DC Area Space
British Lucky Paul
During my initial discussion with maymay about helping to unorganize a
DC event, I committed to working on a solution for space as that
struck me as one of the most challenging aspects to getting things off
the ground. I think it is critical for the events to be free for
attendees so an ongoing space solution that is "self financed" in some
way seems to be the way forward.
My proposal is two fold, firstly to get an initial donation, secondly
to come up with an idea that provides an ongoing method of funding the
space.
I have secured an initial donation to get us of the ground. To
perpetually fund the space going forward, I am proposing using one of
my few skills - namely, throwing a great party! The idea is for me to
host a non KFA party in the evening of the event that funds the space
for KFA for the following event.
I'm just going to share my thoughts on the subject and look for
feedback from everyone...
I feel one of the requirements for space is that it be neutral ground
not affiliated or associated to any one group in the DC scene. My hope
for KFA DC is that it appeals to people from all of the different
local groups. My list will reflect my BDSM background, I am thinking
of Black Rose, Dark Odyssey, BESS, TNG, WholeDC, Rapture etc but I'm
sure others can think of many more.
So to cut a long story short, I have a space in mind so I called and
had a discussion with the owner today. Here are the pros and cons...
Pros
It's an amazing space
Very large with a capacity of up to 400 so plenty of room to grow
10 rooms for presentations
Plenty of additional room for dare I say "social space" :-)
A large area suitable for a great party in the evening.
It is a swinger club which means they are very kink positive and
supportive of the goals of KFA.
A cost of under $1000 for the daytime use looks likely but I am still
working on the details
Plenty of free parking
Cons
It is located outside of DC and is closer to Baltimore
It isn't directly accessable via public transportation
It isn't available on Fridays or Saturdays
Conclusion.
My thinking is that KFA could be held as a quarterly event. In that
case, the Fri/Sat problem could be resolved by holding the event and
party on the Sunday of a holiday weekend. The space is available on
Memorial weekend Sunday which is May 24th.
While no space solution or date is without issues or problems, I think
this space brings a lot to the table. I'm a great believer in the fail
early concept and propose that we give it a try and see how it works.
If the consensus is that we should look elsewhere after giving it a
try then let's discuss that then when we have all got some data points
on what type of space could work better.
So what do you think? How does the first KFA event on May 24th sound
to everyone?
Cheers, Paul.
Stephanie Olmstead-Dean
Cheers,
Stephanie
Paul
events it seems impossible not to clash with something. The problem is
that needing a holiday Sunday makes alternatives difficult. A lot of
people simply can't afford to go to a camp event so a free event could
soften the blow to those left behind :-)
Paul.
Stephanie Olmstead-Dean
stephanie
maymay
amounts of time to go over this in detail tonight, but I wanted to
make sure I got this to you all ASAP. Please excuse my terseness in
some places, and I apologize in advance if some parts of this email
comes out sounding cross, because that's not my intent. I'm *SO*
looking forward to DC I can't even appropriately describe it in
words. :)
Also, as an aside, I will be in Washington DC for Sex 2.0[0] over the
weekend of May 8th and I sincerely hope I get the chance to meet all
you DC folk in person over that weekend.
On Apr 2, 2009, at 9:20 PM, British Lucky Paul wrote:
> an ongoing space solution that is "self financed" in some
> way seems to be the way forward.
> My proposal is two fold, firstly to get an initial donation, secondly
> to come up with an idea that provides an ongoing method of funding the
> space.
I'm really happy to see how strongly you believe in this idea and how
much thought you're putting into it. That said, and I'm going to
repeat this many times: if you are unorganizing a KinkForAll event,
please focus on NOW, and *not* on the future. You do *not* need to
worry about setting up a perpetual, self-financing system. This is
overhead that is simply unnecessary.
The future will come, and the only way to ensure that it happens is to
get something going NOW. Therefore, focus on one and only one event.
It may be the first step on a larger journey, but none of us needs to
burden ourselves with all the future mountains we'll climb when we
haven't yet taken this first step.
> I have secured an initial donation to get us of the ground. To
> perpetually fund the space going forward, I am proposing using one of
> my few skills - namely, throwing a great party! The idea is for me to
> host a non KFA party in the evening of the event that funds the space
> for KFA for the following event.
I love that you and others want to supplement KFA events with parties.
That's awesome. However, parties that are fundraisers are *VERY*
treacherous. I'm of the opinion that parties may actually do more harm
than good for intercommunity spaces (I hope to expand on this point in
a coming blog post), and I'd urge you to instead focus on putting on a
KFA event rather than focusing on fundraising through parties. Again,
that is not necessary—it will come.
If the first KinkForAll Washington DC event can only hold 40 people
because you only were able to get two rooms on a sidestreet theatre—
then GREAT! You had an event and you can grow from there.
My point is that efforts that go to fundraising are efforts that are
not going to putting on a KinkForAll Washington DC event. They're
instead going towards a party or dinner or benefit or whatever, and
that is overhead at this point since we've never had a KinkForAll
Washington DC yet.
KinkForAll NYC managed to raise over $1,000 without even trying hard.
Money will come; there is plenty of it—they print more money every
day. We went from concept to execution in less than three months
because we had *one* and only *one* direction: the event itself. Don't
let fears get you sidetracked, *especially* since you've already
managed to secure a donation. Now you should be working within the
constraints of that donation.
By the way, I don't see any information about that donation on the
financials spreadsheet[4], which is a problem and must be remedied
ASAP so that the financing of this event remains transparent and
public. (Take a look at the KinkForAll New York City financial
spread[5] sheet for reference.)
Believe me, the more we focus on the event, the more people will
believe we're really going to do it, which will give them more reason
to donate to us.
> I'm just going to share my thoughts on the subject and look for
> feedback from everyone...
>
> I feel one of the requirements for space is that it be neutral ground
> not affiliated or associated to any one group in the DC scene. My hope
> for KFA DC is that it appeals to people from all of the different
> local groups. My list will reflect my BDSM background, I am thinking
> of Black Rose, Dark Odyssey, BESS, TNG, WholeDC, Rapture etc but I'm
> sure others can think of many more.
Yes! Very strong yes! Paul, you are heavily involved in the BDSM
community. So am I. This means that the two of us need to focus on
everything EXCEPT the BDSM community. Our connections will already be
doing that for us. Instead, let's ask around to try and find people in
the GLBT, gender queer, polyamory, sex magic, tantra, swinger, butch/
femme, hacker culture, goth/punk, and every other scene we have NO
connections in, and let's get *those* people engaged and excited and
able to excite and engage the rest of their community.
Again my point is very much geared towards finding out where we
*lack*, not where we have plenty already. By virtue of our BDSM-scene
connections, we can pretty much guarantee that we'll have a decent
enough turnout of people into BDSM. So putting equal efforts into
reaching the BDSM community as we do trying to reach other communities
will cause a much greater skew toward BDSM than we want. Now's the
time for us to skew our own efforts to balance the biases of our own
social connections.
> So to cut a long story short, I have a space in mind so I called and
> had a discussion with the owner today. Here are the pros and cons...
What and where exactly is this potential space? Give us a name,
please. :)
> Pros
>
> It's an amazing space
> Very large with a capacity of up to 400 so plenty of room to grow
This sounds lovely, but right now our KinkForAll Washington DC page[1]
has 11 people listed as being interested. (And actually, almost
everyone is listed as "unorganizing," which is wonderful, but where
are you all? Introduce yourself so we can coordinate with you!) A
space for 400 people is currently overkill. Let's get some options
that include spaces that can only accommodate 100 or 200 people on the
table as well, please.
> 10 rooms for presentations
> Plenty of additional room for dare I say "social space" :-)
For more information, please see the thread about a social room[2]. (I
think, Paul, that you've been following this thread already.)
The gist is that social rooms could potentially backfire against the
goal of KinkForAll events, namely fast-paced social interaction that
revolve around short, 20-minute presentations. If we have a ton of
extra space for more social rooms, I say we should turn them into
presentation rooms. There's no reason why we can't have 15
presentations running at once IFF we have the participant numbers that
demand it.
At the same time, there is no reason why we should consider getting a
space with 10 presentation rooms if we *don't* have the participant
numbers that demand it and if we can get a more appropriately sized
space in a better location or for less money, etc. It's a resources
balancing act.
This is why it's so important to tailor a KinkForAll's physical space
around the actual participants that we have, and the only way we're
going to be able to accurately estimate that is if we actively engage
participants *now,* in the very early stages of pre-planning, as well
as all the way through post-event activities. Not just let them know
it's happening, but actually get them on this list and talking with
all of us about making the thing happen. Remember: KinkForAll *is* the
participants, not the money, the space, the equipment, or anything else.
As Bruce Lee said: "Be like water. If you put water into a cup, it
becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle and it becomes the
bottle. You put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot." Bruce was very
smart: our physical space should be a mirror image of the the needs of
our participants.
> A large area suitable for a great party in the evening.
> It is a swinger club which means they are very kink positive and
> supportive of the goals of KFA.
> A cost of under $1000 for the daytime use looks likely but I am still
> working on the details
See money concerns, or rather why I'm not very concerned about money
and why you need not be, either, above.
> Plenty of free parking
>
> Cons
>
> It is located outside of DC and is closer to Baltimore
> It isn't directly accessable via public transportation
This is a problem. It's extremely important that the event be very
accessible to the largest numbers of people as possible, and in a
metropolitan area this means it should be accessible by public
transit. Many people who would be wavering on whether or not to come
will simply decline if the effort to get there is too great, but will
be won over if they can get there easily. (That's exactly what
happened at KFANYC—we had a surprisingly high number of 'walk ins.')
Can we find a space that is accessible via public transportation that
may not be quite so large but could also offer us use of the space as
a venue? There is no *need* for KinkForAll Washington DC to be crazy
huge—especially not with the first one.
> It isn't available on Fridays or Saturdays
That's not a problem. If we end up using that venue, we'll just have
the event on a day other than Friday or Saturday. ;)
> Conclusion.
>
> My thinking is that KFA could be held as a quarterly event.
I would urge you to be very wary of creating a recurring schedule for
KinkForAll events. Let's not be tempted by the notion that this is
anything other than what it is: a bunch of people who spontaneously
choose to get together and put on an awesome event, each and every
time. Each and every time is a different event, with its own impetus
and its own lifecycle. There's no reason to string one event together
with a subsequent one in an organizational schedule.
See also the Frequently Asked Questions about "How often do KinkForAll
events happen? Annually? Monthly?"[3]
> In that
> case, the Fri/Sat problem could be resolved by holding the event and
> party on the Sunday of a holiday weekend. The space is available on
> Memorial weekend Sunday which is May 24th.
So, do you mean May 24th for KinkForAll Washington DC or for a party/
fundraiser/other pseudo-associated event?
If you mean for the event itself, then that's not a lot of time and
everything I'm saying about the fundraiser being a decoy for our
efforts is doubly urgent—especially the things about engaging the non-
BDSM communities. That said, I think we can accomplish a May 24th date
if we can confirm a good space for that day, noting the concerns I
raised, above. Otherwise, I would say let's *get MORE VENUE OPTIONS*
first, and then come up with a date possibly in June.
> While no space solution or date is without issues or problems, I think
> this space brings a lot to the table. I'm a great believer in the fail
> early concept and propose that we give it a try and see how it works.
> If the consensus is that we should look elsewhere after giving it a
> try then let's discuss that then when we have all got some data points
> on what type of space could work better.
I also like fail early, but there's a big difference between fail
early and fail-because-we-haven't-got-enough-options. The point of
fail early methodologies are, after all, to try many things and to do
that we need many options.
I find it hard to believe that there's no sex-positive space within DC
city limits or within public transit that wouldn't let us do
KinkForAll, especially when you consider that there is *NO PLAY* at
the event itself. If we can separate the play portion of efforts,
suddenly many more venue options will open up to us and, I know
everyone likes to party, but there are already enough parties and
there isn't a single KinkForAll Washington DC yet, so let's focus on
the event first and parties afterwards.
> So what do you think? How does the first KFA event on May 24th sound
> to everyone?
>
> Cheers, Paul.
I'm all for May 24th if we can confirm a space first, otherwise I
think it's just too soon. Sometime in June might be better in that case.
Cheers,
-maymay
Blog: http://maybemaimed.com
Community: http://KinkForAll.org
Volunteering: http://ConversioVirium.org/author/maymay
EXTERNAL REFERENCES:
[0] http://sex20con.com
[1] http://kinkforall.pbwiki.com/KinkForAllWashingtonDC
[2] http://groups.google.com/group/kinkforall/browse_thread/thread/fc80d1f4305a430d
[3] http://kinkforall.pbwiki.com/FrequentlyAskedQuestions#HowoftendoKinkForAlleventshappenAnnuallyMonthly
[4] http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pteUu99T2NougObhuDtM_KA
[5] http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p-vqp1M6ulqdSXO0CVALRKg&gid=1
maymay
You make a good point. It really is nigh impossible to avoid conflicting with *some* event. And as I said, *I* would be there. I can't possibly be the only person missing camp!
stephanie
British Lucky Paul
which I hope doesn't come across as defensive. Apologies if I seem
blunt at times too :-)
"I'm really happy to see how strongly you believe in this idea and
how
much thought you're putting into it. That said, and I'm going to
repeat this many times: if you are unorganizing a KinkForAll event,
please focus on NOW, and *not* on the future. You do *not* need to
worry about setting up a perpetual, self-financing system. This is
overhead that is simply unnecessary."
guy without a big bank account, my only method of helping is with
fundraisers. It seems the simplest method to get things rolling for
the time being. I'll happily drop the effort as and when other sources
appear.
"The future will come, and the only way to ensure that it happens is
to
get something going NOW. Therefore, focus on one and only one event.
It may be the first step on a larger journey, but none of us needs
to
burden ourselves with all the future mountains we'll climb when we
haven't yet taken this first step. "
"I love that you and others want to supplement KFA events with
parties.
That's awesome. However, parties that are fundraisers are *VERY*
treacherous. I'm of the opinion that parties may actually do more
harm
than good for intercommunity spaces (I hope to expand on this point
in
a coming blog post), and I'd urge you to instead focus on putting on
a
KFA event rather than focusing on fundraising through parties.
Again,
that is not necessary—it will come."
putting on an event without a location and date :-) To be clear, the
party would be a completely separate non KFA event that will allow me,
Paul, to made a donation for any potential future KFA event.
"If the first KinkForAll Washington DC event can only hold 40 people
because you only were able to get two rooms on a sidestreet theatre—
then GREAT! You had an event and you can grow from there.
My point is that efforts that go to fundraising are efforts that are
not going to putting on a KinkForAll Washington DC event. They're
instead going towards a party or dinner or benefit or whatever, and
that is overhead at this point since we've never had a KinkForAll
Washington DC yet."
The space I'm proposing is one I had already identified as a party
location independent of the KFA project and I can't commit to the time
it would take to find it though others may. The efforts for the party
were efforts I was already planning, I just thought it would be a good
opportunity to help with the cost and location of space.
"KinkForAll NYC managed to raise over $1,000 without even trying
hard.
Money will come; there is plenty of it—they print more money every
day. We went from concept to execution in less than three months
because we had *one* and only *one* direction: the event itself.
Don't
let fears get you sidetracked, *especially* since you've already
managed to secure a donation. Now you should be working within the
constraints of that donation."
event, I'm merely trying to plan so that I can make a donation for the
next one. Money will come but not if you tell people that want to help
make it come not to bother. It doesn't come out of thin air.
"By the way, I don't see any information about that donation on the
financials spreadsheet[4], which is a problem and must be remedied
ASAP so that the financing of this event remains transparent and
public. (Take a look at the KinkForAll New York City financial
spread[5] sheet for reference.)"
information is that it hasn't been made yet. It will be made at the
end of the evening of an earlier unconnected event on May 25th based
upon how many people show up. As soon as I have a number I will add
it.
"Believe me, the more we focus on the event, the more people will
believe we're really going to do it, which will give them more
reason
to donate to us. "
a date and location :-)
Yes! Very strong yes! Paul, you are heavily involved in the BDSM
community. So am I. This means that the two of us need to focus on
everything EXCEPT the BDSM community. Our connections will already
be
doing that for us. Instead, let's ask around to try and find people
in
the GLBT, gender queer, polyamory, sex magic, tantra, swinger, butch/
femme, hacker culture, goth/punk, and every other scene we have NO
connections in, and let's get *those* people engaged and excited and
able to excite and engage the rest of their community.
Again my point is very much geared towards finding out where we
*lack*, not where we have plenty already. By virtue of our BDSM-
scene
connections, we can pretty much guarantee that we'll have a decent
enough turnout of people into BDSM. So putting equal efforts into
reaching the BDSM community as we do trying to reach other
communities
will cause a much greater skew toward BDSM than we want. Now's the
time for us to skew our own efforts to balance the biases of our own
social connections.
date and location is what is needed to move people on from mere wiki
edits.
"What and where exactly is this potential space? Give us a name,
please. :) "
"This sounds lovely, but right now our KinkForAll Washington DC page
[1]
has 11 people listed as being interested. (And actually, almost
everyone is listed as "unorganizing," which is wonderful, but where
are you all? Introduce yourself so we can coordinate with you!) A
space for 400 people is currently overkill. Let's get some options
that include spaces that can only accommodate 100 or 200 people on
the
table as well, please. "
better for 100-200. I'd love to hear other suggestions if any other
unorganizers have other options.
"The gist is that social rooms could potentially backfire against
the
goal of KinkForAll events, namely fast-paced social interaction that
revolve around short, 20-minute presentations. If we have a ton of
extra space for more social rooms, I say we should turn them into
presentation rooms. There's no reason why we can't have 15
presentations running at once IFF we have the participant numbers
that
demand it. "
social space if it is available. Let those that need to take a time
out have one.
location. Build it and they will come - especially to a free event :-)
So in essence I agree with your Bruce Lee point, a big tea pot will be
filled! If you don't know how much water you need to store, it is
better to have a container too large than too small. We are working
with a lot of unknowables right now in terms of attendance.
"See money concerns, or rather why I'm not very concerned about
money
and why you need not be, either, above. "
didn't fall from the sky!
"This is a problem. It's extremely important that the event be very
accessible to the largest numbers of people as possible, and in a
metropolitan area this means it should be accessible by public
transit. Many people who would be wavering on whether or not to come
will simply decline if the effort to get there is too great, but
will
be won over if they can get there easily. (That's exactly what
happened at KFANYC—we had a surprisingly high number of 'walk ins.')
Can we find a space that is accessible via public transportation
that
may not be quite so large but could also offer us use of the space
as
a venue? There is no *need* for KinkForAll Washington DC to be crazy
huge—especially not with the first one. "
it as a necessity. Who is the "we" that will find it? My guess is it
may be one of the many that show up to the first event. Affordable
space within the district is very difficult to find and a project I
can't commit to personally. The space I'm proposing isn't perfect in
the same way that the NY space wasn't, but I do think it is usable and
has some great points going for it. A bird in the hand...
"I would urge you to be very wary of creating a recurring schedule
for
KinkForAll events. Let's not be tempted by the notion that this is
anything other than what it is: a bunch of people who spontaneously
choose to get together and put on an awesome event, each and every
time. Each and every time is a different event, with its own impetus
and its own lifecycle. There's no reason to string one event
together
with a subsequent one in an organizational schedule. "
for a KinkForAll are set purely by the initiative of the people who
help unorganize it.". I'm trying to make an initial event happen and
expressing my willingness to help make 3 or 4 a year happen.
"So, do you mean May 24th for KinkForAll Washington DC or for a party/
fundraiser/other pseudo-associated event?
If you mean for the event itself, then that's not a lot of time and
everything I'm saying about the fundraiser being a decoy for our
efforts is doubly urgent—especially the things about engaging the non-
BDSM communities. That said, I think we can accomplish a May 24th date
if we can confirm a good space for that day, noting the concerns I
raised, above. Otherwise, I would say let's *get MORE VENUE OPTIONS*
first, and then come up with a date possibly in June."
party that night separately so I can donate for the next one.
The problem with the "more venue options" suggestion is that so far
I'm the only one who's stepped up with a concrete proposal and if we
don't commit to the date soon we could lose it or lack enough time to
prepare for it.
"I also like fail early, but there's a big difference between fail
early and fail-because-we-haven't-got-enough-options. The point of
fail early methodologies are, after all, to try many things and to do
that we need many options.
I find it hard to believe that there's no sex-positive space within DC
city limits or within public transit that wouldn't let us do
KinkForAll, especially when you consider that there is *NO PLAY* at
the event itself. If we can separate the play portion of efforts,
suddenly many more venue options will open up to us and, I know
everyone likes to party, but there are already enough parties and
there isn't a single KinkForAll Washington DC yet, so let's focus on
the event first and parties afterwards."
is very easy to point to a number of reasons why a proposal isn't
ideal or couldn't work. the idea behind the concept is to let someone
try their proposal and if it fails to look for alternative solutions
at that point rather than shooting it down before it's had the
opportunity to succeed or fail. Having said that, someone else coming
forward with an alternative proposal would be great. I think that as
long as the unorganizers are sticking broadly to the concept of KFA,
the details should be devolved to the local level by those that are
willing to do the unorganizing.
To conclude, the wiki states that "you—yes, you—can organize a
KinkForAll event in your locale anytime you wish to do so." and that
is all I'm trying to do. I've got a commitment to a donation for the
space, found a location and a date. Why not just do it?
My fingers are tired now so I'm hanging up but looking forward to
reading responses.
Cheers, Paul.
>
> read more »
maymay
> Thanks for your feedback maymay. I'm going to respond point by point
> which I hope doesn't come across as defensive. Apologies if I seem
> blunt at times too :-)
Excellent! :) I enjoy it when we can cut straight to the meat of the
matter.
I'll respond point-by-point as well, but for the most part let me be
clear from the get-go that I agree with you and am THRILLED that
you've shown the initiative you have. I'm eager to see initiative from
others in the DC area as well, because, as you know, there *is* a lot
of work that goes into events like this—even "un"organized ones—but
the more people who participate the less work any individual has to do
to make awesome things happen.
My intent was not to discourage you (and I hope I didn't come across
that way) but rather to encourage you to *recruit* others. Right now,
we *don't* have enough people actually willing to unorganize
KinkForAll Washington DC, and we have a very slim shot of making it
happen if it's *only* you and I working to make it reality. There are
ostensibly 8 people signed up right now to "unorganize" Washington
DC's first-ever KinkForAll (eight!!) and yet the only people I've seen
discussing anything concrete for the event on this list is you, me,
and James DC. This points to a lack of actual participation, which is
my primary concern for the timeline for an event held in May.
> Agreed, but if the event is to remain free it needs donations. As a
> guy without a big bank account, my only method of helping is with
> fundraisers. It seems the simplest method to get things rolling for
> the time being. I'll happily drop the effort as and when other sources
> appear.
Actually, you've *already* done a lot of other great things for
KinkForAll Washington DC. You made the KFADC wiki page. You made the
financials spreadsheet. You're talking about it all on this list.
Don't sell yourself short! Fundraisers are just one piece of the
puzzle, and you can do and already have done a lot of different
things! :)
> "I love that you and others want to supplement KFA events with
> parties.
> That's awesome. However, parties that are fundraisers are *VERY*
> treacherous. I'm of the opinion that parties may actually do more
> harm
> than good for intercommunity spaces (I hope to expand on this point
> in
> a coming blog post), and I'd urge you to instead focus on putting on
> a
> KFA event rather than focusing on fundraising through parties.
> Again,
> that is not necessary—it will come."
>
> I look forward to your blog post. I'm confused as to how to focus on
> putting on an event without a location and date :-)
I'm not saying you can put on a KinkForAll event without a date and
location, I'm saying you can put one on without a fundraiser. :) Focus
on the event by looking for a venue and coming up with a feasible
date, and the funds follow. This is why I want to learn about more
venue options. We initially had three feasible venue ideas for KFANYC
before we even had a single cent donated, so we were able to adjust
our venue option to the amount of funding we got.
> To be clear, the
> party would be a completely separate non KFA event that will allow me,
> Paul, to made a donation for any potential future KFA event.
This is fantastic, thank you! In *addition* to donating monies to get
a venue, we need coordination. It sounds like you've put on *two* hats
right now, Paul. :) This is a lot of work, and I guess another way to
say what I was trying to say in my email before is that I want us to
get other people actively participating so that you don't overwork
yourself on this, as I've gotten the impression you would much rather
prefer to do more fundraising and not as much other coordination. Of
course, if I'm wrong about that, then that's my bad and you're just
even awesomer than I thought. Please feel free to correct me.
> "If the first KinkForAll Washington DC event can only hold 40 people
> because you only were able to get two rooms on a sidestreet theatre—
> then GREAT! You had an event and you can grow from there.
>
> My point is that efforts that go to fundraising are efforts that are
> not going to putting on a KinkForAll Washington DC event. They're
> instead going towards a party or dinner or benefit or whatever, and
> that is overhead at this point since we've never had a KinkForAll
> Washington DC yet."
>
> I don't know of a small affordable location in DC with metro access.
Darn, neither do I. :( Does anyone else on this list know of one?
> The space I'm proposing is one I had already identified as a party
> location independent of the KFA project and I can't commit to the time
> it would take to find it though others may.
It's okay that you can't commit to the time it would take to find
other options, and again, this is why I would love to see other DC
locals stepping up. As you and James DC are the only DC locals active
on this list right now, it falls to you to encourage your neighbors to
join this list and participate because if they don't participate then
we're not going to succeed. I'm doing the same thing via the Internet
by trying to find DC-based sex bloggers and Twitter people and talking
about KinkForAll with them online, too, but my contacts are few and
far between. If you know of anyone I should get in touch with, please
let me know!
> The efforts for the party
> were efforts I was already planning, I just thought it would be a good
> opportunity to help with the cost and location of space.
Ahhh, okay, this isn't something I was aware of and explains a lot to
me about why you are putting so much effort into it. Sorry about that—
the fact that this other party you're running was a pre-existing plan
was not clear to me.
> I am working within the constraints of the money needed for the first
> event, I'm merely trying to plan so that I can make a donation for the
> next one. Money will come but not if you tell people that want to help
> make it come not to bother. It doesn't come out of thin air.
Totally agreed; money doesn't come out of thin air and it takes work.
I'm definitely not intending to tell people "not to bother with
funding," but rather not to *focus only* on funding for KinkForAll
Washington DC—yet.
And, so, again, this is why I keep getting the impression that you are
more interested in offering donations to KinkForAll Washington DC
events than some of the other, additional tasks that need doing. This
is better than okay, this is great because it means funding gets taken
care of effectively, but it does mean that we need more people who can
coordinate with us to accomplish the rest of the tasks not yet covered
by fundraising. I'm willing and mostly able to do much of that
legwork, but I'm not physically in DC, nor do I have an extensive
network of DC area connections, which limits my usefulness. That said,
if you give me contact details of people to contact, I will absolutely
do that, so if you have this information available, again, please send
it to me.
Perhaps James DC, since he's also stepped up with some initiative, can
also help me do this. This would leave you, Paul, freer to focus on
fundraising (definitely a necessary part of any event) and James and I
and whoever else is able and willing to do so could do our best to
find other DC-area venues and liaise with them, etc.
> "By the way, I don't see any information about that donation on the
> financials spreadsheet[4], which is a problem and must be remedied
> ASAP so that the financing of this event remains transparent and
> public. (Take a look at the KinkForAll New York City financial
> spread[5] sheet for reference.)"
>
> I created the financial spreadsheet for DC. The reason there is no
> information is that it hasn't been made yet. It will be made at the
> end of the evening of an earlier unconnected event on May 25th based
> upon how many people show up. As soon as I have a number I will add
> it.
I'm sorry, I'm confused…. Do you mean to say that a *donation* hasn't
been made yet? If so, then maybe there are two donations we are
talking about and somewhere along the way they were miscommunicated.
A) A donation to the efforts of KinkForAll Washington DC — monies that
can go towards a venue rental and other needs
B) A donation to your efforts to host a party — monies that go towards
your own parties, which may or may not produce profit that may or may
not then become a donation, ala A).
As you know, only A) should go on the financials spreadsheet. You
mentioned in a previous email that you have "secured an initial
donation to get us of the ground". So, which of A) or B) is that
donation?
> I can and have done this with Holly and others but again, I think a
> date and location is what is needed to move people on from mere wiki
> edits.
Cool! And, agreed; let's find a space and time and push the snowball
down the mountain. :)
> I'm of the "wisdom of crowds" mindset rather than a top down ruling on
> social space if it is available. Let those that need to take a time
> out have one.
Yeah, certainly. If the Tabu venue is the one we end up using and it
can support a social room as well as provide for all the other needs
of KinkForAll, then I'll be happy to be in support of that.
> I think we get the participant numbers when we announce a date and
> location. Build it and they will come - especially to a free event :-)
Totally agreed, I'm simply invested in making sure that the "they" who
come won't solely be of one persuasion. We don't need a date or a time
to start talking to communities we are not a part of about KinkForAll
Washington DC.
We started promoting the idea of KinkForAll New York City heavily
before we had finalized either a location or a date, and I
deliberately sent emails to groups like the New York Area Bisexual
Network, Sex Workers Outreach Project, and others who are not
explicitly associated with the BDSM community because I knew that my
affiliations with the BDSM community in NYC would draw the BDSM crowd
already. Indeed, KFANYC was somewhat skewed towards BDSM presenters
and topics despite my spending the majority of my time promoting
KinkForAll in non-BDSM spaces.
We should be making contact with non-BDSM community organizations in
the DC area *now.* And again, I'm happy to do this myself if you can
tell me a little bit about some of the groups that exist in DC. (I'm
not local to DC.)
> So in essence I agree with your Bruce Lee point, a big tea pot will be
> filled! If you don't know how much water you need to store, it is
> better to have a container too large than too small. We are working
> with a lot of unknowables right now in terms of attendance.
You don't think it would be a bad thing if our water container
overflowed, do you? I think that if it did, that would be quite the
marker of success, actually! When drinking tea, better to have a small
cup that you refill many times than no cup at all. :)
> "This is a problem. It's extremely important that the event be very
> accessible to the largest numbers of people as possible, and in a
> metropolitan area this means it should be accessible by public
> transit. Many people who would be wavering on whether or not to come
> will simply decline if the effort to get there is too great, but
> will
> be won over if they can get there easily. (That's exactly what
> happened at KFANYC—we had a surprisingly high number of 'walk ins.')
>
> Can we find a space that is accessible via public transportation
> that
> may not be quite so large but could also offer us use of the space
> as
> a venue? There is no *need* for KinkForAll Washington DC to be crazy
> huge—especially not with the first one. "
>
> I think to a degree that's an NY mindset :-) While ideal, I don't see
> it as a necessity.
You know DC better than I do, so okay, maybe it's not a necessity. It
would still be nice if we at least knew where some *potential* venues
for metro-area spaces were, yes?
Anyone else reading this that isn't Paul nor I (since we don't know of
these other venues), please tell us about them if you know of them!
> Agreed, I'm just following the spirit of the FAQ page, namely "Dates
> for a KinkForAll are set purely by the initiative of the people who
> help unorganize it.". I'm trying to make an initial event happen and
> expressing my willingness to help make 3 or 4 a year happen.
Great! This is again one of the things you say that makes me want to
help you focus on fundraising by finding ways to spread out the tasks
of coordinating everything else to others, including myself if I have
to. You're already an awesome fundraiser, it makes total sense that
you would contribute greatly doing that. Therefore, since if I'm
correct in understanding that what you want to focus on is mostly
funding and you're already working to get the funding issues covered,
I'm setting my challenge to be making sure the event can be successful
on other fronts by lifting as much of the other tasks that also need
doing off your plate as I can.
> I mean May 24th for KFA DC. I'm just proposing me, Paul, throwing a
> party that night separately so I can donate for the next one.
Ah, again, that was not entirely clear. This is one reason why I'm so
wary of how parties are communicated around the notion of KinkForAll.
If *I* can't clearly understand the distinctions, what hope do people
unfamiliar with KinkForAll have?
To clarify, I am in no way against your throwing a party that
coincides with a KinkForAll event. I'm concerned that the mere
coincidence of the party and the event thrown on the same day is
enough to imply a connection—and indeed there is one. To offset it, I
really think communication about said party needs to be made
carefully, and possibly even separately. (I really should write that
blog post about why I feel parties are bad for inter-community spaces.
(Ack…so much to dooo!))
> The problem with the "more venue options" suggestion is that so far
> I'm the only one who's stepped up with a concrete proposal and if we
> don't commit to the date soon we could lose it or lack enough time to
> prepare for it.
I totally agree. That is a problem. :) Clearly, we need more people to
engage with our efforts and show initiative. How can we make that
happen? Here are some ideas I have:
* Get a list of DC area bloggers and email them or comment on some
of their blog posts, and write to them about KinkForAll Washington DC
and ask them to join this list.
* Print flyers about KinkForAll Washington DC with the
KinkForAll.org address and the mailing list URL on them, and put them
in coffee shops around the city.
* Buy one or more KinkForAll icon t-shirts from http://printfection.com/kinkforallnewyorkcity
and give them away at the next meeting/party/munch/housewarming/
wedding/whatever you go to (there is ZERO markup on those shirts and
other merchandise)
* Ask your friends what presentations they want to see from you if
you were to present at KinkForAll Washington DC, and brainstorm some
ideas of what they could present about next time you see them
What are some other ideas you have?
> I think that as
> long as the unorganizers are sticking broadly to the concept of KFA,
> the details should be devolved to the local level by those that are
> willing to do the unorganizing.
I totally agree. That's why you're the man, Paul! Like, really, it's
pretty much *all* on you right now, because I'm not going to be in DC
until May 9th (and only for the Sex 2.0 conference). And as you said
earlier, there's a lot of work to put into this! You've already
mentioned you can't commit to finding other options for venues, and
that's not the only thing that needs doing! There's a LOT more that
needs to happen, such as those emails to the DC area non-BDSM groups.
Do you have the time do all of this? Even if you did, I don't want
this to eat your life!
Indeed, if no one else steps up and does some of this with us then
there won't *be* other options for venues or emails to other groups or
anything of the sort. There is no way I could have done KFANYC alone—
and I didn't do it alone—and so I don't want you to do KinkForAll
Washington DC alone! I mean, if you did, it wouldn't be a KinkForALL. :)
That's why I'm so adamant about getting more people involved. See my
list of brainstormed ideas for getting DC people involved, above.
> To conclude, the wiki states that "you—yes, you—can organize a
> KinkForAll event in your locale anytime you wish to do so." and that
> is all I'm trying to do. I've got a commitment to a donation for the
> space, found a location and a date. Why not just do it?
Yeah, I think that as things stand right now, since it's that way or
the highway, we should totally move forward, and I'm 100% behind you
doing that, Paul. I also think that we should simultaneously be
looking at other possibilities because, as far as I know, other
possibilities haven't been explored due to our own ignorance about
their existence. The single most effective way *I* know of to learn
about more possible venues and the like is to get more local DC people
participating in this conversation right here on this mailing list.
I'm still not sure what you mean in the paragraph above by "commitment
to a donation for the space" due to the confusion mentioned above the
multiple planned parties and KFA itself thing. I await a clarification
of that. In the mean time, I'm thrilled to see you keep making
progress and I want to help you make even more progress.
I'm really happy that we're having this discussion on this list, as
well. Let's keep our communications about this public and transparent.
> My fingers are tired now so I'm hanging up but looking forward to
> reading responses.
>
> Cheers, Paul.
Phew, mine too! :) Again, thanks for your input into all this! Looking
forward to hearing from you about getting others involved and learning
more about the DC area from you.
Paul
Sorry for the confusion. To clarify, there is a TNG party in April
that has committed to donating half of the door fee to KFA which I
estimate to be around $1000 but I won't know the exact amount until
after the event but we'll have the cash at that point in good time for
the proposed May date. Separately, I am proposing to throw a "Lucky"
party the night of the first event which will allow me to make a
donation if/when a date for a second event is planned regardless of
location.
Anyway, I hope that clears things up.
Cheers, Paul.
maymay
> Cool, I think we are on the same page.
Great. :)
> Sorry for the confusion. To clarify, there is a TNG party in April
> that has committed to donating half of the door fee to KFA which I
> estimate to be around $1000 but I won't know the exact amount until
> after the event but we'll have the cash at that point in good time for
> the proposed May date. Separately, I am proposing to throw a "Lucky"
> party the night of the first event which will allow me to make a
> donation if/when a date for a second event is planned regardless of
> location.
>
> Anyway, I hope that clears things up.
>
> Cheers, Paul.
Aha, that does clarify some of these puzzle pieces; thanks.
I'd be disappointed if we needed more than $1,000 to run a hugely
successful KinkForAll Washington DC, possibly even two. For KFANYC,
the only thing we spent any money on for the day of the event was the
venue space, which was a total of $480. We didn't even spend HALF of
the liquid funds we raised. (We spent some money on shirts, which
sadly didn't arrive in time.) We also originally budgeted for things
like catered food, but the participants ended up bringing more than
enough for 100+ people so we simply saved the cash for the things we
might need to spend money on next time.
So, with these estimates, how much would the Tabu venue that you were
talking about cost to rent for 1 full day, 10 AM through to 6 PM or so?
And again, if anyone has other DC-area venue suggestions, please
please please let us know about them now.
aelphaba
up to be easily accessible to everyone and anyone who wanted to come.
I spoke with college students, with professional presenters, with
recent grads, with unemployed people, etc. Not everyone, especially
those of us who live in an urban environment where not having a car is
almost never a problem, owns or has access to a personal vehicle.
If KinkForAll DC is not accessible by public transit, the "For All"
aspect will be very much hindered. Considering just how much of the DC
metro area is metro accessible (as someone who regularly bounces
between Alexandria, Silver Spring, Rockville, Arlington, etc. via
metro access, I can attest personally to that), it is ridiculous to
even consider hosting the event outside of the bounds of the actual
metro-dc area and still call the event Kink For All - DC.
One thing that might be worthwhile to consider is looking at the many
universities in our area. Often universities rent out space for much,
much less than a fancy hotel chain or convention center would. If we
could get a university organization (GLBTA, Multicultural Center, etc)
to co-sponsor the event it might even be free.
e.g. American University http://www.american.edu/ocl/housing/meetingspaces.cfm
might be worth looking into.
I'm willing to do some leg work on this and research metro accessible
event locations if you'd like.
Amy
maymay
> One of the things that I liked about KinkForAll NYC is that it was set
> up to be easily accessible to everyone and anyone who wanted to come.
> I spoke with college students, with professional presenters, with
> recent grads, with unemployed people, etc. Not everyone, especially
> those of us who live in an urban environment where not having a car is
> almost never a problem, owns or has access to a personal vehicle.
> If KinkForAll DC is not accessible by public transit, the "For All"
> aspect will be very much hindered. Considering just how much of the DC
> metro area is metro accessible (as someone who regularly bounces
> between Alexandria, Silver Spring, Rockville, Arlington, etc. via
> metro access, I can attest personally to that), it is ridiculous to
> even consider hosting the event outside of the bounds of the actual
> metro-dc area and still call the event Kink For All - DC.
This was my initial suspicion as well, and you've made the point I was
trying to make with regards to how easy it is for "walk ins" to find
out about and instantly, easily, accessibly participate in KinkForAll
much better than I did. So, thanks for that.
> One thing that might be worthwhile to consider is looking at the many
> universities in our area. Often universities rent out space for much,
> much less than a fancy hotel chain or convention center would. If we
> could get a university organization (GLBTA, Multicultural Center, etc)
> to co-sponsor the event it might even be free.
> e.g. American University http://www.american.edu/ocl/housing/meetingspaces.cfm
> might be worth looking into.
>
> I'm willing to do some leg work on this and research metro accessible
> event locations if you'd like.
>
> Amy
Yes! Absolutely! Please do! This is exactly the kind of thinking that
will take us places. Like, literally. ;) From the American University
page that you linked us to[0]:
> We offer a range of spaces […] two large theatre/auditoriums seating
> 200 and 388 all the way to classrooms of varying sizes with tablet
> desks and fixed or moveable tables, conference rooms with center
> tables, and a variety of meeting lounges in the residence halls.
That sounds to me just as close to perfect as I can imagine. Do you
know what the costs for such rooms might be? I couldn't find that info
from the web page.
I'm very unfamiliar with the DC area and I'm even less familiar with
academic institutions, so I'm extremely encouraged to hear you're
willing to put some legwork into this. Tell me, what can I do, if
anything, to help you do this legwork effectively? I can get you
promotional descriptions of KinkForAll, along with email templates
that I can source from the emails I sent when organizing for
KinkForAll New York City. Name what you need and I'll do my best to
support you. Otherwise, feel free to "just do it" and keep everyone
posted on your progress by emailing back to this list.
Cheers, and THANK YOU,
-maymay
Blog: http://maybemaimed.com
Community: http://KinkForAll.org
Volunteering: http://ConversioVirium.org/author/maymay
EXTERNAL REFERENCES:
Gordon Olmstead-Dean
maymay
Our group uses hotel function/banquet space in the DC Metro area on a fairly regular basis. Typically we are looking for 4-5 breakout rooms, so that may or may not be very useful,
but we've done a fairly extensive survey of spaces in the local area that suit our needs. I figured it couldn't hurt to pass the link along - this should be visible but not editable, feel free to gank a copy if it is of any use to anyone.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pI8GIFg-4PnZCXr1VKm3bZg
Gordon Olmstead-Dean
Thank you for passing this along! I'll try to digest this information over the weekend, and do however much research I can about these venues remotely. Would you mind if I emailed you offlist with some questions about each venue to learn more about them if I need to, Gordon? (If I don't need to, then I won't bother you, I promise. :)
Daniel (NovaHedonist)
area. It is much better if it's metro accessible, we will lose a lot
of people by having it at Taboo.
On Apr 3, 3:56 pm, aelphaba <aelph...@gmail.com> wrote:
> One of the things that I liked about KinkForAll NYC is that it was set
> up to be easily accessible to everyone and anyone who wanted to come.
> I spoke with college students, with professional presenters, with
> recent grads, with unemployed people, etc. Not everyone, especially
> those of us who live in an urban environment where not having a car is
> almost never a problem, owns or has access to a personal vehicle.
> If KinkForAll DC is not accessible by public transit, the "For All"
> aspect will be very much hindered. Considering just how much of the DC
> metro area is metro accessible (as someone who regularly bounces
> between Alexandria, Silver Spring, Rockville, Arlington, etc. via
> metro access, I can attest personally to that), it is ridiculous to
> even consider hosting the event outside of the bounds of the actual
> metro-dc area and still call the event Kink For All - DC.
>
> One thing that might be worthwhile to consider is looking at the many
> universities in our area. Often universities rent out space for much,
> much less than a fancy hotel chain or convention center would. If we
> could get a university organization (GLBTA, Multicultural Center, etc)
> to co-sponsor the event it might even be free.
Daniel (NovaHedonist)
I am not sure why a holiday weekend is a requirement?
Yes, there's an advantage to doing it on Sunday -- fewer conflicts,
but not necessary.
- Daniel
On Apr 2, 9:40 pm, Paul <pickp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Good point, I'd missed that. Looking at the calendar and all the other
> events it seems impossible not to clash with something. The problem is
> that needing a holiday Sunday makes alternatives difficult. A lot of
> people simply can't afford to go to a camp event so a free event could
> soften the blow to those left behind :-)
>
> Paul.
>
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 9:23 PM, Stephanie Olmstead-Dean
>
>
>
> <stephanie...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I'd be there, but it would conflict with Camp Crucible, which might pose a
> > problem for a number of supporters. I don't want to nix it, but I thought
> > it would be fair to mention that.
>
> > Cheers,
>
> > Stephanie
>
maymay
> I am not sure why a holiday weekend is a requirement?
It's not.
> Yes, there's an advantage to doing it on Sunday -- fewer conflicts,
> but not necessary.
>
> - Daniel
Dates follow venues; that is, once we have good and solid venue
options, the question becomes "on what dates are these venues
available to us"? That's a big part of figuring out when KinkForAll
Washington DC will happen. So if a Sunday is available, great, if not,
then we'll just do it on another day.
Daniel, do you have any insight into other possible venues? Note that
I'm doing some research into seeing if any of the options on the list
that Gordon sent us[0] could work, and Amy is doing some legwork in
contacting local universities[1]. It would be fantastic if you're
willing and able to assist us in either of these paths, or if you have
some other venue ideas that you want to branch off and find out about.
Cheers,
-maymay
Blog: http://maybemaimed.com
Community: http://KinkForAll.org
Volunteering: http://ConversioVirium.org/author/maymay
EXTERNAL REFERENCES:
[0] http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pI8GIFg-4PnZCXr1VKm3bZg
[1] http://groups.google.com/group/kinkforall/browse_thread/thread/a9162094b029ca6e#msg_293b768111403f39
aelphaba
Probably around $750 for three rooms, they will be emailing me more
information later today.
I started a "page" on this group to hold information that people
gather about possible DC locations.
It's viewable here. http://groups.google.com/group/kinkforall/web/dc-area-spaces
Does KFA have a google docs shared network or something? That would
probably be easier to work with for most folk.
Amy
aelphaba
You can see the pdf with their rate information here:
http://kinkforall.googlegroups.com/web/AU Rates 2009.pdf
We could either rent classrooms or residential hall space (floor
lounges, reading rooms, etc.) for $25/hr (~9 hrs w/clean up) or $300/
day per room.
On Apr 6, 12:43 pm, aelphaba <aelph...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I called American University - they look really promising (and cheap).
> Probably around $750 for three rooms, they will be emailing me more
> information later today.
>
> I started a "page" on this group to hold information that people
> gather about possible DC locations.
aelphaba
http://kinkforall.googlegroups.com/web/AU%20Rates%202009.pdf
> You can see the pdf with their rate information here:http://kinkforall.googlegroups.com/web/AURates 2009.pdf
Evan15342
one of the larger local events attended by kinky people throughout the
region is a bad idea. Doing so would be divisive and exclusionary,
going against the spirit of KinkForAll. Just my two cents.
Evan
> events it seems impossible not to clash with something. The problem is
> that needing a holiday Sunday makes alternatives difficult. A lot of
> people simply can't afford to go to a camp event so a free event could
> soften the blow to those left behind :-)
>
> Paul.
>
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 9:23 PM, Stephanie Olmstead-Dean
>
> > I'd be there, but it would conflict with Camp Crucible, which might pose a
> > problem for a number of supporters. I don't want to nix it, but I thought
> > it would be fair to mention that.
>
> > Cheers,
>
> > Stephanie
>
maymay
> I'm of the opinion that intentionally scheduling the event opposite
> one of the larger local events attended by kinky people throughout the
> region is a bad idea. Doing so would be divisive and exclusionary,
> going against the spirit of KinkForAll. Just my two cents.
>
> Evan
I must disagree, Evan.
Better to schedule and conflict than not schedule at all. Further,
kinky events are not the only ones to consider. So are GLBT and trans
rights events, along with many others. Schedule conflicts for too many
good things advocating sexual freedoms is a great problem to have.
Let's have more of that problem and less of the problem where there
aren't enough events that make spaces welcoming for many people, please.
Do or do not. There is no try.
maymay
> Re: American University
>
> You can see the pdf with their rate information here:
> http://kinkforall.googlegroups.com/web/AU Rates 2009.pdf
>
> We could either rent classrooms or residential hall space (floor
> lounges, reading rooms, etc.) for $25/hr (~9 hrs w/clean up) or $300/
> day per room.
>
> On Apr 6, 12:43 pm, aelphaba <aelph...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I called American University - they look really promising (and
>> cheap).
>> Probably around $750 for three rooms, they will be emailing me more
>> information later today.
>>
>> I started a "page" on this group to hold information that people
>> gather about possible DC locations.
>> It's viewable here.http://groups.google.com/group/kinkforall/web/dc-area-spaces
This is fantastic. Thank you for doing the legwork on this, Amy! I'd
say right now American University definitely sounds like the best
option DC has in terms of location, available space, and price.
Now that we have many options, let's narrow down the list. I'll edit
the DC Area Spaces page[0] to remove Tabu and Crucible, since they
already have some strikes against them in terms of non-neutral space
and non-metro friendly. Why did you write "Probably wouldn't consider
under their purview / within their interests to let us have the event
there." near the Whitman-Walker Clinic? I don't know anything about
this clinic, which is why I'm asking.
Finally, do you know what amenities American University offers in
meeting spaces, such as Internet connectivity, projectors, and so on?
Let's also see if we can find a date that works for the American
University venue. Their "Summer" timeframe extends through mid-August,
so we should have no trouble doing that at all.
>> Does KFA have a google docs shared network or something? That would
>> probably be easier to work with for most folk.
>>
>> Amy
>>
There's no central Google Docs network or anything, if that's what
you're asking…? You can just start a doc, though, as Paul did for the
DC financials spreadsheet[1]. :)
Cheers,
-maymay
Blog: http://maybemaimed.com
Community: http://KinkForAll.org
Volunteering: http://ConversioVirium.org/author/maymay
EXTERNAL REFERENCES:
[0] http://groups.google.com/group/kinkforall/web/dc-area-spaces
[1] http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pteUu99T2NougObhuDtM_KA
Evan15342
On Apr 8, 12:49 pm, maymay <bitetheappleb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I must disagree, Evan.
>
> Better to schedule and conflict than not schedule at all. Further,
> kinky events are not the only ones to consider. So are GLBT and trans
> rights events, along with many others. Schedule conflicts for too many
> good things advocating sexual freedoms is a great problem to have.
> Let's have more of that problem and less of the problem where there
> aren't enough events that make spaces welcoming for many people, please.
>
> Do or do not. There is no try.
>
> -maymay
> Blog:http://maybemaimed.com
> Community:http://KinkForAll.org
> Volunteering:http://ConversioVirium.org/author/maymay
always be some conflict. I think that in a case where a significant
conflict exists, the following questions have to be answered:
Why is this date preferable enough to exclude the attendees of the
event?
Why are other dates unacceptable?
Since only a date with a significant conflict has been suggested, with
no discussion of what other conflicts or issues make that date
preferable, there is a strong possibility that it will come across as
an intentional effort to exclude otherwise interested people.
Evan
maymay
> I totally agree that any date is better than no date and there will
> always be some conflict. I think that in a case where a significant
> conflict exists, the following questions have to be answered:
> Why is this date preferable enough to exclude the attendees of the
> event?
> Why are other dates unacceptable?
Agreed; these are definitely important questions to ask. :)
Let's also remain mindful about what "significant" means in the phrase
"significant conflict." Something like, say, Black Rose is a
"significant" conflict to some people in the BDSM community (and not
others), but is unlikely to be a significant conflict for people in
non-kinky communities. Again, as the majority of us (so far) are BDSM-
centric people, let's put *most* of our effort into learning about non-
BDSM conflicts, concerns, and channels of communication.
> Since only a date with a significant conflict has been suggested, with
> no discussion of what other conflicts or issues make that date
> preferable, there is a strong possibility that it will come across as
> an intentional effort to exclude otherwise interested people.
>
> Evan
Are you talking about May 24th at Tabu, as Paul suggested?
I'm of the opinion that Tabu isn't a good venue option (neither
neutral ground nor DC metro-friendly) nor is May 24th necessarily the
best date. So, I've been looking at Amy's suggestions for venues and
trying to come up with an alternative option. Amy said American
University seems to be a good one, and we don't yet know precisely
what dates they have available. But now's a good time to talk about
possibilities.
Evan, what dates would you like Amy to ask American University about
for KinkForAll Washington DC?
Cheers,