Do you believe the revolution is coming?

[Wise TibetanMonkey]

There are three kinds of people out there:

The religious crowd who's waiting for some sort of Armageddon, the pessimists who talk about WWIII, and the optimists who believe the REVOLUTION is coming soon.

Now, what kind of revolution will that be? I'll make a few rules that would make the world better:

1- No SUVs or Gated Communities

2- Clean, safe communities

3- No corruption

I don't know if we should unleash the drones on the corrupt or should decapitate them, but profiting from public service would be dealt with efficiency and expediency.

So what do you expect from a revolution, not to be disappointed? I think the revolution should take shape under the public scrutiny and not in the mind of a single leader. Is that where other leaders failed? The revolution itself may or may not be democratic. It will just be competition to the current so called "democratic systems" and fake revolutions.

So let's talk revolution.


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http://BANANAREVOLUTION.bravesites.com

[Thrinaxodon]

The new revolution indeed is coming, just look at:

http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins

[Wise TibetanMonkey]

Sure that's the right link? Let me provide my own contribution here:

On Saturday, February 22, 2014 11:25:32 AM UTC-5, Resty Wyse wrote:

> The revolution may be invincible, but certainly it is NOT invisible.  You can see it happening in Afghanistan, in Pakistan, in Ukraine today, in Venezuela today, in Greece, in Italy, in England, in the inner cities of America.

Ask yourself if those revolutions are summer storms or a typhoon ready to wipe out the edifice of capitalism.

Ask yourself if those movements are clearly defined meteorological systems. Do you think Ukraine is about democracy or money?

[Wise TibetanMonkey]

http://s881.photobucket.com/user/thetibetanmonkey/media/Screenshot_zpsf59590ac.png.html?sort=3&o=0

It says, "Revolutions in Plazas, Homes and Bed."

It makes a lot of sense: The revolution must include everything, including what you eat, and how you burn the calories.


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http://BANANAREVOLUTION.bravesites.com

[Thrinaxodon]

>
Well, I do think talk.origins, not talkorigins is certainly worthy of your posts (it's moderated). And no, I don't think the Ukraine is a democracy.

 

[Wise TibetanMonkey]

Ukraine may enjoy enjoy better life under Europe but it's not about freedom. A good chunk of the population is Russian so there's a good chance there are more conflicts in store.

Russia may as well join the EU and become the greatest superpower in the world.

 

[Thrinaxodon]

China is already moving up the ranks fast. By 2030 (GASP!) it's predicted that China will be ahead of the US.

[Wise TibetanMonkey]

Both China and America rank low in QUALITY OF LIFE. We need a different kind of revolution.

[Wise TibetanMonkey]

On Monday, February 24, 2014 11:32:09 AM UTC-5, Malcolm McMahon wrote:

> On Saturday, 22 February 2014 14:58:57 UTC, Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher  wrote:

> 

> > There are three kinds of people out there:

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> > 

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> > 

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> > The religious crowd who's waiting for some sort of Armageddon, the pessimists who talk about WWIII, and the optimists who believe the REVOLUTION is coming soon.

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> > 

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> 

> I'm a "none of the above". I'm hoping society will continue a path of evolutionary advance.

It would take perhaps another 100,000 years for the human mind to evolve and trust that your neighbor won't use a nuke on you.

In the meantime we have cavemen with nukes.

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> > 

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> > 

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> > Now, what kind of revolution will that be? I'll make a few rules that would make the world better:

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> > 

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> > 1- No SUVs or Gated Communities

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> > 

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> There are probably only tens of people in the world that share your obsession in that area. That means you'd have to be a totalitarian dictator.

You know, probably anyone NOT owning an SUV or living in a gated community would agree with me. That's perhaps as much as 95% of the world's population.

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> > 2- Clean, safe communities

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> And mums and apple pie. HOW? How will these communities be safe, above all from you?

Well, anything is possible if you would your mind to it. For example, we may place cameras everywhere to fight crime and tame traffic, not unlike the UK. Does it help or not?

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> > 3- No corruption

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> The more narrowly you try to circumscribe human behavior, the more corruption.

Really? Should corruption be tolerated? How about child pornograghy? Should we let the predators run free?

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> > I don't know if we should unleash the drones on the corrupt or should decapitate them, but profiting from public service would be dealt with efficiency and expediency. 

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> Which would soon result in there _being_ no public services.

Are you saying that a non corrupt public servant doesn't do any good?

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> > 

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> > So what do you expect from a revolution, not to be disappointed? I think the revolution should take shape under the public scrutiny and not in the mind of a single leader. 

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> As long as the public can be made to agree with you.

Again, perhaps as much as 95%.

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> > Is that where other leaders failed? The revolution itself may or may not be democratic. It will just be competition to the current so called "democratic systems" and fake revolutions.

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> Idealistic leaders of revolutions are, as a rule, murdered quite early by less idealistic leaders.

Maybe. Presidents of America are also a target. But Fidel Castro outlived them all. Perhaps because he's evil?

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> Those less idealistic leaders don't fail, they just don't have the same goals as the idealists do.

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> Thus Stalin is to Marx as Paul was to Jesus.

I don't believe that less idealistic leaders have the same goals as the idealistic ones. The less idealistic just want to control and rule.

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> > So let's talk revolution.

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> Orwell already said it all.

Orwell never said a revolution wasn't necessary. He just saw the danger that Marxism doesn't match human nature. He was a socialist, not a capitalist advocate. 

The Christian and Marxist utopias have been tried. Now we need something else. Not too radical, something to fix a community at a time and perhaps the world as well. Don't tell me we have to live in filthy communities because we can not afford otherwise.

[Thrinaxodon]

True. But you must admit that America is way ahead of China when it comes to democracy and power. (China's getting there in terms of economic and military power.)

Another Cold war might start.

[Wise TibetanMonkey]

I don't know, I read somewhere that Chinese elites are more receptive to people's ideas because they fear revolution.

Not so in America. "Democracy" works as Xanax.  I see it in my community. People feel absolutely powerless to stop all the corruption around us.

[Wise TibetanMonkey]

On Tuesday, February 25, 2014 5:39:21 AM UTC-5, Malcolm McMahon wrote: 

> On Monday, 24 February 2014 20:13:43 UTC, Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher  wrote: 

> By evolutionary advance I mean mostly that societies continue to gradually adjust themselves to the humans, but I suspect there are signs that actual human evolution may be occurring faster than you think. Pinker looks at the statistics for homicide, and sees a steady decline in rates per head of population. 

A statistic that betrays the fact that the gated communities are growing everywhere. It may just be that FEAR is part of daily life. 

I'll give an example: The actual statistics of bicycle accidents is low, but most people simply fear to ride on the road. Hey, the Dutch are not taking any chances and provide separate bike facilities. Even Ecuador does. In the last few years a revolutionary president (that one that gave political asylum to Julian Assange) has implemented safe bike lanes while we in America play Russian roulette with unconnected bike lanes. The fact is cyclists, pedestrians and cars struggle for "space." Guess who wins. 

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> This could be partly a sign of human evolution. The most civilising facility of the human brain is impulse control, and I think Pinker's stats and analysis suggest that the average levels of impulse control may be improving, and that part of that may be genetic evolution. A kind of shift in the balance of power in the human mind. 

Sure, look at Iran and the West struggling with the nuke and the ape mind. The smaller ape wants to make sure he's got his own stick to defend from the bigger ape. "Fear is in the air"... 

 

> > In the meantime we have cavemen with nukes. 

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> The risks today seem a fraction of what they were 40 or 50 years ago. 

Not as much as I need to ride a bicycle on the road. Not as much that Orwell police state is nearly a reality.  

> > You know, probably anyone NOT owning an SUV or living in a gated community would agree with me. That's perhaps as much as 95% of the world's population. 

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> A fair percentage might be irritated, but only a handful would consider them the number one enemy of society. Only a handful share your obsession. 

I never said they were enemy #1. Just that they can wipe out any family in a Mini Cooper in an instant. 

(to be continued --or not)

[Wise TibetanMonkey]

On Tuesday, February 25, 2014 5:35:02 PM UTC-5, Jason wrote:

> In article <0abd1ccc-e662-4ac5...@googlegroups.com>,

> 

 

> > Well, you'll need a lot more than two policies.

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> The revolution has already started. Radical Muslims attacked America on

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> 9/11. Radical Muslims have attacked our embassies and military ships.

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> Radical Muslims very recently murdered 4 Americans in Benghazi. Susan Rice

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> claimed the Benghazi attack was related to Muslims being upset about an

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> anti-Muslim video. The Benghazi attack actually was a well planned

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> terrorist attack. When Mrs. Clinton was asked if it a terrorist attack or

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> an attack by protestors that were upset about an internet video, Mrs.

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> Clinton replied "what difference does it make?"

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> Read this:

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> http://spectator.org/blog/2013/01/24/hillary-2016-what-difference-d

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> When Hillary Clinton told Wisconsin Senator Ron Johnson ³What difference

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> does it make?² during today¹s congressional hearing on the Benghazi

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> attacks, she unveiled the slogan for her 2016 presidential campaign.

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> It¹s the story of her life.

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> What difference does it make if Hillary was named after Sir Edmund Hillary

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> six years before he climbed Mount Everest?

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> What difference does it make if Hillary wasn¹t really under sniper fire in

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> Bosnia?

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> What difference does it make that tens of thousands of civilians have been

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> killed in Syria over the past two years? Assad is, after all, a ³reformer²

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> in Hillary¹s eyes.

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> So if four Americans just happen to be killed in our consulate in Libya on

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> the 11th anniversary of the September 11th attacks what difference does it

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> make to Hillary if our government claims their deaths came about as a

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> result of a spontaneous protest over an internet video?

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> The reason Hillary can make such an utterance is because none of her

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> shortcomings seem to bother a majority of our populace who continue to

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> hold her in high esteem. Indeed, she has reached the pinnacle of her

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> popularity as two out of every three Americans have a favorable view of

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> the outgoing Secretary of State.

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> If Hillary can say ³what difference does it make² regarding how her fellow

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> Americans were killed in Benghazi without most of us batting an eyelash

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> then she quite reasonably has every expectation to take up residence in

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> the White House in four years time. Should that come to pass it would not

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> speak well of us.

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> Yet it is is important that Hillary was largely away from American soil

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> during Obama¹s first term in her capacity as America¹s top diplomat.

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> Absence does make the heart grow fonder. But if Hillary once again becomes

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> part of the rough and tumble of day to day electoral politics and reverts

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> to previous stridence this popularity will undoubtedly diminish. That

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> could make a very big difference in 2016.

The world needs a set of priorities different from what we've got now.

1- Crime: legalize weed, opium, meth, or do what it takes when the wars are not winnable (eg Mexico, Afghanistan). Educate people don't punish them,

2- Climate Change: give the option to people NOT to pollute (eg the humble  bicycle), no future if we stay committed to consumerism,

3- Give the young something positive to do. Let them ride a bike or skateboard so they can have some fun. Let them make love at the beach if they so wish (sex on the beach),

4- Tame traffic: That's a good war worth fighting for. Forty thousand casualties (40,000) every year in America alone,

5- CORRUPTION, last but not least. Corruption not terrorism is the main enemy of the people. It's sucking the blood of the poor quite openly, etc.

See? It's all a matter of "priorities"...

[Wise TibetanMonkey]

On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 11:00:25 AM UTC-5, Malcolm McMahon wrote:

> On Wednesday, 26 February 2014 15:40:49 UTC, Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher  wrote:

> > The perfect metaphor for any complex system is "the jungle," which is a significant part of my campaign...

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> On the contrary, the jungle is a pretty simple system, whose rules you can learn in a couple of days. The default condition of human beings is the Hobbsian anarchy, every man for himself, then we progress to every tribe for itself, then every nation for itself, then (current stage) nations slowly start to federate.

It's not simple. It's tempting to unify all knowledge under the "jungle of ideas," but a humming mosquito may throw you off in the middle of all the analytical process. 

Belief in the jungle of ideas

(review of Edward O Wilson's Consilience) 

Epigenetic rules govern behaviours and responses to the environment, from the reflex reactions of infants, the construction of grammar and, according to Wilson, the recurring formations in diverse human cultures. In pursuit of his project he analyses various other hard and soft sciences - anthropology, economics, sociology, philosophy - discussing their belief systems and modes of operation. He moves on to art, ethics and religion. It is a courageous endeavour, and line after line of his reasonable exposition strikes this reader as just, sensible, even wise. 

http://www.lse.ac.uk/CPNSS/research/projectsCurrentlyOnHold/darwin/readings/byattsegregation/byattconsilience.aspx

Even the ants resist classification. ;)

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> > For example, do you think unleashing the law of the jungle in Iraq was a good idea? 

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> No, it's a demonstration that you can start from a pretty bad, unjust, tyrannical social order, but if you bring it down things almost always get worse than you could have imagined.

How would you fix the critical situation in Cuba, Venezuela, evolution or revolution? It seems the problem is not revolution, but radical revolutions. Pinochet stopped socialism in Chile... Is that good or bad?

 

> > Monkeys will always experiment with drugs because they are curious. Adam & Eve were curious and God cursed them and everybody else for that. Was the tree of wisdom weed? There's plenty of myth and wisdom to go around in the jungle.

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> But it wasn't the tree of wisdom they raided (perhaps unfortunately) it was the tree "Of Knowledge of Good or Evil". To me this seems like an analogy of the invention of morality itself. Note how the first effect was that Adam and Eve went from nude to naked.

Curiously, they have their morality wrong. It was thousands of anonymous ancestors who died from curiosity, that we know which fruits are good to eat and which ones are poisonous.

How many leaves they burned before getting to weed? Peace may be upon the anonymous ancestor. God cursed humanity for being curious.