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jared

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Apr 22, 2012, 8:56:46 AM4/22/12
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New Member Wrote:
My testimony is summarized in my nickname - I am too Blessed To Be Stressed - 09 year of revelation. Back in 1990 the Lord laid on my mind that he loved a cheerful giver and to give as the Holy Spirit leads me. That year I had no income but gave as the spirit led and God blessed me abundantly I did not lack for anything. However I am now battling the mindset that I am cursed and robbing God because I do not agree with the tithing doctrine. 

Rebecca Brown

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Apr 22, 2012, 12:26:42 PM4/22/12
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Dear friend if Jesus did not die, fulfill the Law of Moses and bring
in a new and better covenant with better promises, then you have
something to worry about. But He did do all this and more. Tithing was
set up in the old Testament, to provide for the Levitical priesthood.
Of the 12 tribes of Israel one tribe, the Levites, received tithes of
the other eleven. But we have been told something very interesting and
revealing in the New Testament. Heb 7:12 -For the priesthood being
changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. This is
so revealing. The priesthood has been changed! All who are born again
and now a part of the body of Christ are His priesthood! 1Pe 2:9 -But
ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a
peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath
called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Now we are in
the New Testament which Jesus shed His blood to give us. Mr 14:24 And
he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is
shed for many. We entered into this New Testament after Jesus saw
that ALL things had been accomplished that the scriptures might be
fulfilled; when He had accomplished everything to bring the old to an
end and usher in the New. John 19:28 - After this, Jesus knowing that
ALL THINGS were now ACCOMPLISHED, that the scripture might be
FULFILLED, saith, I thirst. After He died tithing was not taught
even one time by any of the writers of the New Testament. It was not a
part of the New Covenant or the new priesthood. He requires something
different and even harder to give. Ro 12:1 -I beseech you therefore,
brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living
sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable
service. If I am His %100, then so is all that I have. Not %10 but
%100 and in order to give the way He wants me to and when He wants me
to, it would behoove me to walk in the Spirit and let Him guide me. He
tells us in the New Testament, how to give 2Co 9:7 - Every man
according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not
grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. You
do not need to fear a curse because of Malachi - Mal 3:11 - And I will
rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the
fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before
the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts. This was said to
the nation of Israel, while they were still under the Law of Moses,
before Jesus came and died for us, and at a time when the people were
breaking His law in many ways. But Jesus destroyed the works of the
enemy for us on the cross. He did the work. We have been saved from
bondage to Satan by the work Jesus has already done. He defeated Satan
once and for all. He is not cursed because of anything we do any more,
except that we must receive the work of Christ and be born again. Eph.
2:5,9+10 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened (made alive)
us together with Christ, by (grace ye are saved.) 9 Not of works, lest
any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship ... Satan does not
want you to know the liberty that is yours. Satan does not want
you to walk in the freedom Jesus paid a great price to give you. I
encourage you to - Ga 5:1 - Stand fast therefore in the liberty
wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with
the yoke of bondage. Do not let the enemy drag you back into a
bondage that Jesus has freed you from. Do not do what the Galations
did - Ga 3:1 - O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye
should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been
evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 - This only would I learn
of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the
hearing of faith? Ga 1:6 - I marvel that ye are so soon removed from
him that called you into the GRACE OF CHRIST unto another gospel:
Remember friend that - Joh 8:36 - If the Son therefore shall make you
free, ye shall be free indeed. Do not allow the enemy to condemn
you and bring fear to your heart because you have accepted the work of
Christ and are willing to live in the New Covenant He has given you.
Instead go ahead and - Jas 4:7 - Submit yourselves therefore to God.
Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. And rest assured that
- 1Jo 4:18 - There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out
fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect
in love. Jesus did the work - Eph 2:15 - Having abolished in his
flesh the enmity, even the LAW OF COMMANDMENTS contained in
ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making
PEACE; 2Co 3:13 - And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face,
that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of
that which is ABOLISHED: What did Moses was this that was
abolished? The old Law of Moses! which Jesus abolished in His flesh.
That law served a purpose at one time. Gal. 3:23+24 But before FAITH
CAME, we were kept under the law, shut up UNTO the FAITH which should
AFTERWARDS be revealed. 24 Wherefore the LAW was our schoolmaster to
bring us TO Christ. Now dear friend go ahead and - 5:1 -Stand fast
therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be
not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. And - Php 4:4 -
Rejoice in the Lord alway: and again I say, Rejoice. I have written a
manuscript on tithing and the law called Money Changers in the Temple.
You might like to read it.But I warn you it is a long study, that
hopefully covers any questions you might have. If you should read it,
plese start with chapter one and read them in order. :)
http://www.moneychangersinthetemple.blog...
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vi...@lavello.net

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Apr 22, 2012, 6:16:49 PM4/22/12
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That's about as good an answer as you get - but following through on that is a beast. The early church did 100% Acts 4:34-35 but I don't and perhaps missionaries do but not the Church. Actually under the influence of this group I quit tithing and over time directing contributions wherever it pleased me to feel led, what happened over time is I took jurisdiction of "my" money to this day I contribute nothing at all and envy the past where at least I tithed.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Rebecca Brown

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Apr 22, 2012, 8:48:13 PM4/22/12
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When all that we are and all that we have is given to the Lord, we are
freed to allow Him to have His way. Whether we do this or not is
another story. But maybe Vince, there is a problem with your concept
of giving. Remember that in the Old Testament even tithing was not
money. It was animals and produce. In the New Testament we are told
that - Mt 10:42 - And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these
little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily
I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward. Giving
involves a lot more than money. If you give someone a ride when they
have a need, you have used money to purchase the gas that was used to
transport that person. If you buy someone a meal, that takes money,
but taking time to listen to a person needing a friend, or taking time
to pray and intercede for others, these do not take money but are
certainly important giving. I guess the question to ask yourself is
"Am I listening to the voice of the Lord and am I willing to obey when
He gives me a direction?" He may not always ask you for money, then
again He may ask you for more than you would be comfortable to give,
if it were not for your love for Him and your trust in Him. If you
lack love for Him or others, then tithing will not solve that problem.
And love is what God is and what He wants from us. If you lack
anything, including love, that God wants you to have, He is willing to
help you in that area when you seek Him with a willing heart.
Gal. 6:2 - Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of
Christ. James 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the
scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: I
personally do not believe we need to judge ourselves on the amount of
monetary giving we do or do not so. Reckon yourself to be dead to sin
and alive to Christ. Put yourself before Him in submission and say
"yes" when He speaks to your heart. Practice this full surrender and
it will become more and more natural. But simply disciplining yourself
so you make certain you are always giving money will never change your
heart or draw you closer to the Savior of the world. Ro 6:11 -
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but
alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

vi...@lavello.net

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Apr 23, 2012, 6:56:24 AM4/23/12
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I believe that what you have said is true only in so far as it affects your attitude and decisions with money. I feel trapped now by the decisions I have made the last 2-3 years and am facing a fight to get back what I lost in the area of tithing - and yes; money.

Money because I am modern - I don't deal in crops or animals.
Money because Jesus said do not store up treasures on earth.
Money because Jesus was observing 'how' they were giving... money.. when he praised the widow for her mites.
Money because the early church were selling their houses and property and bringing the proceeds (money) to the Apostles.

If my giving was only deeds - then how would that meet all the needs?

All I know is that listening to the advice found here led me off course to a strange place where I am the arbiter of truth and I decide what God does with His money - whereas when I tithed - I released a significant amount of my income and I had to be a lot more wise with the rest in order to get by. Which makes Jon Coursons statement ring true: "God is not trying to raise cash, he is trying to raise kids"

I agree with you that Tithing will not fix a heart that lacks love and true devotion - it could make it worse if as you said if I am not given 100% to the Lord.
But if I see myself as 100% the Lords, and I discipline myself in tithing - my giving cannot stop at 10%! When I am the Lords I will follow through with charity - which the public face of love.
Selah
I don't really know anymore.
When I tithed and gave above that - I felt guilty that my kids were missing out on what I could provide - however my kids are still walking with the Lord. My attitude towards God seems to have transferred. Which is something I could not have bought. But... But with some of "my" tithe money now my son gets drum lessons. The teacher - moderately christian but is exposing him to good drummers... Meaning worldly music.
Maybe the jokes on me.

I am rambling yes?
I close with - pray for me. As Luther "I have mislaid my former certainties.."

I want that Proverbs 2 wisdom.
Thanks for listening if you made it this far.
Vince

David James

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Apr 23, 2012, 5:17:12 AM4/23/12
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When a Christian fully understands the commands, purpose and mission of Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit will direct him as to who, when, what, how and where to give if that Christian desires to do so.


From: "vi...@lavello.net" <vi...@lavello.net>
To: ti...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 5:16 PM

>
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/tithe?hl=en
>
> visit the blog
> http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/
> facebook
> https://www.facebook.com/pages/Stewardship-Tithing/163294293719377

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David James

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Apr 23, 2012, 5:01:58 AM4/23/12
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That couldn't be clearer Sis Brown. Thank you.


From: Rebecca Brown <sewons...@gmail.com>
To: ti...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 11:26 AM

Subject: Re: [Tithing & Stewardship Group] New Member
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Rebecca Brown

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Apr 23, 2012, 10:53:00 AM4/23/12
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Vince, if you feel like you should tithe, then do so. There is nothing
in the Bible that says you cannot give %10 of your income. There is
nothing in the scriptures that directs you to do so either. I cannot
tell you that the Bible requires something of you when it does not. I
see that you are troubled. Leaving one mindset that you have had for a
long time is not always easy and the enemy certainly does not want it
to be easy. In 2 Cor. chapter three, the Jewish believers in Paul's
day had their difficulty as well. Paul told them in verse 6 that God
had made him (and others) "able ministers of the new testament; not of
the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit
giveth life." Satan does not want anyone to learn to walk in the
spirit where there is life, rather than in the old letter of the law.
Speaking of the law, ( and tithing was an integral part of the old
law) he told the Galations this - 5:4 - Christ is become of no effect
unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen
from grace. Grace is, according to the Strong's Exhaustive
Concordance, - charis; graciousness ...(abstr. or concr,; lit. or fig.
or spiritual: especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its
reflection in the life; including gratitude): ... When you leave a
mindset of following the letter of the law, you then need to walk in
grace. To be 'in' Christ is to be in a place where your life is led
and guided by the Holy Spirit. You cannot simply look at a list and
check off each deed as you do it, but you are at the mercy of the
Lord. Gal. 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of
righteousness by faith. Vince you must have faith that God will lead
you into all truth and teach you how to walk in the Spirit and live by
grace. By grace, not the law, are we saved. This is a very safe place
to be, though it may not feel so at first . Concerning the law, the
apostle states the dilemma in Gal. 5:7-9 Ye did run well; who did
hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? 8. This persuasion
cometh not of him that calleth you. 9. A little leaven leaveneth the
whole lump. As far as a little leaven leavening the whole lump,
this is said in another place speaking of sin. But here the writer is
speaking of the law. If you try to live by a small part of the law, it
is going to spread and effect your whole mindset. Again, back in 2
Cor. 3 Paul called the Mosaic law the ministration of death and the
ministration of condemnation. And he lets the people know that if the
law (ministration of condemnation) had glory or we might say it was
glorious, the ministration of righteuosness exceeds in glory to the
point that in comparison the law had no glory at all. The glory of the
ministration of righteuosness exceeds it in glory so much that it has
no glory at all. (2Cor.3:7-11) This might sound confusing, but it
comes down to this. 1Ti 1:9 - Knowing this, that the law is not made
for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the
ungodly and for sinners, ... The law is for those who do not walk in
the Spirit and are not ruled by righteousness. I feel, from what you
say that you do not have confidence that you will walk according to
the heart of God if you do not tithe. It sounds as though you feel
condemnation. That in fact you feel you have made some poor choices
with your money since not tithing. Vince if you chose to pay for drum
lessons for your son and you find he is being taught things you do not
approve of, as a father you can stop those lessons and find him
another teacher or wait and let him learn on his own. This has nothing
to do with whether or not tithing is taught or required by God. You
lack confidence in the decisions you make. Let me share with you what
happens when a person attempts to be justified by keeping a part of
the law. 2 Cor. 3:13-18 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his
face, that the children of Israel could not steadfastly look to the
end of that which is abolished: (note: what was abolished and is
referred to here is the law) 14 But their minds were blinded: for
until THIS DAY remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of
the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ. Vince the
people of Israel had a veil over their minds and here we are told that
this same veil remains over the minds of those reading the old
testament. This veil is only done away with 'in' Christ. Ii believe
this means reading it to live by it. The main teaching for tithing
that has been used over the years from many pulpits is Malachi chapter
3, an old testament writing that was to the people of Israel while
they were under the law. It is here in this old testament scripture
that a curse and robbing God is mentioned. But in reading the old
testament, we are told in 2 Cor., there is a veil that remains and
this veil blinds the mind. Verse 15 - But even unto THIS DAY, when
Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart. 16 Nevertheless when it
(the heart) shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away. 17
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is,
there is liberty. 18. But we all, with open face beholding as in a
glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from
glory to glory, even as BY THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD. If you are going
to walk away from tithing, you need to walk away from the mindset of
the law and allow the Lord to renew your mind. If you are going to
question whether or not you are being cursed according to the old
testament and whether or not the Lord will truly lead you by His
Spirit, you may have stopped doing the one thing but not really given
up that part of the law, in your heart. A little leaven leavens the
whole lump. You cannot see God's will clearly with a veil over your
mind and heart. If, however you will turn your heart to the Lord and
His word, given in the New Covenant and will, through the Spirit, wait
for the hope of righteousness, by faith, you can come to know a
liberty and peace you have never yet experienced. You are in need of
being - Ro 12:2 - And be not conformed to this world: but be ye
transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is
that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. You may have
made some mistakes in your choices, I do not know. But If you will
turn your mind away from that subject and focus it on Jesus Himself,
His heart and His will, and will hope to see His righteousness
fulfilled in your life, there are better things to come. The 'hope'
spoken of in the Bible is - elpis; (to anticipate, usually with
pleasure); expetaion (abstr. or concr.) or confidence: - faith. WOW!
This 'hope' is not some game of chance or possibility! It includes
faith. It is the thing you KNOW is coming and you anticipate it. you
look for it and expect it. God wants to take you to a better place in
Him, Vince, but you will not get there by going back to old ways or
being guided by a law that Jesus died and abolished.
Ro 8:24 - For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope:
for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Ro 8:25 -But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience
wait for it.Ro 5:2 -By whom also we have access by faith into this
grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Ro 5:4 -And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
Ro 5:5 -And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed
abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

>> tithe+un...@googlegroups.com


>>
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/tithe?hl=en
>>
>> visit the blog
>> http://churchtithesandofferings.com/blog/
>> facebook
>> https://www.facebook.com/pages/Stewardship-Tithing/163294293719377
>
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>
>
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njmo...@gmail.com

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Apr 23, 2012, 2:37:28 PM4/23/12
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Sent from my Nokia phone

-----Original Message-----
From: David James
Sent: 23/04/2012, 11:17
To: ti...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Tithing & Stewardship Group] New Member

When a Christian fully understands the commands, purpose and mission of Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit will direct him as to who, when, what, how and where to give if that Christian desires to do so.

________________________________
From: "vi...@lavello.net" <vi...@lavello.net>
To: ti...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 5:16 PM


Subject: Re: [Tithing & Stewardship Group] New Member

That's about as good an answer as you get - but following through on that is a beast. The early church did 100% Acts 4:34-35 but I don't and perhaps missionaries do but not the Church. Actually under the influence of this group I quit tithing and over time directing contributions wherever it pleased me to feel led, what happened over time is I took jurisdiction of "my" money to this day I contribute nothing at all and envy the past where at least I tithed.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Rebecca Brown <sewons...@gmail.com>
Sender: ti...@googlegroups.com
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 11:26:42
To: <ti...@googlegroups.com>
Reply-To: ti...@googlegroups.com

Rebecca Brown

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Apr 24, 2012, 1:13:30 PM4/24/12
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Thank you David. Isn't God's Word good!?!
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