Knowing who are the very elect.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> "Linda Lee" <li...@hipstargraphics.com> wrote in message
> >
> H.E. Eickleberry, Jr. wrote:
>
> > P.S. Notice that here where I was talking to a SANE man, David, I call
> > The Acts of John a "Gnostic text".
> >
> > >Then you should have KNOWN that Satan was pulling your chain.
> > >
> > >"...and they shall do signs and wonder such that, if it were possible, they
> > >could deceive the very elect."
> > >
> > >Ike
>
> ===============================================================
>
> Like it says, IF it were possible, but it isn't. I'm glad you at least
> admit I'm among the holier-than-thou elect, Eikenboob. ;-)
In truth, it is not possible to deceive the very elect who are guided
by the Holy Spirit.
As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies.
One example would be Stephen (Acts 7:59-60).
"Those who live by the sword die by the sword." -- LORD Jesus Christ.
Amen !
May GOD help you with your needs, dear sister Linda whom I love.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung
Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit
::: veralein :::
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD <nos...@heartmdphd.com> typed:
> Linda Lee wrote:
>> "Linda Lee" <li...@hipstargraphics.com> wrote in message
>>>
>> H.E. Eickleberry, Jr. wrote:
>>
>>> P.S. Notice that here where I was talking to a SANE man, David, I
>>> call The Acts of John a "Gnostic text".
>>>
>>>> Then you should have KNOWN that Satan was pulling your chain.
>>>>
>>>> "...and they shall do signs and wonder such that, if it were
>>>> possible, they could deceive the very elect."
>>>>
>>>> Ike
>>
>> ===============================================================
>>
>> Like it says, IF it were possible, but it isn't. I'm glad you at
>> least admit I'm among the holier-than-thou elect, Eikenboob. ;-)
>
> In truth, it is not possible to deceive the very elect who are guided
> by the Holy Spirit.
>
> As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
> unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies.
Sorry, Andrew, but that is not Scriptural. Though we shall love our
enemies, there is no word in Scripture that says we have to show it to
others, and that people could know from this that we are the elect.
Scripture only speaks of the love we have for one another in this
context. Scripture also even emphasises that we should keep our "love"
for the enemy secret:
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
"Be careful that you don't do your charitable giving before men, to be
seen by them, or else you have no reward from your Father who is in
heaven. Therefore when you do merciful deeds, don't sound a trumpet
before yourself, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the
streets, that they may get glory from men. Most assuredly I tell you,
they have received their reward. But when you do merciful deeds, don't
let your left hand know what your right hand does, so that your merciful
deeds may be in secret, then your Father who sees in secret will reward
you openly.
(Matthew 6:1-4 WEB)
<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
Maybe you mean "kindness" as a fruit of the Spirit?
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness,
goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such
things there is no law. (Galatians 5:22-23 WEB)
<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
This should be shown to everyone if possible and depending on us, of
course, and it is indeed Scriptural that people are known by their
fruits. But we are warned:
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
Let no one deceive you with empty words.
For because of these things, the wrath of God comes on the children of
disobedience.
Therefore don't be partakers with them.
For you were once darkness, but are now light in the Lord. Walk as
children of light, for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and
righteousness and truth, proving what is well-pleasing to the Lord.
Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather
even reprove them.
(Ephesians 5:6-11 WEB)
<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
We are to give information to those who ask us:
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts; and always be ready to give an
answer to everyone who asks you a reason concerning the hope that is in
you, with humility and fear: having a good conscience; that, while you
are spoken against as evildoers, they may be disappointed who revile
your good manner of life in Christ.
(1 Peter 3:15-16 WEB)
<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
> One example would be Stephen (Acts 7:59-60).
But of course we shall pray for everybody, and, what is even more
important, is that we should not leave this world with grudges against
others. Jesus and Stephen said the same in their last hours. It means
"forgiveness" - but it was surely not meant as a show for others, though
it can be impressive.
> "Those who live by the sword die by the sword." -- LORD Jesus Christ.
This was not meant metaphorically, but literally. Peter had drawn his
(real) sword and cut a soldier's (real) ear off. Metaphorically we are
to wear the sword, namely the Word of God, which is clearly defined
there:
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
Therefore, put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to
withstand in the evil day, and, having done all, to stand. Stand
therefore, having the utility belt of truth buckled around your waist,
and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, and having fitted
your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; above all, taking
up the shield of faith, with which you will be able to quench all the
fiery darts of the evil one. And take the helmet of salvation, *and the
sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God*; with all prayer and
requests, praying at all times in the Spirit, and being watchful to this
end in all perseverance and requests for all the saints: on my behalf,
that utterance may be given to me in opening my mouth, to make known
with boldness the mystery of the gospel, for which I am an ambassador in
chains; that in it I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak. (Ephesians
6:13-20 WEB)
<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
> Amen !
>
> May GOD help you with your needs, dear sister Linda whom I love.
>
> Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
>
> Andrew <><
> --
> Andrew B. Chung
> Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
> http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit
Be blessed,
::: vera :::
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
Peace I leave with you, My peace I give to you. Not as the world gives
do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be
afraid. (John 14:27 MKJV)
<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
--
___________________________________________________
::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::::::
::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::::::
::::::: http://www.e-sword.net :::::::
::::::: http://alpha.org/default.asp :::::::
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> In news:1156071865.2...@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com,
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD <nos...@heartmdphd.com> typed:
> > Linda Lee wrote:
> >> "Linda Lee" <li...@hipstargraphics.com> wrote in message
> >>>
> >> H.E. Eickleberry, Jr. wrote:
> >>
> >>> P.S. Notice that here where I was talking to a SANE man, David, I
> >>> call The Acts of John a "Gnostic text".
> >>>
> >>>> Then you should have KNOWN that Satan was pulling your chain.
> >>>>
> >>>> "...and they shall do signs and wonder such that, if it were
> >>>> possible, they could deceive the very elect."
> >>>>
> >>>> Ike
> >>
> >> ===============================================================
> >>
> >> Like it says, IF it were possible, but it isn't. I'm glad you at
> >> least admit I'm among the holier-than-thou elect, Eikenboob. ;-)
> >
> > In truth, it is not possible to deceive the very elect who are guided
> > by the Holy Spirit.
> >
> > As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
> > unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies.
>
> Sorry, Andrew, but that is not Scriptural.
Actually, it is.
> Though we shall love our
> enemies, there is no word in Scripture that says we have to show it to
> others
What is faith without works ?
Dead (James 2:14-17).
What is works without love ?
Nothing (1 Corinthians 13:3).
>, and that people could know from this that we are the elect.
> Scripture only speaks of the love we have for one another in this
> context. Scripture also even emphasises that we should keep our "love"
> for the enemy secret:
>
> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
> "Be careful that you don't do your charitable giving before men, to be
> seen by them, or else you have no reward from your Father who is in
> heaven. Therefore when you do merciful deeds, don't sound a trumpet
> before yourself, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the
> streets, that they may get glory from men. Most assuredly I tell you,
> they have received their reward. But when you do merciful deeds, don't
> let your left hand know what your right hand does, so that your merciful
> deeds may be in secret, then your Father who sees in secret will reward
> you openly.
> (Matthew 6:1-4 WEB)
Nothing about loving enemies here.
> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
>
> Maybe you mean "kindness" as a fruit of the Spirit?
>
> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
> But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness,
> goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such
> things there is no law. (Galatians 5:22-23 WEB)
Love is kind (1 Corinthians 13:4).
> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
>
> This should be shown to everyone if possible and depending on us, of
> course, and it is indeed Scriptural that people are known by their
> fruits. But we are warned:
>
> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
> Let no one deceive you with empty words.
> For because of these things, the wrath of God comes on the children of
> disobedience.
> Therefore don't be partakers with them.
> For you were once darkness, but are now light in the Lord. Walk as
> children of light, for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and
> righteousness and truth, proving what is well-pleasing to the Lord.
> Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather
> even reprove them.
> (Ephesians 5:6-11 WEB)
Words from the Holy Spirit are not empty.
Most assuredly without doubt, the Holy Spirit continues to guide me in
everything I say, do, and write.
> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
>
> We are to give information to those who ask us:
>
> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
> But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts; and always be ready to give an
> answer to everyone who asks you a reason concerning the hope that is in
> you, with humility and fear: having a good conscience; that, while you
> are spoken against as evildoers, they may be disappointed who revile
> your good manner of life in Christ.
> (1 Peter 3:15-16 WEB)
The Holy Spirit continues to guide me in my answers to others including
to those who hate me.
> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
>
> > One example would be Stephen (Acts 7:59-60).
>
> But of course we shall pray for everybody, and, what is even more
> important, is that we should not leave this world with grudges against
> others. Jesus and Stephen said the same in their last hours. It means
> "forgiveness" - but it was surely not meant as a show for others, though
> it can be impressive.
Amen.
> > "Those who live by the sword die by the sword." -- LORD Jesus Christ.
>
> This was not meant metaphorically, but literally.
Please know in your heart as I know in mine that our LORD meant for
this to have meaning on many levels.
> Peter had drawn his
> (real) sword and cut a soldier's (real) ear off. Metaphorically we are
> to wear the sword, namely the Word of God, which is clearly defined
> there:
>
> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
> Therefore, put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to
> withstand in the evil day, and, having done all, to stand. Stand
> therefore, having the utility belt of truth buckled around your waist,
> and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, and having fitted
> your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; above all, taking
> up the shield of faith, with which you will be able to quench all the
> fiery darts of the evil one. And take the helmet of salvation, *and the
> sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God*; with all prayer and
> requests, praying at all times in the Spirit, and being watchful to this
> end in all perseverance and requests for all the saints: on my behalf,
> that utterance may be given to me in opening my mouth, to make known
> with boldness the mystery of the gospel, for which I am an ambassador in
> chains; that in it I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak. (Ephesians
> 6:13-20 WEB)
Indeed, the sword Peter used was the one he carried upon our LORD's
command to carry one.
Again, we are to be HIS swordbearer and not HIS swordpersons. Nowhere
in scripture will you find our LORD issuing the command to brandish any
sword to harm another.
> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
>
> > Amen !
> >
> > May GOD help you with your needs, dear sister Linda whom I love.
> >
> > Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
> >
> > Andrew <><
> > --
> > Andrew B. Chung
> > Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
> > http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit
>
> Be blessed,
>
> ::: vera :::
Et tu.
May GOD continue to show us the way of HIS love, which is the living
water that HE spoke of to the Samaritan woman by Jacob's well, dear
sister Vera whom I unconditionally love.
Linda Lee
===================================================================
I was joking Andrew. I have no idea who will be the elect, but it's
very likely they will not be Gentile.
I have been thinking about Stephen lately, and his forgiveness of his
own murderers would be hard to emulate. Although I consider all
violence insanity, so recognizing their insanity might cause one to
pity them, especially since they ultimately hurt themselves more by
committing such an act.
Yeshuwa` bless you too, Andrew.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
GOD's will be done and not our will.
> I have been thinking about Stephen lately, and his forgiveness of his
> own murderers would be hard to emulate.
"With man this is impossible, but with GOD all things are possible." --
LORD Jesus Christ (Matthew 19:26)
Your thinking about Stephen lately did not happen by chance because
there is no such thing (Proverbs 16:33).
> Although I consider all
> violence insanity, so recognizing their insanity might cause one to
> pity them, especially since they ultimately hurt themselves more by
> committing such an act.
Those with GOD's love in their hearts, find that they are able to
unconditionally love even those who are killing them.
> Yeshuwa` bless you too, Andrew.
Many thanks and praises to GOD for your kind words.
May our LORD's peace be with you, dear sister Linda whom I love
unconditionally.
::: veralein :::
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD <lo...@heartmdphd.com> typed:
>>>> veralein ::: wrote:
>> In news:1156071865.2...@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com,
>> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD <nos...@heartmdphd.com> typed:
>>> Linda Lee wrote:
>>>> "Linda Lee" <li...@hipstargraphics.com> wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>> H.E. Eickleberry, Jr. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> P.S. Notice that here where I was talking to a SANE man, David, I
>>>>> call The Acts of John a "Gnostic text".
>>>>>
>>>>>> Then you should have KNOWN that Satan was pulling your chain.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "...and they shall do signs and wonder such that, if it were
>>>>>> possible, they could deceive the very elect."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ike
>>>>
>>>> ===============================================================
>>>>
>>>> Like it says, IF it were possible, but it isn't. I'm glad you at
>>>> least admit I'm among the holier-than-thou elect, Eikenboob. ;-)
>>>
>>> In truth, it is not possible to deceive the very elect who are
>>> guided by the Holy Spirit.
>>>
>>> As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
>>> unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies.
>>
>> Sorry, Andrew, but that is not Scriptural.
>
> Actually, it is.
No, it is not.
>> Though we shall love our
>> enemies, there is no word in Scripture that says we have to show it
>> to others
>
> What is faith without works ?
>
> Dead (James 2:14-17).
Nothing about loving enemies here.
> What is works without love ?
>
> Nothing (1 Corinthians 13:3).
Nothing about loving enemies here.
>> , and that people could know from this that we are the elect.
>> Scripture only speaks of the love we have for one another in this
>> context. Scripture also even emphasises that we should keep our
>> "love" for the enemy secret:
>>
>>> <> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
>> "Be careful that you don't do your charitable giving before men, to
>> be seen by them, or else you have no reward from your Father who is
>> in heaven. Therefore when you do merciful deeds, don't sound a
>> trumpet before yourself, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and
>> in the streets, that they may get glory from men. Most assuredly I
>> tell you, they have received their reward. But when you do merciful
>> deeds, don't let your left hand know what your right hand does, so
>> that your merciful deeds may be in secret, then your Father who sees
>> in secret will reward you openly.
>> (Matthew 6:1-4 WEB)
>
> Nothing about loving enemies here.
:-)
What else is love but care?
>> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
>>
>> Maybe you mean "kindness" as a fruit of the Spirit?
>>
>>> <> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
>> But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness,
>> goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such
>> things there is no law. (Galatians 5:22-23 WEB)
>
> Love is kind (1 Corinthians 13:4).
:-)
Yes, love is kind.
But that does not say that *others see we belong to God* by our being
kind to enemies.
>> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
>>
>> This should be shown to everyone if possible and depending on us, of
>> course, and it is indeed Scriptural that people are known by their
>> fruits. But we are warned:
>>
>>> <> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
>> Let no one deceive you with empty words.
>> For because of these things, the wrath of God comes on the children
>> of disobedience.
>> Therefore don't be partakers with them.
>> For you were once darkness, but are now light in the Lord. Walk as
>> children of light, for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and
>> righteousness and truth, proving what is well-pleasing to the Lord.
>> Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather
>> even reprove them.
>> (Ephesians 5:6-11 WEB)
>
> Words from the Holy Spirit are not empty.
Pardon? What does that have to do with the verses I quoted? They say
that we have to reprove and have no fellowship with the darkness. The
darkness has no words from the Holy Spirit.
Andrew, what is wrong with you?
> Most assuredly without doubt, the Holy Spirit continues to guide me in
> everything I say, do, and write.
Not everything might be from the Holy Spirit all the time, Andrew. You
are now flying as high as Michael Christ and think you do not need
correction. Yet you admitted of being wrong in the other thread. You
made a mistake, so you should come down again. The Lord does not really
love it if people think they know better than Him.
>> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
>>
>> We are to give information to those who ask us:
>>
>>> <> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
>> But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts; and always be ready to
>> give an answer to everyone who asks you a reason concerning the hope
>> that is in you, with humility and fear: having a good conscience;
>> that, while you are spoken against as evildoers, they may be
>> disappointed who revile your good manner of life in Christ.
>> (1 Peter 3:15-16 WEB)
>
> The Holy Spirit continues to guide me in my answers to others
> including to those who hate me.
You can ask God for that, that is all you can. You depend completely on
Him. Andrew, come down from there, or you might fall down very deeply.
>> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
>>
>>> One example would be Stephen (Acts 7:59-60).
>>
>> But of course we shall pray for everybody, and, what is even more
>> important, is that we should not leave this world with grudges
>> against others. Jesus and Stephen said the same in their last hours.
>> It means "forgiveness" - but it was surely not meant as a show for
>> others, though it can be impressive.
>
> Amen.
Good that we can agree there. And neither Jesus nor Stephen spoke kindly
there to their murderers, nor did they fellowship with them. Their
"love" for the enemy was asking God for forgiveness, that is prayer for
them. It did not mean what you suggested above, namely that others can
see we belong to God by our love we have for our enemies. Asking God to
forgive our enemies can very well be in secret, and so it does not say
much to others about our relation to God and if we belong to him. Loving
the enemy does not have to be seen by others, that is what it says.
>>> "Those who live by the sword die by the sword." -- LORD Jesus
>>> Christ.
>>
>> This was not meant metaphorically, but literally.
>
> Please know in your heart as I know in mine that our LORD meant for
> this to have meaning on many levels.
Oh, if I started with that, there would soon not much be left of God's
Word. Sometimes we have to fight. Sometimes the Lord even gives some of
us golden swords to fight with, provided it is the Gospel we are
fighting for.
>> Peter had drawn his
>> (real) sword and cut a soldier's (real) ear off. Metaphorically we
>> are to wear the sword, namely the Word of God, which is clearly
>> defined there:
>>
>>> <> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
>> Therefore, put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to
>> withstand in the evil day, and, having done all, to stand. Stand
>> therefore, having the utility belt of truth buckled around your
>> waist, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, and
>> having fitted your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
>> above all, taking up the shield of faith, with which you will be
>> able to quench all the fiery darts of the evil one. And take the
>> helmet of salvation, *and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word
>> of God*; with all prayer and requests, praying at all times in the
>> Spirit, and being watchful to this end in all perseverance and
>> requests for all the saints: on my behalf, that utterance may be
>> given to me in opening my mouth, to make known with boldness the
>> mystery of the gospel, for which I am an ambassador in chains; that
>> in it I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak. (Ephesians 6:13-20
>> WEB)
>
> Indeed, the sword Peter used was the one he carried upon our LORD's
> command to carry one.
>
> Again, we are to be HIS swordbearer and not HIS swordpersons. Nowhere
> in scripture will you find our LORD issuing the command to brandish
> any sword to harm another.
Oh dear - now you come out with it... Who has ever spoken of using a
sword "to harm another"??? It was not me, and the only one harmed there
was me whom you rebuked to wear a sword, while MC used insults and the
like to harm me and my reputation, and not only since a few weeks. Yet
you blamed that "sword" on me. I know you apologised, but what shall I
get from what you have just written there? Where have I ever used a
"sword to harm others", or where would I ever have suggested that? In
fact, you are harming me by suggesting I had.
>> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
>>
>>> Amen !
>>>
>>> May GOD help you with your needs, dear sister Linda whom I love.
>>>
>>> Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
>>>
>>> Andrew <><
>>> --
>>> Andrew B. Chung
>>> Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
>>> http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit
>>
>> Be blessed,
>>
>> ::: vera :::
>
> Et tu.
>
> May GOD continue to show us the way of HIS love, which is the living
> water that HE spoke of to the Samaritan woman by Jacob's well, dear
> sister Vera whom I unconditionally love.
>
> Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
>
> Andrew <><
> --
> Andrew B. Chung
> Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
> http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit
::: vera :::
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
See below.
> >> Though we shall love our
> >> enemies, there is no word in Scripture that says we have to show it
> >> to others
> >
> > What is faith without works ?
> >
> > Dead (James 2:14-17).
>
> Nothing about loving enemies here.
Correct. However, you have already written that "we shall love our
enemies."
> > What is works without love ?
> >
> > Nothing (1 Corinthians 13:3).
>
> Nothing about loving enemies here.
Correct. However, you have already written the "we shall love our
enemies."
"But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute
you, that may be sons of your Father in heaven." -- LORD Jesus Christ
(Matthew 5:44-45)
> >> , and that people could know from this that we are the elect.
> >> Scripture only speaks of the love we have for one another in this
> >> context. Scripture also even emphasises that we should keep our
> >> "love" for the enemy secret:
> >>
> >>> <> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
> >> "Be careful that you don't do your charitable giving before men, to
> >> be seen by them, or else you have no reward from your Father who is
> >> in heaven. Therefore when you do merciful deeds, don't sound a
> >> trumpet before yourself, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and
> >> in the streets, that they may get glory from men. Most assuredly I
> >> tell you, they have received their reward. But when you do merciful
> >> deeds, don't let your left hand know what your right hand does, so
> >> that your merciful deeds may be in secret, then your Father who sees
> >> in secret will reward you openly.
> >> (Matthew 6:1-4 WEB)
> >
> > Nothing about loving enemies here.
>
> :-)
>
> What else is love but care?
Love is more than care.
As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies
(Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).
> >> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
> >>
> >> Maybe you mean "kindness" as a fruit of the Spirit?
> >>
> >>> <> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
> >> But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness,
> >> goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such
> >> things there is no law. (Galatians 5:22-23 WEB)
> >
> > Love is kind (1 Corinthians 13:4).
>
> :-)
>
> Yes, love is kind.
>
> But that does not say that *others see we belong to God* by our being
> kind to enemies.
This understanding comes from understanding all of Scripture.
> >> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
> >>
> >> This should be shown to everyone if possible and depending on us, of
> >> course, and it is indeed Scriptural that people are known by their
> >> fruits. But we are warned:
> >>
> >>> <> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
> >> Let no one deceive you with empty words.
> >> For because of these things, the wrath of God comes on the children
> >> of disobedience.
> >> Therefore don't be partakers with them.
> >> For you were once darkness, but are now light in the Lord. Walk as
> >> children of light, for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and
> >> righteousness and truth, proving what is well-pleasing to the Lord.
> >> Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather
> >> even reprove them.
> >> (Ephesians 5:6-11 WEB)
> >
> > Words from the Holy Spirit are not empty.
>
> Pardon? What does that have to do with the verses I quoted?
"Let no one deceive you with empty words."
> They say
> that we have to reprove and have no fellowship with the darkness. The
> darkness has no words from the Holy Spirit.
Correct.
> Andrew, what is wrong with you?
Don't know how to answer that because I am not receiving any guidance
from the Holy Spirit on how to answer you.
> > Most assuredly without doubt, the Holy Spirit continues to guide me in
> > everything I say, do, and write.
>
> Not everything might be from the Holy Spirit all the time, Andrew.
Correct.
> You
> are now flying as high as Michael Christ and think you do not need
> correction.
In truth, I know I need GOD's guidance and correction.
> Yet you admitted of being wrong in the other thread.
Yes.
>You
> made a mistake, so you should come down again.
It remains my choice to die to self daily.
> Te Lord does not really
> love it if people think they know better than Him.
Correct.
> >> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
> >>
> >> We are to give information to those who ask us:
> >>
> >>> <> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
> >> But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts; and always be ready to
> >> give an answer to everyone who asks you a reason concerning the hope
> >> that is in you, with humility and fear: having a good conscience;
> >> that, while you are spoken against as evildoers, they may be
> >> disappointed who revile your good manner of life in Christ.
> >> (1 Peter 3:15-16 WEB)
> >
> > The Holy Spirit continues to guide me in my answers to others
> > including to those who hate me.
>
> You can ask God for that, that is all you can. You depend completely on
> Him.
Correct.
> Andrew, come down from there, or you might fall down very deeply.
My feet remain on the ground at the moment.
>
> >> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
> >>
> >>> One example would be Stephen (Acts 7:59-60).
> >>
> >> But of course we shall pray for everybody, and, what is even more
> >> important, is that we should not leave this world with grudges
> >> against others. Jesus and Stephen said the same in their last hours.
> >> It means "forgiveness" - but it was surely not meant as a show for
> >> others, though it can be impressive.
> >
> > Amen.
>
> Good that we can agree there. And neither Jesus nor Stephen spoke kindly
> there to their murderers, nor did they fellowship with them. Their
> "love" for the enemy was asking God for forgiveness, that is prayer for
> them. It did not mean what you suggested above, namely that others can
> see we belong to God by our love we have for our enemies.
Correct.
The purpose of our loving our enemies is to obey HIM and not to glorify
ourselves.
GOD will help us with the former and not the latter purpose.
> Asking God to
> forgive our enemies can very well be in secret, and so it does not say
> much to others about our relation to God and if we belong to him. Loving
> the enemy does not have to be seen by others, that is what it says.
As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies
(Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).
> >>> "Those who live by the sword die by the sword." -- LORD Jesus
> >>> Christ.
> >>
> >> This was not meant metaphorically, but literally.
> >
> > Please know in your heart as I know in mine that our LORD meant for
> > this to have meaning on many levels.
>
> Oh, if I started with that, there would soon not much be left of God's
> Word. Sometimes we have to fight.
Not as those of this world fight... but as HE would have us fight to
persevere in truth and love.
> Sometimes the Lord even gives some of
> us golden swords to fight with, provided it is the Gospel we are
> fighting for.
This is not Scriptural.
In truth, the Holy Spirit compelled me to rebuke **both** of you for
writing hurtful things about each other.
> Yet you blamed that "sword" on me.
In truth, it remains my choice to refrain from judging anyone per the
kind and helpful suggestion of our LORD (Matthew 7:1-2).
> I know you apologised, but what shall I get from what you have just written there?
My unconditional love.
> Where have I ever used a "sword to harm others", or where would I ever have suggested that?
It has been observed that hurtful things were being written on both
sides.
> In fact, you are harming me by suggesting I had.
I am sorry that you are hurt by my asking you to put away your sword.
Please forgive all my iniquities.
> >> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
> >>
> >>> Amen !
> >>>
> >>> May GOD help you with your needs, dear sister Linda whom I love.
> >>>
> >>> Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
> >>>
> >>> Andrew <><
> >>> --
> >>> Andrew B. Chung
> >>> Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
> >>> http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit
> >>
> >> Be blessed,
> >>
> >> ::: vera :::
> >
> > Et tu.
> >
> > May GOD continue to show us the way of HIS love, which is the living
> > water that HE spoke of to the Samaritan woman by Jacob's well, dear
> > sister Vera whom I unconditionally love.
> >
> > Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
> >
> > Andrew <><
> > --
> > Andrew B. Chung
> > Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
> > http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit
>
> ::: vera :::
Your anger at me is forgiven as far as I am concerned though it saddens
me.
May GOD continue to heal our hearts, dear sister Vera, whom I love
unconditionally.
::: veralein :::
Oh, now you rewrite verses yourself...
Let us see if they say might prove anything you claim...
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
But I tell you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to
those who hate you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute
you, (Matthew 5:44 WEB)
<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
That is the only verse you referred to, and it does not say "As for
knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional
love they have for everyone including their enemies".
It just says how we shall treat them, but there is NO WORD that you know
who are the elect by that.
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
If I dole out all my goods to feed the poor, and if I give my body to be
burned, but don't have love, it profits me nothing. (1 Corinthians 13:3
WEB)
<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
That does not say anything about false teachers or enemies at all, or
how to treat enemies, or that one will know the elect "by the
unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies". .
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
What good is it, my brothers, if a man says he has faith, but has no
works? Can that faith save him? And if a brother or sister is naked and
in lack of daily food, and one of you tells them, "Go in peace, be
warmed and filled;" and yet you didn't give them the things the body
needs, what good is it? Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead in
itself. (James 2:14-17 WEB)
<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
This is talking about brothers and sisters, not about false prophets or
how to treat enemies, or that one will know the elect "by the
unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies".
Andrew, stubbornness is not really a fruit of the Spirit.
You are doing the same as Satan did... he changed the truth just a
little when he said that God had not said the people would surely die,
and please have a look at the result of that.
Of course we are to love our enemies. But it is not an indication for
others to judge us if we are the elect or not. You have mixed these two
aspects together on your own. No, it is not the Holy Spirit leading you
there, but your own stubbornness. The Holy Spirit is always in agreement
to Scripture, that is why Scripture is important. If you find a teaching
that is not in there - forget about it. Yet you insist... Your choice,
Andrew, (And no need "to heal my heart", you have not "hurt" it, but you
have twisted the truth).
I am done with this topic.
>>>> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
>>>>
>>>> Maybe you mean "kindness" as a fruit of the Spirit?
>>>>
>>>>> <> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
>>>> But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience,
>>>> kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.
>>>> Against such things there is no law. (Galatians 5:22-23 WEB)
>>>
>>> Love is kind (1 Corinthians 13:4).
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> Yes, love is kind.
>>
>> But that does not say that *others see we belong to God* by our being
>> kind to enemies.
>
> This understanding comes from understanding all of Scripture.
That is right - but is a subjective conclusion you have drawn there.
>>>> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
>>>>
>>>> This should be shown to everyone if possible and depending on us,
>>>> of course, and it is indeed Scriptural that people are known by
>>>> their fruits. But we are warned:
>>>>
>>>>> <> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
>>>> Let no one deceive you with empty words.
>>>> For because of these things, the wrath of God comes on the children
>>>> of disobedience.
>>>> Therefore don't be partakers with them.
>>>> For you were once darkness, but are now light in the Lord. Walk as
>>>> children of light, for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness
>>>> and righteousness and truth, proving what is well-pleasing to the
>>>> Lord. Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness,
>>>> but rather even reprove them.
>>>> (Ephesians 5:6-11 WEB)
>>>
>>> Words from the Holy Spirit are not empty.
>>
>> Pardon? What does that have to do with the verses I quoted?
>
> "Let no one deceive you with empty words."
I did not mention words "from the Holy Spirit" there. MC does surely not
have them.
>> They say
>> that we have to reprove and have no fellowship with the darkness. The
>> darkness has no words from the Holy Spirit.
>
> Correct.
>
>> Andrew, what is wrong with you?
>
> Don't know how to answer that because I am not receiving any guidance
> from the Holy Spirit on how to answer you.
>
>>> Most assuredly without doubt, the Holy Spirit continues to guide me
>>> in everything I say, do, and write.
>>
>> Not everything might be from the Holy Spirit all the time, Andrew.
>
> Correct.
>
>> You
>> are now flying as high as Michael Christ and think you do not need
>> correction.
>
> In truth, I know I need GOD's guidance and correction.
>
>> Yet you admitted of being wrong in the other thread.
>
> Yes.
>
>> You
>> made a mistake, so you should come down again.
>
> It remains my choice to die to self daily.
That is something quite different... That is taking up the cross every
day and needs actions from you - not the Holy Spirit. Jesus went to the
cross alone.
>> Te Lord does not really
>> love it if people think they know better than Him.
>
> Correct.
>
>>>> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
>>>>
>>>> We are to give information to those who ask us:
>>>>
>>>>> <> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
>>>> But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts; and always be ready to
>>>> give an answer to everyone who asks you a reason concerning the
>>>> hope that is in you, with humility and fear: having a good
>>>> conscience; that, while you are spoken against as evildoers, they
>>>> may be disappointed who revile your good manner of life in Christ.
>>>> (1 Peter 3:15-16 WEB)
>>>
>>> The Holy Spirit continues to guide me in my answers to others
>>> including to those who hate me.
>>
>> You can ask God for that, that is all you can. You depend completely
>> on
>> Him.
>
> Correct.
>
>> Andrew, come down from there, or you might fall down very deeply.
>
> My feet remain on the ground at the moment.
Very good. And unless the Lord has not come back, leave them there.
>>>> <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
>>>>
>>>>> One example would be Stephen (Acts 7:59-60).
>>>>
>>>> But of course we shall pray for everybody, and, what is even more
>>>> important, is that we should not leave this world with grudges
>>>> against others. Jesus and Stephen said the same in their last
>>>> hours. It means "forgiveness" - but it was surely not meant as a
>>>> show for others, though it can be impressive.
>>>
>>> Amen.
>>
>> Good that we can agree there. And neither Jesus nor Stephen spoke
>> kindly
>> there to their murderers, nor did they fellowship with them. Their
>> "love" for the enemy was asking God for forgiveness, that is prayer
>> for
>> them. It did not mean what you suggested above, namely that others
>> can
>> see we belong to God by our love we have for our enemies.
>
> Correct.
>
> The purpose of our loving our enemies is to obey HIM and not to
> glorify ourselves.
>
> GOD will help us with the former and not the latter purpose.
Amen!
>> Asking God to
>> forgive our enemies can very well be in secret, and so it does not
>> say
>> much to others about our relation to God and if we belong to him.
>> Loving
>> the enemy does not have to be seen by others, that is what it says.
>
> As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
> unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies
> (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).
No, that is not what is written there, and I have explained that above.
No further comment.
>>>>> "Those who live by the sword die by the sword." -- LORD Jesus
>>>>> Christ.
>>>>
>>>> This was not meant metaphorically, but literally.
>>>
>>> Please know in your heart as I know in mine that our LORD meant for
>>> this to have meaning on many levels.
>>
>> Oh, if I started with that, there would soon not much be left of
>> God's
>> Word. Sometimes we have to fight.
>
> Not as those of this world fight... but as HE would have us fight to
> persevere in truth and love.
Yes, IN TRUTH, not only in "love".
Yet you judge all the while!
>> I know you apologised, but what shall I get from what you have just
>> written there?
>
> My unconditional love.
You are joking. How is that love? And you are confusing "unconditional"
with "superficial".
>> Where have I ever used a "sword to harm others", or where would I
>> ever have suggested that?
>
> It has been observed that hurtful things were being written on both
> sides.
Oh yes, calling someone a false teacher will "hurt" him - but that does
not justify his lies.
>> In fact, you are harming me by suggesting I had.
>
> I am sorry that you are hurt by my asking you to put away your sword.
> Please forgive all my iniquities.
I will not respond in the same hypocritical way. I prefer not to answer
to you at all.
No, I was not HURT at all - YOU HARMED ME AND MY TESTIMONY.
You are still doing that. But just go on - it is completely up to you.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Your bearing false witness against me is forgiven as far as I am
concerned.
May GOD continue to help you with your needs, dear sister Vera whom I
love unconditionally.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung
Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit
As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies
(Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed?
::: veralein :::
Okay, have it your way. If you continue to be unteachable, change
Scripture and have your words look as if they were in Scripture as you
presented them, it is you who is deceiving people here. What you posted
there is NOT in Scripture. It is you who is bearing false witness, and
who is twisting God's Word.
Done with you.
Off into my blockfile again - if that is possible and you do not post
under 10 different e-mail addies again.
Think about it, and you have my e-mail address if you should ever change
your mind.
> May GOD continue to help you with your needs, dear sister Vera whom I
> love unconditionally.
What you mean is "whom I love superficially". You would think about your
mistakes instead of accusing others falsely if you "loved" them. What
you love is your own arrogance and pride.
> Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
>
> Andrew <><
> --
> Andrew B. Chung
> Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
> http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit
>
> As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
> unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies
> (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).
Lie. These words are not in Scripture the way you present them. And
according to that, you are none of the elect. I cannot see any "love"
from you towards your enemies. You expose them all the time, even on
your website. But you are talking about other people's swords...
ROTFL!!!!!!!!!! You are nothing but a hypocrite - and that is the truth.
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed?
Be careful - I have a website myself.
Good bye.
::: vera :::
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. (Hebrews 13:8
WEB)
Werner -the Christian Agnostic- Kurator
on 2006-08-21 announced this statement:
<cut>
> Andrew, stubbornness is not really a fruit of the Spirit.
>
> You are doing the same as Satan did... he changed the truth just a
> little when he said that God had not said the people would surely die,
> and please have a look at the result of that.
<cut huge chunk>
Ahem if you want to *quote* what Satan said, do *IT* correctly:
Genesis 3:1-4
New International Version (NIV)
Genesis 3
The Fall of Man
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD
God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat
from any tree in the garden'?"
2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the
trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit
from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must
not touch it, or you will die.' "
4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman.
Copyright 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
NIV at IBS International Bible Society NIV at Zondervan Zondervan
==
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Genesis 3
The Fall of Man
1 Now (A)the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the
field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman,
"Indeed, has God said, 'You shall not eat from any tree of the
garden'?"
2 The woman said to the serpent, "(B)From the fruit of the
trees of the garden we may eat;
3 but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the
garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat from it or touch it,
or you will die.'"
4(C)The serpent said to the woman, "You surely will not die!
Copyright 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977,
1995 by The Lockman Foundation NASB at Lockman The Lockman
Foundation NASB at Zondervan Zondervan
==
Contemporary English Version (CEV)
Genesis 3
The First Sin
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
1 The snake was sneakier than any of the other wild animals
that the LORD God had made. One day it came to the woman and
asked, "Did God tell you not to eat fruit from any tree in the
garden?"
2 The woman answered, "God said we could eat fruit from any
tree in the garden, 3except the one in the middle. He told
us not to eat fruit from that tree or even to touch it. If
we do, we will die."
4 "No, you won't!" the snake replied.
Contemporary English Version (CEV)
Copyright 1995 by American Bible Society
American Bible Society
==
21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
Genesis 3
1 Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field
which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, "Yea,
hath God said, `Ye shall not eat of every tree of the
garden'?"
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, "We may eat of the fruit
of the trees of the garden,
3 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the
garden, God hath said, `Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall
ye touch it,lest ye die.'"
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, "Ye shall not surely die;
21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
Copyright 1994 by Deuel Enterprises, Inc.
KJ21 at Deuel
***********************************
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ye
1. (used with a pl. verb) Archaic. You.
2. (used with a sing. verb) Archaic. You.
***********************************
==
Amplified Bible (AMP)
Genesis 3
1 NOW THE serpent was more subtle and crafty than any living
creature of the field which the Lord God had made. And he
[Satan] said to the woman, Can it really be that God has said,
You shall not eat from every tree of the garden?
2 And the woman said to the serpent, We may eat the fruit
from the trees of the garden,
3 Except the fruit from the tree which is in the middle of the
garden. God has said, You shall not eat of it, neither shall
you touch it, lest you die.
4 But the serpent said to the woman, You shall not surely die,
Amplified Bible (AMP)
Copyright 1954, 1958, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1987 by The Lockman
Foundation AMP at Lockman The Lockman Foundation Amplified at
Zondervan Zondervan
===
So Vera as this sample of "bible-translations" show, Satan
didn't use the *word* people, but "you" addressing *one* person
namely "EVE". He also didn't mention ADAM at all either, but was
speaking to only *ONE* person EVE.
Genesis 3
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then
your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing
good and evil.
So looks to me you read into the *scripture things that aren't
there either!
But what's equally interesting is the fact when one compares the
"Commandment" really given by "God" with that of how Eve renders
it, there is a glaring difference...
Genesis 2 (KJV)
16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree
of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou
shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof
thou shalt surely die.
Genesis 3
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the
garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye
touch it, lest ye die.
Well, who *ADDED* *neither shall ye touch* it, it isn't found in
the once given by God..
Did Eve the *first* woman add it on her own, or was this an
afterthought by God (forget to tell Adam not to touch it) given
to Eve?
Werner Kurator
--
==========================================================
"Like all translations of the Bible, made as they are by
imperfect man, this one undoubtedly falls short of its goals. Yet
we are grateful to God for the extend to which he has enabled us
to realize these goals and for the strength he has given us and
our colleagues to complete our task."
Preface to the "New International Version" of the Bible
June 1978
(Revised August 1983)
==============================================================
"I am writing for the 'Christian agnostic,' by which I mean a
person who... thought he is sure of many Christians truth,
feels that he cannot honestly and conscientiously 'sign on the
dotted line' that he believes certain theological ideas about
what some branches of the Church dogmatize."
"LESLIE D. WEATHERHEAD's thoughtful and compelling Christian
writings brought him worldwide acclaim during his lifetime. His
many other books include "the will of God", "The Autobiography
of Jesus", "Life begins at death", "The meaning of the Cross",
"Prescription for anxiety", and "time for God". Dr. Weatherhead
served as the pastor of City Temple in London, England, from
1936 until 1960."
== quote taken from the back-cover of his "the Christian Agnostic"...
==============================================================
Global warming? Yeah, it's our fault. McDonald's, sure. Only
Only country to use nuclear weapons in warfare? Yep, and glad to do it.
But the Canadians are responsible for William Shatner.
-- Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes in the SDM
::: veralein :::
Werner -the Christian Agnostic- Kurator <wer...@peace-with.all> typed:
>>>> veralein ::: in <4ku175F...@individual.net>
> on 2006-08-21 announced this statement:
>
> <cut>
>
>> Andrew, stubbornness is not really a fruit of the Spirit.
>>
>> You are doing the same as Satan did... he changed the truth just a
>> little when he said that God had not said the people would surely
>> die, and please have a look at the result of that.
>
> <cut huge chunk>
>
> Ahem if you want to *quote* what Satan said, do *IT* correctly:
I did not "quote", and I simply referred to this to give an example. And
of course Scripture is more precise than I was from my memory there. I
wanted to say it without quoting - but that was a mistake.
So read Scripture as is in future.
It is good to see you reading Scripture, and not simply the Prefaces
only.
We do not know, because we were not there then.
> Werner Kurator
> --
> ==========================================================
> "Like all translations of the Bible, made as they are by
> imperfect man, this one undoubtedly falls short of its goals. Yet
> we are grateful to God for the extend
So you want to say that this mistakes is in the original, or why have
you not corrected it?
::: vera :::
><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. (Hebrews 13:8
WEB)
<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
--
Linda Lee
==============================================================
You are correct that the scripture reports that God only told "the man"
(Eve did not exist yet and was still contained in "the man") not to eat
of the fruit of the tree.
But the situation was different after God made the man into Adam and
Eve as clean Adamic flesh with the spirit within them. Then they were
not to "touch" it either.
The fact that God had given Eve and Adam different instructions
concerning 'the tree of knowledge of good and evil' demonstrates
that the story of 'the serpent' seducing Adam and Eve has two
levels of meaning.
In Genesis Chapter Two, prior to God's creation of Eve, God had
forbidden "the man" (an angel in Paradise/Heaven) only from eating of
the fruit of 'the tree of knowledge of good and evil' lest he die
(Gen. 2:17) - meaning he should not enter into the flesh.
However, when 'the serpent' approaches Eve (after God's creation
of Adamic mankind) in Gen. 3:3, Eve says, "God hath said, Ye shall
not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die" - with the
word "touch" being a euphemism meaning "to lie with a woman".
One of the definitions of the word here translated 'touch' - Heb.
5060 - is "to touch, i.e. lay the hand upon (for any purpose;
euphemistically, to lie with a woman)", as well as join, draw near,
bring (down), cast, smite.
They were not to "touch" (mate with) the unclean flesh of the fallen
angels - the sons of God who mated with the daughters of men (adamic
mankind) in Genesis 6.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
The truth is HIS way and not my way.
Indeed, HE is the truth.
"I am the way, the truth, and the life..." -- LORD Jesus Christ.
> If you continue to be unteachable, change Scripture and have your words look as if they were in Scripture as you presented them, it is you who is deceiving people here.
Your continuing to bear false witness against me is forgiven as far as
I am concerned.
> What you posted there is NOT in Scripture.
Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, and James 2:14-17 are verses from
the Holy Bible.
These verses and their context allow people to anticipate that the very
elect will have unconditional love for everyone including their
enemies.
Sorry you disagree with this understanding of the verses I have cited.
Please forgive all my iniquities.
May GOD help you demonstrate to others what has been described in the
cited verses above, dear neighbor Vera whom I love unconditionally.
(Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung
Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit
As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies
(Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed?
Werner -the Christian Agnostic- Kurator
> In news:slrneekbr2...@peace-with.all, Werner -the
> Christian Agnostic- Kurator <wer...@peace-with.all> typed:
>>>>> veralein ::: in <4ku175F...@individual.net>
>> on 2006-08-21 announced this statement:
>>
>> <cut>
>>
>>> Andrew, stubbornness is not really a fruit of the Spirit.
>>>
>>> You are doing the same as Satan did... he changed the truth
>>> just a little when he said that God had not said the people
>>> would surely die, and please have a look at the result of
>>> that.
>>
>> <cut huge chunk>
>>
>> Ahem if you want to *quote* what Satan said, do *IT*
>> correctly:
>
> I did not "quote", and I simply referred to this to give an
> example. And of course Scripture is more precise than I was
> from my memory there. I wanted to say it without quoting - but
> that was a mistake.
*Good* excuse.
>
> So read Scripture as is in future.
Don't be silly, I'm reading it every day.
Why do you think I'm aware of the *contradictions* found in the
various accounts by the biblical Authors, by reading
bible-critical books or Websites? Nope of course not, in-depth
study of the Bible directly of course. Why do you think *so*
many real *ATHEISTS* used to be *Christians*?
If this answer came from Andrew B. Chung, I'd say "Hey, what
happens to the Holy Spirit" does he/she/it keep *secrets* even
from you the most trusted among the elect I encountered on
Usenet..
Isn't if funny, we have in gory details all the *killings* done
by the Israelites in the OT, and yet we don't know why Eve was
able to *say* something God didn't tell Adam and still maintain
that *GOD* said it. Looks to me this is the first instance in
which a human *added* to the words of *GOD*, and so it seems it
got started by a woman... one could be tempted to so *who* else?
:-)
>
>> Werner Kurator --
>> ==========================================================
>> "Like all translations of the Bible, made as they are by
>> imperfect man, this one undoubtedly falls short of its goals.
>> Yet we are grateful to God for the extend
>
> So you want to say that this mistakes is in the original, or
> why have you not corrected it?
As I said before, I'm truly grateful for pointing out these
errors, and yes I messed that one up too. So in case I need a
*proof-reader* I'll keep you in my files for future needs.
>
>
> ::: vera :::
>
>
>><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
> Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
> (Hebrews 13:8 WEB)
><>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
Well, Hebrews *still* *IS* a obscure source... and we don't
really know who *authored* it. Just because it was around when
the Bible was put together by fallible humans it doesn't make it
reliable...
"Read The Bible" (I came to know as a "Fundamentalist" you sure
have read)...
in <1153401135....@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>
on 2006-07-20 announced this statement:
<cut>
> Werner said on 7/19, 3:35 pm [Re: 2 Kings 2:11]: did
> Werner said on 7/20, 12:06 am [Re: Heb.9:22]. Like I said
> *PAUL* who never walked with Jesus
The book of Hebrews doesn't say it was written by Paul.
== end quote
>
>
>
Werner Kurator
--
==========================================================
"Like all translations of the Bible, made as they are by
imperfect man, this one undoubtedly falls short of its goals. Yet
we are grateful to God for the extent to which he has enabled us
to realize these goals and for the strength he has given us and
our colleagues to complete our task."
Preface to the "New International Version" of the Bible
June 1978
(Revised August 1983)
==============================================================
"I am writing for the 'Christian agnostic,' by which I mean a
person who... thought he is sure of many Christians truth,
feels that he cannot honestly and conscientiously 'sign on the
dotted line' that he believes certain theological ideas about
what some branches of the Church dogmatize."
"LESLIE D. WEATHERHEAD's thoughtful and compelling Christian
writings brought him worldwide acclaim during his lifetime. His
many other books include "the will of God", "The Autobiography
of Jesus", "Life begins at death", "The meaning of the Cross",
"Prescription for anxiety", and "time for God". Dr. Weatherhead
served as the pastor of City Temple in London, England, from
1936 until 1960"
== quote taken from the back-cover of his "the Christian Agnostic"...
==============================================================
It is impossible to enjoy idling thoroughly unless one has plenty of
work to do.
-- Jerome Klapka Jerome
Werner -the Christian Agnostic- Kurator
<cut same passage from *different* translations>
<cut>
>
>
> You are correct that the scripture reports that God only told
> "the man" (Eve did not exist yet and was still contained in
> "the man") not to eat of the fruit of the tree.
>
> But the situation was different after God made the man into
> Adam and Eve as clean Adamic flesh with the spirit within
> them. Then they were not to "touch" it either.
>
> The fact that God had given Eve and Adam different
> instructions concerning 'the tree of knowledge of good and
> evil' demonstrates that the story of 'the serpent' seducing
> Adam and Eve has two levels of meaning.
>
> In Genesis Chapter Two, prior to God's creation of Eve, God
> had forbidden "the man" (an angel in Paradise/Heaven) only
> from eating of the fruit of 'the tree of knowledge of good and
> evil' lest he die (Gen. 2:17) - meaning he should not enter
> into the flesh.
Well I have heard this portion about the "flesh", what I'm
unconformable with is the *idea* that *flesh* is *necessary*
evil.
Also I do not think that man is equal to *Angels*, but
unfortunately this idea too comes from a rather obscure book in
the Bible, "Hebrews"...
>
> However, when 'the serpent' approaches Eve (after God's
> creation of Adamic mankind) in Gen. 3:3, Eve says, "God hath
> said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest
> ye die" - with the word "touch" being a euphemism meaning "to
> lie with a woman".
>
> One of the definitions of the word here translated 'touch' -
> Heb. 5060 - is "to touch, i.e. lay the hand upon (for any
> purpose; euphemistically, to lie with a woman)", as well as
> join, draw near, bring (down), cast, smite.
So they should not have sex? OK I've read that this idea is old
too.
>
> They were not to "touch" (mate with) the unclean flesh of the
> fallen angels - the sons of God who mated with the daughters
> of men (adamic mankind) in Genesis 6.
The problem with this is, that this sexual union *produced*
offspring, who were all *drowned* in the flood. If spiritual
beings could have sex with humans, I'm not so sure, but I'd like
to read more about that..
>
Werner Kurator
--
==========================================================
"Like all translations of the Bible, made as they are by
imperfect man, this one undoubtedly falls short of its goals. Yet
we are grateful to God for the extent to which he has enabled us
to realize these goals and for the strength he has given us and
our colleagues to complete our task."
Preface to the "New International Version" of the Bible
June 1978
(Revised August 1983)
==============================================================
"I am writing for the 'Christian agnostic,' by which I mean a
person who... thought he is sure of many Christians truth,
feels that he cannot honestly and conscientiously 'sign on the
dotted line' that he believes certain theological ideas about
what some branches of the Church dogmatize."
"LESLIE D. WEATHERHEAD's thoughtful and compelling Christian
writings brought him worldwide acclaim during his lifetime. His
many other books include "the will of God", "The Autobiography
of Jesus", "Life begins at death", "The meaning of the Cross",
"Prescription for anxiety", and "time for God". Dr. Weatherhead
served as the pastor of City Temple in London, England, from
1936 until 1960"
== quote taken from the back-cover of his "the Christian Agnostic"...
==============================================================
Our task was a simple one: To prepare the most attractive, best tasting
cheap food that could not be eaten. This is where my M$U training really
paid off.
-- Uncle Al <http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/>
Linda Lee
=============================================================
The reason for the Flood was due to the intermingling between the
adamic flesh God had created (due to the initial fall of the angels)
and the continuing influx of angels who invaded this realm. All flesh,
except for Noah's line, who was 'perfect in his generations', i.e. his
ancestors had not mixed with the angels, had become polluted.
Birth through Adamic man and woman was the means by which the fallen
could be born to decide to return to God. They were to have sex and
give birth, but only with each other, not with angels who continued to
sin by entering the flesh outside of birth through adamic flesh.
The church says the flesh is sinFUL, but actually becoming flesh was
the first sin.
Linda Lee
Have you ever heard of the 'katabole', i.e. the overthrow of
Satan's earthly kingdom when God made the Earth "without form, and
void" (Gen. 1:2) and cast the angels from Heaven?
The apostle Matthew states that the Messiah had fulfilled a prophecy of
old (Ps. 78:2) when he says in Matt. 13:34-35, "All these things
spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake
he not unto them: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the
prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things
which have been kept secret from the *foundation* of the world."
The word here translated 'foundation' - Heb. 2602 -
'katabole' - means "founding", "foundation", and
"conceive" and is "from 2598" ('kataballo' - above)
meaning "to throw down:--cast down, descend, fall (down)".
Gen. 1:1-2 says, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the
earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon
the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the
waters."
The word here translated as 'beginning' - Heb. 7225 - means in
part beginning, and is "from the same as 7218", i.e. "an unused
root apparently meaning to shake", beginning, and "end, X every
[man]".
Gen. 1:2 refers to the Earth being "without form, and void"; and
Gen. 3:17 says that God "cursed" the ground of the Earth when
Adam/Eve sinned after being deceived by 'the serpent' - symbolic of
the fallen angels after being deceived by Satan.
The word translated in Gen. 1:2 as 'void' - Heb. 922 - is
"from an unused root (meaning to be empty); a vacuity, i.e.
(superficially) an undistinguishable ruin:--emptiness, void."
This word translated 'darkness' - Heb. 2822 - is defined
obscurity, "(literally) darkness; figuratively misery, destruction,
death, ignorance, sorrow, wickedness".
Wickedness and death was already present on the earth when God created
the world as it is now. The destruction of the surface of the earth
and the Creation was in response to the fall of the angels.
Werner -the Christian Agnostic- Kurator
Linda Lee
in <1156268316.0...@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> on
2006-08-22 announced this statement:
> Werner,
>
> Have you ever heard of the 'katabole', i.e. the overthrow of
> Satan's earthly kingdom when God made the Earth "without form, and
> void" (Gen. 1:2) and cast the angels from Heaven?
I have heard that there was the rebellion against God in heaven.
Now my problem with this is, What reason had the angels to go
against God? If they were in the *heavenly* realm and engulfed
in the love of God (or do you think they didn't feel God's
love?) What caused the rebellion? Why couldn't the same take
place again in the future?
<cut>
June 1978
"If you are "fighting" vi, it should not try and give helpful hints, it
should munge your cursor, screw up your terminal, rot13 your mailbox and
call your girlfriend for a date." - Pim van Riezen
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> in <1156268316.0...@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> on
> 2006-08-22 announced this statement:
>
> > Werner,
> >
> > Have you ever heard of the 'katabole', i.e. the overthrow of
> > Satan's earthly kingdom when God made the Earth "without form, and
> > void" (Gen. 1:2) and cast the angels from Heaven?
>
> I have heard that there was the rebellion against God in heaven.
>
> Now my problem with this is, What reason had the angels to go
> against God?
Their choice.
It is GOD's infinite will that all souls retain HIS generous gift of
free will.
> If they were in the *heavenly* realm and engulfed
> in the love of God (or do you think they didn't feel God's
> love?) What caused the rebellion?
The choice to covet GOD's infinite power.
> Why couldn't the same take place again in the future?
It will not happen among those who love GOD with all their hearts,
souls, minds, and strengths.
May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor Werner whom I love
unconditionally.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung
Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit
As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies
(Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed?
Sam Taylor
students INC LLC and they live in a big basement in Columbia hghts
Brooklyn NY. they vote on Scriptures, to approve them for Jehovah.
if they so choose.
Linda Lee
Werner -the Christian Agnostic- Kurator wrote:
Werner,
There is no indication why Lucifer rebelled other than pride and evil,
but the root form of 'serpent' (as Lucifer is symbolized in Genesis) is
defined enchanter, so it appears he deceived the other fallen angels
with enchantment. Evil is crazy really, because it is self-destructive
on a very basic level.
God said in Ezek. 28:16 that he would one day destroy 'the covering
cherub' Lucifer who had covered the others in sin.
This is the proving ground where those who rebelled and fell from
Heaven can choose to accept or reject God and to avoid the death of the
spirit on Judgment Day.
Linda Lee
Werner -the Christian Agnostic- Kurator wrote:
================================================================
Werner,
There is no indication why Lucifer rebelled other than pride and evil,
but the root form of 'serpent' (as Lucifer is symbolized in Genesis) is
defined enchanter, so it appears he deceived the other fallen angels
with enchantment. Evil is crazy really, because it is self-destructive
on a very basic level.
God said in Ezek. 28:16 that he would one day destroy 'the covering
cherub' Lucifer who had covered the others in sin.
This is the proving ground where those who rebelled and fell from
Heaven can choose to accept or reject God and to avoid the death of the
spirit on Judgment Day. The sin of leaving Heaven to follow Lucifer
brought us all under the threat of death of the spirit someday - unless
we repent of our original sin. Those who continue to follow Satan by
rejecting God will suffer his fate of death of the spirit someday.
The Book of Jude goes into depth concerning the fallen angels and their
relationship to wicked men in the flesh.
Jude 5-8 says, "I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye
once knew this ...the angels which kept not their first estate, but
left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under
darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and
Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves
over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for
an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Likewise also
these filthy dreamers defile the flesh". Jude 11 says, "Woe unto
them! for they have gone in the way of Cain."
The fallen angels are all men and women in the flesh (other than those
whom God says he has specifically 'sent' to the Earth). However,
when God made Adamic humankind from the fallen angels, they were in the
flesh as the result of God's will; and they had received the chance
to become 'godly' men and women by repenting and returning to
worship of God.
The angels who had fallen, who had left Heaven ("kept not their first
estate, but left their own habitation") are in "chains under
darkness". This is all of humankind in the flesh.
Again, the word here translated 'chains' - Gk. 1199 - is
defined "a band, i.e.; ligament (of the body) or shackle (of a
prisoner), fig. an impediment or disability:--band, bond, chain,
string".
The word here translated 'darkness' - Gk. 2217 - is defined
"gloom (as shrouding like a cloud):--blackness, darkness, mist".
The fallen angels are prisoners; spirits imprisoned in the bodies of
men. They are 'tillers of the ground' (enslaved in the flesh),
confined in the darkness of the flesh until "the judgment of the
great day".
Those fallen angels who are "ungodly men" (Jude 4) are in the
position of being mortal in body and spirit. They are prisoners in the
body whose spirit will not obtain release from their imprisonment even
at the time of their death. Therefore, they are in danger of suffering
the second death of the soul, the death of the spirit. Those fallen
angels who have become godly men do not suffer the second death - the
death of their spirit. At the time of their death, the spirits of godly
men obtain freedom from imprisonment in their bodies, and their spirits
still live on in Heaven.
The people of Sodom and Gomorrha who were destroyed by "eternal
fire" are "an example" of the "eternal fire" that those like
them, "ungodly men", unrepentant fallen "angels who kept not
their first estate", will suffer on Judgment day. This is the final
destruction of their spirit in "the lake of fire. This is the second
death" (Rev. 20:14).
The 'lake of fire' is the "everlasting fire" that the Messiah
says is "prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matt. 25:41) who
are those "ungodly" people who remain unrepentant and estranged
from God.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> > Werner -the Christian Agnostic- Kurator wrote:
> >> Linda Lee
> >> in <1156268316.0...@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com> on
> >> 2006-08-22 announced this statement:
> >>
> >> > Werner,
> >> >
> >> > Have you ever heard of the 'katabole', i.e. the overthrow of
> >> > Satan's earthly kingdom when God made the Earth "without form, and
> >> > void" (Gen. 1:2) and cast the angels from Heaven?
> >>
> >> I have heard that there was the rebellion against God in heaven.
> >>
> >> Now my problem with this is, What reason had the angels to go
> >> against God?
> >
> > Their choice.
>
> indication that that is the sole reason for them to go against
> God.
Without free will, they would not have been able to choose to rebel
against GOD's sovereignty.
Again, this choice arose from their coveting GOD's power.
www.pulpitfire.org
in article <1156902855.2...@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <lov...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
>Without free will, they would not have been able to choose to rebel
>against GOD's sovereignty.
And you are describing creatures *before* they fell. Only in the
unfallen state does a creature have the will or capacity to choose
favorably for God. Since the fall, man has become spiritually dead,
mentally darkened, and morally depraved (Ephesians 2 - 5). The
unregenerate mind is at enmity against God, and is not able to subject
itself to the law of God (Romans 8:7).
When the lost do trust Christ, it is because they are born "not of the
will of man", but "of God" (John 1:12-13), and because God, having
given them a new nature, works in them both to will and do of His good
pleasure (Philippians 2:13). Salvation is "not of man who wills", but
"God who shows mercy" (Romans 9). God is the one who chose us (Romans
9), before we were born, or had done anything good or evil, in order
that His purpose according to election might stand (Romans 9).
People who proclaim salvation is the result of man's free will,
introduce a man-made contribution, which denies the plain, direct
statements of numerous passages of Scripture, as well as the
sovereignty of God in the salvation of sinners. Any "gospel" which
allows man to boast that he contributed to salvation, is one which
fails to trust in Christ alone, and therefore results in eternal
damnation (Galatians 6).
--
Christ died for our sins, and God raised Him from the dead.
Rely on this finished work alone for salvation (1 Cor. 15:1-3;
Eph. 2:8-10).
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