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Szia Gyula,szerintem simán csatlakozzanak ők is: ha reply-to-all-ba felveszed őket, akkor ezzel csatlakoztak.fontos: az a téma weben is látható, itt zajlik:On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 15:40, Gyula OH Katona <katona....@renyi.hu> wrote:Adjam meg a szemináriumunk tagjainak e-címét is, hogy őket is
csatlakoztasd, vagy én tartsam velük a kapcsolatot? Gyula
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Endre
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Viktoria Lazar (Ph.D.)
Lab of Kishony
Emerson Life Sciences Building
Department of Biology, Technion – Israel Institute of Technology
Haifa 32000, Israel
http://kishony.net.technion.ac.il/people-2/
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Csak az új csatlakozások miatt küldöm ezt az üzenetet. Gyula
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Szia!Én is a Rényiből vagyok, és igen, könnyen lehet, hogy a megoldandó probléma triviális lesz, de az is lehet, hogy nem. Katona Gyuláék csoportja be lesz avatva, ha szükség lesz rá, ezeket a kérdéseket már fentebb megtárgyaltuk.Igen, van a dolognak irodalma, de csak a szép, matematikailag idealizált problémáknak van irodalma, mert már abból is rengetegféle van. Amik nagyon hasznos szemléletet és ötleteket adnak ahhoz, hogy egy ilyen gyakorlati problémát megoldjunk, de szinte biztos nem az lesz a megoldás, hogy leemelünk a polcról egy matematikai cikket, és egy az egyben alkalmazzuk.Üdv:Endre
On Fri, 3 Apr 2020 at 11:34, Janos Tapolcai <janos....@gmail.com> wrote:
Sziasztok,
ha sikerül a matematikai feladatot definiálni, akkor szerintem is hamar meg lesz rá az algoritmus. Lehet, hogy „triviális” lesz a probléma, de ha nem akkor érdemes majd felvenni a Rényi keresés szemináriumával a kapcsolatot, Katona O.H. Gyulán keresztül. Elég nagy irodalma van a csoport tesztelésnek. Például sokat nézték azt is ha a teszteknek van méretkorlátja, ha valamilyen valószínűséggel lehet false pozitív vagy negatív eredmény, stb.
A 10-es tesztméret nem ad sok mozgásteret, a 32-es lényegesen jobb lenne. Meggondolandó még, hogy 100-as tesztekből mit lehetne kihozni, ha a false pozitív vagy negatív válasznak ismert a valószínűsége.
Lényegesen kevesebb teszt kellene, ha legalább nagyságrendileg tudnánk becsülni a betegség valószínűségét az egyes mintákra nézve (ha a kérdőív bonyolult, akkor esteleg gépi tanulással a lakhelyből, életkorból, munkahelyből becsülve).
Üdv.
János
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On 2020. Apr 3., at 12:38, Dániel Gerbner <gerb...@gmail.com> wrote:A valószínűségek összege nem jó megoldás a csoport kiválasztásához, mert ahhoz vezetne hogy egy gyanús ember 9 tünetmentessel lenne együtt. Ennél az is jobb lenne, ha a gyanúsat külön tesztelnénk és a 9 másikat külön. Az első esetben több mint 1/3 eséllyel 11 teszt kéne, majdnem 2/3 eséllyel 1 teszt, a másik esetben mindig legalább 2, és kis eséllyel 11.
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Én is úgy sejtem, hogy az jön ki ami a Te intuíciód is, hogy nem érdemes tünetmentesek közé gyanúsat keverni. Emellett egy tünetmentes mintát valószínűleg érdemes több pool-ba is belekeverni.
A feladat megkeresni azt a tesztelési algoritmust, amivel adott számú tesztből a leghasznosabb információt nyerhetjük ki. Ehhez bizonyára nem kell majd új matematikát kidolgozni, a kritikus kérdés egy a valóságot jól leíró matematikai modell felállítása. Ehhez a legfontosabb kérdések az alábbiak:
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Viktoria Lazar (Ph.D.)
Lab of Kishony
Emerson Life Sciences Building
Department of Biology, Technion – Israel Institute of Technology
Haifa 32000, Israel
http://kishony.net.technion.ac.il/people-2/
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