Reasons I think KFA shouldn't have a social space
Tyler
- KFA had limited space - more space, if available, should be used for more presentations. There were so many more presentations that might have happened had there been space in the schedule or in a room. I would feel sad to squander a space (when such a thing is not an unlimited resource) on something that doesn't get people to give back on a larger community level but rather encourages people to miss out on presentations and focus on individual discussions that are less likely to spread to others.
- Theoretically if weather is not inclement participants who really DO need a break can take it "outside" and go for a stroll, or whatever they need. This, however, would be a conscious choice to leave the event (knowing they could come back later or not as they wish) and would limit the number of people missing out on more presentations just because they needed a break or getting caught in social conversations that take away from involvement in the event.
- Not having a rest space forces people to choose a presentation to go to even if none of the ones in a given time slot seem to be of interest. There is a chance that something said could inspire an idea that was not expected or that connections could be made across interests and boundaries that might not have been breached if it is easy for people to step out and spend the time with people they already know, discussing ideas they are already familiar with. The chances for good social chemical reactions are higher if all interactions have to take place inside a dynamic space and are not allowed to be relaxed.
- For many participants, KFA is an unfamilar format. Once learned, however, the space is more manageable, less chaotic and less daunting. Without the rush of zooming from one presentation to the next, brimming with one idea after another, I would fear that skeptics might not experience the point of KFA as intended and would then come away from the experience negatively because they spent it in a room have one drawn-out conversation rather than the million energized beginnings we would hope they would be inspired with by such diverse participants and presentations. People who are used to the format will get even more out of it and one way to do that is to not allow assumptions about what conferences are like rule the space - break the assumptions and you accomplish exactly what you set out to with an unconference.
- Most importantly though, for KFA to spread ideas like viruses, the ideas have to make it outside of the day of the event. By not allowing people the time to draw out their great ideas on the premises it forces people to exchange contact information, plan get-togethers and keep the conversations going after the event is over. It gives a taste but not a satisfying end. It's up to the participants to develop their satisfying ends and encourages ACTIONS and not just grand ideas during the day of the event. As great as a deep conversation can be, it is easily forgotten outside of the context in which it started. A great idea unresolved nags on the brain until it is allowed to bloom - the result of which is longer conversations that involve more people and leave a lasting imprint over days, weeks or even months.
maymay
I noticed some discussion after KFANYC calling for a social space. At first, this seemed to make sense in the way that other events have a break room, but the more I thought about it the more I realized that KFA isn't like other events and perhaps should strive to draw even stronger distinctions between the unconference and the conference. Don't get me wrong - it was a strenuous day and it was good to be able to continue chats and fan the flames of the good idea sparks that started during presentations, however, I think it is in the community's best interest to discourage that kind of fanning at the event itself:
5. As many presentations at a time as facilities allow for.
Gordon Olmstead-Dean
However it seems to me that a large part of the concept of Kinkforall...and I may be wrong on this...is to be a very open accessible community that promotes social interchange among all groups and all attendees without arbitrary lines.
maymay
> I think Tyler makes some excellent points if the idea is to force
> people to go to presentations no matter what.
I wouldn't say the idea is to "force" anything. What comes out of the
event is whatever people put into it, nothing more and nothing less.
Nobody *has* to go to *any* presentations if they don't want to. :)
That does strike me as silly, though.
> However it seems to me that a large part of the concept of
> Kinkforall...and I may be wrong on this...is to be a very open
> accessible community that promotes social interchange among all
> groups and all attendees without arbitrary lines.
>
> If the idea is in any way or shape to promote a healthy interchange
> and social exchanges, then community space becomes vital. Otherwise
> people come, attend presentations, and don't really have any way to
> get to know other participants, step across lines and learn about
> people.
Hmm…this is not the experience I saw people having at KinkForAll New
York City. I saw countless people exchange contact information[0], and
talk to people they hadn't known before. And there was no dedicated
social room there. Since the entire event is itself a gigantic melting
pot designed to facilitate exactly that goal, and it did this very
successfully, I'm becoming ever more convinced that a dedicated social
space is actually a distant second priority and should be considered
only after other priorities are taken care of.
People certainly can come and attend presentations and not really get
to know one another, but that's not something having a dedicated
social room has the ability to change. That's a very different, much
more individual, issue.
> From my point of view much of my interest in this is to be in an
> environment not only to learn from presentations but to meet a wide
> variety of fellow kinksters without regard to any other existing
> affliations. I think it would be sad for it to be more like
> attending a movie, where I show up with my date, see some cool
> stuff, and leave never having said more than "thanks" or "excuse me"
> to the other folks around.
Again, you will get out of KinkForAll what you put into it. If you
show up with a date just to see some cool stuff and leave without
having started a conversation with someone, then that's going to be
what your experience is like REGARDLESS of whether a social room
exists or not. Moreover, since KFANYC didn't have a dedicated social
room and there were still countless conversations happening, I'm not
convinced a social space is a prerequisite.
I *do* think that in a large, easy-to-reserve venue (i.e., cheap or
easy for unorganizers to obtain plenty of physical space at), having
small physical room where nothing else is happening could be useful.
My concern is that a large room capable of accommodating most
participants at KinkForAll will actually backfire and, lick a black
hole, make more people insular instead of social, because it's far
easier to hide in a corner when you're further away from the high-
energy environment of the presentation rooms. So, again, I think the
priorities for unorganizers trying to find venue space should be first
and foremost on making the most of their venue for presentation rooms,
and only secondarily—if there is ample (by which I mean "way more than
enough") physical space to do so—should they consider providing a
small room, too.
What makes KinkForAll a more "social" space in the way I think you're
wanting to see happen, Gordon, is the first tenet of the event[0]:
> attendees must give a talk or presentation, or help with one. This
> is called sharing and we like it.
In other words, there are many spaces available for people to spend
time with one another: Coffee shops, diners, parks, clubs, and other
public, semi-public or private spaces are all places where people can
"just socialize." KinkForAll fills a different need, which is bringing
people together to *begin* conversing about something so that they
will *want* to go to other places such as cafés and clubs with one
another *after* the event to keep talking.
> But that's just "my thoughts" and others may feel differently with
> perfectly good reasons...still, if social interaction is important
> to even a moderate minority of attendees, then setting some space
> aside for it seems only reasonable.
So in summary one last time (and I apologize if I sound like I'm
beating a dead horse in this email), I don't think a "dedicated social
room" is required for people to effectively obtain "social
interaction" because that happens by virtue of participating in the
event anyway. I still think a dedicated social room could be very
useful, but after reading over Tyler's good points a number of times,
I'm now pretty convinced that a social room unorganizers need to rent
or otherwise spend efforts securing the availability of should never
take up physical space that could be better used for running
presentations, since that's the resource which is at a premium.
Cheers,
-maymay
Blog: http://maybemaimed.com
Community: http://KinkForAll.org
Volunteering: http://ConversioVirium.org/author/maymay
EXTERNAL REFERENCES:
[0] http://identi.ca/notice/2673625
OR
http://twitter.com/maymaym/statuses/1297216922
[1] http://kinkforall.pbwiki.com/KinkForAll
Gordon Olmstead-Dean
exists or not. Moreover, since KFANYC didn't have a dedicated social
room and there were still countless conversations happening, I'm not
convinced a social space is a prerequisite.
I *do* think that in a large, easy-to-reserve venue (i.e., cheap or
easy for unorganizers to obtain plenty of physical space at), having
small physical room where nothing else is happening could be useful.
My concern is that a large room capable of accommodating most
participants at KinkForAll will actually backfire and, lick a black
hole, make more people insular instead of social, because it's far
easier to hide in a corner when you're further away from the high-
energy environment of the presentation rooms. So, again, I think the
priorities for unorganizers trying to find venue space should be first
and foremost on making the most of their venue for presentation rooms,
and only secondarily—if there is ample (by which I mean "way more than
enough") physical space to do so—should they consider providing a
small room, too.
maymay
> exists or not. Moreover, since KFANYC didn't have a dedicated social
> room and there were still countless conversations happening, I'm not
> convinced a social space is a prerequisite.
>
> I *do* think that in a large, easy-to-reserve venue (i.e., cheap or
> easy for unorganizers to obtain plenty of physical space at), having
> small physical room where nothing else is happening could be useful.
> My concern is that a large room capable of accommodating most
> participants at KinkForAll will actually backfire and, lick a black
> hole, make more people insular instead of social, because it's far
> easier to hide in a corner when you're further away from the high-
> energy environment of the presentation rooms. So, again, I think the
> priorities for unorganizers trying to find venue space should be first
> and foremost on making the most of their venue for presentation rooms,
> and only secondarily—if there is ample (by which I mean "way more than
> enough") physical space to do so—should they consider providing a
> small room, too.
>
> Well, I do think you make some good points there. And perhaps I
> state myself too strongly. I think that a social space is good, but
> your priorities seem very reasonable, and I certainly don't disagree
> with them. I apologize if I seem to speak too strongly.
Oh, not at all, Gordon! I'm glad you've responded and shared your
thoughts! :) I like to say that "it's better to ask forgiveness than
permission." I probably should have thanked you for your thoughts in
my last email, too, but it's been a hectic day. Please consider that
my mistake and accept my apologies for my tunnel vision!
> I run gaming/theatrical events where we have a large group of
> people, many of whom are not by nature outgoing. I've seen social
> areas work wonders in that regard, and I tend to support that as an
> option for people who enjoy it, but of course you're right and there
> are other ways in which people meet and exchange energy.
I think it's clear that there are people who would benefit from having
social rooms at KinkForAll events, and in an ideal world I'd like to
make this possible for them. However, there are practical as well as
methodology concerns that they raise, and so the question becomes
worthy of discussion! Also, I'd love to be at a number of different
KinkForAll events where regional differences such as availability of
space (which, in NYC, is extremely hard to come by) will make a
difference in the details in how the local event is run. I'm simply
also very invested in making sure that new or less experienced
unorganizers know what to prioritize in order to make sure the event
they help run makes the most lasting value that it can possibly create.
>
This thread is now really chock full of ideas and concerns and well-
made points, and so I'm going to start moving it into the
unorganizer's guide on the wiki[0] in the coming days. Any and all
help in doing so would be appreciated!
-maymay
Blog: http://maybemaimed.com
Community: http://KinkForAll.org
Volunteering: http://ConversioVirium.org/author/maymay
EXTERNAL REFERENCES:
Princess Rowan
just kind of want to throw some thoughts out on paper.
I'm interested in KFA because I come from San Francisco, and I'm now
living in PA and the communities here are very different (and a lot more
invisible). I'm looking to (finally) step out of the little zone I seem
to have fallen into like a black hole and make some connections.
As to KFA DC and social space... I'm going to toss out two totally
radical ideas about the nature of social space, and what we can do to
facilitate that need while still preserving the "presenting" nature of
KFA.
1) Given KFA's "everyone present, no one tours" ethos, the idea of having
a presentation or two in every slot that's more "discussion" based than
"someone stands up at the front with a power-point" would definitely help
with people's circulating and getting to know people, as well as creating
opportunities for ideas to be sparked off which breed further in depth
conversation after the event/outside of the KFA space. I, personally, am
considering presenting a KFA session on "the closet" and what it means to
different gender and sexual identities, and I think that's a session that
would benefit far more from being a discussion than just me having my
index cars, for example.
2) Maymay expressed that he thought KFA NYC would have benefitted from an
afterparty of some sort. The LARP group I'm in does something after their
games, where they all go to a diner and hang out and chat and be social.
Even if KFA's afterparty was just something like the (un)organizers
finding a bar/restaurant/diner that would accomodate the group, and
putting it up on the board before the last round of presentations, I think
it's a viable way to carry the KFA energy out of the (un)conference and
into the world, providing an opportunity to strengthen connections between
participants and finish some of those deeper conversations. Okay, so it
wouldn't be a play party, but if we're really trying to include non
BDSMers like the genderqueer community, asexualists, LGBT people, etc...
Maybe a "play party" isn't the event we want to have right after KFA.
Plus, there's always moving those who want to to Crucible or something
similar after the event.
So there's my two thoughts.
- Rowan
Tyler
were discussions or otherwise participatory and those that were more
presentations of ideas. It would be great to encourage that as an
ideal for KFA presentations. Even some that were more "lecture" type
had 5 minutes dedicated at the end for discussion.
Furthermore, in some of the smaller rooms, it was impossible to avoid
connecting with other people as everyone had to physically squeeze in
if they wanted to see/be a part of the presentation.
The nature of KFA is different from other types of events -
presentations are largely participatory and electric. They are also
incredibly short. It's not the same as sitting in a lecture or a demo
for an hour and not being able to talk to anyone. At KFA NYC people
were talking every chance they could, exchanging information, notes,
blog posts, tweets, and the energy that the event promotes.
Let's not forget that there *is* the possibility of a dedicated 1 hour
lunch break across all rooms in which to eat, refresh oneself and
connect with the people around you. At KFA NYC I thought that that
time period (long compared to any of the presentations) helped foster
a camaraderie between attendees, even those who had never met before
the day. Helping out for a common goal and finding out that others
enjoy similar ideas is a natural way for people to become closer, even
those who are less comfortable in social situations. This event is
very different from one where people all sit silently in a room and
"watch" and then quietly leave alone or with friends they came with.
Princess Rowan
It would be relatively trivial to set up a laconica server (the thing that
runs identi.ca) to be used for KFA *as* a social space. We could move the
social space virtual, and it would be relatively accessible to everyone
since I believe you can text laconica through federation with identi.ca.
Something like that, or a dedicated message/white board on the wiki that
we could use through the (un)conference is another unconventional way of
looking at the social space issue/dynamic.
-R
maymay
> Another quick thought I had.
>
> It would be relatively trivial to set up a laconica server (the
> thing that
> runs identi.ca) to be used for KFA *as* a social space. We could
> move the
> social space virtual, and it would be relatively accessible to
> everyone
> since I believe you can text laconica through federation with
> identi.ca.
> Something like that, or a dedicated message/white board on the wiki
> that
> we could use through the (un)conference is another unconventional
> way of
> looking at the social space issue/dynamic.
>
> -R
Absolutely: we *did* make heavy use of online backchannels for
KFANYC[0], and I do hope future events do the same[1]. I think we
should be mindful that "social space" needs to *include* people who
are NOT PHYSICALLY PRESENT.
Cheers,
-maymay
Blog: http://maybemaimed.com
Community: http://KinkForAll.org
Volunteering: http://ConversioVirium.org/author/maymay
EXTERNAL REFERENCES:
[0] http://kinkforall.pbwiki.com/KinkForAllNewYorkCityLive
[1] http://kinkforall.pbwiki.com/OrganizeALocalKinkForAll#SettingUpABackchannel
maymay
> I'm de-lurking here, on this thread, but I'm not quoting anyone
> because I
> just kind of want to throw some thoughts out on paper.
Yay for de-lurking! :) Hi and welcome and it's nice to make your
acquaintance.
> I'm interested in KFA because I come from San Francisco, and I'm now
> living in PA and the communities here are very different (and a lot
> more
> invisible). I'm looking to (finally) step out of the little zone I
> seem
> to have fallen into like a black hole and make some connections.
I wish you could have made it to KFANYC since both of your ideas were
actually executed at the NYC event. They are good ideas.
> As to KFA DC and social space... I'm going to toss out two totally
> radical ideas about the nature of social space, and what we can do to
> facilitate that need while still preserving the "presenting" nature of
> KFA.
>
> 1) Given KFA's "everyone present, no one tours" ethos, the idea of
> having
> a presentation or two in every slot that's more "discussion" based
> than
> "someone stands up at the front with a power-point" would definitely
> help
> with people's circulating and getting to know people, as well as
> creating
> opportunities for ideas to be sparked off which breed further in depth
> conversation after the event/outside of the KFA space. I,
> personally, am
> considering presenting a KFA session on "the closet" and what it
> means to
> different gender and sexual identities, and I think that's a session
> that
> would benefit far more from being a discussion than just me having my
> index cars, for example.
Basically, yes. You can structure your 20-minute presentation any way
you want, but many people found it beneficial to spend 5 to 10 minutes
in a Q&A and "discussion" format.
In fact, the very first presentation at KFANYC in one of the rooms we
had was Emily Rutherfords "The Politicization of the Closet", and
Emily had exactly this format: 15 minutes or so of talking, 5 minutes
of Q&A from the listeners.
You can listen to Emily's entire presentation online as well as the
Q&A session online at
http://www.princeton.edu/~erutherf/emilyKFANYC.mp3
It's linked to from the archive of the Schedule grid at
http://kinkforall.pbwiki.com/KinkForAllNewYorkCitySchedule
As an aside, I'm still waiting on a number of presenters who haven't
yet gotten their presentations online, but more should be coming
online soon. This is another really valuable and important thing for
KinkForAll events to keep encouraging people to do: record and publish
presentations online for free. :)
> 2) Maymay expressed that he thought KFA NYC would have benefitted
> from an
> afterparty of some sort. The LARP group I'm in does something after
> their
> games, where they all go to a diner and hang out and chat and be
> social.
> Even if KFA's afterparty was just something like the (un)organizers
> finding a bar/restaurant/diner that would accomodate the group, and
> putting it up on the board before the last round of presentations, I
> think
> it's a viable way to carry the KFA energy out of the (un)conference
> and
> into the world, providing an opportunity to strengthen connections
> between
> participants and finish some of those deeper conversations. Okay,
> so it
> wouldn't be a play party, but if we're really trying to include non
> BDSMers like the genderqueer community, asexualists, LGBT people,
> etc...
> Maybe a "play party" isn't the event we want to have right after KFA.
After KFANYC, about I went to an Asian restaurant with 20 or so of the
participants of the day. The reason we *didn't* announce this as part
of the event itself is because there isn't a single restaurant that
can accommodate 100+ people suddenly showing up at their door. Also,
the group needs to split afterwards anyway, and I'd much rather have
that occur organically than otherwise.
Furthermore, KinkForAll events themselves—if executed well—are
extremely grueling in terms of spending a lot of energy because they
are so fast-paced. I think that *immediately* after the event is not
necessarily the best time to focus on this kind of sociability.
Instead, let people go home and then get online and start blogging at
one another, and keeping up the social conversations *days and weeks
and months* after the event. That'd be much, much better in terms of
value creation, which goes back to one of Tyler's original five points
in this thread[0].
Also, to be clear, I think you're spot-on correct when you say that
play parties are not the event you want to have right after a
KinkForAll. When I said afterparty, I specifically didn't intend a
*play*party. In general, I hope to see more events like Pleasure
Salon[1] (which is more like a non-sexuality community bar & lounge
event, also with no play) spring up around KinkForAll, and less BDSM
or other niche-specific play parties, because—and I keep saying I'm
going to blog about this; one day soon I will—play parties are
actually very bad things for supporting inter-community spaces.
> Plus, there's always moving those who want to to Crucible or something
> similar after the event.
>
> So there's my two thoughts.
>
> - Rowan
Yeah! Exactly. :) If people *want* to go play, then great! Go play!
But there's a huge huge huge huge difference between "organizing a
playparty for KinkForAll participants" and a bunch of people who want
to go play together going to play together. We're NOT all interested
in play, and furthermore, those of us who are aren't even all
interested in the same kind of play. Play parties can thus be divisive
far, far more easily than they can be uniting, and we need to be
careful of that with regards to talking about play parties even
tangentially related to KinkForAll.
Cheers,
-maymay
Blog: http://maybemaimed.com
Community: http://KinkForAll.org
Volunteering: http://ConversioVirium.org/author/maymay
EXTERNAL REFERENCES:
[0] http://groups.google.com/group/kinkforall/browse_thread/thread/fc80d1f4305a430d
[1] http://pleasuresalon.com/
maymay
> Let's not forget that there *is* the possibility of a dedicated 1 hour
> lunch break across all rooms in which to eat, refresh oneself and
> connect with the people around you.
Just to clarify, there's not a *possibility* of a dedicated 1 hour
lunch break, there *is* a dedicated 1 hour lunch break. :)
> At KFA NYC I thought that that
> time period (long compared to any of the presentations) helped foster
> a camaraderie between attendees, even those who had never met before
> the day. Helping out for a common goal and finding out that others
> enjoy similar ideas is a natural way for people to become closer, even
> those who are less comfortable in social situations. This event is
> very different from one where people all sit silently in a room and
> "watch" and then quietly leave alone or with friends they came with.
Well said. When you participate, you are already being social—that's
what participation is all about, and that's why getting people
participating needs to remain the focus of event unorganizers'
priorities.
Cheers,
Cindy Vickery
extremely grueling in terms of spending a lot of energy because they
Princess Rowan
On Fri, April 3, 2009 12:15 pm, maymay wrote:
>
> On Apr 3, 2009, at 9:29 AM, Princess Rowan wrote:
>
>> I'm de-lurking here, on this thread, but I'm not quoting anyone
>> because I
>> just kind of want to throw some thoughts out on paper.
>
> Yay for de-lurking! :) Hi and welcome and it's nice to make your
> acquaintance.
>
Yours too! I've actually been a reader of your blog for a while, and I
love that looking around the online KFA spaces have been bringing me into
contact with some other great blogs.
Alright, enough aside... ;)
> As an aside, I'm still waiting on a number of presenters who haven't
> yet gotten their presentations online, but more should be coming
> online soon. This is another really valuable and important thing for
> KinkForAll events to keep encouraging people to do: record and publish
> presentations online for free. :)
I wonder if it's too meta to have a session on bringing the experience of
KFA out of KFA and onto the 'net. Oh, the ideas I'm having for
presentations now...
That being said, I have a whole other idea which I am now interested in
writing up as a side thread, a sort of virtual KFA...
> After KFANYC, about I went to an Asian restaurant with 20 or so of the
> participants of the day. The reason we *didn't* announce this as part
> of the event itself is because there isn't a single restaurant that
> can accommodate 100+ people suddenly showing up at their door. Also,
> the group needs to split afterwards anyway, and I'd much rather have
> that occur organically than otherwise.
>
That's definitely a thought I hadn't considered. Something I'd be
interested in facilitating is still a way of broadcasting where you're
(the generic you, not you in specific Maymay ;) ) are headed after KFA so
that if one were interested in your presentation and wanted to talk to you
more about it...or if you were interested in someone else's, you could
find them and make a deeper connection.
Possibly something to be solved by the use of backchannels and hashtags
(although I think that having a physical backchannel for this sort of
thing like a whiteboard might also help...)
> Furthermore, KinkForAll events themselves—if executed well—are
> extremely grueling in terms of spending a lot of energy because they
> are so fast-paced. I think that *immediately* after the event is not
> necessarily the best time to focus on this kind of sociability.
> Instead, let people go home and then get online and start blogging at
> one another, and keeping up the social conversations *days and weeks
> and months* after the event. That'd be much, much better in terms of
> value creation, which goes back to one of Tyler's original five points
> in this thread[0].
>
Have we got a blog network, or a place on the wiki to link blogs? I think
that if we're talking value-added, a resource list like that would be
MIGHTY helpful. I am *definitely* interested in reading about the
experiences with KFANYC, and would be interested in making the sort of
connections that a blog resource list could provide.
> Also, to be clear, I think you're spot-on correct when you say that
> play parties are not the event you want to have right after a
> KinkForAll. When I said afterparty, I specifically didn't intend a
> *play*party. In general, I hope to see more events like Pleasure
> Salon[1] (which is more like a non-sexuality community bar & lounge
> event, also with no play) spring up around KinkForAll, and less BDSM
> or other niche-specific play parties, because—and I keep saying I'm
> going to blog about this; one day soon I will—play parties are
> actually very bad things for supporting inter-community spaces.
>
I am sure I expose my bias here when I say that I've seen very few *truly*
pansexual parties that were devoted to "play", so I definitely agree on
the divisivness issue. (I may have misspelled that. I don't have Firefox
at work, and thus have no spell check. :( )
> Yeah! Exactly. :) If people *want* to go play, then great! Go play!
> But there's a huge huge huge huge difference between "organizing a
> playparty for KinkForAll participants" and a bunch of people who want
> to go play together going to play together. We're NOT all interested
> in play, and furthermore, those of us who are aren't even all
> interested in the same kind of play. Play parties can thus be divisive
> far, far more easily than they can be uniting, and we need to be
> careful of that with regards to talking about play parties even
> tangentially related to KinkForAll.
>
Again, probably revealing some bias here, but as someone who has
participated in the Burning Man community in the past, I'd almost like to
see party type events structred with an eye towards that sort of ethos.
They tend to come together in more of a spirit of enjoying communal space
and sharing with one another, facilitating having a good time through
experience sharing as opposed to highly structured events. It's about
being social together in the space provided, as opposed to a specific
"party" idea.
That probably made no sense, but I can try to explain it better if people
have questions.
- Rowan
Tyler
experience of
KFA out of KFA and onto the 'net. Oh, the ideas I'm having for
writing up as a side thread, a sort of virtual KFA...
>>
purpose of the event is also to educate the participants as to how to
throw such an event.
Also a virtual KFA is a great idea too. I'd love to see more
constructive collaborative ideas being formed online (not that this
isn't already happening).
-Tyler
maymay
> KFA out of KFA and onto the 'net. Oh, the ideas I'm having for
> presentations now...
be a great presentation topic—you should totally do it. Even better,
you should totally do it *and* blog about it before you do it, and
then blog about it after you do it…and so on. :)
> That being said, I have a whole other idea which I am now interested in
> writing up as a side thread, a sort of virtual KFA...
together a media collection from all the recordings of audio and video
that we manage to capture at the events and putting out a compilation
of everything. This is a great idea and a wonderful project, and it's
just one of the many great things that can come out of KinkForAll's
efforts.
> Something I'd be
> interested in facilitating is still a way of broadcasting where you're
> (the generic you, not you in specific Maymay ;) ) are headed after KFA so
> that if one were interested in your presentation and wanted to talk to you
> more about it...or if you were interested in someone else's, you could
> find them and make a deeper connection.
>
> Possibly something to be solved by the use of backchannels and hashtags
> (although I think that having a physical backchannel for this sort of
> thing like a whiteboard might also help...)
blogging about things. We have the technology, there's no reason why
we shouldn't make use of it. One of my very side-agendas with KFA is
to show that our communities can do *so much* with *so little*. The
way we do that is by working *smarter*, not harder.
> Have we got a blog network, or a place on the wiki to link blogs?
I say that, I mean to say that we have already got all the
infrastructure we need already. You can go to a number of aggregator
sites online like Technorati to get a list of every blog post that
they crawl that has the "kinkforall" tag on it.
http://technorati.com/tag/kinkforall
To see blog posts tagged with "KFANYC" (the tag for the KinkForAll New
York City event),
http://technorati.com/tag/kfanyc
To see videos from KFANYC, do the same thing:
http://vimeo.com/tag:kfanyc
And for photos, Flickr pools are already set up:
http://flickr.com/groups/kinkforall
All of these services have import/export tools and APIs. Paul's video
library site idea could be much more successfully implemented if
people autonomously create, upload, and tag their own videos
"kinkforall" and Paul simply pulls the videos in from Vimeo's API.
Disclaimer: I'm a professional web developer, so I have a bias towards
doing things in a low-tech yet highly-automated way. I am very
frustrated by the lack of "work smarter, not harder" ethos in most
community, not-for-profit space and it's very important to me that
KinkForAll manages to remain an unconference. Because if it turns into
something else, then we're playing a zero-sum game when we don't need
to be. Why not have an unconference *AND* an educational video library
about sexuality topics *AND* a virtual blog network *AND* whatever
else we want. Each of these projects can be full, whole, autonomous
projects that just happen to work together.
Think Web 2.0 Mash Up, sexuality community style. ;)
> I think
> that if we're talking value-added, a resource list like that would be
> MIGHTY helpful.
just described, I am *against* the idea of creating a single,
authoritative centralized repository for things like this, but I am
*for* the value creation through collaboration that we can get by
using existing things. A lot of my ideas about this can be summarized
in an amazing 20-minute video from Clay Shirky called "Institution
versus collaboration" and is available for viewing for free here:
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/clay_shirky_on_institutions_versus_collaboration.html
> I am *definitely* interested in reading about the
> experiences with KFANYC, and would be interested in making the sort of
> connections that a blog resource list could provide.
"KinkForAll" tags, linked above.
To add your post to this list or any other automatically generated
list, simply add the "KFANYC" or "KinkForAll" tags (or both of them)
to your blog post. Boom, instant automatically updating, distributed,
blog network and resource list. Isn't the Internet awesome?
> I am sure I expose my bias here when I say that I've seen very few *truly*
> pansexual parties that were devoted to "play", so I definitely agree on
> the divisivness issue. (I may have misspelled that. I don't have Firefox
> at work, and thus have no spell check. :( )
advertise themselves as pansexual now.
Sara Eileen
I'm sorry to jump all the way back to the beginning of this thread,
since it has gone in some really awesome directions since Tyler began
the discussion. But I haven't been online in a little while and able
to interact well, so hopefully you'll all forgive me.
Addressing the possible need of a social space at Kink For All:
On Mar 29, 2009, at 3:27 PM, Tyler wrote:
> At first, this seemed to make sense in the way that other events
> have a break room, but the more I thought about it the more I
> realized that KFA isn't like other events and perhaps should strive
> to draw even stronger distinctions between the unconference and the
> conference. Don't get me wrong - it was a strenuous day and it was
> good to be able to continue chats and fan the flames of the good
> idea sparks that started during presentations, however, I think it
> is in the community's best interest to discourage that kind of
> fanning at the event itself:
>
> KFA had limited space - more space, if available, should be used
> for more presentations. There were so many more presentations that
> might have happened had there been space in the schedule or in a
> room. I would feel sad to squander a space (when such a thing is
> not an unlimited resource) on something that doesn't get people to
> give back on a larger community level but rather encourages people
> to miss out on presentations and focus on individual discussions
> that are less likely to spread to others.
was that the people in the event expanded to fill as much space as
they could. I think that this will continue to be the case; groups of
people will split off and find their own ways to converse. However,
we were working with a serious limitation that prevented spontaneous
spaces from occurring: noise constraints.
I don't know if anyone remembers me going around shushing people in
the hallways, but I spent a lot of my time doing just that. The
Center had other events running, and KFANYC was dedicated to being
actively respectful to them. If we had been able to let people
converse openly in the hallways, I suspect the suggestion of social
space would not have come up.
My point is that this is less of an overall call and more of an event-
to-event call. If another KFA happens in the Center, I think a
dedicated social space (or alternately, taking an entire floor or
scheduling to avoid noise constraints) is necessary. But maybe the
next KFANYC will be in a totally different space - one that allows
people to fluidly converse wherever they feel the need.
I did see people coming and going from the event, taking walks,
having breaks. I think you're very right, Tyler, that better weather
will encourage this. I don't think a KFA social space would
necessarily be a *restful* space. In fact, I would encourage everyone
not to think of it that way. Was the KFANYC lunchtime restful? Not
for me, it wasn't. It was full of conversations and excitement and
energy. A social space would also take on this dynamic - people would
go there to continue conversations, not to nap.
I don't think that a social space would have gone amiss at KFANYC,
nor would it have slowed the day down. But if we didn't have to be
quiet in the hallways? If it was nice outside? It wouldn't have
become something people thought was as necessary.
As with all things Kink For All, it is an awesome thing to discuss,
but not necessarily a decision to be made. I would encourage future
unorganizers to keep social space in mind, but not commit to it as a
necessary part of running their own event.
Cheers!
Sara Eileen
(un)Organizer
Kink For All New York City I
Princess Rowan
On Fri, April 3, 2009 1:08 pm, maymay wrote:
>
> On Apr 3, 12:36 pm, "Princess Rowan" <aberrantvir...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I wonder if it's too meta to have a session on bringing the experience
>> of
>> KFA out of KFA and onto the 'net. Oh, the ideas I'm having for
>> presentations now...
>
> I don't think there's such a thing as "too meta." I think that would
> be a great presentation topic—you should totally do it. Even better,
> you should totally do it *and* blog about it before you do it, and
> then blog about it after you do it…and so on. :)
>
I believe in the principle of the do-acracy ("If you want to see something
done, do it!") so I will start thinking about what would need to go into
this presentation...incorporating a LOT of the stuff you wrote below,
Maymay.
I am new-ish to the ways of things like Technorati, and blog tools, having
not yet quite motivated myself to get off LJ (I just bought my first
domain name, quite recently) so it's something I could definitely use
co-facilitators for, if anyone is interested in collaborating on this!
>> That being said, I have a whole other idea which I am now interested in
>> writing up as a side thread, a sort of virtual KFA...
>
> British Lucky Paul actually had a fantastic idea about bringing
> together a media collection from all the recordings of audio and video
> that we manage to capture at the events and putting out a compilation
> of everything. This is a great idea and a wonderful project, and it's
> just one of the many great things that can come out of KinkForAll's
> efforts.
>
I was actually thinking something a little different, but I'll get on
another thread with that, since I'm back from lunch now... :)
- Rowan
maymay
> I would encourage future
> unorganizers to keep social space in mind, but not commit to it as a
> necessary part of running their own event.
I'm seconding exactly this, for the record.
I'd also go one step further, saying that it's much more important to
focus primarily on presentation space, and only secondarily on social
rooms.
Sara, can you help me write up the salient points in this thread with
this conclusion on the unorganizer's guide[0] on the wiki so it
doesn't get lost in the archives now that you have Internet access
more frequently again?
Thanks,
-maymay
Blog: http://maybemaimed.com
Community: http://KinkForAll.org
Volunteering: http://ConversioVirium.org/author/maymay
P.S. And I suppose I should also mention, in case it isn't clear to
everyone on this list, I was also part of the crew that unorganized
KinkForAll New York City.
Lolita Wolf
But looking at it afterwards, I spent a lot of time with my head in my laptop. I would prefer to have used that time at the event differently. If I go to another KFA, I think I would still want to take photos but would wait until afterwards to load them up to the web.
This was a learning experience for me and I am happy about it anyway.
Lolita
Lolita, speaking only for Lolita
http://www.leatheryenta.com