Lema from Sao Miguel, b 1870s & 1880s to Seekonk, MA and Rhode Island

[Cheri Mello]

Repost for Ceeshouse, cshouse at optonline.net

I'm new to the list and looking up my mother's family. According to the
1920 Census, John and Mary (Joao and Mariana) came to the US I presume
through the port of Boston or close by in 1900. They settled in Seekonk, MA
and were both naturalized in 1907. They went on to have seven children who
all born in Rhode Island. My grandmother died when my mother was only about
4 so she doesn't remember much. I'm going to be making a trip to the
Archives in a few weeks, but figured I'd post to he list in the meantime.

My mother always thought her grandparents were from Cape Verde, but the
census says St. Michael Portugal which would indicate the Azores, I believe.

John Lema - age 49 - b. 1871

Mary - age 36 - b 1884

Frank - b. 1907

Robert - b. 1908

Annie - b. 1910

Clara - b. 1912

Louis - b. 1914

Joseph - b. 1915

Ammela - b. 1918

In 1920 they're living on Hunt St, but at some point they lived at 165
Carpenter.

To her knowledge, Robbie, Louie and Annie made it to adulthood.

Robert married Celia and had 3 children, Beverly who died as a toddler,
Barbara and Joyce.

Louie Married 2 or 3 times. first to Lena then much later to Mildred with
whom he adopted John Michael who wound up in an institution or ward of the
state after Millies death in the late 70's or early 80's

Upon the death of her mother, my mother went to live (and was legally
adopted by) her father in Providence. We presume he wasn't listed on her
birth certificate. She has the adoption papers somewhere, but can't locate
them. I know they must contain some valuable info.

When I get to the area, I'm looking forward to getting copies of the
Naturalization papers for John and Mary as well as birth and death records
for Annie's Siblings.

My mother also had a brother Joey (Joseph) Lima who was born about 1930 and
drowned somewhere around 1940. We think Joey had a different father, as it
doesn't appear he was adopted by her father. I had at one time found a
newspaper clipping about the accident, but she has since misplaced it. I
had given her all the documents after taking her to the archives in NYC, but
it was all damaged in a flood in her home. I don't think I made copies
unfortunately.

Any advice about Azores records would be greatly appreciated.

[Dano]

RI State Archives are good - but limited; its jurisdiction is limited
to Rhode Island events.You can research Births (1878-1914), Marriages
(1724-1916), Deaths (1802-1950), and Residency - RI State Census
(1885-1935) conducted on the 5th year after each Federal Census; also,
the Archive mantains City Directories for each of the State's 39
Cities and Towns - from abt 1900 to the present. In addition to the RI
State Archives , the Rhode island Historical Society has NARA
microfilm copies of ship's passenger lists, for arrivals through the
Port of Providence (contact the RIHS for specific Information). For
Probate and Federal Court Records, Contact RI Superior Court , and US
District Court for RI, for information.

n.b. Immigration and Naturalization records for RI are not housed at
the RI State Archives; they are housed along with those of the rest of
the N.E. area at the National Archives, in Waltham Massachusetts.
Again, contact NARA for specifics.

[Eileen Leite]

You can access the following RI databases online for free:

# Rhode Island Births and Christenings, 1878-1914
# Rhode Island Deaths and Burials, 1802-1950
# Rhode Island Marriages, 1724-1916
# Rhode Island State Census, 1915
# Rhode Island State Census, 1925
# Rhode Island, State Census, 1885
# Rhode Island, State Census, 1905

They have the following Massachusetts databases, all free:

# Massachusetts Births and Christenings, 1639-1915
# Massachusetts Deaths and Burials, 1795-1910
# Massachusetts Deaths, 1841-1915
# Massachusetts Marriages, 1695-1910
# Massachusetts Marriages, 1841-1915
# Massachusetts Naturalization Index, 1906-1966
# Massachusetts State Census, 18551
# Massachusetts State Census, 1865

Got to www.Familysearch.org.
Scroll down to bottom half of page, and select USA, Canada and Mexico.
Then scroll down to Rhode Island (or Massachusetts). Note that many of these
databases are updated periodically, so check back if you can't find someone.
Some of the Mass ones were updated as recently as Dec 28, 2010.

Familysearch has an abundance of records, some with links to the original
document. All free.

Eileen Leite

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[Steven McNamara]

I am trying to find a marriage from 1920-1925. Joseph S. Viera and Mary
Angel Rebello from New Bedford. I couldn't find any record of them getting
married in New Bedford or at the State vital records in Boston. I assume
they may have gotten married in a different state. Maybe Rhode Island since
it is so close. I noticed the marriage records only go up to 1915. Does
anyone know how I could check for the 1920's? (His parents lived in
Brooklyn, New York. So they may have gone there? I just don't know)

Thanks,

Steven

[K a r e n H]

I thought there was a church in NB where they kept a listing of events such as marriage, baptism.  You wouldn't necessarily get the marriage certificate, but my memory tells me, you would get some information about it.  Anyone?

Karen

[gilf...@comcast.net]

Portuguese marriages in New Bedford were earlier at St.John.s in the Southend and then later at Immaculate Conception in the northend.  They would have any records that were performed there.  Baptism,Marriage and Death. 

[Cheri Mello]

Steven,

FamilySearch has some online (or at least an index).  www.familysearch.org  See if they have the year(s) you want.

I doubt that it's 100% complete.  It's a work in progress.

But if you could locate them on the 1925 RI census, that might help. 

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

[Steven McNamara]

I did check in New Bedford with both St. Johns and city hall.  They didn’t have it.  Then I tried the Mass State vital records in Boston and searched the whole state, still no luck.  According to the family they believed they always lived in New Bedford.  So I was thinking maybe they just got married in a different state.  I do know he was in the Army during WWI and was stationed in Arizona.  But according to my mother in law, her mother Mary never went out there. 

 

The mystery continues…..

 

Thanks,

 

Steven

 

---

[Cheri Mello]

Arizona Birth and Death are online, but not marriages:
http://genealogy.az.gov/

[AC]

I've found a few documents re: my mother's family and although the 1920
census says St. Michael, Portugal, my grandmother's death certificate says
her parents were from the "Cape Verde Islands"... yes I know information is
often suspect, I've seen incorrect information on legal documents many
times, the respondent us usually doing the best they can.

I was just wondering how often the two are interchanged... Is it a situation
where Cape Verdeans may have gone to the Azores THEN on to other places?
This is very common in the Carribean... someone might be born in Guyana but
lived in and emigrated to the US from Trinidad or Tobago or Barbados

I haven't had a chance to look for the naturalizations yet, I'm hopeful
they'll yield better info.

Alexis

_______________________________________
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[Cheri Mello]

Alexis,

In my experience, people do not interchange Cape Verde with Azores.  Or with Madeira for that matter.

Look at the naturalization.  I'd work from the 1920 census.  Someone in the house most likely gave the info.  Hopefully, that person knew.  And it is more specific - they named Sao Miguel. 

The 1920 has the immigration year.  Hopefully, it's in the right time period.  Use that year and start searching at the CCA web site for the emigration OUT of Sao Miguel.  If you don't find it that year, check a year before or a year after.

http://pg.azores.gov.pt/drac/cca/ig/
Passaportes on the right.  Then pick Ponta Delgada.
The site does NOT work with Firefox/Mozilla.

Some years are missing.  Hopefully, yours isn't.

[John Raposo]

The census can be notoriously unreliable. Just imagine white Anglo cenus takers knocking on doors of 3-decker cold water flats in Fall River in 1910 or 1920 and being greeted by a non-English speaking forty-ish woman with 6 kids hanging around her skirts, using her 8 year old to translate. The cenus takers filled in the blanks as best they could. All of this explains why 10 years later the information on the same family was sometimes very fifferent.

 

John Miranda Raposo

---

From: AC <csh...@optonline.net>
To: azo...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, January 13, 2011 10:24:19 PM
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Cape Verde vs. Azores

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[belle...@gmail.com]

Alexis,

In the 1930 census, the family is living at 240 Malta (looks like Malta) Street, Seekonk, MA

Joseph C. 27, b. RI, married at age 25, stevedore/steamship company, parents b. Portugal
wife: Anna 21 b. RI
John C. 60, b. Portugal, widower, stevedore/steamship company, came to US 1895, NA
Louis J. 16, b. RI, parents b. Portugal
Amelia M. 12, b. MA parents b. Portugal

Mary died between 1920 and 1930. Since they are living in Seekonk in 1920 and 1930, you should be able to get her death record and/or obituary from that arae. Since you say your grandmother died when your mom, Annie?, Amelia?, was about 4, this should help you pinpoint her death date even further. First, I would call the local Seekonk cemeteries and see if they have a Mary Lema who died between 1920/1930 and if they can give you a more precise date, you could get her death record. I would try the main library in Seekonk, usually reference dept. to see if they might be able to help you. You can email them from this site: http://www.seekonkpl.org/reference.html They usually like to have an exact date of death, but sometimes you can get a sympathetic person who is willing to help....remember our libraries are in dire straights these days so they may be shorthanded. I always make a small donation $10 to the local libraries for their assistance.

If you would like me to forward the actual 1930 census from the Ancestry site, I will gladly do so.

Hope this helps.

"E"

[belle...@gmail.com]

Alexis,

I did find this RI marriage record. Not sure if it is them as surname is spelled with i instead of e. Do you know Maria/Mariana's maiden name?

Spouse 1: Maria J De Freitas
Spouse 2: Joao P De Lima
Marriage Date: 24 Aug 1895

"E"

[AC]

WOW so much information…. I have my grandparents name and their date of immigration (1900) from St. Michael and naturalization (1907) based on the 1920 census.  My sister sent me some stuff that she retrieved from my mother’s  including my grandmother and uncle’s death certificates and my mom’s adoption papers (she was adopted by her father after her mother’s death)  Apparently Joseph (my uncle’s father and Anna’s husband) and Anna separated sometime between 1930 and 1933.

 

I also found out from her dc that her my great-grandmother’s maiden name was Jibon, so I can now add that to my info J

 

The reason I asked the question is that my grandmother’s death certificate says her parents were born in the Cape Verde Islands… her older brother Robbie was the respondent.  Almost every one of my husband’s West Indian relatives were born in either Barbados or Guyana and not one of them emigrated to the US from Barbados LOL

 

I will have to keep all the advice everyone has sent until Sunday , you have NO idea how much I want to call in sick today!  LOl

 

Thanks to everyone for the hints and tips, I’ll let you know how it progresses!

 

Alexis

 

From: azo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:azo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cheri Mello
In my experience, people do not interchange Cape Verde with Azores.  Or with Madeira for that matter.

[AC]

Hi Cheri,

 

I tried that site the other day  and you are correct, it doesn’t work in firefox… As a note, it also doesn’t work if you use Google translate and since I DO NOT speak Portuguse I’m winging it LOL.  My mother was adopted by her father who was not Portuguese… then grew up (until about 14 ) with a non relative (also not Portuguese) then moved to NYC with same non-relative.

 

She remembers speaking it when very young but not beyond about 5.

 

From: azo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:azo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cheri Mello
http://pg.azores.gov.pt/drac/cca/ig/
Passaportes on the right.  Then pick Ponta Delgada.

[Dolores Coyle]

In the census, I have found that my family is from WI (Western Islands-though translated to Wisconsin), Azores, Portugal, and Soa Jorge.  Take your pick.

 

 

Dolores Coyle

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[eric edgar]

Looks like I missed a post here. Were you looking for a Lima or Lema family with a Cape Verde origin.?

 

Eric Edgar

--

[Cheri Mello]

Alexis,

Google translate (or any translate) will not work on the CCA web site.  The images are in JPG and are written out in handwriting.  The online translaters seem to only work on the typed words.  So if you wanted to read some of the other sections on the CCA web site that were typed up about how to research, where to begin, etc, it will translate that.  But it will not translate any of the images in the research sections.

The emigration out the Azores from Ponta Delgada exists for 1900.  It's split into two files.  Pick the first one, go the end and start searching the names.  When you find them, copy the entire URL, tell us which lines your ancestors are on and post it to the list for someone to translate the rest of the info.  It will state where they are born (island and freguesia/village).

Many people here had to learn to bumble their way through the records. They follow a format.  It takes some time and patience, but you can learn to "read" the records.

[Cheri Mello]

Dolores,

And George Pacheco has reported to Family Search not to abbreviate Azores as Arizona.  I've seen some other really strange, random stuff too in their index.

It's not uncommon for people from the Azores to say Portugal.  They do it even today.  They figure people don't know where the Azores are, so they just say Portugal.  Drives me nuts.  Someone will be missing from band for a couple of weeks and I"ll ask where they are and the response is Portugal.  I have to ask if it's the continent or the Azores.  ARGH!  I know where the Azores are.  I don't know why they say that.  Why can't the just say Azores, Terceira, Pico or whatever?

Cheri

[pere...@cox.net]

Hi Steven,
Check the Fairhaven, MA town clerk's office. I have found several New Bedford relatives records there that weren't recorded elsewhere in the state. I did it via telephone too. Here is the link: http://fairhaven-ma.gov/Pages/FairhavenMA_TownClerk/index
Good luck!

Pat

---- Steven McNamara <skmcn...@comcast.net> wrote:
> I did check in New Bedford with both St. Johns and city hall. They didn't
> have it. Then I tried the Mass State vital records in Boston and searched
> the whole state, still no luck. According to the family they believed they
> always lived in New Bedford. So I was thinking maybe they just got married
> in a different state. I do know he was in the Army during WWI and was
> stationed in Arizona. But according to my mother in law, her mother Mary
> never went out there.
>
>
>

> The mystery continues...
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Steven
>
>
>
> _____

[csh...@optonline.net]

Hi,

My grandmother Anna Mary Lima b. abt 1909 In Rhode Island  (f. John C. Lema m. Mary Jibon Lima emigrated from St. Michael abt 1895-1900 presumably together.) Married Joseph C. Lima abt 1928 in either Providence or Seekonk.  Died at State Sanatorium at Burrillville March 1929

Sibligs include, Frank, Robert, Louis, Ammelia, Clara and Joseph.  I limited info about Robbie and Louie as adults.

According to the 1920 Census John & Mary came from St. Michael.  on Annie's death certificate, they're from the "Cape Verde Islands" but we know the information on such documents are subject tot he respondent.

[eric edgar]

Here is the parents Rhode Island marriage record from the FamilySearch site:

 

Joao Claudina Lima Rhode Island Marriages, 1724-1916	birth: 1871 parents: Francisco Lima, Claudina A. Lima spouse: Maria Jose Gibou marriage: 24 Oct 1905 — Providence, Providence, Rhode Island
record title:	Rhode Island Marriages, 1724-1916
groom's name:	Joao Claudina Lima
groom's birth date:	1871
groom's age:	34
bride's name:	Maria Jose Gibou
bride's birth date:	1883
bride's age:	22
marriage date:	24 Oct 1905
marriage place:	Providence, Providence, Rhode Island
groom's father's name:	Francisco Lima
groom's mother's name:	Claudina A. Lima
bride's father's name:	Jose Gibou
bride's mother's name:	Amelia S. Gibou
indexing project (batch) number:	I09438-7
system origin:	Rhode Island-EASy
source film number:	2208957

  Eric Edgar

--

[eric edgar]

Here is the brother's death record from Rhode Island.

 

 

 

Manuel Joseph Gibou

Rhode Island Deaths and Burials, 1802-1950

	birth: 1893 death: 16 May 1949 — Pawtucket, Providence, Rhode Island parents: Jose Gibou, Emily Santos
record title:

Rhode Island Deaths and Burials, 1802-1950

name:	Manuel Joseph Gibou
gender:	Male
death date:	16 May 1949
death place:	Pawtucket, Providence, Rhode Island
age:	56
birth date:	1893

father's name:	Jose Gibou

mother's name:	Emily Santos
indexing project (batch) number:	B03141-7
system origin:	Rhode Island-EASy
source film number:	2229194

Eric Edgar

[AC]

Hi Eric,

 

I just got in from work, thank for all your help… this looks like them! 

 

I was told the surname Jiban (listed as my great-grandmother’s maiden name)  on my grandmother’s death certificate was not a common name… has anyone ever heard of it?  and how common is Gibou? That you know of?

 

Alexis

 

 

From: azo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:azo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of eric edgar
Here is the parents Rhode Island marriage record from the FamilySearch site:

[AC]

Looking at a ship’s manifest, specifically the Daisy sailing from Brava arriving New Bedford May 1915 – Jiban looks suspiciously like Jibou which phonetically COULD be Gibou…

 

Is there a fairly comprehensive list of Portuguese surnames out there… I’ve googled it and come across a couple but the seem to be researcher specific.

 

Alexis

[eric edgar]

Alexis,

 

The name is probably Gibou and of French origin. I've seen a dozen variations in spelling. I think we've determined that they are not from the Azores. You can find sites for Cape Verde

 

research with a simple google search. Here is a link to the Cape Verde Archives with a form to send them for research

http://www1.umassd.edu/specialprograms/caboverde/greqform.html

 

ERic

 

--

[AC]

From: azo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:azo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of eric edgar

. I think we've determined that they are not from the Azores. You can find sites for Cape Verde…

 

We have?  I guessed I missed the memo LOL…  I’ve have two and only two places of origin that I know of thus far.

 

“St. Michael, Portugal” on the 1920 Census reported most likely by the immigrant themselves) and

 

“Cape Verde Islands” on a 1939 Death Certificate of the adult child of said immigrant reported by a sibling of the decedent   

 

 I’m not sure how a conclusion one way or the other can be made.  What are you basing your assumption on?

 

I imagine (and hope) when I get the naturalization papers, I’ll know better.

 

Alexis

 

[belle...@gmail.com]

Alexis,

The naturalization papers may or may not say where she is from. I have had NA papers that listed wife and children but did not say where the wife was from. I would order the birth/death records for the children we have found as they might tell you more.

"E"

[eric edgar]

Here's what you know so far from the records found.

 

 

Eric

--

["E" Sharp]

I found the following ship's manifest on Ancestry for Manuel Jose
Gibau 21....SS Daisy arriving New Bedford, May 29, 1915. He had been
in US before and was NA. He is leaving his father Jose Gibau and is
going to his sister Maria Gibau Lima 14 Link St. Providence.

.........could this be the family earlier?? Note the Link St.
addresses on both manifests..........

SS Zulmira arriving NY, June 10, 1905 - names are a little different
buy sure looks suspicious especially given Maria married Oct. 1905?
Emilia Gomes Gibau 46, going to husband Jose Gibau Goncalves, looks
like 34 Link St., Providence ch: Maria Gibau Goncalves 22, Justa
Gibau Goncalves 12, Manuel Gibau Goncalves 10. Could it be they
dropped the Goncalves surname that seems to happen every now and again
and used Gibau? Note, Emilia uses Gibau, not the Goncalves surname
that the children used. Did Jose, the father, and maybe other family
members return to Brava by 1915?

This is really going to confuse you, Alexis, if they are one and the
same...one more surname to deal with :-)

Does this look like the same family to anyone else?

"E"

["E" Sharp]

I think that Gibau Goncalves family is one and the same so they must
have dropped the Goncalves surname when they came to the US. And what
about the Emelia "Gomes" Gibau on ship manifest?? One more name to
deal with. The following is from FHC records.

Justa Jiban married 12/25/1907 Providence to Antone Vierra. His
parents Fedelis/Mary. Her parents Joseph/Milia (Emelia spelled
incorrectly).

Justa Gibou Vierra b. 1890 died 11/6/1949 in Providence. Spouse
Antone Vierra, father Joseph Gibou, mother Emilia Santos.

Justa and Antone had a son Joao b. 1919 and died 6/8/1920. They had a
daughter, no name listed, b. 10/3/1908 both Pvd.

Think that's all for a while. Have fun with this one......Gibau,
Gebo, Giban, Jiban, Jabon, Goncalves, Gomes, Santos. Good Luck!

"E"

[AC]

Eric et al,

 

Aren’t you making an assumption about the marriage certificate being theirs… I’m not saying it isn’t, but right  now it’s an assumption… now if I get it and the address match know addresses, that would be a different matter.

 

I’ve found other John/Joao/Jose and Mary/Maria/Mariannas, who seem to be a match as well.  Also there’s nothing that I could see on that marriage extract that says they’re from either Cape Verde or the Azores.

 

So unless I’ve missed something, (and I certainly admit that I could have) I’m not sure how you came to the conclusion of Cape Verde.  Is this indeed the consensus?  If so, please explain to me, I’d rather NOT drive myself nuts if the answer is right in front of me.

 

Alexis

 

From: azo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:azo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of eric edgar

[AC]

>This is really going to confuse you, Alexis, if they are one and the
same...one more surname to deal with :-)

GOING to confuse me? Too late... LOl Thanks again to everyone who has
worked so hard on this... this is one of the best lists I've ever been on.
I'm going to have to sit down and put all of this together but right now my
brain is a pile of pick up sticks!

Alexis

_______________________________________

[eric edgar]

Alexis,

 

This draft for Manuel Joseph Gibou, who we have determined is the same person on the shiplist going to visit his sister Mary Gibou Lima. He is born in Brava, Cape Verde Islands.

 

All people found so far in the New England area with a variation of the Gibou name are from Cape Verde.

 

Eric Edgar

--

[eric edgar]

Here is a search return for Boston passengers with a Gibou name variation.

 

 

 Niculan Giban 20 May 1893 abt 1843 Brava, Cape Verde Brava,Cys Forest Ferry 

View Record

 

 Jona Giban 20 May 1893 abt 1857 Brava, Cape Verde Brava,Cys Forest Ferry 

View Record

 

 Catharina Giban 31 Jul 1897 abt 1860 Brava, Cape Verde Brava Carlota 

View Record

 

 Thome Giban 1 May 1896 abt 1860 Brava, Cape Verde Brava C V I John E Shatford 

View Record

 

 Jose Giban 20 May 1893 abt 1862 Brava, Cape Verde Brava,Cys Forest Ferry 

View Record

 

 Thome Giban 20 May 1893 abt 1866 Brava, Cape Verde Brava,Cys Forest Ferry 

View Record

 

 Thome Giban 5 May 1897 abt 1867 Brava, Cape Verde Brara Zulmira 

View Record

 

 Maria Giban 12 Apr 1897 abt 1868 Brava, Cape Verde Brava Cni John E Stratford 

View Record

 

 Catharina Giban 15 May 1895 abt 1869 Brava, Cape Verde Brava Augustine Kobbe 

View Record

 

 Demingos Giban 20 May 1893 abt 1869 Brava, Cape Verde Brava,Cys Forest Ferry 

View Record

 

 Gandencio Giban 16 Jun 1896 abt 1872 Brava, Cape Verde Brava Carolina 

View Record

 

 

 Gandencio Giban 16 Jun 1896 abt 1872 Brava, Cape Verde Brava Carolina 

View Record

 

 Candida Jose Giban 8 Oct 1897 abt 1875 Brava, Cape Verde Brava Lulmira 

View Record

 

 Augusts Giban 31 Jul 1897 abt 1895 Brava, Cape Verde Brava Carlota

[AC]

OK… I’m getting it now… so you think that Mary Gibou is most certainly my Mary… still a bit of an assumption I think, even though I believe it will probably pan out.  I know I am one of those concrete evidence types so for me,  I need more, which I suppose I’ll get with the acquisition of the actual copies.

 

Also, how do we know he was going to visit Mary Gibou Lima?

 

Thanks for clearing it up for me.

 

Alexis

 

 

From: azo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:azo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of eric edgar

This draft for Manuel Joseph Gibou, who we have determined is the same person on the shiplist going to visit his sister Mary Gibou Lima. He is born in Brava, Cape Verde Islands.

[AC]

Sorry Eric, missed the attachment on the last e-mail! Now I know why you think it s my Mary

Alexis

 

[belle...@gmail.com]

Alexis,

Eric and I have been around a long time - me longer than Eric--in age that is, doing this research, as well as many others on the list. Believe me when both stongly agree it is the person you are looking for, it is and she is. This Mary Gibau Gonsalves and any other spelling, surname, etc., they used is something we are used to seeing. I think your original question has been answered for you and you now have lots of facts to back it up. Have fun with your continued research...you are lucky to have found her so quickly. For 10 years I have been looking for the baptism record, on one of those islands in the Azores for my grandmother, and I still have not found it and many wonderful researchers on this list have tried to help me. Found her siblings but not her. Lucky you!

"E"