JFK Assassination Forum Archives -- Misc. Topics Of Interest (Part 159)

It always seemed that a bright pink hat, amongst all that dark (dark car, dark suits,
dark backs of heads) would have made a great aiming point. Just aim to the right a
bit.

drummist1965

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Feb 14, 2011, 10:01:38 AM2/14/11

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You advertise your stupidity every time you post here or elsewhere,
Healy.

aeffects

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Feb 14, 2011, 1:06:03 PM2/14/11

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sitdown moron, when i want your input we'll find a lone nut troll to
squeeze that mighty pimple atop your shoulders, that'll mess up your
tom-toms too!

drummist1965

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Feb 14, 2011, 1:46:35 PM2/14/11

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Healy, you really should do something about your problem of
talking about yourself out loud and in message boards, nonetheless.

aeffects

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Feb 14, 2011, 5:33:25 PM2/14/11

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whats-up shithead? Gary Mack throw you to the wolves (again) or sump'in

David Von Pein

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Feb 15, 2011, 12:10:35 AM2/15/11

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http://EducationForum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=17359&st=0&p=219588&#entry219588

WILLIAM KELLY SAID:

[Barry] Ernest and [Victoria] Adams demonstrate quite clearly that
neither Oswald, nor the Sixth Floor Phantom Snipe, whoever he was,
were on the back stairs in the minutes after the assassination, and
that the official story of Oswald descending those stairs in order to
meet [Marrion] Baker and [Roy] Truly in the Second Floor Lunchroom at
12:32 is not the way it happened.

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Nonsense, Bill.

With respect to Vickie Adams, the ONLY thing a person needs to accept
in order to have Oswald on the back stairs within one to two minutes
after the President's assassination is to accept the almost certain
fact that Victoria Adams was simply inaccurate in her time estimate
about when she and Sandra Styles were on the back staircase.

And if she's off by a mere ONE MINUTE, or even less, then her whole
story unravels and it then becomes quite easy to accept the fact that
Oswald used the back stairs just after shooting President Kennedy from
the sixth floor.

The key to pretty much knowing without a doubt that Adams and Styles
were on the stairs only AFTER Lee Oswald used the same stairs is not
really Oswald himself--but Roy Truly and Marrion Baker.

Because if Adams was really on the stairs as early as she said she
was, she would have had virtually no choice but to have seen (or
heard) the two men who we know for a fact WERE on those stairs within
about 60 to 75 seconds of the assassination -- Truly and Baker.

Since Adams saw nobody and heard nobody, the very likely solution is
that she was mistaken about her timing (which couldn't be a more
common error with human beings), and she was on the stairs AFTER all
three men (Oswald, Baker, and Truly) had already utilized the same
stairs.

http://JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/dvp-vs-dieugenio-part-14.html

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/adams_v.htm

BARRY ERNEST [AUTHOR OF "THE GIRL ON THE STAIRS"; http://Amazon.com/dp/B004GNFU9S]
SAID:

Perhaps a reading of the book and, in particular, a look at the June
2, 1964, transmittal letter from Martha Joe Stroud to J. Lee Rankin
may help clarify your point.

DVP SAID:

This post at another forum should be of interest to Mr. Ernest:

[quote on:]

"Sandra Styles mentioned to me that this author [Barry Ernest] had
contacted her some years ago. She even knew the name of the book
(which I hadn't heard of myself). Sandra claimed she told Ernest what
she was now telling me: that she and Victoria Adams did *not* go to
the rear stairs anything close to as quickly as Victoria had claimed.
I find it a little worrying that there is no mention of Sandra's
counter-version in any of the promotional material linked here." --
Sean Murphy; 1/27/11

[quote off]

Source post:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/msg/fcffcdcdf3ce66ae

And Murphy is an Oswald-Didn't-Do-It conspiracy fantasist, btw.

BARRY ERNEST SAID:

When I interviewed Sandra Styles in 2002, she said absolutely nothing
of the kind to me. What she did say was, she couldn't be sure exactly
how quickly she left the window and went down the stairs, but she
recalled she did so "rather quickly," in her words, and "when Vicki
did," again in her words. Why she would say otherwise now, especially
when she said what she did then and added, "Vicki was the more
observant one," is beyond me. Again, the Martha Joe Stroud letter can
settle the matter.

DVP SAID:

What Commission Document is the Stroud 6/2/64 letter in, Barry? I'll
be able to find it with ease at Mary Ferrell's site if you can give me
the CD number (or CE number, if it's part of a Commission Exhibit).
Thanks.

BARRY ERNEST SAID:

David, the referenced letter was neither a Commission Document nor a
Commission Exhibit. It was therefore not a part of the public record.
It is not in the Mary Ferrell database either, that I am aware of. A
copy of it exists in the Harold Weisberg collection, which is actually
a copy that I gave him shortly after discovering it in the National
Archives.

It was contained within a box of correspondence and other
miscellaneous paperwork sent from the DOJ office in Dallas to the WC.
It is a June 2, 1964, air mail, registered letter sent by Stroud to
Rankin in which she lists several changes Miss Adams requested be made
to her testimony, none of which were actually done by the way. The
final paragraph, and I will quote this verbatim including the spelling
errors, reads:

"Mr. Bellin was questioning Miss Adams about whether or not she
saw anyone as she was running down the stairs. Miss Garner, Miss
Adams' supervisor, stated this morning that after Miss Adams went
downstairs she (Miss Garner) saw Mr. Truly and the policeman come
up."

DVP SAID:

Thank you, Barry. That's interesting indeed.

I'll just add this:

The amount of physical and circumstantial evidence that exists to this
day against Lee Harvey Oswald for the murders of both President
Kennedy and policeman J.D. Tippit is just too massive and
comprehensive to be dismissed or ignored or swept under the rug --
even with the kind of information supplied on June 2, 1964, by Dorothy
Garner.

And remember to keep asking yourself one important question --

If Lee Oswald wasn't the sixth-floor assassin, then how did the "real
killer(s)" manage to remain completely out of the sight of Vickie
Adams and Sandra Styles and Dorothy Garner and Roy Truly and Marrion
Baker following the assassination of the President?

Did the "real killer" somehow manage to make himself invisible to all
of those witnesses right after the shooting? Or did the real killer
(if it wasn't Oswald) decide to remain on the sixth floor for many
minutes after he shot at JFK, running the fearful risk of being
captured on the TSBD floor where Oswald's rifle and the three spent
shells were found?

I think even most hardened conspiracy theorists would find that latter
option a little hard to swallow.

http://Oswald-Is-Guilty.blogspot.com

David Von Pein

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Feb 15, 2011, 1:14:43 AM2/15/11

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http://EducationForum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=17359&st=0&p=219620&#entry219620

GREG PARKER SAID:

>>> "Translation: I have no way of explaining Garner's comment away, so I [suggest] that you divert yourself from her and join me in enshrining the WC fairy tale." <<<

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Greg Parker, as per all hard-boiled conspiracy nuts who enjoy their
fantasies much more than reality, is more than willing (and even
eager) to throw away all of the "Oswald Was Here" evidence found on
Floor #6 on 11/22. Right, Gregory?

Just chuck all of the evidence straight into the trash, including the
rifle and the three shells and Brennan's testimony and LHO's prints
which littered the Sniper's Nest. I expect most online conspiracists
to pretend that every piece of evidence damning to Oswald was faked.
Why should you be different?

>>> "Adams and Styles, in case you forgot in the last nano-second, missed him because they had gone down BEFORE Baker and Truly had gone up (according to Garner)." <<<

Couldn't have happened. Not in the real world. Not unless Miss Adams
and Miss Styles were world-class sprinters. And we know they stayed at
the south-side windows for a certain period of time, too. And yet they
still supposedly managed to beat Truly and Baker to the stairs??
Hogwash.

In short, it's a thousand times easier to explain away Garner's 6/2/64
statement provided by Barry Ernest than it is for conspiracists to
explain away all of that incredibly incriminating evidence against Lee
H. Oswald that was discovered on the sixth floor.

David Von Pein

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Feb 16, 2011, 11:47:00 PM2/16/11

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http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,3879.msg75849.html#msg75849

http://www.jfklancerforum.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=3&topic_id=91327&mesg_id=91327&page=

It's quite apparent that somebody named Gil is barking up the wrong
tree regarding those rifle documents, and that the paperwork from
8/29/62 is totally irrelevant to the Oswald rifle (#C2766).

How can we know this document below (listing 170 carton numbers) is
meaningless and irrelevant when it comes to searching for Carton #3376
or Rifle #C2766?

http://oi55.tinypic.com/a9o2sk.jpg

Answer:

Because when examining William Waldman Exhibit No. 3 (below), we can
see that NONE of the ten carton numbers that Klein's received from
Crescent Firearms in February 1963 is included as part of that August
1962 Fred Rupp document -- such as 3376, 3428, 3569, 3545, and 3300
(to name just 5 of the 10 carton numbers).

And all of those carton numbers I just mentioned were a part of the
Klein's order from Crescent in February '63, the very same shipment of
100 rifles that included the Oswald C2766 rifle.

So it's not just the C2766 carton (#3376) that is missing from the
Fred Rupp document of 8/29/62 -- ALL TEN cartons of rifles that
Klein's ultimately received from Crescent Firearms in February '63 are
missing from that Rupp document.

Waldman Exhibit No. 3:
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/html/WH_Vol21_0359b.htm

So, it's quite obvious that that whole Lancer thread is leading down
the wrong avenue for conspiracy theorist Gil Jesus, who thinks he's
proven via those documents that Oswald's C2766 gun was never shipped
from Crescent to Klein's. But that August '62 document is simply not
the right one to use if a person wants to find those ten cartons
(including carton 3376).

In the final analysis --

From the available paperwork from Crescent and from Klein's, it
couldn't be more obvious that Klein's positively shipped Rifle #C2766
to "A. Hidell" (aka Lee Oswald) in March of 1963.

More....

http://JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/2010/07/discussing-evidence.html

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/f46542f2997ecdbb

aeffects

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Feb 17, 2011, 4:27:00 AM2/17/11

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On Feb 16, 8:47 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:

methinks you've OD'ed on 'extra crispy', clown!

David Von Pein

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Feb 17, 2011, 4:28:48 AM2/17/11

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http://EducationForum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=17359&st=15&p=219771&#entry219771

http://EducationForum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=17359&st=15&p=219776&#entry219776

Hi Duke [Lane],

Thanks for your last detailed post.

I'll say this regarding Vickie Adams' timeline.....

The more I think about this subject, the more I realize that even if
Adams DID descend those stairs as quickly as she said she did, that
particular scenario really does no harm whatsoever to the "Oswald Did
It" conclusion.

Why?

Because if Adams and Styles really did this....

Mr. BELIN -- "How long do you think it took you to get from the window
to the bottom of the stairs on the first floor?"

Miss ADAMS -- "I would say no longer than a minute at the
most." [After remaining at the 4th-floor windows for "between 15 and
30 seconds" (via Adams' WC testimony).]

....then Adams and Styles very likely BEAT Lee Harvey Oswald to the
stairs. Hence, it's likely that Adams & Styles were always AHEAD of
Oswald on their descent down the stairs.

And if Adams & Styles were really THAT fast at getting to the first
floor, then they could have possibly beaten Baker & Truly too, with
B&T only getting on the stairs after A&S had vacated the stairwell.*

* = I only offer up the above scenario as an alternate possibility.
But I still believe that my earlier comment about this matter is the
best explanation (repeated below), because human beings just are not
very good at estimating elapsed times.

And a big difference between Vickie Adams and Marrion Baker is that
with Baker we have a TIMED RECONSTRUCTION of the movements he made on
11/22/63. So we can use that re-creation to form a pretty good
estimate for the amount of time it took him to do the things he knows
he did on November 22nd:

"If Adams was really on the stairs as early as she said she was,

she would have had virtually no choice but to have seen (or heard) the
two men who we know for a fact WERE on those stairs within about 60 to

75 seconds of the assassination -- Truly and Baker." -- DVP

Another key point regarding Baker's reconstruction times is this --
Marrion Baker made it clear via his Warren Commission testimony that
his March 1964 re-creations would be the MINIMUM amount of time for
performing his actions (75 seconds and 90 seconds on his two run-
throughs).

Baker said that it very likely took him LONGER to do the things he did
on November 22 than it did when he reconstructed his movements the
following March. Which would give Lee Oswald more time to get from the
sixth floor to the second floor in time to encounter Baker & Truly.
And, hence, it would also make it a bit more possible and feasible for
Vickie Adams' WC version of her very quick trip down to the first
floor to be accurate.

So, really, any way you slice it, Oswald's innocence is certainly far
from proven regardless of the precise time when Victoria Adams and
Sandra Styles were on those stairs.

And, as mentioned previously, the amount of physical evidence that
Oswald left behind of his dirty deed on the sixth floor is certainly
enough for any reasonable person to conclude that Mr. Oswald was not
merely an innocent bystander (or "patsy") in the murder of John F.
Kennedy.

And in my previous post, I didn't even mention the 38-inch brown paper
bag that had two of Oswald's own prints on it. But, of course, most
conspiracists enjoy dismissing that bag as being "fake" and "planted"
evidence too. (I wonder how they planted those prints of Oswald's on
that paper bag, though? Just another one of J. Edgar's and Will Fritz'
many talents when it comes to framing innocent patsies, I guess, huh?)

JohnBL

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Feb 17, 2011, 1:05:25 PM2/17/11

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On Monday, February 14, 2011 11:10:35 PM UTC-6, David Von Pein wrote:

> > Since Adams saw nobody and heard nobody, the very likely solution is
> that she was mistaken about her timing (which couldn't be a more
> common error with human beings), and she was on the stairs AFTER all
> three men (Oswald, Baker, and Truly) had already utilized the same
> stairs.

Caution: Lurker jumping in...

Very true regarding it being a common human error. People tend to be all over the map when it comes to estimating small amounts of time. I recall an experiment done by my high-school science teacher in which he asked about six members of the class to stand in front of the room with our eyes shut (so we couldn't see the clock on the wall), then open our eyes and return to our seats when we thought that three minutes had passed. One sat down after 45 seconds, another was up there a full seven minutes, and most of the rest didn't make it to two minutes.

If you doubt the concept, ask yourself these questions:
-If you drive to work, how long does it take you to walk from the parking lot to the front door of your workplace?
-How long does it take to walk from your front door to the corner of your block?
-How long does it take you to make coffee in the morning?

And so forth. The time that most people would estimate for the above activities would likely be way off. Take a guess then time it sometime, if you doubt it.

That's why I take all such time estimates, in this or any other case, with a big ol' grain of salt.

John L.

David Von Pein

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Feb 17, 2011, 5:01:22 PM2/17/11

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http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,3879.msg75958.html#msg75958

Ian,

It couldn't be more obvious that Gil Jesus has the wrong document to
try to prove what he wants to prove about LHO's rifle. There must be
another Crescent document (somewhere) that has ALL TEN of the carton
numbers on it for the Crescent-to-Klein's Feb. '63 shipment.

Do you really think that ALL TEN packing slips in Waldman Exhibit No.
3 are fakes?

Use some common sense, for Pete sake. Since ZERO of the ten cartons
are listed on the 8/29/62 Fred Rupp document, isn't it kind of obvious
that Gil has gotten ahold of the wrong document?

And if you think I'm going to search the world for the Crescent
document with "3376" on it, think again. I couldn't care less about
finding such a document.* Unlike the conspiracy kooks of the world,
I'm not the kind of person who insists on seeing every last piece of
documentation before arriving at a reasonable and logical conclusion
about something -- in this case, about arriving at the reasonable (and
obvious) conclusion that Lee Harvey Oswald ordered, paid for, and was
shipped Mannlicher-Carcano rifle #C2766 in March of 1963.

And Gil apparently also is of the ridiculous belief that all of those
other "Rupp" documents are supposed to include either the carton
numbers or the individual rifle serial numbers--which is just silly.
Those documents aren't meant to convey that type of detailed
information. Only the first one posted by Gil includes that data (and
only the carton numbers, not the serial numbers). And NONE of the ten
cartons in the February 1963 shipment to Klein's are on it.

So, do the math. It's really quite elementary.

* = But actually there IS a "Crescent" document with that exact number
on it (3376) -- it's at 21 H 698 of the Warren Commission volumes.
This document below is a packing slip that was made out by Crescent
Firearms, Inc. (with their company mark right at the top of it). Is
this a fake too?:

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/html/WH_Vol21_0361b.htm

Gil Jesus

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Feb 18, 2011, 7:12:15 AM2/18/11

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On Feb 17, 5:01 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> Ian,
>
> It couldn't be more obvious that Gil Jesus has the wrong document to
> try to prove what he wants to prove about LHO's rifle. There must be
> another Crescent document (somewhere) that has ALL TEN of the carton
> numbers on it for the Crescent-to-Klein's Feb. '63 shipment.

Must be ?

I believe that the documents I questioned were from Harborside
warehouse,
not Crescent Firearms. I posted:

The WC said that rifle # C2766 was packed in a carton number 3376.

Can any of you nutcases show us where in the following documentation
either the carton number or serial number of the rifle are listed ?

The first 170 cartons Fred Rupp removed from the Harborside warehouse
on 8/29/62

http://i55.tinypic.com/a9o2sk.jpg

The 90 he removed on 10/4/62

http://i55.tinypic.com/2j2zrrr.jpg

The 70 he removed on 10/16/62

http://i51.tinypic.com/1z5nr04.jpg

The 64 he removed on 10/24/62

http://i54.tinypic.com/29gjqtc.jpg

The 40 he removed on 10/31/62

http://i53.tinypic.com/aww9xj.jpg

The 10 cartons of rifles he released to North Penn Transfer

http://i54.tinypic.com/1j0oi1.jpg

The 10 Cartons North Penn delivered to Lifschultz Fast Freight

http://i52.tinypic.com/2h7qwys.jpg

The 10 cartons Lifschultz delivered to Klein's Sporting Goods

http://i52.tinypic.com/2w7o7if.jpg

ANYONE SEE THE NUMBERS 3376 OR C2766 ON ANY OF THOSE DOCUMENTS ?

Please try to keep up.

> Do you really think that ALL TEN packing slips in Waldman Exhibit No.
> 3 are fakes?

Again, I talking about apples and you're talking about cole slaw.

> Use some common sense, for Pete sake. Since ZERO of the ten cartons
> are listed on the 8/29/62 Fred Rupp document, isn't it kind of obvious
> that Gil has gotten ahold of the wrong document?

More nonsense

> And if you think I'm going to search the world for the Crescent
> document with "3376" on it, think again. I couldn't care less about
> finding such a document.* Unlike the conspiracy kooks of the world,
> I'm not the kind of person who insists on seeing every last piece of
> documentation before arriving at a reasonable and logical conclusion
> about something -- in this case, about arriving at the reasonable (and
> obvious) conclusion that Lee Harvey Oswald ordered, paid for, and was
> shipped Mannlicher-Carcano rifle #C2766 in March of 1963.

Right. Your "common sense" approach far exceeds the need for evidence.

> And Gil apparently also is of the ridiculous belief that all of those
> other "Rupp" documents are supposed to include either the carton
> numbers or the individual rifle serial numbers--which is just silly.

Really ? Lifschultz terminal manager John Garris told the FBI that the
original bill of lading # 41342 was kept in their Chicago office and
would
LIST THE NUMBER OF EACH CARTON.

Do you see them here, Mr. Nutcase ?

http://i52.tinypic.com/2w7o7if.jpg

> Those documents aren't meant to convey that type of detailed
> information. Only the first one posted by Gil includes that data (and
> only the carton numbers, not the serial numbers). And NONE of the ten
> cartons in the February 1963 shipment to Klein's are on it.

Which means that C2766 was not removed from the warehouse on 8/29/62.
And there's no evidence that it was removed from the warehouse on any
of the other dates.

> So, do the math. It's really quite elementary.

Apparently you have a problem with reading comprehension.

> * = But actually there IS a "Crescent" document with that exact number
> on it (3376) -- it's at 21 H 698 of the Warren Commission volumes.
> This document below is a packing slip that was made out by Crescent
> Firearms, Inc. (with their company mark right at the top of it). Is
> this a fake too?:
>

> http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/html/WH_Vol...

Who at Cresecnt Firearms made out those packing slips ?

tom...@cox.net

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Feb 18, 2011, 5:06:18 PM2/18/11

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That rifle with serial number C2766 belonged to Dr. John Lattimer..

SEE>>> http://www.whokilledjfk.net/Lattimer.htm

David Von Pein <davev...@aol.com> wrote:
> http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,
> 3879.msg75849.html#msg75849
>
> http://www.jfklancerforum.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=3&topic_

--
-------------------- http://NewsReader.Com/ --------------------
Usenet Newsgroup Service $9.95/Month 30GB

David Von Pein

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Feb 18, 2011, 5:45:30 PM2/18/11

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Let me spell it out really slow for Retard Gil.....

The Rupp document you posted from 8/29/62 cannot possibly be the
correct document for the Feb. '63 shipment to Klein's BECAUSE ZERO OF
THE TEN CARTON NUMBERS THAT KLEIN'S GOT FROM CRESCENT IN FEB. ARE
LISTED.

Hence, there must be another document that shows those ten carton
numbers somewhere.

Gil, do you think the other NINE cartons are "fakes" too? If not, why
don't you find any of the other nine carton numbers on the 8/29/62
document either?

tom...@cox.net

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Feb 18, 2011, 11:22:27 PM2/18/11

to

The Manlicher-Carcano rifle with Serial Number C2766 belonged to Dr. John
Lattimer. SEE>>> http://whokilledjfk.net/Lattimer.htm

Unlss ANTHER one from YOUR side is lYING bASTARD !

David Von Pein <davev...@aol.com> wrote:

--

Gil Jesus

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Feb 19, 2011, 8:48:11 AM2/19/11

to

On Feb 18, 5:45 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> Let me spell it out really slow for Retard Gil.....
>
> The Rupp document you posted from 8/29/62 cannot possibly be the
> correct document for the Feb. '63 shipment to Klein's BECAUSE ZERO OF
> THE TEN CARTON NUMBERS THAT KLEIN'S GOT FROM CRESCENT IN FEB. ARE
> LISTED.
>
> Hence, there must be another document that shows those ten carton
> numbers somewhere.

Well, let's see who the retard is here.

In 1958, Crescent Firearms purchased 500,000 rifles from the Italian
Government. The final shipment of those rifles ( 520 cartons ) left
Italy's port of Genoa after being identified as lot number 91594 and
arrived in the New York via the steamer Elettra Fassio on October 15,
1960.

The 520 cartons were removed and trucked by the Waterfront Transfer
Company to the Harborside Terminal, a bonded warehouse in New Jersey.

http://i51.tinypic.com/33osil1.jpg

As one can see, the CARTON NUMBERS are listed on the manifest. For
example, "3086/3094" means that all cartons numbered from 3086 thru
3094 inclusive were on this shipment. The third entry down, 3305/3436,
means that all cartons bearing numbers in that range were part of this
shipment, including the carton 3376, which contained rifle # C2766.

In fact, ALL of the cartons listed in the February 1963 shipment to
Klein's were part of this shipment.

The shipment was placed in storage and remained there for the next two
years.

This is where the paper trial for carton 3376 ends.

Fred Rupp was a federally-licensed gun dealer who had a contract with
Crescent Firearms to pick up rifles at the Harborside Warehouse and
inspect, clean, test-fire, repack and ship them to Crescent's retail
customers.

Klein's purchase order of 1/15/62 requested that 400 model 91TS rifles
( 36" troop specials ) be delivered in October, 1962.

http://i56.tinypic.com/25u5mqf.jpg

According to Harborside delivery order # 89238, Rupp removed the first
170 cartons on August 29, 1962.
A list of the numbers of the cartons removed was on the manifest.
CARTON 3376 WAS NOT AMONG THEM.

http://i55.tinypic.com/a9o2sk.jpg

Importers of rifles and gun dealers were required BY LAW to maintain a
list of SERIAL NUMBERS of the rifles they imported. Rupp was required
by law to keep a list of the serial numbers he removed from the
warehouse ( which he did on the 8/29/62 manifest ) and the name of the
retail customer he shipped them to. And Klein's was required to keep
the serial numbers of rifle they sold to retail customers. ( 7 H 371 )

During the month of October, 1962, Rupp removed 264 more rifles from
lot 91594.

90 on October 4th

http://i55.tinypic.com/2j2zrrr.jpg

70 on October 16

http://i51.tinypic.com/1z5nr04.jpg

64 on October 24

http://i54.tinypic.com/29gjqtc.jpg

40 on October 31

http://i55.tinypic.com/2j2zrrr.jpg

On all of the subsequent shipping manifests of the rifles removed from
Harborside Warehouse by Fred Rupp, THE LIST OF CARTONS NUMBERS IS
ABSENT, even though on the 10/24 manifest, it is clearly marked "list
numbers of cases shipped".

Rupp removed a total of 434 Mannlicher Carcano 91/38 rifles in the
month of October 1962 from the lot of 520 rifles ( 91594 ) belonging
to Crescent Firearms. He told the FBI that he kept no record of the
carton numbers or serial numbers of the rifles he removed from
Harborside. ( CD 7, pg. 180 ) In other words, THERE IS NO EVIDENCE
THAT CARTON 3376 WAS AMONG the 434 rifles removed by Rupp, even though
the FBI said it was.

The FBI's " tracking of the rifle " included unsigned and undated
documents and manifests which listed neither the serial numbers nor
the carton numbers.

One of particular note is Crescent Firearms invoice # 3178.

Mr. BELIN. Mr. Waldman, referring to Waldman Deposition Exhibit No.
3, which are the serial numbers of the 100 rifles which were made in
this shipment from Crescent Firearms to you.......is there any way to
verify that this payment pertained to rifles which are shown on
Waldman Deposition Exhibit No. 3?

Mr. WALDMAN. The forms submitted by Crescent Firearms showing serial
numbers of rifles included in the shipment covered by their invoice
No. 3178 indicate that the rifle carrying serial No. C-2766 was
included in that shipment.

( 7 H 368 )

WHOA...WAIT A MINUTE...IT MOST CERTAINLY DOES NOT !!!!!

If you look closely at invoice # 3178, you'll see that ALL OF THE
CARTON NUMBERS HAVE LITTLE CHECKS ABOVE THEM EXCEPT CARTON NUMBER
3376.

http://i51.tinypic.com/15nkkjk.jpg

That means that in verifying the carton numbers in that shipment, 3376
was never verified as being a part of that shipment.

David Von Pein

unread,

Feb 19, 2011, 8:54:16 AM2/19/11

to

I'll ask again, Gil:

Do you think there's something suspicious and/or fake about the OTHER
NINE cartons that also aren't listed on the 8/29/62 Rupp document, but
were part of the Feb. '63 shipment from Crescent to Klein's?

Walt

unread,

Feb 19, 2011, 9:20:56 AM2/19/11

to

Those a just a few lines in the print you choose to believe are
caused by the bayonet slot. The lines aren`t parallel. The print can
be seen on this page of DVP`s blog...

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/07/mannlicher-carcano.html

Is the liar who is shown in the video, David Von Pea Brain??

Whoever the man is....He's a LIAR!... Because in the video he
says
that Oswald's palm print was found on the metal barrel, beneath the
"HAND GUARD". This is an outright outrageous LIE!!

The facts are:... Lt JC Day claimed he found Oswald's palm print on
the metal gun barrel on the BOTTOM of the barrel beneath the FORE
GRIP ... FORE GRIP ... The liar in the video points to the HAND
GUARD
on TOP of the rifle and says that Oswald's palm print was found
beneath the HAND GUARD.... Watta LIAR!!

The photo (CE 637) of the so called "Palm Print" is shown in the
video
and the bayonet groove is clearly visible. That bayonet groove in
the
photo PROVES that the "unidentifialbe smudge" ( FBI report) that they
claimed was "Oswald's palm print" was in FACT lifted from the WOODEN
foregrip of a model 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano.

David Von Pein

unread,

Feb 19, 2011, 9:30:04 AM2/19/11

to

Walt's delusional (as usual).

Walt

unread,

Feb 19, 2011, 9:43:29 AM2/19/11

to

On Feb 19, 8:30 am, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> Walt's delusional (as usual).

I'm not delusional....and I'm not a liar. You have shown yourself to
be a LIAR many times, but this video really makes it clear.

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/07/mannlicher-carcano.html

The liar in the video places his right hand on top of the HAND GUARD
and says that Oswalds palm print was found beneath that HAND GUARD.
What an outrageaous LIE! Lt Day was lying when he said that he
found the print on the metal barrel of the rifle beneath the FORE
GRIP......But the FACT is he did say he found it beneath the FORE
GRIP.

Now that people are better educated about the Model 91?38 Carcano they
know that it would heve been IMPOSSIBLE for Lt Day to find that prinr
as he claimed he did. Hence the LIAR in this video tries to change
the location to beneath the HAND GUARD.

Not all that different that Ford moving the back wound up to JFK's
neck. Whatta bunch of pathetic LIARS you maggots are!!!

Gil Jesus

unread,

Feb 19, 2011, 10:12:03 AM2/19/11

to

And I won't answer again David, because I won't allow you to change
the subject.
At issue here is rifle C2766 and the carton it was in, 3376.
I've responded to your childish name-calling with documented evidence--
YOUR evidence,
that calls into question whether carton 3376 was removed from
Harborside for the February
shipment to Klein's. In addition, I've added evidence, YOUR EVIDENCE,
that calls into
question whether 3376 was ever VERIFIED as part of that shipment.

Now you don't want to talk about it, but rather talk about the OTHER
NINE cartons ?

I'm attacking YOUR EVIDENCE, David. And I'm attacking it WITH YOUR
evidence.

I find it pathetic that you choose to run off ( as you usually do ) in
another direction like a schoolgirl.

aeffects

unread,

Feb 19, 2011, 2:10:19 PM2/19/11

to

indeed he does, and it is pathetic.... makes one wonder how Vince
Bugliosi found this troll to do (internet) none stop web promotion re
Bug's Reclaiming History. RC will go down as one of huge, mega huge
even, screwups in book publishing history... and these are the
guardian of the Warren Commission Report? ROTFLMFAO....

Message has been deleted

David Von Pein

unread,

Feb 19, 2011, 9:50:30 PM2/19/11

to

>>> "Now you don't want to talk about it, but rather talk about the OTHER NINE cartons?" <<<

Because, Kook Gil, the OTHER NINE cartons are also NOT listed on the
document that you seem to think is so important.

So, if those other 9 cartons aren't "faked" in some way, then it's
obvious that the tenth carton to go with those other 9 is also a legit
carton (3376).

Just because you haven't found a Harborside document that says
"3376" (or the other NINE cartons in the Feb. shipment) doesn't mean
such a document never existed.

Of course, all of this chasing your tail to look for documents about
the rifle sale is totally immaterial and unimportant to begin with.

Why?

Because even if there were ZERO documents to verify the rifle
transaction from Crescent to Klein's or from Klein's to
Oswald....there would still be THE RIFLE ITSELF (C2766), with Oswald's
own prints on it, staring you in the face every day from now till the
end of time.

Nothing and no one will change the following facts:

The rifle that killed President John F. Kennedy is Mannlicher-Carcano
#C2766, which is a gun that was found on the sixth floor of the TSBD
on 11/22/63, and is a gun that had Lee Harvey Oswald's fingerprints
and palmprint on it.

And there is no need for a shred of Klein's or Crescent or Harborside
documentation in order to prove that the last paragraph I just wrote
is the 100% truth.

But keep searching for those meaningless Harborside documents,
Gilbert. Being the retarded Anybody-But-Oswald kook that you are, I'm
sure that pretty soon you'll have yourself convinced that Oswald's
rifle never even existed AT ALL. It was merely a "hologram".

aeffects

unread,

Feb 19, 2011, 11:17:50 PM2/19/11

to

there you go AGAIN, troll. running in circles looking for another
moment to fill with disinfo. You know dipso, you'll never be as good
as McMadman or Kenny Rahn at the disinfo game.... give up trying,
you're making a fool of yourself!

timstter

unread,

Feb 19, 2011, 11:30:02 PM2/19/11

to

It looks like Walt should URGENTLY seek some kind of psychiatric
intervention.

Concerned Regards,

Tim Brennan
Sydney, Australia
*Newsgroup(s) Commentator*

Gil Jesus

unread,

Feb 20, 2011, 6:33:31 AM2/20/11

to

On Feb 19, 11:17 pm, aeffects <aeffect...@gmail.com> wrote:

> there you go AGAIN, troll. running in circles looking for another
> moment to fill with disinfo. You know dipso, you'll never be as good
> as McMadman or Kenny Rahn at the disinfo game.... give up trying,

> you're making a fool of yourself!-

Typical Von Pein. When he's faced with the truth, he tries to change
the subject.
He doesn't want to talk about carton 3376. He doesn't want to talk
about Crescent invoice 3178.
He doesn't want to talk about why NINE cartons are checked off on that
invoice and the tenth, 3376, is not.
The FBI's tracing of rifle C2766 was a joke. And when he's asked to
defend it, he can't.

HOW IS HE GOING TO HANDLE THE EVIDENCE I HAVE THAT THE MONEY ORDER WAS
A FAKE ?

We'll see this coming week when I post it.

It otta be fun to see hs reaction.

aeffects

unread,

Feb 20, 2011, 2:02:42 PM2/20/11

to

On Feb 20, 3:33 am, Gil Jesus <JFK63Conspir...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Feb 19, 11:17 pm, aeffects <aeffect...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > there you go AGAIN, troll. running in circles looking for another
> > moment to fill with disinfo. You know dipso, you'll never be as good
> > as McMadman or Kenny Rahn at the disinfo game.... give up trying,
> > you're making a fool of yourself!-
>
> Typical Von Pein. When he's faced with the truth, he tries to change
> the subject.

he has no option Gil. It's not in the script he was provided....
LMFAO!

> He doesn't want to talk about carton 3376. He doesn't want to talk
> about Crescent invoice 3178.
> He doesn't want to talk about why NINE cartons are checked off on that
> invoice and the tenth, 3376, is not.
> The FBI's tracing of rifle C2766 was a joke. And when he's asked to
> defend it, he can't.
>
> HOW IS HE GOING TO HANDLE THE EVIDENCE I HAVE THAT THE MONEY ORDER WAS
> A FAKE ?

I doubt that's covered in the script either.... ya see, pea brain is
only allowed to create blogs and websites... his staff provides all
his posted answers to forums and USENET boards...

> We'll see this coming week when I post it.

expect his non-response to be *extra crispy*

aeffects

unread,

Feb 20, 2011, 2:05:34 PM2/20/11

to

that the best you can do, shithead? If so, I fear for the good folks
in Fresno. Maybe it's best for you to take your sorry ass back to
Samantha Browns tuna infested world -- perhaps she can find you a man
to play with, eh?

Walt

unread,

Feb 20, 2011, 2:12:36 PM2/20/11

to

On Feb 19, 8:50 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>> "Now you don't want to talk about it, but rather talk about the OTHER NINE cartons?" <<<
>
> Because, Kook Gil, the OTHER NINE cartons are also NOT listed on the
> document that you seem to think is so important.
>
> So, if those other 9 cartons aren't "faked" in some way, then it's
> obvious that the tenth carton to go with those other 9 is also a legit
> carton (3376).
>
> Just because you haven't found a Harborside document that says
> "3376" (or the other NINE cartons in the Feb. shipment) doesn't mean
> such a document never existed.
>
> Of course, all of this chasing your tail to look for documents about
> the rifle sale is totally immaterial and unimportant to begin with.
>
> Why?
>
> Because even if there were ZERO documents to verify the rifle
> transaction from Crescent to Klein's or from Klein's to
> Oswald....there would still be THE RIFLE ITSELF (C2766), with Oswald's
> own prints on it, staring you in the face every day from now till the
> end of time.
>
> Nothing and no one will change the following facts:
>
> The rifle that killed President John F. Kennedy is Mannlicher-Carcano
> #C2766, which is a gun that was found on the sixth floor of the TSBD
> on 11/22/63, and is a gun that had Lee Harvey Oswald's fingerprints
> and palmprint on it.

Damned LIAR!!.... The Mannlicher Carcano rifle bearing the serial
number C2766, that was found on the sixth floor of the TSBD was a
THROW DOWN gun.... It was not fired on 11/22/63. It was "WELL
HIDDEN" ( quote of police officers who saw the rifle that was WELL
HIDDEN) before the shooting and was buried beneath boxes of books at
the time of the shooting. THERE WERE NO IDENTIFIABLE PRINTS FOUND ON
THAT RIFLE!!! You scumbag liar!!

Walt

unread,

Feb 20, 2011, 2:15:24 PM2/20/11

to

Hey Stupid Bastard....I'm not the person who believes in absurd ideas
like the "Magic bullet theory" Anybody who accepts that BS should be
visiting a shrink regularly.

>
> Concerned Regards,
>
> Tim Brennan
> Sydney, Australia

> *Newsgroup(s) Commentator*- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Samantha Brown

unread,

Feb 20, 2011, 3:48:58 PM2/20/11

to

"aeffects" <aeffe...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5a5dff31-e58e-4c12...@z3g2000prz.googlegroups.com...

Your obvious obsession with me is obviously affecting adversely Heeley.
Perhaps it's time for you to slink away into the background. It may help you
preserve some dignity at least.
Re-read what you wrote and try to gain some insight into why you are
compelled to write such pathetic, boring nonsense. Tourettes? Some sort of
genetic defect perhaps? Are other members of your direct family morons also?
Could it be the result of living with a face that could curdle milk? Give it
some thought. If you work hard enough, you could turn your waste of a life
around.
Good luck.

Bud

unread,

Feb 20, 2011, 7:55:43 PM2/20/11

to

Rest, retard.

aeffects

unread,

Feb 20, 2011, 8:12:23 PM2/20/11

to

On Feb 20, 12:48 pm, "Samantha Brown" <samjbrow...@optusnet.com.au>
wrote:
> "aeffects" <aeffect...@gmail.com> wrote in message

can't protect douche-bags, tuna crotch... and, please, B-A-T-H-E! You
stink!

Message has been deleted

David Von Pein

unread,

Feb 28, 2011, 2:56:06 AM2/28/11

to

http://EducationForum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=17411&st=15&p=220279&#entry220279

http://EducationForum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=17411&st=30&p=220401&#entry220401

DAVID LIFTON SAID:

Oh pleez...I'm really sick and tired of seeing Dale Myers quoted "in
defense of" Vincent Bugliosi. Dale Myers was a paid ghost writer for
Bugliosi's book "Reclaiming History." Hundreds and hundreds of pages
were written/rewritten by Myers.

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

I have a very strong feeling that Mr. David S. Lifton doesn't know
what the hell he's babbling about here.

Vincent Bugliosi gave full credit to Dale K. Myers for Dale's writing
contributions in the "Acknowledgments" section of "Reclaiming
History". So that eliminates Mr. Myers as a "ghostwriter" right there,
because ghostwriters are NOT ACKNOWLEDGED AT ALL in the book that they
are helping to "ghostwrite".

And why on Earth David Lifton has it etched in his mind that Dale
Myers wrote (or rewrote) "hundreds and hundreds of pages" of
"Reclaiming History" (or even whole chapters, as Lifton has
practically alluded to in the past as well) is a real mystery to me.

Myers HELPED Bugliosi write PORTIONS of "Reclaiming History" (just as
the late Fred Haines did), and Vince has acknowledged that fact IN
PRINT right inside the book itself, but I'm at a loss to comprehend
just exactly why Lifton believes that Myers wrote practically all of
Chapter 1 ("Four Days In November").

Here is exactly what Vincent Bugliosi says on this matter, on Page
1515 of "Reclaiming History":

"Dale [Myers] helped me in the writing of several sections of
Book One [i.e., the first two-thirds of "Reclaiming History"], most
notably on acoustics, 'Four Days in November' [Chapter 1 of the book]
(particularly in the Oswald interrogations), and all matters dealing
with still photography. I am deeply grateful to Dale for lending his
time, energy, and considerable expertise to this literary project." --
Vince Bugliosi

And we can also know that David Lifton is full of crap about his
alleged "ghostwriting" allegation by taking another look at the
following comment made by Bugliosi's personal secretary, Rosemary
Newton:

"In response to David Lifton's outrageous, malicious and
contemptible lie regarding Vincent Bugliosi's book...where he claims
ghost writers wrote this great book (which will be read by generations
to come, long after Mr. Lifton and the rest of us are gone, including
all the die-hard conspiracy theorists)...I say, unequivocally, that NO
section of Mr. Bugliosi's book was ghostwritten." -- Rosemary Newton;
July 2007

Another reason, of course, to seriously doubt Lifton's claims about
Dale Myers is to re-examine the very same allegation that Lifton made
against author Patricia Lambert. On May 24, 2007, during an appearance
on Black Op Radio, Lifton came right out and made the bold and
ludicrous claim that Pat Lambert had written virtually ALL of the "Jim
Garrison/Oliver Stone" chapter in "Reclaiming History".

Well, within a few weeks of Lifton's May 2007 allegation, Ms. Lambert
put that issue to rest for all time (but I suppose Lifton thinks
Lambert was lying her ass off when she said this):

"For the record: I did not write one single word of Vince
Bugliosi's book, not even a footnote. I never saw Vince Bugliosi's
manuscript. I never saw any portion of Vince Bugliosi's manuscript. I
didn't even get a peek at the galleys. No comma, colon, semi-colon,
parenthesis, hyphen, apostrophe or period is my doing, to say nothing
of sentences, paragraphs and a whole chapter. .... I have indeed been
in touch with Bugliosi; we have talked on the telephone and I provided
him with some documents. That is the full extent of my involvement in
his book. I cannot imagine what prompted Lifton to make such a
stunningly false allegation about me. But false it is. I am not a
ghostwriter. I have never been a ghostwriter. I have no intention of
being a ghostwriter. Since I know unequivocally that Lifton is wrong
about the role he assigned to me, I see no reason to believe he is
correct about the other unidentified writers on whom he has bestowed
the credit for having written Vince Bugliosi's book. David Lifton owes
me an apology. David Lifton owes Vince Bugliosi an apology." --
Patricia Lambert; July 2, 2007

Therefore, since we KNOW beyond all doubt that David Lifton was 100%
dead wrong about his ghostwriting allegations that he levelled against
Pat Lambert, why in the world would anyone put any stock or faith in
ANYTHING ELSE this man named Lifton has to say about the SAME TOPIC of
"Reclaiming History" being ghostwritten by various individuals? That's
nutty.

DAVID LIFTON SAID:

There are two signed contracts (at least) between Myers and Bugliosi
and/or his publisher. The first contract was when Myers first hired
onto the project. The second contract (or contracts) occurred when
Myers and Bugliosi found they couldn't get along with one another
("creative differences" is the Hollywood term) and so a legal
"divorce" had to be arranged.

Both contracts included provisions that Dale Myers could not talk
about the role he played--in other words, complete "confidentiality"
was a part of the legal arrangement--both in the case of the original
"marriage" and then the "divorce."

[...]

Again, I repeat: it's absurd to be citing Dale Myers "in defense of
Bugliosi" since he (Myers) wrote such a substantial portion of both
"Reclaiming History," and of [the 2008 follow-up paperback volume]
"Four Days in November."

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

I'll let Dale Myers speak for himself on this (naturally, Mr. Lifton
won't believe a word uttered by Mr. Myers, but I'll pass these quotes
along anyway--just "for the record"):

"Lifton is questioning Bugliosi's credibility? Isn't Lifton the
guy that claimed at one time that snipers were firing from inside
artificial trees that had been installed and removed from the grassy
knoll by crane? .... Lifton's problem is not Bugliosi's book or the
secret gaggle of authors who supposedly wrote the master's work for
him. David Lifton's problem is himself. As long as he continues to
haunt the fringes of rational thought we can expect to be entertained
with more ridiculous and unfounded accusations." -- Dale K. Myers;
July 5, 2007

"As to Mr. Lifton's 'ghostwriting' allegations regarding Vincent
Bugliosi's book...charges and assertions without support don't mean
much to me. I note that in the year since Mr. Bugliosi's secretary
Rosemary Newton challenged Lifton...that Mr. Lifton failed to grab
what would apparently be (according to Lifton's 'ghostwriting' claims)
an easy $100 grand, and instead continues to trash-talk Mr. Bugliosi's
book. Seems to me there would be an easy way to settle all of this -
Why doesn't Lifton simply post the contracts for all of Mr. Bugliosi's
'ghostwriters' which he claims to be privy to? I know the idea of some
kind of evidentiary support for an allegation is a novel idea to most
conspiracy theorists, but come on! .... Extraordinary charges require
extraordinary proof, yes? As to your question: "Do you then
categorically deny that any such relationship existed between yourself
and Vince Bugliosi?", perhaps you [a person named "Duke", to whom
Myers was talking to here] missed Mr. Bugliosi's acknowledgements on
page 1515 of 'Reclaiming History'?" -- Dale K. Myers; May 7, 2008

http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2007/07/liftons-ghost.html

DAVID LIFTON SAID:

DVP: do yourself and others on this forum a favor, and "get real."

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

LOL. This is hilarious.

Just imagine, folks, David "JFK'S BODY WAS STOLEN OFF OF AIR FORCE
ONE" Lifton is telling another person to "get real". The irony and
pot/
kettle nature of that statement is so thick you could slice it with a
knife.

In reality, David, I got "real" a long time ago. In fact, it was a
short time after being exposed to your book of total fantasy ("Best
Evidence") in 1981 that I started to get more and more interested in
the JFK assassination.

And after looking into the REAL EVIDENCE in the case (vs. Mr. Lifton's
impossible-to-pull-off fantasy version of it), I soon began to realize
that President Kennedy was shot only from BEHIND, and the person who
shot him was most certainly a man named Lee Harvey Oswald.

But thanks for today's laugh-fest, David. I enjoyed it.

http://JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/2010/07/ghostwriting.html

http://Best-Evidence.blogspot.com

aeffects

unread,

Feb 28, 2011, 12:03:28 PM2/28/11

to

On Feb 27, 11:56 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> http://EducationForum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=17411&st=15&p=2...
>
> http://EducationForum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=17411&st=30&p=2...

>
> DAVID LIFTON SAID:
>
> Oh pleez...I'm really sick and tired of seeing Dale Myers quoted "in
> defense of" Vincent Bugliosi. Dale Myers was a paid ghost writer for
> Bugliosi's book "Reclaiming History." Hundreds and hundreds of pages
> were written/rewritten by Myers.
>
> DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

we understand you DVP, that your main focus in life is to be/act the
Vince Bugliosi-Reclaiming History lapdog... have you Davey me boyo
checked in with Rosemary to see if that job still stands... providing
adequate internet PR for that boat anchor sized tome is one of the
prime reasons of the book and its (hence) your dismal failure... What
say you David Von Pein?
>
...

aeffects

unread,

Feb 28, 2011, 12:20:30 PM2/28/11

to

On Feb 27, 11:56 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> http://EducationForum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=17411&st=15&p=2...
>
> http://EducationForum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=17411&st=30&p=2...
>

> DAVID LIFTON SAID:
>
> Oh pleez...I'm really sick and tired of seeing Dale Myers quoted "in
> defense of" Vincent Bugliosi. Dale Myers was a paid ghost writer for
> Bugliosi's book "Reclaiming History." Hundreds and hundreds of pages
> were written/rewritten by Myers.
>
> DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

btw, why didn't you respond on the Education Forum? You cowardly AND
chessy little shit you....

Bud

unread,

Feb 28, 2011, 1:26:52 PM2/28/11

to

<snicker> dismal failure? You retards think generating a huge number
of crackpot theories is a measure of success. But the real measure of
success for all the countless hours of "research and investigation"
put in by the wingnuts would be the number of conviction of
conspirators secured. And that number today is the same as it will
always be, zero. They`d need to exist in order to try and convict
them. And it`s a pretty good bet that most, if not all the conspiracy
crowd will be dead in the next 25 years, after which people will be
able to view this event clearly without the background noise of kooks
howling their objections. And the WCR will tower over the dust of it`s
critics like a beacon of light leading all who follow it to the truth.

>What
> say you David Von Pein?

Well, I`m not currently logged in under that name, but I`d say you
are a fine representative of the conspiracy retards. How did the
conspiracy stay uncovered so long with the likes of you on it`s trail?

> ...

Bud

unread,

Feb 28, 2011, 1:28:46 PM2/28/11

to

<snicker> "chessy", retard? What is that, someone who play chess?
Sally Chessy Raphael?

David Von Pein

unread,

Feb 28, 2011, 1:42:27 PM2/28/11

to

And, of course, for Healy's edification, I already did respond on The
Edu. Forum too. I posted there first, then posted it here (as usual).
I even posted a link to my Edu. post above in this thread.

Healy's so stoned he can't even click a link evidently.

aeffects

unread,

Feb 28, 2011, 2:00:35 PM2/28/11

to

shithead, Bugliosi made a major error, hiring your sorry ass to
promote his book on internet boards and forum, ya fucked up dipshit,
that's why you're media writing aspirations were hung out to dry....
deal with it toots!

Btw, shithead, you're a newbie to the Ed Forum... when you age some
there give me a shout...

and who gives a shit about Bud the Dudster? He's a sideshow here, been
so for years--when you shitheads find someone, ANYONE, that's A-N-Y-O-
N-E to deal with the 45 questions, posted here numerous times, you and
your team of lone nut dipshits are a collective, simpleminded
farce.... in other words, a *waste of bandwidth*

Carry on toots-e-roll

David Von Pein

unread,

Mar 4, 2011, 9:53:53 AM3/4/11

to

http://EducationForum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=17411&st=75&p=220721&#entry220721

DAVID LIFTON SAID (APPARENTLY WITH A STRAIGHT FACE TOO, INCREDIBLY
ENOUGH):

It was planned, in advance, and as part of the crime, to falsify the
autopsy findings.

You also might wish to reference Chapter 14, of Best Evidence, which
you said you read when you were in your early 20s, and which you said
got you interested in this case. How nice. But perhaps have forgotten
by now. Anyway, that's what "trajectory reversal" is/was all about.
The ability to shoot the President from one direction, but create the
false appearance that the shots came from another.

Also, if you read my book--and specifically that same chapter 14--you
will find that I certainly do not deny that the very effective
appearance was created, on Dealey Plaza that day, that shots (if not
"all the shots") were fired from the TSBD. Again, that's an
appearance, and I never denied that. It's all spelled out, chapter and
verse, in my book, right there in chapter 14.

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Oh, my poor, poor weak bladder!

So, David, the mentally retarded conspirators who planned President
Kennedy's assassination well in advance knew from the GET-GO that they
were going to have to fake all kinds of evidence (including the
alteration of the "best evidence" in the case--JFK's very own body).
Correct?

So, instead of merely firing the shots FROM THE PLACE WHERE THE
"PATSY" WAS LOCATED, the goofball assassins of JFK decided it would be
much, much better to try and frame Oswald by shooting ONLY from the
Grassy Knoll (or various other FRONTAL-ONLY locations). Is that
correct, DSL?

You're hilarious, David (in the comedic way).

But why do things the simple way (i.e., shoot Kennedy from the
"patsy's" window and using the patsy's gun), when you could do it via
an impossible-to-pull-off and ultra-complicated (not to mention,
NEEDLESS and totally RECKLESS) "trajectory reversal" way by shooting
the President from the exact OPPOSITE direction from where your fall
guy is situated. Right, David?

And, just think, this is the kind of topsy-turvy, backward, illogical
thinking we are treated to--year after year--by conspiracy kooks such
as David S. Lifton. Absolutely incredible.

In other words, in the world of the conspiracy kooks like Lifton, the
following rule is king:

---Since ALL of the evidence positively indicates that Lee
Harvey Oswald was solely responsible for the deaths of BOTH John
Kennedy and J.D. Tippit, it really means that THE EXACT OPPOSITE IS
TRUE, and Oswald was completely innocent of BOTH murders.---

Try and get a jury to accept the above philosophy (which is the EXACT
philosophy that a lot of online conspiracy theorists are currently
clinging to).

Here's a simple (and logical) question for David S. Lifton:

Why not just shoot Kennedy from the TSBD and forget about all the
cloak-and-dagger junk of altering the President's body...AND altering
all of the photos and films and X-rays, etc.?

Were the plotters TRYING to concoct the most senseless and ridiculous
and complicated assassination scenario ever devised by man?

Just asking.

And, btw, is there even ONE other conspiracy believer on this
Education Forum website who believes in David Lifton's "No Shots Came
From The Rear" scenario?

(If even ONE other CTer answers "Yes" to my last question, my bladder
will burst wide open.)

http://Best-Evidence.blogspot.com

aeffects

unread,

Mar 4, 2011, 1:03:47 PM3/4/11

to

On Mar 4, 6:53 am, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> http://EducationForum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=17411&st=75&p=2...

Oh I bet your misspent youth found many an occasion for pee'd pants,
eh son?

and, your opinion (*opinion* and wannabe it is) concerning this case
and print publishing in general means nada, ziltch, zippo. You're an
amateur, hon. Also, your steadfast, rear action defense of Myers and
daBugliosi is clearly foolishness -- you've actually demonstrated no
knowledge of how professional writers earn their keep and negotiate
their work(s)... you're simply another voice in the wilderness crying
for clarification, maintaining the illusion of literary competency --
ROTFLMFAO! ! !

Perhaps you should head back to that KFC deep fryer of yours...

> http://Best-Evidence.blogspot.com

drummist1965

unread,

Mar 4, 2011, 1:31:22 PM3/4/11

to

Good Lord, Healy. You are the guy who is "simply another voice in
the wilderness crying
for clarification, maintaining the illusion of literary competency".
You wrote the book!

aeffects

unread,

Mar 4, 2011, 2:14:00 PM3/4/11

to

son when you grow up and grow hair, instead of peachfuzz on your
balls, then and only then may you enter the conversation. So maintain
silence till aeffects-the-archangel suggests you speak, understand
troll?

Message has been deleted

David Von Pein

unread,

Mar 5, 2011, 4:32:55 AM3/5/11

to

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/870297c668bd9168/695e5eb3b8305a1d?#695e5eb3b8305a1d

TONY MARSH SAID:

>>> "The DPD couldn't figure out what the Walker bullet was." <<<

DVP SAID:

Huh? What are you saying? You think the DPD didn't realize CE573 was a
bullet? You think they thought it might have been a hand grenade or a
hardened turd or something?*

As for the DPD not being able to trace the Walker bullet to a
particular weapon -- of course they couldn't do that....they had no
rifle in evidence at all. Were they supposed to canvas the whole city
and collect every rifle from every Dallas citizen?

* = NOTE -- I realize that Tony Marsh's above comment was probably
referring to the color discrepancy concerning the Walker bullet
(silver vs. copper-colored), which has led some conspiracy theorists
to think that we've got yet another piece of phony/fake evidence
connected with Lee Harvey Oswald. I just felt like having some fun
with good ol' Marsh today. Because the way he worded his quote above,
it sounded like he thought the Dallas Police couldn't distinguish a
mashed bullet from a piece of celery.

http://DVP-Potpourri.blogspot.com