Disqus (guest comments) for TiddlyWiki: comming soon

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bimlas

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Feb 15, 2019, 9:37:07 AM2/15/19
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Folks,

I'll soon publish the Disqus plugin, but before releasing, please help in testing: you can write comments for each tiddler separately (on the bottom of them): https://bimlas.gitlab.io/

Unfortunately, signing in (Disqus, Google, Facebook, etc.) is mandatory, otherwise I would have to accept all guest comments one by one.

EDIT:

Enabled guest commenting, because it seems that not everybody like to login just to write a comment.

EDIT:

To be clear: Disqus is not my software, it is a worldwide blog comment hosting service for web sites and online communities: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disqus

@TiddlyTweeter

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Feb 15, 2019, 11:28:09 AM2/15/19
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Very good.

Very good it lets you use exiting login like Google.

I had problems with language--I could login in English but the Disqus interface is in Hungarian.

Josiah

bimlas

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Feb 15, 2019, 11:32:05 AM2/15/19
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Thanks for the reply, this is why I liked to check if everything works before releasing. :)

bimlas

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Feb 15, 2019, 11:39:57 AM2/15/19
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bimlas

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Feb 15, 2019, 11:45:22 AM2/15/19
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@TiddlyTweeter

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Feb 15, 2019, 11:50:36 AM2/15/19
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I understand what DISQUS is. Its a good system.

BimbaLaszlo

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Feb 15, 2019, 11:53:15 AM2/15/19
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Ok, but who does not know, can refrain from using it because he thinks I did.

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@TiddlyTweeter

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Feb 15, 2019, 11:54:23 AM2/15/19
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I been playing with your site on mobile phone--as you will know from my DISQUS messages to you from phone.

Its a very well designed site that adapts to phone very well.

Just a comment
Josiah

bimlas

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Feb 15, 2019, 12:04:44 PM2/15/19
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Thank you very much! I'm glad you like it! ^-^

bimlas

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Feb 15, 2019, 12:15:46 PM2/15/19
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Are you informed about the answers in mail?

BTW: Thanks for testing!

@TiddlyTweeter

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Feb 15, 2019, 12:45:32 PM2/15/19
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bimlas

DISQUS Is working well. Very good job you did. For a plugin the Language tiddlers for GB English are needed  I think?

I could not get it to work on Quinoid on Android phone. I'll ask Mark S. about that. Otherwise it is excellent.

Best wishes
Josiah

@TiddlyTweeter

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Feb 15, 2019, 12:56:52 PM2/15/19
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I just noticed on phone that the headings are now in English--good stuff!

Josiah!

bimlas

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Feb 15, 2019, 1:10:43 PM2/15/19
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Just tried out on latest Qunoid and works for me. Please download the wiki and try again.

@TiddlyTweeter

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Feb 15, 2019, 1:19:19 PM2/15/19
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Excellent!

It is there in Quinoid now!

Josiah.

bimlas

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Feb 15, 2019, 5:05:11 PM2/15/19
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Thanks! I deleted the test messages.

TonyM

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Feb 15, 2019, 10:06:43 PM2/15/19
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Bimlas,

Once again we are seriously fortunate to have you as a full stack developer who trying to make versatile stuff taking an interest in TiddlyWiki.

This disqus commenting solution seems to fill a serious gap in interaction with tiddlywiki. Can you answer a few questions for me please;
  • With the disqus plugin is there a need to write to the wiki, or is the thread all handled in Disqus? Thus even read only single file wikis can provide inline comments?
  • Once I comment on your Wiki, I found a way for me to see all my comments on your wiki and or other wikis (assumed) from inside my disqus account. However I can't see a way to get back to the tiddler from disqus
  • Do you know what the business model for Disqus is, and how will they make money, pay for the service, are we the product?
  • So no account is needed for Guest login (now I have an account I cant test easily)?
Thanks so much for your work

Tony

TonyM

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Feb 15, 2019, 10:13:35 PM2/15/19
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Post script

I am reading the Business model on Disqus and think we must be careful. What do others think?

Tony

bimlas

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Feb 16, 2019, 4:44:19 PM2/16/19
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I'm not familiar with the world of licenses. Could you tell me what's wrong with it?

bimlas

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Feb 16, 2019, 4:55:39 PM2/16/19
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Tony,
 
Once again we are seriously fortunate to have you as a full stack developer who trying to make versatile stuff taking an interest in TiddlyWiki.

Thank you for your kind words, you made me happy. ^-^
 
  • With the disqus plugin is there a need to write to the wiki, or is the thread all handled in Disqus? Thus even read only single file wikis can provide inline comments?
Disqus manages messages in its entirety, thus it needs internet connection - this is a bit contrary to the principles of TiddlyWiki.
  • Once I comment on your Wiki, I found a way for me to see all my comments on your wiki and or other wikis (assumed) from inside my disqus account. However I can't see a way to get back to the tiddler from disqus
This is because the plugin not using the real address of tiddler, which would be permalink. If it would use permalink, Disqus wouldn't make a difference between tiddlers because it would think that all of them are different paragraphs of a common web page. I solved this by deleting the `#` character from the beginning of the permalink, so Disqus find that each tiddler is a separate web page. So if you want to open the link from Disqus, add the # character, eg: https://bimlas.gitlab.io/Attribute -> https://bimlas.gitlab.io/#Attribute
  • Do you know what the business model for Disqus is, and how will they make money, pay for the service, are we the product?
 I'm not familiar with the world of licenses.
  • So no account is needed for Guest login (now I have an account I cant test easily)?
E-mail address is required, but you can comment without any Disqus / Google / Twitter / Facebook account. You can test it by opening your browser in incognito / guest mode.

TonyM

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Feb 17, 2019, 1:14:28 AM2/17/19
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Bimlas,

Thanks for your answers. It is good that disqus is seperate entirely because it allows it to be used independantly of the savability of the wiki. So hosting a single file wiki on any basic server can have interaction.

I understand it does not match the tiddlywiki philosopy but I am not sure it is relavent since if it is public on the internet and you want to allow comments it does not compromise anything.

Reading wikipedia it does raise some issues. When and where do you think we may see advertising?

I think this may be a very good solution to opening wikis to interaction, however I am confident some people may not like the disqus reputation.

It makes me wonder if there are other microblogging solutions we can host ourselves and intergrate with tiddlywiki like you have. I wonder if there are any we can attach tids or jsons to?

Good work, again

Regards
Tony

bimlas

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Feb 17, 2019, 3:49:53 AM2/17/19
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I'm not sure about ads: It seems like they only appear when I enable them (even though I use the free version).

vivaldi_2019-02-17_09-42-31.png


For Disqus alternatives, see 

If you find something that may be of interest to many people because it's good to use and easy to install, then write to me and I try to create a plugin for it.

bimlas

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Feb 17, 2019, 4:42:20 AM2/17/19
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Please look at it again and if everyone says it is good, I'll finalize the plugin: https://bimlas.gitlab.io/

@TiddlyTweeter

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Feb 17, 2019, 7:13:05 AM2/17/19
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Ciao bimlas 

I think its worth mentioning there are TWO free versions of Disqus.

The Basic and Plus Plan (if you low volume and don't carry other ads). 

They differ in how they are configured. Bit more info from here: https://disqus.com/pricing/

Disqus is very well integrated in your wiki example.

IMO, for people who need to communicate its good & easy! 

Great job you did IMO!

Best wishes
Josiah

-- 

TonyM

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Feb 17, 2019, 6:05:19 PM2/17/19
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Bimlas,

I say it's good. And thanks for the offer, I will look at microblogs right away.

Regards
Tony

TonyM

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Feb 17, 2019, 7:35:04 PM2/17/19
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Bimlas,

It is quite complex and there are a lot of options for comment systems, of interest to me so far in my research is the https://intensedebate.com/features which is part of https://automattic.com/ it has lots of integrations with other platforms, twitter, WordPress, Joomla, tumblr, blogger and more, and seems truly open source. I can't yet find if there are any hosting costs, but it appears not.

This may be a great candidate for tiddlywiki inclusion. I have started looking at this and have attached a tiddler that is documenting the install. Primarily it is javascript for the comments. Looks like it should be easy, but at present I do not know how to integrate it with tiddlywiki.


RegardsTony
Unntencedebate.com.tid

Birthe C

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Feb 18, 2019, 1:57:08 AM2/18/19
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@TiddlyTweeter

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Feb 18, 2019, 12:02:56 PM2/18/19
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Ciao TonyM & Bimlas

I looked at this ...

TonyM wrote:
.. my research is the https://intensedebate.com/features ... it has lots of integrations with other platforms, twitter, WordPress, Joomla, tumblr, blogger and more ...

My current understanding is ... 

1 -- its primarily WordPress focused

2 -- its login system is poor with only Facebook generic login

3 -- it does support RSS, which is neat

I think Disqus is far better on just getting on with it now..

My two cents
Josiah

@TiddlyTweeter

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Feb 18, 2019, 2:29:47 PM2/18/19
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Ciao Birthe

I kinda knew, in the back of my mind, someone had ... we loose history too much.

J x

TonyM

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Feb 18, 2019, 3:23:21 PM2/18/19
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Josiah,

If your review is likely to discorage adoption please look into it more deeply before you speak as if you have a comprehensive understanding. It has evolved from wordpress but it is a multi platform tool, and since wordpress is one of the most common platforms its hardly a negative.

We are not compeating here with disqus but read the full wikipedia entry and see if you still feel confident.

Regards
Tony

@TiddlyTweeter

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Feb 18, 2019, 3:38:45 PM2/18/19
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TonyM

I think rather than being totally negative about it I'm simply thinking Disqus is good enough already? What this thread is about!

I'm not totally silly. Having run a WordPress blog. As far as I can see https://intensedebate.com/features only allows Facebook authentication as a generic method?

All in I would say that generic login from Facebook only--if so--is too narrow IMO for us.

I may be wrong.

Update me if otherwise.

Best wishes
Josiah

bimlas

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Feb 19, 2019, 3:23:38 AM2/19/19
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Released the plugin, see announcement here: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tiddlywiki/UyPX_qzPl8w/8QOgGjFUBQAJ

bimlas

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Feb 19, 2019, 3:25:20 AM2/19/19
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Tony,

Would you like the Discorage plugin or will you talk to Josiah before?

TonyM

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Feb 19, 2019, 4:28:23 AM2/19/19
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Bimlas,

I will use the disqus plugin, thanks so much, but if you can port the intence debate client I think it would would be a powerful alternative with a greater degree of independance from a proprietary solution and as it can connect to other blogs a potentialy greater audience.

I have to ask you because I do not know how, but I will support you where I can. I am also looking forward to the completion of widgets for dummies to start myself.

I am an advanced wordpress designer, so do I believe I can build the user database backend for tiddlywiki user registration.

Thanks
Tony

bimlas

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Feb 19, 2019, 4:33:57 AM2/19/19
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Tony,

Ok, I think I'm gonna do it this week if I have enough time.

TonyM

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Feb 19, 2019, 4:51:55 AM2/19/19
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Josiah,

Sorry I have not had enought time for a full responce. Facebook is definitely not the only login method, my suspicion is we can use open ids.

Lets see how we go and make a call when more info is available and Bimlas identifies if it is easy or hard.

Regards
Tony

TonyM

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Feb 19, 2019, 5:29:02 AM2/19/19
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Bimlas,

No pressure, thanks if you can, no problem if you cant.

Thanks in advance
Tony

Sylvain Naudin

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Feb 19, 2019, 7:17:45 AM2/19/19
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Hi Bimlas,

Like Tony about privacy concern / tierd party / closed source /etc.. if you work on FLOSS alternative, I'll be happy with that :)

As a paid cloud service, Commento sound great (https://commento.io/ - https://docs.commento.io/)

But congrats for the Discuss plugin by the way :)

Cheers,
Sylvain

Jack Baty

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Feb 19, 2019, 10:54:44 AM2/19/19
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Commento.io is indeed quite nice. I was hoping to replace Disqus, and after looking at several commenting systems, I recently settled on Commento. The developer is concerned about privacy, and is reachable and responsive. I also find that the Commento UI is rather less "busy" than either Disqus or IntenseDebate.

The Disqus plugin by Bimlas is very cool and does a really nice job of integrating with TW. For Disqus users it's terrific.

I wonder if there's a way to abstract parts of the plugin in order to make it more easily portable for use with non-Disqus commenting systems.

bimlas

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Feb 19, 2019, 5:44:10 PM2/19/19
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Jack, Tony,

I would love to handle all the comment management services in a single plugin, but I'm afraid that they are very different in terms of operation. I could compare it to the task of implementing a common interface for Wikipedia, ZimWiki, and TiddlyWiki. Practically they are just like each one is a kind of wiki.

BTW thank you for Commento.io, I will have a look at it.

For the time being I am trying to implement the IntenseDebate plugin, although I see that it will not be perfect: there can be no more different counters on the page, there can only be one, so I cannot show at the bottom of the tiddlers how many comments they have written to them. Not sure if it will work at all, but I do everything I can.

TonyM

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Feb 19, 2019, 6:23:01 PM2/19/19
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Bimlas,

Understood. Thanks so much for looking at this. I will match your work with mode detailed study of IntenceDebate hosting and membership etc...

Commento.io allows self serving although currently only on Linux, enabling an independent environment which is a positive, but a node solution may be better for some hosting.

It looks like commenting is a big area of its own. After obtaining a few coimenting possibilities the community should compare, contrast, evaluate etc... and see if we can identify the key solutions. 

Regards
Tony 

TonyM

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Feb 20, 2019, 5:13:48 PM2/20/19
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Folks,

Over on Discord there is a post about disqus integration with https://zapier.com/apps/discord/integrations/disqus

Regards

bimlas

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Feb 20, 2019, 5:54:49 PM2/20/19
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Tony,

I just finished the plugin, but I do not recommend this plugin because it doesn't seem stable! If you close the comments immediately after opening them, Red Screen Of Death will appear. This has no effect on your data in principle, but just for the sake of safety, open the comments only in a read only online wiki.

bimlas

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Feb 20, 2019, 5:58:06 PM2/20/19
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Tony,

Linking applications is Zapier's primary goal as far as I know. This is not the privilege of Discord or Disqus, but a feature of Zapier.

https://zapier.com/apps/disqus/integrations/

TonyM

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Feb 20, 2019, 8:12:13 PM2/20/19
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Bimlas,

Intence debate seems to be working well. However I did reproduce the bug.

Do you think this is solvable?

As posted previously I will look at some of the server side and intergrations.

Yes, I understood zapier was a cross platform tool. Sometimes answers can be outside a proprietary tool.

Regards
Tony

TonyM

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Feb 20, 2019, 10:26:48 PM2/20/19
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Bimlas,

Feedback on intensedebate plugin and for others interested in this.

First, I am really impressed with you Bimlas (yet again) building this so quickly. It seems to be working very well excluding your identified bug, I have installed it here!

https://tiddlywiki.psat.com.au/

  • In the plugin settings " Forum hash code (`idcomments_acct`)" should be changed to "IntenseDebate site acct: " and in Readme/Setup
  • Before uploading the site to my host I discovered I could already post comments when on file:///C:/Data/TW5/PSaT/psat.com.au.html#
    Cool, This could be used to comment on "foreshadowed updates"
  • Do you think IntenseDebate may allow us to pass the current tiddler as the "page"? 
    I submitted a request to IntenceDebate to see if we can return a link back in the form 
    https://tiddlywiki.psat.com.au/?IDComment1069506919#tiddlername 
    Rather than
    https://tiddlywiki.psat.com.au/Blog#IDComment1069506919
    On a per blog basis to help TiddlyWiki integration.
  • Perhaps we can provide the ability to paste into an active comment the permalink to the tiddler, but of course we can already copy the permalink to the clipboard.
Advantages
  • Bring Multiple Blogs into one Comment System TiddlyWiki, WordPress, Blogger, FriendFeed (indirectly any rss)
  • Moderation settings possible
  • Twitter and Facebook options for posts
  • Enable Akismet spam filtering
  • Enable the Profanity Filter
  • Whitelist/Ban users (inc IP and Email addresses)
  • Automatic Comment deletion
  • Add Moderators
  • Various plugins available
  • Custom CSS
  • Export Comments to XML
  • Easily include a Intense Debate Badge
  • Subscribe to RSS feeds all comments and/or those for moderation
  • Additional Intense Debate Widgets available as javascript (So I do not know how to activate) eg Popular blog posts widget
  • Feedburner integration
  • Can be used in WordPress, Joomla, Tumblr and Blogger as well
  • HTML Formatting

    You can also customize your links and add some photos to your comments. IntenseDebate supports the following HTML tags: <a>, <b>, <i>, <u>, <em>, <p>, <blockquote>, <br>, <strong>, <strike>, <img>.

  • all comments are indexed by search engines, so you won’t lose any of the SEO goodness.

  • FriendFeed Comment Retrieval

  • Reply-by-email

    Did you know that you could reply to comments directly from your email inbox? When you get a notification about a new comment posted on a blog you’re subscribed to, you can reply directly to the email using our Reply-by-email feature. Simply reply to the email with your comment, and it’s done!

    If you’re the admin of the blog you can even moderate using this function, simply reply approve, deny, or spam

Regards
Tony

bimlas

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Feb 21, 2019, 1:35:35 AM2/21/19
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Tony,

For the time being, it doesn't seem to me that I can fix it. :( Sorry.

TonyM

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Feb 21, 2019, 1:59:49 AM2/21/19
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Sure, I will investigate myself, and perhaps see if other devs can help,
thanks so much for what we have.

Regards
Tony
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