Do you use a pedometer app that is free, no login, no ads, & no reporting back to the home ship?

[Arlen _G_ Holder]

Do you use a pedometer app that is free, no login, no reporting back to the
home ship, no ads (if possible), no annoying nags, etc.?

You know, it's JUST a pedometer (nothing else).
(What happens on the phone, stays on the phone.)

Googling, there are a lot to test out, so that's why I ask here first.
(I'm trying to recommend one to a friend who is dieting & exercising.)

F-Droid:
Pedometer <https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.secuso.privacyfriendlyactivitytracker/>
Pedometer <https://f-droid.org/en/packages/name.bagi.levente.pedometer/>
Pedometer <https://www.f-droid.org/en/packages/de.j4velin.pedometer/>

Top 10 Free Pedometer Apps for Android
1. Activity Tracker
2. Google Fit
3. Accupedo
4. Noom Walk
5. EasyFit Step Counter
6. Pedometer
7. Step Tracker
8. Easy Pedometer
9. Pedometer 2018
10. Zeopoxa Pedometer
<https://activitytrackerapp.com/blog/top-7-free-pedometer-apps-for-android/>

Top 8 Pedometer Apps For Android Devices
1. Moves
2. Walk With Map My Walk
3. Runtastic Pedometer
4. Accupedo
5. Noom Walk
6. Endomodo Sports Tracker PRO
7. Nike+ Running
8. Zombies, Run!
<https://beebom.com/top-8-pedometer-apps-for-android/>

10 Best Pedometer Apps for Android to Track your Walk
1. MapMyWalk
2. Runtastic Pedometer
3. Noom Walk
4. Runkeeper Free
5. Accupedo-Pro pedometer
6. Endmodo Sports Tracker
7. Nike+Running
8. Zombies Run
9. Pedometer 2.0
10. TimeWalker
<https://www.techamiable.com/apps/android-apps/10-best-app/pedometer-apps-for-android/>

10 best pedometer apps and step counter apps for Android!
1. Google Fit
2. Leap Fitness Step Counter & Pedometer
3. MyFitnessPal
4. Pedometer
5. Pacer Health's Pedometer and Step Counter
6. Runkeeper
7. Runtastic Steps
8. Zombies, Run! and The Walk (2 apps)
9. (stuff that comes with a fitness band)
10. (stuff that comes with your phone)
<https://www.androidauthority.com/best-pedometer-apps-step-counter-apps-for-android-852651/>

10 Free Pedometer and Step Counter Apps for Android
1. Google Fit
2. Zombies, Run!
3. Runtastic Steps
4. Argus
5. Pedometer
6. ViewRanger
7. Fitbit
8. Pedometer, Step Counter & Weight Loss Tracker
9. Accupedo
10. Noom Walk
<https://www.maketecheasier.com/free-android-pedometer-apps/>

10 Best Pedometer Apps for Android
1. Google Fit
2. Step Counter
3. Pedometer by ITO
4. Zombies, Run!
5. Runtastic Steps
6. Runkeeper
7. Pedometer Step Counter
8. Walk with Map My Walk
9. Noom Walk Pedometer
10. Argus Calorie Counter Diet
<https://joyofandroid.com/best-pedometer-apps-for-android/>

12 Free Pedometer Apps That Are Better Than Fitbit
1. Apple Health (you know it sucks when the first is apple)
2. Google Fit (you know it sucks when the second is google)
3. Stepz
4. Accupedo
5. StepsApp Pedometer
6. Argus
7. Map My Walk
8. Walker
9. Fitbit
10. Quped
11. Unicef Kid Power
12. WinWalk
<https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/best-free-pedometer-apps/>

The best Android apps for counting steps
1. Google Fit
2. Pacer Pedometer
3. Runkeeper
4. Walk with Map My Walk
<https://www.cnet.com/how-to/the-best-android-apps-for-counting-steps/>

As usual, when the field is this polluted, it's very hard to tell which
apps consistently comes out on top for doing one thing and one thing only.

--
Each thread to this ng should add value with the OP plus adult answers.

[Tim+]

Arlen _G_ Holder <_arlen....@halder.edu> wrote:
> Do you use a pedometer app that is free, no login, no reporting back to the
> home ship, no ads (if possible), no annoying nags, etc.?
>
> You know, it's JUST a pedometer (nothing else).
> (What happens on the phone, stays on the phone.)
>
> Googling, there are a lot to test out, so that's why I ask here first.
> (I'm trying to recommend one to a friend who is dieting & exercising.)
>

<massive snip>

You make no mention of the fact that if your phone doesn’t have a built in
fitness app/step counter it’s probably because it doesn’t have the low
power consumption chips that preserve your battery. I suspect that all apps
for phones without the appropriate chipset will drain the battery rather
more quickly that most users would like.

I could be wrong but that was certainly the case when I had an iPhone 4s
which didn’t have the appropriate chipset.

Stand alone pedometers are dirt cheap and won’t flatten your phone battery.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

[Arlen _G_ Holder]

On 12 Nov 2019 05:34:13 GMT, Tim+ wrote:

> You make no mention of the fact that if your phone doesn¢t have a built in
> fitness app/step counter it¢s probably because it doesn¢t have the low
> power consumption chips that preserve your battery. I suspect that all apps
> for phones without the appropriate chipset will drain the battery rather
> more quickly that most users would like.
>
> I could be wrong but that was certainly the case when I had an iPhone 4s
> which didn¢t have the appropriate chipset.
>
> Stand alone pedometers are dirt cheap and won¢t flatten your phone battery.

Hi Tim+
This isn't actually for me, but the person is using the same phone as I
have, as it was a gift from me to them two years ago when I bought a bunch
of these $130 LG Stylo 3 Plus phones at Costco on sale.

A standalone pedometer is patently out of the question.
o The whole reason for a smart phone is that it does stuff.

More so, if they wanted a standalone pedometer, I wouldn't have asked the
question of the Android group, just as if they wanted a standalone Garmon
nuvi, I wouldn't ask a GPS question, or just as if they wanted to measure
angles using a digital scale, I wouldn't ask about such apps on Android.

If they wanted to use a landline, I wouldn't ask the question here either.
o The whole point of a smartphone is NOT to have a separate accessory!

However, your point is valid that I didn't mention whether the $130 LG
Stylo 3 Plus has "the appropriate chipset" since I didn't even know it was
a consideration, but now I do, which I appreciate, as EVERY post in a
Usenet thread should ADD value to share with the group.

How can we tell?
I don't know.

I do notice some apps mention this, for example:
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.j4velin.pedometer>
"Lightweight pedometer app using the hardware step-sensor for minimal
battery consumption.
This app is designed to be running all the time without having any impact
on your battery life! It uses the hardware step detection sensor of devices
like the Nexus 5, which is already running even when not using any
pedometer app. Therefore the app does not consume any additional battery
drain. Unlike other pedometer apps, this app does not track your movement
or your location so it doesn't need to turn on your GPS sensor (again: no
impact on your battery)."

Where that app went to great lengths to say the battery impact is zero.
o Unfortunately, the app I settled on, at the moment, doesn't say anything
about the "battery usage" or the "appropriate chipset":
<https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.secuso.privacyfriendlyactivitytracker/>
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.secuso.privacyfriendlyactivitytracker>

But many of the pedometer apps DO say they use the "built-in" sensor:
"This pedometer uses the built-in sensor to count your steps. No GPS
tracking, so it can greatly save battery."
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=pedometer.stepcounter.calorieburner.pedometerforwalking>

"This step counter uses the built-in sensor to count your steps. No GPS
tracking, so it barely consumes battery power."
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=pedometer.steptracker.calorieburner.stepcounter>

So the question that you bring up is whether the $130 LG Stylo 3 Plus has
the "appropriate chipset" you speak of.

Let me google a bit for what sensor is needed, presumably an accelerometer:
<https://www.gsmarena.com/lg_stylo_3_plus-8694.php>
o fingerprint,
o accelerometer,
o gyro,
o proximity,
o compass
<https://www.gsmarena.com/glossary.php3?term=sensors>

<https://www.lg.com/us/cell-phones/lg-TP450-stylo-3-plus>
o Rear Key with Fingerprint Sensor
o Magnetometer, Compass embedded in phone,
o Gyroscope, Detects rotation of phone to enhance gaming experience
o Accelerometer Control games by turning and tilting

Are those the "appropriate chipsets"?
I don't know.
What do you think?

If they're not the "appropriate chipsets", isn't the problem the same as
anything else, where, for example, if you're watching video constantly,
you'll be using display battery power, and if you're tracking with GPS
constantly, you'll be using the GPS battery power, etc.

You may as well say "get a separate video player".
You may as well say "get a separate Magellan GPS receiver".

In summary, your post was GREAT insight, where I'd simply like to ask you
for details. Does this phone have what you call the "appropriate chipset"
or not, and, even if it didn't, battery life is dependent on what you do
with the device.

To claim a separate pedometer is better defeats the point of a smartphone
(even if that statement is patently true, which I don't doubt at all).

BTW, I'll post it separately, by initial tests are being run on this:
<https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.secuso.privacyfriendlyactivitytracker/>
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.secuso.privacyfriendlyactivitytracker>
(mainly because it's KISS and it's privacy based, or so they say).

Here is the description blurb from those pages...

What makes Privacy Friendly Pedometer different from other pedometers?

1. Minimal amount of permissions:
o Run at startup: This permission is required to restart the step counting
when your phone boots.
o prevent phone from sleeping: On some devices the processor falls asleep
and prevents counting steps. With this permission the app can keep the
processor awake while counting steps.

Most of Pedometer Apps in the Google Play Store require additional
permissions. E.g. accessing the network or Internet which is mostly used to
display advertisement. Some apps have access to GPS or telephony data.

2. No advertisement.
Many other free apps in the Google Play Store dazzle annoying advertising
and also shortens battery life.
--
Each post to Usnet should ADD technical value to the topic being discussed.

[Arlen _G_ Holder]

On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 06:08:08 -0000 (UTC), Arlen _G_ Holder wrote:

> Are those the "appropriate chipsets"?
> I don't know.
> What do you think?

I just ran a test, where it "seems" the LG Stylo utilities are reporting a
"discrete step sensor", but maybe someone who knows more can help interpret
the data below that Tim+ kindly brought up to share at our potluck?

Bearing in mind that the whole point of a smartphone is NOT to need a
separate accessory, a quick search shows the "step sensor detector" is
available in software inside of Android (if not in hardware):
<https://i.postimg.cc/C5KkxWY9/pedometer03.jpg>

<https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/sensors/sensors_motion>
o The gravity, linear acceleration, rotation vector, significant motion,
step counter, and step detector sensors are either hardware-based or
software-based.
o The accelerometer and gyroscope sensors are always hardware-based.

Use the step counter sensor
The step counter sensor provides the number of steps taken by the user
since the last reboot while the sensor was activated. The step counter has
more latency (up to 10 seconds) but more accuracy than the step detector
sensor.

Looking at my phone itself, the Sensors Multitool seems to indicate that my
$130 LG Stylo 3 Plus has a ton of sensors (whether hardware or software)
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.wered.sensorsmultitool>

These are the "sensors" reported by that tool:
<https://i.postimg.cc/5tFPxQp8/pedometer01.jpg>
o Battery
o GPS
o WiFi
o Accelerometer
o Magnetic
o Gyroscope
o Proximity
o Light
o Gravity
o Linear Acceleration
o Rotation Vector
o Step Counter
o Orientation

When I click on "Step Counter", the free tool reports:
o LGE Step Counter Sensor (0.18mA)
<https://i.postimg.cc/KYnnqPJp/pedometer02.jpg>

Do these screenshots I just took for you explain what you asked?

--
Each post to Usenet should add value and details as needed.

[Tim+]

Arlen _G_ Holder <_arlen....@halder.edu> wrote:

Well I can’t answer that specific point but I would just say that fitness
monitoring and step counting is a selling point for many phones. If a
phone could do it without any downside, then I think you would find an
inbuilt step counting app and not need to install a third party app to do.
The very fact that there *isn’t* an app there already suggests to me that
the manufacturers are quite aware of the battery issues of using their
accelerometers 24/7.

I think you’ll just have to conduct your own trial.

[Martin Brown]

It does impact a little on battery life but to nothing like the same
extent as poor mobile signal. On my Moto G4 it is about 7 days between
charges if I am in a good signal area and 3 days in my usual location.
The pedometer app might take at most half a day off the working life of
the battery if you walk a lot but it's hard to tell since the phone
usage isn't uniform. Some weeks it gets hammered and others are quiet.

It currently shows as ~1% usage since last charge on my mobile phone.
Phone standby, calls and Google data services being the top users.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[Arlen _G_ Holder]

On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 11:13:44 +0000, Martin Brown wrote:

>>> When I click on "Step Counter", the free tool reports:
>>> o LGE Step Counter Sensor (0.18mA)
>>> <https://i.postimg.cc/KYnnqPJp/pedometer02.jpg>
>>>
>>> Do these screenshots I just took for you explain what you asked?
>>
>> Well I can¡¦t answer that specific point but I would just say that fitness
>> monitoring and step counting is a selling point for many phones. If a
>> phone could do it without any downside, then I think you would find an
>> inbuilt step counting app and not need to install a third party app to do.
>> The very fact that there *isn¡¦t* an app there already suggests to me that
>> the manufacturers are quite aware of the battery issues of using their
>> accelerometers 24/7.
>>
>> I think you¡¦ll just have to conduct your own trial.
>
> It does impact a little on battery life but to nothing like the same
> extent as poor mobile signal. On my Moto G4 it is about 7 days between
> charges if I am in a good signal area and 3 days in my usual location.
> The pedometer app might take at most half a day off the working life of
> the battery if you walk a lot but it's hard to tell since the phone
> usage isn't uniform. Some weeks it gets hammered and others are quiet.
>
> It currently shows as ~1% usage since last charge on my mobile phone.
> Phone standby, calls and Google data services being the top users.

I think it's wonderful that you both shared items of useful value!
o Particularly since I had zero exposure to pedometers until yesterday.

Hence I thank Tim+ & Martin Brown for adding value to the publish shared
conversation by bringing up the point of "battery life" when it comes to
choosing & using a "pedometer" app on a smart phone, particularly with
respect to the fact that some phones have built-in step sensors, while
other phones extrapolate that data from other sensors.

During Thanksgiving, I'll have access to iPhones & Nexus 5 phones and a few
more LG Stylo 3 Plus phones that I gave away as gifts over the years...
o Phablet stocking stuffers: iPhone 7 versus LG Stylo 3 Plus price/performance hardware comparison
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/ls71mnkj4jk/n0FaH2e_DQAJ>

It seems the Nexus 5 has "real" pedometer hardware built in:
o Your Nexus 5 Has a Real Pedometer Built In¡XHere's How You Use It
<https://nexus5.gadgethacks.com/how-to/your-nexus-5-has-real-pedometer-built-in-heres-you-use-0151267/>
"a low-power step detector and step-counting sensor"
"The Nexus 5's pedometer runs on one of the processor's low-power cores,
and actually counts your steps."
"Utilizing a step detector sensor in addition to a step counting
sensor means the device can accomplish this task without draining
any noticeable amount of battery. The step detector uses the
accelerometer to know when a step is taken, then wakes the step
counter to initiate counting. If the step detector senses no
steps, the step counter isn't running."
"There's no built-in apps to fully harness its power."
"J4velin's app Pedometer (free on Google Play) was made exclusively
for the Nexus 5. Capable of running in the background all day with
no additional battery drain, it simply reads and displays the data
that's already being recorded by your step sensor."
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.j4velin.pedometer>

I hadn't realized when I first asked the question that pedometer hardware
is built into some phones, such as the Nexus 5:
<https://www.phonearena.com/phones/Google-Nexus-5_id8148>
o Accelerometer
o Gyroscope
o Compass
o Barometer
o Step detector
o Step counter

Compare that Nexus 5 with the $130 LG Stylo 3 Plus specs:
<https://www.phonearena.com/phones/LG-Stylo-3-Plus_id10534>
o Accelerometer
o Gyroscope
o Compass

That means most of this sensing must be done in software:
<https://i.postimg.cc/KYnnqPJp/pedometer02.jpg>

o Battery
o GPS
o WiFi
o Accelerometer
o Magnetic
o Gyroscope
o Proximity
o Light
o Gravity
o Linear Acceleration
o Rotation Vector
o Step Counter
o Orientation

One of the beauties of the $130 LG Stylo 3 Plus is that the battery lasts
forever, and, even so, you can easily pack a few with you since it takes
all of a few seconds to replace the battery.

In summary, in terms of hardware & battery life, there are some phones with
built-in step detectors & step counters (e.g., Nexus 5) while others
extrapolate that data (LG Stylo 3 Plus). I have access to both.

Hence, I will continue to seek the best pedometer apps with the following
first pass (it will likely change as I learn more) goodies list:
o Must be free
o Should be ad free
o Must never require a login or the Internet (for privacy)
o Must not require GPS (although it could be an option)
o Should make efficient use of the battery (if possible)
o What else?

To share, I'll post my install report for this app I'm testing:
<https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.secuso.privacyfriendlyactivitytracker/>
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.secuso.privacyfriendlyactivitytracker>

--
When Usenet works, adults team up to combine useful nuggets of added value.

[MissRiaElaine]

On 12/11/2019 00:42, Arlen _G_ Holder wrote:
> Do you use a pedometer app that is free, no login, no reporting back to the
> home ship, no ads (if possible), no annoying nags, etc.?

Not an app, but I have a dedicated pedometer that hangs on a chain
around my neck. 25 quid from John Lewis as I recall, I've had it a few
years now.


--
Ria in Aberdeen

[Send address is invalid, use sipsoup at gmail dot com to reply direct]

[Arlen _G_ Holder]

On Wed, 13 Nov 2019 00:21:08 +0000, MissRiaElaine wrote:

> Not an app, but I have a dedicated pedometer that hangs on a chain
> around my neck. 25 quid from John Lewis as I recall, I've had it a few
> years now.

Thanks for that information as we want to learn as much as we can from each
other, which is the whole point of the Usenet potluck.

It seems to me to be pretty simple of a device, which is why I feel a phone
"should" be adequate as a pedometer (all it has to do is count steps).

With the help of the others on the Usenet team, we've determined that there
are phones that have both hardware step sensors & step counters (such as
the Nexus 5) and phones that extrapolate that data (presumably from the
accelerometer, such as the LG Stylo 3 Plus):
<https://i.postimg.cc/KYnnqPJp/pedometer02.jpg>

In addition, phones can extrapolate that data from simple GPS tracks, but
it was brought up by the Usenet team that this may use additional battery
resources, whereas the accelerometer-based step counters would use vastly
less power, while the hardware step counters apparently use almost nothing
by way of battery power.

Since every Usenet post should add value, here's my initial writeup to
share with the Usenet team of the installation experience as I began to
test the Android pedometers, where my APK testing approach is to (a) read
the reviews, (b) choose an app in the list, (c) install and test, (d)
reject & delete the app at the first occurrence of an annoyance, and then
(e) install the next app in the list until (f) a suitable app remains.

*FIRST TEST of free, ad free, privacy related Android pedometer apps*
o LG Stylo 3 Plus, 8 cores, 2GB RAM, 32GB storage, 64GB SD, Android 7.0
<https://www.gadgetsnow.com/compare-mobile-phones/LG-Stylo-3-Plus-vs-Apple-iPhone-7-Plus>

I noticed F-Droid had 3 pedometer apps, so I decided to try them first.
1. Pedometer <https://f-droid.org/en/packages/name.bagi.levente.pedometer/>
2. Pedometer <https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.secuso.privacyfriendlyactivitytracker/>
3. Pedometer Nexus 5 <https://f-droid.org/en/packages/de.j4velin.pedometer/>

On Windows, I downloaded that first tiny 50kb pedometer APK.
o name.bagi.levente.pedometer_6.apk
<https://f-droid.org/en/packages/name.bagi.levente.pedometer/>
Hoping that it would be KISS, and just be a pedometer & nothing else.

From Windows, I slid that APK to the sdcard on Android, over USB & MTP.
On an Android file manager, I clicked on the 50kb APK to install it.
It didn't ask for any permissions (good start).
I opened the app, and, voila, it seems to work.
It's settings have a sensitivity calibrator, units, body weight, sound,
step length, (and other related stuff).
It can output Steps (default 20 inch length), pace, distance, speed,
calories, derivative, etc.
Drat. It crashed. A few times. Hmmmm.... I have almost 500 apps that work.
After that first startup, it wouldn't ever start again.
Even after rebooting the phone.
I deleted the APK.

Moving to the second pedometer app on the F-Droid list, I noticed the size
is 2MB (quite a bit larger than the 50kb app that failed), and that the app
is named "privacy friendly activity tracker", which is a good start.

As before, on Windows, I downloaded the APK from F-Droid:
o org.secuso.privacyfriendlyactivitytracker_6.apk
<https://www.f-droid.org/en/packages/org.secuso.privacyfriendlyactivitytracker/>
Although those of you with Google Accounts can apparently use Google Play:
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.secuso.privacyfriendlyactivitytracker>

I slid the APK from Windows to the Android 64GB sd card.
On Android, I clicked on the 2MB Privacy Friendly APK to install it
It installed sans asking for permissions.
A welcome screen walks you thru "privacy-friendly" settings (that's nice).
Lot of settings, even down to "motivation alerts" & "training" modes.
Nice GUI upon first inspection (graphs, distances, weeks, day, months).
No crash, so that's a good start.
I kill the app. I restart. No crash.
I reboot phone & start app. No crash.
The help says they will never serve advertisements.
And that they don't require a login, or phone home, or use the GPS.

That means this app passed the initial test criteria.
Now I have to test it out as a pedometer.

Note that the Google Play advertisement says it displays ads, so maybe the
F-Droid version is different (this is sometimes the case with F-Droid being
better than Google Play for the same apps).

The good news is that this privacy friendly pedometer APK shows up in four
of the seven reviews I initially posted in the opening post:
o #3 here: <https://joyofandroid.com/best-pedometer-apps-for-android/>
o #4 here: <https://www.androidauthority.com/best-pedometer-apps-step-counter-apps-for-android-852651/>
o #5 here: <https://www.maketecheasier.com/free-android-pedometer-apps/>
o #6 here: <https://activitytrackerapp.com/blog/top-7-free-pedometer-apps-for-android/>

Since privacy is critical for any app ever to be used on a phone,
this is the "privacy disclosure" regarding "permissions"
o Overview
"This app can count your steps in background, provides you an overview
about your walked steps and allows you to define custom walking modes and
notifications if the achievement of your daily step goal is in danger" The
step counter counts your daily steps in background and can be disabled in
the settings."
o Notification, Permanent Notification
"The permanent notification is necessary to keep the step counter alive in
background. The content of the notification can be chosen in the settings.
You can disable all notifications in system preferences."
o Motivation alert
"The app can show you motivation alerts if the achievement of your daily
step goal is in danger. You can define the criterion, the time of day, and
the notification texts."
o Privacy Info
"The permissions used by Privacy Friendly Pedometer can not be managed by
the user in any Android version."
o Permission: Receive Boot Completed
"is used to start the step counter and set the notifications at boot time.
If the permission is not granted, you have to start the app manually once
after boot to activate the app."
o Permission: Wake Lock
"is used to keep the CPU awake to count the steps in background."

Since the Google Play version says it displays ads, let's hope the ads stay
away forever, which often is the case with F-Droid apps that are ALSO on
Google Play (e.g., OSMANd+ versus OSMAnd~, and FTP Server (Free), & FTP
Server, etc.)
o Together, let's clarify the difference between OSMAnd, OSMAnd+ & OSMAnd~
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/43g_mwUy964/4jjBGXfXAgAJ>

o F-Droid FTP Server (Free) versus FTP Server (Demo) on Google Play:
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/DT2UtsPNheg/8j7CBVVLBAAJ>

More to come...
--
The beauty of Usenet is when adults purposefully share useful information.

[David Higton]

In message <qqh6a2$6p4$1...@news.mixmin.net>

Arlen _G_ Holder <_arlen....@halder.edu> wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Nov 2019 00:21:08 +0000, MissRiaElaine wrote:
>
> > Not an app, but I have a dedicated pedometer that hangs on a chain
> > around my neck. 25 quid from John Lewis as I recall, I've had it a few
> > years now.
>
> Thanks for that information as we want to learn as much as we can from
> each other, which is the whole point of the Usenet potluck.
>
> It seems to me to be pretty simple of a device, which is why I feel a
> phone "should" be adequate as a pedometer (all it has to do is count
> steps).

Not nearly as simple as that, Arlen, because the movements and
accelerations of any part of the body where the device is worn are really
quite difficult to decode as steps. It's easy to double count them, and
it's easy to count other movements while you're standing still, e.g. if
taking part in an animated conversation. The best that has been achieved
so far with a phone is an estimate, which is often out by over 10%.

The best part of the body whose movements to decode are the ankles, but
you probabaly don't want to mount your phone there, and many people don't
like to strap dedicated step counters there in case they are mistaken for
tags fitted to petty criminals.

David

[nospam]

In article <d942781358.DaveMeUK@BeagleBoard-xM>, David Higton

<da...@davehigton.me.uk> wrote:

> > It seems to me to be pretty simple of a device, which is why I feel a
> > phone "should" be adequate as a pedometer (all it has to do is count
> > steps).
>
> Not nearly as simple as that, Arlen, because the movements and
> accelerations of any part of the body where the device is worn are really
> quite difficult to decode as steps. It's easy to double count them, and
> it's easy to count other movements while you're standing still, e.g. if
> taking part in an animated conversation. The best that has been achieved
> so far with a phone is an estimate, which is often out by over 10%.

that's why they use gps and stride length, which is very accurate.

[Libor Striz]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> Wrote in message:

> that's why they use gps and stride length, which is very accurate.

Well, odometers based on software pedometers,
using hardware accelerometers of a smartphone
are much more precise than GPS based odometers.

I suppose their pedomeders may involve FFT, possibly in form of HW
supported DCT, implemented in JPG, MPG, XviD, H264
encoding.

They may search for regular frequency patterns with big enough
amplitude and frequency of usual pace range.

As GPS line of motion is far from a straight line due fluctuations
of GPS position. Filtering of recorded track somewhat helps,
but strong filtering affects the real turns of non straight paths.

--
Poutnik ( the Wanderer )

[nospam]

In article <qqoeo2$piv$1...@dont-email.me>, Libor Striz

<poutnik4R...@gmailCAPITALS.com.INVALID> wrote:

>
> > that's why they use gps and stride length, which is very accurate.
>
> Well, odometers based on software pedometers,
> using hardware accelerometers of a smartphone
> are much more precise than GPS based odometers.

they aren't.

i remember using an old school pedometer clipped to my belt, and it
measured 'walking' while i was driving.

with a gps, it's trivial to determine someone in a vehicle is traveling
much too fast to be walking.

> I suppose their pedomeders may involve FFT, possibly in form of HW
> supported DCT, implemented in JPG, MPG, XviD, H264
> encoding.
>
> They may search for regular frequency patterns with big enough
> amplitude and frequency of usual pace range.

you're overcomplicating things.

> As GPS line of motion is far from a straight line due fluctuations
> of GPS position. Filtering of recorded track somewhat helps,
> but strong filtering affects the real turns of non straight paths.

minor fluctuations do not affect distance walked.

the gps is *very* accurate. i can see *exactly* where i cross the
street, for example.

[Libor Striz]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> Wrote in message:

> they aren't.i remember using an old school pedometer clipped to my belt, and itmeasured 'walking' while i was driving.

When I say walking, I mean walking.
GPS based passed distance is easily 1.5-2 times as much as map
distance, if not filtered.

>with a gps, it's trivial to determine someone in a vehicle is travelingmuch too fast to be walking.

Sure, but it is not the same as determining the passed distance.

> you're overcomplicating things.

It is not complicated. Or, is it ?
It is a piece of cake for current smartphones.

> the gps is *very* accurate. i can see *exactly* where i cross thestreet, for example.

Again, you mix 2 different things.

Record your unfiltered foot path,
determine the distance from the record and compare it with the map.

The GPS zigzag path will have the distance significantly longer
than should be. Unless the recording interval is too long, what
decreases this error,but increases the error of the path
oversmoothing.

Similarly, GPG zigzag altitude profile would report significantly
bigger cumulative ascend, than should be, based on kartigraphic
data,
or barometer based altimeter.

I wish I had a smartphone with a barometer, as I make a lot of
outdoor hiking and cycling activities.

[nospam]

In article <qqov4n$a6t$1...@dont-email.me>, Libor Striz

<poutnik4R...@gmailCAPITALS.com.INVALID> wrote:

> > they aren't.i remember using an old school pedometer clipped to my belt,
> > and itmeasured 'walking' while i was driving.
>
> When I say walking, I mean walking.

exactly.

a pedometer cannot tell that up/down motion is walking or a bumpy road
while driving.

a gps makes it trivial to determine the difference.

> GPS based passed distance is easily 1.5-2 times as much as map
> distance, if not filtered.

nope. gps distance is exactly what was traveled.

> >with a gps, it's trivial to determine someone in a vehicle is travelingmuch
> >too fast to be walking.
>
> Sure, but it is not the same as determining the passed distance.

yes it is.

> > you're overcomplicating things.
>
> It is not complicated. Or, is it ?
> It is a piece of cake for current smartphones.

it's not complicated at all.

i don't know why you brought up fft, dct or various media encoding
formats, which are not at all relevant.

> > the gps is *very* accurate. i can see *exactly* where i cross thestreet,
> > for example.
>
> Again, you mix 2 different things.

nope.

> Record your unfiltered foot path,
> determine the distance from the record and compare it with the map.
>
> The GPS zigzag path will have the distance significantly longer
> than should be. Unless the recording interval is too long, what
> decreases this error,but increases the error of the path
> oversmoothing.

the gps path will be exactly what was walked, regardless of zigzag or
straight or curved or whatever path they took.

> Similarly, GPG zigzag altitude profile would report significantly
> bigger cumulative ascend, than should be, based on kartigraphic
> data,
> or barometer based altimeter.

gps can also be used for altitude, but a barometer is a better option.

> I wish I had a smartphone with a barometer, as I make a lot of
> outdoor hiking and cycling activities.

quite a few have that.

[Libor Striz]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> Wrote in message:

> gps distance is exactly what was traveled.

You do not know much about GPS then.
Try to record position every second of your hiking
and you will see how big your mistake is.

> i don't know why you brought up fft, dct or various media encodingformats,which are not at all relevant.

FT is the easiest way to get frequency patterns from data timeline.


> the gps path will be exactly what was walked, regardless of zigzag orstraight or curved or whatever path they took.

> gps can also be used for altitude, but a barometer is a better
option.

Are you aware only one of above statements can be true ? :-)

GPS position and altitude share the same kind of errors.

Barometer is better altimeter than GPS altimeter
if and only if GPS position and altitude are errorneous.
As barometers have their own issues GPS does not have.

[nospam]

In article <qqpabm$j5p$1...@dont-email.me>, Libor Striz

<poutnik4R...@gmailCAPITALS.com.INVALID> wrote:

>
> > gps distance is exactly what was traveled.
>
> You do not know much about GPS then.
> Try to record position every second of your hiking
> and you will see how big your mistake is.

i do that every day, and the 'mistake' is very small, as in completely
insignificant.

i have numerous tracklogs of walks, runs and various other activities,
and it's exactly what was traveled, down to where i cross the street.
in many cases, i can see where i am within a building, but that depends
on the building and other factors.

on occasion, there might be a glitch, but that's very rare.

> > i don't know why you brought up fft, dct or various media
> > encodingformats,which are not at all relevant.
>
> FT is the easiest way to get frequency patterns from data timeline.

an fft is not needed.

> > the gps path will be exactly what was walked, regardless of zigzag
> > orstraight or curved or whatever path they took.
>
> > gps can also be used for altitude, but a barometer is a better
> option.
>
> Are you aware only one of above statements can be true ? :-)

both can be and are true.

> GPS position and altitude share the same kind of errors.

4 satellites are required for altitude. there are usually more, making
the error very small.

> Barometer is better altimeter than GPS altimeter

usually, yes, but like everything, there are exceptions.

a barometer will not work inside an airplane cabin, which is
pressurized to 6000-8000 feet.

> if and only if GPS position and altitude are errorneous.
> As barometers have their own issues GPS does not have.

nothing is perfect.

[Libor Striz]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> Wrote in message:

> i do that every day, and the 'mistake' is very small, as in completelyinsignificant.

Only if 10-20% is insignificant.

Developers of GPS outdoor applications
and GPS/GPX related web services
pay a lot of attention for GPS log 3D filtering
to get acceptable values of passed distances and altitude ascends.
As users are very sensitive to see unreal values.

E.g. unfiltered GPS records tell
you climbed up typically twice as much altitude
than you really did.

It looks you are a lucky man and your device gives you by some
magic correct values.

> i have numerous tracklogs of walks, runs and various other activities,and it's exactly what was traveled, down to where i cross the street.in many cases, i can see where i am within a building, but that dependson the building and other factors.on occasion, there might be a glitch, but that's very rare.

Where you are and what distance you reportedly passed are 2
different things.

In buildings, it is probably matter of more general Location
service, using GPS, cell towers, WiFi and BT.

> an fft is not needed.

But useful.

> both can be and are true.

Show then why they are true. :-)

If GPS distance is perfect
then GPS position must be perfect
then GPS altitude must be perfect
then GPS altitude must be generally better then barometer altitude,
as GPS has no drifting.
Why then it is not better?

> 4 satellites are required for altitude. there are usually more, makingthe error very small.

Only if you used any kind of dGPS or similar technology, which are
not applicable to ordinary smartphones.

1 frequency GPS (dual frequency devices are still rare and
their support is questioned )
has typical position error 2-7 m,
(most of it caused by stratospheric signal delays.)
what is more than 1s recording step for walking .

The error is not random, but has significant short term drift,
what cannot be distinguished from real path deviations..

The correct passed distance can be obtained just by chance with a
priori unknown filtering strength,
when positive error of residual noise
is cancelled by the equal but negative error of real path
oversmoothing.

The correct distance can still be achieved,
if GPS data are omitted and distance is taken from the navigation
routing data.

>> Barometer is better altimeter than GPS altimeter

> usually, yes, but like everything, there are exceptions.a barometer will not work inside an airplane cabin, which ispressurized to 6000-8000 feet.

I had in mind more natural examples,
like temperature and pressure changes, leading to significant
drifts of barometer based altitude.

E.g, typical barometer altitude drift when a warm front is
approaching is about + 20m/hour. Similar errors may occur, if
local vertical temperature profile differs from the place where
barometer was calibrated.

But these drifts are less evil than the noisy GPS 3D position.

> nothing is perfect.

But your GPS distance records. :-)

[nospam]

In article <qqph7b$ti4$1...@dont-email.me>, Libor Striz

<poutnik4R...@gmailCAPITALS.com.INVALID> wrote:

>
> > i do that every day, and the 'mistake' is very small, as in
> > completelyinsignificant.
>
> Only if 10-20% is insignificant.

i don't see anywhere near that error.

> Developers of GPS outdoor applications
> and GPS/GPX related web services
> pay a lot of attention for GPS log 3D filtering
> to get acceptable values of passed distances and altitude ascends.
> As users are very sensitive to see unreal values.

not all developers work at that level. most do not.

> E.g. unfiltered GPS records tell
> you climbed up typically twice as much altitude
> than you really did.

don't use unfiltered gps records.

> It looks you are a lucky man and your device gives you by some
> magic correct values.

it's not luck to choose a device that isn't junk.

> > i have numerous tracklogs of walks, runs and various other activities,and
> > it's exactly what was traveled, down to where i cross the street.in many
> > cases, i can see where i am within a building, but that dependson the
> > building and other factors.on occasion, there might be a glitch, but that's
> > very rare.
>
> Where you are and what distance you reportedly passed are 2
> different things.

yep. nobody said otherwise.

> In buildings, it is probably matter of more general Location
> service, using GPS, cell towers, WiFi and BT.

all of those are used, both inside and outside buildings, but not
necessarily all at the same time.

numerous airports, museums, sports arenas and shopping centres are
already mapped using wifi & bt, so there's little need to bother with
gps and that radio can be shut off to save battery. however, buildings
that aren't mapped may need to use gps.

tl;dr there are many factors involved.

> > an fft is not needed.
>
> But useful.

at the lowest level, which isn't needed by most app developers and
certainly not users. those designing gps hardware have different needs.

> > both can be and are true.
>
> Show then why they are true. :-)
>
> If GPS distance is perfect
> then GPS position must be perfect
> then GPS altitude must be perfect
> then GPS altitude must be generally better then barometer altitude,
> as GPS has no drifting.
> Why then it is not better?

a lot of assumptions, namely that things must be perfect.

> > 4 satellites are required for altitude. there are usually more, makingthe
> > error very small.
>
> Only if you used any kind of dGPS or similar technology, which are
> not applicable to ordinary smartphones.

yes they are.

<https://medium.com/@sjbarbeau/dual-frequency-gnss-on-android-devices-15
2b8826e1c>
Android Nougat 7.0 brought official support for multiple GNSS
constellations beyond U.S. GPS (including GLONASS, QZSS, BeiDou,
and Galileo), as well as the ability to collect and process raw
pseudorange measurements and navigation messages within an
Android app.

iphones are similar, plus iphone 11 (all models) also support uwb,
which is capable down to 1cm accuracy. however, that technology is
still very new and its potential untapped.

[Libor Striz]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> Wrote in message:

> > Only if 10-20% is insignificant.

> i don't see anywhere near that error.

Than you do not use standard GNSS technology.

> don't use unfiltered gps records.

I do not.

The point is, there is no way to a priori know,
what filtering strength will provide proper output,
either for the distance either for ascend.

Better developers do care.

> it's not luck to choose a device that isn't junk.

It is not due junk devices but due used GNSS technology.


> at the lowest level, which isn't needed by most app developers andcertainly not users. those designing gps hardware have different needs.

You mix GNSS and accelerometers.

> a lot of assumptions, namely that things must be perfect.

Yes, but they are not mine.
Said by other words, if your GNSS is so good,
the barometer altimeter cannot be better.



> yes they are. <https://medium.com/@sjbarbeau/dual-frequency-gnss-on-android-devices-152b8826e1c> Android Nougat 7.0 brought official support for multiple GNSS constellations beyond U.S. GPS (including GLONASS, QZSS, BeiDou, and Galileo), as well as the ability to collect and process raw pseudorange measurements and navigation messages within an Android app.

This is old news.
My phone has them.
But it does not bring substantial precision increase by itself.

> iphones are similar, plus iphone 11 (all models) also support uwb,which is capable down to 1cm accuracy. however, that technology isstill very new and its potential untapped.

Capable, but UWB is general technology, not specific for GNSS.

[nospam]

In article <qqqntk$v3p$1...@dont-email.me>, Libor Striz

<poutnik4R...@gmailCAPITALS.com.INVALID> wrote:

> > > Only if 10-20% is insignificant.
>
> > i don't see anywhere near that error.
>
> Than you do not use standard GNSS technology.

yes i do.

i logged a walk yesterday, which had a few turns at the start and
numerous ones at the end, with the bulk of the route being straight.

the phone said 0.9 miles and google maps said 0.9 miles.

where is this 10-20% error i'm supposed to be seeing?

>
> > it's not luck to choose a device that isn't junk.
>
> It is not due junk devices but due used GNSS technology.

what else can it be, given that i don't see any of the errors you claim
should be happening.

> You mix GNSS and accelerometers.

absolutely, because *both* are required for maximum accuracy. they
complement each other and reduce overall errors.

and actually, it's not only those two. other methods can also be used.

[Libor Striz]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> Wrote in message:r

> .yes i do.i logged a walk yesterday, which had a few turns at the start andnumerous ones at the end, with the bulk of the route being straight. the phone said 0.9 miles and google maps said 0.9 miles. where is this 10-20% error i'm supposed to be seeing?

0.9 means 0.85 .. 0.95.
If 0.85 is taken as 100%, 0.95 is 112 %

You mix GNSS and accelerometers.absolutely, because *both* are
required for maximum accuracy. theycomplement each other and
reduce overall errors.and actually, it's not only those two.

other methods can also be used.

It is very unusual for applications to combine GNSS and pedometer data.

[nospam]

In article <qqrpdg$b80$1...@dont-email.me>, Libor Striz

<poutnik4R...@gmailCAPITALS.com.INVALID> wrote:

> > .yes i do.i logged a walk yesterday, which had a few turns at the start
> > andnumerous ones at the end, with the bulk of the route being straight. the
> > phone said 0.9 miles and google maps said 0.9 miles. where is this 10-20%
> > error i'm supposed to be seeing?
>
> 0.9 means 0.85 .. 0.95.
> If 0.85 is taken as 100%, 0.95 is 112 %

actually, 0.9 can be 0.85..0.94, and 1.0 can be 0.95..1.04.

the phone reported 0.89 miles, but i rounded off to 0.9 because google
only had 1 decimal place.

thus, the *maximum* error would be 0.05 (0.94-0.89), or about 5.6% of
the distance. when multiple trips are averaged, the error will be much
less.

not that it matters, since 0.05 mile is 264 feet, which is completely
insignificant on a roughly 1 mile walk.

> You mix GNSS and accelerometers.absolutely, because *both* are
> required for maximum accuracy. theycomplement each other and
> reduce overall errors.and actually, it's not only those two.
> other methods can also be used.
>
> It is very unusual for applications to combine GNSS and pedometer data.

it's not unusual at all.

in fact, it's standard for all ios devices regardless of what apps are
used, and with roughly 1 billion devices in active use, it's the norm,
not the exception. app developers do not need to do *anything* extra
for it either. they also can use cellular, wifi, bluetooth and/or uwb,
in addition to gps and accelerometer data, depending on the situation
and accuracy desired.

some android devices can do it too, but that's harder to quantify since
that functionality is not guaranteed in every case and not necessarily
as accurate.

[Libor Striz]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> Wrote in message:

> actually, 0.9 can be 0.85..0.94, and 1.0 can be 0.95..1.04.

actually, 0.9 can be 0.85..0.94999..., and 1.0 can be
0.95..1.04999....
Note that in scientific world, the ending 5 is often rounded
to the even value ( 0.85-> 0.8, 0.95->1.0) to avoid rounding bias.

> 0.05 mile is 264 feet, which is completelyinsignificant on a roughly 1 mile walk.

It depends. But it is not definitely as precise as you originally
presented.

What is important to distinguish
is GNSS based distance accuracy and application distance accuracy,
that can be taken from data not related to GNSS path evaluation.


Most GNSS aware applications or GNSS utilities can tell the GNSS
location error. What value applications on your device show ? And
I do not mean the static position averaging, that is not
applicable for moving position.

Have you tried to evaluate data from GPX logs, as most of outdoor
users do ?
And have you tried to compare them to saved GPX of the prepared
route to follow ?

For mostly straight paths as streets and roads, it is easy to get
almost correct distances for GNSS, if filtered enough.

If it is winding offroad path in terrain full of bushes, not so much.

If terrain is challenging, pedometers fail, as steps do not have
usual length.
So does fail GNSS filtration, filtering both GNSS noise and track
real deviations.
The same for altitudes.

[Arlen Holder]

On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 16:08:09 -0000 (UTC), Arlen _G_ Holder wrote:

> To share, I'll post my install report for this app I'm testing:
> <https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.secuso.privacyfriendlyactivitytracker/>
> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.secuso.privacyfriendlyactivitytracker>

UPDATE:
<https://i.postimg.cc/vZr3Tfzm/pedometer01.jpg>

As a good Usenet potluck citizen, I always try to update the Q&A threads so
that everyone benefits from all the purposefully helpful posts from adults.

On the LG Stylo 3 Plus, the "privacy friendly activity tracker" pedometer
is working just fine where the F-Droid version has no ads whatsoever.
<https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.secuso.privacyfriendlyactivitytracker/>
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.secuso.privacyfriendlyactivitytracker>

While I read the side discussion about "accuracy", let's face it, accuracy
isn't what this is about since it's merely a step tracker that needs only
be within 10% or so of reality to do the job of basic activity tracking.
<https://i.postimg.cc/Cxg9cFrz/pedometer02.jpg>

If a simple step counter is off by 10%, it doesn't really matter all that
much when we're talking a goal of at least 10,000 steps a day, every day.
<https://i.postimg.cc/rppnHz1F/pedometer03.jpg>

My general rule in testing software is that the first program that does the
job kills the rest of the tests; so I likely won't be testing any of the
other activity trackers for this thread, unless there's a need that comes
up later which is missing from this current privacy friendly activity
tracker.

--
Usenet is where adults share publicly their knowledge and advice for all to
benefit from their efforts.

[nospam]

In article <qqt4fs$lm1$1...@dont-email.me>, Libor Striz

<poutnik4R...@gmailCAPITALS.com.INVALID> wrote:

> > actually, 0.9 can be 0.85..0.94, and 1.0 can be 0.95..1.04.
>
> actually, 0.9 can be 0.85..0.94999..., and 1.0 can be
> 0.95..1.04999....

only 1 decimal place in this example. you can't add precision that's
not there.

> Note that in scientific world, the ending 5 is often rounded
> to the even value ( 0.85-> 0.8, 0.95->1.0) to avoid rounding bias.

not always.

> > 0.05 mile is 264 feet, which is completelyinsignificant on a roughly 1 mile
> > walk.
>
> It depends. But it is not definitely as precise as you originally
> presented.

yes it is.

as i said, i can see where i cross the street, and at most, it's a few
feet off.

> If terrain is challenging, pedometers fail, as steps do not have
> usual length.
> So does fail GNSS filtration, filtering both GNSS noise and track
> real deviations.
> The same for altitudes.

that's why multiple sources are used together.

[Libor Striz]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> Wrote in message:

> only 1 decimal place in this example. you can't add precision that's not there.

It was about numeric ranges, not precision.
You may know the principle of the open and close numeric intervals,
like <0.45 .. 0.55)
Note that double rounding like 0.446 > 0.45 > 0.5 should be avoided.

>> Note that in scientific world, the ending 5 is often rounded> to the even value ( 0.85-> 0.8, 0.95->1.0) to avoid rounding bias.

> not always.

Most people do not think often means always.
But in some domains, like meteorology and climatology, always.

> yes it is.as i said, i can see where i cross the street, and at most, it's a fewfeet off.

Position and distance accuracy are 2 different things.

> that's why multiple sources are used together.

I do use this,
named in Android 9 improved Google precision, reportedly including
sensors.

But without an extra position Kalman filter of LocusMap, it is not
that great.

[nospam]

In article <qquaka$di9$1...@dont-email.me>, Libor Striz

<poutnik4R...@gmailCAPITALS.com.INVALID> wrote:

>
> > only 1 decimal place in this example. you can't add precision that's not
> > there.
>
> It was about numeric ranges, not precision.

nope. it's about precision.

> You may know the principle of the open and close numeric intervals,
> like <0.45 .. 0.55)
> Note that double rounding like 0.446 > 0.45 > 0.5 should be avoided.

irrelevant.

> >> Note that in scientific world, the ending 5 is often rounded> to the even
> >> value ( 0.85-> 0.8, 0.95->1.0) to avoid rounding bias.
>
> > not always.
>
> Most people do not think often means always.
> But in some domains, like meteorology and climatology, always.

and never in other domains.

also irrelevant.

> > yes it is.as i said, i can see where i cross the street, and at most, it's
> > a fewfeet off.
>
> Position and distance accuracy are 2 different things.

yep, and both are very accurate.

> > that's why multiple sources are used together.
>
> I do use this,
> named in Android 9 improved Google precision, reportedly including
> sensors.
>
> But without an extra position Kalman filter of LocusMap, it is not
> that great.

then get something better.

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 18 Nov 2019 13:47:13 -0500, nospam wrote:

>> It was about numeric ranges, not precision.
>
> nope. it's about precision.

The app I selected is working just fine for the person I selected it for:
<https://i.postimg.cc/P5bcNBsL/pedometer04.jpg>

It does what it needs to do and the battery is not taking any visible hit:
<https://i.postimg.cc/DyRFqVMB/pedometer05.jpg>

[nospam]

In article <qqvchc$7sc$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen Holder

<arlen.geo...@is.invalid> wrote:

> The app I selected is working just fine for the person I selected it for:

people can decide for themselves what apps to use.

[Libor Striz]

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> Wrote in message:

> In article <

Your comments become funny.

[Arlen Holder]

On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 06:09:09 +0100 (GMT+01:00), Libor Striz wrote:

> Your comments become funny.

Hi Poutnik,

You and I go way back, where we're both highly educated, and we both use
GPS for lots of purposes (you, more than I, where you've helped me with
off-trail GPX editing of tracks & following tracks drawn by stylus, which I
thank you for.)
o Tutorial for saving & viewing tracks on USGS topographic maps in real time on mobile devices
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/zNKD3jyeye4/njtP-yzoAgAJ>

Given you're an adult...
o You must realize nospam proves in every post to own the brain of a child.

Moving forward, we should always keep in mind that this is a public potluck
discussion, where every post should, if possible, benefit the group
overall.

IMHO, while accuracy & repeatability are important, for a pedometer, it
would be interesting to list out the various options, given there are two
kinds of phones (in general, for this purpose), namely:
a. Phones that have dedicated hardware step & counting sensors (Nexus 5)
b. Phones that must use the accelerometer instead (e.g., LG Stylo 3 Plus).
And, then, based on your discussion with nospam, a third may be in order:
c. Phones that are set to use the GPS for step-counting calculations.

Distance isn't necessarily the goal, particularly where I live where the
terrain changes height by thousands of feet in just a two or three miles.

In addition, GPS kills the battery, where you'll note in my friend's
screenshots, the battery AFTER a 10,000 step hike is still at 96%:
<https://i.postimg.cc/DyRFqVMB/pedometer05.jpg>
Although I noted in a different morning hike a battery of 92%:
<https://i.postimg.cc/P5bcNBsL/pedometer04.jpg>
Where I don't know the initial state of charge before the hikes.

I'll have a Nexus 5 to compare with over Thanksgiving, where I might get
the chance to compare Nexus 5 to LG Stylo 3 Plus, which would be
interesting indeed (I'll also have iPhones which I have not explored at the
moment, and which I'll likely not explore unless a need is felt.)

I don't know the accuracy & repeatability (nor does it seem to matter to
the person I'm helping), but it's of interest to note that LocusMap is
installed on all these Android phones, where we could test the GPS against
the pedometer if you wish to propose a test sequence - but bear in mind
this is mountainous terrain so step size will be variant (although this
person hikes roads only, so that helps things, whereas I never hike roads,
and I never stay on the trail).

One question I'd like to ask you, publicly, so we all benefit, is what you
think of this app which I've chosen for the simplest of reasons:
a. It seems to work well sans use of battery power (i.e., functionality)
b. It's free and completely advertisement free (i.e., utility)
c. It has no way (it says) of getting to the Internet (i.e., privacy)
<https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.secuso.privacyfriendlyactivitytracker/>
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.secuso.privacyfriendlyactivitytracker>
NOTE: The F-Droid versions of such apps are sometimes better than Google
Play in terms of lack of obnoxious things like in-app purchases & ads.

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Usenet is a public purposefully helpful sharing of knowledge around the
world where the goal is for every post to benefit the potluck overall.

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 18 Nov 2019 19:53:47 -0500, nospam wrote:

>> The app I selected is working just fine for the person I selected it for:
>
> people can decide for themselves what apps to use.

You, nospam, never miss a chance to prove you own the brain of a child.

[Arlen Holder]

UPDATE:
<https://i.postimg.cc/J0fVWCmw/pedometertest01.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/D0NcGbBH/pedometertest02.jpg>

This is likely my final update simply because of these two simple facts:
a. We tried a wrist-bound pedometer & found it lacking
<https://i.postimg.cc/J0fVWCmw/pedometertest01.jpg>
b. We tried an Android pedometer app & found it almost perfect
<https://i.postimg.cc/D0NcGbBH/pedometertest02.jpg>

The wrist-bound pedometer is lacking for a few reasons, one of which is
that it is yet another item on a person's wrist, another is that if it's
not waterproof, it's constantly coming off, another is that these cheap
ones don't fit well, another is that it has to be charged, etc., such that
the person I was helping found it lacking in many respects, other than
counting steps.

For counting steps, the wrist-bound pedometer had the advantage that it
counted all steps during the day, where the phone isn't necessarily carried
all day - but nobody is trying to be 100% accurate in this endeavor, where
the phone-based pedometer has the advantage of nicer graphs (yes, the
wrist-bound pedometer came with an Android app, Yoho Sports).

In summary, after a bit of time, the person who asked for help has found
that the selected free ad free privacy-based pedometer app works just fine:
o It's privacy friendly & doesn't request permissions
o It's robust and has no ads whatsoever & it has decent settings
o It works in the background without draining the battery perceptibly
o It graphs wonderfully by day, by week, and by month
o It has other options (e.g., reminders), which we're not using.

In short, after testing, I recommend the F-Droid app below:
<https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.secuso.privacyfriendlyactivitytracker/>
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.secuso.privacyfriendlyactivitytracker>

NOTE: I didn't test the Google Play version, which may be different.
If any of you test the Google Play version, please let us know how it works
(particularly whether it displays ads or other obnoxious events of import).

NOTE: I haven't tested the Nexus 5 which has a dedicated step counter
sensor; but there's really no need (IMHO) since this app doesn't seem to
adversely affect the battery on a phone sans the dedicated step counter
sensor, which, admittedly, is stellar even after two years on the $130 LG
Stylo 3 plus (which seems to have stellar battery life overall, which is
great for such an inexpensive phone, particularly one with a user-removable
battery - but we've never felt the need to replace it).

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