SMTP password issue (or bug ???) in latest Linux Thunderbird version

[Denis BUCHER]

Dear all,

Under Linux (Ubuntu), the latest Thunderbird (17.0.2) doesn't ask
anymore for SMTP password which makes impossible to send any email !!!

Is someone aware of that bug and how it can be solved ?

Of course we checked the password manager and the password is not
present as smtp://

We also tried creating a new SMTP server entry, still not asking for
password !

We closed and open Thunderbird, we even deleted the IMAP password of the
same account, the IMAP password was asked again but the SMTP never.

I really think this looks like a bug !

What do you think ?

If someone had an advice it would be great because the user can't work
anymore

Denis

[goodwin]

On 02/08/2013 06:01 AM, Denis BUCHER wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> Under Linux (Ubuntu), the latest Thunderbird (17.0.2) doesn't ask
> anymore for SMTP password which makes impossible to send any email !!!
>

And this started when - when you upgraded to 17.02?

Have you been to Edit>Account Settings>Out Going Servers (bottom of left
hand column)?

What authentication method is being used there?

> Is someone aware of that bug and how it can be solved ?
>

I'm not seeing any such issue - maybe your password file got corrupted?
Could it be your password file is read only?

> Of course we checked the password manager and the password is not
> present as smtp://
>
> We also tried creating a new SMTP server entry, still not asking for
> password !
>
> We closed and open Thunderbird, we even deleted the IMAP password of the
> same account, the IMAP password was asked again but the SMTP never.
>
> I really think this looks like a bug !
>
> What do you think ?

I really think this is a bad entry/setup but then, it wouldn't be the
first time Tbird setup wizard had issues...

[Denis BUCHER]

Le 08.02.2013 17:14, goodwin a �crit :

> On 02/08/2013 06:01 AM, Denis BUCHER wrote:
>> Dear all,
>>
>> Under Linux (Ubuntu), the latest Thunderbird (17.0.2) doesn't ask
>> anymore for SMTP password which makes impossible to send any email !!!
>>
>
> And this started when - when you upgraded to 17.02?

Not sure. The user told me that it started by happening "from time to time".

> Have you been to Edit>Account Settings>Out Going Servers (bottom of left
> hand column)?

Yes

> What authentication method is being used there?

"Normal password" (this is correct, it works with exactly same options
on a Windows computer with Thunderbird 17.0.2)

>> Is someone aware of that bug and how it can be solved ?
>>
>
> I'm not seeing any such issue - maybe your password file got corrupted?

Maybe. Do you know where to find the password file and how to
"un-corrupt" it ? ;-)))

> Could it be your password file is read only?

I don't think so (but I cannot be sure) because the problem on that
account is only with SMTP and not with IMAP.

>> Of course we checked the password manager and the password is not
>> present as smtp://
>>
>> We also tried creating a new SMTP server entry, still not asking for
>> password !
>>
>> We closed and open Thunderbird, we even deleted the IMAP password of the
>> same account, the IMAP password was asked again but the SMTP never.
>>
>> I really think this looks like a bug !
>>
>> What do you think ?
>
> I really think this is a bad entry/setup but then, it wouldn't be the
> first time Tbird setup wizard had issues...

Yes that's highly possible, but do you have a hint on the file that
could be responsible for that?

Denis

[Mike Easter]

Denis BUCHER wrote:

> Under Linux (Ubuntu), the latest Thunderbird (17.0.2) doesn't ask
> anymore for SMTP password which makes impossible to send any email !!!
>
> Is someone aware of that bug and how it can be solved ?
>
> Of course we checked the password manager and the password is not
> present as smtp://
>
> We also tried creating a new SMTP server entry, still not asking for
> password !
>
> We closed and open Thunderbird, we even deleted the IMAP password of the
> same account, the IMAP password was asked again but the SMTP never.

I don't have the same problem or version, but I think I would...

- go to the Account settings outgoing and remove the particular smtp
server
- also in account settings for the IMAP account I would set it to
'default' server
- if possible in the meantime, I would be using another different smtp
server for the default if I had one, I have 4 different smtp servers I
can use, my connectivity providers, gmail's, live's, and yahoo's
- then I would close Tb
- then I would open Tb and create a new smtp account in the outgoing
with the appropriate settings for user and pass
- perhaps when you created the new account before, it wasn't
recognized as being the server which the IMAP account in question was
supposed to be using, as you didn't say that you removed the old one
- if the new server asks for user/pass and the manager gets populated,
then I would change the default back to the desired smtp.



--
Mike Easter

[Denis BUCHER]

Dear Mike,

Thanks a lot for your suggestions...

In fact we tried all of these steps but Thunderbird never asked for the
password... Which means there is no way to send emails from this account...

Denis

[Christian Riechers]

It may be a server issue. If TB cannot reach the server (for whatever
reason) it won't prompt you for the password.
Have you checked with your email provider?

--
Christian

[Mike Easter]

Christian Riechers wrote:

> Denis BUCHER wrote:
>> Mike Easter a écrit :
>>> Denis BUCHER wrote:
>>>
>>>> Under Linux (Ubuntu), the latest Thunderbird (17.0.2) doesn't ask
>>>> anymore for SMTP password which makes impossible to send any email !!!

>>> - if possible in the meantime, I would be using another different smtp
>>> server for the default

>> In fact we tried all of these steps but Thunderbird never asked for the
>> password... Which means there is no way to send emails from this
>> account...

> It may be a server issue. If TB cannot reach the server (for whatever
> reason) it won't prompt you for the password.
> Have you checked with your email provider?

There is something wrong (with someone or something) if the user can't
tell whether or not Tb is failing to connect with the server.

DB: What is the name of the mailserver which is the smtp in question?


--
Mike Easter

[Mike Easter]

Mike Easter wrote:

> There is something wrong (with someone or something) if the user can't
> tell whether or not Tb is failing to connect with the server.
>
> DB: What is the name of the mailserver which is the smtp in question?

Also to DB. Earlier you said:

> we checked the password manager
>

> the user can't work anymore
>

> The user told me that it started by happening "from time to time".
>

> we tried all of these steps

It is not crystal clear to me if you are personally hands-on the system
with the problem and the troubleshooting, or if someone else - the user
- who is telling you what is happening based on your troubleshooting
suggestions to her/him.

If the latter, that is a very awkward and tenuous combination here;
where someone else somewhere else is having a problem, but *you* are the
one talking here about a problem as it has been described to you, not as
you have seen for yourself.

That would also explain why it is possible that Tb is not connecting
with the smtp but that important information has not been mentioned here.


--
Mike Easter

[Denis BUCHER]

Le 08.02.2013 15:01, Denis BUCHER a écrit :
> Under Linux (Ubuntu), the latest Thunderbird (17.0.2) doesn't ask
> anymore for SMTP password which makes impossible to send any email !!!

I found a similar bug, Bug 516464 :
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=516464

Denis

[Ron K.]

Denis BUCHER on 2/9/2013 10:25 AM, keyboarded a reply:

A new line of thought for this issue. What is the age of the profile
having the problem? Currently TB uses a 4th Generation of PW Manager
that relies on sqlite storage. Prior generations used text files to
store encrypted strings. I am wondering if there is a migration
recognition error if this is an old profile containing both storage
schemes.

--
Ron K.
Who is General Failure, and why is he searching my HDD?
Kernel Restore reported Major Error used BSOD to msg the enemy!

[Mike Easter]

I'm not sure I completely understand all of the discussion in the 2009
Sep bug discussion of a problem by Wada, but I believe that the
observations there were related to/ based on/ a 'cause' being mentioned
earlier here by CR.

That is, if the engagement (or lack thereof) between the server and the
client doesn't result in a satisfactory transaction/connection to the
point of Tb 'understanding' that it is now time for the user/pass to be
administered, then Tb won't be discovering the absence of the user/pass
in the manager (because it never needs/ has an opportunity/ to give
user/pass) and then the user won't be prompted for the user/pass.

I repeat my earlier questions:

Do you have your hands and eyes directly (or remotely) on the system
with the problem?

What is the name of the smtp mail server? I presume that it is not the
server for your domain hsolutions.ch.


--
Mike Easter

[Denis BUCHER]

Le 09.02.2013 18:23, Mike Easter a écrit :
> Denis BUCHER wrote:
>> Denis BUCHER a écrit :
>>> Under Linux (Ubuntu), the latest Thunderbird (17.0.2) doesn't ask
>>> anymore for SMTP password which makes impossible to send any email !!!

> I repeat my earlier questions:
>
> Do you have your hands and eyes directly (or remotely) on the system
> with the problem?

Yes, but we did exactly the same configuration with same account and
same server on Thunderbird on a Windows PC and Thunderbird on a Ubuntu
PC. I works on the Windows version, not on Ubuntu PC. That's why I am
pretty sure the problem cannot be on the server. Furthermore many people
connect to the server without any problem. But I can be wrong, of course.

> What is the name of the smtp mail server? I presume that it is not the
> server for your domain hsolutions.ch.

I sent you this info by private email.

Denis

[Denis BUCHER]

Le 08.02.2013 19:20, Christian Riechers a écrit :
>>>> Under Linux (Ubuntu), the latest Thunderbird (17.0.2) doesn't ask
>>>> anymore for SMTP password which makes impossible to send any email !!!

> It may be a server issue. If TB cannot reach the server (for whatever
> reason) it won't prompt you for the password.
> Have you checked with your email provider?

Yes it works perfectly from Windows version.

Denis

[Denis BUCHER]

Le 08.02.2013 22:01, Mike Easter a écrit :
> It is not crystal clear to me if you are personally hands-on the system
> with the problem and the troubleshooting, or if someone else - the user
> - who is telling you what is happening based on your troubleshooting
> suggestions to her/him.

I checked everything myself, and I wouldn't ask anything here if I was
not sure of the facts. But I can be wrong on the analysis, of course.

Denis

[Mike Easter]

Denis BUCHER wrote:

> I sent you this info by private email.

My From is invalid.

I will watch my nntp.nym <at> gmail.com address.


--
Mike Easter

[goodwin]

On 02/09/2013 09:41 AM, Denis BUCHER wrote:
> Le 09.02.2013 18:23, Mike Easter a écrit :
>> Denis BUCHER wrote:
>>> Denis BUCHER a écrit :
>>>> Under Linux (Ubuntu), the latest Thunderbird (17.0.2) doesn't ask
>>>> anymore for SMTP password which makes impossible to send any email !!!
>
>> I repeat my earlier questions:
>>
>> Do you have your hands and eyes directly (or remotely) on the system
>> with the problem?
>
> Yes, but we did exactly the same configuration with same account and
> same server on Thunderbird on a Windows PC and Thunderbird on a Ubuntu
> PC. I works on the Windows version, not on Ubuntu PC.

This would increase the liklihood of a permissions issue - where is your
profile located?

> That's why I am
> pretty sure the problem cannot be on the server. Furthermore many people
> connect to the server without any problem. But I can be wrong, of course.
>
>> What is the name of the smtp mail server? I presume that it is not the
>> server for your domain hsolutions.ch.
>
> I sent you this info by private email.

you have ME's email addy?

And if you do, its not helpful (gordering on rude, actually) to bypass
the group with any info which may be useful since others are taking time
in attempting to help.

[Mike Easter]

goodwin wrote:

> Denis BUCHER wrote:

>> Yes, but we did exactly the same configuration with same account and
>> same server on Thunderbird on a Windows PC and Thunderbird on a Ubuntu
>> PC. I works on the Windows version, not on Ubuntu PC.
>
> This would increase the liklihood of a permissions issue - where is your
> profile located?

That would cause problems for the IMAP as well, but he said the IMAP works.



--
Mike Easter

[Denis BUCHER]

Finally we even deleted the password file in case it was corrupted but
still the same problem !

I have an idea, what do you think if the Ubuntu SSL required level was
too low for the server which would make the SSL handshake impossible ?

Denis

[Mike Easter]

Denis BUCHER wrote:

> I have an idea, what do you think if the Ubuntu SSL required level was
> too low for the server which would make the SSL handshake impossible ?

I have 6 different mail servers which I have tested using Ub-based Mint
which use SSL, one IMAP, 2 POP and 3 SMTP which work just fine.

This Mint that I'm on right now is 'outdated' Mint 11, so its Ub repos
don't update any more and consequently I'm still using Tb 16.0.1 so I
don't have the same v. Tb you are using with linux.


--
Mike Easter

[goodwin]

On 02/12/2013 03:28 AM, Denis BUCHER wrote:
> Le 09.02.2013 20:09, Mike Easter a �crit :

I don't think thats possible - I've never heard of differing levels of
SSL - it is or isn't.

Are you receiving an error message - I don't believe you have mentioned it?

[Christian Riechers]

SSL is a protocol. Part of that protocol is the negotiation of the
cipher to be used for the session between the two parties involved. The
negotiated cipher is the lowest common denominator both parties do
support. If there's no common cipher, the session will fail.
So 'differing levels of SSL' may not be the correct technical term,
however, it's kind of right. SSL isn't just black or white.
It's more likely that there's a problem with a certificate though that's
causing a SSL session to fail.

--
Christian

[Denis BUCHER]

Le 12.02.2013 15:55, goodwin a écrit :
>> I have an idea, what do you think if the Ubuntu SSL required level was
>> too low for the server which would make the SSL handshake impossible ?
>>
>
> I don't think thats possible - I've never heard of differing levels of
> SSL - it is or isn't.
>
> Are you receiving an error message - I don't believe you have mentioned it?

No error message... (That's always the worst case

Very mysterious...

Denis

[Denis BUCHER]

Le 12.02.2013 21:41, Christian Riechers a écrit :
>>> I have an idea, what do you think if the Ubuntu SSL required level was
>>> too low for the server which would make the SSL handshake impossible ?
>>>
>>
>> I don't think thats possible - I've never heard of differing levels of
>> SSL - it is or isn't.
>>
>> Are you receiving an error message - I don't believe you have
>> mentioned it?
>
> SSL is a protocol. Part of that protocol is the negotiation of the
> cipher to be used for the session between the two parties involved. The
> negotiated cipher is the lowest common denominator both parties do
> support. If there's no common cipher, the session will fail.
> So 'differing levels of SSL' may not be the correct technical term,
> however, it's kind of right. SSL isn't just black or white.
> It's more likely that there's a problem with a certificate though that's
> causing a SSL session to fail.

Dear Christian,

The server is cirrus.hsolutions.ch / port 25 / STARTTLS / Normal
password, if you can see something wrong tell me. Anyway I tested the
SSL server with many "SSL online checkers" and everything seems fine,
although I recently had problems with people having Safari on MacOS or
old browsers. And I don't exactly see why, is the security of our SSL
certificate or server too high ?

Denis

[Mike Easter]

Denis BUCHER wrote:

> The server is cirrus.hsolutions.ch / port 25 / STARTTLS / Normal
> password, if you can see something wrong tell me. Anyway I tested the
> SSL server with many "SSL online checkers" and everything seems fine,
> although I recently had problems with people having Safari on MacOS or
> old browsers. And I don't exactly see why, is the security of our SSL
> certificate or server too high ?

About port 25 STARTTLS...

Here's a discussion of SSL, TLS, and STARTTLS that suggests between the
lines why most servers don't use port 25 for secure connections.

https://www.fastmail.fm/help/technology_ssl_vs_tls_starttls.html

There is a section in there called:

SSL/TLS vs plaintext/STARTTLS port numbers
SMTP uses port 25, but SSL/TLS encrypted SMTP uses port 465 At some
point, it was decided that having 2 ports for every protocol was
wasteful, and instead you should have 1 port that starts off as
plaintext, but the client can upgrade the connection to an SSL/TLS
encrypted one. This is what STARTTLS was created to do. - There were a
few problems with this though.

< snip a number of lines of discussion of the problems & solutions >

Then comes the section called:

SMTP STARTTLS as an exception

... and the bottom line to that par is

Currently, things seem relatively randomly split between people using
SMTP SSL/TLS encrypted over port 465, or people using SMTP with STARTTLS
upgrading over port 587.



--
Mike Easter

[Ron K.]

Denis BUCHER on 2/15/2013 5:18 AM, keyboarded a reply:

When I began using the internet in 1997, SSL base encryption was using
40 bit with 128 bit considered high encryption, where high was
restricted by U.S. export laws. Those levels have crept upwards since
then. I have one correspondent that digitally signs with a 2048 bit key.
So older browsers may have outdated root certs with key levels below
what you are using.

I don't know if I am tossing a red herring into this discussion by
trying to answer the closing question above.

[Christian Riechers]

Not sure what "SSL online checkers" you tried, but something isn't quite
right with your server.

> openssl s_client -connect cirrus.hsolutions.ch:25
CONNECTED(00000003)
3073681032:error:140770FC:SSL routines:SSL23_GET_SERVER_HELLO:unknown
protocol:s23_clnt.c:766:
---
no peer certificate available
---
No client certificate CA names sent
---
SSL handshake has read 7 bytes and written 320 bytes
---
New, (NONE), Cipher is (NONE)
Secure Renegotiation IS NOT supported
Compression: NONE
Expansion: NONE
---
>

Are you sure cirrus.hsolutions.ch is the correct server for SMTP? In any
case, it doesn't seem to respond to SSL connection requests on port 25.
Trying port 443 (https) instead it works fine.

> openssl s_client -connect cirrus.hsolutions.ch:443

You can also compare that with a working SSL handshake with the Yahoo
SMTP server:
> openssl s_client -connect smtp.mail.yahoo.com:465

With the Yahoo server and no further options being used with the openssl
command a TLSv1/SSLv3 session is negotiated, with AES256 as cipher.

Failure to establish the SSL session to the SMTP server would explain
why you don't get a password prompt with your TB.

The above may give you some more ideas for troubleshooting.

Not sure to what 'problems with people having Safari on MacOS or
old browsers' you're refering to, but I'd not be surprised to see
problems when someone is trying to connect to a SMTP server using a browser.

--
Christian

[Christian Riechers]

Update:
Using STARTTLS the handshake does indeed work:
> openssl s_client -connect cirrus.hsolutions.ch:25 -starttls smtp

Does this work on your Ubuntu machine?

If yes, that means the problem is indeed with Thunderbird.

Can you then post your Troubleshooting Information?

--
Christian

[Christian Riechers]

Asymmetric keys from a public/private key pair need to be longer than
symmetric keys. With SSL asymmetric keys are typically 2048 bit RSA keys
used for authentication.
With SSL, symmetric keys are used for encryption. For the AES cipher
keys are typically 128 or 256 bits long. AES128 is still considered
secure today.

--
Christian

[Ron K.]

Christian Riechers on 2/15/2013 6:24 PM, keyboarded a reply:

Thank you for pointing out there are two key schemes.

[goodwin]

yes, there are - for 2 different uses - 1 for authentication and 1 for
encryption - 2 different animals as far as servers are concerned.

[Mike Easter]

Denis BUCHER wrote:

>> Update:
>> Using STARTTLS the handshake does indeed work:
>> > openssl s_client -connect cirrus.hsolutions.ch:25 -starttls smtp
>>
>> Does this work on your Ubuntu machine?
>> If yes, that means the problem is indeed with Thunderbird.
>> Can you then post your Troubleshooting Information?
>

> We tried it on the Ubuntu machine and this is the result :
>
> $ openssl s_client -connect cirrus.hsolutions.ch:25 -starttls smtp
> connect: Connection refused
> connect:errno=111

I have a live.com account which uses STARTTLS for its smtp server on
port 587

On my Mint which is Ub, the smtp server answers appropriately to openssl

openssl s_client -crlf -connect smtp.live.com:587 -starttls smtp

CONNECTED(00000003)
depth=2 /CN=Microsoft Internet Authority
verify error:num=20:unable to get local issuer certificate
verify return:0
---
Certificate chain

etc etc etc

---
250 OK


And I can send mail with my Tb via that server.

My versions are different from yours; this Ub is Natty and the Tb is 16.0.1

If I would enable a Tb smtp logging session, I would be able to see what
transactions are recorded in the log.

--
Mike Easter

[pavel...@gmail.com]

Same thing just now happened to me, only on Windows, not Linux. After trying almost anything I remembered latest update of Avast and that in the history it has several times presented me with some IT challenges and just to be sure I tried to temporarily disable all the shields and started Thunderbird again. Voila - I was immediately prompted for POP3 password, then I opened one of the waiting drafts, clicked Send and again - SMTP password prompt. So this may not be a Thunderbird issue at all. Hope it helps to someone... However storing the right passwords and enabling Avast again did not help, the problem was back, Avast is preventing Thunderbird somehow from sending the password to server. I am using SSL so now I unchecked "Test SSL connection" and sending of emails is now working. Disabling the email shield should probably resolved everyone's problems with this. I'll try reporting this to Avast.

[Mike Easter]

pavel...@gmail.com wrote:
> Same thing just now happened to me, only on Windows, not Linux.

... which 'same thing' may be viewed in this old Feb thread in the GG
archive
https://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.thunderbird/browse_frm/thread/742882edcb12a283/34ef61d211042fd2?hl=en%22ef61d211042fd2


Denis Bucher was not being asked for password when trying to send mail
with his IMAP account. He never reported solving the problem.

> After trying almost anything I remembered latest update of Avast and
> that in the history it has several times presented me with some IT
> challenges and just to be sure I tried to temporarily disable all
> the shields and started Thunderbird again. Voila - I was immediately
> prompted for POP3 password, then I opened one of the waiting drafts,
> clicked Send and again - SMTP password prompt. So this may not be a
> Thunderbird issue at all.

Many people recommend turning off^1 the AV email scan so that bad things
won't happen to your mail. Leave the realtime scanning operative.

> Hope it helps to someone... However storing the right passwords and
> enabling Avast again did not help, the problem was back, Avast is
> preventing Thunderbird somehow from sending the password to server. I
> am using SSL so now I unchecked "Test SSL connection" and sending of
> emails is now working. Disabling the email shield should probably
> resolved everyone's problems with this. I'll try reporting this to
> Avast.

^1 http://kb.mozillazine.org/Thunderbird_:_FAQs_:_Anti-virus_Software
Many experts recommend turning off email scanning in antivirus software
since it provides no added protection and corrupts and destructs email
folders much more often than viruses and other malware do. It also eats
up CPU power, slows down sending and receiving, and causes many problems
such as time-outs and changes in account settings. To be safe it's
enough to make sure your antivirus software is monitoring your whole
computer, in other words make sure that it provides real-time protection
(also called "background guard" etc.) and that this is turned on.
>


--
Mike Easter