Bait and Switch
Jim McGinn
"Michael Tobis" <mto...@gmail.com> stuck his foot in his mouth when he wrote
One of the argumentative tactics that the GW loons employ involves bait and
switch. (For other examples of this read anything by Coby Beck.) When the
skeptics point out that the confidence level of the computer models has
never been properly explicated they shift the subject with comments like the
following:
> . . . our more disingenuous critics would have you believe, the core of
> the evidence that we need to be concerned about anthropogenic emissions
> does not come from model runs, but from relatively straightforward
> arguments in classical radiative physics.
I know for a fact that there are no, "straightforward arguments in classical
radiative physics," that indicate catastrophic AGW. In fact the statement
is patently absurd.
So, Michael, I'm calling your bluff. Where's the evidence that,
"straightforward arguments in classical radiative physics," indicate
catastrophic AGW? References?
Wanna bet that Michael never answers the question and instead shifts the
topic, once again, to talking about the drama of if AGW is true. Or maybe
he'll just skip ahead and accuse me of working for big oil.
Jim
Global_Warming @Peacemail.com
Models are irrelevent. Radiative physics was begun by Albert Einstein
over 100 years ago presenting the "photon" theory of light radiation.
He developed it further with the Theory of Relativity and the Special
Theory of Relativity. Neils Bohr and the Copenhagen Interpretation
developed quantum physics theory further. Both of these are well proved
by the photons of light emitted by the dscreen you are looking at to
read this.
That is radiative physics. PHYSICAL elements and molecules RADIATE
energy as visible and invisible light. Infrared light is invisible to
humans but visible to their instruments. We can see IR light with
instruments and special IR sensitive camera films.
Only rightwing loons deny infrared energy exists.
CO2 is opaque to IR photons. That means it captures them, holds them
for a time and releases them when conditions are right. CO2 is also
invisible.
Only rightwing loons deny CO2 exists.
The VISIBLE spectrum lead to the discovery of elements through their
RADIATIVE PHYSICS. We know a lot about the absorption and emissions of
various spectra of light, both visible and invisible.
Only rightwing loons deny spectra exist.
WE know for an absolute certainty what happens when IR radiation is in
an atmosphere containing CO2. DEnial of Greenhouse gases requires a new
physics that explains where the IR energy disappears from the system
when we measure it is in the system using thermometers and IR-sensitive
instruments and IR-sensitive camera films.
Only a rightwing loon would deny IR energy is in the system after it
has been measured as being there.
The FIRST LAW of THERMODYNAMICS states that energy cannot be created
nor destroyed. Radiative Physics explains what the IR heat energy does
in the system. You have to produce an alternative explanation which
EXPLAINS ALL OF THE EVIDENCE better than the explanation used by the
whole world's phyicists.
Only a rightwing loon would imagine leprechans wisking away the IR
energy so that it never influences the climate-atmospheric system.
MODELS are useful for predicting, but they are totally unnecessary for
demonstrating that Athropogenic (Man-Made) Greenhouse Gases trap heat
in the biosphere and create Global Warming.
You can fight and destroy every model on the planet and the plain
RADIATIVE PHYSIC still proves there is a serious Global Warming problem
caused by man-made pollutoion gases.
Only a rightwing loon trained in a Kansas Creation-Science class would
be ignorant of RADIATIVE PHYSICS and think models are central to
proving anything about Global Warming.
Jim McGinn
"Global_Warming @Peacemail.com" <Global_...@Peacemail.com> wrote
I agree. And since the only basis for the premise that the future of
earth's climate involves catastrophic AGW we have no choice but to reject
the premise. Right?
Do you agree with my reasoning? If not then what is the basis for the
premise that the future of earth's climate involves catastrophic AGW. And,
as always, don't fail to support your argument with references.
Jim
Mark Schaffer
Jim McGinn
"Mark Schaffer" <mark.s...@unlv.edu> wrote in message
news:1144195155.1...@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> http://www.realclimate.org/
>
Propaganda.
Lloyd Parker
scientific source. You're pathetic.
Lloyd Parker
reject the premise that the water will get hotter because that involved a
model?
Michael Tobis
trying to prove I won't respond, isn't it?
I actually have other things to do than argue with people, especially
people more interested in debating trickery than truth. In this case I
will reply, but in general a lack of reply should be taken as evidence
that I am busy working, rather than that I have nothing to say.
Read the quote from me:
> the core of
> the evidence that we need to be concerned about anthropogenic emissions
> does not come from model runs, but from relatively straightforward
> arguments in classical radiative physics.
and the challenge:
> So, Michael, I'm calling your bluff. Where's the evidence that,
> "straightforward arguments in classical radiative physics," indicate
> catastrophic AGW? References?
Argument by straw man, anyone?
Am I to defend what I said, or the manipulation of what I said into
something far more arguable. Indeed, what does "catastrophic AGW" mean
in this context? The word "catastrophic" doesn't have a clear meaning
here. I said "reason for concern".
Of course, the fundamental classical physics basis I refer to is the
phenomenon informally known as the "greenhouse effect". Am I being
challenged to produce evidence of the greenhnouse effect? A didactic
introduction to the greenhouse effect? What?
If my interlocutor were engaged in fair and open-minded discourse, he
would make clear what sort of response could conceivably satisfy his
inquiry. As it stands, there is 1) only good luck that I happened
across this challenge to me ("I'll bet he doesn't respond" indeed") and
2) not the slightest indication of what a satisfactory response might
look like. I'd venture that there simply is no response that would be
treated by Mr McGinn as satisfactory, and that its truth or untruth is
not especially relevant.
In short, the rules of science and the rules of bullshit artistry are
entirely orthogonal. I leave it to the reader to determine which of us
is playing which game.
The best I can do in regards to this charming stealth challenge, then,
is to confine myself to saying this:
I was referring to the greenhouse effect, of which the mechanism was
understood and magnitude successfully estimated long before the first
programmable computer was built.
The genuinely interested reader is referred to the wikipedia article
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_effect
as an excellent starting point for further investigation.
mt
bill
> >>
> >
> >Propaganda.
> >
> >
> BS. You fawn over cato and sepp, then you're just too damn stupid to accept a
> scientific source. You're pathetic.
Propoganda, just like cato.
Jim McGinn
"Michael Tobis" <mto...@gmail.com> wrote
<snip>
>> the core of
>> the evidence that we need to be concerned about anthropogenic emissions
>> does not come from model runs, but from relatively straightforward
>> arguments in classical radiative physics.
>> So, Michael, I'm calling your bluff. Where's the evidence that,
>> "straightforward arguments in classical radiative physics," indicate
>> catastrophic AGW? References?
> . . . what does "catastrophic AGW" mean
> in this context?
I'll allow you to specify.
> . . . Am I being
> challenged to produce evidence of the greenhouse effect?
Uh, yes.
> I'd venture that there simply is no response that would be
> treated by Mr McGinn as satisfactory
This statement is consistent with my predictions.
Jim
Michael Tobis
>> in this context?
> I'll allow you to specify.
But they aren't my words! Why should I have to defend them?
>> . . . Am I being
>> challenged to produce evidence of the greenhouse effect?
> Uh, yes.
I googled "Venus". I was feeling lucky, and I got this:
http://www.nineplanets.org/venus.html
It says
"This dense atmosphere produces a run-away greenhouse effect that
raises Venus' surface temperature by about 400 degrees to over 740 K
(hot enough to melt lead). Venus' surface is actually hotter than
Mercury's despite being nearly twice as far from the Sun."
Will that do?
mt
Jim McGinn
>>> the core of
>>> the evidence that we need to be concerned about anthropogenic emissions
>>> does not come from model runs, but from relatively straightforward
>>> arguments in classical radiative physics.
>> So, Michael, I'm calling your bluff. Where's the evidence that,
>> "straightforward arguments in classical radiative physics," indicate
>> catastrophic AGW? References?
> "This dense atmosphere produces a run-away greenhouse effect that
> raises Venus' surface temperature by about 400 degrees to over 740 K
> (hot enough to melt lead). Venus' surface is actually hotter than
> Mercury's despite being nearly twice as far from the Sun."
> Will that do?
It depends what your claim is. I don't see you making any claim here. Are
you saying that the runaway greenhouse effect on Venus is evidence that the
same thing is about to happen on earth? If so, I doubt there is even one
scientist that will concur with you on this.
Jim
H2-PV NOW
NOT JUST LIKE CATO. Cato is run by oilmen Killer Brothers Koch whom
were found culpable in a FEDERAL COURT of polluting six states air,
water and soil and fined $35,000,000.00. BILL Koch, twin brother to
David Koch called his brothers Koch Industries "ORGANIZED CRIME" on CBS
national television and was not sued for libel. No similar accusations
can be made about "realclimate.org". NOT THE SAME!
Sparky @zig-zag.net wrote:
> http://snipurl.com/opq6
> Google Results "Jim McGinn" arrest warrant issued.
> http://snipurl.com/oppy
> Google Results: "Jim McGinn" arrested for fraud.
> Does anybody know if this is the same McGinn that used to post on
> sci.environment? I always knew he would turn up bad in the end, all his
> association with organized crime figures.
> http://snipurl.com/opqb
> Google Results "Jim McGinn" connected to organized crime.
It looks like there are reports that Jim McGinn has been arrested for
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Michael Tobis
> you saying that the runaway greenhouse effect on Venus is evidence that the
> same thing is about to happen on earth?
nope. I'm responding to this:
>> . . . Am I being
>> challenged to produce evidence of the greenhouse effect?
> Uh, yes.
So I produced evidence of the greenhouse effect.
This in turn was in response to you challenging me in saying that the
concern is based on
well-established results in classical physics, not on models.
> It depends what your claim is.
My present claim is only that the greenhouse effect itself is
well-established physics.
So, do you acknowledge that the greenhouse effect itself is established
physics, or not?
Try to keep the invective to a minimum. It's a simple enough question.
Are we agreed on this point or not?
mt
Jim McGinn
"Michael Tobis" <mto...@gmail.com> wrote
>> Are
>> you saying that the runaway greenhouse effect on Venus is evidence that
>> the
>> same thing is about to happen on earth?
>
> nope.
Then do you retract the following which you stated yesterday: " . . . the
core of the evidence that we need to be concerned about anthropogenic
emissions does not come from model runs, but from relatively straightforward
arguments in classical radiative physics?"
Or are you going to keep pretending?
Michael Tobis
answer mine.
" . . . the
core of the evidence that we need to be concerned about anthropogenic
emissions does not come from model runs, but from relatively
straightforward
arguments in classical radiative physics?"
I stand by the quote above. Do you accept that the greenhouse effect is
classical physics or not?
mt
Jim McGinn
"Michael Tobis" <mto...@gmail.com> wrote
> " . . . the
> core of the evidence that we need to be concerned about anthropogenic
> emissions does not come from model runs, but from relatively
> straightforward
> arguments in classical radiative physics?"
>
> I stand by the quote above.
References?
Michael Tobis
someone else saying the same thing, you will dismiss them as rudely as
you have me and everyone else who doesn't agree with your
preconceptions. Why should I expose people I admire to your nonsense?
If you were seriously interested in this issue, you would answer my
question, as I answered yours.
I'm trying to formulate an argument against your position, and in doing
so I must presume that you hold a coherent position that I might argue
against it. The only thing you seem willing to state with any clarity
is that we are in disagreement. So I am (admittedly with little
optimism at this point) trying to find out what semblance of a position
you might possibly be trying to hold.
Taking pleasure in being rude to people who know things that you don't
does not constitute an intellectual position, by the way. It's called a
"bad habit" not a "theory".
encore, and barring some unforeseen change, the final encore:
Do you accept that the greenhouse effect is established classical
physics or not?
If you refuse to answer, why?
Why should I feel compelled to answer your questions if you feel free
to ignore mine?
mt
si...@situ.com
while i may not speak for Mr Tobis, i will point out that the argument
from classical radiative physics is very well known for more than a century.
i understand from some of your previous posts that you are most sceptical
and disbelieving of large numerical models requiring extensive computation.
i therefore suggest you read the following paper
Philosophical Magazine and Journal of Science,
Fifth Series, page 237 et seq., April 1896.
'On the Influence of Carbonic Acid in the Air upon the Temperature
of the Ground' by Svante Arrhenius
i further suggest that you equip yourself with pencil and paper and
work through the arguments presented therein.
this is a very nice paper and may be verified with some elementary
calculation, with no use of elaborate computer models. i have done
so and satisfied myself that the result is sound.
if you are able to find some glaring error in the physics or the
mathematics in this paper, i am sure you will forever be famous.
until then, you will forgive me if i believe Prof. Arrhenius,
Mr. Tobis, and other eminently qualified scientists, as well as
my own calculation, rather than your unsupported assertions.
sidd
Jim McGinn
<si...@situ.com> wrote
> while i may not speak for Mr Tobis, i will point out that the argument
> from classical radiative physics is very well known for more than a
> century.
What argument?
>
> i understand from some of your previous posts that you are most sceptical
> and disbelieving of large numerical models requiring extensive
> computation.
> i therefore suggest you read the following paper
>
> Philosophical Magazine and Journal of Science,
> Fifth Series, page 237 et seq., April 1896.
> 'On the Influence of Carbonic Acid in the Air upon the Temperature
> of the Ground' by Svante Arrhenius
What's your point? Or is it a secret?
Jim
Mark Schaffer
concluded that you are dense enough to bend light around and/or
disingenuous enough to be a neo-con.
Jim McGinn
> His point, Jim, is obvious to all, apparently, but you. I have already
> concluded that you are dense enough to bend light around and/or
> disingenuous enough to be a neo-con.
>
If you whackos can't support your arguments then don't make them.
Mark Schaffer
NASA, RealClimate, Science, any good research library at a University,
and on and on all have the evidence. There is no lack of evidence to
support the reality of potentially dangerous climate change but there
is a lack of evidence supporting the proposition that you are
intelligent enough to understand this evidence. With that in mind feel
free to rant on. The rest of us will work to undo the damage you and
other not so bright people are inflicting on the world at large.
Jim McGinn
> All the support we need is already at your fingertips. The IPCC, NAS,
> NASA, RealClimate, Science, any good research library at a University,
> and on and on all have the evidence. There is no lack of evidence to
> support the reality of potentially dangerous climate
This is a true statement. So is this variation:
There is no lack of evidence to support the reality of potentially
beneficial climate
si...@situ.com
Jim McGinn <jimm...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
>
><si...@situ.com> wrote
>
>> while i may not speak for Mr Tobis, i will point out that the argument
>> from classical radiative physics is very well known for more than a
>> century.
>
>What argument?
the name of the paper, which is included in your response below is
'On the Influence of Carbonic Acid in the Air upon the Temperature
of the Ground'
the calculation in the paper establishes that an increase in the CO2
('Carbonic Acid') content of the atmosphere will result in an increase
in the 'Temperature of the Ground'
i do urge you again to read and work through the paper, it is really
a fine work piece from late 19th century science that has withstood
a century of inspection.
snip--
>> Philosophical Magazine and Journal of Science,
>> Fifth Series, page 237 et seq., April 1896.
>> 'On the Influence of Carbonic Acid in the Air upon the Temperature
>> of the Ground' by Svante Arrhenius
sidd
H2-PV NOW
Jim McGinn wrote:
> What's your point? Or is it a secret?
Jim McGinn begin to spin the mortal sin of lies worn thin, his din of
has-been tactics herein a siamese twin of crooks, kissing kin of
pigskin, gets his foreskin pinned in a tailspin to his chagrin. He'll
never win, play the sad violin, he cops it on the chin.
Sparky @zig-zag.net wrote:
> http://snipurl.com/opq6
> Google Results "Jim McGinn" arrest warrant issued.
> http://snipurl.com/oppy
> Google Results: "Jim McGinn" arrested for fraud.
> Does anybody know if this is the same McGinn that used to post on
> sci.environment? I always knew he would turn up bad in the end, all his
> association with organized crime figures.
> http://snipurl.com/opqb
> Google Results "Jim McGinn" connected to organized crime.
It looks like there are reports that Jim McGinn has been arrested for
fraud.
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The evidence was discovered after a search warrant of Jim McGinn's Cato
desk and employee locker
Jim McGinn
<si...@situ.com> wrote in message
news:TMlZf.85083$g91....@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
> In article <pWcZf.44991$_S7.2...@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>,
> Jim McGinn <jimm...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>><si...@situ.com> wrote
>>
>>> while i may not speak for Mr Tobis, i will point out that the argument
>>> from classical radiative physics is very well known for more than a
>>> century.
>>
>>What argument?
>
> the name of the paper, which is included in your response below is
> 'On the Influence of Carbonic Acid in the Air upon the Temperature
> of the Ground'
>
> the calculation in the paper establishes that an increase in the CO2
> ('Carbonic Acid') content of the atmosphere will result in an increase
> in the 'Temperature of the Ground'
>
> i do urge you again to read and work through the paper, it is really
> a fine work piece from late 19th century science that has withstood
> a century of inspection.
Okay. I just read the paper. Here's a link to it:
http://web.lemoyne.edu/~GIUNTA/Arrhenius.html
I'm sorry but I just don't see anything in here that confirms Michael
Tobis's claim to have an argument involving, "classical radiative physics,"
that indicates catastrophic AGW? All I see is a general discussion about
the influence of carbobic acid (and CO2) on temperature. Not only do I not
see anything catastrophic about CO2 in any of this but there are aspects to
this that suggest that CO2 (and GW) may be a good thing. (If nothing else
this paper shows that variations in CO2 have been much more dramatic in the
past.)
Keep in mind that a return to ice age conditions would essentially bring
western civilization to an end. And despite the positive effect this would
have on ski conditions not everybody would consider this a good thing. All
in all, with respect to the huge losses associated with a return to ice age
conditions the costs associated with GW seem rather modest to me especiallly
considering they may serve to lessen the intensity of a return to ice age
conditions. Maybe we should, at least, consider the possibility that CO2 in
the atmosphere may be a good thing.
(If only we could keep the ideological bozos, on both the left and the
right, to stay out of the discussion.)
Jim
Mark Schaffer
"This is a true statement. So is this variation:
There is no lack of evidence to support the reality of potentially
beneficial climate"
and did so without any supporting evidence at all from any reputable
source.
D Smith
>"Michael Tobis" <mto...@gmail.com> wrote
>References?
What kind of references do you want him to provide?
a) references you'll later pretend don't exist
b) references you'll pretend don't support his claim
c) references you won't bother to look at
d) references you'll misunderstand and misquote from
e) references you'll claim are "part of the conspiracy"
f) references you'll take the time to read, understand, and discuss
honestly?
I'm sure he can give you lots that would be useful under (f), but
you've already shown your dishonesty by removing and ignoring the rest
of his post (after the "I stand by the quote above").
D Smith
><si...@situ.com> wrote
>> while i may not speak for Mr Tobis, i will point out that the argument
>> from classical radiative physics is very well known for more than a
>> century.
>What argument?
The one written in the paper he provided the reference to, perhaps?
>>
>> i understand from some of your previous posts that you are most sceptical
>> and disbelieving of large numerical models requiring extensive
>> computation.
>> i therefore suggest you read the following paper
>>
>> Philosophical Magazine and Journal of Science,
>> Fifth Series, page 237 et seq., April 1896.
>> 'On the Influence of Carbonic Acid in the Air upon the Temperature
>> of the Ground' by Svante Arrhenius
>What's your point? Or is it a secret?
OK, so you don't even know what a "reference" is then? What he has
given you is a "reference" (what you asked for). When given a reference
to existing material, the idea is that you will then go and look up the
paper/book/article that is listed (sometimes using something called a
"library"), read it, and then (hopefully) come back and discuss its
contents in a rational fashion.
To give you a bit more help, the "reference" tells you the name of
the journal, the volume (year and month in this case), page number,
title, and author of the article he is suggesting you read.
To help you a little more, the article in question represents
an "argument from classical radiative physics". The item that you
seem to deny exists....
H2-PV NOW
Jim McGinn wrote:
> (If only we could keep the ideological bozos, on both the left and the
> right, to stay out of the discussion.)
You are given LEGAL NOTICE that you are aiding and abetting an
ORGANIZED CRIME FELONY FRAUD operation, that you have joined in an
"enterprise" as defined by law, have committed one or more acts of
fraud using WIRES or U.S. Mail in collaboration with the illegal
enterprise. From this date forward any further actions on your part to
aid this enterprise are legally considered prima facia premeditated,
willful intent to violate FEDERAL LAW.
SEPPtic Tank is an ORGANIZED CRIME front operation headed by lifelong
career-criminal S. Fred Singer.
In 1994 Singer wrote a science hoax piece for big tobacco. The piece
was submitted to RJ Reynolds lawyers pre-publication. The piece was
short some "peer-reviewers" so a request was made for some names of
tame "whitecoats" willing to lie for money to sign off on the document.
Ultimately a bunch of names appeared on this science hoax document, as
well as inside it's pages. The whole thing became evidence in the
FEDERAL trial of the Big Seven Tobacco Companies in the late 1990s. The
documents were produced by subpoena (a turm meaning "under pain", like
we will hurt you bad if you don't comply). The evidence passed due
process of law in a trial admitted as evidence. The judge ordered the
evidence posted online for 10 years at Big Tobacco's expense -- oh,
year, the Tobacco Companies also agreed to pay $246,000,000,000.00 too.
Fred Singer is corrupt and I have seen the evidence from the trial that
proved he is corrupt. He is an ORGANIZED CRIME figure who uses science
hoaxes for corporate clients to falsify the state of knowledge on
subjects his clients need confused and obfuscated.
SEPP was organized in the premises of a Sun Myung Moon-owned office
suite. Moon is also a career criminal who was convicted of tax evasion
and money laundering, sent to FREDERAL PRISON, and is a known felon
convict.
FRED SINGER's SEPPtic Tank moved to the offices of Charles G. Koch
Summer Fellows Program at the Koch-owned George Mason University.
Killer Charles G. Koch and brother Killer David Koch operate KOCH
INDUSTRIES, which itself has been convicted of the largest fine in
corporate history -- $35,000,000.00 for pollution of air, lands and
waters of six states.
http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2000/January/019enrd.htm
http://www.motherjones.com/news/special_reports/mojo_400/51_koch.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A37628-2004Jul8.html
http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress.nsf/0/981d17e5ab07246f8525686500621079?OpenDocument
Charges G. Koch co-founded CATO Inst., David Koch sits on it's board
watching the family interests, and SINGER, MILLOY, MICHAELS, LINDZEN &
BALLING are all organized crime figures on the payrolls of a known
ORGANIZED CRIME ring founded by known ORGANIZED CRIME Lords.
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http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Singer-1993-1994.html
http://www.atlasusa.org/highlight_archive/1995/H1995-02-Environment.html
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Organized Crimes.
Jim McGinn
"D Smith" <maji...@accesscomm.ca> wrote
>>> " . . . the
>>> core of the evidence that we need to be concerned about anthropogenic
>>> emissions does not come from model runs, but from relatively
>>> straightforward
>>> arguments in classical radiative physics?"
>>>
>>> I stand by the quote above.
>
>>References?
>
> What kind of references do you want him to provide?
>
> a) references you'll later pretend don't exist
So far pretense is unnecessary.
Michael Tobis
It is unreasonable to call anything of the sort "Tobis's claim".
For your reference, here is my claim:
> the core of
> the evidence that we need to be concerned about anthropogenic emissions
> does not come from model runs, but from relatively straightforward
> arguments in classical radiative physics.
mt
Jim McGinn
"D Smith" <maji...@accesscomm.ca> \
>>> while i may not speak for Mr Tobis, i will point out that the argument
>>> from classical radiative physics is very well known for more than a
>>> century.
>
>>What argument?
>
> The one written in the paper he provided the reference to, perhaps?
Why not respond directly to my rebuttal.
>
>
>>>
>>> i understand from some of your previous posts that you are most
>>> sceptical
>>> and disbelieving of large numerical models requiring extensive
>>> computation.
>>> i therefore suggest you read the following paper
>>>
>>> Philosophical Magazine and Journal of Science,
>>> Fifth Series, page 237 et seq., April 1896.
>>> 'On the Influence of Carbonic Acid in the Air upon the Temperature
>>> of the Ground' by Svante Arrhenius
>
>>What's your point? Or is it a secret?
>
> OK, so you don't even know what a "reference" is then? What he has
> given you is a "reference" (what you asked for). When given a reference
> to existing material, the idea is that you will then go and look up the
> paper/book/article that is listed (sometimes using something called a
> "library"), read it, and then (hopefully) come back and discuss its
> contents in a rational fashion.
Uh, I did.
>
> To give you a bit more help, the "reference" tells you the name of
> the journal, the volume (year and month in this case), page number,
> title, and author of the article he is suggesting you read.
>
> To help you a little more, the article in question represents
> an "argument from classical radiative physics". The item that you
> seem to deny exists....
You misrepresent the true nature of my request. I advise that you go back
upthread and read it again.
H2-PV NOW
Jim McGinn wrote:
> You misrepresent the true nature of my request. I advise that you go back
> upthread and read it again.
Reminder of Jim McGinn's request for those who do not save past news
posts:
http://snipurl.com/ouso
Results for Jim McGinn Collecting Sperm Donations
http://snipurl.com/ousv
Results 1 - 100 of about 311 for Jim McGinn Collecting Sperm Donations.
Jim McGinn
"Michael Tobis" <mto...@gmail.com> wrote
Well then you admit that you have no relatively straightforward arguments in
classical radiative physics that indicate catastrophic AGW. Right?
D Smith
>"D Smith" <maji...@accesscomm.ca> \
>>>> while i may not speak for Mr Tobis, i will point out that the argument
>>>> from classical radiative physics is very well known for more than a
>>>> century.
>>
>>>What argument?
>>
>> The one written in the paper he provided the reference to, perhaps?
>Why not respond directly to my rebuttal.
I havent' seen anything remotely resembling a "rebuttal".
>>>> Philosophical Magazine and Journal of Science,
>>>> Fifth Series, page 237 et seq., April 1896.
>>>> 'On the Influence of Carbonic Acid in the Air upon the Temperature
>>>> of the Ground' by Svante Arrhenius
>>
>>>What's your point? Or is it a secret?
>>
>> OK, so you don't even know what a "reference" is then? What he has
>> given you is a "reference" (what you asked for). When given a reference
>> to existing material, the idea is that you will then go and look up the
>> paper/book/article that is listed (sometimes using something called a
>> "library"), read it, and then (hopefully) come back and discuss its
>> contents in a rational fashion.
>Uh, I did.
No, you didn't. (Oops. It's already sounding like the Monty Python
argument skit, isn't it?)
You're not actually very good at this, are you? I've only been reading
the newsgroup for a few days (well, at least for the first time in many
years) and I can already tell you don't have anything substantive to say.
>>
>> To give you a bit more help, the "reference" tells you the name of
>> the journal, the volume (year and month in this case), page number,
>> title, and author of the article he is suggesting you read.
>>
>> To help you a little more, the article in question represents
>> an "argument from classical radiative physics". The item that you
>> seem to deny exists....
>You misrepresent the true nature of my request. I advise that you go back
>upthread and read it again.
I'm dealing with the part where you asked for "references", and the
part where you denied there was an "argument from classical radiative
physics". When provided with references to an argument, you're playing
stupid.
Oh, sorry. You're probably not "playing".
D Smith
>"Michael Tobis" <mto...@gmail.com> wrote
So, you admit that you're creating a strawman. Right?
He also doesn't have any arguments in classical radiative physics that
say the moon is made of green cheese.
Your "see, I was right" argument does nothing to refute Michael's
position. Although I'm sure you'll continue to pretend it does.
Jim McGinn
"D Smith" <maji...@accesscomm.ca> wrote
> Your "see, I was right" argument does nothing to refute Michael's
> position. Although I'm sure you'll continue to pretend it does.
And you will continue to pretend that Michael has presented his position.
Coby Beck
news:2CxZf.13434$tN3....@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
> Keep in mind that a return to ice age conditions would essentially bring
> western civilization to an end.
References?
--
Coby Beck
(remove #\Space "coby 101 @ bigpond . com")
Jim McGinn
"D Smith" <maji...@accesscomm.ca> wrote
> I havent' seen anything remotely resembling a "rebuttal".
Look harder.
>
>
>>>>> Philosophical Magazine and Journal of Science,
>>>>> Fifth Series, page 237 et seq., April 1896.
>>>>> 'On the Influence of Carbonic Acid in the Air upon the Temperature
>>>>> of the Ground' by Svante Arrhenius
>>>
>>>>What's your point? Or is it a secret?
>>>
>>> OK, so you don't even know what a "reference" is then? What he has
>>> given you is a "reference" (what you asked for). When given a reference
>>> to existing material, the idea is that you will then go and look up the
>>> paper/book/article that is listed (sometimes using something called a
>>> "library"), read it, and then (hopefully) come back and discuss its
>>> contents in a rational fashion.
>
>>Uh, I did.
>
> No, you didn't.
I did.
(Oops. It's already sounding like the Monty Python
> argument skit, isn't it?)
>
> You're not actually very good at this, are you? I've only been reading
> the newsgroup for a few days (well, at least for the first time in many
> years) and I can already tell you don't have anything substantive to say.
>
>
>>>
>>> To give you a bit more help, the "reference" tells you the name of
>>> the journal, the volume (year and month in this case), page number,
>>> title, and author of the article he is suggesting you read.
>>>
>>> To help you a little more, the article in question represents
>>> an "argument from classical radiative physics". The item that you
>>> seem to deny exists....
>
>>You misrepresent the true nature of my request. I advise that you go back
>>upthread and read it again.
>
> I'm dealing with the part where you asked for "references", and the
> part where you denied there was an "argument from classical radiative
> physics".
Never happened. You are guilty of creative reading.
When provided with references to an argument, you're playing
> stupid.
No, I wouldn't pretend to compete with you on this.
Michael Tobis
a thing, not a hypothesis.
Nothing in classical physics indicates that hippopotamus, either. So
what?
Offer a refutable statement, and I may be inclined to agree or
disagree, tentatively or wholeheartedly, with it. Such a statement, P,
will be at least syntactically and semantically meaningful in the
assertion "it is the case that P". My claim is
It is the case that
>>> the core of
>>> the evidence that we need to be concerned about anthropogenic emissions
>>> does not come from model runs, but from relatively straightforward
>>> arguments in classical radiative physics.
You have refused to take a position on whether you stipulate that the
physics in question is correct. Until you do, I can make no further
progress in defending my position.
You have accused me of failing to prove something else that you refuse
to define and that to all appearances is not a proposition.
If you have some hypothesis with which you agree or disagree that you'd
like to discuss, please begin by stating it clearly.
mt
Jim McGinn
"Michael Tobis" <mto...@gmail.com> wrote
You can't say I didn't offer you the opportunity to retract your statement.
Mark Schaffer
Why are you "stuck on stupid" when it would just be easier for you to
admit you don't understand any of this? What drives you to be so
completely irrational that you would rather continue to contribute to a
worldview so destructive of humanity? Are you a paid shill, a
idealogue, religiously driven, mentally ill, or just arrogant and
stupid? Why are you simply unwilling to admit error???
H2-PV NOW
Jim McGinn is akin to a suicide-bomber who is willing to blow himself
up and blow up your world because his masters have told him to do that.
He has no rational control. He is a zombie hypnotized to be a human
grenade to disrupt discussions that would interfer with the bizarre
plans of his masters.
He is incapable of explaining himself. He can't tell you the simplest
things, like his real name, his location, his hobbys, his achievements.
He is a hollowed out thing, a simacrulum of a human being, devoid of
personality or self-guidence.
I've seen trained attack dogs with more independence of will and
greater intelligence. McGinn is some "thing" who can't pass a Turing
Test to prove he is human.
Michael Tobis
Trolls rarely know or care about the community or topic they disrupt.
mt
Jim McGinn
I'm incapable of eror.
Coby Beck
news:1144481144....@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
My money is on paid shill. We know that this is a technique being actively
promoted by industries opposed to GW mitigation and he exhibits a very
dedicated purpose and employs all the standard techniques and arguments. I
have seen nothing original from him nor any evidence of a sincere response.
Jonathan Kirwan
wrote:
I actually know two others reasonably closely, and one personally who
has discussed it, who are paid money to do this kind of thing. In
other words, paid to "appear" as just an interested party and paid to
avoid ever admitting it as such, the purpose being to influence public
opinion about a company or gov't or subject matter. The internet is a
free-for-all and there are few standards that are enforced (and only
locally, if at all) and few agencies with any ability to enforce (and
again, only with local control -- there is no international crime law
in this case.)
In the case of the one person I know closely, they are paid by the
gov't (not the US, in this case) and work out of an embassy office.
Very bright, very capable. And knowing the person, something that
makes me well understand the likelihood and frequency with which this
is done. It would not surprise me in the least to imagine that in the
situation of the environment, with so much at stake for so many (not
just companies, but gov'ts as well), that there would be more than a
few of these and at least two or more in this group alone. There is
money out there for this activity.
Jon
Coby Beck
news:qe4g32ph7dv3g1cmo...@4ax.com...
I don't have any links handy, but I believe it was Greg Palast from the
Guardian who did an exposee of this kind of "PR" tactic on blogs and usenet.
Given that the kind of person who would be doing that for a corporation (at
least in my envisioning of how it would work) would be young and either
inexperienced or not very bright, ie not more useful doing something else,
perhaps some of these people could end up being turned from their current
path?
Sorry, just a brief slip of optimism there ;)
Jim McGinn
"Coby Beck" <cb...@mercury.bc.ca> wrote
> I have seen nothing original from him nor any evidence of a sincere
> response.
I think it's your own ignorance inspired arrogance that brings you to the
conclusion that this debate requires anything original. It doesn't. The
points that I have here have already been made and ignored previously in
this NG.
Causality is established/empirical science.
I think you need to ask yourself why it is that Dr. Hansen refused/failed to
reveal the fact that the accuracy of his models is--inescapably--less than
0.01%.
Eric Swanson
OK, troll thing, just what do you mean by "accuracy of his models is less than
0.01%"?? Start by giving us a definition of "accuracy"....
--
Eric Swanson --- E-mail address: e_swanson(at)skybest.com :-)
--------------------------------------------------------------
Jim McGinn
"Eric Swanson" <swa...@NoScrewingAround.net> wrote
> OK, troll thing, just what do you mean by "accuracy of his models is less
> than
> 0.01%"?? Start by giving us a definition of "accuracy"....
See my post entitled The Butterfly Rules.
H2-PV NOW
Jim McGinn wrote:
> I think you need to ask yourself why it is that Dr. Hansen refused/failed to
> reveal the fact that the accuracy of his models is--inescapably--less than
> 0.01%.
You made a statement of fact, but have not personally verified the
facts of the matter. In fact, you have presented no evidence that you
are capable of understanding the science involved or drawing any kind
of independent assessment of the facts.
You have established a track record of lying through unsported
statements of fact which you have never personally verified for
accuracy. You have been repeatedly notified, LEGAL NOTICE, that
criminal fraud on this subject is occurring, and the laws in states
where your messages appear prohibit aiding and abetting criminal
frauds. The laws further impose a mandatory duty to personally
investigate and verify questionable facts before promulgating them as
if they were true.
http://snipurl.com/oqpk
Results for "Jim McGinn" AND Organized Crime.
Useful Models or "How many epicycles is that"
Jim McGinn wrote: ... thereby strengthening the case against the
organized crime rings ... ORGANIZED CRIME ring founded by known
ORGANIZED CRIME Lords. ...
http://www.groupsrv.com/science/post-1347818.html - 58k
Useful Models or "How many epicycles is that"
http://snipurl.com/opqb Google Results "Jim McGinn" connected to
organized crime. ... Results about 23 for "Jim McGinn" AND Organized
Crime. ...
www.groupsrv.com/science/post-1351819.html - 81k - Apr 7, 2006
[ More results from www.groupsrv.com ]
Mailgate.ORG Web Server: sci.environment
Shills post propaganda for ORGANIZED CRIME, Jim McGinn 28/03/2006 Re:
Global Warming Is Greatest ... That CATO is an ORGANIZED CRIME run
operat, Jim McGinn ...
mailgate.supereva.com/sci/sci.environment/sort.html - 94k
Mailgate.ORG Web Server: sci.environment
31/03/2006 Re: Climate not as sensitive as previous, Jim McGinn
31/03/2006 More Evidence of McGinn Felony Crime Pre, H2-PV NOW ...
mailgate.supereva.com/sci/sci.environment/ - 95k
sci.environment
The ORGANIZED CRIME figure, Jim McGinn asks the rightard shill O'Hara
where to get unsubstantiated fake science hoax ammo. H2-PV NOW, Sat, 1
Apr 2006, ...
news-reader.org/sci.environment/ - 12k
MED: Bush Cybersome Group 2: 25 new messages in 21 topics - digest
Crime-doer Ms Jim McGinn about to get cherry-popping experience in
cellblock ... ORGANIZED CRIME FELONY FRAUD operation, that you have
joined in an ...
med.nomadlife.org/2006/04/25-new-messages-in-21-topi_114419476149898734.html
- 79k
MED: Bush Cybersome Group 2: 25 new messages in 20 topics - digest
Gee, Jim McGinn actually has the hubris to think he ... ORGANIZED
CRIME FELONY FRAUD operation, that you have joined in an "enterprise"
as defined by law, ...
med.nomadlife.org/2006/04/25-new-messages-in-20-topi_114403292604261107.html
- 83k
[ More results from med.nomadlife.org ]
1001newsgroups.com sci.environment
It is WRONG for Jim McGinn to Commit Fraud using WIRES, like
internet... ... Shills post propaganda for ORGANIZED CRIME on Usenet?
Yes it is tr ...
http://www.1001annonces.com/1001newsgroups/lmess.php?name=sci.environment
- 427k
Groupes Google : sci.environment - [ Translate this page ]
Jim McGinn LIES for Organized Crime Frauds, 53 nouveau(x) sur 53 ...
Jim McGinn still SPAMMING group on behalf of ORGANIZED CRIME FRAUDS, 6
nouveau(x) sur 6 ...
http://groups.google.fr/group/sci.environment?gvc=2&hl=fr - 62k
Is You Job Next
The FCC came in and blamed the three top managers Jim McGinn, Pat Russo
CEO of Avaya ... Make no mistake I am saying Organized Crime and
Corporate Special ...
http://www.h1bvisasucks.com/H1BDiscussions_issue_job.htm - 171k
sci.environment (date)
Shills post propaganda for ORGANIZED CRIME on Usenet? Yes it is true.,
Jim McGinn, 20:28; Re: Is This True? Shills post propaganda for
ORGANIZED CRIME on ...
http://www.archivum.info/sci.environment/2006-03/index.html - 258k
>From npar...@hotmail.com Thu Jan 6 01:29:40 2005 From: npartyhat ...
... to tell you that an organized hate group From the portland metro
area plans to ... contact Stephanie Reynolds, Crime Prevention Program
Coordinator for ...
lists.2gyrlz.org/pipermail/pdxsalon/2005-January.txt.gz - 167k -
Supplemental Result
Archive for August, 2005
... late husband, Jim McGinn, a graduate of the Benton Area Schools in
1948. ... 1859, the Presbyterian congregation in Raven Creek was
organized during a ...
http://www.bentonnews.net/Archive/aug/Aug05.htm - 220k
Google-ryhmät : sci.environment
The ORGANIZED CRIME figure, Jim McGinn asks the rightard shill O'Hara
where to get unsubstantiated fake science hoax ammo. 4 uutta 4
viestistä ...
http://groups.google.fi/group/sci.environment?gvc=2&hl=fi - 63k
?????? Google : sci.environment
[link] Google Results "Jim McGinn" arrest warrant issued. ... he would
turn up bad in the end, all his association with organized crime
figures.... ??? » ...
http://groups.google.co.il/group/sci.environment?lnk=rgh - 64k
Google ????: alt.global-warming
... 4 ??4 ????, Jim McGinn (3 ???), ??3?18? ... Gray participated in an
ORGANIZED CRIME Fraud in 2002, 23 ??23 ????, Scott Nudds (10 ? ...
http://groups.google.com.hk/group/alt.global-warming?gvc=2&hl=zh-TW -
64k
[PDF] Richard L. Weller
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat
Surviving are her four children, April HOOVER and son-in-law Jim
McGINN of ... sheriff's department; special agent for Insurance Crime
Prevention, Chicago; ...
www.fulco.lib.in.us/genealogy/Tombaugh/Obituaries/Pdf/1995.pdf -
Similar pages
[ More results from www.fulco.lib.in.us ]
Google Groups : sci.environment
What Matters is What KOCH ORGANIZED CRIME Want people to Hear -- Jim
McGinn is their paid agent. 10 new of 10, H2-PV NOW (7 authors), Mar 31
...
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.environment?gvc=2 - 63k
Jonathan Kirwan
wrote:
I haven't read it. The point I was trying to make is that this isn't
just some theory. It is a fact of life. I don't want anyone to
imagine that they attend a newsgroup that is immune to this kind of
influence. I'm almost certain that it happens right here, right now.
It's immediate and real and applies to a few names seen here, I'm
certain.
>Given that the kind of person who would be doing that for a corporation (at
>least in my envisioning of how it would work) would be young and either
>inexperienced or not very bright, ie not more useful doing something else,
>perhaps some of these people could end up being turned from their current
>path?
>
>Sorry, just a brief slip of optimism there ;)
The individual I happen to know is independently wealthy at a level I
could only dream about, and very bright and well educated. He cares
about the world, deeply, and he puts his own life on the line to do
the right thing in troubled, war-torn areas. However, he also spends
at least as much time spamming boards for his gov't, ensconced in an
embassy and doing the "good work" of pushing his gov'ts views on an
unsuspecting world of internet chat boards and newsgroups. He's not
young and certainly not inexperienced.
Jon
Eric Swanson
I did and you didn't.
D Smith
>"D Smith" <maji...@accesscomm.ca> wrote
Oh, dear. I guess it must be a subconcious reaction. Obviously deeply
ingrained.
Here I thought you were just dishonest. I guess you must be delusional.
D Smith
>Okay. I just read the paper. Here's a link to it:
>http://web.lemoyne.edu/~GIUNTA/Arrhenius.html
>I'm sorry but I just don't see anything in here that confirms Michael
>Tobis's claim to have an argument involving, "classical radiative physics,"
>that indicates catastrophic AGW? All I see is a general discussion about
There he is, creating the strawman again. In spite of Michael's
repeated correction of Jim's false representation of Michael's position,
Jim continues to repeat it.
Jim McGinn
"D Smith" <maji...@accesscomm.ca> wrote
Actually exactly the opposite is the case. Michael attempted to "strawman"
the question I asked him (a tactic typical to newsgroups). He got caught.
End of story.
Science Cop
Jim McGinn wrote:
> End of story.
Why does "Jim McGinn" name pop up when searching Cato Institute
"Organized Crime"?
How did search terms: Cato Institute "Organized Crime" become synomous
with "Jim McGinn"?
Easy. Practice, practice, practice. In the few short weeks that agent
McGinn has attempted to be a disrupter of usenet environmental groups
he has associated himself with Killer Koch Brothers Organized Crime
operations, including Cato Institute, so strongly that GOOGLE.COM
automatically pops Jim McGinn up to the top of the list if you look up
Cato Institute "Organized Crime".
Looking up "Fred Singer" "Organized Crime" also puts Jim McGinn at the
top of the list.
http://snipurl.com/owo7
Results 1 - 100 of 116 for "Fred Singer" "Organized Crime"
But CATO INSTITUTE has far more Organized Crime links on record...
... In fact, Cato co-founder Charles G. Koch, and David Koch director
of Cato were both called ORGANIZED CRIME by David Koch's twin-brother
Bill on CBS national television...
http://snipurl.com/owoc
Results for "Bill Koch" "Organized Crime"
http://snipurl.com/owok
Results about 81 for "Bill Koch" "Organized Crime".
Here's the Jim McGinn links to Cato Institute "Organized Crime"
http://snipurl.com/ownc
Results 1 - 100 of 1,700 for Cato Institute "Organized Crime"
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.environment/msg/133e24abf1bbb1ad
Chris Landsea -- Known Associate of Organized Crime Figures.
... Exxon and Killer Koch Brother$ are the two organized crime ring$
Land$ea mo ... People
http://snipurl.com/owka Results about 693 for Chris Landsea CATO
Institute. ...
sci.environment - Apr 8, 4:38 pm - 4 messages - 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.environment/msg/ff52a19fab5dd08c
The Right Question (Is Jim McGinn a Koch-Sucker?)
... McGinn" fellatio OR "Koch-Sucker" http://snipurl.com/oqpk Results
about 23 for
"Jim McGinn" AND Organized Crime. ... Lying is the Cato Institute's
stock and trade. ...
sci.environment - Apr 8, 4:20 pm - 25 messages - 9 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.environment/msg/ee649ababcc135f5
Jim McGinn Admitting you have a problem is the first step
... http://snipurl.com/oqpk Results about 23 for "Jim McGinn" AND
Organized Crime. ... otsv
Thorough investigation of Jim McGinn's connections to Cato Institute as
a ...
sci.environment - Apr 8, 1:24 am - 10 messages - 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.global-warming/msg/f93e3c7632b309bc
Cato Employee Jim McGinn's opinions are given by his employer
... OpenDocument Charges G. Koch co-founded CATO Inst., David ... CRIME
ring founded by known
ORGANIZED CRIME Lords. ... 101 Fairfax, VA 22030 IHS | "Institute for
Humane ...
alt.global-warming - Apr 7, 3:07 pm - 11 messages - 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.global-warming/msg/f9a8dbd9a38b5ef8
There is no "debate", just organized crime creation of "appearance of
controversy".
... http://snipurl.com/oqpk Results about 23 for "Jim McGinn" AND
Organized Crime. ... otsv
Thorough investigation of Jim McGinn's connections to Cato Institute as
a ...
alt.global-warming - Apr 7, 2:50 pm - 25 messages - 10 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.environment/msg/f428e32c36b9af9e
Bait and Switch
... http://snipurl.com/oqpk Results about 23 for "Jim McGinn" AND
Organized Crime. ... otsv
Thorough investigation of Jim McGinn's connections to Cato Institute as
a ...
sci.environment - Apr 7, 2:19 pm - 57 messages - 12 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.environment/msg/4c8ee049f18ece15
60 minutes, tipping point speculation, and blatant propaganda
... OpenDocument Charges G. Koch co-founded CATO Inst., David ... CRIME
ring founded by known
ORGANIZED CRIME Lords. ... 101 Fairfax, VA 22030 IHS | "Institute for
Humane ...
sci.environment - Apr 7, 12:49 am - 5 messages - 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.global-warming/msg/47d66e78bfc5b5e4
Ms McGinn Be Very Afraid of your weight-lifter cellmate after ...
... TCS and (OILMEN KOCH SPONSORED) CATO FELLOW, Richard ... for "Roy
W. Spencer" "Discovery
Institute" In Science ... with publically known organized crime persons
Singer ...
alt.global-warming - Apr 4, 8:18 pm by Global_Warming @Peacemail.com -
58 messages - 18 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.environment/msg/068f06f7ee29f4eb
O'HARA: You need to stand in court and explain your alliance ...
... OpenDocument Charges G. Koch co-founded CATO Inst., David ... CRIME
ring founded by known
ORGANIZED CRIME Lords. ... 101 Fairfax, VA 22030 IHS | "Institute for
Humane ...
sci.environment - Apr 4, 4:51 pm by Global_Warming @Peacemail.com - 38
messages - 12 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.environment/msg/4c1fcd58b823e278
Former whore for CATO, Ms Jim McGinn to turn tricks on cellblock ...
... OpenDocument Charges G. Koch co-founded CATO Inst., David ... CRIME
ring founded by known
ORGANIZED CRIME Lords. ... 101 Fairfax, VA 22030 IHS | "Institute for
Humane ...
sci.environment - Apr 4, 4:42 pm by Global_Warming @Peacemail.com - 49
messages - 17 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.environment/msg/4ffd6eeb98c5bb12
Jim McGinn continues to peddle felony fraud
... OpenDocument Charges G. Koch co-founded CATO Inst., David ... CRIME
ring founded by known
ORGANIZED CRIME Lords. ... 101 Fairfax, VA 22030 IHS | "Institute for
Humane ...
sci.environment - Apr 4, 2:08 pm - 67 messages - 10 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.rush-limbaugh/msg/69f03f9d8ffeae15
Global warming LIARS need to go to PRISON for Felony Fraud
... OpenDocument Charges G. Koch co-founded CATO Inst., David ... CRIME
ring founded by known
ORGANIZED CRIME Lords. ... 101 Fairfax, VA 22030 IHS | "Institute for
Humane ...
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh - Apr 4, 12:16 pm by Global Warming @ARMY.com -
139 messages - 25 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.global-warming/msg/2a088fc88b62a097
Gray patricipated in an ORGANIZED CRIME Fraud in 2002
... CRIME Fraud in 2002 APCO ASSociates is a known organized crime
science fraud ... and
Senior Fellow in Environmental Studies at the Cato Institute, both in
...
alt.global-warming - Apr 4, 11:10 am by Global Warming @ARMY.com - 25
messages - 10 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.environment/msg/68d3d13b5cccc374
Will-ful Deception Jim McGinn and other Rightwingers Criminal ...
... OpenDocument Charges G. Koch co-founded CATO Inst., David ... CRIME
ring founded by known
ORGANIZED CRIME Lords. ... 101 Fairfax, VA 22030 IHS | "Institute for
Humane ...
sci.environment - Apr 4, 10:54 am by Global Warming @ARMY.com - 5
messages - 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.environment/msg/63d19cfb5964a9bf
Jim McGinn continues to LIE for Organized Crime.
... OpenDocument Charges G. Koch co-founded CATO Inst., David ... CRIME
ring founded by known
ORGANIZED CRIME Lords. ... 101 Fairfax, VA 22030 IHS | "Institute for
Humane ...
sci.environment - Apr 3, 8:34 pm by Global Warming @ARMY.com - 57
messages - 15 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.environment/msg/1c6f81d7d2f21ede
Jim McGinn continues spewing Organized Crime Fraud on newsgroup
... OpenDocument Charges G. Koch co-founded CATO Inst., David ... CRIME
ring founded by known
ORGANIZED CRIME Lords. ... 101 Fairfax, VA 22030 IHS | "Institute for
Humane ...
sci.environment - Apr 3, 12:31 pm by Global Warming @ARMY.com - 208
messages - 19 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.environment/msg/27f3fccee66967d2
Jim McGinn Lies about his knowledge and status
... OpenDocument Charges G. Koch co-founded CATO Inst., David ... CRIME
ring founded by known
ORGANIZED CRIME Lords. ... 101 Fairfax, VA 22030 IHS | "Institute for
Humane ...
sci.environment - Apr 2, 8:56 pm - 10 messages - 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.environment/msg/aa7d2ff518e75784
Jim McGinn still SPAMMING group on behalf of ORGANIZED CRIME ...
... OpenDocument Charges G. Koch co-founded CATO Inst., David ... CRIME
ring founded by known
ORGANIZED CRIME Lords. ... 101 Fairfax, VA 22030 IHS | "Institute for
Humane ...
sci.environment - Apr 2, 7:21 pm - 21 messages - 7 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.environment/msg/a0f3a0c2ab5aa791
Jim McGinn's Ravings of Professional Anti-Environmentalists
... OpenDocument Charges G. Koch co-founded CATO Inst., David ... CRIME
ring founded by known
ORGANIZED CRIME Lords. ... 101 Fairfax, VA 22030 IHS | "Institute for
Humane ...
sci.environment - Apr 2, 3:22 pm - 3 messages - 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.environment/msg/2fe657a4e6a77330
McGinn wants to know what good not breaking the law does him.
... OpenDocument Charges G. Koch co-founded CATO Inst., David ... CRIME
ring founded by known
ORGANIZED CRIME Lords. ... 101 Fairfax, VA 22030 IHS | "Institute for
Humane ...
sci.environment - Apr 1, 10:31 pm - 17 messages - 7 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.environment/msg/647bdf1aac174161
Jim McGinn's Phantom Enema Stick
... OpenDocument Charges G. Koch co-founded CATO Inst., David ... CRIME
ring founded by known
ORGANIZED CRIME Lords. ... 101 Fairfax, VA 22030 IHS | "Institute for
Humane ...
sci.environment - Mar 31, 10:01 pm - 47 messages - 12 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.environment/msg/24032995e2e78975
More Evidence of McGinn Premeditated Fraud Accomplice
... OpenDocument Charges G. Koch co-founded CATO Inst., David ... CRIME
ring founded by known
ORGANIZED CRIME Lords. ... 101 Fairfax, VA 22030 IHS | "Institute for
Humane ...
sci.environment - Mar 31, 3:25 am - 45 messages - 12 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.environment/msg/ddcf8b80a0b769e5
Mann's hockey stick wrong? More Evidence of McGinn Crimes.
... OpenDocument Charges G. Koch co-founded CATO Inst., David ... CRIME
ring founded by known
ORGANIZED CRIME Lords. ... 101 Fairfax, VA 22030 IHS | "Institute for
Humane ...
sci.environment - Mar 31, 12:01 am - 13 messages - 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.global-warming/msg/ac8e619437261b98
JAMES SOWS CONFUSION OVER GLOBAL WARMING -- A CON JOB?
... J. Michaels" | "Patrick Michaels". ORGANIZED CRIME OPERATION CATO
INSTITUTE
HIRES JUNKMAN STEVE MILLOY. http://tinyurl.com/hjhlq ...
alt.global-warming - Mar 27, 10:50 pm - 22 messages - 7 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.environment/msg/afa2cf8d69d13f8d
"Kennedy tries to halt windmills" Republican Organized Crime ...
... same old corporate string-pulling on the Republican Organized Crime
Borg troops ... running
the TechCentralBorgCollective.com, or Koch Oil's CATO Institute that is
...
sci.environment - Mar 3, 3:29 am - 29 messages - 7 authors
Let's Review The Global Warming Facts about sewer crawling ...
... In the past, Taylor has served as a legal analyst for Defenders of
Property Rights,
an intern at the Cato Institute, and a member of the Federalist
Society. ...
alt.global-warming - Feb 24, 3:33 am - 95 messages - 18 authors
MOONIE JAMES tries peddling propaganda from seedy organized-crime ...
... Fellow, the Heartland Institute In the past, Taylor has served as a
legal analyst
for Defenders of Property Rights, an intern at the Cato Institute, and
a ...
alt.global-warming - Jan 12, 1:06 am - 19 messages - 7 authors
Bush Loyalist Fired over Politics
... Bandow was also a senior Fellow at the Cato Institute. ... Knee
injuries are a
common affliction among people who rat out organized crime. ...
tx.politics - Dec 17 2005, 10:57 am by Sanders Kaufman - 1 message - 1
author
"Awe Shit" promotes Dr. Singer's wiew point... ahahaha...
... ecosyn.us/adti/Corrupt_CFACT.html Organized Crime Felony Conspiracy
to ... of Virginia
and Washington Institute for Values in Public Policy
http://www.cato.org/pubs ...
sci.environment - Nov 14 2005, 4:13 pm by hanson - 16 messages - 7
authors
LongmuirG is a Loyal Servent of Sun Myung Moon's Doctrine on ...
... ecosyn.us/adti/Corrupt_CFACT.html Organized Crime Felony Conspiracy
to ... of Virginia
and Washington Institute for Values in Public Policy
http://www.cato.org/pubs ...
alt.society.liberalism - Nov 13 2005, 8:33 pm by Sparky @zig-zag.net -
50 messages - 11 authors
French mostly don't use soap
... In a policy study published last year by the Cato Institute,
Patrick Fleenor ... more
cigarette bootlegging operations, most run by organized crime
syndicates. ...
misc.news.internet.discuss - Oct 15 2005, 2:51 am by cg - 53 messages -
12 authors
Soon: Variable solar irradiance as a plausible agent for...
... participated in a fraud event with known corporate organized crime
science hoaxers. ...
and Senior Fellow in Environmental Studies at the Cato Institute, both
in ...
sci.environment - Oct 11 2005, 1:07 pm by Global_Warming @Peacemail.com
- 12 messages - 6 authors
Open letter to readers of these two NGs
... participated in a fraud event with known corporate organized crime
science hoaxers. ...
and Senior Fellow in Environmental Studies at the Cato Institute, both
in ...
alt.global-warming - Oct 11 2005, 12:55 pm by Global_Warming
@Peacemail.com - 34 messages - 12 authors
Who are the "Killer Koch Brothers" and why are they paying liars ...
... include being President of the "Washington Institute for Values ...
The Destruction of
Science By Organized Crime http://www ... org/index.php?mapid=361 Cato
All People ...
alt.politics.bush - Oct 1 2005, 4:34 pm by Prescott Bush managed Nazi
Thyssen's Silesian Coal 1926-1942 - 1 message - 1 author
MAN-MADE GLOBAL WARMING threatens more cities with death and ...
... You know CATO Institute, right. ... People who are suckers for CATO
are known as
KOCH-Suckers ... of David H. Koch http://tinyurl.com/5wrdj Organized
Crime Ring Killer ...
alt.global-warming - Sep 29 2005, 9:55 pm by GayLopez69 - 31 messages -
10 authors
2003 heatwave 'may have sped up global warming'
First came organized crime in the form of John D. Rockefeller and
Standard Oil ... spawned
a large series of front organizations (like Cato Institute, Citizens
for ...
alt.global-warming - Sep 21 2005, 8:01 pm by Melchizedek - 33 messages
- 13 authors
Coby Beck
I agree with all the above.
>>Given that the kind of person who would be doing that for a corporation
>>(at
>>least in my envisioning of how it would work) would be young and either
>>inexperienced or not very bright, ie not more useful doing something else,
>>perhaps some of these people could end up being turned from their current
>>path?
>>
>>Sorry, just a brief slip of optimism there ;)
>
> The individual I happen to know is independently wealthy at a level I
> could only dream about, and very bright and well educated. He cares
> about the world, deeply, and he puts his own life on the line to do
> the right thing in troubled, war-torn areas. However, he also spends
> at least as much time spamming boards for his gov't, ensconced in an
> embassy and doing the "good work" of pushing his gov'ts views on an
> unsuspecting world of internet chat boards and newsgroups. He's not
> young and certainly not inexperienced.
That's why I specified someone doing this "for a corporation" to avoid the
complication of people who may actually believe in what they are doing. But
I do understand that there are all kinds of people with all kinds of
motivations.
c-bee1
"Science Cop" <scien...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:1144549429....@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
>
> Jim McGinn wrote:
>
> > End of story.
>
> Why does "Jim McGinn" name pop up when searching Cato Institute
> "Organized Crime"?
>
> How did search terms: Cato Institute "Organized Crime" become synomous
> with "Jim McGinn"?
>
> Easy. Practice, practice, practice. In the few short weeks that agent
> McGinn has attempted to be a disrupter of usenet environmental groups
> he has associated himself with Killer Koch Brothers Organized Crime
> operations, including Cato Institute, so strongly that GOOGLE.COM
> automatically pops Jim McGinn up to the top of the list if you look up
> Cato Institute "Organized Crime".
cuckoo cuckoo cuckoo
Michael Tobis
AGW" are your words, that I never asserted anything like that, and that
I don't think "indicates catastrophic AGW" has a clear meaning?
I said that classical physics was at the core of an argument that we
need to be concerned about AGW, and that computer models were not
needed to justify policy action. I am willing to discuss this, and made
several attempts to communicate. I refuse, however, to allow you or
anyone else to misquote or misrepresent me.
Do you know what a "straw man argument" is? If so, which one did I
present?
mt
frugal earth dweller
Global Warming @ARMY.com
> cuckoo cuckoo cuckoo
So. You deny that using google.com to search for keywords about CATO
INSTITUTE "ORGANIZED CRIME" produces dozens of links mentioning "Jim
McGinn"?
Or do you deny that looking up BILL KOCH on google produces 80 links
calling his brothers Charles & David "Organized Crime"? Then how do you
explain these links?
How did search terms: Cato Institute "Organized Crime" become synomous
with "Jim McGinn"?
Easy. Practice, practice, practice. In the few short weeks that agent
McGinn has attempted to be a disrupter of usenet environmental groups
he has associated himself with Killer Koch Brothers Organized Crime
operations, including Cato Institute, so strongly that GOOGLE.COM
automatically pops Jim McGinn up to the top of the list if you look up
Cato Institute "Organized Crime".
Looking up "Fred Singer" "Organized Crime" also puts Jim McGinn at the
top of the list.
http://snipurl.com/owo7
Results 1 - 100 of 116 for "Fred Singer" "Organized Crime"
But CATO INSTITUTE has far more Organized Crime links on record...
... In fact, Cato co-founder Charles G. Koch, and David Koch director
of Cato were both called ORGANIZED CRIME by David Koch's twin-brother
Bill on CBS national television...
http://snipurl.com/owoc
Results for "Bill Koch" "Organized Crime"
http://snipurl.com/owok
Results about 81 for "Bill Koch" "Organized Crime".
Here's the Jim McGinn links to Cato Institute "Organized Crime"
http://snipurl.com/ownc
Results 1 - 100 of 1,700 for Cato Institute "Organized Crime"
A person would have to be cockoo to not see the facts presented. Jim
McGinn is synomous with Cato Institute Organized Crime, and Cato was
founded by Killer Charles G. Koch and brother Killer David Koch is
director of Cato Organized Crime -- Their brother Bill Koch said so on
national TV and neither CBS nor Bill got sued for libel (why do you
think that is?).
Jim McGinn
"Michael Tobis" <mto...@gmail.com> wrote
> Do I have to spend the rest of my life pointing out that "catastrophic
> AGW" are your words,
AFAIC this was never under dispute.
> . . . that I never asserted anything like that, and that
> I don't think "indicates catastrophic AGW" has a clear meaning?
I understand that. And that's why I gave you to opportunity to retract your
statement.
>
> I said that classical physics was at the core of an argument that we
> need to be concerned about AGW,
This is rather vague, don't you think?
> and that computer models were not
> needed to justify policy action.
Scary.
> I am willing to discuss this, and made
> several attempts to communicate. I refuse, however, to allow you or
> anyone else to misquote or misrepresent me.
>
> Do you know what a "straw man argument" is? If so, which one did I
> present?
C'mon Mikey, we both know you don't have any such, "classical physics,"
argument for GW death scenarios.
Don't get creative.
Jim McGinn
Do you wear an arm band?
Do you often refer to yourself in the third person?
(do tell please)
Global Warming @ARMY.com
Jim McGinn wrote:
> (do tell please)
I do appreciate your creating fresh opportunities to associate in the
public mind that CATO Institute was founded by Organized Crime boss
Charles G. Koch and his brother Killer David Koch is direcor of Cato,
and that BILL KOCH, twin brother to David & Charles called them
"Organized Crime" on CBS national television.
Whatever they are paying you to spam newsgroups is buying them $10,000
of unfavorable publicity for each and every message you post. Keep up
the good work notifying the public about the reason OILMEN Koch want to
destroy the EPA and pollution regulations after getting the largest
fine in US history for 300 incidents of fouling the air, lands and
waters of six states.
http://snipurl.com/owoc
Results for "Bill Koch" "Organized Crime"
http://snipurl.com/owok
Results about 81 for "Bill Koch" "Organized Crime".
http://snipurl.com/ox6f
Results 1 - 100 of about 40,000 for Koch Industries $35 million fine.
http://ecosyn.us/scum02.html
"Killer Koch Brothers" and "Competitive Enterprise Institute" google
linkages
To first read the Killer Koch Dossier:
http://www.jimarnoldassociates.com/news_09_24_02.html
http://www.motherjones.com/news/special_reports/mojo_400/51_koch.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/11/27/60II/printable252545.shtml
News
Also, The Koch Pipeline Co., LP, another subsidiary of Koch Industries,
had agreed to pay some $35 million in fines and penalties for
violations of the ...
http://waternet.com/news.asp?mode=4&N_ID=14430 - 16k
News
Koch hit with record Clean Water Act fine. HOUSTON - The Koch
Pipeline Co., ... of Koch Industries, Inc. in Wichita, KS, has agreed
to pay some $35 million ...
http://waternet.com/news.asp?mode=4&N_ID=11149 - 16k
Forbes.com: Forbes Faces: The Koch Brothers
In September 1999, Koch Industries paid $8 million in damages after a
... It was forced to pay a $35 million settlement for 300 separate oil
spills in six ...
http://www.forbes.com/2001/01/04/0104faces.html - 27k
Forbes.com: Forbes World's Richest People 2001
Brothers Charles and David run Koch Industries, the $35 billion oil
... mishap in its Corpus Christi refinery; the company agreed to pay a
$20 million fine. ...
StealthPacs.org | Overview of Citizens for a Sound Economy (CSE ...
CSE co-founder David H. Koch is a member of Cato's board of
directors.13 Koch ... of Koch Industries, an oil and gas company that
paid a $35 million fine in ...
http://www.stealthpacs.org/profile.cfm?Org_ID=162 - 31k
July/August 2002 - Sierra Magazine - Sierra Club
In January, Koch Industries agreed to pay about $35 million for
violations of the Clean ... but also to pay a $1 million fine for
air-pollution violations. ...
http://www.sierraclub.org/sierra/200207/thinktank.asp - 41k
David H. Koch - SourceWatch
Koch Industries received a $30000000.00 criminal fine in March 2000:
... for more than 300 oil spills in five states, prompting a penalty of
$35 million. ...
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=David_H._Koch - 14k
The Center for Public Integrity
The owners of Koch Industries, the nation's second wealthiest privately
owned business, the brothers were recently given a $35 million federal
fine in ...
http://www.publicintegrity.org/report.aspx?aid=508 - 35k
The Center for Public Integrity
The brothers own Koch Industries, the nation's second wealthiest
privately owned business, which was recently given a $35 million
federal fine in connection ...
http://www.publicintegrity.org/report.aspx?aid=537 - 61k
[ More results from www.publicintegrity.org ]
Endgame Directory of Transnational Corporations
A federal judge in Austin, TX, has approved a record $35 million civil
fine against Kansas-based Koch Industries, ending lawsuits involving
about 300 oil ...
http://www.endgame.org/dtc/k.html - 47k
EMS Pipeline Services - Regulatory Compliance
Those who fail to comply face penalties, which are already reaching
record highs, including a $35 million fine for Koch Industries. ...
http://www.emspipeline.net/compliance/index.asp - 19k
The Clear and Present Danger of the Sociopathic Insanity of David ...
The owners of KOCH INDUSTRIES, the nation's second wealthiest privately
owned business, the brothers were recently given a $35 million federal
fine in ...
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Killer_David_Koch.html - 71k
Organized Crime Ring - Killer Koch's Citizens for a Sound Economy
Not surprisingly, the industry has lavished more than $440 million
over the past six ... and Koch and Ashcroft settled the lawsuit for a
$20 million fine, ...
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/CSE_Organized_Crime.html - 67k
Environmental Defense - Press Release: Environmental Defense Says ...
Today's proposed fine compares unfavorably to the $35 million fine the
US Environmental Protection Agency levied against Koch Industries, Inc.
in January of ...
http://www.environmentaldefense.org/pressrelease.cfm?ContentID=1230 -
23k
D Smith
>"D Smith" <maji...@accesscomm.ca> wrote
Proof by assertion. Another "tactic typical to newsgroups". Your
handlers have at least given you some training, but it's really so obvious
that you're a hack - I don't think your handlers are getting their money's
worth.
c-bee1
"Global Warming @ARMY.com" <Global....@ARMY.com> wrote in message
news:1144563202....@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> c-bee1 wrote:
> > "Science Cop" <scien...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> > news:1144549429....@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> > >
> > > Jim McGinn wrote:
> > >
> > > > End of story.
>
> > > Why does "Jim McGinn" name pop up when searching Cato Institute
> > > "Organized Crime"?
>
> > > How did search terms: Cato Institute "Organized Crime" become synomous
> > > with "Jim McGinn"?
>
> > > Easy. Practice, practice, practice. In the few short weeks that agent
> > > McGinn has attempted to be a disrupter of usenet environmental groups
> > > he has associated himself with Killer Koch Brothers Organized Crime
> > > operations, including Cato Institute, so strongly that GOOGLE.COM
> > > automatically pops Jim McGinn up to the top of the list if you look up
> > > Cato Institute "Organized Crime".
>
> > cuckoo cuckoo cuckoo
>
> So. You deny that using google.com to search for keywords about CATO
> INSTITUTE "ORGANIZED CRIME" produces dozens of links mentioning "Jim
> McGinn"?
>
Until you start making at least 10% sense, no one is going to give a shit.
Get it? Right now this looks like just another vengeful post by a 100% k00k
who got their butt blistered.
c-bee1
"Jim McGinn" <jimm...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:8_3_f.68298$dW3....@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
Ah, there IS a Jim McGinn. What horrible thing did you do to arouse
k00kboy, anyway? His description is a little...er...sketchy.
Jim McGinn
"c-bee1" <c-b...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:1Jc_f.916168$xm3.102634@attbi_s21...
I don't know. But I bet it's got something to do with the orderlies taking
away his extra cookie privileges.
Coby Beck
>
> "Michael Tobis" <mto...@gmail.com> wrote
>
>> Do I have to spend the rest of my life pointing out that "catastrophic
>> AGW" are your words,
>
> AFAIC this was never under dispute.
>
>> . . . that I never asserted anything like that, and that
>> I don't think "indicates catastrophic AGW" has a clear meaning?
>
> I understand that. And that's why I gave you to opportunity to retract
> your statement.
LOL! I get it, Jimmy, I get it. "I know you never said it. Now why won't
you retract it?"
Good one.
Global Warming @ARMY.com
Jim McGinn wrote:
> I don't know. But I bet it's got something to do with the orderlies taking
> away his extra cookie privileges.
Why does "Jim McGinn" name pop up when searching Cato Institute
Jim McGinn
Global_Warming @Peacemail.com wrote:
> > I know for a fact that there are no, "straightforward arguments in classical
> > radiative physics," that indicate catastrophic AGW. In fact the statement
> > is patently absurd.
<snip>
> Models are irrelevent.
Yep.
> Radiative physics was begun by Albert Einstein
> over 100 years ago presenting the "photon" theory of light radiation.
Relevance?
> He developed it further with the Theory of Relativity and the Special
> Theory of Relativity.
Relevance?
> Neils Bohr and the Copenhagen Interpretation
> developed quantum physics theory further.
Relevance?
> Both of these are well proved
> by the photons of light emitted by the dscreen you are looking at to
> read this.
You are delusional.
>
> That is radiative physics. PHYSICAL elements and molecules RADIATE
> energy as visible and invisible light. Infrared light is invisible to
> humans but visible to their instruments. We can see IR light with
> instruments and special IR sensitive camera films.
Relevance?
>
> Only rightwing loons deny infrared energy exists.
References?
>
> CO2 is opaque to IR photons. That means it captures them, holds them
> for a time and releases them when conditions are right. CO2 is also
> invisible.
References?
>
> Only rightwing loons deny CO2 exists.
References?
>
> The VISIBLE spectrum lead to the discovery of elements through their
> RADIATIVE PHYSICS. We know a lot about the absorption and emissions of
> various spectra of light, both visible and invisible.
Don't tell us, show us. Where in the world did you ever get the idea
that anybody would take the word of a loon like yourself?
>
> Only rightwing loons deny spectra exist.
>
> WE know for an absolute certainty what happens when IR radiation is in
> an atmosphere containing CO2. DEnial of Greenhouse gases requires a new
> physics
New physics?
that explains where the IR energy disappears from the system
> when we measure it is in the system using thermometers and IR-sensitive
> instruments and IR-sensitive camera films.
>
> Only a rightwing loon would deny IR energy is in the system after it
> has been measured as being there.
>
> The FIRST LAW of THERMODYNAMICS states that energy cannot be created
> nor destroyed. Radiative Physics explains what the IR heat energy does
> in the system. You have to produce an alternative explanation which
> EXPLAINS ALL OF THE EVIDENCE better than the explanation used by the
> whole world's phyicists.
>
> Only a rightwing loon would imagine leprechans wisking away the IR
> energy so that it never influences the climate-atmospheric system.
Do you have anything that doesn't originate in your imagination?
>
> MODELS are useful for predicting, but they are totally unnecessary for
> demonstrating that Athropogenic (Man-Made) Greenhouse Gases trap heat
> in the biosphere and create Global Warming.
Numbers?
>
> You can fight and destroy every model on the planet and the plain
> RADIATIVE PHYSIC still proves
It does? You expect anybody to take your word on this? Think again.
there is a serious Global Warming problem
> caused by man-made pollutoion gases.
>
> Only a rightwing loon trained in a Kansas Creation-Science class would
> be ignorant of RADIATIVE PHYSICS and think models are central to
> proving anything about Global Warming.
Why don't you explain to us how radiative physics indicates
catastrophic GW? If nothing else it should prove to be good for a few
laughs.
vendicar
> > CO2 is opaque to IR photons. That means it captures them, holds them
> > for a time and releases them when conditions are right. CO2 is also
> > invisible.
"Jim McGinn" <jimm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> References?
> References?
> References?
> References?
> References?
> References?
> References?
> References?
> References?
> References?
> References?
> References?
> References?
http://chemistry.beloit.edu/Warming/moviepages/IRconc.htm
http://www.epa.gov/ttn/emc/ftir/aedcdat1.html
http://sci.esa.int/science-e/www/object/index.cfm?fobjectid=37192
http://www.wag.caltech.edu/home/jang/genchem/infrared.htm
http://courses.nus.edu.sg/course/geomr/front/fresearch/sin%2003/sin%2003.htm
http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/Sciences/Physics/MolecularPhysics/Molecu
larSpectra/MolecularSpectra/MolecularSpectra.htm
http://www.science-softcon.de/spectra/other/other_1.htm
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_ui
ds=15910038&dopt=Abstract
http://w3.rz-berlin.mpg.de/~hergenh/CoreLevelPhotoionisation/projects/co2.ht
ml