[First Project] The Red Thumb Mark

Sean Perkins

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Oct 8, 2025, 11:36:47 AMOct 8

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It's in the wanted list so I thought I'd try. 73k words.

scan: https://archive.org/details/redthumbmark00free_0/page/n5/mode/2up

Gutenberg:https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/11128/pg11128-images.html

Sean Perkins

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Oct 8, 2025, 12:07:53 PMOct 8

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the directions say to Remove the header markup and the code snippet starts with the first <h2> tag. Do I cut everything out up to the first <h2> or do I keep any of it, the code is:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE html>
<html lang="en">
<head>

</head>
<body><div/>
<h1>THE RED THUMB MARK</h1>
<p> </p>
<h2>BY R. AUSTIN FREEMAN</h2>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<div class="pg_body_wrapper"><a id="PRF"></a></div>
<h2>
PREFACE
</h2>

and the ending looks like:

THE END
</p>
<p> </p>
<div/></body>
</html>

do I get rid of any of that?

thanks

Alex Cabal

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Oct 8, 2025, 3:29:09 PMOct 8

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Great, that one would be a good start.

Since you have a preface you will have to add a half title page. Make
sure to include the collection metadata - see the manual for how to do
that. Otherwise this should be pretty straightforward.

Make sure to read the Standard Ebooks Manual of Style before starting,
as you won't know what to fix if you haven't read the standards. In
particular, please closely review the semantics, high level patterns,
and typography sections:

https://standardebooks.org/manual

https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics

https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-structural-patterns

https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography

The step by step guide will take you from start to finish:

https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by-step

This page on common issues in older books may be useful:

https://standardebooks.org/contribute/how-tos/common-issues-when-working-on-public-domain-ebooks

Please email often if you have any questions at all. Our standards are
well-established so there is probably already a standard for formatting
whatever problem you've encountered.

When you're ready, email back with a link to your Github repository so
that I can mark you as having started.

Have fun! :)

> <https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/11128/pg11128-images.html>
>
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Sean Perkins

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Oct 9, 2025, 1:30:59 PMOct 9

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Is this a half title page?

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE html>
<html

xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"
xmlns:epub="http://www.idpf.org/2007/ops"
epub:prefix="z3998: http://www.daisy.org/z3998/2012/vocab/structure/, se: https://standardebooks.org/vocab/1.0"
xml:lang="en">
<head>
<title>The Red Thumb Mark</title>
<link href="../css/core.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css"/>
<link href="../css/local.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css"/>
</head>

<body epub:type="frontmatter">
<section id="halftitlepage" epub:type="halftitlepage">
<hgroup epub:type="fulltitle">
<h2 epub:type="title">The Red Thumb Mark</h2>
</hgroup>
</section>
</body>
</html>

Alex Cabal

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Oct 9, 2025, 2:17:53 PMOct 9

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Please send a link to your repo so we can start your project and assign
you a manager and reviewer. Thanks!

> https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics <https://
> standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics>
>
> https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-structural-
> patterns <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-
> structural-patterns>
>
> https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography <https://
> standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography>

>
> The step by step guide will take you from start to finish:
>
> https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by-

> step <https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-
> by-step>

>
> This page on common issues in older books may be useful:
>
> https://standardebooks.org/contribute/how-tos/common-issues-when-

> working-on-public-domain-ebooks <https://standardebooks.org/
> contribute/how-tos/common-issues-when-working-on-public-domain-ebooks>

>
> Please email often if you have any questions at all. Our standards are
> well-established so there is probably already a standard for formatting
> whatever problem you've encountered.
>
> When you're ready, email back with a link to your Github repository so
> that I can mark you as having started.
>
> Have fun! :)
>
>
> On 10/8/25 10:36 AM, Sean Perkins wrote:
> > It's in the wanted list so I thought I'd try. 73k words.
> > scan: https://archive.org/details/redthumbmark00free_0/page/n5/
> mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/redthumbmark00free_0/page/n5/
> mode/2up>

> > <https://archive.org/details/redthumbmark00free_0/page/n5/
> mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/redthumbmark00free_0/page/n5/
> mode/2up>>
> >
> > Gutenberg:https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/11128/pg11128-
> images.html <https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/11128/pg11128-
> images.html>

> > <https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/11128/pg11128-images.html
> <https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/11128/pg11128-images.html>>
> >
> >
> > --
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> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/>
> > standardebooks/759de881-2003-4c25-
> a24f-5e7939dc81adn%40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> standardebooks/759de881-2003-4c25- <https://groups.google.com/d/
> msgid/standardebooks/759de881-2003-4c25->
> > a24f-5e7939dc81adn%40googlegroups.com?
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> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.

>
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> a714-46f32c95bedcn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

Sean Perkins

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Oct 10, 2025, 1:52:29 PMOct 10

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repo:https://github.com/rolomoto/r-austin-freeman_the-red-thumb-mark

Alex Cabal

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Oct 10, 2025, 5:33:00 PMOct 10

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OK, Vince will manage this with Lukas reviewing.

Vince can you address his question below?

On 10/10/25 12:52 PM, Sean Perkins wrote:
> repo:https://github.com/rolomoto/r-austin-freeman_the-red-thumb-mark

> <https://github.com/rolomoto/r-austin-freeman_the-red-thumb-mark>
>
> On Thursday, October 9, 2025 at 2:17:53 PM UTC-4 Alex Cabal wrote:
>
> Please send a link to your repo so we can start your project and assign
> you a manager and reviewer. Thanks!
>
> On 10/9/25 12:30 PM, Sean Perkins wrote:
> > Is this a half title page?
> >
> > <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
> > <!DOCTYPE html>
> > <html

> > xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml <http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml>"
> > xmlns:epub="http://www.idpf.org/2007/ops <http://
> www.idpf.org/2007/ops>"
> > epub:prefix="z3998: http://www.daisy.org/z3998/2012/vocab/
> structure/ <http://www.daisy.org/z3998/2012/vocab/structure/>,
> > se: https://standardebooks.org/vocab/1.0 <https://
> standardebooks.org/vocab/1.0>"

> manual> <https://standardebooks.org/manual <https://

> standardebooks.org/manual>>
> >
> > https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics <https://
> standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics> <https://

> > standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics <http://
> standardebooks.org/manual/latest/4-semantics>>
> >
> > https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-structural-

> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-structural->
> > patterns <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level-
> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/7-high-level->
> > structural-patterns>
> >
> > https://standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography <https://

> standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography> <https://
> > standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography <http://

> standardebooks.org/manual/latest/8-typography>>
> >
> > The step by step guide will take you from start to finish:
> >
> > https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by-

> <https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step-by->
> > step <https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-
> step- <https://standardebooks.org/contribute/producing-an-ebook-step->

> > by-step>
> >
> > This page on common issues in older books may be useful:
> >
> > https://standardebooks.org/contribute/how-tos/common-issues-when-
> <https://standardebooks.org/contribute/how-tos/common-issues-when->
> > working-on-public-domain-ebooks <https://standardebooks.org/

> <https://standardebooks.org/>
> > contribute/how-tos/common-issues-when-working-on-public-domain-

> ebooks>
> >
> > Please email often if you have any questions at all. Our
> standards are
> > well-established so there is probably already a standard for
> formatting
> > whatever problem you've encountered.
> >
> > When you're ready, email back with a link to your Github
> repository so
> > that I can mark you as having started.
> >
> > Have fun! :)
> >
> >
> > On 10/8/25 10:36 AM, Sean Perkins wrote:
> > > It's in the wanted list so I thought I'd try. 73k words.
> > > scan: https://archive.org/details/redthumbmark00free_0/page/n5/

> <https://archive.org/details/redthumbmark00free_0/page/n5/>
> > mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/redthumbmark00free_0/page/
> n5/ <https://archive.org/details/redthumbmark00free_0/page/n5/>
> > mode/2up>
> > > <https://archive.org/details/redthumbmark00free_0/page/n5/
> <https://archive.org/details/redthumbmark00free_0/page/n5/>
> > mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/redthumbmark00free_0/page/
> n5/ <https://archive.org/details/redthumbmark00free_0/page/n5/>

> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/d/
> msgid/>>
> > > standardebooks/759de881-2003-4c25-
> > a24f-5e7939dc81adn%40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>
> <http://40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>>
> > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ <https://groups.google.com/
> d/msgid/>
> > standardebooks/759de881-2003-4c25- <https://groups.google.com/d/
> <https://groups.google.com/d/>
> > msgid/standardebooks/759de881-2003-4c25->
> > > a24f-5e7939dc81adn%40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>?
> > utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <http://40googlegroups.com
> <http://40googlegroups.com>?

> > utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
> >
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> a714-46f32c95bedcn%40googlegroups.com <http://40googlegroups.com>
> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/
> e50b6937-3bff-4203- <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/
> standardebooks/e50b6937-3bff-4203->
> > a714-46f32c95bedcn%40googlegroups.com?

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Vince

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Oct 10, 2025, 5:38:33 PMOct 10

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I’m not sure what the question is. That’s not one of our half title pages. As always, SEMoS is the place to look—SEMoS 6.5 has the details on the halftitlepage.

scp

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Oct 10, 2025, 5:40:37 PMOct 10

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I made a mistake, I think I corrected it.

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Vince

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Oct 10, 2025, 5:50:51 PMOct 10

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In taking a glance at your repository, the two commits do not follow our Step by Step guide. For the first few productions, and especially the first one, it is important to follow the Step by Step guide as closely as possible. This helps you get to know the tools and the process, and helps your reviewers easily see that all of the proper commits are in the proper places and contain the proper changes.

Since there are currently only two commits, I would suggest starting over.

Sean Perkins

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Oct 10, 2025, 8:48:57 PMOct 10

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I did it all over and the repo with inital commit is at:https://github.com/rolomoto/r-austin-freeman_the-red-thumb-mark

Vince

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Oct 11, 2025, 12:56:45 PMOct 11

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Looks better. Per the same step 6 in the Step by Step Guide, there is still some header/footer markup in body.xhtml that should be removed: the <?xml at the beginning, and the <div/></body></html> at the end. There shouldn't be any markup before or after the text, as split files will add the proper markup when it makes the individual chapter files.

Sean Perkins

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Oct 11, 2025, 4:29:38 PMOct 11

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I cleaned up the body to remove the header and footer markup. I split the body cleaned up the preface and the chapter files. I made the second commit "Split files and clean."

Vince

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Oct 11, 2025, 4:41:02 PMOct 11

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Looks fine, just keep following the Step by Step and you should be good.

Sean Perkins

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Oct 14, 2025, 1:07:10 AMOct 14

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I must have left the "Add a README file" checked when I started the repo, should I start again from scratch in order that it doesn't appear?

Lukas Bystricky

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Oct 14, 2025, 1:16:49 AMOct 14

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No, there's no need to do that. You can do a rebase and edit the initial commit to remove the file from there. If you need help with that please ask, but as far as rebases go that should be fairly straightforward.

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Sean Perkins

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Oct 14, 2025, 1:27:29 PMOct 14

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I did rebase and it's still there, I deleted the repo and I am starting over. I leave the add readme.md box set to off i.e. it's set to the left side although it doesn't say off but when i do the initial commit the option to add a readme is still there. I tried doing it with the add readme set on on i.e. the switch in the right side position but then there was no license. It appears from other se books that there is no readme option on the repo but how can I get it to not be there.

Sean Perkins

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Oct 14, 2025, 3:12:54 PMOct 14

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I have a question about splitting a body with a preface and subsequent chapters.
se split-file src/epub/text/body.xhtml and mv chapter* src/epub/text/ will name the preface chapter 1 and chapter 1 will be named chapter 2 etc. Is there a way to split so that doesn't happen?

Alex Cabal

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Oct 14, 2025, 3:16:32 PMOct 14

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Remove the preface from the file before you run that command

>>> freeman_the-red-thumb-mark <https://github.com/
>>> rolomoto/r-austin-freeman_the-red-thumb-mark>

>>>
>>> On Friday, October 10, 2025 at 5:50:51 PM UTC-4
>>> Vince wrote:
>>>
>>> In taking a glance at your repository, the
>>> two commits do not follow our Step by Step
>>> guide. For the first few productions, and
>>> especially the first one, it is important to
>>> follow the Step by Step guide as closely as
>>> possible. This helps you get to know the
>>> tools and the process, and helps your
>>> reviewers easily see that all of the proper
>>> commits are in the proper places and contain
>>> the proper changes.
>>>
>>> Since there are currently only two commits, I
>>> would suggest starting over.
>
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Sean Perkins

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Oct 14, 2025, 9:15:09 PMOct 14

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I'm using bbedit and all my paragraphs are in paragraph form but i notice that in se books each <p>...</p> is on one line? How is that achieved? I copy and paste a paragraph but it just formats like a regular paragraph and not on one line. E.g.

<p>
In writing the following story, the author has had in view no purpose
other than that of affording entertainment to such readers as are
interested in problems of crime and their solutions; and the story
itself differs in no respect from others of its class, excepting in that
an effort has been made to keep within the probabilities of ordinary
life, both in the characters and in the incidents.
</p>

Weijia Cheng

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Oct 14, 2025, 9:26:36 PMOct 14

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se clean puts each <p> element onto the same line (barring some exceptions). Are you following the step-by-step guide closely? You typically will not be editing the paragraphs until you've run se clean.

Sean Perkins

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Oct 16, 2025, 4:03:34 PMOct 16

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There is a word 'Thumbograph' (within left and right single quotation marks). How should I handle that? With italicization or as a neologism without italics?

8.2.10.1
When introducing new terms, non-English or technical terms are italicized, but terms composed of common English are set in quotation marks.

or

8.2.10.2

English neologisms in works where a special vocabulary is a regular part of the narrative are not italicized. For example science fiction works may necessarily contain made-up English technology words, and those are not italicized.

Vince

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Oct 16, 2025, 5:25:00 PMOct 16

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It’s English, so either way it’s not italicized. The quotes are fine.

Alex Cabal

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Oct 16, 2025, 5:45:26 PMOct 16

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Double quotes unless it's nested within dialogue

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Vince Rice

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Oct 16, 2025, 10:27:12 PMOct 16

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> On Oct 16, 2025, at 8:23 PM, Sean Perkins <spur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> the word fingerprint is spelled finger-print, should I change it? If so does that mean I should do a single editorial commit for that change?

You haven’t gotten to the modernize spelling step yet. Don’t worry about spelling until after that step; it will make a number of corrections, including that one.

Sean Perkins

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Oct 19, 2025, 10:02:17 PMOct 19

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I'm on step 14 adding semantics, am I right in assuming I have to read the whole book at this stage to find all the spots where semantics should be added? There are some tools in the guide but to get them all I don't see any other way.

Vince

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Oct 19, 2025, 11:52:19 PMOct 19

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Not really. There will be the occasional ones that are only caught while proofreading, but most can be caught with a quick glance or search through the book. Most semantics not handled by semanticate are on blockquotes, italics, or initials, all of which are easy to search for.

Emma Sweeney

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Oct 20, 2025, 12:02:45 AMOct 20

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`se lint .` can also help you find semantic issues.

Emma

David

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Oct 20, 2025, 4:18:07 AMOct 20

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In addition to what Vince and Emma said, I also find that this regex helps in finding strings that need to be wrapped in `<abbr...>...</abbr>` with the appropriate semantic:

[A-Z]\.[ ]?[A-Z]\.

Finds things like "M.P." *or* "E. M."

Vince Rice

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Oct 20, 2025, 11:14:50 AMOct 20

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That was the “easy to search for” part. :)

Even a single initial needs to be tagged; I use the following. It has the occasional false positive for sentences ending in I., and the middle initial(s) for initialisms longer than two characters, but those aren’t that common.

(?<!>)[A-Z]\.(?!<)

David Reimer

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Oct 20, 2025, 11:23:17 AMOct 20

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Oops - yeah! Perhaps I should have qualified that by adding: I always
run "singles", too... 😬 Doing "pairs" then "singles" works well in my
editor, since it lists all hits out nicely (doing singles first means
you get three hits for "W. E. B.", for example. (FWIW!)

On Mon, 20 Oct 2025 at 16:14, Vince Rice wrote:
>
> That was the “easy to search for” part. :)
>
> Even a single initial needs to be tagged; I use the following. It has the occasional false positive for sentences ending in I., and the middle initial(s) for initialisms longer than two characters, but those aren’t that common.
>
> (?<!>)[A-Z]\.(?!<)
>

Sean Perkins

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Oct 20, 2025, 4:42:43 PMOct 20

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Thanks for the tips!

Sean Perkins

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Oct 20, 2025, 9:14:21 PMOct 20

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is this right or wrong to start a file with roman numerals and chapter titles?

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>

<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xmlns:epub="http://www.idpf.org/2007/ops" epub:prefix="z3998: http://www.daisy.org/z3998/2012/vocab/structure/, se: https://standardebooks.org/vocab/1.0" xml:lang="en-GB">
<head>
<title>I: My Learned Brother</title>

<body epub:type="bodymatter z3998:fiction">
<section id="chapter-1" epub:type="chapter">
<hgroup>
<h2 epub:type="ordinal z3998:roman">I</h2>
<p epub:type="title">My Learned Brother</p>
</hgroup>
<p><i xml:lang="la">Conflagratam An° 1677.....

Sean Perkins

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Oct 20, 2025, 10:21:51 PMOct 20

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times are expressed in the form hour.minute e.g. 7.3 apparently means 7:03 and 10.23 means 10:23

should I change these?

if so, would that be an editorial commit?

Vince

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Oct 21, 2025, 12:20:57 AMOct 21

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The first question is answered in SEMoS 7.2.10, specifically 7.2.10.3; the second in SEMoS 8.11.3. As Alex’s instructions at the beginning of this thread indicated, familiarization with SEMoS is of great benefit, especially sections 7 and 8; it will answer the majority of (but not all) questions.

The yellow “Before you begin” box at the beginning of the Step by Step guide says:

In general, unless it’s covered in the typogrify checklist in step 9 of the Step by Step, assume that any changes to the source (scan) text are editorial, and, as the next paragraph in the yellow warning says, make them in their own commit. Then if the commit needs to be changed it can be.

Sean Perkins

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Oct 21, 2025, 7:07:19 PMOct 21

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I finished step 15 modernize spelling and hyphenation but there are some 400+ other em dashes located inside sentences like:

<p>“I am afraid,” said the latter, with a glance at me and the dinner table, “that our visit⁠—for which I am alone responsible⁠—is a most unseasonable one...

Is there tool to deal with that or what should I do about it?

Vince

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Oct 21, 2025, 7:15:33 PMOct 21

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Why would you need to “deal with that”? Those are normal; you don’t need to do anything with them.

Sean Perkins

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Oct 27, 2025, 12:39:48 PMOct 27

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should the word thumb-mark have a hyphen? Modernize spelling left it in.

Vince

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Oct 27, 2025, 12:49:25 PMOct 27

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Since it is in M-W (albeit the unabridged) as thumbmark, then no, it should not. Thanks for the report; I’ll submit a PR to add that to our words list.

Message has been deleted

Sean Perkins

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Oct 27, 2025, 1:12:35 PMOct 27

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FWIW, I find it in the abridged version: MW

Vince

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Oct 27, 2025, 1:29:32 PMOct 27

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Yes, that’s what I said.

Since it is in M-W (albeit the unabridged)

On Oct 27, 2025, at 12:11 PM, Sean Perkins <spur...@gmail.com> wrote:

FWIW, I find it in the unabridged version: MW

On Monday, October 27, 2025 at 12:49:25 PM UTC-4 Vince wrote:

Sean Perkins

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Oct 29, 2025, 1:49:11 PMOct 29

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Would this be alright for art work? The story is about a young man accused of theft and there is a young lady who supports him.

Vince

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Oct 29, 2025, 2:46:00 PMOct 29

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I don’t know if Alex cares about something as well known as a Munch, but if it’s OK you will need to find PD proof. See SEMoS 10.3.3.7.

Alex Cabal

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Oct 29, 2025, 4:01:19 PMOct 29

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Munch is fine; it's not the artist's fame, but rather a particular
painting's fame. The Scream is a poor choice for just about any book
because it's such a cultural cliche. But we have plenty of other Munch
in the corpus.

On 10/29/25 1:45 PM, Vince wrote:
> I don’t know if Alex cares about something as well known as a Munch, but

> if it’s OK you will need to find PD proof. See SEMoS 10.3.3.7 <https://
> standardebooks.org/manual/1.8.4/single-page#10.3.3.7>.

>
>> On Oct 29, 2025, at 12:49 PM, Sean Perkins <spur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>

>> Would this <https://artsandculture.google.com/asset/separation/-
>> AFoDHxU1msdjw>be alright for art work? The story is about a young man

>> accused of theft and there is a young lady who supports him.
>

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> standardebooks/1319C7A2-38CE-48E2-A0CA-B19152850112%40letterboxes.org
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Vince

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Oct 29, 2025, 4:09:27 PMOct 29

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Great, thanks, Alex.

In addition to PD proof, Sean, you need to do a mockup of the cover. Because of the cover orientation, I think it’s going to be difficult to get both of those characters in the frame.

Sean Perkins

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Oct 30, 2025, 1:15:50 AMOct 30

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For PD the painting is in the top row 3rd from the left. Publication date of the book is 1900.

Vince

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Oct 30, 2025, 1:37:50 AMOct 30

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Those are not the same work.

Before you spend too much more time looking for PD, I would again suggest you do a mockup. If both characters won’t fit in the frame, then PD proof won’t matter.

Sean Perkins

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Oct 30, 2025, 1:51:11 AMOct 30

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What is a mockup?

Vince Rice

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Oct 30, 2025, 9:31:38 AMOct 30

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How the cover will look on the book, with the title bar. I’m on a Mac, where the process is very simple; I don’t actually know how others do it. But you need a picture of how the end result will look, without committing the picture to the repository.

On Oct 30, 2025, at 12:51 AM, Sean Perkins <spur...@gmail.com> wrote:

What is a mockup?

Sean Perkins

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Oct 31, 2025, 12:45:59 AMOct 31

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It totally cut her out but I think it works thematically with just him. It's about a man unjustly accused of stealing jewels and leaving behind a bloody thumb print.

separation_optimized.jpg

Vince Rice

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Oct 31, 2025, 11:14:27 AMOct 31

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OK, then you just need PD proof.

On Oct 30, 2025, at 11:46 PM, Sean Perkins <spur...@gmail.com> wrote:

It totally cut her out but I think it works thematically with just him. It's about a man unjustly accused of stealing jewels and leaving behind a bloody thumb print.

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<separation_optimized.jpg>

Sean Perkins

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Oct 31, 2025, 2:34:59 PMOct 31

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I can't find anything on Separation. How about this one, a court proceeding figures prominently in the book.

courtroom_resized.jpg

Alex Cabal

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Oct 31, 2025, 2:37:46 PMOct 31

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It looks like those people are wearing 18th century clothes, this book
is set in the late 19th century

On 10/31/25 1:34 PM, Sean Perkins wrote:
> I can't find anything on Separation. How about this one, a court
> proceeding figures prominently in the book.
>
> On Friday, October 31, 2025 at 11:14:27 AM UTC-4 Vince Rice wrote:
>
> OK, then you just need PD proof.
>
>> On Oct 30, 2025, at 11:46 PM, Sean Perkins <spur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> It totally cut her out but I think it works thematically with
>> just him. It's about a man unjustly accused of stealing jewels and
>> leaving behind a bloody thumb print.
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, October 30, 2025 at 9:31:38 AM UTC-4 Vince Rice wrote:
>>
>> How the cover will look on the book, with the title bar. I’m
>> on a Mac, where the process is very simple; I don’t actually
>> know how others do it. But you need a picture of how the end

>> result will look, /without/ committing the picture to the

>> repository.
>>
>>> On Oct 30, 2025, at 12:51 AM, Sean Perkins
>>> <spur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> What is a mockup?
>>
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>> standardebooks/f3b17992-5d78-43bf-

>> b894-4dbe879657abn%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/
>> d/msgid/standardebooks/f3b17992-5d78-43bf-
>> b894-4dbe879657abn%40googlegroups.com?
>> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
>> <separation_optimized.jpg>

>
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> utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

Sean Perkins

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Oct 31, 2025, 2:57:30 PMOct 31

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How about this. At one point a woman, older than the one picture, is questioned during the trial.

yeamesdefendantcounsel_resized.jpeg

Message has been deleted

Sean Perkins

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Oct 31, 2025, 4:45:57 PMOct 31

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another possibility, the protagonist is uses a microscope a lot to solve the crime.

microscope_resized.jpg

Vince

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Oct 31, 2025, 6:26:44 PMOct 31

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I think either of those could work, although the first one doesn’t look like it’s happening in a courtroom. You just need PD proof for whichever one you choose.

Sean Perkins

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Nov 1, 2025, 1:05:25 AMNov 1

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If a painting is marked with a CC0 license is that PD proof?

Lukas Bystricky

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Nov 1, 2025, 3:07:14 AMNov 1

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Almost certainly, especially if it comes from one of our approved museums.

Sean Perkins

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Nov 1, 2025, 11:13:35 AMNov 1

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the microscope painting is marked as PDM 1.0, is that accepatable?

David

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Nov 1, 2025, 11:45:04 AMNov 1

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Unfortunately not. The PDM is not the same as CC0. It's the latter that's required for our artwork (if sourced in this way, rather than demonstrating it's in the Public Domain in the US).

David / Fife, UK

Vince

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Nov 1, 2025, 12:52:18 PMNov 1

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https://standardebooks.org/manual/1.8.4/single-page#10.3.3.7.5

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Sean Perkins

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Nov 2, 2025, 1:02:30 PMNov 2

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the original cover with PD

red_thumb_resized.jpg

Vince

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Nov 2, 2025, 2:04:31 PMNov 2

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https://standardebooks.org/manual/1.8.4/single-page#10.3.3.4

Sean Perkins

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Nov 2, 2025, 4:43:26 PMNov 2

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It's abstract by with red hands and presumably red thumbs on printed material. CC0.

Vince

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Nov 2, 2025, 5:46:52 PMNov 2

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We use abstracts for sci-fi and occasionally omnibuses, but they’re not a good fit for a mystery novel.

Think about aspects of the plot, or locations, or people. A couple of the ones you proposed earlier would work, or similar ones, you just need PD proof.

Sean Perkins

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Nov 2, 2025, 7:21:27 PMNov 2

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how about this with pd. The story revolves around two men, kind of like Sherlock Holmes and Watson, who are often discussing the case.

Message has been deleted

Sean Perkins

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Nov 2, 2025, 7:47:12 PMNov 2

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maybe this hones in a little on PD and the image

Vince

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Nov 4, 2025, 12:25:25 AMNov 4

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There is a link button right at the top of the page, on the far right in this picture.

PastedGraphic-1.png

Sean Perkins

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Nov 4, 2025, 3:44:07 PMNov 4

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PD and image

Sean Perkins

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Nov 7, 2025, 12:09:03 PM (14 days ago) Nov 7

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Is this artwork acceptable?

Vince

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Nov 7, 2025, 12:25:24 PM (14 days ago) Nov 7

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From my last email:

> The painting and PD proof look good, but you again need to do a full mockup of the cover, complete with the title bar. This should be part of your submission of any possible cover. This painting is again wider than the cover, so at least part of one or both of the men will be cut off, and the titlebar will cover some portion of the seated one. You and your manager (in this case me) need to see what the end result will look like before signing off on the choice. It may be fine, we just need to see for sure.

> On Nov 7, 2025, at 11:09 AM, Sean Perkins <spur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Is this artwork acceptable?

Sean Perkins

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Nov 7, 2025, 5:25:50 PM (14 days ago) Nov 7

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cover.svg

Vince

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Nov 7, 2025, 5:32:37 PM (14 days ago) Nov 7

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Very good, I think that looks fine. I’ll assign this to the painting.

Sean Perkins

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Nov 8, 2025, 1:17:19 AM (13 days ago) Nov 8

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I ran se lint and get an error with D.Sc. I tried D. Sc. but still got an error.

Screenshot 2025-11-08 at 1.13.44 AM.png

Vince

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Nov 8, 2025, 1:35:26 AM (13 days ago) Nov 8

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Because it’s not an initialism; as SEMoS 8.10.2 says, an initialism means each initial is pronounced separately, which is not the case here. You didn't say what the definition is for, but I assume it’s a Doctor of Science degree. If so, search for “academic degree” in the single-page SEMoS.

David

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Nov 8, 2025, 4:33:02 AM (13 days ago) Nov 8

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Just to jump in for a moment - in the hope of preventing Sean getting caught in unnecessary aggro - the mockup has a couple issues:

(1) The frame will need to be cropped out, of course, but more importantly,...

(2) We don't simply squeeze an image to get it to fit the 2:3 ratio of the cover. This is the original (same scale):

You can see how much wider it is! I think a crop can still work; this is how I would do it:

Which looks pretty good to me! Hope this helps....

David / Fife, UK

David

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Nov 8, 2025, 11:01:06 AM (13 days ago) Nov 8

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(Moving discussion online.) There is a "how-to" on creating the cover which recommends GIMP: see #2 at this link—

https://standardebooks.org/contribute/how-tos/how-to-choose-and-create-a-cover-image#suitable

You wouldn't be the first to need to correct the first cover image committed (it's happened to me!). Just replace your `cover.jpg` with the new, correct one; re-run `se build-images` and the commit with a message like "Fix faulty cover image" or the like.

On Saturday Sean wrote:

> what settings do you use to do that? I'm using ImageMagik and just set the resolution to 1400x2100. I already committed the cover what do I do about that?
Thanks

On Saturday, 8 November 2025 at 09:33:02 UTC David wrote:

Just to jump in for a moment - in the hope of preventing Sean getting caught in unnecessary aggro - the mockup has a couple issues...

Sean Perkins

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Nov 8, 2025, 11:51:39 AM (13 days ago) Nov 8

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Thank you David. How is this now?

cover.svg

David

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Nov 8, 2025, 11:57:56 AM (13 days ago) Nov 8

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It's Vince's call, but looks good to me.

Vince

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Nov 8, 2025, 12:39:03 PM (13 days ago) Nov 8

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Well, Vince obviously wasn’t paying close enough attention the first time, so I don’t know that we should be trusting my eyes. But yes, it looks OK to me, too. (Thanks for the initial catch, David!)

While we’re here, I took a look at the repository, and there are a number of issues.

Commit 0a09a5c, “Manual typography changes,” changes curly quotes back to straight quotes in the two files with changes.
Commit 4edabaa, “Semanticate,” contains several other manual changes in addition to semanticate, e.g. removing cruft from the end of chapters, changing the chapter headers, etc.
Commit cf915c0, “corrected name of halftitlepage,” wasn’t correcting the name, it was adding a halftitlepage.
Commit 14cad33, “[Editorial] Modernize hyphenation and spelling,” again contains manual changes other than just running modernize-spelling, e.g. changing straight quotes to curly, moving punctuation inside emphasis, etc.
Commit ffce673, “[Editorial] Modernize a time expression,” contains two changes other than fixing the time, and one of those appears to be an error.
Commit 143a14b, “added a vessel tag,” contains a change other than the tag, and that change is editorial, and therefore cannot be part of this commit.

As discussed after the two first two commits of the original repository, and in the large yellow banner at the top of the Step by Step guide, commit hygiene is extremely important for our productions. A single commit should contain a single unit of work. As the Step by Step also notes, the commit for the running of a tool—typogrify, semanticate, etc.— should only contain the changes from the running of the tool. This is also in keeping with a single commit has a single unit of work.

Each of the above issues would require a rebase to correct. That is a lot of rebasing, and while it could be done, it would be very difficult and error-prone. I would suggest that you rename your local repository, then create a new one and start over, this time following the Step by Step exactly, or as close to it as possible. Specifically, make sure there are no outstanding changes before running a tool, then commit the changes from the running of that tool immediately afterwords. Don’t combine two types of changes—removing the cruft is one change, changing the chapter headers is a different one. A commit to change time formats should only contain changes to the time formats. And so on.

Sean Perkins

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Nov 8, 2025, 2:07:25 PM (13 days ago) Nov 8

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If I understand correctly, I should rename the local repository then create a new one from scratch (which will have the same name as the original old one). Then create a remote repo on GH from the new local repo. There would be no point in having the old remote repo so I can delete it? I can keep the old local repo for the art work but that would be all I could salvage from it?

Alex Cabal

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Nov 8, 2025, 2:51:49 PM (13 days ago) Nov 8

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It looks like you resized the cover without taking the aspect ratio into
account. The art is now squashed.

Instead of just resizing it to fit the ratio, you must first crop out
the picture frame, then scale its largest dimension to fit the largest
dimension of the target cover art size. Then, crop it down to the final
cover size.

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Alex Cabal

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Nov 8, 2025, 2:52:16 PM (13 days ago) Nov 8

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Oops, I should have read this whole thread first before replying...

On 11/8/25 3:33 AM, David wrote:
> Just to jump in for a moment - in the hope of preventing Sean getting
> caught in unnecessary aggro - the mockup has a couple issues:
>

> cover-thumb-400x600.jpg
>
> (1) The frame will need to be cropped out, of course, but more
> importantly,...
> (2) We don't simply squeeze an image to get it to fit the 2:3 ratio of
> the cover. This is the original (same scale):
>

> cover-thumb-source-sc.jpg
>
> You can see how much wider it is! I think a crop can still work; this is
> how I would do it:
>

> cover-thumb-se.jpg
>
> Which looks pretty good to me! Hope this helps....
>
> David / Fife, UK
> On Friday, 7 November 2025 at 22:32:37 UTC Vince wrote:
>
> Very good, I think that looks fine. I’ll assign this to the painting.
>
>
>> On Nov 7, 2025, at 4:25 PM, Sean Perkins <spur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Friday, November 7, 2025 at 12:25:24 PM UTC-5 Vince wrote:
>>
>> From my last email:
>>
>> > The painting and PD proof look good, but you again need to
>> do a full mockup of the cover, complete with the title bar.
>> This should be part of your submission of any possible cover.
>> This painting is again wider than the cover, so at least part
>> of one or both of the men will be cut off, and the titlebar
>> will cover some portion of the seated one. You and your
>> manager (in this case me) need to see what the end result will
>> look like before signing off on the choice. It may be fine, we
>> just need to see for sure.
>>
>>
>> > On Nov 7, 2025, at 11:09 AM, Sean Perkins
>> <spur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Is this artwork acceptable?
>

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Sean Perkins

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Nov 9, 2025, 6:30:19 PM (12 days ago) Nov 9

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I have an error in se lint that has to do with the line containing:

...to complete the equation, <span epub:type="z3998:roman">X</span> = ?”</p>
This looks like a math equation and spaces are indicated.

Screenshot 2025-11-09 at 6.25.42 PM.png

Vince

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Nov 9, 2025, 6:50:11 PM (12 days ago) Nov 9

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When asking about source issues, please include a link to the scans where the source issue is.

If it’s an equation, then the X isn’t a roman numeral and shouldn’t be tagged as such.

While you should always assume lint is correct, that is occasionally not true, which is why we have a lint ignore file.

Sean Perkins

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Nov 9, 2025, 7:03:21 PM (12 days ago) Nov 9

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scan

Sean Perkins

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Nov 10, 2025, 11:53:01 AM (11 days ago) Nov 10

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I've finished this here's the repo.

Lukas Bystricky

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Nov 11, 2025, 3:31:09 PM (10 days ago) Nov 11

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Very nice work, I've filed a few issues to look at. Nothing major.

Alex, I had one question for you. The title uses "Thumb Mark" while the text uses thumb-mark throughout, and MW (unabridged) uses thumbmark. Do we want to standardize this? And if so, in what way?

Alex Cabal

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Nov 11, 2025, 3:51:06 PM (10 days ago) Nov 11

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Yes, we should be consistent. The title could be read as either "The
mark made by a red thumb" or "a thumbmark that is red". So if it's the
latter then we want to modernize the title to M-W. The ebook body should
be modernized in either case.

On 11/11/25 2:31 PM, Lukas Bystricky wrote:
> Very nice work, I've filed a few issues to look at. Nothing major.
>
> Alex, I had one question for you. The title uses "Thumb Mark" while the
> text uses thumb-mark throughout, and MW (unabridged) uses thumbmark

> <https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/thumbmark>. Do we want to

> standardize this? And if so, in what way?
>
> On Monday, November 10, 2025 at 5:53:01 PM UTC+1 spur...@gmail.com wrote:
>

> I've finished this here's the repo <https://github.com/rolomoto/r-
> austin-freeman_the-red-thumb-mark>.

>
> On Sunday, November 9, 2025 at 7:03:21 PM UTC-5 Sean Perkins wrote:
>

> scan <https://archive.org/details/redthumbmark00free_0/page/194/
> mode/2up?q=%22to+complete+the+equation%22>

>
> On Sunday, November 9, 2025 at 6:50:11 PM UTC-5 Vince wrote:
>
> When asking about source issues, please include a link to
> the scans where the source issue is.
> If it’s an equation, then the X isn’t a roman numeral and
> shouldn’t be tagged as such.

> While you should always /assume/ lint is correct, that is

> occasionally not true, which is why we have a lint ignore file.
>
>> On Nov 9, 2025, at 5:30 PM, Sean Perkins
>> <spur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I have an error in se lint that has to do with the line
>> containing:
>> ...to complete the equation, <span
>> epub:type="z3998:roman">X</span> = ?”</p>

>> This looks like a math equation and spaces <https://
>> standardebooks.org/manual/1.8.4/single-page#8.8.8.1.1> are
>> indicated.

>
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Sean Perkins

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Nov 11, 2025, 7:07:59 PM (10 days ago) Nov 11

to Standard Ebooks

Lucas, I think I've addressed the issues. I think the uncopyright is correct as is, the commit there was, I think, to revert to the original which I had somehow changed.

Lukas Bystricky

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Nov 12, 2025, 1:18:29 PM (9 days ago) Nov 12

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Ok, I think that looks good. A couple things left to do.

Sean Perkins

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Nov 12, 2025, 7:41:05 PM (9 days ago) Nov 12

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I think I've addressed those last issues.

Lukas Bystricky

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Nov 13, 2025, 3:45:33 PM (8 days ago) Nov 13

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Looks good. Last thing is just a couple lint errors related to thumb-mark in the identifiers in the meta data.

Sean Perkins

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Nov 13, 2025, 4:14:45 PM (8 days ago) Nov 13

to Standard Ebooks

Thanks, I fixed those. I had to remove the file se-lint-ignore to run lint because I get an error:

Invalid path in se-lint-ignore.xml rule: chapter-13.xhtml.

I didn't have this error before and for some reason now it shows up. With se-lint-ignore in the root I can't run the tool.