'Not the coccyx' - and 'Todd's not British'
tgas...@earthlink.net
Anne Roger's post reminded me of a humorous exchange I had with retired
Australian surgeon Dr. Peter Moran.
Anne's mention of "the British" reminded me of a TRULY BIZZARE FACT
about British radiologist JGB Russell...
See below.
My further comments are interspersed ####.
Anne Rogers wrote:
> so today I went for my first visit with an American OBGYN, it was time for
> my annual exam (first in my life actually, they don't call you for smears in
> my part of the UK until you are 25, so I'd never had one, but had agreed
> with my GP in the UK that I'd get one before Christmas), as a result of the
> exam, he feels I must have broken [my sacrum or coccyx - see below - TDG], or at the very least damaged and
> triggered an imflamatory response, after the discussion we had, I don't
> disbelieve him
#### I am interested in this OBGYN's "triggered an [a systemic? - TDG]
inflammatory response" hypothesis.
> but one thing cropped up, which was that when I said, but I
> gave birth lieing on my side, so there was no pressure on it, he said,
> that's what the British think! My first thought was Todd's not British!
#### I think he should have said the baby "breaks the coccyx" - or
rather - the uterus forcing the baby through the pelvic outlet forces
the coccyx to go straight relative to the sacrum - assuming your
sacrococcygeal joint was fixed with the coccyx sticking into the pelvic
outlet.
####f See my humorous exchange with Surgeon Peter Moran, reproduced
below.
#### Regarding "Todd's not British" - who knows - maybe I am...
>>>>BEGIN excerpt of "The US is still a British Colony."
http://www.civil-liberties.com/books/
"The Informer" wrote:
...I wonder if you have seen the main and obvious point? This Treaty
was signed in 1783, the war was over in 1781. If the United States
defeated England, how is the king granting rights to America, when we
were now his equal in status? We supposedly defeated him in the
Revolutionary War! So why would these supposed patriot Americans sign
such a Treaty, when they knew that this would void any sovereignty
gained by the Declaration of Independence and the Revolutionary War? If
we had won the Revolutionary War, the king granting us our land would
not be necessary, it would have been ours by his loss of the
Revolutionary War. To not dictate the terms of a peace treaty in a
position of strength after winning a war; means the war was never won.
Think of other wars we have won, such as when we defeated Japan. Did
McArther allow Japan to dictate to him the terms for surrender? No way!
All these men did is gain status and privilege granted by the king and
insure the subjection of future unaware generations. Worst of all, they
sold out those that gave their lives and property for the chance to be
free.
When Cornwallis surrendered to Washington he surrendered the battle,
not the war. Read the Article of Capitulation signed by Cornwallis at
Yorktown (footnote 3)
Jonathan Williams recorded in his book, Legions of Satan, 1781, that
Cornwallis revealed to Washington during his surrender that "a holy war
will now begin on America, and when it is ended America will be
supposedly the citadel of freedom, but her millions will unknowingly be
loyal subjects to the Crown."...."in less than two hundred years the
whole nation will be working for divine world government. That
government that they believe to be divine will be the British Empire."
All the Treaty did was remove the United States as a liability and
obligation of the king. He no longer had to ship material and money to
support his subjects and colonies. At the same time he retained
financial subjection through debt owed after the Treaty, which is still
being created today; millions of dollars a day.
>>>>END excerpt of "The US is still a British Colony."
http://www.civil-liberties.com/books/
#### I think I remember being told that I have English and Scottish
blood in me. : )
> Not
> lieing on my back in child birth was intially gut instinct,
#### Early editions of Williams Obstetrics indicated that women
spontaneously assume upright positions in late second stage. Also,
French surgeon Michel Odent has noted that women allowed to feel
unobserved during childbirth spontaneously get off their sacra as part
of the "fetus ejection" reflex.
ANNE ROGERS CONTINUED...
> lifelong
> discussions with my mum, with her being angry about having to lie on her
> back to give birth and saying she wanted to be upright,
> it just made sense
> that lieing on your back was illogical, then reinforced by reading I did in
> my first pregnancy, which as it was on the internet, must have been a good
> mix or US and British, taught in antenatal class (by a teacher who had had
> at least one of her children in the US) etc. so it hardly seems to me to be
> a British thing or belief, it seems to me to be a minority belief, routed in
> a hell of a lot of fact, though I accept it's not going to be protective
> every single time.
>
> Maybe in his age group of OB, it is a British thing,
##### He probably remembers the following well:
>>>>>BEGIN excerpt of UK Birth Follies
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.kids.pregnancy/msg/91bc5c007a1fc63e
In 1982, Sheila Kitzinger publicly protested forcing laboring women
into the
supine position as she led a march of thousands on London's Royal Free
Hospital.
The Times (London) of April 5, 1982 carried an article titled, "5,000
join
natural childbirth rally," and reported that Ms. Kitzinger and the
National
Childbirth Trust had organized the rally after a woman wrote to a local
newspaper to complain that she was made to lie supine during birth.
According to the article, a television newsreader named Anna Ford told
the
rally that she had been able to give birth in the squatting position at
West
London Hospital. Ms. Ford reportedly said other people should not be
denied
that right.
On July 15, 1982, The Times carried a follow-up article:
"Professor Ian Craft, head of the department of obstetrics and
gynecology at
London's Royal Free Hospital and Mr. Yehudi Gordon, senior lecturer,
are
resigning...
"Professor Craft is said to have resigned for personal reasons, but he
is
known to have been disturbed by the Active Birth Movement (ABM)
campaign
against his teaching that women and their babies are least at risk if
delivery takes place with the mother on her back so that full use can
be
made of modern monitoring equipment."
On November 1, 1982, The Times reported that 2,750, mostly midwives,
attended the Active Birth Movement's first conference on October 30,
1982,
and that tickets were sold out three weeks in advance.
The day before, on October 31, 1982, The Times reported, "Sheila
Kitzinger,
doyen of them all, was personally enthusiastic about squatting
positions and
was pressing on with her campaign for home delivery as well as direct
entry
into midwifery." Significantly, Ms. Kitzinger was quoted as saying,
"the
territory is controlled by the obstetricians."
BIZARRELY, UK ADOPTED SEMISITTING/"THE RECLINING POSITION"...
For whatever reason, semi-sitting became the most common delivery
position
in the UK by 1989. [Garcia J, Garforth S. Labour and delivery routines
in
English consultant maternity units. Midwifery 1989;5:155-62]
British radiology consultant JGB Russell is the reference for my up to
30%
figure...
"[T]he outlet increases with moulding by approximately 20-30 per cent."
[Russell JGB. Moulding of the pelvic outlet. J Obstet Gynaec Brit Cwlth
1969;76:817-20.
NOTE: The up to 30% is a calculation of the AREA of the pelvic outlet
denied when the sacrum is jammed into the pelvic outlet because of poor
delivery position of the mother.
NOTE ALSO: In 1973, Ohlsen verified Russell's 20% figure on
Borell and Fernstrom's 1957 intrapartum x-rays. See:
http://home1.gte.net/gastaldo/ part2ftc.html]
After Ohlsen reported in 1973 that the authors of Williams Obstetrics
were
still saying that pelvic outlet diameters don¹t change (after Williams
demonstrated massive change in 1911!), that¹s when the authors of
Williams
Obstetrics lied and said dorsal widens which is the OB lie that
preceded
the above mentioned OB lie of leaving that OB lie in their text when I
called it to their attention.
JGB Russell, incidentally, is part of the problem. He demonstrated a
MINOR
(transverse) sacroiliac motion then
pretended his minor sacroiliac motion was more important that the MAJOR
(sagittal) sacral tip motion demonstrated radiographically by Borell
and
Fernstrom. For details, see http://home1.gte.net/gastaldo/
part2ftc.html.
Also noteworthy - A TRULY BIZARRE FACT: Russell promoted placing women
semisitting - even as he
reported the "20-30 per cent" figure.
>>>>>END excerpt of UK Birth Follies
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.kids.pregnancy/msg/91bc5c007a1fc63e
> he's around 60ish and
> in some discussion I've had recently about older British OBs, it seems many
> are skilled in doing assisted deliveries in left lateral, or even hands and
> knees, a skill they don't seem to have passed on to younger ones. But as you
> go down the generations, it seems to be those that go with get off your back
> are those who support natural childbirth, no matter where in the world you
> are.
>
> I seemed to have rambled, but if anyone has any hints on this kind of
> problem
#### Again, I am interested in the American OBGYN's hypothesis about
(systemic?) inflammation occuring following the sacrococcygeal insult.
I'd be most grateful, in someways it's good that I can't blame my
> pelvic floor for discomfort I was suffering during intercourse, but in
> otherways it was a shame, I was blaming my ongoing SPD on a less than
> perfect pelvic floor, but that may now be less of an excuse than I thought.
>
> Cheers
>
> Anne
^^^^SACRUM OR COCCYX
> he said I must have broken
> my tailbone (but he then said sacrum, not coccyx, so I'm confused), but that
> wasn't really what I was getting at, it was that he thought not being on
> your back for childbirth was a British thing, which I have no evidence to
> think it is.
>
> I've also been googling and it seems broken is not really a good word
> regarding the rear end as the bones round there are really several bones
> with bits of cartilidge between them and it's the cartilidge that gets
> damaged, no actual bone breaking.
>
Anne,
Your confusion is understandable.
When I spoke to Dr. Bradley (of Bradley Method fame), he too was
confused about the sacrum and coccyx. Actually, he was not aware of
sacroiliac motion at term - which explains why his "Bradley Classic" is
semisitting - closure of the birth canal up to 30%.
Also, note that when describing pelvic dimensions, the 21st (2001)
edition of Williams
Obstetrics says NOT THE COCCYX, as in,
"In obstructed labor caused by a narrowing of the...pelvic
outlet, the prognosis for vaginal delivery often depends on the length
of
the posterior sagittal diameter of the pelvic outlet (p. 56)...The
posterior
triangle [of the pelvic outlet]...is limited at its apex by the tip of
the
last sacral vertebra (NOT THE COCCYX) (p. 437)...
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=RZfI7.38699%24S4.3436954%4...
ad1.prod.itd.earthlink.net
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/1332
And right here on misc.kids.pregnancy, Surgeon Peter Moran got the
coccyx confused with the sacrum, as in,
>>>>BEGIN excerpt of
Not the coccyx (Surgeon Moran vs 'Gastaldo's nonsense')
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/67b266f87f655364
##### Surgeon Moran wrote:
"Don't buy Gastaldo's nonsense. There may be virtues to a squatting
position for childbirth but enlarging the pelvic outlet is not one of
them.
The pelvis is an almost completely rigid ligamentous and bony ring..."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=vWfI7.165%242Z5.10020%40oz...
om.au
##### Surgeon Moran rarely reads more than a few lines of my posts
(see
above) so he may not be aware of the fact noted above: The MD authors
of
Williams Obstetrics *published* "Gastaldo's nonsense" (at Gastaldo's
request) - but they left in their text the obstetric nonsense that that
called Gastaldo's attention to their text!
See again: Hannah et al.'s term breech tomfoolery/Gherman et al.'s
fetal
radiation fraud...
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=CEDC7.3353%24I4.315998%40n...
##### Oddly, Surgeon Moran focused on the COCCYX:
"[I am] an anatomist and surgeon with much experience of examining and
performing surgery around the coccyx and also some experience
of obstetrics...Todd Gastaldo [on the other hand] displays he has only
third
hand hearsay mythology of [obstetrics] every time he opens his
mouth..."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=c%25zI7.901%242Z5.46798%40...
.com.au
##### I do not doubt that Surgeon Moran has much experience examining
and
performing surgery around the coccyx - it's just that I've never
focused on
the coccyx. The coccyx is NOT the same as the sacral tip - which I DO
focus
upon...
##### The sacral tip is part of the sacrococcygeal joint, with which
Surgeon Moran is familiar...
"...I am a surgeon, which entails a very intimate knowledge of anatomy.
My
obstetrics is rusty. But I challenge you to find the evidence to
support
what Gastaldo claims...Examine your own coccyx. That bump at the end
of
the spinal column that
you sit on is not the coccyx, that is in most people simply the
sacrococcygeal joint, the coccyx itself being angled further forwards
from
there...What are you disputing?, [my contention]...that lying down does
not
directly affect the
coccyx? That is easily observable fact..."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=GvAI7.911%242Z5.47139%40oz...
om.au
##### Surgeon Moran - with his "very intimate knowledge of anatomy" -
titillated me with his *indirect* mention of the sacral tip (part of
the
sacrococcygeal joint) - but then he went back to the coccyx. : (
##### Cathy Weeks took the surgeon's coccygeal bait:
"Lying down absolutely WOULD affect [the coccyx]. When there is a baby
pressing
on it, lying down would provide resistance against the baby's
pressure."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=bbef37b2.0111150808.462beb...
##### Charlotte Millington also took the surgeon's coccygeal bait:
"Basically, when you squat, your coccyx ceases to be tucked under you,
which
at the very least, means more room for a baby to pass."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=KOzI7.10930%24kb.762617%40...
##### Maybe I'm giving Surgeon Moran too much credit - but I think he
*intentionally* proffered coccygeal bait instead of bringing his "very
intimate knowledge of anatomy" to bear on the subject at hand - the
sacral
tip...
##### Yes, the coccyx *is* right there - Cathy and Charlotte are right
-
the coccyx would provide resistance/make it harder for the baby to pass
-
but only relatively slightly...
##### Even when the sacrococcygeal joint isn't working well and the
coccyx
is stuck/sticking into the birth canal - thanks to the powerful uterus
-
babies have a habit of blowing right past - correcting the problem - at
least straightening the coccyx relative to the sacrococcygeal joint.
Pre-
and post- x-rays bear this out.
##### Now, obviously it can't HELP to have the coccyx stuck in the
birth
canal - but there is FAR greater biomechanical problem when the woman
is
semisitting or dorsal...
##### The far greater biomechanical problem is the SACRAL end of the
sacrococcygeal joint - the sacral tip...
##### When the woman is lying on her sacral tip as in semisitting and
dorsal delivery - she is closing her pelvic outlet up to 30%.
##### I quoted the words NOT THE COCCYX from Williams Obstetrics...
##### I wrote in my Nov. 13 post - the one that likely stimulated
Surgeon
Moran's
Nov. 14 pretense...
******ATTENTION MDs: According to the 21st (2001) edition of Williams
Obstetrics: "In obstructed labor caused by a narrowing of the...pelvic
outlet, the prognosis for vaginal delivery often depends on the length
of
the posterior sagittal diameter of the pelvic outlet (p. 56)...The
posterior
triangle [of the pelvic outlet]...is limited at its apex by the tip of
the
last sacral vertebra (NOT THE COCCYX) (p. 437)...
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=RZfI7.38699%24S4.3436954%4...
ad1.prod.itd.earthlink.net
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/1332
##### Well, in defense of Surgeon Moran I did write ATTENTION MDs.
Surgeon
Moran (with his "very intimate knowledge of anatomy") is an M*B* - not
an
MD - so perhaps that is why he missed the words: NOT THE COCCYX...
##### Or perhaps - as is his wont - Surgeon Moran just didn't read
past the
first few lines of my post...
##### Perhaps Surgeon Moran won't read past the first few lines of
THIS
post...inspite of the fact that his name is on the subject line and in
the
first few lines (see above).
##### Just in case Surgeon Moran *IS* reading this post, I will repeat
the
REASON "my" 30% claim is important...
>>>>BEGIN key excerpt of "THE birth issue"...<<<<<
The force that CLOSES the birth canal up to 30% is the MD or CNMwife
(or
Western culture/television) telling the woman to deliver on her
back/buttocks - on her sacrum.
The force that OPENS the birth canal up to 30% is the uterus pushing
the
fetal presenting part - usually the fetal head - through the pelvic
outlet.
("[T]he fetal head serves as an internal pelvimeter..." [Williams
Obstetrics
2001:58])
Thus a woman who is squatting/standing is ONLY opening her birth canal
up to
30% if her uterus is pushing her baby's head through the outlet; but a
woman
who is delivering semisitting or dorsal is ALWAYS closing her birth
canal up
to 30%. See below for details*******...
MDs and CNMwives *intentionally* confuse the issue because what they
are
doing is so obviously criminal.
How bad is the crime?
Well, first of all there are the unexplained brain bleeds in an
estimated
4.6% of "healthy" term neonates.
And then there are the unexplained DENTS (depression fractures) in baby
skulls - not to mention the unexplained DEATHS - Chalmers has noted
that
Australian obstetrician Norman Beischer, MD once claimed that 10 to 15%
of
stillbirths are just fine right before delivery....
See Dents in baby skulls/Navy research psychologists to help babies?
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=YfiD7.279%24HO5.23742%40newsr
ead1.prod.itd.earthlink.net
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/1309
Also, there is the senseless PARALYSIS of babies by MDs...
The paralysis is associated with GRUESOME spinal manipulation of most
babies
at birth by MDs...
MD-obstetricians routinely violently PUSH on babies' spines (by
whipping the uterus with oxytocin/Cytotec) - with
vaginas/birth canals stupidly closed up to 30%....
When the shoulders get "slightly" stuck (as they often do when the
birth canal is closed up to 30%) - MDs pull "gently" on babies' heads
sticking out vaginas...
Sometimes MDs pull HARD.
In 10 to 15% of births, MDs reach INSIDE vaginas (with forceps and
vacuum
extractors) and drag babies by their skulls through birth canals
senselessly
closed up to 30%.
Sometimes MDs pull so hard that they rip spinal nerves out
of tiny spinal cords! This causes PARALYSIS for life!
The first rule of chiropractic spinal manipulation is knowing when NOT
to
adjust/manipulate the spine.
Clearly, one should NEVER pull or push on a baby's spine with the birth
canal closed up to 30%.
It's obviously criminal behavior - yet MDs get away with it everyday!
>>>>END excerpt of
Not the coccyx (Surgeon Moran vs 'Gastaldo's nonsense')
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/67b266f87f655364
Again that BIZARRE FACT...
British radiologist JGB Russell promoted placing women semisitting -
even as he
reported the "20-30 per cent" figure.
Dagny
-- Dagny
Mark Probert
> "NOT THE COCCYX" - AND "TODD'S NOT BRITISH"
Hmmm...Todd and Tools are back in the same week....hmmmm.....
Peter Bowditch
>"NOT THE COCCYX" - AND "TODD'S NOT BRITISH"
It was only yesterday that I was wondering what had happened to Todd,
and here is he is.
Welcome back, Todd.
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
Peter Bowditch
That's a point, although they seem to use different algorithms in the
bot software.
Perhaps one of our resident experts on who is really who might like to
investigate and report back.
Cathy had been away for a while too. And where is Carole?
Leslie
Todd! We missed you!
Leslie
Mark Probert
> Mark Probert <markp...@lumbercartel.com> wrote:
>
>> tgas...@earthlink.net wrote:
>>> "NOT THE COCCYX" - AND "TODD'S NOT BRITISH"
>> Hmmm...Todd and Tools are back in the same week....hmmmm.....
>
> That's a point, although they seem to use different algorithms in the
> bot software.
>
> Perhaps one of our resident experts on who is really who might like to
> investigate and report back.
>
> Cathy had been away for a while too. And where is Carole?
I saw one post from Carole. She had not received any help....
tgas...@earthlink.net
(For birth under a tree quote, see the very end of this post.)
Regarding The F crime, ADA and babies: America's largest dental trade
union - ADA - has finally said (Nov. 9 ADA egram) mothers should not be
reconstituting infant formula with "fluoridated" water. See
www.fluoridealert.org.
NOTE: Most people aren't aware that "fluoridated" water has the
poisons FSA/fluoride, arsenic and lead added. Most people also aren't
aware that ADA and CDC have in effect conceded that they were wrong
about the mechanism of "fluoridation" - i.e. - to the degree that
"fluoridation" works (if at all) - the stuff works TOPICALLY - it
doesn't need to be added to water and swallowed. People who wish to
try to prevent cavities with poison can used poisoned ("fluoridated")
toothpaste. See the poison warning on the back of every tube of the
stuff. One last "most people aren't aware": Most people aren't aware
that common law indicates that "fluoridation" is forced medication - a
crime - battery - even if "good medicine" is being forced. See The F
Crime, URL below.
ACTION...
REPORT to law enforcement. Ask for cease and desist orders to get the
poison spigots turned off. In the meantime, ASK your local water
department what it is doing to inform pregnant women that ADA is
finally saying they shouldn't reconstitute infant formula with
fluoridated water.
As usual, I'm copying Oregon Atty Gen'l Hardy Myers via
hardy...@state.or.us.
ONWARD....
DAGNY WROTE:
> Glad to see you again Todd.
>
> -- Dagny
Dagny,
Glad to see you too.
I hope you will pardon this lengthy reply.
Some pregnant women will hopefully be interested in at least parts of
what I have to say.
You are the one who got me thinking of the possibility that most direct
entry midwives may ape MD-obstetricians in closing birth canals the
"extra" up to 30%. As you (I think) noted, we can't know - but there
is that possibility. (I am wondering about the SILENCE of direct entry
midwives - esp. the silence of direct entry midwife Ina May Gaskin who
recommends MDs use the birth-canal-closing McRoberts maneuver when
shoulders get stuck - before using the birth-canal-OPENING "Gaskin"
maneuver - hands-and-knees.)
I went back just now and found this exchange wherein you indicated that
your direct entry midwife snidely mentioned my name when you asked if
you were supposed to be on your tailbone...
You wrote:
"Of course my body was screaming at me not to be in the position she
was
born in and I am not going to repeat that scenario in a future birth."
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.kids.pregnancy/msg/f06752e554719fac
I replied:
"Whatever position you were in - I must give my usual warning to
pregnant women - do not deliver on you back/butt because it closes your
birth
canal up to 30%.
This is where you replied that your direct entry midwife placed you
semisitting and snidely mentioned me by name.
You wrote:
"Easy to say Todd but hard to follow through on in an assisted birth --
particularly when you have been in labor 24 hours and you have put in
your birth plan no back or semisitting, your midwife has convinced you
to push without urge, you are on the birth stool uncomfortable saying
to your midwife 'I am not supposed to be on my tailbone am I?' and she
replies
only 'Been reading Todd Gastaldo have you?' and then semisits you on
the bed -- and you just want it to end -- and end up with PTSD in
addition to the physical damage."
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.kids.pregnancy/msg/f06752e554719fac
I still am astonished that that happened to you - and that your direct
entry midwife snidely mentioned me by name. Direct entry midwives or
others who don't agree with me should know that I am only the messenger
- I am only stating what was reported in the medical literature early
last century. I included the references when I described the grisly
birth-canal-closing biomechanics of semisitting late last century. See
Gastaldo TD. Letter. Birth. 1992;19:230-1.
BIRTHRAPE...
Although my understanding is that rape technically/usually involves
penetration by a penis, the culture uses the term more broadly to
describe other violations; so you appropriately described as
"birthrape" your direct entry midwife's repeated vaginal penetrations
over your protests. (As I indicated in my 200_ post, the technical term
for when a doctor or nurse engages in unwanted/unnecessary vaginal
penetration is "sexual assault." See below.)
To any pregnant women who may be reading: Birthrape is ROUTINE.
MD-obstetricians are routinely SLICING vaginas (performing
episiotomies) - surgically/fraudulently claiming they are doing
everything possible to open birth canals - even as they close birth
canals the "extra" up to 30%.
MD-obstetricians are also fraudulently slicing ABDOMENS (performing
c-sections); surgically/fraudulently inferring they did everything
possible to open the birth canal - after they closed it the "extra" up
to 30%.
Direct entry midwives are going along with both grisly gags - failing
to speak out about the senseless birth canal closing. They are
probably doing so because some (most?) direct entry midwives also close
birth canals the "extra" up to 30% - but perhaps also because they see
law enforcement (district attorneys and attorneys general) failing to
enforce the law.
This latter sordid spectacle - law enforcement failing to enforce the
law - is amazing - and may be the reason I am the only one reporting
the obvious crimes. (If others are reporting the obvious crimes, please
speak up. As usual, I am cc'ing Oregon Atty Genl Hardy Myers via
hardy...@state.or.us.)
Regarding law enforcement failing to simply enforce the law....
When I pointed out OTHER obvious medical crimes - i.e. - mass
vaccination promotion fraud (and mass
MD failure to obtain true informed consent prior to vaccination)...
Steven Harris, MD arrogantly boasted:
"Without enforcement, there is no law. Without law, there is no crime.
These are elementary principles. Get an adult to explain them to you."
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.kids.pregnancy/msg/28866f3384801ae9
Dr. Harris is right. Law enforcement ignoring common law in effect
renders common law non-existent.
For relevant common law which prohibits what MD-obstetricians are
doing...
See Dr. Weil and baby asphyxiation
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.kids.pregnancy/msg/162aed5802403e52
For info about organized medicine's mass vaccination promotion fraud
mentioned above...
See The F Crime: Arkansas State Board of Health President Karen
Konarski-Hart, DC
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/4352
NOTE: Some calling themselves "skeptics" have fraudulently indicated
that I am "anti-vax."
See:
http://www.bcskeptics.info/resources/skeptopaedia/index.cgi?key=gastaldo,%20todd.html
See also: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/2722
In fact, I am in FAVOR of the vaccination choice. I am opposed to
vaccination promotion fraud.
I am also opposed to immunologic rape of babies by MDs. Sadly, MDs are
mostly anti-immunization - lying by omission in effect denying massive
numbers of babies massive numbers of free daily immunizations.
PREGNANT WOMEN: MDs are failing to inform women that breastmilk has
IMMUNIZATIONS - breastfeeding women scan their envirornments for
pathogens and make IMMUNIZATIONS which they "inject" with their breasts
daily. What woman informed that she can IMMUNIZE her baby daily - and
(reportedly) make MD-needle vaccinations work bettery by doing so - is
going to fail to at least attempt to breastfeed? MDs are ignoring a
simple way to make both the immunization (breastfeeding) and
vaccination rates skyrocket!
For further details...
See again: The F Crime: Arkansas State Board of Health President Karen
Konarski-Hart, DC
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/4352
BTW, further regarding the F crime just mentioned and mentioned
above...
The F crime is "fluoridation" - forced medication - injection of the
poisons FSA/fluoride, lead and arsenic into drinking water.
The F crime is committed by municipal chemotherapists (elected
representatives) - most of whom have no medical training.
Significantly, the American Dental Association/ADA (Nov. 9 ADA egram)
has just told parents not to add the poisons to infant formula when
reconstituting the stuff. (Of course, ADA didn't use the word "poisons"
- ADA may still call the poison fluoride a "nutrient.")
Bottomline, ADA has now, in effect, (as of Nov. 9) finally acknowledged
that babies should not be given the poisons FSA/fluoride, lead and
arsenic.
>From birthrape to immunologic rape to rape of drinking water - this
culture is being raped and those doing the raping need adjusting.
Dagny, thanks for greeting me - and thanks for sharing your birth
experiences good and bad.
Sincerely,
Todd
Dr. Gastaldo
Hillsboro, Oregon
USA
to...@chiromotion.com
PS Here's my first post about Birthrape vs. Birth under a tree...
From: Todd Gastaldo - view profile
Date: Fri, Mar 11 2005 8:53 am
Email: "Todd Gastaldo" <tgasta...@earthlink.net>
Groups: misc.kids.pregnancy
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BIRTH UNDER A TREE VS. BIRTHRAPE
(For Birth under a tree, see the very end of this post.)
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
> "Dagny" <notgi...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:hp5Yd.20004$Q83....@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>> "Mike Cox" <mikecoxli...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:39c32tF...@individual.net...
>>> My wife wants to have a
>>> child within the next few years so something like a book on all the
>>> correct
>>> things to do would be nice so we could prevent the doctor from doing any
>>> of
>>> the incorrect medical things.
>> You will find you probably can't prevent a doctor from doing anything.
>> Even if your doctor promises to follow your birth plan and is
>> trustworthy,
>> he'll be on vacation when your wife goes into labor.
>> You will have best chance of an evidence-oriented attended birth with a
>> direct entry midwife at home and a solid birth plan; but since the
>> evidence is generally for non intervention, and midwives can be evil
>> liers, you should also consider unassisted.
>> -- Dagny
"Jamie Clark" <jamiel...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:lPudnawmC-l...@comcast.com...
> Dagny,
> I think you are overly harsh on this. I don't know exactly what you
> experienced, only that you label it a birthrape, but that was one
> instance,
> not all medical providers, be them OB's, midwives, etc, are going to
> perpetrate birthrape.
I don't think Dagny is being overly harsh at all.
Here is Dagny briefly describing her birthrape...
"Remember, I'm the one who she told sarcastically, as she started the
violence over my
protest, 'Been reading Todd Gastaldo eh?' (I call it a birthrape
because
she went in me over and over after I told her to GET HER FINGERS OUT OF
MY
VAGINA.)"
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/80c483937d68d9cd?
MOST women are subjected to a rape of their birth - closure of their
birth
canals the "extra" up to 30% - with prominent OBs, CNMwives and direct
entry
midwives PROMOTING closure of birth canals the "extra" up to 30%.
Prominent professionals also promote KEEPING the birth canal closed the
"extra" up to 30% when babies get stuck!
I will agree with Jamie that most OB's midwives, etc. are not going to
override OVERT PROTESTS like Dagny reports she made...
But most women don't know to protest!
Birth is being raped - routinely!
American medicine's most frequent surgical behavior toward females -
euphemism "routine episiotomy" - involves mass slicing of vaginas - OBs
surgically inferring that everything possible is being to open the
birth
canal - as they close the birth canal up to 30%.
In most jurisdictions, this is mass SEXUAL ASSAULT ("the term sexual
assault
has replaced the term rape")...
The National Center for Victims of Crime says:
"In most jurisdictions, the term sexual assault has replaced the term
rape
in the state statutes...Some examples of sexual assault include...A
doctor,
nurse, or other health care professional giving you an unnecessary
internal
examination or touching your sexual organs in an unprofessional,
unwarranted
and inappropriate manner..."
http://www.ncvc.org/ncvc/main.aspx?dbName=DocumentViewer&DocumentID=3...
Jamie, if you are reading,
Do you agree it is sexual assault (unprofessional, unwarranted and
inappropriate) for MDs to close birth canals up to 30% and then use
scissors
to SLICE vaginas - sometimes clear to the anus - thereby
surgically/fraudulently claiming to be doing everything possible to
open
birth canals?
When I asked Larry McMahan the same question, he replied:
"No. It is substandard care, but it is NOT sexual assault."
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/misc.kids.pregnancy/msg/b3638c6df...
OBs are LYING to cover-up - and that DEFINITELY makes it sexual assault
- or
so I say.
In Larry's defense, law enforcement is not prosecuting - but then again
-
law enforcement often didn't prosecute assault and battery against
women
("wife-beating") even though it was an obvious crime.
[Nov. 11, 2006 update: As noted above, when I pointed out OTHER obvious
medical crimes - i.e. - mass vaccination promotion fraud (and mass
MD failure to obtain true informed consent prior to vaccination)...
Steven Harris, MD arrogantly boasted:
"Without enforcement, there is no law. Without law, there is no crime.
These are elementary principles. Get an adult to explain them to you."
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.kids.pregnancy/msg/28866f3384801ae9
[I still think it bizarre that Larry McMahan does not think batteries
are occurring when MDs are slicing vaginas surgically/fraudulently
claiming to be doing everything to open birth canals as they close
birth canals the "extra" up to 30%.
[The fact that MD-obstetrician experts are LYING to cover-up the
bizarre birth-canal-closing behavior - and usenet medical doctors are
silent - only makes the crime more obvious criminal negligence...
[Maybe Larry has changed his mind? Larry? You reading?
[END Nov. 11, 2006 update.]
Sometimes slicing the vagina is necessary - but OBs closing birth
canals up
to 30% and slicing vaginas pretending to be doing everything possible
to
open birth canals as they LIE - that is sexual assault - or so I say (I
say
again)...
As usual, I am in favor of pardons in advance for MDs.
As medical students, MDs are TRAINED to perform this and other obvious
felonies.
See Homebirth (also: AMA: Is it illegal for OBs to lie?
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/misc.kids.pregnancy/msg/0af4b794f...
Jamie wrote to Dagny...
> I'm not disregarding what you experienced AT ALL, or
> challenging the validity of it.
Here, again is that excerpt of what Dagny said she experienced:
"Remember, I'm the one who she told sarcastically, as she started the
violence over my
protest, 'Been reading Todd Gastaldo eh?' (I call it a birthrape
because
she went in me over and over after I told her to GET HER FINGERS OUT OF
MY
VAGINA.)"
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/80c48...
Jamie continued...
> I am so incredibly sorry that you
> experienced what you did.
Yes, I too am sorry that Dagny was subjected to birthrape. But look at
what
that experience empowered her to do the next time! She had an
unassisted
birth with "only" her mom there. Awesome birth story!
> But it's like saying that no man could ever be a
> good husband or father, because someone was raped or molested as a child.
> It's just not true.
No Jamie, it's not like this at all. MOST women are having their birth
canals closed up to 30% - and prominent OBs and CNMwives and direct
entry
midwives are PROMOTING this bizarre behavior.
In addition, routine vagina slicing is occurring - OBs are
surgically/fraudulently inferring they are doing everything possible to
open
birth canals even as they close birth canals up to 30%.
Birth is being raped. Sexual assault is ROUTINE.
Also...
An estimated 4.6% of "healthy" term babies are suffering brain bleeds -
not
to mention the fact that some babies are suffering unexplained deaths
and
unexplained paralysis - not to mention lesser motor and perceptual
difficulties later in life.
NOTE: There is also the matter of OBs temporarily asphyxiating/robbing
massive amounts of blood from EVERY CESAREAN BABY, according to retired
obstetrician George Malcolm Morley, MB ChB FACOG.
Just because babies live is NOT a reason to let OBs close birth canals
up to
30% and rob babies of up to 50% of their blood volume.
Birth is being raped - en masse - by OBs and CNMwives - and direct
entry
midwives too (my thanks to Dagny for her input in regard to her direct
entry
midwife; see above).
> There are tons of good men out there, and tons of good
> medical professionals.
Good medical professionals are ignoring my pleas that they stop
ignoring the
medical literature and stop closing birth canals up to 30% - and stop
KEEPING birth canals closed the "extra" up to 30% when babies get
stuck.
Here is one of my latest pleas...
See Dr. Gastaldo corrects BRITISH GRAY'S ANATOMY...
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/misc.kids.pregnancy/msg/44c2b0485...
Jamie continued...
> There are also some bad ones, I'll give you that,
> but I don't think it's fair to paint them all with the same brush,
> especially in answer to a random person asking for birthing assistance for
> his wife.
The Four OB Lies are obvious - yet "good medical professionals" - the
vast
majority who read them - IGNORE them - make no protest!
> My experience in the ngs tells me that if his wife is the average
> woman, she'll likely have a relatively medically assisted pregnancy and
> birth, likely with an epidural, and be pleased with the fact that it all
> turned out okay and she got a baby in the end.
Jamie describes the majority of births - birth canal closed up to 30%.
Many women will have cesareans - EVERY CESAREAN BABY is temporarily
asphyxiated and robbed of up to 50% of its blood volume [, according to
retired obstetrician George Malcolm Morley, MB ChB FACOG]
[See Dr. Morley's website, www.cordclamp.com]
[See also: See Dr. Weil and baby asphyxiation
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.kids.pregnancy/msg/162aed5802403e52
Birth is being raped.
> I don't believe that the
> average woman is a candidate for an unassisted home birth.
BIRTH UNDER A TREE
Interestingly, at least one medical doctor suggests that if women were
informed of the full details and mortality and morbidity related to
cesarean
section, "most of them would get up and go out and have their baby
under a
tree," as in,
BIRTH UNDER A TREE...
"Dr. Dermot W. McDonald of the National Maternity Hospital in Dublin
Ireland
suggested that the medicolegal pressure to perform a cesarean may abate
only
when mothers begin suing physicians for assault, alleging that they
were not
given fully informed consent...
"'If one went to the extreme of giving the patient the full details of
mortality and morbidity related to cesarean section, most of them would
get
up and go out and have their baby under a tree,' [Dr. McDonald] said."
[Neel J. Medicolegal pressure, MDs' lack of patience cited in cesarean
'epidemic.' Ob.Gyn. News Vol 22 No 10]
Irish physician McDonald's remarks accord with the 1990 findings of
British
research statistician Marjorie Tew who concluded that the British
maternity
system is run by obstetricians who "withhold and pervert knowledge in
order
to maintain public ignorance and delusion." [Tew M. Safer childbirth? A
critical history of maternity care. London: Chapman and Hall, 1990.]
>>>>>END Dr. Gastaldo's post from 200_
ONE LAST NOTE ABOUT DAGNY...
As I indicated in my 200_ post above...
Dagny informed herself - educated herself about professionally
UNASSISTED CHILDBIRTH - and subsequently birthed her next baby with
just her mother there...
What a story that was!
I am in favor of ALL birth options for women - except the usual
criminal MD-imposed birth options of closing birth canals and robbing
babies of blood, etc.
Dagny, thanks for welcoming me back!
Sincerely,
Todd
Dr. Gastaldo
Hillsboro, Oregon
USA
to...@chiromotion.com
Readers, for the BIRTH UNDER A TREE quote, scroll up a little.
tgas...@earthlink.net
Mark Probert wrote:
>
> Hmmm...Todd and Tools are back in the same week....hmmmm.....
Mark,
You are alluding to the fact that coincidence can (but often doesn't)
mean causation or identity.
I assure you I am not anyone else. I have always posted using my own
name.
You are going to have to take my work for it - just like I have to take
your word that you are Mark Probert. (Didn't it used to be Mark
"Probe."?)
Remember Aaron Fox posting as Hillbilly Bob? - LOL!
He finally got caught - but not until after he wrote:
"When [people] are really endowed with small cojones, they...post
anonymously."
-- Columbia Univerisity ethnomusicologist Aaron Fox, PhD
http://www.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=457314364
NOTE: Deja is caput - but I don't even think one can find this post in
the Google usenet archive. Aaron deleted all his posts before he
ran...
INTERESTINGLY...
Aaron Fox stopped posting to MHA (as Aaron Fox) the day I
guessed that his father may be Dr. Dan Fox, president of Milbank
Memorial
Fund, an organization associated with the origins of Nazism in
medicine.
See 'Skeptic' Aaron 'stalks' himself/'Skeptic' Aaron WELL connected
(Milbank
Memorial Fund)
http://www.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=654150446
See also Urgent matter/Milbank Pres. Dr. Dan Fox...
http://www.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=654235899
Back then, I asked:
IS AARON PART OF NAZI MEDICINE?
I noted that Milbank Dr. Fox (Aaron's dad?) had published the
following:
"Nazi medicine has now become a part of the professional genotype of
modern
medicine..."
[Seidelman WE. Mengele Medicus: Medicine's Nazi Heritage. Milbank
Quarterly,
Vol. 66, No. 2, 1988:221-39]
Mark, you - like Aaron - ignore massive MD crimes against babies. You
snipped my post about some current activities of Nazi medicine - and
instead of remarking about the obvious MD crimes - you suggested I am
Tools.
Again, I am not Tools; but you will have to take my word for that -
just like I have to take your word that you are Mark Probert. Again,
didn't it used to be "Probe"?
Thanks for reading.
tgas...@earthlink.net
Leslie wrote:
> Todd! We missed you!
>
> Leslie
Leslie,
What a wonderful greeting.
Thank you.
I missed everyone here of course.
And of course I know that not everybody missed me - but still... : )
Todd
PS LOL! You said "Give me a break" twice, as in,
Pharmacists and fetal macrosomia (Big Baby Coming) ...
Central/12/02/big.baby.ap/ Todd "One study defined macrosomia as a body
weight greater
than 9.9 lb (4.5 kg) That's macrosomia? Give me a break. Leslie Emily
(2 ...
misc.kids.pregnancy - Sep 2 2004, 1:57 am by Todd Gastaldo - 9 messages
- 3 authors
Why MDs are always correct - was Re: ACOG on C-section and big ...
WHY MDs ARE ALWAYS CORRECT See below. <<11lbs is 'extreme
macrosomia')">>
Give me a break. Leslie VBA3C, 13 lbs. 5 oz. Another VBAC ...
misc.kids.pregnancy - Jun 9 2005, 1:32 pm by Todd Gastaldo - 14
messages - 9 authors
I quickly skimmed those posts yesterday but didn't get a chance to
post.
In one of the threads above, you mentioned that one of your babies
(William?) was on TV - and he was so big at birth (just under 14
pounds?) they got him confused with the world record holder big baby -
23 pounds I think it was.
Again Leslie, thank you for that wonderful greeting.
Nina Pretty Ballerina
<tgas...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1163170079....@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
"NOT THE COCCYX" - AND "TODD'S NOT BRITISH"
Anne Roger's post reminded me of a humorous exchange I had with retired
Australian surgeon Dr. Peter Moran.
Anne's mention of "the British" reminded me of a TRULY BIZZARE FACT
about British radiologist JGB Russell...
See below.
My further comments are interspersed ####.
Anne Rogers wrote:
> so today I went for my first visit with an American OBGYN, it was time for
> my annual exam (first in my life actually, they don't call you for smears
> in
> my part of the UK until you are 25, so I'd never had one, but had agreed
> with my GP in the UK that I'd get one before Christmas), as a result of
> the
> exam, he feels I must have broken [my sacrum or coccyx - see below - TDG],
> or at the very least damaged and
> triggered an imflamatory response, after the discussion we had, I don't
> disbelieve him
snip
welcome back todd. we were wondering where you were. keep working on
brevity...
chris
Leslie
Yes, it was William who was on t.v. He weighed 13 lbs. 5 oz. Since
then there seem to have been a lot of big babies--I see their pictures
online all the time--but nary a one has been a vaginal birth, let alone
a VBA3C!
Lorelei was only 11 lbs. so perhaps my record-setting days are over.
:-)
Leslie
Nina Pretty Ballerina
"Leslie" <penn...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1163374547.4...@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
you are a medical marvel leslie!! How are your, er, bits nowadays, with all
of those births of both types...? I have had 3 x c and my abdo wall is
still subject to quite a few twinges bordering on pain etc here and there
excatholic
Peter Bowditch wrote:
> Mark Probert <markp...@lumbercartel.com> wrote:
>
> >tgas...@earthlink.net wrote:
> >> "NOT THE COCCYX" - AND "TODD'S NOT BRITISH"
> >
> >Hmmm...Todd and Tools are back in the same week....hmmmm.....
>
> That's a point, although they seem to use different algorithms in the
> bot software.
>
> Perhaps one of our resident experts on who is really who might like to
> investigate and report back.
>
> Cathy had been away for a while too.
I've a tight deadline on a huge project, so I haven't got time to get
into any substantive stuff at the moment; I note that PeteyB and Jan
are being regularly spanked and embarrassed by others though; reading
it is a good way to start the day with a giggle. With thanks to
Schultz, Wright, Bowditch, Heit, Rich, Doe et al.
> And where is Carole?
Perhaps she's enjoying the attentions of David Icke, and fighting
against our reptile overlords.
Cathy
tgas...@earthlink.net
Thanks Chris. The brevity thing - it's not likely in my lifetime -
LOL!
Todd
tgas...@earthlink.net
Dagny wrote:
> Glad to see you again Todd.
>
> -- Dagny
Thanks Dagny.
Todd
tgas...@earthlink.net
Lorelei "only" 11 lbs - LOL!
I had forgotten that William was a VBA3C to boot.
Perhaps your record-setting days are over?
I still think it's amazing that women will go through childbirth more
than once.
Todd
tgas...@earthlink.net
See below.
Peter Bowditch wrote:
> It was only yesterday that I was wondering what had happened to Todd,
> and here is he is.
>
> Welcome back, Todd.
> --
> Peter Bowditch aa #2243
> The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
> Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
> Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
> To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
Peter,
Thanks for the welcome back.
Todd
Dr. Gastaldo
Hillsboro, Oregon
USA
to...@chiromotion.com
USENET READERS:
Peter Bowditch says of his "FULL CANVAS JACKET AWARD" website
("Noteworthy Unhinged Lunatic Rants"):
"Todd Gastaldo...inspired this site..."
http://www.ratbags.com/ranters/howe010515.htm
Peter Bowditch named his award "The Toddy" (after me) - but he
eventually
renamed it the Full Canvas Jacket Award after I kept asking to show me
where
I am wrong...
Peter Bowditch subsequently wrote:
"I don't have any real problem with the issues that interest Dr
Gastaldo,
and I don't doubt his sincerity in trying to right what he sees to be a
wrong (or several wrongs). It's just that he has a somewhat unique
compositional style which may detract from the message he is trying to
convey."
http://www.ratbags.com/ranters/gastaldo000218.htm
THE PRETENSE...
Peter Bowditch in effect says he doesn't have a problem with sometimes
fatal
OB felonies against children - as he pretends that calling me and/or my
message "lunatic" will help me convey my message that these OB felonies
should end immediately.
EXCERPTED FROM: 'Skeptic' Peter Bowditch and 'nice' violent men in
white coats
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.kids.pregnancy/msg/78410968631714ad
Thanks for reading.
Ilena Rose
I am so happy to have you back, Todd!
One thing ... I disagree that Bowditch or Barrett and their
Healthfraud Teams are 'sceptics' ... true sceptics have open minds ...
the antithesis of their mindset.
Thank you for continuing your brave mission ...
Blessings from Ilena Rosenthal
tgas...@earthlink.net
Before you decide, visit Ilena Rosenthal's website:
www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/
Ilena Rose wrote:
> I am so happy to have you back, Todd!
>
#### I am happy to see that you are still here, Ilena.
> One thing ... I disagree that Bowditch or Barrett and their
> Healthfraud Teams are 'sceptics' ... true sceptics have open minds ...
> the antithesis of their mindset.
#### I agree - which is why I put "skeptic" in quotes. Then again, due
to our biases, we are all, at best, selective skeptics.
>
> Thank you for continuing your brave mission ...
>
You too Ilena.
> Blessings from Ilena Rosenthal
>
> www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackWatchWatch.htm
Thanks.
Sincerely,
Jan Drew
Leslie
Nina Pretty Ballerina wrote:
>
> you are a medical marvel leslie!! How are your, er, bits nowadays, with all
> of those births of both types...? I have had 3 x c and my abdo wall is
> still subject to quite a few twinges bordering on pain etc here and there
I don't have any pain from the sections. I didn't think I would ever
recover my abdoominal strength but when I began going to the gym
regularly when William was about two I was able to work up to doing
situps and crunches again. I'm more concerned about the cosmetic
effects; I have that "apron" thing going on over the scar and I think
it won't ever look right even after losing weight. :-(
As far as the other "bits" it did take a long time to recover after
William. I tore several places as well as the episiotomy, probably
because I had an epidural and couldn't feel myself pushing and so
pushed way too hard in my determination to make it work! I couldn't
sit without a pillow for weeks, but until after Lorelei was born I just
assumed that's the way the aftermath of a vaginal birth felt! With
her, I hardly had to push at all and even with and episiotomy I felt
fine within days. It was just amazing to me!
Perhaps TMI but my husband assures me that everything has "snapped
back" to the way it was pre-William. I do have the occasional "leak"
when I sneeze but that actually did not happen until after Lorelei. I
know, I should do more Kegels.
Leslie
Leslie
tgas...@earthlink.net wrote:
> Leslie wrote:
> > Yes, it was William who was on t.v. He weighed 13 lbs. 5 oz. Since
> > then there seem to have been a lot of big babies--I see their pictures
> > online all the time--but nary a one has been a vaginal birth, let alone
> > a VBA3C!
> >
> > Lorelei was only 11 lbs. so perhaps my record-setting days are over.
> > :-)
> >
> > Leslie
>
> Lorelei "only" 11 lbs - LOL!
Well, maybe you don't know this, but I have also had an 11.5 lb. and a
12 lb. baby. So Lorelei was actually my second smallest (#1 was not
quite 9 lbs.).
>
> I had forgotten that William was a VBA3C to boot.
>
> Perhaps your record-setting days are over?
I expect to have one more baby, but I can't imagine one bigger than
William!
>
> I still think it's amazing that women will go through childbirth more
> than once.
LOL. It's still better than a section. Women are strong! Men would
NEVER do it twice. ;-)
Leslie
tgas...@earthlink.net
Leslie wrote:
> tgas...@earthlink.net wrote:
> > Leslie wrote:
> > > Yes, it was William who was on t.v. He weighed 13 lbs. 5 oz. Since
> > > then there seem to have been a lot of big babies--I see their pictures
> > > online all the time--but nary a one has been a vaginal birth, let alone
> > > a VBA3C!
> > >
> > > Lorelei was only 11 lbs. so perhaps my record-setting days are over.
> > > :-)
> > >
> > > Leslie
> >
> > Lorelei "only" 11 lbs - LOL!
>
> Well, maybe you don't know this, but I have also had an 11.5 lb. and a
> 12 lb. baby. So Lorelei was actually my second smallest (#1 was not
> quite 9 lbs.).
>
> >
> > I had forgotten that William was a VBA3C to boot.
> >
> > Perhaps your record-setting days are over?
>
> I expect to have one more baby,
#### My mom had five.
> but I can't imagine one bigger than
> William!
>
#### You never know...
> >
> > I still think it's amazing that women will go through childbirth more
> > than once.
>
> LOL. It's still better than a section. Women are strong! Men would
> NEVER do it twice. ;-)
>
> Leslie
#### LOL!
#### Todd