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On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 10:40 PM, David James <sand...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The scripture in Malachi 3: 8-10 was directed to the corrupt priests who
> failed to honor God and tithe from what they had received. It was not
> directed to the congregation. Read from chapter 1 to understand the true
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Rob & Christina Seever
Missionaries to the Philippines
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It is important for every Christian to search the scriptures to see if what is being taught is so-check the brothers of Berea with Paul...Acts 17...
The important perspective to understand this concept, is to first try and find the period contextually, that is, what is the significance of differentiating between the Old Testament and New Testament; between the Mosaic Law and the New Covenant. The other point is to check what was the purpose of tithes-find the types of tithes (hint there is about 3 types of Maser)-contrast them with the nowadays method-you’d find that there was a currency then but they never used it for tithing...(why then did we modify)-they strictly did not use money(cumin;dill in Mat 23)
If during the birth of the church-the apostles were not being given tithes(fact),but instead people were encouraged to give willingly –and the churchthen, equally divide the contributions according to ones needs...
Yes Paul does teach about the rights of the Apostles-but not indirectly imploring for people to comply with the law of tithing .An interesting part is to read how did Christ fulfil the Law-for He is our high priest now, who with His own blood made an ultimate offering for once ,for us all...(Try and find how some of the tithes were being used-sacrifices)
Tithe is not something to debate about, it is for us to obey. The bible says " It is holy to the Lord" ( Leviticus 27 verse 30), not only it is holy, it belong to the Lord. If indeed we fear the Lord we were not to judge his word by time,old and new. May God of the bible bless all of us.
Hello Nyaradzai, I have never stopped giving to God, and really don't want to stop, but I do enjoy realizing that it is not an obligation. But please don't say that when you give that God automatically blesses you- because that is not always the case, and that is what finally shook me enough to break the yoke of Malachi- to realize that I had put myself under the law- which none of us can fulfill.
God has kept me on a 40 wilderness trip- and has rooted me up regularly, I have never really experienced prosperity, and never have had a secure home- which has been extremely painful to me. It is still a challenge now to allow myself to think that God loves me personally, all those promises that the pastors love to quote from the Bible, do not find manifestation in my life- instead I have been in exile for many years- a wanderer and outcast, like the diaspora. It sounds so dramatic, but it is really just dismal, and I struggle everyday to keep faith. But the Malachi teaching that the pastors love to fill us with has always been a source of real pain and discouragement for me- as I gave and gave my tithes, and yes offerings too even while I was living in a tent, without enough money for bills and food, and 'the prove me in this' part of the scripture-' windows of heaven' opening for me just never happened- so I would think it was me- I was sinful and unloveable- unworthy of consideration, because I kept hearing testimonies of people who began to tithe and like magic their lives came into order and prosperity and they had a way to live. That is what really hurt to realize that I did not ever have a testimony. I thought for years that maybe it is just a delay, that God's plan for me is for later- so I kept on tithing year after year. But I am 61 now and it is time I grew up- it is time to accept the 'tithing' rule as a fairy tale that preachers tell us so that we will support their ministries. And so I will now give when God gives me the resources to do so- that is scriptural also, that he provides the seed for the sower- and my seed bag is full of holes right now. If the good Lord wants me to give then he will provide me with the resource to give out of. I am just sorry I was so guilible for so long. Kathy
We are not saying dont tithe or you must tithe.What we are saying is Tithing is no longer a law that,it MUST be done.
If you are freely paying a tenth of your salary,honestly knowing that there is no scripture that is forcing you to pay it,knowing that even if you dont pay that 10% you are not cursed,its ok.
The problem that is pushing people away from God is the wrong intrepretation of scriptures,to say if Lev 2 says we must burn a bull without blemish then we must do it now because it is written in the bible.
There are preachers out there who are preaching that mal 3:8-10 says you are robbing God by not tithing,then the scripture is applying to us bornagain christians.
Thats putting a yoke on the people's necks which our Lord Jesus did not even carry.
The apostles preached about freewill giving and not tithing.
Jesus never tithed.He never told his followers to tithe.He never tell them to preach tithes.
So go through the attached documents to get a thorough analysis with supporting scriptures about tithes.
22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.
Proverbs22-16 One who oppresses the poor to increase his wealth
and one who gives gifts to the rich—both come to poverty.
Those who give to the poor will lack nothing, but those who close their eyes to them receive many curses.
Sell what you possess and give donations to the poor; provide yourselves with purses and handbags that do not grow old, an unfailing and inexhaustible treasure in the heavens, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys.
2 Corinthians 9:9
As it is written, He [the benevolent person] scatters abroad; He gives to the poor; His deeds of justice and goodness and kindness and benevolence will go on and endure forever!
That is real giving, tithing is pale is comparison.
Dear Pastor Munatsi, thank you for your effort to help me understand our Lord. I know my situation does seem odd- I love the Lord, but after all these years I have to say the 'prove me in this' does not apply to Christians- or I should say 'not to all Christians'- because if you listen to the testimony's on television you would think that every person who tithes has an amazing story of provision, protection and productivetity. It is just those testimony's that push me over the edge- when you keep hearing how God miraculously provides bountifully for his children who tithe and you are in dire straits, it makes you question- am I even God's child? Why does He not provide for me? And it is the contrast, that of course is compounded over the years, that causes me such hurt and dejection. I have asked God to show me someone like me- who has a life experience like me- they must be out there- right? But even those who have bad experiences - those appear to be only for a season- and then the Lord leads them into their promised land. Then I think- well maybe I am a 'bad tree' whose fruit falls to ground and rots. And so it goes in my head.
In 1981 I fasted for 5 days to seek God's will for my life. It may not seem like a long fast, but I have hypoglycemia (chronic low blood sugar) so it was very difficult and maybe dangerous. The Lord gave me a Rhema: Jer. 29:10-14. Of course I did not understand it then, but over the years I have come to understand it- I was exiled for past sins (involved in occult and sexually promiscious), that even though you become born again that does not automatically save you from paying for your crimes. The versus 10-13 I have seen become fulfilled, but the 14th? I am still waiting.
In answer to your questions:
1- It was my understanding that tithing was required, but I was cheerful in giving my tithe. It took 7 years of continuous tithing for it to dawn on me that I was not receiving the promise and benefits that everyone else experienced- I hit the wall at that time- left off tithing for several years. But then returned to it. I have also given of time and other resources when I was urged by the Holy Spirit.
2- yes, but difficult- I see God's hand sometimes in my life- or think I do, but I am always disappointed when a preceived blessing turns into a curse instead. Example- at 40 years old after years of prayer and trying to earn enough I was able to purchase a modest home- I was sure it was God's doing and He had finally given me the desire of my heart- which was to have a home. Two months later I lost my job- the company was taken over and they put new management in place and my former boss took my job and laid me off. There was a recession at the time and I could not find work for 6 months, finally I was able to find a position 250 miles away, and had to take it to save the home. I had to stay at the job site during the week and commute 4 hours on Friday to get home for the weekend- rising at 3 am on Monday morning to drive back to work. It saved the house momentarily, but my career development that was promised in the hiring process was not fulfilled, and 1 1/2 years later I found a job near my home and left. However, that job turned out to be fraudulent and I found another several months later. All this time my mortgage was behind, caught up, behind again, caught up, behind again- all enjoyment and the security I had thought was mine turned into enslavement to keep a house I seldom got to enjoy. Four years later the new company was bought out and I was removed by the new management- I went into business for myself, and that same new boss went behind the scenes to my clients and told them I was dishonest and they stopped giving me contracts. I went under and lost my home. Someone I knew for several years and had done business with had been offering me a job in California (3500 miles away), she kept at it- promising me atleast a year's steady employment, if I would come out and help her get her equine registry office up and running. After losing the home and with no sign of other work I accepted her offer. I borrowed money to move from friends and went out to take the job. Two weeks into the job she fired me- it turned out I was her second choice, and she had recruited 2 of us continually, and she made the promises to me when the other refused. But later the other person decided she would take the job anyway and then with not so much as a final paycheck I was out in the street. I had to go to the labor board to get my paycheck. I can keep going on from horror to horrror- 'storm tossed and not comforted'- another rhema that I got.
3- my profession has been the construction industry, entered in 1979 as a carpenter's apprentice, graduated a journeyman (second in a class of 60) in 1985. Construction sales in 1987, Project Manager in 1990-1992, Insurance Loss project manager for another company 1994-1997, own business 1997-1998, then stint into horse industry in CA, back to carpenter for 1 1/2, then Building Inspector 2000-2005. Sounds okay right? You can see I have skills, I was able to turn my carpenter experience into management and professional positions. But that is only a portion of the story.
I was one of the first women to enter the trade unions in the US. I was totally unprepared for the rage I encountered. Construction is a brutal industry in its best days- the workers unless unionized have no beneifts or job security- when the job is done so are you. But I was part of a huge social experiment where women were being moved into jobs that had traditionally been held by men only and I was at the front lines. Being fairly young at the time I was unaware of what I was stepping into. And the experience was pretty violent, cursing, crude and lewd illustration of myself preforming fantastic sexual acts were posted on the latrine wall, my tools were stolen, I was 'accidently' pushed off staging and work areas, I was threatened and harassed continually. Eventually there were even attempts on my life (truck blown up with me in it, heavy tools accidently dropped on me when climbing down a ladder, crane accidents). God must of preserved my life for something! So when I achieved journeyman status- that is completed my education, I moved to other construction jobs as well as I could. My career has been characterized by sudden stops, loss of income and benefits, so very unstable and hard to prosper in, every time I seem to be getting caught up and on the verge of prosperity, I lose my job or income- usually through someone I work with or work for, somehow changing the rules and fixing it behind the scenes so that I am blamed for something. However even with the resistance to my presence on a job, no one has successfully malaigned my job performance as it is usually well above average. So you see, I have God given skills but have lacked the covering to succeed or prosper.
I am retired now (a forced political retirement) and am on a fixed income trying to re-invent myself in the horse breeding industry. I have had a website online since 2003 and occasionally have been able to sell a horse, but since 2005 I have not been able to sell any- the horse industry is in a terrible recession. I am able to publish articles occassionaly in trade journals but they never pay- so it is just a case of paying my dues to establish a name. So here I am stuck with many mouths to feed, and no way to sell them. It is the same basic frame as I am always in- enslaved and empovished, having to spend every cent I have just to feed the livestock, I would shoot them all and burying them- but you can not do that here and it costs @ $500 to put down and dispose of a horse carcess. Not that I want to do this, but to head off you saying why not just get out of it? Right now you can not literally give away a horse. People are abandoning them but I can't and won't do that. And all the while I tithe and give offerings and love the Lord and study to show myself approved.
Did I mention I have written a book- from 2008 until now and it is ready for publication- and here again I stepped out on faith and researched and wrote it, expecting and believing God to provide a way for me to raise the small amount for publishing when it is done- that is His promise, that He will make a way- He gives us abilities and our gift will make our way- that is what I have been taught. Prosperity comes from God, the Word is clear on this- I have 4 horses up for sale, they are excellent horses, God is who controls these things- and year after year no sale. No provision in sight. I just put one foot in front of the other- one day at a time. I will stop now, I could go on and tell how I married at 51 to a 'great guy', but who wouldn't work once we married, how he inherited a property and how he lost it by not working, how I finally left him after 10 years and miracle of miracle -he decided to get a job then. No living children. Working off my rent at a farm. Just holding on by a thread. Wondering all the while how did I miss it? Why am I not prospering?
You don't have to feel sorry for me, but if you have a reason why all my efforts fail to bring in a harvest, or why the Lord won't bless the work of my hands or if you know of other people who are faithful to the Lord, but are living under the curse it would make me feel better.
>From: Rebecca Brown <sewons...@gmail.com>
>Sent: Sep 12, 2011 10:40 PM
>Subject: Re: [Tithing & Stewardship Group] Is tithing voluntary or mandatory?
From: Nyaradzai Munatsi
Sent: Sep 13, 2011 2:57 AM
Subject: RE: [Tithing & Stewardship Group] Is tithing voluntary or mandatory?
Uum Kathy,your encounters were so unbearable.I read Rabbeca's contribution,she too faced real predicaments that if you are not strong in the faith you would say 'the Lord has rejected me'
I need to comment on both issues.
The two cases brought by you two people(Rabbeca and Kathy are different and yet the same)
The accident that claimed Rebecca's husband and other children was a devilish attack on the people of God.To me it resembles what happened to Job.It did not happen because Jod sinned,but God allowed it to happen anyway for the reasons bestly known to him.
One can even ask to say'why did God allow stephen to be stoned to death.'In the scriptures you see the word of God saying stephen also did not pray for protection,but he said'God in your hands i lay my spirit'.He confirmed where he was going by stating that 'i could see the heavens open,and the son of man seated on the right hand of God'.It explains that THERE ARE THINGS WHICH WE CAN NOT UNDERSTAND HERE UNLESS IF THE LORD OPENS IT TO US'.Why God would let the rightious die sometimes in scaring circumstances,why God would want a very busy and instrumental person in the Gospel like ELIJA to come to heaven with a pillar of fire on a chariot of heavenly horses.It just explains why it happens.HE HAS USE OF HIS RIGHTIOUS PEOPLE THERE IN HEAVEN.If your loved one is instrumental to God,its a treasure to die in Christ.It is a pain yes,but the more you understand scriptures the more you know we dont belong here.Philipans 3:20(We are citizens of Heaven).So you can not be sad if your husband was only going home where he belongs.
But the death through accidents is usually caused by the devil.What we call an attack.
Sorry for the statement that i am about to write it might not go well with you(Rabecca):THE WORD of God says we must pray without ceasing.The moment you relax a bit,the devil can steal from you sametime.I am not implying that you had relaxed a bit,but i am saying sometimes it happens...
Secondly,on your issue Kathy.As i am currently writing,i am feeling the presence of the Lord in my body and am stopping here and there to pray.In other words i seem to be touching on the sensitive part of the enemy(devil) and as the enemy shrieks in worry and pain,the Lord Jesus is protecting me,then i feel His presence.
Your predicament is typical of a curse.What ever you do seem to be bound by a curse.This can be as a result of your past relationship with the devil when you were in ocult and in promiscuity.Ocult involve selling your soul to the devil.Technically you will be practically a candidate of hell,and thus you experience real hell on earth.Read 1 John 5:17-19.The devil will not touch the children of God...,meaning to say the devil can only touch his(devil )own children,not of God.Normally your activities in Ocult involve insulting the Holyspirit and insulting God and Worshiping the devil.Now it depends on how you joined.Whether you were tricked into joining or else it was explained nicely upon joining,how it works(while you were still sober and unpossesed) and you made your own decision to join.If you were tricked,and then later realised that you have joined what you did not comprehend and then you left,your issue is understandable.
But if everything was clear and well decided,there is a risk that your sins might fall within the unforgivable sins mentioned by Jesus.But since he is our only hope,just be baptised and seek his mercy from the bottom of your heart.The word of God says even if your sins are as crimson red,they will be made as clean and as white as snow.
You know what happened.How did you join ocult activities and for what benefit?
Ocult things need real proper deliverance.The way you explain seems to indicate that,those satanic demons are the ones which are still torturing and haunting you.If you are not careful,you might still be in the ocult field without yourself knowing it.The activities of tampering with the soul are very dangerous in that God 's promises about your life are all on your soul.The devil will take everything.The good thing about our Lord is that he says in his word(Joel) that he will restore everything stolen by the devil,when you give yourself to God.
MAY YOU PLEASE READ THIS.IT IS A PRAYER.TRUST THAT THE LORD IS HEARING YOU AS YOU PRAY.LET IT COME FROM YOUR HEART.ITS A PRAYER OF DELIVERANCE FROM DEMONIC BONDAGE.
"LORD JESUS,THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD,I THANK YOU THAT YOU ARE MY LORD.I KNOW THAT YOU ARE MERCIFUL.FATHER I BEG FOR YOUR MERCY.FORGIVE ME.I SINNED BEFORE YOU.MAY YOU WASH ME BY YOUR BLOOD.WASH MY WHOLE BODY AND I WILL BE CLEAN.RESTORE WHAT IS MEANT FOR ME IN THIS LIFE.IN THE NAME OF YOU MY LORD JESUS CHRIST,I SUBMIT MYSELF BEFORE YOU.YOU KNOW MY PAST AND I REGRET HAVING DONE WHAT I DID(you mention what you did).I BELIEVE THROUGH YOU MY LORD JESUS I WILL BE RESTORED.I DO ACCEPT YOU AS MY LORD AND SAVIOUR.YOU DIED ON THE CROSS,YOU WERE BURIED BUT YOU AROSE ON THE THIRD DAY,YOU ASCENDED TO HEAVEN,YOU ARE SEATED ON THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD.I PRAY FOR DELIVERANCE FROM THE POWERS OF DARKNESS.IN THE NAME OF JESUS I AM FREE.I WANT TO GO TO HEAVEN WHEN I PHYSICALLY DIE.LORD JESUS,BE MY LORD FROM TODAY UP TO ETERNITY.IN THE NAME OF JESUS,I THANK YOU FOR ANSWERING MY PRAYER.IN THE NAME OF JESUS.AMEN.
When you pray this prayer from your heart,something must happen.You must feel something.Because as i am writing this i am feeling something.
May the Lord Jesus help you to get restoration and receive liberty.I need to break for now to pray....
> Subject: Re: [Tithing & Stewardship Group] Is tithing voluntary or mandatory?
Greetings! My wife and I have an independent ministry which is 20 years old now by the Grace of God. Here's a short testimony video and a rare time when my wife is on camera sharing her experience balanced with the scriptures.
Please feel free to share any questions and we have more media on our website at www.saltandfire.com which has our homemade original music and teaching videos.
Thanks for coming by,
Mike and Debra
Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Kathy this is Debbie. We are all fighting a corrupt nature. Remember the scripture in Mal 3:2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap: vs. And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness. Even though the Lord put upon our hearts to make the video, we still have to remind our own selves because the word is for the entire body of Christ and the enemy wants us completely focused on ourselves instead of giving it back to Jesus and asking the Holy Spirit for understanding, comfort and guidance. The Lord is still with us and He allows the purification to draw us closer to Him because to be in relationship is His the very reason He created us!