Chris
I am all for cracking down on fraud. Maybe if the fraud was reduced, there'd be enough money for those who genuinely need it.
Uppity
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Uppity, I support anti fraud measures. My concern is the approach. How intrusiveness will new anti fraud measures be? Home investigations? Monthly interviews? Anti fraud measures could also be a backdoor to reduce the number of legitimate recipients. It could be difficult to distinguish between anti fraud and bullying. Conservatives appear not to have anything constructive to offer ODSP. I'm concerned the program will become an easy scapegoat in bad economic times. |
Angela, Yes, very good point! Why scapegoat ODSP and OW? This province must lose millions and millions in personal and business income tax evasion (much more than social assistance fraud). So, why not go after people who refuse to pay their fair share? Because the wealthy and upper classes wouldn't accept that. Consider this point and then you'll know how disingenuous Conservatives have been. |
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Mike Harris has been out of power for almost 10 years. How about a current study? Though that wouldn't tell a true number as it doesn't include the fraud they don't know about. I've heard many stories from people who have reported fraud and nothing gets done about it. I know people who know people who are working f/t and not declaring it.
Uppity
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I don't see either the liberals or ndp helping us any more than the
conservatives. McGuinty has been a huge disappointment.
Uppity
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From: Chris Carey
Date: 29/05/2011 6:17:28 PM
To: odspfi...@googlegroups.com
What it means is to be supportive of those defrauding the system getting caught and punished for it. I have to wonder why anyone would be against that ..... Well, I know why they would ....
Uppity
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11.1 - Recovery of Overpayments
(under the heading) Overpayment Recovery Where Criminal Charges Have Proceeded and There is a Court Decision on the MatterWho is the tester and what is the test (what exact kind of proof are they looking for), when determining guilt using the balance of probabilities? I find this directive to be rather shocking.
To determine whether the overpayment is collectible, it will be necessary to carefully review the decision of the court. For example, if a recipient is acquitted without a finding by the court on the merits of the case, the overpayment should be considered to be collectible and dealt with in accordance with the procedures outlined in this directive.
Cases where the recipient is acquitted, and the finding of the court is that fraud has not been proven, will require careful review. An overpayment may still have occurred notwithstanding an acquittal on a fraud charge. There is a different standard of proof which applies to criminal and civil proceedings. In a criminal proceeding, the offence must be proven "beyond a reasonable doubt" and there must be evidence of a deliberate intent to deceive. In a civil proceeding, it is sufficient to establish "on a balance of probabilities" that money was improperly obtained.
----- Original Message -----From: Uppity WomanSent: Sunday, May 29, 2011 1:26 PMSubject: Re: [odspfireside: 37088 ]
I'm all for cracking down on fraud too, but not when you are presumed guilty until proven innocent which is opposite to our judicial system in Ontario and the rest of Canada. Too bad we could not get all ODSP recipients in Ontario to sign a petition demanding equal rights, which we are entitled to under the Canadian Charter of Rights signed by Prime Minister Harper last March at a world leaders conference and file a class action human rights complaint against ODSP and their underhanded tactics. Aren't all Canadians supposed to be treated equally?
This has to stop.Angela
I don't feel like we are treated unequally.
I have just as much right to voice my opinion as you do, as long as I am not breaking group rules. Just because I don't feel the same way you do about ODSP does not mean I have to be silent.
Uppity
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Subject: Re: [odspfireside: 37363 ] |
She likely has learned the hard way that, if you keep your mouth shut and be satisfied with staying home and out of their hair, she will live in peace
None of our stories have moved you to think differently? How can you say we're treated equally given what you read here? I used to think so, but that was before I tried to find employment or to return school. There are few support services or accommodations available.
I couldn't even qualify for a general bursary. Kids who drive around campus in luxury vehicles get these bursaries (literally). I was denied b/c I still have part of an osap loan unpaid. I can't afford to pay the outstanding balance because I receive $4.90 an hour.
You would say, get a job! I'm trying. I've been trying since last fall. So, if you have the answers, please tell me what I should do that I haven't done already.
Chris