Oh hell
Mogget
I just saw my midwife Katie. She has resigned. Bloody politics.
Basically she was hounded out. I don't blame her in the slightest for
going. I wouldn't want to work in that culture of blame either.
But this leaves me in the lurch. If I stick with the local hospital, to
which she was attached, I'll no longer have an ally against the bullying
obstetricians, and it will be just some random midwife on the day,
rather than having a trusted ally.
She said today that she still advises against a home birth for me -
she's very pro-home birth in general, and has delivered two of my
friends at home, and they both love her too. So she has good reasons,
or at least good instincts, for advising me not to try it. She reckons
that I'll need access to a hospital.
I'm not your straightforward case, I'm a VBAC for starters, plus other
health problems thrown in for good measure, like diabetes & other
joyousness. I'm adamant that the diabetes is a non-issue & won't affect
labour - that much at least I have experience of. But the obstetricians
don't see it that way of course.
I want an easy birth, of course I do. But I have enough experience from
last time to know that might not be possible. If it's just not
possible, then fair enough. All I'm asking for is the same chance at a
VBAC as anyone else.
Buggered if I know what to do now. An independent midwife makes perfect
sense, except that if Katie's right & a homebirth is impossible & I end
up in hospital (or even start up in hospital) then an independent
midwife can be no more than a doula and I can imagine being torn between
the hospital staff urging me to do one thing and my doula giving me
another opinion. Who do I listen to?
Fuck fuck fuck I just want to curl up and cry.
--
Mogget
30 wks
V.
"Mogget" <bi...@scat.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:WRYB6BGc...@scat.demon.co.uk...
Poor baby! :( You're having a heck of a week!
Would Katie be your independent midwife? IE did she quit and is now going
into independent practice? Although if she's so sure homebirth isn't an
option for you she might not agree to try it, but if she would that seems
like a possible solution....try for a homebirth with Katie and if you need
to transfer, fine, but she would at least be your doula (and you'd know who
to listen to if she and the hospital disagree).
Alternatively you could ask Katie for a recommendation for who is most
similar to her style/philosophy. I switched midwives at 27ish weeks (b/c
mine moved away) and feel very comfortable with my new midwife so it is
possible to form a good relationship quickly if you get the right person.
Given your circumstances, maybe you can start the once a week appts early so
you get more face time with the new person or find someone who also teaches
a birthing or child care class and take that class even if you don't really
need it.
My only other suggestion is to switch hospitals altogether (again asking
Katie if she has ideas), but that may not be feasible with travel, etc.
But, you might feel most comfortable following Katie wherever she ends up
going even if it's more travel, etc.
Good luck and much sympathy!
Amy
Kath
then I have had cervical surgery so my next baby will have to come in a
hospital (which also stresses me a lot) and when I voiced my concerns
to my OB I was just told "That is not the way we do things around
here". Very disempowering indeed.
I agree that maybe changing hospitals should be considered bc after all
this is your birthing and your baby and no one wants to feel like a
rag-doll being pushed around at such a time. Did you also check doula
services? You might be able to find one that will be a strong
advocate. Tell them as soon as you meet them that that is what you
need so they can tell you their limitations or show you if "she is the
one" right up front.
I send you hugs
Kath
emilymr
a midwife who will be your advocate and whom you can trust -- and if Katie
resigned b/c of hospital politics, I bet there'd have been tension between
her and the hospital staff *anyway*, so your new situation might not be
that much worse in terms of people giving conflicting advice on Birth Day.
But it's such a shame; I'm sorry you have to start over again with
someone else.
Em
mama to Micah, 11/14/04
Anne Rogers
or someone else from the same team should cover you, it might be a good idea
to meet who will be looking after you before you make any decisions.
As for independent midwives, from the information I've read, many are more
comfortable delivering at home for conditions that other people wouldn't
deliver at home and incases where hospital birth is needed, they are often
able to make arrangements to be the primary midwife and not just a doula or
whatever.
A doula should never tell you what to do, in fact doulas will often leave
the room if the parents need to have ask or refuse something to a dr. Doulas
are good for things like someone enters the room and says I'll just pop this
cannula in and you just hold out your hand, she might encourage you to ask
why, if they say because you are a VBAC, then she might suggest you get more
info. Essentially they should never tell you what to do, not only are they
good at helping you prevent intervention, but they are also good at getting
you help when you need it.
Anne
Jamie Clark
--
Jamie
Earth Angels:
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Addison Grace, 9/30/04 -- My Little Walker, who wants nothing more than to
go explore the world!
Check out the family! -- www.MyFamily.com, User ID: Clarkguest1, Password:
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Password
"Mogget" <bi...@scat.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:WRYB6BGc...@scat.demon.co.uk...
Mogget
<anne...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>You appear to be in the UK, which means your midwife _should_ be replaces,
>or someone else from the same team should cover you, it might be a good idea
>to meet who will be looking after you before you make any decisions.
That's true but it doesn't solve the problem. My local hospital, St
George's in Tooting (not the same hospital as I was at last time,
Chelsea & Westminster, I'll be going back there over my dead body) has
teams of community midwives. Katie is/was one. Geographically I should
be in the Pink Team BUT these teams only deal with straightforward
cases, everyone else gets shunted into hospital. I met the midwife from
the Pink Team early on, she wasn't at all happy dealing with me &
decided to pass me over to Silver Team. Silver seemed perfect for me;
it was specifically for non-straightforward cases like me, those
excluded for whatever reason, and those with prior birth traumas. You
would have your own two midwives all along who would be with you in
labour regardless of what happened, trusted allies & advocates.
What's happened is that the plug has been pulled on Silver Team. It's
gone. Yes the midwife will be replaced... I'll be put back on Pink.
Which means that they'll probably refuse to handle me at all, and shove
me under the complete "care" (hahaha) of the
obstetricians/endocrinologists just like I was last time at C&W. I'll
get to meet some random midwife on the day - and I know just how well
that worked last time - who will likely be dealing with three or four
other labouring women. In a revolting hospital environment that I
desperately wanted to avoid, probably forced to lie flat on my back
strapped to a monitor being shouted at if I so much as twitch.
>As for independent midwives, from the information I've read, many are more
>comfortable delivering at home for conditions that other people wouldn't
>deliver at home and incases where hospital birth is needed, they are often
>able to make arrangements to be the primary midwife and not just a doula or
>whatever.
>
>A doula should never tell you what to do, in fact doulas will often leave
>the room if the parents need to have ask or refuse something to a dr. Doulas
>are good for things like someone enters the room and says I'll just pop this
>cannula in and you just hold out your hand, she might encourage you to ask
>why, if they say because you are a VBAC, then she might suggest you get more
>info. Essentially they should never tell you what to do, not only are they
>good at helping you prevent intervention, but they are also good at getting
>you help when you need it.
Food for thought, thanks.
--
Mogget
Mogget
<v...@nospam.com> writes
>Poor baby! :( You're having a heck of a week!
Yeah and it comes in threes, right? I wonder what the third will be...
got the MIL staying this weekend and she's already driving me nuts, so
maybe it's her :-)
>Would Katie be your independent midwife?
Alas no. I asked her that already and she can't do it for reasons of
insurance.
<snip stuff, I'm thinking about it, and will reply when my thoughts are
firmed up>
>My only other suggestion is to switch hospitals altogether (again asking
>Katie if she has ideas), but that may not be feasible with travel, etc.
Not sure that's an option either. Last time at C&W it was a good hour's
drive either way, and that made life very hard for both of us. This
hospital really is five minutes walk away, which definitely has its
advantages, regardless of the problems. A couple of other possible
hospitals also have terrible reputations. St George's really isn't too
bad as they go.
I think the bottom line is that I don't want to be in hospital. Any
hospital. I know I might have to, and that's ok. If I have to have
surgery or whatever, that's ok. It's starting off that awful cascade of
intervention, in an alien and dirty place, that I desperately want to
avoid *if I can*.
Cheers for the sympathy, now could you get your DH to fax me a nice cup
of tea please?
--
Mogget
Sidheag McCormack
there, if you haven't already. The two pieces of advice usually given on
those groups are:
1) Write to the local Supervisor of Midwives, stating that you "plan" (not
"would like" or anything else that suggests you're asking permission) to
have a home birth, and asking her to arrange for you to have midwifery care
from a supportive midwife;
2) Contact AIMS, the Association for Improvement in the Maternity Services,
for detailed support and advice.
On ukmidwifery, you could also, if you chose, discuss the reasons why your
other midwife thought you'd be best advised to give birth in hospital;
people on that group (which is very very pro home birth) would probably be
able to help you get to the bottom of whether there are good reasons for
the advice, as well as being clear that it's actually your choice.
Good luck,
Sidheag
DS Colin Oct 27 2003
Linda
can't imagine how you must feel right now.
Linda (with all the sympathy I have)
Mum of Two
>
> I just saw my midwife Katie. She has resigned. Bloody politics.
> Basically she was hounded out. I don't blame her in the slightest for
> going. I wouldn't want to work in that culture of blame either.
>
> But this leaves me in the lurch. If I stick with the local hospital, to
> which she was attached, I'll no longer have an ally against the bullying
> obstetricians, and it will be just some random midwife on the day, rather
> than having a trusted ally.
(((((Mogget)))))
--
Amy
Mum to Carlos born sleeping 20/11/02,
& Ana born screaming 30/06/04
http://www.freewebs.com/carlos2002/
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/a/ana%5Fj%5F2004/
My blog: http://spaces.msn.com/members/querer-hijo-querer-hija/
KC
I don't really know about VBAC as that was never an issue for me, but I
have diabetes and they wanted me all strapped up with monitors and IVs,
so what I did on my second and third births was to just try to wait as
long as possible to get to the hospital, so that I would be pestered by
them as little as possible. That resulted in one baby coming out with
nobody catching her shortly after arrival at the hospital and one baby
born in a car. I have no regrets. That was much better than my first
birth where I was all strapped down.
Good luck with whatever you do.
KC
Todd Gastaldo
(It's the same in the US.)
Moggett fears that she will "probably forced" to lie on her back:
> ...they'll probably refuse to handle me at all, and shove
> me under the complete "care" (hahaha) of the
> obstetricians/endocrinologists just like I was last time at C&W. I'll
> get to meet some random midwife on the day - and I know just how well
> that worked last time - who will likely be dealing with three or four
> other labouring women. In a revolting hospital environment that I
> desperately wanted to avoid, probably forced to lie flat on my back
> strapped to a monitor being shouted at if I so much as twitch.
This is not a new fear for women...
In 1982, Sheila Kitzinger publicly protested forcing laboring women into the
supine position as she led a march of thousands on London's Royal Free
Hospital.
The Times (London) of April 5, 1982 carried an article titled, "5,000 join
natural childbirth rally," and reported that Ms. Kitzinger and the National
Childbirth Trust had organized the rally after a woman wrote to a local
newspaper to complain that she was made to lie supine during birth.
According to the article, a television newsreader named Anna Ford told the
rally that she had been able to give birth in the squatting position at West
London Hospital. Ms. Ford reportedly said other people should not be denied
that right.
On July 15, 1982, The Times carried a follow-up article:
"Professor Ian Craft, head of the department of obstetrics and gynecology at
London's Royal Free Hospital and Mr. Yehudi Gordon, senior lecturer, are
resigning...
"Professor Craft is said to have resigned for personal reasons, but he is
known to have been disturbed by the Active Birth Movement (ABM) campaign
against his teaching that women and their babies are least at risk if
delivery takes place with the mother on her back so that full use can be
made of modern monitoring equipment."
On November 1, 1982, The Times reported that 2,750, mostly midwives,
attended the Active Birth Movement's first conference on October 30, 1982,
and that tickets were sold out three weeks in advance.
The day before, on October 31, 1982, The Times reported, "Sheila Kitzinger,
doyen of them all, was personally enthusiastic about squatting positions and
was pressing on with her campaign for home delivery as well as direct entry
into midwifery." Significantly, Ms. Kitzinger was quoted as saying, "the
territory is controlled by the obstetricians."
BIZARRELY, UK ADOPTED SEMISITTING/"THE RECLINING POSITION"...
For whatever reason, semi-sitting became the most common delivery position
in the UK by 1989. [Garcia J, Garforth S. Labour and delivery routines in
English consultant maternity units. Midwifery 1989;5:155-62]
Janet Balaskas said in 1982:
"In the reclining position the weight of the body on the sacrum limits it's
mobility and reduces the diameter of the pelvic outlet between the symphysis
pubis and the coccyx to the maximum, losing approximately 30 percent of the
possible opening compared to squatting or kneeling forward."
--Active Birth Manifesto, Janet and Arthur Balaskas, 1982, Copyright 1982
Janet Balaskas.
http://www.activebirthcentre.com/pb/pbababmanifesto.html <--LINK DEAD
One of the Royal Free doctors who resigned, Yehudi Gordon, is acknowledged
as a friend of the Active Birth Movement in Balaskas' 1994 book Active
Birth.
I think it truly bizarre that Kitzinger, the National Childbirth Trust and
Balaskas are not demanding that obstetricians stop closing birth canals the
"extra" up to 30% - especially when babies are expected to be big - as in
Moggett's case, being diabetic...
Todd
Dr. Gastaldo
Hillsboro, Oregon
USA
to...@chiromotion.com
Mogget
I have booked here:
http://www.birthcentre.com/what_we_do.htm
The place itself, which I like and can see myself giving birth at in
preference to being at home, is right by St George's. So in the event
of a problem, it will be quick to get to hospital. I will have two
midwives who will come with me & be doulas if I do need to go to
hospital.
I think this is quite a good outcome, really. What I most needed was
continuity of care from known, reliable, trusted people. I will get
that, even if things go wrong and I do end up needing a hospital
environment.
It was damn lucky, though. The Birth Centre was my preference from the
start; I went and looked around it & spoke to the people very early in
this pregnancy. I had filled in the booking form & written out the
cheque & everything, and then I met Katie, and she was so good I decided
to stick with her rather than spend umpty-ump grand on private midwives.
However, when I rang the Birth Centre yesterday, they had one place left
for January. Thank God for that. I feel damn lucky.
I have not met the midwives who will be "mine", but one of them will be
on holiday for a good part of January. I'm not complaining, hell no,
because Caroline herself will stand in for her.
What I need, I think, is somebody with the skills and experience to get
me through the birth safely.... and they will also need the skills and
experience to be able to tell when things are *not* going right. I was
sure Katie had that. I am also quite sure Caroline has it.
It's blurry spensive though.
--
Mogget
Mogget
<kathy....@sun.com> writes
We should talk! I would love to hear your experiences (email me if you
don't want to post). What kind are you, T1 or T2? I'm mild T2, easily
controlled by diet alone when not pregnant. It gets much harder when
pg, but I can still just about manage it. Are you on insulin or
metformin, or something else?
What size were your babies? Did they pester you to be induced early?
And... why did you bother with a hospital at all, after the first time?
--
Mogget
Mogget
In message <BF9B7CC1.92C8%tgas...@earthlink.net>, Todd Gastaldo
<tgas...@earthlink.net> writes
>UK BIRTH FOLLIES...
>
>(It's the same in the US.)
>
>Moggett fears that she will "probably forced" to lie on her back:
Yes. I was last time. But to be quite clear, I never made it into
labour. That was for being induced (which failed completely). Being
supine for delivery wasn't the issue. My gripe is that they were trying
to induce labour, but being forced to lie flat and still is no way to
get labour going.
Besides, after the first epidural top-up, I had lost the use of my legs.
I think that may be another reason why reclining deliveries happen so
much.
>I think it truly bizarre that Kitzinger, the National Childbirth Trust and
>Balaskas are not demanding that obstetricians stop closing birth canals the
>"extra" up to 30% - especially when babies are expected to be big - as in
>Moggett's case, being diabetic...
Hmph. Yes I am diabetic but my baby is not expected to be big. Growth
scans show he/she/it/banana is totally average size.
--
Mogget
Anne Rogers
closest private birthing centre to us, but it's too far for me to consider
trying to have a baby there, but if I have another baby, there is a high
chance we will go private.
Anne
Mum of Two
> Fab. I've made it into the Gastaldo Times.
Nah. You've got to get your name in the headlines if you want to be really
famous. You just got a passing mention ;-)
Todd Gastaldo
I quoted Mogget in The Gastaldo Times.
See UK birth follies
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/4042
Mogget wrote:
>> Fab. I've made it into the Gastaldo Times.
Amy (Mum of Two) replied:
> Nah. You've got to get your name in the headlines if you want to be really
> famous. You just got a passing mention ;-)
>
Mogget's reply should be made famous.
She made an excellent point which I will discuss in reply to her post.
Todd
Todd Gastaldo
See quote from MONGELLI et al. at the very end of this post...
PREGNANT WOMEN: Obstetricians are using semisitting and dorsal delivery
thereby closing birth canals up to 30%. See Gastaldo TD. Birth.
1992;19:230-1.
WORSE: Obstetricians are KEEPING women semisitting or dorsal - keeping birth
canals closed the "extra" up to 30% when babies get stuck.
Still worse: Obstetricians are lying to cover-up.
For the Four OB cover-up lies (they are whoppers)...
See Dents in babies' skulls...
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/3897
in article raN+osVK...@scat.demon.co.uk, Mogget at
bi...@scat.demon.co.uk wrote on 11/12/05 12:39 PM:
> to be quite clear, I never made it into
> labour. That was for being induced (which failed completely). Being
> supine for delivery wasn't the issue. My gripe is that they were trying
> to induce labour, but being forced to lie flat and still is no way to
> get labour going.
>
This is an EXCELLENT point in my opinion.
From the perspective of closing the birth canal (MECHANICAL inhibition), it
is not necessary to be off one's sacrum allowing baby to open the pelvic
outlet before baby arrives at the pelvic outlet.
That said, closing the birth canal the 'extra' up to 30% before baby gets to
the outlet is, in my opinion, very likely causing NEUROLOGICAL inhibition:
The sacroiliac joint is being torqued exactly opposite the direction
necessary to let the baby push through - likely sending inhibitory signals
into the nervous system.
See Uterine rupture! (Attn: British Gray's Anatomy) - was Re:
Fetus-expulsion reflex vs. fetus-ejection reflex
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/4034
> Besides, after the first epidural top-up, I had lost the use of my legs.
> I think that may be another reason why reclining deliveries happen so
> much.
>
But reclining delivery positioning is happening BEFORE "first epidural
top-ups." Indeed, reclining delivery positioning may be CAUSING "first
epidural top-ups" - torquing the sacroiliac joint exactly the opposite
direction may cause (as indicated above) inhibition of progress - at which
point obstetricians chemically whip the uterus to contract violently -
causing MORE pain and understandable demands for "first epidural top-ups."
I do not mean to imply here that demands for epidurals are not
understandable with normal delivery pains - but then again most normal
delivery pains occur with birth canals senselessly closed the "extra" up to
30% - which is why I wrote...
>> I think it truly bizarre that Kitzinger, the National Childbirth Trust and
>> Balaskas are not demanding that obstetricians stop closing birth canals the
>> "extra" up to 30% - especially when babies are expected to be big - as in
>> Moggett's case, being diabetic...
>
> Hmph. Yes I am diabetic but my baby is not expected to be big. Growth
> scans show he/she/it/banana is totally average size.
Sorry Mogget.
Glad to hear that scans show your baby is "totally average size."
In regard to scans for fetal macrosomia...
MONGELLI et al. [Oct. 2005] recently wrote:
"Most formulae tend to over-diagnose macrosomia at term. Intervention rates
for suspected fetal macrosomia may be influenced by gestational age at the
time of scan and the type of fetal weight estimation formula in use."
[Ultrasound Obstet Gynecol. 2005 Oct;26(5):500-3. PubMed abstract]
Attention Mongelli et al. (via max_mo...@yahoo.com):
Intervention rates for suspected fetal macrosomia have likely been
influenced by the fact that obstetricians routinely close birth canals up to
30% and routinely KEEP birth canals closed the "extra" up to 30% when babies
get stuck.
As indicated above, obstetricians are lying to cover-up...
Again, for the Four OB Lies (they are whoppers)...
See Dents in babies' skulls...
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/chiro-list/message/3897
Thanks for reading everyone.
(Scroll up a little for the MONGELLI et al. quote.)
Sincerely,
Todd
Dr. Gastaldo
Hillsboro, Oregon
USA
to...@chiromotion.com
This post will be archived for global access in the Google usenet archive.
Search http://groups.google.com for "Over-diagnosing fetal macrosomia at
term."
Mogget
<bi...@scat.demon.co.uk> writes
>In message <4NWdneQEDfMZMene...@adelphia.com>, V.
><v...@nospam.com> writes
>
>>Poor baby! :( You're having a heck of a week!
>
>Yeah and it comes in threes, right? I wonder what the third will be...
>got the MIL staying this weekend and she's already driving me nuts, so
>maybe it's her :-)
I was wrong.
It appears that the third - please God let it be the last - is a
seriously mangled back. This morning I made the mistake of trying to
lift my daughter and something went on the right, about pelvis level.
Major ow. Since then I can barely move. It hurts, a lot, even when
still, and essaying the merest move is more pain than I can stand.
I went to see my favourite osteo this afternoon. He says it's the SI
joint, not the spine. Good. But he worked on it for 45 mins, and
there's certainly no relief yet. Exhausted from the pain, I had a nap
when DH came home. It was only half an hour, but it was enough for my
back to freeze. It took me another half an hour to stand upright.
Feck. It's going to have to be paracetamol, just to function. Feck.
Shame, because it was a good day otherwise - I went to see the battery
of consultants at the diabetic clinic, not having seen them for ten
weeks on account of the pneumonia - and they were very happy with me,
and congratulated me on my blood sugar control, impressed that I am
doing without insulin. That was very nice, to be affirmed in my
efforts, not having to battle it out.
--
Mogget
V.
Ack! Hope that back issue clears up before birth...do lots of heat/cold and
get rest. IMHO, the negative effects of the pain are worse than any chance
Tylenol, etc would be harmful to the baby, so if you need to take it, don't
try to be a hero. The thing about pain is that you have to stay on top of
it, sometimes if you wait until you feel you "need" to take something it's
too late to really recover.
Good for you with the blood sugar! I'm so impressed...I was so worried that
I'd get GD because I am terrible about managing my diet. I can't imagine
dealing with diabetes on a regular basis!
Hope you feel better soon!
Amy