[First Project] The Red Thumb Mark

Sean Perkins

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Oct 8, 2025, 11:36:47 AMOct 8

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It's in the wanted list so I thought I'd try. 73k words.

scan: https://archive.org/details/redthumbmark00free_0/page/n5/mode/2up

Gutenberg:https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/11128/pg11128-images.html

Sean Perkins

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Oct 8, 2025, 12:07:53 PMOct 8

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the directions say to Remove the header markup and the code snippet starts with the first <h2> tag. Do I cut everything out up to the first <h2> or do I keep any of it, the code is:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE html>
<html lang="en">
<head>

</head>
<body><div/>
<h1>THE RED THUMB MARK</h1>
<p> </p>
<h2>BY R. AUSTIN FREEMAN</h2>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<div class="pg_body_wrapper"><a id="PRF"></a></div>
<h2>
PREFACE
</h2>

and the ending looks like:

THE END
</p>
<p> </p>
<div/></body>
</html>

do I get rid of any of that?

thanks

Alex Cabal

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Oct 8, 2025, 3:29:09 PMOct 8

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Great, that one would be a good start.

Since you have a preface you will have to add a half title page. Make
sure to include the collection metadata - see the manual for how to do
that. Otherwise this should be pretty straightforward.

Make sure to read the Standard Ebooks Manual of Style before starting,
as you won't know what to fix if you haven't read the standards. In
particular, please closely review the semantics, high level patterns,
and typography sections:

https://standardebooks.org/manual

https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics

https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-structural-patterns

https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography

The step by step guide will take you from start to finish:

https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by-step

This page on common issues in older books may be useful:

https://standardebooks.org/contribute/how-tos/common-issues-when-working-on-public-domain-ebooks

Please email often if you have any questions at all. Our standards are
well-established so there is probably already a standard for formatting
whatever problem you've encountered.

When you're ready, email back with a link to your Github repository so
that I can mark you as having started.

Have fun! :)

> <https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/11128/pg11128-images.html>
>
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Sean Perkins

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Oct 9, 2025, 1:30:59 PMOct 9

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Is this a half title page?

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE html>
<html

xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"
xmlns:epub="http://www.idpf.org/2007/ops"
epub:prefix="z3998: http://www.daisy.org/z3998/2012/vocab/structure/, se: https://standardebooks.org/vocab/1.0"
xml:lang="en">
<head>
<title>The Red Thumb Mark</title>
<link href="../css/core.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css"/>
<link href="../css/local.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css"/>
</head>

<body epub:type="frontmatter">
<section id="halftitlepage" epub:type="halftitlepage">
<hgroup epub:type="fulltitle">
<h2 epub:type="title">The Red Thumb Mark</h2>
</hgroup>
</section>
</body>
</html>

Alex Cabal

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Oct 9, 2025, 2:17:53 PMOct 9

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Please send a link to your repo so we can start your project and assign
you a manager and reviewer. Thanks!

> https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics <https://
> standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics>
>
> https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-structural-
> patterns <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-
> structural-patterns>
>
> https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography <https://
> standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography>

>
> The step by step guide will take you from start to finish:
>
> https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by-

> step <https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-
> by-step>

>
> This page on common issues in older books may be useful:
>
> https://standardebooks.org/contribute/how-tos/common-issues-when-

> working-on-public-domain-ebooks <https://standardebooks.org/
> contribute/how-tos/common-issues-when-working-on-public-domain-ebooks>

>
> Please email often if you have any questions at all. Our standards are
> well-established so there is probably already a standard for formatting
> whatever problem you've encountered.
>
> When you're ready, email back with a link to your Github repository so
> that I can mark you as having started.
>
> Have fun! :)
>
>
> On 10/8/25 10:36 AM, Sean Perkins wrote:
> > It's in the wanted list so I thought I'd try. 73k words.
> > scan: https://archive.org/details/redthumbmark00free_0/page/n5/
> mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/redthumbmark00free_0/page/n5/
> mode/2up>

> > <https://archive.org/details/redthumbmark00free_0/page/n5/
> mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/redthumbmark00free_0/page/n5/
> mode/2up>>
> >
> > Gutenberg:https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/11128/pg11128-
> images.html <https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/11128/pg11128-
> images.html>

> > <https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/11128/pg11128-images.html
> <https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/11128/pg11128-images.html>>
> >
> >
> > --
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> send
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> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>
> > standardebooks/759de881-2003-4c25-
> a24f-5e7939dc81adn%40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> standardebooks/759de881-2003-4c25- <https://groups.google.com/d/
> msgid/standardebooks/759de881-2003-4c25->
> > a24f-5e7939dc81adn%40googlegroups.com?
> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <http://40googlegroups.com?
> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.

>
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> a714-46f32c95bedcn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

Sean Perkins

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Oct 10, 2025, 1:52:29 PMOct 10

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repo:https://github.com/rolomoto/r-austin-freeman_the-red-thumb-mark

Alex Cabal

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Oct 10, 2025, 5:33:00 PMOct 10

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OK, Vince will manage this with Lukas reviewing.

Vince can you address his question below?

On 10/10/25 12:52 PM, Sean Perkins wrote:
> repo:https://github.com/rolomoto/r-austin-freeman_the-red-thumb-mark

> <https://github.com/rolomoto/r-austin-freeman_the-red-thumb-mark>
>
> On Thursday, October 9, 2025 at 2:17:53 PM UTC-4 Alex Cabal wrote:
>
> Please send a link to your repo so we can start your project and assign
> you a manager and reviewer. Thanks!
>
> On 10/9/25 12:30 PM, Sean Perkins wrote:
> > Is this a half title page?
> >
> > <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
> > <!DOCTYPE html>
> > <html

> > xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml <http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml>"
> > xmlns:epub="http://www.idpf.org/2007/ops <http://
> www.idpf.org/2007/ops>"
> > epub:prefix="z3998: http://www.daisy.org/z3998/2012/vocab/
> structure/ <http://www.daisy.org/z3998/2012/vocab/structure/>,
> > se: https://standardebooks.org/vocab/1.0 <https://
> standardebooks.org/vocab/1.0>"

> manual> <https://standardebooks.org/manual <https://

> standardebooks.org/manual>>
> >
> > https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics <https://
> standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics> <https://

> > standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics <http://
> standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics>>
> >
> > https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-structural-

> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-structural->
> > patterns <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-
> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level->
> > structural-patterns>
> >
> > https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography <https://

> standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography> <https://
> > standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography <http://

> standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography>>
> >
> > The step by step guide will take you from start to finish:
> >
> > https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by-

> <https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by->
> > step <https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-
> step- <https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step->

> > by-step>
> >
> > This page on common issues in older books may be useful:
> >
> > https://standardebooks.org/contribute/how-tos/common-issues-when-
> <https://standardebooks.org/contribute/how-tos/common-issues-when->
> > working-on-public-domain-ebooks <https://standardebooks.org/

> <https://standardebooks.org/>
> > contribute/how-tos/common-issues-when-working-on-public-domain-

> ebooks>
> >
> > Please email often if you have any questions at all. Our
> standards are
> > well-established so there is probably already a standard for
> formatting
> > whatever problem you've encountered.
> >
> > When you're ready, email back with a link to your Github
> repository so
> > that I can mark you as having started.
> >
> > Have fun! :)
> >
> >
> > On 10/8/25 10:36 AM, Sean Perkins wrote:
> > > It's in the wanted list so I thought I'd try. 73k words.
> > > scan: https://archive.org/details/redthumbmark00free_0/page/n5/

> <https://archive.org/details/redthumbmark00free_0/page/n5/>
> > mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/redthumbmark00free_0/page/
> n5/ <https://archive.org/details/redthumbmark00free_0/page/n5/>
> > mode/2up>
> > > <https://archive.org/details/redthumbmark00free_0/page/n5/
> <https://archive.org/details/redthumbmark00free_0/page/n5/>
> > mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/redthumbmark00free_0/page/
> n5/ <https://archive.org/details/redthumbmark00free_0/page/n5/>

> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/
> msgid/>>
> > > standardebooks/759de881-2003-4c25-
> > a24f-5e7939dc81adn%40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>
> <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>>
> > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/
> d/msgid/>
> > standardebooks/759de881-2003-4c25- <https://groups.google.com/d/
> <https://groups.google.com/d/>
> > msgid/standardebooks/759de881-2003-4c25->
> > > a24f-5e7939dc81adn%40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>?
> > utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <http://40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>?

> > utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
> >
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> a714-46f32c95bedcn%40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/
> e50b6937-3bff-4203- <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> standardebooks/e50b6937-3bff-4203->
> > a714-46f32c95bedcn%40googlegroups.com?

> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <http://40googlegroups.com?
> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
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Vince

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Oct 10, 2025, 5:38:33 PMOct 10

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I’m not sure what the question is. That’s not one of our half title pages. As always, SEMoS is the place to look—SEMoS 6.5 has the details on the halftitlepage.

scp

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Oct 10, 2025, 5:40:37 PMOct 10

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I made a mistake, I think I corrected it.

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Vince

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Oct 10, 2025, 5:50:51 PMOct 10

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In taking a glance at your repository, the two commits do not follow our Step by Step guide. For the first few productions, and especially the first one, it is important to follow the Step by Step guide as closely as possible. This helps you get to know the tools and the process, and helps your reviewers easily see that all of the proper commits are in the proper places and contain the proper changes.

Since there are currently only two commits, I would suggest starting over.

Sean Perkins

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Oct 10, 2025, 8:48:57 PMOct 10

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I did it all over and the repo with inital commit is at:https://github.com/rolomoto/r-austin-freeman_the-red-thumb-mark

Vince

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Oct 11, 2025, 12:56:45 PMOct 11

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Looks better. Per the same step 6 in the Step by Step Guide, there is still some header/footer markup in body.xhtml that should be removed: the <?xml at the beginning, and the <div/></body></html> at the end. There shouldn't be any markup before or after the text, as split files will add the proper markup when it makes the individual chapter files.

Sean Perkins

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Oct 11, 2025, 4:29:38 PMOct 11

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I cleaned up the body to remove the header and footer markup. I split the body cleaned up the preface and the chapter files. I made the second commit "Split files and clean."

Vince

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Oct 11, 2025, 4:41:02 PMOct 11

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Looks fine, just keep following the Step by Step and you should be good.

Sean Perkins

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Oct 14, 2025, 1:07:10 AM (14 days ago) Oct 14

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I must have left the "Add a README file" checked when I started the repo, should I start again from scratch in order that it doesn't appear?

Lukas Bystricky

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Oct 14, 2025, 1:16:49 AM (14 days ago) Oct 14

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No, there's no need to do that. You can do a rebase and edit the initial commit to remove the file from there. If you need help with that please ask, but as far as rebases go that should be fairly straightforward.

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Sean Perkins

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Oct 14, 2025, 1:27:29 PM (13 days ago) Oct 14

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I did rebase and it's still there, I deleted the repo and I am starting over. I leave the add readme.md box set to off i.e. it's set to the left side although it doesn't say off but when i do the initial commit the option to add a readme is still there. I tried doing it with the add readme set on on i.e. the switch in the right side position but then there was no license. It appears from other se books that there is no readme option on the repo but how can I get it to not be there.

Sean Perkins

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Oct 14, 2025, 3:12:54 PM (13 days ago) Oct 14

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I have a question about splitting a body with a preface and subsequent chapters.
se split-file src/epub/text/body.xhtml and mv chapter* src/epub/text/ will name the preface chapter 1 and chapter 1 will be named chapter 2 etc. Is there a way to split so that doesn't happen?

Alex Cabal

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Oct 14, 2025, 3:16:32 PM (13 days ago) Oct 14

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Remove the preface from the file before you run that command

>>> freeman_the-red-thumb-mark <https://github.com/
>>> rolomoto/r-austin-freeman_the-red-thumb-mark>

>>>
>>> On Friday, October 10, 2025 at 5:50:51 PM UTC-4
>>> Vince wrote:
>>>
>>> In taking a glance at your repository, the
>>> two commits do not follow our Step by Step
>>> guide. For the first few productions, and
>>> especially the first one, it is important to
>>> follow the Step by Step guide as closely as
>>> possible. This helps you get to know the
>>> tools and the process, and helps your
>>> reviewers easily see that all of the proper
>>> commits are in the proper places and contain
>>> the proper changes.
>>>
>>> Since there are currently only two commits, I
>>> would suggest starting over.
>
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Sean Perkins

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Oct 14, 2025, 9:15:09 PM (13 days ago) Oct 14

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I'm using bbedit and all my paragraphs are in paragraph form but i notice that in se books each <p>...</p> is on one line? How is that achieved? I copy and paste a paragraph but it just formats like a regular paragraph and not on one line. E.g.

<p>
In writing the following story, the author has had in view no purpose
other than that of affording entertainment to such readers as are
interested in problems of crime and their solutions; and the story
itself differs in no respect from others of its class, excepting in that
an effort has been made to keep within the probabilities of ordinary
life, both in the characters and in the incidents.
</p>

Weijia Cheng

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Oct 14, 2025, 9:26:36 PM (13 days ago) Oct 14

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se clean puts each <p> element onto the same line (barring some exceptions). Are you following the step-by-step guide closely? You typically will not be editing the paragraphs until you've run se clean.

Sean Perkins

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Oct 16, 2025, 4:03:34 PM (11 days ago) Oct 16

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There is a word 'Thumbograph' (within left and right single quotation marks). How should I handle that? With italicization or as a neologism without italics?

8.2.10.1
When introducing new terms, non-English or technical terms are italicized, but terms composed of common English are set in quotation marks.

or

8.2.10.2

English neologisms in works where a special vocabulary is a regular part of the narrative are not italicized. For example science fiction works may necessarily contain made-up English technology words, and those are not italicized.

Vince

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Oct 16, 2025, 5:25:00 PM (11 days ago) Oct 16

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It’s English, so either way it’s not italicized. The quotes are fine.

Alex Cabal

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Oct 16, 2025, 5:45:26 PM (11 days ago) Oct 16

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Double quotes unless it's nested within dialogue

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Vince Rice

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Oct 16, 2025, 10:27:12 PM (11 days ago) Oct 16

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> On Oct 16, 2025, at 8:23 PM, Sean Perkins <spur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> the word fingerprint is spelled finger-print, should I change it? If so does that mean I should do a single editorial commit for that change?

You haven’t gotten to the modernize spelling step yet. Don’t worry about spelling until after that step; it will make a number of corrections, including that one.

Sean Perkins

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Oct 19, 2025, 10:02:17 PM (8 days ago) Oct 19

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I'm on step 14 adding semantics, am I right in assuming I have to read the whole book at this stage to find all the spots where semantics should be added? There are some tools in the guide but to get them all I don't see any other way.

Vince

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Oct 19, 2025, 11:52:19 PM (8 days ago) Oct 19

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Not really. There will be the occasional ones that are only caught while proofreading, but most can be caught with a quick glance or search through the book. Most semantics not handled by semanticate are on blockquotes, italics, or initials, all of which are easy to search for.

Emma Sweeney

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Oct 20, 2025, 12:02:45 AM (8 days ago) Oct 20

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`se lint .` can also help you find semantic issues.

Emma

David

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Oct 20, 2025, 4:18:07 AM (8 days ago) Oct 20

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In addition to what Vince and Emma said, I also find that this regex helps in finding strings that need to be wrapped in `<abbr...>...</abbr>` with the appropriate semantic:

[A-Z]\.[ ]?[A-Z]\.

Finds things like "M.P." *or* "E. M."

Vince Rice

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Oct 20, 2025, 11:14:50 AM (7 days ago) Oct 20

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That was the “easy to search for” part. :)

Even a single initial needs to be tagged; I use the following. It has the occasional false positive for sentences ending in I., and the middle initial(s) for initialisms longer than two characters, but those aren’t that common.

(?<!>)[A-Z]\.(?!<)

David Reimer

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Oct 20, 2025, 11:23:17 AM (7 days ago) Oct 20

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Oops - yeah! Perhaps I should have qualified that by adding: I always
run "singles", too... 😬 Doing "pairs" then "singles" works well in my
editor, since it lists all hits out nicely (doing singles first means
you get three hits for "W. E. B.", for example. (FWIW!)

On Mon, 20 Oct 2025 at 16:14, Vince Rice wrote:
>
> That was the “easy to search for” part. :)
>
> Even a single initial needs to be tagged; I use the following. It has the occasional false positive for sentences ending in I., and the middle initial(s) for initialisms longer than two characters, but those aren’t that common.
>
> (?<!>)[A-Z]\.(?!<)
>

Sean Perkins

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Oct 20, 2025, 4:42:43 PM (7 days ago) Oct 20

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Thanks for the tips!

Sean Perkins

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Oct 20, 2025, 9:14:21 PM (7 days ago) Oct 20

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is this right or wrong to start a file with roman numerals and chapter titles?

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>

<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xmlns:epub="http://www.idpf.org/2007/ops" epub:prefix="z3998: http://www.daisy.org/z3998/2012/vocab/structure/, se: https://standardebooks.org/vocab/1.0" xml:lang="en-GB">
<head>
<title>I: My Learned Brother</title>

<body epub:type="bodymatter z3998:fiction">
<section id="chapter-1" epub:type="chapter">
<hgroup>
<h2 epub:type="ordinal z3998:roman">I</h2>
<p epub:type="title">My Learned Brother</p>
</hgroup>
<p><i xml:lang="la">Conflagratam An° 1677.....

Sean Perkins

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Oct 20, 2025, 10:21:51 PM (7 days ago) Oct 20

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times are expressed in the form hour.minute e.g. 7.3 apparently means 7:03 and 10.23 means 10:23

should I change these?

if so, would that be an editorial commit?

Vince

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Oct 21, 2025, 12:20:57 AM (7 days ago) Oct 21

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The first question is answered in SEMoS 7.2.10, specifically 7.2.10.3; the second in SEMoS 8.11.3. As Alex’s instructions at the beginning of this thread indicated, familiarization with SEMoS is of great benefit, especially sections 7 and 8; it will answer the majority of (but not all) questions.

The yellow “Before you begin” box at the beginning of the Step by Step guide says:

In general, unless it’s covered in the typogrify checklist in step 9 of the Step by Step, assume that any changes to the source (scan) text are editorial, and, as the next paragraph in the yellow warning says, make them in their own commit. Then if the commit needs to be changed it can be.

Sean Perkins

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Oct 21, 2025, 7:07:19 PM (6 days ago) Oct 21

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I finished step 15 modernize spelling and hyphenation but there are some 400+ other em dashes located inside sentences like:

<p>“I am afraid,” said the latter, with a glance at me and the dinner table, “that our visit⁠—for which I am alone responsible⁠—is a most unseasonable one...

Is there tool to deal with that or what should I do about it?

Vince

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Oct 21, 2025, 7:15:33 PM (6 days ago) Oct 21

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Why would you need to “deal with that”? Those are normal; you don’t need to do anything with them.

Sean Perkins

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12:39 PM (5 hours ago) 12:39 PM

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should the word thumb-mark have a hyphen? Modernize spelling left it in.

Vince

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12:49 PM (4 hours ago) 12:49 PM

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Since it is in M-W (albeit the unabridged) as thumbmark, then no, it should not. Thanks for the report; I’ll submit a PR to add that to our words list.

Message has been deleted

Sean Perkins

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1:12 PM (4 hours ago) 1:12 PM

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FWIW, I find it in the abridged version: MW

Vince

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1:29 PM (4 hours ago) 1:29 PM

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Yes, that’s what I said.

Since it is in M-W (albeit the unabridged)

On Oct 27, 2025, at 12:11 PM, Sean Perkins <spur...@gmail.com> wrote:

FWIW, I find it in the unabridged version: MW

On Monday, October 27, 2025 at 12:49:25 PM UTC-4 Vince wrote:

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