls till the matter is resolved.
http://www.oheraldo.in/news/Main%20Page%20News/Suspense-over-SRK-rsquo-s-film/33443.html
Edit February 2010
We are our own worst enemy
What is it about certain North Indians, especially Punjabis, which
compels them to want to emigrate by any means possible? A few days
ago, Britain suspended issuing student visas in north India,
suspecting large scale irregularities. The number of applications for
student visas increased more than six times from the same period last
year. Coupled with this were open advertisements in newspapers in
Delhi and Punjab, offering emigration through ‘court marriages’.
It appears that in many cases of those who go abroad to do vocational
courses, their real intention is not to study but to illegally
emigrate to that country. Those who succeed in getting a student visa
based on their acceptance by a foreign educational institution, then
recover their costs through a ‘court marriage’ – a fake marriage in
which an alliance is entered into only on paper, and no religious
ceremony is held.
Once the ‘couple’ succeeds in getting entry to Britain (or Australia),
the two go their separate ways. And, after a year or so, they file
papers for a ‘court divorce’. It is this kind of consistent abuse of
the system that has led the British government to repeatedly crack
down, making student visas harder and harder to get. This makes it
much harder for genuine students to go to Britain for higher
education.
Indians settled in Australia say that the roots of many of the so-
called ‘racist’ attacks on Indian students in Melbourne lie in this
very phenomenon; abuse of student visas to settle down in Australia.
Most of the attacks have been on North Indians, who form the
overwhelming majority of the Indian student population in that city.
These students are mostly enrolled for vocational courses, often run
by dubious institutes.
Britain’s tough new student visa regulations halve the amount of time
a student studying below degree level or foundation degree courses is
able to work, to just 10 hours a week during term time. This will make
it harder for bogus students whose only aim is to work in the UK, but
it will also make it impossible for genuine students from not-so-well-
off backgrounds to part-finance their education by working outside
class hours. For many Goan girls enrolled in beauticians’ courses in
the UK, for example, it will just make life that much harder.
The other measures – a good standard of English; restricting lower-
level courses to only the most trusted institutions; a ban on bringing
in dependants for anyone studying a course for less than six months
and a ban on the dependants of anyone studying a course lower than
foundation or undergraduate degree level from working – may prove
inconvenient, but will not affect genuine students so badly.
Before long, Australia, too, will come out with a package of measures
to prevent abuse of student visas. This may or may not end the abuse
of the system, but it is sure to make things more difficult for the
genuine students. So, before we move to condemn the Aussies for
racism, let us reflect a while on the conduct of our own countrymen
who are students in that country. All too often, Indians are their own
worst enemies.
Bouquets & brickbats
Recently, the Goa Police moved quickly to catch the perpetrators in
two major cases. The molesters of a nine-year-old Russian girl were
found and caught within days, while the professional ‘supari’ killers
who tried to murder an Old Goa restauranter and panch were picked up
in record time. Obviously, the force has the ability to catch
culprits. But what happens later?
The high-profile prostitution racket in Fatorda, ‘busted’ last August,
has ended in the clear discharge of all 11 accused. The judge has
commented that there appears “no material absolutely on record” to
frame charges against the accused. Clearly, much work remains to be
done in the legal arena to ensure that arrests ultimately result in
convictions.
http://www.oheraldo.in/newscategory/Edit/15
February 2010
That Exasperating Identity Conundrum
In the first instalment of his new fortnightly column, DR OSCAR
REBELLO takes a look at recent events and issues in Goa
As the Mumbai ‘Insider v/s Outsider’ debate fiercely rages on in our
favourite metropolis, I tried to do a rethink and take another look at
this massive dilemma which our country faces and will continue to face
in the foreseeable future: namely, “How does one marry and reconcile
regional aspirations (aka ‘identity’) with the larger national
context?” But first of all, I must confess my personal convictions.
1. For me, the Constitution of our Republic is sacrosanct. This
Constitution unambiguously states that every Indian has a right to
earn his living and settle in any part of the country. So Biharis can
move to Delhi, Delhiwallahs can go to Hyderabad and, indeed, Goans can
and do go to Mumbai to seek jobs. In this way our melting pot of
cultures gets stirred thicker and better.
2. Illegal immigrants from other countries must be packed off as
humanely as possible back to their own lands. Thus, in case you are
Bangladeshi or Sri Lankan, British or Russian, and if you are here
illegally, it is time for you guys to kiss this place goodbye. There
just isn’t sufficient room for everyone here.
The logical argument that then follows from these above-mentioned two
schizophrenic convictions relates to the problems that we would face
in such a context. If there just isn’t any further room for everyone
out here, how is it that a small state like Goa accommodate thousands
of new immigrants from the rest of the country without being
obliterated. How can a city like Mumbai cope with millions of new
entrants despite crumbling infrastructure and depleting resources?
Notwithstanding our liberal positioning, we cannot sweep aside this
genuine concern under the carpet and dismiss it contemptuously as some
parochial, regional chauvinism. But there is much more to it than
meets the eye.
The primary reason why people migrate from poor states and districts
to thriving metropolises and well-off states like Goa is fundamentally
to make a better life for themselves and give a better shot at life
for their kids. They are not interested in invading or colonising any
part of India. Period! (The brash rich brigade, though, that seeks
holiday homes is another cup of tea that needs to be fought
relentlessly. Also, it important to ensure that illegal squatters on
government land are evicted.)
Hence, the solution to prevent this mass exodus from the oppressive
poverty of rural Bharat to ‘shining’ India must necessarily be an
economic one and not some malicious and mindless migrant-bashing
exercise.
For what they’re worth, I would have the following suggestions to
make:
1. It is in the interest of ‘shining’ India to contribute and strive
hard to make rural Bharat more comfortable to live in. With all the
power and wealth at our disposal, we will need to invest and work hard
at building better roads, hospitals, schools and sanitation for our
less fortunate brethren in our villages. If these are available, why
would anyone leave the serene environs of a village with all modern
amenities and economic opportunities to squat in a slum in Mumbai?
2. One just cannot allow our rapacious and downright greedy barons to
mine and deforest tribal areas with nauseating impunity, all in the
name of economic growth, to feed the insatiable greed of ‘shining’
India (or, for that matter, ‘dazzling’ China). The displaced tribals
would then have no other option but to turn to Naxalism or swarm into
the cities.
3. All our natural resources must be managed sensibly and equitably to
feed our vast population. ‘Shining’ India may buy the latest BMWs, but
‘sighing’ India (both in urban slums and in the villages) cannot
afford basic dal chawal. This kind of inequity is a surefire recipe
for all-out internal war.
4. And, lastly, we’ll have to manage our burgeoning population by
somehow controlling its unbridled growth. For this massive national
mission, all religious heads must come to a consensus and guide their
respective flocks. (I know that I’ll face flak for this suggestion,
but the theory of “Go Forth and Multiply” – and willy-nilly pollute
the planet) is well and truly over.
Tough choices, no? But there you are! It is much easier to victimise
and thrash a Bihari or a Muslim. But it is in making tough choices for
our future that the true mettle of a country is put to the test. (Of
course, if Rahul Gandhi can train his guns on the fantastic levels of
corruption in our system and particularly in his party, rather than
just gun for trains, it will help us big time.)
The Defining Dean
In the week that went by, we lost the most charismatic of Deans that
the Goa Medical College has ever had in the person of Dr G J S
Abraham.Magnetic, witty and a disciplinarian with a twinkle in his
eye, he strode the Goa Medical College like a colossus .We were
terrified of him – so much so that we knew by heart all the maze-like
passages and entry and exit points in the old Goa Medical College (now
also lovingly called Inox), only so that we could dodge him and escape
in case we were late or sneaking out on a date.
His sense of humor was best exemplified when during one of his
brilliant post lunch lectures on the Autonomic Nervous System (ANS) he
caught a colleague of mine, Chhaya, taking her mandatory forty winks
on the front row.
He bellowed: “Chhaya, all through my pharmacological career, I always
thought ANS was an abbreviation for the Autonomic Nervous System.
Today, you’ve proven that it is also for anaesthesia. You’re out
cold!” Chhaya has never slept well after that.
They don’t make them like him any longer. I will surely miss him.
Chakra P”hew”
My faith in the essential character of the Goan was re-established
when the Canaconcars, in a united show of strength cutting across
religious and party lines, drove the rave party organisers
(masquerading as ‘Greens’) out of Goa. The pressure, united and
forceful, must have been immense on good old Digu Kaka. Otherwise, he
would have never taken such a forceful decision. Whatever else one may
say about him, Digambar Bab sure hates to make tough decisions!
Glorious Valentine’s Day
By Auriel Ribeiro Sa
February is a month heralding new hope for the world through its
expression of love on Valentine’s Day, which falls on February 14
every year and is widely celebrated by people of all ages.
One of the best things associated with this festival is the
celebration of love in all its varied forms, not just restricted to
romantic love. Hence, people celebrate this day by presenting
Valentine’s Day gifts to their parents, teachers, siblings, friends,
sweethearts or anyone special or close to them. Exchanging cards with
sentimental verses, flowers and gifts is the most common way of
expressing this love.
Curious to know more, I scanned the net to find out more about St
Valentine and Valentine’s Day and discovered several legends
associated with them.
One legend contends that Valentine was a priest who served during the
third century in Rome. When Emperor Claudius II decided that single
men made better soldiers than those with wives and families, he
outlawed marriage for young men. Valentine, realising the injustice of
the decree, defied Claudius and continued to secretly perform
marriages for young lovers. When Valentine’s actions were discovered,
Claudius ordered that he be put to death and he was beheaded on 14
February.
Another story suggests that Valentine must have been killed for
attempting to help Christians escape harsh Roman prisons, where they
were often beaten and tortured. It is believed that while in prison,
Valentine fell in love with the jailor’s daughter, who visited him
during his confinement. Before his death, it is alleged that he wrote
a letter to her, which he signed ‘From your Valentine’, an expression
still in use today.
While some believe that Valentine’s Day is celebrated in the middle of
February to commemorate the anniversary of Valentine’s death or
burial, others claim that the Christian church may have decided to
celebrate Valentine’s feast day in the middle of February in an effort
to ‘Christianise’ celebrations of the pagan Lupercalia festival which
began at the ides of February, on 15 February, and was a fertility
festival dedicated to Faunus, the Roman God of agriculture, as well as
to the founders of Rome, Romulus and Remus.
Later, during the Middle Ages, it was a common belief in France and
England that February 14 was the beginning of the birds’ mating
season, adding to the idea that the middle of February, Valentine’s
Day, should be a day for romance.
Some quaint customs emerged due to these legends. For example, in the
Middle Ages, young men and women drew names from a bowl in search of
their valentine and would then wear these names on their sleeves for
one week. To wear your heart on your sleeve now means that it is easy
for other people to know how you are feeling. In Wales, around the
seventeenth century, wooden love spoons were carved and given as gifts
on February 14. Hearts, keys and keyholes were favorite decorations on
the spoons, which meant ‘You unlock my heart!’
By the middle of the eighteenth century, it was common for friends and
lovers to exchange small tokens of affection or handwritten notes. By
the end of the century, printed cards began to replace written
letters.
Americans probably began exchanging hand-made valentines in the early
1700s. In the 1840s, Esther A Howland began to sell the first mass-
produced valentines in America. Known as the ‘mother of Valentine’,
she made elaborate creations with real lace, ribbons and colorful
pictures known as ‘scrap’.
For lovers, Valentine’s Day is that special day of magic to express
the desire of their hearts and accept with gladness the response they
look forward to.
During our years of courtship, I recall how avidly I would search for
the right card to give my beloved (now my husband) on Valentine’s Day,
conveying that deep longing to be in his arms, with the symbolic
artwork on the front to seal the promise that I would be his forever.
Even after we married, I would break my little head as early as
January to try and figure out what to do to set my husband aflame on D-
day.
One year, I decided to give him the triple thrill of his life. So when
the rooster was having his 40 winks, I awoke and cellotaped two paper
hearts on my hubby’s shaving mirror with the words “You fascinate
me”.
Knowing that his next move, after brushing those pearly whites, would
be to get the milk out of the fridge, I stuck another message on the
fridge door, which read ‘My heart beats for you.’ I hid the third in
the bowl used by him for kneading dough. What I wrote there was meant
for his eyes and ears only. Anyway, the end result was a glorious
Valentine’s Day.
May you all have a splendid Valentine Day this year as you plan and
execute to perfection that special moment of magic, bringing a sparkle
to the eyes of your beloved, be it your friend, parent or sweetheart.
And knowing me as well as you do by now, you can be sure my husband
will have a glorious one too!
http://www.oheraldo.in/newscategory/Opinions/14
February 2010
Rein in the corrupt
Caetano Jerome Goes, by email
Hats off to Vaman Tari for recently arresting an employee from the
office Registrar of Births and Deaths for demanding money from people
for different types of certificates. Such raids should have taken
place much earlier.
Such instances are noticed several times wherein the officials
complain that they are unable to trace the birth details immediately .
It is only when one agrees to pay some money to them that one gets the
certificate within no time. These employees are paid their salaries.
The Crime Branch should investigate into the finances of these
employees and the truth will come out.
Corruption is rampant in almost every department, which is affecting
everyone in the society, but the most affected are the poor people.
Probably the worst departments are the Town and Country Planning
Department and the Transport Department. The government should adopt
certain measures such as installation of CCTV in these departments,
and ensure transfer of employees every two years in order that they
are not able to build up their networks of corruption. Accepting
bribes has become a way of life.
If the government really cares for its voters, then it will act to
stop corruption at all levels in government departments.
Perverted secularism
S N D Poojary, Miramar
The recent survey conducted by the government as per the directive of
the Supreme Court of India shows that there are 830 illegal shrines in
the state of Goa alone. Doubtless, the number will be in thousands
when the all-India figures are made available.
Installing some religious symbols is a covert way of encroaching upon
government land. Our religious sentiments are so fickle that they
could be easily aroused if a religious symbol is removed from the
public place, even though there are established temples, churches and
mosques where the devotees can offer worship.
The governments in power, both at the centre and state, turn a blind
eye when the shrines suddenly some up on government land and this is
in tune with a perverted notion of secularism. The Supreme Court
should initiate some concrete to control the proliferation of the
roadside shrines. If the matter is left to the politicians alone, the
survey reports will end up in the dustbins.
Lack of law and order
Edgar Martins, Chinchinim
I need to inform all Goans, based on my experience as a Goan citizen
for the last 56 years, that the law and order scenario in Goa during
the Portuguese rule and MGP party rule under Dayanand Bandodkar was
very good, unlike today. Today all politicians want only money and
make the Goans dance to their tunes, least bothered about the law and
order situation.
Goans need to unite and elect reliable new faces and throw out the
corrupt. So also, they need to make an agreement with the new MLAs
prior to the elections regarding their duties for the next five years.
Put a check on noise
Norman da Silva, Navelim
I fully agree with the views expressed by Hubert Saldanha in his
letter ‘Noise about music’ (Herald, Feb10).
The MP Act and Noise Pollution Rules 2000 have been promulgated after
considering the harmful effects on human health and well-being of the
people. Amplified music should be stopped between 10pm and 6am, except
in soundproof premises. During permitted hours, the loud speakers used
should be directed at the audience and not away from them, and the
permitted strength of the amplifiers should be adequate to cover the
audience only.
The concerned authorities should see the area before permitting use of
amplifiers and such areas such as aged homes, should be declared as
‘Silence Zones’.
Clichéd nationalism
Willie Severes, Majorda
The old version of the classic song ‘Mile Sur Mera Tumhara’, which was
recently released as a new version ‘Phir Mile Sur’, featuring some
popular Bollywood celebrities of our time, and aired on television,
came as a great surprise to me.
It is depressing to note that a unique country like India, which has
ancient and diverse cultures, chose to express its spirit of unity in
the clichéd form of a Bollywood musical.
Abortion a criminal act
Adelmo Fernandes, Vasco
In what must be considered a landmark ruling, the Delhi High Court
held recently that an unborn child can be considered at par with a
minor child and directed an insurance company to pay compensation of
Rs2.5 lakh to a man who lost his pregnant wife in a road accident.
If this be so, what about Medical Termination of Pregnancy (MTP) or
abortion? Does this not amount to murder of a child?
Many abortions take place in private nursing homes, and many of them
are in actuality female foeticides.
Abortion should be resorted to only if the life of the mother is at
risk. Otherwise it should be considered as a crime, with the clinics
which carry out abortions being a party in abetting the crime.
Proud to be corrupt?
R Fernandes, Margao
In his speech at the MPT Republic Day function, MPT Chairman Agarwal
called on all to be proud to be Indian. But the major characteristic
of an Indian is his ‘corruption’. Central and state government
agencies and their employees collect bribes which are shared between
employees from top to the bottom. Even the armed forces are not
spared, what with a coffin scandal, land scam, etc. In this context,
who but the corrupt would be proud to be Indian?
It would have been more appropriate if the Chairman had advised us to
“be proud to be an honest Indian”.
The MPT is yet to take any action on GSPCB’s October directive to
erect closed sheds in order to contain coal dust pollution in Vasco.
So also, MPT has done nothing to contain beach erosion in its
jurisdiction (GPL on the east coast has earmarked Rs27 crore for the
same).
Dubious recognition
Peter Gracious, Caranzalem
With reference to the letter ‘Expensive concert’ by Savio Fernando Vas
(Herald, 9 Feb), I, being a lawyer myself, have been a close follower
of the PIL filed at the Panjim High Court. I am pretty sure the
concerned parents have an extremely strong case.
While I whole-heartedly support the bold stand taken by Savio to
express his feelings in print, I would also advise him and other
parents to get to the root cause. From what I have heard, the money is
allegedly being extracted for infrastructure (new school building).
As per the Goa Education Act, existing infrastructure of an
institution is an absolute necessity for it to gain recognition. If it
was non-existent, how was the recognition granted?
Therefore, the people to be pulled up, should be the authorised
signatory who has sanctioned the recognition of the school and the
members of the management who in all probability have used their
influence to get the required recognition, and last but not the least,
the Principal of the institution.
Neglected cross
Jerry Fernandes, Vanxim
During the historical visit to Goa by late Pope John Paul II in 1986,
a metal cross was erected at Campal, Panjim, which was later installed
at Shiroda near St Joseph Church. Herald (6 Feb) carried a photo of
this cross on the 24th anniversary of the visit of the late Pope on 6
Feb.
It would have been better if the cross was installed in Old Goa near
Bom Jesus Basilica Church, as every Goan makes it a point to visit
this Church during the novenas and feast of St Francis Xavier As
things stand, most people are unaware of this cross and, even if they
know, rarely visit it.
If the metal cross were to be installed at Old Goa, people will get an
opportunity to see it and pray near it, as it has such historical
value.
http://www.oheraldo.in/newscategory/Letters/13
bademiyansubhanallah
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"NO WAR" PREDICTED BY JAI MAHARAJ
The following post is archived in the Deja News and other archives:
[ Subject: 'Astrologers see war - Is this true ????' Jai Maharaj
answers
[ From: address....@web.site www.mantra.com/jyotish (Dr. Jai
Maharaj)
[ Organization: Mantra Corporation
[ Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,alt.fan.jai-maharaj,
[ alt.jyotish,alt.astrology,soc.culture.pakistan
[ Message-ID: <Jyotish-16...@news.mantra.com>
[ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 03:15:20 UTC
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
An recent exchange of messages by e-mail is offered:
[ Subject: Re: Astrologers see war for - Is this true ????
[ From: Dr. Jai Maharaj
[ To: [...]
[ Cc: [...]; [...]; . . .
[ Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000
April 30, 2000
Namaskaram
I am grateful to [...] in bringing us together by means
of his e-mail message (appended below).
There will be no war between Bharat and Pakistan this
summer. Violence in Jammu and Kashmir, and elsewhere
in Bharat, perpetrated by the Terrorist State of Pakistan
and Muslim terrorists will continue as it has since 1947.
When news stories about the possibility of a Bharat-
Pakistan war in the summer began to appear earlier this
year, I examined the Jyotish charts of both countries
(based on August 14/15, 1947 times) and was *not* able to
predict even a Kargil-level war for this summer, and had
occasion to post this conclusion in the Usenet newsgroups
in March.
Other Jyotishis have been reported as predicting a war,
and if the newspapers have accurately published the news
items, then I respect the fact that they must have a
reason for the predictions -- a reason that is not yet
evident to yours truly.
In service to Dharm, I remain,
Jai Maharaj
Jyotishi, Vedic Astrologer
http://www.mantra.com/jyotish
Predictions Registry
http://www.flex.com/~jai/registry
Om Shanti
The above message is in response to the following:
----- Original Message -----
> Subject: Astrologers see war for - Is this true ????
> From: [...]
> To: "Dr. Jai Maharaj"; [...]; [...]; . . .
> Date: Saturday, April 22, 2000
>
> [...]
> http://www.deccanchronicleonline.com/cover6.htm - 23-apr-2000
>
> Nasty lineup of stars spells war with Pak
>
> Hyderabad: Predictions from professional astrologers is
> nothing new. But a rare planetary formation due to take
> place in May has emboldened them to state that natural
> and man-made calamities are in store for the country,
> including the possibility of a war over the next few
> months.
>
> According to the astrologers, during the first week of
> May, all the planets are expected to assemble in "Mesha
> Rashi" compressed between Rahu and Ketu, which, they
> said, was not auspicious for mother earth and humankind.
>
> Panchangam expert Madugula Nagaphani Sarma predicted a
> war with a neighbouring country and added that the
> country would emerge victorious due to the presence of
> "Sani, Guru and Kujudu' at one place.
>
> Eminent astrologer V V Rao too predicted a war and said
> conglomeration of planets in Mesha Rashi with Rahu and
> Ketu holding sway over them were the definite signs of a
> possible war looming large over the country besides a
> political uncertainty continuing to haunt the nation.
> Another astrologer, Mohan Ram, told Deccan Chronicle that
> the rare celestial event called "Shastagruha Kutami" was
> most likely to occur on May 3 and would have adverse
> affects on human beings.
>
> "The planets cannot exercise their individual powers as
> they like, and the conglomeration of planets would lead
> to a tussle to exercise their powers, and would have
> adverse affects in the crust of the earth resulting in
> the formation of lava and ultimately causing
> earthquakes", he said.
>
> In July, a pournami (full moon) will occur sandwiched
> between two amasvasyas (new moon) which is also
> considered inauspicious, according tothe astrologers.
> While this amasvasya will occur on July 1 and July 31
> respectively, the inauspicious full moon is due on July
> 16, they said.
>
> There is also the possibility of the Ionosphere getting
> damaged further which in turn would cause radiational
> effects leading to widespread allergic diseases and also
> aggravation of asthma.Ram, however, sought to dispel the
> fears that the diseases would effect only those whose
> stars would be weak during the particular time and also
> depending upon the time and stars during which they were
> born.However, there is a positive side too to the
> celestial event.
>
> Children born during the particular period of the
> conglomeration of planets would not only be born with
> valour,vigour and bravery but will also possess shrewd
> brains due to the presence of Sani, Guru and Kujudu."It
> is a very rare combination of valour, vigour, bravery and
> brains found in the human beings since their origin and
> those born during such a time are really lucky", said
> Nagaphani Sarma.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 6.5.3
Comment1: Message ID <Jyotish-16...@news.mantra.com>
Comment2: Generated using unique encryption keys and message text.
Comment3: Public Key http://www.flex.com/~jai/PGP-current.public-key
Comment4: Public Key http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x7A04CF18
iQA/AwUBOQ+ZbLVrP/t6BM8YEQJ6zgCePFR5qOt/+5S9F97K1KhUeOWL93kAoPTa
mXSATZqGyGoatlNwhNqgHGNC
=blpX
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Jai Maharaj
j...@mantra.com
Jyotishi, Vedic Astrologer
http://www.mantra.com/jyotish
Om Shanti
http://www.flex.com/~jai/registry/nowar.html
Franz Gnaedinger View profile
More options Jan 6, 2:19 am
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian, alt.fan.jai-maharaj,
alt.religion.hindu, sci.lang, rec.arts.movies.local.indian
From: Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch>
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 23:19:32 -0800 (PST)
Local: Wed, Jan 6 2010 2:19 am
Subject: sociopath Jai Maharaj (again)
That false doctor who calls himself Jai Maharaj is again
trying to suffocate sci.lang. Is it a coincidence that he began
his new campaign of massive abusement of our scientific group
around New Year, in sight of 2012 ? year of the alleged end of
the Mayan calendar, in reality a false claim based on a wrong
calculation, and even if the long calendar cycle of the Maya
ended in 2012 it would not mean the end of the world, just
a new calendar cycle. The year 2012 makes astrologers
creep out of their holes, they can frighten people again and
sell them their horoscopes. That false doctor Jai Maharaj
sells horoscopes and abuses our forum for making propaganda
for his astrological firm, pretending that he posts in favor of
the Hindu community, while in fact seeing his marekting niche
among those people he apparently believes are especially
prone to superstition, and therefroe the right and yielding
target of his astrological enterprise.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.jai-maharaj/browse_thread/thread/3897db98b99a798e#
Franz Gnaedinger View profile
More options Jan 6, 2:36 am
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian, alt.fan.jai-maharaj,
alt.religion.hindu, sci.lang, rec.arts.movies.local.indian
From: Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch>
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 23:36:01 -0800 (PST)
Local: Wed, Jan 6 2010 2:36 am
Subject: Re: sociopath Jai Maharaj (again)
On Jan 6, 8:19 am, Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch> wrote:
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
> That false doctor who calls himself Jai Maharaj is again
> trying to suffocate sci.lang. Is it a coincidence that he began
> his new campaign of massive abusement of our scientific group
> around New Year, in sight of 2012 ? year of the alleged end of
> the Mayan calendar, in reality a false claim based on a wrong
> calculation, and even if the long calendar cycle of the Maya
> ended in 2012 it would not mean the end of the world, just
> a new calendar cycle. The year 2012 makes astrologers
> creep out of their holes, they can frighten people again and
> sell them their horoscopes. That false doctor Jai Maharaj
> sells horoscopes and abuses our forum for making propaganda
> for his astrological firm, pretending that he posts in favor of
> the Hindu community, while in fact seeing his marekting niche
> among those people he apparently believes are especially
> prone to superstition, and therefroe the right and yielding
> target of his astrological enterprise.
Repeating my message because that false doctor Jai Maharaj
is spamming sci.lang at an increasing rate.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.jai-maharaj/browse_thread/thread/3897db98b99a798e#
Franz Gnaedinger View profile
More options Jan 16, 2:04 am
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian, alt.fan.jai-maharaj,
alt.religion.hindu, sci.lang, rec.arts.movies.local.indian
From: Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch>
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 23:04:01 -0800 (PST)
Local: Sat, Jan 16 2010 2:04 am
Subject: Re: sociopath Jai Maharaj (again)
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
> That false doctor who calls himself Jai Maharaj is again
> trying to suffocate sci.lang. Is it a coincidence that he began
> his new campaign of massive abusement of our scientific group
> around New Year, in sight of 2012 ? year of the alleged end of
> the Mayan calendar, in reality a false claim based on a wrong
> calculation, and even if the long calendar cycle of the Maya
> ended in 2012 it would not mean the end of the world, just
> a new calendar cycle. The year 2012 makes astrologers
> creep out of their holes, they can frighten people again and
> sell them their horoscopes. That false doctor Jai Maharaj
> sells horoscopes and abuses our forum for making propaganda
> for his astrological firm, pretending that he posts in favor of
> the Hindu community, while in fact seeing his marekting niche
> among those people he apparently believes are especially
> prone to superstition, and therefroe the right and yielding
> target of his astrological enterprise.
On and on that false doctor of the false name goes
abusing sci.lang, spammiing our scientific forum,
often with messages on child abuse by Christian
missionaries. This has nothing to do with linguistics,
and reveals a cynic calculation. Who can say anything
against a protest against child abuse? If you protest
against his spamming you are revealed as someone
who secretly supports child abuse, and so, he hopes,
nobody will speak up against his abuse of sci.lang,
instead, belonging to the accused western world,
we are supposed to crumble away in shame and
allow him to go on with his massive attack on our
forum. But he didn't count with me. I raise my voice
against every religious propaganda in here, also
Christian one, I spoke against missioning all my life,
quoting Matthew 7:16: "Ye shall recognize them
by their fruits" - what counts are not words but what
people do, how they live, what example they give.
And most of all I write against child abuse and child
pornography especially in the web, my reasoning
based on my theory of the two pillars of the law.
A couple of years ago I sent a paper of mine to the
top chief of the Zurich police. A minor chief told me
that my letters contain useful ideas. I am active in
these fields, I don't crumble away before the implicit
accusations of that false doctor of the false name
and his cynic calculation that he can make money
out of child abuse, pretending to care for the Hindu
community while all he has in mind is to catch
new customers for his astrological enteprise.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.jai-maharaj/browse_thread/thread/3897db98b99a798e#
Franz Gnaedinger View profile
More options Feb 2, 2:22 am
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian, alt.fan.jai-maharaj,
alt.religion.hindu, sci.lang, rec.arts.movies.local.indian
From: Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch>
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 23:22:01 -0800 (PST)
Local: Tues, Feb 2 2010 2:22 am
Subject: Re: sociopath Jai Maharaj (again)
A sociopath fools people about his intentions. That
particular sociopath who calls himself Dr. Jai Maharaj,
using a false name and adorning it with a false title,
pretends to defend the cause of the Hindu community
while just boosting his astrological business, fishing
for clients among the Hindus he apparently considers
an especially superstitious bunch of people. That
sociopath should not be encouraged by another -path,
namely my longtime stalker of the many aliases,
Panu Petteri Höglund alias John Bulkington alias
Patrick Karl alias craoibhin66 alias he himself as his
own good friend and pupil Sean Connor soconn1
alias he himself as his own brother in arms and
stalking aide John Hobart Kyle jhobartkyle johnk
alias he himself as his own bride Annina Kaartinen
alias a Rumanian professor who claims to have
discovered the origin of language alias he himself
as his own bride Maria Kupari.
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.jai-maharaj/browse_thread/thread/3897db98b99a798e#
Franz Gnaedinger View profile
More options Feb 6, 4:47 am
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian, alt.fan.jai-maharaj,
alt.religion.hindu, sci.lang, rec.arts.movies.local.indian
From: Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch>
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 01:47:05 -0800 (PST)
Local: Sat, Feb 6 2010 4:47 am
Subject: sociopath Jay Stevens aka Dr. Jai Maharaj
That sociopath Jay Stevens who calls himself
Jai Maharaj and adorns his false name with a false
title goes on massively spamming sci.lang, of the 30
threads presently on the first page of the topics list
15 are by him. I will go on repeating what I have to
say about him, in previous messages quoted below.
My word has a weight, also among the Hindu
community, for I am pointing out the value of Indian
mathematics, I worked about the Harappan tablets,
I can prove that there is a direct line from Harappa
to the Vedic religion, and I can take it up with Dr.
Steve Farmer, assistant of Witzel. Dr. Farmer
felt sorry for me that I believe the nonsense of
Asko Parpola, there being a gap of two thousand
years between 'Pashupati' and the first mentioning
of Murukan. But my work is here to stay, I can show
that the RigVeda go straight back to the mythology
of Ice Age Eurasia. So my word will have a weight
in these matters, my messages will be read again,
and I can tell for sure that Jay Steves who is at present
carrying out his second long-term massive attack on
sci.lang is a sociopath, and a cynic at that, fishing
for clients among the Hindus he considers a particularly
superstitious bunch, trying to win them for his astological
business. He pretends to be defending the Hindu cause,
but he is just making money, and he doesn't care whether
a newsgroup is choked by him, not even if that newsgroup
is seriously concerned with the culture of ancient India,
and providing new and fascinating links between Harappa
and the RigVeda, outwitting Witzel and his adlatus Farmer.
No, that sociopath Jay Stevens aka Dr. Jai Maharaj doesn't
care at all, all he cares about is the money he sucks in
from Hindu clients whom he makes believe his astro-crap.
Franz Gnaedinger View profile
More options Feb 11, 1:23 am
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian, alt.fan.jai-maharaj,
alt.religion.hindu, sci.lang, rec.arts.movies.local.indian
From: Franz Gnaedinger <f...@bluemail.ch>
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 22:23:22 -0800 (PST)
Local: Thurs, Feb 11 2010 1:23 am
Subject: sociopath Jay Stevens alias Dr. Jai Maharaj
Reply | Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show
original | Report this message | Find messages by this author
Dusan, where are you? We need your help in getting
rid of Jay Stevens alias Dr. Jai Maharaj whom you
call a sad monkey. This morning 20 of 30 threads
on the title page of the Google topics list are by him.
Everything is false about him, his Usenet name,
his title, his pretended engagement for the Hindu
community, his pretended compassion for abused
children. His only concern is to acquire clients who
pay good money for his astrological nonsense,
and he coldly calculates that he can find them
among Hindus: they are many, they are prone
to superstition, and, being of a minor intelligence,
he thinks, they won't see through his cynic scheme
and find out what he really has in mind.
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
i.ku...@indero.com View profile
More options Feb 9, 8:08 pm
Newsgroups: sci.physics, alt.fan.jai-maharaj, sci.energy,
rec.arts.books, soc.culture.indian
From: hari.ku...@indero.com
Date: 10 Feb 2010 01:08:08 GMT
Local: Tues, Feb 9 2010 8:08 pm
Subject: ARINDAM BANERJEE BROUGHT SHAME TO JAY STEVENS,AKA DR. JAI
ETC.
Jay stevens,aka dr. jai etc. once almost wet his pants because the
person of the subject paid him some attention. That person is a real
indian and jay stevens,aka dr. jai etc. struggles to find any respect
among them because his indian web image is completely fake.
When the person came looking for help he thought the image was valid
and
sought some help for a project in india.
Quickly he learned that jay stevens,aka dr. jai etc. was not an
indian
but an american pretending to be one and could not provide anything
about india.
Jay stevens,aka dr. jai etc. turned on him like a mad dog and has
been
stalking him since. He even went so low as to attack his wife.
Jay stevens,aka dr. jai etc. continues to show his true character and
the "high" level of enlightenment he has achieved by his school yard
bully antics.
No real indian accepts him for his claims, some allow jay stevens,aka
dr. jai etc. to proceed because he is a useful fool that posts some
radical cut and paste articles they agree with.
Behind his back they laugh at him and wonder how this fool of jay
stevens,aka dr. jai etc. can stand to look at himself in the mirror.
Me, ...again! View profile
More options Jan 23, 7:40 am
Newsgroups: alt.computer.consultants, soc.culture.indian, alt.fan.jai-
maharaj, alt.politics.economics, rec.arts.movies.local.indian
From: "Me, ...again!" <arthu...@mv.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 07:40:37 -0500
Local: Sat, Jan 23 2010 7:40 am
Subject: Jay Stevens (aka Jai Maharaj)...is a fake Hindu, other Hindus
don't accept.
"use...@mantra.com" = Jay Stevens = Jai Maharaj = Ma-ha-ha-raj
Is anti-white, anti-Christian, and tells only one-sided stories about
anyone he doesn't like. He has a sad mind. he is a net stalker.
He has at least three FAQs written about him, going back at least 20
years. Jai Maharaj is the World's biggest spammer. Do a google search
on
"Jai Maharaj FAQ" for extensive history on this vegetarian Nazi.
Jai Maharaj is a sad monkey.
///////////////////
On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 use...@mantra.com wrote:
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
m0bius_0_pret...@yahoo.com View profile
(1 user) More options Dec 13 2008, 7:42 pm
Newsgroups: alt.politics, alt.fan.jai-maharaj, alt.politics.democrats,
soc.culture.usa, soc.culture.indian
From: M0bius_0_Pret...@yahoo.com
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2008 16:42:59 -0800 (PST)
Local: Sat, Dec 13 2008 7:42 pm
Subject: Re: WHY DOES HATE-SPEWING BIGOT "Dr" JAI MAHARAJ HAVE HIS OWN
FAQ?
by this author
fanabba ("Dr" Jai Maharaj sock puppet) squealed:
> M0bius_0_Pret...@ wrote:
> > FAQs about "Dr." Jai Maharaj, aka Jay Stevens:
> > Usenet's Racist Vegetarian Hate Criminal
> >http://www.geocities.com/drjosemariachi/jay_faq.html
> Sine you cannot refute his arguments, you are making personal attacks
> on Dr. Jai Maharaj.
What arguments?
Can you dispute the fact that he (you) is a hate-spewing bigot?
Your (his) bigotry is self evident.
bademiyansubhanallah
More options May 17 2004, 8:14 am
Newsgroups: alt.culture.hawaii, alt.fan.jai-maharaj, alt.jyotish,
misc.writing.screenplays, soc.culture.indian
From: "Sonia" <.fredwinters.NOSP...@ecoweb.co.zw>
Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 22:14:25 +0900
Local: Mon, May 17 2004 8:14 am
Subject: Re: Dr. Jai Maharaj is a cunt
I second that.
"Dr. Jai Maharaj is a CUNT" <de...@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:6d896fd1.04050...@posting.google.com...
| "Dr. Jai Maharaj" Information
|
| This person's game is to use outdated articles to attract people to
| his website, where he sells psychic services. What's most amusing
is
| that many of the groups to which his messages are crossposted do
not
| exist. He plagues many USENET groups. His standard method of
| responding to an attack on his credibility is to repost the
original
| article or to post the sender's personal contact information and
| threaten to report the sender to his/her ISP for spamming or making
| threats (the very definition of irony).
|
| Some info re: Jai Maharaj:
|
| mantra.com Mantra Corporation P. O. Box 1919 Honolulu HI,
96792-6919
| US IP Address 206.126.0.13 [flex.com] Business Entity Name: MANTRA
| CORPORATION Record Type: Master Name for a Domestic Profit
Corporation
| File Number: 82087 D1 Status: Active Purpose: BUSINESS CONSULTING,
| MARKETING,ADVERTISING AND RELATED SERVICES Place Incorporated:
Hawaii
| UNITED STATES Incorporation Date: 11/30/1990 Mailing Address: P O
BOX
| 1919 WAIANAE Hawaii 96792-6919 United States of America Officer
| Information STEVENS,JAY R (possibly "Jai Maharaj") MILLER,JOAN E
| (possibly "Harmony") 11/30/1990 Articles of Incorporation
|
| Flex.com 206.126.0.0 - 206.126.15.255 P.O.Box 22481 Honolulu, HI
| 96823-2481 US
|
| IP Address 206.126.0.13
|
| Administrative Contact: Wong, Delgory K. del@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| Flexnet, Inc. Flex Information Network 808.732.8849 HAWAII Email:
| postmaster@[EMAIL PROTECT ED] 's First Public Access Internet
Provider
| IP Address: 199.201.240.1
|
| hindu.org Himalayan Academy *107 Kaholalele Road* Kapaa, HI 11111
US
| IP Address 64.75.159.118
|
| Quite a few domains not worth mentioning here...
|
| Links:
|
| http://members.tripod.com/sid_e_slicker/india10.html
| http://www.mantra.com/holocaust
| http://mathquest.com/discuss/sci.math/a/m/387192/387198
|
| His "real" name is supposed to be Jay Stevens.
|
| There is an anti-Jay newsgroup too: news:alt.flame.jay-stevens
|
| But the best place to find Jay is news:alt.fan.jai-maharaj
|
| A member of the "flame Jay Stevens" group is "Jose
Mariachi", )another
| self-proclaimed "doctor"?)..."Mariachi" web site could be another
| bogus cash grab remarkably similar to Stevens' site, mantra.com.
|
| Here's a Jai FAQ [long]
| http://www.geocities.com/drjosemariachi/jay_faq.html#bb
AF View profile
More options May 19 2004, 6:41 pm
Newsgroups: alt.culture.hawaii, alt.fan.jai-maharaj, alt.jyotish,
misc.writing.screenplays, soc.culture.indian
From: "AF"
<F788u883l883f9973o777r...@h25o27t8388m939a736365i838l838.com>
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 23:41:27 GMT
Local: Wed, May 19 2004 6:41 pm
Subject: Re: Dr. Jai Maharaj is a cunt
"Sonia" <.fredwinters.NOSP...@ecoweb.co.zw> wrote in message
news:er15m1uto48uyw7.170520042214@CIA...
> I second that.
What a horrible thing to say about the vagina!
I'd say "Dr." Jai Maharaj (real name Jay Stevens?) is a putrid and
festering
sack of toxic gangrenous maggot entrails, except I wouldn't want to
say
anything unfair about putrid and festering sacks of toxic gangrenous
maggot
entrails.
Dan Baldwin View profile
More options May 24 2004, 2:39 pm
Newsgroups: alt.culture.hawaii, alt.fan.jai-maharaj, alt.jyotish,
misc.writing.screenplays, soc.culture.indian, alt.fucknozzles
From: Dan Baldwin <dan_bald...@invalid.com>
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 12:39:30 -0700
Local: Mon, May 24 2004 2:39 pm
Subject: Re: Dr. Jai Maharaj is a cunt
1Shiva wrote:
> anandagraw...@yahoo.com (Anand Agrawala) wrote in message
> > I don't see any reason why you folks need to degrade Jai Maharaj. He
> > has been providing tons of info/news to this news group - which I
> > think is a value to everybody.
> --------------------------------
> Infact, there are many who believe that Dr. Jai Maharaj is actually a
> messiah or a modern-day prophet come as a savior for the children of
> the book...
There are also many people who believe that robots from Mars are
stealing luggage at the airport. Which is why popular opinion means
sweet fuck all when it comes to reality. Reality is unchanged by
belief.
For example, no matter how many people believe it, his real name
isn't
"Jai Maharaj" and he's not a Dr.
--
Dan Baldwin, unethical *by design*
I am a minion of Satan, but my powers are mainly administrative.
Hail the un-alive
Snoopy View profile
More options May 24 2004, 7:00 pm
Newsgroups: alt.culture.hawaii, alt.bonehead.jai-maharaj, alt.jyotish,
misc.writing.screenplays, soc.culture.indian
From: Snoopy <sno...@charlie.brown's>
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 00:00:31 GMT
Local: Mon, May 24 2004 7:00 pm
Subject: Re: Dr. Jai Maharaj is a cunt
Anand Agrawala wrote:
> I don't see any reason why you folks need to degrade Jai Maharaj. He
> has been providing tons of info/news to this news group - which I
> think is a value to everybody.
He hasn't provided any "info/news" that wasn't available in your
local
paper, your local tv station or any online Indian newspapers. On the
other hand, he has been fucking up every newsgroup he can find for 12
years now, and nobody wants to see his posts except for a few fucked-
up
individuals that like his particular brand of hate-speech.
The newsgroups are for discussion. Jay/Johnny/Jai Maharaj does *not*
discuss. That much should be apparent even to his most ardent
ass-kisser. AF is too kind to Jay.
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
soft-eng View profile
More options May 25 2004, 11:37 am
Newsgroups: alt.culture.hawaii, alt.bonehead.jai-maharaj, alt.jyotish,
misc.writing.screenplays, soc.culture.indian
From: softeng3...@netscape.net (soft-eng)
Date: 25 May 2004 09:37:09 -0700
Local: Tues, May 25 2004 11:37 am
Subject: Re: Dr. Jai Maharaj is a cunt
Snoopy <sno...@charlie.brown's> wrote in message <news:z0wsc.
12204$yc4....@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>...
> Anand Agrawala wrote:
> > I don't see any reason why you folks need to degrade Jai Maharaj. He
> > has been providing tons of info/news to this news group - which I
> > think is a value to everybody.
> He hasn't provided any "info/news" that wasn't available in your local
> paper, your local tv station or any online Indian newspapers. On the
> other hand, he has been fucking up every newsgroup he can find for 12
> years now, and nobody wants to see his posts except for a few fucked-up
> individuals that like his particular brand of hate-speech.
I think you folks are making too much of a business-based
spam operation. The "news" articles are not the primary
thing here, the signature is. It seems the idea is to attract
a certain type of people (mostly Indian or Indian origins, with
superstitious faith in astrology) to the web-site, who will then
pay large or small sums of money (depending upon their net worth),
in return for various "future tellings", faith healings, and such.
The web of postings are all about catching some flies here:
http://www.flex.com/~jai/astrology/jyoinq.html
As usual, lots of free stuff is given out, e.g. "Free
biorhythm", "Free chart" etc, in order to pacify
and grab those caught in the web.
In the big scheme of things, I don't know if there
is too much evil here. The people who go to these
things are weak minded, and would have spent the
money on something else equally worthless. So
it's small evil only. (Though a lot of these
astrologers can bring down a healthy civilization,
like maggotts.) Certain xenophobic tendencies
may be getting implanted though.
Of coure, a side effect is targeted spamming, which may
be considered the biggest evil by usenetters...
The spamming does work well, apparently. Check out
the "testimonials", apparently from well-heeled clients:
http://www.flex.com/~jai/astrology/testimonial.html
[A little research will show the predictions
made right here on usenet to be mostly hogwash, but some
of it's bound to come true. The "art" here is to be
vague enough, and to focus on the ones that do
come true.]
mony View profile
More options May 25 2004, 9:26 pm
Newsgroups: alt.culture.hawaii, alt.bonehead.jai-maharaj, alt.jyotish,
misc.writing.screenplays, soc.culture.indian, soc.culture.usa,
soc.culture.british
From: "harmony" <a...@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 21:26:42 -0500
Local: Tues, May 25 2004 9:26 pm
Subject: Re: Dr. Jai Maharaj is a cunt
"soft-eng" <softeng3...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:9fa75d42.04052...@posting.google.com...
> Snoopy <sno...@charlie.brown's> wrote in message
<news:z0wsc.12204$yc4....@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>...
> > Anand Agrawala wrote:
> > > I don't see any reason why you folks need to degrade Jai Maharaj. He
> > > has been providing tons of info/news to this news group - which I
> > > think is a value to everybody.
> > He hasn't provided any "info/news" that wasn't available in your local
> > paper, your local tv station or any online Indian newspapers. On the
> > other hand, he has been fucking up every newsgroup he can find for 12
> > years now, and nobody wants to see his posts except for a few fucked-up
> > individuals that like his particular brand of hate-speech.
> I think you folks are making too much of a business-based
> spam operation.
shriman dr jai maharaj ji provides lots of news from myriad sources
which
most people can not hope to look up in a day's time. thus he provides
a very
useful service. he is truthful, and that gets xtain missionaries and
activists' goat. he is like a regal elephant barked at by missionary
dogs.
naturally, he isn't going to waste his time debating foul mouthed dogs
(i
too have long killefiled snoopy prem thomas) who actually serve
maharaj ji's
point by their congenital ugliness that's uniquely missionary in
style.
Snoopy View profile
More options May 25 2004, 11:12 pm
Newsgroups: alt.culture.hawaii, alt.bonehead.jai-maharaj, alt.jyotish,
misc.writing.screenplays, soc.culture.indian
From: Snoopy <sno...@charlie.brown's>
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 04:12:50 GMT
Local: Tues, May 25 2004 11:12 pm
Subject: Re: Dr. Jai Maharaj is a cunt
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
soft-eng wrote:
> Snoopy <sno...@charlie.brown's> wrote in message <news:z0wsc.12204$yc4....@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>...
>>Anand Agrawala wrote:
>>>I don't see any reason why you folks need to degrade Jai Maharaj. He
>>>has been providing tons of info/news to this news group - which I
>>>think is a value to everybody.
>>He hasn't provided any "info/news" that wasn't available in your local
>>paper, your local tv station or any online Indian newspapers. On the
>>other hand, he has been fucking up every newsgroup he can find for 12
>>years now, and nobody wants to see his posts except for a few fucked-up
>>individuals that like his particular brand of hate-speech.
> I think you folks are making too much of a business-based
> spam operation. The "news" articles are not the primary
> thing here, the signature is. It seems the idea is to attract
> a certain type of people (mostly Indian or Indian origins, with
> superstitious faith in astrology) to the web-site, who will then
> pay large or small sums of money (depending upon their net worth),
> in return for various "future tellings", faith healings, and such.
That by itself is relatively harmless, but Jay is concurrently
pushing
an agenda of xenophobia and hatred against Christians and Muslims in
India. He also actively encourages deadly violence against these
minorities, and vigorously raises funds for these acts of violence.
> The spamming does work well, apparently. Check out
> the "testimonials", apparently from well-heeled clients:
Yup, I have billionaire clients that buy my services for everything
from
security to corporate event management. Unfortunately, I can't reveal
their identities, so you'll just have to take my word for it. But I
can
give you anonymous "testimonials" from them, if you like.......
Fred View profile
More options May 26 2004, 11:17 pm
Newsgroups: alt.culture.hawaii, alt.fan.jai-maharaj, alt.jyotish,
misc.writing.screenplays, soc.culture.indian
Followup-To: alt.test
From: "Fred" <NOS...@zanhu.co.ci>
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 13:17:11 +0900
Local: Wed, May 26 2004 11:17 pm
Subject: Re: Dr. Jai Maharaj is a cunt - Degraded Gay Jay Maharaji
"Anand Agrawala" <anandagraw...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c888adb1.04052...@posting.google.com...
| I don't see any reason why you folks need to degrade Jai Maharaj.
He
| has been providing tons of info/news to this news group - which I
| think is a value to everybody. |
We not degrading the Gay Jay Maharaj, he's never had any standing, so
it's
impossible to degrade him.
You a syphilitic bum sucker for the Fake Doctor Jay Maharaj.
Enjoy chewing Gay Jay Maharaj's haemeroids.
May the drippings of your cock rot your toe nails.
| "Joe Myers" <monkeyh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
<news:6NYqc.1603$1l3...@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>...
| > "AF"
<F788u883l883f9973o777r...@h25o27t8388m939a736365i838l838.com>
wrote
| >
| > [snip]
| >
| > > I'd say "Dr." Jai Maharaj (real name Jay Stevens?) is a putrid
and
| > festering
| > > sack of toxic gangrenous maggot entrails, except I wouldn't want
to
say
| > > anything unfair about putrid and festering sacks of toxic
gangrenous
| > maggot
| > > entrails.
| >
| > You're too kind.
| >
| > Joe Myers
| > "Let putrid and festering sack
| > of toxic gangrenous maggot
| > entrails get their own union!"
bademiyansubhanallah
http://members.tripod.com/sid_e_slicker/india10.html
By Sid Harth
The heinous Hindus like a fake doctor, rather a dog-tor, Hindu
hoodlum, Dr. Jai Maharaj and yours
truly have a running feud. This fundamentalist Hindu terrorist tries
to irritate me, apparently for
no reason. It is going on for good four years. In this time I wrote
and posted nearly five thousand
articles on all subjects imaginable, basically showing the heinous
Hindu character.
This ding bat dog-tor, however, in the same period, or approximately
so, have stolen copyrighted
material from reputed media and posted under his fake name, Dr. Jai
Maharaj nearly fifty thousand
articles, according to Deja.com archives.
I cannot compete with that kind of demonic output. Dr. Jai Maharaj
should thank god for that kind of
energy, drive and single minded pursuit of Hindu ****, that is exactly
what his posts are and always
were. What is that idiotboy's problem? Perhaps schizophrenia, perhaps,
multiple personality
disorder, perhaps advance stages of brain trauma. Whatever is his case
against yours truly, not
clear to me nor is it clear to his Hindu hoodlum cabal.
This hoodlum has just about accused every single leader of the world,
every single religion of the
world, every leader of opposition in India, including but not limited
to Sonia Gandhi, Roman
Catholic wife of former Indian prime minister, Rajiv Gandhi, who was
mercilessly murdered by Hindu
fanatics such as Dr. Jai Maharaj, imagine that.
The over abundance of filth he posts, no one is capable of reading it
no matter how many hours
one can spare for that dishonorable duty. Apart from being a spam
meister, this gangeskhan
reposts several of his very lenghthy, sometimes hundreds of pages long
material, not just once
but several times.
Dr. ding bat dog-tor's feud with me is not unique. He has gone after
several other newsgroup posters
and writers, not the same thing. This saffron **** sheriff considers
himself not only a great
Hindu moralist but like an idiot that he is, breaks his own pumped up
false image, right
thereafter. Of all the material he posts none is penned by him, except
a headline, all caps
venomous headline. His signature includes a Sanskrit mantra, "Om
Shanti, Shanti, Shanti."
Literally it means the be peace, repeated three times for stress.
However this ding bat has no peace in his deluded mind as he comes out
brandishing his excaliber as
a war mongering monkey. There is your typical Hindu filthy thinking
and filthier philosophy. Comes
directly from one black Hindu god, lord Krishna.
All fine and well for me as if not this ding bat ****ting around we
would, most probably, not be
able to portray a typical Hindu American, safe in America which allows
free speech and due
protection under the law. Dr. Jai Maharaj loves free speech as much as
I do. His free speech falls
in the category, which is excluded under the US constitution
gurantees. One cannot cry fire in a
crowded theater, with or without valid reasons.
Ds. Jai Maharaj not only cries, not that womanly cry either, cry of a
warrior, blood curdling cry of
American native, wrongfully called 'Indian.' The cry is shrill,
obnoxious, fearful and
incendiary, to say the least. Hindu hoodlums love him, adore him and
play his game. Good for the
village idiots, I say. I am least disturbed as to the fact that dog-
tor, Dr. Jai Maharaj has
both secret and not so secret groupies. It just proves that an idiot
can be village idiot
Hindus' messed up Messiah. Who else do you think ought to lead bunch
of **** worms than king of
all **** worms, idiotboy, dog-tor Dr. Jai Maharaj?
The problem is with his lies. He lies, lies some more and to cover his
tracks, lies on top of it. If
according to ding bat dog-tor, Dr. Jai Maharaj, Hindu religion is the
best in the world how come he
has to defend it so vigorously? Shouldn't the best product in the
world, including the best
mouse-trap get the people knocking the doors?
This rats' asshole has serious problem with his logic. Let us for
argument's sake consider dog-tor
Dr. Jai Maharaj's argument that Hindu religion is the best and the
Hindu culture is the best add to
that as a corollary, Hindu gods, all thirty-three millions of them are
the best, practitioners of
Hindu religion are the best, citizens liveing in India and
practicising faithfully their cherished
religion are the best, make it anything and everything related to
Hindu religion is the best, for
argument's sake only.
Dt. Jai Maharaj's outrage against the world has no place. The value or
the price of a diamond is
determined by the demand and supply of that unique product. De Beers,
the world monopoly decides
how many diamonds be marketed and at what price. No matter what is
actual production or actual
demand the price is kept high to make diamond value at a specific,
luxury level.
If Dr. Jai Maharajs antics can be considered equal to De Beers cartel,
keeping the value of Hindu
religion at ridiculously high level it serves no purpose. No one is
interested at Dr. Jai Maharaj's
artificially held value of Hindu religion. There is no great rush to
migrate to Hindu religion. The
contrary is true. great many eople have abandoned it, if not stopped
being rigorous practitioners of
Dr. Jai Maharaj brand of Hindu religion.
Under the circumstances, his hue and cry and his illegal, immoral
attitude towards all is
unjustified. No matter how many times I said that Hindu religion is a
gutter religion it makes no
difference to the practitioners of that religion. They still follow
their conscience or personal
choices to stick with it.
Shouldn't this ding bat dog-tor take a hint that it is the personal
choice of Hindus against
overwhelming evidence against their religion, their society, their
history and culture that keeps it
in place. I do not believe that this ding bat dog-tor has that simple
logical truth seeking
imagination.
Dr. Jai Maharaj need not offend or defend anyone. God takes care of
that. I don't suppose this
idiotboy has what it takes to add two and two. Most probably, it would
be five, three or
twenty-two.
Sid Harth..."Show me a defender of Hindu culture and I shall show you
an idiotboy, dog **** eating,
ding bat dog-tor, Dr. Jai Maharaj."
Dr. Gay Maharaj
THE BLACK LIST: ENEMIES OF HINDUS EXPOSED!
Submitted by rkm on Wed, 07/02/2008 - 23:38. Hinduism Defense
THIS PAGE EXPOSES THE EVIL FORCES THAT ARE AGAINST THE HINDU PEOPLE.
EACH OF THESE PERSONS
AND
OR ORGANIZATION HAVE BEEN FOUND GUILTY OF LEADING EFFORTS AGAINST OUR
MOVEMENT THROUGH THEIR ACTIONS OR OTHERWISE. THEIR CRIMES ARE CRIMES
AGAINST THE HINDU PEOPLE.
KNOW YOUR ENEMIES! KNOW WHO WILL BE
RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DOWNFALL OF BHARAT!...and prepare yourselves for
the duty towards your religion and nation.
-HinduUnity.org
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PERVEZ MUSHARRAF -
Crime: For overthrowing the last hope of democracy in Pakistan and
hopes for peace in Kashmir. This man is directly responsible for the
lives of thousands of Indian-Jawans killed at the L.O.C.
E-mail: C...@pak.gov.pk
Begum Khaleda Zia - Prime
Minister of Bangladesh. Crime: Directly responsible for Hindu
Genocide
against the Hindu minority in Bangladesh. For more information on
Hindu
torture, rape and plunder please visit: http://www.hrcbm.org
SYED AHMED BUKHARI(IMAM OF JAMA MASJID, DELHI) - Crime: has
issued a fatwa against our entire nation ..!!!! he has publicly stated
that should the Ram Mandir be constructed , he would personally
engineer an economic blockade of Bharat by making use of unconditional
help from the Islamic world. This criminal has publicly declared
support for the actions of the Taliban for the destruction of the
Buddha statues.
SONIA GANDHI
- Crime: Traitor to India and Hindus, Pro-Christian/Muslims agendas.
This criminal is the most wanted as has a long list of crimes
committed
against the Hindu people. The day Sonia Maino Ghandhi becomes the
prime
Minister of India, that day will dooms day for India. Never must
Hindus
allow this Italian foreigner to rule our Country. See Photo
The Pope
- Crime: One of the biggest enemies of Hinduism. He has vowed to
harvest India into Christianity. This devil is the backbone of all
the
immoral, unethical and forceful conversions in India. Hindus
need to be aware about the forces at work to tear Hinduism apart. The
Vatican, which the Pope is head provides huge amounts of money for
missionary activities, particularly in India. The money is hundreds of
millions of dollars. These missionaries do anything they can to
convert. They purposely pass of misinformation about Hinduism, use
monetary incentives and these are two of the mildest methods. The Pope
has said in no uncertain terms that he will 'harvest India to
Christianity'. This automatically makes the Pope an enemy of Hindus.
Our heritage and culture is so rich, it is something to be preserved
and appreciated. Why do they want to wipe Hindu culture of the face of
the Earth? Conversion to Christianity robs so much of a Hindu. Our
scriptures cover the same conduct as Christianity (albeit with more
reasoning) but the most important robbery is of freedom. In Hinduism
one can has the opportunity to question beliefs and choose which to be
adopted and still be a Hindu. With Christianity you have to accept the
Bible and Christ or you will go to hell! The bible famously quotes
Christ as saying:
'None come to God accept through me'
But in the Bhagwad Geeta Shree Krishna says
'People can come to me through all paths'
It is not our intention to
insult Christianity - but doesn't a system which believes that
sincerity of worship, nobility of thought and action and unselfishness
(among other qualities) get a person to God regardless of whom they
decide to worship make more sense? Isn't such a system of reason based
religion something to be preserved and protected at all costs? It
would
promote peace between religions but alas Christianity cannot see it
(Muslims of course need no mention).
For an interview with a former Catholic who exposes the Pope's
hypocrisy check the following link:
http://www.rediff.com/news/1999/nov/04pope1.htm
Indeed this make The Pope a very serious enemy!
OSAMA BIN LADEN - Crime: A criminal against humanity.
Has waged unholy wars in the name of Allah against India, U.S.A and
Israel. Wanted for bombings of the U.S embassy in Kenya and
Tanzania. Bin Laden is the basic building blocks of Islamic Terrorism
that exist in the world today.
PAT ROBERTSON (700
Club) - CRIME: THIS MAN IS EXTREMELY TERRIFIED OF HINDUISM AND WILL DO
ANYTHING IN HIS POWER TO DESTROY IT. What he fears most is that
Christians are converting to Hinduism. He has gone on to great
extents
by calling Hinduism a 'satanic religion'. He cannot be forgiven nor
can his speeches be forgotten. He is truly a devil out to destroy
something as pure as Hinduism.
BENNY HINN:
This man is a Baptist evangelist who goes to countries around the
world, especially those with large Hindu populations, like Trinidad or
Guyana, and preaches about "the evil of Hindus and Hinduism". He also
tries to covert Hindus to Christianity. All self respecting Hindu
Jawans are asked to stop his gathering by all means possible.
LALOO PRASAD YADAV
- Crime: Swindled the Gau-Chara's money, millions of rupees. Money
was sent into his state from the federal government to be used as cow
feed to protect the cows from starvation. Laloo somehow managed to
get this hands on a large portion of this money. He will burn in hell
for eternity. Laloo is also directly responsible for killing the
dalits in his regime. See Photo of Laloo and Rabri
M.F. Hussian
- Crime: This scum is responsible for painting provocative poctures of
Hindu deities in the name of "freedom of expression". We would like
to
see him paint a sexual picture of Prophet Muhammed engaged in having
sex with a little 6 year old Aiesha. Now that would be real freedom
of
expression. ALL HIS ART WORK SHOULD BE DESTROYED IMMEDIATELY BY ANY
SELF RESPECTING HINDU SOLDIER. NO MERCY SHOULD BE SHOWN TOWARDS THIS
DESTROYER OF HINDUISM.
Photo of M.F.Hussian
ABU ASIM AZMI - Pro
ISI,anti indian, pro jehadi, threat to nation prime accused in mumbai
bomb blast.samajwadi party memeber: Locatopn: Mumbai. In a public
meeting at mumbai he openly gave a lecture to his followers. CHAHE
HINDUSTAN KE TUKDE TUKDE HONE DO PARVAH NAHIMAGAR ISLAM KO IN HINDU
KAFRON SE BACHANA HAI
DAWOOD IBRAHIM
- The leader of the pack who eats away at the foundation of Hinduism
by
bringing in his filth into Indian movies. His hidden messages in
these
movie are corrupting Hindu minds. The master mind thug behind
bollywood. ISI agent, helper and financier.
PROPERTY OWNED BY THE DAWOOD GROUP IN KARACHI
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A 239, Block 13C, Gulshan-e-Iqbal
25, Rufi Cottage, Block 13D, Gulshan-e-Iqbal
Ahmadi Apartments, Gulshan-e-Iqbal
Meymar Arcade, Fourth Floor, Gulshan-e-Iqbal
C-201 Karachi Development Scheme, Extension 1A
Moin Palace, Second Floor, Ghazi Dargah, Clifton
Khayaban-e-Samsher, Defence Officers' Housing Authority
------------------------------------
PHONE NUMBERS USED BY THE DAWOOD GROUP
------------------------------------
+92 300249526 (used by Shakeel, usually answered by his associate
Fahim)
+92 21 521504
+92 21 8117516
+92 21 479507
+92 21 4937773
+92 21 4930345
+92 921 4977077
+92 21 493034
-------------------------------
DAWOOD IBRAHIM'S PASSPORTS
-------------------------------
K 650098 dated July 30, 1975, Mumbai.
M
110522 dated November 13, 1978, Mumbai.
P 537849 dated July 30, 1979, Mumbai.
R 841697 dated November 26, 1981, Mumbai.
V 57865 dated January 3, 1983, Mumbai.
A 333602 dated June 4, 1985, Mumbai.
A 501801 dated July 26, 1985, Mumbai.
F 823692 dated September 2, 1989, Mumbai.
G 866537 dated August 12, 1991, Rawalpindi.
Bharat Shah
- Film Financer with Links to Islamic Mafia Viz Dawood Ibrahim .
Caught
by Mumbai Police for having conversation with Chota Shakeel a Gangster
, Extortionist , a Pakistani ISI Man. See Photo
DILIP KUMAR - Actor, non-resident Pakistani, notorious Hindu hater.
See Photo
SHABANA AAZMI
- Muslim Actress, ISI & Jihad supporter against India.
Anti-National spreads her venom through bollywood. Was involved in
making several Anti-Hindu movies with immoral themes. This women will
do anything to make Hinduism look bad. See Photo
S.RANGARAGAN & N. RAVI
- Editors of THE HINDU publication based in Chennai. Both of them
lead
the anti-Hindu media brigade by publishing articles, editorial made up
of lies and propaganda.
SHARUKH KHAN
- (Actor) Hindus should stop watching his movies at once! This Hindu
hater has publicly spoken against Hinduism. Dawood Ibrahim and Sharukh
have come together to destroy Hindu culture and heritage. Sharukh has
declared Osama Bin Laden as his hero. This criminal needs to be sent
packing back to Pakistan. shah...@shahrukh.com
Salman
Khan (Actor) - His Links to Underworld Mafia Dons are well know to
world and Particularly DAWOOD IBRAHIM. Anti-Hindu, Anti-India.
Arun Ghandhi
- Grandson of the "Mahatma" Ghandhi who sold his own motherland piece
by piece while allowing the Hindu genocide. Arun Ghandhi, following
footsteps of his grandfather is in the same line of non-violence
preaching. - He has written several articles for News India times
(anti-Hindu paper) with outright lies about the VHP and BajrangDal.
He
openly criticizes the BajrangDal for the Godhra violence but not one
mention of why and what the muslims of India are did in Godhra(Burned
58 Hindu women and children). Hopefully this rotten apple who hasn't
fallen far from the grand-tree meets the same end as his traitor
Mahatma! Resides in Florida as of date.
Biju Matthews:
Anti-Hindu Commie! Anti-U.S, Antu-India. Wishes to bring Communism to
India and in the process destroy the soul of Hinduism. He has allied
himself with Christian Missionary and Islamic Jihad organizations to
destroy the fabric of Hinduism. Biju Matthews is a member of PROXA
and FOIL, both of which are communist organizations working under the
guise of liberalism. He has close links with ANSWER(Act Now to Stop
War
& End Terrorism) and participated in an Anti-War rally on Oct26
2002 which opposed any military action against Iraq. A traitor living
in the U.S, Biju Matthews was also noted for his anti-war stance on
Afghanistan.
Biju Mathew, Assistant Professor of Business, Rider University, 2083
Larenceville Road
Lawrenceville, NJ 08648 USA
phone: 609-895-5551
FAX: 609-896-5304
email: mat...@rider.edu
See Photo of Matthews
MR. KRIPASHANKAR SINGH (Home Minister Mantralaya)
Crime: For supporting Muslim thugs and harassing Shiv Sena members.
DAVID DUKE:
Crime - supremacy, anti-Semitism, neo-eugenics, neo-Nazism, racial
tribalism, Christian Identity (racial-religious fundamentalism), and
that Hindus are a dusky inferior race of white-black-yellow mongrels,
following primitive superstition. This can be found in his book 'My
Awakening'.
M C Subarno -
(Senior Indian Administrative Service officer and former regional
development commissioner of Chhotangapur, Ranchi). Crime: Charged in
the cow fooder scam scandle. Subarno has been named accused in case
no. RC 38 (A)/96 of the multi-crore scam.Subarno has been charged with
abetting the scam and receiving monetary benefits from the scamsters.
Anyone who steals from Gau Mata especially fodder can easily turn on
his own mother. Penalty: 1000 lashes and 30 year prison term.
Syed Ali Shah Geelani
(Hurriyat Conference leader) Found Guilty of conspiring against
India.Pro-Pakistani, Extremist and an avid supported of Islamic
militant groups - Hizbul Mujahiddin and Laskhar e Taiyba
RAJENDRA YADAV -
For disrespecting Lord Hanuman in an article he wrote for 'Hans'
Magazine declaring Lord Hanuman, Shivaji, Bhagat Singh as
terrorists.
No self respecting Hindutva activists should tolerate this.
SID HARTH -
Crime: Hundred of article published against Hindutva. This man is a
walking encyclopedia of propaganda against anything Hindu. 1000
lashes for this man cannot be enough. Sid Harth, Newlife Enterprises,
1950 South Shore Drive, Erie, PA 16505. Tel: (814)459-8567,
kash...@erie.net
M.J.AKBAR
- this criminal is a very cunning musalmaan, he is editor of congress
mouthpiece in A.P.called Deccan Chronicle [daily news paper].He is on
the forefront of anti-hindutva brigade. His news paper publishes all
blatant lies on hindutva. See Photo
Zafaryab Jilani
- Crime: The Babri Masjid Action Committee and the Vishwa Hindu
Parishad seem to be on a collision course. VHP president Ashok Singhal
said here on Sunday the date for starting the construction of the Ram
temple would be announced on January 21 by the Dharam Sansad, even as
Babri committee convenor Zafaryab Jilani said that Muslims would
physically resist such an attempt.
M. Veerappa Moily
- Crime: For the deaths of 5 Hindu patriots who wanted to hoist our
national flag during Independence day. This criminal was responsible
for commanding the police to shoot at these patriots. Their deaths
will be avenged.
B.N. Pande
- Cirme: In The Telegraph newspaper dated 3/1/2001, the imbecilic Mani
Sankar Ayer, reported that the historian Vishwanathan Pande had
revised
Mughal history to show that Aurangazeb did not sack Kashi-Vishwanathan
temple because he was a Muslim. B. N. Pande apparently wrote that a
Nepalese princess was entrusted to the care of Aurangazeb; he put her
in the Kashi temple. But the hindu priests molested her and other
hindu
ladies with her. To avenge her honour Aurangazeb destroyed the temple.
I do not know whether the historian had actually written these things
or Ayer is making it up, but someone is lying their heads off. I also
hold the newspaper responsible for publishing such lies in the name of
secularism.
Kanwal Rekhi
- This criminal and his group The IndUS Entrepreneurs have decided to
invest in Pakistan. This will allow the Pakistanis to benefit
economically and more importantly militarily. Thus will in turn allow
I.S.I. to operate with more resources in it's promotion of terrorism
to
India.
Mulayam Yadav Singh - Crime: For ordering the killing of Kar Sevaks.
Charged with : MURDER. See Photo
Amar Singh - Right hand man of Mulayam Singh Yadav. See Photo
Kuldeep Nayar - Journalist [See Photo]
Crime: Extremely Anti-Hindu, resident Pakistani. Address: D-7/2,
Vasant
Vihar, New Delhi .Tel. - 6143949, 6142388, Fax - 6143949
33, Lodi
Estate, New Delhi 110003 Tel. - 4658840. " There is an attempt at
polarisation in the sense that the RSS Parivar is trying to destroy
the
pluralistic character of the country. It is not the consolidation of
Hindu votes, but of those few who want the fundamentalists to
establish
a theocratic state.I am surprised by the absence of action against
religious terrorism. Members of the Vishwa Hindu Parishad and the
Bajrang Dal are no different from the Taliban. The world woke up to
their obscurantism and violence after their attacks in the US. India
is
waking up to their barbarism after their massacres in Gujarat. The
Taliban disfigured Islam; the RSS Parivar is
disfiguring Hinduism."
On Godhra :" Gujarat may well be a laboratory for the Parivar.". He
also said " The Hindutva representatives -- the VHP and the Bajrang
Dal
-- are destroying the lofty aims of the independence struggle. Not
only
that, they are demolishing the country's ethos of pluralism. "
"More
than the ISI, Al-Qaeda and jehadi elements, it is people like Nayyar
who encourage terrorism in all its forms. This kind of statement is
harmful to the morale of security personnel, and encourages terrorist
elements in the country," VHP Surendra Jain said. Another photo of
Kuldeep Nayar
Deepa Mehta -
Crime: For producing movies that depict Hinduism as being immoral.
Her
sidekick Shanana Azmi. Wolves are known to travel in packs.
Jyoti Basu
- Crime: Anti-India, Anti-BJP and The Sangh Parivar, A strong
communist
who wishes to steal India's democracy using all methods. Basu is a
known supporter of the Islamic terrorist network which operates in
India.
See Photo of Basu
Romila Thaper
- Crime: For distorting the true history of India. professor at the
JNU in New Delhi, the Mecca of secularism and negationism in India,
denied the Muslim genocide by replacing it instead with a conflict of
classes : "Muslims brought the notion of egalitarianism in India",
they
argue . In her "Penguin History of India", co-authored with Percival
Spear, writes again : "Aurangzeb's supposed intolerance, is little
more
than a hostile legend based on isolated acts such as the erection of a
mosque on a temple site in Benares. See Photo.
Vincent Kunudukulam
- Crime: This priest from of the St Thomas Pontifical Seminary, Aluva
who claims to have a doctoral degree has written his thesis on the
R.S.S . He has openly declared in several of his works that the RSS is
a fascist organization and that Hindutva was a distorted version on
Hinduism. It is clearly that his work of "forceful conversions" of
Hindus is being interrupted by the Sangh. Too Bad! This scum of the
earth needs an attitude adjustment.
Dilip D'Souza - Crime: Has writing several articles against Hindutva.
This man is a Hindu hater. http://www.rediff.com/news/dec/16dilip.htm
e-mail: dil...@rediff.co.in
Stephen R. Welch - A journalist who writes for The Secular web, web
site: http://www.infidels.org. Welch is responsible for writing
several propaganda articles against Hindutva. His e-mail is:
wel...@corpdc.utc.com
RABI MAHARAJ
- This guy is a so called ex-yogi turned Christian. Supossidly
lectured
in over 500 univ. in 80 countries against hinduism. His funda is that
Hinduism is very very satanic and what so ever good is in it, they
copied from Christianity. He has no knowledge about Hinduism and is a
self styled Hindu expert in west. This shameless scum is still
prowling
around. He wrote a anti-Hindu book called "***********i". He is hailed
as the christian answer to Hinduism.
Helen Heklund -
This scum owns several web sites that spread false propaganda about
Hinduva. This criminal is directly responsible for spreading false
lies about the Sangh Parivar and is determined to cause a strife
between the Hindus and the Sikhs. Her pro-muslim agenda is clear! The
criminal may be using several alias but her mailing address is PO BOX
2427, Grandbury, TX, 76048 (taken off the whois directory on the net).
Telephone #: Not-listed. E-mail: hekl...@HOTMAIL.COM
Dr. Ram Punuyani -
Rabid Anti-Hindu who claims to be an expert on Hindu nationalism and
religious fundamentalism has made a living spreading anti-Hindutva
venom.
Somnath Charterjee - On POTA - "It is only for the purpose of creating
a feeling of scare among some communities". See Photo
Mani Shankar Aiyar - Pseudo Secularist , Propaganda Artist , Pro
Muslim , Anti Hindu , ANTI ISRAEL , ANTI JEW. See Photo
Sunil Dutt
- Pro Muslim , ANTI HINDU, Pseudo Secular , CONGRESSMAN , Born in
Pakistan and having special Attachments with Islamic Terrorists
(I.S.I). His Son, Actor Sanjay Dutt was Arrested on TADA and Helped in
Bombay Blast. See Photo. See Photo of Sunil and Sanjay
Sanjay Dutt
- Son of actor Sunil Dutt recently caught on tape talking to Dawwod
Ibrahim.(Muslim mafia don and financier to the muslim terror network
known as I.S.I) See Photo.
Salman Khurshid
- Former Indian State Minister for Foriegn Affaris. A hardcore
pro-Pakistani living in India; As a minister of external affairs he
assured that Dawood's (Islamic Mafia Don) mother get the passport &
visa within 24 hours and fled out of the country.
Inder Kumar Gujral
- He declared in parliament in late December 1990, that "a color is
being seen these days which was also seen at the time of the Mahatma's
murder. I don't need to give the name of the color." (Refering to our
Hindutva flag - Bhagwa which is orange. This commie bastard doesn't
realize his own color of Red.
Nirmala Despande - Psuedo-Secular at it's best, pro-Ghandhi, pro-
Muslim and extremely anti-Hindu. Her website: http://www.nirmaladeshpande.org/
Permanent
address : (i) Gandhi Ashram, Kingsway Camp, Delhi-110009 and (ii)
Brahmavidyamandir, P.O. Paunar, District Wardha, Maharashtra 442111
See Photo
Chandresh Kumari, Shirimati -
Rani Chandresh Kumari (Princess of Jodhpur) , Member of Parliament and
former Minister of State for Tourism (Himachal Pradesh). P-sec,
Pro-Muslim and is ready to bleed Hindus if given a chance. 8,
Ferozeshah Road, New Delhi. 110001Tel. - 3719870 kum...@sansad.nic.in
Permanent Address Clouds End Villa, Dharmshala, Dist. Kangra, Himachal
Pradesh Tel. - 24904. See Photo
Jairam Ramesh
- who at present is the Secretary of the Economic Affairs Department
of
the Congress Party in New Delhi, the Deputy Chairman of the Karnataka
State Planning Board. P-sec, extremely Pro-Islamic!
Praveen Rashrapal
- What is the difference between racial discrimination and caste
discrimination? "The first is like raping a woman without a condom and
the second is raping her with a condom. "That analogy was made by
Praveen
Rashtrapal, Member of Parliament from the Congress Party, India's main
Opposition party. He was speaking at a press conference held by the
Dalit Caucus and National Campaign for Dalit Human Rights. The subject
of the press conference was, "Include Caste and Caste-based
Discrimination in WCAR and UN Agenda." ANTI-HINDU !
Gulam Nabi Azad
- Member of Congress. Anti-Hindu right to the core. Would love to see
India turn Islamic. Crime: Passing on Information to all Militants in
Kashmir-- SHAME TO U GULAM! See Photo.
Buddadeb Battacharaya - Communist Leader. Wishes to bring communism to
India and has to allied himself with Muslim terrorists working in
India . See Photo.
Sitaram Yechuri - Wants to make India Red! Another communist Hindu
hater. See Photo.
Ram Vilas Pasan
- P-Sec & Anti-Hindu! and thriving on Dalit votes! Driving a wedge
between among Hindus using caste and helping anti-Hindu forces
indirectly
Amedkar, Shri Parkash Yashwant
- Thriving on Dalit Votes! Shame, shame! Driving a wedge between among
Hindus using caste and helping anti-Hindu forces indirectly. See Photo
& Biodata.
Udit Raj
- National Chairman of the All India Confederation of Schedule Caste
and Schedule Tribe Organizations Driving a wedge between among Hindus
using caste and helping anti-Hindu forces indirectly. 44-year-old Udit
Raj (previously Ram Raj) is one of the youngest Dalit leaders of the
country.
Converted to Buddhism a year ago, this Additional
Commissioner of Income Tax in Delhi is busy forging new alliances with
Dalit Muslim organizations and other Buddhist associations. Although
associated with one of the largest Dalit organizations in the country,
his limitation is that he has not been able to form a political party
yet.
"While Ambedkar crafted the Constitution , the Hindutva
brigade is carrying on a review with the purpose of killing it.
Ambedkar stood for reservation for SC/STs, the BJP stands for eroding
it. Ambedkar converted to Buddhism, the BJP is thinking of introducing
a provision against religious conversion. An amalgamation of Ambedkar
with Hindutva is a dishonour of Babasaheb. The minorities have become
a
worse untouchable post-Godhra. The natural alliance of Dalits can only
be with the Dalit Muslims and other backward Muslims. " -- UDIT RAJ.
See Photo of Udit Raj.
VR Krishna Iyer -
Former Judge, Supreme Court of India. Anti-Hindu, P-Sec. Pro Islamic.
Iyer writes "...Therefore, hidebound Hindutva, red in tooth and claw,
is an invasion of the basics of our Constitution". Quoted by
Communalism Combat another anti-Hindu paper. See Photo
MORE ANTI-HINDU COMMIES
Angana P. Chaterjee - Anti-Hindu Commie! Residing in San Francisco at
163
Liberty Street, San Francisco CA 94110. Tel: (415)648-0138. Director
of
Research with the Asia Forest Network, Center for Southeast Asia
Studies, University of California, Berkeley. See Photos
KARUNANIDHI - Pro-Muslim, Hindu Hater. He abolished the Hindi language
as well as learning Sanksrit from Tamil Nadu. See Photo
Harkishan Singh Surjeet. See Photo
Ardhendu Bhushan Bardhan - General secretary of Communist Party of
India
Shri Yusuf Sarwar Khan (Alias: Dilip Kumar)
- Delhi Address: 7 GRC Road, New Delhi. Tel: 3019349. Permanent
Address: Saira Bunglow, G-1, 34-B, Pali Hill Road, Bandra (West),
Mumbai. 400050. Tel: 6465786,6055666, Fax 6465786, e-mail:
d...@sansad.nic in.
Arundathi Roy - said "In the era of the global village, war between
India and Pakistan is like a war between Dalits and Adivasis." See
Photo1,
See Photo2, See Photo3
Tavleen Singh - Anti Hindu and Perfect Pseudo secular Reporter
She rubs shoulders with Khalistanis and Anti-Hindus (Muslims, Commies)
Praful Bidwai - Another journalist who defames Hinduism and the Sangh
Pariwar and a spoon for the Muslims. Photo1, Photo2, Photo3
Vir Singhvi - Anti-Hindu/India, P-sec! See Photo.
Bipan Chandra - Anti-Hindu, Pro-Muslim! Former Professor of History,
Jawaharlal Nehru University (The Mecca of negationism in India). See
Photo
Dr. Harbans Mukhia - Anti-Hindu, P-sec. A professor at JNU. Fax:
+91-11-616-5886 eMail: muk...@global-studies.de
Kushwant Singh - Anti-Hindu, P-Sec. See Photo.
Mahesh Bhatt
- His Comment on Sanjay Dutt's conversation with Mafia Boss Chota
Shakeel : "Let's not seize the moment and say that the conversation
between these gangsters and the people mentioned in these
tapes suggests that these people are part of the underworld crime
network"
Meera Nair
- Pro-Muslim, Anti-Hindu film maker who retains a Hindu name for
benefits from the Indian Society to watch her filth. Her latest movie
in the pipe line is about Sept 11th Muslim heroes. See Photo
Amitava Kumar
417 W Nittany
Ave,
State College, PA 16801-4057
Amitava Kumar has written several articles against the Hindutva
movement and has deliberately shown support for Muslims and Christians
without any concern for Hindus. He wrote recently for telekha.com
against HinduUnity.org.
Vijay Prashad - This
"pretend to be Hindu" bastard has written several anti Hindutva
articles for Little India Magazine. His last article was against
HinduUnity.org which appeared in the May 2001 issue of Little India.
This traitor to Hinduism is helping muslims and christians do their
dirty work against the Hindu people by writing articles full of Hindu
hatred and propaganda. The Soldier of Hindutva are watching you Vijay!
Please visit him and call him at: 199 Beacon St, Hartford, CT
06105-2927
Tel: (860)232-4815. Photo of this devil
Example:
Smita Narula of
Human Rights Watch - involved in anti-Hindu and anti-India
propaganda.
HRW is dedicated to throw down play the Hindutva movement with false
lies and extreme propaganda.
Pankaj Mishra
- Anti-Hindu, Pro-Muslim journalist. Mishra's tendency is to blame the
VHP and other Hindu organizations for attacks against Christians and
Muslims but will NEVER provide any context for those attacks. .
Drishti Patel - Anti-Hindu journalist working for TV Asia News.
Girish Patel - Anti-Hindu journalist writes " the BJP–RSS–VHP–Bajrang
Dal combine have acted in the way Hitler did in Germany".
Ashok Mitra - Communalism Combats' Anti-Hindu Journalist List
Hosbet Suresh - Communalism Combats' Anti-Hindu Journalist List
Aruna Roy - Communalism Combats' Anti-Hindu Journalist List
Nilopat Basu -
Communalism Combats' Anti-Hindu Journalist List
NC Saxena - Communalism Combats' Anti-Hindu Journalist List
KS Dhillon - Communalism Combats' Anti-Hindu Journalist List
Fali S Nariman - Communalism Combats' Anti-Hindu Journalist List
Vibhuti Narain Rai - Communalism Combats' Anti-Hindu Journalist List
Harsh Mander
- Communalism Combats' Anti-Hindu Journalist List
Indira Jaisingh - Communalism Combats' Anti-Hindu Journalist List
Dr. V Kannu Pillai - Communalism Combats' Anti-Hindu Journalist List
Dr. Mohammad Netatullah Siddiqi - Anit-Hindutva propangda activist
who's sole purpose is to incite Muslims to commit violence against
Hindus.
Praveen Swami
- Another anti-Hindu who writes for FrontLine Magazine as well as
others use lies, deceit and propaganda to defame Hindutva activists in
their right to protect the Hindu people from Islamic terrorism.
Manu Joseph
- Another Hindu hater journalist(Outlook magazine) out to defame the
righteous nationalists of India. His aim: to destroy the image of
VHP,
BJP, RSS etc and his new project is the character destruction of
Narendra Modi.
Niraj Pant - Anti-Hindu journalist. Amongst his barrage of Anti-Hindu
views and articles, articles,
Aziz Haniffa - A Muslim reporter for India Abroad known to spew venom
and hatred against the Hindu people
Celia Dugger
- Reporter for the New York Time has covered the Godhra incident with
an extreme Anti-Hindu bias while claiming innocence for Muslims. The
first headline, for a report by Celia Dugger, on February 28, reads:
“Firebombing of Train Carrying Hindu Activists Kills 57.” The
headline
does not mention Muslims. The word “activists” provides the “damper
clause” to underplay, if not rationalize, the gruesome crime
perpetrated by the Muslim mob that carried out the attack. Read More
as Celia Dugger gets exposed.
Shashi Tharoor - Virulently Anti-Hindu Journalist.
Mahdi Masud - Writer for The News Internationals. Anti-Hindu, Pro-
Muslim!
Masud Akhtar Shaikh - Anti-Hindu writer for The News International
Karmat Khan - Writer for The Frontier Post. Anti-Hindu, Anti-India,
Pro-Muslim
Mubarak Shah - Another journalist of The Frontier Post who spews venon
against the Hindutva movement. Anti-Hindu, Anti-India!
Syed
Atiq ul Hassan - Anti-Hindu journalist for The Frontier Post
Sugita Katyal - Anti-Hindu journalist for Reuters
Rajyasri Rao - Anti-Hindu journalist, BBC correspondent in Delhi
Rashmee Z Ahmed- Anit-Hindu journalist for Times of India
Sultan Shahin - Muslim journalist working for Asia Times. Very Anti-
Hindu
Anthony J. Aschettino - Virulently Anti-Hindu Journalist from
Paknews.com
Javed Jabar - Journalist of The Hindu. Anti-Hindu, Anti-India, Pro-
Muslim
Martin Woollacott - Writer for Guardian. Strong Anti-Hindu, Pro-Muslim
stance.
ANTI-HINDU NEWSPAPERS, MAGAZINES & MEDIA OUTLETS
The Hindu
Communalism Combat
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rkm's blogLogin or register to post comments804 reads
#1Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Wed, 11/26/2008 - 01:23.
if we are hindus these
if we are hindus
these muslims will prevail
bt atleats i can reliev my anger
Login or register to post comments
#2Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Wed, 11/26/2008 - 01:21.
we should at one time bomb
we should at one time bomb all muslim congested places
and kill all muslims
politician s
bbusiness men
actors
medias
anyone islamic shud be removed
compeltlly
once at once onetime
wat they did in 1993 one timme all came down
like 9/11 one time all came down
http://www.sanghparivar.org/blog/rkm/the-black-list-enemies-of-hindus-exposed
Guess, who are in a Moral Mess? Hindus!
Sid Harth
Filthy Hindu pigs like Dr. Pravin Togadia, international general
secretary of virulent, vainglorious, vulture of Hindu culture goes on
proclaiming the virtues of high holy Hindu culture, whereas, the facts
are never in their filthy minds. The facts as gleamed thru moral
crisis of millennium, HIV/AIDS.
I am not making claims this way or that way. What I am pointing out is
the wild spread of this virus in India which definitely has something
to do with grinding poverty of masses, heavy to moderate drugs usage
among the yuppies, free-for-all sexual contacts among the displaced
lower caste coolie labor, undeclared but very much present homosexual
connection in a weird society and bunch of denials at all levels of
society, the topmost liars and spin doctors being government
bureaucrats under Hindu moralist pressure groups such as VHP of Dr.
Pravin Togadia son of a *****.
Merely two and a one half percent of Christian population in India is
portrayed as anti patriotic, to start with. We are not even talking
about twelve percent of Muslims as yet. Among this small section of
Christian Indians came leaders of community, high ranking government
officers, law enforcement officers, lawyers, doctors, social workers,
educators, teachers, professors, artists, actors and actresses, labor
leaders, federal government ministers, scientists, writers,
journalists, authors of books, editors, businessmen and women, poets,
playwrights and eminent thinkers and freedom fighters. This is all due
to the educational institutes, created and sustained by the church
missions more managed by the native Christians and less by foreign
missionaries. President KR Narayanan is one such excellent example as
to how the system is good and beneficial to all those lower caste
Hindus and Tribal people moving towards kinder and gentler
Christianity that remain at the bottom of the Hindu heap, more like,
pile of Hindu shit.
Dr. Pravin Togadia and his buddies send alarms over conversion issues,
nominal under the circumstances at least not of the size and
proportion of the rise in HIV/AIDS related human scourge yet these
Hindu hoodlums, piss puddle poodles take no alarmist views on the real
danger to the Hindu society.
Sid Harth..."Dr. Togadia like Hindu dingbat want magnificent, opulent,
massive temples for a fictitious Hindu epic, character, Rama but do
not want to provide material and spiritual help to all those guilty or
innocent Hindus affected by and suffering from HIV/Aids."
http://www.comebackkid.com/back29.html
aho mast marathi news....ROTFLOL
H$m±J«ogÀ`m H$m`©H$Ë`mªda nmo{bgm§Mm bmR>r_ma - VmoJ{S>`m§da A§S>r \o$H
$br
http://www.lokmat.com/today/hed4.htm
ha ha ha ha.............ande maro bheje mein,bheja shor karta
hai.......
saala kutada
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nukkad Wali Chai Kee Dukaan
Posts: 1,819
Rotten eggs and Tonatoes Hurled at Togadia!!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo!!In pune Cong. workers painted togadia black,and today at nagpur
he was welcomed with eggs and tomatoes.
All "n0n-secular " a$$holes like him,raakhwaala,tinda shall meet such
destiny...........ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
I love Cong.......VHP has yet to achieve their kinda of advanced
hooliganism..........Sonia darling amar rahe
October 25th, 2002, 04:23 AM
Dhurandhar Bhat
Banned
News, Views and Reviews- Sid Harth
Category
Home >> Society & Culture >> Personal Pages >> M - O >>
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http://www.comebackkid.com/views.html
Description :
Indian Politics, poverty, caste system, Brahmin domination, morality,
spirituality, aborigines, slavery, mafia.
http://www.search4i.com/Society-Culture/Personal-Pages/M-O/23335/News-Views-Reviews-Sid-Harth
By Sid Harth on Wednesday, December 08, 1999 - 09:00 pm:
Sir Vidiadhar Surajprasad Naipaul, Revisited.
Saturday, November 6, 1999 4:10 PM
I am a great fan of Sir Vidia, period. I am also a great fan of my
brother, Salman Rushdie. I am a great fan of John Le Carre not to
forget good buddy Paul Theroux. So what is that makes me jump up and
down when these guys throw brickbats instead of bouquets at each
other?
It is what all intellectuals do to fight the boredom, I guess. Salman
Rushdie and a fatwa on him for defiling prophet Mohammed made that
simple story teller into some kind of celebrity. Not that Salman is
not capable of doing without it. Sir Vidia made a household word of
his name because he scolded the boorish country called India. His
ancestors came as indentured coolies to British colonies off of south
America. Persisted and made that group of islands their home.
Periodically, the now transmigrated British Indians would long for
their country and visit to pay tribute, visit old haunts, meet kith
and kin and carry fond memories of their travel.
Sir Vidia came and found that the ideal India as described to him by
his parents, relatives and friends was a fictitious place. The fucked
up India was a reality. The way he wrote about India twenty-five years
ago was a shock to the native Indians. He did not lie. He did not make
up stories. He, simply, narrated the journey in a crisp style, all so
fresh and innocent. Indians, the elite chhota babus, did not like his
sincerity. They would have lynched him for belittling their great
culture. Thank god, it didn't happen.
Salman Rushdie left the shores of India and settled in England, so did
Sir Vidia. Both wrote extensively on the backdrop of India. Each had
his own narrative and literary style. Both delighted the western,
English speaking audience and made big name, yeah, and big bucks, them
too.
Now, after they basked in the glory of such unheard of world
attention, somehow or other, both find life on the fast lane bit
boring. There is no competition among them as their genre of writing
is dissimilar. The subjects are similar but style is what makes their
reputation. What are they fighting about?
Of all the things, "Hinduttva." Sir Vidia is a token Hindu and Salman
is a token Muslim. They are both fully westernized and give a damn as
to what happens to India. Paul Theroux and John le Carre have
different chips on their shoulder. They could be jealous of Sir Vidia.
Professional rivalry, sort of. Salman has nothing to worry about Sir
Vidia's one hundred eighty degree turn on India. The guy hated every
inch of India. Now the same Sir Vidia is becoming a RSS pimp, praising
the almighty Hindu, Brahmin Mafia's terminal disease called
"Hinduttva."
I repeat again just in case you did not read my previous articles
about this goddamned thingy called "Hinduttva." Hinduttva is good.
Very good, make it very very better than good. If you know who
invented the term and gave a life of its own. Vinayak Damodar
Savarkar, the terrorist coined that term, defined it and thought that
it is a mantra that would make India one single nation of all the
people, not just •••• shoveling RSS Brahmin bozos.
Savarkar committed suicide, something bothered him about his part in
Mahatma Gandhi assassination plot. As such he was totally eliminated
by Poona Brahmins on account of his homosexual lifestyle in Ratnagiri
where he was spending his life sentence under house arrest. His
younger days' charm was all washed off. His poetry and social work to
eliminate the caste system and Hindu Muslim enmity were not the issues
which commanded great attention from the Brahmin cabal.
The Hinduttva of Savarkar was so simple and so pure that it could and
still should make India a proud and prosperous nation. Brahmins, as
they are so accustomed to do things of this sort, twisted the meaning
of Savarkar Hinduttva and it is a curse now.
Sir Vidia is not a social scientist, not a religious leader, not a
political pundit, not even a native Indian. For him to applaud the
heinous Brahmin cabal's misplaced notion of Hinduttva is a shame on
his intellectual prowess. Salman called and justifiably so that Sir
Vidia has become a cheerleader for the feces fascists is a crying
shame.
Poona Brahmins want to resurrect Savarkar's ghost and make him another
of those Hindu god. The fact that they are making Savarkar a demi god
for wrong reasons, for his terroristic career and not for his Shudra
emancipation or his national equalization by breaking the caste and
religious barriers for the glory of India.
Thanks to the Asian Age dated November 6, 1999.
http: //www.asianage.com/index1.htm#7
http: //www.catharton.com/authors/99.htm
http: //community.wow.net/folio/Enigma_of_Arrival.html
http: //www.globecorner.com/t/t25/12663.html
http: //www.heinemann.com/trade/trcwsn.html
http: //www.oxfordbooks.com/fallo/bendriver.html
http: //landow.stg.brown.edu/post/caribbean/naipaul/bio.html
http: //www.bcity.com/book_bargains/sir_vidia.htm
http: //www.forbes.com/Forbes/98/0223/6104149a.htm
Sid Harth..."This is not the first time RSS bozos have placed cart
before the horse, donkey, jackass, whatever."
By Editor (Admin) on Wednesday, December 16, 1998 - 07:00 pm:
VS Naipaul - born in West Indies (Islands off South America) where
Indian people were sent as indentured labor for sugarcane fields a few
centuries ago.
VS is one of the most well known and best selling author of English
Language and is famous for his fiction work, but more for his
"travelogs" among them "Among the Believers" and his recent "Beyond
Belief" - written on his travels to Islamic countries.
Paul Theroux is an American who also lives in England and has written
some travel writing but he is lately known for his severe attacks on
his long time friend and Guru - VS Naipaul.
Paul has senstationalised the literary circles after his strong
criticism and rather frustrating relationship - specially after VS
married a Pakistani Lady recently.
This is todays news:
Naipaul is casteist: Paul Theroux
The famous falling out of friendship between two literary giants, V S
Naipaul and close friend Paul Theroux is now reverberating across
India.
After a friendship spanning 32 years, Theroux, author of bestselling
book The Great Railway Bazaar, has decided to go public on this spat
while
Naipaul maintains a sphinx-like silence.Travelling through Rajasthan,
Theroux, in an exclusive interview explained the factors that led him
to write his explosive expose :Sir Vidia's Shadow: A Friendship Across
Five Continents.
In the book he has described Naipaul as ``Indian to the core - caste
conscious, race conscious and a food fanatic. Is that his opinion of
all Indians? A trite defensively, he said, ``Maybe that was slightly
exaggerated. I did not mean to belittle Indians. If I may modify it, I
have just returned from Jaipur where I found the caste system very
much in evidence even today.''He had nicknamed Bahawalpur in Pakistan
(from where Naipaul's wife Nadira comes) as ``Bowelpore'' and had
described it as a quintessential shitty little town. Was that how he
saw most cities in the sub-continent?
Theroux admitted this was a poor joke but he felt amazed at the habit
of people defecating by the roadside.Was this book an attempt of the
disciple,
who has himself written 34 highly acclaimed books, to displace the
master and thereby occupy his throne. Theroux was adamant that was not
the case.``I cannot displace him since I write nothing like him. My
book is
about the socio-pathology of writing, the sickness, its such an odd
profession.''``Of course the falling out had something to do with
Naipaul's marriage with Nadira. I met her only once. She seemed
extremely friendly and loving towards Naipaul. I don't want to suggest
that I was jealous.
When your friend finds happiness: you are happy for your friend.''But
Theroux claims he was thunderstruck when he received a fax from Nadira
criticising him for having written an obituary on Naipaul's former
wife
Pat. She also warned him that an official biography on Naipaul was
going to be written and he should not presume on his (Naipaul's)
friendship.Theroux felt Nadira was warning him not to write about her
husband. The letter had the opposite effect. ``Writers are
dysfunctional individuals.I took the risk of becoming a writer in
order that I be free. I don't need anyone's
permission to write.''``I also realised then that if an official
biography of Naipaul was going to be written, it would be done in a
grand way - by his admirers and acolytes. I decided I would write a
book about the man, the Naipaul I knew.''Unable to understand
Naipaul's role in the composition of the bizarre letter, he wrote to
him questioning about it, and got no reply. By an uncanny coincidence,
he bumped into him in London and when questioned him about its
contents, Naipaul replied ``Take it on the chin
and move on.''Naipaul's words Theroux confessed were akin ``to being
hit on the head.'' He realised then that their relationship was over.
The book that resulted, Theroux claims is an affectionate but
unsparing summing up of the man.
By Rainforest on Monday, January 25, 1999 - 02:19 am:
About Naipaul and Theroux:
Indian writers of English (if I can include Naipaul among "Indians")
are problematic. Indians must carry a lot of cultural baggage which
makes Westerners chafe. Like the spices for which the Peninsula has
always been so well known, we Indians perhaps come on too strong. Like
Nixon or Clinton, Indian luminaries cultivate a lot of (socio-
cultural) enemies even as they distinguish themselves with their
brilliance. Indians are difficult to stomach not just to Westerners,
but also to other Indians.
Consider Rushdie and Naipaul. Literary accolades are bestowed on both
by the best of the critics. And yet, there is plenty of vitriol, too.
In Rushdie's case it's about his obtuse fantasy style and his
Indianization of English, both allegedly garbing a lack of substance,
lack of depth. In Naipaul's case, after all these years, there's this
personal hate mail by a former protege and friend Paul Theroux.
Whatever the justification for this "aftertaste", I think we owe
ourselves some introspection to come to terms with this Western
reaction to our collective persona.
Just a spontaneous thought, requiring more gestation and analysis, to
be expanded on -- sometime, someplace. This is probably the wrong
forum to bring this up, so I'll feel rewarded with even a single
interesting response to it!
By Shrikant Amtey on Sunday, February 07, 1999 - 01:41 pm:
A response to 'Naipaul and Theroux' by Rainforest:
I personally feel we Indians flatter ourselves by including either
Naipaul or Rushdie (I have not read any of his books, I have read all
of Naipaul's) among us. They seem to think a lot more clearly
precisely because they have overcome what you call the cultural
baggage (the negative aspects of it) bacause of their distance from
it. I dont think Paul Theroux's reaction to Naipaul can be termed as
Western reaction to Indianness. It is too personal to be generalized -
I wonder why it took 30 years and nasty faxes for him to react. He has
acted like Pat in many respects, whom he pitied, to last that long as
a friend from what he lets on in his book.
The only 'Indian' I know who has shown same degree of candor and
brilliance in his writing is Nirad babu(Nirad Chaudhuri) in his
'Autobiography of an unknown Indian' and other books. We Indians like
to dismiss him as an anglofile.
I do agree with you, that we need to indulge in some (a lot!)
introspection about ourselves, on our own without any help from the
expatriates.
http://hindustan.net/discus/messages/74/1466.html?944686859
Posted by echoboom on Saturday June 6, 2009 08:45 pm a great inter-act
by SID HARTH ( here for records)
Date: Sunday, June 11, 2000 12:41 PM
Sid Harth
Please Read Maha Mantra; Vedic Revealings; Real Songs of Ishwara
HINDU BRAHMINS IN USA AND IN ENGLAND
(Minorities and Second Class Citizens)
1. About ``Brahmins only`` Internet Matrimonial Adds.
These ads are Idiotic, Racist, and Shameful, disgusting; Stop this
cowardly behavior for heaven sake.
Promoting and exporting Caste System from Third World Country to
Civilized Cultured Tolerant Nation like USA. Brahmin brothers,
sisters, fathers, mothers and their family tree people from United
States of America, England, India and other parts of World,
shamelessly put their classified matrimonial adds calling for
``Brahmin brides only, Brahmin bridegrooms only`` in Internet
Matrimonial for their Brahmin Sisters, Brothers, Sons, Daughters and
for their Brahmin Friends.
SHAMEFUL TO YOU IDIOTS! BURY YOUR HEADS IN TOILET BOWL! STOP THESE
FILTHY GREAT CULTURAL HABITS FOR THE HEAVEN SAKE. STOP IT, YOU DIRTY
BRAHMIN RACIST UGLY PIGS.
BRAHMINS WILL BE EXPOSED TO WHOLE WORLD FOR CREATION OF PERMANENT
CASTE SYSTEM AND OTHER INNUMERALE ATROCITIES COMMITED ON HINDU NATION.
TO NAME AFEW IN CREATING ‘CLONED, TEST TUBE DEFORMED BABIES` AS GODS,
GODDESSES, DEITIES. NOW, BRAHMINS ARE IMPORTING SEGREGATIONIST DUMMIES
CALLED BRAHMIN PUJARIES!’
ABOUT BRAHMINS:
Brahmins are Damn Ugly, Pale, Egg-Head Idiots, Pig Tail skin heads,
Honorable Beggars, Perpetual Farters, Tobacco Grass Snuffers, Blast
Sneezers, Infected with Bad Smell of Vaginosis, Full of Body Odor,
Triple Folded Extra-Size Pot Belly Ghee Swallowing B/astards. Brahmins
permanently destroyed and damaged India for several centuries. Now, is
time for us to stop these Idiots to cause any further damage to India?
Brahmins did direct and coerced Warrior Rajas to build Temples,
Mandirs, and Ashrams. Brahmins created a perpetual beggar Class,
perpetual Yogis and Sanyasees, perpetual caste system, perpetual class
systems, perpetual poverty and perpetual ‘Gossip Vedic Writers.`
WHAT A SORROWFUL SITUATION BRAHMINS PUT INDIA INTO FOR MANY
GENERATIONS. NO EXCUSES FOR THESE UGLY IDIOTS.
Did you ever see picture of Maha Rishi Brahmin Valmiki and his sweaty
ugly face? He is a biggest Idiot of all. Spit on him. He says he will
not fight if he sees Sigandi (person with male and female genitalia).
He is biggest fool; stupid should be thrown away all his teachings,
upanishads as rubbish and filthy gossip.
TWO: These Brahmins are masters in crude cloning. They cloned deformed
test tube babies such as creating monkey-head humans, elephant-head
humans, multi-eyed humans, multi-hand humans, multi-leg humans, Cow-
Head Humans, Fish Body Ladies, Snake Head Humans, other forms deformed
humans, etc. (see APPENDIX at the bottom of the page). What Brahmins
did is, they flooded sperms from humans, donkeys, elephants, dogs,
horses, pigs, fish, snakes and wild animals into and/or on to vagina’s
(p/ussy’s) of mostly in Warrior Rajas Spouses and in Brahmin Spouses.
The Brahmins called these deformed babies as Gods, Goddesses and
Deities (see Appendix-Maya in creating test tube Gods…) and their
recuperation (from deformities) centers as Temples, Mandirs. The
Brahmins called the ladies who were impregnated with mixed sperms and
given birth to deformed babies tittle them as Maha Pativratas, Gods
Mothers. The Brahmins who developed technique of deformed baby Gods
and care takers of deformed strange baby Gods, called as Pujari,
Bhattacharya, Vipranarayana, Sarmaji, Narayana, Satyananda,
Vivekananda, Tharma Gopal Peetam, Swamiji, etc.
Do not fool Mother Nature, you Brahmin ugly pigs!
THREE: These Brahmins are experts in milking sperm from different
animals to create millions of these strange deformed live babies as
Gods, Deities and Warriors.
FOURTH: These Brahmins forced rituals on Indian peasants, on Indian
common people, on Indian beggars and on Indian Rajas created a
‘inefficient society of blind faith prayer mongers’ and gossip
writings called Vedas, Upanishads. Those people who oppose Brahmins,
will be forced have sex with donkeys, dogs, horses, elephants, holy
cows and other animals as a punishment.
WHAT A PITY IT IS! HOW CRUEL IT IS! IT CAUSED PERMANENT DAMAGE IN
CREATING CLONED DEFORMED BABIES AS GODS, GODDESSES AND DEITIES AND
THEIR RECUPERATION CENTERS AS TEMPLES, MANDIRS!
BURY YOURSELF IN SELF-DIGGED MASS GRAVES TOU UGLY BRAHMIN PIGS! THE
CRIMES, ATRACITIES, CRUEL EXPERIMENTS ON HINDU NATION WILL LEAD YOU TO
SHAMEFUL DEATHS. YOU UGLY, BAD BREATHED, PALE EGG HEADS, NASTY COCONUT
HEADS, FOREHEAD STRIPED UGLY RACIST BRAHMIN IDIOTS!
11.PUJARIES:
QI: Why are we importing Ugly, Idiots with Strange Names (such as
Acharya Lingam, Swamiji, Sarmaji, Sastryji, Panditji, etc.), Dummy,
PotBelly Eggheads Ghee Swallow Pigs called Brahmins Pujaries from
India?
Q2: Why are we housing these Racist Idiots Brahmin Pujaries inside
Temple Complex?
Q3: Is this might cause loosing of non-profit organization status for
Indian Temples, Mandirs, by deliberately importing Brahmin Pujaries
who practice segregation, racism in India?
Q4: Why can’t we train some other caste men and women as Pujaries for
the sake of progress?
Q5: Why can’t we, address the dress codes, hair codes and forehead
stripe codes for Pujaries?
Q6: Why can’t we walk through temples wearing shoes, especially very
cold and sick times?
Q7: Why can’t we put some chairs inside temples, like in Christian
Churches, thereby everybody has a chance to pray these strange Granite
Deities?
GET REAL! CHANGE WITH TIMES! TAKE VERY SERIOUS; DO NOT FOLLOW OUT
DATED ANCIENT, PRIMITIVE. SEGRAGATIONISTIC INDIAN CUSTOMS WHICH ARE
BASED ON CASTE SYSTEM, CLASS SYSTEM, BEGGERISM ARE ALL CREATED BY
IDIATIC, UGLY, FOREHEAD STRIPED GOSSIP STRANGERS CALLED BRAHMINS.
SOLUTIONS:
The following things should be implemented to Survival of India as
A cultured Nation in 21ST Century and beyond.
a) These Ugly Brahmins and their ugly Brahmin spouses, brothers and
should now have to be f/ucked deep and hard by different religion and
caste people. Now Brahmins have handsome children, instead of ugly
pale wheatish children.
b) Stop importing ugly, backward and unhygienic Brahmin Pujaries from
India for celebrating these clannish rituals in temples.
c) Find residence for racist Brahmin Pujaries in roadside tents.
d) Train women and men who want to be Pujaries.
e) Stop failed living together broken marriages. And encourage divorce
as alternative and allow remarrying widows and widowers. These people
can live normal life, fulfilling their physical and mental desires.
For example, Orissa cyclone victims who lost their husbands and wives
should be allowed to remarry;
e) Somehow, we have to cure centuries of permanent damage such as
Writing Story Books called Vedas and Upanishads liking these test tube
deformed babies as Gods, Goddesses.Thease Brahmins single handedly
created a professional beggerism, professional caste system. These
Brahmins inflicted a permanent scar on Indian people and for its
culture.
f) These Brahmins created an ugly past and the atrocities such as Maya
in Creating Gods onto Indian people and on its culture.
g) These Idiotic Brahmins are invading Internet, shamelessly asking
for ‘Brahmins only`` pairings. These ugly fools should be stopped!
APPENDIX
CRUDE CLONING TECHNOLOGIES DEVELOPED BY BRAHMINS
Maya in Creating Cloned Test Tube Gods, Goddesses, Deities and
Warriors
(Modern term for Cow Dung Bowl Babies is called ``Test Tube Babies``)
Crude Cloning Techniques started by ancient Brahmins to create Holy
Gods, Holy Goddesses, Holy Deities and warriors.
Method 1: Maha Holy Cow Dung Bowl Technique 1:
Objective: to create multi-headed humans, multi-handed humans,
elephant-headed humans (Ganesh), multi-eyed humans (Siva), Monkey-
headed humans (Hunuman), cow-headed human (gomata), Fair skinned twins
(Lava, Kusa)
Procedure: Fill Fresh Cow Dung Bowl, with Mixture of Sperms from
monkeys, donkeys, dogs, elephants, even Serpents and wild animals.
Then stick this soft cow dung bowl containing ‘mixture of Sperms’ into
and on to Vaginas (p/ussy’s) of Brahmins Ladies and Rajas Ladies.
These Ladies, here on wards called as Pativratas, should have to lie
in cool and cold beds until dried Cow Dung Bowl drops out of their
Vaginas (p/ussy). This may take at long as four to eight weeks. These
Pativratas are not allowed to have sex with any body for several
months. After few months of pregnancy, they deliver these strange
deformed babies. Completely this activity is taken over by Brahmins
and names these strange babies as Gods came from Heaven and recommend
rituals.
Method 2: Maha Holy Cow Dung Bowl Technique 2:
Objective: To create Single-headed black and white handsome humans
like ‘cheese stealing black skinned Gopala Krishna, white skinned
Lakshana, and warriors like black skinned Rama…’
Procedure: Fresh cow dung bowl, filled with Mixture of Sperms from
specially chosen fair skinned Brahmins men (only), mixed with Veebhudi
(white clay) and then proceed with the same procedure as described in
Method 1. Immediately after these strange deformed children born,
Brahmins called them as Gods, Goddesses, Deities came from Heaven and
rituals will follow.
Note: Of course, some deaths did occur. These Pativratas have given
ceremonial burials. These Cloning Techniques are so dangerous and
Bizarre, Brahmins kept these sperm collecting methods as God`s
technique, and kept them as holy sacred. So Brahmins cover these
`Making of Gods` to avoid their deaths.
THESE PROCESSES ARE SICKENING. WHAT A PITY BRAHMINS PUT INDIAN SOCIETY
THROUGH THESE HORRIBLE HUMAN EXPERIMENTATIONS IN ‘CREATING TEST TUBE
DEFORMED BABIES ARE CALLED GODS AND THEIR RECUPARATION CENTERS ARE
CALLEDTEMPLES’. THIS IS A SHAMEFUL CRIME!
FOOD FOR THOUGHT
BRAHMINS POISONED AND BURIED THE HINDUISM AND THE HINDU CULTERE.
BRAHMINS CALLED THESE CLONED TEST TUBE DEFORMED SICK BABIES AS GODS,
GODDESSES AND DEITIES AND RECUPERATION (CAUSED BY DEFORMITIES) CENTERS
AS TEMPLES, MANDIRS. THEY CREATED A CLASS AND CASTE SYSTEM, CREATED A
PERMANENT PROSTITUTE CLASS, BEGGARS CLASS AND MANY MORE CLASS
CATAGORIES WHICH ARE NOTHING BUT ATRACITIES ON HINDU DESAM, SHAMEFUL
EVEN TO MENTION.
PLEASE UTTER OM OM OM OM HARI HARI HARI HARI AND RING THE BELL.
FINAL WORDS OF WISDOM
If you are not in agreement and not happy with the truth, still proud
of being Brahmin and Brahmin Culture, it is time for you to have
Valmiki shower, namely shitt, clean, drink, and bath, drown in middle
of dirty unsanitary Ganges. This may lead you to Hell for Heaven sake!
HARI HARA! HARI HARA! OM OM
NOTE
Please, Please request your Brahmin parents, close relatives and
family tree people ``not to write a Gossip Epic book on Vedik Linking
of these pitiful drowning deaths of sinful ugly Brahmins in muddy
Ganges``. RAMA RAMA HARE KRISHNA, KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE!
Please Read Maha Mantra; Vedic Revealings; Real Songs of Ishwara
http://www.chowk.com/ilogs/72351/32808
The Rediscovery of India Psychoanalyzing the Psychoanalyst
Thursday, 20. December 2007 - 10:07 PM
I generally avoid reading Ashis Nandy. Not because he cannot write in
plain English, but because his writings defy sense in any language. To
give the devil its due, I decided to give this a try. Not only did it
confirm all my suspicions of the psychoanalyst but scarred me off him
forever.
Every secularist worth anything is infuriated at Modi’s enduring
popularity, which defies their mountainous analyses aimed at
demolishing him. Their solution: pile on more analyses. Ashis Nandy
operates in the same mould although I wouldn’t call him a mainstream
secularist. His only claim to fame is his star credentials as an
eminent clinical psychologist writing magnum opuses that nobody reads
or cares about.
Before that, a glance at the mountain of Secular Analyses on Gujarat
since 2002: initially Modi was a mass murderer, maniac, Nazi, Fascist…
inspired by a murderous ideology…he wouldn’t win the elections because
he didn’t have any economic development to his credit, etc. But he won
spectacularly… so what, hate-based vote harvesting would take him only
so far…now that he has demonstrated his development credentials, they
tried an "expose" of sorts that strangely lost steam mid-river…
These tomes of mountainous nonsense are bounteous variants of exactly
one strand: demonize Modi using any device at any cost. Fiction is
Fact. Hate speech is free speech. Ashis Nandy adds another pebble to
that mountain using the same devices refined to perfection with the
fire of psychological prowess.
As an intellectual nobody cares about, Nandy, like that other sham-
historian, Guha, targets Gujaratis as a specific race. The reason is
right at hand: how dare they re-elect a "dangerous" man like Modi.
More alarmingly, it looks like the election this year is again loaded
in his favour. The Fearless Paper admits this in its "exit" polls.
Ashis Nandy froths forth these outrageous gems:
Gujarati middle class is at the moment having a love affair with
hatred and paranoia. Like Bengali babus and Kashmiri Muslims, they
were traditionally classified as non-martial by the British Empire and
they smarted under that classification. Even when they themselves do
not embrace violence, they vicariously enjoy it. They enjoy it even
when the violence is directed towards them. In Surat city there’s now
a statue of Shivaji, who sacked Surat more than once! Modi has tapped
into that self-hatred of the Gujarati middle class and the sanction
for violence that flows from it [...] Modi knows how to keep the
middle class captive—through rhetoric, fear and anxiety. He knows
only too well that his success lies in keeping that fear and anxiety
alive. Thanks to the dramatic way he broke the threshold of violence
in a society where the tolerance of violence has always been low,
Gujaratis have begun to feel heroic. Modi has given them the vicarious
pleasure of participating in violence, even while maintaining a
certain distance from it. That is why the Gujarati middle class has
become so hostile to any criticism of the present political culture of
Gujarat. In many ways it’s a sick culture.
I’m not sure what propels people like Nandy to pen such self-righteous
absurdity. That passage is so horrid that it defies dissection by the
might of its sheer preposterousness. How does Nandy characterize an
entire race or class of people with no basis in reality? Has he
psychoanalyzed all Gujaratis? Does he have their recorded admission
that they love violence because they hate themselves? Is an act of
violence always rooted in self-hatred? Isn’t it reasonable that the
tit for tat principle also has a place in human behaviour? Or is
Nandy’s mass psychoanalysis of Gujaratis a result of his visible
hatred of Modi? Would he praise these selfsame Gujaratis if Modi loses
this election that they have "seen sense"?
However, in mentioning Shivaji, Nandy slightly slips off the mask he’s
wearing: if you like Shivaji, you suffer from acute self-hatred. More
importantly, there’s no evidence that Shivaji attacked Surat for
racist reasons, which is the context of Nandy’s mention of Shivaji in
this article. Nandy would do well to reopen his school history
textbooks and read up on the Battle of Surat.
Nothing warrants Nandy to single out Gujaratis on the subject of
tolerance of violence. At other places, Nandy has spouted the same
cliches of "how the land that gave Gandhi has become soo violent."
Gujarat has also given us Sardar Patel, who restored Hyderabad to
India using violent methods. I’d like to know how Nandy characterizes
him. Also, Nandy’s choice of words is quite interesting: sick
culture.
Ashis Nandy writes as though the entire personality of Narendra Modi
is his personal fiefdom. He seems to think the psychological playwords
at his command give him this right. To bolster his "assessment" of
Modi, he culls imaginary crap about the RSS and the dreaded Hindu
Nationalist ideology. I’ll examine only the most funny nonsense in
this selection:
Modi began his life as an RSS pracharak and the RSS is typically a
product of middle-class India: it involves a rejection of both folk
Hinduism and ordinary Hindus. Built on Hindu self-hatred and hostility
to what is seen as the disorganised, folksy,anarchic, non-rational
style of Hinduism that pervades village India,the RSS and the Hindu
nationalists might make compromises with it for the sake of electoral
politics, but like their alter-ego, the Leninist left, they presume
that an enlightened middle class of partly deracinated Hindus will act
as the vanguard and lead the Hindus towards an European-style nation-
state. It is not an accident that the founding fathers of the RSS were
mostly non-believers or weak believers. And even the present
leadership of the RSS is not known for its love of Hinduism as it is;
they want to retool Hinduism and make it more like Islam and
Christianity.
Questions for the clinical psychologist:
•What exactly is folk Hinduism?
•Who are "ordinary" Hindus? Are there any extra-ordinary Hindus, or is
that extraordinary Hindus?
•What is Hindu self-hatred? Why do Hindus hate themselves if they
indeed do? How did you deduce that? How can you prove that?
•Again, just show me exactly one sign that defines folksy, anarchic,
non-rational style of Hinduism? While you are at it, please also share
your wisdom on the rational style (sic) of Hinduism?
•How is the RSS an "alter-ego" of the Leninist Left? More importantly,
as a clinical psychologist, do organizations have egos, and alter
egos? Or did you use "alter ego" merely as a literary flourish?
The last line is absolutely hilarious. If anything, the RSS is an
object of derision precisely because it lacks both the intellectual
polish and the language to defend itself. The RSS is yet to publish a
reasoned critique of both Islam and Christianity close to something
done by scholars outside organizational frameworks.
Ashis then shares a closely-guarded, personal experience that freezes
your blood. I believe that experience has led the him to treat Modi’s
personality as his fief:
I first met Narendra Modi over 15 years ago when I interviewed him. As
a clinical psychologist, my interview went into his inner life, but it
would be unprofessional to go into that. However, I can say this much:
I found him dangerous. He was just getting into politics then and as a
young RSS pracharak, his ideology,especially his almost paranoid
perception of Muslims, was neat, earnest and frightening. I fear the
earnestness of ideologues, and the incorruptible among them are the
worst. It’s a disastrous combination:incorruptibility and earnestness.
They will self-destruct rather than compromise on ideology.
What this learned academician never reveals is whether Modi met him as
a patient meets a doctor. That’s because Nandy uses the word
unprofessional. So did Nandy interview him as a practising,
professional psychologist? Or did he seek Modi’s interview on a
different pretext, which he doesn’t reveal here? What does that tell
us about Nandy? He then builds on that premise and spews more
psychological stuff:
Modi’s attitude to Muslims is understandable. His ideology, perhaps
like all ideologies, has to setup a fall guy or anti-self. And that
anti-self defines him.
Sorry, but what the fuck is an anti-self? Is it the antonym of a pro-
self? Having "proved" that Modi suffers from psychological problems of
Himalayan magnitude, Nandy makes a lofty-sounding assertion that:
All of us have a bit of Modi in us, but we don’t acknowledge it. The
ruthlessness you see in him…
As evidence, what does he present in the entire 3-page article?
Nothing apart from terms that nobody knows or understands.
I’m aware Ashis Nandy is highly regarded in some (?) circles as having
achieved the pinnacle of success in psychology. This article is proof
that a lifetime of studying the inner workings of other people’s minds
leads to undiagnosable hallucination.
Categories: Commentary, Indian Politics, Media Watch
Tags: Commentary, History, Indian Politics, Media Watch, Pseudo
Secularism Hall of Shame, Society & Culture
30 comments
zhagdoo
20. December 2007 - 10:59 PM
its an interesting read.
shows on what flawed presumptions the whole article of the so called
psychologist is based on.
currently it is a trend, especially in english media to come up with
their on theories about gujarat and gujarati people without thinking
twice as to what are they saying. these people no nothing about the
culture, background and history of gujarat and keeps on condemning one
of the smartest business class of Bharat just for their liking of
Modi.
http://www.zhagdoo.com/2007/11/16/gujarats-history-of-violence/
kaunteya
20. December 2007 - 11:12 PM
Dude- u rock !
I read that article in Outlook (where else?) and was disturbed by the
use of his “sickening” words.
I love Gujaratis and have been associated with them all my life. As
neighbours, as friends, u name it.
And they are a wonderful community. Extremely hard working, very
enterprising. Bombay will become Patna without them – and this comes
from a hard core Maharashtrian like me.
Its because that Gujaratis worked so hard Mumbai has reached where it
has. Mumbai owes a lot to this enterprising community.
Ashis Nandy should rather psychoanyalse his own State of Bengal.
Mayuresh Gaikwad
20. December 2007 - 11:27 PM
The tone and words used in the article sound like it has been written
for some journal on advanced psychology, rather than for a rag-tag
outlook to be read by the ordinary non-enlightened folk
Also, I never realize how can anyone term the RSS as communal, forget
the shit-load of crap written by Nandy.
Assuming Nandy is a Bengali (I know some people who go by the title
“Nandy” are bengalis), I want to say: How can a state who gave us
freedom fighters like Netaji Subhash C. Bose, thinkers like Tagore,
etc. give us crap like Nandy who can neither be a fighter, nor a
clear thinker.
anonymous coward
21. December 2007 - 12:17 AM
The Sivaji reference is particularly hilarious. Wouldnt the statue of
Sivaji fit in with the supposed Hindutva sympathies of the Gujjus ?
Ghost Writer
21. December 2007 - 12:54 AM
You are quite correct on the Psycho-babble that Nandy spews. It is
enough in the English media to merely pretend to be an expert, use
technical jargon – and when jargon is not available – just use English
that is hard to understand. In no time, you are transformed into an
expert.
On the racial analysis of all of Gujarat, we can actually go further
back than the British denomination of “Martial Classes”. The name
Gujarat is said to be a derivative of Gurjar (alternative Gujjar,
Gujar). By the same British scholars the Gurjars were a tribe that
‘migrated’ to the Indian subcontinent from Central Asia. All Central
Asian tribes were – hold your breath – martial!
While on self-hate, it is noteworthy that Nandy grew up a Christian. I
wonder how much of the converts self-hate he carries.
I have written elsewhere why the press hates Modi, but will present
here as well
1- He has made Muslim collective bargaining with the state using vote-
banks irrelevant. In it’s earlier avtaar the BJP (notably Advani and
Vajpayee) would plead only to be seen as ‘true-secularists’ as ask for
the Muslim vote. The ‘liberal’ press in India admits to only one
fundamentalism as being all right - any variance from there is hard to
handle
2- Modi combines for the first time, conservative economic principles
(wrongly called “Economic Reform” in India) with mass appeal. In the
past only one has been true – you could have mass appeal only by
resorting to socialist sloganeering. In his deeply Hindu garb, even
NTR could not manage that and had to resort to populism.
The press in India being all crypto-socialists who want India to
remain poor, they cannot help being hysterical.
3- Modi in a recurrent manner reminds the press-people of their
failures – again and again. It started in 2002 and has never stopped.
It is funny to hear the likes or Burka Dutt rant that “Modi will win
the election but IRREPARABLY DAMAGE HIS PARTY. So much good English –
all wasted on nonsensical idiocy.
jujung
21. December 2007 - 3:36 AM
There is no doubt that RSS wants to islamicise/christianise hinduism,
and it’s succeeding partially.
Hemant
21. December 2007 - 4:19 AM
Really enjoyed your analysis of this article and espically of this
Nandy guy. Keep up the good work.
Ot
21. December 2007 - 4:57 AM
There is a lot of stereotyping of Gujaratis going on now in the media,
and leading the charge are commies and fellow travellers.
It is claimed that adversity brings out the best, but as far as
leftwing and semi-leftwing radicals are concerned, adversity brings
out their nastiest traits. Frustrated leftwingers tend to let their
guard down and let their slip show, as is happening now. Beneath their
mask of urbanity and sophistication, they are as petty-minded and
prejudiced as the semi-literate villager, except that the villager
probably doesn’t carry his prejudice with malice. The Nandy types are
extending their hatred for Modi into hatred for the Gujarati (Hindu),
because it is really the latter who is frustrating them.
Nandy’s paranoia shows in the irony-challenged nature of his writing.
Sample this: “Modi’s ideology, especially his almost paranoid
perception of Muslims, was neat, earnest and frightening”. And in the
very next sentence: “I fear the earnestness of ideologues, and the
incorruptible among them are the worst”. If Irony bit this fruitcake
in the butt, he would perhaps blame it on the Gujaratis.
kaangeya
21. December 2007 - 7:49 AM
This is a very bad article and as psychobabble goes it is many times
worse than the worst bakwas produced by the likes of Prahalad Kakkar.
In other countries a person like Nandy would be confined to the Op Ed
pages, but in India with our trashed up culture, Nandy, Guha, Sen
etc., serve as full-time scholars. The article is trashy from the go –
where Nandy erroneously clubs Modi, Gowda, Lallu, and Mulayam among
the ‘marginalised’. What a crock. The Yadav consolidation or creation
of a Yadav clan in modern times parallels similar movements among the
Thevars, Nadaras, Mundas (Birsa Munda) and others which saw them gain
political ascendency some time in the ’50s also taking over the
patron’s role in “managing” Hindu practice. And what can you say about
Deve Gowda a fellow clansman of Kempe Gowda, founder of BendhaKaluru?
Chakravarty
21. December 2007 - 10:39 AM
Nandy’s family converted to xtianity, so his loathing of Hindus is
understandable.
Chakravarty
21. December 2007 - 10:42 AM
Ashis Nandy should rather psychoanyalse his own State of Bengal.
Unlike the gujjus who are putting up with the shit thrown at them with
dignified silence, my fellow bongs, especially those of “secular” and
“liberal” persuasion will start screeching and screaming if they come
under such attack.
shadows
21. December 2007 - 2:44 PM
Sandeep,
Nice one..
Going by some of his conclusions.. I wonder where Ashis Nandy got his
degree from? Does he have a degree in Psychology or English ?!!
By the way, I visited Gujarat last month
– CNG implemented in Amdavad and Gandhinagar (Gandhinagar happens to
be the greenest city of India) . Amdavad which was one of the most
polluted places in India now has much cleaner air than Pune, Lonavla
or Mumbai.
– I dont remember even a single powercut in Amdavad in a week !! (No,
the folks I was with did not have an invertor)
– Amazing roads.. though there is a traffic problem, but you will
hardly find potholes on major roads. Even in areas called “mini
Pakistans” in Amdavad (where muslims rioted carrying nawaz sharif
posters during Kargil war). So much for discrimination against muslims
in bad bad Gujarat…
– If Modi concentrates on getting investments in Finance and IT
industries to the state, it is one of the best states in India to live
in.
Ravi
21. December 2007 - 3:05 PM
Since this blog is so particular about facts I would like to see few
things checked. Is Mr. Nandy a “clinical psychologist” Is he a
“psychoanalyst”? In the heyday of psychoanalytic movement everyone
with a theory was a psychoanalyst. As a psychoanalyst I am sure Mr
Nandy is certainly aware that the 70’s fashion of stereotyping on the
basis of national character or racial traits has been proven to be
baseless.I guess Mr. Nandy was so busy publishing his intellect that
he forgot to update himself in his chosen feild basking in the
“clinical psychologist” glory that the english media seems to have
bestowed on him.
I do not want to dignify his comments on Narendra Modi. Instead I have
a nice suggestion for Mr. Nandy. Get analysed. that is aprerequiste
for training in psycho analysis. That might give you abit of
understanding about why you hate your own culture and your own people
(Parental neglect and anger against your mother is my pet theory)
Ot
21. December 2007 - 11:35 PM
Both Comrade Jujung and Ashis Nandy are concerend about the alleged
attempts to Islamize Hinduism. Now, for argument’s sake, assume this
is true. I don’t understand why that should be a matter of concern.
Comrade Beijing, Ashis Nandy, Comrade Thapar and a host of others who
believe that Hinduism should be preserved in what they think is its
pristine form should tell us what exactly is so loathsome about Islam
that becoming Islam-like is a bad thing. Moreover, I assume their
distaste for Islam and Christianity extends into detesting conversions
into these religions as well, for converting to Islam or Christianity
ought to be a worse prospect than Islamizing or Christianizing
gradually.
I also notice that Comrade Beijing and Nandy are NOT worried about
Hinduism becoming communism-like. But that is the prospect that
worries me most, because Communism is an ideology that murdered
millions.
socal
22. December 2007 - 12:49 AM
Reading Nandy’s jeremiad it is becoming increasingly clear that
secularists are not only frustrated at Gujarat’s voters but also
quivering at the prospect of the inevitable- Modi’s ascendancy in BJP
and his ultimate elevation to Prime Ministership of India. As much
impossible as it looks now, it will become irrestible once the
nationalist base pushes for it, which it obviously will after the
results are out.
Besides, Modi’s take no prisoners attitude–fortunately unlike Advani
and Vajpayee, be it with “communal socialist” welfare state, special
interest group pandering or the more stifling grip of entrenched
elites means the secular monopoly is in danger. It is this that most
unsettles the Nandys and Burkas of this world.
socal
22. December 2007 - 12:54 AM
Reading Nandy’s jeremiad, it is becoming increasingly clear that
secularists are not only frustrated at Gujarat’s voters but also
quivering at the prospect of the inevitable- Modi’s ascendancy in
BJP and his ultimate elevation to Prime Ministership of India. As much
impossible as it looks now, it will become irrestible once the
nationalist base pushes for it, which it obviously will after the
results are out.
Besides, Modi’s take no prisoners attitude–fortunately unlike
Advani and Vajpayee, be it with “communal socialist†welfare
state, special interest group pandering or the more stifling grip of
entrenched elites means the secular monopoly is in danger. It is this
that most unsettles the Nandys and Burkas of this world.
socal
22. December 2007 - 12:54 AM
Sandeep, can you please remove the duplicate post. Thanks.
Ot
22. December 2007 - 3:02 AM
Ghost Writer,
Happened to see your comment late. Excellent analysis, except for a
minor quibble. The statement “press in India is crypto-socialist”
needs to be qualified further. The ownership of the media is no longer
socialist, barring the dogma-driven The Hindu group. The media has
benefitted immensely from the reforms of the past decade and half, and
will continue to benefit from free market economics. At a time when
its major source of ad revenue was government tender notices and other
such parasitical crap, it made sense to be “socialist”. But today even
The Hindu — oped page rhetoric notwithstading — bends over backwards
to please business, as in fact it has done by issuing an apology to
Kroloskars when they threatened to withdraw their ads with The Hindu
over some tiff with the paper.
But it is true that 1) a good number of people who work in the media
are commie, because this is a matter of legacy, and discriminatory
recruiting and 2) owners of media entitiesare by and large in the
Congress camp, and they have a compact of sorts with their leftwing
editorial staff that lets the latter bash Conngress’ rivals but not
the Congress. Why are media owners in Congress’ pockets? This again is
a matter of years of conditioning and historical legacy. This is the
loyalty of the wife who submits to her husband’s beating and abuse
when he’s drunk or angry but is also used to being pampered or bribed
to give him what he wants (sex, perhaps).
Chris
22. December 2007 - 3:17 AM
Firstly, Nandy is not difficult to understand he is an academic.
I believe what he is referring to is a trend named strategic
syncretism. The RSS has attempted to find in Hinduism several of the
most prominent elements of British colonial ideology in order to
defend against the damage inflicted to their egos by colonial
domination
Chris
22. December 2007 - 3:28 AM
Ashis Nandy got his degree from one of the most prestigious
psychoanalytic faculties in the world, at Stuttgart. He is also a
Fellow of the Institute for Advanced Studies in Humanities, University
of Edinburgh among many other accolades. I am sure his credentials
surpass yours by anyones estimation
kaunteya
22. December 2007 - 3:29 AM
http://www.rediff.com/news/2007/dec/21gujpoll.htm
Inspite of all this Modi still looses the election, shame on the
people.
Chakravarty
22. December 2007 - 11:25 PM
Psychoanalysis is a pseudo science, pyschoanalysis should be read for
entertainment, it does not provide any meaningful insight.
Chakravarty
22. December 2007 - 11:28 PM
“I believe what he is referring to is a trend named strategic
syncretism. ”
What he is doing here is bullshitting (of which pyschoanalyzing is a
special case).
kaangeya
23. December 2007 - 4:17 AM
Chris,
I am sure his [Nandy's] credentials surpass yours by anyones
estimation Chris does not equal anyone. Chris = Chris. Whether Nandy
understands psychoanalysis (forget its pseudoscientific basis) or not,
it is certain that you understand nothing.
Chandra
23. December 2007 - 10:58 AM
“but what the fuck is an anti-self?”
That was good!!
Nandy's analysis
24. December 2007 - 11:06 AM
Does Nandy talk about self hating hindus because he is one ? Is this
called projection ?
Chetan
25. December 2007 - 10:51 PM
The problem with Nandy is that he keeps regurgitating the same
arguments over and over again. So he assumes that his audience is
aware of his ideas and he just needs to apply those ideas in the
context of the column he is writing.
I wouldn’t comment on the psychoanalysis aspect since I don’t know
about it much myself. However, his books are thought-provoking. You
will find answers to questions you posed:
* What exactly is folk Hinduism?
* Who are “ordinary” Hindus? Are there any extra-ordinary Hindus, or
is that extraordinary Hindus?
* What is Hindu self-hatred? Why do Hindus hate themselves if they
indeed do? How did you deduce that? How can you prove that?
* Again, just show me exactly one sign that defines folksy, anarchic,
non-rational style of Hinduism? While you are at it, please also share
your wisdom on the rational style (sic) of Hinduism?
* How is the RSS an “alter-ego” of the Leninist Left? More
importantly, as a clinical psychologist, do organizations have egos,
and alter egos? Or did you use “alter ego” merely as a literary
flourish?
I am not suggesting that this is the right explanation. However, Nandy
believes that early Hindu reformers such as Raja Ram mohan Roy, Rev.
Lal Behari Day, Dayanand Saraswati, in general the Bengali Bhardralok
of the 19th Century were influenced by West and tried to Christianise
Hinduism by trying to mould it in a more monotheistic monolithic
religion with everyone following the same philosophy/rituals and
having a central authority etc. He contrasts these with Ishwarchandra
Vidyasagar and and Dwarakanath Vidyabhusan. These men aimed to reform
Hindu Society from within, hence they differed from both the Brahmo
Samaj liberals and Gaudiya Samaj conservatives. These men found
mythological stories and thus justifications for widow remarriage etc.
as opposed to the liberals who transplanted European notions onto
Hinduism using laws which interfered with the practice of Hinduism
during the era.
Nandy says that these reformers were embarrassed by the folksy side of
Hinduism which was rife with superstition, more concerned with the
rituals of the Shakti sect rather than the philosophic side of the
Vedas etc. According to Nandy, the everyday Hindu follows his own
heart in matters of religion and rarely if ever involves himself/
herself with the philosophical study of Vedas or Upanishads or
Brahmanas. The distinction between Vedanta and vishista Advaita
philosophy are not what the ‘ordinary’ Hindu is concerned with.
Instead ‘ordinary’ Hindus will be more concerned with folk tales from
the religious books and draw a lot of moral lessons from Hindu
mythology. This was something the 19th century bhadralok had contempt
for and hence they were self-hating Hindus who tried to forge their
own religion to the one they admired (a monotheistic, monolithic
religion having centralised authority; Christianity)
Anyways, Nandy further claims (a claim many anti-Hindutva writers have
made before) that because of the diversity involved in the practices
of Hinduism across India, it was difficult to forge a national
identity using religion. Since the earlier revolutionaries such as
Savarkar studied in Europe they were taken in by how religion could be
used to forge national identities across Europe. (As an aside Nandy is
a great admirer of Savarkar. He believes that RSS has twisted his
ideas to suit their ends.) Savarkar and Hegdewar were atheists/
agnostics who transplanted ideas of European revolutionaries such as
Giuseppe Mazzini onto the Hindu populace in order to forge a national
identity based on religion. Savarkar and Hegdewar were rationalists
having contempt for superstition and rituals of Hinduism and they
tried to highlight the martial side, more of the rational side of the
philosophic Hinduism which was limited in appeal and only the
intellectuals were acquainted with. About the Leninist alter ego this
is what Nandy means: The founders of RSS were influenced by European
revolutionaries, they were rationalists, atheists, had disdain for
practices of their religion, were influenced by ideas of modernity and
were willing to use violent means to achieve their ideals which were
not resonant with the masses and majority practitioners of their own
religion.
Anyways, I have taken up enough space. I would like to iterate that I
have tried to present Nandy’s ideas as I understand them by reading
two of his books and many of his articles online. If you find them
illogical or raise someone’s hackles here because of his terming Arya
Samaj founder as a self-hating Hindu trying to Christianise Hinduism,
it is him you need to take issue with, not me.
BTW, Sandeep I don’t know whether you are aware of this guy Sid Harth
who used to spew venom at Hindutva sympathisers on Society Culture
India Marathi forums. That guy, though admittedly, not your
ideological peer is a scholar on Savarkar. I haven’t come across
anyone on the Internet who has studied Savarkar and his writings the
way this guy has. He and Nandy share some of the views on Savarkar.
Atlantean
31. December 2007 - 11:27 AM
Or is Nandy’s mass psychoanalysis of Gujaratis a result of his
visible hatred of Modi?
As someone who knows a thing or two about Psychology, let me tell you
these:
1. There is nothing called “Mass Psychoanalysis.”
If there were any empirical studies which showed that Gujaratis suffer
from self hatred, the anti-Modi media would’ve let us know it already.
This is armchair scholarship – conclusions based purely on subjective
personal opinion, not objective empirical findings.
2. Psychoanalysis as a scientific tool has long been discredited and
is today considered pseudoscience. In the United States, Ashish Nandy
would’ve been a psychologist of the lowest standard.
Before the advent of Behaviorism on the scene in the 1950s,
Psychoanalysists enjoyed a lot of respect. There was this aura about
them – as if they are Gods or something – because their “science” was
new, different and very interesting. Maybe Nandy still lives in that
era.
Psychoanalysis is discredited today because the theoretical basis of
Psychoanalysis cannot be falsified – meaning the claims that are made
by it are not testable empirically.
It is a bit like Astrology. Acc. to Astrology, certain combinations
and alignments of heavenly bodies cause changes in human behaviour.
For us, there’s no way of testing these claims in an experimental
setting because we lack control over positions and movements of
heavenly bodies.
Similarly, it is not quite possible to observe, measure and control
things like sex and aggression drives objectively.
3. Even when they themselves do not embrace violence, they vicariously
enjoy it. They enjoy it even when the violence is directed towards
them.
What rubbish! Nandy is basically talking about repression. Acc. to
this pseudoscience, human beings have two basic drives – sex and
aggression. These drives come from the immoral Id and are balanced by
the moral Super Ego. The control between the two is exercised by the
Ego.
Impulses from the Id, which are painful when measured against the
moral standards in the Super Ego, are repressed by the Ego. It is a
defence mechanism. These repressed impulses enter the unconscious mind
and are not usually accessible to the conscious mind.
However, there are times at which these impulses burst their way into
consciousness through various ways. One way which is very popular is
“slip of the tongue.” Other ways in which these repressed impulses
manifest is abnormal behaviour, depression – improper psychological
condition basically.
So what Nandy is effectively saying is this – Gujaratis are humans,
they have aggression impulse, they have repressed it all along, now
they see Modi, they can set these natural aggression impulses free,
though only in a vicarious manner (by seeing violence.)
However, I still cant fathom how Gujaratis can satisfy their
aggression impulses by enjoying violence directed towards themselves!
What rubbish!
Joe Stalin
5. January 2008 - 10:32 AM
the question is of course why dont the psuedo secularists subject the
Islamo fascists to the same scrutiny ?
Sanket
7. December 2008 - 1:01 AM
1- Folk Hinduism is the term used to describe the religious practices
of ordinary people. In this, philosophical doctrines have no part and
people have no use for Ultimate Reality. There is no problem in
worshipping pirs. It is mostly ritual-oriented. The day-day religious
practices subsumes theological contradictions. A folk Hindu practioner
will worship both Vishnu and Shiva without thinking whether they are
one or different.
2- Ordinary Hindus are those who follow folk Hinduism
3- Gujratis were not classified as marital races by British.
4- Christians accept Christ as Son of God, Muslims accept Koran as the
final and eternal Word of God, Jews accept the Torah as God’s words
and themselves as God’s chosen people. Rational religions have a set
of common basic beliefs, and a common purpose.
http://www.sandeepweb.com/2007/12/20/psychoanalyzing-the-psychoanalyst/
Thread Tools Display Modes
#1 16th December 1999, 05:46 AM
Sid Harth Posts: n/a
Archive through December 16, 1999
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#13803
By [B]Sid Harth[/B] on [B]Thursday, December 16, 1999 - 12:16 am[/B]
My dear Mo,
I think I must show you more respect than I usually do. What Shomir
says is equally true. Leave those Muslim idiots alone. First of all,
they don't give a damn about your badgering them. As Shomir says, "why
bother?"
Your problem is that you cannot or would not accept the fact that
something or other in your personal life has triggered this anti
Muslim crusade. Not that I mind very much what you do and how you do
it. Someone has to stand up to those morons who care very little for
their women and molest their own children.
As I keep on insisting that you have to bring more evidence, not the
generalization, your typical style of hit and run job. There is pleîty
of evidence, factual and not hearsay evidence that Muslim world
society has to drop their anti Christian, anti Hindu, anti American,
anti each other, Sufis feuding with Sunnis and both maligning
Ahmediayas kind of internal wars.
If you have to be an effective commentator, I wish you all the
success, stay away from those Hindus, you hardly know them except
watching Bollywood DVDs which occupy your leisurely "Jewish princess'
day of luxury and laziness all mixed together.
The object of the criticism, as Shomir shows is to change the opinions
of the fence sitters. In my case I hit the Brahmins with all my power
because I truly believe that they are capable of reversing the course
of the future, if or even if they failed in the past, historically
speaking.
I do not like Shomir's lackadaisical style as he goes too much into
finding common grounds among the vocal critics as we both are. There
is not a fight among us. I respect Dr. Yashwant Malaiya, Mo, Shomir,
Nitin Batra, Kuldip Singh, Kunal Singh, Sunil, P K Kapila and bunch of
people who chose to speak up for whatever they believe in.
I stay away from their domains unless one of them seem to need a
freebee push or shove to stay on top. Your world and Shomir's world
are not two different, exclusive worlds as Shomir thinks they are.
After writing nearly four thousand articles in four years on subjects
as varying and as interesting as possible, I still cannot get at the
bottom of Brahmin malarkey.
They don't need proof. The proof that I fish out is in the public
domain. They have as much right as I have in putting a spin on the
burning issues of our times. They do. Dr. Jai Maharaj spews his Hindu
doggy poop and nobody in the RSS <FONT COLOR="ff0000">••••</FONT>
shoveling camp cares about his spamming techniques. Shomir has not
taken up a crusade to enlighten Dr. Jai Maharaj like rogues and
ruffians. Why is he picking on poor little Jewish princess having some
fun?
Mo, you son of a <FONT COLOR="ff0000">•••••</FONT>, I know you don't
like vulgarity, do write more than few sentences per post. Perhaps
some good may come out of it. Maybe Bollywood hot mama would play your
role in a fast track TV movie? You got potential but like your
penchant to stay in a groove, it ain't going anywhere.
Sid Harth..."One good thing about Mo is that he is not a bashful
Madonna hiding behind her bra, he puts that bra, bravado, brash and
trash undergarment, unmentionables right on top, outside for everyone
to see and admire."
--
[url]http://www.comebackkid.com/[/url]
Shomir wrote in message news:385772CD.4F395B0B*My-Dejanews.com...
Mo, with all due apologies to you, I must let you know that I find
some of your posts quite contradictory and I will try to point out
those instances. On the one hand you claim that you are an atheist,
from which I gather you do not believe in God or in religion. However,
from the numerous anti Muslim posts you put up every day, I see a lot
of prejudice in many of them. Some of them are informative, and I
learn many things, but realistically speaking do you honestly believe
that by continuously badgering the Muslim believers you are going to
change their minds? If that is not going to happen...why then hurt
their faith and belief? A true atheist does not believe in any God or
religion and does not take any sides in these stupid and petty issues.
I am also surprised that you spend so much time preaching the evils of
mono atheism on one side and glorifying idol and nature worship. I
certainly have no problem with your individual choice, as you are free
to practice anything, but by the same token you ought to extend that
same courtesy to the Muslims and others as well. I just wanted to
point out the contradictions in your statements.
Mo wrote:
Under Islamic law a Muslim man must convert his would be wife to Islam
and a Muslim woman is not allowed to marry a non Muslim man at all -
there are courageous people like Shah Rukh Khan and Arbaaz Khan who
have broken Islamic law and let their wives stay Hindu but in general
even people like Imran Khan have made them convert .
Shomir:
Do you see a problem with that? I don't. Someone who knowingly marries
a Muslim, has to accept the way Islam dictates... the other person if
he/she can not accept the conversion, should not get involved. No one
is forcibly proposing them to convert...are they?
Mo:
The nonsese statments she has been putting out - 'I have been thinking
of converting for three decades ! ( while screwing all these different
men and writing about it ) , the ugly black tent which Saudis and
Taliban flog women for not wearing is a 'liberating dress for women'
and other things too stupid to repeat shows that the real reason is
that she has to convert to marry her Muslim lover and she is trying to
defuse Hindu anger
Shomir: Unlike you, I don't care what religion she choses..it is her
freedom to do whatever she likes..she has not broken any laws...or
done something anti-social. If conversion make her happy, so be it.
What is our problem? People should let her alone, and not badger her
with stupid questions, that way we would not have to listen to her
garbage. Besides, if she enjoys wearing the "ugly black tent" as you
say, it is her choice.. isn't it?
Mo: There are cowardly pseudosecular pig dogs being born each minute
who think it doesnt matter . Have they never opened a newspaper and
seen what Islam is doing to the world . It can take large wealthy
countries like Saudi and Sudan and turn them into living hells with no
freedoms , women oppressed and stoned and whatnot according to
instructions from a non existent God .
Shomir: Here is another issue I need to discuss. Occasionally, you
will have a lot of rude things to say about secular people, calling
them names like "pseudo secular pig dogs". I do not understand this,
can't you honestly accept that there could be people in the world who
truly can be secular? People do not live for religion alone, there are
so many more important things in life. Why are you rude and
disrespectful to such people? You might not agree to their
philosophies, but you don't have to be rude, do you? In a democratic
society people have the choice to do as they wish, wouldn't you
agree?
Mo: Could a Jew be friends with a Nazi ? The Quran itself says that
Muslims are not to make friends with Jews or Christians and to slay
idol worshippers wherever they are to be found and most Islamic
countries are starting to become more fundamentalists in that sense .
It is a matter of survival for non Muslims -one can see ethnic
cleansing proceeding at a fast pace in Kashmir , Afghanistan ,
Kosovo , most of Middle East as these countries get rid of their
minorities .
Shomir: Mo, here is my problem with the above statement. You live in
England, and I am sure that you are under no threat of any Islamic
onslaught. The people who come to these NGs, are likewise all educated
and secure wherever they are. I doubt, if one single person here is
insecure in his/her faith, so all this shadow fighting against each
other hardly produces any result. The people who are really affected
in the countries you mentioned are not reading your "informative and
wise" posts, so they are not being influenced by them. I would much
rather trust the people to make their own judgments and decisions
about race, religion and things like that. Everyone knows what is good
for them, and I trust they will do whatever is necessary to take care
of themselves. realistically speaking, can you really help someone
being where you are?
Another claim you continuously make is that all your best friends are
Muslims. Do they know how much you hate their religion? How can you be
best friends with them holding so much grudge against their faith?
Aren't you being hypocritical?
Mo: There is an urgent need for ONIC ( Organisation of non Islamic
countries ) to hold and emergency meeting and decide what to do about
this problem . One solution might be to ban all conversions to Islam
until the offending passages that malign non Muslims are removed . The
Prophet himself removed 'satanic verses' ie those which praised the
female dieties -male monotheism cannot survive until it oppresses the
'inferior (4/34) women ' and stops the killing of those who want to
convert out of Islam .. if this is not done a gradually increasing
Islamic population is going to mean curtains for others..
Shomir: Back to your familiar theme, Islamic takeover of the world.
That is not going to happen my dear. The world is moving away from all
this religious bigotry at a very fast pace... lets discuss issues that
are more useful for the people in general. Issues that might add some
civility and dignity to the dialogue to help find ways to solve the
problems of the poor land of our birth.
http://hindustan.net/forums/showthread.php?s=b00506f33d8860cf716794b077478084&t=947
By Arjun Singh Malhotra on Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 05:22 pm:
Sid Harth,
spot on. You got it right on the first try.
By Sid Harth on Thursday, December 16, 1999 - 10:37 am:
M J Akbar cracked me up with his delightful critique of Pakistani,
pathetic
policies, palsy walsy, yeah, waltzy, as in series of prime ministers,
presidents, generals and military men in their starched uniforms
waltzing in
and waltzing out of sight, some leaving the stage and staged banana
republic
trials where they are banged, bruised, smashed, trashed, gang banged,
harangued and in many cases, simply hanged.
Pathetic seem to be a very innocuous state of affairs in Pakistan. A
country which never blossomed and wilted no matter how hard Mohammed
Ali
Jinnah willed it to take roots and grow into a tall and flowers and
fruit
laden mature shady tree. We see many such happy returns in India where
bunch
of nobodies vie for the top job and just as soon find themselves as
toppled,
tripped, tricked ex prime ministers.
In Pakistan they do a poor chop shop job on such political aspirants,
conspirators, connivers, common criminals and street hoodlums. The
magic of
the statehood has all but washed off. It did not take long fifty years
for
things to go wrong. Things were going off from the day one. Mohammed
Ali
Jinnah died in shame and in pain as what he received, according to his
own
words was mere empty shell, I mean a bomb kind of empty shell.
Hindus and Muslims fought together side by side temporarily
forgetting
their traditional enmity under a common national Congress flag. This
was not
a good omen for some wealthy and chhota nabobs. They wanted a share of
the
pie that they did not struggle to get. The cream of the political
movement
crop went straight to Pakistan without a penny's worth of investment
in
terms of planning, organizing, forecasting and preparing for the
eventual
separation shock, called in medical field as Post Natal Syndrome.
The country which is not a country and the people are not the people
in
Pakistan. The imaginary homogenous character played to the tune of
national
fervor was bunch of crock. The crooks surged ahead of the diplomats
and the
administrators and became the traitors to the dream of Jinnah. I am
glad
that Jinnah died so early after the independence as he would have
reneged on
his demand and opted for reunion of Pakistan and Hindu India. Things
were so
bad then and nothing has changed.
Such ticking time bomb, really ticking with atomic weapons galore and
enough crazy politicians, Muslim fundamental clergy in their black
cloaks,
separatists, Tribal Baluchi and refugee Afghani who don't want to go
back to
the hell where they came, rather slipped across the borders. The rich
landlords don't like the politicians who happen to take the side of
the
landless and jobless common street people as that is their meal ticket
but
accept bribes without ever thinking twice as to such dichotomy.
Zardari's wisecrack is a typical sentiment among the common man on
the
street. One has to sleep with politicians, businessmen, local and
central
authorities, banks and bazaar lords and masters in order to get
things
moving. Zardari's remark is bit odd as he was the one who wanted to
sleep
with any and all to facilitate her prime minister wife, Benazir Bhutto
to
sleep with accommodating politicians.
http://indiaculture.net/talk/messages/128/1540.html
chhotemianinshallah
off_world_beings
Fri, 01 Jul 2005 12:02:48 -0700
You are a skilled Pejorativition.
Find more at :
http://www.insult-o-matic.com/insults/?
yourname=Johnny&numinsults=5&mode=classic
--- In Fairfi...@yahoogroups.com, Jason Daniel <[EMAIL
PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Hari Om,
This is an Article by Sid Harth.
Of Sin, Schwing and Spin Doctors.
Friday, November 5, 1999 3:00 AM
Yours truly and fabulous brother of mine, darling of the don's
ding bats, your Zandewalan RSS ass lickers, Brahmin brat boy
brigade, California fornicating computer coolies, David Frawley
don't get along. That is the understatement of the century, make it
of the millenium.
This deluded dunce of my brother rather refer himself as Dr. David
Frawley, not by his new name as Vamdeva Shastri. This idiot is some
kind of doctor, his official page and official biography mentions
very little about what kind of doctor he is. Doctor of Umbrellas? Is
this a case of one fake and fucked up, phony baloney doctor like
our 'Hawaiidiot,' Dr. Jay Maharaj, which name and attached Dr.
appellation both are fake?
This idiot runs an empire more like a drug peddling tent, from his
New Mexico headquarters and said to be the new Hindu messiah with a
zeal of legendary Zorro. I wish this nincompoop a long and
prosperous life and a strength of a horse, a legendary horse that
used to maraud the countryside in ancient India as part of ritual
called, "ashvamedha."
A strong and little wanton white horse used to be part of that war
mongering Aryan ritual under the guise of Hindu religion. Chhota
kings wanting some kicks and territory of the neighboring peaceful
kings, and satraps used to gather his warriors and perform this
ritual. The burning of lot of clarified butter and some other
valuable ingredients to propitiate the god of gods, 'Indra, Agni,
Marut and bunch of other ferocious gods' was the fun and harmless
part.
The nasty part began with releasing this wanton horse and
following him to the places the horse decided to visit and challenge
the owner, king of that territory territory to accept the
sovereignty and suzerainty of the Ashvamedha initiator. This method
of taking from others what essentially was not theirs is the
celebrated Aryan Hindu bad habit. All legal and all moral, perhaps
all spiritual at that time.
This "white" ceremonial beast, Dr. David Frawley, I call him
fondly, Fru-Fru "Frawd" Frawley. The Fru-Fru part refers to his
stomach contents, rather loosy goosey, gobbledigooky, sour contents
in a force and style as witnessed with a white man consuming large
quantity of south Indian curry, sambaram, perhaps rightfully claimed
as food for the devil, sets your asshole on fire. The 'Frawd' part
is not a misspelling of fraud, maybe it is done in artistic style,
little rhyming goes a long way in my style of writing.
> This New Mexico rattle snake is upto no good. Like all other
flower children of his time, David followed his tortured self to
India to become a groupie of one or another self styled gurus.
Before he did such a holy pilgrimage, David obtained a
correspondence course in Vedic astrology, perhaps Vedic medicine
called Ayrveda. Such profound studies led him to believe that he is
reincarnation of great Indian healers dealing herbs and barks of
jungles.
So far so good. The eternal search for self is a foundation stone
of Indian traditions, not necessarily what is termed as Hindu
traditions. Like our own Hawaiidiot Dr. Jai Maharaj, David does
dispense all kinds of free and for real money potions, concoctions
in the form of bottled preparations so that heathens of the world
could heal, yeah, heel to this messiah's zany concoction of
spirituality, morality, high living, health and wealth patented
formulas, that too.
This kind of sudden realization that one's own religion is no
good, one's family traditions are no good, one's conscience is no
good and the right answers are found in regurgitated mystic and
mythical religious practices of the orient is the driving force
behind such fucking gurus as Bhagwan Rajnish who fucked around and
fooled around elite Americans creating theology and modern mythology
of instant nirvana.
Bhagwan was kicked out of his Ashram in Oregon and languished in
horrible, despicable rejection from his own country to die and rise
to heaven as "Osho." David is very much alive and shows no signs of
quitting his snake oil vending operations, Ayurveda, Vedic
astrologic practice and predictions, Yoga, spirituality, perhaps
vegetarianism and anti Americanism mixed with new charter to malign
all except those snakes he calls as his gurus, masters and spiritual
leaders. The last one includes Aurobindo Ashram's French born woman
leader, wife of former terrorist turned spiritualist Aurobindo of
Pondicherry, Tamil Nadu.
What would be the condition of the world if such white horses were
not to threaten the territorial properties and rights of peaceful
neighboring kingdoms? David's shenanigans are no different than
Hawaiidiot, Dr. Jai Maharaj, perhaps in degree and intensity, a
minor point. Hindu hoodlums love such transmigrated scum bags, shit
buckets and sinful spin doctors. David became an instant celebrity
on account of his fraudulent work on Aryan Invasion of India. This
New Mexico rattle snake tells tall tales about times and considers
his much publicized work as a rosetta stone of a discovery. David's
interpretations, if based on his style of learning things from
correspondence course of doubtful origin and value is to be taken as
the extent, becomes more of a joke than serious scientific
discovery.
The self styled "Mr. Everything to everybody," sort of 'Man for
all seasons,' reasons, treason to his own country and faith, loves
the ovation he gets when he supposedly delivers his new dogma of
Hindu superiority. That thingy is lapped up by the Hindu hound dogs
like RSS boys. Lord Krishna said in his famous song celestial, Gita
that he shall appear again. Not in the desert of New Mexico! Give me
a break. David is a common thief, a charlatan, a gypsy doing his
astrology, herbal medicine thingy in a bazaar showing generously her
puffed up breasts and wide smile.
This two timing cheap hustler of Hindu religion is not the first
nor shall he be the last white to milk the Hindu deluded mindset's
cash cow and strike an instant bond of brotherliness among the ding
bat community. Madam Blavatsky did that sort of thingy before. That
French born woman of Pondicherry tried her hand. Hare Krishnawallahs
vagabonds are doing it. God bless them all. If they feel that great
religions of India are the recipe for the future, so be it.
What is the point when the same scum bags denigrate their own
religions and religious practices including but not limited to
religious traditions, myths and masters? David's uncalled for
defense of Hindu religion as against his own Roman Catholic faith is
a copout of worst kind. We know what are the reasons and rationale
behind Pope John Paul, II getting in his bullet proof Pope Mobile
and taking his message to the huddled masses of the world. There is
no piety in that act. It is sheer conquering attitude of war
mongering Aryan ruffians who performed their religious rituals
of 'Ashvamedha Yagya.' The celebrated Ratha has been mechanized and
retrofitted with bullet proof shield, that's all.
For ding bat Hindus to lap such lap dogs as David Frawley's every
word, every interpretation, every concoction is a proof enough that
that country rather have charlatans and spiritual gypsies shape
their beliefs than the reality. I should be mad but today I am sad.
Thanks to the Rediff dated November 4, 1999.
http://rediff.com/news/1999/nov/04pope1.htm
More on this Fru-Fru "Frawd" Frawley shit bucket.
Sid Harth..."God save Hindu simians from self styled
correspondence course trained gurus like Dr. David Frawley."
For more details,
http://www.geocities.com/tikakar/pope.html
Jason
http://www.mail-archive.com/fairfi...@yahoogroups.com/msg15738.html
Re: Human Trafficking/Prostitution: Sid Harth
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
•From: bademiyansubhanallah <elcidharth@xxxxxxxxx>
•Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 04:41:12 -0700 (PDT)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robin-sax/human-trafficking-a-probl_b_264789.html
Robin Sax Former Deputy District Attorney, Legal Commentator, Author
Posted: August 21, 2009 01:59 PM
Human Trafficking: A Problem of Language?
CommentsWhy is that human trafficking is so pervasive and yet so
misunderstood? Why do we assume that it's really an "overseas" issue?
Why do most people think of Cambodia or Thailand when the words "human
trafficking" are uttered?
It's not because it does not exist here in the United States--we know
it does. As a matter of fact, the numbers are astounding: the sex
trade is a multi-billion-dollar industry worldwide. UNICEF estimates
that approximately 1 million children around the world unwillingly
become sex slaves every year. The U.S. Department of Justice estimates
that there are 200,000 U.S. citizens yearly, mainly children and young
women, who are at high risk of being trafficked throughout the U.S for
sexual purposes.
The perception of human trafficking as an "overseas" issue has
persisted even though the U.S. passed the Trafficking Victims
Protection Act in October, 2000 to criminalize the issue domestically.
It was the first law specifically intended to prevent victimization,
to protect victims, and to prosecute perpetrators of human trafficking
here in the States.
Added to society's lack of understanding the truly epidemic
proportions of human trafficking is a similar lack from law
enforcement and prosecutors. Even though we have federal human
trafficking laws, many states do not have a version of these laws.
Even worse, some prosecutors don't even know these laws exist!
The effect of this lack of awareness is that many prosecutors will
file charges only on the "sex act" aspect of this crime. They may omit
the crime of human trafficking from the rap sheets, charging
documents, and ultimately, from the view of our society.
I am not alone in believing that much of our ignorance of human
trafficking and the subsequent lack of prosecutions are because the
terminology is vague and confusing. The very phrase, "human
trafficking," is a poor description of what really happens.
Human trafficking is not synonymous with moving people overseas.
Instead, the U.S. Federal Act of 2000 defines it as the "recruitment,
harboring, transportation, provision, or obtaining and person for
labor or services through the use of force, fraud, or coercion for the
purpose of subjection to involuntary servitude, peonage, debt bondage
or slavery; sex trafficking in which a commercial sex act is induced
by force, fraud, or coercion, or in which the person induced to
perform such an act has not attained 18 years of age."
With this definition we see two aspects of trafficking, both highly
repugnant: trafficking involves commercial sexual exploitation of
women and children (also known as "forced prostitution") AND it
involves involuntary servitude (also known as "slavery"). Not
surprisingly, most Americans cannot accept the idea that a form of
slavery still exists within the United States!
Shared Hope International, founded by former Congresswoman Linda
Smith, is a nonprofit leading a worldwide effort to eradicate the
marketplaces of sexual slavery. They have coined the term "Domestic
Minor Sex Trafficking" (DMST) to refer to what is happening here in
the United States. DMST is defined as "commercial sexual exploitation
of American children within American borders."
Wake up, folks! It's real, and it's really happening here!
DMST is a term that more accurately describes the nature of the crime,
as well as the victim status, by avoiding the vague term, "human
trafficking" or the poorly received term, "child prostitution." The
organization believes that the status of "victim" will be clarified,
as opposed to looking at the child as the delinquent. Child
prostitutes are frequently thought of as "bad kids" and therefore they
often they do not get the specialized care that they need.
In truth, these kids are a special group of sexual assault victims.
They have not chosen this lifestyle, despite what the perception is.
Unfortunately, the term "child prostitution" implies to some people
that there is some complicity from the victim.
Not true. Instead, more and more children are involved in sex
trafficking because that the supply is becoming younger in response to
buyers' demands. These perverts want to be with young people so they
can be associated with their victims' youth, health, and
vulnerability.
It's the commercial aspect that separates the crime of trafficking
from other sexual acts children, and it is this aspect where we need
to see change. Frequently, law enforcers and prosecutors do not
recognize the commercial aspect or are too lazy, understaffed or
under-
budgeted to investigate. Instead, they rationalize that just getting
the "perp" in the process of committing the act is enough. However,
they are failing to get to the real source of the traffickers, the
pimps, etc. and are not fully utilizing the power of this law.
Trafficking happens right here at home, not just in poor places by
"pimps." Surprisingly, it often involves people you would never
expect. For example, just last week, Ronald H. Tills, 74, a retired US
State Supreme Court Justice, was sentenced to 18 months in prison on a
felony charge of transporting prostitutes across state lines.
In this case, Tills was trafficking a young illegal woman to serve as
a prostitute at a convention he was attending. A human trafficking
task force investigated the case. Its members included investigators
from the FBI, U. S. Border Patrol, and U. S. Immigration & Customs
Enforcement, as well as the Erie and Niagara County sheriff's offices.
But this never really made the news - few people heard about it.
As I pondered the case, I couldn't help wondering why most of us
hadn't heard about it. Perhaps there were other pressing news bits,
but what is more pressing then protecting children and other victims
of sexual assault? Is it more important to know whether Dr. Conrad
Murray is going to be charged for manslaughter in Michael Jackson's
death? Or is it more likely that human trafficking is a crime we
simply don't understand--mostly because of a simple problem with
semantics?
If you know someone who is being trafficked or sexually exploited,
call the National Human Trafficking Hotline at 1-888-3737-888 or
9-1-1.
Follow Robin Sax on Twitter: www.twitter.com/robinsax
http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Soc/soc.culture.indian.marathi/2009-08/msg00011.html
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sid Harth vs David Frawley - 33
Rick Archer
Sat, 02 Jul 2005 13:01:35 -0700
I think FFL has reached a new FFL weirdness apex.
on 7/2/05 2:55 PM, off_world_beings at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> --- In Fairfi...@yahoogroups.com, Jason Daniel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Hari Om,
Of Harappa and Hindu Haramjadeh
by Sid Harth
Brahmin bubbas don't give up. My good brother, Michael
Witzel beat these feces fascists to pulp over a fake and fictitious
claims made by Dr. David 'Frawd' Frawley, N S Rajaram shit shoveling
dogs. N Ram of Frontline replicated Michael Witzel's scientific
articles, the reasoning and rationale behind politicizing an area
hethereto kept clean by world scientists, archaelogists, linguists,
comparative historians and dozens of Indian scholars and brahmin
pundits.
It made no impact on shit shoveling dos of saffron kind,
apparently. The Times of India article ripping apart the recent
Hindutva handout in the form of a catalogue for a new wing for
Harappa exhibit would be also ignored by these brainwashed brahmin
bubbas.
What is ther to ignore? The proof of the pudding is in its
taste. Just look at the convoluted logic extended by these fucked up
fascists to prove their putrid theory that Aryans and Harappa
civilization people were one and same. They bring two nincompoops. N
S Rajaram is a lunatic. This goddamned idiot has made enough noise.
Now it is the time to whupp his ass.
Sid Harth..."Paganism means Hindu religion, make it putrid,
filthy, mythology based pure shit."
http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:WbEJqmyYXjoJ:www.comebackkid.com/harth74.html+witzel+frawley+
OR+rajaram+%22harth74%22&hl=en
Of Defending, Offending and Rear Ending Hindu Hoodlums. by
Sid Harth
I told this story once. Maybe, this is good time to repeat
it. One Columbia University don, professor, if you wished asked me
to get the hell out from a list, a scholarly list, discussing
Indology in no uncertain terms because he was offended by my
fuckwords, cusswords and unparliamentary, unprintable vile
expressions of genuine anger.
I retaliated in kind. Plugged that son of a bitch's royal
ass. I did not have to be cruel to him but wanted to show where the
truth lies as far as my India related commentary is concerned.
I unloaded pertinent information on Hinduja brothers,
scumbags, according to a cover story written by none other than my
good brother, Pranay Gupte in Forbes. Hindujas have a reputation of
laying millions at doorsteps of noble institutes, projects,
organizations such as Columbia.
Hindujas have paid fancy sums to Columbia to institute a
chair. Good brother, Michael Witzel write me a personal note
thanking for the information. Michael Witzel ain't no two timing,
shit shoveling dog that Dr. David Frawley and N S Rajaram are. He
appreciates what I do.
Fucked up fascists may brainwash thirteen year old kids to
convince them that the land of milk and honey, India that is, needs
to be defended against people like yours truly. So be it. The truth
must be told. India is a big pile of shit, take it or leave it.
Sid Harth..."There is no crime in telling the truth in
however the vile language one can imagine as otherwise the Brahmin
Devil shall destroy whatever good there may be in the holy Hindu
hoodlumland called India."
Maintianing the spirit and methodology of this thread:
Crazy Guy
You are a horiffic cross-dressing corpse who beats the sick minded
disfunctional buffoon and the unsavory penguin groper.
Chances are your best friend is a cursed nipply pantaloon who
controls the mind of the loincloth chomping bungweed and the evil
booger.
Get away from me you whoring hideous fleck of llama spit who walks
all over the teletubbie rubbing can of rotten spam and the cunt
licking blister.
Your father was a pathetic oozing ass who controls the body of the
whoring penile colonist and the loud hermaphrodite.
Your significant other is a cum guzzling butt kissing dildo who
sucks on the loincloth chomping freak and the demented molester.
To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Or go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!'
Yahoo! Groups Links
Rick Archer
SearchSummit
1108 South B Street
Fairfield, IA 52556
Phone: 641-472-9336
Fax: 815-572-5842
http://searchsummit.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.mail-archive.com/fairfi...@yahoogroups.com/msg15897.html
#1 18th August 1999, 11:03 AM
Karam Posts: n/a
BJP : The Myth of Communal Party - Is It A Crime to Be Natio
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
34950825
#7863
By [B]Karam[/B] on [B]Wednesday, August 18, 1999 - 04:33 am[/B]
Why BJP doesn’t deserve to be in the power.....
During this 13 month of BJP ficaso, India suffered the hardest time of
her 52 year independence. Let me brief my points in a shortest
possible time.
* After hardly being in power for a single damn month, BJP ordered Mr.
Abdul Kalam to go test nuclear bombs. As a result, the world’s largest
democracy came under global condemnation and sanction fire. What was
such an urgent need for nuclear deterrent all of sudden is indeed a
BJP mystery.
* As a result of our testing, pakistan seized the golden opportunity
and tested its Chinese bombs. Don’t get me wrong here friends,
pakistan would not have dared to test alone ever if it was not the BJP
who gave them the required political and economic sunroof to dance
under.
* When India tested its bombs, US and some other countries imposed
economic sanctions. But most of the countries including G-8 group
refrained from imposing any. Do you know why? Simple, they all were
engaged in a trade with India worth billions of dollars and imposing
sanctions would have shaken their own economies.
* Feudal pakistan closely examined all sanctions imposed on India for
two long weeks and finally nodded in yes to press chinese nuclear
button to bring its hostile designs wide open. Pakistan knew that
whatever was imposed on India would similarly be imposed on them by
default and those countries who refrained from imposing any sanction
on India were helpless to be the same to pakistan because they
couldn’t have been different to pakistan under same political issue.
Pakistan didn’t have any huge trade relations with any G-8 nation but
still escaped sanctions, simply because it was able to hide itself
under huge trade market of India. Had pakistan tested these bombs
alone, almost all of the world except her Bangladeshi and Arabic
Brothers, would have severely paralyzed its very existence. So in my
conclusion, BJP deserves the entire credit of not only converting
pakistan into a nuclear state but also saving it from most of economic
sanctions.
* Now, BJP-tests by India and chinese-tests by pakistan made Kashmir
issue international overnight. Not just international but also a
nuclear one. Years of hard work by our descendants to not to let
pakistan internationalize Kashmir went all down the drain. Who do we
blame for it? Last brief war that we had with China was in 1962 and
BJP realized her as our main threat 36 years after? How could one
slaughter national interests just to achieve domestic political
support can be learnt from BJP fanatics.
* Not only Kashmir became international issue but also pakistan
achieved the long awaited nuclear deterrence shield that would
encourage its rogue military to pump up cross-border terrorism and
intrude into India just the way they misadventured in Kargil. Had BJP
not allowed pakistan to test nuclear bombs, an episode like Kargil
would have never occurred.
* This is just the beginning of pakistani rogue designs to destabilize
India. Long time ago depleted Assamese separatist movement has been
realived by pakistan’s ISI. Within 15 days after expulsion of
pakistani forces from Kargil , atleast a dozen army camps have come
under terrorist attach( in other words pakistani proxy war). Army
coming under terrorist attach has never happened in 52 years of Indian
rule in Kashmir. Intelligence reports say foreign mercenaries
including Afghani, Sudanese and Turkish basterds have been hired by
pakistan to cause mayhem in the valley. Some disturbing reports reveal
that pakistan is working on a major plan to cause mayhem in Punjab as
well. Once again, pakistan would have never dared to challenge India
so openly, had BJP not allowed them to achieve nuclear status.
In my opinion guys, BJP is solely responsible for bringing our nation
under such an immense international pressure. A day after testing
nuclear bombs in May last year, Vajpayee was quoted as saying “
Pakistan is atleast 50 years behind us in terms of technology and thus
retaliating with its own tests”. I am sorry to disappoint you Mr.
Prime minister, but they are 50 ‘ahead of us’ in terms of ‘stealing’
them from other countries.
I don’t think if BJP even deserve to serve as an opposition party, let
alone ruling the nation. Even that terrorist chief of JKLF in PoK
openly wished for BJP’s success in the coming elections. In his
previous comments about BJP, he said all of Kashmiris and pakistani
thank BJP for bringing Kashmir on world stage. In hardly a year of
BJP’s rule, Kashmir became what it couldn’t be in 50 years of
struggle, he said.
In conclusion, I would be the most disappointed person on this planet
if I hear that BJP has won the support to establish its government
again. I am not saying Congress is any better but not as mean and
fanatic and BJP. Before going to sleep tonight, I will pray to God to
not to let these fanatics to mess with my beloved India again.
Karam
#2 19th December 1999, 07:51 PM
Sid Harth Posts: n/a
BJP : The Myth of Communal Party - Is It A Crime to Be Natio
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
45613293
#13919
By [B]Sid Harth[/B] on [B]Sunday, December 19, 1999 - 02:21 pm[/B]
Of Bill Gates and BJP's Boforsgate
The answer is, 'what is busted in primetime in the tragically slow
legal system.' When Kargil caper of the BJP Boys, Lallu the criminal
kallu instigated little war on the mountain top did not succeed to
vaporize, saffron simians' Professor Moriarty, Congress party
president of Italian vintage, Sonia Gandhi, the BJP baglady collected
the dirt on Sonia's husband, Rajiv Gandhi and put on their song and
dance routine in their filthy attire.
BJP boys, now in full control of their Delhi escapade, a journey of no
return, that is to say that these morons believe they are invincible
as they are invisible, irresponsible, incorruptible, intransigent,
they changed the gears, sort of preplanned frontal assault at the very
foundation of Sonia Gandhi, her past.
Everybody has a past. Especially the saffron gorillas in business
suits of saffron pin stripes, have some pretty filthy past. Those sons
of <FONT COLOR="ff0000">•••••</FONT> killed in cold blood, Mahatma
Gandhi, didn't they? Those Mafia maniacs helped, materially,
physically and spiritually in Sikh massacre after Indira Gandhi
assassination at the hands of her Sikh bodyguards.
These Brahmin <FONT COLOR="ff0000">••••••••</FONT> run chop shop,
cheap, fake and fraudulent front operations in the north America under
the very laws they break in India, the free speech and the freedom of
association. These Brahmin motheroops!kers talk thru their reptilian
forked tongues all the time. What is an insult to them, be it a case
of a hard rock band, Aerosmith's CD label, Jerry Seinfeld's funny TV
sketch, Warrior princess, Xena's escapades in the TV drama or prince
consort Phillip badmouthing, in jest the Indian engineering, such is
the case, these bavards take up catcalling, mass hysterical
mohterfukcing on the net.
Whereas, Roman Catholic citizens of India have no liberty to invite
their pontiff and kiss his holy ring (of fire). Indians do take
corruption for granted. Sometime, government of India grants, that is
to say sanctions such pitiful behavior by turning off the protective
devices of the law. There is not a single project in India that hasn't
paid rich dividends to the sponsor ing political big daddy. Not always
in terms of cold cash but certainly in
terms of carved in stone glory in perpetuity.
Jawaharlal Nehru, being a pucca Brahmin that he was, had this thingy
for foundation stones, corner stones to be carved in marble and placed
most prominently so that people knew how kind he was to them. I say a
minor violation. No big deal. Once visiting a small town holy place in
India, I found a laundry list of all the people whose power made a
small bridge, almost a culvert kind of thingy in blazing, bold,
prominent pink. The list was growing as the newer administration
bosses wanted some glory for them too. Those who had nothing to do
with the project, sort of after the fact also added their two cents
worth of glory by appending the already mile long list, as usual
carved in stone.
Bofors was real then and it is real now. Bad things happened and all
those who participated in that high level corruption scandal are
either dead and gone or fled the country and are of no value to the
court case. If Quattrocchi fella is made a scapegoat being a kingpin
of this scandal, what about the Hinduja boys? Hinduja boys not only
were in the thick of it, why they were the oil and grease to this
Bofors gun deal. Nobody badmouths Hindujas, mohterfuckers sue each and
every instance of their character assassination, we all know that.
Thanks to the Rediff dated December 19, 1999.
[url="http://rediff.com/news/1999/dec/18akd.htm"]http://rediff.com/
news/1999/dec/18akd.htm[/url]
On the brighter side, BJP boys are doing some constructive and some
destructive work as their civic duty calls. No scandals of the Bofors
size, just everyday, routine, RSS Rasputinian, slow dose of arsenic
thingy.
Thanks to the Rediff, the Hindustan Times dated December 19, 1999.
[url="http://rediff.com/news/1999/dec/18guja.htm"]http://rediff.com/
news/1999/dec/18guja.htm[/url]
[url="http://www.hindustantimes.com/nonfram/191299/
detFRO02.htm"]http://www.hindustantimes.com/nonfram/191299/
detFRO02.htm[/url]
[url="http://www.hindustantimes.com/nonfram/191299/
detNAT08.htm"]http://www.hindustantimes.com/nonfram/191299/
detNAT08.htm[/url]
Sid Harth..."BJP boys, it seems, are trying to build the gate after
the horse has bolted from their barn, Blimey!"
--
[url="http://www.comebackkid.com/"]http://www.comebackkid.com/[/url]
Sid Harth
#3 24th December 1999, 05:27 AM
Sid Harth Posts: n/a
BJP : The Myth of Communal Party - Is It A Crime to Be Natio
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45993439
#14141
By [B]Sid Harth[/B] on [B]Thursday, December 23, 1999 - 11:57 pm[/B]
Of Moonshiners Mooning minister
Moonshine is a slang for home made brew, 'bathtub Jenny' 'speakeasy
special' made in the shade, shadow of the moonlit skies of Appalachia,
popularly called in Bombay as "hathbhatti.
Mooning is showing one's bare ass, rear end, buttocks as an insult or
attracting atterntion in American youth.
Mulayam Singh Yadav of Socialist Party gave a forinstance of how a
parliamentary procedure can be taken for a bar brawl, with shouting,
threatening, intimidating, breaking all the normal rules, disrupting,
clannish and clownish behavior, called in India as normal,
notwithstanding what the editors of hindustan.net think of it.
One thing for sure, a man much maligned such as Mulayam Singh is an
epitome of free speech, no kidding. Even the prime minister, the
speaker, the opposition leader, equally maligned by the treasury
benches would not interfere with Mulayam's farcical free speech.
I may not like what transpires in the confinement of the Indian
parliament as I am not privy to that august body. This behavior has
been a staple of Indian parliament and no one is immune from throwing
such and worse tantrums, now and then.
<FONT COLOR="ff0000">••••</FONT> goes on, I say.
Internet Hindu hoodlums don't take sides in such atrocious
parliamentary behavior as they have to throw some saffron <FONT
COLOR="ff0000">••••</FONT> at those who criticize such wanton,
disorderly behavior, especially yours truly. Since no one dare speak
against these saffron bozos with machetes and a medieval mindset which
does not allow them to introspectively look at their holy and unholy
mess at the highest level of authority, the parliament of India.
A little jostling, a little nose rubbing, a little ridicule goes long
way in parliamentary procedures all over the world. In India, the
society of sewer rats, that becomes an item to be denounced by the
local editors. These local editors are not averse to some good time
mud slinging either. saffron simians who have some or other kind of
journalistic talents and some resources are constantly engaged in
abusing the patience of their readers and yeah, their leaders.
Saffron mare, Varsha Bhosle does her spit fire writing that falls
outside the journalistic style, yet she is almost worshipped for it.
In these days of Pokemon and and children getting their pocket money
which incidentally could be greater than an average low level clear,
who has time to sit and take all the parliamentary procedure in? They
rather have some song and dance routine the kind of Indian
parliamentary proceedings.
A little rumble in the parliament goes long way. Cameras are not
allowed in the chambers but the reporters take pretty good notes and
rush to file their titillating reports over their pocket PCs and
cellular phones.
Thanks to the Indian Express dated December 23, 1999.
[url="http://www.expressindia.com/ie/daily/19991223/
ina23068.html"]http://www.expressindia.com/ie/daily/19991223/
ina23068.html[/url]
Sid Harth..."Let the hindustan.net deluded dunces be aware that they
cannot shut up the instance of a free speech, no matter how ugly it
is, not only for an instant, a moment no matter how much they insist
upon it."
--
[url="http://www.comebackkid.com/"]http://www.comebackkid.com/[/url]
Sid Harth
#4 19th June 2000, 10:58 PM
BJP admirer Posts: n/a
BJP : The Myth of Communal Party - Is It A Crime to Be Natio
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61432086
#19039
By [B]BJP admirer[/B] on [B]Monday, June 19, 2000 - 04:28 pm[/B]
The latest achievement of BJP-RSS nexus on communal harmony and Indian
brotherhood: a chronological survey:
Attacks againts Christians : UPDATE NO- 2
(This chronological update of attacks on the Christian minority
includes only those incidents which have been reported mainly in the
National Press or been related by the victim/s directly.
Unfortunately, many of such incidents remain unreported for different
reasons. The source of information is given at the end of each
incident.)
The Minority Bashing in India Attacks on Christians (May 1 to June 15,
2000)
May 2, 2000
Paricha, Jhansi, in State of Madhya Pradesh.
Six unidentified masked men, looted the Convent belonging to the
Daughters of Sacred Heart Congregation, assaulted and beat up the nuns
residing there, desecrated their residential sacred Chapel in the
house, and robbed money and valuables on the night of May 2, at
Paricha in Jhansi.
(Information Bureau-Delhi Catholic Archdiocese)
*
May 3, 2000.
Subir, Dangs, in State of Gujarat.
A group of Christians was beaten up when its members were engaged in a
sound-and light programme at Subir, 33 km from Ahwa in Dangs district
of Gujarat on May 3. It is the same area where the Bajarang Dal (the
storm-troopers of the RSS) activists had attacked and burnt the prayer
halls, churches, houses and vehicles belonging to Christians, on large
scale, two yeas ago.
(The Daily Hindu 5/5/2000 New Delhi)
*
May 4, 2000.
Hyderabad in the State of Andhra Pradesh.
The State Minorities Welfare Organization has condemned the selective
demolition of a Church at Imamguda Basti in Yellareddyguda by the
Municipal Corporation Hyderabad (MCH) on May 4. Organization President
Manoj Alexander in a statement alleged that the MCH had targeted a
church though several mosques and temples were placed in the middle of
the roads.
(Reported in the Deccan Chronicle, 6/5/2000, Hyderabad)
May 4, 2000.
Patna in State of Bihar.
The prestigious St. Xavier’s School of Patna came under attack on May
4, when the brother of a boy enjoying ruling party patronage who
fainted during the free remedial class, managed to create trouble and
communalize a local issue . The Jesuit principal Fr. Peter was accused
of ‘harassment’, ‘misbehavior’ and even of ‘sodomy’. The incident
occurred because Fr. Peter seeing some of the students very poor in
Physics organized remedial classes for them so that those weak
students who were weak in the subject could do better in the exams. In
the course of such a class which the principal conducted free of cost
on his own initiative, one of the boys felt dizziness, fell down
though recovered later and continued attending the class. It happened
because it was too hot and the boy had been playing earlier. But later
the brother of the boy managed to organize the disgruntled elements in
the school on communal lines especially those whose wards were denied
admissions or promotions in the school. The organizations like The RSS
and the BJP were in the forefront in attacking the school and
Christians. (The Indian Currents Volume XII, Issue 20, dated May 21,
2000, New Delhi)
May 5, 2000.
Ara in the State of Bihar.
The Catholic High School at Arah near Patna was attacked on May 5, by
a group of anti-Christian men. They not only damaged the school
building, broke doors and windows but worst of all broke the statue of
Mother Mary in the School compound. The mob was led by elements
connected with ABVP and Bajrang Dal (both offshoots of the RSS) The
incident coming as part of continuous chain of events against
Christians have created fresh fears among the Christians of Bihar.
(The Indian Currents Volume XII, Issue 20, dated May 21, 2000, New
Delhi)
*
May 5, 2000.
Ahmedabad in the State of Gujarat.
Fresh attack on Christians by Bajarang Dal activists on Friday, in
Ahmedabad was reported in the national newspapers. The miscreants
attacked Christians with lathis (wooden sticks) and sharp-edged
weapons. The incident reportedly occurred when people from the Bible
House were distributing handouts. The miscreants also burnt copies of
the Bible.
(The Indian Express, the Times of India, 6/5/2000, New Delhi)
May 6, 2000.
New Delhi
The Delhi edition of the Hindustan Times reports that booklet on how
to implicate the minorities in court with false allegations had been
circulated in the state of Gujarat for about three months now. The
booklet without author’s or publisher’s name on it, titled Hinduno
Bachao-Humlao Ane Qanoon (Save Hindus- Attacks and Laws). The booklet
carries the following guidelines for cadres of Hindutva, "now that we
have our own government, we should take proper advantage of it and get
our work done by it", "In the complaints we file to take revenge, we
should implicate the top authorities of the mission and if possible,
foreign missionaries also". "They may not be convicted in the court in
the end, but they should be made to go up and down the court for
months on end.... harassment is also a type of punishment". (The
Hindusta Times, 6/5/2000, New Delhi)
*
May 7, 2000.
Almora in the State of Uttar Pradesh.
In the district of Almora of UP there was a controversy over a report
published by one NGO about AIDS. It provided the communal and anti-
social elements an opportunity to attack Christian priest and social
worker Fr. Andrew James S.J. Fr. Andrew who contributed immensely in
organizing the social service centre called Social, Educational and
Village Animation (SEVA) doing women’s empowerment works through self
help groups, Health programme on Hygiene, training of Dais(Women
health workers) for safer delivery, and assisting all government
immunization programes like polio vaccination, conducted by local
women animators themselves. SEVA is facing threats from various
elements who do no appreciate the good works done by the women in more
than 75 villages in the Almora area of UP state. The present agitated
mood of some of the people in the area especially in Barechena
village, 16 kms away from Almora is creating uncertainties in the
minds of SEVA women animators and the beneficiaries in the SEVA
programes who are mostly women. The women of the SEVA have also sent
appeals to the National Commission for Women to look into the matter
as it is a serious matter for the women of the area who are trying
their best to progress as a group in the society, by participating in
the Panchayat Raj, dealing in matters of concern with the Block
officer and involving themselves in various activities that enhances
the state of women in the region. But certain powerful people in the
area are keen to see that SEVA stops completely its developmental work
with the women in the area. Unfortunately the administration is
playing into the hands of vested intersts and is bent upon victimizing
SEVA and its main functionary Fr. Andrew James SJ.
(As reported by SEVA.)
May 9, 2000.
Abhona, Nasik in The State of Maharashtra.
A mob of about 80 to 100 people led by Vishwa Hindu Parishad (an
outfit of the RSS) activist Mr.Vinay Mahajan and consisting of
Bajarang Dal members forced its way into a girls hostel (Ashramshala)
run by a Protestant mission at Abhona village in Nasik district. The
mob also attacked a gathering of tribal Christians watching a film on
Christ. They beat up the Christians and two of them Ambadas Chaudhari
and Rajani Ashok Budha received serious injuries. The mob set fire to
four vehicles and also burnt religious literature. The attackers
shouted slogans like jai Bhavani and jai Shivaji as they damaged a
cinema projector, the screen, broke lamps and pelted stones. The mob
had entered the place shouting Jai Hanuman where the Christians had
gathered around 11.pm. (The Indian Express, the Times of India, the
Statesman, the Hindu, 11/05/200, New Delhi).
*
May 11, 2000.
Indore in the State of Madhya Pradesh.
A group belonging to the Hindu fundamentalist Bajrang Dal, attacked
three churches in Indore on the night of May 11. They first ransacked
a church in Bajarang Nagar locality. Miscreants then damaged the Holy
Cross, and the place of prayer and broke Holy utensils and the public
address system at St. Paul’s Church. There after they threw stones and
tried to damage the church buildings at Vandana Nagar and Messiah
Vidya Bavan again in Indore. The Bajarang Dal hooligans also tried to
set afire the Christian library at the Nagar Nigam building (The
Indian Express, the Hindustan Times, 13/5/2000, New Delhi) *
*May 11, 2000.
Sunavara, Bangalore in the State of Karnataka.
A Jesuit Scholastic (a college student studying to be a Catholic
priest in the order of the Society of Jesus) was attacked and stabbed
on the road at about 5.30 p.m. on May 11, by two scooter born youth to
be belonging to an anti-Christian Hindu fundamentalist group, at
Sunavara village in Anekal Taluk. The young Jesuit brother, Anthony
Selva(22) was returning on a two wheeler from the village,
Basavanapura after his free English coaching classes to the poor Dalit
children of the village. The two men who waylaid him followed him on a
two-wheeler. The duo before injuring Anthony Selva with the knife they
carried. had repeatedly asked him questions like, " What are you
Christians trying to do here?" and "where are you coming from?" The
attackers did not hide their displeasure towards the Christians in the
area and accused Anthony Selva of trying to "convert". The attackers
left the scene as a scooter was seen approaching the scene on hearing
the cries for help from Antony Selva. The two men on the scooter
helped the profusely- bleeding and shocked Selva by taking him to a
doctor Anekal. (The Hindustan Times, 13/5/2000, New Delhi).
*
May 12, 2000.
New Delhi.
The BJP continued with its offensive against the Christian community
by using the route of the Private Members’ Bill. MS Ahluwalia, a new
recruit to the ruling party and a member of Rajya Sabha, the Upper
House of the Indian Parliament, introduced in the House, ‘The
Religious Conversions (Prohibition of Allurement and Use of Coercive
Method) Bill 2000.’ The Bill introduced by SS Ahluwalia, seeks, "to
prohibit the allurement by promising employment, free education in
reputed schools for wards, easy money and decent life by religious
bodies etc., for further attracting people converting their religion
and use of coercive methods for such conversions and deterrent
punishment for the violations". It provides that a person convicted
under its provisions shall be liable to rigorous imprisonment for a
minimum period of five years which may extend to 10 and fine which may
extend to Rs.100, 000. *
The reasons attached to Mr. Ahluwalia’s Bill is that: "Quite a good
number of persons belonging to a particular religion across the
country, particularly the poor, tribals and such other vulnerable
categories are being lured by certain religious organizations,
missionaries etc. for converting to their religion by offering them
with job, money, free education to their wards, promise of decent
life. As a result these innocent poor people are migrating to other
religions" (The Statesman, 13/05/2000, New Delhi). *
May 13-14, 2000.
Katiguda and Nuasahi in the State of Orissa.
Unidentified miscreants torched two Christian prayer homes, in the
Katiguda and Nuasahi villages under Kandhamal district in Orissa. The
police registered four cases in connection with the May 13-14 incident
but no arrests were made. (The Hindustan Times and the Statesman,
22/5/2000, New Delhi)
*
May 15, 2000
Meerut in the State of Uttar Pradesh.
The anti-minority organizations backed by the RSS are adamant and
persistent on their tirade against the Christians. The latest is in
the form of a book that finds every thing wrong with Christianity and
declares it to be anti-human. The RSS backed Vishwa Samvad Kendra
published and distributed the saffron covered book in Hindi, titled
"Worldwide Conspiracy of Christianity" by Adhish Kumar. The book is
circulated widely in the areas near Delhi, mentions about the Rs.
65,000 crores budget that is used to spread the "menace" of
Christianity through missionary activities across the world, a large
part of which is coming to India for the purpose of conversion and
other anti-Hindu activities. This is part of the hate literature
against Christians which is resulting in violent attacs on the
community. (The Statesman, 17/5/2000, New Delhi).
*
May 16, 2000
Pune in the State of Maharashtra.
Even nursery rhymes of timeless reign, but containing Christian names
have become anthema to the Hindu communalists. In Maharashtra schools
from June 2000, the primary students will not sing anymore "Mary had a
little lamb...". Instead they will have to be replaced with the
swadeshi version, "Meera had a little cat, whose fur was white as
snow..." Interestingly, the State of Maharashtra is presently governed
by a coaliation of two factions of Congress (The Indian Express,
17/5/2000, New Delhi).
*
May 17, 2000.
Bhind, Gwalior, in the State of Madhya Pradesh.
A 50 year Old Catholic Priest, Fr. Anthonysamy was attacked in the
remote mission station in Bhind. "Father Anthonysamy was staying in a
rented house near the bus stand. On Tuesday at about 2-30 p.m. six
youths entered his house and after identifying him slapped him and
inflicted him with blows. They left him bleeding and almost
unconscious and with the threat that they would return to kill him".
The United Christian Forum for Human Rights (UCFHR) has taken up the
case with the National Commission for Minorities (NCM). In a letter to
the NCM, the UCFHR said, "we expect the NCM to look into the national
perspective in which attacks on religious men and women and
institutions of the Christian Community, whatever be the individual
causative factors, are becoming so common". (The Hindu, 18/5/ 2000,
New Delhi).
*
May 17, 2000.
Ahmedabad in the State of Gujarat.
A group of Christians were attacked at the Maheshwari Society near
Arbudanagar in Odhav areas of Ahmedabad City on 17th morning. The
Times of India reports that, "A fax message sent to the governor by
United Christian Association joint secretary Samson Christian stated
that three members of the group were seriously injured in the clash.
Curiously, no criminal complain was lodged at the police station
although Samson Christian faxed copies of the letter to police
commissioner P.C Pande, the Prime Minister and the home
ministry." (The Times of India, 19/5/2000, New Delhi)
*
May 17, 2000.
Ghusat/Tappa, Dewas in the State of Madhya Pradesh.
A group of gangsters broke open the main gate of Franciscan Brothers’
residence at Ghusat/Tappa in the district of Dewas in the wee hours of
May 17, 2000. They smashed the windows, doors and picture of Jesus.
The intruders left with TV., VCP, etc. On filing an FIR police arrived
for investigation but a group of persons hindered the police in
interrogating a suspect. They threatened to kill Brothers, burn the
mission complex and unfurl the flag of a Hindu fundamentalist
organization on the mission. In this case police acted promptly and
stolen goods were found plaed back in the mission compound. (The
Indian Currents, Vol XII, Issue 24 dated 18/6/2000)
*
May 20, 2000.
New Delhi.
A new book titled Holy Vedas and Holy Bible - A comparative Study, by
Mr. Kanayalal M. Talreja and an old timer of the RSS is now the new
weapon on the hands of the Sangh Parivar for Christian bashing. The
anti-Christian ‘elements are overjoyed with this publication. "Whether
it’s the RSS headquarters in Jahndelwalan, the BJP’s central office on
Ashoka Road or the Vishwa Hindu Parishad media centre, everyone is
talking about how forcefully the book has ‘exposed’ the vices in The
Holy Bible and the missionary’s design to Christianize India", reports
the Statesman. *
Mr. Talreja has dedicated the book to Dayanand Saraswati, Veer
Savarkar and RSS founder Keshav Baliram Hedgewar. Using the New
Testament as proof, the book writes that Jesus Christ’s Mother was not
a virgin and had other children too. The book has got lavish praises
from the RSS cadres like former Delhi Chief Minister and Lok Sabha
member Mr. Saheb Singh Verma and former BJP MP. Mr. Guman Man Lodha.
Mr. Lodha was glad that the, "the author has... exposed the myth about
the sacredness... and all pious ...camouflage about Christianity and
tried to establish the real greatness of Vedas".Thus the publication
of hate literature continues unabatedly and openly. (The Statesman,
21/5/2000, New Delhi)
*
May 21, 2000.
Machlipatnam in the State of Andhra Pradesh.
A crude bomb exploded at 9.30 pm in a prayer meeting of around 1000
people in Machliptnam injuring seriously 30 persons out which 25 were
women.
(The Deccan Chronicle, 22/5/2000, Hyderabad)
*
May 22, 2000.
Jagadhri, Yamunanagar in the State of Haryana.
Christian bashing in India has reached such a pass that now the Sangh
Parivar dares to accuse Christians of colluding with the Pakistan’s
ISI to disturb peace in the country. The Statesman, New Delhi,
reported on May 23, 2000, "VHP today asked the Hindus to be united
against alleged conversions by missionaries and said that Christians
in collusion with the Pakistan’s’ ISI was disturbing peace in
country’s northeast. Addressing a press conference at Jagadhri,
Parishad vice president Acharya Giri Raj Kishore demanded a white
paper on the activities of the ISI and Christian missionaries". (The
Statesman, 23/5/2000, New Delhi) *
May 22, 2000.
New Delhi.
The BJP led Government has thought it urgent to pass the Draft
Christian Marriage Bill 2000, as the Government decided to chose to
correct the minor issues concerning the minorities rather than being
bothered about various other issues facing the country which need
urgent attention. No one doubts the BJP government’s keen interest in
making immediate amendments and correction as it thinks fit on all
issues concerning Christian and Muslim minorities in the country. A
consultation of Christians from Delhi alone was called by the
government at short notice of mearly ten days without even having
given them enough time to go through the draft of the Bill or giving
them a chance to take opinions of the larger Christian community
spread over the country. The major point of objection of the
Christians in the proposed Bill is the divorce provision in it. The
proposed new Bill does not want to accept the definition of a
Christian marriage, which is central to the Christians because
marriage for a Christian is not merely a contract but a covenant. The
New Bill 2000, bars mixed couples from having Church weddings. The
BJP’s attempt is to disregard the understanding of a Christian
marriage, which is almost ecumenical and acceptable to Christians
Universally The new Bill says that, "if a priest refuses to solemnize
a marriage without a valid reason, he could be fined Rs. 500 or even
Jailed for a year. This proposal is in spite of the fact that there is
no punitive clause against priests in the Hindu Marriage Act 1955. *
May 24, 2000.
Mumbai in the State of Maharashtra.
The local police made a mockery of rule of law when they arrested on
May 19, Fr. Sebastian Correa, Principal of Padua High School at
Mankhurd, near Mumbai on non-bailable offences for happening to be the
principal of a boy who unfortunately chose death over failure in his
examinations. It is disgracing to any sensible citizen to see the
keenness and audacity of the police administration (who are, as a
rule, slow to act even on most urgent complaints) to arrest and put in
lockup any Christian priests at the point of a finger. Something
similar to the operation of the Anti-Christian Blasphemy Law of
Pakistan was enacted in India, when the Catholic Priest Principal of
the School was charged with ‘aiding and abetting the suicide’ of 15
year old Chetan Tambde, 12 days after he had hung himself to death at
his own home at Mankhurd on April 28. The shocked teaching fraternity
at the school feels that such an action by the administration would
set a bad precedent in the academic community. Chetan was one among
the 20 of 63 students in his class who was not promoted to class X.
"All Fr. Correa, has to say is that he cannot figure out why the
police have slapped these charges against him".(The Indian Express,
25/5/2000, New Delhi) *
May 26, 2000.
Thane in the State of Maharashtra.
It is now "Quit India" movement against Christians because in the
opinion of the Bajarang Dal, Christian missionaries, who for centuries
have helped to wipe the tears of millions of poor, illiterate and
oppressed Indians, are those who "divide the country" and must be
"driven away’. The Bajarang Dal national leader, Dr. Surendra Jain,
declared -What he called- a second ‘Quit Inidia Movement’ to "drive
away" Christian Missionaries who were ‘defaming" Hinduism and carrying
out large-scale connversions of Hindus. According to The Hindu,
addressing the concluding session of the Bajarang Dal’s 10-day
training camp her, Dr. jain expresed serious concern over the alleged
activities of Christian missionaries "to divide the contry" and
asserted that the Bajarang Dal, the VHP and the RSS would "never allow
this to happen". (The Hindu, 27/5/2000, New Delhi) *
May 28, 2000.
Vikarabad Town in the State of Andhra Pradesh.
Explosive device planted in a church in Vikarabad was defused averting
heavy casualties. (The Hindu 29/05/2000)
*
June 1, 2000.
Calcutta in West Bengal.
The Bangiya Christia Parishad, an apex Christian body of West Bengal
today, sought the intervention of Orissa Chief Minister, Navin Patnaik
for the immediate arrest of killers of Pastor Uday Barik in Orissa.
The general Secretary of the organization, Mr.Herod Mullick said in a
statement, "we are not surprised to learn of the killing of Barik in
your state where Fr. Arul Doss, Graham Staines and his two sons gave
their lives in the hands of fanatics."
(The Hindustan Times 2/06/2000, New Delhi)
*
June 2, 2000.
Manoharpur, Orissa.
The Shankaracharya of Puri, Swami Nischalananda Saraswati a religious
Hindu leader of Orissa ‘reconverted’ 72 tribal Christians to Hinduism
in a public ceremony in Manoharpur village. The senior police/
administrative officials of the State and local BJP leaders were
present when this ‘re-conversion’ took place. This was the same
village where Hindu fanatics had burnt alive the Australian Missionary
Graham Stains and his two minor sons on 22-23 January 1999.
Interestingly, this ‘re-conversion’ ceremony had full state patronage
whereas the Hindu fanatics have been demanding ban on conversions to
religions other than Hinduism. The Shankaracharya of Puri also
clarified that these ‘re-converts’ will be allowed to visit only
separate ‘Swastik temples’ and marry within their caste or tribe. *
June 7, 2000.
Navada, Mathura in the State of Uttar Pradesh.
Franciscan Brother George Kuzhikandam, Principal of St. Francis School
was brutally murdered in the hostel building during the night while he
was asleep. The killers first locked a servant in a room and did not
rob anything. This School was supposed to be under police protection
in the wake of earlier serious violent attacks on the Christian
institutions in the area during last month.
*
The administration was quick to declare this incident as the handiwork
of robbers. Archbishop Vincent Concessao did not agree that killers
had come to rob as they did not touch any valuables or cash. He
believed it to be the work of hard core communal elements.
(The Times of India, the Hindu, the Hindustan Times, the Statesman,
the India Express 8/06/2000 New Delhi)
*
June 8, 2000.
Wadi, Gulbarga in the State of Karnataka.
Two bomb explosions at Catholic Church at Wadi shocked the small
Christian community in Wadi. The first blast occurred around 6.05 in
the morning on the left side of the church while the second bomb went
off in the front of the building three hours later. One person was
injures and there was intensive damage to the building. The bombs were
connected to timers.
(The Hindu, the Hindustan Times, the India Express, 9/06/2000, New
Delhi)
*
June 8, 2000.
Ongole in the State of Andhra Pradesh.
In the Jewitt Memorial Baptist Church in the coastal town of Ongole, a
timer-triggered bomb exploded at 8.15 am after the morning service.
Three persons were injured. If the bomb had exploded earlier when the
congregation was on many would have died.
(The Hindu, the Hindustan Times, the India Express, 9/06/2000, New
Delhi)
*
June 8, 2000.
Tadepalligudem, West Godavri in the State of Andhra Pradesh.
The Mother Vannini Catholic Church was targeted to explode a bomb of
the same type as blasted in Ongole early today. Earlier in Andhra
Pradesh, churches in Machilipatnam, Vijaywada, Vicarabad and Medak
became targets of bomb attacks.
(The Hindu, the Hindustan Times, the India Express, 9/06/2000, New
Delhi)
*
June 8, 2000.
Vasco in th State of Goa.
St. Andrews Church in south Goa became a target of another bomb
explosion. The bomb blast damaged a portion of the church building.
Interestingly, the RSS and the BJP declared that these bomb attacks
were the handiwork of the ISI, the Pakistan Intelligence network.
(The Hindu, the Hindustan Times, the India Express, 9/06/2000, New
Delhi)
June 10.
Jalandhar in the state of Punjab.
In the first killing of its kind in Punjab a 25 year old Christian
missionary, Ashish Prabash was murdered and his body set on fire, in
his rented room in Urban Estate Phase-1 area of Jalandhar on June 10.
The body was found after his nighbours informed the police on seeng
smoke coming out of his room.
Police as usual ruled out any communal angle. However, Rev Sam George,
President of the Punjab Religious Council said, " I am absolutely sure
that this is a murder for which the anti-Christian movement is
responsible. He had played an important role in organizing the prayer
meetings and was well known as a preacher because of his work in rural
areas."
(The Times of India, the Indian Express, the Hindu 12-13/05/2000, New
Delhi)
*
June 12, 2000.
Hyderabad in the State of Andhra Pradesh.
A 30 member strong Christian delegation consisting of Rev Fr.Hendry
D’Souza, Rev Fr. B. Julian, Chancellor and Vicar General respectively
of the Hyderabad Archdiocese representing the Catholics, A. Vijay
Kumar, President, Baptist Churches Association of India, C. Francis,
Vice President, All India Catholic union, Sam Paul of All India
Christian Council, representing all Protestant denominations, Rev D.
John Augustine, Rev Y. Thomas and Fr. G. Gnananandam, priests incharge
of Ongole, Vikarabad and Tadepallegudem churches which were attacked
recently in Andhra Pradesh met the Chief Minister, Chandrababu Naidu
in Hyderabad on June 12. The Christian leaders informed the Chief
Minister about 36 incidents taking place in the state of Andhra
Pradesh so far, and not mere 6 as being reported.
The delegation was informed by the Director General of Police, HJ Dora
that even in the 6 reported incidents of attacks on Christians, there
was no breakthrough so far as identifying the culprits was concerned.
(Reported in the Hindu, 13/6/2000, New Delhi)
June 12, 2000
Vishrampuri, Jagdalpur in the State of Madhya Pradesh.
A Christian Pastor Rajendra Masih (22) was beaten up and paraded
through the Vishrampuri village by a group of Hindu fanatic youths
opposed to Christians in the area. The hooglins also shaved off the
head of the young Pastor. It was alleged that Pastor was attempting to
convert people to Christianity.
(The Hindustan Times, the Hindu and the Times of India,15/6/2000, New
Delhi)
BJP admirer
#5 9th February 2003, 08:41 AM
unknown
Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 296
BJP : The Myth of Communal Party - Is It A Crime to Be Natio
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
044760319
#42242
By [B]Anonymous (62.252.64.7)[/B] on [B]Sunday, February 09, 2003 -
03:11 am[/B]
RE : karam
You are an idiot.
What would you have, india go to war with pakistan and then find out
pakistan has a bomb?
Also, internationalilse kashmir?
What make you think any one else abroad actually cares about kashmir?
There are people who have said they would not care if pakistan and
india used such weapons on each other, so long as it does not affect
them.
Kashmir is only a concern should it interfere with others designs, not
because of any thing else.
Also, have you considered that america is taking india seriously,
possibly for the first time, because it did explode those bombs?
Pakistan has been causing trouble in india for the last fifty years,
which incidently started under congress rule. They should have been
dealt with then, but ghandhi or nehru were not really leaders, but two
people full of themselves who thought that they new better than every
one else. China, in 1962, taught nehru how little he really new.
The ideas of congress hadbeen influential on india for 45 years after
independence, look at the result of that influence.
With other nations being aggressive and pursuing their own interests,
how long do you think india would last against fierce nationalism from
china, and trickery and deceit from pakistan, and as it is now
looking, from bangladesh?
You want to assign blame for what has happened in india, look no
furthure than the congress party, and the "father", ( india is more
than fifty years old ) of the nation and his diciples.
unknown
View Public Profile
Find all posts by unknown
#6 3rd May 2006, 08:18 PM
Arif M. Posts: n/a
BJP : The Myth of Communal Party - Is It A Crime to Be Natio
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
146664098
#48831
By [B]Arif M.[/B] on [B]Wednesday, May 03, 2006 - 01:48 pm[/B]
First, what's Nationalism? It's surging the nation (whether it's
Bangladesh, Iraq or India) forward on all spheres of life and
expanding and consoladating the nation's foothold in the national and
global sociopolitical/ economic arena against short run derailment
incentives offered by certain foreign powers...
The BJP is by no means a nationalist party. If they were, they
would've surged local industry forward. They would've solidified
India's industrial infra and taken India abroad rather than killing
Indian companies and bringing foreign companies in. Especially
considering India has a well established and an extremely well
connected public sector industry nationwide.
TO translate this in numbers, take a look at any govt. economic
gazette and look at the size of public sector/ national industry
before and during BJP rule. These guys didn't take out a nail- they
tore down the entire damned limb! Thanks to the BJP, 90% of Indian
soft drinks are supplied by foreign MNCs, among others. If I made a
long list, I'd be writing a bloody saga.
I know the congress is no alternative here, but the BJP's killing of
the local industry has in effect put an enormous pressure on any
future govt. when dealing with MNCs because they've already made a
deep inroad into our economy, thanks to these "nationalists."
That too, in the BJP regime, the MNCs were allowed to come inside
INdia without ANY scrutiny whatsoever. Remember all those dead lizards
and condom packs in pepsi bottles? Did you ever see this in our good
ol' 777 or Campa or Gold Spot??
Under the BJP, the free power scheme was scrapped and the govt just
abandoned inhouse industry. SO much for nationalism, eh?
The choice to bring in Skanska for the natl. highways project was a
dubious decision for a "nationalist" party. Larsen and Turbo could've
easily done the job.
According to the BJP, India and US are "natural allies." Ha ha, hows
that?! Haven't we seen how the US deals with developing countries? Or
is the BJP just more concerned about their achievements in 5 years
they stay in power???
Look at ANY ADB/ WB country report (for the years the BJP was in
office) to see how many times the BJP has implemented anti populist
policies and folded to intl' pressure. I think the free power scheme
was scrapped under the BJP. The BJP has the dubious distinction of
accepting ALL of ADB/ WB demands. Not a protest was lodged at any time
to ANY WB AND ADB demand...!
Last but not least, I almost became a BJP supporter when we detonated
the nuke- but lost all respect after Mr. Vajapayee wrote a LETTER OF
EXPLANATION TO BILL CLINTON as to why we need a nuke. ANyone read the
text?? It's like an employee writing an absence letter to his boss.
That's very nationalist, isin't it???
The BJP's concept of the Hinduvta is also a bit confusing. It smells
more like Amerkivta to me. Like the whole Natl. Highways project. A
HUGE WB/ADB loan was taken. Now these donors will choke our economy
and kill our infant industries with more force than ever possible
before- thank you oh so called "Nationalists." Bah! If the BJP was so
nationalist, they shoulda generated the funds by making PSUs more
profitable. Hell, that's what governments are there for. If it was
just a matter of borrowing a loan, even I could've
done that...
Each night I pray that the BJP never returns to power, else we might
see an AMerican airbase in Chennai or something. Thanks to the BJP,
India now resembles an ex-SEATO puppet rather than a world power...
http://hindustan.net/forums/showthread.php?t=255
Democracy Working: Sid Harth
Democracy was born in Roman Culture. It is, however, perfected in
America. American founding fathers chose only Republic for their newly
created country, not a Monarchy. Such foresight is not seen around
today in the newly created countries, whose independence was due to
the struggle, war or sanctions from the previous powers. Sid Harth
Iran War Threat: Sid Harth
Text of H. Con. Res. 33, the "Iran War Powers" Resolution
Below is the text of the "Iran War Powers" resolution, introduced by
Rep. Peter DeFazio on January 16, 2007, with 19 original co-sponsors.
Please write to your representative, urging him or her to support this
resolution to help prevent a war with Iran. Take Action»
H. CON. RES. 33
Expressing the sense of Congress that the President should not
initiate military action against Iran without first obtaining
authorization from Congress
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVESMr. DEFAZIO submitted the following
concurrent resolution.
CONCURRENT RESOLUTION
Expressing the sense of Congress that the President should not
initiate military action against Iran without first obtaining
authorization from Congress
Whereas Article I, Section 8 of the United States Constitution grants
Congress the power “to declare war,” to lay and collect taxes, to
“provide for the common defense” and general welfare of the United
States, to “raise and support armies,” to “provide and maintain a
navy,” to “make rules for the regulation for the land and naval
forces,” to “provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws
of the Union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions,” to “provide
for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia,” and to “make
all laws necessary and proper for carrying into execution . . .
all . . . powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the
United States”;
Whereas the Constitution also grants Congress exclusive power over the
purse, “No money shall be drawn from the Treasury but in consequence
of appropriations made by law”;
Whereas the sole war power granted to the executive branch through the
President can be found in Article II, Section 2, which states, “The
President shall be the Commander-in-Chief of the Army and Navy of the
United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called
into actual Service of the United States . . .”;
Whereas President George W. Bush and his Administration have argued
that this “Commander-in-Chief” clause grants the President wide
latitude to engage United States military forces abroad without prior
authorization from Congress;
Whereas the President further argues that previous unilateral actions
by presidents of both political parties add credence to this
interpretation of the Constitution;
Whereas in reality, nothing in the history of the ‘‘Commander- in-
Chief’’ clause suggests that the authors of the provision intended it
to grant the executive branch the authority to engage United States
forces in military action without any prior authorization from
Congress, except to allow the President to repel sudden attacks and
immediate threats;
Whereas in the Federalist Paper Number 69, while comparing the lesser
war-making power of the United States President versus the King of
Great Britain, Alexander Hamilton wrote, “. . . the President is to be
commander-in-chief of the Army and Navy of the United States. In this
respect his authority would be nominally the same with that of the
King of Great Britain, but in substance much inferior to it. It would
amount to nothing more than the supreme command and direction of the
military and naval forces, as first General and admiral of the
Confederacy; while that of the British king extends to the declaring
of war and to raising and regulating of fleets and armies, all which,
by the Constitution under consideration, would appertain to the
legislature.”;
Whereas James Madison declared that it is necessary to adhere to the
“fundamental doctrine of the Constitution that the power to declare
war is fully and exclusively vested in the legislature”;
Whereas in 1793, President George Washington, when considering how to
protect inhabitants of the American frontier, instructed his
Administration that “no offensive expedition of importance can be
undertaken until after [Congress] have deliberated upon the subject,
and authorized such a measure”;
Whereas in 1801, Thomas Jefferson sent a small squadron of frigates to
the Mediterranean to protect against possible attacks by the Barbary
powers; he told Congress that he was “unauthorized by the
Constitution, without the sanction of Congress, to go beyond the line
of defense.”; and he further noted that it was up to Congress to
authorize “measures of offense also”;
Whereas with respect to Iran, according to the most definitive United
States intelligence report, Iran is several years away from developing
a nuclear weapon, and even the most pessimistic analysis by outside
experts puts the timeline at least three years away, assuming Iran
suffers no setbacks during development, which would be unprecedented;
Whereas diplomatic efforts involving Iran, the United States, the
European Union, Russia, the People’s Republic of China, the
International Atomic Energy Agency, and theUnited Nations Security
Council continue; and
Whereas, despite these diplomatic efforts and statements by President
Bush and other members of his Administration that diplomacy is the
preferred route, there are an increasing number of reports that
preparations for war are underway: Now, therefore, be it
Resolved by the House of Representatives (the Senate concurring), That
Congress—
(1) strongly believes initiating military action against Iran without
congressional approval does not fall within the President’s
‘‘Commander-in-Chief’’ powers under the Constitution;
(2) rejects any suggestion that Public Law107–40, the authorization of
force resolution approved in response to the terrorist attacks of
September 11, 2001, explicitly or implicitly, extends to authorizing
military action against Iran, including over its nuclear program;
(3) rejects any suggestion that Public Law 107–243, the authorization
of force resolution approved by Congress to go to war with Iraq,
explicitly or implicitly, extends to authorizing military action
against Iran, including over its nuclear program; and
(4) strongly and unequivocally believes that seeking congressional
authority prior to taking military action against Iran is not
discretionary, but is a legal and constitutional requirement.
...and I am Sid Harth
Posted by sillysallysidallycattyrattybattynaughty at 8:25 PM
http://www.blogbharti.com/category/dalit/ I found...
Daliths and the Christianity
Dr.JRP Posted: 31 January 2007 06:29 AM [ Ignore ]
Newbie
Total Posts: 2
Joined 2007-01-29 Dr.J.Rathan Prabhakar
M.com, M.Phil, Ph.D
Founder President,
Center for Christian Rights and Social Responsibility
Hellow
…..
“Why does the global Human Rights organizations including al most all
Indian organizations keep silence on freedom of religion about 150
million of untouchables called Scheduled castes who are unable to
enjoy their rights provided by the government of India”.
“An official statistics says that the Christian population is 0nly 3%…
It is true that more than 15%of the population accepted Christianity…
and living as hidden Christians due to the discrimination shown by the
government on the grounds of caste which is absolutely contrary to the
Indian constitution”
The religious persecutions can be stopped and are very few in number…
but…the discrimination against religion based on caste is silent, big
and critical in nature and against the article 18 of the Universal
declaration of the Human rights”
“The discrimination on the grounds of caste is inhuman and need to be
changed “
Yes…it is a plight of 150 millions of untouchables…who are deprived of
freedom of religion… let them worship their God”
[color=red]The Indian Population is nearly I Billion of which the
Scheduled Castes and Tribes are more than 25% of the population..
Before the Independence they were not allowed to enter Hindu Temples
and they are treated as Untouchables. During the British Period these
people were attracted to Christianity, which treated all equally.
They are converted and accepted Lord Jesus as their God.
After Independence the Indian Government had appointed a
constitutional body lead by Dr. B.R. Ambedkar him self a dalith. Any
act against the Fundamental Rights is considered to be against the
Article 13 of our constitution. The Article 25(1) of Indian
Constitution provides freedom of Religion and says that any citizens
can follow their own Religion. As per the Article 23 (2) of the
Constitution, the government should not discriminate the citizens on
the grounds of Religion, caste, creed and group. The third Para of the
article 341of the Indian constitution clearly demonstrates that the
Daliths (untouchables) who follow Hindu Religion are classified as
Scheduled Castes and are entitled to avail the benefits of the
reservations, but the Daliths (untouchables) who follow other
religions like Islam, Christianity Buddhist and Sikh were not allowed
to avail the reservation benefits. Again the third Para of the said
article 341 was amended in 1956 and 1990 and accordingly both Sikh and
the Buddhist Daliths were also treated as Schedule castes. The
constitution provides the freedom of Religion on one side and on the
other side it is discriminating the Daliths on the basis of religion,
which is against to the secular doctrine of the constitution. With
this discrimination, those daliths who follow Christian and Islam
religions are losing their constitutional rights.
Further the Government of India stated that the Scheduled Castes have
right to enjoy reservations except those SCs those who are converted
from Hindu, Buddha, and Sikh religions to Christianity they are not
eligible to enjoy reservations provided and they are not be treated as
SCs. As far as caste is concerned the daliths belong to all religions
are same,
If they accept Christianity they will not be treated as SCs and bound
to lose all benefits of reservations in the field of education and
employment.
It is very interesting to know that an informal survey reveals that in
India more than 100 million of people who belong to SC are worshiping
Lord Jesus. But the official statistics says that only 30 Million
people are Christians. As a matter of fact the majority section of
people that attend the church are SCs.Take for an example Mr.”X” and
Mr.”Y” are by caste they are scheduled castes or daliths and both
Mr.”X” and Mr”Y” are teammates in church choir. To enjoy reservations
in Education and Employment Mr.”X” family is unwillingly, forced to
write their religion as Hindu behind their caste. So, they are
eligible to enjoy the reservations if they put their religion as Hindu
or Sikh or Buddhist. As far as caste concerned both Mr.”X and Mr.”Y”
is the same, but according to the religion both are different (As per
the records). Mr.”Y”can keep Bible in his home, he can attend Church
openly, but Mr.”X” cannot able to do so. Most of the Scheduled castes
are facing this problem. To avail the benefits of the reservations,
they attend churches secretly, they worship god with all their heart
and soul, they are accepting Lord Jesus as their savior but they are
living as hidden Christians. More than 75% of SCs are facing this
problem. In this connection we want to make a request to the people
and the national leaders to abide by the article 25 (1) of Indian
constitution that provides freedom of religion and Article 23 (2) of
the constitution that says that the Government should not discriminate
the citizens on the grounds of religion, caste creed, and group.
The above situation has been prevailing in the Indian Society due to
the above said reasons.
The Center for Christian Rights and social responsibility is the first
and only one organization working for the attainment of freedom of
religion to the scheduled castes in a peaceful manner, and aimed to
make awareness among the Indian people as well as the rulers on the
discrimination against religion being shown by the government towards
Scheduled Caste or Dalith People who deprived of liberty of
religion.
Since this issue belongs to a social inequality and religious
disparity we request to recognize this issue as a violation of human
rights.
bademiyansubhanallah Posted: 04 February 2007 11:47 AM [ Ignore ]
[ # 1 ]
Newbie
Total Posts: 1
Joined 2007-02-04
My dear Dr. J. Rathan prabhakar,
I fully agree with your sentiments. Dalits or untouchables, when
change their religious beliefs do not, all of a sudden, tranfer
themselves into established, accepted Hindu varnas. It is simply
impossible.
When they could not get any kind of justice, when their proper and
properly presented grievances did not get addressed and/or were not
noticed or registered in the legal systems of those olde days when
even for asking justice against the law abiding society was a crime,
if not all, but many accepted the umbrella provided by the
missionaries who not oly heard the same grievances patiently and
prepared these untouchables to accept Hindu religious code of varna
system and their best efforts to alliviate untouchabes concerns into
concrete actions which might have given the unhappy untouchables to
stay in the Hindu fold.
Alas, that was not to be as the history proves the fact that by simple
conversion of faith, former untouchables became ordinary members of
Christian groups within the overall Indian community. This simple
acceptance of Crhistianity by removing themselves as free laborers,
more like society’s unpaid coolies for the jobs nobody wanted to
perform.
Christian missionaries, as a group, also found it next to impossible
to make these tired untouchables into happy Chrisians, as fomer slave
mentality came in a way. Education, respect, confidance in the long
process of being considered as equal to the previously converted
untouchable Chrisiasns and/or foreign Christians took very long time.
The path was strewn with difficulties unknown to the former
untouchables as new faith did not have magical powers that could make
illiterate and unskilled in anything but their own family trades good
law abiding citizens.
History of a long and arduous march on the part of the former
untouchabls and patience and perseverity on the parts of the foreign
missionaries is replete with heroic efforts made by both sides. There
is no such thing as elimination of backwardness of the entire
neglected society by a new and improved law, as in case of the Indian
constitutional lawforbidding all Hindus from discrimination against
these very untouchables.
laws remain on the books and seldom implimented i he real situaitions.
Higher class officers under whose responsibilities and government
mandate and dictates Utouchables saw very real improvement in their
sad lives. Therefore, Christians, Muslims, Buddhist, Sikhs, the
religions which acceppted former Hindu untouchables cannot and must
not fight with the law that considered non Hindu untouchables not
falling into a very strict and very rigid definition of backwardness.
There is just one thing other untouchables could do and better do soon
is use their political powers, their representation in the parliament
and make the pwers that be heard. Untouchability is gone but the
centuries old backwardness is lng way to be a history.
Fight with whatever means ne can gather and try. There is nothing to
lose if they do not win.
Sid Harth
pratelliz Posted: 21 October 2009 09:03 AM [ Ignore ] [ # 2 ]
Newbie
Total Posts: 1
Joined 2009-10-21 Hi,Any further updates on this thread? Hope to see
more replies one of these days,especially feedbacks from the thread
starter. Seems like this thread has been inactive for such a long
time. Think topic should be closed.
Regards,
pratelliz
http://www.dalitnetwork.org/go?/forums/viewthread/3
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.Prof. Jagan Nath Azad: Creator of Pakistan’s First National Anthem
Posted on June 5, 2009
Filed Under >Adil Najam, History, People, Poetry
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Share Adil Najam
I am very glad that some of our readers did recognize Prof. Jaganath
Azad in our recent ATP Quiz. I am not surprised that others did not.
As I had mentioned in the post, I would not have done so had it not
been for a wonderful post by Zakintosh on his blog.
I am ashamed that until recently I did not know who Jagan Nath Azad
was, or what he did. I am glad that I now know. I hope you are too.
First, the basics: Jagannath Azad (1918-2004) was an Urdu poet, a
Punjabi Hindu, and a scholar of Iqbal’s poetry who, on the direct
invitation of Mohammad Ali Jinnah, wrote Pakistan’s first national
anthem, which remained Pakistan’s official anthem for its first year-
and-half and whose first lines were as follows:
Aé sarzameené paak
Zarray teray haéñ aaj sitaaroñ se taabnaak
Roshan haé kehkashaañ se kaheeñ aaj tayree khaak
Aé sarzameené paak
Jagan Nath Azad was born in 1918 in Isa Khel in the Punjab (later of
Atta Ullah Khan Eesakhelvi fame), he studied at Gordon College in
Rawalpindi, and the University of the Punjab in Lahore. At the time of
partition in 1947, he was a journalist and a poet living in Lahore.
Mr. Jinnah asked him to write a new national anthem for Pakistan. The
anthem was used for 18 months, until it was replaced (after Mr.
Jinnah’s death). Some time after writing the national anthem, he
migrated to India, where from 1977 to 1980 he was a Professor of Urdu
and head of Urdu department at the Unversity of Jammu. Prof. Azad was
a noted authority on the works of Dr. Allama Mohammad Iqbal. He was
awarded the President of Pakistan’s gold medal for his services to
Urdu literature.
After reading Zakintosh’s post on Prof. Azad, I tried to find out more
about him. I could not find any lines to the original anthem beyond
the ones he quoted (which are also quoted elsewhere), but I did find
much interesting information, including this very interesting speech
by him on India-Pakistan relations:
WPvideo 1.10
hum nay zameen taqseem ki hai, dillouN ko to taqseem naheen ki
Some more detail on the anthem was available in a report in the Daily
Times (June 2005):
Days before his death last year, Azad recalled, in an interview, the
circumstances under which he was asked by Jinnah to write Pakistan’s
national anthem: “In August 1947, when mayhem had struck the whole
subcontinent, I was in Lahore working in a literary newspaper.
All my relatives had left for India and for me to think of leaving
Lahore was painful. My Muslim friends requested me to stay. On August
9, 1947, there was a message from Jinnah Sahib through one of my
friends at Radio Pakistan Lahore. He told me ‘Quaid-e-Azam wants you
to write a national anthem for Pakistan.’”
Why him? “The answer to this question,” Azad said in the interview,
“has to be understood by recalling the inaugural speech of Jinnah
Sahib as Pakistan’s governor general. He said: “You will find that in
the course of time, Hindus will cease to be Hindus and Muslims will
cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense because that is the
personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as
citizens of the state.”
I asked my friends why Jinnah Sahib wanted me to write the anthem.
They confided in me that “the Quaid wanted the anthem to be written by
an Urdu-knowing Hindu.” Through this, I believe Jinnah Sahib wanted to
sow the roots of secularism in a Pakistan.”
But the real gems were to be found in a very interesting article about
Prof. Jagannath Azad in Dawn, by Ashfaque Naqvi, written in June 2004.
It really is worth reading in full:
I saw Tilok Chand Mehroom when still at school in Lahore and was
greatly impressed by his personality. A tall, robust, figure, dressed
in a long coat with a ‘lungi’, he had long whiskers. He looked every
inch a Muslim, but I was told that he was a Hindu and headmaster of a
school in Mianwali, the place to which he belonged. And then I read
his poems which happened to be in our Urdu textbooks. One was about
the pathetic condition of the last resting place of the Mughal
empress, Nur Jahan. I still remember two of its touching lines:
Din ko bhi yahan shab ki siyahi ka saman heh
Kehtey hein keh yeh maqbara-e-noor-e-jahan heh
Well, that was long before partition. Even in those days his son,
Isakhel born, Jagan Nath Azad was counted among the prominent poets of
the Punjab. It is not commonly known that after the establishment of
Pakistan, the first national song (qaumi tarana as we like to call it)
broadcast from Radio Pakistan was not by Hafeez Jallandhri or Faiz
Ahmed Faiz but by a Hindu called Jagan Nath Azad. It ran like this:
Aey sarzameen-i-pak
Zarrey terey hein aaj sitaron sey tabnak
Roshan heh kehkashan sey kahin aaj teri khak
His devotion to Allama Iqbal has been intriguing for many. But then,
he has himself said:
Merey yaqeen ko dekh amal par nazar na kar
Mera yaqeen heh daulat-eeman liye huey
Ahl-i-haram mujhey na hiqarat se dekhna
Kafir hun eik qalb-e-Musalman liye huey
I am grateful to Dr Syed Moeenur Rehman for sending me books which
keep adding to my knowledge. It is never too late to learn, as they
say. I knew a lot about Jagan Nath Azad but the book sent by him tells
me much more about him. It is the thesis written by one of his
students, Aasma Aziz, for her master’s in Urdu. Somehow, it has been
printed and produced by Crescent House Publications of Jammu in
Occupied Kashmir. It only deals with Jagan Nath Azad as a prose
writer.
Third in line after the more famous Azads - Maulana Muhammad Hussain
and Maulana Abul Kalam - Jagan Nath was born in 1918. After doing his
MA in Persian from the Punjab University in 1944, he served in
different capacities in some Urdu and English newspapers. He also
remained assistant editor of the important Urdu journal, Adabi Dunya.
After serving for a while as a lecturer of Urdu at Lahore’s DAV
College, he moved to Delhi after partition. Securing a job in the
Press Information Department, he was posted to Srinagar. Offered the
professorship of Urdu in the Jammu University, he moved there in 1977.
After retirement, he continues to be there as professor emeritus for
life.
Jagan Nath Azad has been attending mushairas and delivering lectures
and has written about most of his foreign trips. However, while
writing about Pakistan he never calls it a foreign country. Even Gen.
Ziaul Haq told him that he should consider it to be his own country
and come here whenever he felt like it. He openly accepts that the
reception he receives in Pakistan is totally different from what he
experiences in other countries. His love for Pakistan is evident from
his verse:
Sham key saey mein Jamna ki ravani dekh kar
Mujhko aey Azad Ravi ka saman yad aa gaya
Jagan Nath Azad has won several awards from Pakistan, India, Russia
and other countries. For the naats composed by him, he was given the
Seerat-i-Pak Award by Bradford Publications of UK. Not only that,
Jagan Nath Azad has written a long poem condemning the destruction of
the Babri Mosque. Says he:
Hamarey dil ko tora hey imarat ko nahin tora
Khabasat ki bhi had hoti hey aey had torney waley
The books authored by Jagan Nath Azad include some on literary
criticism while about eleven, both in English and Urdu, are on Iqbal.
It would be interesting to know that soon after partition, Iqbal was
almost banned in India. It was only through the efforts of Jagan Nath
Azad that Iqbal is as highly respected there today as Khusrau, Meer or
Ghalib. Even in Pakistan, it was Jagan Nath Azad’s whisper into the
ears of Gen Ziaul Haq that led to the establishment of the Iqbal Chair
in the Punjab University.
Many Indians, like Iqbal Singh and Hira Lal Chopra, have done
extensive work on Iqbal. Dr Chaman Lal Raina has gone to the extent of
converting his verses into Hindi. On his part, Dr Rafiq Zakaria,
former chancellor of the Urdu University in Aligarh, has written a
full book under the title, Iqbal: The Poet and the Politician, in
which he has expressed surprise why Iqbal is not revered in India.
It goes to the credit of Jagan Nath Azad that he has all along tried
to emphasise the fact that great and durable poetry transcends all
barriers of caste, creed and colour. Being a humanist, Iqbal’s poetry
echoes the sentiments and feelings of humanity at large. There is no
denying that he has championed the cause of the exploited and
oppressed people of the world.
I hope you read the above in full. Even as I read it for the third
time, I am amazed at much of what is written here.
After reading that - especially the verses, one was left wanting more.
So, let me leave you with this video of Prof. Azad from a mushaira -
including some remarks and verses about Pakistan:
WPvideo 1.10
35 comments posted
Comment Pages: « 5 4 3 2 [1]
Sid Harth says:June 5th, 2009 9:21 am There is nothing new about this
information. I was familiar with it for a very long time. Religious
fanatics cannot write or compose the national anthems.
…and I am Sid arth
MQ says:June 5th, 2009 9:01 am Interesting! I never knew that there
was also another, the first, anthem of Pakistan, and that it was
written by a Hindu poet. It clearly shows that Jinnah did not look at
things through the Islamic prism, as we are made to believe by the
current crop of “maulanas” and some of the “media mujahideen”.
By the way, even the current Pakistani anthem is devoid of any
religious vocabulary. In fact, it clearly says at one place that
system of governance of Pakistan (Pak sarzameen ka nizam) will be the
strength and brotherhood of its people . It did not occur to anyone
then to insert “sharia” or whatever in the anthem. Obviously, the
sharia bug bit Pakistan much later.
sheepoo says:June 5th, 2009 9:00 am Amazing!
Inspiring!
Nostalgic!
Thanks for posting this piece
Naeem says:June 5th, 2009 6:53 am What a great post. How informative.
Thank you for educating us on our history. I am very glad that
Pakistan did honor him with a medal. Whatever his final choice, his
love for Pakistan still is there as we can see in his poetry here.
Asma says:June 5th, 2009 5:45 am Amazing article. I did know that
present anthem was not Pakistan’s first anthem but never heard about
Prof. Jagan Nath Azad. Another interesting interview of his I found
here.
Quaid e Azam tried his best to make a country in which people will
live without religious and ethnic discrimination. Unfortunately,
Pakistan is still struggling ‘coz of these two factors. Ethnic
discrimination made it cry once and religious extremism is playing its
part now. Sad.
Thanks again for sharing real legends.
BTW, does anyone else here think that present anthem is more of
martial nature? IMHO, its very well balanced anthem.
Saba Ali says:June 5th, 2009 2:09 am Do you have the words of the full
tarana by Mr. Azad.
Excellent post. This is the type of educational stuff that makes ATP a
cut above all the rest of blogs.
Jalal HB says:June 5th, 2009 1:41 am I was pleased to see mention of
one great man, almost forgotten in making history of Pakistan, Prof J
N Azad. And I must thank you for keeping his name alive as the first
person who wrote the national anthem of pakistan specially on the
request of the Quaid.
While I was writing my section of national anthem in my website
Pakistanpaedia some three years back, I also included his name to pay
homage to him and keep the history as it happened and not as so many
of us know otherwise.
Please see the Making of the national anthem of Pakistan in my website
at:
http://www.pakistanpaedia.com/gop/national_anthem- pakistan.html
Thanks once again for keeping name of Prof J N Azad alive, duly
attributed.
ASAD says:June 5th, 2009 1:35 am WOW. I am spellbound. How much we do
not know. Thank you for sharing this. I still have to digest all this
information before I really comment. But amazing poetry also and all
the information.
AftaabAnsari says:June 6th, 2009 1:43 am My fellow Pakistanis,
This wonderful posting by Adilsaab is a poignant reminder to us all to
cherish the contributions of our fellow Pakistanis, Muslim or
otherwise.
Jinnah’s secular vision has been laid waste by the military-mullah
complex. Historians will debate what he wanted (secular/theocratic),
but the fact is he was simply too sick and exhausted to implement
whatever his vision was.
Ultimately, it’s up to us to create a secular state that does not hang
a sword over the necks of Hindus and Christians by means of the
blasphemy laws. Zardari is too weak to do this, Nawaz never will and
Musharraf couldn’t.
Adilsaab, please
1. Highlight in a posting sometime the need for us to reconstruct the
Pakistani Hindu temples demolished in ‘92 as a reaction to the Babri
crime across the border.
2. Highlight in a posting sometime the need for
us to IMMEDIATELY REMOVE the derogatory references to Hindus is
Pakistani textbooks - this truly makes me ashamed of my country’s
state-supported bigotry.
Aftaab
Proud Pakistani
AftaabAnsari says:June 6th, 2009 1:28 am Maarif, where on earth did
you get the information that Prof. Azad converted to Islam?
I’m certain that’s not true - Azad died a Hindu.
His wife’s name was Bimla, and his son is Adarsh - it’s a Hindu
family.
See link below:
http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/web1/06jan10/state.h tm#3
Please source your statements properly. Also, the obvious - why did he
leave Pakistan unless he had to because of anti-Hindu violence in
1947-48?
Maarif Sohail says:June 6th, 2009 1:09 am I wonder if people are aware
of the fact that Prof. Jagan Naath Azad Sahab had married a Muslim
lady and apparently reverted to Islam.
Sawan says:June 5th, 2009 5:54 pm Thank you for digging this out for
us. I knew Prof. Jagan Nath Azad as an Urdu literary person but did
not know that he wrote the first National Anthem for Pakistan. Thank
you for sharing the forgotten history.
Ghazala Khan says:June 5th, 2009 10:51 am It’s very nice to know Prof
Nath. Atta man.
Adnan Ahmad says:June 5th, 2009 10:37 am I commented in the previous
post about the tragedy that continues to unfold from Jinnah�s passing
away while the country was in its infancy. But reading this post
reminds me of perhaps Ashfaq Ahmed�s best work, his short story
(afsaanaa) titled �gadariya� (shepherd). My heart gets heavy just by
remembering that story. One wouldn�t be surprised if he had some real
life figure like Jagannath in his mind for the main character.
Mere mention of Zia in this post makes me sick.
Aliya says:June 5th, 2009 10:05 am By the way, loved the poetry from
him he recited in the second video.
Aliya says:June 5th, 2009 10:04 am Very informative and excellent that
you are highlighting this. Although on this I am glad that the govt of
Pakistan has honored him for his services and he had no bitterness.
I would love to find out the words of the entire anthem he wrote if
possible.
Syed Hasan Shahid Bukhari says:June 7th, 2009 1:44 am The Idea of a
“Secular” Pakistan, I repeat, is the Negation of the very Ideals of
Pakistan.
Because, Pakistan was created, for the Muslims of the British Ruled
Indian Subcontinent…
Do you fail to understand that there would have been no sense in
having a Separate home land for the Muslims… A Pakistan based on
ethenic, economic, political, or geographic etc. differences with the
Hindus.
We needed a separate homeland, because wof the Need of our Identity…
Based in the world’s greatest Heritage.
Neena says:June 6th, 2009 9:25 pm Thanks Adil for such an enlightening
post.
Indscribe-you said Unfortunately I don�t find literary Urdu magazines
from Pakistan available online.
Sadly, I think there isn’t much going on in Urdu literary world in
Pakistan, if I’m wrong then someone please correct me.
Indscribe says:June 6th, 2009 6:27 pm I think I was the first who
cracked this ATP quiz. Let me pat my back myself.
I had the honour to meett Azad Sahab a couple of times. His nazm on
the demolition of Babri Masjid is a masterpiece. Nobody else could
write it except him.
Azad’s greatness lies not just in the fact that he was the biggest
ambassador for Iqbal and Iqbaliyaat in India, but also he spoke of
Iqbal when no one dared to take his name in India.
Immeidately after partition, it was a different and hostile period.
Muslims didn’t take his name as Iqbal was termed a Islamic poet who
conceived the idea of Pakistan.
In those times, Jagannath Azad, not just took Iqbal’s name but he also
ensured that Iqbal’s name was taken at every forum with the respect it
deserves.
He championed Iqbal like none and later the fiza got changed as
Allama’s place was restored, not just as the man who wrote Tarana-e-
Hindi but also a towering poet of the sub-continent.
Nearly 2-3 years back I had written about Azad on a post on my blog
where I had mentioned his Tarana for Pakistan, and specially his Nazm,
‘Bharat ke Musalmaan’ written after partition, which urged Muslims to
forget the past and claim the nation as their own.
http://www.anindianmuslim.com/2006/07/jagannath-az ads-verse-bharat-
ke.html
Azad was himself a wonderful poet. Jagannath Azad didn’t embrace
Islam, as a comment suggets. I think he got confused with Malik Ram.
—————————————————————–
As far as information about the first Tarana-e-Pakistan is concerned,
it is not so little-known either. Those interested in Urdu literature
are commonly aware about this fact.
At least Urdu literature is still not divided in India and Pakistan.
However, the Urdu literature walas are perhaps not as net-savvy.
The literary magazines keep publishing ‘khusoosi goshas’ on writers of
the past and such information also.
It’s not just Faiz or Faraz (or Insha) but poets like Iftikhar Arif or
even those of the recent past like Irfan Sattar are the poets of
entire Urdu world. Just like Indian poets Abdul Ahad Saaz,
Unfortunately I don’t find literary Urdu magazines from Pakistan
available online.
Gorki says:June 6th, 2009 3:40 pm Like many readers, I did not know
anything about Professor Azad either till a friend recently wrote
about him to me in a private mail.
There has been much discussion lately in the press; on several South
Asian blogs and in cyberspace whether Mr. Jinnah was a communalist or
a secular person and what his stated and unstated vision was, for the
nation of Pakistan.
His detractors both on the left and the right, dismiss his August 11th
1947 speech extolling a secular vision as nothing more than a speech.
However, his actions such as deliberately asking a Hindu Pakistani to
write the national anthem speaks louder than the words of his critics
and also shows him not only as a secular person but also a man of a
great vision. Indeed it is a tragedy of colossal proportions that Mr.
Jinnah died so soon.
However, nations can survive a great deal of tragedy and bad luck
provided it has two things; one, a national spirit that is truly
derived from the vision of great men and two, people willing to dig
deep to restore that vision even though tyrants may have attempted to
bury that spirit deep.
Not being a Pakistani myself, I do not feel it is proper for me to
name any names in the list of tyrants but certainly can count people
like my friend (who wrote to me about Jagannath Azad) and Professor
Najam as those kindred spirits who are currently engaged in restoring
the Pakistan of Jinnah�s vision; even if they do it one post or mail
at a time.
I read the post above and the comments of the readers with a sense of
fascination and realized one thing. Despite the recent troubles and
dire predictions, Pakistan is a country with too many open minded
thinkers and activists watching out for it and sooner or later the
liberal and rational society envisioned by Jinnah is bound to thrive
here.
It is not a society in decline; on the contrary it is a society on the
move, one whose best days are still ahead of it.
Keep it up Pakistaniat.
AftaabAnsari says:June 6th, 2009 3:27 pm A. Z.,
That’s wonderful that you met him!
Adilsaab/anyone else, can we PLEASE possibly get the full text of the
anthem composed by Azadsaab?
I have searched long and hard but it’s unavailable anywhere online.
Aftaab
Proud Pakistani
A.Z. Kifayat says:June 6th, 2009 11:14 am I am very glad to see this
story at this site. You are doing good work by highlighting this.
I have had pleasure of meeting Prof. Azad a few times before he died
during mushairas in the gulf area. He was a delightful man. And he
really loved Pakistan and Pakistanis. He had no bitterness at all. I
did not speak to him much about the anthem but we had many
conversations on his life.
First, he remained his own religion and this is nonsense about his
converting. I do not know why anyone would like to spread that lie.
Second, He did not leave Pakistan under any danger. Many many people
who migrated (including me) from one country to other did so many
months and years after 1947 because once things settled we found where
most of or families had decided to go, where work was, and so on and
that is how decisions were made. He made clear to us in many
conversations that he moved because many of his friends and family had
decided to settle in India and so did he. Remember, for him and my own
family also, we all had hoped that things will eventually settle and
people in the two countries would move around more easily than they
have.
I am very glad to see him being honored here. But please do not use a
dead man to advance propaganda like in some comments. Thank you.
Rizwan Khan says:June 6th, 2009 4:16 am “Also, the obvious - why did
he leave Pakistan unless he had to because of anti-Hindu violence in
1947-48?”
In fact if you listen to the video link in the article Prof. Jagannath
himself has clarified this point. He says that twice he came back to
Pakistan and was advised to return to India by his well wishers
because they were afraid for his life in Pakistan.
Mohammed Hassanali says:June 6th, 2009 4:08 am I wonder when the time
will come when Hindus will cease to be Hindus and Muslims will cease
to Muslims, ofcourse not in terms of faith but in terms of one nation,
not just in Pakistan but also in India and Bangladesh.
When that day comes (and I am sure that day will come even in
Bangladesh AND Pakistan and hopefully sooner than later) we the people
of Indian Sub-continent will be in a commanding position to lead the
world.
Maskeenel says:September 11th, 2009 11:05 am Sitam ki baat hai keh hum
pooray tariqai say Azad Sahib to sehra bhi naheen saktai.
Just a line from his composition does no justice to Mr. Azad.
What is wrong with the historians that they don’t even have the full
version of Pakistan’s 1st. Qumi Tarana.
Please trace it and publish it for those who have not been privileged
to this historical event. Thanks
Muhammad Obaidullah says:August 13th, 2009 10:39 am First of all I
want to congratulate the author of this article the one in Dawn for
such commendable work they have done. I was amazed that I din�t knew
who Jag Nath Azad was.
Now to the people who say Pakistan should not be a secular country. It
contradicts with the ideal of Pakistan.
I believe Pakistan should be secular; Islam is the most secular
religion in all religions. We Muslims have lived with all other
religion with dignity, harmony and peace for so many years. Therefore,
those who say Pakistan should not be secular than they are speaking
against Islam not in favour of Muslims. For a moment just think, what
is secularism and what are Islam teachings.
Adnan Ahmad says:June 11th, 2009 11:17 am It is a valid point that
both Urdu and Hindi get labeled as the Hindu or Muslim languages
whereas no one labels Tamil or Marathi or Sindhi as such. We are
talking about changing people’s psyche and that may take generations
to come.
Dr Abdul jami khan says:June 11th, 2009 10:38 am Evolution/linguistics
and Aryan-Semitic biblical racism and
India’s partition.
Dear all, We must look frwd because that is the reality but must learn
from from past; British created “hindu’s hindi” and muslim’s
urdu,based on scripts;and we all know all three scripts ,english,hindi/
sanskrit,urdu/arabic originated by mesopotamian farmers some 6ooo yers
ago; a well esablished fact;Also is well documented is the shared
origin of indo-arabo-
european languages from africa and mideast farmers. These ideas in my
book ” urdu/hindi an artificial divide –african
heritage–etc (reviewed in newspapers,tv shows) has changed
some hearts; British had concocted Indo-euro-aryan’s origin
from Noah’s son Japhet of bible ,now fully accepted as FICTIION;In
fact “semitic/Aryan “delusion is the root of all the
human tragedies we have seen in past 2 00 years. We must
realise that
the indian culture is not hindu nor arabic one is islamic;they
evolved as secular earthy phenonmenon and later hyjacked by
priestly delusions/fundamentalism of,jewish,hindu and muslim
variety;Cultural history based on evolution can bind india again
; The current tragadies may be a silver lining for indo-pak
reorganisation and peace of heart/shared culture/shared future.
Sameer says:June 9th, 2009 10:25 am Mr. Mohd. Hassanali,
It’s better to live with the reality and accept the fact that India,
Pakistan and Bangladesh are three different nations; have different
cultures, language, accents or dialects. Indian muslims have different
mindset and in their thinkings in comaprison to their counterparts in
Pakistan, Afghanistan and Bangladesh. I am sure none of pakis are
going to accept this openly but that will running away from the
reality.
AMIN GANI says:June 8th, 2009 10:18 am I am surprised,astonished and
wonder after hearing ,listening and came to know about speech of mr
jinnah in first session of our constitution assembly,nomination of a
hindu schedule cast as our first law minister who also chaired the
session.,also saw entire histery of pakistan,a thought comming to my
mind that why pakistan was demanded and why lacs of people and
unprecidental sacrifices given by muslims when we we were living since
centuries in secular subcontinent amicably with other people of
different faiths.I conclude that we muslims were cheated and leaders
exploited Islam and still expliting .
Indscribe says:June 7th, 2009 5:18 am A couplet of Jagannath Azad as
tribute:
Kya khabar kyaa baat uske kufr meN poshiida thii
Ek kaafir kyuuN haram vaaloN ko yaad aaya bohat
Neena:
I really don’t know because I live in India. Until a few years back I
often saw magazines like Tashkil, Aaj etc from Pakistan but no longer.
Even the literary columns of major Pakistani newspapers don’t publish
such columns.
In fact, I find a big disconnect between the cyber-savvy generation of
Pakistan and the rest. Forget literature, even popular writings aren’t
discussed much.
Like in India we hear so much about MA Rahat and Muhiuddin Nawab, but
I don’t find even wikipedia pages on them or any proper articles on
these writers.
Is it class difference–English speakers who occasionally love to hum a
nazm or recall a couplet, and the Urdu speakers who read the digests,
literary magazines and the papers.
The most encouraging thing about Pakistan is that it has such a huge
Urdu-knowing populace. In India, the percentage of those who are able
to read the Urdu script is declining.
Still, there are 25-30 major literary magazines published by
individuals, state governments’ academies and publishing houses. I am
sure there must be magazines dedicated solely to literature in
Pakistan. However, they are probably not net-friendly and someone
should help them in setting up websites for them.
AftaabAnsari says:June 7th, 2009 1:56 am So, Bukharisaab, a state for
muslims must always = an Islamic state? God forbid. I am a secular
person and believe in strict religion/state separation for our
Pakistan.
In 1947 the situation was different; violence and destruction
threatened to destroy “India”, as muslims and hindus indeed are two
radically different groups with two different cultures and traditions.
We should model ourselves on Turkey, Indonesia or even - somewhat
shamefully - BD. Secularism may not be a “negation” of your Zia-esque
“Ideals” of Pakistan, but I believe we should look to the future and
leave Sharia behind in the history where it belongs.
I am NOT enthused with your idea of a Salafist Pakistan.
Farhat Sheikh says:January 16th, 2010 8:27 pm Is it possible to post
audio of first anthem of Pakistan by Jagan Nath Azad on this site ?
nina bhatia. says:November 8th, 2009 9:55 am thanks. thanks and ever
thanks-shakespeare. iam happily shell-shocked as an Indian.
Farrukh says:September 27th, 2009 10:16 am Don’t know if you saw this
Prof. Najam. But Zeenews did a full news item based on this post by
you.
Am so glad that you and ATP keep raising these things that we must not
forget.
http://pakistaniat.com/2009/06/05/jagannath-azad/comment-page-1/
Do Morality and Spirituality come as a package ?
Shekhar Kapur - November 01, 2005
In an amoral universe (is it ?) where does morality stand, and whose
morality is it anyway ? Allow me to share a story..
Years ago, a struggling actor, and my first trip to LA. Went with a
friend to check out a cheap Motel he had an address for. His aunt and
uncle were arriving in LA.
Guess who owned the Motel ? You got it, Mr Patel and his wonderful
family.
A charming host, Mr Patel insited on us sharing in some great Gujarati
food. The whole family was there sitting on the floor, on beautifully
laid out mats in the family kithchen. The walls were surrounded by
paintings and idols of every Indian God you could think of, but
primarily of beautiful gold inlaid paintings of Krishna and the
Gopi's. There in a corner was a temple devoted to Krishna. The family
had obviously just finished an 'aarti' before dinner.
At the end of dinner we got down to bussiness, as my friend and Mr
Patel began the negotiating of room rates. Patel's gentleness totally
belied his negotiating skills. I wanted to see the rooms, to see if
some of the traditional decor had leaked into the rest of the Motel.
Mr Patel sent his 14 year old daughter to show me around.
It was an interesting room. Spacious. But a bit overdone.Nothing
Indian. Predominently browns, but still, something I could not put my
finger on.
Till I sat on the bed. As I almost toppled over I realized this was
Water Bed ! Looked around and realized there were too many mirrors in
the room. And then on the roof right above the bed was a large roof
mirror. This was a room designed for sex ! Quick as a flash I looked
at the 14 year old girl standing impassively on. And averted my eyes
quickly. She did not blink. She had been asked to show me the room and
that was what she was doing, impatient to get back to her dinner.
The mind reeled at the thought of my friend's old aunt and uncle
trying to sleep in a water bed, surfing for for Zee TV and finding
only naked copulating couples. I rushed back to warn my friend before
he handed in his credit card that he was booking them in a sex motel.
There,a beaming Mr Patel, asked me if everything was 'appropriate'.
I have had several imaginary conversations with Mr Patel since this
incident many years ago. To my many imaginary questions I hear just
one imaginary answer.
"My kitchen is who I and my family are, and the Motel is just my
bussiness. It's what I do to take care of my family. Which is my
Dharma".
Shekhar
ps - this is not a moral judgement of Mr Patel. Nor is it about the
morality of sex hotels. It is an observation of a contradiction.
Spirituality is about who we are
Morality is about what we do
What happens when the two are on conflict ? As they often are. When I
was filming Bandit Queen, I met many active dacoits that were avid
devotees of Kali, donating half their earnings to the temples to Kali.
and to the villages that looked after them. Yet, the bussiness of
Dacoity is that of Kidnapping, looting and even killing.
And this could be taken to much more macro extremes. How about "I hate
killing people, but as a President of a country I am forced to take
decisions to go to War."
Dont we all face this dichotomy in out lives to some degree ?
shekhar
Posted by Shekhar Kapur at November 1, 2005 08:52 PM
Comments
"In an amoral universe (is it ?) where does morality stand, and whose
morality is it anyway ?"
What this preamble of question(s) has to do with your story?
WW
1. Posted by White Wings on November 1, 2005 10:22 PM
Shekhar,
You totally lost me on this one. I simply don't get it!
Sorry, friend.
2. Posted by Cherrylane on November 1, 2005 10:24 PM
I get it. It is just business and is it a moral? I think we can all
rationalize anything, spiritual or not. The question lies in if the
soul can sleep at night? If yes at some point we must be connected to
the center of the universe and all connect but if not... I think we
must evaluate the path we walk.
Namaste,
3. Posted by rocky on November 1, 2005 10:41 PM
Shekhar,
I did my engineering from a college located in a remote village of
Maharashtra. There are a few families that make their living by
selling country liquor. Towards evening, people gather outside the
house of these families. Pots are emptied in measured doses. Almost
everyone in the family, including teenage daughters, serves the brew.
Villagers told me that these families are God fearing, traditional and
members of the family don't consume alchohol.
Similarly, in the now infamous ladies dance bars of Mumbai, if you go
during puja time in the evening, there will be loud chanting as in a
temple and the thick smoke of incense will almost choke you.
The contrast is amazing.
4. Posted by Suresh Nair on November 1, 2005 10:55 PM
i had just written a small article sometime back on the banning of
dance bars in mumbai. its a very similar situation wherein the society
sadly looks down upon these bar girls. the problem is with the people
running these bars and not the bar girls. its just a profession for
them as for anyone else.
5. Posted by ManiacMonk on November 1, 2005 11:20 PM
Shekhar, I did blog about the usage of the term morality sometime back
after discussions with my friend. In fact, it depends on how the term
morality is used. Whether it is used in the descriptive way or
normative way. If the usage is based on the descriptive way, it comes
as a package with religion (will use religion than spirituality though
both are sort of interlinked).
6. Posted by Krish on November 1, 2005 11:43 PM
Aloha Shekar
I would look at the memory like a dream where I am every part of the
dream. I am the idols, host, waterbeds, mirrors, each of the family
members, kitchen, daughter, past and future guests of the motel,
business to support family, credit card, aunt, uncle, friend and
Dharma. In untangling the hierarchy of the dream, the portal would be
the child. The child being the portal the awareness would be that we
are a very young species. My thoughts then towards the father would be
kinder, where he wouldn’t have to justify his behavior in my memory.
That would be my Dharma, Love patty
7. Posted by patricia on November 1, 2005 11:53 PM
Read about how a 10-year-old blind son of a gardener in Bhopal taught
a lesson in advertising ethics to the Voice of America and also about
My mother's 22 rooms. Click on the link: www.sanitysucks.blogspot.com
8. Posted by Rahul Pandita on November 2, 2005 12:53 AM
What Wonderful Humor Shekhar!!! It was a blast. Two sides of the same
coin? LOL!! My God! What wonderful family dharma and what wonderful
world Dharma! Nothing wrong as long as you are open and don't hide it.
This is where Hypocrisy comes in at its best, especially amongst the
Indians in such areas...and you are a master at bringing it out!!!
Thanks for the great humor you brought to this site....Sachin
9. Posted by Sachin on November 2, 2005 01:08 AM
suresh nair - thats exactly the point. What u do does not neccesarily
get defined by who you are. The real intention behind action seems be
your spiritual self. But what about the contract killer I met in
Mumbai that is an avid devotee of hanuman ? 50% of everything he earns
goes to the temple. There lies the contradiction between spirituality
and morality.
The contract killer believes that what he does is his karma. Shekhar
10. Posted by shekhar on November 2, 2005 01:33 AM
Shekhar - the converse is true as well. Who you are does not and
sometimes cannot define what you do. I think the more important issue
here is human agency (or lack thereof): if you have the freedom to
choose what you do, then the implicit assumption is that you have the
necessary ability to judge the consequences of your choices (actions).
I must confess I'm not entirely convinced of the juxtaposition of
spirituality and morality - does it follow that one should complement
the other? Each can exist mutually exclusive of the other. By this I
mean, in the name of spirituality, what one does cannot be judged by
the criteria of moralty and vice versa...example: Machiavelli's
Prince. If you do something for the right reason (using a set of moral
criteria) then it cannot be morally challenged on those grounds
because it was intended for the highest good, even if that good was
self-serving to oneself or harmful to another. Aristotle said
something interesting...every action in pursuit is said to aim at some
good. that is why the good has rightly been declared to be that at
which all things aim. Just thought I'd put those thoughts out there.
11. Posted by childish love of maps on November 2, 2005 02:27 AM
Why do we look at morality & spirituality as two separate entities? If
I understand right, 'spirituality' is not just about going to the
temple, prayers etc. It encompasses morality too.
12. Posted by Guruprasad on November 2, 2005 03:27 AM
Shekhar,
What does decorating a room with religious statues have to do with
being spiritual? We can decorate all we want however it is on the
inside where it exists. And what does having a room built for have to
do with immorality? Whose morals are we talking about?
Its up to the individual to follow their own ideas of morality, we
begin to suffer when morals are imposed on us that do not match our
own. What is & offensive to one may be quite acceptable to another.
I love the Hindi story of the holy man and the . When the Holy man
died he had a magnificant funeral with many morners, however never
made into heaven, because he was so judgemental of others behaviour &
he thought so highly of himself. When the prostitue died she died a
poppers , however was granted entrence to heaven because, she loved
the Holy man whom she admired for his dedication to rituals & purity.
Not to mention all the Love she gave to others through her profession.
Keep the peace!
Tom
13. Posted by Venturo on November 2, 2005 04:10 AM
I feel there is a contradiction everywhere when it comes to
morality..becoz spirutuality in Indian terms is defined as a set of
rituals ..as long as u uphold these endless acting of mindless rituals
everything is fine..most of the dacoits (they do exist !!!!!)in
northern india kill innocent people saying tht they do to appease
godess kali..
14. Posted by preethi on November 2, 2005 04:19 AM
´Shekhar,
You totally lost me on this one. I simply don't get it!´
Dear Cherry,
Girl! I´m still don´t know wheter or not you can bake me that
applepie..;)
Anyhow, on
spirituality and morality,
spirit is what you are,
morality is what your EGO DOES,
for as judgement and labeling,
belong to one´s ´conditioning´,
as in fixed responses to certain phenomenae,
Love, Passion, and an applepie..
15. Posted by marek dariusz podsiadlo on November 2, 2005 04:36 AM
Hi Shekhar,
Morality comes with spirituality, spirituality comes with our EFFORTS
AT morality.
Obviously, Mr Patel has yet to go through many layers of self-
deception to reach at his real self and real spirituality - and hence
real morality. To each one his own cross!
Harb.
16. Posted by Harb on November 2, 2005 04:58 AM
Hello Shekhar and Everyone,
Look at our President, a man who considers himself very moral and
spiritual, after all, he always proclaims that Jesus is his saviour,
yet look at the way he ran his political campaings, underhanded is
putting it mildly, the war in Iraq, misleading the American public,
telling them they were in imminent danger when they were not.
True morality and spirituality come from within, they are not
something that is imposed upon us, it is something we grow into as we
mature in mind, body, and spirit. We are moral because we have
discovered the morality in our own nature, we are spiritual because we
have discovered the the spirit within, but until we discover it
within.. we cover our bases, a prayer here, a little illicit sex
there, afterall, we must survive in the world before we can master it!
17. Posted by ruth on November 2, 2005 05:14 AM
´Morality comes with spirituality, spirituality comes with our EFFORTS
AT morality´
Let me help you out a bit, and a legal/philosophical input,
Spirituality transcends morality,
morality is totally subjective and relative or
in other words ´in the (Karmic) eyes of the beholder´
morality is judgement, condemnation,
the critium is the ´damage criterium´
Everything goes, unless you cause damage,
that may be material, physical and or psychological,
It is a withdrawel from a ´negative´ cause and effect,
while in spirituality, you just accept what is,
and utillize the Laws of (Good) Karma, Giving,
so that is a ´positive´ criterium, to ´add´ instead of ´not take´,
And that leads to Dharma, purpose and or your unique talents, with
effortless ease, and so on,
the rest of the Spiritual Laws,
With Love, Passion, Cherry do you have a blog, dear..? ;)
18. Posted by marek dariusz podsiadlo on November 2, 2005 05:30 AM
That Was Hilarious Shekhar!! You're terrific at bringing out the
Contradictions and hypocrisy!!
Sachin
19. Posted by Sachin Mukhedkar on November 2, 2005 07:12 AM
Eeeeeeeeeeks! what was that! Shekhar pls dont write just becos u have
nothing better to do. The heading seemed interesting and I thot u
would come up with some insights ( i dont really read you as you often
dont say anything new), but your post was not only badly written, but
also was meaningless. It didnt explore a damn thing. Neither morality,
nor spirituality. I am amazed how people read such stuff and take it
further as if it is some profound words of wisdom. And btw, why would
anyone show a room to have sex to two men! unless he was sure u guys
were gays! I think u just made it up. At least come up with a better
story! And if i may ask, what is bothering u, ur spirituality or ur
morality!
20. Posted by bachaao on November 2, 2005 07:15 AM
Dear Shekhar,
Morality is subjective. Are you saying that sex is not moral? If I
have sex in a hotel room with a mirror on the ceiling does that mean
that I am not spiritual? If I own a hotel and I know and/or even
encourage people to enjoy having sex while they are staying there,
does that mean that I am not spiritual?
I guess I don't understand what you are saying...
I was reading today about authenticity and how we are not authentic.
We talk about nonviolence - preach nonviolence but we are violent. The
example given was to observe how you look at your servant and also how
you look at your boss, how you look at the rich person and how you
look at the poor person. If there is any difference at all - then that
is violence. We aren't really seeing them. We are seeing our bank
account, etc. In your story, when we look at each of the characters...
is there a difference?
It's an interesting question don't you think?
I've been thinking a lot about acceptance and also about not
manipulating/not selling/not trying to force my agenda upon others.
I'm coming to the conclusion that when we try and force or sell or
manipulate anyone --- even for their own good (which is a lie, because
it's for our own self that we manipulate) that there is a violence to
it. Do you agree?
Love, Kristin
ps. Perhaps you are mainly speaking of "right livelyhood" and how the
way in which we make our living matters in the world?
21. Posted by Kristin Masterton on November 2, 2005 08:03 AM
Hi Shekhar,
Your post shows me that morality is a construct...it is completely
tied to your point of view.
You walked into a room and realized that the room was geared toward
couples interested in sex, and automatically, due to your background
thought that it was immoral.
On the other hand I might walk into that room and think how nice it
was that Mr. Patel made a nice living renting rooms that encouraged
people to make love and love each other.
Morality is a point of view in many cases. I would look at Mr. Patel's
business and think he was doing a service...people left there happier
and closer to their partners.
Peace,
Scott.
PS - Kristin...I remember that room with the mirrors :0)!
22. Posted by Scott Masterton on November 2, 2005 10:11 AM
Dear Shekhar,
Interesting post. In my opinion, spirituality and morality are
independent of each other. Spirituality is a contract with the God or
the supreme consciousness or whatever you like to call it. Morality is
a contract with humanity. So there is no direct relationship between
the two.
Ravi Kulkarni
23. Posted by Ravi Kulkarni on November 2, 2005 10:16 AM
Scott,
OMG, I can't believe that you said that on the internet! That was not
me. I'm much to pure for mirrors on ceilings. ;)
Love, Kristin
24. Posted by Kristin Masterton on November 2, 2005 10:16 AM
May my smile be mirrored to All.
~~ K
it is so delightful, to read and share, from the many facets of
Oneness.
:)
25. Posted by K on November 2, 2005 10:24 AM
Kristen,
How 'bout threesomes? Just wondering where the morality & draws the
line.
Jim
26. Posted by Jim on November 2, 2005 10:28 AM
Dear Shekhar,
I liked the post. Paradox!
Keep it up.
Love, Bo
27. Posted by Bo Wise on November 2, 2005 11:30 AM
Nope Jim...we don't do threesomes :0).
Scott.
28. Posted by Scott Masterton on November 2, 2005 11:31 AM
´I liked the post. Paradox´
the paradox is, that there is no paradox,
just social hypnoses..or indoctrination..or hypocrisy..or
conditioning..
There is a field beyond all notions of right and wrong.
Come, meet me there. -- Rumi
On pri mordial level..or QP..what is just..is..
Love, passion, and the Law of Detachement
29. Posted by marek dariusz podsiadlo on November 2, 2005 11:36 AM
Marek (great post).
All,
True morality is a biproduct of identification with Spirit. If our
internal reference point is Spirit then we naturally do the things
that are most nurturing for ourselves and those around us.
If on the other hand, we are just obeying some set of rules that
someone wrote down because we are afraid we will be punished or
castigated by our society it is not true morality, because we have
done these things out of fear.
I know this is a little off the original subject, but it seemed
relevent to me.
Peace,
Scott.
30. Posted by Scott Masterton on November 2, 2005 11:50 AM
Scott,
true, though don´t forget the mind-brain-body
connection,
look at nature, cruel as hell!
(just like the human, don´t you agree?
see your nearest hospital or court for reference)
The point is on brainchemistry level, for as
every thought is a neuro peptide/hormonal cause and effect set in
motion, cortisol, adrenaline and so on,
To judge, or point of focus, meaning attached to events is therefore a
very ...response-ability
Love, Passion
31. Posted by marek dariusz podsiadlo on November 2, 2005 12:10 PM
What the hotel owner does as a business to earn his living does not
define him or his family. Simple as that. 'Morality' just complicates
things. The contract killer or the prostitute in the dance bar serves
a purpose in society, as much as anyone else. A person's job does not
define who he/she is.
In the movie 'Satya', the killer/gangster is just another guy with a
dream of making it big who comes to Mumbai looking for a job. Its just
that the Mumbai he comes across does not encourage his ambitions too
well.
32. Posted by Arjun on November 2, 2005 12:17 PM
Hello All,
IMO, this is completely and utterly mindless nonsense. I am sorry for
being so crude, but this's what I think.
Hope you all have a better day!
Debby.
33. Posted by Debby on November 2, 2005 01:07 PM
This is a quote from Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance
(haven't read it for like 17yrs. may not be exact)--Quote is "What is
right and what is wrong--need we ask anyone to tell us these things?"
I think the answers to these questions lie inside of us--as we become
more spiritual we become more "moral". When you find spirit, you find
right and wrong.
To answer the question, was that your friend's Dharma--I don't know
the answer to that. But it sounds like you have a strong feeling that
it was and you can probably trust that feeling.
34. Posted by dulcie on November 2, 2005 03:10 PM
Morality is not complex in fact one measure covers everything.
**Help create a good experience for everyone, don't create bad ones**
Anything else is judgement.
Looks like this hotel owner was very moral trying to create a good
experience for those that stayed there.
35. Posted by Richard Thomas on November 2, 2005 06:03 PM
Marek
Your thought processes are so lofty and up there in the clouds.
Whatever you are doing or taking to keep them there[applepie/polish
fannie,coffee-shop leaf] keep doing the same,do not go any higher or
us poor earthlings will lose you.
Wishing you leaf baked apple pie .
Peace.
Sid Harth.
36. Posted by sid harth on November 2, 2005 07:17 PM
There is definitely a duplicity on the life of the owner of the
motel.
Morality defines what is good and what is bad. Most of us do not like
these two terms and claim that the universe is amoral. HOw does one
define good or bad? What brings human beings comfort is good and what
not, is bad. As we can see, it is relative - as what brings comfort
today may not bring comfort tomorrow - and largely depends on the
system of production. The specifics of the morality may have to be
revised from time to time. This will happen naturally without any
particular intervention by any authority. HOwever, the essence, - what
is good brings comfort - will not change.
If creating good experience for everyone - without any reference to
outsiders - is what morality is all about, then should not we be
creating good atmosphere for Osama to operate as he wishes so that he
can be happy or for thieves to act as they like?? IS this not
thoeretical obfuscating?
What one does clearly defines what he is. Encouraging people to have
sex is not immoral. But here the intention was not just that, it was
to make as much money from people who was looking for a comfortable
place to have sex. The objective was not to encourage people to have
sex but to compete with the peers and make as much as possible.
Is satisfying a customer bad?
Then the next question will be: Can we imagine Gandhiji running that
motel? The main features of a motel maintained by a saint will not be
like what Shekhar seen. And that will reflect the personality of the
owner.
Sprituality and social life can't be contradictory to each other,
or independent of one another. Essentialy, the two are just two
features of the same organism. It should go together, can't be
mutually exclusive. For example, one need to be honest if he/she is on
the path. One can't be a crook and spiritually advanced at the same
time. Being honest is definitely a part of morality. The reference
point for spirituality and morality should be internal. It is not just
because we are afraid of police, we do not steal. Even if we are sure
that police will not catch us, we will still not steal. One should not
reduce morality to just a set of rules for controlling human beings in
the society.
37. Posted by Najeeb on November 2, 2005 09:08 PM
Marek
Your thought processes are so lofty and up there in the clouds.
Whatever you are doing or taking to keep them there[applepie/polish
fannie,coffee-shop leaf] keep doing the same, do not go any higher or
us poor earthlings will lose you.
haha,
wohaha,
No worries, mate!
I do believe it was Sid Harta himself, who was
with one leg leg in higher realms and with the other firmly on the
ground..,;)
Love, Passion and some good spiritual vibrations
38. Posted by marek dariusz podsiadlo on November 3, 2005 05:27 AM
Dear Shekhar Kapur HAPPY DIWALI TO YOU AND TO YOUR FAMILY TOO GOD MAY
BLESS AND GIVE EVERYTHING YOU AND YOUR FAMILY WISHED FOR IN THE NEW
YEARS TOOOOOO
I wish that we have a lot to do and share for the world betterment
rather than raising any controvercy's on the moralities or morality
Iwish you again and may say its to individual to individual differ and
every-one have their version of a side of their explaination.
But I will say be human and never judge anyone and be fair and live in
peace to make others to feel they do will correct themselves if the
question in discussion were to be talked say in your humane .
And I know it wont work but it works well atleast it wont show but
very defenitely improves in others attitudes.
GOD BLESS YOU AND ALL IN THIS DIWALI AND THE COMING NEW YEAR
I SINCERELY
PHILIP JOSEPHS SWAMY
I really have some seriuos issues to talk to you dear Shekhar Kapur
and to partner you for better future to see and to make and to do that
difference in this fast changing world in which many are just inhuman
and i really cant blame them but its a disturbing factor and it has
got a serious side dear Shekhar Kapur
will you try to contact me or write to me i DESPERATELY AWAITED FOR
YOU
PHILIP JOSEPHS SWAMY
39. Posted by PHILIP JOSEPHS SWAMY on November 3, 2005 05:33 AM
I did not have time to read the responces after reading this article.
But, can you say the same a drug dealer, or even a mercinary. The
family you are mentioning are not hurting anyone.
What do you think?
Adam
40. Posted by Adam on November 3, 2005 07:58 AM
bachaao
"your post was not only badly written, but also was meaningless. It
didnt explore a damn..."
Shakhar is a man of wisdom. He says profound things. If someone does
not understand him, he is not to be criticized. See how Tyan, Marek
and many others here love to read what the bloggers and the readers
say and get enlightened by their spiritual and intellectual thoughts.
Be patient. Give the man some credit.
Who is moral?
Who is spiritual?
One can be both, one or none at all.
If we do good karma and dharma
we will merge with Him...
Love
Tanzan
41. Posted by Tanzan Senzaki on November 3, 2005 09:26 AM
OH MY GOD!!!
Spiritual or Moral? :)
42. Posted by I on November 3, 2005 10:11 AM
Quotes a funny - like religions. Everyone just wants take what they
are comfortable with.
If I had a 14 year old at home to feed I'd be working at Wal-mat
instead of sitting here typing this.
I try - usually don't achieve - to make my whole life 'who I am'. For
best or worse.
43. Posted by pam on November 3, 2005 03:05 PM
Somebody is observing you and your dharma too, Shekhar..:)
I remember when your movie MASOOM was released and I would leave no
opportunity to recommend this film to any and everyone whom I met, and
then, one day someone told me that MASOOM was a plagiarized version of
some hollywood movie. And immediately this question started kicking me
why a sensitive, intelligent, philosophical, imaginative guy has to
succumb to this?
Being a Shekhar fan, for many days I supplied lot many imaginary
answers to myself..lol
44. Posted by Kails on November 3, 2005 03:58 PM
From immorality outside (in our actions) we evolve to immorality
inside (in the form of our thoughts). It is only when we evolve beyond
immorality from even our insides, from even our thoughts that we reach
spirituality. The last stage is, however, the stage of the Way. Here
you will go beyond even so-called spirituality and see the divided
world again. Then you will act spontaneously. If any of your actions
is considered immoral by any accepted standards of society then it is
time those standards are changed according to the new paradigm.
Many here may have heard about the three stages of Zen: Before
studying Zen rivers are rivers mountains mountains. While you are
studying Zen, rivers are no longer rivers mountains are no longer
mountains. After you have studied Zen rivers are once again rivers
mountains are once again mountains.
Spirituality is the second stage. Masters and sages belong to the
third stage. In the first stage you act on things as a slave. If you
drink you drink as a slave. If you indulde in sex you indulge in it as
a slave. In the second stage (of spirituality) you do not see or do
these things. But in the third stage you may do any of these things
according to your disposition but you will be doing these not as a
slave but as a master. Only masters can really celebrate life.
Harb.
45. Posted by Harb on November 4, 2005 12:33 AM
Fine,
after readin the name of shekhar Kapoor and title related to 'morality
and sprituality' im must read it.but..fu... this is d way of a great
director to narrrate such imp.(not 4 me atleast) subjects.neway.m New
here.n liked it dat Shekhar narrate his experience just like i did 6
years back in my note book, when i was 17.
Very innocent u are Shekhar.
46. Posted by Hem on November 4, 2005 01:41 AM
THIS ARTICLE OF URS REMINDS ME OF A MOVIE - THE LAST SUPPER- a black
comedy, its a movie about 5 friends - all LIBERALS who IRONICALLY
poison politicians and priests and others such who have a point of
view, which is different from ders. Till de invite a ultra
conservative politician who dey are planning to poison over dinner
turns out to be someone totally diffeerent from what he is on de
screen. As a conservative politician - which is his profession he
agrees with the church and hence looks down upon gays and so on and so
forth. However in real life it turns out that he is very liberal by
nature.
"My kitchen is who I and my family are, and the Motel is just my
bussiness. It's what I do to take care of my family. Which is my
Dharma". THIS IS EXACTLY THE STAND HE TAKES sayin dat being a
conservative politician is not something he likes being but he has to
do it for it pays him to do so and dat too well so dat he can take
care of his family for that is his greatest responsibilty and job!
Now, Morality, in the strictest sense of the word, deals with that
which is innately regarded as right or wrong. The term is often used
to refer to a system of principles and judgments shared by cultural,
religious, and philosophical concepts and beliefs, by which humans
subjectively determine whether given actions are right or wrong.
I believe dat this universe is amoral in de sense dat what we do ie
our actions are often not guided by what is right and what is wrong
but what we want and need and desire for in life.
And hence morality is subject to an individual and his wants and it is
his/her morality.
however,this would change only if the word 'I' doesnt pertain to a
single person but to the people... it should be I - THE PEOPLE and
then as the poem goes "The mob--the crowd--the mass--will arrive
then."
47. Posted by charanya on November 4, 2005 04:36 AM
Shekhar,
Your blogs have more deeper meanings than they look at the surface,
and it appears many readers miss it and find something or the other to
ridicule. Shame on them!
I think you can make a movie on this theme. One does not need a single
story for the entire movie, one can instead use 4 or 5 related
segments -slices of life- on morality and spirituality. You have two
segments already, one in the main section of your blog and the other
in your comment. I can send you other segments if you feel like
developing this idea into a movie. Each segment may run anywhere from
20 to 30 minutes. The movie goers can draw their own conclusions at
the end of the movie. You do create imagery in your writings and I
feel I already see the shots on Mr Patel, his family and his business.
Regards,
Tanzan Senzaki
48. Posted by Tanzen Senzaki on November 4, 2005 12:27 PM
kallis - yes there was a film on the same theme as Masoom in hollywood
called Man, Woman and Child, which was released 6 months after Masoon
came out. Not before. Shekhare
49. Posted by shekhar on November 4, 2005 01:04 PM
Much ado about nothing! This is the conclusion that I've come to after
reading Shekhar's original post and the replies so far.
Shekhar seems to think that running a motel designed for sex (as he
puts it) or lovemaking (as some others would like to put it)is immoral
and that's why he wanted to stop his friend from booking a room there.
He was mistaken.
He was mistaken earlier too when he formed a good opinion about the
motel owner just on the basis of the religious pictures and symbols
present in his home.
Then he says, "My kitchen is who I and my family are, and the Motel is
just my bussiness. It's what I do to take care of my family. Which is
my Dharma". The point Shekhar wants to drive home is that it's all
right to have an "immoral" business just because one has to earn a
livelihood! Firstly, I don't believe that the Motel Owner's business
was "immoral" and secondly I don't believe that it is Ok to have an
"immoral" business if you are "moral" in your kitchen. How can you
bifurcate your life into two parts? One for your business and one for
your kitchen!
I would have expected a famous and respected movie maker like Shekhar
to come up with a better thought of piece than this. Instead, he just
posted many contradictory and incoherent thoughts in his piece. Maybe
Bachaao is right when he/she says that Shekhar just made up this story
and it never really happened.
Out of all the posts here, I find the posts by Guruprasad and Dulcie
the most intelligent ones. Shekhar, you must read those two posts
again.
And then a debate has started about spirituality and morality. If you
are "trying" to be moral, then you are certainly NOT spiritual. Coz
morality is nothing but a set of Dos and Don'ts given to you by the
religious preachers. If you are truly spiritual, your actions would
automatically be moral. A truly spiritual (enlightened) person
automatically realises the difference between right and wrong and
hence, does not need to be told what to do.
Cheers!
Navin
50. Posted by Navin on November 4, 2005 01:15 PM
That is hilarious! I worked at an online hospitality careers company
and in my search for owners of Motels, every single one was Mr. Patel
and I was puzzled. What is up with that?
51. Posted by Rita Raju on November 4, 2005 01:22 PM
yea and they were different Mr. Patel's, not the same one...
52. Posted by Rita Raju on November 4, 2005 01:22 PM
LOL at Tanzan's comments. It is obvious that he is using flattery to
get some work from Shekhar.
I quote him "Your blogs have more deeper meanings than they look at
the surface, and it appears many readers miss it and find something or
the other to ridicule. Shame on them!" Tanzan, my dear, you are
shaming the people who have ridiculed Shekhar's piece. Why shouldn't
you be shamed for ridiculing them? LOL.
You are starting a chain of negativity which will only boomerang on
you......try and meditate a little to get in touch with the real you
first. It will help you in drafting the movie segments which you want
to write for Shekhar.
Cheers!
53. Posted by Navin on November 4, 2005 01:32 PM
Hi Shekhar,
I wanted to know how does one get into the list of Contributors? Do
they get some special invitation or something?
Enjoy your weekend
Navin
54. Posted by Navin on November 4, 2005 07:23 PM
sorry to step into the fray,
the blog was more a question
no moral judgement of Mr Patel.
the question :
how possible is it to seperate yourself from what you do ?
For who u are is a spiritual question
And what you do lies in the ambit of morality
shekhar
55. Posted by shekhar on November 5, 2005 04:25 AM
Thanks for clarifying your stand, Shekhar. In my opinion, it's not
possible to seperate yourself from what you do. If you are doing
something with full concentration the act becomes a meditation. In
that moment you become one with the act. You transcend yourself.
If a dancer is dancing with full concentration and enjoying the dance,
the dancer himself/herself becomes the dance. If a singer is truly
singing from the heart, he/she becomes the song in that moment. You
get identified with what you do. Becoz what you do is a part of who
you are.
A contract killer cannot claim that contract killing is his profession
and he is a spiritual person otherwise. That would be a lie. A
spiritual person just cannot be a contract killer. If you have become
enlightened, it would be impossible for you to do something to hurt
others.
I think one should not "try" to be "moral". Forget everything about
being moral. You will be missing the point if you get stuck with
morality. Just be spiritual.......forget everything about morality.
You take care of the Pounds and the Pennies will take care of
themselves. Laying emphasis on morality would be like trying to cure
the symptoms. Cure the disease, not the symptoms. If the disease is
cured, the symptoms will vanish by themselves.
Cheers!
56. Posted by Navin on November 5, 2005 07:09 AM
Hi Shekhar, and Navin,
It is possible to separate yourself, the beliefs one professes to
believe in - and the actions one ends up performing. Just look around
you, see the world scene, see in your own country, politics, see in
your own communities, where issues are discussed. Notice business
practices, hear and read the stories. Notice in your own self, where
the contradictions of beliefs and actions sometimes collide.
So - it is possible to say one thing and do another. It is possible to
be quoting scripture, and profess to practice the Golden Rule, and not
show this in your behavior.
That said! :) I do believe one can rise above the opposites. As you
say, Navin - in moments where we 'merge' completely with an activity,
like dancing, or meditating, or singing, we transcend our duality -
and in that moment, if only briefly - we are Whole.
So, I would think the most compelling question is - what is the tool/
technique/practice - that best helps one to rise above the opposites,
and live Life. To see with clear awareness.
The 'real' secret is to understand, and know - there is no cause
outside yourself. Religions and moral codes attempt to point the way
to how we should behave. BUT - ...
to be continued ...
:)
Blessings,
~~ K
p.s. Shekhar, how have you/are you - able to resolve the 'challenge'
of spiritually/morality within your own understanding and actions?
Love
57. Posted by K on November 5, 2005 10:07 AM
Dear K,
You missed Shekhar's question. He had asked, "how possible is it to
seperate yourself from what you do?"
And I quote you,"it is possible to say one thing and do another. It is
possible to be quoting scripture, and profess to practice the Golden
Rule, and not show this in your behavior."
Ofcourse it is possible to say one thing and do another! LOL. 95%
population of the world does exactly that. But is it possible to
separate yourself from your actions? Is it possible to say that you
are a spiritual person if you earn your livelihood from conning
people? That is the question Shekhar had asked.....and the answer to
that is a big NO.
If you say one thing and do another, then can you avoid being called a
cheat? You can't. You cannot separate yourself from your actions and
say that "I am a conman by profession, but I am spiritual at home".
LOL. That would be ridiculous.
And then you ask, "So, I would think the most compelling question is -
what is the tool/technique/practice - that best helps one to rise
above the opposites, and live Life. To see with clear awareness."
There is no "tool/technique/practice" which will make you a Buddha.
You are either AWARE or you are not. There is no gradual process which
takes place. Awareness comes in an INSTANT when it has to happen. I
hope you experience it in this lifetime.
Cheers!
58. Posted by Navin on November 5, 2005 10:42 AM
Dear Navin,
It is a great joy to be at Intentblog, and to share and dialogue! I
grow in understanding and awareness, by this process!
Thank you for being part of this, and to all who bring their
knowledge, experience, insights. It becomes a kind of alchemy!
I stay open to the possibility of Instant Enlightenment. I have had
moments, when I have 'merged' and felt no separation, in activities
you mention in your post. And in moments in Nature, and when I have
closed my eyes, and still stayed Awake :) Yet, felt complete and
peaceful in the moment.
I am finding, that to transcend, and get to the Buddha state, one must
get past thinking. Deepak has written several articles here, about the
levels of consciousness, that we as humans experience, to help us
grow, and then transcend, our beliefs, and limitations. Until, as you
say Instant Awarness happens. If it's not fleeting, it's the Real
Deal :)
One challenge of communication, is semantics. Words can only point the
way. I think that is why I like stories and parables. They can
illustrate great truths, not easily shown in just words. (see, it's
even challenging for me to find the words to make 'sense' :) :)
I walk this journey, to Wholeness. No separation.
Thank you for sharing.
Blessings,
~~ K
59. Posted by K on November 5, 2005 11:17 AM
the question :
how possible is it to seperate yourself from what you do
Everybody's talkin' something very shockin' just to keep on blockin'
what they're feelin' inside
to be a human being and not a human doing
that is the (quest)ion
Love, Passion,
60. Posted by marek dariusz podsiadlo on November 5, 2005 11:39 AM
Every good fortune,
Wives, friends, houses, lands,
All these gifts and riches ...
They are a dream,
A juggling act,
A traveling show!
A few days, and they are gone.
-Ashtavakra Gita 10:2
Spirituality is about who we are
Morality is about what we do
And thus morality like all of the above possesions is a juggling
act...a dream. Spirituality lives on.
Thanks Shekhar, that was a good discussion.
On more such thoughts visit:
http://tathastu.rediffblogs.com
61. Posted by iaeizel on November 5, 2005 11:31 PM
´Dont we all face this dichotomy in out lives to some degree ?´
To become aware is to transcend,
India´s spiritual teachings, pick a(ny) teacher,
Law of Karma,
Path to love,
Deepak Chopra
To experience: enjoy, learn from or to transcend that is the quest-
ion,
and,
Three Core Concepts of Holistic Living from CwG:
Awareness
Honesty
Responsibility
Neale Donald Walsch
Love, Passion and good spiritual vibes,
62. Posted by marek dariusz podsiadlo on November 6, 2005 07:29 AM
Shekhar,
You ask, "how possible is it to seperate yourself from what you do?"
I think that's a great question, because who you are is not what you
do - and until we are firmly established in the experience of our true
nature beyond name and form we are necessarily tied to our actions and
the illusion of separation in this world.
In general, meditation is how we separate who we are from what we do.
Specifically though for each of us... I think we have to find our own
way.
Obviously, the paradox is that once we realize who we are is not what
we do our actions are spontaneously "right" in each moment. They
become the most evolutionary (and although the interpretation will
always be subjective - probably the most "moral" too.)
Love, Kristin
63. Posted by Kristin Masterton on November 6, 2005 11:17 AM
Philosophy is speculation. Zen is participation.
Don't just speculate. Participate.
64. Posted by Navin on November 6, 2005 11:23 AM
"For who u are is a spiritual question
And what you do lies in the ambit of morality"
its quite possible for a person to exist as 2 different entities - one
for ur own inner self and de other for de world wer u earn ur living.
dharma is wat u do becasue it is ur responsibility and it is dis which
falls under de question of morality .
karma is wat comes back to u - good or bad from ur doings in this
world and it is this karma which is a part of spirituality.
65. Posted by charanya on November 6, 2005 11:25 AM
After hearing the concerns of the Kalamas, the Buddha
replied:
"Come Kalamas. Don't go by reports, by legends, by
traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by
inference, by analogies, by consistency with your own
views, by probability, or by the thought. 'This
contemplative is our teacher.' When you know for
yourselves that 'these mental qualities are
unskillful; these mental qualities are blamesworthy;
these mental qualities are criticized by the wise;
these mental qualities when acted on lead to harm &
suffering' then abandon them. When you know for
yourselves that'these mental qualities are skillful;
these mental qualities are blameless; these mental
qualities are praised by the wise; these mental
qualities when acted on lead to well-being and
happiness' then keep following
them."---------------Kalama Sutta
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Happiness is to make progress on the road to the
Ultimate Wisdom!
BUDDHA, "Stupidity is the mother of all suffering!!"
Welcome to the Stupidity Camp!!!
66. Posted by HyHyHY! on November 6, 2005 03:25 PM
Not sure if Buddha was non compassionate enough to use such a
judgemental word as stupidity. But agree that happiness is to make
progress on the road to ultimate Wisdom.
And the progress on that road is possible only if you are unafraid to
look into the never ending world of questions that are unanswered. To
not look for simplicity of Dogma or of written statements or books or
other people's Wisdom. Even Buddha's.
shekhar
67. Posted by shekhar on November 7, 2005 12:56 AM
Yes, I agree, Shekhar. Each human has to find his/her own path. Coz
there are as many paths to reach THE ONE as there are people on the
planet.
One can't reach there with second hand knowledge or experience....one
has to experience oneself. The other can, at the maximum, point at a
path..... but one has to choose and walk the way oneself.
I had asked you a simple question earlier, Shekhar. Maybe you missed
that post. I repeat....I wanted to know how does one get into the list
of Contributors? Do they get some special invitation or something? If
you say that only friends & family of the Chopras and Kapurs can be
Contributors, I'd completely understand. After all, you guys are
paying for this webspace. :)
Is there a provision for us commoners to start a New Topic on
Intentblog?
Cheers!
Navin
68. Posted by Navin on November 7, 2005 04:58 AM
We must be unafraid to look within. We must fully experience all
aspects of our being. I'm not saying we have to act out. But we cannot
repress, because eventually that forces us to act out. We have to face
and accept whatever it is that we most fear in ourselves. Once done,
then we can know - through our own experience - and then we can keep
it or let it go. Then we can choose. Before that, the point of choice
continually eludes us. (And, that could easily be a definition of
hell.)
Living life based upon someone elses experience, rules, morality or
wisdom is not really living. It's borrowing. It's hiding out.
Who am I really? Not who should I be or who do I want to be - who am I
right now?
Love, Kristin
69. Posted by Kristin Masterton on November 7, 2005 07:37 AM
Here is the problem of the human psyche. To distiguish Self, from
self. The immortal Spirit, from ego's ever-chameleon, personality.
WE derive our existance via personality(ego). WE adapt and correct,
build and perceive ourselves via "self-imaging."
To distinguish the difference between our Spirit-Self; the higher
altitude of self-exploration must be explored of it's many segments
and layers, to find One's True Self; that immortal nucleous of
Spirit(Universe)that we each house within; and call: My Self.
What we show in action; is not necessarily a true projection of Self.
North
70. Posted by North on November 9, 2005 07:17 AM
testtesttesttesttest
71. Posted by test on November 9, 2005 09:58 PM
MORALITY IS THE GREATEST ROADBLOCK TO SPIRITUAL PROGRESS!!
This is my conviction! SPiritual progress hinges on a FREE MIND which
revels in exploration. Morality or any code - creates a "ready-made"
framework... which means that the mind is already bound. The "means"
and the "end" are already set in stone. "DOnt drink and you go a step
further to heaven"... or something like that.
A free mind is free from the past.. and can observe "What is" rather
than contemplating on "What should be"... which essentially creates
the observer-observed dichotomy!
Morality is merely about the world as we know it.. which "Relative".
SPirituality is about the Absolute!
By merely re-arranging the relative coordinate .. you cannot get to
the absolute!
That is PRECISELY WHY - ALL the three Gunas.. Tamasic, Rajasik as WELL
AS SATTVIK are said to be part of the "Trigunmayi Maya"!
Good and Evil and the Neutral are all relative.
I have dealt with this subject more in my series on Spiritual thoughts
at http://www.drishtikone.com/?q=node/217
Cheers,
- Desh
www.Drishtikone.com
72. Posted by desh on November 10, 2005 01:19 PM
To each his own..that is the views..but the views are of the
mind..isnt it? the mind ceases at a certain stage..then neither
spirituality nor morality exist! its all a thought...and discussion on
something that is transient is baseless...at the end!.....
Mr. Shekhar Kapoor - I am from Delhi and cannot believe i could be
actually writing a comment to your blog ...i am also not sure if you
will read it...but its a strange thing! My instincts admire you.....i
dont know anything about you except that i hv seen Masoom, perhaps
read something about you..perhaps nothing....i am not your fan, infact
you are nobody i know....still my instincts admire you. I am sharing
this only because i feel its always good to share positive
vibrations...in fact i hv already realized...it is HE in you or
anybody who is being admired..so salutation to that HE who came in
your form
73. Posted by Radhika on November 13, 2005 11:08 PM
It's easier than you thought. Both these items are available to the
lowest bidder. I bid my dirty overgrown left toenail once a year for
my daily dose of spirituality and morality. It's overwhleming.
74. Posted by Just checking out the site on November 18, 2005 10:18
AM
Post a comment
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