info
Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
The future of intelligent design and creationism in general
24 views
Skip to first unread message
RonO
Dec 19, 2021, 9:45:26 AM12/19/21
to talk-o...@moderators.isc.org
Scientific creationism has pretty much died out, and the intelligent
design scam seems to have run out of creationist rubes to run the bait
and switch on. I don't think that there has been a group of creationist
rubes stupid, ignorant, and dishonest enough to need the bait and switch
to go down for the last 4 years. This seems to be the longest gap by
more than double between bait and switch incidences. No legislators,
nor school boards have wanted to teach the science of intelligent design
in the public schools for quite a while. The ID perps have updated
their teach ID scam propaganda twice since the last bait and switch
needed to go down, but there haven't been any takers. The Discovery
Institute keeps claiming that there is ID science to teach in the public
schools, but no one has believed them for the last 4 years.
https://www.discovery.org/m/securepdfs/2021/03/Educators-Briefing-Packet-Condensed-Web.pdf
QUOTE:
For the record, we do not propose that intelligent
design be mandated in public schools, which is why
we strongly opposed the school district policy at
issue in the Kitzmiller v. Dover case. However, if you
voluntarily choose to raise the issue of intelligent
design in your classroom, it is vitally important that
any information you present accurately conveys
the views of the scientists and scholars who support
intelligent design, rather than a caricature of their
views. Otherwise you will be engaging in indoctrination,
not education.
END QUOTE:
QUOTE:
Has ID Been Banned from Public Schools?
No. Science teachers have the right to teach science.
Since ID is a legitimate scientific theory, it should be
constitutional to discuss in science classrooms and it
should not be banned from schools. If a science teacher
wants to voluntarily discuss ID, she should have the
academic freedom to do so.
END QUOTE:
It doesn't take much of any brain power to understand that the ID perps
are lying about being able to teach intelligent design science, since it
doesn't exist. When the ID perps ran the bait and switch on the Texas
and Louisiana creationist rubes who had already rolled over for the
switch scam, both states did not want to mandate teaching intelligent
design in the public schools. What they wanted to do was provide
textbook supplements so that teachers would have some idea of what they
could teach if they wanted to teach the bogus junk. The ID perps came
out against the effort, and reminded the creationist rubes that the
switch scam has nothing to do with IDiocy. It is just an obfuscation
and denial effort, and nothing more. No IDiots like the switch scam
because they don't want their kids to understand enough to know what
they should be in denial about.
After Phillip Johnson died there was an article in the Christian Post
trying to figure out what the future of intelligent design creationism
was. The article is a good example of why there is no future for
intelligent design creationism.
https://www.christianpost.com/news/what-is-the-future-of-the-intelligent-design-movement.html
The first thing that the article skips over is that Phillip Johnson quit
the ID scam after Dover, and he admitted that the creationists didn't
have the ID science to teach. I don't recall Johnson coming out in
public to support the ID scam after he made these statements.
https://web.archive.org/web/20070609171527/http:/sciencereview.berkeley.edu/articles/issue10/evolution.pdf
QUOTE:
I also don’t think that there is really a theory of intelligent
design at the present time to propose as a comparable alterna tive to
the Darwinian theory, which is, whatever errors it might contain, a
fully worked out scheme. There is no intelligent design theory that’s
comparable. Working out a positive theory is the job of the scientific
people that we have affiliated with the movement. Some of them are quite
convinced that it’s doable, but that’s for them to prove…No product is
ready for competition in the edu cational world.
END QUOTE:
QUOTE:
For his part, Johnson agrees: “I think the fat lady has sung for any
efforts to change the approach in the public schools…the courts are
just not going to allow it. They never have. The efforts to change
things in the public schools generate more powerful opposition than
accom plish anything…I don’t think that means the end of the issue at all.”
“In some respects,” he later goes on, “I’m almost relieved, and
glad. I think the issue is properly settled. It’s clear to me now that
the public schools are not going to change their line in my lifetime.
That isn’t to me where the action really is and ought to be.”
END QUOTE:
After Dover the ID perps held the 15th and 20th anniversary celebrations
of Phillip Johnson's book "Darwin on Trial" where the other ID perps
participated, but there was no comments from Phillip Johnson for either
event article. That told me that Johnson had really quit the ID scam
even if he was still listed as an advisor to the ID scam. If Johnson
wanted to continue to support the scam he would have made some type of
positive note about writing the book and some thank you for the
admiration. Johnson was already ticked off at the other ID perps when
the bait and swiitch started to go down in 2002. Johnson "retired" from
his ARN blog, but his retirement note claimed that the people that would
not teach ID in Ohio were wrong. At that time he likely had gotten
Wells' report on the other ID perps getting together and deciding that
they were not going to support teaching ID in Ohio. When Johnson
retired (the month after the bait and switch went down) it was still up
in the air as to whether ID would be taught in Ohio, and some board
members still wanted to teach the junk, and one of them proposed that
they change the definition of science in the Ohio science standards so
that ID could be taught. So the guys who refused to teach ID were the
other ID perps, and not the Ohio school board. My guess is that Johnson
came back to support teaching ID in Dover just to hold the other ID
perp's feet to the fire, but half of the ID perps ran without
testifying. Johnson sat in the courtroom every day and watched the ID
scam exposed to the public. Dover seems to have ended Johnson's support
for the creationist ID scam.
Johnson wasn't the only competent IDiot creationists to quit the ID scam
after Dover. The IDiot scientific organization (ISCID) died in 2008 and
the ID Network of academics supporting the ID creationist scam died in
2009, but the Christian Post article seems to have left that out of any
interpretation about any future IDiocy might have after most of the
intellectuals have obviously quit the scam.
The IDiot response (lack of response) to being given the best that they
ever had represented by the Top Six also indicates that IDiocy has no
legitimate future. It just looks like the ID scam will continue until
the rubes stop providing money to the effort. About all any of the ID
perps have done in the last 4 years is collect a paycheck. Denial and
obfuscation isn't doing much of anything. Dembski even got back on the
payroll after quitting, and apparently failing to come up with a means
to produce a legitimate income. All his IDiot junk produced before he
quit never made the cut and was not included in the Top Six, and he
hasn't produced anything since coming back.
Top Six:
https://groups.google.com/g/talk.origins/c/a2K79skPGXI/m/uDwx0i-_BAAJ
It is sad that the top six were used by the scientific creationists as
god-of-the-gaps stupidity that they never wanted to understand. Even
though they use the Big Bang for god-of-the-gaps denial they never
wanted to understand it nor use it to support their creationist beliefs.
The Big Bang is one of the science topics that the IDiot creationists
have tried to remove from the science standards in states like Kansas
and Texas, and it is still one of the goe-of-the-gaps denial arguments
up at the AIG creation museum. That is how much the Top Six means to
IDiots.
Any IDiot creationists left should read the Christian Post article and
try to figure out what kind of future IDiocy has in light of what it
actually is.
Ron Okimoto
design scam seems to have run out of creationist rubes to run the bait
and switch on. I don't think that there has been a group of creationist
rubes stupid, ignorant, and dishonest enough to need the bait and switch
to go down for the last 4 years. This seems to be the longest gap by
more than double between bait and switch incidences. No legislators,
nor school boards have wanted to teach the science of intelligent design
in the public schools for quite a while. The ID perps have updated
their teach ID scam propaganda twice since the last bait and switch
needed to go down, but there haven't been any takers. The Discovery
Institute keeps claiming that there is ID science to teach in the public
schools, but no one has believed them for the last 4 years.
https://www.discovery.org/m/securepdfs/2021/03/Educators-Briefing-Packet-Condensed-Web.pdf
QUOTE:
For the record, we do not propose that intelligent
design be mandated in public schools, which is why
we strongly opposed the school district policy at
issue in the Kitzmiller v. Dover case. However, if you
voluntarily choose to raise the issue of intelligent
design in your classroom, it is vitally important that
any information you present accurately conveys
the views of the scientists and scholars who support
intelligent design, rather than a caricature of their
views. Otherwise you will be engaging in indoctrination,
not education.
END QUOTE:
QUOTE:
Has ID Been Banned from Public Schools?
No. Science teachers have the right to teach science.
Since ID is a legitimate scientific theory, it should be
constitutional to discuss in science classrooms and it
should not be banned from schools. If a science teacher
wants to voluntarily discuss ID, she should have the
academic freedom to do so.
END QUOTE:
It doesn't take much of any brain power to understand that the ID perps
are lying about being able to teach intelligent design science, since it
doesn't exist. When the ID perps ran the bait and switch on the Texas
and Louisiana creationist rubes who had already rolled over for the
switch scam, both states did not want to mandate teaching intelligent
design in the public schools. What they wanted to do was provide
textbook supplements so that teachers would have some idea of what they
could teach if they wanted to teach the bogus junk. The ID perps came
out against the effort, and reminded the creationist rubes that the
switch scam has nothing to do with IDiocy. It is just an obfuscation
and denial effort, and nothing more. No IDiots like the switch scam
because they don't want their kids to understand enough to know what
they should be in denial about.
After Phillip Johnson died there was an article in the Christian Post
trying to figure out what the future of intelligent design creationism
was. The article is a good example of why there is no future for
intelligent design creationism.
https://www.christianpost.com/news/what-is-the-future-of-the-intelligent-design-movement.html
The first thing that the article skips over is that Phillip Johnson quit
the ID scam after Dover, and he admitted that the creationists didn't
have the ID science to teach. I don't recall Johnson coming out in
public to support the ID scam after he made these statements.
https://web.archive.org/web/20070609171527/http:/sciencereview.berkeley.edu/articles/issue10/evolution.pdf
QUOTE:
I also don’t think that there is really a theory of intelligent
design at the present time to propose as a comparable alterna tive to
the Darwinian theory, which is, whatever errors it might contain, a
fully worked out scheme. There is no intelligent design theory that’s
comparable. Working out a positive theory is the job of the scientific
people that we have affiliated with the movement. Some of them are quite
convinced that it’s doable, but that’s for them to prove…No product is
ready for competition in the edu cational world.
END QUOTE:
QUOTE:
For his part, Johnson agrees: “I think the fat lady has sung for any
efforts to change the approach in the public schools…the courts are
just not going to allow it. They never have. The efforts to change
things in the public schools generate more powerful opposition than
accom plish anything…I don’t think that means the end of the issue at all.”
“In some respects,” he later goes on, “I’m almost relieved, and
glad. I think the issue is properly settled. It’s clear to me now that
the public schools are not going to change their line in my lifetime.
That isn’t to me where the action really is and ought to be.”
END QUOTE:
After Dover the ID perps held the 15th and 20th anniversary celebrations
of Phillip Johnson's book "Darwin on Trial" where the other ID perps
participated, but there was no comments from Phillip Johnson for either
event article. That told me that Johnson had really quit the ID scam
even if he was still listed as an advisor to the ID scam. If Johnson
wanted to continue to support the scam he would have made some type of
positive note about writing the book and some thank you for the
admiration. Johnson was already ticked off at the other ID perps when
the bait and swiitch started to go down in 2002. Johnson "retired" from
his ARN blog, but his retirement note claimed that the people that would
not teach ID in Ohio were wrong. At that time he likely had gotten
Wells' report on the other ID perps getting together and deciding that
they were not going to support teaching ID in Ohio. When Johnson
retired (the month after the bait and switch went down) it was still up
in the air as to whether ID would be taught in Ohio, and some board
members still wanted to teach the junk, and one of them proposed that
they change the definition of science in the Ohio science standards so
that ID could be taught. So the guys who refused to teach ID were the
other ID perps, and not the Ohio school board. My guess is that Johnson
came back to support teaching ID in Dover just to hold the other ID
perp's feet to the fire, but half of the ID perps ran without
testifying. Johnson sat in the courtroom every day and watched the ID
scam exposed to the public. Dover seems to have ended Johnson's support
for the creationist ID scam.
Johnson wasn't the only competent IDiot creationists to quit the ID scam
after Dover. The IDiot scientific organization (ISCID) died in 2008 and
the ID Network of academics supporting the ID creationist scam died in
2009, but the Christian Post article seems to have left that out of any
interpretation about any future IDiocy might have after most of the
intellectuals have obviously quit the scam.
The IDiot response (lack of response) to being given the best that they
ever had represented by the Top Six also indicates that IDiocy has no
legitimate future. It just looks like the ID scam will continue until
the rubes stop providing money to the effort. About all any of the ID
perps have done in the last 4 years is collect a paycheck. Denial and
obfuscation isn't doing much of anything. Dembski even got back on the
payroll after quitting, and apparently failing to come up with a means
to produce a legitimate income. All his IDiot junk produced before he
quit never made the cut and was not included in the Top Six, and he
hasn't produced anything since coming back.
Top Six:
https://groups.google.com/g/talk.origins/c/a2K79skPGXI/m/uDwx0i-_BAAJ
It is sad that the top six were used by the scientific creationists as
god-of-the-gaps stupidity that they never wanted to understand. Even
though they use the Big Bang for god-of-the-gaps denial they never
wanted to understand it nor use it to support their creationist beliefs.
The Big Bang is one of the science topics that the IDiot creationists
have tried to remove from the science standards in states like Kansas
and Texas, and it is still one of the goe-of-the-gaps denial arguments
up at the AIG creation museum. That is how much the Top Six means to
IDiots.
Any IDiot creationists left should read the Christian Post article and
try to figure out what kind of future IDiocy has in light of what it
actually is.
Ron Okimoto
Joe Cummings
Dec 19, 2021, 12:50:26 PM12/19/21
to talk-o...@moderators.isc.org
are the attempts at a creeping coup by way of gaining control of local
elections.
A Ron Filipowski interview on CNN
https://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2021/12/18/trump-base-ron-filipkowski-nr-vpx.cnn
had the surprising information that these activities were also aimed
at school boards.
It could be possible that an attempt to mobilise creationists for
these activities might be presenting the faithful with an inducement
to perhaps institute the teaching of creationism.
Otherwise from this vantage point I don't see the point of getting
elected to school boards.
Have suspicious fun,
Joe Cummings
RonO
Dec 19, 2021, 9:10:26 PM12/19/21
to talk-o...@moderators.isc.org
creationists fell short. Creationists were out of options. It was the
only thing that could allow them to limit their kid's exposure to the
science that they didn't like. Banning was no longer an option, and
equal time was a lost cause, so all they had left was attempts to limit
their kids exposure. Kansas was the first success in 1999 they were
able to remove topics that they didn't like from the Kansas science
standards. The Big bang was out along with biological evolution and
they even removed the standard that kids taking chemistry should
understand isotopes because they didn't want them to understand half
lives and the implications for the age of the earth. They were not
banning anything, they were just removing the insentive to teach the
material because the students would not be required to understand them.
That lasted until the majority that the creationist had was voted out.
Creationist took over the Texas state school board when Texas had
already bent over for the ID perp's switch scam. The problem was that
the creationists didn't like the switch scam. The same changes to the
science standards was discussed, but most of the creationists weren't
stupid enough to think that they could get away with it because of what
happened in Kansas.
This doesn't mean that they won't stop trying because they have no other
options after the failure of IDiocy.
In 2020 the Arkansas state House passed a creationism bill that was
claimed to allow the teaching of Biblical creationism in the public
schools. It was blatantly unconstitutional, but like anti abortion
legislation, my guess is that they wanted to challenge the Lemon ruling.
The proponents claimed that it should not be illegal to teach
creationism in the public schools. The bill never made it out of
committee in the state Senate, and never came to a vote.
It is likely the future. Creationists are likely coming to believe that
if they get a conservative enough Court that the past decisions will be
over turned.
Ron Okimoto
0 new messages