[The Amp Guide] 1981 Blackface Princeton Reverb?

[RickD]

I just bought a Blackface Princeton Reverb. The number stamped on the
Chassis is F113333 (is that the serial#?). The chassis has 2 ink
stamps on it. One is "81" and the other is "2801". Everywhere I look
I see that the Blackfaces stopped in 1967. Does anyone know anything
about this?

This amp has a 5U4GB Rectifier, 2 6V6's and the rest of the pre's are
12AX7's and one 12AT7. Shouldn't one of them be a 7025?

Any info on this and how it differs from the early Blackfaces or
Silverfaces would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Rick

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[B L]

Hi Rick,

What are the exact codes stamped on the three transformer covers? 

Sounds like a 1981 model to me, strictly based on the F113333 serial number.

[Rick Duval]

Small one says 022921 and EIA606-136, next size up says 022913 and EIA606--106, big Black one says M02272, EIA606-113 and UL 1411.

Rick

[B L]

Hi Rick,

That makes it a late 1981, given the "F" serial number. (I presume it is not a Princeton II)  

Technically, your amp is not the classic black face Princeton, in the sense of how collector and Fender nuts consider black face  amps...which look like this:

princeton+reverb.JPG

I am guessing your amp looks like this:

5622293.jpg

which is the way the very last year or two of the Princetons looked.

The middle era silverface Princetons, of course, looked like this (this is a '68 model, after 68 they dumped the silver edge on the grill)

68pr12.jpg

By the way, one interesting thing about your amp is that 1981 is the last year for the original Leo Fender inspired Princeton Reverb design. By the transformer codes, I'd say that yours was probably one of the very last ones to roll off the production line, probably in October-ish of 1981. In 1982 Fender released the Rivera/Jahns "Princeton II", a totally different design with solid state rectifier and a boost circuit. To me at least, that makes your amp kind of interesting as the "last of the best". As such it is may be worth a little bit more than the typical mid-70's silverface. Of course, you're going to get into plenty of arguments with folks about this being a "real" Princeton - as lots of folks will confuse your "last of the best" Princeton with the Rivera/Jahns Princeton II. 

Just tell them to stick their head in the back and explain that tube rectifier hanging there. That'll convince them. :-)

Finally, all three of the 1964-1981 era Princeton Reverb amps are very similar circuits. AB868 (GZ34 rectifier) and then later AA1164 (5U4 rectifier) for most blackfaces, AB1270 (5U4) for silverface'd versions, as well as your "son of blackface".

Cheers!

Keith

CoolBlueGlow

[B L]

Oh, and regarding the tube complement, that is correct...a 12AX7 and a 7025 are the same tube. 7025 is just selected for low noise and durability.

cheers,

Keith

[RickD]

Wow! Thanks, BL. That's a ton of information and I appreciate every
bit of it.

So I guess technically its a factory Blackfaced Silverface.

Bottom line is it sounds GREAT! Ok, the boost "kinda" sucks but the
tone on the rest is awesome. My first "real" vintage fender... I'm
lovin' it.

BTW, the speak is stamped with 137 6949D. Does tha make the speaker a
1969 CTS or am I reading that wrong?

On May 16, 2:52 pm, B L <coolblueg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Oh, and regarding the tube complement, that is correct...a 12AX7 and a 7025
> are the same tube. 7025 is just selected for low noise and durability.
>
> cheers,
>
> Keith
>
>
>
> On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 10:29 AM, B L <coolblueg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi Rick,
>

> > That makes it a late 1981, given the "F" serial number. (I *presume* it is
> > not a Princeton II)
>
> > Technically, your amp is not the *classic* black face Princeton, in the

> > sense of how collector and Fender nuts consider black face  amps...which
> > look like this:
>

> > princeton+reverb.JPG<http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_xWjoeLNcmQo/SdzRHT9-Q_I/AAAAAAAACx8/7PXaNYp...>

>
> > I am guessing your amp looks like this:
>

> > 5622293.jpg <http://is.gumtree.com/image/big/5622293.jpg>

>
> > which is the way the very last year or two of the Princetons looked.
>

> > The middle era *silverface *Princetons, of course, looked like this (this

> > is a '68 model, after 68 they dumped the silver edge on the grill)
>

> > 68pr12.jpg <http://www.gatheringdust.com/images/68pr12.jpg>
>
> > By the way, one interesting thing about your amp is that 1981 is the* last
> > * year for the original Leo Fender inspired Princeton Reverb design. By

> > the transformer codes, I'd say that yours was probably one of the very last
> > ones to roll off the production line, probably in October-ish of 1981. In
> > 1982 Fender released the Rivera/Jahns "Princeton II", a totally different
> > design with solid state rectifier and a boost circuit. To me at least, that
> > makes your amp kind of interesting as the "last of the best". As such it is
> > may be worth a little bit more than the typical mid-70's silverface. Of
> > course, you're going to get into plenty of arguments with folks about this
> > being a "real" Princeton - as lots of folks will confuse your "last of the
> > best" Princeton with the Rivera/Jahns Princeton II.
>
> > Just tell them to stick their head in the back and explain that tube
> > rectifier hanging there. That'll convince them. :-)
>
> > Finally, all three of the 1964-1981 era Princeton Reverb amps are very
> > similar circuits. AB868 (GZ34 rectifier) and then later AA1164 (5U4
> > rectifier) for most blackfaces, AB1270 (5U4) for silverface'd versions, as
> > well as your "son of blackface".
>
> > Cheers!
>
> > Keith
> > CoolBlueGlow
>

> > On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Rick Duval <r...@duvals.ca> wrote:
>
> >> Small one says 022921 and EIA606-136, next size up says 022913 and
> >> EIA606--106, big Black one says M02272, EIA606-113 and UL 1411.
>
> >> Rick
>

> >> On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 9:37 PM, B L <coolblueg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> Hi Rick,
>
> >>> What are the exact codes stamped on the three transformer covers?
>
> >>> Sounds like a 1981 model to me, strictly based on the F113333 serial
> >>> number.
>

[B L]

Rick,

Wait...it has a BOOST circuit? That shouldn't be there. Is that a boost circuit that is switchable via footswitch? Or, is it simply a pull switch? Can you send clear photographs of the front and back of the amp?

Hmmm...what IS this thing?

[Rick Duval]

Yes it has the knob with the "pull VOLUME boost" printed below it and the foot switch which works when the knob is engaged (1/4" phone on back). It also has RCA jacks (on back) for Reverb and Vibrato switching.

[Rick Duval]

I have higher res pictures if you want just not sure how to upload them...

[RickD]

BTW, if anyone wants to see pics of the interior and circuits they're
in this thread... http://groups.google.com/group/the-amp-guide/browse_thread/thread/5730c98c978cf72c#

On May 18, 7:58 pm, Rick Duval <r...@duvals.ca> wrote:
> I have higher res pictures if you want just not sure how to upload them...
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 6:08 PM, B L <coolblueg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Rick,
>
> > Wait...it has a BOOST circuit? That shouldn't be there. Is that a boost
> > circuit that is switchable via footswitch? Or, is it simply a pull switch?
> > Can you send clear photographs of the front and back of the amp?
>
> > Hmmm...what IS this thing?
>

[Bluesman]

I have a feeling this is a Rivera era Princeton Reverb. Perhaps a
version prior to the Princeton Reverb II.

On May 20, 8:12 am, RickD <duval.r...@gmail.com> wrote:
> BTW, if anyone wants to see pics of the interior and circuits they're

> in this thread...http://groups.google.com/group/the-amp-guide/browse_thread/thread/573...

[B L]

Yeah,but not a standard PII...as it has a tube rectifier - which means a mains transformer with a 5V heater tap. Also did you notice the death cap switch? Pure 70's thinking. The internal construction style looks like any typical silverface Fender to me.

This is one weird Princeton.

[Stratopastor]

I promise it's not a Princeton Reverb II.. my website for that amp

http://www.stratopastor.org.uk/strato/amps/prii/PRII_hub.html

I'm away from home right now and can't look up my copy of Teagle and
Sprung but I think you'll find your amp in there....

best wishes

Andrew

On Jun 30, 10:59 pm, B L <coolblueg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yeah,but not a standard PII...as it has a tube rectifier - which means a
> mains transformer with a 5V heater tap. Also did you notice the death cap
> switch? Pure 70's thinking. The internal construction style looks like any
> typical silverface Fender to me.
>
> This is one weird Princeton.
>