September TCBA Advocacy Committee Agenda

[dale freeman]

FYI

See attached agenda for tomorrow's meeting as well as a copy of last month's minutes.

Please let me know if you have any additional agenda items by noon tomorrow.

Please let me know if you need me to send you a zoom link for the meeting.

Thanks!

Dale

[Tom Hardenbergh]

All,

Responding to the "Note": Rivers have branches.  The Lansing River Trail has branches.  People will call them something to better tell another person what "branch" of the trial they were riding.  All the riding public (those who care) need to do is agree on the names.  Doesn't matter what the city does.  I think having names for the branches of The Lansing River Trail is a wonderful idea.  I'll start it:  East Branch, South Branch, West Branch, North Branch.  To use these names, we would need to agree on a central point on the trail system; then, assign a name to a section (from-to).  Could be any set of names.  Come up with some others.  Then, we'll sit down and agree on it.  Does FLRT care about this?  Good work, Dave!

Tom H

--
This is the Tri-County Bicycle Assn Advocacy Committee Google Group. The comments posted to this list are the expressions of individual members and are not to be construed as an endorsement by the TCBA-Advocacy group unless specifically stated otherwise. Our website is: http://biketcba.org/advocacy
 
To post to this group, send email to tc...@googlegroups.com. Replies are sent to the author of the message NOT to the whole group, so if you want to reply to the whole group be sure that tc...@googlegroups.com is included in the To or CC field.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tri-County Bicycle Assn Advocacy Committee" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tcatc+un...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tcatc/CAJh7Gkj-qOCEms9aaOo6ZbgQqiq%2Bkeaiyjpq6ZDibYBSujzPMQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[alice...@gmail.com]

Might make sense to name some branches of the trail after the waterway it follows — like the Sycamore Creek Branch?

Alice

(via my phone; my mother suggests you take a moment to appreciate my uncharacteristic brevity)

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tcatc/CAPjo8MNoTRn2Mtk%2B_CqZkSDrBg%3D-Ox1pF9%3D-DikTvocUMzDXxg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Tom Hardenbergh]

Alice, there ya go.  Nice start.  Good suggestion.

[Baumann, Thomas]

Hi Dale,

This is regarding the Towar/Lake Lansing intersection. In the August minutes it states that a letter was sent to ICRC and a meeting was planned.  Do you know if the letter is available somewhere and if the meeting with ICRC happened? Is there a consensus from TCBA-Advocay as to what to support?

 

I am a little worried that a possible big improvement will be shot down due to some of us thinking they have a better solution. When this came up earlier I only heard criticism about this project, which was baffling to me, because the status quo is definitely not acceptable.

 

Thanks and best regards,

Thomas.

--

[Alice Dreger]

Here’s the letter that was sent to EL and MT. Mike just shared it with me.

[artbe...@sbcglobal.net]

    We can at least all agree on the benefit of the road diet configuration on Lake Lansing road.  I haven't decided to appear at this meeting. If so I will advocate the "light treatment", definitely not the status quo.

           Art

On Sunday, October 3, 2021, 02:35:34 PM EDT, Alice Dreger <alice...@gmail.com> wrote:

Here’s the letter that was sent to EL and MT. Mike just shared it with me.

--
This is the Tri-County Bicycle Assn Advocacy Committee Google Group. The comments posted to this list are the expressions of individual members and are not to be construed as an endorsement by the TCBA-Advocacy group unless specifically stated otherwise. Our website is: http://biketcba.org/advocacy
 
To post to this group, send email to tc...@googlegroups.com. Replies are sent to the author of the message NOT to the whole group, so if you want to reply to the whole group be sure that tc...@googlegroups.com is included in the To or CC field.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tri-County Bicycle Assn Advocacy Committee" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tcatc+un...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tcatc/D94BDA8A-E3E6-43AD-9BCD-62684CDD610D%40gmail.com

.

On Oct 3, 2021, at 2:29 PM, Baumann, Thomas <baum...@msu.edu> wrote:

Hi Dale,

This is regarding the Towar/Lake Lansing intersection. In the August minutes it states that a letter was sent to ICRC and a meeting was planned.  Do you know if the letter is available somewhere and if the meeting with ICRC happened? Is there a consensus from TCBA-Advocay as to what to support?

 

I am a little worried that a possible big improvement will be shot down due to some of us thinking they have a better solution. When this came up earlier I only heard criticism about this project, which was baffling to me, because the status quo is definitely not acceptable.

 

Thanks and best regards,

Thomas.

 

From: tc...@googlegroups.com <tc...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of dale freeman
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2021 8:35 PM
To: tcatc <tc...@googlegroups.com>; Patrick Kelley <pres...@biketcba.org>; Dave Mansfield <mansf...@chartermi.net>; Erin Sloan-Turner <er...@lmb.org>; Ann Siegle <anns...@gmail.com>
Subject: [TCBA-Advocacy] September TCBA Advocacy Committee Agenda

 

FYI

 

See attached agenda for tomorrow's meeting as well as a copy of last month's minutes.

 

Please let me know if you have any additional agenda items by noon tomorrow.

 

Please let me know if you need me to send you a zoom link for the meeting.

 

Thanks!

 

Dale

-- 
This is the Tri-County Bicycle Assn Advocacy Committee Google Group. The comments posted to this list are the expressions of individual members and are not to be construed as an endorsement by the TCBA-Advocacy group unless specifically stated otherwise. Our website is: http://biketcba.org/advocacy
 

To post to this group, send email to tc...@googlegroups.com. Replies are sent to the author of the message NOT to the whole group, so if you want to reply to the whole group be sure thattc...@googlegroups.com is included in the To or CC field.

--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tri-County Bicycle Assn Advocacy Committee" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email totcatc+un...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tcatc/CAJh7Gkj-qOCEms9aaOo6ZbgQqiq%2Bkeaiyjpq6ZDibYBSujzPMQ%40mail.gmail.com.

-- 
This is the Tri-County Bicycle Assn Advocacy Committee Google Group. The comments posted to this list are the expressions of individual members and are not to be construed as an endorsement by the TCBA-Advocacy group unless specifically stated otherwise. Our website is:  http://biketcba.org/advocacy
 
To post to this group, send email to tc...@googlegroups.com. Replies are sent to the author of the message NOT to the whole group, so if you want to reply to the whole group be sure that tc...@googlegroups.com is included in the To or CC field.
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tri-County Bicycle Assn Advocacy Committee" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tcatc+un...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tcatc/CH2PR12MB3877DCD3D1260A7D87ABDA96C5AD9%40CH2PR12MB3877.namprd12.prod.outlook.com.

--
This is the Tri-County Bicycle Assn Advocacy Committee Google Group. The comments posted to this list are the expressions of individual members and are not to be construed as an endorsement by the TCBA-Advocacy group unless specifically stated otherwise. Our website is: http://biketcba.org/advocacy
 
To post to this group, send email to tc...@googlegroups.com. Replies are sent to the author of the message NOT to the whole group, so if you want to reply to the whole group be sure that tc...@googlegroups.com is included in the To or CC field.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tri-County Bicycle Assn Advocacy Committee" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tcatc+un...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tcatc/D94BDA8A-E3E6-43AD-9BCD-62684CDD610D%40gmail.com

.

[Dean Brailey]

Dale, I plan on going to the meeting tonight. Do you know if anyone else is attending from the committee?

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tcatc/CH2PR12MB3877DCD3D1260A7D87ABDA96C5AD9%40CH2PR12MB3877.namprd12.prod.outlook.com.

[dale freeman]

Art may or may not be able to make it.  Tim is aware of it, but I didn’t see him say he was attending.  I cc’d the rest of the TCATC email group to see if anyone else has plans to attend.

[Twede, Diana]

Mike and I are going.

Diana

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tcatc/CAJh7GkhP89X-2qVHbi36nRQKPOdZfYsTYdN8GFSKGDGmo8h9vA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Tim Potter]

One of my friends in attendance at the City of EL Transp. Comm. meeting suggested that perhaps we invite some key people involved with this project to our next monthly meeting.

One of them is Dan Opsommer who's a Mer. Twp. Board member AND chief of staff for Julie Brixie in the House.  He's been very supportive of bicycling related initiatives in Mer. Twp. as has Julie as some of you know.

He or she might be willing to communicate to the ICRD to help make them consider and respect our concerns more than they showed in the Mon. meeting.  The ICRD staff was quite dismissive and obviously making their decisions based on improving the "efficiencies" of motor vehicle traffic and not for the safety of the increasing numbers of people walking/jogging/ biking thru that intersection.

I'm happy to invite him if no one objects.

Tim

*************************
MSU Bike Advisory Comm. member
Mer. Twp. Transportation Commission member
TCBA Advocacy Comm. member
Ride of Silence webmaster
LCI #5207

Ride of Silence:  www.rideofsilence.org

2022 Ride of Silence: Wed. May 18th, 7:00 PM
One day. One time. One world, world wide.
Let the silence roar....

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tcatc/CH2PR12MB36710EB581A50D60E68DC675ACAE9%40CH2PR12MB3671.namprd12.prod.outlook.com.

[Twede, Diana]

Good idea. The next meeting is next week.

Diana

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tcatc/CACuXwQ3GK3-wC%3DOLT%2B12QnQ93eNgXuQc%2BUazZm05DhHuKhqeRQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Michael Unsworth]

Go for it Tim

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tcatc/CH2PR12MB3671A7F9801E2C06673B68CAACB09%40CH2PR12MB3671.namprd12.prod.outlook.com.

[dale freeman]

Sounds great Tim.  Get me the contact info and I can make sure it’s on the agenda and that they get the zoom link.

Thanks

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tcatc/CAK_4_h_PB7FDRJLcXHqQE7mkFGO7ohR8YCpkGr9fP04MDpM1Mw%40mail.gmail.com.

[alice...@gmail.com]

Just a reminder that if a quorum of EL TC commissioners show up and some participate, they’ll need to do public notice in advance and do it as a meeting under the OMA. 

Alice

(via my phone; my mother suggests you take a moment to appreciate my uncharacteristic brevity)

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tcatc/CAJh7GkgwT8NTOdRDkdiRTCMQQY7222sccM2vYHrDYN4rXcHXYA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Tim Potter]

We're talking about having one of the Mer. Twp. trustees attending our next TCBA Advocacy meeting, not an ELTC member, although that might be a good idea to invite one of them too so they can provide some input/ feedback.

Tim

*************************

[Alice Dreger]

Gotcha! Sorry to misunderstand. 

Alice

[David Goodman]

Thanks! The Northern Tier Trail already has a Main Trail, along with North and South Branches. It’s relatively grid-like, though. But for the current “River Trail” system, I suggest simply “Lansing Trails” or “Lansing Trail System.”

“Branches” are not necessary or really useful here though, I prefer individually appropriate names for the various Lansing area trails as I have already mentioned. Grand (River) Trail/Pathway or Washtenong (River) Trail/Pathway, Bear Lake Pathway/Trail (even the mayor seems onboard with this one), South Lansing Pathway, Sycamore Trail like Delhi Twp already does it, Waverly Rd Pathway, Red Cedar (River) Trail/Pathway etc etc

Dave Goodman 

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 6, 2021, at 2:14 PM, Alice Dreger <alice...@gmail.com> wrote:

Gotcha! Sorry to misunderstand. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tcatc/1729CC24-16BF-4446-A2F7-A0A112974DA8%40gmail.com.

[Tim Potter]

OK, I've heard back from Dan Opsommer, who is a Mer. Twp. board trustee AND chief of staff for Rep. Julie Brixie.

He said that he's recommending to staff that a recommendation to the MT board be drafted up from the MT Transp. Comm. supporting the modifications to the ICRD plans for the intersection that would make the project safe for people who walk/bike/ jog, etc. thru that intersection.  He said after reading the TCBA letter and listening to the comments on Monday that the 2 main things are:

1. Add a marked crosswalk possibly with some flashing lights (RRFB?) north-south across Birch Rd. east of the intersection.

2. Keep both marked and signalized ped crossings as proposed across Lk. Lansing to allow for safe crossings to both sides of the intersection.

I then pointed out that the addition of a sidewalk on the south-side of Lk. Lansing from Northgate past the Whitehills elementary to the park would be a 3rd request for this project as Bob Lovell raised.  Not sure this came out in other comments or the ELi article, but this project is actually a much larger one than just the intersection; the ICRD staff stated it's from Abbot Rd. to Hagadorn Rd. (and that goes for the amt of $$ being budgeted as well).

Dan is going to try attend our monthly meeting next Wed. but isn't sure he'll be done w/ another meetg in time.

Let's discuss the above further next Wed.

Tim

PS:  I invited one of the Ingh Co. commissioners to the meeting who has been supportive of non-moto projects (Mark Polsdolfer), who extended the invite to Commissioner Emily Stivers as this project is in her district.  Haven't heard back from her yet.

[Michael Unsworth]

Emily is a member of the Parks Board. She has not been terribly receptive to the icrd proposed plan.

--

This is the Tri-County Bicycle Assn Advocacy Committee Google Group. The comments posted to this list are the expressions of individual members and are not to be construed as an endorsement by the TCBA-Advocacy group unless specifically stated otherwise. Our website is: http://biketcba.org/advocacy
 
To post to this group, send email to tc...@googlegroups.com. Replies are sent to the author of the message NOT to the whole group, so if you want to reply to the whole group be sure that tc...@googlegroups.com is included in the To or CC field.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tri-County Bicycle Assn Advocacy Committee" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tcatc+un...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tcatc/CACuXwQ0znbQuvPX%3Dqd6EVZZDL021zJkrWWTZeBTZUDXL9GBNig%40mail.gmail.com.

[Arthur Slabosky]

Point of information : it’s Birch Row (avenue?)

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 7, 2021, at 12:45 PM, Michael Unsworth <uns...@gmail.com> wrote:



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tcatc/CAK_4_h85qjVSYWOt6kG99cuOFjH2G6XFgBsPXtpBmiH5T-XpJg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Dave]

It's actually Birch Row Drive.

-----Original Message-----
From: Arthur Slabosky <artbe...@sbcglobal.net>
To: uns...@gmail.com
Cc: Tim Potter <flyingdu...@gmail.com>; tcatc <tc...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Oct 7, 2021 12:53 pm
Subject: Re: [TCBA-Advocacy] September TCBA Advocacy Committee Agenda

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tcatc/6B52DF9D-FE4C-46E0-BF8E-B1B0FFA380C8%40sbcglobal.net

.

[Dave]

Alice and Tom,

Here is the email I originally sent to Dean Brailey.  It lays out all my original suggestions.  East Lansing's Northern Tier Trail has North and South Branches because there are no other appropriate names available for them.  That is not the case with the Lansing Trail System.  I prefer to use "trail" or "pathway" whenever possible.

That's why I much prefer "South Lansing Pathway" (which everything had led me to believe would be the posted name) over South Lansing Branch, for instance.  Or "Sycamore Creek Trail" or "Sycamore Creek Pathway" over "Sycamore Creek Branch."  Even Delhi Twp.'s section of Sycamore Trail is called just that, "Sycamore Trail."  Perhaps Lansing should strive to be more like Delhi Twp. in that respect :-)

Dave Goodman

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave <daveh...@aol.com>
To: brai...@comcast.net <brai...@comcast.net>
Cc: dfree...@gmail.com <dfree...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tue, Sep 14, 2021 5:32 pm
Subject: Re: FLRT, Lansing area trail names

Hi, Dean:

I had thought the South Lansing Pathway would be designated as such through the recent wayfinding signage project. But when I first bicycled the SLP following the installation of this signage there, I was surprised, confused and very disappointed to see that it had been designated as yet another branch of the Lansing River Trail.  It says that in the small text and the largest, both.  So neither the overall name of the Lansing Trail System (a good overall trail system name!) nor the name of the specific trail was given any real thought by the people involved.

I think Lansing River Trail was a fine name back when it was first created and followed only the Grand River and Red Cedar Rivers.  However, the "Lansing River Trail" system now includes trails along Sycamore Creek and trails that do not even follow any water course, let alone a river.  Such as Bear Lake Pathway, Waverly Road Pathway, South Lansing Pathway, etc. etc. plus other future trails such as along Forest Road and the one within Fenner Arboretum.

My proposal is that we rename all individual trails in the Lansing area non-motorized trail system to something that is specific to that trail.  Such as Grand River Trail (or Pathway), Red Cedar River Trail (or Pathway), Sycamore Creek Trail (or Pathway), Bear Lake Pathway, South Lansing Pathway, Waverly Road Pathway, MSU to Lake Lansing Trail (or Pathway), and so on and so on.  The name of the overall Lansing area system can also be reconsidered, but should be different than "Lansing River Trail," because not every trail involved follows a river, let alone a water body.

I was very disappointed (and shocked) that Brett Kaschinske, when I spoke with him for the very first time upon leaving the Ingham County Parks Non-Motorized Trail stakeholders meeting on Aug. 11, angrily shot down these suggestions.  It appears he didn't want to even consider the idea, possibly because he had just finished working with the FLRT on this very project.  He certainly could have been much nicer about the whole thing.

Despite all that, and in total fairness given that all this signage is indeed relatively new, it would be possible to print new labels with all this information to cover the old versions.  This has been done on a smaller scale on the Northern Tier Trail in East Lansing, specifically at the Harrison Meadows bridge (and possibly other places I'm not aware of). Specifically several incorrect directional arrows were covered over with corrected arrows.  So it CAN be done.  Of course, simply replacing this signage (while incorporating my suggestions) may be better in the long run.

The bottom line here is, calling all Lansing Regional Trails "Lansing River Trail" is simply not specific enough, and appropriate names for each trail/pathway would greatly help people to find their way around Lansing by bike or foot.

Also, might it be possible to get MSU involved in installing their own signs with MSU-specific graphics (while following the format of the other LRT wayfinding signs) along their own portion of the Red Cedar River Trail?

Dave Goodman

On Aug 11, 2021, at 8:27 PM, dale freeman <dfree...@gmail.com> wrote:



Hi Dean,

Dave wanted to get a hold of you to talk to you about the Lansing Regional Trails, so I am emailing you both to connect you.

Dale

-----Original Message-----
From: alice...@gmail.com
To: greenv...@gmail.com
Cc: dale freeman <dfree...@gmail.com>; tcatc <tc...@googlegroups.com>; Patrick Kelley <pres...@biketcba.org>; Dave Mansfield <mansf...@chartermi.net>; Erin Sloan-Turner <er...@lmb.org>; Ann Siegle <anns...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thu, Sep 16, 2021 8:15 am
Subject: Re: [TCBA-Advocacy] September TCBA Advocacy Committee Agenda

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tcatc/5CCCDBB9-E87A-4CF2-AC08-2FB1EDAD09E0%40gmail.com.

[Dave]