Diabetes Breakthrough?
Al
Jeff
"Al" <a...@nospam.net> wrote in message news:eluns...@enews3.newsguy.com...
> http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=a042812e-492c-4f07-8245-8a598ab5d1bf&k=63970
Quite interesting, really.
Hopefully, it will lead to human treatments within the next several years.
Jeff
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=a042812e-492c-4f07-8245-8a598ab5d1bf&k=63970
Depends on the diabetic mouse model they used.
The lead author, Dr. Hans Michael Dosch, is an immunologist and not an
endocrinologist:
Would suggest waiting until after reading the Cell article before
possibly having more interest.
May GOD continue to heal our hearts with HIS living water, curing our
diabetes, depression, anxiety or panic so that we can love our
neighbors a little more and LORD Jesus Christ a lot more, dear neighbor
Al whom I love unconditionally.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung
Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit
As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies
(Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Love
coon...@amestwp.com
endocrinologist:
Would suggest waiting until after reading the Cell article before
possibly having more interest."
Actually:
" "I couldn't believe it," said Dr. Michael Salter, a pain expert at"
The question is related to neurologist, pain, and immunologist,
destruction of beta cells; so your
remark is irrelevant. When you get over to the medical library, it
might
take awhile, if you request it I can read it online for you.
Whatever the rodent model this is a reaction never before seen and
demands further looks to see if some new process is at play.
Why do we smell sour grapes in your reaction?
Art Deco
>Depends on the diabetic mouse model they used.
Why should anyone believe anything you claim, Chunk? Your credibility
is in the tank, right next to your "holy fire".
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > Al wrote:
> >> http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=a042812e-492c-4f07-8245-8a598ab5d1bf&k=63970
> >
> > Depends on the diabetic mouse model they used.
>
> diabetes-prone NOD mice (see below).
This is a transgenic mouse model for type-1 diabetes where nearly 100%
of the animals carrying the trait develop **both** insulin resistance
and beta islet cell insufficiency from the outset as pups.
This is not a good mouse model for human type-1 diabetes, which is
neither inherited nor associated with insulin resistance.
This is also not a good mouse model for human type-2 diabetes, which
neither exhibits near-complete penetrance, nor early childhood onset,
nor early beta islet cell insufficiency.
> Here is the summary from the Cell web site:
>
> In type 1 diabetes, T cell-mediated death of pancreatic ? cells produces
> insulin deficiency. However, what attracts or restricts broadly autoreactive
> lymphocyte pools to the pancreas remains unclear. We report that TRPV1+
> pancreatic sensory neurons control islet inflammation and insulin
> resistance. Eliminating these neurons in diabetes-prone NOD mice prevents
> insulitis and diabetes, despite systemic persistence of pathogenic T cell
> pools. Insulin resistance and ? cell stress of prediabetic NOD mice are
> prevented when TRPV1+ neurons are eliminated. TRPV1NOD, localized to the
> Idd4.1 diabetes-risk locus, is a hypofunctional mutant, mediating depressed
> neurogenic inflammation. Delivering the neuropeptide substance P by
> intra-arterial injection into the NOD pancreas reverses abnormal insulin
> resistance, insulitis, and diabetes for weeks. Concordantly, insulin
> sensitivity is enhanced in trpv1?/? mice, whereas
> insulitis/diabetes-resistant NODxB6Idd4-congenic mice, carrying wild-type
> TRPV1, show restored TRPV1 function and insulin sensitivity. Our data
> uncover a fundamental role for insulin-responsive TRPV1+ sensory neurons in
> ? cell function and diabetes pathoetiology.
>
> > The lead author, Dr. Hans Michael Dosch, is an immunologist and not an
> > endocrinologist:
>
> That makes perfect sense, because type I diabetes is an autoimmune disease.
> And the first words in the abstract are: "In type 1 diabetes."
It also explains why the wrong mouse diabetes model was chosen.
> > http://tinyurl.com/wppvj
> >
> > Would suggest waiting until after reading the Cell article before
> > possibly having more interest.
>
> I am not sure who is suggesting this (there is no subject in the sentence).
>
> However, it is an excellent idea. I needed a little light reading for this
> afternoon's train ride.
>
> http://download.cell.com/pdfs/0092-8674/PIIS0092867406014656.pdf
>
> To me, it seems to be very well done research. It definitely does suggest
> that the nervous system plays a role in diabetes, both T1 and T2. They also
> identified a gene and the receptor it codes for.
>
> It is very promising, both in that they may have already identified a
> treatment or even a cure, as well as the basic science that may lead to
> other treatments.
For NOD mice perhaps but this work will not likely be generalizable to
humans because this mouse diabetes model has neither the inheritance
pattern nor the phenotypic presentation of either type-1 or type-2
human diabetes.
Would wait for attempts to replicate this work in mouse diabetes models
that have inheritance and phenotypic presentation patterns more similar
to that of humans.
An example of such a model would be the fructose-fed mouse on a western
diet (WD):
May GOD continue to heal our hearts with HIS living water curing our
diabetes, depression, anxiety, or panic so that we can love our
neighbors a little more and LORD Jesus Christ a lot more, dear neighbor
Jeff whom I love unconditionally.
Al
>>>> http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=a042812e-492c-4f07-8245-8a598ab5d1bf&k=63970
>>> Depends on the diabetic mouse model they used.
>> diabetes-prone NOD mice (see below).
>
> This is a transgenic mouse model for type-1 diabetes where nearly 100%
> of the animals carrying the trait develop **both** insulin resistance
> and beta islet cell insufficiency from the outset as pups.
>
> This is not a good mouse model for human type-1 diabetes, which is
> neither inherited nor associated with insulin resistance.
>
Fuck off Chunky. Go drink some f your "living water" ... or better yet
... Kool Aid.
GeF
call your gripe against Dr. Chung .. "jealousy"
Art Deco
and wrote:
>Convicted neighbor Jeff wrote:
>
>http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts
Once again you have failed to lits me, you quack. Get cracking, kook.
>> Andrew, in the "holy sprit", stroked his own ego and wrote:
>> > Al wrote:
Al
>
>
> call your gripe against Dr. Chung .. "jealousy"
Sure, asshole, call it whatever you wish!
GeF
how about "prejudiced".. do you think that might fit better than you being
"jealous" ;) !?
Barbara's Cat
> double-doctor Andy B. Chunk in the "holy sprit", stroked his own ego
> and wrote:
>
> > http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts
>
> Once again you have failed to lits me, you quack. Get cracking, kook.
WTF! Why is my moniker listed on that retard's Page-O-Hate?
I've been nothing but helpful to the Homo erectus retrograde:
I've given him friendly spelling advice; I've suggested many
diversions to help him reduce the pressure level in the veins
of his temples to assist causing the voices to go away; and
I've even slipped him a few hot lines for picking up ladies
at church. Jesus Fucking Christ! I give and give, and what
do I get in return? Listed as convicted! Fuck you, Andrew!
--
Cm~
You can lead a retard to knowledge
but you can't make them think.
Art Deco
He also has the gall to claim that his lits o'haet is really a "prayer"
lits.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > Convicted neighbor Jeff wrote:
> >
> > http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts
>
Neither.
> I see that I am in the company thinking people on the list.
That would not be the shared distinguishing trait of those on the
prayer list.
> >> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> >> > Al wrote:
> >> >> http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=a042812e-492c-4f07-8245-8a598ab5d1bf&k=63970
> >> >
> >> > Depends on the diabetic mouse model they used.
> >>
> >> diabetes-prone NOD mice (see below).
> >
> > This is a transgenic mouse model for type-1 diabetes where nearly 100%
> > of the animals carrying the trait develop **both** insulin resistance
> > and beta islet cell insufficiency from the outset as pups.
>
> It is also an autoimmune model of type I diabetes. That is why they used it.
It remains a model of strongly genetic type-1 diabetes rather than a
model of acquired type-1 diabetes.
Human type-1 diabetes has been been clearly shown to be not strongly
genetic in human identical twin studies:
> > This is not a good mouse model for human type-1 diabetes, which is
> > neither inherited nor associated with insulin resistance.
>
> In your opinion.
One shared by the NIAID which you cite below. Writing that the NOD
mouse is a "valuable animal model" is not the same as writing that it
is a good animal model of human type-1 diabetes.
> > This is also not a good mouse model for human type-2 diabetes, which
> > neither exhibits near-complete penetrance, nor early childhood onset,
> > nor early beta islet cell insufficiency.
>
> According the NiAID, "The NOD mouse, which spontaneously develops type 1
> diabetes, is a valuable animal model that is used extensively in research
> exploring the etiology, prevention, and treatment of this disease. It is a
> vital research tool for testing promising prevention and treatment
> strategies at the preclinical level."
> (http://www.niaid.nih.gov/dait/NODmice.htm)
This NIAID statement is consistent with the NOD mouse not being a
useful animal model for human type-2 diabetes.
> Did you actually read the paper?
Yes.
> The substance P receptors where only nerve fibers. There we no substance P
> receptors (TRPV1) on pancreatic cells. By infusing substance P into the
> pancreas (intra arterial infusion), the researchers were able to restore
> pancreatic function as well as insulin resistance.
>
> This paper, IMHO, is a really good paper because:
>
> 1) It clearly shows, in a commonly-used mouse model, that nerve fibers are
> controlling the pancreas. To best of my knowledge, this is the first time
> that such a direct connection between the nervous system and pancreas has
> been shown.
Actually, the GI tract has long been known to have its own "nervous
system."
> 2) A novel mechanism for pathogenesis of diabetes has been identified. Will
> this help in most cases of human disease? We can't tell yet. But this opens
> a new avenue of treatment for at least some people.
People with defective TRPV1 protein perhaps before the beta islet cells
are destroyed.
> 3) The authors were thorough. They showed that there were no TRPV1
> (substance P) receptors outside the nerve fibers, removal of the never
> fibers reduces infilltration of immune cells into the pamcreas and islets,
> the TRPV1 is dysfuntional in NOD mice and the genetic basis for the
> dysfuncitonk, and that injections of substance P restores pancreatic
> funciton and insulin sensitivity, and that C57/BL6J mice (B6), a type II
> model, had improved insulin sensitivy after capsaicin treatment.
Actually, the latter was not described (TRPV1 nulls are no longer B6)
and is a weakness of the paper because one wonders whether treating B6
mice with capsaicin improves insulin sensitivity because we can
replicate this more readily in humans before we can make human
transgenic nulls for TRPV1.
> IMHO, this paper clearly indicates that the nerve fibers and TRPV1 receptors
> play a critical role in at least some type I and type II models, and mostly,
> in at least some human type I and type II cases.
Actually, this paper showed data that is only directly applicable for
their NOD mice and B6 TRPV1 null mice. No human subject data was
presented.
> What mouse model would you chose for type I diabates?
Streptozocin induced.
> The authors also chose C57/BL6J mice (B6) to study insulin resistance. What
> would you have done differently?
Mice made diabetic with overfeeding on fructose-enriched western diets
(WD).
> >> > http://tinyurl.com/wppvj
> >> >
> >> > Would suggest waiting until after reading the Cell article before
> >> > possibly having more interest.
> >>
> >> I am not sure who is suggesting this (there is no subject in the
> >> sentence).
> >>
> >> However, it is an excellent idea. I needed a little light reading for
> >> this
> >> afternoon's train ride.
> >>
> >> http://download.cell.com/pdfs/0092-8674/PIIS0092867406014656.pdf
> >>
> >> To me, it seems to be very well done research. It definitely does
> >> suggest
> >> that the nervous system plays a role in diabetes, both T1 and T2. They
> >> also
> >> identified a gene and the receptor it codes for.
> >>
> >> It is very promising, both in that they may have already identified a
> >> treatment or even a cure, as well as the basic science that may lead to
> >> other treatments.
> >
> > For NOD mice perhaps but this work will not likely be generalizable to
> > humans because this mouse diabetes model has neither the inheritance
> > pattern nor the phenotypic presentation of either type-1 or type-2
> > human diabetes.
>
> Why do you think this won't translate to most human cases of diabetes?
Explanation given already.
Most humans cases will be in people with normal TRPV1 protein.
Prediction: Diabetic humans will not respond to capsaicin infusion just
as diabetic B6 likely did not respond to capsaicin infusion.
> Type I diabetes is an immune-mediate disease. Clearly the NOD mice have
> immune-mediate disease.
Human type-1 diabetes is not strongly inherited so there is no
expectation that it will ever be shown to involve an abnormal TRPV1
protein.
> > Would wait for attempts to replicate this work in mouse diabetes models
> > that have inheritance and phenotypic presentation patterns more similar
> > to that of humans.
>
> Who would wait? I think you need to read about pronouns.
Sorry implied pronouns distract you. Please forgive all my iniquities.
> Which models? Remember, this was primarily about type I diabetes, but the
> authors used a different type II model as well.
See above.
> > An example of such a model would be the fructose-fed mouse on a western
> > diet (WD):
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/y7wmy5
>
> The mice used by the author of the study you cited were: C57BL/6
> apolipoprotein (apo) E-/- mice. Why these mice?
They develop the vascular problems that we see in human diabetics. It
is the vascular problems that plague folks with diabetes and ultimately
kill them.
> The paper you cited has nothing to do with type I diabetes.
It is simply an example of the use of an animal model that more closely
resembles what is seen in humans both in patterns of inheritance and
phenotypic expression.
May GOD continue to heal our hearts with HIS living water curing our
diabetes, depression, anxiety or panic so that we can love our
Barbara's Cat
Yeah but you'd expect something like that
from someone with a small gall.
--
Cm~
Al
Whatever floats your boat!
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > Convicted neighbor Jeff wrote:
>
> <...>
Such would be your adverse reaction to the awesome power of
intercessory prayers by the brethren of LORD Jesus Christ made to our
heavenly Father lifting up those like you who have been convicted by
the Holy Spirit:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts
> > It remains a model of strongly genetic type-1 diabetes rather than a
> > model of acquired type-1 diabetes.
>
> Actually, it is a model of aquired type-diabetes. The mice develop diabetes
> over time. You ought to read the paper carefully.
It is the strong link between genotype and phenotype and not the time
course that determines whether a disease will be characterized as
genetic versus acquired.
>
> > Human type-1 diabetes has been been clearly shown to be not strongly
> > genetic in human identical twin studies:
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/yh2lde
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/ykrlla
>
> Which is exactly why you need a mouse model that has a high rate of
> diabetes. Otherwise, you would have to go through like 100,000 animals.
No. You use a environmental factor (ie streptozocin) to create an
animal model of an acquired disease.
> The model makes it much easier to compare results.
The utility of an animal model resides in its applicability to humans
and not ease of study for investigators.
> >> > This is not a good mouse model for human type-1 diabetes, which is
> >> > neither inherited nor associated with insulin resistance.
> >>
> >> In your opinion.
> >
> > One shared by the NIAID which you cite below. Writing that the NOD
> > mouse is a "valuable animal model" is not the same as writing that it
> > is a good animal model of human type-1 diabetes.
>
> I would ask that you provide evidence to support your claim that the NIAID
> doesn't think it is a good animal model of type 1 diabetes.
The evidence resides in understanding the wording. If it were a good
animal model for type-1 diabetes, they would have written that it is a
good animal model.
> >> > This is also not a good mouse model for human **type-2 diabetes**, which
> >> > neither exhibits near-complete penetrance, nor early childhood onset,
> >> > nor early beta islet cell insufficiency.
**emphasis** added.
> >> According the NiAID, "The NOD mouse, which spontaneously develops type 1
> >> diabetes, is a valuable animal model that is used extensively in research
> >> exploring the etiology, prevention, and treatment of this disease. It is
> >> a
> >> vital research tool for testing promising prevention and treatment
> >> strategies at the preclinical level."
> >> (http://www.niaid.nih.gov/dait/NODmice.htm)
> >
> > This NIAID statement is consistent with the NOD mouse not being a
> > useful animal model for human type-2 diabetes.
>
> No, it is about type 1 diabetes.
See **emphasis** above.
> >> Did you actually read the paper?
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> >> The substance P receptors where only nerve fibers. There we no substance
> >> P
> >> receptors (TRPV1) on pancreatic cells. By infusing substance P into the
> >> pancreas (intra arterial infusion), the researchers were able to restore
> >> pancreatic function as well as insulin resistance.
> >>
> >> This paper, IMHO, is a really good paper because:
> >>
> >> 1) It clearly shows, in a commonly-used mouse model, that nerve fibers
> >> are
> >> controlling the pancreas. To best of my knowledge, this is the first time
> >> that such a direct connection between the nervous system and pancreas has
> >> been shown.
> >
> > Actually, the GI tract has long been known to have its own "nervous
> > system."
>
> I do appreciate you clarifying this. I should have said endocrine pancreas.
My comment would have stayed the same.
> >> 2) A novel mechanism for pathogenesis of diabetes has been identified.
> >> Will
> >> this help in most cases of human disease? We can't tell yet. But this
> >> opens
> >> a new avenue of treatment for at least some people.
> >
> > People with defective TRPV1 protein perhaps before the beta islet cells
> > are destroyed.
>
> Or perhaps a lot more people than that.
Unlikely.
> >> 3) The authors were thorough. They showed that there were no TRPV1
> >> (substance P) receptors outside the nerve fibers, removal of the never
> >> fibers reduces infilltration of immune cells into the pamcreas and
> >> islets,
> >> the TRPV1 is dysfuntional in NOD mice and the genetic basis for the
> >> dysfuncitonk, and that injections of substance P restores pancreatic
> >> funciton and insulin sensitivity, and that C57/BL6J mice (B6), a type II
> >> model, had improved insulin sensitivy after capsaicin treatment.
> >
> > Actually, the latter was not described (TRPV1 nulls are no longer B6)
> > and is a weakness of the paper because one wonders whether treating B6
> > mice with capsaicin improves insulin sensitivity because we can
> > replicate this more readily in humans before we can make human
> > transgenic nulls for TRPV1.
Your missing this weakness of the paper does not bode well for your
ability to reliably interpret research in this area.
> >> IMHO, this paper clearly indicates that the nerve fibers and TRPV1
> >> receptors
> >> play a critical role in at least some type I and type II models, and
> >> mostly,
> >> in at least some **human** type I and type II cases.
**emphasis** added.
> > Actually, this paper showed data that is only directly applicable for
> > their NOD mice and B6 TRPV1 null mice. No human subject data was
> > presented.
>
> You appear to misinterpret what I meant.
see **emphasis** above.
> Of course, I know that no humans
> were subjects. But, the findings of these studies would be applicable to at
> least some cases of human diabetes, both type I and type II.
Premature conclusion based on data not presented.
> I suggest you write a letter to Cell recommending the authors you this mouse
> for their next paper.
It is likely they already have with negative results.
Capsaicin is not going to bring back dead beta islet cells.
> >> The authors also chose C57/BL6J mice (B6) to study insulin resistance.
> >> What
> >> would you have done differently?
> >
> > Mice made diabetic with overfeeding on fructose-enriched western diets
> > (WD).
>
> Write to the editors of Cell with this suggestion.
It is likely that they have already administered capsaicin to diabetic
B6 mice and failed to cure the animals.
> >> >> > http://tinyurl.com/wppvj
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Would suggest waiting until after reading the Cell article before
> >> >> > possibly having more interest.
> >> >>
> >> >> I am not sure who is suggesting this (there is no subject in the
> >> >> sentence).
> >> >>
> >> >> However, it is an excellent idea. I needed a little light reading for
> >> >> this
> >> >> afternoon's train ride.
> >> >>
> >> >> http://download.cell.com/pdfs/0092-8674/PIIS0092867406014656.pdf
> >> >>
> >> >> To me, it seems to be very well done research. It definitely does
> >> >> suggest
> >> >> that the nervous system plays a role in diabetes, both T1 and T2. They
> >> >> also
> >> >> identified a gene and the receptor it codes for.
> >> >>
> >> >> It is very promising, both in that they may have already identified a
> >> >> treatment or even a cure, as well as the basic science that may lead
> >> >> to
> >> >> other treatments.
> >> >
> >> > For NOD mice perhaps but this work will not likely be generalizable to
> >> > humans **because this mouse diabetes model has neither the inheritance
> >> > pattern nor the phenotypic presentation of either type-1 or type-2
> >> > human diabetes.**
**emphasis** added.
> >>
> >> Why do you think this won't translate to most human cases of diabetes?
> >
> > Explanation given already.
>
> No, actually, it has not been given.
See **emphasis** above.
> > Most humans cases will be in people with normal TRPV1 protein.
>
> Which does not mean that this will not translate to humans.
It does if capsaicin only works in mice with the NOD mutant TRPV1
protein.
> > Prediction: Diabetic humans will not respond to capsaicin infusion just
> > as diabetic B6 likely did not respond to capsaicin infusion.
>
> Actually, the capsaicin was given to mice pups on the second day of life. It
> wasn't injected SP. I always thought of infusion as IV.
It is likely that diabetic B6 mice were old enough (large enough) to
allow IV infusion of capsaicin just as diabetic humans will be large
enough to allow IV infusion of capsaicin.
> >> Type I diabetes is an immune-mediate disease. Clearly the NOD mice have
> >> immune-mediate disease.
> >
> > Human type-1 diabetes is not strongly inherited so there is no
> > expectation that it will ever be shown to involve an abnormal TRPV1
> > protein.
>
> IMHO, this doesn't follow logically. In fact, there is no reason to think
> this either way, at this point.
An understanding of genetics would be the reason to expect that if
human type-1 diabetes involved an abnormal TRPV1 protein that the
inheritance pattern would be like the NOD mouse model.
> >> > Would wait for attempts to replicate this work in mouse diabetes models
> >> > that have inheritance and phenotypic presentation patterns more similar
> >> > to that of humans.
> >>
> >> Who would wait? I think you need to read about pronouns.
> >
> > Sorry implied pronouns distract you. Please forgive all my iniquities.
> >
> >> Which models? Remember, this was primarily about type I diabetes, but the
> >> authors used a different type II model as well.
> >
> > See above.
> >
> >> > An example of such a model would be the fructose-fed mouse on a western
> >> > diet (WD):
> >> >
> >> > http://tinyurl.com/y7wmy5
> >>
> >> The mice used by the author of the study you cited were: C57BL/6
> >> apolipoprotein (apo) E-/- mice. Why these mice?
> >
> > They develop the vascular problems that we see in human diabetics. It
> > is the vascular problems that plague folks with diabetes and ultimately
> > kill them.
>
> Do the mice involved in this study show the same thing when they get older?
The B6 do not except when they are null for apoE.
> >> The paper you cited has nothing to do with type I diabetes.
> >
> > It is simply an example of the use of an animal model that more closely
> > resembles what is seen in humans both in patterns of inheritance and
> > phenotypic expression.
>
> OK, but it still has nothing to do with type I diabetes. The authors of the
> present study were studying type I diabetes.
They also studied a type-2 diabetes mouse model when they used the B6
mouse.
May GOD continue to heal our hearts with HIS living water curing our
diabetes, depression, anxiety, and panic so that we can love our
GeF
I don't believe in a interventionist God
But I know, darling, that you do
But if I did I would kneel down and ask Him
Not to intervene when it came to you
Not to touch a hair on yor head
To leave you as you are
and if He felt He had to direct you
then direct you into my arms
Into my arms, O Lord
Into my arms, O Lord
Into my arms, O Lord
Into my arms
And I don't believe in the existence of angels
But looking at you I wonder if that's true
But if I did I would summon them together
And ask them to watch over you
To each burn a candle for you
To make bright and clear your path
And to walk, like Christ, in grace and love
And guide you into my arms
Into my arms, O Lord
Into my arms, O Lord
Into my arms, O Lord
Into my arms
But I believe in Love
And I know that you do too
And I believe in some kind of path
That we can walk down, me and you
So keep your candles burning
and make her journey bright and pure
That she will keep returning
Always and evermore
Into my arms, O Lord
Into my arms, O Lord
Into my arms, O Lord
Into my arms
Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds
Art Deco
>Convicted neighbor Jeff wrote:
>> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>> > Convicted neighbor Jeff wrote:
>>
>> Another personal attack noted.
>> <...>
>
>Such would be your adverse reaction to the awesome power of
Still claiming there was no fire at the Pentagon, Chunk?
Jeff
"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <lov...@thetruth.com> wrote in message
news:1166314735....@t46g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Convicted neighbor Jeff wrote:
>> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>> > Convicted neighbor Jeff wrote:
>>
>> Another personal attack noted.
>> <...>
>
> Such would be your adverse reaction to the awesome power of
> intercessory prayers by the brethren of LORD Jesus Christ made to our
> heavenly Father lifting up those like you who have been convicted by
> the Holy Spirit:
>
> http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts
That is my reaction to you calling me a "Convicted neighbor."
>> > It remains a model of strongly genetic type-1 diabetes rather than a
>> > model of acquired type-1 diabetes.
>>
>> Actually, it is a model of aquired type-diabetes. The mice develop
>> diabetes
>> over time. You ought to read the paper carefully.
>
> It is the strong link between genotype and phenotype and not the time
> course that determines whether a disease will be characterized as
> genetic versus acquired.
>
>>
>> > Human type-1 diabetes has been been clearly shown to be not strongly
>> > genetic in human identical twin studies:
>> >
>> > http://tinyurl.com/yh2lde
>> >
>> > http://tinyurl.com/ykrlla
>>
>> Which is exactly why you need a mouse model that has a high rate of
>> diabetes. Otherwise, you would have to go through like 100,000 animals.
>
> No. You use a environmental factor (ie streptozocin) to create an
> animal model of an acquired disease.
Yet, streptozocin in not something that is the trigger of many cases of
human diabetes.
>> The model makes it much easier to compare results.
>
> The utility of an animal model resides in its applicability to humans
> and not ease of study for investigators.
Incorrect. While applicability to humans is a clearly a factor, ease of use
is a very important factor.
For example, in theory, chimpanzee models of diabetes would be more
applicable to humans because humans and chimpanzees diverged from their
common ancestor much more recently than mice. However, one can do many
different studies on mice in the time it takes to use chimpanzees.
>> >> > This is not a good mouse model for human type-1 diabetes, which is
>> >> > neither inherited nor associated with insulin resistance.
>> >>
>> >> In your opinion.
>> >
>> > One shared by the NIAID which you cite below. Writing that the NOD
>> > mouse is a "valuable animal model" is not the same as writing that it
>> > is a good animal model of human type-1 diabetes.
>>
>> I would ask that you provide evidence to support your claim that the
>> NIAID
>> doesn't think it is a good animal model of type 1 diabetes.
>
> The evidence resides in understanding the wording. If it were a good
> animal model for type-1 diabetes, they would have written that it is a
> good animal model.
So you can read minds, now.
Apparently, there are others who think it is a good model:
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1464-5491.2005.01499.x
You will see that in this review of animal models of diabetes, no model is
called a "good model."
<...>
>> >> Type I diabetes is an immune-mediate disease. Clearly the NOD mice
>> >> have
>> >> immune-mediate disease.
>> >
>> > Human type-1 diabetes is not strongly inherited so there is no
>> > expectation that it will ever be shown to involve an abnormal TRPV1
>> > protein.
>>
>> IMHO, this doesn't follow logically. In fact, there is no reason to think
>> this either way, at this point.
>
> An understanding of genetics would be the reason to expect that if
> human type-1 diabetes involved an abnormal TRPV1 protein that the
> inheritance pattern would be like the NOD mouse model.
Yet, a lot of genes are involved in human diseases with very complex
expression patterns.
In addition, it has not been shown that abnormal TRPV1 protien is the cause
of diabetes.
Only that you can manipulate the recieptor to treat or prevent the illness.
>> >> > Would wait for attempts to replicate this work in mouse diabetes
>> >> > models
>> >> > that have inheritance and phenotypic presentation patterns more
>> >> > similar
>> >> > to that of humans.
>> >>
>> >> Who would wait? I think you need to read about pronouns.
>> >
>> > Sorry implied pronouns distract you. Please forgive all my iniquities.
>> >
>> >> Which models? Remember, this was primarily about type I diabetes, but
>> >> the
>> >> authors used a different type II model as well.
>> >
>> > See above.
>> >
>> >> > An example of such a model would be the fructose-fed mouse on a
>> >> > western
>> >> > diet (WD):
>> >> >
>> >> > http://tinyurl.com/y7wmy5
>> >>
>> >> The mice used by the author of the study you cited were: C57BL/6
>> >> apolipoprotein (apo) E-/- mice. Why these mice?
>> >
>> > They develop the vascular problems that we see in human diabetics. It
>> > is the vascular problems that plague folks with diabetes and ultimately
>> > kill them.
>>
>> Do the mice involved in this study show the same thing when they get
>> older?
>
> The B6 do not except when they are null for apoE.
What about NOD mice?
>
>> >> The paper you cited has nothing to do with type I diabetes.
>> >
>> > It is simply an example of the use of an animal model that more closely
>> > resembles what is seen in humans both in patterns of inheritance and
>> > phenotypic expression.
>>
>> OK, but it still has nothing to do with type I diabetes. The authors of
>> the
>> present study were studying type I diabetes.
>
> They also studied a type-2 diabetes mouse model when they used the B6
> mouse.
I didn't say they didn't study type-2 diabetes. They studied BOTH types.
So far, IMHO, you have had nothing of value to add to this thread. If you
do, I will respond to you in this thread. Otherwise, Merry Christmas!
Jeff
<...>
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > Convicted neighbor Jeff wrote:
> >> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> >> > Convicted neighbor Jeff wrote:
> >>
> >> Another personal attack noted.
> >> <...>
> >
> > Such would be your adverse reaction to the awesome power of
> > intercessory prayers by the brethren of LORD Jesus Christ made to our
> > heavenly Father lifting up those like you who have been convicted by
> > the Holy Spirit:
> >
> > http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts
>
> That is my reaction to you calling me a "Convicted neighbor."
That is not what I discern.
> >> > It remains a model of strongly genetic type-1 diabetes rather than a
> >> > model of acquired type-1 diabetes.
> >>
> >> Actually, it is a model of aquired type-diabetes. The mice develop
> >> diabetes
> >> over time. You ought to read the paper carefully.
> >
> > It is the strong link between genotype and phenotype and not the time
> > course that determines whether a disease will be characterized as
> > genetic versus acquired.
> >
> >> > Human type-1 diabetes has been been clearly shown to be not strongly
> >> > genetic in human identical twin studies:
> >> >
> >> > http://tinyurl.com/yh2lde
> >> >
> >> > http://tinyurl.com/ykrlla
> >>
> >> Which is exactly why you need a mouse model that has a high rate of
> >> diabetes. Otherwise, you would have to go through like 100,000 animals.
> >
> > No. You use a environmental factor (ie streptozocin) to create an
> > animal model of an acquired disease.
>
> Yet, streptozocin in not something that is the trigger of many cases of
> human diabetes.
That is not essential for creating an animal model of an acquired human
disease.
> >> The model makes it much easier to compare results.
> >
> > The utility of an animal model resides in its applicability to humans
> > and not ease of study for investigators.
>
> Incorrect. While applicability to humans is a clearly a factor, ease of use
> is a very important factor.
Not for those with a eye toward applying what is learned to humans.
> For example, in theory, chimpanzee models of diabetes would be more
> applicable to humans because humans and chimpanzees diverged from their
> common ancestor much more recently than mice. However, one can do many
> different studies on mice in the time it takes to use chimpanzees.
The applicability of an animal model resides not in the relatedness of
the chosen animal species but in the relatedness of the pathophysiology
of the disease recreated.
> >> >> > This is not a good mouse model for human type-1 diabetes, which is
> >> >> > neither inherited nor associated with insulin resistance.
> >> >>
> >> >> In your opinion.
> >> >
> >> > One shared by the NIAID which you cite below. Writing that the NOD
> >> > mouse is a "valuable animal model" is not the same as writing that it
> >> > is a good animal model of human type-1 diabetes.
> >>
> >> I would ask that you provide evidence to support your claim that the
> >> NIAID
> >> doesn't think it is a good animal model of type 1 diabetes.
> >
> > The evidence resides in understanding the wording. If it were a good
> > animal model for type-1 diabetes, they would have written that it is a
> > good animal model.
>
> So you can read minds, now.
GOD's gift of a discerning heart is not the same as HIS gift of
clairvoyance.
> Apparently, there are others who think it is a good model:
> http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1464-5491.2005.01499.x
>
> You will see that in this review of animal models of diabetes, no model is
> called a "good model."
>From your source:
"The non-obese diabetic (NOD) mouse and bio breeding (BB) rat are the
two most commonly used animals that spontaneously develop diseases with
similarities to human Type 1 diabetes (Table 3). It should be noted
that these animals have been inbred in laboratories for many
generations, by selecting for hyperglycaemia. As a result of this
process, many genes and phenotypes will have been enriched, but not all
will be relevant
to the pathophysiology of diabetes, either in rodents or in humans."
"Unlike human Type 1 diabetes, ketoacidosis is relatively mild and
affected animals can survive for weeks without the administration of
insulin. Also, in contrast to the findings of most studies in humans,
there is a larger gender difference with 90% of females, but only 60%
of males developing diabetes in some colonies"
"There is little doubt that some animal models of diabetes have
provided an invaluable insight into the pathogenesis of the human
disease. Patients have directly benefited from the use of animals in
the discovery of insulin and the assessment of other treatments.
However, there have been 'blind-alleys' in research as well, such
as the lack of reproducible paradigms of human diabetic complications
and the disappointing results of studies aimed at preventing Type 1
diabetes based on strategies that are successful in rodents."
> <...>
>
> >> >> Type I diabetes is an immune-mediate disease. Clearly the NOD mice
> >> >> have
> >> >> immune-mediate disease.
> >> >
> >> > Human type-1 diabetes is not strongly inherited so there is no
> >> > expectation that it will ever be shown to involve an abnormal TRPV1
> >> > protein.
> >>
> >> IMHO, this doesn't follow logically. In fact, there is no reason to think
> >> this either way, at this point.
> >
> > An understanding of genetics would be the reason to expect that if
> > human type-1 diabetes involved an abnormal TRPV1 protein that the
> > inheritance pattern would be like the NOD mouse model.
>
> Yet, a lot of genes are involved in human diseases with very complex
> expression patterns.
Another reason to suspect a monogenic animal model will not be high
yield for insights applicable to human disease.
> In addition, it has not been shown that abnormal TRPV1 protien is the cause
> of diabetes.
Actually the abnormal TRPV1 protein has been shown to be the cause of
diabetes in the NOD mouse by the genetic rescue experiments.
> Only that you can manipulate the recieptor to treat or prevent the illness.
Or bring back the normal TRPV1 protein to prevent the diabetes.
> >> >> > Would wait for attempts to replicate this work in mouse diabetes
> >> >> > models
> >> >> > that have inheritance and phenotypic presentation patterns more
> >> >> > similar
> >> >> > to that of humans.
> >> >>
> >> >> Who would wait? I think you need to read about pronouns.
> >> >
> >> > Sorry implied pronouns distract you. Please forgive all my iniquities.
> >> >
> >> >> Which models? Remember, this was primarily about type I diabetes, but
> >> >> the
> >> >> authors used a different type II model as well.
> >> >
> >> > See above.
> >> >
> >> >> > An example of such a model would be the fructose-fed mouse on a
> >> >> > western
> >> >> > diet (WD):
> >> >> >
> >> >> > http://tinyurl.com/y7wmy5
> >> >>
> >> >> The mice used by the author of the study you cited were: C57BL/6
> >> >> apolipoprotein (apo) E-/- mice. Why these mice?
> >> >
> >> > They develop the vascular problems that we see in human diabetics. It
> >> > is the vascular problems that plague folks with diabetes and ultimately
> >> > kill them.
> >>
> >> Do the mice involved in this study show the same thing when they get
> >> older?
> >
> > The B6 do not except when they are null for apoE.
>
> What about NOD mice?
No.
> >> >> The paper you cited has nothing to do with type I diabetes.
> >> >
> >> > It is simply an example of the use of an animal model that more closely
> >> > resembles what is seen in humans both in patterns of inheritance and
> >> > phenotypic expression.
> >>
> >> OK, but it still has nothing to do with type I diabetes. The authors of
> >> the
> >> present study were studying type I diabetes.
> >
> > They also studied a type-2 diabetes mouse model when they used the B6
> > mouse.
>
> I didn't say they didn't study type-2 diabetes. They studied BOTH types.
Thus the cited paper being about an animal model of type-2 diabetes is
relevant here.
May GOD continue to heal our hearts with HIS living water curing our
diabetes, depression, anxiety, or panic so that we can love our
Art Deco
>Convicted neighbor Jeff wrote:
>> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>> > Convicted neighbor Jeff wrote:
>> >> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>> >> > Convicted neighbor Jeff wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Another personal attack noted.
>> >> <...>
>> >
>> > Such would be your adverse reaction to the awesome power of
>> > intercessory prayers by the brethren of LORD Jesus Christ made to our
>> > heavenly Father lifting up those like you who have been convicted by
>> > the Holy Spirit:
>> >
>> > http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts
>>
>> That is my reaction to you calling me a "Convicted neighbor."
>
>That is not what I discern.
BFD, Chunk, do you really think anyone cares what you "discern" through
the "holy sprit"?
coon...@amestwp.com
"Depends on the diabetic mouse model they used."
and:
"Would suggest waiting until after reading the Cell article before
possibly having more interest."
Looking at the full article the mouse model chosen was correct because
of a mutation that causes a chronic condition that mimics type 1
diabetes very well.
Also noted in the 'discussion' section was an ongoing human trial using
a similar approach to counter the same effect the mutation causes in the
mice used.
Cardinal Snarky of the Fannish Inquisition
didst finally confess, after taking Muche Tea:
>
> call your gripe against Dr. Chung ..
"Weariness."
--
________________________________________________________________________
Hail Eris!
Demon Prince of Absurdity
"And no, I did not have sex with my son. But if I did I certainly
wouldn't tell you. Something so beautiful and precious should be kept
private." -- Kathy L. Mosesian, or possibly not really her, confesses
she may be a liar and committer of incest with her own son, in MID:
<cfcd3f4660694e3a...@msgid.frell.theremailer.net>
The reporter asked Colin Powell (or George Bush), "What proof do you
have that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction?"
He replied, "We kept the receipts." -- Bill Hicks
"They thought I was fair game. I was an instrument of purpose to achieve
their desires and not 100 percent real and ALSO that they had me by the
short curlies because I thought that the world revolved around them and
therefore I think that I am fair game and rightly so. If they want to
play dirty, I get to too. It's not a one-way street. I will use the
physcial strength that I have over them, my superior 5'7-3/4" height
advantage, the boxing moves I paid to learn, the suprise of pussyfooting
up to them with their back to me in a public place 18 1/2 years after
the fact and thus not only do will they not know that I am but a pica's
distance away from them, but that I even exist on earth." -- Chris Tsao
is secretly John Wentzky's psychic twin. MID:
<1161246083.1...@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>
Looney Maroon nominee for August 2006 Johnny D Wentzky foamed:
"You never asked someone who goes into areas of the internet that are
only for adults who has an underage id somehow or another if they are a
cop posing as an underage person online?
I guess lots of people just don't watch dateline or read stories much.
Why don;t you go to pervertedjustice,com and see what they do. They are
awash in their self-proclaimed glory after they lied to membners of the
public.
They are awash in their self-proclaimed glory after they posed as an
underage person and agreed to do all sorts of sex acts wioth adult
males, and they are adults posing as teenager themselves. They make
themsleves into liars by falsely impersonating underage persons and by
not fuilfilling the words they tell the victims online in their chats.
Why don't you read it where they tell these victims of their deceit
about how they have been with grown men and such? Why don't you read it
where they say, "That would be cool." after someone makes an advance
towards an adult who is posing as a teenager? And, where they agree to
meet the person, etc.
Lost control, didn't you?
Is that why you feel as if you need to lie so much now? I see where lots
of these false impersonation games are not sticking. They feel as if
they can lie and then order the victims to get counseling in the
gayblade, governmental, pro-choice tax leech counseling centers. They
are doing nothing more than usury and fraud in many cases." -- Wentzky
almost comes out of the closet as a pedo/ephebophile in MID:
<H%%Eg.28916$Uq1....@bignews6.bellsouth.net>
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> GeF wrote:
> >
> > call your gripe against Dr. Chung ..
>
> "Weariness."
Without the LORD, there can be only weariness, despair, and failure.
On the other hand, for the brethren of LORD Jesus Christ...
"...with GOD, all things are possible." -- LORD Jesus Christ (Matthew
19:26)
Amen ! Laus Deo ! ! ! Marana tha ! ! ! ! ! ! !
May GOD continue to heal our hearts with HIS living water curing our
diabetes, depression, anxiety, or panic so that we can love our
neighbors a little more and LORD Jesus Christ a lot more, dear neighbor
Conspiracy of Doves
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
You mentioned 'proof'. I didn't see any.
Startlemyerfieldson
"Conspiracy of Doves" <mark...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1166544669....@i12g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Chunky just wants us all to take his word on it.
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
Chinese Water Torturer
Startlemyerfieldson wrote:
> > You mentioned 'proof'. I didn't see any.
> >
>
> Chunky just wants us all to take his word on it.
Uh.."it is written". Or something like that.
Pastor Kutchie
Chinese Water Torturer wrote:
It is written that Mary had a little lamb.
Cary Kittrell
> Convicted neighbor wrote:
> > GeF wrote:
> > >
> > > call your gripe against Dr. Chung ..
> >
> > "Weariness."
>
> Without the LORD, there can be only weariness, despair, and failure.
So, when do I begin to be able to consciously detect all this
insensate weariness, unfelt despair, and unnoticed failure?
I was perfectly happy until you brought this up, but now
I feel like I'm not getting my fair share of abuse.
What a bummer!
-- cary
Art Deco
lestat
It's glory lies beyond judgement of souls
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
lestat
lestat
this religion debate and get on with what this site was meant for?
ANXIETY!
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
Robibnikoff
"lestat" <lestat...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1166618544.5...@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
> YOUR GOD DIED FOR HIS OWN SINS......not mine!!!!!!!!
Ooooookay.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
Atheist Bastard Extraordinaire
#1557
Pastor Kutchie
lestat wrote:
> Great. We all have our views on religion. Can we FUCKING PLEASE stop
> this religion debate and get on with what this site was meant for?
> ANXIETY!
>
Earthquack has an answer for everything, he's a mindless godbot with no
empathy.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirt, boldly wrote:
> > Convicted neighbor wrote:
> > > GeF wrote:
> > > >
> > > > call your gripe against Dr. Chung ..
> > >
> > > "Weariness."
> >
> > Without the LORD, there can be only weariness, despair, and failure.
>
> So, when do I begin to be able to consciously detect all this
> insensate weariness, unfelt despair, and unnoticed failure?
By opening your eyes and reviewing this thread starting with the OP:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/8ff0d0759cbf2a52?
... and witnessing the behavior of those like you who have been
convicted by the Holy Spirit:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts
... and the behavior of those who have become demons from unwisely
choosing to blaspheme the Holy Spirit:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/55b9f72abe5705dc?
Cary Kittrell
> Convicted neighbor Cary Kittrell wrote:
> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirt, boldly wrote:
> > > Convicted neighbor wrote:
> > > > GeF wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > call your gripe against Dr. Chung ..
> > > >
> > > > "Weariness."
> > >
> > > Without the LORD, there can be only weariness, despair, and failure.
> >
> > So, when do I begin to be able to consciously detect all this
> > insensate weariness, unfelt despair, and unnoticed failure?
>
> By opening your eyes
OK, open..
> and reviewing this thread starting with the OP:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/8ff0d0759cbf2a52?
That would be of interest if I were either a diabetic or a mouse --
and if I were a diabetic mouse, I'm sure it would be riveting --
but let's keep slogging, shall we?...
>
> ... and witnessing the behavior of those like you who have been
> convicted by the Holy Spirit:
>
> http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts
Yep, the usual Usenet bash-and-be-bashed, nothing out of
the ordinary here...
>
> ... and the behavior of those who have become demons from unwisely
> choosing to blaspheme the Holy Spirit:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/55b9f72abe5705dc?
Posting pretty much the same way as they always have, nothing
really to remark on there either.
Sorry, I gave it an honest try, but I STILL don't feel weary,
nor despairing, and my code seems to be going quite well
today.
Some other time, perhaps.
- cary
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Sad to witness that you have grown weary.
Despite your weariness, you remain wiser that those who have chosen to
blaspheme the Holy Spirit and are now demons. Here are examples of a
couple still loitering here on usenet:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/c4c711fb6d3b05d7?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/e6b379c794196fcc?
Cary Kittrell
Of trying to perceive my own elusive and ne'er-perceived weariness,
you mean? Well, that's my own fault: instead of jumping through
all the hoops you had me do, I should merely have pointed out
that all this "weariness, despair, and failure" was supposed
to show up as a package deal contingent on my being "without the
LORD", but since it didn't, it's not really my job to pursue
it.
-- cary
Art Deco
>... and the behavior of those who have become demons
Hypocrite.
>from unwisely
>choosing to blaspheme the Holy Spirit:
Looks like you need to put up a new ko0kpage on your ko9kshite litsing
all the "demons", Chunk. Get cracking.
Art Deco
>Despite your weariness, you remain wiser that those who have chosen to
>blaspheme the Holy Spirit and are now demons. Here are examples of a
>couple still loitering here on usenet:
Spammer.
[kooklinks flushed]
The God of Odd Statements
> Great. We all have our views on religion. Can we FUCKING PLEASE stop this
> religion debate and get on with what this site was meant for? ANXIETY!
You have my deepest sympathies, but you should be aware that ASA-P is a
newsgroup, not a site, Google notwithstanding. However, I would like to
request of the regs of alt.atheism that they kindly remove the support
groups either from the groups line (when replying to Chung) or the
followups (when replying to support group regs), in future.
Also, you may be pleased to know that Chung won the "Frootcake" Award,
hands down, but lost the Bag of Coal to Pam Russell.
--
________________________________________________________________________
Hail Eris! mhm 29x21; TM#5; Chung Convict #39
Demon Lord of Confusion
COOSN-029-06-71069
Supreme High Overlord of rec.radio.*
Chuck Lysaght: Tarred & Feathered!
"Q: What do you call someone in the White House who is honest, caring,
and well-read?
A: A tourist." -- Anonymous
"It would be offly hard for any of you to abuse me on usenet. Really. I
have the advantage. I could easily turn alt.usenet.kooks into a cesspool
of encoded posts. Bringing the noise ratio up so high as to make the
group worthless. Anybody who can code could do this, why nobody has
bothered before now is beyond me. The ultimate spamming engine..
'BAWAHAHA'" -- Dustbin "Outer Filth" K00k's delusions of grandeur
reached new heights, in Message-ID:
<Xns98355D29419...@69.28.186.121>
"Immorality: The morality of those who are having a better time." -- H.
L. Mencken
"Consider that language a moment. 'Purposefully and materially
supported hostilities against the United States' is in the eye of the
beholder, and this administration has proven itself to be astonishingly
impatient with criticism of any kind. The broad powers given to Bush by
this legislation allow him to capture, indefinitely detain, and refuse a
hearing to any American citizen who speaks out against Iraq or any other
part of the so-called 'War on Terror.'
"If you write a letter to the editor attacking Bush, you could be
deemed as purposefully and materially supporting hostilities against the
United States. If you organize or join a public demonstration against
Iraq, or against the administration, the same designation could befall
you. One dark-comedy aspect of the legislation is that senators or House
members who publicly disagree with Bush, criticize him, or organize
investigations into his dealings could be placed under the same
designation. In effect, Congress just gave Bush the power to lock them
up." -- William Rivers Pitt
"It has become clear in recent months that a critical mass of the American
people have seen through the lies of the Bush administration; with the
president's polls at an historic low, growing resistance to the war Iraq,
and the Democrats likely to take back the Congress in mid-term elections,
the Bush administration is on the ropes. And so it is particularly
worrying that President Bush has seen fit, at this juncture to, in effect,
declare himself dictator." -- Frank Morales
http://www.uruknet.biz/?p=m27769&hd=0&size=1&l=e&fark
"No man in History, including JESUS CHRIST, has directly revealed to
the World the SATANIC WEAPON used to enslave mankind -- INTELLECTUAL
THOUGHT!!" -- Ray Karczewski repeatedly proves his words in every post
he makes
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Yet you still have been compelled to respond despite the weariness that
you feel.
Clearly you remain convicted by the Holy Spirit:
Art Deco
>Clearly you
are an idiot, Chunk.
Cary Kittrell
And my eyelids are getting h e a v y, right? V e r y v e r y
h e a v y ... I am feeling v e r y r e l a x e d, right?
Getting v e r y v e r y v e r y s l e e e e p y.
Sorry, Chung, but I've never -- sometimes to my regret --
been very suggestible. Didn't work.
Nice try, though.
-- cary
Father Kylesmas
news:201220061519308965%erfc...@usa.net:
He definately said demons this time.
--
Phil Kyle™
T
h i
i s
s l
f i l
S o n o
i u e n
g r s g
Art Deco
>Art Deco <erfc...@usa.net> verbally sodomised in
>news:201220061519308965%erfc...@usa.net:
>
>> Andy B. Chunk in the "holy sprit" stroked his own ego and wrote:
>>
>>>... and the behavior of those who have become demons
>>
>> Hypocrite.
>>
>>>from unwisely
>>>choosing to blaspheme the Holy Spirit:
>>
>> Looks like you need to put up a new ko0kpage on your ko9kshite litsing
>> all the "demons", Chunk. Get cracking.
>>
>
>He definately said demons this time.
Quite correct, he did say demons. He also said that typing
*BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK*
*BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK*
*BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK*
*BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK*
*BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK*
*BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK*
*BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK* *BAWK*
in reply to one of his kookpoasts constitutes "blasphemy of the Holy
Spirit".
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Art Deco
>Clearly, you
need to shuttup, Chunk.
ah
Crack legal team?
ah
Well, asterical emphasis might be (tenuously) construed as idolatry, but
blasphemy . . . ?
I think not.
Art Deco
Art Deco
Father Kylesmas
The holy spirit of chicken soup?
Father Kylesmas
news:458d299a$0$25995$8f2e...@news.shared-secrets.com:
LAFF!
Art Deco
Text Medium No. 5
jabbered inanely:
Don't you mean:
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK**BAWK*
*BAWK*?
--
Shon'ai COOSN-029-06-71069
"I was told there would be cookies."
Cross-Poasters For Goddess!
Remember: Straight people can't help it!
A petition to make the Five-Fingered Hand of Eris
the official symbol for the planet Eris:
http://www.petitiononline.com/ffhoeris/
"If you don't have pedicures AT LEAST every two weeks, don't talk to me.
If you don't floss every night and morning and brush at least twice a
day, don't talk to me. If you don't spend money on you hair and get
great cuts and color, don't talk to me. If you are heavy, don't talk to
me. If you don't shower every morning and take a nice bubble bath every
night, don't talk to me. If you don't have a loved one in your arms,
don't talk to me. If you don't keep an immaculate house, don't talk to
me. If you don't work, don't talk to me." -- Clearly, Martha Vandella
never wants to talk to me, which is for the best, really.
MID: <1161934857....@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
~tanya
Pastor Kutchie wrote:
> Chinese Water Torturer wrote:
wow. that's HOT !
(not tha name, tha FANTASY, of course.)
> It is written that Mary had a little lamb.
...and tied it to'ah heater.
ever time he turned around he burnt his lil peeter.
(that story always makes me cry.)
~tanya
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> demon KP wrote:
> > unnamed demon wrote:
>
> wow. that's HOT !
>
> (not tha name, tha FANTASY, of course.)
>
> > It is written that Mary had a little lamb.
>
> ...and tied it to'ah heater.
>
> ever time he turned around he burnt his lil peeter.
>
> (that story always makes me cry.)
Clearly you remain convicted by the Holy Spirit:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/052b083b2783cffe?
May GOD continue to heal our hearts with HIS living water curing our
diabetes, depression, anxiety, or panic so that we can love our
neighbors a little more and LORD Jesus Christ a lot more, dear Tanya
whom I love unconditionally.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung
Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit
As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies
(Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Love
Art Deco
>Clearly you
are still a support group-spamming kook, Chunk.
Flying Rat
says...
> Andy B. Chunk in the "holy sprit" stroked his own ego and wrote:
>
> >Clearly you
>
> are still a support group-spamming kook, Chunk.
>
welfare check restricted menu, didn't make him totally k00k out on Xmas
Day.
FR
--
Andrew Chung:
Is a frequent and proven liar (evidence archived forever on Google)
Has lost numerous NNTP accounts with supernews and others, has had many
Google accounts nuked, and his vanity domain heartmdphd.com is now
banned from setting up accounts. He is instead using multiple Google
sock accounts and email addresses in the format love#@thetruth.com (#
being a number)
Is unemployed after being sacked with cause from his one and only job
after just over 80 days
Fled the state of Florida, and now claims to practice in Georgia despite
having no admission priveliges in the State's hospitals
Runs a phony foundation with a total declared income of circa $200, the
ownership and contact details of which are obfuscated on its website
Makes failed prophecies concerning earthquakes with areas and dates,
which don't happen (remember the bible quotes about false prophets)
Performed a public attempt at 'exorcising' a Malaysian sock on usenet,
then denied doing it. He has recently reversed position again and admits
to practicing exorcism by usenet, proving himself a liar in the process.
Promotes a dangerous diet, with a million dollar guarantee that he
demands thirty dollars to access details of. This despite being
unemployed. His soliciting and spamming for donations looks to be
similar to the Nigerian Advance Fee Fraud, where victims pay money
upfront in the hope of coming into money but find they have merely
bought into a lie. Part of his advice is to pour nail polish remover
onto food.
Declares he has a cardiology practice despite posting night and day from
the same IP address (his home presumably) or a coffee shop internet cafe
Makes further false prophecies that we should now be all dying in a bird
flu pandemic. When these fail to happen, he does them all over again and
changes the dates. Nuclear war is another Chung spciality, which
naturally doesn't happen when he says it is going to.
Worships evil hatemonger Fred Phelps and will not denounce the acts of
Westboro's congregation. He even accuses someone with the name Phelps of
being Fred's son and refuses to accept he is completely wrong.
Uses the same patter as Pat Robertson, indicating his religious activity
is confined to watching cable TV. No evidence Chung has ever attended a
church.
Has a tendency to cyberstalk, particularly women. His wife fled some
time ago to another state, an act which Chung tries to pass of as "being
on vacation".
Frequently passes himself off as being qualified in areas such as
endocrinology, despite making incredibly funddamental blunders in his
'advice'. It is no wonder the Florida heart facility terminated him, and
has publicly denounced his version of events. Again archived on
Google.Andrew Chung:
Is a frequent and proven liar (evidence archived forever on Google)
Has lost numerous NNTP accounts with supernews and others, has had many
Google accounts nuked, and his vanity domain heartmdphd.com is now
banned from setting up accounts. He is instead using multiple Google
sock accounts and email addresses in the format love#@thetruth.com (#
being a number)
Is unemployed after being sacked with cause from his one and only job
after just over 80 days
Fled the state of Florida, and now claims to practice in Georgia despite
having no admission priveliges in the State's hospitals
Runs a phony foundation with a total declared income of circa $200, the
ownership and contact details of which are obfuscated on its website
Makes failed prophecies concerning earthquakes with areas and dates,
which don't happen (remember the bible quotes about false prophets)
Performed a public attempt at 'exorcising' a Malaysian sock on usenet,
then denied doing it. He has recently reversed position again and admits
to practicing exorcism by usenet, proving himself a liar in the process.
Promotes a dangerous diet, with a million dollar guarantee that he
demands thirty dollars to access details of. This despite being
unemployed. His soliciting and spamming for donations looks to be
similar to the Nigerian Advance Fee Fraud, where victims pay money
upfront in the hope of coming into money but find they have merely
bought into a lie.
Declares he has a cardiology practice despite posting night and day from
the same IP address (his home presumably) or a coffee shop internet cafe
Makes further false prophecies that we should now be all dying in a bird
flu pandemic. When these fail to happen, he does them all over again and
changes the dates. Nuclear war is another Chung spciality, which
naturally doesn't happen when he says it is going to.
Worships evil hatemonger Fred Phelps and will not denounce the acts of
Westboro's congregation. He even accuses someone with the name Phelps of
being Fred's son and refuses to accept he is completely wrong.
Uses the same patter as Pat Robertson, indicating his religious activity
is confined to watching cable TV. No evidence Chung has ever attended a
church.
Has a tendency to cyberstalk, particularly women. His wife fled some
time ago to another state, an act which Chung tries to pass of as "being
on vacation".
Frequently passes himself off as being qualified in areas such as
endocrinology, despite making incredibly funddamental blunders in his
'advice'. It is no wonder the Florida heart facility terminated him, and
has publicly denounced his version of events. Again archived on Google.
Don't forget the fake fast, where he didn't lose any weight, as well as
the infamous 666 stamping fiasco.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> mascot demon wrote:
> >
> > are still a support group-spamming kook, Chunk.
> >
> I was somewhat disappointed that loneliness and despair, together with a
> welfare check restricted menu, didn't make him totally k00k out on Xmas
> Day.
Clearly you remain convicted by the Holy Spirit:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts
Now we, the brethren of LORD Jesus Christ, while praying for you, will
eventually witness one of three of the following:
(1) You will unwisely choose to blaspheme the Holy Spirit and become a
demon like the one loitering here in this thread.
(2) You will unwisely choose to curse GOD and die before you can even
publish the curse as has happened to atheist psychologist Sigmund Freud
who died in such excruciating pain that morphine could not provide
relief.
(3) You will wisely choose to surrender to our Messiah and receive
eternal life:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/fcb058da12bb3f3d?
May GOD continue to heal our hearts with HIS living water curing our
diabetes, depression, anxiety, or panic so that we can love our
neighbors a little more and LORD Jesus Christ a lot more, dear neighbor
Art Deco
>In article <271220060914075418%erfc...@usa.net>, erfc...@usa.net
>says...
>> Andy B. Chunk in the "holy sprit" stroked his own ego and wrote:
>>
>> >Clearly you
>>
>> are still a support group-spamming kook, Chunk.
>>
>I was somewhat disappointed that loneliness and despair, together with a
>welfare check restricted menu, didn't make him totally k00k out on Xmas
>Day.
He was rather subdued, but I've noticed the rate at which he labels
people "convicted" and "demons" has risen sharply in the past week.
There are a bunch on new entries in the hate list on the kookshite.
Art Deco
>Convicted neighbor Flying Rat wrote:
>> mascot demon wrote:
>> >
>> > are still a support group-spamming kook, Chunk.
>> >
>> I was somewhat disappointed that loneliness and despair, together with a
>> welfare check restricted menu, didn't make him totally k00k out on Xmas
>> Day.
>
>Clearly you remain convicted by the Holy Spirit:
Still posting your screed, kookboi?