Soviet San Francisco Cell Shutdown: Safety Issue, or Hint of Orwell?
Leroy N. Soetoro
cellphones-to-hinder-protest/?intcmp=obnetwork
An illegal, Orwellian violation of free-speech rights? Or just a smart
tactic to protect train passengers from rowdy would-be demonstrators
during a busy evening commute?
The question resonated Saturday in San Francisco and beyond as details
emerged of Bay Area Rapid Transit officials' decision to cut off
underground cellphone service for a few hours at several stations
Thursday. Commuters at stations from downtown to near the city's main
airport were affected as BART officials sought to tactically thwart a
planned protest over the recent fatal shooting of a 45-year-old man by
transit police.
Two days later, the move had civil rights and legal experts questioning
the agency's move, and drew backlash from one transit board member who was
taken aback by the decision.
"I'm just shocked that they didn't think about the implications of this.
We really don't have the right to be this type of censor," said Lynette
Sweet, who serves on BART's board of directors. "In my opinion, we've let
the actions of a few people affect everybody. And that's not fair."
Similar questions of censorship have arisen in recent days as Britain's
government put the idea of curbing social media services on the table in
response to several nights of widespread looting and violence in London
and other English cities. Police claim that young criminals used Twitter
and Blackberry instant messages to coordinate looting sprees in riots.
Prime Minister David Cameron said that the government, spy agencies and
the communications industry are looking at whether there should be limits
on the use of social media sites like Twitter and Facebook or services
like BlackBerry Messenger to spread disorder. The suggestions have met
with outrage -- with some critics comparing Cameron to the despots ousted
during the Arab Spring.
In the San Francisco instance, Sweet said BART board members were told by
the agency of its decision during the closed portion of its meeting
Thursday afternoon, less than three hours before the protest was scheduled
to start.
"It was almost like an afterthought," Sweet told The Associated Press.
"This is a land of free speech and for us to think we can do that shows
we've grown well beyond the business of what we're supposed to be doing
and that's providing transportation. Not censorship."
But there are nuances to consider, including under what conditions, if
any, an agency like BART can act to deny the public access to a form of
communication -- and essentially decide that a perceived threat to public
safety trumps free speech.
These situations are largely new ones, of course. A couple of decades ago,
during the fax-machine and pay-phone era, the notion of people organizing
mass gatherings in real time on wireless devices would have been fantasy.
BART Deputy Police Chief Benson Fairow said the issue boiled down to the
public's well-being.
"It wasn't a decision made lightly. This wasn't about free speech. It was
about safety," Fairow told KTVU-TV on Friday.
BART spokesman Jim Allison maintained that the cellphone disruptions were
legal as the agency owns the property and infrastructure. He added while
they didn't need the permission of cellphone carriers to temporarily cut
service, they notified them as a courtesy.
The decision was made after agency officials saw details about the protest
on an organizer's website. He said the agency had extra staff and officers
aboard trains during that time for anybody who wanted to report an
emergency, as well as courtesy phones on station platforms.
"I think the entire argument is that some people think it created an
unsafe situation is faulty logic," Allison said. "BART had operated for 35
years without cellphone service and no one ever suggested back then that a
lack of it made it difficult to report emergencies and we had the same
infrastructure in place."
But as in London, BART's tactic drew immediate comparisons to
authoritarianism, including acts by the former president of Egypt to
squelch protests demanding an end to his rule. Authorities there cut
Internet and cellphone services in the country for days earlier this year.
He left office shortly thereafter.
"BART officials are showing themselves to be of a mind with the former
president of Egypt, Hosni Mubarak," the Electronic Frontier Foundation
said on its website. Echoing that comparison, vigorous weekend discussion
on Twitter was labeled with the hashtag "muBARTek."
Aaron Caplan, a professor at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles who
specializes in free-speech issues, was equally critical, saying BART
clearly violated the rights of demonstrators and other passengers.
"We can arrest and prosecute people for the crimes they commit," he said.
"You are not allowed to shut down people's cellphones and prevent them
from speaking because you think they might commit a crime in the future."
Michael Risher, the American Civil Liberty Union's Northern California
staff attorney, echoed the sentiment in a blog: "The government shouldn't
be in the business of cutting off the free flow of information. Shutting
down access to mobile phones is the wrong response to political protests,
whether it's halfway around the world or right here in San Francisco."
On Saturday at the station where cell phone service was disrupted,
passenger Phil Eager, 44, shared the opinion that BART's approach seemed
extreme.
"It struck me as pretty strange and kind of extreme," said Eager, a San
Francisco attorney. "It's not a First Amendment debate, but rather a civil
liberties issue."
Eager said many of his friends riding BART on Thursday were upset with the
agency's actions, some even calling it a "police state."
Mark Malmberg, 58, of Orinda, Calif., believes that BART could've used a
different approach instead of shutting down cellphone usage.
"Even though it sounds like they wanted to avoid a mob gathering, you
can't stop people from expressing themselves," Malmberg said. "I hope
those who protest can do so in a civil manner."
The ACLU already has a scheduled meeting with BART's police chief on
Monday about other issues and Thursday's incident will added be to the
agenda, spokeswoman Rebecca Farmer said.
But others said that while the phone shutdown was worth examining, it may
not have impinged on First Amendment rights. Gene Policinski, executive
director of the First Amendment Center, a nonprofit educational
organization, said freedom of expression can be limited in very narrow
circumstances if there is an immediate threat to public safety.
"An agency like BART has to be held to a very high standard," he said.
"First of all, it has to be an immediate threat, not just the mere
supposition that there might be one. And I think the response has to be
what a court would consider reasonable, so it has to be the minimum amount
of restraint on free expression."
He said if BART's actions are challenged, a court may look more favorably
on what it did if expression was limited on a narrow basis for a specific
area and time frame, instead of "just indiscriminately closing down
cellphone service throughout the system or for a broad area."
University of Michigan law professor Len Niehoff, who specializes in First
Amendment and media law issues, found the BART actions troublesome for a
few reasons.
He said the First Amendment generally doesn't allow the government to
restrict free speech because somebody might do something illegal or to
prohibit conversations based on their subject matter. He said the BART
actions have been portrayed as an effort to prevent a protest that would
have violated the law, but there was no guarantee that would have
happened.
"What it really did is it prevented people from talking, discussing ...
and mobilizing in any form, peaceful or unpeaceful, lawful or unlawful,"
he said. "That is, constitutionally, very problematic."
The government does have the right to break up a demonstration if it forms
in an area where protests are prohibited and poses a risk to public
safety, Niehoff said. But it should not prohibit free speech to prevent
the possibility of a protest happening.
"The idea that we're going to keep people from talking about what they
might or might not do, based on the idea that they might all agree to
violate the law, is positively Orwellian," he said.
--
Obama's black racist USAG appointee.
Eric Holder, racist black United States Attorney General drops voter
intimidation charges against the Black Panthers, "You are about to be
ruled by the black man, cracker!"
Eric Holder, prejudiced black United States Attorney General settles the
hate crime debate, "Whites Not Protected by Hate Crime Laws."
Nancy Pelosi, Democrat criminal, accessory before and after the fact, to
former House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Charles B. Rangel of New
York's million dollar tax evasion. On December 3, 2010, Congress voted to
censure Rangel for 11 ethics violations. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi
fought removal of Charles B. Rangel from the House Ways and Means
Committee.
Felony President. 18 USC, Sec. 600. Promise of employment or other
benefit for political activity
Obama violated the law by trying to buy Joe Sestak off with a political
appointment in exchange for not pursuing an election bid to replace Arlen
Specter. Obama violated the law by trying to buy former Colorado House
Speaker Andrew Romanoff off last fall to see if he'd be interested in an
administration job -- instead of running against Sen. Michael Bennet.
--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to ne...@netfront.net ---
dave
> http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/08/13/san-francisco-transit-blocks-
> cellphones-to-hinder-protest/?intcmp=obnetwork
>
>
> An illegal, Orwellian violation of free-speech rights? Or just a smart
> tactic to protect train passengers from rowdy would-be demonstrators
> during a busy evening commute?
>
Slippery slope to use "safety" as a good reason for any curtailment of
freedom. I vote no.
San Francisco is a smelly old place.
David Weinstein
more -- everywhere!
It's easier now to shut crowds down, than to ask or tell 'em to shut-
up!
dave
Learn to build ad hoc networks with portable wifi routers.
George Plimpton
> http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/08/13/san-francisco-transit-blocks-
> cellphones-to-hinder-protest/?intcmp=obnetwork
>
>
> An illegal, Orwellian violation of free-speech rights? Or just a smart
> tactic to protect train passengers from rowdy would-be demonstrators
> during a busy evening commute?
Not a free speech violation, of course. The government is under no
obligation to furnish you with the means of propagating your speech. I
don't know technically how BART brings cell service underground, but
whatever that mechanism is, BART owns it and can switch it on or off as
they see fit. Quite obviously, they have it as a means of providing a
service - a service they are under no obligation to provide in the first
place.
If you want to stand on a street corner and harangue passersby, that is
your right - but the state doesn't have to furnish you with a megaphone.
Free speech does not include the right to have your speech
disseminated beyond your own means.
dave
>
> If you want to stand on a street corner and harangue passersby, that is
> your right - but the state doesn't have to furnish you with a megaphone.
> Free speech does not include the right to have your speech
> disseminated beyond your own means.
That's freakin' ridiculous.
RHF
wrote:
So then a Judge can NOT Order All Cellphones
and Pagers "Off" in his Court Room.
-and- a Judge can NOT Order No Photographs
and Recording in his Court Room.
-plus- a Judge can NOT Ban Reporters from
his Court Room.
.
RHF
> Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
> >http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/08/13/san-francisco-transit-blocks-
> > cellphones-to-hinder-protest/?intcmp=obnetwork
>
> > An illegal, Orwellian violation of free-speech rights? Or just a smart
> > tactic to protect train passengers from rowdy would-be demonstrators
> > during a busy evening commute?
- Slippery slope to use "safety" as a good
- reason for any curtailment of freedom.
Where is 'That' Freedom Detailed in the US
a/o California Constitutions ?
-oops-it-ain't-
I vote no.
You Are Not A Judge and You are Not a LEO
{TG!} : You Are Simply M4 Mania Dave !
.
- San Francisco is a smelly old place.
The Get Your SoCal Nose Out of SF's Ass !
.
.
RHF
> David Weinstein wrote:
> > Now that this practice is gaining global momentum, we'll witness a lot
> > more -- everywhere!
>
> > It's easier now to shut crowds down, than to ask or tell 'em to shut-
> > up!
- Learn to build ad hoc networks with portable wifi routers.
M4* Mania Dave that Sounds Like a 'Conspiracy'
to Commit an Act of "Domestic Terrorism" !
* Mucho Medical-Marijuana Madness [M4]
.
.
RHF
> George Plimpton wrote:
- - If you want to stand on a street corner
- - and harangue passersby, that is your
- - right - but the state doesn't have to
- - furnish you with a megaphone.
- - Free speech does not include the right
- - to have your speech disseminated beyond
- - your own means.
Even the Soapbox Orators of Hyde Park,
London [UK] have to bring their own
Soap-Boxes.
.
- That's freakin' ridiculous.
M4* Mania Dave 'Freakin' Ridiculous !
-u-b-freaking-out-again-dave-?-
George Plimpton
What's ridiculous about it? Do you think if you wish to harangue the
citizenry, the state has to put a television network at your disposal?
No, they don't. If you wish to *buy* time on a network for your
harangue, fine. But you do not have a right to propagate your message
at someone else's expense.
dave
> On Aug 16, 6:08 am, dave <d...@dave.dave> wrote:
>
> - Slippery slope to use "safety" as a good
> - reason for any curtailment of freedom.
>
> Where is 'That' Freedom Detailed in the US
> a/o California Constitutions ?
> -oops-it-ain't-
>
> I vote no.
>
> You Are Not A Judge and You are Not a LEO
> {TG!} : You Are Simply M4 Mania Dave !
> .
We have a right to peaceably assemble. Participating in a group
discussion on line is protected activity.
dave
It does to a fascist. You talk like a Good German, Ralph.
dave
>
> What's ridiculous about it? Do you think if you wish to harangue the
> citizenry, the state has to put a television network at your disposal?
>
> No, they don't. If you wish to *buy* time on a network for your
> harangue, fine. But you do not have a right to propagate your message
> at someone else's expense.
If a station allows one side a voice for free, fairness demands they
allow free time for an opposing viewpoint. They should make this a
condition of the station license renewal.
George Plimpton
It wasn't about Usenet.
George Plimpton
The (un)Fairness Doctrine is dead. Get used to it.
What happened in San Francisco had nothing to do with paid access to
broadcast networks.
Jim Wilkins
"RHF" <rhf-new...@pacbell.net> wrote
...
> - Learn to build ad hoc networks with portable wifi routers.
Cell phone and wifi jammers for under $300:
http://sleuthtek.com/
dave
Why not just run a microwave oven with the door open?
Michael A. Terrell
Will you stand in front of it for 15 minutes?
--
Subject: Spelling Lesson
The last four letters in American.........I Can
The last four letters in Republican.......I Can
The last four letters in Democrats.........Rats
End of lesson. Test to follow in November, 2012
Remember, November is to be set aside as rodent extermination month.
Michael A. Terrell
Ask 'Captain Midnight' about using HBO.
George Plimpton
>
> George Plimpton wrote:
>>
>> On 8/16/2011 1:46 PM, dave wrote:
>>> George Plimpton wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you want to stand on a street corner and harangue passersby, that is
>>>> your right - but the state doesn't have to furnish you with a megaphone.
>>>> Free speech does not include the right to have your speech
>>>> disseminated beyond your own means.
>>>
>>> That's freakin' ridiculous.
>>
>> What's ridiculous about it? Do you think if you wish to harangue the
>> citizenry, the state has to put a television network at your disposal?
>>
>> No, they don't. If you wish to *buy* time on a network for your
>> harangue, fine. But you do not have a right to propagate your message
>> at someone else's expense.
>
>
> Ask 'Captain Midnight' about using HBO.
That was theft, and he was punished for it (not too severely.)
Michael A. Terrell
He was a local, and used a private teleconference terminal to commit
that crime. It was the only uplink built by Microdyne and was in
Leesburg Florida. He says the equipment is still there, but the site is
abandoned. I have been trying to find it, and the owner. I used to work
for Microdyne, and I'd love to add it to my collection of unusual items
they built. One that would be impossible to find are the custom
'Command Destruct Receivers' that were made for NASA. I do have one of
their custom built C-band signal generators built to align Sat TV
receivers at the local plant. it may be the only one that survived when
they dropped that product line.
Jim Wilkins
"dave" <da...@dave.dave> wrote in message
news:4e4bde65$0$12469$bd46...@news.dslextreme.com...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_interference_at_2.4_GHz
jsw
RHF
> RHF wrote:
> > On Aug 16, 6:08 am, dave <d...@dave.dave> wrote:
>
- - - reason for any curtailment of freedom.
- - Where is 'That' Freedom Detailed in the US
- - a/o California Constitutions ?
- - -oops-it-ain't-
- -
- - I vote no.
- - You Are Not A Judge and You are Not a LEO
- - {TG!} : You Are Simply M4 Mania Dave !
- - .
- - .
- We have a right to peaceably assemble.
dave,,, Dave... DAVE ! ! !
Peaceable Assemble Does NOT Violate :
The Rights of Others To Their Own
Right To Life + Liberty & Freedoms [.]
-think-about-this-
Was this "Flash Mob" which was trying to
Shut-Down BART during Rush-Hour; and STRAND
Hundreds of Thousands of Bay Area Workers
-a- ? Peacefull Assemble ?
-or- ! An Act of Domestic Terrorism !
Cloward–Piven "Maoist" {-or- Fascist} Strategy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloward%E2%80%93Piven_strategy
Overloading & Shutting Down the System*
* Attacking "The Regime" !
.
- Participating in a group discussion on
- line is protected activity.
You Have To Pay for Internet Access :
So It Is Not A 'right'
-or- so-called 'Free' Internet Access
comes with Imbedded Internet Advertising :
{Which is Indirect-Payment}
So It Is Not A 'right' either.
Dave 'You' {or "I"} Have The Right To Shout
Our Mouths Off -but- Others Have The Equal
{Corresponding} Right To NOT Listen ! ! !
.
-again- Freedom of Association Carries the
Equal {Corresponding} Right of Freedom of
Disassociation [.]
.
.
RHF
> George Plimpton wrote:
>
> > What's ridiculous about it? Do you think if you wish to harangue the
> > citizenry, the state has to put a television network at your disposal?
>
- - If you wish to *buy* time on a network
- - for your harangue, fine.
- - But you do not have a right to propagate
- - your message at someone else's expense.
- If a station allows one side a voice for free,
- fairness demands they allow free time for an
- opposing viewpoint. They should make this a
- condition of the station license renewal.
? Dave... Where Is "Fairness Demands" In The
US Constitution !
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Constitution
.
-add-one-more-to-the-
800+ "Dave -proclaims-" Posts Here at/on Rec.Radio.Shortwave
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/81e3e675cda3b450
.
.
RHF
<mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Subject: Spelling Lesson
>
>The last four letters in American.........I Can
>The last four letters in Republican.......I Can
>The last four letters in Democrats.........Rats
>
>End of lesson. Test to follow in November, 2012
>
>Remember, November is to be set aside as rodent extermination month.
- Subject: Spelling Lesson
- The last four letters in American.........I Can
- The last four letters in Republican.......I Can
- The last four letters in Democrats.........Rats
-
- End of lesson. Test to follow in November, 2012
-
- Remember, November is to be set aside as rodent extermination month.
.
The "Renewing American Spring" Is Coming...
In The Fall of 2012 [6th NOV] ! ! !
-throw-the-bums-out-!-
.
Think Green America : Recycle Prez Obama in
2012 ! : Make It One Term Then Out for 'BO' !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/d51f5253fd43263a
.
The Obama 'Promises' -versus- The Obama "Reality"
-while- Still Playing 'The Blame Bush Game' !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/716acaa944680ab5
.
Join 'The Cult of The-Obama' :
Re-Elect Obama bi-Den© in 2012 !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/7b6c4c7197b2de72
.
Re-Elect Obama {& _______?} © in 2012 !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/8810c35cac4eec09
.
Baracking Prez "BO" ! {Obama}
Bring Down The Obama Regime & Send "BO"
-aka-'Stinky' Home in 2012 !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/6e41bc3892d4f018
.
Clowning "BO"-wrt- Blaming Prez "BO"...
Who Let The "BO" Out? Who! Who!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/fea00130443e55ff
.
.
dave
> He was a local, and used a private teleconference terminal to commit
> that crime. It was the only uplink built by Microdyne and was in
> Leesburg Florida. He says the equipment is still there, but the site is
> abandoned. I have been trying to find it, and the owner. I used to work
> for Microdyne, and I'd love to add it to my collection of unusual items
> they built. One that would be impossible to find are the custom
> 'Command Destruct Receivers' that were made for NASA. I do have one of
> their custom built C-band signal generators built to align Sat TV
> receivers at the local plant. it may be the only one that survived when
> they dropped that product line.
>
Did you guys build the original NPR SCPC receivers, with a TV Band IF
prime focus converter the size of a beer keg? Wazzat you guys?
dave
> On Aug 17, 7:31 am, dave <d...@dave.dave> wrote:
> - If a station allows one side a voice for free,
> - fairness demands they allow free time for an
> - opposing viewpoint. They should make this a
> - condition of the station license renewal.
>
> ? Dave... Where Is "Fairness Demands" In The
> US Constitution !
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Constitution
> .
Our way of governing requires that smart, well-informed citizens
exercise their right to vote. If you want a license to serve the
public interest you can't broadcast party-line propaganda 24/7. Those
are my airwaves, too, and I'm not getting any attention.
Equal Protection is in the Constitution
Michael A. Terrell
No. Microdyne's 1100-PCDR SCPC was only 1 RU high.
There are several 1100-PCDR availible on Ebay right now.
J R
http://www.rense.com
Doggy, all we have for desert tonight are cookies.
///That'll work!///
You wants vanilla or vanilla?
///That'll work!///
We have to watch the Humphrey Bogart, Sahara movie on TCM.
///yeah, yeah, yeah///
cuhulin
J R
mouth.
Drudge Report.
Secret Service B HO Butt Kisser agent charged with drunk driving.
http://www.drudgereport.com
cuhulin
arthr...@webtv.net
He has gotten two brand-spanking-new black buses . How many did Johnny
Cash have (in better times) ?
Martin Eastburn
Martin
On 8/16/2011 2:37 PM, George Plimpton wrote:
> On 8/16/2011 12:23 AM, Leroy N. Soetoro wrote:
>> http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/08/13/san-francisco-transit-blocks-
>> cellphones-to-hinder-protest/?intcmp=obnetwork
>>
>>
>> An illegal, Orwellian violation of free-speech rights? Or just a smart
>> tactic to protect train passengers from rowdy would-be demonstrators
>> during a busy evening commute?
>
> Not a free speech violation, of course. The government is under no
> obligation to furnish you with the means of propagating your speech. I
> don't know technically how BART brings cell service underground, but
> whatever that mechanism is, BART owns it and can switch it on or off as
> they see fit. Quite obviously, they have it as a means of providing a
> service - a service they are under no obligation to provide in the first
> place.
Ignoramus16731
i
arthr...@webtv.net
16731.invalid> wrote:
> I call it San Franciskograd.
>
> i
Russian Hill .
RHF
> Overloading & Shutting Down the System*
> * Attacking "The Regime" !
> .
> - Participating in a group discussion on
> - line is protected activity.
>
> You Have To Pay for Internet Access :
> So It Is Not A 'right'
> -or- so-called 'Free' Internet Access
> comes with Imbedded Internet Advertising :
> {Which is Indirect-Payment}
> So It Is Not A 'right' either.
>
> Dave 'You' {or "I"} Have The Right To Shout
> Our Mouths Off -but- Others Have The Equal
> {Corresponding} Right To NOT Listen ! ! !
> .
> -again- Freedom of Association Carries the
> Equal {Corresponding} Right of Freedom of
> Disassociation [.]
> .
> .
-follow-up-
.
Flash-Mob Destroys 7/11 Store !
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/199419/20110817/flash-mob-violence-us-philadelphia.htm
-an-act-of-anarchy-!-
.
Flash-Mob Devastates The Citizens of
Down-Town Philly !
http://articles.philly.com/2011-08-07/news/29861647_1_young-people-flash-mobs-immaculate-conception
-an-act-of-domestic-terrorism-!-
.
SF BART Cut the Head-Off The Shut-It-Down-!
Flash-Mob by Turning Off the Station and
Tunnels Cellphone Service : Justly in the
name of Public Safety and Law & Order.
.
and that is how 'i' see it ~ RHF
.
.
RHF
> Now that this practice is gaining global momentum, we'll witness a lot
> more -- everywhere!
>
> It's easier now to shut crowds down, than to ask or tell 'em to shut-
> up!
Either Turn-Off the Cellphones and Stop The
Flash-Mob 'Peacefully'
-cut-off-command-and-control-
.
-or- Turn-Off The Lights and create another
situation -a-la- Mexico City -circa- 1968
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=97546687
.
"Flash-Mobs" as Acts of Domestic Terrorism
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/3369f48d09dbe95a
-wrt- Shutting Down the Regime
-and- Attacking the Social System
.
.
RHF
> RHF wrote:
> > On Aug 17, 7:31 am, dave <d...@dave.dave> wrote:
> > - If a station allows one side a voice for free,
> > - fairness demands they allow free time for an
> > - opposing viewpoint. They should make this a
> > - condition of the station license renewal.
>
> > ? Dave... Where Is "Fairness Demands" In The
> > US Constitution !
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Constitution
> > .
- Our way of governing requires that smart,
- well-informed citizens exercise their right
- to vote.
M4 Mania Dave -oops- Your Liberal Uber Elitism
is Showing : Only 'You' that special Smart,
and Well-Informed Citizen can be the Decider
for All Us {lessor-beings} -aka- The Masses
White -or- Black -or- Yellow -or- Brown :
ONE HUMAN* = ONE VOTE
* US Citizen
Man -or- Woman : One Person = One Vote
Straight -or- LGBT : One Person = One Vote
Rich -or- Poor : One Person = One Vote
Property Owner -or- Renter : One Person = One Vote
Native Born* -or- Naturalized* : One Person = One Vote
* US Citizen
-and-therefore-it-follows-
Educated* -or- Worker** : One Person = One Vote
* Elitist -so-called- Enlightened 'Intellectual'
** Honest Hard-Working American US Citizen
.
- If you want a license to serve the public
- interest you can't broadcast party-line
- propaganda 24/7.
Yes TV with PBS & CBS & NBC & ABC & MSNBC & CNN
All Broadcasting the Liberal {Democrat} Party-Line
{Propaganda} 24/7 -aka- The Obama-TV Outlets !
-versus-only-one-network/channel-
FOX News trying to get-out the Opposing Conservative
{Republican} Party-Line {Anti-Propaganda} 24/7
-aka- The Only Alternative-to-Obama-TV Outlet !
OBAMA & LIBERALS & DEMOCRATS ALL DEMAND THAT
FOX NEWS MUST BE SILENCE !
-in-the-name-of-fairness-
.
Massive NPR Network with 2500 Radio Stations
All Broadcasting the Liberal {Democrat} Party-Line
{Propaganda} 24/7 -aka- The Obama-Radio Outlets !
-versus-fragmented-am-talk-radio-
AM Talk Radio trying to get-out the Opposing
Conservative {Republican} Party-Line
{Anti-Obama-Propaganda} 24/7
-aka- The Only Alternative-to-Obama-Media Outlet !
OBAMA & LIBERALS & DEMOCRATS ALL DEMAND THAT
AM TALK RADIO MUST BE SILENCE !
-in-the-name-of-fairness-
.
- Those are my airwaves, too,
- and I'm not getting any attention.
M4 Mania Dave : In That 24/7 Medical-Marijuana
Madness H-A-Z-E... How Would You Know !
-tip- Dave listen to PBS & NPR & PRI & Pacifica
-when-ever-you-come-out-of-the-haze-
.
- Equal Protection is in the Constitution
Under the Law : By The Federal Government;
and From the potential Oppression and Tyranny
of the Federal Government.
The Rest Is Unalienable Rights as Prescribed
there-in.
-provided-you-exercise-them-responsibly-
.
.
RHF
> On Aug 17, 11:05 pm, cuhu...@webtv.net (J R) wrote:
>
> > Chicagoland: So many flies at Burger King, inspectors afraid to open
> > mouth.
> > Drudge Report.
>
> > Secret Service B HO Butt Kisser agent charged with drunk driving.http://www.drudgereport.com
> > cuhulin
>
- How many did Johnny Cash have (in better times) ?
Actually One is for the Democrat US Presidential
Candidate in 2012 and the 'other' [2nd] is for
the Republican US Presidential Candidate in 2012
.
-oops- Obama is Using The "BO" Special a Year
Ahead of the Election and the Republican get NO
Wheels-on-the-Ground for another Year
.
.
The Grand Obama Political Parade -via-
The $1.1M Obama-Bus that's Made-in... Canada !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/faee02cf03b40e5c
.
.
-wrt- The Obama-Busted-Mobile
-aka- Rolling Political Thunder !
-the-invasion-of-america-2012-
Wheels-on-the-Ground in the USA !
.
.
RHF
wrote:
The BART Train-Operators Comms were working.
The Only 911 Calls that would have been made
would have been from the Flash-Mob Trying To
Crash-the-System; and from Those Being Attacked
by the Flash-Mob has it got started :
Like in Philly a Violent Flash-Mob Targeting
Select Victims Beating Them and Robbing Them
-peacefully-nah-!- -vicious-and dangerous-yes-!-
.
Flash-Mob Destroys 7/11 Store !
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/199419/20110817/flash-mob-violence-us-philadelphia.htm
-an-act-of-anarchy-!-or-just-plain-robbery-?-
.
Flash-Mob Devastates The Citizens of
Down-Town Philly !
http://articles.philly.com/2011-08-07/news/29861647_1_young-people-flash-mobs-immaculate-conception
-an-act-of-domestic-terrorism-!-
-or-a-racist-riot-?-
*Judge*For*Yourself*
.
SF BART Cut the Head-Off The Shut-It-Down-!
Flash-Mob by Turning Off the Station and
Tunnels Cellphone Service : Justly in the
name of Public Safety and Law & Order.
.
"Flash-Mobs" as Acts of Domestic Terrorism
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/3369f48d09dbe95a
-wrt- Shutting Down the Regime
-and- Attacking the Social System
.
RHF
> On Aug 18, 12:01 am, Ignoramus16731 <ignoramus16...@NOSPAM.
>
> 16731.invalid> wrote:
- - I call it San Franciskograd.
- Russian Hill .
IIRC the 'Outer Richmond' SF Neighborhood
http://sfhiv.org/images/sf_neighborhoods.gif
used to have a significant Russian presence
from the earlier part of the 20th Century.
http://brightcitylight.blogspot.com/2010_09_01_archive.html
.
.
dave
expressly atheistic theory of Objectivism that in her books such as The
Virtue of Selfishness, they propose that government must be shrunk to a
bare minimum so socially Darwinist that it dances with anarchy. Only
then can entrepreneurial greed have the free run that liberty demands.
Hence Rand’s more nobly titled Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead are
required reading for the staff of Paul Ryan.
dave
> -follow-up-
> .
> Flash-Mob Destroys 7/11 Store !
> http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/199419/20110817/flash-mob-violence-us-philadelphia.htm
> -an-act-of-anarchy-!-
> .
> Flash-Mob Devastates The Citizens of
> Down-Town Philly !
> http://articles.philly.com/2011-08-07/news/29861647_1_young-people-flash-mobs-immaculate-conception
> -an-act-of-domestic-terrorism-!-
> .
> SF BART Cut the Head-Off The Shut-It-Down-!
> Flash-Mob by Turning Off the Station and
> Tunnels Cellphone Service : Justly in the
> name of Public Safety and Law & Order.
> .
> and that is how 'i' see it ~ RHF
> .
Fascists always use "security" as their excuse for shutting down freedom
and liberty.
What the hell is a flash mob? What does it have to trigger happy BART
cops?
dave
> On Aug 17, 3:33 pm, dave <d...@dave.dave> wrote:
> - Our way of governing requires that smart,
> - well-informed citizens exercise their right
> - to vote.
>
> M4 Mania Dave -oops- Your Liberal Uber Elitism
> is Showing : Only 'You' that special Smart,
> and Well-Informed Citizen can be the Decider
> for All Us {lessor-beings} -aka- The Masses
> Massive NPR Network with 2500 Radio Stations
> All Broadcasting the Liberal {Democrat} Party-Line
> {Propaganda} 24/7 -aka- The Obama-Radio Outlets !
> -versus-fragmented-am-talk-radio-
I have a vision of America where everyone is smart and well informed.
You would prefer a nation of idiots who do whatever that last advert
tells them to do.
NPR has 800 stations that play some of their programming. About 2/3 of
that number are not full power full time NPR stations.
"Fairness" is such a bedrock concept for a moral person I'm not
surprised it eludes you.
J R
Army.
Paul Gallo (Super Talk Missy Sippy radio talk show) said the Dow is
down.Going to be a rough day.
cuhulin
dave
Only for idiots who buy retail securities
RHF
> RHF wrote:
> > -follow-up-
> > .
> > Flash-Mob Destroys 7/11 Store !
> > -an-act-of-anarchy-!-
> > .
> > Flash-Mob Devastates The Citizens of
> > Down-Town Philly !
> > -an-act-of-domestic-terrorism-!-
> > .
> > SF BART Cut the Head-Off The Shut-It-Down-!
> > Flash-Mob by Turning Off the Station and
> > Tunnels Cellphone Service : Justly in the
> > name of Public Safety and Law & Order.
> > .
> > and that is how 'i' see it ~ RHF
> > .
>
> Fascists always use "security" as their excuse for shutting down freedom
> and liberty.
>
> What the hell is a flash mob? What does it have to trigger happy BART
> cops?
Dave -asks- " What the hell is a flash mob?"
*answer* Flash-Mob
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_mob
-and- Dave -just-also-posted-
"I have a vision of America where
everyone is smart and well informed."
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/cd418b888579bfed
Dave may we infer that you are :
1 - Not So 'Smart' ! -and-
2 - Not So 'Well Informed' !
alas poor m4 mania dave . . .
we know him all to well ~ RHF
.
.
dave
[rather than a simple answer I get a page of spew, again]
RHF
> RHF wrote:
> > On Aug 17, 3:33 pm, dave <d...@dave.dave> wrote:
> > - Our way of governing requires that smart,
> > - well-informed citizens exercise their right
> > - to vote.
>
> > M4 Mania Dave -oops- Your Liberal Uber Elitism
> > is Showing : Only 'You' that special Smart,
> > and Well-Informed Citizen can be the Decider
> > for All Us {lessor-beings} -aka- The Masses
> > Massive NPR Network with 2500 Radio Stations
> > All Broadcasting the Liberal {Democrat} Party-Line
> > {Propaganda} 24/7 -aka- The Obama-Radio Outlets !
> > -versus-fragmented-am-talk-radio-
>
- is smart and well informed.
So yours is a Cookie Cutter America where
everyone is the same-o-same-o
? What About Diversity Dave . . .
? ? Isn't Diversity Good . . .
-not-everyone-can-live-in-an-ivory-tower-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_elitism
-oops- Some People Have To Get a Basic
Education and Actually Work For A Living !
-the-vast-majority-{masses}-of-any-society-
.
- You would prefer a nation of idiots
NO - I prefer a Nation that has more than
Dave Clones in it [.]
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/5c9f4dab03a0c94c
-unless-you-are-claiming-to-be-an-idiot...-
.
- who do whatever that last advert tells
- them to do.
Dave so then we can infer that you do exactly
the opposite of what the 'last advert tells
you to do' -how-very-predictable-rotfl-
-or- Dave That You Do Not Listen
-which-negates-your-being-well-informed-
.
- NPR has 800 stations that play some of
- their programming. About 2/3 of that number
- are not full power full time NPR stations.
*FACT*IS*
NPR is NPR : The Mightiest {Collective} Single
Voice on the American AM/FM Radio Bands ! ! !
+plus+ NPR along with PRI and APMG is on
AFN ~50% and sometimes the VOA Too !
.
- "Fairness" is such a bedrock concept for a
- moral person I'm not surprised it eludes you.
Ah... The Great Liberal Elitist Thinker
M4* Mania Dave deems me to be a person of
'no' morals -'i'-feel-so-amoral-
* Mucho Medical-Marijuana Madness [M4]
-however- Dave 'i' do understand "Fairness"
to be a degree of Equality like :
One-For-You & One For Me
-therefore-it-follows-that-
One-Hour of Liberal NPR = One-Hour of AM Talk
800 x 24 x 7 = 134,400 Weekly NPR Hours (100%)
-versus-
500 x 24 x 7 = 84,000 Weekly AM Talk Hours (63%)
OMG - Seams like Conservatives & Republican are
being Short-Changed 50,000 Fairness Hours Weekly.
How About Moving 8-Hours of AM Talk Radio Hosts*
over to NPR Stations in the Interest of 'Fairness'
* Conservatives & Republicans
-and-balanced-by-
Moving 8-Hours of Liberal NPR Talk Radio Programs*
over to AM Talk Radio Stations in the Interest of
'Fairness'
* Liberals & Democrats -aka- Progressives
Now That Would Surely Be More Balanced & Fair Too !
-oops- But what you mean by Fairness and Balance
is NPR Being 100% Liberals & Democrats {Progressive}
-and- AM Talk Radio Being 50% Liberals & Democrats
{Progressive}; along with 50% Talk Radio Hosts
who are Conservatives & Republicans
-composite-result- 75% Liberals & Democrats
{Progressive} and only 25% Conservatives & Republicans
HEY DAVE THAT AIN'T FAIR AND BALANCED ~ RHF
.
.
RHF
> On 8/18/2011 5:44 PM, RHF wrote:
>
> [rather than a simple answer I get a page of spew, again]
What Was The Award For . . .
Missing The Boat ! ;;-}} ~ RHF
Dave -if- You Can Stand The 'Spew'
-then- Think First Before Replying !
.
-traveling-back-down-this-thread-
.
US Media Equality : Fairness and Balance
Between NPR and AM Talk Radio : Hour-4-Hour
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/ea1509d69ad034c4
.
M4 Mania Dave -asks- What Is A "Flash-Mob" ?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/1790b9e28fbbbff1
.
"Flash-Mobs" as Acts of Domestic Terrorism
-wrt- Shutting Down the Regime/System
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/8f7ed630224f9b2e
-and-
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/3369f48d09dbe95a
.
The Obama-Busted-Mobile
-aka- Rolling Political Thunder !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/06498d0df86d24b2
.
? Dave... Where Is "Fairness Demands"
In The US Constitution !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/5c9f4dab03a0c94c
-and-
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/4594d945d2b19271
-and-
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/78bc5f02946e631f
-and-
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/5ccec02db30889ab
.
The "Renewing American Spring" Is Coming...
In The Fall of 2012 [6th NOV Election ] !!!
-throw-the-bums-out-!-
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/9aedade1d70dae4a
.
Soviet San Francisco Cell Shutdown :
Safety Issue, or Hint of Orwell ?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/6d2f803aa517337f
-and-
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/9f084a9fa1b57252
-and-
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/7e582c0b792ae1b0
-and-
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/850238a5d5100b4e?
.
.
dave
> -oops- But what you mean by Fairness and Balance
> is NPR Being 100% Liberals& Democrats {Progressive}
> -and- AM Talk Radio Being 50% Liberals& Democrats
> {Progressive}; along with 50% Talk Radio Hosts
> who are Conservatives&
Gawd you are fucking deranged. There are entire states where all the
opinion shows are right wing. This is not healthy for America. Why do
you defend the indefensible? Why are you such a hateful old man?
RHF
...so... much more Mucho Medical-Marijuana
Madness -aka- Liberal-Democrat Thinking by
M4 Mania Dave
-wrt- PUI Posting Under the Influence of
Illegal Street Drugs
-restating-the-case-one-more-time-
-oops- But what you mean by Fairness and Balance
is NPR Being 100% Liberals & Democrats {Progressive}
-and- AM Talk Radio Being 50% Liberals & Democrats
{Progressive}; along with 50% Talk Radio Hosts
dave
>
> -however- Dave 'i' do understand "Fairness"
> to be a degree of Equality like :
> One-For-You & One For Me
> -therefore-it-follows-that-
> One-Hour of Liberal NPR = One-Hour of AM Talk
> 800 x 24 x 7 = 134,400 Weekly NPR Hours (100%)
> -versus-
> 500 x 24 x 7 = 84,000 Weekly AM Talk Hours (63%)
> OMG - Seams like Conservatives & Republican are
AM radio covers the entire continent. FM radio only covers cities and
surrounding suburbs. Half the people live outside cities.
Name 3 NPR opinion programs. Try to find opinion on the Dallas NPR
affiliate.
Ask WLS if they'd like to swap facilities with WBEZ, tell us what they
say.
dave
First Post
>RHF wrote:
>
>>
>> -however- Dave 'i' do understand "Fairness"
>> to be a degree of Equality like :
>> One-For-You & One For Me
>> -therefore-it-follows-that-
>> One-Hour of Liberal NPR = One-Hour of AM Talk
>> 800 x 24 x 7 = 134,400 Weekly NPR Hours (100%)
>> -versus-
>> 500 x 24 x 7 = 84,000 Weekly AM Talk Hours (63%)
>> OMG - Seams like Conservatives & Republican are
>
>AM radio covers the entire continent. FM radio only covers cities and
>surrounding suburbs. Half the people live outside cities.
Am radio has a much shorter range than FM.
There is no AM radio station covering the entire continent.
Programs are franchised on FM just as they are on AM.
You have no idea what you're talking about.
>
>Name 3 NPR opinion programs. Try to find opinion on the Dallas NPR
>affiliate.
>
>Ask WLS if they'd like to swap facilities with WBEZ, tell us what they
>say.
So NPR doesn't offer programming that you believe they should and you
want to blame conservative broadcasting for it.
Same old "Special Dave". Looking at things ass backwards.
dave
> On 19 Aug 2011 11:29:40 GMT, dave <da...@dave.dave> wrote:
>
>>
>>AM radio covers the entire continent. FM radio only covers cities and
>>surrounding suburbs. Half the people live outside cities.
>
> Am radio has a much shorter range than FM.
> There is no AM radio station covering the entire continent.
> Programs are franchised on FM just as they are on AM.
> You have no idea what you're talking about.
> So NPR doesn't offer programming that you believe they should and you
> want to blame conservative broadcasting for it.
>
> Same old "Special Dave". Looking at things ass backwards.
You need to get your language translator serviced. I am saying there is
nothing on NPR that advocates for a particular political movement, and
that even if there was, NPR is not as available as say Michael Savage,
Sean Hannity, Mark Levin, etc., are any weeknight, across the AM dial,
virtually everywhere in the continental USA. Anybody who's driven long
distance is painfully aware of what I'm talking about.
Drifter
>
> So NPR doesn't offer programming that you believe they should and you
> want to blame conservative broadcasting for it.
>
> Same old "Special Dave". Looking at things ass backwards.
A little welcome back to John Kook. Dave, you know better than
to throw up with that crazy, Really-High-Frequently.
Drifter...
dave
I know what my rules tell me.
I'm not really worthy of personal attacks, being an enfeebled old man
and all. I have worked in radio news since the early 1960s and I
used to like to hide and watch. Since I no longer do the radio
nyu-waz I am able to apply my agnostically gathered life experiences
from a more objective focus. The conclusions I arrive at are not based
on a lifetime of partisan activism. I ran Cato Institute editorials on
the Houston Pacifica station, for example. I've never glommed onto
someone else's religion.
J. Clarke
lion...@consolidated.net says...
>
> All it takes is a 911 call or plea for help that would not connect.
All it takes is for BART to decide that providing cell repeaters is
costing more than it's worth and the can pretty much shut down all cell
service on their trains and in their stations.
dave
> In article <vS%2q.133668$fD6....@en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com>,
> lion...@consolidated.net says...
>>
>> All it takes is a 911 call or plea for help that would not connect.
>
> All it takes is for BART to decide that providing cell repeaters is
> costing more than it's worth and the can pretty much shut down all cell
> service on their trains and in their stations.
>
I think Verizon and ATT, et al, put up most of the cost; they certainly
would have to field the complaints. BART has to provide "state of the
art" facilities, which includes connectivity while you're waiting for a
train.
jk
> BART has to provide "state of the
>art" facilities, which includes connectivity while you're waiting for a
>train.
Say's who, and since when?
All they HAVE to provide is an occasional train.
jk
dave
People expect a certain level of amenities while waiting. SF being all
about wonderful tech and all.
J R
Sanfranciscograd area.
Yead, in fact of the business,,, wayyyyyy back in the 1950s - 1960s, I
read in either Popular Mechanics or Popular Science magazine that New
Yawk City installed some equipment in the auto tunnels under the Hudson
River so that people listening to the radio in their cars wouldn't lose
the radio signals while driving through those tunnels.
BART (BARF) needs to get their act together.
We gots The Flintstones movie on the ENCFAM tee vee channel right now.
Yabber Dabber Doooooo,,,,,,
cuhulin
arthr...@webtv.net
AM a.k.a.Mediumwave broadcast can travel for thousands of miles
(especially at night) on aregular basis . Some of these transmitters,
outside of US, run into a Megawatt power range . FM a.k.a. VHF signals
are of a limited Line-of-Sight coverage ,except for some rare events
in the sky that cause signals not intended to travel much beyond the
horizon to appear on the opposite side of the world . radio
propagation is always full of surprizes .
arthr...@webtv.net
Holland Tunnel had repeaters installed some years back . Definetily
prior to 9/11 .
Brenda Ann
"dave" wrote in message
news:4e4dcc71$0$12468$bd46...@news.dslextreme.com...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd love to know where those figures come from. I know personally of two
liberals on AM radio: Colmes and Schultz. Air America was put together to
counter the overwhelming right wing talk on AM radio, but it failed. I think
the actual ratio is something like 15:1 in favor of the right. As far as
NPR, we listen a lot here, and there is very little political opinion one
way or another, it's predominantly shows more like magazine shows.
John Smith
> http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/08/13/san-francisco-transit-blocks-
> cellphones-to-hinder-protest/?intcmp=obnetwork
>
>
> An illegal, Orwellian violation of free-speech rights? Or just a smart
> tactic to protect train passengers from rowdy would-be demonstrators
> during a busy evening commute?
>
> emerged of Bay Area Rapid Transit officials' decision to cut off
> underground cellphone service for a few hours at several stations
> Thursday. Commuters at stations from downtown to near the city's main
> airport were affected as BART officials sought to tactically thwart a
> planned protest over the recent fatal shooting of a 45-year-old man by
> transit police.
>
>
> Two days later, the move had civil rights and legal experts questioning
> the agency's move, and drew backlash from one transit board member who was
> taken aback by the decision.
>
> "I'm just shocked that they didn't think about the implications of this.
> We really don't have the right to be this type of censor," said Lynette
> Sweet, who serves on BART's board of directors. "In my opinion, we've let
> the actions of a few people affect everybody. And that's not fair."
>
> Similar questions of censorship have arisen in recent days as Britain's
> government put the idea of curbing social media services on the table in
> response to several nights of widespread looting and violence in London
> and other English cities. Police claim that young criminals used Twitter
> and Blackberry instant messages to coordinate looting sprees in riots.
>
> Prime Minister David Cameron said that the government, spy agencies and
> the communications industry are looking at whether there should be limits
> on the use of social media sites like Twitter and Facebook or services
> like BlackBerry Messenger to spread disorder. The suggestions have met
> with outrage -- with some critics comparing Cameron to the despots ousted
> during the Arab Spring.
>
> In the San Francisco instance, Sweet said BART board members were told by
> the agency of its decision during the closed portion of its meeting
> Thursday afternoon, less than three hours before the protest was scheduled
> to start.
>
> "It was almost like an afterthought," Sweet told The Associated Press.
> "This is a land of free speech and for us to think we can do that shows
> we've grown well beyond the business of what we're supposed to be doing
> and that's providing transportation. Not censorship."
>
> But there are nuances to consider, including under what conditions, if
> any, an agency like BART can act to deny the public access to a form of
> communication -- and essentially decide that a perceived threat to public
> safety trumps free speech.
>
> These situations are largely new ones, of course. A couple of decades ago,
> during the fax-machine and pay-phone era, the notion of people organizing
> mass gatherings in real time on wireless devices would have been fantasy.
>
> BART Deputy Police Chief Benson Fairow said the issue boiled down to the
> public's well-being.
>
> "It wasn't a decision made lightly. This wasn't about free speech. It was
> about safety," Fairow told KTVU-TV on Friday.
>
> BART spokesman Jim Allison maintained that the cellphone disruptions were
> legal as the agency owns the property and infrastructure. He added while
> they didn't need the permission of cellphone carriers to temporarily cut
> service, they notified them as a courtesy.
>
> The decision was made after agency officials saw details about the protest
> on an organizer's website. He said the agency had extra staff and officers
> aboard trains during that time for anybody who wanted to report an
> emergency, as well as courtesy phones on station platforms.
>
> "I think the entire argument is that some people think it created an
> unsafe situation is faulty logic," Allison said. "BART had operated for 35
> years without cellphone service and no one ever suggested back then that a
> lack of it made it difficult to report emergencies and we had the same
> infrastructure in place."
>
> But as in London, BART's tactic drew immediate comparisons to
> authoritarianism, including acts by the former president of Egypt to
> squelch protests demanding an end to his rule. Authorities there cut
> Internet and cellphone services in the country for days earlier this year.
> He left office shortly thereafter.
>
> "BART officials are showing themselves to be of a mind with the former
> president of Egypt, Hosni Mubarak," the Electronic Frontier Foundation
> said on its website. Echoing that comparison, vigorous weekend discussion
> on Twitter was labeled with the hashtag "muBARTek."
>
> Aaron Caplan, a professor at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles who
> specializes in free-speech issues, was equally critical, saying BART
> clearly violated the rights of demonstrators and other passengers.
>
> "We can arrest and prosecute people for the crimes they commit," he said.
> "You are not allowed to shut down people's cellphones and prevent them
> from speaking because you think they might commit a crime in the future."
>
> Michael Risher, the American Civil Liberty Union's Northern California
> staff attorney, echoed the sentiment in a blog: "The government shouldn't
> be in the business of cutting off the free flow of information. Shutting
> down access to mobile phones is the wrong response to political protests,
> whether it's halfway around the world or right here in San Francisco."
>
> On Saturday at the station where cell phone service was disrupted,
> passenger Phil Eager, 44, shared the opinion that BART's approach seemed
> extreme.
>
> "It struck me as pretty strange and kind of extreme," said Eager, a San
> Francisco attorney. "It's not a First Amendment debate, but rather a civil
> liberties issue."
>
> Eager said many of his friends riding BART on Thursday were upset with the
> agency's actions, some even calling it a "police state."
>
> Mark Malmberg, 58, of Orinda, Calif., believes that BART could've used a
> different approach instead of shutting down cellphone usage.
>
> "Even though it sounds like they wanted to avoid a mob gathering, you
> can't stop people from expressing themselves," Malmberg said. "I hope
> those who protest can do so in a civil manner."
>
> The ACLU already has a scheduled meeting with BART's police chief on
> Monday about other issues and Thursday's incident will added be to the
> agenda, spokeswoman Rebecca Farmer said.
>
> But others said that while the phone shutdown was worth examining, it may
> not have impinged on First Amendment rights. Gene Policinski, executive
> director of the First Amendment Center, a nonprofit educational
> organization, said freedom of expression can be limited in very narrow
> circumstances if there is an immediate threat to public safety.
>
> "An agency like BART has to be held to a very high standard," he said.
> "First of all, it has to be an immediate threat, not just the mere
> supposition that there might be one. And I think the response has to be
> what a court would consider reasonable, so it has to be the minimum amount
> of restraint on free expression."
>
> He said if BART's actions are challenged, a court may look more favorably
> on what it did if expression was limited on a narrow basis for a specific
> area and time frame, instead of "just indiscriminately closing down
> cellphone service throughout the system or for a broad area."
>
> University of Michigan law professor Len Niehoff, who specializes in First
> Amendment and media law issues, found the BART actions troublesome for a
> few reasons.
>
> He said the First Amendment generally doesn't allow the government to
> restrict free speech because somebody might do something illegal or to
> prohibit conversations based on their subject matter. He said the BART
> actions have been portrayed as an effort to prevent a protest that would
> have violated the law, but there was no guarantee that would have
> happened.
>
> "What it really did is it prevented people from talking, discussing ...
> and mobilizing in any form, peaceful or unpeaceful, lawful or unlawful,"
> he said. "That is, constitutionally, very problematic."
>
> The government does have the right to break up a demonstration if it forms
> in an area where protests are prohibited and poses a risk to public
> safety, Niehoff said. But it should not prohibit free speech to prevent
> the possibility of a protest happening.
>
> "The idea that we're going to keep people from talking about what they
> might or might not do, based on the idea that they might all agree to
> violate the law, is positively Orwellian," he said.
>
>
>
Reason 1001 and that the government has been infiltrated by criminals
and perverts and that we are now in the twilight zone without a legal
government -- once the people stop respecting their government, there
simply is none ...
Regards,
JS
John Smith
The "Gay Bay" used to be a nice place, both to live and to visit ... it
is no longer so.
Used to attract the brightest and best, now it just attracts weirdos,
serial killers, criminals, perverts, etc. It has went the way of most
large cities, only worse, but still not as bad as chicago or detroit ...
Regards,
JS
dave
I think Roy makes them up. I picture him as a kind of Jabba the Hut
[sic] with extra punctuation marks.
They are on satellite and in a few big cities and neither is much of a
leftie. Colmes is too passive and Shultz is a big
dumb jock. Neither represents intelligently, like Thom Hartmann, who has
a big AFTRS following. When Limbaugh started pretty much all his
stations also carried Larry King. That was more balanced than today.
George Noory is part of the birther fringe.
J R
jk
Apparently "dave's not (all) here" is true.
SF is not about all the Tech. SOUTH BAY is all about the tech, and
doesn't get bart.
jk
John R. Carroll
> dave <da...@dave.dave> wrote:
>
>> On 8/19/2011 4:03 PM, jk wrote:
>>> dave<da...@dave.dave> wrote:
>>>
>>>> BART has to provide "state of the
>>>> art" facilities, which includes connectivity while you're waiting
>>>> for a train.
>>> Say's who, and since when?
>>>
>>> All they HAVE to provide is an occasional train.
>>> jk
>>
>> People expect a certain level of amenities while waiting. SF being
>> all about wonderful tech and all.
> Apparently "dave's not (all) here" is true.
>
> SF is not about all the Tech. SOUTH BAY is all about the tech, and
> doesn't get bart.
>
Huh?
I've got a friend that takes the train from Willow Glenn to the City every
day.
--
John R. Carroll
M. Gaddafi
BEING UNINTELLIGIBLE.
jk
>jk wrote:
>> SF is not about all the Tech. SOUTH BAY is all about the tech, and
>> doesn't get bart.
>>
>
>Huh?
>I've got a friend that takes the train from Willow Glenn to the City every
>day.
Cal Train perhaps, but not BART.
jk
John R. Carroll
Maybe.
I'll ask.
It's a pretty good deal, I know that.
--
John R. Carroll
J R
http://www.rense.com
What is causing those strange fumes in San Diegograd?
cuhulin
arthr...@webtv.net
wrote:
> "dave" wrote in message
>
> news:4e4dcc71$0$12468$bd46...@news.dslextreme.com...
>
> On 8/18/2011 5:58 PM, RHF wrote:
>
> > -oops- But what you mean by Fairness and Balance
> > is NPR Being 100% Liberals& Democrats {Progressive}
> > -and- AM Talk Radio Being 50% Liberals& Democrats
> > {Progressive}; along with 50% Talk Radio Hosts
> > who are Conservatives&
>
> Gawd you are fucking deranged. There are entire states where all the
> opinion shows are right wing. This is not healthy for America. Why do
> you defend the indefensible? Why are you such a hateful old man?
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I'd love to know where those figures come from. I know personally of two
> liberals on AM radio: Colmes and Schultz. Air America was put together to
> counter the overwhelming right wing talk on AM radio, but it failed. I think
> the actual ratio is something like 15:1 in favor of the right. As far as
> NPR, we listen a lot here, and there is very little political opinion one
> way or another, it's predominantly shows more like magazine shows.
AM radio has become a right -wing-conservative hangout , even George
Noory makes more sense than some of the so-called 'political
idiots' . . .
Richard Steel
wrote:
> "dave" wrote in message
>
> news:4e4dcc71$0$12468$bd46...@news.dslextreme.com...
>
> On 8/18/2011 5:58 PM, RHF wrote:
>
> > -oops- But what you mean by Fairness and Balance
> > is NPR Being 100% Liberals& Democrats {Progressive}
> > -and- AM Talk Radio Being 50% Liberals& Democrats
> > {Progressive}; along with 50% Talk Radio Hosts
> > who are Conservatives&
>
> Gawd you are fucking deranged. There are entire states where all the
> opinion shows are right wing. This is not healthy for America. Why do
> you defend the indefensible? Why are you such a hateful old man?
Are you under the impression that there exists no form on media other
than AM Radio?
There's no movies?
No books?
No magazines?
No Internet?
No broadcast TV?
No cable TV?
No colleges?
Nothing?
Just AM radio?
Richard Steel
> AM radio has become a right -wing-conservative hangout ...
So what?
You're not happy controlling 95% of the media...it's got to be 100%?
Gunner Asch
<rhf-new...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>So then a Judge can NOT Order All Cellphones
>and Pagers "Off" in his Court Room.
>
>-and- a Judge can NOT Order No Photographs
>and Recording in his Court Room.
>
>-plus- a Judge can NOT Ban Reporters from
>his Court Room.
> .
Court rooms are not public conviences.
Gunner
--
"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry
capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency.
It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an
Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense
and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have
such a man for their? president.. Blaming the prince of the
fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of
fools that made him their prince".
arthr...@webtv.net
> Brenda Ann wrote:
>
> > "dave" wrote in message
> >news:4e4dcc71$0$12468$bd46...@news.dslextreme.com...
>
> > On 8/18/2011 5:58 PM, RHF wrote:
>
> >> -oops- But what you mean by Fairness and Balance
> >> is NPR Being 100% Liberals& Democrats {Progressive}
> >> -and- AM Talk Radio Being 50% Liberals& Democrats
> >> {Progressive}; along with 50% Talk Radio Hosts
> >> who are Conservatives&
>
> > Gawd you are fucking deranged. There are entire states where all the
> > opinion shows are right wing. This is not healthy for America. Why do
> > you defend the indefensible? Why are you such a hateful old man?
>
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > I'd love to know where those figures come from. I know personally of two
> > liberals on AM radio: Colmes and Schultz. Air America was put together to
> > counter the overwhelming right wing talk on AM radio, but it failed. I think
> > the actual ratio is something like 15:1 in favor of the right. As far as
> > NPR, we listen a lot here, and there is very little political opinion one
> > way or another, it's predominantly shows more like magazine shows.
>
> I think Roy makes them up. I picture him as a kind of Jabba the Hut
> [sic] with extra punctuation marks.
>
> They are on satellite and in a few big cities and neither is much of a
> leftie. Colmes is too passive and Shultz is a big
> dumb jock. Neither represents intelligently, like Thom Hartmann, who has
> a big AFTRS following. When Limbaugh started pretty much all his
> stations also carried Larry King. That was more balanced than today.
>
> - Show quoted text -
Are you blaspheming George ?
dave
> dave <da...@dave.dave> wrote:
>
>>On 8/19/2011 4:03 PM, jk wrote:
>>> dave<da...@dave.dave> wrote:
>>>
>>>> BART has to provide "state of the
>>>> art" facilities, which includes connectivity while you're waiting for a
>>>> train.
>>> Say's who, and since when?
>>>
>>> All they HAVE to provide is an occasional train.
>>> jk
>>
>>People expect a certain level of amenities while waiting. SF being all
>>about wonderful tech and all.
> Apparently "dave's not (all) here" is true.
>
> SF is not about all the Tech. SOUTH BAY is all about the tech, and
> doesn't get bart.
>
Obviously the whole place is crawling with fascists.
dave
San Diego is the most right wing big city West of Denver. What's with
the Sand Diego"grad" you simp?
dave
>> Gawd you are fucking deranged. There are entire states where all the
>> opinion shows are right wing. This is not healthy for America. Why do
>> you defend the indefensible? Why are you such a hateful old man?
>
> Are you under the impression that there exists no form on media other
> than AM Radio?
>
> There's no movies?
>
> No books?
>
> No magazines?
>
> No Internet?
>
> No broadcast TV?
>
> No cable TV?
>
> No colleges?
>
> Nothing?
>
> Just AM radio?
>
You have to pay to see movies. You have to buy books and read them. Same
for magazines (which are typically no fresher than 3 days, more likely 3
weeks.) The internet is outrageously expensive, requires special
equipment, and has very limited availability outside of cities. It is
75% porn and spam and should have very little credibility when it comes
to current events. Broadcast TV is entirely controlled by the corporate
elite. It is going to be eliminated in the next few years anyway.
Cable? See "Internet". Colleges makes no sense. That is not where one
goes for current events and commentary.
Of all the media listed above, the only one that penetrates 100% is AM
radio (and then only at night some places). Every town has a
flamethrower of record, some cities have 2 or three. If they all tilt
right how is that fair to people that tilt left?
dave
>>
>> They are on satellite and in a few big cities and neither is much of a
>> leftie. Colmes is too passive and Shultz is a big
>> dumb jock. Neither represents intelligently, like Thom Hartmann, who has
>> a big AFTRS following. When Limbaugh started pretty much all his
>> stations also carried Larry King. That was more balanced than today.
>> George Noory is part of the birther fringe.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Are you blaspheming George ?
I'm calling him out as a typical American, complete with voluntary
lobotomy and fear of his own shadow.
dave
Who controls 95% of what media? If you think the mass media is
controlled by anyone other than the corporations who buy ads you are a
stooge, a tool, a simp; digging your own grave and casting your own
bullet.
dave
> On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 22:56:31 -0700 (PDT), RHF
> <rhf-new...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>So then a Judge can NOT Order All Cellphones
>>and Pagers "Off" in his Court Room.
>>
>>-and- a Judge can NOT Order No Photographs
>>and Recording in his Court Room.
>>
>>-plus- a Judge can NOT Ban Reporters from
>>his Court Room.
>> .
>
> Court rooms are not public conviences.
>
> Gunner
>
All government functions are open to the public unless there is an
obvious compelling state interest in keeping a proceeding secret. This
is a foundation principle in this country (U. S. of A.)
Mike
>
> All government functions are open to the public unless there is an
> obvious compelling state interest in keeping a proceeding secret. This
> is a foundation principle in this country (U. S. of A.
Dave, you're not that naive.
dave
I am if it strengthens a theoretical position I've taken for the fun of
it. There are no secrets. That is the one and only secret. There are no
secrets.
John Smith
So, where are the kennedy investigation files that they sealed, where is
the black op money going? How much gold, if any, is in Ft. Knox? Where
is the data on the fed audit? Etc., etc.
Truth is, we are manipulated into a dark corner where no one has seen
the light of truth shine on our criminal govt. in many, many decades ...
Regards,
JS
dave
> On 8/21/2011 9:44 AM, dave wrote:
>>
>> I am [naive] if it strengthens a theoretical position I've taken for the fun of
>> it. There are no secrets. That is the one and only secret. There are no
>> secrets.
>
> So, where are the kennedy investigation files that they sealed, where is
> the black op money going? How much gold, if any, is in Ft. Knox? Where
> is the data on the fed audit? Etc., etc.
>
> Truth is, we are manipulated into a dark corner where no one has seen
> the light of truth shine on our criminal govt. in many, many decades ...
>
> Regards,
> JS
Actually things are exactly how they seem. The best place to hide
something is where everyone can see it.
Wikileaks proved there is no grand conspiracy. Just a bunch of pathetic
stuff, really.
Now if you want to talk about the American Taliban, aka Bachman and
Perry and the Dominionist plot to seize America, I'm with you on that
one.
arthr...@webtv.net
That is why his program is so successful . Oh, btw, where is it's the
original founder, Art Bell ? Was he finally 'abducted' ?! Or just
laughing all the way to the bank ...
Rich Grise
An honest man has no need for secrets.
Hope This Helps!
Rich
J R
little bit of paint on it, he would get $5,000 for it.Those fools
bringing him their junk to restore, he is laughing at them all the way
to the bank.His son got a free junk electric fan, he restored it for a
fathers day gift, he wound up paying $50.00 for a new motor.I have an
old electric fan just like that one, it still works as good as new.I
have a lot of old electric fans, some of them are at least eighty years
old or older, they still work too.
cuhulin
F. George McDuffee
<bit_b...@gmx.com> wrote:
<snip>
>So, where are the kennedy investigation files that they sealed, where is
>the black op money going? How much gold, if any, is in Ft. Knox? Where
>is the data on the fed audit? Etc., etc.
Two more items to add to your list. I filed FOIA requests
for this info and got blown off with no data.
(1) Where is the money or what was it used for that Chrysler
and GM were reported to have repaid?
(2) The US sold 30 million bbls of oil from the strategic
oil reserve when the il prices were spiking. My questions
were:
(a) Who bought the oil?
(b) How much did they pay for it?
(c) Where is this money now or what was it used for.
To put (2) in perspective 30 million bbls of oil @ 90$US/bbl
[then current market price] = 2.7 billion $US, which is a
lot of taxpayer money.
J R
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=312356
cuhulin
dave
dave
Texas is just as broke as California. And it smells funny to boot.
Brenda Ann
"dave" wrote in message
news:4e5187f3$0$12497$bd46...@news.dslextreme.com...
J R wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's just cuz of what's ON those boots.. :)