New Topic. Differance in first names

[cmurray56]

Could some one please advise me if the following two names can be
taken as the same meaning, or are they totally different names. I have
two marriage certificates one of each belonging to two brothers. Muniz
brothers from San Roque, on their marriage certificates their fathers
first name is different, the mothers names are the same. Their
fathers names are ' Jose' and the other is 'Francisco'. do these
names have the same meaning? Or would they be two different people?
Best Wishes
Chris

[Richard Francis Pimentel]

Hi Chris,

First off Francisco and Jose are different.

You did not give an approximate date of these records but some of the later
records 1860 + in Sao Miguel give the names of the grandparents.

It is possible they got the father's name wrong on one of the records (I
have seen this once or twice). I would look for the birth records of both
brothers and compare information there. Most birth records give the names
of the grandparents.



Rick

Richard Francis Pimentel
Spring, TX
Formerly of Epping, New Hampshire

Researching, Riberia Grande, Riberinha Ponta Delgada, and Achada Grande,
Sao Miguel, Acores

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[chris murray]

Hi Rick, Thankyou for your reply. Im sorry i should have explained the certificates more. The marriage certificates are Australian.  There is mistakes on Australian certs, spelling etc.  We do not have birth certs, as the place of birth on the marriage certificates only say Sao Roque, Azores Portugal.  We dont have an arrival date, the birth dates we have come from the  marriage certs as well. There is doubts that the two men are brothers. Their names are as follows,

Francisco Joaquim Muniz b 1836 Sao Roque, Azores, Portugal  d 1899 Smythesdale,Victoria,Australia

father;  Jose Joaquia Muniz

mother; Maria Joaquina

Francisco has a different version of his name on all his 9 childrens birth certificates

 

Manuel Carrerio Muniz b 1826 Sao Roque,Azores,Portugal  d 1882 Creswick,Victoria,Australia

father ; Manuel Francisco Carrerio Muniz

mother;  Maria Jaoquina Rea

Manuel changed his surname to Monish in Australia

 

I have tried to find this family in the Azores on this site before but havent had any luck, thankyou for your advise 

Best Wishes

Chris

 

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[Joao S. Lopes]

There are ate least 3 parishes called Sao Roque, in Terceira, Sao Miguel and Pico. I think Muniz is more common at Sao Miguel.

]

Joao S. Lopes

---

De: chris murray <cmur...@yahoo.com.au>
Para: "azo...@googlegroups.com" <azo...@googlegroups.com>
Enviadas: Quarta-feira, 2 de Maio de 2012 2:43
Assunto: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] New Topic. Differance in first names

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[Richard Francis Pimentel]

Looking at the full names my impression is that they are not related. They may be distant cousins.

 

I would consider immigration patterns. Many times a person would emigrate and in his he would write home and tell his friends or relatives and they would immigrate to the same location. In your case there are two families from Sao Roque. For you and I am assuming you live in Australia it is difficult as I do not know  what  resources are available and If the LDS has any Family History Centers nearby. If there is one then you could order the films with the church records in the Azores to search. The only other option is to wait until the films are put on line at the CCA website.

 

Rick

 

Richard Francis Pimentel

Spring, TX

Formerly of Epping, New Hampshire

 

Researching, Riberia Grande, Riberinha Ponta Delgada, and Achada Grande,  Sao Miguel, Acores

 

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[chris murray]

Thankyou Rick, It is hard because in Australia we do not have access to some records we need. There is a LDS a couple of hours away, so it will be worth the trip to see the films. what should i ask for to be ordered?

[chris murray]

Hi Joao,  thankyou for your help

Best Wishes Chris

From: Joao S. Lopes <josi...@yahoo.com.br>
To: "azo...@googlegroups.com" <azo...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 3 May 2012 3:35 AM
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] New Topic. Differance in first names

There are ate least 3 parishes called Sao Roque, in Terceira, Sao Miguel and Pico. I think Muniz is more common at Sao Miguel.

]

Joao S. Lopes

[Richard Francis Pimentel]

Hi Chris,

 

I am not sure how things work there at the LDS but here in the states we order the films on line and pay for them on line. The film is then sent from Salt Lake City to the local LDS Family History Center. I would give them a call first to find out how it works there and save a long trip for nothing.

 

I have looked up the two films I would start with from the LDS Site. https://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=titlefilmnotes&columns=*%2C0%2C0&titleno=384805&disp=Registros+paroquiais++  You can go here to see the other films for Sao Roque. The information below is what you will need to order the films.

 

Title	Registros paroquiais, 1556-1883
Authors	Igreja Católica. São Roque (Rosto de Cão, Ponta Delgada) (Main Author)

 

 

Batismos 1804-1876

FHL INTL Film 1330794

 

 

Casamentos 1622-1869

FHL INTL Film 1330795 Items 5-8

 

 

Your Brother in Christ,

 

Rick

 

SK Rick Pimentel

Council 10872 – Chancellor

Assembly 2683 - Member

Spring, Texas

832-813-8111

[belle...@gmail.com]

Richard and Chris,

My relatives in Sweden have ordered films from the FHC and it takes a little longer and maybe a little more money to receive them but he has been able to access the films he was interested in about his/my family from Croatia/Italy. I believe you can order them online on the FHC site to be sent to the local FHC. However, remember that Joao Ventura can probably obtain this information ( him at a minimal charge and you don't pay until he finds them and I believe he has paypal now. Might be a lot less expensive alternative than ordering films and going to FHC to view them. Just a thought.

"E"

[chris murray]

Hi Rick,  Thanks so much for your information, it helps me so much, now i know what ive got to do and what films i need to look at,  im very gratefull for youre help

Best Wishes Chris

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[Maria Lima]

Hi Chris:

For arrival date did you check the Public Records Office Victoria, Unassisted Passengers in 1853, specifically the ship the WATER LILY October.  That ship had mostly all people from the Azores going to the   Im not sure- maybe it was 1852 but play around with those names and enter the name of the ship.  

I found our ancestors by entering de Lima.  I think I've seen the correio name there. 

It appears the goldrush fever spread to our ancestors in the Azores.  It must have cost them a fortune to get there, travel fm Melbourne and to Creswick area.  That is where I first found the 2 Lima brothers - in the Creswick and Clunes Register and Advertiser.  By the way, my 2 Lima brothers were born about same time as yours- 1836 and 1838. These guys had to know each other don't you think?

Good luck. 

.    

Maria Elena

[chris murray]

Hi Maria, Good to talk to you again.  I still cant find the Muniz men arrival in Australia. I did find the Correiro name on the Water Lily list but dont know if any of them are our Muniz men there is quite a few of them and i dont know how to work out if one is mine.   Manuel Carreiro Muniz did change his name from Muniz to Monish when he was came to Australia, we have his details from Creswick, Victoria.   So there's a good chance that he knew your relies.  Francisco Joaquim Muniz kept this name the same untill his death in Australia. Thankyou for your help, i havent got any further with my reasearch since i last spoke to you. Only last week i made contact with a gg grandson of Manuel and we are swapping details. It was a great delight to at last find a relation from the Muniz / Monish family.

Best Wishes

Chris

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[Maria Lima]

Dear Chris - it's good to see you are making a connection  with a descendant.  I'd love to hear what he knows about our ancestors that left the Azores for the Goldfields.  How did u find him?

I'm not surprised the name was changed- my husband's maternal grandfather is domingos moniz Machado.  Some of his relatives changed the Machado to Marshall but he kept his mothers name(Moniz) and Machado.

Maria Elena

[Maria Lima]

Hi Chris: 

Here's a MONIZ I found sailing to Azores from Azores but it's 1907.  Jacob is Joachim in Portuguese.  Does he fit the timeframe of yr ancestor?   could have been a second voyage.  Maybe check all names on the DUMBEA for that voyage.

Family Name	Given Name	Age	Month	Year	Ship	Port	Fiche	Page
MONIZ	JACOB M	44	JUN	1907	DUMBEA	F	395	003
MONIZATTI	PIETRO	25	DEC	1890	ELBE	F	264	006

Maria Elena

[chris murray]

Hi Maria, Thanks for your reply and for the information on the meaning of Joaquim, also for the ship details, alas the both Muniz men had passed away by that date.

 

Francisco Joaquim Muniz b ABT 1836 Sao Roque,  married 1859 Smythesdale, Victoria Australia , d 1899 Smythesdale,Victoria,Australia.

Mannuel Carreiro Muniz b ABT 1826 Sao Roque, married 1878 Creswick,Victoria,Australia, d 1882 Creswick,Victoria ,Australia

 

Best Wishes

Chris

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[Paul Lima]

Hi, Chris

Just was notiing that Manuel Carrero Muniz married at 52 years old!!  does that sound right?  then  he died 4 years later.  Did you say he had posterity?  When I get over to the Family History Center, I will see if one of my films covers the years of birth  for your ancestors time frame.   I have a couple of films on file for Sao Roque.  just not sure if it's the year of birth 1826.  I sure would like to help you find your ancestors parents.  Do you need that?

Cheers,

Maria Elena  

[Dolores Coyle]

My Great Great Grandfather married at 75 -and his bride was pregnant!

 

Dolores

[Pam Santos]

Yeah I have an ancestor that married at 71 to second wife, and had 26 kids between both wifes. his 2nd wife was 16 ouch.

[chris murray]

HI Dolores, thats funny about  your gg Grandpa , he must have been pretty fit

 

Hi Maria,  Yes please i really do need help with finding the Muniz family in Azores.  Manuel had 4 children with Louisa before he married her in 1878 in Creswick ,Victoria. 'The 4 children were all given the surname Monish when their births were registered  1870-1878.    although their father's name on his death certificate stills read Muniz.   On the marriage certificate that belongs to Manuel the name Muniz has been crossed out 3 times and the surname Monish has replaced it.   The birth dates are from the Muniz men's  Australian marriage certificates as we do not have their birth certificates, so they are approximate dates.  We are still trying to find their arrival dates in Australia, we have found a few but the dates dont match the ages, way out by 20yrs or so.  I give or take a 10yr gap but 15-20yrs is too large.    Im not sure what posterity is, dont think i put that down, will check my emails.   Thankyou

Best Wishes

Chris

[cmurray56]

Hi E, Could you please tell me how to contact Joao Ventura that does
the record searches as i dont know where to? I was going to order the
LDS films but found out they are written in Portuguse which i cant
speak or read. We shared posts on th 5th May about Francisco Joaquim
Muniz b 1835 Sao Roque
Best Wishes
Chris

[Cheri Mello]

All the researchers for hire are on this list and their contact info can be found on the Azores GenWeb site on the main home page :

goo.gl/3IOaL

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

[chris murray]

Hi Cheri,  Thankyou

Best Wishes

Chris