Neo-Pagan 'Magick'
Evergreen
Neo-pagans are magicians in the same way that they
are environmentalists: Because they say they are.
But are they really environmentalists? No. Their ecological
footprints aren't any smaller than the people they look
down their noses at who don't claim to be environmentalists.
In fact, they are often considerably larger. And the ecological
footprint of the average Westerner is many times that of the
global average to begin with.
And are the neo-pagans really magicians? No. Their so-called
'magick' is purely theatrical. It accomplishes nothing but
the illusion of magick.
Here's an example:
http://wiccalessons.wordpress.com/tag/the-magick-circle/
This supposed 'magick circle' is a crock. There's nothing
magickal about it. It does absolutely nothing. There is
nothing within it that is any different from the space
outside of it.
The idea that you can be a magician just by saying you
are is absurd.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=merlin+wicca&btnG=Google+Search
merlin wicca
302,000 hits
Merlin, much extolled and supposedly emulated by neo-pagans of all
sorts, spent most of his life in solitary study of magick.
But the neo-pagans think they can do what he did just by saying
they are magicians and buying some junk (that's supposedly
magickal) and performing some theatrical rituals that any 1st
grader could do a good job of performing.
We are looking at a level of delusion that is almost comical.
But what can one expect from psuedo-religions created
by amateur scholars from snippets of history, anthropology,
legend, myth, and a whole lot of pure fiction?
Like Wicca:
http://www.bcholmes.org/wicca/gardner.html
If you want to run around in the woods with a bunch of people
and wear weird clothing and say weird things and pretend that
you are doing magick and are spiritually evolved, then become a
neo-pagan.
These are the perfect 'religions' for spoiled and lazy and
dishonest people who aren't willing to do any real work to
achieve anything but want to believe, and want other people
to believe, that they have accomplished something.
If you want to learn magick, you can start by reading the
articles here:
And the next time a neo-pagan or ceremonial magician threatens
to harm you with magick, simply laugh at them. That's all the
protection you need from the supposed 'magick' of these clowns.
Sid
--
Wiccan 'Priest' and Apprentice Magician
http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
sarchasm
>
> [...]
>
> The idea that you can be a magician just by saying you are is absurd.
>
"Sid -- Wiccan 'Priest' and Apprentice Magician"
>
> We are looking at a level of delusion that is almost comical.
>
That's because some "sid"-sock keeps crossposting his self-delusions around.
[crossposts retained only for context relevancy and will be snipped after
this]
Tom
> Neo-Pagan 'Magick'
>
> Neo-pagans are magicians in the same way that they
> are environmentalists: Because they say they are.
And you know what neo-pagans are because you say you do.
> And are the neo-pagans really magicians? No. Their so-called
> 'magick' is purely theatrical. It accomplishes nothing but
> the illusion of magick.
And what do you think "real" magick accomplishes?
> This supposed 'magick circle' is a crock. There's nothing
> magickal about it. It does absolutely nothing. There is
> nothing within it that is any different from the space
> outside of it.
I'm sorry to ask such a silly question, but how is the space inside
any magick circle different from the space outside it? It's all just
space. The only difference between space here and space there is what
we choose to call "here" and "there".
> The idea that you can be a magician just by saying you
> are is absurd.
Then again, there's no reason you can't be a magician just because
some guy on the internet says you're not.
An Coibhi Drui
Magicians are exotic people to start with - you can't just start out
as a "normal" person, living a normal life and become a magician.
Magicians are entirely different people to start with, and it is the
space around a magician that is special. Wicca commenced with the idea
that everybody can practice magick, that it is a skill, to be learned
and practised, just like fishing or computer programming - that is
not so. A magical person has a mystique about him or her that attracts
people - or even repels them !
All modern books on Magick are useless, most written to make a bit of
money, their writers' reputation, or just out of folly. But there are
old tomes if you know them and where they are...
Cheers,
Michael.
Tom
wrote:
> On Feb 8, 1:00 am, Tom <danto...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 7, 3:08 pm, Evergreen <sidneyla...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
> > > The idea that you can be a magician just by saying you
> > > are is absurd.
>
> > Then again, there's no reason you can't be a magician just because
> > some guy on the internet says you're not.
>
> Magicians are exotic people to start with - you can't just start out
> as a "normal" person, living a normal life and become a magician.
Who told you that? Why did you believe them?
> Magicians are entirely different people to start with,
Every real, live human being is an entirely different person.
> and it is the
> space around a magician that is special.
Special in what way?
> Wicca commenced with the idea
> that everybody can practice magick, that it is a skill, to be learned
> and practised, just like fishing or computer programming - that is
> not so. A magical person has a mystique about him or her that attracts
> people - or even repels them !
Or makes them fail to be noticed at all. Or taken for something else
entirely. There's no telling for sure.
> All modern books on Magick are useless,
At least they're useless if you just want to make stuff up as you go
along. Nothing is as inconvenient to the free flight of imagination
than having to abide by what somebody else says.
> But there are
> old tomes if you know them and where they are...
And they're SECRET of course... It's always amusing to watch poseurs
announce to everyone about all the secrets they keep. It always turns
out that the "secrets" turn out to be either complete bullshit or
common knowledge.
Troigan Tho
I have been monitoring the neo-pagan newsgroups and their web forums
and pages for quite a while now. Never once have I seen any evidence
that any of these people can do anything magickal. It is, as you say,
all theater. They are play acting and pretending that their play
acting is real.
This ren person is a perfect example of the typical neo-pagan
faux magician I have encountered so many of in the last months.
You listen to them and after a while you start to believe that
they can turn lead into gold and make people fall madly in love
with them and strike their enemies down from afar and command
all sorts of supernatural beings to do their bidding.
Then time passes and it becomes clear that they can't do anything but talk.
They want to be magicians but they aren't and they can't figure out why
because all the books and websites tell them that they should be, that
all they have to do is follow the recipes.
You would think that it would occur to them that if that's all
there was to it that the world would be run by what they think of
as magicians by now. After all, everything they are reading has
been around for hundreds of years.
I am not sure if what you are saying is the truth, but at least
it is logically consistent and in everyday English so it is
possible understand it and to test it. And you are not making
ridiculous claims and pretending to know great mysterious secrets
that you just cannot tell. I will try. Thank you.
Tho
sarchasm
> "Evergreen <sidne...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> The idea that you can be a magician just by saying you are is absurd.
>
> And you are not making
> ridiculous claims and pretending to know great mysterious secrets
> that you just cannot tell.
>
>
No, he's not making ridiculous claims that his "teacher" can "teleport, read
minds" and violate some unspecified physical 'laws'. Certainly not, you
obvious shill.
Hope
>
> at least
> it is logically consistent and in everyday English so it is
> possible understand it and to test it. And you are not making
> ridiculous claims and pretending to know great mysterious secrets
> that you just cannot tell. I will try. Thank you.
>
> Tho
Um...yes he is. He claims to know a mysterious teacher who can
teleport and read his mind, but he can't reveal anything more, 'cause
it's a big secret. He claims he made himself a Wicca priest in one
day. He claims he is an expert in numerous subjects and the ultimate
arbiter of Truth. He claims all sorts of knowledge that cannot be
tested. How much more ridiculous do you want?
Oh yeah...there is one more thing. "People" mysteriously pop up to
support him, claiming that they have been monitoring the situation or
searching for someone to show them the way. I see someone's socks have
been changed. It must be wash day. *rolling my eyes*
sarchasm
> "Troigan Tho" <per...@place.invalid> shilled:
Those darn socks need darning.
sarchasm
>
[shill available on shill-per-view]
By the way, Jack 'n Jill; when running your dog and pony shill show, you
might want to omit the crossposts. They come across as a contrived set-up
for the subsequent shilling.
Hope
>
> Oh yeah...there is one more thing. "People" mysteriously pop up to
> support him, claiming that they have been monitoring the situation or
> searching for someone to show them the way. I see someone's socks have
> been changed. It must be wash day. *rolling my eyes*
>
>
>
> Those darn socks need darning.
K...SOCKS, I DARN THEE!! I DARN THEE TO THE DEEPEST DEPTHS OF THE
DARKEST, DANKEST HAMPER, THERE TO LANGUISH IN MILDEW ETERNALLY!
There, will that do?
sarchasm
> "sarchasm" <sar.ch...@yahoo.com> wrote:
It's a worthy thought but, the feet in the socks are just as stinky as they
were before. ;>
Evergreen
> On Feb 8, 7:51=A0pm, Troigan Tho <per...@place.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> at least
>> it is logically consistent and in everyday English so it is
>> possible understand it and to test it. And you are not making
>> ridiculous claims and pretending to know great mysterious secrets
>> that you just cannot tell. I will try. Thank you.
>>
>> Tho
>
> Um...yes he is. He claims to know a mysterious teacher who can
> teleport and read his mind,
No. He doesn't teleport, to my knowledge. And I never said he did
or claimed he could.
He certainly can read my mind. But he is not the only person
I've met who can do that.
This is one of ren's supporters. Like him, they have no morals at
all. They lie like they breathe.
> but he can't reveal anything more, 'cause it's a big secret.
No. Just respecting my teacher's privacy.
> He claims he made himself a Wicca priest in one
> day.
No. Another lie. I studied up on the initiation ritual for days.
The ritual itself takes considerably less than a day.
It is childishly simple.
> He claims he is an expert in numerous subjects
No.
> and the ultimate
> arbiter of Truth.
No.
> He claims all sorts of knowledge that cannot be
> tested.
No.
> How much more ridiculous do you want?
He'd like honesty more than anything else.
At least that would be my guess.
>
> Oh yeah...there is one more thing. "People" mysteriously pop up to
> support him, claiming that they have been monitoring the situation or
> searching for someone to show them the way. I see someone's socks have
> been changed. It must be wash day. *rolling my eyes*
Now I know why I don't usually read this person's posts.
How could this be anyone but ren?
Can there be two viciously mean and stupid pathological liars on
the same newsgroup at the same time?
Hope
> Hope <holleratwal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Feb 8, 7:51=A0pm, Troigan Tho <per...@place.invalid> wrote:
>
> >> at least
> >> it is logically consistent and in everyday English so it is
> >> possible understand it and to test it. And you are not making
> >> ridiculous claims and pretending to know great mysterious secrets
> >> that you just cannot tell. I will try. Thank you.
>
> >> Tho
>
> > Um...yes he is. He claims to know a mysterious teacher who can
> > teleport and read his mind,
>
> No. He doesn't teleport, to my knowledge. And I never said he did
> or claimed he could.
Oh I'm sorry, was that your neighbors you claimed teleported to South
America? My bad.
>
> He certainly can read my mind. But he is not the only person
> I've met who can do that.
It shouldn't be hard, considering the level of the material.
>
> This is one of ren's supporters. Like him, they have no morals at
> all. They lie like they breathe.
I'm not a supporter of ren. I just don't like YOU. There is a big
difference. But people lacking in social skills often can't make such
distinctions. They remain stuck in the pre-school mindset of "If
you're my friend you have to like everything I like and hate
everything I hate!"
I tried to be congenial to you when I first started posting here, and
the first thing you did was announce that I HAVE to be a rotten person
because I'm an American. Simple as that, in your narrow world. It
only went downhill from there. You have no one to blame for that one
but yourself and your smug, arrogant, and unearned sense of
superiority. Your hypocrisy is truly astounding. I have rarely seen
its like.
>
> > but he can't reveal anything more, 'cause it's a big secret.
>
> No. Just respecting my teacher's privacy.
But ren doesn't have the right to respect his own privacy, right? HE
should post all his personal data for you. And you have a right to
hire a PI to dig into his personal life. Hypocrite.
>
> > He claims he made himself a Wicca priest in one
> > day.
>
> No. Another lie. I studied up on the initiation ritual for days.
Oooo, days! Wow, that's impressive. You must know it all then.
>
> The ritual itself takes considerably less than a day.
As I said...
>
> > He claims he is an expert in numerous subjects
>
> No.
Oh yes.
>
> > and the ultimate
> > arbiter of Truth.
>
> No.
Yes. You claim to know what all Wiccans *really* think, in spite of
what they say. And you claim to know what beliefs are and aren't true
for everyone on the planet. We've all seen it, again and again, ad
nauseum.
>
> > He claims all sorts of knowledge that cannot be
> > tested.
>
> No.
>
Yes.
>
> He'd like honesty more than anything else.
>
> At least that would be my guess.
Riiiight.
>
> Now I know why I don't usually read this person's posts.
Because you're an intellectual coward, that's why.
>
> How could this be anyone but ren?
Could be and is. Go to alt . sports . football . pro . oak-raiders
and ask the regulars there. Many of them have been to my house and
can verify that I am indeed a green-eyed, blonde female. But you
won't do it...'cause it would mess up your fantasy. Believe us, there
are MANY people here who think you're a big bag of hot air besides
just ren.
>
> Can there be two viciously mean and stupid pathological liars on
> the same newsgroup at the same time?
>
*LMAO* Because of your vast personal experience, you actually ARE the
expert on that topic. And I'd love to see how you convince yourself
that *my* post was vicious while yours are not. Double standard much?
Now go tell your mommy the mean stupid lady is picking on her widdle
boy again. :-(
Evergreen
I see that you have been observing the neo-pagan crowd with an
open and discerning mind, Tho. I am impressed.
Now down to business. Magick is about expanding one's awareness
more than anything else. This begins with basic meditation and
becoming more aware of the dream universe:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/18ce6dbcc93cd2dc
On the practical level, magick is used to improve your own
quality of life (not slaying people who insult you on the
internet :-).
This requires only simple spell reading and casting once you
realize that you are a magickal being living in a magickal
universe, and meditation will take you to that awakening if you
are disciplined about it.
Troigan Tho
All I can say is that I will give it a try, Sidney. Because a
little voice inside me has been telling me for a long time that
magick is the key and because what you have to say makes more
sense than anything else I've read on the subject.
About mind reading. There is a person in my life that I have
long suspected of being able to read minds, though they hide
it very well. But you cannot lie to this person or deceive
them in any way and they know what you really have on your
mind at all times. It took me years to come to this conclusion
because it is the only one that fits and very hard to accept.
"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains,
however improbable, must be the truth." Sherlock Holmes.
Tho
odubh...@gmail.com
You'd better be careful. This person has powerfully been "monitoring
neopagan news groups and forums for a while now."
This gives then incredible power and authority to make judgments and
other statements to change the face of Arakis.
I will now return to my own monitoring of the neopagan news groups and
forums, thereby magnifying my own powers enormously.
Searles O'Dubhain
ren
> No. Another lie. I studied up on the initiation ritual for days.
No, if you had really studied up on a variety of self-initiation
rituals into the religion of Wicca, you would have waited one year and
one day. You would have waited to insure that this religion was for
you or not.
> The ritual itself takes considerably less than a day.
>
> It is childishly simple.
There are a variety of self-initiation rituals. You quoted one of
them.
> No.
> No.
> No.
Everyone, looks like our dear friend Sar is making Sidney poop in his
britches.
> How could this be anyone but ren?
Naturally. Ren is legion. Who is the Ren ? ? ?
> Can there be two viciously mean and stupid pathological liars on
> the same newsgroup at the same time?
Have you ever visited Alt.Slack ? , Alt.Discorida ? , or
Alt.Kibology ? ,
ren
> "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains,
> however improbable, must be the truth." Sherlock Holmes.
>
> Tho
I just read that in a book called "The Three Investigators Mystery of
the Whispering Mummy."
You must also know who can read minds!
You know. It might not always be mind reading. Someone could be
implanting thoughts into mind readers.
Noinden
> Neo-Pagan 'Magick'
>
> Neo-pagans are magicians in the same way that they
> are environmentalists: Because they say they are.
>
> But are they really environmentalists? No. Their ecological
> footprints aren't any smaller than the people they look
> down their noses at who don't claim to be environmentalists.
> In fact, they are often considerably larger. And the ecological
> footprint of the average Westerner is many times that of the
Show proof.
> And are the neo-pagans really magicians? No. Their so-called
> 'magick' is purely theatrical. It accomplishes nothing but
Show proof.
Oh and again you are using an awful lot of WICCA there and saying it
is Neopagan. Learn what words mean. THEN come talk to us.
So come now talk of Neopagan Druidry, Asatruar, Shaman, Bachinnnians,
CR, etc if you are going to talk Neopagan. But to continue to attack
Wicca, shows you are obsessed and hyper focused.
Noinden
> Neo-Pagan 'Magick'
> Here's an example:
>
> http://wiccalessons.wordpress.com/tag/the-magick-circle/
>
> This supposed 'magick circle' is a crock. There's nothing
> magickal about it. It does absolutely nothing. There is
> nothing within it that is any different from the space
> outside of it.
>
> The idea that you can be a magician just by saying you
> are is absurd.
Not all Neopagans raise circles. CR's and many Neopagan Druids and
Heathens find the sacred rather than create it. It's culturally
correct for the Gaelic paths. While if one was on the Gaulish... one
would raise a circle.
Evergreen
Tho. This person is most likely a very advanced magician.
If you are diligent in your studies they will probably reveal
this fact to you and adopt you as a student.
Theoneflasehaddock
>
> All I can say is that I will give it a try, Sidney. Because a
> little voice inside me has been telling me for a long time that
> magick is the key and because what you have to say makes more
> sense than anything else I've read on the subject.
Key's aren't magick. They're shaped metal.
>
> About mind reading. There is a person in my life that I have
> long suspected of being able to read minds, though they hide
> it very well. But you cannot lie to this person or deceive
> them in any way and they know what you really have on your
> mind at all times. It took me years to come to this conclusion
> because it is the only one that fits and very hard to accept.
Your lies might be defective. Or it could be you.
>
> "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains,
> however improbable, must be the truth." Sherlock Holmes.
>
I don't think you've eliminated the impossible. I don't think you've
eliminated the really stupid explanations, either. So it's probably
one of them.
Theoneflasehaddock
Um, for the past year alt.discordia's only had 1 regular poster, and
he's mentally ill.
Theoneflasehaddock
Yes. You should stalk them.
Hope
*straight face #9* Thank you for taking time from your enormous
magnifying tasks to post this. I really appreciate it. I hope
switching from monitoring to posting did not drain too much of your
power. Warning duly noted and taken to heart. ;-)
sarchasm
with his dog-and-pony-show:
[crossposted trolling available on troll-per-view]
> "Troigan Tho" <shill#2...@place.invalid> obviously shilled:
>> "Evergreen" <sidneysacri...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
> I see that you have been observing the neo-pagan crowd with an
> open and discerning mind, Tho. I am impressed.
>
While others, (who can read), see an obvious shill dog-and-pony show for
what it is and remain unimpressed.
>
> Now down to business.
>
Which is, of course, not using a shill post to pretend
Evergreen-behind-the-ears isn't trolling.
sarchasm
> "Evergreen" <sidne...@nospam.invalid> kept trolling:
>
[crossposted bullshit available on troll-per-view, for those who can
suppress the gag-reflex]
Do you two idiots actually expect this nonsensensical shill-and-pony act to
be believable?
Alrah
wrote:
> On Feb 9, 5:28 am, Troigan Tho <per...@place.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>
> > All I can say is that I will give it a try, Sidney. Because a
> > little voice inside me has been telling me for a long time that
> > magick is the key and because what you have to say makes more
> > sense than anything else I've read on the subject.
>
> Key's aren't magick. They're shaped metal.
>
>
>
> > About mind reading. There is a person in my life that I have
> > long suspected of being able to read minds, though they hide
> > it very well. But you cannot lie to this person or deceive
> > them in any way and they know what you really have on your
> > mind at all times. It took me years to come to this conclusion
> > because it is the only one that fits and very hard to accept.
Heh. You've met my Grandma then? :D
Bassos
"Evergreen" <sidne...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:9pv566x...@magick.net...
> Troigan Tho <per...@place.invalid> wrote:
>
>> About mind reading. There is a person in my life that I have
>> long suspected of being able to read minds, though they hide
>> it very well. But you cannot lie to this person or deceive
>> them in any way and they know what you really have on your
>> mind at all times. It took me years to come to this conclusion
>> because it is the only one that fits and very hard to accept.
So you neglected to look at cold-reading.
Did you know that face reading to determine disease used to be practised ?
(i will leave it up to you how you interpret this)
>> "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains,
>> however improbable, must be the truth." Sherlock Holmes.
>
> Tho. This person is most likely a very advanced magician.
Some people, hell, almost all people wear their feelings.
It is pretty much always in the face, but often also in the composure.
> If you are diligent in your studies they will probably reveal
> this fact to you and adopt you as a student.
Signs for lying :
The eyes look to :
A : right
B : down-rigth
C : down
D : down-left
E : left
F : up-left
G : up
H : up-right
Why do they do that ?
A : They try to fool observers
B : They try to remember a story
C : They try to come up with a completely new story
D : They select a preremembered answer
E : They look to multiple sides cos first they remember that they are being
monitored, then know that eye movement is something valid, then remember
something for this purpose, then consider the question, then forcefully move
the eyes in a preordained order, then know what the response will be without
considering the actual answer.
Match the letters :?
Hope
> "Evergreen" <sidneyla...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
So pretty much, anyone who is not looking straight ahead is lying?
*LOL* I guess that would be most human beings, most of the time. And
that may be accurate, especially if you take the psychopaths who do
not have normal responses into consideration.
Do you watch that new t.v. show, Lie to Me? I've never seen it, but
the main character is supposed to be an expert at spotting liars.
An Coibhi Drui
The very best liars look you straight in the eyes ! Politicians :-)
An Coibhi Drui
wrote:
It is also known to Police Departments worldwide that the greatest of
criminals always look a detective straight in the eye as they spin
their lies, alibis and excuses.
Cheers,
Michael.
Alrah
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yes, but they hold the gaze too long and tension shows in the rest of
their body and thier face. It's agressive. People telling the truth
are usually relaxed. The most difficult thing to tell is someone who
believes they are telling the truth but fear the other won't believe
them - causing them tension as they respond to the agressive body
language of the person who is doubting them. That's extremely
difficult to distinguish from a person who is lying. The cues are
subtly different, especially if the person telling the truth has a
stake in telling the truth.
If you are without experience in distinguishing the subtelties then
you can always walk straight towards them as close as possible (better
if they are sitting) and get nose to nose to them looking them
directly in the eyes for a few seconds and then back off, still
staring at them and wait. The invasion of body space and the panic
will either cause them to break down and admit their anxiety but
insist upon their truth, or they will try to make an immediate escape
or attack you.
It's a bit risky, but in certain situations you have to have absolute
trust in someone, when they don't even trust themselves or are all at
sea in an unfamiliar situation.
Ato_Zee
> > The very best liars
Believe their lies, to them it's the truth.
Bassos
"Hope" <hollera...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5b8b24a7-3332-45cd...@j35g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
:::::********
So pretty much, anyone who is not looking straight ahead is lying?
*LOL* I guess that would be most human beings, most of the time. And
that may be accurate, especially if you take the psychopaths who do
not have normal responses into consideration.
Do you watch that new t.v. show, Lie to Me? I've never seen it, but
the main character is supposed to be an expert at spotting liars.
********************
I see you did not answer the question.
stonehengeio
wrote:
"Politicians !" no way, they are not even good liars
let alone the very best.
They are also rubbish at being "economical with the truth"
and often cannot remember if they are supposed to lie or
tell the truth at any given moment.GriN
what makes Politicians appear to be good lie/r is an audience that
will not,
or cannot ask pertinent questions.
A politician will only tell you the real truth in order to manipulate
you for "Their"
own ends.
"Liars" feed on sheeple after dosing them with lots propaganda.
Good pointy questions destroy liars.
Mum.
whitroth
they really have no interest in, or any feeling for the folks involved
("this isn't a community! I said it isn't!) that we created the moderated
newsgroup soc.religion.paganism, after literally years of not wanting it.
mark
Hope
Yes, it is a shame. It seems there is at least one person in every
interest group whose sole purpose seems to be to ruin it for
everyone. Misery loves company, I guess. And it certainly must be
miserable to be in their skin.
Luke
"Evergreen" <sidne...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> Neo-Pagan 'Magick'
>
> Neo-pagans are magicians in the same way that they
> are environmentalists: Because they say they are.
>
> But are they really environmentalists? No. Their ecological
> footprints aren't any smaller than the people they look
> down their noses at who don't claim to be environmentalists.
> In fact, they are often considerably larger. And the ecological
> footprint of the average Westerner is many times that of the
> global average to begin with.
>
> And are the neo-pagans really magicians? No. Their so-called
> 'magick' is purely theatrical. It accomplishes nothing but
> the illusion of magick.
>
> Here's an example:
>
> http://wiccalessons.wordpress.com/tag/the-magick-circle/
>
> This supposed 'magick circle' is a crock. There's nothing
> magickal about it. It does absolutely nothing. There is
> nothing within it that is any different from the space
> outside of it.
>
> The idea that you can be a magician just by saying you
> are is absurd.
Fron another point of view, everything within the circle is different from
what is outside it.
>
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=merlin+wicca&btnG=Google+Search
>
> merlin wicca
>
> 302,000 hits
>
> Merlin, much extolled and supposedly emulated by neo-pagans of all
> sorts, spent most of his life in solitary study of magick.
>
> But the neo-pagans think they can do what he did just by saying
> they are magicians and buying some junk (that's supposedly
> magickal) and performing some theatrical rituals that any 1st
> grader could do a good job of performing.
>
> We are looking at a level of delusion that is almost comical.
>
> But what can one expect from psuedo-religions created
> by amateur scholars from snippets of history, anthropology,
> legend, myth, and a whole lot of pure fiction?
Not me.
>
> Like Wicca:
>
> http://www.bcholmes.org/wicca/gardner.html
>
>
> If you want to run around in the woods with a bunch of people
> and wear weird clothing and say weird things and pretend that
> you are doing magick and are spiritually evolved, then become a
> neo-pagan.
>
> These are the perfect 'religions' for spoiled and lazy and
> dishonest people who aren't willing to do any real work to
> achieve anything but want to believe, and want other people
> to believe, that they have accomplished something.
>
> If you want to learn magick, you can start by reading the
> articles here:
I've never run around the woods in weird clothing and don't plan to. In
fact, some magick can be seen as akin to formalised methods such as coaching
and NLP. So has benefits even without the utilisation of energies.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
>
>
> And the next time a neo-pagan or ceremonial magician threatens
> to harm you with magick, simply laugh at them. That's all the
> protection you need from the supposed 'magick' of these clowns.
Words and reactions can be powerful actions, obviously depending on their
influence, sometimes being even more powerful than ceremonial magick. It is
a way of stretching out with one's feelings for whatever purpose is
required.
stonehengeio
other than a load of newbies here at ard who think they are elsewhere
at
soc religion paganism majik perhaps ?
i see no spoiler in this thread.??
Creating an illusion of truth is faking it.
people cross posting are a pain as well.
Understanding body language only requires observation and a good
memory.
Reading "between" the lines of the written word, is another skill
essential for spotting fakers.
As for what people call magic/k, you either have it or you don't, you
cannot
learn magic/k, or make yourself "magical".
However you can learn tricks, illusion ect.and fake it for the
sheeple.
Mum
Evergreen
Thank you for a perfect example of the sort of vague, meaningless, and
useless woo-woo that the neo-pagan 'magick' world runs on.
"more powerful than ceremonial magick" !! ROTFLMAO !!!
Ceremonial magick can't accomplish anything simple prayer can't
accomplish.
Except that it is more entertaining, of course. And you can waste
a lifetime learning the silly rituals.
1X2Willows
On Feb 10, 4:17 am, Hope wrote:
>
> Yes, it is a shame. It seems there is at least one person in every
> interest group whose sole purpose seems to be to ruin it for
> everyone. Misery loves company, I guess. And it certainly must be
> miserable to be in their skin.
other than a load of newbies here at ard who think they are elsewhere
at
soc religion paganism majik perhaps ?
i see no spoiler in this thread.??
Creating an illusion of truth is faking it.
people cross posting are a pain as well.
Understanding body language only requires observation and a good
memory.
Reading "between" the lines of the written word, is another skill
essential for spotting fakers.
As for what people call magic/k, you either have it or you don't, you
cannot
learn magic/k, or make yourself "magical".
However you can learn tricks, illusion ect.and fake it for the
sheeple.
Mum
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Go pay some respect to the Archer, "stonehengeio".
Much better than mouthing off on some zilly newsgroup.
Go prepare him some Fondue and dump it in the hole, "care-taker".
It is February, it's lousy cold and the lad will surely appreciate it.
Hope
You know, I have become so used to not having to worry about
crossposting to the regs here that I neglected to check for such a
thing. I am so sorry you found this little error upsetting. I hope
it was the worst thing that happened to you yesterday!
Perhaps you can take some comfort in the fact that I am irrationally
bothered by copious errors in grammar and spelling. ;-p Other than
the fact that you obviously aren't very familiar with the poster who
started this thread, this is probably just an exercise in "reading
between the lines" for you.
I will try to be more diligent about not disturbing you in the
future. Should I ever fail in my quest for crossposting zen, you can
beat me with a broom and call me names, eTC., until you feel
better. ;-)
I hope you have a wonderful (and error-free) day!
stonehengeio
> "stonehengeio" <stoneheng...@googlemail.com> wrote
hello dan still spouting the usual. lol
mum
stonehengeio
No, not upsetting, just typical, and No, my local foxes were poisoned
by the
idiot county council yesterday.
And actually its you and wittless who are complaining of peeps
trespassing,
>"Y'know, it's because of assholes like in this thread, who go to newsgroups
> > > they really have no interest in,"
So witless claims to have mind reading skills, LOL
> Perhaps you can take some comfort in the fact that I am irrationally
> bothered by copious errors in grammar and spelling. ;-p
I get NO comfort from your particular "irrationality"
And i thought willow was my spell checker?
How did you get his job?
at least Dan has a sense of humour.
> Other than
> the fact that you obviously aren't very familiar with the poster who
> started this thread,
more assumptions
> this is probably just an exercise in "reading
> between the lines" for you.
Always!.
I tend to spot lost posters a mile away. its not cross posting that
annoys me, far from it , its people who fail to realise that they are,
and insist they are not and make claims that other are guilty.
these idiots then waffle things like
> I will try to be more diligent about not disturbing you in the
> future. Should I ever fail in my quest for cross posting zen, you can
> beat me with a broom and call me names, eTC., until you feel
> better. ;-)
>
> I hope you have a wonderful (and error-free) day!
Anyway my post was querying who you and the other were attacking-
>"Y'know, it's because of assholes like in this thread,"<
>Yes, it is a shame. It seems there is at least one person in every
interest group whose sole purpose seems to be to ruin it for
everyone.>
Actually its normally gangs of loonies who squat ard who we have
trouble with.
Sid and ren are good examples,
its such a shame we also get the camp follower as well.
Anyway Im sure i have made enough grammar and spelling mistakes
in this post for you to make yourself look like an idiot correcting
them
or criticise me.
LOL, even dan worked out thats NOT a good move.
As you can see above he just sticks with plain insults now.
Mum.
Hope
>
> No, not upsetting, just typical, and No, my local foxes were poisoned
> by the
> idiot county council yesterday.
Oh, that IS a shame. I'm sorry to hear that, truly.
> And actually its you and wittless who are complaining of peeps
> trespassing,
No, I'm not complaining about them trespassing. Anyone has a right to
post on unmoderated ng's. I just fail to see why some people get such
enjoyment out of spending their time telling everyone in an interest
group that they are idiots for having that interest. It seems a
strange investment of time and energy for a negative payoff. But
obviously they have a need and get something from it.
>
>
> So witless claims to have mind reading skills, LOL
I'm not really interested in getting into whatever you two have
between you. We have enough drama here.
>
> > Perhaps you can take some comfort in the fact that I am irrationally
> > bothered by copious errors in grammar and spelling. ;-p
>
> And i thought willow was my spell checker?
> How did you get his job?
I paid good money for a degree in it so that I could indulge in a
lifetime of fun poking at folks who introduce themselves to me by
talking to me as if I am a stable hand, rather then introducing
themselves civilly. If you had pointed out my error to me and asked me
politely to stop crossposting, my response to you would have consisted
of an equally civil apology and that would have been the end of it. I
tend to pay in coin of the realm. If someone wants to throw rudeness
out, I will give them change.
> at least Dan has a sense of humour.
>
Yes he does. I haven't seen any evidence of one from you, and I see
no reason to go out of my way to prove or disprove your assumption
about mine.
> I tend to spot lost posters a mile away.
What a useful skill that must be for you. Do you steal their picnic
baskets, or are you more the type to run ahead to Grandma's house and
lie in wait for a fresher meal?
Just so we are not confused, I am not lost right now. I am
deliberately cross posting this, as you have done. I assume you are
not lost. But perhaps I should not assume too much, based on the
other contradictions I've seen.
> its not cross posting that
> annoys me, far from it , its people who fail to realise that they are,
> and insist they are not and make claims that other are guilty.
> these idiots then waffle things like
Did I claim I did not crosspost? Did I claim anyone "made" me do it?
Or were you just looking for something to jump on and feel superior
about? Seems to me you are the one waffling on this issue.
>
> > I will try to be more diligent about not disturbing you in the
> > future. Should I ever fail in my quest for cross posting zen, you can
> > beat me with a broom and call me names, eTC., until you feel
> > better. ;-)
Darn. I guess we simply have different ideas about humor...among
other things. Pity.
>
>
> Anyway my post was querying who you and the other were attacking-
I did not see that question in your post. I saw you pronouncing
judgment about it and then adding a couple of question marks after the
period. Did you mean to make that a true interrogative? It really
read as though you had your mind already made up. You know, between
the lines and all.
>
> Actually its normally gangs of loonies who squat ard who we have
> trouble with.
> Sid and ren are good examples,
> its such a shame we also get the camp follower as well.
Ah, so it is fine for YOU to judge who should and shouldn't be
posting. And why is it you have more authority to judge what's going
on and who should be posting where than other posters do? At any
rate, I'm fairly sure neither ren nor sid will be too devastated by
your opinion.
Camp follower...by golly, you DO have a rudimentary sense of humor.
That sounds like something Rue Paul would say. *LOL* Do you consider
everyone who posts where you do to be YOUR camp followers? Or do you
just reserve such clever catiness for people who are NOKD (not our
kind, dear)?
> Anyway Im sure i have made enough grammar and spelling mistakes
> in this post for you to make yourself look like an idiot correcting
> them
> or criticise me.
Nah, there are many more interesting and enjoyable ways to make myself
look like an idiot. I have developed astounding skill at some of
them. In fact, I must confess--with all due modesty, of course--there
is some talk of my being elected Grand Poobah of Idiocy.
Speaking of idiots, do you plan to keep this little bitch fest going,
crossposts and all? Or shall we call the game on account of lack of
interest and move on?
> LOL, even dan worked out thats NOT a good move.
Yes, I'm sure he is absolutely terrified of you. *straight face #12*
> As you can see above he just sticks with plain insults now.
His actually look quite deluxe compared to yours. I would definitely
pay extra for his, even sans warranty.
> Mum.
Alas, Mum's not The Word around here. :-(
If you do have some burning need to continue this, please inform me of
which group you read most frequently. I do not really think we need to
inflict any further flotsam on the rest, do you? Thank you for your
consideration. I'm certain they thank you too.
stonehengeio
LOL, as it happen ard is where i post.
I do not cross post, my posts on ard are posted only on ard .
you say
>"No, I'm not complaining about them trespassing.">
after you posted,-
">Yes, it is a shame. It seems there is at least one person in every
interest group whose sole purpose seems to be to ruin it for
everyone.>
Once again, WHO are you referring to?
You say-
<I'm not really interested in getting into whatever you two have
between you. We have enough drama here. <
Nothing is between us.
I just cannot help recognising assumptions as "a guess" at
what another's thinking or means. ie an attempt to mind read.
you said
"I paid good money for a degree in it so that I could indulge in a
lifetime of fun poking at folks who introduce themselves to me by
talking to me as if I am a stable hand, rather then introducing
themselves civilly."
I originally posted-
"Politicians !" no way, they are not even good liars
let alone the very best.
They are also rubbish at being "economical with the truth"
and often cannot remember if they are supposed to lie or
tell the truth at any given moment.GriN
what makes Politicians appear to be good lie/r is an audience that
will not,
or cannot ask pertinent questions.
A politician will only tell you the real truth in order to manipulate
you for "Their"
own ends.
"Liars" feed on sheeple after dosing them with lots propaganda.
Good pointy questions destroy liars.
Mum.
You Posted
On Feb 10, 4:17 am, Hope <holleratwal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 9, 10:11 pm, whitroth <whitr...@rcn.com> wrote:
> > Y'know, it's because of assholes like in this thread, who go to newsgroups
> > they really have no interest in, or any feeling for the folks involved
> > ("this isn't a community! I said it isn't!) that we created the moderated
> > newsgroup soc.religion.paganism, after literally years of not wanting it.
> > mark
> Yes, it is a shame. It seems there is at least one person in every
> interest group whose sole purpose seems to be to ruin it for
> everyone. Misery loves company, I guess. And it certainly must be
> miserable to be in their skin.
I Posted in reply to you both-
"other than a load of newbies here at ard who think they are
elsewhere
at soc religion paganism majik perhaps ?
i see no spoiler in this thread.??"
(That was your invite to prove or clarify your statement)
"Creating an illusion of truth is faking it.
people cross posting are a pain as well.
Understanding body language only requires observation and a good
memory.
Reading "between" the lines of the written word, is another skill
essential for spotting fakers.
As for what people call magic/k, you either have it or you don't, you
cannot
learn magic/k, or make yourself "magical".
However you can learn tricks, illusion ect.and fake it for the
sheeple.
Mum "
You claim this regarding that post-
"talking to me as if I am a stable hand, rather then introducing
themselves civilly"
Plainly you are the expert on that.
Can you add up?
or do always make 1+1= 3. lol
You say-
"and I see no reason to go out of my way to prove or disprove your
assumption
about mine".
Fine by me,I note my claim was NOT an assumption just a simple fact.
some people like apples, some dont, Its obviously a personal
preference.
ie dans much more amusing than you.
As you were TRYING to be funny, i just thought i could save you
anymore
embarrassment as my humour is well developed.
you say
"His actually looks quite deluxe compared to yours. I would
definitely
pay extra for his, even sans warranty."
Now THATS funny.
you say
"I am not lost right now. I am deliberately cross posting this",
and then you incorrectly say "Im" cross posting????
As for dan waffling at me, you and him have no idea what his archer
post means.
I did not ask you to bugger off like dan did me.
I asked you and gave you an opportunity to explain your attack on as
yet unknown people.
you say-
If you do have some burning need to continue this, please inform me of
which group you read most frequently.
So you can cross post garbage to new locations?? LOL
and as it happens ard is the right place for exercising trollock
control methods.
As in between the "Trollocks" real info lurks about.
Mum
ren
> Actually its normally gangs of loonies who squat ard who we have
> trouble with.
> Sid and ren are good examples,
Are you accusing me of trolling alt.religion.druid?
Are you associating me with Sidney Lambe?
I strongly urge you to reconsider your words.
ren
> Good pointy questions destroy liars.
> Mum.
> As for what people call magic/k, you either have it or you don't, you
> cannot learn magic/k, or make yourself "magical".
Here is a pointed question at you, Mum. Are you elitist?
Better be careful, Mum. We'll have our fill of Sidney Lambe and make
you take his place.
stonehengeio
Lol,
I am the opposite of "Elitist" and have never suggested otherwise?
My work at Stonehenge demands ALL have equitable access, and that
elitism and its promoters have no more or less rights than any other
members
of the public visiting.
However I tend to like the tools in the tool box and the food in the
fridge,
not the other way around.
As for sid, you and him have been trying to enjoin ardites into your
Personal
spat since you tipped up.
At ard we TRY to debate the "issue" NOT the person.
When the debates focuses on the advocates rather than the issue
substance,
people sound like politicians or to be more precise, Kids.
You will be asking me what i believe in next LOL.
Why would anyone care? SMiRK
I wrote-
> As for what people call magic/k, you either have it or you don't, you
> cannot learn magic/k, or make yourself "magical".
you wrote-
are you an elitist?
LOL, surely you can ask a better question than that?
perhaps you should have asked "why" i wrote that.
or had a differing opinion.GriN
This was the other IMPORTANT part of that statement,
"However you can learn tricks, illusion ect.and fake it for the
sheeple."
Mum
Ps your question fails to qualify as a "Good pointy question"
so please have another try.
ren
wrinkled ass.
Why did you deliberately cross-post my message to Alt.Religion.Druid
and all these other newsgroups when I specifically only posted to
Alt.Religion.Wicca.
You are the cross-poster -- not I.
> As for what people call magic/k, you either have it or you don't, you
> cannot learn magic/k, or make yourself "magical".
>"Lol, I am the opposite of "Elitist" and have never suggested otherwise?"
Are you Sidney Lambe's thick Mum? What you are talking about are
people who are born with magickal abilities and people who are not
born with magickal abilities. Those are the only two kinds of people
in your world. You go on to further say that nobody can learn magick
who wasn't born of magick.
That makes you elitist.
Prepare to defend yourself, Mum. I and my kind are coming for you
right now. "I'll swallow your soul~~~ ???"
Edgar Frog
Pointy, like Madonna. :)
stonehengeio
0 out of 10 for pointy.
1 out of 10 for humour.
Edgar Frog
..ouch! :)
ren
Huh, huh, huh, huh. I guess she showed me. Huh, huh, huh, huh.
Noinden
heh given who you are talking too could be accused of trolling ARD at
times .....
Hope
> LOL, as it happen ard is where i post.
> I do not cross post, my posts on ard are posted only on ard .
That's interesting. When I hit "Reply" it shows that it would go to
four different groups: arw, ard, alt.pagan, and alt.magic. Your posts
are showing up in all four forums. You might want to check that
before claiming otherwise.
>
> you say>"No, I'm not complaining about them trespassing.">
>
> after you posted,-
> ">Yes, it is a shame. It seems there is at least one person in every
> interest group whose sole purpose seems to be to ruin it for
> everyone.>
"Trespassing" implies ownership and someone being in a place they have
no legal right to be. That is the wrong word to use here. Anyone can
post in an open, unmoderated forum. My complaint is not about that.
Once again, my issue is with posters who simply like to troll groups
for the purpose of attacking, criticizing, judging the interest as
stupid, etc. It is not about their *right* to do so. I just wish
they would choose otherwise. Can you understand the difference?
> Once again, WHO are you referring to?
As I have already said, the poster who started the string. That would
be sid.
> You say-
> <I'm not really interested in getting into whatever you two have
> between you. We have enough drama here. <
>
> Nothing is between us.
> I just cannot help recognising assumptions as "a guess" at
> what another's thinking or means. ie an attempt to mind read.
I'm pretty certain you could help commenting on it though.
>
[snip]
> "other than a load of newbies here at ard who think they are
> elsewhere
> at soc religion paganism majik perhaps ?
> i see no spoiler in this thread.??"
> (That was your invite to prove or clarify your statement)
Why would I want to spend my time trying to do that to someone who
begins the exchange by insulting? Is it supposed to be important to me
that you don't agree with another poster? I had no idea who you were
or why my statement mattered to you.
> You claim this regarding that post-
> "talking to me as if I am a stable hand, rather then introducing
> themselves civilly"
>
> Plainly you are the expert on that.
> Can you add up?
> or do always make 1+1= 3. lol
Apparently from the "lol" you believe you made a funny. I guess it
takes all kinds. Let's look at this logically. You showed up in this
thread complaining of lost newbies and pronouncing that you did not
feel anyone had a legitimate complaint. No greeting, no polite
request to not cross post, no "This is an interesting topic. Here's
what I think." Just insults for those who did not agree with you.
I'd say that in your system, 1+1=1. It's all about you.
> Fine by me,I note my claim was NOT an assumption just a simple fact.
And I note that I do not agree. Since neither of us has any authority
over the other or any reason to feel our opinion is inherently
superior to anyone else's by simple virtue of its origin, we will
simply have to agree to disagree.
> some people like apples, some dont, Its obviously a personal
> preference.
> ie dans much more amusing than you.
I have no problem with that at all. He amuses me more than I do too.
> As you were TRYING to be funny, i just thought i could save you
> anymore
> embarrassment as my humour is well developed.
I eagerly await evidence of that. No need to be modest. And please
don't spare another thought about the possibility of your embarrassing
me. I would, after all, only feel embarrassment if your opinion was
important to me.
Really, upon further reflection, that's quite the funniest thing you
have said. I actually laughed out loud. Perhaps your sense of humor
is indeed more sophisticated than I thought. Good job!
> you say
> "I am not lost right now. I am deliberately cross posting this",
>
> and then you incorrectly say "Im" cross posting????
Yes I do. Why would four groups show up in "Reply" if you were not?
Perhaps you ARE lost! Are you not aware that you are posting to more
than one group? Since you claim not to be crossposting, I checked all
four groups, and your posts are there. Oops! Did someone make a
mistake??
>
> As for dan waffling at me, you and him have no idea what his archer
> post means.
I'm pretty sure he does know exactly what his comment means.
Otherwise he would have made a quite different comment. It was very
specific. But again, if you wish to tell him you've judged him
ignorant about this subject, take it up with him.
> I did not ask you to bugger off like dan did me.
> I asked you and gave you an opportunity to explain your attack on as
> yet unknown people.
No, you did not ask. You made an announcement about how you had
judged it and expected me to defend my position. If you have not been
following the threads on arw, I am at a loss to understand why you
would see my comment that it is a shame some people like to try to
spoil things for everyone in an interest group as an "attack." Did
you think the comment was aimed at you? If not, then why did you feel
I needed to explain my comment to you? Why did you suddenly care?
The comment was not aimed at you. If you thought perhaps it was
(though I don't know why you would assume that,) you could have simply
asked me if that was true, and I would have told you that it was not.
I was referring to sid, as everyone familiar with his posting on arw
no doubt understood. And my opinion of sid is not something I need to
justify to you. I can't imagine why you think it is, unless you take
your Mum role WAY too seriously.
>
> you say-
> If you do have some burning need to continue this, please inform me of
> which group you read most frequently.
>
> So you can cross post garbage to new locations?? LOL
That's a completely illogical conclusion, and I don't know why you
consider that funny. Let me see if I can phrase my question more
simply. Which of the four groups your posts are going to do you
consider your "home group?" Chose one of the four. That shouldn't
be hard.
Those four groups are the only ones in question. Why would my reply
to your post go to a "new" group? That makes no sense. Are you sure
you have a right to be calling anyone a newbie??
> and as it happens ard is the right place for exercising trollock
> control methods.
Again...your posts are going to four groups. I did not choose that,
YOU did. When I reply to people, unless I manually remove the groups,
the reply goes to the groups THE ORIGINAL POSTER CHOSE. For example, I
am sending this reply only to arw and ard. I removed the other two.
So just who is crossposting, Mum? And whose posting needs to be
"controled"? Perhaps you should practice what you are attempting to
preach.
> As in between the "Trollocks" real info lurks about.
Yes, I've seen how much "real info lurks about" in ard, among all the
flaming by the two "I'm the head Druid" "No, he's a fake, there's a
lifetime ban on him!" camps. Scads of info. Very edifying indeed.
> Mum
Please feel free to practice being mum as well.
Are we done now?
stonehengeio
Thats cos i posted on ard on a post that had been cross posted.
ie i did not cross post, my post is being cross posted against my
will.
Starting a fresh string should sort it untill someone decides to get
crossing.
Mum
stonehengeio
Arrrrr sid,
i read the whole string so the question stands.
ie slag the issue off not the person then reader will
know who you are referring to.
Mum
Ps you should have said LOL
stonehengeio
Theoneflasehaddock
>
> How did i insult you? ?? ?- Hide quoted text -
Oh come on, you can't even read through your own posts to spot your
own insults? Are you really that boring?
Noinden
> Oh come on, you can't even read through your own posts to spot your
> own insults? Are you really that boring?
Yes
Hope
Against your will? You have no control over which groups you post
to? You might want to look into a different server then. Who wants
to be that big a victim? Google will work just fine for that, if you
want something free and very simple. It will not let you block
posters though. Some people consider that a major bummer.
> Starting a fresh string should sort it untill someone decides to get
> crossing.
> Mum
Oh, let's not. Haven't we said all we need to say to one another on
this topic? Let's be done with the claw sharpening. If you want to
start another string, let's talk about something more interesting than
egos, such as monoliths and megaliths.
Hope
>
> Arrrrr sid,
> i read the whole string so the question stands.
As do all of mine which you have chosen to ignore.
> ie slag the issue off not the person then reader will
> know who you are referring to.
> Mum
> Ps you should have said LOL
You will perhaps excuse me if I choose not to post via Mum's Rules of
Order for ARW. If not...well, I'm certain we will both find the
strength to carry on somehow. ;-p
Oh yeah...*LOL*.
stonehengeio
Question- are you posting on ard?? No your not?.
dont you find my distaste for cross posting
agreeable now?
I was, according to you blaming sid for setting up
the cross post, and there was i asking who did it.
silly me.
mum
stonehengeio
stonehengeio
that cross posting is a pain LOL make your mind up.
I thought we agreed it was?
Mum
stonehengeio
I had just returned to ard , Had read the thread and was asking who
because i was interested.
stonehengeio
No, but you plainly thought my observation was aimed at you.
Hope
>
> Question- are you posting on ard?? No your not?.
Yes I am. I was invited to do so. I don't post there often, because
the threads usually die out quickly (except for the ongoing flame
war.) You identified that as your preferred site for corresponding.
Did you not? Perhaps I misinterpreted that.
> dont you find my distaste for cross posting
> agreeable now?
I certainly wouldn't put it that way. Actually, I don't share the
"distaste" of some for any crossposting whatsoever. If the topic is
one that can reasonably be assumed to be of interest to more than one
group, I don't believe it's rude to post it there in good faith. If
the regulars object to the practice as a matter of principle, or if
find the subject not appropriate and let that be known (preferably
with civility,) then it would be good netiquette to cease and
desist.
That being said, I don't believe any one poster has a right to make
rules for the entire group and expect everyone else to demur and
follow along. That would indeed be an example of "sheeple," as you
call them.
It's not that different from interest groups in real time posting
articles in more than one periodical, or putting things up on bulletin
boards or sending out postcards about upcoming events and such. I
don't see why there needs to be a furor about it. Spamming is another
thing entirely, and I can't think of a situation in which that would
be welcomed by any group.
> I was, according to you blaming sid for setting up
> the cross post, and there was i asking who did it.
> silly me.
> mum
Um...I don't recall accusing you of blaming sid of cross posting. You
just said above that someone else started the crossposts and you were
helpless to change that. You did not mention sid specifically. I'm
getting the feeling we are separated by a common language.
> silly me.
> mum
If you say so. ;-)
stonehengeio
Ah ha removing alt religion wicca does help, now that's a useful reply
and finally answers my first post with a resolution to my problem.
Ta. LOL
Mum.
Evergreen
Or what? You can't do anything but run your punk mouth.
I guess I better take this stonehenge guy out of my
killfile.
If he's bothering ren it must mean he has something valuable
to say.
Sid
--
Wiccan 'Priest' and Apprentice Magician
http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
Evergreen
> On Feb 11, 4:30=A0pm, stonehengeio <stoneheng...@googlemail.com> wrote:
[delete]
>> As for what people call magic/k, you either have it or you don't, you
>> cannot learn magic/k, or make yourself "magical".
We are all magickal beings. It's our nature. Magick is the way reality
works.
>
> Here is a pointed question at you, Mum. Are you elitist?
>
> Better be careful, Mum. We'll have our fill of Sidney Lambe and make
> you take his place.
There goes ren again, pretending he can make people do things. He
just loves his delusions of power.
And doesn't have enough sense to keep them to himself.
stonehengeio
prevent unwanted cross posting. i see,
Sorted.
Finding out things can be a right rigmarole.
Bye to wicca/ pagan/ magick depts.
Im off to trim my NG headers
Mum
ren
> Thats cos i posted on ard on a post that had been cross posted.
> ie i did not cross post, my post is being cross posted against my
> will.
> Starting a fresh string should sort it untill someone decides to get
> crossing.
> Mum
Hope has successfully scrambled Mum's brains!
Hope has teh'magick!
ren
ren
Mum doesn't know where she is or what she is doing.
ren
> We are all magickal beings. It's our nature. Magick is the way reality
> works.
Yes we are. But not everybody wants to realize it.
> And doesn't have enough sense to keep them to himself.
I wanted to share my delusions with you. But your Mum is a better
troll.
ren
That's better, Mum. Mum's the word.
Hope
*LOL* In the interest of truth in advertising, I must point out that
the eggs were already cracked. ;-p
whitroth
> On Feb 9, 10:11 pm, whitroth <whitr...@rcn.com> wrote:
>> Y'know, it's because of assholes like in this thread, who go to
>> newsgroups they really have no interest in, or any feeling for the folks
>> involved ("this isn't a community! I said it isn't!) that we created the
>> moderated newsgroup soc.religion.paganism, after literally years of not
>> wanting it.
>
> Yes, it is a shame. It seems there is at least one person in every
> interest group whose sole purpose seems to be to ruin it for
> miserable to be in their skin.
It's more than just that. I was here for the original spam, the green card
one of what, '93? '94? And those assholes "defended" themselves by
asserting that newsgroups were not "communities", just bulletin boards, and
it was appropriate to post to every single (unmoderated) one their crap.
Between the spammers, and the assholes with way too much time on their
hands, and no life, who enjoy seeing how many folks they can piss off,
since *any* attention is better than no attention....
mark
--
"I've heard it said that we only use 10% of our minds. Imagine
what we could accomplish if we could use the other 60%"
- Ellen Degeneres
Theoneflasehaddock
>
> - Show quoted text -
You spelled stonehenge wrong.
An Coibhi Drui
Ooops, I forget, next time I'll remember to ask the permission of the
English.....
Cheers,
Michael.
An Coibhi Drui
wrote:
The ancients didn't spell it any way we know either :-)
Bruce Scott TOK
anything else in christianity.
--
ciao,
Bruce
drift wave turbulence: http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/
Evergreen
> Earth to Sid: it isn't any different with priests and pastors or
> anything else in christianity.
>
>
Earth to Bruce: That's another excellent criticism of the 'neo-pagan'
religions and the like. Same old shit in new-age clothing, so what's
the point?
Earth to Bruce 2: You are quite mistaken. The original
Christianity was created by people who experienced someone called
Jesus Christ who demonstrated that he was much more than an
ordinary person.
The 'neo-pagan' psuedo-religions were created by shoddy amateur
scholars who basically just went shopping in a mystical ideas
store: "Oh isn't that a cool sounding old legend? I think I'll
take five of those and then make them even cooler with my
imagination. And how about that old myth? That would sound so
cool on the internet..."
There's a world of difference between Christianity and the
'neo-pagan' pseudo-religions.
And I'd bet my life that the original pagans (as in thousands
of years ago) wouldn't recognize any of your practices or
liturgy.
The 'neo-pagan' pseudo-religions are just a bunch of people
playing dress up magician and pretending that they are the real
thing.
ren
> Earth to Bruce 2: You are quite mistaken. The original
> Christianity was created by people who experienced someone called
> Jesus Christ who demonstrated that he was much more than an
> ordinary person.
The Jesus, as depicted in the Bible, never existed.
There was a historical Essene Jewish reformer named Yeishu Ben Pantera
who was the main basis for the fictional Jesus. The life of Apollonius
of Tyana, who is also known as Paul, is also the basis for the
fictional story of Jesus.
Essene belief is interesting. http://www.essenes.net/naz/links.html
Hope
> On Feb 13, 5:13 pm, Evergreen <sidneyla...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
> > Earth to Bruce 2: You are quite mistaken. The original
> > Christianity was created by people who experienced someone called
> > Jesus Christ who demonstrated that he was much more than an
> > ordinary person.
>
> The Jesus, as depicted in the Bible, never existed.
> There was a historical Essene Jewish reformer named Yeishu Ben Pantera
> who was the main basis for the fictional Jesus. The life of Apollonius
> of Tyana, who is also known as Paul, is also the basis for the
> fictional story of Jesus.
Do you know all this for a fact, or is this your opinion of how it
happened? Are there certified documents proving these things? If
there are, and you have links or info about how to get hold of copies,
I would love to know about them! I find such things very
interesting--the real life DaVinci Code legends/hints/evidence/cover
up stuff. I'm sure all religions have such things, but of course here
in the West the big focus is Christianity and its "colorful" history.
sarchasm
> "Evergreen" <sidneyla...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
> The original
> Christianity was created by people who experienced someone called
> Jesus Christ who demonstrated that he was much more than an
> ordinary person.
>
Not if one lacks "faith" that any extraordinary events occurred. No, the
"original" xtianity contained very little which was original at all.
Subsequent writes extensively plagiarized and altered prior belief systems
in order to subsume them into xtianity. The Horus and Odhin myths, for
instance, were at least orignal to their cultures and predated the cultural
thefts of xtianity by thousands of years. It is unsurprising that "sid"
would support a 'religion' which has a basis in plagairism, false beliefs
and a control-over-others agenda.
Jack Slutmuffin
wrote:
> On Feb 9, 6:42 pm, Hope <holleratwal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 9, 12:00 pm, "Bassos" <zebazz_nope at zonnet.nl> wrote:
>
> > > "Evergreen" <sidneyla...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
>
> > >news:9pv566x...@magick.net...
>
> > > > Troigan Tho <per...@place.invalid> wrote:
>
> > > >> About mind reading. There is a person in my life that I have
> > > >> long suspected of being able to read minds, though they hide
> > > >> it very well. But you cannot lie to this person or deceive
> > > >> them in any way and they know what you really have on your
> > > >> mind at all times. It took me years to come to this conclusion
> > > >> because it is the only one that fits and very hard to accept.
>
> > > So you neglected to look at cold-reading.
>
> > > Did you know that face reading to determine disease used to be practised ?
> > > (i will leave it up to you how you interpret this)
>
> > > >> "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains,
> > > >> however improbable, must be the truth." Sherlock Holmes.
>
> > > > Tho. This person is most likely a very advanced magician.
>
> > > Some people, hell, almost all people wear their feelings.
> > > It is pretty much always in the face, but often also in the composure.
>
> > > > If you are diligent in your studies they will probably reveal
> > > > this fact to you and adopt you as a student.
>
> > > Signs for lying :
>
> > > The eyes look to :
> > > A : right
> > > B : down-rigth
> > > C : down
> > > D : down-left
> > > E : left
> > > F : up-left
> > > G : up
> > > H : up-right
>
> > > Why do they do that ?
> > > A : They try to fool observers
> > > B : They try to remember a story
> > > C : They try to come up with a completely new story
> > > D : They select a preremembered answer
> > > E : They look to multiple sides cos first they remember that they are being
> > > monitored, then know that eye movement is something valid, then remember
> > > something for this purpose, then consider the question, then forcefully move
> > > the eyes in a preordained order, then know what the response will be without
> > > considering the actual answer.
>
> > > Match the letters :?
>
> > So pretty much, anyone who is not looking straight ahead is lying?
> > *LOL* I guess that would be most human beings, most of the time. And
> > that may be accurate, especially if you take the psychopaths who do
> > not have normal responses into consideration.
>
> > Do you watch that new t.v. show, Lie to Me? I've never seen it, but
> > the main character is supposed to be an expert at spotting liars.
>
> The very best liars look you straight in the eyes ! Politicians :-)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yeah they do, or so i've been told.
ren
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeshu
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollonius_of_Tyana
Bassos
"Jack Slutmuffin" <zevill...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:12623a81-cc06-4973...@l38g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
> Yeah they do, or so i've been told.
Only at nubish questions.
ren
My opinion about that is that although a lot of Templar stuff is
mentioned, I do not believe that the Templars were protecting Jesus'
progeny.
I hate Monarchy, rule by divine right, rule because of what family you
were born in, Communist Oligarchy, Aristocracy. That is all nonsense
to me. I believe smart and cunning people should rule. They aren't
always the rich people or the ones with the most soldiers. I believe
that the Templars were such people given to a more Democratic,
Classical Greek government, Comparative Religious approach. The blood-
line is something wholly different. Just the opposite of what they
said it was. Not stale stupid blood, but blood -- according to the
mystical Cabala of the Jews, mixed with many races.
Hope
> On Feb 14, 4:34 am, Hope <holleratwal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeshuhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollonius_of_Tyana
Thank you for these sources. I will spend some time reading them in
detail. However, just from scanning them, nothing popped out at me
that *proves* your assertions, any more than there is proof of the
opposite. The sources listed are subject to interpretation and
surmise, and often conflicting conclusions are reached by the experts
and others who lay claim to an informed, unbiased opinion...if such a
thing is truly possible when the subject is the central figure of a
religion.
If the Bible is not considered a reliable source, it seems to me one
must use the same yardstick for the Talmud and the other written
sources from the same time period. Certainly one might suspect the
Jewish community of having an agenda for wanting Jesus to disappear as
a historical figure. And we cannot know how objective other writers
were. It is extremely difficult to verify information from ancient
documents, after all. Even if you have a dozen documents saying the
same thing, without physical evidence it is hard to know for certain
that they are not simply retellings of a source story that may or may
not have been based on actual events.
The article on Appollonius spends a bit of time explaining how his
"lengthy, novelistic biography" was written by the sophist
Philostratus at the request of empress Julia Domna. I don't see how
that *proves* he was Paul or that his life was "the" basis of the
story of Jesus. In just the two paragraphs under the subheading
"Modern Era" there are a bewildering array of conclusions about
Appollonius. Obviously they cannot all be true.
I think in matters of religion and spirituality, most things come back
to faith and belief, rather than scientifically verifiable fact.
Perhaps it has to be that way to meet the requirements of the
"mystical" center of our brain. That's why I don't invest a lot of my
energy in trying to "prove" other people's beliefs are "wrong."
Deciding what I believe and why seems to be enough of a job for me. ;-)
Hope
> On Feb 14, 4:34 am, Hope <holleratwal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > stuff about the Tom Hanks movie about the DaVinci Code legend and more stuff.
>
> My opinion about that is that although a lot of Templar stuff is
> mentioned, I do not believe that the Templars were protecting Jesus'
> progeny.
I don't either.
>
> I hate Monarchy, rule by divine right, rule because of what family you
> were born in, Communist Oligarchy, Aristocracy. That is all nonsense
> to me. I believe smart and cunning people should rule.
Who gets to judge who is smart and cunning enough to rule? I would
say democracy in action is our best shot for that. But then again, we
Americans ended up with George W. Bush running things for 8 years.
Obviously there is a flaw in the system somewhere. ;-)
> They aren't
> always the rich people or the ones with the most soldiers. I believe
> that the Templars were such people given to a more Democratic,
> Classical Greek government, Comparative Religious approach.
You are probably right. And look what that got them. They were done
in by the people who *did* have the most soldiers and wealth and
corrupt power. Alas for us, things often go that way. Which is no
excuse not to keep trying for something better.
> The blood-
> line is something wholly different. Just the opposite of what they
> said it was. Not stale stupid blood, but blood -- according to the
> mystical Cabala of the Jews, mixed with many races.
Which bloodline? Are you saying the Templars *were* guarding a
bloodline, or are you referring to something else?
Evergreen
the change.
I changed it back. He posted to only this group and I reinstated
the original newsgroups line.
ren <ren...@hotmail.com> wrote:
And there are a dozen other theories about Jesus around, if not
more, all with evidence to back them up.
You've picked one that appeals to you and decided it's true.
That's fine. It isn't any kind of accomplishment, but it's your
mind and you can believe whatever you want.
If you want to call people "dummies" who don't happen to believe
your favorite theory, then go ahead. All bigots do that sort of thing.
But Ren probably doesn't even believe what he wrote above. He just
doesn't want to talk about neo-pagan 'magick'.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/63aa9c2f2cd71da9
Tom
> Ren changed the subject to "Jesus for Dummies" without noting
> the change.
>
> I changed it back. He posted to only this group and I reinstated
> the original newsgroups line.
And did anyone appreciate it? No?
And does that matter to you? No?
aine
> On Feb 13, 4:51 pm, ren <ren1...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 14, 4:34 am, Hope <holleratwal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > stuff about the Tom Hanks movie about the DaVinci Code legend and more stuff.
>
> > My opinion about that is that although a lot of Templar stuff is
> > mentioned, I do not believe that the Templars were protecting Jesus'
> > progeny.
>
> I don't either.<
Twas Mary.
> > I hate Monarchy, rule by divine right, rule because of what family you
> > were born in, Communist Oligarchy, Aristocracy. That is all nonsense
> > to me. I believe smart and cunning people should rule.<
>
> Who gets to judge who is smart and cunning enough to rule? I would
> say democracy in action is our best shot for that. But then again, we
> Americans ended up with George W. Bush running things for 8 years.
> Obviously there is a flaw in the system somewhere. ;-)<
"How did the Nobles become Noble? They took it with a tip of a blade"
Knights Tale.
> > They aren't
> > always the rich people or the ones with the most soldiers. I believe
> > that the Templars were such people given to a more Democratic,
> > Classical Greek government, Comparative Religious approach.<
>
> You are probably right. And look what that got them. They were done
> in by the people who *did* have the most soldiers and wealth and
> corrupt power. Alas for us, things often go that way. Which is no
> excuse not to keep trying for something better.<
They were double agents. They were one with the Druids. Biding their
time, building their wealth, digging their secret tunnels.
>
> > The blood-
> > line is something wholly different. Just the opposite of what they
> > said it was. Not stale stupid blood, but blood -- according to the
> > mystical Cabala of the Jews, mixed with many races.<
>
> Which bloodline? Are you saying the Templars *were* guarding a
> bloodline, or are you referring to something else?<
Of course they were. Mary and Yeshua's. The Holy Grail. The child
conceived by the two. The bloodline of Jesus and Mary.