“You could fit a whole rice genome in the difference between those two
strains of corn,” says Virginia Walbot, a molecular biologist at
Stanford University.
<http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/49808/title/
Corn_genome_a_maze_of_unusual__diversity>
----------------------------
But corn is still corn despite the wide genetic diversity between the
types of corn.
Since the wide genetic differences do not matter, neither does any
genetic similarities.
The fact that man has similarities of the gnome with apes, is
irreverent.
You have no idea how "irreverent" this is!
LOL
If you had read one more paragraph, you wouldn't have had to start
this thread:
"Much of that difference is due to the action of transposable
elements, better known as jumping genes. Transposable elements
(transposons for short) are mobile pieces of genetic material that hop
around the genome, sometimes taking genes or pieces of genes with
them. It was in corn that Nobel laureate Barbara McClintock discovered
transposons. The genome project discovered some new families of
transposons, revealing a total of 1,300 such families in maize, says
Patrick Schnable, a maize geneticist at Iowa State University in Ames.
Together, transposons and other repeated pieces of DNA make up 85
percent of the maize genome in the B73 strain."
So what?
>
> “You could fit a whole rice genome in the difference between those two
> strains of corn,” says Virginia Walbot, a molecular biologist at
> Stanford University.
>
Interesting, yet that isn't evidence *against* evolution, and actually
supports one of the elements that supports the over-all ToE:
Variations within the species. Which fits in quite weel with the fact
that thare are several varieties of "corn".
> <http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/49808/title/
> Corn_genome_a_maze_of_unusual__diversity>
> ----------------------------
>
> But corn is still corn despite the wide genetic diversity between the
> types of corn.
So what?
>
> Since the wide genetic differences do not matter,
Where did you pull that asinine conclusion from? (As if anyone had to
ask.)
> neither does any
> genetic similarities.
Stupidity must not run in your family: It must gallop full tilt into
the nearest brick wall, head first.
And today's logical fallacy: Argument from Ignorance, as in "ASS-I
(diot) is totally ignorant of genetics".
>
> The fact that man has similarities of the gnome with apes, is
> irreverent.
Your mind boggling stupidity knows no bounds, does it?
Boikat
So a modified grass with a very unusually high
proportion of transposons is now representative of
all divergent species, is it?
That's a very nice biased sample fallacy you've
cooked up. What's next?
--
"I do not pretend to be able to prove that there
is no God. I equally cannot
prove that Satan is a fiction. The Christian god
may exist; so may the gods of
Olympus, or of ancient Egypt, or of Babylon. But
no one of these hypotheses is
more probable than any other: they lie outside the
region of even probable
knowledge, and therefore there is no reason to
consider any of them."
-Bertrand Russell
Around 10% of the human and chimp genomes is composed of the same
single type of transposable element ALU. There are more transposable
elements that that in the human and chimp genomes, but that is one of
the major ones. Most of the insertion deletion differences in total
nucleotides (not mutational events) are due to transposable elements
that have different insertion sites in chimps and humans. These
elements can insert and extract themselves from a position. That is
why they are called transposable.
It isn't just transposable elements, but Maize is an amphidiploid.
That just means that two different species crossed and doubled their
genomes to essentially make Maize a tetraploid (instant speciation
event), but with two different genomes. This is not uncommon in
plants. Various maize cultivars have lost different pieces of the two
genomes because they obvioiusly have a backup for all the genes.
Ron Okimoto
If by "irreverent" you mean assinine, then, yes...
What, if any, effect does this have on genetic "clocks"?
I have read in Survival of the Sickest, that under stress mutation
rates can accelerate markedly. This could pose a problem for genetic
"clocks", if the species in question have had different amounts of
stress during their history, no?
Actually, no. If you read up on this, corn is the result of several
phases of
hybridization. It wasn't "corn" at all, but rather a variety of grass
that is
called "teocinte".
>
> Since the wide genetic differences do not matter, neither does any
> genetic similarities.
>
> The fact that man has similarities of the gnome with apes, is
> irreverent.
Only if you don't study the subject, but make handwaving generalities
based on imprecise language. A person comes away knowing less after
engaging in creationist style argumentation.
-John
Verry irreverrant! Prease to ret me know where to find Carrifornia! I
cause no trrubber!
You (deliberately) stopped your quote before the explanation. It
continued to say:
>Much of that difference is due to the action of transposable elements,
>better known as jumping genes. Transposable elements (transposons for
>short) are mobile pieces of genetic material that hop around the
>genome, sometimes taking genes or pieces of genes with them.
and:
>Corn’s liberal genetic policies might eventually get it into trouble.
>For instance, “In other species, it’s a rare individual that has
>active transposons,” Walbot says, because active transposons have the
>potential to disrupt crucial genes. But the strategy has worked for
>corn, allowing its genome to nimbly adapt to changing environmental
>conditions, often from generation to generation. But, the species could
>also, eventually, split into multiple species.
In other words, the reason corn has such a diverse genome is that it has
an unusually high mutation rate. Plants are generally more tolerant
than animals to their genomes being messed around anyway (for example
look up polyploidy, it's much more common in plants).
Your conclusion is false because humans and chimps *don't* have that
high mutation rate, so their similarity *is* relevant.
--
sapient_...@spamsights.org ICQ #17887309 * Save the net *
Grok: http://spam.abuse.net http://www.cauce.org * nuke a spammer *
Find: http://www.samspade.org http://www.netdemon.net * today *
Kill: http://mail-abuse.com http://au.sorbs.net http://spamhaus.org
Would anyone know what percentage of ape genomes are made up of
transpons? To they contribute at all to the genetic differences among
ape genera? I imagine they are far less significant than in maize.
Mitchell Coffey
>the genetic diversity between any two strains of corn exceeds that
>found between humans and chimpanzees, species separated by millions of
>years of evolution. For instance, the strain B73, the agriculturally
>important and commonly studied variety decoded by the maize genome
>project, contains 2.3 billion bases, the chemical units that make up
>DNA. But the genome of a strain of popcorn decoded by researchers in
>Mexico is 22 percent smaller than B73�s genome.
>
>�You could fit a whole rice genome in the difference between those two
>strains of corn,� says Virginia Walbot, a molecular biologist at
>Stanford University.
>
><http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/49808/title/
>Corn_genome_a_maze_of_unusual__diversity>
>----------------------------
>
>But corn is still corn despite the wide genetic diversity between the
>types of corn.
And grasses are still grasses.
You really don't comprehend biology. You've made it clear that you do
not want to.
But he did come up with a great title for a fantasy novel: "The Gnome
with Apes".
the guy's a complete moron. he doesn't realize that this says zip
about evolution.
he's arguing that genetics have no role in making an organism. THAT
idea is unique to him, no other creationist daring to even state such
an idiotic idea.
unfortunately for creationists, chemists have done a pretty good job
at proving genes control most of our body plan
creationists still believe you should pray to a wizard or a ghost or
whatever to make things happen.
> Subject: Top Scientific Evidence Against Evolution
That's impossible, shit-for-brains. Evolution is observed
happening.
--
http://desertphile.org
Desertphile's Desert Soliloquy. WARNING: view with plenty of water
"Why aren't resurrections from the dead noteworthy?" -- Jim Rutz
Gnomes are like that.
--
Mike.
>the genetic diversity between any two strains of corn exceeds that
>found between humans and chimpanzees,
More proof of just how closely us great apes are to each other.
> species separated by millions of
>years of evolution. For instance, the strain B73, the agriculturally
>important and commonly studied variety decoded by the maize genome
>project, contains 2.3 billion bases, the chemical units that make up
>DNA. But the genome of a strain of popcorn decoded by researchers in
>Mexico is 22 percent smaller than B73’s genome.
>
>“You could fit a whole rice genome in the difference between those two
>strains of corn,” says Virginia Walbot, a molecular biologist at
>Stanford University.
>
><http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/49808/title/
>Corn_genome_a_maze_of_unusual__diversity>
>----------------------------
>
>But corn is still corn despite the wide genetic diversity between the
>types of corn.
And humans are still apes.
>
>Since the wide genetic differences do not matter, neither does any
>genetic similarities.
I see you want to have your cake and eat it.
>
>The fact that man has similarities of the gnome with apes, is
>irreverent.
Irreverent of not, the fact that man IS an ape is very relevant.
--
Bob.
If brains were dynamite, you wouldn't have enough to blow your nose.
So, since corn is still corn despite wife genetic differences does
this mean you accept that chimps and humans, with a much smaller
genetic difference, are not only closely related but are the same
species?
Mark Evans
Exactly! Finally, you come around....
(snip)
Eric Root
Their similarity *are not* relevant.
If corn, or any species for that matter (and for what ever reason) can
be THAT different WRT their gnome yet still be considered the same ----
then the opposite should be true for humans and chimps.
The point is, genome similarities *are not* relevant when looking for
common ancestory.
Corn clearly shows that.
No it doesn't.
--
Bob.
You have not been charged for this lesson - learn from it rather than
continuing to make a fool of yourself.
>>
>> Your conclusion is false because humans and chimps *don't* have that
>> high mutation rate, so their similarity *is* relevant.
>
> Their similarity *are not* relevant.
>
>If corn, or any species for that matter (and for what ever reason) can
>be THAT different WRT their gnome yet still be considered the same ----
>then the opposite should be true for humans and chimps.
uh...why? evolution produces change. that's a fact. the degree of
change is irrelevant.
>
>The point is, genome similarities *are not* relevant when looking for
>common ancestory.
?? since when? all we have to do is have a mechanism that produces
change, along with an ability to measure change
this is like saying that because we can send spacecraft to the moon,
we can't drive across the street because that distance is so small
jesus christ you're stupid.
>
>Corn clearly shows that.
not to me it doesn't. of course i'm sure you have an ancient text that
references the genetics of corn...
after all, look how much progress creationism made in 2000 years.
none.
Damn, didn't notice you'd already chez'd the watt. :-)
It must be nice to merrily post your asinine idiocies and totally
ignore the replies that refute your claims. It allows you to exist in
a cloud of blisful stupidity.
Boikat
Click your heels while saying that Dorothy. See if it comes true.
When are you going to realize that your stupidity does not work on me?
Run along now budikka. Let the grownups talk, mkay?
You have a species here (for what ever the reason) clearly shows a
wide diversity in the genome.
But over and over it is claimed that this much difference in it's
gnome would be considered a clear case for speciation divergence.
This example could clearly shows that the percent of gnome can be
irrelevant in determining which species are ancestral to one another.
That seems to be your possition.
>
> When are you going to realize that your stupidity does not work on me?
Irony.
>
> Run along now budikka. Let the grownups talk, mkay?
Good advice. When are you going to grow up, Spazzo?
Boikat
Does it?
>
>But over and over it is claimed that this much difference in it's
>gnome would be considered a clear case for speciation divergence.
Could be, not would be.
>
>This example could clearly shows that the percent of gnome can be
>irrelevant in determining which species are ancestral to one another.
Could is the right word.
--
Bob.
Everyone is entitled to be stupid but you're abusing the privilege.
Delusion is not good for you Mudbrain.
--
Bob.
People may not always remember exactly what you said, but they will
always remember just how bright you made them feel.
Yes. So what?
>
> But over and over it is claimed that this much difference in it's
> gnome would be considered a clear case for speciation divergence.
First. Nobody has ever claimed that genetic variations within a
species, in and of itself, constitutes speciation.
Second, What does this have to do with gnomes? What's next, elves?
Third, As has been pointed out, plants are much more tollerant of
cross pollenation, which is why there are so many varieties within
many crop species.
Forth, You should stop teying to look "knowledgeble". It makes you
look stupid.
>
> This example could clearly shows that the percent of gnome can be
> irrelevant in determining which species are ancestral to one another.
See. You made yourself look stupid again.
Boikat
This is a spell checker error, --> not a chez watt.
>
>
> > The fact that man has similarities of the gnome with apes, is
Who are you, the chez watt police?
I can see you're sensitive on this question, and I suggest a defense:
learn to spell, and/or use a spell checker. On "CHEZZY", for example.
No, it is an indication of your illiteracy.
-sp
At last you speak the truth. You need your own special brand of
stupidity.
Mark Evans
He already HAS a special brand of stupidity.
--
Bob.
>On Nov 27, 8:04 pm, VoiceOfReason <papa_...@cybertown.com> wrote:
>> When gnomes attack, reverence suffers.
>
>
>This is a spell checker error, --> not a chez watt.
Liar! Your posts prove you do not attempt to spell check.
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> > The fact that man has similarities of the gnome with apes, is
>> > irreverent.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
Madman (aka Mudbrain) is on record as claiming:-
Science causes disease.
That 3.5% actually means 25%...
That the actor Paul Newman was a creationist...
That "Dr." Kent Hovind has made lots of *scientific* discoveries...
That wars have been fought because some scientific finding discredited
some facet of some religion...
To have a "higher education" than most posters to this news group...
To understand how geologists determine the age of any given sample of
rock...
That trilobites were Cambrian mammals... [that one still makes me
laugh]
And that he has "created genes" and not evolved ape genes...
That linguists have traced all the world's languages to the Middle
East region and back to around the same time as the bible claims Noah
and his sons rebuilt mankind.
Claimed that talk.origin's moderator was a troll.
Claimed cigarettes do not cause cancer.
Now, I ask you, is this the sort of guy you would give an credence to?
Certainly I don't.
--
Bob.
CHEZZY WATT is spelled exactly the way I coined the phrase.
> You have a species here (for what ever the reason) clearly shows a
> wide diversity in the genome.
Yes, that's fairly common in plants.
>
> But over and over it is claimed that this much difference in it's
> gnome would be considered a clear case for speciation divergence.
Except that it's not genetically isolated. The genes still flow between
the populations.
>
> This example could clearly shows that the percent of gnome can be
> irrelevant in determining which species are ancestral to one another.
Ah, so you are making the mistake of thinking that chimps are ancestral to
humans now. Hint: Humans aren't the descendants of modern chimps, the two
species are close cousins.
The genetic relationship of humans with chimps show they both came from a
common ancestor, not that one is ancestral to another. Likewise the corn
genome shows close relationships between the different populations of corn.
All modern forms of corn evolved from a plant called teosinte.
DJT
You seem to be
1) a Liar.
2) an illiterate cretin.
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/72da997300264649?hl=en
Obviously, since the word "chezzy" is nonexistent, exactly
as is the evidence supporting your beliefs. At least you're
consistent.
--
Bob C.
"Evidence confirming an observation is
evidence that the observation is wrong."
- McNameless
>On Nov 27, 8:04 pm, VoiceOfReason <papa_...@cybertown.com> wrote:
>> When gnomes attack, reverence suffers.
>This is a spell checker error, --> not a chez watt.
So it's really a laziness error? Try actually looking at
what your spellchecker flags as errors. If you'd done that
when crafting the thread title you could have prevented a
bit of humor at your expense; "chezzy" indeed...
He's right; you spelled "cheezy" correctly (well, I would
have spelled it "cheesy", but whatthehell...), and he munged
the spelling. "Chezzy" is indeed his creation.
You have probably seen Ron O's reply to me by now. He says it's about
10% transposons.
IANAE, but AIUI, the molecular clock rates vary but are usually pretty
close within a family or closely related family (family in the
biological classification sense). It is calibrated by the fossil
record. So it's the number of changes divided by time since a well-
dated last common ancestor between two species. That rate can then be
used to estimate the time of the last common ancestor of other species
in the family. It only provides a ballpark figure.
Much speciation results from the stress of adapting to new niches. I
doubt it would be common for a species to be stressed enough to alter
the mutation rate significantly over an extended period of time
without going extinct.
A significant rate change could be detected. Lions and tigers are more
similar to one another than either is to jaguars, indicating a more
recent common ancestor between each other than the LCA with jaguars
and would be confirmed by the DNA similarity. If there were more
differences in the DNA between lions and jaguars than there were
between tigers and jaguars, it would be obvious that the lion's
mutation rate was greater than the tiger's since the lion-tiger split.
That's OK. You came up with a better title. I kept drawing blanks. I
blame the trytophan.
--
http://desertphile.org
Desertphile's Desert Soliloquy. WARNING: view with plenty of water
"Why aren't resurrections from the dead noteworthy?" -- Jim Rutz
Gee. Even Darwin knew that artificial selection was a much faster
process than natural selection. And the different cultivars of corn
certainly have been subjected to artificial selection right from the
get-go. Corn, as we know it, is essentially the essence of a man-made
species designed for man's purposes.
Just like brewer's yeast. I have the suspicion that brewer's yeast
is deliberately using us humans for their own purpose.....
I think he's his own brand name of stupidity.
Boikat
As long as he doesn't try to market it :)
>
>Boikat
--
Bob.
When D-G made Madman out of clay he forgot to magic the brain. I think
that explains everything.
They have a job making beer, what's not to like?
--
A computer without Microsoft is like a chocolate cake without mustard.
> On Nov 27, 8:04�pm, VoiceOfReason <papa_...@cybertown.com> wrote:
>> When gnomes attack, reverence suffers.
>
>
> This is a spell checker error, --> not a chez watt.
>
okay, cool...which word is misspelled: gnome or reverence??
>
>
>>
>>
>> > The fact that man has similarities of the gnome with apes, is
>> > irreverent.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
--
XO
>> When gnomes attack, reverence suffers.
> This is a spell checker error, --> not a chez watt.
>>> The fact that man has similarities of the gnome
>>> with apes, is irreverent.
And yet, ever word in your sentence is correctly
spelled, so there's nothing about which a spell
checker should warn you.
They're just the wrong word choices in two cases.
Based on your substantial posting record as
evidence, this is because you are a dunce.
Perhaps if you learned what a spell checker _does_,
or how it _works_, you wouldn't try to blame a spell
checker for your vast intellectual deficiencies?
Just a thought.
xanthian.
Then again, perhaps if you learned how the universe
works, you wouldn't be trying to blame some deity
for pain, death, suffering, hatred, joy, love, evil,
mischances, luck, and the nearly endless variety of
species both living and extinct.