My Story
Jack In A Box
This is my story. Warning it's a long post. Medical stats are listed at the
end of the post for those who care. I'm posting this to say thanks to this
group, and the Internet in general. I hope that it might serve as a warning
and as an inspiration for the individuals who read it and who might benefit
from my experiences.
Disclaimer: I am not a medical professional, and do not presume to give
medical advice. This is just my personal experience...
I'm a 45 year old male 178 cm (5'10'') tall, never been obese but never
been sporty, self diagnosed IFG/IGT/T2. My mother was overweight and
diabetic, and I've seen the entire panoply: bad circulation, neuropathy,
strokes, macular degeneration, amputation, kidney failure, have I left
something out..? My father was overweight and had a couple of heart attacks,
before he died of a massive coronary in the hospital... One sister has
celiac and lupus, and the other sister (judging by her looks and life style)
is well on her way to follow in my mother's footsteps, even though she
claims to be in good health.
I've been tired since I was 20, tried a couple of doctors but nothing was
wrong. I've been coughing for over 15 years, but the cigarettes were to
blame. I started going for regular blood tests 3 years ago, and have been
basically told not to worry, stop smoking, start exercising, and eat a
"better" low fat diet.
I've been progressively following the advice, battling worsening blood
values, rising cholesterol, FBG, and liver values... In October 2004, I was
diagnosed with a fatty liver and pancreas (ultrasound). This scared me and I
started doing more than just walking. I got myself a rowing machine, and did
30 mins a day (for 2-2.5 hours each week). I got more restrictive in my
diet, ate less fat, more wholegrain bread, more fruit (for breakfast),
etc... I gave up coke and sugared drinks completely, started drinking only
water, and occasionally red wine at dinner. I didn't really lose any weight,
but I got stronger and started feeling more bodily capable.
In May 2005, I went for blood tests again, and my blood sugar values were
even worse, even though cholesterol and liver values were better. I was told
that I might have an upcoming diabetic problem, and put on the standard
diabetic low fat high carb diet. I increased my efforts at keeping a diet,
and doing exercise. In September I stopped smoking.
In November 2005 I went again, to find that my values had worsened... I hit
a FBG of 114, my cholesterols hit an all time high, and my liver values were
the highest ever. Was told that I should start taking statins, totally
refrain from alcohol, and not even take my omega 3 supplements, because they
might have been extracted with alcohol (bad for my liver).
Now I really got worried and thought something is not working out the way it
should, so I started surfing, looking for information. I quickly found that
a non diabetic FBG is between 80 and 90 mg/dl, not the 55 to 105 mg/dl that
my labtest lists as normal. That a normal HbA1C is around 4.8% and not the
4-6% range listed. In other words I realized that I was already in the
diabetic progression, and that I'd better take charge of this myself, and
not trust a doctor who had told me not to worry about diabetes, even though
I've specifically asked that question a couple of years earlier.
I found the advice of post prandial testing and was horrified when I found
out I was regularly spiking at 140, 150, 160 mg/dl... I began to cut out
what was spiking me, which turned out to be starches, certain fruits, and
candy. I started interesting myself for a lowcarb diet and started avidly
reading Quentin's posts on nutrition. I've never done Atkins, but reduced
carbohydrates quite a lot, and after about 3 weeks I was in ketosis and
started feeling like a king. My post prandials went down to 100 - 120 mg/dl.
The tiredness which had plagued me since my youth went away, the coughing
subsided over the weeks to come, even though in December I started smoking
again. The dry patches on my feet disappeared, and I got sweaty feet again.
The attacks of dry hands and flaking skin on my hands have subsided. I think
this was early signs of neuropathy. The chronic tendonitis I had from bass
playing went away. My general mood improved, and my tendency for depression
lessened.
Since then I've replaced my aerobics routine with weightlifting. I still
walk a lot. Don't get the idea that I'm living an athletic life, but I'm
also not a couch potato. At the moment I do a routine of 60 pushups, 30
dips, 15 pullups, and 15 chinups, about 3 times a week. This is done at
different times spread out between my other activities. Think I'm going to
mix that with dumbbell lifting for strength, and some heavy walking in the
forest for my legs and aerobic fitness. Also considering starting Tai-Chi
once a week with a friend, to get more physically and mentally fit and gain
better control over my energy. Recently I hiked 220 Km over 8 days. Made me
feel great. I really love the feeling of a fire burning in my body, and
massive levels of endorphines feel real good ;-)
I lost about 7-8 Kg (15-17 lb) when I split up with my girlfriend (through
adrenaline having a resting pulse of 110-120 bpm instead of 60-80) then
regained 1 or 2 Kg (2-4 lb). But the physical exercise and diet has helped
me lose weight, keep it off, and to build muscle. My weight used to be
69-70Kg (152-154 lb), now it's been hovering around 61 Kg (134 lb) for the
last 6 months. I've gone from a very tight fitting 32" waist, to a loose
fitting 30", next pair of jeans will be 28".
I eat a very satisfying diet. I've more or less eliminated starches, trans
fats, sugar, and processed foods. I cook everything myself and buy nothing
ready made. I'm eating a diet high in vegetables, berries, nuts and seeds,
fish, seafood, and lean meats. The occasional red meat (when I feel like
it), a lot of dried ham, and a variety of goat and hard cheeses. My shopping
basket routinely contains walnuts, pumpkin sesame and flax seeds, ham,
cheese, avocado, eggplants, cherry tomatoes, bell peppers (all colors),
spring onions, shallots, garlic, cucumber, radishes, mushrooms, legumes,
spinach, olives, salmon, flatfishes, shrimps, scampi, mussels, chicken,
eggs, kiwis, plums, peaches, passion fruit, cherries, strawberries,
blueberries, butter, olive oil, balsamic vinegar, cream, Greek yogurt, Lindt
75% or 85% chocolate (without lecithin), coffee, green tea, red wine, etc...
Spices I get fresh from my garden.
Looking at my Fitday logs from April (last time I entered enough data
points), I come in at 2 418 kcal, 150g Fat, 106g Carb and 105g Protein.
I've noticed that I'm not at all so hungry as before. In fact I normally
won't eat very much during the day, if I had a lot to eat the day before. I
also seem to be relearning listening to my body, as in I see how my diet
varies from week to week, depending on what I'd like to eat... I drink a
lot of water, some 3 to 4 liters (3/4-1 Gallon) per day. Sometimes I fast
through the day, and eat a big salad with Feta in the evening. Unfortunately
I still binge sometimes in the evening, but now it's on cheese, nuts,
olives, etc, not on chips and candy... Doesn't really seem to hurt my weight
if it's once every now and then, but if I do it several days in a row I seem
to notice it in the mirror. Motivation to eat less and to burn more
calories. In general I think my binging starts when I've eaten too much
carb, good job that I don't binge on carbs as well...
I recently started to shop around for another doctor. Went to one who
strongly disagreed when I mentioned reduced carb, so I gave him a miss.
Went to another one (young) which I had used 10 years earlier. He doesn't
seem too concerned with a FBG of 114 and an HbA1c from 6%. Told me that it
was not possible to have neuropathy with those values. I do get the
impression that he either regards me as a hypochondriac or is annoyed that
I'm playing at being my own doctor. He did however agree to all my requests
for blood tests, and did not chew me up for going on a reduced carb diet.
Think I'm gonna keep him, if he stays pliable ;-)
Results:
The scanner showed no signs of a fatty liver or pancreas, did however show
beginning atherosclerosis in the iliac arteries, and a light calcification
of my adrenal glands.
My lipid profile ranges from good to excellent. My liver values are good. My
FBG 103 mg/dl and HbA1c 5.4% are lower but still not normal. An Homa
calculation based on FBG and C-peptide gives low insulin resistance IR=1.4
and low insuline production %B=89.1. Uric acid is still high but lower than
before. Inflammatory markers are lower.
The OGTT that I managed to finangle out of the doctor, officially peaked at
265 mg/dl at the 1 hour mark (even though I measured 306 at 1h15min), and
ended up at 200 mg/dl at 2 hours. Enough for a diagnosis of diabetes
(AFAIK), was however told that all test were ok when I called the nurse for
the results...;-) The official results closely matched those of my OneTouch
Ultra (biggest difference was otu=269, test=265). In my opinion the
OneTouch Ultra is reliable enough for our purposes.
Conclusions:
For me personally a change in diet has had the biggest impact on my health.
Exercise in combination with a diet restricting starches and including a
wide variety of phytochemicals, vitamins, fats, and proteins have normalized
my lipid profile, healed my "fatty liver", reduced inflammation and reduced
my blood sugar values. The exercise and diet are also slowly but surely
changing my body composition from overweight couch potato to athletic, with
a corresponding increase in well being and self esteem.
It is a difficult endeavor to change one's ways, but it is possible and well
worth it.
Don't trust a medical doctor. It's your body. You are the one who will
have to live with the consequences of your actions or lack of actions. I
will never again let a doctor treat me, without informing myself as much as
I'm capable of. I've not really tried to understand everything I've read
over endocrinology and other medical matters, but I've slowly and surely
applied what I've learned to change my diet and my way of living.
Future plans:
Stop smoking
Increase aerobic activity, and strength training.
Learn more about endocrinology, metabolism, nutrition and cooking.
A scan of my thorax to find out about atherosclerosis, lungs and heart.
Considering using a long acting insulin in order to preserve beta cells and
normalize blood sugar.
Would like to use a continuous blood glycose monitor, in order to fine tune
my daily routine.
Blood stats:
2001/05/01 FBG=90, Tot-chol=235, Trig=166
2003/11/18 FBG=94, HbA1C=5.8, Tot-chol=154, LDL=109, HDL=32, Trig=88,
GPT=55, GGT=38
2004/10/19 FBG=100, HbA1C=5.8, Tot-chol=248, LDL=180, HDL=41, Trig=276,
GPT=64, GGT=59
2005/05/03 FBG=107, HbA1C=6.0, Tot-chol=216, Trig=139, GPT=47, GGT=46
2005/11/24 FBG=114, HbA1C=6.0, Tot-chol=258, LDL=184, HDL=56, Trig=89,
GPT=64, GGT=68
2006/07/27 FBG=103, HbA1C=5.4, Tot-chol=181, LDL=101, HDL=69, Trig=54,
GPT=17, GGT=21
Many thanks for your inspiration and your help in finding the way! (In no
special order, and by no means complete):
Alan S, Anil, bantista, Doug Freyburger, Chris J, Chris Malcolm, Nicky,
Jefferson, Jennifer, Jenny, Julie Bove, Karen C, LizardQueen, oldal4865,
OzGirl, Susan, Roger Zoul, Uncle Enrico, wmmckee, Quentin Grady and numerous
others.
---
Jack
Alan S
<jacki...@alchemy.lu> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>This is my story. Warning it's a long post.
<snipped for brevity - but read in full>
Hello Jack
Yep - it was certainly that. But I read it all and was
impressed by every word. For someone who has obviously been
lurking for quite a while - that was one heck of an intro.
Have you posted before under a different nick?
There's no need to say much except to congratulate and
belatedly welcome you. Lots of people talk the talk, but
only a very few walk the walk. I got tired just reading
about your exercise and athleticism. Showing the way for
what I should be doing.
You said, for future plans:
"Stop smoking
Increase aerobic activity, and strength training.
Learn more about endocrinology, metabolism, nutrition and
cooking.
A scan of my thorax to find out about atherosclerosis, lungs
and heart.
Considering using a long acting insulin in order to preserve
beta cells and normalize blood sugar.
Would like to use a continuous blood glycose monitor, in
order to fine tune my daily routine."
May I ask that you add one to that list:
"Post regularly on a.s.d/m.h.d, particularly to the
newbies".
They need you. I occasionally use the phrase "experience can
be an expensive teacher". Your experience can help many
others.
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1000mg, ezetrol 10mg
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
W.M.McKee
<jacki...@alchemy.lu> wrote:
>This is my story. Warning it's a long post. Medical stats are listed at the
>end of the post for those who care. I'm posting this to say thanks to this
>group, and the Internet in general. I hope that it might serve as a warning
>and as an inspiration for the individuals who read it and who might benefit
>from my experiences.
>
>Disclaimer: I am not a medical professional, and do not presume to give
>medical advice. This is just my personal experience...
>
> I'm a 45 year old male 178 cm (5'10'') tall, never been obese but never
>been sporty, self diagnosed IFG/IGT/T2. My mother was overweight and
>diabetic, and I've seen the entire panoply: bad circulation, neuropathy,
>strokes, macular degeneration, amputation, kidney failure, have I left
>something out..? My father was overweight and had a couple of heart attacks,
>before he died of a massive coronary in the hospital... One sister has
>celiac and lupus, and the other sister (judging by her looks and life style)
>is well on her way to follow in my mother's footsteps, even though she
>claims to be in good health.
Hi Jack,
Thank you for that remarkable post. It is truly inspirational. I can
only echo Alan's response and say that I hope you will hang out with
us for some time to come.... You have discovered the same golden path
that several others of us are on, except you are doing it so much
better than I am at the moment! Yes, without a doubt, dietary choices
and exercise do make all the difference, as you have proven in your
own experience :-)
Wow! is all I can say right now.
Keep up the good work.
Will, T2
Jenny
> Hi,
> I recently started to shop around for another doctor. Went to one who
> strongly disagreed when I mentioned reduced carb, so I gave him a miss.
> Went to another one (young) which I had used 10 years earlier. He doesn't
> seem too concerned with a FBG of 114 and an HbA1c from 6%. Told me that it
> was not possible to have neuropathy with those values.
So glad to hear you are making such positive changes. Your numbers while
not perfect have cut your risk way down and should continue to improve
over time. A study I saw recently (but don't have at hand) suggests that
the A1c seems to becomes a bit less reflective of actual bg levels as
it approaches 5%.
One reason may be that the red blood cells being measured live much
longer in a lower glucose environment. Since they live longer, they
continue to glycosylate extra month or two. Keep up what you are doing
and you may see an even better result next time.
Re your doctor saying that it was not possible to have neuropathy with
those values, follow the links to the research on
http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/14045678.php
print them out, and bring them on your next appointment, if he still
pooh-poohs the connection between IGT and neuropathy shown by all three
of these peer reviewed studies and if he ignores the fact that your OGTT
results are diagnostic of full fledged diabetes, you will need to find
someone more competent.
--Jenny
http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes Diabetes Info
http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/newlydiagnosed.htm Get Your Blood
Sugar Under Control
Jack In A Box
> lurking for quite a while - that was one heck of an intro.
> Have you posted before under a different nick?
No never, been lurking since December last year.
> I got tired just reading
> about your exercise and athleticism. Showing the way for
> what I should be doing.
If someone would have told me some years ago that I would be lifting weights
and trekking 100 of kms, I would have called them crazy. I've also taken my
time easing into it, since I didn't want to hurt myself by overdoing it. It
still takes an effort though, but I think I'm slowly getting into the
routine, and I like the payback. And let's face it health is a powerful
motivator..;-)
> "Post regularly on a.s.d/m.h.d, particularly to the
> newbies".
>
> They need you. I occasionally use the phrase "experience can
> be an expensive teacher". Your experience can help many
> others.
I'll try. This is one reason I posted at all. I do find however, that in
spite of only working 25 hours a week, I still have to prioritize my time.
And just wading through all the more or less useless post is already time
consuming.. Maybe I should killfile even more people ;-)
Actually you are right about the other newsgroups. I'll crosspost a reply
to this thread and repost my inital post.
---
Jack
Jack In A Box
Hi,
This is my story. Warning it's a long post. Medical stats are listed at the
Results:
Conclusions:
Future plans:
Stop smoking
Increase aerobic activity, and strength training.
Learn more about endocrinology, metabolism, nutrition and cooking.
A scan of my thorax to find out about atherosclerosis, lungs and heart.
Considering using a long acting insulin in order to preserve beta cells and
normalize blood sugar.
Would like to use a continuous blood glycose monitor, in order to fine tune
my daily routine.
Blood stats:
Jack In A Box
"W.M.McKee" <wmm...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:1ibah2h66rlejli8s...@4ax.com...
> Thank you for that remarkable post. It is truly inspirational. I can
> only echo Alan's response and say that I hope you will hang out with
> us for some time to come.... You have discovered the same golden path
> that several others of us are on, except you are doing it so much
> better than I am at the moment! Yes, without a doubt, dietary choices
> and exercise do make all the difference, as you have proven in your
> own experience :-)
I'll try to share my experiences with the rest of you. If someone can
benefit from them it makes me all the happier, then my suffering was not for
naught..;-)
You know it's like walking, one step after the other. If you start applying
yourself you will make progress, reap benefits, which will in turn help and
motivate you to do more... If I would have kept on feeling as tired as I've
felt for years, I doubt I would have had the energy to try to get into
shape. I think one has to try to break out of downward spin, and find the
termals that will bring you up again.
> Keep up the good work.
I think I've reached the point of no return. I can no longer go back to my
old way of life, it's gone forever and good riddance ;-)
---
Jack
Jack In A Box
"Jenny" <lott...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Ffqdnasd3YBX3IjY...@rcn.net...
> One reason may be that the red blood cells being measured live much longer
> in a lower glucose environment. Since they live longer, they continue to
> glycosylate extra month or two. Keep up what you are doing and you may see
> an even better result next time.
Thank you for the encouraging words. The last 5 days I've had a FBG under
90 mg/dl, and I haven't seen a postprandial over 100. Don't know the
reason, maybe because I've been working out a lot this week, or because I've
eaten a lot of fish, or because I've indulged in more red wine than usual,
or because... So many variables ;-)
> print them out, and bring them on your next appointment, if he still
> pooh-poohs the connection between IGT and neuropathy shown by all three of
> these peer reviewed studies and if he ignores the fact that your OGTT
> results are diagnostic of full fledged diabetes, you will need to find
> someone more competent.
I'm beginning to wonder where do I find someone like that. I personally
feel that it is lamentable that the medical community seems bent on ignoring
recent research and let people slide into diabetes, instead of taking an
aggressive stance and beginning treatment the moment FBG rises above 90...
It also seems to me that the personal suffering and economic consequences of
ignoring prediabetes are staggering, and will be even more so in the future.
---
Jack
Loretta Eisenberg
Just one thing, an a1c of 5.4 is absolutely goodl I dont know where you
got the information that 4.8 was normal.
under 6 is good, Of course, the lower the better, but in the fives is
excellent
Keep up the good work and I hope you remain very healthy Your family
history is not the best.
Loretta
--
In tribute to the United States of America and the State
of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and
terrorism.
W.M.McKee
<jacki...@alchemy.lu> wrote:
>>
>I'm beginning to wonder where do I find someone like that. I personally
>feel that it is lamentable that the medical community seems bent on ignoring
>recent research and let people slide into diabetes, instead of taking an
>aggressive stance and beginning treatment the moment FBG rises above 90...
>It also seems to me that the personal suffering and economic consequences of
>ignoring prediabetes are staggering, and will be even more so in the future.
>
>
Hi Jack,
Jack, I think a lot of it depends on the choices and hard decisions
people are willing to make and what effort they are willing to put
forth. You are somewhat the exception, in that you have made some firm
decisions about how you are going to deal with the problem, and whats
more, you are following through. Many people cannot, or will not, do
that for a lot of reasons.
Thus, many doctors do not even try to give the right encouragement. I
have had doctor friends tell me that when they have tried to tell
their patients the whole bleak truth about IGT and diabetes, point
blank, and what the patients must do to take back their health, many
patients never come back, and wind up going to some more "go with the
flow" kind of guy.
Will, T2
Jack In A Box
news:271-4515...@storefull-3234.bay.webtv.net...
> Just one thing, an a1c of 5.4 is absolutely goodl I dont know where you
> got the information that 4.8 was normal.
>
> under 6 is good, Of course, the lower the better, but in the fives is
> excellent
I don't know either anymore, but I do believe that around 4.8 is a truly
nondiabetic number, in my opinion something for us T2s to strive for. I
don't think there is an absolute correspondance, but the fact that I had
beginning neuropathy in my autonomous nervous system with an a1c of 6% is
food for thought for me. Don't get me wrong I am thrilled with the changes
in blood values, and in the way I feel..!
> Keep up the good work and I hope you remain very healthy Your family
> history is not the best.
I intend to, and if I have to go down, then I intend to down fighting ;-)
---
Jack
Jack In A Box
> Jack, I think a lot of it depends on the choices and hard decisions
> people are willing to make and what effort they are willing to put
> forth. You are somewhat the exception, in that you have made some firm
> decisions about how you are going to deal with the problem, and whats
> more, you are following through. Many people cannot, or will not, do
> that for a lot of reasons.
I realize what you are saying. For me personally it all started six years
ago when I was faced with a lot of personal problems, and I felt like I
didn't want to wake up anymore. One day I decided that I can't take this,
and I started searching for clues of what was wrong with me.
What I've found since, is that part of my problem was circumstances forced
upon me from the outside world, and that I had to learn to say no. Another
part was that I was only a shadow of what I could be, but I had to start
being honest with myself about who I am, and what I want from my life. I've
since rejected certain parts of my personality which were formed by my
upbringing, the culture in which I grew up, my friends, etc.
In place I've had to develop new interests, new ways of looking at things,
new values, etc... I can tell you it has not been easy, but from where I'm
standing today more than worthwhile. In short I think I've reclaimed my
life as my own, and I don't live it for other people anymore. Of course all
this means that I have to take responsability for my own life. There is
still a part of me that bemoans the loss of mommy, daddy and my childhood,
that feels life is very unfair, that would like a magic pill to cure me,
etc...
In the end I don't regret my life to this point in time, in effect I am
quite pleased that I am where I am, and I realize that without my past I
would not be here..;-) In many ways I think I've finally grown up, I feel
I've solved most problems that I was saddled with in my youth. By now I do
have an interest in giving something back to life and people less fortunate
than me, because I feel I've been richly rewarded by life. A question which
occupies me now is how, posting here might be one way ;-)
> Thus, many doctors do not even try to give the right encouragement. I
> have had doctor friends tell me that when they have tried to tell
> their patients the whole bleak truth about IGT and diabetes, point
> blank, and what the patients must do to take back their health, many
> patients never come back, and wind up going to some more "go with the
> flow" kind of guy.
I still find this a cop out. Maybe realistic, but in the end we are all
responsible for our own lives, and suffer the consequences of our own
actions... In my personal case I've had four doctors ignore the fact that I
was prediabetic. One frankly told me that I did not have a problem when I
asked specifically about diabetes. Another doctor's nurse tell me my blood
tests are OK, even though I just failed an OGTT. I was ignorant, and I did
not realize that I had a problem. If they would have told me a few years
earlier I would most likely have taken action earlier..! It's a behavior
that I personally find offensive, and has shaken my trust of doctors. In the
end I have placed my trust in a professional, I've paid the bill, and I feel
cheated because I don't think I've been given what I've paid for..!
Oh well, in many ways my diabetes is a blessing in disguise, in as much as
it's forced me to wake up even more, and to claim even more of my potential
;-)) It seems to me that most things in life have a bad and a good side, if
you are aware enough to see it.
---
Jack
W.M.McKee
<jacki...@alchemy.lu> wrote:
>
>"W.M.McKee" <wmm...@cox.net> wrote in message
>news:s3lah2lcdfsg5mlm8...@4ax.com...
>
>What I've found since, is that part of my problem was circumstances forced
>upon me from the outside world, and that I had to learn to say no. Another
>part was that I was only a shadow of what I could be, but I had to start
>being honest with myself about who I am, and what I want from my life. I've
>since rejected certain parts of my personality which were formed by my
>upbringing, the culture in which I grew up, my friends, etc.
>
>In place I've had to develop new interests, new ways of looking at things,
>new values, etc... I can tell you it has not been easy, but from where I'm
>standing today more than worthwhile. In short I think I've reclaimed my
>life as my own, and I don't live it for other people anymore. Of course all
>this means that I have to take responsability for my own life. There is
>still a part of me that bemoans the loss of mommy, daddy and my childhood,
>that feels life is very unfair, that would like a magic pill to cure me,
>etc...
>
>In the end I don't regret my life to this point in time, in effect I am
>quite pleased that I am where I am, and I realize that without my past I
>would not be here..;-) In many ways I think I've finally grown up, I feel
>I've solved most problems that I was saddled with in my youth. By now I do
>have an interest in giving something back to life and people less fortunate
>than me, because I feel I've been richly rewarded by life. A question which
>occupies me now is how, posting here might be one way ;-)
>
>>>>>>>>snip for brevity only>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
>Oh well, in many ways my diabetes is a blessing in disguise, in as much as
>it's forced me to wake up even more, and to claim even more of my potential
>;-)) It seems to me that most things in life have a bad and a good side, if
>you are aware enough to see it.
>
Again I say, Jack you are an exceptional man. I admire you greatly for
what you have been able to accomplish and the way in which you have
been able to change your life for the better.
I think you are 'spot on' in your thought that by posting here you can
help others. We can all benefit from your posts, myself included.
Will, T2
Cheri
consume you, and get on with your life. Sounds like you've done a great
job of turning things around for yourself. I'll look forward to reading
lots of posts from you. :-)
--
Cheri
Jack In A Box wrote in message <4515...@news.vo.lu>...
Jack In A Box
> Again I say, Jack you are an exceptional man. I admire you greatly for
> what you have been able to accomplish and the way in which you have
> been able to change your life for the better.
Thank you very much for your words! It warms my heart to read them.
You yourself have served me as inspiration and as a source of information in
my battle with my diabetes, and for that I will be forever grateful..!
---
Jack
Jack In A Box
"Cheri" <gserviceatinreachdotcom> wrote in message
news:tuedncmWsttm9IjY...@inreach.com...
>I think we all feel that way at times, the main thing is to not let it
> consume you, and get on with your life. Sounds like you've done a great
> job of turning things around for yourself. I'll look forward to reading
> lots of posts from you. :-)
I suppose it's human nature to have these feelings, not that they are very
useful...
Well, I've done a good job at posting today, my flat still needs cleaning,
there is a basket full needing ironing, I've still got to organize my
holliday photos and send out to my new friends, dinner needs to be made,
etc..;-) Had great fun posting and reading the replies anyway..!
---
Jack
Nicky
"Jack In A Box" <jacki...@alchemy.lu> wrote in message
news:4515...@news.vo.lu...
> In the end I don't regret my life to this point in time, in effect I am
> quite pleased that I am where I am, and I realize that without my past I
> would not be here..;-) In many ways I think I've finally grown up, I feel
> I've solved most problems that I was saddled with in my youth. By now I
> do have an interest in giving something back to life and people less
> fortunate than me, because I feel I've been richly rewarded by life. A
> question which occupies me now is how, posting here might be one way ;-)
Jack, that strikes me as a very mature attitude. I'm currently reading a
very interesting book called "Aging Well" by George E Vaillant - your taking
control of your health management, your positive attitude, your new friends
and activities, your willingness to learn, and your willingness to help
others meet all but one of his criteria for a happy and productive person
throughout life. The only thing you're missing is giving up the smoking : )
So good for you - CONGRATULATIONS on superb progress, and your determination
to continue the trend. I hope you post a lot, we need successes like you!
Nicky.
--
A1c 10.5/5.3/<6 T2 DX 05/2004
No Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine
95/72/72Kg
Gene
Good post, Jack. A good example of the importance of diet and exercise.
Just a thought. I was paying to go to a gym until I brought that Chuck
Norris endorsed exercise machine. Best exercise machine I brought - ever.
I tossed out the rest and gave my free weights to my son and just use it.
Last I looked it was around 200 dollars and worth every penny. The way
it works it acts like free weights better than anything I've used and you
can use it for an aerobic workout or a strength workout. Might be worth
checking out.
Potato's are bad for you whether if you eat one or emulate one.
--
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much
liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." Thomas
Jefferson
"History is earmarked by the successes of liberals and mistakes of
conservatives." - ETG, CW4 USA Retired
Howard S Shubs
"Jack In A Box" <jacki...@alchemy.lu> wrote:
> This is my story. Warning it's a long post. Medical stats are listed at the
> end of the post for those who care. I'm posting this to say thanks to this
> group, and the Internet in general. I hope that it might serve as a warning
> and as an inspiration for the individuals who read it and who might benefit
> from my experiences.
Okay, that post is a keeper.
--
Being quick to take offense is not a virtue.
Witchy Way
diagnosed!
you wrote
<<Don't trust a medical doctor. It's your body. You are the one who will
have to live with the consequences>>
i know you mentioned the useless low fat diet
i just would like to add...
never trust the certified diabetic educator. they have no clue & will
lead you down the garden path with carb laden diets.
Jenny
>> pooh-poohs the connection between IGT and neuropathy shown by all three of
>> these peer reviewed studies and if he ignores the fact that your OGTT
>> results are diagnostic of full fledged diabetes, you will need to find
>> someone more competent.
>
> I'm beginning to wonder where do I find someone like that.
I started with a rotten doctor, moved to an okay doctor, and finally
found a really smart guy who has been very helpful to me over the past 5
years.
How I found him was to ask doctors and hospital nurses who we ran into
socially who they thought was the best family practice doctor in the
area. We kept hearing the same name from everyone. When I asked one
doctor why he chose this guy, he said, "When we have continuing
education classes, he always asks the most interesting questions."
He has turned out to be a wonderful doctor, clearing up one major
problem I was told was incurable and completely supportive of my desire
to have normal blood sugars. In fact, he was MORE aggressive than I was
a year ago and put me on insulin before I thought it was time. It turned
out to be exactly the right move.
W.M.McKee
wrote:
>I started with a rotten doctor, moved to an okay doctor, and finally
>found a really smart guy who has been very helpful to me over the past 5
>years.
>
>How I found him was to ask doctors and hospital nurses who we ran into
>socially who they thought was the best family practice doctor in the
>area. We kept hearing the same name from everyone. When I asked one
>doctor why he chose this guy, he said, "When we have continuing
>education classes, he always asks the most interesting questions."
>
>He has turned out to be a wonderful doctor, clearing up one major
>problem I was told was incurable and completely supportive of my desire
>to have normal blood sugars. In fact, he was MORE aggressive than I was
>a year ago and put me on insulin before I thought it was time. It turned
>out to be exactly the right move.
>
>--Jenny
Hi Jenny,
Your story goes to show the value of being an intelligent and critical
patient. You have enhanced your odds of survival.
By the way, please do not shy away from us here... some of us really,
really like having you around ! You have lots of good and valuable
info to share. :-)
Will, T2
Jenny
> Hi Jenny,
>
> By the way, please do not shy away from us here... some of us really,
> really like having you around ! You have lots of good and valuable
> info to share. :-)
>
Will,
I just don't have the time or energy to plow through the reams of
paranoid crap that has taken over what used to be a very helpful newsgroup.
When I filter out threads infested by the people whose participation
always ends useful dialog I end up with almost nothing left to read. The
people who used to post useful information have mostly taken themselves
elsewhere and mostly what I'm reading here reminds me of the old Monty
Python "Argument" skit.
I'm enjoying the discussions at
http://www.diabetes-book.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl
where there are quite a few people with diabetes who post because they
want to discuss ideas are eager to find out from others what has worked
for them.
Though that bbs is sponsored by Bernstein, the people posting there are
using a variety of diets and techniques to control their sugars, not
just the techniques he describes, and there is a welcoming attitude to
anyone who wants to share what they've done to get by.
A couple people from a.s.d have made their way over there. It's worth
checking out.
W.M.McKee
wrote:
>W.M.McKee wrote:
>> Hi Jenny,
>>
>> By the way, please do not shy away from us here... some of us really,
>> really like having you around ! You have lots of good and valuable
>> info to share. :-)
>>
>
>Will,
>
>I just don't have the time or energy to plow through the reams of
>paranoid crap that has taken over what used to be a very helpful newsgroup.
>
>When I filter out threads infested by the people whose participation
>always ends useful dialog I end up with almost nothing left to read. The
>people who used to post useful information have mostly taken themselves
>elsewhere and mostly what I'm reading here reminds me of the old Monty
>Python "Argument" skit.
>
>I'm enjoying the discussions at
>
>http://www.diabetes-book.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl
>
>
Thanks, Jenny, for the info and the link. Sorry to hear of your
disappointment with this group, but I do know quite well what you are
talking about. Maybe I'll see you over there... There are lots of
good folk still here, however... please do not give up the ship!
Will, T2
Alice Faber
Jenny <lott...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm enjoying the discussions at
>
> http://www.diabetes-book.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl
>
> where there are quite a few people with diabetes who post because they
> want to discuss ideas are eager to find out from others what has worked
> for them.
>
> Though that bbs is sponsored by Bernstein, the people posting there are
> using a variety of diets and techniques to control their sugars, not
> just the techniques he describes, and there is a welcoming attitude to
> anyone who wants to share what they've done to get by.
>
> A couple people from a.s.d have made their way over there. It's worth
> checking out.
I just did. (A) It was a pain in the you-know-what to register. (B) Once
I could see the forum interface, I realized that, like other such
forums, it's almost impossible to keep track of conversations. I saw a
few interesting things, but don't know how I'd get back to them without
a lot of effort.
--
AF
"Non Sequitur U has a really, really lousy debate team."
--artyw raises the bar on rec.sport.baseball
Alan S
Keep in touch Jenny, even if only for the newbies.
As we wander through life we come across some people we
like, many we learn from and a few we respect. We meet so
few that are all three.
Thank you for being here when I needed you.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
>
> This is my story. Warning it's a long post. Medical stats are listed at the
> end of the post for those who care. I'm posting this to say thanks to this
> group, and the Internet in general. I hope that it might serve as a warning
> and as an inspiration for the individuals who read it and who might benefit
> from my experiences.
>
Becoming lean&trim around the waist is the key to possibly curing your
metabolic syndrome (MetS) and type-2 diabetes in time.
In truth, getting rid of all the visceral adipose tissue (VAT) is the
key here.
The single best indirect measure of VAT is waistline.
The main obstacle you will face toward continued progress in losing all
your VAT as you become healthier (ie cured of your type-2 diabetes) is
becoming hungrier.
The only way to overcome this obstacle is to befriend your healthy
appetite.
> I recently started to shop around for another doctor. Went to one who
> strongly disagreed when I mentioned reduced carb, so I gave him a miss.
> Went to another one (young) which I had used 10 years earlier. He doesn't
> seem too concerned with a FBG of 114 and an HbA1c from 6%. Told me that it
> was not possible to have neuropathy with those values. I do get the
> impression that he either regards me as a hypochondriac or is annoyed that
> I'm playing at being my own doctor. He did however agree to all my requests
> for blood tests, and did not chew me up for going on a reduced carb diet.
> Think I'm gonna keep him, if he stays pliable ;-)
>
> Results:
>
> The scanner showed no signs of a fatty liver or pancreas, did however show
> beginning atherosclerosis in the iliac arteries, and a light calcification
> of my adrenal glands.
Uh-oh.
This suggests that your hyperketonemia which is suppressing your
appetite has accelerated lipid peroxidation thereby causing
atherosclerosis.
Hyperketonemia will also maintain insulin resistance and keep VAT
around.
> My lipid profile ranges from good to excellent. My liver values are good. My
> FBG 103 mg/dl and HbA1c 5.4% are lower but still not normal. An Homa
> calculation based on FBG and C-peptide gives low insulin resistance IR=1.4
> and low insuline production %B=89.1. Uric acid is still high but lower than
> before. Inflammatory markers are lower.
>
> The OGTT that I managed to finangle out of the doctor, officially peaked at
> 265 mg/dl at the 1 hour mark (even though I measured 306 at 1h15min), and
> ended up at 200 mg/dl at 2 hours. Enough for a diagnosis of diabetes
> (AFAIK), was however told that all test were ok when I called the nurse for
> the results...;-) The official results closely matched those of my OneTouch
> Ultra (biggest difference was otu=269, test=265). In my opinion the
> OneTouch Ultra is reliable enough for our purposes.
>
> Conclusions:
>
> For me personally a change in diet has had the biggest impact on my health.
> Exercise in combination with a diet restricting starches and including a
> wide variety of phytochemicals, vitamins, fats, and proteins have normalized
> my lipid profile, healed my "fatty liver", reduced inflammation and reduced
> my blood sugar values. The exercise and diet are also slowly but surely
> changing my body composition from overweight couch potato to athletic, with
> a corresponding increase in well being and self esteem.
>
> It is a difficult endeavor to change one's ways, but it is possible and well
> worth it.
>
> Don't trust a medical doctor. It's your body. You are the one who will
> have to live with the consequences of your actions or lack of actions. I
> will never again let a doctor treat me, without informing myself as much as
> I'm capable of. I've not really tried to understand everything I've read
> over endocrinology and other medical matters, but I've slowly and surely
> applied what I've learned to change my diet and my way of living.
>
> Future plans:
>
> Stop smoking
> Increase aerobic activity, and strength training.
> Learn more about endocrinology, metabolism, nutrition and cooking.
> A scan of my thorax to find out about atherosclerosis, lungs and heart.
> Considering using a long acting insulin in order to preserve beta cells and
> normalize blood sugar.
This will make you hungrier. My hope for you is that you befriend your
healthy appetite (aka hunger).
> Would like to use a continuous blood glycose monitor, in order to fine tune
> my daily routine.
>
> Blood stats:
>
> 2001/05/01 FBG=90, Tot-chol=235, Trig=166
Possible MetS.
> 2003/11/18 FBG=94, HbA1C=5.8, Tot-chol=154, LDL=109, HDL=32, Trig=88,
> GPT=55, GGT=38
MetS (elevated HgbA1c) .
> 2004/10/19 FBG=100, HbA1C=5.8, Tot-chol=248, LDL=180, HDL=41, Trig=276,
> GPT=64, GGT=59
MetS.
> 2005/05/03 FBG=107, HbA1C=6.0, Tot-chol=216, Trig=139, GPT=47, GGT=46
Possible T2DM.
> 2005/11/24 FBG=114, HbA1C=6.0, Tot-chol=258, LDL=184, HDL=56, Trig=89,
> GPT=64, GGT=68
Probable T2DM.
> 2006/07/27 FBG=103, HbA1C=5.4, Tot-chol=181, LDL=101, HDL=69, Trig=54,
> GPT=17, GGT=21
MetS.
> Many thanks for your inspiration and your help in finding the way! (In no
> special order, and by no means complete):
>
> Alan S, Anil, bantista, Doug Freyburger, Chris J, Chris Malcolm, Nicky,
> Jefferson, Jennifer, Jenny, Julie Bove, Karen C, LizardQueen, oldal4865,
> OzGirl, Susan, Roger Zoul, Uncle Enrico, wmmckee, Quentin Grady and numerous
> others.
May GOD continue to heal your heart by curing your diabetes, dear
neighbor Jack whom I love unconditionally.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung
Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit
As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies
(Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/a77da2d26da0ab97?
Witchy Way
all responsible for our own lives, and suffer the consequences of our
own actions... In my personal case I've had four doctors ignore the fact
that I was prediabetic. One frankly told me that I did not have a
problem when I asked specifically about diabetes. Another doctor's nurse
tell me my blood tests are OK, even though I just failed an OGTT. I was
ignorant, and I did not realize that I had a problem. If they would have
told me a few years earlier I would most likely have taken action
earlier..! It's a behavior that I personally find offensive, and has
shaken my trust of doctors. In the end I have placed my trust in a
professional, I've paid the bill, and I feel cheated because I don't
think I've been given what I've paid for..!>>
jack
me too. i was under-treated. i found copies of old test results from
chicago, even those done by an endo. my fasting numbers were 113-115.
that was 4 yrs ago. neither in chicago nor in missouri did it ring any
bells. i dint know i should worry or take action because they were not
concerned
i thank my primary care physician everytime i see him for taking me as a
patient and for diagnosing me. and i mean it! not only is he a caring
doctor, gives you time to talk, gives referrals, always has his nurse
return call...he is a good doctor.
i've finally found one!!!!!!! i had heard there were a handful on the
planet, but i thought it was just a rumor!
;-)
Witchy Way
disappointment with this group, but I do know quite well what you are
talking about. Maybe I'll see you over there... There are lots of good
folk still here, however... please do not give up the ship!
Will, T2>>
please dont leave here! i read all your posts. i first read you in the
low-carb group. you helped me tremendoulsly through posts & your
website.
Jennifer
Thanks for sharing it Jack... it's a keeper!
Best of health to you always,
Jennifer
Jenny
>
> I just did. (A) It was a pain in the you-know-what to register. (B) Once
> I could see the forum interface, I realized that, like other such
> forums, it's almost impossible to keep track of conversations. I saw a
> few interesting things, but don't know how I'd get back to them without
> a lot of effort.
>
where it lets you mark everything as read. Then when you go in next
time, you will see a "new" marker on any thread that has new messages.
Clicking on the "new" marker will take you to the new message.
The extra time spent going through that less than the time I spend here
waiting for messages that turn out to be religious rants etc.
--
Jenny
>
> Keep in touch Jenny, even if only for the newbies.
>
> As we wander through life we come across some people we
> like, many we learn from and a few we respect. We meet so
> few that are all three.
>
> Thank you for being here when I needed you.
>
Thanks. Your words mean a lot! You've got my email, so don't be a
stranger! I'll be keeping up with my blog too.
Jenny
> please dont leave here! i read all your posts. i first read you in the
> low-carb group. you helped me tremendoulsly through posts & your
> website.
>
The low carb group was a while ago! That was another great group that
kind of faded out for me after a while. That seems to be the pattern of
the great boards I've participated in over the years.
When I first started sysopping in the early 90s on Compuserve, someone
told me that every board is fun for a while and then it starts to seem
as if it has gone into reruns. That turned out to be very true.
Fortunately, everything we've all posted here (and on any newsgroup) is
all still out there on Google Groups and all searchable which is nice
because it expresses you right past the flamewars and egos to the
information you were looking for.
Cheri
--
Cheri
>Witchy Way wrote: speaking of Jenny
Roger Zoul
Craig
Inspirational results based on inspirational effort! Please keep us informed
of your future progress.
Best Wishes,
Craig, Type 2
NSW, Australia
"Jack In A Box" <jacki...@alchemy.lu> wrote in message
news:4515...@news.vo.lu...
> Hi,
>
Michelle
Very telling, impressive story. It takes guts to throw out the medical
advice, but your careful record keeping shows how it was exactly the wrong
thing for a T2 diabetic. You've done a wonderful job at researching and
applying what you've learned. Awesome! I hope you'll find some time to
continue posting to ASD--newbies need to hear your experience. It clearly
demonstrates that we can make a major difference in our own health. Thanks
so much for sharing.
--
Michelle, T2
diet & exercise
snipped post for brevity--but read the entirety.
Jack In A Box
"Michelle" <bookb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:kjagu3-...@news.air-internet.com...
> Very telling, impressive story. It takes guts to throw out the medical
> advice, but your careful record keeping shows how it was exactly the wrong
> thing for a T2 diabetic.
I would suspect that this is the truth. In any case it seems it was the
wrong thing for me and my metabolism. It does seem logical to me that if
your body has problems with it's carbohydrate metabolism, it is a wise thing
to change your nutrition in order to avoid high blood sugar with it's awful
consequences...
I sincerely hope that Chung is wrong in his diagnoses that my beginning
aetherosclorosis is caused by being in ketosis. I think I'll ignore him
like I've done for the last 9 months ;-) I rather think it's the result of
years of high blood sugar, high lipids, inactivity, high alcohol consumption
and tobacco abuse.
He is however right in learning to listen to your own body. If I look back
at my life I've never eaten much fruit, especially in the morning. I always
used to cut as thin a slice of bread as I could, and put a lot of butter and
heaps of meat or cheese on it. I can remember that every woman I've spent
time with (from my mother and onwards) used to tell me that it was unhealthy
and that I should eat more bread and less meat and fat. It was however my
natural inclination and what tasted good to me.
All I've really done is to cut out bread and potatoes (rice I've never been
fond of), and to replace them with nuts and vegetables. I really enjoy
heaps of olive oil on my salads, and nice cream or butter sauces with my
meat. Cheese seems like an excellent desert. It is a very satisfying way of
eating, and in no way a burden on me (except for my wallet, I spend more on
walnuts than I do on tobacco ;-). The only thing I really miss is Pizza ;-)
I am however planning on a small pizza next week when I go out to eat with a
friend. I'm planning on eating the middle of a half size pizza leaving the
outside crust, together with a tomato and onion salad. Prior testing seems
to indicate that I can allow myself this treat, especially if I've had a
long walk before and combine the meal with some red wine. I might even
splurge and have an Icecream with chocolate sauce as desert ;-) Gotta watch
it though, cause I don't want to stimulate my carb addiction...
A few potato replacement tips which at least to me taste far superiour.
Cut half an Eggplant in small cubes, fry them in plenty of olive oil on
medium heat with a garlic clove sliced thinly. Put on a paper towel to drain
some fat, add salt and pepper.
Boil caulliflower, pour the water away and mash, add butter, salt and
pepper.
Will's zucchini recipe is also a keeper. Best way I've found so far to
prepare them. I did however add some garlic to mine ;-)
---
Jack
Jack In A Box
"Nicky" <ukc802...@btconnect.com> wrote in message
news:4nlf2cF...@individual.net...
> The only thing you're missing is giving up the smoking : )
<Big grin> I knew there was something I was missing ;-)
The thought is constantly turning in my head, but I do keep putting it off
(see how mature and/or addicted I am ;-)
One day real soon now. I am working up to it, and recently subscribed to
some support groups.
---
Jack
Jack In A Box
"Gene" <Ge...@polyglot.com> wrote in message
news:Xns98479B54E3A26R...@216.77.188.18...
> Just a thought. I was paying to go to a gym until I brought that Chuck
> Norris endorsed exercise machine. Best exercise machine I brought - ever.
I've been to the gym using machines and didn't like it very much. I prefer
walking in the nature, and am very fond at the moment with my routine using
my body weight. I think of it as functional strength.
Thanks for the thought and praise in any case!
> Potato's are bad for you whether if you eat one or emulate one.
<Big grin> You can say that again.
---
Jack
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> news:kjagu3-...@news.air-internet.com...
>
> > Very telling, impressive story. It takes guts to throw out the medical
> > advice, but your careful record keeping shows how it was exactly the wrong
> > thing for a T2 diabetic.
>
> I would suspect that this is the truth. In any case it seems it was the
> wrong thing for me and my metabolism. It does seem logical to me that if
> your body has problems with it's carbohydrate metabolism, it is a wise thing
> to change your nutrition in order to avoid high blood sugar with it's awful
> consequences...
>
> I sincerely hope that Chung is wrong in his diagnoses that my beginning
> aetherosclorosis is caused by being in ketosis.
Those in the Holy Spirit are never wrong for HE is always right.
Most assuredly, without doubt, I know HIM to be kind, just, and right.
> I think I'll ignore him
> like I've done for the last 9 months
Sorry the words that the Holy Spirit guides me to write in these posts
bother you so terribly. Please forgive all my iniquities.
You would be wiser to befriend your hunger/craving/wanting and find
things to do instead of things to eat in between smaller meals.
This is the only way to lose all the visceral adipose tissue (VAT) that
is keeping you from shaking the metabolic syndrome (MetS) and type-2
diabetes.
Jack In A Box
"Witchy Way" <witc...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:27363-451...@storefull-3136.bay.webtv.net...
> i just would like to add...
> never trust the certified diabetic educator. they have no clue & will
> lead you down the garden path with carb laden diets.
What I don't understand is that there doesn't seem to be much of a momentum
to change official dietary guidelines. The personal health consequences and
costs to our medical systems will most likely be staggering. However maybe
I'm misguided or a small minority in that I can't process starches properly,
or maybe it's even more sinister. How are we going to feed the billions on
this planet if we give up starches as a food source...
I shudder to think of what my mother was fed in hospital as a diabetic.
Salads consisting mainly of canned corn, peas and carrots. Meat with
starchy sauces, Industrial white bread with margarine and diabetic jam...
Poor woman, she really had no chance..;-(
---
Jack
Jack In A Box
"Jenny" <lott...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:GIednbTDMeuEP4jY...@rcn.net...
> I started with a rotten doctor, moved to an okay doctor, and finally found
> a really smart guy who has been very helpful to me over the past 5 years.
That is probably very good advice. My personal problem (or hopefully
salvation) is that I am planning on becoming homeless next year. I want to
take a backpack and a tent and go walking "The Saint James Way" in spain for
a year or two. It's something which has been a mindaltering experience for
me in the past, and hopefully will help me greatly with my personal growth
and health.
It seems the best plan for me is to find out what medical tests I need to
control my diabetic, inflammatory and trombotic status, and to keep an eye
on my aetherosclorosis. That way the doctor can do whatever tests he feels
he needs and advice me if he finds something, and I can keep an eye on the
markers which I find of interest.
I'll see about following you advice though. I suppose I shouldn't write off
all doctors, just because my experiences until now have been more than
disappointing.
---
Jack
Jack In A Box
"Alan S" <loralgtwei...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:pscbh2pbmasp8b91h...@4ax.com...
>>Thanks, Jenny,
> Thank you for being here when I needed you.
I'd like to second that thank you. Your postings helped me enormously when
I really needed it.. I'll be forever grateful from the bottom of my heart!
---
Jack
Jack In A Box
> me too. i was under-treated. i found copies of old test results from
> chicago, even those done by an endo. my fasting numbers were 113-115.
> that was 4 yrs ago. neither in chicago nor in missouri did it ring any
> bells. i dint know i should worry or take action because they were not
> concerned
I hope that you didn't suffer too many consequences as a result of this
cavalier attitude !
> i've finally found one!!!!!!! i had heard there were a handful on the
> planet, but i thought it was just a rumor!
So do I, but I suppose I should start looking for my "needle in a haystack".
I just don't feel like spending hours in waiting rooms, arguing with gods,
and paying a lot money for nothing ;-)
Best wishes and I sincerely hope that you caught it in time to get it under
control..!
---
Jack
Jack In A Box
"Jennifer" <jennife...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:vXjRg.1727$o71...@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> It's a wonderful story of self discovery, hard work and success.
>
> Thanks for sharing it Jack... it's a keeper!
>
> Best of health to you always,
The same right back to you. You are another person which has greatly helped
me on my quest. I thank you too from the bottom of my heart..!
---
Jack
Witchy Way
under control..!
---
Jack>>
with help from this group i learned about the 5% club. my first A1C was
5.2!
i found my doctor by asking around. then i fought like hell thru a
referral from one of his patients to get in. worked
;-)
Michelle
particularly helpful to me. Please keep a hand in as you have time. The
newbies in particular need you.
--
Michelle, T2
diet & exercise
"Jack In A Box" <jacki...@alchemy.lu> wrote in message
news:45164d37$1...@news.vo.lu...
Michelle
>
> "Michelle" <bookb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:kjagu3-...@news.air-internet.com...
>
>> Very telling, impressive story. It takes guts to throw out the medical
>> advice, but your careful record keeping shows how it was exactly the
>> wrong thing for a T2 diabetic.
>
> I would suspect that this is the truth. In any case it seems it was the
> wrong thing for me and my metabolism. It does seem logical to me that if
> your body has problems with it's carbohydrate metabolism, it is a wise
> thing to change your nutrition in order to avoid high blood sugar with
> it's awful consequences...
Hi Jack,
I can honestly say that the high carb, low fat diet push was the wrong thing
for me too. I'm 42, but began suffering hypoglycemia in my mid-20's.
Despite working in the medical field (as a lab tech) and talking to several
doctors about the hypoglycemia, it was almost 10 years before I talked to
the right one--and that was just an offhand conversation at work. He clued
me in that the hypoglycemia was actually a predicator of diabetes. The
others only told me to eat more often, and acted unconcerned. About the
same time that this doctor (a pediatrician no less) gave me a push in the
right direction, I noticed that one of my lab tests--lipase, an indicator of
pancreatic destruction--was slightly high. I'd never seen only a slightly
high lipase in all of the patients I'd run the test on. It usually
skyrockets in patients with pancreatitis or is normal; no in between. So I
asked my doctor (new one) about it, and she asked if I had history of
diabetes in my family. When I confirmed it, she told me I was losing
pancreatic cells and would probably eventually become diabetic, and that had
I been overweight, I probably already would have been. She recommended a
"balanced" diet, primarily pushing the veggies and fruit. At least, she got
it partially right. But the medical mainstream kept pushing the whole
grains through the media, and so although I was eating whole wheat, it was
still way too many carbs.
Also, I know what you mean about eating carbs spiking your desire for carbs.
I felt that way all of my life. It's wonderful to be free of that feeling.
Jack In A Box
> I'm 42, but began suffering hypoglycemia in my mid-20's.
I don't think I've ever had this, I've been in the fifties occasionally but
feel no different. I do however remember how shaky I felt a couple of hours
after my OGTT. My blood sugar only descended from 306 to 80 mg/dl over 3
1/2 hours, but I felt real bad shaking and sweating. Not something I would
wish on anyone.
> I noticed that one of my lab tests--lipase, an indicator of pancreatic
> destruction--was slightly high.
Maybe you can comment on my values (I promise not to take it as medical
advice ;-)? I asked my doctor for a lipase/amylase test and they are listed
as in normal range, but I feel a bit leary to trust that at the moment...
Total amylase 53 IU/l should be < 105
Lipase 54 IU/l should be < 60
> Also, I know what you mean about eating carbs spiking your desire for
> carbs. I felt that way all of my life. It's wonderful to be free of that
> feeling.
I agree. If I eat the Lindt 85% chocolate I am OK with 2 squares with my
espresso in the afternoon, and a packet might last me a week. If I buy the
75% I am likely to eat all of it in one day, and find myself raiding the
fridge in the evening. And even though I don't have much carbs at home, I
seem to become creative and that greek yogurt might taste mightily fine with
some honey. Maybe even two servings would be in order...;-)
What I really like about having reduced my intake of refined carbs, are that
many things taste so much better. The occasional strawberry or peach taste
absolutely heavenly and in fact is nearly too sweet. I am also very happy
that I don't indulge in artificial sweeteners. It seems that doing so would
keep my sweet tooth alive, and I would not appreciate the 85% chocolate,
which is someting I wouldn't for the life of me have eaten a year ago.
---
Jack
Chris Malcolm
> "Loretta Eisenberg" <Ron...@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:271-4515...@storefull-3234.bay.webtv.net...
>> Just one thing, an a1c of 5.4 is absolutely goodl I dont know where you
>> got the information that 4.8 was normal.
>>
>> under 6 is good, Of course, the lower the better, but in the fives is
>> excellent
Statistically speaking, on average, usually, in most cases,
etc.. Unfortunately, sometimes averages are misleading, and some of us
aren't average.
> I don't know either anymore, but I do believe that around 4.8 is a truly
> nondiabetic number, in my opinion something for us T2s to strive for. I
> don't think there is an absolute correspondance, but the fact that I had
> beginning neuropathy in my autonomous nervous system with an a1c of 6% is
> food for thought for me.
When I was diagnosed I had already been following a lowered carb diet
for years because I thought I was wheat intolerant and had stopped
eating bread, pasta, biscuits, cake, etc.. My HbA1c at diagnosis was
5.6%, but my pp spikes often exceeded 200. While my HbA1c had been
5.6% or better I developed neuropathy in my feet, the beginnings of
neuropathy in my hands, itchy ankles and lower legs, loss of hair on
lower legs, some unexplained damage to the retina of my left eye,
increasing annoying floaters in both eyes, rising blood pressure,
rising weight and expanding waistline (while still of "normal"
weight), angina pectoris, frequent episodes of heart arrythmias, and
at least one heart attack.
After diagnosis, thanks to the advice of the good folk on asd, I
started lowish carbing and reducing my pp BG spikes. Once I got my pp
BG spikes to usually under about 155 all those symptoms mentioned
above (except the hair loss and retinal scarring) started
reducing. Some, like blood pressure, reduced only slightly. Some, like
neuropathy and itching, disappeared almost completely, only sticking
their heads up again temporarily if I stumble and hit some high BGs
again.
My HbA1c must be lower now. I don't know what it is now because it
hasn't been tested. I don't care, because if I developed all those
complications and slid from pre-diabetes into diabetes while in the 5%
club I don't place much faith in the prognostic value of being under
6% in my individual case.
Note that there are rare but possible personal quirks which can give
misleadingly high or low HbA1cs, such as the average life of your
blood cells. If that's unusual, then your HbA1c readings won't be
comparable with those cited in diabetic research papers. Note too that
HbA1c will only be a good indicator of high BG damage when that damage
occurs because of hard glycosylation. There are other possible
mechanisms of high BG damage, some of which don't require the
persisting high BGs necessary for glycosylation damage.
What matters to me, as I've discovered by personal experiment, is
keeping my pp BG spikes down and reducing my waistline. BTW, I don't
regard testing at one hour pp as necessarily testing for a BG
spike. It is testing for a BG spike if that's where your high spikes
are mostly to be found, and I believe that's where most T2 high BG
spikes are found. Most, not all. That question of averages again. Not
mine. Some of mine are at 40mins, and some at 90mins. I look for them
and reduce them wherever they are. I do that because I can, and it
makes me feel safer.
Putting my scientific hat on, averages are what you use in science
when you don't know what's going on and you simply have to grope along
in the dark with statistics. The virtue of statistical studies is that
they're better than nothing, and they allow you to improve the
population statistics. If one person dies and two get better that's a
good average and worth betting on. Shame about the non-average guy who
died.
I'm not average, and I'm not reassured by diagnostics based on
averages. Thank God for my BG meter, it actually measures my own real
personal individual BG! No need to read a book which says "most people
find this food doesn't raise their BGs too much" and make a bet that
I'm an average person. I can find out what really works for little
non-average me by using my BG meter. Keeping my BG spikes down has
improved so many measures of my health which used to worsening that I
have no doubt that keeping my BG spikes well down is very good for me.
--
Chris Malcolm c...@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
Alan S
<jacki...@alchemy.lu> wrote:
>
>What I really like about having reduced my intake of refined carbs, are that
>many things taste so much better. The occasional strawberry or peach taste
>absolutely heavenly and in fact is nearly too sweet. I am also very happy
>that I don't indulge in artificial sweeteners. It seems that doing so would
>keep my sweet tooth alive, and I would not appreciate the 85% chocolate,
>which is someting I wouldn't for the life of me have eaten a year ago.
I relate totally to that. I eat much less in volume, more in
variety, and savour what I do eat much more.
Cheers, Alan, T2, Australia.
d&e, metformin 1000mg, ezetrol 10mg
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
Trinkwasser
<loralgtwei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>"Post regularly on a.s.d/m.h.d, particularly to the
>newbies".
>
>They need you. I occasionally use the phrase "experience can
>be an expensive teacher". Your experience can help many
>others.
Let me echo Alan here.
Awesome story, excellent post.
Trinkwasser
wrote:
>W.M.McKee wrote:
>> Hi Jenny,
>>
>> By the way, please do not shy away from us here... some of us really,
>> really like having you around ! You have lots of good and valuable
>> info to share. :-)
>>
>
>Will,
>
>I just don't have the time or energy to plow through the reams of
>paranoid crap that has taken over what used to be a very helpful newsgroup.
>
>When I filter out threads infested by the people whose participation
>always ends useful dialog I end up with almost nothing left to read. The
>people who used to post useful information have mostly taken themselves
>elsewhere and mostly what I'm reading here reminds me of the old Monty
>Python "Argument" skit.
Sadly that's what so much of usenet has become.
But if you leave you're reducing the signal to noise considerably.
It's a bit like amputating a diseased foot then keeping the foot and
throwing away the patient. :P
The sad thing is there are probably only about half a dozen posters to
killfile (plus killing subthreads when they also become infected) the
rest of the group continues as always.
All their posts are agenda posts and if they succeed in their aim to
force you out then they're one step nearer to their goal which would
appear to be a group where no-one is permitted to post other than "eat
your carbs and do what your doctor says" which kinda defeats the
purpose of having a *discussion* group in the firt place, no?
>I'm enjoying the discussions at
>
>http://www.diabetes-book.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl
>
>where there are quite a few people with diabetes who post because they
>want to discuss ideas are eager to find out from others what has worked
>for them.
>
>Though that bbs is sponsored by Bernstein, the people posting there are
>using a variety of diets and techniques to control their sugars, not
>just the techniques he describes, and there is a welcoming attitude to
>anyone who wants to share what they've done to get by.
>
>A couple people from a.s.d have made their way over there. It's worth
>checking out.
Of course posting that here will guarantee the net nuisances follow
you over there. :(
>
>http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes Diabetes Info
>
>http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/newlydiagnosed.htm Get Your Blood
>Sugar Under Control
You should deputise someone (or several someones) to post these links
in their sig.
Of course you're going to do what you're going to do, but you have
helped me immensely and I know I'm not alone.
Michelle
> "Michelle" <bookb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:fq1ju3-...@news.air-internet.com...
>
>> I'm 42, but began suffering hypoglycemia in my mid-20's.
>
> I don't think I've ever had this, I've been in the fifties occasionally
> but feel no different. I do however remember how shaky I felt a couple of
> hours after my OGTT. My blood sugar only descended from 306 to 80 mg/dl
> over 3 1/2 hours, but I felt real bad shaking and sweating. Not something
> I would wish on anyone.
Me either! :-) For me, (and some of the others on this group) it was a
near daily occurence. And because I was eating what I *thought* was a
healthful diet, it took me forever to discover the triggers because it
seemed to be just about anything. Turns out, I was just eating a lot of
carbs, even though there was rarely any junkfood in the mix.
>
>
>> I noticed that one of my lab tests--lipase, an indicator of pancreatic
>> destruction--was slightly high.
>
> Maybe you can comment on my values (I promise not to take it as medical
> advice ;-)? I asked my doctor for a lipase/amylase test and they are
> listed as in normal range, but I feel a bit leary to trust that at the
> moment...
>
> Total amylase 53 IU/l should be < 105
> Lipase 54 IU/l should be < 60
Those are both good values. Whenever you can get a copy of your lab results
as you have done, they are usually fairly easy to interpret. If your
results fall within the normal range, then indeed they are normal. And with
these two tests--amylase and lipase--(unlike glucose) they are not going to
vary from minute to minute or hour to hour. For example if a person has
pancreatitis, the results of both of those tests could easily be anywhere
from 500 to 2000 IU/l. And since the pancreatitis takes time to recover
from, the results return to normal slowly. So you're looking at days for a
change in the results. There are very few lab tests that change
quickly--however glucose is one of them. While the pancreatitis is an
extreme case, the results did not change quickly in my case either. The
upper limit of normal in our lab was 200 IU/l (different instrumentation
causes the normal range to vary), and I was running about 300-350 IU/l. I
tested myself for several weeks in a row and it always remained within this
range. (I'd be very curious to see what it was doing now, but I'm no longer
working as a lab tech, so the test isn't as readily available to me as it
once was.) So, what I'm trying to say with my long-winded explanation, is
that when you see a result within normal range on a lab test, you don't have
to worry that they simply failed to test you at the right time in order to
catch an abnormal result--unless you are talking about glucose. :-)
>
>
>> Also, I know what you mean about eating carbs spiking your desire for
>> carbs. I felt that way all of my life. It's wonderful to be free of that
>> feeling.
>
> I agree. If I eat the Lindt 85% chocolate I am OK with 2 squares with my
> espresso in the afternoon, and a packet might last me a week. If I buy
> the 75% I am likely to eat all of it in one day, and find myself raiding
> the fridge in the evening. And even though I don't have much carbs at
> home, I seem to become creative and that greek yogurt might taste mightily
> fine with some honey. Maybe even two servings would be in order...;-)
>
> What I really like about having reduced my intake of refined carbs, are
> that many things taste so much better. The occasional strawberry or peach
> taste absolutely heavenly and in fact is nearly too sweet. I am also very
> happy that I don't indulge in artificial sweeteners. It seems that doing
> so would keep my sweet tooth alive, and I would not appreciate the 85%
> chocolate, which is someting I wouldn't for the life of me have eaten a
> year ago.
I know what you mean. One of my favorite deserts is cottage cheese with
strawberries or peaches. Plenty sweet for me. But the truth of the matter
is, I really don't care for sweet tasting foods all that well anymore.
natesh...@yahoo.com
I think you are very brave to post these words. I am glad that their
are people still in this world that can write about good. There should
be more people like you willing to stand up for what they believe in.
BlueBrooke
> I have to concur with the others Jenny. I count you among those who were
> particularly helpful to me. Please keep a hand in as you have time. The
> newbies in particular need you.
Same here -- thanks Jenny (and the rest of you -- you know who you are.)
Jack In A Box
> Those are both good values.
Thank you. I had come to the same conclusion, but it is difficult as an
audidact amateur endocrinologist ;-) to say with any surety what is good and
not, and how it might interact with other results.
> So, what I'm trying to say with my long-winded explanation, is that when
> you see a result within normal range on a lab test, you don't have to
> worry that they simply failed to test you at the right time in order to
> catch an abnormal result--unless you are talking about glucose. :-)
I wasn't really talking about that, I was more concerned that there might be
more poh-pohing going on with test results ;-)
As concerns an elevated FBG value. I have come to the conclusion that the
moment it rises above normal (>90 mg/dl), there might be any number of
things going wrong. Either the patient didn't fast, or it indicates a
problem with endogen glucose production (if the patient has truly fasted,
then the glucose must be from a source within the body). That is to say
that an elevated FBG indicates that the endocrine system has lost it's
ability to maintain euglycemia (balance) and is releasing glucose when it
should not be. This might apparently be due to a number of causes, among
others:
Impaired communication between alpha and beta cells in the pancreas.
Apparently the alpha cells do not have the ability to sense the level of
glucose in the blood, and rely on the beta cells to tell them when to stop
producing glycagon (a hormone which tells the liver and muscle tissue to
release glucose into the blood). This can occur when amyloid plaque builds
up in the pancreas.
The beta cells can not produce enough insulin to counteract the effect of
glycagon. Though it seems to me that in that case FBG would vary much in
the same way that postprandial values vary. I'm not sure I buy into this
explanation.
The liver and/or muscle tissue has lost it's ability to react properly to
insulin/glycagon.
The beta cells no longer react properly to an elevated blood sugar level.
IMHO something to take serious..! I can not help to think that this would
be the moment to take action, much in the way that it is smart to get your
car fixed when something breaks, and not to wait until the damage has
multiplied to other parts of your car.
Note the above discussion does not constitute medical information, only my
amateur musings.
---
Jack
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
It is the Holy Spirit that emboldens me. All the credit, praise, and
glory continues to belong to my Father in heaven.
Laus Deo !
Nicky
> The beta cells can not produce enough insulin to counteract the effect of
> glycagon. Though it seems to me that in that case FBG would vary much in
> the same way that postprandial values vary. I'm not sure I buy into this
> explanation.
Dawn Phenomenon used to bump my fbg up steadily until mid-morning, then it
used to subside - presumably as the liver vs. pancreas battle swung in
favour of the pancreas. Is that what you're thinking?
Nicky.
--
A1c 10.5/5.3/<6 T2 DX 05/2004
No Metformin, 100ug Thyroxine
95/72/72Kg
Roger Zoul
:: Alan S wrote:
:::
::: Keep in touch Jenny, even if only for the newbies.
:::
::: As we wander through life we come across some people we
::: like, many we learn from and a few we respect. We meet so
::: few that are all three.
:::
::: Thank you for being here when I needed you.
:::
::
:: Thanks. Your words mean a lot! You've got my email, so don't be a
:: stranger! I'll be keeping up with my blog too.
If you leave, we'll hunt you down! :)
Michelle
>
>> So, what I'm trying to say with my long-winded explanation, is that when
>> you see a result within normal range on a lab test, you don't have to
>> worry that they simply failed to test you at the right time in order to
>> catch an abnormal result--unless you are talking about glucose. :-)
>
> I wasn't really talking about that, I was more concerned that there might
> be more poh-pohing going on with test results ;-)
Understandable given your less than stellar experiences with the medical
profession. :-)
>
> As concerns an elevated FBG value. I have come to the conclusion that the
> moment it rises above normal (>90 mg/dl), there might be any number of
> things going wrong. Either the patient didn't fast, or it indicates a
> problem with endogen glucose production (if the patient has truly fasted,
> then the glucose must be from a source within the body). That is to say
> that an elevated FBG indicates that the endocrine system has lost it's
> ability to maintain euglycemia (balance) and is releasing glucose when it
> should not be. This might apparently be due to a number of causes, among
> others:
>
> Impaired communication between alpha and beta cells in the pancreas.
> Apparently the alpha cells do not have the ability to sense the level of
> glucose in the blood, and rely on the beta cells to tell them when to stop
> producing glycagon (a hormone which tells the liver and muscle tissue to
> release glucose into the blood). This can occur when amyloid plaque
> builds up in the pancreas.
Glucagon levels are largely determined by protein intake and the presence
of decreased carb intake--fasting states. It causes the release of glucose.
The presence of glucose inhibits glucagon release. At least that's the way
it *should* work. Are you suggesting a flaw here?
>
> The beta cells can not produce enough insulin to counteract the effect of
> glycagon. Though it seems to me that in that case FBG would vary much in
> the same way that postprandial values vary. I'm not sure I buy into this
> explanation.
>
> The liver and/or muscle tissue has lost it's ability to react properly to
> insulin/glycagon.
>
> The beta cells no longer react properly to an elevated blood sugar level.
>
> IMHO something to take serious..! I can not help to think that this would
> be the moment to take action, much in the way that it is smart to get your
> car fixed when something breaks, and not to wait until the damage has
> multiplied to other parts of your car.
Absolutely! And this goes back to your disgust with the way the doctors
dismissed your increasingly poor FBG readings. As you know, I lot of us
have similar stories, and given the outcry over the diabetes epidemic, it's
amazing that medicine is not being more proactive.
>
> Note the above discussion does not constitute medical information, only my
> amateur musings.
>
Ditto.
Chris Malcolm
> "Jack In A Box" <jacki...@alchemy.lu> wrote in message
> news:4518ec1a$1...@news.vo.lu...
>> As concerns an elevated FBG value. I have come to the conclusion that the
>> moment it rises above normal (>90 mg/dl), there might be any number of
>> things going wrong. Either the patient didn't fast, or it indicates a
>> problem with endogen glucose production (if the patient has truly fasted,
>> then the glucose must be from a source within the body). That is to say
>> that an elevated FBG indicates that the endocrine system has lost it's
>> ability to maintain euglycemia (balance) and is releasing glucose when it
>> should not be. This might apparently be due to a number of causes, among
>> others:
>>
>> Impaired communication between alpha and beta cells in the pancreas.
>> Apparently the alpha cells do not have the ability to sense the level of
>> glucose in the blood, and rely on the beta cells to tell them when to stop
>> producing glycagon (a hormone which tells the liver and muscle tissue to
>> release glucose into the blood). This can occur when amyloid plaque
>> builds up in the pancreas.
I've no idea why, but usually if I test my morning fbg 12 hours after
eating it's 100-110, sometimes higher, but after 14 hours it's usually
90-100, sometimes lower. So given that I often eat dinner at 9pm, and
sometimes have a late night snack, the time of my morning appointment
with the doctor has a critical effect on the values he sees.
Given the amount of noise we've all seen in BG readings the fact that
many doctors take the view that a reading of x-1% means "you're ok"
and a reading of x+1% means a diagnosis worries me.
>> The beta cells no longer react properly to an elevated blood sugar level.
>>
>> IMHO something to take serious..! I can not help to think that this would
>> be the moment to take action, much in the way that it is smart to get your
>> car fixed when something breaks, and not to wait until the damage has
>> multiplied to other parts of your car.
> Absolutely! And this goes back to your disgust with the way the doctors
> dismissed your increasingly poor FBG readings. As you know, I lot of us
> have similar stories, and given the outcry over the diabetes epidemic, it's
> amazing that medicine is not being more proactive.
Don't forget that if they were more proactive, the diabetes epidemic
would look a lot worse, and these days a lot of people in positions of
authority are much more concerned with how things look than how they
are.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Michelle <bookb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > "Jack In A Box" <jacki...@alchemy.lu> wrote in message
> > news:4518ec1a$1...@news.vo.lu...
>
> >> As concerns an elevated FBG value. I have come to the conclusion that the
> >> moment it rises above normal (>90 mg/dl), there might be any number of
> >> things going wrong. Either the patient didn't fast, or it indicates a
> >> problem with endogen glucose production (if the patient has truly fasted,
> >> then the glucose must be from a source within the body). That is to say
> >> that an elevated FBG indicates that the endocrine system has lost it's
> >> ability to maintain euglycemia (balance) and is releasing glucose when it
> >> should not be. This might apparently be due to a number of causes, among
> >> others:
> >>
> >> Impaired communication between alpha and beta cells in the pancreas.
> >> Apparently the alpha cells do not have the ability to sense the level of
> >> glucose in the blood, and rely on the beta cells to tell them when to stop
> >> producing glycagon (a hormone which tells the liver and muscle tissue to
> >> release glucose into the blood). This can occur when amyloid plaque
> >> builds up in the pancreas.
>
> I've no idea why, but usually if I test my morning fbg 12 hours after
> eating it's 100-110, sometimes higher, but after 14 hours it's usually
> 90-100, sometimes lower. So given that I often eat dinner at 9pm, and
> sometimes have a late night snack, the time of my morning appointment
> with the doctor has a critical effect on the values he sees.
The amount you eat for dinner +/- late night snack will also determine
what you FBG will be ay your doctor's office.
Why not befriend your hunger and choose not to have the late night
snack ?
> Given the amount of noise we've all seen in BG readings the fact that
> many doctors take the view that a reading of x-1% means "you're ok"
> and a reading of x+1% means a diagnosis worries me.
It is a concern.
> >> The beta cells no longer react properly to an elevated blood sugar level.
> >>
> >> IMHO something to take serious..! I can not help to think that this would
> >> be the moment to take action, much in the way that it is smart to get your
> >> car fixed when something breaks, and not to wait until the damage has
> >> multiplied to other parts of your car.
>
> > Absolutely! And this goes back to your disgust with the way the doctors
> > dismissed your increasingly poor FBG readings. As you know, I lot of us
> > have similar stories, and given the outcry over the diabetes epidemic, it's
> > amazing that medicine is not being more proactive.
>
> Don't forget that if they were more proactive, the diabetes epidemic
> would look a lot worse, and these days a lot of people in positions of
> authority are much more concerned with how things look than how they
> are.
The diabetes epidemic is following the obesity epidemic. Both are a
lot worse than how they are being currently portrayed.
May GOD continue to heal your heart by curing your diabetes, dear
neighbor Chris whom I love unconditionally.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung
Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit
As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies
(Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/a77da2d26da0ab97?
> --
Jack In A Box
"Nicky" <ukc802...@btconnect.com> wrote in message
news:4nt7iaF...@individual.net...
>
> "Jack In A Box" <jacki...@alchemy.lu> wrote in message
> news:4518ec1a$1...@news.vo.lu...
>> The beta cells can not produce enough insulin to counteract the effect of
>> glycagon. Though it seems to me that in that case FBG would vary much in
>> the same way that postprandial values vary. I'm not sure I buy into this
>> explanation.
>
> Dawn Phenomenon used to bump my fbg up steadily until mid-morning, then it
> used to subside - presumably as the liver vs. pancreas battle swung in
> favour of the pancreas. Is that what you're thinking?
I realize that I did not post very clearly, and I think I should refrain
from posting my amateur musings on medical matters ;-)
It seems to me that the pancreas releases glycagon, which in turns
stimulates glucose release. When adequate glucose is present in the blood,
the beta cells would communicate this to the alfa cells which would stop
releasing glycagon. And even if there is some extra glycagon in the blood,
the insulin release should take of it relatively quickly. Blood sugar
should not continue to rise or be high for several hours.
---
Jack
Jack In A Box
>> Apparently the alpha cells do not have the ability to sense the level of
>> glucose in the blood, and rely on the beta cells to tell them when to
>> stop
>> producing glycagon (a hormone which tells the liver and muscle tissue to
>> release glucose into the blood). This can occur when amyloid plaque
>> builds up in the pancreas.
>
> Glucagon levels are largely determined by protein intake and the presence
> of decreased carb intake--fasting states. It causes the release of
> glucose.
> The presence of glucose inhibits glucagon release. At least that's the
> way it *should* work. Are you suggesting a flaw here?
I realize that I don't know how the alpha cells "know" or are prompted to
release glycagon, but I am sure that I've read peer rewieved articles
explaining that they are signaled by the beta cells to stop releasing
glycagon. I've also read articles explaining the communication problem in
case of amyloid plaque build up.
---
Jack
Jack In A Box
"Chris Malcolm" <c...@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:4nupf6F...@individual.net...
> Don't forget that if they were more proactive, the diabetes epidemic
> would look a lot worse, and these days a lot of people in positions of
> authority are much more concerned with how things look than how they
> are.
You are not seriously implying that the the powers that be are ignoring our
problem in the same way that they are ignoring environmental changes?
<rhetorical question>
What a sad world where people ignore their fellow beings and offspring for
short term personal gain..;-( If I was a vengeful person I might wish
diabetic complications on them...
---
Jack
Trinkwasser
<jacki...@alchemy.lu> wrote:
>
>"Chris Malcolm" <c...@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote in message
>news:4nupf6F...@individual.net...
>
>> Don't forget that if they were more proactive, the diabetes epidemic
>> would look a lot worse, and these days a lot of people in positions of
>> authority are much more concerned with how things look than how they
>> are.
ZZZING!!!
>You are not seriously implying that the the powers that be are ignoring our
>problem in the same way that they are ignoring environmental changes?
><rhetorical question>
>
>What a sad world where people ignore their fellow beings and offspring for
>short term personal gain..;-( If I was a vengeful person I might wish
>diabetic complications on them...
They can afford treatment.
Mr. Natural-Health
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> snack ?
Excuse me, but YOU don't have a story.
Jesus owns the story, NOT you.
Just thought that the fool might want to know.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > Why not befriend your hunger and choose not to have the late night
> > snack ?
>
> Excuse me, but YOU don't have a story.
Actually, I do. However the story for this thread belongs to another:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.diabetes/msg/34754935a6b8d73f
My response to Jack:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/7b5ebce36f904cea?
> Jesus owns the story, NOT you.
Actually, I owe LORD Jesus Christ my life.
> Just thought that the fool might want to know.
Name-calling simply shows that you are lost.
May GOD continue to keep your heart beating, dear neighbor John whom I
Mr. Natural-Health
> Mr. Natural-Health wrote:
> > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > Why not befriend your hunger and choose not to have the late night
> > > snack ?
> >
> > Excuse me, but YOU don't have a story.
>
> Actually, I do. However the story for this thread belongs to another:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.diabetes/msg/34754935a6b8d73f
>
> My response to Jack:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/7b5ebce36f904cea?
>
> > Jesus owns the story, NOT you.
>
> Actually, I owe LORD Jesus Christ my life.
>
> > Just thought that the fool might want to know.
>
> Name-calling simply shows that you are lost.
Gee, I have caught you both in the act of lying and name calling, Mr.
Liar.
Furthermore, you really need to get your story straight, Mr. Fraud.
You have, thus, earned the title of fool, Fool!
Just thought that you might want to know that your Jesus act ain't
fooling anybody.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > Mr. Natural-Health wrote:
> > > Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > Why not befriend your hunger and choose not to have the late night
> > > > snack ?
> > >
> > > Excuse me, but YOU don't have a story.
> >
> > Actually, I do. However the story for this thread belongs to another:
> >
> > http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.diabetes/msg/34754935a6b8d73f
> >
> > My response to Jack:
> >
> > http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/7b5ebce36f904cea?
> >
> > > Jesus owns the story, NOT you.
> >
> > Actually, I owe LORD Jesus Christ my life.
> >
> > > Just thought that the fool might want to know.
> >
> > Name-calling simply shows that you are lost.
>
> Gee, I have caught you both in the act of lying and name calling, Mr.
> Liar.
It seems you are gazing into a mirror and holding a conversation with
the image you are seeing.
> Furthermore, you really need to get your story straight, Mr. Fraud.
> You have, thus, earned the title of fool, Fool!
Again, name-calling simply shows that you remain lost.
> Just thought that you might want to know that your Jesus act ain't
> fooling anybody.
Without the LORD, your thoughts are meaningless (Ecclesiastes).
May GOD continue to keep your heart beating, dear neigbor John whom I
Text Medium No. 5
jabbered inanely:
He's right, though. You aren't fooling anybody(tina).
--
Shon'ai COOSN-029-06-71069
"I was told there would be cookies."
Cross-Poasters For Goddess!
Remember: Straight people can't help it!
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Without the LORD, your beliefs are meaningless (Ecclesiastes).
> You aren't fooling anybody(tina).
The LORD's purpose for me here remains to inform and not to either
convince or "fool" anybody.
May GOD continue to keep your heart beating, dear neighbor whom I love
David R. Throop
Witchy Way <witc...@webtv.net> wrote:
>Never trust the certified diabetic educator. they have no clue & will
>lead you down the garden path with carb laden diets.
There are some very good ones out there -
"Trust, but verify."
DRT
sarvan
On Sep 23, 8:03 pm, Jennifer <jenniferNOS...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> It's a wonderful story of self discovery, hard work and success.
>
> Thanks for sharing it Jack... it's a keeper!
>
> Best of health to you always,
>
> Jennifer9840548863