Re: Contracting Diabetes
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Hello, I am new to this newsgroup although I am quite familiar with the
> internet as I have used it since college. I have been recently diagnosed
> with type 2 diabetes and have been given a great deal of information
> which I am slowly sifting through. I am told by various sources that
> diabetes isn't curable and although they are aware of some contributing
> factors, excess weight, hereditary instances, some medications etc etc,
> they still aren't really sure what causes it.
Actually, it is now clear that type 2 diabetes arises after years of
having metabolic syndrome (MetS).
> I have been reading
> through this group on google and have noticed that there is a doctor on
> here who says that it is curable, but he seems to think that is only so
> if the diabetic is over weight.
Type 2 diabetes is possibly curable after the underlying MetS (insulin
resistance) is cured.
> I am not.
It is likely you still have visceral adipose tissue (VAT) in amounts
that are significant for you to have MetS.
> Are there any other ways, and
> is it possible that a healthy non diabetic person can contract diabetes
> from close contact with several people who have diabetes?
No.
> It concerns me a great deal, both the conflicting advice from
> professional sources, and the possibility that I may have caught it from
> spending too much time in close contact with diabetics. If that is so,
> I am worried about the possibility of passing it on.
No need for you to worry about passing your type 2 diabetes on to
others except for passing on the predisposition to your children.
May GOD heal your heart by curing your type-2 diabetes, dear neighbor
Sam whom I love unconditionally.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung
Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit
As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies
(Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed?
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > Samantha Montague wrote:
> >
> >> Hello, I am new to this newsgroup although I am quite familiar with the
> >> internet as I have used it since college. I have been recently diagnosed
> >> with type 2 diabetes and have been given a great deal of information
> >> which I am slowly sifting through. I am told by various sources that
> >> diabetes isn't curable and although they are aware of some contributing
> >> factors, excess weight, hereditary instances, some medications etc etc,
> >> they still aren't really sure what causes it.
> >
> > Actually, it is now clear that type 2 diabetes arises after years of
> > having metabolic syndrome (MetS).
> >
> Diabetes, and that test came back < 100.
Many folks with MetS have normal FBGs (< 100 mg/dL).
May GOD heal your heart by curing your diabetes, dear brother Michael
kumar
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> Type 2 diabetes is possibly curable after the underlying MetS (insulin
> resistance) is cured.
As such, how can we declare a person as diabetic, if he is still
secreting normal or excessive insulin as compared to healthy person?
> It is likely you still have visceral adipose tissue (VAT) in amounts
> that are significant for you to have MetS.
Is it possible to remove greater visceral adiposity by using heat
applications and vasodilators?
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
>
> > Type 2 diabetes is possibly curable after the underlying MetS (insulin
> > resistance) is cured.
>
> As such, how can we declare a person as diabetic, if he is still
> secreting normal or excessive insulin as compared to healthy person?
On the basis of fasting hyperglycemia.
> > It is likely you still have visceral adipose tissue (VAT) in amounts
> > that are significant for you to have MetS.
>
> Is it possible to remove greater visceral adiposity by using heat
> applications and vasodilators?
No.
VAT is removed only by eating less.
You may not have very much time left:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/f9b4caf338c73d45?
May GOD continue to keep your heart beating, dear neighbor Kumar whom I
Ted Rosenberg
Kumar
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> kumar wrote:
> > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> >
> > > Type 2 diabetes is possibly curable after the underlying MetS (insulin
> > > resistance) is cured.
> >
> > As such, how can we declare a person as diabetic, if he is still
> > secreting normal or excessive insulin as compared to healthy person?
>
> On the basis of fasting hyperglycemia.
It is just insulin resistence or predisposition to overeat or
predisposition to get such conditions which cause excessive craving and
hunger?
> > > It is likely you still have visceral adipose tissue (VAT) in amounts
> > > that are significant for you to have MetS.
> >
> > Is it possible to remove greater visceral adiposity by using heat
> > applications and vasodilators?
>
> No.
Vasoconstriction or which contract muscle's(which may cause excessive
gas in abdomen) may be linked to greater visceral adiposity?
> VAT is removed only by eating less.
All people inspite eating same don't get VAT.??
> You may not have very much time left:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/f9b4caf338c73d45?
>
> May GOD continue to keep your heart beating, dear neighbor Kumar whom I
> love unconditionally.
>
> Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
>
> Andrew <><
> --
> Andrew B. Chung
> Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
> http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit
My holy and true advice, never make predictions esp. this type even
though you are very near or just equal to GOD/LORD. EVEN HE DON'T TELL
SUCH THINGS IN ADVANCE. Let one live without fear of death. It may not
be liked by GOD/LORD as this is HIS "ABSOLUTE FIELD". PLS...
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > kumar wrote:
> > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > >
> > > > Type 2 diabetes is possibly curable after the underlying MetS (insulin
> > > > resistance) is cured.
> > >
> > > As such, how can we declare a person as diabetic, if he is still
> > > secreting normal or excessive insulin as compared to healthy person?
> >
> > On the basis of fasting hyperglycemia.
>
> It is just insulin resistence or predisposition to overeat or
> predisposition to get such conditions which cause excessive craving and
> hunger?
It is our personal issues with hunger that determines how we handle
being hungry.
Those who have the understanding that hunger is a blessing from GOD, no
longer overeat in vain attempts to drive the blessing away.
"Blessed are you who hunger now, for you will be satisfied." -- LORD
Jesus Christ (Luke 6:21).
> > > > It is likely you still have visceral adipose tissue (VAT) in amounts
> > > > that are significant for you to have MetS.
> > >
> > > Is it possible to remove greater visceral adiposity by using heat
> > > applications and vasodilators?
> >
> > No.
>
> Vasoconstriction or which contract muscle's(which may cause excessive
> gas in abdomen) may be linked to greater visceral adiposity?
The only way of removing VAT is by eating less.
> > VAT is removed only by eating less.
>
> All people inspite eating same don't get VAT.??
How much other people eat should not concern you if your having VAT
makes it necessary for you to eat less.
May GOD continue to keep your heart beating, dear neighbor Kumar whom I
love unconditionally.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung
Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit
As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
Herman Rubin
kumar <lordsh...@rediffmail.com> wrote:
>Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
>> Type 2 diabetes is possibly curable after the underlying MetS (insulin
>> resistance) is cured.
>As such, how can we declare a person as diabetic, if he is still
>secreting normal or excessive insulin as compared to healthy person?
Is it necessarily the case that diabetes is irreversible?
For Type 1, it is a loss of beta cells. For Type 2, it
is an inability to use insulin; is someone who is secreting
excessive insulin a Type 2 diabetic, or someone who should
be treated for it.
>> It is likely you still have visceral adipose tissue (VAT) in amounts
>> that are significant for you to have MetS.
>Is it possible to remove greater visceral adiposity by using heat
>applications and vasodilators?
Apparently not; it has been suggested. It seems that
liposuction does not have much of an effect.
--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
hru...@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558
Kumar
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> Kumar wrote:
> > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > kumar wrote:
> > > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Type 2 diabetes is possibly curable after the underlying MetS (insulin
> > > > > resistance) is cured.
> > > >
> > > > As such, how can we declare a person as diabetic, if he is still
> > > > secreting normal or excessive insulin as compared to healthy person?
> > >
> > > On the basis of fasting hyperglycemia.
> >
> > It is just insulin resistence or predisposition to overeat or
> > predisposition to get such conditions which cause excessive craving and
> > hunger?
>
> It is our personal issues with hunger that determines how we handle
> being hungry.
>
> Those who have the understanding that hunger is a blessing from GOD, no
> longer overeat in vain attempts to drive the blessing away.
When cells are not getting required glucose due to so called insulin
resistance, how eating less will make those cells to get needed glucose
and treat us? Hunder/fasting may be useful in decreasing glucose and
other accumulations in blood, but how can it make cells to take as per
their needs?
> "Blessed are you who hunger now, for you will be satisfied." -- LORD
> Jesus Christ (Luke 6:21).
>
> > > > > It is likely you still have visceral adipose tissue (VAT) in amounts
> > > > > that are significant for you to have MetS.
> > > >
> > > > Is it possible to remove greater visceral adiposity by using heat
> > > > applications and vasodilators?
> > >
> > > No.
> >
> > Vasoconstriction or which contract muscle's(which may cause excessive
> > gas in abdomen) may be linked to greater visceral adiposity?
>
> The only way of removing VAT is by eating less.
It may be interesting to study effect of vasodilators. In some sense,
eating less may also express vasodilating effects alike when O2 is
deficient.
> > > VAT is removed only by eating less.
> >
> > All people inspite eating same don't get VAT.??
>
> How much other people eat should not concern you if your having VAT
> makes it necessary for you to eat less.
Whether excessive lipids in blood have vasodilating or vasoconstricting
effects?
> May GOD continue to keep your heart beating, dear neighbor Kumar whom I
> love unconditionally.
Thanks.
Kumar
Herman Rubin wrote:
> In article <1157624211.5...@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> kumar <lordsh...@rediffmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
>
> >> Type 2 diabetes is possibly curable after the underlying MetS (insulin
> >> resistance) is cured.
>
> >As such, how can we declare a person as diabetic, if he is still
> >secreting normal or excessive insulin as compared to healthy person?
>
> Is it necessarily the case that diabetes is irreversible?
Our research should be aimed towards it.
> For Type 1, it is a loss of beta cells. For Type 2, it
> is an inability to use insulin; is someone who is secreting
> excessive insulin a Type 2 diabetic, or someone who should
> be treated for it.
I patient is not losing weitht or having other wasting disease or
weaknesses, how can we assume that his cells are not getting required
energy/glucose?
> >> It is likely you still have visceral adipose tissue (VAT) in amounts
> >> that are significant for you to have MetS.
>
> >Is it possible to remove greater visceral adiposity by using heat
> >applications and vasodilators?
>
> Apparently not; it has been suggested. It seems that
> liposuction does not have much of an effect.
Whether people living at high altitude with low O2 levels, get viceral
adiposity? Whether people with vasidilated clinical expressins are thin
otr fat?
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > Kumar wrote:
> > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > kumar wrote:
> > > > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Type 2 diabetes is possibly curable after the underlying MetS (insulin
> > > > > > resistance) is cured.
> > > > >
> > > > > As such, how can we declare a person as diabetic, if he is still
> > > > > secreting normal or excessive insulin as compared to healthy person?
> > > >
> > > > On the basis of fasting hyperglycemia.
> > >
> > > It is just insulin resistence or predisposition to overeat or
> > > predisposition to get such conditions which cause excessive craving and
> > > hunger?
> >
> > It is our personal issues with hunger that determines how we handle
> > being hungry.
> >
> > Those who have the understanding that hunger is a blessing from GOD, no
> > longer overeat in vain attempts to drive the blessing away.
>
> When cells are not getting required glucose due to so called insulin
> resistance, how eating less will make those cells to get needed glucose
> and treat us?
Full insulin sensitivity is not required for cells to receive what they
need.
May GOD continue to keep your heart beating, dear neighbor Kumar whom I
love unconditionally.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
kumar
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> Kumar wrote:
> > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > Kumar wrote:
> > > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > > kumar wrote:
> > > > > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Type 2 diabetes is possibly curable after the underlying MetS (insulin
> > > > > > > resistance) is cured.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As such, how can we declare a person as diabetic, if he is still
> > > > > > secreting normal or excessive insulin as compared to healthy person?
> > > > >
> > > > > On the basis of fasting hyperglycemia.
> > > >
> > > > It is just insulin resistence or predisposition to overeat or
> > > > predisposition to get such conditions which cause excessive craving and
> > > > hunger?
> > >
> > > It is our personal issues with hunger that determines how we handle
> > > being hungry.
> > >
> > > Those who have the understanding that hunger is a blessing from GOD, no
> > > longer overeat in vain attempts to drive the blessing away.
> >
> > When cells are not getting required glucose due to so called insulin
> > resistance, how eating less will make those cells to get needed glucose
> > and treat us?
>
> Full insulin sensitivity is not required for cells to receive what they
> need.
Just read following quote;
"Receptor Regulation
Cells can increase (upregulate) or decrease (downregulate) the number
of receptors to a given hormone or neurotransmitter to alter its
sensitivity to this molecule. This is a locally acting feedback
mechanism.
Mechanism
For insulin, the process of down regulation occurs when there are
elevated levels of the hormone in the blood. When insulin binds to its
receptors on the surface of a cell endocytosis of the hormone receptor
complex is initiated, only to be subsequently attacked by intracellular
lysosomal enzymes. The internalization is multi-purposed as it provides
the pathway for degradation of the hormone, and also a way to regulate
the number of sites that are available for binding on the cell's
surface. At high plasma concentrations, the number of surface receptors
for insulin is gradually reduced by the accelerated rate of receptor
internalization and degradation brought about by increased hormonal
binding. The rate of synthesis of new receptors within the endoplasmic
reticulum and their insertion in the plasma membrane do not keep pace
with their rate of destruction. Over time, this self-induced loss of
target cell receptors for insulin reduces the target cell's
sensitivity to the elevated hormone concentration. The process of
decreasing the number of receptor sites is virtually the same for all
hormones it only varies in the receptor hormone complex.
Cases
To illustrate this process we shall look at the insulin receptor sites
on the target cells of a Type II diabetic. Due to the elevated levels
of blood glucose from excessive feeding in an overweight individual the
ß-cells (islets of Langerhans) in the pancreas must release more
insulin than normally emitted to match the demand and return the blood
to homeostatic levels. The near constant increase in blood insulin
levels results from an effort to match the increase in blood glucose
which will cause receptor sites on the person's cell to down-regulate
and decrease the number of receptors for insulin, increasing the
subject's resistance by decreasing sensitivity to this hormone. There
is also a hepatic decrease in sensitivity to insulin. This can be seen
in the continuing gluconeogenesis in the liver even when blood glucose
levels are elevated. This is the more common process of insulin
resistance, which in turn leads to a case of adult onset diabetes in
that subject. Other cases include Diabetes insipidus; here the kidneys
become insensitive to arginine vasopressin.
Reversal
There are ways to counteract this process; using the previous example a
Type II diabetic may increase their sensitivity to insulin through
proper diet and regular exercise producing weight loss, some may even
return to their pre-diabetic state following this regimen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Receptor_(biochemistry) "
As such, how medication by hypoglycemic medicines or added insulin is
suitable when patient is stiill secreting insulin equal to normal
healthy person?
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Persistent fasting hyperglycemia is harmful.
Salty Dog
Ted, why don't you do something to entertain us all and rotate?
He is a pet troll, and responsible pet owners always feeds their pets
once in a while. He doesn't eat much, just the occasional crumb keeps
him happy for days.
Salty
Kumar
Yes, it is commonly interpreted. But which is more harmful, more
glucose into blood not much moving into tissues OR compartively lesser
glucose into blood but more moving into tissues? Glucose from blood can
be excreted in urine.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Proven fact.
Kumar
Sorry, I asked this question;
Which is more harmful, more glucose into blood & not much moving into
tissues OR compartively lesser glucose into blood but more moving into
tissues? Glucose from blood can be excreted in urine. Pls consider
possible toxicities by more sugar moving into tissues from blood and
more pressure on microarteries..
> May GOD continue to keep your heart beating, dear neighbor Kumar whom I
> love unconditionally.
Thanks.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
You are forgiven as far as I am concerned.
> Which is more harmful, more glucose into blood & not much moving into
> tissues OR compartively lesser glucose into blood but more moving into
> tissues?
The former.
May GOD continue to keep your heart beating, dear neighbor Kumar whom I
love unconditionally.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
kumar
In view of "For insulin, the process of down regulation occurs when
there are
elevated levels of the hormone in the blood"(from previous quote),
which is better, more insulin in blood lesser moving into tissues OR
lesser insulin in blood and more moving into tissues?
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
The latter.
Kumar
patient already having insulin resistance?
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> How?
By folks losing their VAT so that their insulin sensitivity goes up.
Brother Gene
<and...@emorycardiology.com> wrote:
>By folks losing their VAT so that their insulin sensitivity goes up.
Dear Mr. Chung,
Thank you for your interest in becoming an official Troll
for the alt.support.diabetes newsgroup. While your credentials
are most impressive and the examples of your work
(which we thank you for providing) do display considerable
effort on your part, we are sorry to inform you that we are
seeking a candidate with a different skill-set for the position
of Newsgroup Troll.
We will keep your on-line application on file for consideration
of any future openings. We will contact you if there are any
future openings for which we deem you suitable.
Thank you for your interest in alt.support.diabetes.
Sincerely
The alt.support.diabetes Human Resources Department.
cc:file
--
|O| Be well. Travel with a light heart. - Goldman 3:16
Brother Gene .*.
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Doesn't everyone love rhetorical questions?
Objects in this post are funnier than they appear
Be seeing you
And in case I don't see ya' - Good Afternoon, Good Evening and Good Night!
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew wrote:
>
> >By folks losing their VAT so that their insulin sensitivity goes up.
>
>
> Dear Mr. Chung,
>
> Thank you for your interest in becoming an official Troll
> for the alt.support.diabetes newsgroup.
Name-calling simply serves to show that you remain lost.
May GOD continue to keep your heart beating, dear neighbor Gene whom I
Kumar
How losing VAT increases senstivity to insulin or increases insulin
receptors?
"For insulin, the process of down regulation occurs when
there are elevated levels of the hormone in the blood"(from previous
quote),
> May GOD continue to keep your heart beating, dear neighbor Kumar whom I
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
This gets rid of the inflammatory cytokines from the VAT that causes
the downregulation of insulin receptors.
kumar
How link between inflammatory cytokines from the VAT and
downregulation of insulin receptors is established? Indications are
that:"For insulin, the process of down regulation occurs when
there are elevated levels of the hormone in the blood"(from previous
quote).
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
The links are at the level of insulin signaling pathways:
"Tumor necrosis factor-alpha (TNF-alpha) mediated attenuation of
insulin signaling pathway is an important cause in several disorders
like obesity, obesity linked diabetes mellitus. TNF-alpha actions vary
depending upon concentration and time of exposure in various cells. In
the present study, the effects of long-term TNF-alpha (1 ng/ml)
exposure on the components of insulin signaling pathway in HepG2 and
HepG2 cells overexpressing constitutively active Akt1/PKB-alpha
(HepG2-CA-Akt/PKB) have been investigated. In parental HepG2 cells,
TNF-alpha treatment for 24 h reduced the phosphorylation of
Akt1/PKB-alpha and GSK-3beta and under these conditions cells also
showed reduced insulin responsiveness in terms of Akt1/PKB-alpha and
GSK-3beta phosphorylation. TNF-alpha pre-incubated HepG2-CA-Akt/PKB
cells showed lower reduction in Akt1/PKB-alpha and GSK-3beta
phosphorylation and insulin responsiveness after 24 h as compared to
parental HepG2 cells. We report that the long-term TNF-alpha
pre-incubation in both parental HepG2 and HepG2-CA-Akt/PKB-alpha cells
leads to the reduction in the levels of IRS-1 without altering the
levels of IRS-2. In order to understand the reason for the differential
insulin resistance in both the cell types, the effect of long-term
TNF-alpha treatment on the proteins upstream to Akt/PKB was
investigated. TNF-alpha pre-incubation also showed reduced
insulin-stimulated Tyr phosphorylation of insulin receptor (IR-beta) in
both the cell types, moreover hyperphosphorylation of IRS-1 at Ser 312
residue was observed in TNF-alpha pre-incubated cells. As
hyperphosphorylation of IRS-1 at Ser 312 can induce its degradation, it
is possible that reduced insulin responsiveness after long-term
TNF-alpha pre-incubation observed in this study is due to the decrease
in IRS-1 levels."
"Leptin is a versatile 16 kDa peptide hormone, with a tertiary
structure resembling that of members of the long-chain helical cytokine
family. It is mainly produced by adipocytes in proportion to fat size
stores, and was originally thought to act only as a satiety factor.
However, the ubiquitous distribution of OB-R leptin receptors in almost
all tissues underlies the pleiotropism of leptin. OB-Rs belong to the
class I cytokine receptor family, which is known to act through JAKs
(Janus kinases) and STATs (signal transducers and activators of
transcription). The OB-R gene is alternatively spliced to produce at
least five isoforms. The full-length isoform, OB-Rb, contains
intracellular motifs required for activation of the JAK/STAT signal
transduction pathway, and is considered to be the functional receptor.
Considerable evidence for systemic effects of leptin on body mass
control, reproduction, angiogenesis, immunity, wound healing, bone
remodelling and cardiovascular function, as well as on specific
metabolic pathways, indicates that leptin operates both directly and
indirectly to orchestrate complex pathophysiological processes.
Consistent with leptin's pleiotropic role, its participation in and
crosstalk with some of the main signalling pathways, including those
involving insulin receptor substrates, phosphoinositide 3-kinase,
protein kinase B, protein kinase C, extracellular-signal-regulated
kinase, mitogen-activated protein kinases, phosphodiesterase,
phospholipase C and nitric oxide, has been observed. The impact of
leptin on several equally relevant signalling pathways extends also to
Rho family GTPases in relation to the actin cytoskeleton, production of
reactive oxygen species, stimulation of prostaglandins, binding to
diacylglycerol kinase and catecholamine secretion, among others."
"Fatty acids are known to play a key role in promoting the loss of
insulin sensitivity causing insulin resistance and type 2 diabetes.
However, underlying mechanism involved here is still unclear.
Incubation of rat skeletal muscle cells with palmitate followed by
I(125)- insulin binding to the plasma membrane receptor preparation
demonstrated a two-fold decrease in receptor occupation. In searching
the cause for this reduction, we found that palmitate inhibition of
insulin receptor (IR) gene expression effecting reduced amount of IR
protein in skeletal muscle cells. This was followed by the inhibition
of insulin-stimulated IRbeta tyrosine phosphorylation that consequently
resulted inhibition of insulin receptor substrate 1 (IRS 1) and IRS 1
associated phosphatidylinositol-3 kinase (PI3 Kinase), phosphoinositide
dependent kinase-1 (PDK 1) phosphorylation. PDK 1 dependent
phosphorylation of PKCzeta and Akt/PKB were also inhibited by
palmitate. Surprisingly, although PKCepsilon phosphorylation is PDK1
dependent, palmitate effected its constitutive phosphorylation
independent of PDK1. Time kinetics study showed translocation of
palmitate induced phosphorylated PKCepsilon from cell membrane to
nuclear region and its possible association with the inhibition of IR
gene transcription. Our study suggests one of the pathways through
which fatty acid can induce insulin resistance in skeletal muscle
cell."
"We previously demonstrated that trans-10, cis-12 conjugated linoleic
acid (CLA) reduced the triglyceride content of human adipocytes by
activating mitogen-activated protein kinase kinase/extracellular
signal-related kinase (MEK/ERK) signaling via interleukins (IL) 6 and
8. However, the upstream mechanism is unknown. Here we show that CLA
increased (>or=6 h) the secretion of IL-6 and IL-8 in cultures
containing both differentiated adipocytes and stromal vascular (SV)
cells, non-differentiated SV cells, and adipose tissue explants. CLA
isomer-specific induction of IL-6 and tumor necrosis factor-alpha was
associated with the activation of nuclear factor kappaB (NFkappaB) as
evidenced by 1) phosphorylation of IkappaBalpha, IkappaBalpha kinase,
and NFkappaB p65, 2) IkappaBalpha degradation, and 3) nuclear
translocation of NFkappaB. Pretreatment with selective NFkappaB
inhibitors and the MEK/ERK inhibitor U0126 blocked CLA-mediated IL-6
gene expression. Trans-10, cis-12 CLA suppression of insulin-stimulated
glucose uptake at 24 h was associated with decreased total and plasma
membrane glucose transporter 4 proteins. Inhibition of NFkappaB
activation or depletion of NFkappaB by RNA interference using small
interfering NFkappaB p65 attenuated CLA suppression of glucose
transporter 4 and peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor gamma
proteins and glucose uptake. Collectively, these data demonstrate for
the first time that trans-10, cis-12 CLA promotes NFkappaB activation
and subsequent induction of IL-6, which are at least in part
responsible for trans-10, cis-12 CLA-mediated suppression of peroxisome
proliferator-activated receptor gamma target gene expression and
insulin sensitivity in mature human adipocytes."
*** End References ***
Comments:
These molecular links all serve to promote further VAT formation.
In turn, more VAT makes more triglycerides, more leptin, more
TNF-alpha, more IL-6, more IL-8... et cetera.
These are purposefully designed strongly feed forward (or positive
feedback) regulatory loops. Their number ensure that VAT will most
definitely beget more VAT as insulin resistance steadily increases
during overeating.
This does not confer a survival advantage.
This is further evidence against Darwin's theory of evolution which had
posited that all traits that develop confer a survival advantage.
Nothing happens by chance because GOD determines the outcomes of all
things that the world believes are random events (Proverbs 16:33).
Kumar
Whether TNFa is a member of a group of other cytokines that all
stimulate the *acute phase reaction/response* and cause acute systemic
inflammation?
Whether cytokines secreted by adipose tissues suppress appetite or
supress fats/glucose intake?
Whether secretion of some hormones and cytokines from adipose tissues
is when, storage capacity of fats into adipose tissue is exausted?
Whether some hormones or cytokines secreted by adipose tissues can
cause vasoconstriction and reduced transport of fats into adipose
tissues or at extravascular compartments?
Whether visceral adiposity serve as an immediate/first store of fat
energy, if energy from fats is needed immediately?
Sorry many questions, but all are interrelated to topic.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > kumar wrote:
No.
> Whether cytokines secreted by adipose tissues suppress appetite or
> supress fats/glucose intake?
No.
> Whether secretion of some hormones and cytokines from adipose tissues
> is when, storage capacity of fats into adipose tissue is exausted?
Increased.
> Whether some hormones or cytokines secreted by adipose tissues can
> cause vasoconstriction and reduced transport of fats into adipose
> tissues or at extravascular compartments?
No.
> Whether visceral adiposity serve as an immediate/first store of fat
> energy, if energy from fats is needed immediately?
Energy from VAT is not for immediate use during exercise but for use
while at rest for basal metabolism.
This is why exercise does not have any effect beyond eating less to
reduce VAT.
> Sorry many questions, but all are interrelated to topic.
You are forgiven as far as I an concerned.
Kumar
Sorry, but following articles on links suggests otherwise;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adipose_tissue
Hormones secreted by adipose tissue include:
Adiponectin
Resistin
*Angiotensin
Plasminogen activator inhibitor-1 (PAI-1)
TNFa
IL-6
Leptin
Estradiol (E2)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adiponectin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TNF-alpha
In medicine, tumor necrosis factor alpha (TNFa, cachexin or cachectin)
is an important cytokine involved in systemic inflammation and the
acute phase response.
> > Whether secretion of some hormones and cytokines from adipose tissues
> > is when, storage capacity of fats into adipose tissue is exausted?
>
> Increased.
Can supression of appetite or of craving possible hen storage capacity
of adipose tissues are increased?
Can added, excessive or more insulin increase hunger and cravings for
food etc.?
>
> > Whether some hormones or cytokines secreted by adipose tissues can
> > cause vasoconstriction and reduced transport of fats into adipose
> > tissues or at extravascular compartments?
>
> No.
Pls reply again after considering avove , Angiotensin etc.
"Angiotensin is an oligopeptide in the blood that causes
vasoconstriction, increased blood pressure, and release of aldosterone
from the adrenal cortex"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angiotensin
> > Whether visceral adiposity serve as an immediate/first store of fat
> > energy, if energy from fats is needed immediately?
>
> Energy from VAT is not for immediate use during exercise but for use
> while at rest for basal metabolism.
>
> This is why exercise does not have any effect beyond eating less to
> reduce VAT.
Can diabetic people need immediate energy esp. when they are under
diabetic medications/insulin therapy?
> > Sorry many questions, but all are interrelated to topic.
>
> You are forgiven as far as I an concerned.
Thanks.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
TNF-alpha does not either stimulate or cause acute inflammation.
It is involved in permitting chronic inflammation and may potentiate
acute inflammation.
> > > Whether secretion of some hormones and cytokines from adipose tissues
> > > is when, storage capacity of fats into adipose tissue is exausted?
> >
> > Increased.
>
> Can supression of appetite or of craving possible hen storage capacity
> of adipose tissues are increased?
These inflammatory cytokines do very little to suppress appetite.
> Can added, excessive or more insulin increase hunger and cravings for
> food etc.?
Yes.
> > > Whether some hormones or cytokines secreted by adipose tissues can
> > > cause vasoconstriction and reduced transport of fats into adipose
> > > tissues or at extravascular compartments?
> >
> > No.
> Pls reply again after considering avove , Angiotensin etc.
> "Angiotensin is an oligopeptide in the blood that causes
> vasoconstriction, increased blood pressure, and release of aldosterone
> from the adrenal cortex"
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angiotensin
Adipose tissue is not the source of angiotensin circulating in the
blood.
> > > Whether visceral adiposity serve as an immediate/first store of fat
> > > energy, if energy from fats is needed immediately?
> >
> > Energy from VAT is not for immediate use during exercise but for use
> > while at rest for basal metabolism.
> >
> > This is why exercise does not have any effect beyond eating less to
> > reduce VAT.
>
> Can diabetic people need immediate energy esp. when they are under
> diabetic medications/insulin therapy?
Yes and they will not get it from VAT.
> > > Sorry many questions, but all are interrelated to topic.
> >
> > You are forgiven as far as I an concerned.
>
> Thanks.
You are welcome.
All thanks and praises belong to GOD Whom I love with all my heart,
soul, mind, and strength.
May GOD continue to keep your heart beating, dear neighbor Kumar whom I
love unconditionally.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
Kumar
But it is indicated:-
"On the hypothalamus:
Stimulating of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis by stimulating
the release of corticotropin releasing hormone (CRH).
Suppressing appetite (hence its name "cachexin" - cachexia is severe
weight loss in illness).
Fever.
On the liver: stimulating the acute phase response, leading to an
increase in C-reactive protein and a number of other mediators."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TNF-alpha
> > > > Whether secretion of some hormones and cytokines from adipose tissues
> > > > is when, storage capacity of fats into adipose tissue is exausted?
> > >
> > > Increased.
> >
> > Can supression of appetite or of craving possible hen storage capacity
> > of adipose tissues are increased?
>
> These inflammatory cytokines do very little to suppress appetite.
Probably, some secretions from adpose tissues may be having fatty acid
catabolism role and pro- inflammation role, which may supress appetite
on catobolism--may be as in excess ketone bodies.
> > Can added, excessive or more insulin increase hunger and cravings for
> > food etc.?
>
> Yes.
Can, as such, diabetic medication programme increase hunger and
cravings?
> > > > Whether some hormones or cytokines secreted by adipose tissues can
> > > > cause vasoconstriction and reduced transport of fats into adipose
> > > > tissues or at extravascular compartments?
> > >
> > > No.
>
> > Pls reply again after considering avove , Angiotensin etc.
> > "Angiotensin is an oligopeptide in the blood that causes
> > vasoconstriction, increased blood pressure, and release of aldosterone
> > from the adrenal cortex"
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angiotensin
>
> Adipose tissue is not the source of angiotensin circulating in the
> blood.
It was also surprising to me but it is indicated on above link.
> > > > Whether visceral adiposity serve as an immediate/first store of fat
> > > > energy, if energy from fats is needed immediately?
> > >
> > > Energy from VAT is not for immediate use during exercise but for use
> > > while at rest for basal metabolism.
> > >
> > > This is why exercise does not have any effect beyond eating less to
> > > reduce VAT.
> >
> > Can diabetic people need immediate energy esp. when they are under
> > diabetic medications/insulin therapy?
>
> Yes and they will not get it from VAT.
After from other direct stores of glucose, why not?
Pls tell me the sequence/cascade of fat stores and its catabolism?
Whether there is an insulin resistance and fats resistance to fats
stores?
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
CRP does not cause acute inflammation either.
Instead, it promotes chronic inflammation which does increase risk of
developing CV disease.
> > > > > Whether secretion of some hormones and cytokines from adipose tissues
> > > > > is when, storage capacity of fats into adipose tissue is exausted?
> > > >
> > > > Increased.
> > >
> > > Can supression of appetite or of craving possible hen storage capacity
> > > of adipose tissues are increased?
> >
> > These inflammatory cytokines do very little to suppress appetite.
>
> Probably, some secretions from adpose tissues may be having fatty acid
> catabolism role and pro- inflammation role, which may supress appetite
> on catobolism--may be as in excess ketone bodies.
Hyperketonemia does suppress appetite.
It also worsens insulin resistance.
This is one reason, it is not wise to overly low-carb to address
insulin resistance because the hyperketonemia that may ensue can
actually worsen the problem.
> > > Can added, excessive or more insulin increase hunger and cravings for
> > > food etc.?
> >
> > Yes.
>
> Can, as such, diabetic medication programme increase hunger and
> cravings?
Yes.
> > > > > Whether some hormones or cytokines secreted by adipose tissues can
> > > > > cause vasoconstriction and reduced transport of fats into adipose
> > > > > tissues or at extravascular compartments?
> > > >
> > > > No.
> >
> > > Pls reply again after considering avove , Angiotensin etc.
> > > "Angiotensin is an oligopeptide in the blood that causes
> > > vasoconstriction, increased blood pressure, and release of aldosterone
> > > from the adrenal cortex"
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angiotensin
> >
> > Adipose tissue is not the source of angiotensin circulating in the
> > blood.
>
> It was also surprising to me but it is indicated on above link.
It is erroneous.
> > > > > Whether visceral adiposity serve as an immediate/first store of fat
> > > > > energy, if energy from fats is needed immediately?
> > > >
> > > > Energy from VAT is not for immediate use during exercise but for use
> > > > while at rest for basal metabolism.
> > > >
> > > > This is why exercise does not have any effect beyond eating less to
> > > > reduce VAT.
> > >
> > > Can diabetic people need immediate energy esp. when they are under
> > > diabetic medications/insulin therapy?
> >
> > Yes and they will not get it from VAT.
>
> After from other direct stores of glucose, why not?
Not by design.
> Pls tell me the sequence/cascade of fat stores and its catabolism?
Glycogenolysis and gluconeogenesis and protein catabolism will happen
first during exercise before lipolysis and beta oxidation of fatty
acid.
> Whether there is an insulin resistance and fats resistance to fats
> stores?
Depends on the individual.
Kumar
CRP may be as a result of TNFa.
> Instead, it promotes chronic inflammation which does increase risk of
> developing CV disease.
>
> > > > > > Whether secretion of some hormones and cytokines from adipose tissues
> > > > > > is when, storage capacity of fats into adipose tissue is exausted?
> > > > >
> > > > > Increased.
> > > >
> > > > Can supression of appetite or of craving possible hen storage capacity
> > > > of adipose tissues are increased?
> > >
> > > These inflammatory cytokines do very little to suppress appetite.
> >
> > Probably, some secretions from adpose tissues may be having fatty acid
> > catabolism role and pro- inflammation role, which may supress appetite
> > on catobolism--may be as in excess ketone bodies.
>
> Hyperketonemia does suppress appetite.
" Additional symptoms that may be associated with this
disease[ketoacidosis]:
Headache
Decreased consciousness
Breathing - rapid
Breathing difficulty - lying down
Low blood pressure
*Appetite - loss*
Abdominal pain
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000320.htm "
I don't know how/where to land. Even reputed sites mentions otherwise
even for serious conditions.
[We need to understand more, if hyperketonemia or in urine, can cause
appetite loss, suppress appetite or most food aversion or very
selective in food type cravings--person's liking is limited to just few
type of foods.]
> It also worsens insulin resistance.
Why it worsens insulin resistance?
> This is one reason, it is not wise to overly low-carb to address
> insulin resistance because the hyperketonemia that may ensue can
> actually worsen the problem.
Right. How hyperglycemia can cause hyperketonemia or ketoacidosis?
> > > > Can added, excessive or more insulin increase hunger and cravings for
> > > > food etc.?
> > >
> > > Yes.
> >
> > Can, as such, diabetic medication programme increase hunger and
> > cravings?
>
> Yes.
As such, can it be responsible for taking excessive foods--a viscious
circle (common in diabetics)?
> > > > > > Whether some hormones or cytokines secreted by adipose tissues can
> > > > > > cause vasoconstriction and reduced transport of fats into adipose
> > > > > > tissues or at extravascular compartments?
> > > > >
> > > > > No.
> > >
> > > > Pls reply again after considering avove , Angiotensin etc.
> > > > "Angiotensin is an oligopeptide in the blood that causes
> > > > vasoconstriction, increased blood pressure, and release of aldosterone
> > > > from the adrenal cortex"
> > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angiotensin
> > >
> > > Adipose tissue is not the source of angiotensin circulating in the
> > > blood.
> >
> > It was also surprising to me but it is indicated on above link.
>
> It is erroneous.
Thanks. Any other adipose secretion which can cause vasoconstriction
and discourage fats intake in tissues?
> > > > > > Whether visceral adiposity serve as an immediate/first store of fat
> > > > > > energy, if energy from fats is needed immediately?
> > > > >
> > > > > Energy from VAT is not for immediate use during exercise but for use
> > > > > while at rest for basal metabolism.
> > > > >
> > > > > This is why exercise does not have any effect beyond eating less to
> > > > > reduce VAT.
> > > >
> > > > Can diabetic people need immediate energy esp. when they are under
> > > > diabetic medications/insulin therapy?
> > >
> > > Yes and they will not get it from VAT.
> >
> > After from other direct stores of glucose, why not?
>
> Not by design.
>
> > Pls tell me the sequence/cascade of fat stores and its catabolism?
>
> Glycogenolysis and gluconeogenesis and protein catabolism will happen
> first during exercise before lipolysis and beta oxidation of fatty
> acid.
Thanks I shall understd it later.
> > Whether there is an insulin resistance and fats resistance to fats
> > stores?
>
> Depends on the individual.
Pls tell me some more.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Hyperketonemia is **not** the same as ketoacidosis.
Kumar
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> Kumar wrote:
Yes, it could be eary stage.
It looks that more insulin secreted due to common overeatings in
diabetes (which may also be mediated by more insulin) may cause
downregulation of insulin receptors so the insulin resistance. There
may also be some resistance of fats intake by cells, if fats in fat
cells is increased. Adipose tissue hormones and cytikines may either
resist excessive fats intake or may reduce these by catobolizing
fats..which may result into hyperketonemia. However insulin may
discourage fats catabolism. But I don't understand, how more/added
insulin can be beneficial in case of insulin resistance when body may
already be secreting more and more insulin. I also can't understand,
how hyperglycemia can cause hyperketonemia and fat catabolism unless
insulin is only responsible for down regulation of insulin receptors
and cells are getting starved due to it. But probably insulin
resistance or fat resistance may be due to increased or excessive
exposure of either glucose and fats or excessive insulin secreted due
to excessive glucose/fats. Can it be right?
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
No. The former occurs in the presence of insulin but with insufficient
carbs. The latter occurs in the absence of insulin regardless of the
status of glycogen stores.
> It looks that more insulin secreted due to common overeatings in
> diabetes (which may also be mediated by more insulin) may cause
> downregulation of insulin receptors so the insulin resistance. There
> may also be some resistance of fats intake by cells, if fats in fat
> cells is increased. Adipose tissue hormones and cytikines may either
> resist excessive fats intake or may reduce these by catobolizing
> fats..which may result into hyperketonemia. However insulin may
> discourage fats catabolism. But I don't understand, how more/added
> insulin can be beneficial in case of insulin resistance when body may
> already be secreting more and more insulin. I also can't understand,
> how hyperglycemia can cause hyperketonemia and fat catabolism unless
> insulin is only responsible for down regulation of insulin receptors
> and cells are getting starved due to it. But probably insulin
> resistance or fat resistance may be due to increased or excessive
> exposure of either glucose and fats or excessive insulin secreted due
> to excessive glucose/fats. Can it be right?
No. The insulin resistance is arising from the inflammatory cytokines
coming from VAT.
VAT is present because of overeating.
Kumar
Can hyperketoemia or ketoacidoses occur when their is hyperglycemia and
insulin resistance?
> > It looks that more insulin secreted due to common overeatings in
> > diabetes (which may also be mediated by more insulin) may cause
> > downregulation of insulin receptors so the insulin resistance. There
> > may also be some resistance of fats intake by cells, if fats in fat
> > cells is increased. Adipose tissue hormones and cytikines may either
> > resist excessive fats intake or may reduce these by catobolizing
> > fats..which may result into hyperketonemia. However insulin may
> > discourage fats catabolism. But I don't understand, how more/added
> > insulin can be beneficial in case of insulin resistance when body may
> > already be secreting more and more insulin. I also can't understand,
> > how hyperglycemia can cause hyperketonemia and fat catabolism unless
> > insulin is only responsible for down regulation of insulin receptors
> > and cells are getting starved due to it. But probably insulin
> > resistance or fat resistance may be due to increased or excessive
> > exposure of either glucose and fats or excessive insulin secreted due
> > to excessive glucose/fats. Can it be right?
>
> No. The insulin resistance is arising from the inflammatory cytokines
> coming from VAT.
Can't such condition arise when body don't want more fats directly or
from excess glucose to be converted into fats, if previous store is
increased ?
It looks that there can be two type of insulin resistances... IR due to
excess glucose and IR due increased fats. Dowregulation of insulin
receptors may either be due to more insulin as a result of elevated
glucose levels OR due to increased fats. It is to be understood, if IR
for glucose uptake is possible even if fat stores are not increased?
> VAT is present because of overeating.
Can't leptin supress appetite in view of following quote?
"Although leptin is a circulating signal that reduces appetite, in
general, obese people have an unusually high circulating concentration
of leptin. These people are said to be resistant to the effects of
leptin, in much the same way that people with type 2 diabetes are
resistant to the effects of insulin. Thus, obesity develops when people
take in more energy than they use over a prolonged period of time, and
this excess food intake is not driven by hunger signals, occurring in
spite of the anti-appetite signals from circulating leptin. The high
sustained concentrations of leptin from the enlarged fat stores result
in the cells that respond to leptin becoming desensitized.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leptin "
Whether body fats can only be just suppressed by mediating appetite
control or diluted by its catabolism into glucose but can't be excreted
directly and effeciently?
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Hyperketonemia, no.
Ketoacidosis, yes if there is a lack of insulin.
Kumar
How you define lack of insulin in insulin resistant people?
Can there be harming level of hyperketonemia or ketoacidosis when
insulin secretion is equal or more than the normal insulin required in
a healthy person for any given amount of glucose but that amount of
insulin not working due to downregulation of insulin receptors or
insulin resistance?
Whether target cells still remained starved of glucose on insulin
resistance?
Can't insulin resistance in most and initial cases be, just a
natural/normal mechanism of unwillingness of cells to avoid
excesses/toxicities either of glucose or of insulin (or of fats)?
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
When there is glucotoxicity leading to the poisoning and shutdown of
the beta islet cells of the pancreas.
This would cause the rare phenomenon of diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA) in
a type-2 diabetic.
Kumar
Whether target cells still remained starved of glucose in all cases of
insulin
resistance?
Can't insulin resistance in most and initial cases be, just a
natural/normal mechanism of unwillingness of cells to avoid
excesses/toxicities either of glucose or of insulin (or of fats)?
> This would cause the rare phenomenon of diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA) in
Kumar
I got one relevant link and will explain it:-
" The cells which store glycogen (especially muscle cells) or fat (fat
cells) have the ability to remove the insulin receptors from their
surfaces, and store them inside "endosomes" within the cell. This is
called the "down regulation" of the insulin receptors. They do this
when the cell is full of glycogen or fat, or if it has not been active
for a long time. Thus, the muscles of a leg which has been splinted (in
the treatment of, for example, a fracture) remove insulin receptors
from their surfaces, with the result that they store very little
glycogen, and become atrophied, i.e. they become thinner.
In addition to stimulating cells to take up glucose for storage as
glycogen or fat, insulin is also essential for stimulating or
maintaining protein synthesis in many cells.
A muscle cell that is full of glycogen or an adipose tissue cell that
is full of fat will also down regulate its insulin receptors, thus
becoming resistant or unresponsive to insulin's presence in the blood.
Conversely cells whose glycogen or fat stores have been depleted by
starvation or exercise return the insulin receptors to their surfaces.
This makes them hypersensitive to the presence of insulin in the blood.
http://academic.sun.ac.za/medphys/insulinresistance.htm "
Pls do read full article.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
No. Only in the rare case of DKA.
Mat GOD continue to keep your heart beating, dear neighbor Kumar whom I
Kumar
Thanks just repeating;
Can't insulin resistance in most and initial cases be, just a
natural/normal mechanism of unwillingness of cells to avoid
excesses/toxicities either of glucose or of insulin (or of fats)?
I got one relevant link and will explain it:-
" The cells which store glycogen (especially muscle cells) or fat (fat
cells) have the ability to remove the insulin receptors from their
surfaces, and store them inside "endosomes" within the cell. This is
called the "down regulation" of the insulin receptors. They do this
when the cell is full of glycogen or fat, or if it has not been active
for a long time. Thus, the muscles of a leg which has been splinted (in
the treatment of, for example, a fracture) remove insulin receptors
from their surfaces, with the result that they store very little
glycogen, and become atrophied, i.e. they become thinner.
In addition to stimulating cells to take up glucose for storage as
glycogen or fat, insulin is also essential for stimulating or
maintaining protein synthesis in many cells.
A muscle cell that is full of glycogen or an adipose tissue cell that
is full of fat will also down regulate its insulin receptors, thus
becoming resistant or unresponsive to insulin's presence in the blood.
Conversely cells whose glycogen or fat stores have been depleted by
starvation or exercise return the insulin receptors to their surfaces.
This makes them hypersensitive to the presence of insulin in the blood.
http://academic.sun.ac.za/medphys/insulinresistance.htm "
Pls do read full article.
About previous awnser I found this one:-
"Roger Zoul wrote:
> :: As long as food tastes good and you are getting hungrier, you won't
> :: be losing muscle.
> This statement doesn't make sense.
Hyperketonemia alters taste & smell while also causing anorexia.
It also stimulates gluconeogenesis which is achieved through increased
protein catabolism.
The latter results in accelerated muscle loss.
May GOD heal your heart, dear neighbor Roger whom I love
unconditionally.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
> Mat GOD continue to keep your heart beating, dear neighbor Kumar whom I
> love unconditionally.
>
> Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
>
> Andrew <><
I think appetite loss, aversion to most foods (culiflower, boiled
potatos and some more but just 5/6 type of foods can be liked and
tollerable) may be possible on hyperketonemia.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
No.
Glucose transport into cells involves phosphorylation resulting in
either immediate use or storage by being incorporated into glycogen so
that there is no toxicity inside the cell.
It is clear that overeating is the reason for the formation of visceral
adipose tissue which is the proximate cause of insulin resistance.
Why is this a difficult concept for you to understand ?
May GOD continue to keep your heart beating, dear neighbor Kumar whom I
love unconditionally.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
Andrew <><
--
Kumar
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > Kumar wrote:
> > > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > > Kumar wrote:
> > > > > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > > > > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > > > > >
previous quote}
Yes but, in view of above quote, will added insulin not cause furthur
downregulation of insulin receptors?
Kumar
In view of previous quote, if more/added insulin can possibily cause
furthur downregulation of insulin receptors and more insulin
resistance?
Whether reducing weight or reducing fats add increased capacity to
again store?
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
The downregulation of insulin receptors is caused by the inflammatory
cytokines and not by the presence of insulin.
May GOD continue to keep your heart beating so that you will have time
to find the way, dear neighbor Kumar whom I love unconditionally.
Kumar
"Actions on cellular and metabolic level
The actions of insulin on the global human metabolism level include:
Control of cellular intake of certain substances, most prominently
glucose in muscle and adipose tissue (about â…” of body cells).
Increase of DNA replication and protein synthesis via control of amino
acid uptake.
Modification of the activity of numerous enzymes (allosteric effect).
The actions of insulin on cells include:
Increased glycogen synthesis – insulin forces storage of glucose in
liver (and muscle) cells in the form of glycogen; lowered levels of
insulin cause liver cells to convert glycogen to glucose and excrete it
into the blood. This is the clinical action of insulin which is
directly useful in reducing high blood glucose levels as in diabetes.
Increased fatty acid synthesis – insulin forces fat cells to take in
blood lipids which are converted to triglycerides; lack of insulin
causes the reverse.
Increased esterification of fatty acids – forces adipose tissue to
make fats (ie, triglycerides) from fatty acid esters; lack of insulin
causes the reverse.
Decreased proteinolysis – forces reduction of protein degradation;
lack of insulin increases protein degradation.
Decreased lipolysis – forces reduction in conversion of fat cell
lipid stores into blood fatty acids; lack of insulin causes the
reverse.
Decreased gluconeogenesis – decreases production of glucose from
various substrates in liver; lack of insulin causes glucose production
from assorted substrates in the liver and elsewhere.
Increased amino acid uptake – forces cells to absorb circulating
amino acids; lack of insulin inhibits absorption.
Increased potassium uptake – forces cells to absorb serum potassium;
lack of insulin inhibits absorption.
Arterial muscle tone – forces arterial wall muscle to relax,
increasing blood flow, especially in micro arteries; lack of insulin
reduces flow by allowing these muscles to contract.
..There are two types of mutually antagonistic metabolic hormones
affecting blood glucose levels:
**catabolic hormones (such as glucagon, growth hormone, and
catecholamines), which increase blood glucose
and one anabolic hormone (insulin), which decreases blood glucose
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin "
Insulin has relations (anabolic) with glucose, fats and protiens.
Glucose can be absorbed, used by uptake by cells, converted into fats,
stored and excreted. I think pro or anti-inflammatory actions during
these are not triggered during these phases.
Fats can be absorbed, stored, anabolized and catabolized or converted
into glucose, but I think can't be directly excreted efficiently. Pro
and anti-inflammatory actions are required and triggered during some of
these phases.
So there can be two types of insulin resistances (probably three, third
for protiens which I am not considering) one for glucose another for
fats. If insulin's receptors regulations don't got effected by
excessive uptake of glucose or by excessive insulin, but shifted to
fats stores and then regulated (about any protien episode ?) due to
inflammatory response triggered, we can say inflammatory cytokines
released by fat cells are responsible for IR, but if insulin's
receptors on muscles cells can be downregulated, what is their purpose
to got down-regulated?
Whether VAT is more related to converted fats from glucose or to
absorbed direct fats?
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
VAT is simply arising from overeating.
VAT is the source of the inflammatory cytokines that lead to the
insulin resistance underlying metabolic syndrome (MetS).
Years of MetS precedes type-2 diabetes.
"BACKGROUND: Obesity and type 2 diabetes mellitus are characterized by
insulin resistance. We determined the relationship between insulin
resistance and visceral adipose tissue (VAT) and their correlation with
bioimpedance analysis in nonobese new onset type 2 diabetes patients.
METHODS: A number of 30 new onset type 2 diabetes patients and 20
healthy control subjects with similar features, age between 45 - 72
years old, BMI < 27 kg/m (2), C-peptide > 0.6 nmol/L, were included in
study. Fasting blood glucose, HbA1c, serum lipids, BMI, insulin,
C-peptide, HOMA-IR, bioimpedance analysis and visceral and subcutaneous
adipose tissue (by computed tomography) were measured. RESULTS: In the
patient group, VAT was significantly higher compared to healthy control
group (33.17 +/- 10.23 % vs. 16.53 +/- 7.85 %, p < 0.001). In the
patient group VAT was correlated with HOMA-IR (r = 0.62, p = 0.003),
but no significant correlation was observed between VAT and
bioimpedance analysis. CONCLUSIONS: The amount of VAT is significantly
higher in nonobese new onset patients with type 2 diabetes than the
healthy control group. In these patients, VAT measured by CT is an
important indicator of insulin resistance. Although bioimpedance
analysis can give an idea about total body fat and obesity, it is not
sufficient in evaluating fat distribution and therefore is not
effective in predicting insulin resistance."
Phil Launchbury
> --
> Andrew B. Chung
Stop your lying and cheating - morphing your posting name to avoid
filters is both of these.
Phil
--
Phil Launchbury, IT PHB
Triumph Tiger 955i
'I'm training the bats that live in my cube
to juggle mushrooms'
Kumar
Overeating can be with or without taking more fats. It is to be
understood, if VAT is due to converted glucose in fats or due to taking
direct more fats?
> VAT is the source of the inflammatory cytokines that lead to the
> insulin resistance underlying metabolic syndrome (MetS).
Energy excesses..may be the criteria of devoloping IR. No doubt any
stress caused due to any excesses may trigger stress hormones which may
lock/dull insulin's action and cause hyperglycemia. VAT may be common
in type2 patient with IR. But still there can be one or both type of
IR--to insulin action for glucose and to insulin's action to fats. It
can be useful to check patients in initial stages with persisting
hyperglycemia also showing IR but are without VAT?
> Years of MetS precedes type-2 diabetes.
Yes, but those type2 should had also been on medication programme prior
to getting MetS.
> http://tinyurl.com/ju8we
>
> "BACKGROUND: Obesity and type 2 diabetes mellitus are characterized by
> insulin resistance. We determined the relationship between insulin
> resistance and visceral adipose tissue (VAT) and their correlation with
> bioimpedance analysis in nonobese new onset type 2 diabetes patients.
> METHODS: A number of 30 new onset type 2 diabetes patients and 20
> healthy control subjects with similar features, age between 45 - 72
> years old, BMI < 27 kg/m (2), C-peptide > 0.6 nmol/L, were included in
> study. Fasting blood glucose, HbA1c, serum lipids, BMI, insulin,
> C-peptide, HOMA-IR, bioimpedance analysis and visceral and subcutaneous
> adipose tissue (by computed tomography) were measured. RESULTS: In the
> patient group, VAT was significantly higher compared to healthy control
> group (33.17 +/- 10.23 % vs. 16.53 +/- 7.85 %, p < 0.001). In the
> patient group VAT was correlated with HOMA-IR (r = 0.62, p = 0.003),
> but no significant correlation was observed between VAT and
> bioimpedance analysis. CONCLUSIONS: The amount of VAT is significantly
> higher in nonobese new onset patients with type 2 diabetes than the
> healthy control group. In these patients, VAT measured by CT is an
> important indicator of insulin resistance. Although bioimpedance
> analysis can give an idea about total body fat and obesity, it is not
> sufficient in evaluating fat distribution and therefore is not
> effective in predicting insulin resistance."
We should try to check those diabetes2 patients who are without VAT to
evaluate glucose related IR.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Any food eaten in excess can be converted for storage as fat.
> > VAT is the source of the inflammatory cytokines that lead to the
> > insulin resistance underlying metabolic syndrome (MetS).
>
> Energy excesses..may be the criteria of devoloping IR. No doubt any
> stress caused due to any excesses may trigger stress hormones which may
> lock/dull insulin's action and cause hyperglycemia. VAT may be common
> in type2 patient with IR. But still there can be one or both type of
> IR--to insulin action for glucose and to insulin's action to fats. It
> can be useful to check patients in initial stages with persisting
> hyperglycemia also showing IR but are without VAT?
Those without VAT are without IR.
> > Years of MetS precedes type-2 diabetes.
>
> Yes, but those type2 should had also been on medication programme prior
> to getting MetS.
Far wiser is to stay lean&trim without VAT.
> > http://tinyurl.com/ju8we
> >
> > "BACKGROUND: Obesity and type 2 diabetes mellitus are characterized by
> > insulin resistance. We determined the relationship between insulin
> > resistance and visceral adipose tissue (VAT) and their correlation with
> > bioimpedance analysis in nonobese new onset type 2 diabetes patients.
> > METHODS: A number of 30 new onset type 2 diabetes patients and 20
> > healthy control subjects with similar features, age between 45 - 72
> > years old, BMI < 27 kg/m (2), C-peptide > 0.6 nmol/L, were included in
> > study. Fasting blood glucose, HbA1c, serum lipids, BMI, insulin,
> > C-peptide, HOMA-IR, bioimpedance analysis and visceral and subcutaneous
> > adipose tissue (by computed tomography) were measured. RESULTS: In the
> > patient group, VAT was significantly higher compared to healthy control
> > group (33.17 +/- 10.23 % vs. 16.53 +/- 7.85 %, p < 0.001). In the
> > patient group VAT was correlated with HOMA-IR (r = 0.62, p = 0.003),
> > but no significant correlation was observed between VAT and
> > bioimpedance analysis. CONCLUSIONS: The amount of VAT is significantly
> > higher in nonobese new onset patients with type 2 diabetes than the
> > healthy control group. In these patients, VAT measured by CT is an
> > important indicator of insulin resistance. Although bioimpedance
> > analysis can give an idea about total body fat and obesity, it is not
> > sufficient in evaluating fat distribution and therefore is not
> > effective in predicting insulin resistance."
>
> We should try to check those diabetes2 patients who are without VAT to
> evaluate glucose related IR.
There are none. All type-2 diabetics have VAT at the onset of their
disease.
May GOD continue to keep your heart beating, dear neighbor Kumar whom I
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Samantha Montague wrote:
> > Hello, I am new to this newsgroup although I am quite familiar with the
> > internet as I have used it since college. I have been recently diagnosed
> > with type 2 diabetes and have been given a great deal of information
> > which I am slowly sifting through. I am told by various sources that
> > diabetes isn't curable and although they are aware of some contributing
> > factors, excess weight, hereditary instances, some medications etc etc,
> > they still aren't really sure what causes it. I have been reading
> > through this group on google and have noticed that there is a doctor on
> > here who says that it is curable, but he seems to think that is only so
> > if the diabetic is over weight. I am not. Are there any other ways, and
> > is it possible that a healthy non diabetic person can contract diabetes
> > from close contact with several people who have diabetes?
> > It concerns me a great deal, both the conflicting advice from
> > professional sources, and the possibility that I may have caught it from
> > spending too much time in close contact with diabetics. If that is so,
> > I am worried about the possibility of passing it on.
> >
> > Sam
>
> I am sorry to appear so rude as to ask for advice and not respond to all
> those who went out of their way to offer it, but shortly after posting
> here I was attacked very violently in a home invasion and was only
> released from hospital yesterday. I will be in a wheelchair for some
> weeks and will need to go back into hospital for some operations when
> the swelling goes down enough for them to be able to operate. They
> dislocated two joints and the swelling is still very severe, so they
> can't start repairing tendons or cartilage yet. I am back with my
> parents now and will probably stay here for a few months until I fully
> recover. My apartment has been ruined for me and I will have to try to
> break my lease and find another more secure one when I am able to be on
> my own again.
Sad to read about this.
> I have a new diabetic problem now, for some reason, while I was in
> hospital my blood sugar has climbed dramatically, it is really high now
> and they have me on insulin. I am getting headaches whenever it goes
> really high but I am not sure if that was from the assault or just from
> the diabetes. I was punched and kicked in my head so it might be from
> the assault but it is more intense when my sugar is high, it reduces
> when I get it down. One of the nurses said that some diabetics have
> higher readings when on morphine as I was for the past week or so. Is
> this common?
It is common for BG to be difficult to control while in pain.
> I have read through many of the replies to my original post and thank
> those people who took the trouble to try to help me.
You are welcome. All thanks and praises belong to GOD Whom I love with
all my being.
May GOD heal continue to heal our hearts and the rest of us, dear
neighbor Sam whom I love unconditionally.
Samantha Montague
I wasn't in much pain once they got me out of ER and into a hospital
room. In ER they wouldn't give me any pain medication until they had
worked out how severe my head and internal injuries were so I just had
to put up with it. After that I was on morphine and not feeling much
physical pain, just anxiety and anger.
>
>> I have read through many of the replies to my original post and thank
>> those people who took the trouble to try to help me.
>
> You are welcome. All thanks and praises belong to GOD Whom I love with
> all my being.
Well that may be so but I was thanking those that took the time to offer
help. My communication with and thanks to God is another matter and
quite personal. I am sure God doesn't expect bad manners in his name.
>
> May GOD heal continue to heal our hearts and the rest of us, dear
> neighbor Sam whom I love unconditionally.
>
> Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
>
> Andrew <><
Thank you.
Sam
Kumar
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> Kumar wrote:
> > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > Whether VAT is more related to converted fats from glucose or to
> > > > absorbed direct fats?
> > >
> > > VAT is simply arising from overeating.
Whether glucose levels is dependant on fats levels?
> > Overeating can be with or without taking more fats. It is to be
> > understood, if VAT is due to converted glucose in fats or due to taking
> > direct more fats?
>
> Any food eaten in excess can be converted for storage as fat.
Can we consider overeating as stress?
Can we consider stress as prime reson to getting diabetes2 or to IR?
> > > VAT is the source of the inflammatory cytokines that lead to the
> > > insulin resistance underlying metabolic syndrome (MetS).
> >
> > Energy excesses..may be the criteria of devoloping IR. No doubt any
> > stress caused due to any excesses may trigger stress hormones which may
> > lock/dull insulin's action and cause hyperglycemia. VAT may be common
> > in type2 patient with IR. But still there can be one or both type of
> > IR--to insulin action for glucose and to insulin's action to fats. It
> > can be useful to check patients in initial stages with persisting
> > hyperglycemia also showing IR but are without VAT?
>
> Those without VAT are without IR.
Can't thin and lean looking people without look of central obesity be
insulin resistant?
> > > Years of MetS precedes type-2 diabetes.
> >
> > Yes, but those type2 should had also been on medication programme prior
> > to getting MetS.
>
> Far wiser is to stay lean&trim without VAT.
Yes, but predisposition to overeating may interfere in it. You can say
leave alcohol to an alchoholic person, but the real disease in
overdrinking. Moreover recommending by doctors, avoid overeating or
avoid overdriking is not a treatment/cure but can be just a comprising
with the condition/predisposition which in most cases may not work. ??
How can we medicate,treat or cure predisposed overeatings in diabetes
patients?
As asked, does it mean, glucose levels are dependant on fats/VATS
levels(May be protiens also)?
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > Kumar wrote:
> > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > > Whether VAT is more related to converted fats from glucose or to
> > > > > absorbed direct fats?
> > > >
> > > > VAT is simply arising from overeating.
>
> Whether glucose levels is dependant on fats levels?
Not directly.
VAT does increase insulin resistance, however.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
The latter would still elevate your stress hormones which will in turn
cause hyperglycemia.
> >> I have read through many of the replies to my original post and thank
> >> those people who took the trouble to try to help me.
> >
> > You are welcome. All thanks and praises belong to GOD Whom I love with
> > all my being.
>
> Well that may be so but I was thanking those that took the time to offer
> help.
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9f1f2ddf1514be7f?
> My communication with and thanks to God is another matter and
> quite personal.
It remains my choice to redirect all thanks and praises to HIM now and
always
> I am sure God doesn't expect bad manners in his name.
HE knows everything and will judge accordingly.
> >
> > May GOD heal continue to heal our hearts and the rest of us, dear
> > neighbor Sam whom I love unconditionally.
> >
> > Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
> >
> > Andrew <><
>
> Thank you.
You are welcome. In turn, many thanks and much praise to GOD for your
grateful heart.
May GOD continue to heal your heart by curing your diabetes, dear
neighbor Sam whom I love unconditionally.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
Andrew <><
Kumar
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> Kumar wrote:
> > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > Kumar wrote:
> > > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > > > Whether VAT is more related to converted fats from glucose or to
> > > > > > absorbed direct fats?
> > > > >
> > > > > VAT is simply arising from overeating.
> >
> > Whether glucose levels is dependant on fats levels?
> Not directly.
Can glucose levels be still higher persistantly inspite fats stores are
low?
> VAT does increase insulin resistance, however.
Central obesity is also indicated as 'apple-shaped' or 'masculine'
obesity.
Whether VAT and VAT related Insulin resistence is similar in women
also?
Many times, I experianced control of previously persistent
hyperglycemia even with lesser medications (sometimes almost no
medicines/insulin) and more food intake(can be just double) same or
some more or less physical activity, when I travel to green and
non-polluted remote area from my current residance in big modern
crowded and polluted city. VAT/Central obesity may remaind same. If VAT
is responsible to insulin resistance mediated persistant hyperglycimia,
how glucose levels are well controlled?
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > Kumar wrote:
> > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > Kumar wrote:
> > > > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > > > > Whether VAT is more related to converted fats from glucose or to
> > > > > > > absorbed direct fats?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > VAT is simply arising from overeating.
> > >
> > > Whether glucose levels is dependant on fats levels?
>
> > Not directly.
>
> Can glucose levels be still higher persistantly inspite fats stores are
> low?
The non-pathological fat storage is SAT and not VAT .
> > VAT does increase insulin resistance, however.
>
> Central obesity is also indicated as 'apple-shaped' or 'masculine'
> obesity.
> Whether VAT and VAT related Insulin resistence is similar in women
> also?
It is.
> Many times, I experianced control of previously persistent
> hyperglycemia even with lesser medications (sometimes almost no
> medicines/insulin) and more food intake(can be just double) same or
> some more or less physical activity, when I travel to green and
> non-polluted remote area from my current residance in big modern
> crowded and polluted city. VAT/Central obesity may remaind same. If VAT
> is responsible to insulin resistance mediated persistant hyperglycimia,
> how glucose levels are well controlled?
By more insulin.
Kumar
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> Kumar wrote:
> > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > Kumar wrote:
> > > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > > Kumar wrote:
> > > > > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > > > > > Whether VAT is more related to converted fats from glucose or to
> > > > > > > > absorbed direct fats?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > VAT is simply arising from overeating.
> > > >
> > > > Whether glucose levels is dependant on fats levels?
> >
> > > Not directly.
> >
> > Can glucose levels be still higher persistantly inspite fats stores are
> > low?
>
> The non-pathological fat storage is SAT and not VAT .
Pls tell more about SAT.
> > > VAT does increase insulin resistance, however.
> >
> > Central obesity is also indicated as 'apple-shaped' or 'masculine'
> > obesity.
> > Whether VAT and VAT related Insulin resistence is similar in women
> > also?
>
> It is.
Why it is called 'masculine'?
> > Many times, I experianced control of previously persistent
> > hyperglycemia even with lesser medications (sometimes almost no
> > medicines/insulin) and more food intake(can be just double) same or
> > some more or less physical activity, when I travel to green and
> > non-polluted remote area from my current residance in big modern
> > crowded and polluted city. VAT/Central obesity may remaind same. If VAT
> > is responsible to insulin resistance mediated persistant hyperglycimia,
> > how glucose levels are well controlled?
>
> By more insulin.
I meant, how persistent high glucose levels got controlled by going
into remote non-polluted, stressfree environment inspite of taking more
food and less medicine/insulin, if VAT is responsible to IR induced
hyperglycemia?
Can persistent stress [esp. due to high noise levels,
over-illumination, crowding (continious exposure to pathogenic
microbes), air pollutions(continious exposure to strange particles)
encouraging inflammatory responses] be independant factor for getting
persistent hyperglycemia and insulin resistance?
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > Kumar wrote:
> > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > Kumar wrote:
> > > > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > > > Kumar wrote:
> > > > > > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Whether VAT is more related to converted fats from glucose or to
> > > > > > > > > absorbed direct fats?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > VAT is simply arising from overeating.
> > > > >
> > > > > Whether glucose levels is dependant on fats levels?
> > >
> > > > Not directly.
> > >
> > > Can glucose levels be still higher persistantly inspite fats stores are
> > > low?
> >
> > The non-pathological fat storage is SAT and not VAT .
>
> Pls tell more about SAT.
Subcutaneous adipose tissue.
> > > > VAT does increase insulin resistance, however.
> > >
> > > Central obesity is also indicated as 'apple-shaped' or 'masculine'
> > > obesity.
>
> > > Whether VAT and VAT related Insulin resistence is similar in women
> > > also?
> >
> > It is.
>
> Why it is called 'masculine'?
VAT is not called masculine.
> > > Many times, I experianced control of previously persistent
> > > hyperglycemia even with lesser medications (sometimes almost no
> > > medicines/insulin) and more food intake(can be just double) same or
> > > some more or less physical activity, when I travel to green and
> > > non-polluted remote area from my current residance in big modern
> > > crowded and polluted city. VAT/Central obesity may remaind same. If VAT
> > > is responsible to insulin resistance mediated persistant hyperglycimia,
> > > how glucose levels are well controlled?
> >
> > By more insulin.
>
> I meant, how persistent high glucose levels got controlled by going
> into remote non-polluted, stressfree environment inspite of taking more
> food and less medicine/insulin, if VAT is responsible to IR induced
> hyperglycemia?
VAT is the cause of the IR.
Without IR, the hyperglycemia would not happen no matter how polluted
and stressful an environment might be.
> Can persistent stress [esp. due to high noise levels,
> over-illumination, crowding (continious exposure to pathogenic
> microbes), air pollutions(continious exposure to strange particles)
> encouraging inflammatory responses] be independant factor for getting
> persistent hyperglycemia and insulin resistance?
See above.
May GOD continue to keep your heart beating, dear neighbor Kumar whom I
love unconditionally.
Who is LORD and GOD.
"KING of kings and LORD of lords." (Revelation 19:16)
May GOD continue to keep your heart beating so that you will have time
to find the way, dear neighbor Werner whom I love unconditionally.
Kumar
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> Kumar wrote:
> > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > Kumar wrote:
> > > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > > Kumar wrote:
> > > > > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > > > > Kumar wrote:
> > > > > > > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Whether VAT is more related to converted fats from glucose or to
> > > > > > > > > > absorbed direct fats?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > VAT is simply arising from overeating.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Whether glucose levels is dependant on fats levels?
> > > >
> > > > > Not directly.
> > > >
> > > > Can glucose levels be still higher persistantly inspite fats stores are
> > > > low?
> > >
> > > The non-pathological fat storage is SAT and not VAT .
> >
> > Pls tell more about SAT.
>
> Subcutaneous adipose tissue.
Can excessive VAT or SAT cause irritations to the organ/part to which
these are attached?
> > > > > VAT does increase insulin resistance, however.
> > > >
> > > > Central obesity is also indicated as 'apple-shaped' or 'masculine'
> > > > obesity.
> >
> > > > Whether VAT and VAT related Insulin resistence is similar in women
> > > > also?
> > >
> > > It is.
> >
> > Why it is called 'masculine'?
>
> VAT is not called masculine.
Whether VAT and central obesity are same?
> > > > Many times, I experianced control of previously persistent
> > > > hyperglycemia even with lesser medications (sometimes almost no
> > > > medicines/insulin) and more food intake(can be just double) same or
> > > > some more or less physical activity, when I travel to green and
> > > > non-polluted remote area from my current residance in big modern
> > > > crowded and polluted city. VAT/Central obesity may remaind same. If VAT
> > > > is responsible to insulin resistance mediated persistant hyperglycimia,
> > > > how glucose levels are well controlled?
> > >
> > > By more insulin.
> >
> > I meant, how persistent high glucose levels got controlled by going
> > into remote non-polluted, stressfree environment inspite of taking more
> > food and less medicine/insulin, if VAT is responsible to IR induced
> > hyperglycemia?
>
> VAT is the cause of the IR.
>
> Without IR, the hyperglycemia would not happen no matter how polluted
> and stressful an environment might be.
Yes, but how IR and persistent hyperglycemia is reversed on moving to
stressfree and non-polluted environment in remote green area? Can we
expect reversal of IR and of VAT, upgradation of insulin receptors in
just 2/3 days on moving to new stressfree environment?
> > Can persistent stress [esp. due to high noise levels,
> > over-illumination, crowding (continious exposure to pathogenic
> > microbes), air pollutions(continious exposure to strange particles)
> > encouraging inflammatory responses] be independant factor for getting
> > persistent hyperglycemia and insulin resistance?
>
> See above.
Probably, we may have to understand more about "stress relation with
persistent hyperglycemia". Probably, resistance or tolerance to stress
cause lesser need of insulin at later stages of diabetes..(may be
somewhat "flight state of "fight and flight")
> May GOD continue to keep your heart beating, dear neighbor Kumar whom I
> love unconditionally.
Thanks.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > Kumar wrote:
> > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > Kumar wrote:
> > > > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > > > Kumar wrote:
> > > > > > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > > > > > Kumar wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > Whether VAT is more related to converted fats from glucose or to
> > > > > > > > > > > absorbed direct fats?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > VAT is simply arising from overeating.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Whether glucose levels is dependant on fats levels?
> > > > >
> > > > > > Not directly.
> > > > >
> > > > > Can glucose levels be still higher persistantly inspite fats stores are
> > > > > low?
> > > >
> > > > The non-pathological fat storage is SAT and not VAT .
> > >
> > > Pls tell more about SAT.
> >
> > Subcutaneous adipose tissue.
>
> Can excessive VAT or SAT cause irritations to the organ/part to which
> these are attached?
No.
> > > > > > VAT does increase insulin resistance, however.
> > > > >
> > > > > Central obesity is also indicated as 'apple-shaped' or 'masculine'
> > > > > obesity.
> > >
> > > > > Whether VAT and VAT related Insulin resistence is similar in women
> > > > > also?
> > > >
> > > > It is.
> > >
> > > Why it is called 'masculine'?
> >
> > VAT is not called masculine.
>
> Whether VAT and central obesity are same?
There is a strong correlation.
> > > > > Many times, I experianced control of previously persistent
> > > > > hyperglycemia even with lesser medications (sometimes almost no
> > > > > medicines/insulin) and more food intake(can be just double) same or
> > > > > some more or less physical activity, when I travel to green and
> > > > > non-polluted remote area from my current residance in big modern
> > > > > crowded and polluted city. VAT/Central obesity may remaind same. If VAT
> > > > > is responsible to insulin resistance mediated persistant hyperglycimia,
> > > > > how glucose levels are well controlled?
> > > >
> > > > By more insulin.
> > >
> > > I meant, how persistent high glucose levels got controlled by going
> > > into remote non-polluted, stressfree environment inspite of taking more
> > > food and less medicine/insulin, if VAT is responsible to IR induced
> > > hyperglycemia?
> >
> > VAT is the cause of the IR.
> >
> > Without IR, the hyperglycemia would not happen no matter how polluted
> > and stressful an environment might be.
>
> Yes, but how IR and persistent hyperglycemia is reversed on moving to
> stressfree and non-polluted environment in remote green area? Can we
> expect reversal of IR and of VAT, upgradation of insulin receptors in
> just 2/3 days on moving to new stressfree environment?
VAT is lost by eating less and not by moving to a new environment.
May GOD continue to keep your heart beating, dear neighbor Kumar whom I
love unconditionally.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
Kumar
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> Kumar wrote:
> > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > Kumar wrote:
> > > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > > Kumar wrote:
> > > > > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > > > > Kumar wrote:
> > > > > > > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Kumar wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > Whether VAT is more related to converted fats from glucose or to
> > > > > > > > > > > > absorbed direct fats?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > VAT is simply arising from overeating.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Whether glucose levels is dependant on fats levels?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Not directly.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Can glucose levels be still higher persistantly inspite fats stores are
> > > > > > low?
> > > > >
> > > > > The non-pathological fat storage is SAT and not VAT .
> > > >
> > > > Pls tell more about SAT.
> > >
> > > Subcutaneous adipose tissue.
> >
> > Can excessive VAT or SAT cause irritations to the organ/part to which
> > these are attached?
>
> No.
>
Can greater VAT be a reson to the excessive gas in abdomen?
> > > > > > > VAT does increase insulin resistance, however.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Central obesity is also indicated as 'apple-shaped' or 'masculine'
> > > > > > obesity.
> > > >
> > > > > > Whether VAT and VAT related Insulin resistence is similar in women
> > > > > > also?
> > > > >
> > > > > It is.
> > > >
> > > > Why it is called 'masculine'?
> > >
> > > VAT is not called masculine.
> >
> > Whether VAT and central obesity are same?
>
> There is a strong correlation.
Whether central obesity(apple shapped) is more common in men than in
women and hip's/back obesity(pear shapped) is opposite?
> > > > > > Many times, I experianced control of previously persistent
> > > > > > hyperglycemia even with lesser medications (sometimes almost no
> > > > > > medicines/insulin) and more food intake(can be just double) same or
> > > > > > some more or less physical activity, when I travel to green and
> > > > > > non-polluted remote area from my current residance in big modern
> > > > > > crowded and polluted city. VAT/Central obesity may remaind same. If VAT
> > > > > > is responsible to insulin resistance mediated persistant hyperglycimia,
> > > > > > how glucose levels are well controlled?
> > > > >
> > > > > By more insulin.
> > > >
> > > > I meant, how persistent high glucose levels got controlled by going
> > > > into remote non-polluted, stressfree environment inspite of taking more
> > > > food and less medicine/insulin, if VAT is responsible to IR induced
> > > > hyperglycemia?
> > >
> > > VAT is the cause of the IR.
> > >
> > > Without IR, the hyperglycemia would not happen no matter how polluted
> > > and stressful an environment might be.
> >
> > Yes, but how IR and persistent hyperglycemia is reversed on moving to
> > stressfree and non-polluted environment in remote green area? Can we
> > expect reversal of IR and of VAT, upgradation of insulin receptors in
> > just 2/3 days on moving to new stressfree environment?
>
> VAT is lost by eating less and not by moving to a new environment.
Yes then, how persisted hyperglycemia due to IR resistance and greater
VAT show reversal symptoms by moving to stress free remote area inspite
of taking lesser or no diabetic medication and more food?
Whether more insulin interfere in using stores energy of glucose,
lipids and protiens?
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Possibly.
> > > > > > > > VAT does increase insulin resistance, however.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Central obesity is also indicated as 'apple-shaped' or 'masculine'
> > > > > > > obesity.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > Whether VAT and VAT related Insulin resistence is similar in women
> > > > > > > also?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It is.
> > > > >
> > > > > Why it is called 'masculine'?
> > > >
> > > > VAT is not called masculine.
> > >
> > > Whether VAT and central obesity are same?
> >
> > There is a strong correlation.
>
> Whether central obesity(apple shapped) is more common in men than in
> women and hip's/back obesity(pear shapped) is opposite?
Yes.
> > > > > > > Many times, I experianced control of previously persistent
> > > > > > > hyperglycemia even with lesser medications (sometimes almost no
> > > > > > > medicines/insulin) and more food intake(can be just double) same or
> > > > > > > some more or less physical activity, when I travel to green and
> > > > > > > non-polluted remote area from my current residance in big modern
> > > > > > > crowded and polluted city. VAT/Central obesity may remaind same. If VAT
> > > > > > > is responsible to insulin resistance mediated persistant hyperglycimia,
> > > > > > > how glucose levels are well controlled?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > By more insulin.
> > > > >
> > > > > I meant, how persistent high glucose levels got controlled by going
> > > > > into remote non-polluted, stressfree environment inspite of taking more
> > > > > food and less medicine/insulin, if VAT is responsible to IR induced
> > > > > hyperglycemia?
> > > >
> > > > VAT is the cause of the IR.
> > > >
> > > > Without IR, the hyperglycemia would not happen no matter how polluted
> > > > and stressful an environment might be.
> > >
> > > Yes, but how IR and persistent hyperglycemia is reversed on moving to
> > > stressfree and non-polluted environment in remote green area? Can we
> > > expect reversal of IR and of VAT, upgradation of insulin receptors in
> > > just 2/3 days on moving to new stressfree environment?
> >
> > VAT is lost by eating less and not by moving to a new environment.
>
> Yes then, how persisted hyperglycemia due to IR resistance and greater
> VAT show reversal symptoms by moving to stress free remote area inspite
> of taking lesser or no diabetic medication and more food?
The VAT will still persist until the overeating stops.
> Whether more insulin interfere in using stores energy of glucose,
> lipids and protiens?
Insulin regulates blood glucose and not energy stores. Increasing
energy stores occurs with overeating which is in turn regulated by
choices made through the free will generously given by GOD to all souls
including those belong to even fig trees (Mark 11:12-14, 20)
May GOD continue to heal your heart by curing your diabetes, dear
Kumar
How?
> > > > > > > > > VAT does increase insulin resistance, however.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Central obesity is also indicated as 'apple-shaped' or 'masculine'
> > > > > > > > obesity.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Whether VAT and VAT related Insulin resistence is similar in women
> > > > > > > > also?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It is.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Why it is called 'masculine'?
> > > > >
> > > > > VAT is not called masculine.
> > > >
> > > > Whether VAT and central obesity are same?
> > >
> > > There is a strong correlation.
> >
> > Whether central obesity(apple shapped) is more common in men than in
> > women and hip's/back obesity(pear shapped) is opposite?
>
> Yes.
Why?
Can it be related to prolonged contracted or relaxed conditions of
muscles respectively?
Sorry, but I am finding, you are bit hesitant to give right awnser to
this question. I just remember that previously this reversal was
related to stress.
> > Whether more insulin interfere in using stores energy of glucose,
> > lipids and protiens?
>
> Insulin regulates blood glucose and not energy stores. Increasing
> energy stores occurs with overeating which is in turn regulated by
> choices made through the free will generously given by GOD to all souls
> including those belong to even fig trees (Mark 11:12-14, 20)
But it is indicative by actions of insulin as quoted by me earlier.
Suppose, if insulin resist use of energy stores, can it mediate
persistent hyperglycemia for immediate need of glucose?
If we don't do exertion or take stress or suppose we are in state of so
interpreted as "adam and eve", can our energy requirement be met by non
insulin dependant sugars or by non-pathogenic amount of fats/protiens?
Can insulin [may be hormones] be considered as stress/exertion related
biochemicals?
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Inflammation-mediated alterations in gut flora.
> > > > > > > > > > VAT does increase insulin resistance, however.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Central obesity is also indicated as 'apple-shaped' or 'masculine'
> > > > > > > > > obesity.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Whether VAT and VAT related Insulin resistence is similar in women
> > > > > > > > > also?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It is.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Why it is called 'masculine'?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > VAT is not called masculine.
> > > > >
> > > > > Whether VAT and central obesity are same?
> > > >
> > > > There is a strong correlation.
> > >
> > > Whether central obesity(apple shapped) is more common in men than in
> > > women and hip's/back obesity(pear shapped) is opposite?
> >
> > Yes.
>
> Why?
Differences in hormonal mileau leading to difference in gene
expression.
> Can it be related to prolonged contracted or relaxed conditions of
> muscles respectively?
No.
You remember incorrectly.
> > > Whether more insulin interfere in using stores energy of glucose,
> > > lipids and protiens?
> >
> > Insulin regulates blood glucose and not energy stores. Increasing
> > energy stores occurs with overeating which is in turn regulated by
> > choices made through the free will generously given by GOD to all souls
> > including those belong to even fig trees (Mark 11:12-14, 20)
>
> But it is indicative by actions of insulin as quoted by me earlier.
If there is no overeating, there would be nothing to store.
> Suppose, if insulin resist use of energy stores, can it mediate
> persistent hyperglycemia for immediate need of glucose?
Insulin counters hyperglycemia that is either persistent or transient.
> If we don't do exertion or take stress or suppose we are in state of so
> interpreted as "adam and eve", can our energy requirement be met by non
> insulin dependant sugars or by non-pathogenic amount of fats/protiens?
It is the VAT that occurs from overeating that is pathogenic.
> Can insulin [may be hormones] be considered as stress/exertion related
> biochemicals?
No.
May GOD continue to heal your heart by curing your diabetes, dear
neighbor Kumar who I love unconditionally.
Kumar
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> Kumar wrote:
> > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whether VAT is more related to converted fats from glucose or to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > absorbed direct fats?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > VAT is simply arising from overeating.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Whether glucose levels is dependant on fats levels?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Not directly.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Can glucose levels be still higher persistantly inspite fats stores are
> > > > > > > > > > low?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The non-pathological fat storage is SAT and not VAT .
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Pls tell more about SAT.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Subcutaneous adipose tissue.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Can excessive VAT or SAT cause irritations to the organ/part to which
> > > > > > these are attached?
> > > > >
> > > > > No.
> > > >
> > > > Can greater VAT be a reson to the excessive gas in abdomen?
> > >
> > > Possibly.
> >
> > How?
>
> Inflammation-mediated alterations in gut flora.
Can Inflammation-mediated alterations be contracted smooth muscles of
intestines? Stress hormone may cause constriction in GUT.
Btw, can you tell where consriction and dilation simultaneously occur
under influence of any hormone or neurotransmitter or otherwise?
> > > > > > > > > > > VAT does increase insulin resistance, however.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Central obesity is also indicated as 'apple-shaped' or 'masculine'
> > > > > > > > > > obesity.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Whether VAT and VAT related Insulin resistence is similar in women
> > > > > > > > > > also?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It is.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Why it is called 'masculine'?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > VAT is not called masculine.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Whether VAT and central obesity are same?
> > > > >
> > > > > There is a strong correlation.
> > > >
> > > > Whether central obesity(apple shapped) is more common in men than in
> > > > women and hip's/back obesity(pear shapped) is opposite?
> > >
> > > Yes.
> >
> > Why?
>
> Differences in hormonal mileau leading to difference in gene
> expression.
How excessive VATs are measured in women by clinical symptom alike
these can be measured by abdomen circumfrance?
> > Can it be related to prolonged contracted or relaxed conditions of
> > muscles respectively?
>
> No.
Whether men and women commonly differ in their muscle's tone or in
relaxed or contracted conditions?
Sorry, May be some other told. Anyway can it be possible?
> > > > Whether more insulin interfere in using stores energy of glucose,
> > > > lipids and protiens?
> > >
> > > Insulin regulates blood glucose and not energy stores. Increasing
> > > energy stores occurs with overeating which is in turn regulated by
> > > choices made through the free will generously given by GOD to all souls
> > > including those belong to even fig trees (Mark 11:12-14, 20)
> >
> > But it is indicative by actions of insulin as quoted by me earlier.
>
> If there is no overeating, there would be nothing to store.
Yes, but what about on overeating?
> > Suppose, if insulin resist use of energy stores, can it mediate
> > persistent hyperglycemia for immediate need of glucose?
>
> Insulin counters hyperglycemia that is either persistent or transient.
How on insulin resistance?
> > If we don't do exertion or take stress or suppose we are in state of so
> > interpreted as "adam and eve", can our energy requirement be met by non
> > insulin dependant sugars or by non-pathogenic amount of fats/protiens?
>
> It is the VAT that occurs from overeating that is pathogenic.
Can VAT occur by stress?
> > Can insulin [may be hormones] be considered as stress/exertion related
> > biochemicals?
>
> No.
Do we commonly get resistance/tolerance from excessive/more exposure to
any hormone or to neurotransmitter as we can get to stress hormones on
chronic inflammation/infection?
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > Kumar wrote:
> > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whether VAT is more related to converted fats from glucose or to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > absorbed direct fats?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > VAT is simply arising from overeating.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Whether glucose levels is dependant on fats levels?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Not directly.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Can glucose levels be still higher persistantly inspite fats stores are
> > > > > > > > > > > low?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The non-pathological fat storage is SAT and not VAT .
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Pls tell more about SAT.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Subcutaneous adipose tissue.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Can excessive VAT or SAT cause irritations to the organ/part to which
> > > > > > > these are attached?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No.
> > > > >
> > > > > Can greater VAT be a reson to the excessive gas in abdomen?
> > > >
> > > > Possibly.
> > >
> > > How?
> >
> > Inflammation-mediated alterations in gut flora.
>
> Can Inflammation-mediated alterations be contracted smooth muscles of
> intestines? Stress hormone may cause constriction in GUT.
This would not produce gas.
> Btw, can you tell where consriction and dilation simultaneously occur
> under influence of any hormone or neurotransmitter or otherwise?
This also would not produce gas.
> > > > > > > > > > > > VAT does increase insulin resistance, however.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Central obesity is also indicated as 'apple-shaped' or 'masculine'
> > > > > > > > > > > obesity.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Whether VAT and VAT related Insulin resistence is similar in women
> > > > > > > > > > > also?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > It is.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Why it is called 'masculine'?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > VAT is not called masculine.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Whether VAT and central obesity are same?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There is a strong correlation.
> > > > >
> > > > > Whether central obesity(apple shapped) is more common in men than in
> > > > > women and hip's/back obesity(pear shapped) is opposite?
> > > >
> > > > Yes.
> > >
> > > Why?
> >
> > Differences in hormonal mileau leading to difference in gene
> > expression.
>
> How excessive VATs are measured in women by clinical symptom alike
> these can be measured by abdomen circumfrance?
Waist line measurements best correlates with VAT.
> > > Can it be related to prolonged contracted or relaxed conditions of
> > > muscles respectively?
> >
> > No.
> Whether men and women commonly differ in their muscle's tone or in
> relaxed or contracted conditions?
Still would not be related to VAT.
Not without eating less.
> > > > > Whether more insulin interfere in using stores energy of glucose,
> > > > > lipids and protiens?
> > > >
> > > > Insulin regulates blood glucose and not energy stores. Increasing
> > > > energy stores occurs with overeating which is in turn regulated by
> > > > choices made through the free will generously given by GOD to all souls
> > > > including those belong to even fig trees (Mark 11:12-14, 20)
> > >
> > > But it is indicative by actions of insulin as quoted by me earlier.
> >
> > If there is no overeating, there would be nothing to store.
>
> Yes, but what about on overeating?
Though insulin would be involved as a mediator of fat storage it would
not be involved as a moderator of it.
> > > Suppose, if insulin resist use of energy stores, can it mediate
> > > persistent hyperglycemia for immediate need of glucose?
> >
> > Insulin counters hyperglycemia that is either persistent or transient.
>
> How on insulin resistance?
No role.
> > > If we don't do exertion or take stress or suppose we are in state of so
> > > interpreted as "adam and eve", can our energy requirement be met by non
> > > insulin dependant sugars or by non-pathogenic amount of fats/protiens?
> >
> > It is the VAT that occurs from overeating that is pathogenic.
>
> Can VAT occur by stress?
No. Simply by overeating.
> > > Can insulin [may be hormones] be considered as stress/exertion related
> > > biochemicals?
> >
> > No.
>
> Do we commonly get resistance/tolerance from excessive/more exposure to
> any hormone or to neurotransmitter as we can get to stress hormones on
> chronic inflammation/infection?
No. Especially not in the case of insulin.
Would suggest you simply stop resisting the idea of eating less and
simply do it to lose the VAT to cure your MetS and possibly also your
diabetes:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/wtloss.asp
**Physician supervision required**
May GOD continue to heal your heart by curing your diabetes, dear
neighbor Kumar whom I love unconditionally.
Kumar
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> Kumar wrote:
> > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > Kumar wrote:
> > > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > > > > > Can excessive VAT or SAT cause irritations to the organ/part to which
> > > > > > > > these are attached?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > No.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Can greater VAT be a reson to the excessive gas in abdomen?
> > > > >
> > > > > Possibly.
> > > >
> > > > How?
> > >
> > > Inflammation-mediated alterations in gut flora.
> >
> > intestines? Stress hormone may cause constriction in GUT.
>
> This would not produce gas.
>
> > Btw, can you tell where consriction and dilation simultaneously occur
> > under influence of any hormone or neurotransmitter or otherwise?
>
> This also would not produce gas.
Three alt. healing agents indicated for, one causing relaxed conditions
or reversing contracted conditions of muscles or causing
vasodilation(Mg based) instantly relieve excessive gas but with bad
smell in intestines whereas other ( iron and Ca based) relieving from
prolonged relaxed conditions or causing vasoconstrictions cause
excessive gas but with no stool odour and unclear motions(not
constipation).
However, that was different question. I want to know simultanious
dilation and constriction at different part of body under same
influence/stimuli.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > VAT does increase insulin resistance, however.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Central obesity is also indicated as 'apple-shaped' or 'masculine'
> > > > > > > > > > > > obesity.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Whether VAT and VAT related Insulin resistence is similar in women
> > > > > > > > > > > > also?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > It is.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Why it is called 'masculine'?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > VAT is not called masculine.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Whether VAT and central obesity are same?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There is a strong correlation.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Whether central obesity(apple shapped) is more common in men than in
> > > > > > women and hip's/back obesity(pear shapped) is opposite?
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes.
> > > >
> > > > Why?
> > >
> > > Differences in hormonal mileau leading to difference in gene
> > > expression.
> >
> > How excessive VATs are measured in women by clinical symptom alike
> > these can be measured by abdomen circumfrance?
>
> Waist line measurements best correlates with VAT.
Whether Waist line measurements also increases in womenwith greater
VAT?
> > > > Can it be related to prolonged contracted or relaxed conditions of
> > > > muscles respectively?
> > >
> > > No.
>
> > Whether men and women commonly differ in their muscle's tone or in
> > relaxed or contracted conditions?
>
> Still would not be related to VAT.
May be, but is it common difference in men and women?
But it is not observed in my practical experiance. I think, my
persistent hyperglycemia is " persistent environmental stress related"
as overeatings and medications are not directly proportional to my
glucose levels. It may not be transient because persistent
environmental stresseor so stress hormones may be always
preasent--crowding(occasional interations with pathogens) air
pollution(occasional interations with strange particles), high noise
levels, over-illuminations(over use of artificial lights) etc. Other
stressors as modern/unhygenic food, strong
medicines/chemicals/pesticides effect, business/money due to socially
mediated greed/emotions /ensions etc. can add to it?
> > > > > > Whether more insulin interfere in using stores energy of glucose,
> > > > > > lipids and protiens?
> > > > >
> > > > > Insulin regulates blood glucose and not energy stores. Increasing
> > > > > energy stores occurs with overeating which is in turn regulated by
> > > > > choices made through the free will generously given by GOD to all souls
> > > > > including those belong to even fig trees (Mark 11:12-14, 20)
> > > >
> > > > But it is indicative by actions of insulin as quoted by me earlier.
> > >
> > > If there is no overeating, there would be nothing to store.
> >
> > Yes, but what about on overeating?
>
> Though insulin would be involved as a mediator of fat storage it would
> not be involved as a moderator of it.
Whether adipose tissues have insulin receptors?
> > > > Suppose, if insulin resist use of energy stores, can it mediate
> > > > persistent hyperglycemia for immediate need of glucose?
> > >
> > > Insulin counters hyperglycemia that is either persistent or transient.
> >
> > How on insulin resistance?
>
> No role.
Persistent hyperglycemia may indicate IR/diabetes whereas transient
may not?
> > > > If we don't do exertion or take stress or suppose we are in state of so
> > > > interpreted as "adam and eve", can our energy requirement be met by non
> > > > insulin dependant sugars or by non-pathogenic amount of fats/protiens?
> > >
> > > It is the VAT that occurs from overeating that is pathogenic.
> >
> > Can VAT occur by stress?
>
> No. Simply by overeating.
>
> > > > Can insulin [may be hormones] be considered as stress/exertion related
> > > > biochemicals?
> > >
> > > No.
> >
> > Do we commonly get resistance/tolerance from excessive/more exposure to
> > any hormone or to neurotransmitter as we can get to stress hormones on
> > chronic inflammation/infection?
>
> No. Especially not in the case of insulin.
Can you evalute it, whether a person in perfect health as gifted by
LORD and without stress ill will need aid of hormones and
neurotransmittors?
ou simply stop resisting the idea of eating less and
> Would suggest to simply do it to lose the VAT to cure your MetS and possibly also your
> diabetes:
Yes, but that is just compromising neither treatment nor cure. Anyway
thanks although it can work the best.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
I do not have a working familiarity with the "healing agents" you are
using.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > VAT does increase insulin resistance, however.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Central obesity is also indicated as 'apple-shaped' or 'masculine'
> > > > > > > > > > > > > obesity.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Whether VAT and VAT related Insulin resistence is similar in women
> > > > > > > > > > > > > also?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > It is.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Why it is called 'masculine'?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > VAT is not called masculine.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Whether VAT and central obesity are same?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > There is a strong correlation.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Whether central obesity(apple shapped) is more common in men than in
> > > > > > > women and hip's/back obesity(pear shapped) is opposite?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes.
> > > > >
> > > > > Why?
> > > >
> > > > Differences in hormonal mileau leading to difference in gene
> > > > expression.
> > >
> > > How excessive VATs are measured in women by clinical symptom alike
> > > these can be measured by abdomen circumfrance?
> >
> > Waist line measurements best correlates with VAT.
>
> Whether Waist line measurements also increases in womenwith greater
> VAT?
Yes.
> > > > > Can it be related to prolonged contracted or relaxed conditions of
> > > > > muscles respectively?
> > > >
> > > > No.
> >
> > > Whether men and women commonly differ in their muscle's tone or in
> > > relaxed or contracted conditions?
> >
> > Still would not be related to VAT.
>
> May be, but is it common difference in men and women?
It is not a known difference.
More likely is that the amount you are eating is varying without your
awareness if you are not weighing your meals.
This is typically the case for those who are not weighing their meals
because their feelings of hunger and satiety are not reliable in their
subjectivity to allow objective assessment of the amount they are
eating.
> > > > > > > Whether more insulin interfere in using stores energy of glucose,
> > > > > > > lipids and protiens?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Insulin regulates blood glucose and not energy stores. Increasing
> > > > > > energy stores occurs with overeating which is in turn regulated by
> > > > > > choices made through the free will generously given by GOD to all souls
> > > > > > including those belong to even fig trees (Mark 11:12-14, 20)
> > > > >
> > > > > But it is indicative by actions of insulin as quoted by me earlier.
> > > >
> > > > If there is no overeating, there would be nothing to store.
> > >
> > > Yes, but what about on overeating?
> >
> > Though insulin would be involved as a mediator of fat storage it would
> > not be involved as a moderator of it.
>
> Whether adipose tissues have insulin receptors?
They do.
> > > > > Suppose, if insulin resist use of energy stores, can it mediate
> > > > > persistent hyperglycemia for immediate need of glucose?
> > > >
> > > > Insulin counters hyperglycemia that is either persistent or transient.
> > >
> > > How on insulin resistance?
> >
> > No role.
>
> Persistent hyperglycemia may indicate IR/diabetes whereas transient
> may not?
Correct.
> > > > > If we don't do exertion or take stress or suppose we are in state of so
> > > > > interpreted as "adam and eve", can our energy requirement be met by non
> > > > > insulin dependant sugars or by non-pathogenic amount of fats/protiens?
> > > >
> > > > It is the VAT that occurs from overeating that is pathogenic.
> > >
> > > Can VAT occur by stress?
> >
> > No. Simply by overeating.
> >
> > > > > Can insulin [may be hormones] be considered as stress/exertion related
> > > > > biochemicals?
> > > >
> > > > No.
> > >
> > > Do we commonly get resistance/tolerance from excessive/more exposure to
> > > any hormone or to neurotransmitter as we can get to stress hormones on
> > > chronic inflammation/infection?
> >
> > No. Especially not in the case of insulin.
>
> Can you evalute it, whether a person in perfect health as gifted by
> LORD and without stress ill will need aid of hormones and
> neurotransmittors?
> ou simply stop resisting the idea of eating less and
It is wiser to befriend the hunger that arises from eating less.
> > Would suggest to simply do it to lose the VAT to cure your MetS and possibly also your
> > diabetes:
>
> Yes, but that is just compromising neither treatment nor cure. Anyway
> thanks although it can work the best.
The key to cure resides in losing the VAT.
Kumar
These just increase bio-avalability or bio-usefulness of otherwise
instable or accumulated Mg, Fe, Ca and P (may be F also).
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > VAT does increase insulin resistance, however.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Central obesity is also indicated as 'apple-shaped' or 'masculine'
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > obesity.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whether VAT and VAT related Insulin resistence is similar in women
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > also?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > It is.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Why it is called 'masculine'?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > VAT is not called masculine.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Whether VAT and central obesity are same?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > There is a strong correlation.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Whether central obesity(apple shapped) is more common in men than in
> > > > > > > > women and hip's/back obesity(pear shapped) is opposite?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yes.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Why?
> > > > >
> > > > > Differences in hormonal mileau leading to difference in gene
> > > > > expression.
> > > >
> > > > How excessive VATs are measured in women by clinical symptom alike
> > > > these can be measured by abdomen circumfrance?
> > >
> > > Waist line measurements best correlates with VAT.
> >
> > Whether Waist line measurements also increases in womenwith greater
> > VAT?
>
> Yes.
Thanks, but alike men, women are not commonly seen with blotted
abdomen?
> > > > > > Can it be related to prolonged contracted or relaxed conditions of
> > > > > > muscles respectively?
> > > > >
> > > > > No.
> > >
> > > > Whether men and women commonly differ in their muscle's tone or in
> > > > relaxed or contracted conditions?
> > >
> > > Still would not be related to VAT.
> >
> > May be, but is it common difference in men and women?
>
> It is not a known difference.
We should understand, why pear shapped and apple shapped happens.
No, I am much sure that I eat more food in remote area than my regular
food in city.
> > > > > > > > Whether more insulin interfere in using stores energy of glucose,
> > > > > > > > lipids and protiens?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Insulin regulates blood glucose and not energy stores. Increasing
> > > > > > > energy stores occurs with overeating which is in turn regulated by
> > > > > > > choices made through the free will generously given by GOD to all souls
> > > > > > > including those belong to even fig trees (Mark 11:12-14, 20)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But it is indicative by actions of insulin as quoted by me earlier.
> > > > >
> > > > > If there is no overeating, there would be nothing to store.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, but what about on overeating?
> > >
> > > Though insulin would be involved as a mediator of fat storage it would
> > > not be involved as a moderator of it.
> >
> > Whether adipose tissues have insulin receptors?
>
> They do.
Are these different in VAT and SAT?
Can't IR mediated by inflammatory cytokines released from VAT are meant
for controlling glucose and fats uptake into just adipose tissues and
not into muscle cells?
> > > > > > Suppose, if insulin resist use of energy stores, can it mediate
> > > > > > persistent hyperglycemia for immediate need of glucose?
> > > > >
> > > > > Insulin counters hyperglycemia that is either persistent or transient.
> > > >
> > > > How on insulin resistance?
> > >
> > > No role.
> >
> > Persistent hyperglycemia may indicate IR/diabetes whereas transient
> > may not?
>
> Correct.
Can't some cases of persistent hyperglycemia serve an alternative to
stored glucose which may be meant for immediate need of more glucose,
if due to any disorder, body can't use stored glucose/energy as
glycogen, VAT or SAT ?
> > > > > > If we don't do exertion or take stress or suppose we are in state of so
> > > > > > interpreted as "adam and eve", can our energy requirement be met by non
> > > > > > insulin dependant sugars or by non-pathogenic amount of fats/protiens?
> > > > >
> > > > > It is the VAT that occurs from overeating that is pathogenic.
> > > >
> > > > Can VAT occur by stress?
> > >
> > > No. Simply by overeating.
> > >
> > > > > > Can insulin [may be hormones] be considered as stress/exertion related
> > > > > > biochemicals?
> > > > >
> > > > > No.
> > > >
> > > > Do we commonly get resistance/tolerance from excessive/more exposure to
> > > > any hormone or to neurotransmitter as we can get to stress hormones on
> > > > chronic inflammation/infection?
> > >
> > > No. Especially not in the case of insulin.
> >
> > Can you evalute it, whether a person in perfect health as gifted by
> > LORD and without stress ill will need aid of hormones and
> > neurotransmittors?
> > ou simply stop resisting the idea of eating less and
>
> It is wiser to befriend the hunger that arises from eating less.
Yes, that can be natural and best mechanism, but I am also trying to
understand other alternatives and realites behind IR and how it is
handled commonly.
Whether stress oriented flight and fight response, while encouraging
hyperglycemia, also encourage additional food need or additional
energy to fight or flight?
> > > Would suggest to simply do it to lose the VAT to cure your MetS and possibly also your
> > > diabetes:
> >
> > Yes, but that is just compromising neither treatment nor cure. Anyway
> > thanks although it can work the best.
>
> The key to cure resides in losing the VAT.
..or in avoiding overeating esp. fats and non routine foods?
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > Kumar wrote:
> > >
> > > Three alt. healing agents indicated for, one causing relaxed conditions
> > > or reversing contracted conditions of muscles or causing
> > > vasodilation(Mg based) instantly relieve excessive gas but with bad
> > > smell in intestines whereas other ( iron and Ca based) relieving from
> > > prolonged relaxed conditions or causing vasoconstrictions cause
> > > excessive gas but with no stool odour and unclear motions(not
> > > constipation).
> > >
> > > However, that was different question. I want to know simultanious
> > > dilation and constriction at different part of body under same
> > > influence/stimuli.
> >
> > I do not have a working familiarity with the "healing agents" you are
> > using.
>
> These just increase bio-avalability or bio-usefulness of otherwise
> instable or accumulated Mg, Fe, Ca and P (may be F also).
These elements are neither unstable nor nonbioavailable in the foods
normally eaten.
<snip>
> > >
> > > Whether Waist line measurements also increases in womenwith greater
> > > VAT?
> >
> > Yes.
>
> Thanks, but alike men, women are not commonly seen with blotted
> abdomen?
Women with MetS and especially with type-2 diabetes typically do not
have slender waistline.
<snip>
>
> We should understand, why pear shapped and apple shapped happens.
Wiser to avoid overeating and not have either shape happen.
<snip>
> > > But it is not observed in my practical experiance. I think, my
> > > persistent hyperglycemia is " persistent environmental stress related"
> > > as overeatings and medications are not directly proportional to my
> > > glucose levels. It may not be transient because persistent
> > > environmental stresseor so stress hormones may be always
> > > preasent--crowding(occasional interations with pathogens) air
> > > pollution(occasional interations with strange particles), high noise
> > > levels, over-illuminations(over use of artificial lights) etc. Other
> > > stressors as modern/unhygenic food, strong
> > > medicines/chemicals/pesticides effect, business/money due to socially
> > > mediated greed/emotions /ensions etc. can add to it?
> >
> > More likely is that the amount you are eating is varying without your
> > awareness if you are not weighing your meals.
> >
> > This is typically the case for those who are not weighing their meals
> > because their feelings of hunger and satiety are not reliable in their
> > subjectivity to allow objective assessment of the amount they are
> > eating.
>
> No, I am much sure that I eat more food in remote area than my regular
> food in city.
Only by weighing meals can anyone be certain of how much they are
eating especially if they are hungry.
<snip>
> > > Whether adipose tissues have insulin receptors?
> >
> > They do.
> Are these different in VAT and SAT?
VAT have more insulin receptors (less insulin resistant) because being
that they are the source of the inflammatory cytokines, they are
upstream from it and are resistant to the downregulation of insulin
receptors caused by the inflammation that the cyokines will trigger
downstream.
> Can't IR mediated by inflammatory cytokines released from VAT are meant
> for controlling glucose and fats uptake into just adipose tissues and
> not into muscle cells?
No.
<snip>
> Can't some cases of persistent hyperglycemia serve an alternative to
> stored glucose which may be meant for immediate need of more glucose,
> if due to any disorder, body can't use stored glucose/energy as
> glycogen, VAT or SAT ?
No. Persistent hyperglycemia is harmful.
<snip>
> > It is wiser to befriend the hunger that arises from eating less.
>
> Yes, that can be natural and best mechanism, but I am also trying to
> understand other alternatives and realites behind IR and how it is
> handled commonly.
>
> Whether stress oriented flight and fight response, while encouraging
> hyperglycemia, also encourage additional food need or additional
> energy to fight or flight?
Immediate needs are already addressed by the hyperglycemia. There are
considerable time delays before eaten food becomes available for tissue
needs because digestion and absorption takes time especially if blood
flow has been diverted from the digestive tract to muscles as is the
case with sympathetic stimulation arising from the "fight or flight"
response.
> > > > Would suggest to simply do it to lose the VAT to cure your MetS and possibly also your
> > > > diabetes:
> > >
> > > Yes, but that is just compromising neither treatment nor cure. Anyway
> > > thanks although it can work the best.
> >
> > The key to cure resides in losing the VAT.
>
> ..or in avoiding overeating esp. fats and non routine foods?
Simply by eating less down to the right amount:
Gene Goldman
<lov...@thetruth.com> wrote:
>blablabla VAT blablabla
>blablabla VAT blablabla
>blablabla VAT blablabla
Dear Mr. Chung,
Thank you for your interest in becoming an official Troll
for the alt.support.diabetes newsgroup. While your credentials
are most impressive and the examples of your work
(which we thank you for providing) do display considerable
effort on your part, we are sorry to inform you that we are
seeking a candidate with a different skill-set for the position
of Newsgroup Troll.
We will keep your on-line application on file for consideration
of any future openings. We will contact you if there are any
future openings for which we deem you suitable.
Thank you for your interest in alt.support.diabetes.
Sincerely
The alt.support.diabetes Human Resources Department.
cc:file
--
The Lizard-Spit Approach is not a diet.
It does help people manage their Diabetes Mellitus (DM) possibly preventing long-term complications resulting from poor control.
Bottomline: I remain peanut-free.
May your BG and A1c get better,dear neighbor whom I communicate with unconditionally.
Greatfully, in Lizard-Spit's amazing love,
Be well, travel with a light heart and a low A1c [Gene, 3:16]
Gene Goldman
T2
Metformin, Actos, Lizard Spit
Consuming copious amounts of Aspertame-laden soft drinks with reckless abandon!
Give me NutraSweet over peanuts any day!
Kumar
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> Kumar wrote:
> > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > Kumar wrote:
> <snip>
> > > >
> > > > Three alt. healing agents indicated for, one causing relaxed conditions
> > > > or reversing contracted conditions of muscles or causing
> > > > vasodilation(Mg based) instantly relieve excessive gas but with bad
> > > > smell in intestines whereas other ( iron and Ca based) relieving from
> > > > prolonged relaxed conditions or causing vasoconstrictions cause
> > > > excessive gas but with no stool odour and unclear motions(not
> > > > constipation).
> > > >
> > > > However, that was different question. I want to know simultanious
> > > > dilation and constriction at different part of body under same
> > > > influence/stimuli.
> > >
> > > I do not have a working familiarity with the "healing agents" you are
> > > using.
> >
> > These just increase bio-avalability or bio-usefulness of otherwise
> > instable or accumulated Mg, Fe, Ca and P (may be F also).
>
> These elements are neither unstable nor nonbioavailable in the foods
> normally eaten.
in these?
Thanks, is it meant for storage of additional/excessive glucose or for
direct fats?
> > Can't IR mediated by inflammatory cytokines released from VAT are meant
> > for controlling glucose and fats uptake into just adipose tissues and
> > not into muscle cells?
>
> No.
Whether inflammatory cytokines can effect stress hormones levels or
vice versa?
> <snip>
>
> > Can't some cases of persistent hyperglycemia serve an alternative to
> > stored glucose which may be meant for immediate need of more glucose,
> > if due to any disorder, body can't use stored glucose/energy as
> > glycogen, VAT or SAT ?
>
> No. Persistent hyperglycemia is harmful.
Yes, but more insulin may effect use of energy stores?
> <snip>
>
> > > It is wiser to befriend the hunger that arises from eating less.
> >
> > Yes, that can be natural and best mechanism, but I am also trying to
> > understand other alternatives and realites behind IR and how it is
> > handled commonly.
> >
> > Whether stress oriented flight and fight response, while encouraging
> > hyperglycemia, also encourage additional food need or additional
> > energy to fight or flight?
>
> Immediate needs are already addressed by the hyperglycemia. There are
> considerable time delays before eaten food becomes available for tissue
> needs because digestion and absorption takes time especially if blood
> flow has been diverted from the digestive tract to muscles as is the
> case with sympathetic stimulation arising from the "fight or flight"
> response.
Can't this be to fill gap of energy created from use of previous
hyperglycemia or from enegy stores?
Pls tell me, how stress in few people increases appetite whereas
decreses in others?
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > Kumar wrote:
> > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > Kumar wrote:
> > <snip>
> > > > >
> > > > > Three alt. healing agents indicated for, one causing relaxed conditions
> > > > > or reversing contracted conditions of muscles or causing
> > > > > vasodilation(Mg based) instantly relieve excessive gas but with bad
> > > > > smell in intestines whereas other ( iron and Ca based) relieving from
> > > > > prolonged relaxed conditions or causing vasoconstrictions cause
> > > > > excessive gas but with no stool odour and unclear motions(not
> > > > > constipation).
> > > > >
> > > > > However, that was different question. I want to know simultanious
> > > > > dilation and constriction at different part of body under same
> > > > > influence/stimuli.
> > > >
> > > > I do not have a working familiarity with the "healing agents" you are
> > > > using.
> > >
> > > These just increase bio-avalability or bio-usefulness of otherwise
> > > instable or accumulated Mg, Fe, Ca and P (may be F also).
> >
> > These elements are neither unstable nor nonbioavailable in the foods
> > normally eaten.
> Can't there be some disorders related to imbalances or to accumulations
> in these?
Iron overload is harmful.
VAT is simply harmful. There is no benefit from having VAT.
> > > Can't IR mediated by inflammatory cytokines released from VAT are meant
> > > for controlling glucose and fats uptake into just adipose tissues and
> > > not into muscle cells?
> >
> > No.
>
> Whether inflammatory cytokines can effect stress hormones levels or
> vice versa?
No.
> > <snip>
> >
> > > Can't some cases of persistent hyperglycemia serve an alternative to
> > > stored glucose which may be meant for immediate need of more glucose,
> > > if due to any disorder, body can't use stored glucose/energy as
> > > glycogen, VAT or SAT ?
> >
> > No. Persistent hyperglycemia is harmful.
>
> Yes, but more insulin may effect use of energy stores?
The purpose of insulin is for preventing persistent hyperglycemia.
> > <snip>
> >
> > > > It is wiser to befriend the hunger that arises from eating less.
> > >
> > > Yes, that can be natural and best mechanism, but I am also trying to
> > > understand other alternatives and realites behind IR and how it is
> > > handled commonly.
> > >
> > > Whether stress oriented flight and fight response, while encouraging
> > > hyperglycemia, also encourage additional food need or additional
> > > energy to fight or flight?
> >
> > Immediate needs are already addressed by the hyperglycemia. There are
> > considerable time delays before eaten food becomes available for tissue
> > needs because digestion and absorption takes time especially if blood
> > flow has been diverted from the digestive tract to muscles as is the
> > case with sympathetic stimulation arising from the "fight or flight"
> > response.
>
> Can't this be to fill gap of energy created from use of previous
> hyperglycemia or from enegy stores?
No.
> Pls tell me, how stress in few people increases appetite whereas
> decreses in others?
Wiser to befriend hunger and not concern yourself with how you have
become hungrier. GOD gave you your specific personality type just as
HE gave you your parents.
Kumar
Yes, therefore those healing agents. They just stimulate the effects
caused by these minerals which was previously immobile.> > > <snip>
Is it greater visceral adiposity or any amount of of it?
> > > > Can't IR mediated by inflammatory cytokines released from VAT are meant
> > > > for controlling glucose and fats uptake into just adipose tissues and
> > > > not into muscle cells?
> > >
> > > No.
> >
> > Whether inflammatory cytokines can effect stress hormones levels or
> > vice versa?
>
> No.
Whether inflammation is a stress or not?
> > > <snip>
> > >
> > > > Can't some cases of persistent hyperglycemia serve an alternative to
> > > > stored glucose which may be meant for immediate need of more glucose,
> > > > if due to any disorder, body can't use stored glucose/energy as
> > > > glycogen, VAT or SAT ?
> > >
> > > No. Persistent hyperglycemia is harmful.
> >
> > Yes, but more insulin may effect use of energy stores?
>
> The purpose of insulin is for preventing persistent hyperglycemia.
Still, more and persistance of it can resist use of energy stores.
> > > <snip>
> > >
> > > > > It is wiser to befriend the hunger that arises from eating less.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, that can be natural and best mechanism, but I am also trying to
> > > > understand other alternatives and realites behind IR and how it is
> > > > handled commonly.
> > > >
> > > > Whether stress oriented flight and fight response, while encouraging
> > > > hyperglycemia, also encourage additional food need or additional
> > > > energy to fight or flight?
> > >
> > > Immediate needs are already addressed by the hyperglycemia. There are
> > > considerable time delays before eaten food becomes available for tissue
> > > needs because digestion and absorption takes time especially if blood
> > > flow has been diverted from the digestive tract to muscles as is the
> > > case with sympathetic stimulation arising from the "fight or flight"
> > > response.
> >
> > Can't this be to fill gap of energy created from use of previous
> > hyperglycemia or from enegy stores?
>
> No.
Whether atonomus nervous system, due to some persistent need or
disorder, can cause increase in hunger/craving/appetite?
> > Pls tell me, how stress in few people increases appetite whereas
> > decreses in others?
>
> Wiser to befriend hunger and not concern yourself with how you have
> become hungrier. GOD gave you your specific personality type just as
> HE gave you your parents.
Yes, that is best but I am thinking continiously two types of
personalities as you told in "Stress tolernce" topic. Can those be
related to sympathetic and parasympathic types?
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
That does not make sense.
Any amount of it.
> > > > > Can't IR mediated by inflammatory cytokines released from VAT are meant
> > > > > for controlling glucose and fats uptake into just adipose tissues and
> > > > > not into muscle cells?
> > > >
> > > > No.
> > >
> > > Whether inflammatory cytokines can effect stress hormones levels or
> > > vice versa?
> >
> > No.
>
> Whether inflammation is a stress or not?
Not.
> > > > <snip>
> > > >
> > > > > Can't some cases of persistent hyperglycemia serve an alternative to
> > > > > stored glucose which may be meant for immediate need of more glucose,
> > > > > if due to any disorder, body can't use stored glucose/energy as
> > > > > glycogen, VAT or SAT ?
> > > >
> > > > No. Persistent hyperglycemia is harmful.
> > >
> > > Yes, but more insulin may effect use of energy stores?
> >
> > The purpose of insulin is for preventing persistent hyperglycemia.
>
> Still, more and persistance of it can resist use of energy stores.
Again, insulin does not regulate energy storage.
> > > > <snip>
> > > >
> > > > > > It is wiser to befriend the hunger that arises from eating less.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, that can be natural and best mechanism, but I am also trying to
> > > > > understand other alternatives and realites behind IR and how it is
> > > > > handled commonly.
> > > > >
> > > > > Whether stress oriented flight and fight response, while encouraging
> > > > > hyperglycemia, also encourage additional food need or additional
> > > > > energy to fight or flight?
> > > >
> > > > Immediate needs are already addressed by the hyperglycemia. There are
> > > > considerable time delays before eaten food becomes available for tissue
> > > > needs because digestion and absorption takes time especially if blood
> > > > flow has been diverted from the digestive tract to muscles as is the
> > > > case with sympathetic stimulation arising from the "fight or flight"
> > > > response.
> > >
> > > Can't this be to fill gap of energy created from use of previous
> > > hyperglycemia or from enegy stores?
> >
> > No.
>
> Whether atonomus nervous system, due to some persistent need or
> disorder, can cause increase in hunger/craving/appetite?
In truth, hunger/craving/appetite is a symptom indicating wellness and
not disease.
> > > Pls tell me, how stress in few people increases appetite whereas
> > > decreses in others?
> >
> > Wiser to befriend hunger and not concern yourself with how you have
> > become hungrier. GOD gave you your specific personality type just as
> > HE gave you your parents.
>
> Yes, that is best but I am thinking continiously two types of
> personalities as you told in "Stress tolernce" topic. Can those be
> related to sympathetic and parasympathic types?
No.
May GOD continue to heal your heart by curing your diabetes dear
Kumar
Yes, those are yet pseudoscientific but in experiance effective. May be
mostly on one GOOD AND VALID DAY, those may complete medical''s
understandings. We can both be effected and cured by energetic and
chemical involvements alike sprituals and science.
Thanks. Means, VAT has no useful purpose?
> > > > > > Can't IR mediated by inflammatory cytokines released from VAT are meant
> > > > > > for controlling glucose and fats uptake into just adipose tissues and
> > > > > > not into muscle cells?
> > > > >
> > > > > No.
> > > >
> > > > Whether inflammatory cytokines can effect stress hormones levels or
> > > > vice versa?
> > >
> > > No.
> >
> > Whether inflammation is a stress or not?
>
> Not.
Can't any overload or abnormal exposure cause stress?
> > > > > <snip>
> > > > >
> > > > > > Can't some cases of persistent hyperglycemia serve an alternative to
> > > > > > stored glucose which may be meant for immediate need of more glucose,
> > > > > > if due to any disorder, body can't use stored glucose/energy as
> > > > > > glycogen, VAT or SAT ?
> > > > >
> > > > > No. Persistent hyperglycemia is harmful.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, but more insulin may effect use of energy stores?
> > >
> > > The purpose of insulin is for preventing persistent hyperglycemia.
> >
> > Still, more and persistance of it can resist use of energy stores.
>
> Again, insulin does not regulate energy storage.
Can't it interefere in break-down of energy storages?
> > > > > <snip>
> > > > >
> > > > > > > It is wiser to befriend the hunger that arises from eating less.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, that can be natural and best mechanism, but I am also trying to
> > > > > > understand other alternatives and realites behind IR and how it is
> > > > > > handled commonly.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Whether stress oriented flight and fight response, while encouraging
> > > > > > hyperglycemia, also encourage additional food need or additional
> > > > > > energy to fight or flight?
> > > > >
> > > > > Immediate needs are already addressed by the hyperglycemia. There are
> > > > > considerable time delays before eaten food becomes available for tissue
> > > > > needs because digestion and absorption takes time especially if blood
> > > > > flow has been diverted from the digestive tract to muscles as is the
> > > > > case with sympathetic stimulation arising from the "fight or flight"
> > > > > response.
> > > >
> > > > Can't this be to fill gap of energy created from use of previous
> > > > hyperglycemia or from enegy stores?
> > >
> > > No.
> >
> > Whether atonomus nervous system, due to some persistent need or
> > disorder, can cause increase in hunger/craving/appetite?
>
> In truth, hunger/craving/appetite is a symptom indicating wellness and
> not disease.
There can be two types. One hunger/craving/appetite/intake due to real
need when sustances are really defficient in body, other apperant
defficiency-- when those are not defficient but not available for
proper use due to any disorder alike
IR/tolerances/addictions/dependances/resistances/genetic causes.
Anyway, pls tell if, atonomus nervous system has some role in causing
hunger/craving/appetite/excessive intake?
> > > > Pls tell me, how stress in few people increases appetite whereas
> > > > decreses in others?
> > >
> > > Wiser to befriend hunger and not concern yourself with how you have
> > > become hungrier. GOD gave you your specific personality type just as
> > > HE gave you your parents.
> >
> > Yes, that is best but I am thinking continiously two types of
> > personalities as you told in "Stress tolernce" topic. Can those be
> > related to sympathetic and parasympathic types?
>
> No.
Pls evaulate again in view of new mentioning in this post.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Yes.
> > > > > > > Can't IR mediated by inflammatory cytokines released from VAT are meant
> > > > > > > for controlling glucose and fats uptake into just adipose tissues and
> > > > > > > not into muscle cells?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No.
> > > > >
> > > > > Whether inflammatory cytokines can effect stress hormones levels or
> > > > > vice versa?
> > > >
> > > > No.
> > >
> > > Whether inflammation is a stress or not?
> >
> > Not.
>
> Can't any overload or abnormal exposure cause stress?
No.
> > > > > > <snip>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Can't some cases of persistent hyperglycemia serve an alternative to
> > > > > > > stored glucose which may be meant for immediate need of more glucose,
> > > > > > > if due to any disorder, body can't use stored glucose/energy as
> > > > > > > glycogen, VAT or SAT ?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No. Persistent hyperglycemia is harmful.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, but more insulin may effect use of energy stores?
> > > >
> > > > The purpose of insulin is for preventing persistent hyperglycemia.
> > >
> > > Still, more and persistance of it can resist use of energy stores.
> >
> > Again, insulin does not regulate energy storage.
>
> Can't it interefere in break-down of energy storages?
Insulin is simply a cog on a gear.
Hunger/craving/appetite for food is never pathological but quite
normal.
Anorexia (loss of appetite) is pathological.
> Anyway, pls tell if, atonomus nervous system has some role in causing
> hunger/craving/appetite/excessive intake?
The reason fo excessive intake is the irrational fear of hunger within
folks who have been brainwashed.
> > > > > Pls tell me, how stress in few people increases appetite whereas
> > > > > decreses in others?
> > > >
> > > > Wiser to befriend hunger and not concern yourself with how you have
> > > > become hungrier. GOD gave you your specific personality type just as
> > > > HE gave you your parents.
> > >
> > > Yes, that is best but I am thinking continiously two types of
> > > personalities as you told in "Stress tolernce" topic. Can those be
> > > related to sympathetic and parasympathic types?
> >
> > No.
>
> Pls evaulate again in view of new mentioning in this post.
Still no.
Kumar
Suppose some pressure or irritation is there on any organ, whether VAT
cab meant to insulate and protect that organ?
> > > > > > > > Can't IR mediated by inflammatory cytokines released from VAT are meant
> > > > > > > > for controlling glucose and fats uptake into just adipose tissues and
> > > > > > > > not into muscle cells?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > No.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Whether inflammatory cytokines can effect stress hormones levels or
> > > > > > vice versa?
> > > > >
> > > > > No.
> > > >
> > > > Whether inflammation is a stress or not?
> > >
> > > Not.
> >
> > Can't any overload or abnormal exposure cause stress?
>
> No.
Whether persisting pain is a stress?
> > > > > > > <snip>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Can't some cases of persistent hyperglycemia serve an alternative to
> > > > > > > > stored glucose which may be meant for immediate need of more glucose,
> > > > > > > > if due to any disorder, body can't use stored glucose/energy as
> > > > > > > > glycogen, VAT or SAT ?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > No. Persistent hyperglycemia is harmful.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, but more insulin may effect use of energy stores?
> > > > >
> > > > > The purpose of insulin is for preventing persistent hyperglycemia.
> > > >
> > > > Still, more and persistance of it can resist use of energy stores.
> > >
> > > Again, insulin does not regulate energy storage.
> >
> > Can't it interefere in break-down of energy storages?
>
> Insulin is simply a cog on a gear.
But belowmentioned indicated actions indicates it;
" ..Apart from being the primary effector in carbohydrate homeostasis,
it has effects on fat metabolism and it can change the liver's ability
to release fat stores...
Increased glycogen synthesis - insulin forces storage of glucose in
liver (and muscle) cells in the form of glycogen; lowered levels of
insulin cause liver cells to convert glycogen to glucose and excrete it
into the blood. This is the clinical action of insulin which is
directly useful in reducing high blood glucose levels as in diabetes.
Increased fatty acid synthesis - insulin forces fat cells to take in
blood lipids which are converted to triglycerides; lack of insulin
causes the reverse.
Increased esterification of fatty acids - forces adipose tissue to
make fats (ie, triglycerides) from fatty acid esters; lack of insulin
causes the reverse.
Decreased proteinolysis - forces reduction of protein degradation;
lack of insulin increases protein degradation.
Decreased lipolysis - forces reduction in conversion of fat cell
lipid stores into blood fatty acids; lack of insulin causes the
reverse.
Decreased gluconeogenesis - decreases production of glucose from
various substrates in liver; lack of insulin causes glucose production
from assorted substrates in the liver and elsewhere.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin "
If so, then overeating should also be normal, never pathological ?
Why then, there is excessive hunger or cravings in diabetic patients
inspite of hyperglycemia? Such craving and hunger makes a diabetic
patient to eat more and more?
> > Anyway, pls tell if, atonomus nervous system has some role in causing
> > hunger/craving/appetite/excessive intake?
>
> The reason fo excessive intake is the irrational fear of hunger within
> folks who have been brainwashed.
How they are brainwashed? How they got irrational fear of hunger?
> > > > > > Pls tell me, how stress in few people increases appetite whereas
> > > > > > decreses in others?
> > > > >
> > > > > Wiser to befriend hunger and not concern yourself with how you have
> > > > > become hungrier. GOD gave you your specific personality type just as
> > > > > HE gave you your parents.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, that is best but I am thinking continiously two types of
> > > > personalities as you told in "Stress tolernce" topic. Can those be
> > > > related to sympathetic and parasympathic types?
> > >
> > > No.
> >
> > Pls evaulate again in view of new mentioning in this post.
>
> Still no.
Whether neurological system has some role in persisting hyperglycemia?
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
No.
> > > > > > > > > Can't IR mediated by inflammatory cytokines released from VAT are meant
> > > > > > > > > for controlling glucose and fats uptake into just adipose tissues and
> > > > > > > > > not into muscle cells?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > No.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Whether inflammatory cytokines can effect stress hormones levels or
> > > > > > > vice versa?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No.
> > > > >
> > > > > Whether inflammation is a stress or not?
> > > >
> > > > Not.
> > >
> > > Can't any overload or abnormal exposure cause stress?
> >
> > No.
>
> Whether persisting pain is a stress?
Pain is a stress.
Cogs do have purpose.
Overeating is choice and not symptom.
> Why then, there is excessive hunger or cravings in diabetic patients
> inspite of hyperglycemia? Such craving and hunger makes a diabetic
> patient to eat more and more?
The same reason that being stuck with a needle causes extraordinary
pain is someone who fears needles and only a little pain in a surgeon.
> > > Anyway, pls tell if, atonomus nervous system has some role in causing
> > > hunger/craving/appetite/excessive intake?
> >
> > The reason for excessive intake is the irrational fear of hunger within
> > folks who have been brainwashed.
>
> How they are brainwashed?
By an elaborate marketing campaign to get everyone to be afraid of
hunger.
> How they got irrational fear of hunger?
People believe that they will fall ill and die from hunger.
> > > > > > > Pls tell me, how stress in few people increases appetite whereas
> > > > > > > decreses in others?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Wiser to befriend hunger and not concern yourself with how you have
> > > > > > become hungrier. GOD gave you your specific personality type just as
> > > > > > HE gave you your parents.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, that is best but I am thinking continiously two types of
> > > > > personalities as you told in "Stress tolernce" topic. Can those be
> > > > > related to sympathetic and parasympathic types?
> > > >
> > > > No.
> > >
> > > Pls evaulate again in view of new mentioning in this post.
> >
> > Still no.
>
> Whether neurological system has some role in persisting hyperglycemia?
Still no.
May GOD continue to heal your heart by curing your diabetes, dear
Kumar
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> Kumar wrote:
*snip*s
> > > > > > > VAT is simply harmful. There is no benefit from having VAT.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is it greater visceral adiposity or any amount of of it?
> > > > >
> > > > > Any amount of it.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks. Means, VAT has no useful purpose?
> > >
> > > Yes.
> >
> > Suppose some pressure or irritation is there on any organ, whether VAT
> > cab meant to insulate and protect that organ?
>
> No.
>
> > > > > Not.
> > > >
> > > > Can't any overload or abnormal exposure cause stress?
> > >
> > > No.
> >
> > Whether persisting pain is a stress?
>
> Pain is a stress.
Can greater VAT cause visceral pain?
> > > > > > > > > <snip>
Cogs may be helpful to bring car in neutral or reduce its fuel's
burning.
Any undue or harming choice can either be a physiolological or
psychlogical symptom so pathological ? Taking alcohol be a choice but
its addiction is a pathological symptom.
> > Why then, there is excessive hunger or cravings in diabetic patients
> > inspite of hyperglycemia? Such craving and hunger makes a diabetic
> > patient to eat more and more?
>
> The same reason that being stuck with a needle causes extraordinary
> pain is someone who fears needles and only a little pain in a surgeon.
Tolerances, addiction, abnormal habitual effects--means, anything
abnormal is a pathological symptoms. However stress can be due the
difference between imaginations and realities which may be different in
differant people.
> > > > Anyway, pls tell if, atonomus nervous system has some role in causing
> > > > hunger/craving/appetite/excessive intake?
> > >
> > > The reason for excessive intake is the irrational fear of hunger within
> > > folks who have been brainwashed.
> >
> > How they are brainwashed?
>
> By an elaborate marketing campaign to get everyone to be afraid of
> hunger.
Good..... Next..
> > How they got irrational fear of hunger?
>
> People believe that they will fall ill and die from hunger.
I therefore try to look so deeply.
> > > > > > > > Pls tell me, how stress in few people increases appetite whereas
> > > > > > > > decreses in others?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Wiser to befriend hunger and not concern yourself with how you have
> > > > > > > become hungrier. GOD gave you your specific personality type just as
> > > > > > > HE gave you your parents.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, that is best but I am thinking continiously two types of
> > > > > > personalities as you told in "Stress tolernce" topic. Can those be
> > > > > > related to sympathetic and parasympathic types?
> > > > >
> > > > > No.
> > > >
> > > > Pls evaulate again in view of new mentioning in this post.
> > >
> > > Still no.
> >
> > Whether neurological system has some role in persisting hyperglycemia?
>
> Still no.
Suppose if I imagine to be persiting hyperglycemic or make myself
tolerant to hyperglycemia, there may not be a difference in imagined
and real values, so no stress...somewhat alike a medical student
previously knows/imagine, he has to study 12 to 15 hrs daily and
therefore don't get harmful effect due to stress, how such imagination
of reality of hyperglycemia is going to help me?
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > Kumar wrote:
<snip>
> >
> > Pain is a stress.
>
> Can greater VAT cause visceral pain?
No.
<snip>
> > Cogs do have purpose.
>
> Cogs may be helpful to bring car in neutral or reduce its fuel's
> burning.
A single cog of a gear with many cogs has a limited role in steering a
car.
<snip>
> > > If so, then overeating should also be normal, never pathological ?
> >
> > Overeating is choice and not symptom.
>
> Any undue or harming choice can either be a physiolological or
> psychlogical symptom so pathological ?
Still not a symptom but a choice arising from the free will that GOD
has generously given all souls including those belonging to fig trees
(Mark 11:12-14, 20).
> Taking alcohol be a choice but
> its addiction is a pathological symptom.
Addiction is a loss of free will.
> > > Why then, there is excessive hunger or cravings in diabetic patients
> > > inspite of hyperglycemia? Such craving and hunger makes a diabetic
> > > patient to eat more and more?
> >
> > The same reason that being stuck with a needle causes extraordinary
> > pain is someone who fears needles and only a little pain in a surgeon.
>
> Tolerances, addiction, abnormal habitual effects--means, anything
> abnormal is a pathological symptoms. However stress can be due the
> difference between imaginations and realities which may be different in
> differant people.
Incorrect.
> > > > > Anyway, pls tell if, atonomus nervous system has some role in causing
> > > > > hunger/craving/appetite/excessive intake?
> > > >
> > > > The reason for excessive intake is the irrational fear of hunger within
> > > > folks who have been brainwashed.
> > >
> > > How they are brainwashed?
> >
> > By an elaborate marketing campaign to get everyone to be afraid of
> > hunger.
> Good..... Next..
Actually, this is evil.
> > > How they got irrational fear of hunger?
> >
> > People believe that they will fall ill and die from hunger.
>
> I therefore try to look so deeply.
Without GOD, no amount of looking will confer the wisdom that is
required to overcome the delusion.
> > > > > > > > > Pls tell me, how stress in few people increases appetite whereas
> > > > > > > > > decreses in others?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Wiser to befriend hunger and not concern yourself with how you have
> > > > > > > > become hungrier. GOD gave you your specific personality type just as
> > > > > > > > HE gave you your parents.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yes, that is best but I am thinking continiously two types of
> > > > > > > personalities as you told in "Stress tolernce" topic. Can those be
> > > > > > > related to sympathetic and parasympathic types?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No.
> > > > >
> > > > > Pls evaulate again in view of new mentioning in this post.
> > > >
> > > > Still no.
> > >
> > > Whether neurological system has some role in persisting hyperglycemia?
> >
> > Still no.
>
> Suppose if I imagine to be persiting hyperglycemic or make myself
> tolerant to hyperglycemia, there may not be a difference in imagined
> and real values, so no stress...somewhat alike a medical student
> previously knows/imagine, he has to study 12 to 15 hrs daily and
> therefore don't get harmful effect due to stress, how such imagination
> of reality of hyperglycemia is going to help me?
It won't. Only GOD can help you.
Kumar
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> Kumar wrote:
> > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > Kumar wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > >
> > > Pain is a stress.
> >
> > Can greater VAT cause visceral pain?
>
> No.
Do nervous system get signals of presence of greater VAT, If yes, how?
> <snip>
>
> > > Cogs do have purpose.
> >
> > Cogs may be helpful to bring car in neutral or reduce its fuel's
> > burning.
>
> A single cog of a gear with many cogs has a limited role in steering a
> car.
>
> <snip>
In short, it is one thing in car helpful in driving but not everything.
> > > > If so, then overeating should also be normal, never pathological ?
> > >
> > > Overeating is choice and not symptom.
> >
> > Any undue or harming choice can either be a physiolological or
> > psychlogical symptom so pathological ?
>
> Still not a symptom but a choice arising from the free will that GOD
> has generously given all souls including those belonging to fig trees
> (Mark 11:12-14, 20).
>
"Compulsive overeating is characterized by uncontrollable eating and
consequent weight gain. Compulsive overeaters use food as a way to cope
with stress, emotional conflicts and daily problems. The food can block
out feelings and emotions. Compulsive overeaters usually feel out of
control and are aware their eating patterns are abnormal. Like
bulimics, compulsive overeaters do recognize they have a problem.
Compulsive overeating usually starts in early childhood when eating
patterns are formed. Most people who become compulsive eaters are
people who never learned the proper way to deal with stressful
situations and used food instead as a way of coping.
http://www.mirror-mirror.org/compulsive.htm "
"Overeating is a behavior that, while generally not a medical problem,
in some cases is a symptom of binge eating disorder or bulimia. In more
general terms it refers to the persistent consumption of excess food in
relation to the energy that the person expends, leading to weight gain
and often to obesity. This may be a brief or short term process (many
people overindulge generally during festivities or while on holiday) or
a longer term process.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overeating "
"Binge eating disorder
Binge eating disorder is a psychiatric disorder in which a subject:
periodically does not exercise control over consumption of food
eats an unusually large amount of food at one time
eats much more quickly during binge episodes than during normal eating
episodes
eats until physically uncomfortable
eats large amounts of food, even when they are not really hungry
always eats alone during binge eating episodes, in order to avoid
discovery of the disorder
often eats alone during periods of normal eating, owing to feelings of
embarrassment about food
feels disgusted, depressed, or guilty after binge eating
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binge_eating_disorder "
I think, above quotes will clear the issue.
> > Taking alcohol be a choice but
> > its addiction is a pathological symptom.
>
> Addiction is a loss of free will.
Loss of free will can be a sin/symptom.
> > > > Why then, there is excessive hunger or cravings in diabetic patients
> > > > inspite of hyperglycemia? Such craving and hunger makes a diabetic
> > > > patient to eat more and more?
> > >
> > > The same reason that being stuck with a needle causes extraordinary
> > > pain is someone who fears needles and only a little pain in a surgeon.
> >
> > Tolerances, addiction, abnormal habitual effects--means, anything
> > abnormal is a pathological symptoms. However stress can be due the
> > difference between imaginations and realities which may be different in
> > differant people.
>
> Incorrect.
How?
> > > > > > Anyway, pls tell if, atonomus nervous system has some role in causing
> > > > > > hunger/craving/appetite/excessive intake?
> > > > >
> > > > > The reason for excessive intake is the irrational fear of hunger within
> > > > > folks who have been brainwashed.
> > > >
> > > > How they are brainwashed?
> > >
> > > By an elaborate marketing campaign to get everyone to be afraid of
> > > hunger.
>
> > Good..... Next..
>
> Actually, this is evil.
Sorry, I meant, good thoughts see next reply.
> > > > How they got irrational fear of hunger?
> > >
> > > People believe that they will fall ill and die from hunger.
> >
> > I therefore try to look so deeply.
>
> Without GOD, no amount of looking will confer the wisdom that is
> required to overcome the delusion.
With HIS help or By free will?
> > > > > > > > > > Pls tell me, how stress in few people increases appetite whereas
> > > > > > > > > > decreses in others?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Wiser to befriend hunger and not concern yourself with how you have
> > > > > > > > > become hungrier. GOD gave you your specific personality type just as
> > > > > > > > > HE gave you your parents.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Yes, that is best but I am thinking continiously two types of
> > > > > > > > personalities as you told in "Stress tolernce" topic. Can those be
> > > > > > > > related to sympathetic and parasympathic types?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > No.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Pls evaulate again in view of new mentioning in this post.
> > > > >
> > > > > Still no.
> > > >
> > > > Whether neurological system has some role in persisting hyperglycemia?
> > >
> > > Still no.
> >
> > Suppose if I imagine to be persiting hyperglycemic or make myself
> > tolerant to hyperglycemia, there may not be a difference in imagined
> > and real values, so no stress...somewhat alike a medical student
> > previously knows/imagine, he has to study 12 to 15 hrs daily and
> > therefore don't get harmful effect due to stress, how such imagination
> > of reality of hyperglycemia is going to help me?
>
> It won't. Only GOD can help you.
How then this definition of stress can be valid;
"Stress may also be defined as "the sum of physical and mental
responses to an unacceptable disparity between real or imagined
personal experience and personal expectations.By this definition, one
may appreciate that stress is a response which includes both physical
and mental components.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stress_(medicine)"
Otherwise, why students under so much stress, don't go mad?
Yes, HE/Free will may always be needed and with us due to HIS
omnipresence.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > Kumar wrote:
> > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > Kumar wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > > >
> > > > Pain is a stress.
> > >
> > > Can greater VAT cause visceral pain?
> >
> > No.
>
> Do nervous system get signals of presence of greater VAT, If yes, how?
No.
> > <snip>
> >
> > > > Cogs do have purpose.
> > >
> > > Cogs may be helpful to bring car in neutral or reduce its fuel's
> > > burning.
> >
> > A single cog of a gear with many cogs has a limited role in steering a
> > car.
> >
> > <snip>
> In short, it is one thing in car helpful in driving but not everything.
Not even close.
Actually, it doesn't.
> > > Taking alcohol be a choice but
> > > its addiction is a pathological symptom.
> >
> > Addiction is a loss of free will.
>
> Loss of free will can be a sin/symptom.
No. Sin is neither symptom not loss of free will.
Sin is disobeying GOD.
> > > > > Why then, there is excessive hunger or cravings in diabetic patients
> > > > > inspite of hyperglycemia? Such craving and hunger makes a diabetic
> > > > > patient to eat more and more?
> > > >
> > > > The same reason that being stuck with a needle causes extraordinary
> > > > pain is someone who fears needles and only a little pain in a surgeon.
> > >
> > > Tolerances, addiction, abnormal habitual effects--means, anything
> > > abnormal is a pathological symptoms. However stress can be due the
> > > difference between imaginations and realities which may be different in
> > > differant people.
> >
> > Incorrect.
>
> How?
Differences in tolerance is not pathological but expected because GOD
to not make us by using a cookie cutter (i.e. we are not clones).
> > > > > > > Anyway, pls tell if, atonomus nervous system has some role in causing
> > > > > > > hunger/craving/appetite/excessive intake?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The reason for excessive intake is the irrational fear of hunger within
> > > > > > folks who have been brainwashed.
> > > > >
> > > > > How they are brainwashed?
> > > >
> > > > By an elaborate marketing campaign to get everyone to be afraid of
> > > > hunger.
> >
> > > Good..... Next..
> >
> > Actually, this is evil.
>
> Sorry, I meant, good thoughts see next reply.
>
> > > > > How they got irrational fear of hunger?
> > > >
> > > > People believe that they will fall ill and die from hunger.
> > >
> > > I therefore try to look so deeply.
> >
> > Without GOD, no amount of looking will confer the wisdom that is
> > required to overcome the delusion.
>
> With HIS help or By free will?
GOD is the Source of all knowledge and wisdom.
Some do.
> Yes, HE/Free will may always be needed and with us due to HIS
> omnipresence.
GOD is not free will.
Free will is a generous gift from GOD.
Kumar
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> Kumar wrote:
> > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > Kumar wrote:
> > > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > > Kumar wrote:
> > >
> > > <snip>
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Pain is a stress.
> > > >
> > > > Can greater VAT cause visceral pain?
> > >
> > > No.
> >
> > Do nervous system get signals of presence of greater VAT, If yes, how?
>
> No.
I think it will clear; Cortisol is also a stress hormone:-
Higher and more prolonged levels of cortisol in the bloodstream (like
those associated with chronic stress) have been shown to have negative
effects, such as:
...snips*Blood sugar imbalances such as hyperglycemia
Increased abdominal fat, which is associated with a greater amount of
health problems than fat deposited in other areas of the body. Some of
the health problems associated with increased stomach fat are heart
attacks, strokes, the development of , higher levels of "bad"
cholesterol (LDL) and lower levels of "good" cholesterol (HDL),
which can lead to other health problems!
http://stress.about.com/od/stresshealth/a/cortisol.htm "
> > > <snip>
> > >
> > > > > Cogs do have purpose.
> > > >
> > > > Cogs may be helpful to bring car in neutral or reduce its fuel's
> > > > burning.
> > >
> > > A single cog of a gear with many cogs has a limited role in steering a
> > > car.
> > >
> > > <snip>
>
> > In short, it is one thing in car helpful in driving but not everything.
>
> Not even close.
Simple, car can't be run just by cog or steering wheel. Can it?
How?
> > > > Taking alcohol be a choice but
> > > > its addiction is a pathological symptom.
> > >
> > > Addiction is a loss of free will.
> >
> > Loss of free will can be a sin/symptom.
>
> No. Sin is neither symptom not loss of free will.
>
> Sin is disobeying GOD.
Can we netralize previous Sin by good deeds ?
> > > > > > Why then, there is excessive hunger or cravings in diabetic patients
> > > > > > inspite of hyperglycemia? Such craving and hunger makes a diabetic
> > > > > > patient to eat more and more?
> > > > >
> > > > > The same reason that being stuck with a needle causes extraordinary
> > > > > pain is someone who fears needles and only a little pain in a surgeon.
> > > >
> > > > Tolerances, addiction, abnormal habitual effects--means, anything
> > > > abnormal is a pathological symptoms. However stress can be due the
> > > > difference between imaginations and realities which may be different in
> > > > differant people.
> > >
> > > Incorrect.
> >
> > How?
>
> Differences in tolerance is not pathological but expected because GOD
> to not make us by using a cookie cutter (i.e. we are not clones).
Do we treat above?
Not commonly, otherwise such studies would had banned/discontinued?
> > Yes, HE/Free will may always be needed and with us due to HIS
> > omnipresence.
>
> GOD is not free will.
>
> Free will is a generous gift from GOD.
HE and free will. But since HE is omnipresent, HE is always with us.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > Kumar wrote:
> > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > Kumar wrote:
> > > > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > > > Kumar wrote:
> > > >
> > > > <snip>
> > > >
> > > > > > Pain is a stress.
> > > > >
> > > > > Can greater VAT cause visceral pain?
> > > >
> > > > No.
> > >
> > > Do nervous system get signals of presence of greater VAT, If yes, how?
> >
> > No.
>
> I think it will clear; Cortisol is also a stress hormone:-
It is not a neurotransmitter.
> Higher and more prolonged levels of cortisol in the bloodstream (like
> those associated with chronic stress) have been shown to have negative
> effects, such as:
>
> ...snips*Blood sugar imbalances such as hyperglycemia
Depends on the personality.
Those who overeat and gain excessive VAT will start having
hyperglycemia.
Those who lose their appetite will not gain weight and thus will not
have hyperglycemia.
Kumar
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > Samantha Montague wrote:
> > > Hello, I am new to this newsgroup although I am quite familiar with the
> > > internet as I have used it since college. I have been recently diagnosed
> > > with type 2 diabetes and have been given a great deal of information
> > > which I am slowly sifting through. I am told by various sources that
> > > diabetes isn't curable and although they are aware of some contributing
> > > factors, excess weight, hereditary instances, some medications etc etc,
> > > they still aren't really sure what causes it. I have been reading
> > > through this group on google and have noticed that there is a doctor on
> > > here who says that it is curable, but he seems to think that is only so
> > > if the diabetic is over weight. I am not. Are there any other ways, and
> > > is it possible that a healthy non diabetic person can contract diabetes
> > > from close contact with several people who have diabetes?
> > > It concerns me a great deal, both the conflicting advice from
> > > professional sources, and the possibility that I may have caught it from
> > > spending too much time in close contact with diabetics. If that is so,
> > > I am worried about the possibility of passing it on.
> > >
> > > Sam
> >
> > I am sorry to appear so rude as to ask for advice and not respond to all
> > those who went out of their way to offer it, but shortly after posting
> > here I was attacked very violently in a home invasion and was only
> > released from hospital yesterday. I will be in a wheelchair for some
> > weeks and will need to go back into hospital for some operations when
> > the swelling goes down enough for them to be able to operate. They
> > dislocated two joints and the swelling is still very severe, so they
> > can't start repairing tendons or cartilage yet. I am back with my
> > parents now and will probably stay here for a few months until I fully
> > recover. My apartment has been ruined for me and I will have to try to
> > break my lease and find another more secure one when I am able to be on
> > my own again.
>
> Sad to read about this.
Also sad to read about this. May LORD help.
> > I have a new diabetic problem now, for some reason, while I was in
> > hospital my blood sugar has climbed dramatically, it is really high now
> > and they have me on insulin. I am getting headaches whenever it goes
> > really high but I am not sure if that was from the assault or just from
> > the diabetes. I was punched and kicked in my head so it might be from
> > the assault but it is more intense when my sugar is high, it reduces
> > when I get it down. One of the nurses said that some diabetics have
> > higher readings when on morphine as I was for the past week or so. Is
> > this common?
>
> It is common for BG to be difficult to control while in pain.
Is it due to stress?
> > I have read through many of the replies to my original post and thank
> > those people who took the trouble to try to help me.
>
> You are welcome. All thanks and praises belong to GOD Whom I love with
> all my being.
>
> May GOD heal continue to heal our hearts and the rest of us, dear
> neighbor Sam whom I love unconditionally.
>
> Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
>
> Andrew <><
> --
> Andrew B. Chung
> Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
> http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit
>
> As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
> unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies
> (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed?
kumar
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> Kumar wrote:
> > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > Kumar wrote:
> > > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > > Kumar wrote:
> > > > > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > > > > Kumar wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > <snip>
> > > > >
> > > > > > > Pain is a stress.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Can greater VAT cause visceral pain?
> > > > >
> > > > > No.
> > > >
> > > > Do nervous system get signals of presence of greater VAT, If yes, how?
> > >
> > > No.
> >
> > I think it will clear; Cortisol is also a stress hormone:-
>
> It is not a neurotransmitter.
"Cortisol is a corticosteroid hormone produced by the adrenal cortex
that is involved in the response to stress; it increases blood
pressure, blood sugar levels, may cause infertility in women, and
suppresses the immune system. "
> > Higher and more prolonged levels of cortisol in the bloodstream (like
> > those associated with chronic stress) have been shown to have negative
> > effects, such as:
> >
> > ...snips*Blood sugar imbalances such as hyperglycemia
>
> Depends on the personality.
May also depend on any disorder.
> Those who overeat and gain excessive VAT will start having
> hyperglycemia.
>
> Those who lose their appetite will not gain weight and thus will not
> have hyperglycemia.
It may also depend on personality and some disorder
Above two types may also be due to "stress related or autonomic
system's mediated" reasons. Relaxed people may better digest so may
need less, whereas stressed opposite.
Cortisols oversecretion is related to getting VAT, probably it for some
immediate need energy for some anticipated energy.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > Kumar wrote:
> > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > Kumar wrote:
> > > > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > > > Kumar wrote:
> > > > > > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > > > > > Kumar wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > <snip>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Pain is a stress.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Can greater VAT cause visceral pain?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No.
> > > > >
> > > > > Do nervous system get signals of presence of greater VAT, If yes, how?
> > > >
> > > > No.
> > >
> > > I think it will clear; Cortisol is also a stress hormone:-
> >
> > It is not a neurotransmitter.
>
> "Cortisol is a corticosteroid hormone produced by the adrenal cortex
> that is involved in the response to stress; it increases blood
> pressure, blood sugar levels, may cause infertility in women, and
> suppresses the immune system. "
When there is no VAT, the cortisol elevates blood glucose levels only
minimally.
> > > Higher and more prolonged levels of cortisol in the bloodstream (like
> > > those associated with chronic stress) have been shown to have negative
> > > effects, such as:
> > >
> > > ...snips*Blood sugar imbalances such as hyperglycemia
> >
> > Depends on the personality.
>
> May also depend on any disorder.
No.
> > Those who overeat and gain excessive VAT will start having
> > hyperglycemia.
> >
> > Those who lose their appetite will not gain weight and thus will not
> > have hyperglycemia.
>
> It may also depend on personality and some disorder
>
> Above two types may also be due to "stress related or autonomic
> system's mediated" reasons. Relaxed people may better digest so may
> need less, whereas stressed opposite.
>
> Cortisols oversecretion is related to getting VAT, probably it for some
> immediate need energy for some anticipated energy.
No. VAT is the proximate cause of insulin resistance which leads to
the dysregulation of blood glucose levels when cortisol levels are
high.
May GOD continue to heal your heart by curing your diabetes, dear
neighbor Kumar whom I love unconditionally.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung
Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit
As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies
(Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/a77da2d26da0ab97?
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Yes.
May GOD continue to heal you and Sam's heart by curing your diabetes,
dear neighbor Kumar whom I love unconditionally.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung
Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit
As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies
(Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/a77da2d26da0ab97?