Bangladesh to cancel EVMs: Paper ballots only for general election - India News Stream

[Devasahayam MG]

https://www.indianewsstream.com/spot-light/bangladesh-to-cancel-evms-paper-ballots-only-for-general-election/ 

Pakistan has already rejected EVMs.. Now Bangladesh.. But India's Election Commission is clinging to it like leeches... Is it because India is "Mother of all Democracies?"

MGD 

[Sukla Sen]

There are EVMs and EVMs.

So...

Under the obtaining Indian conditions, going back to paper ballots may very well turn out to be simply disastrous.

This would open up large rooms for manipulations at the points of polling and, maybe, even at the stage of counting.

Here're two very informed, and fairly exhaustive, write-ups:

I. <https://www.theindiaforum.in/article/there-no-ghost-indian-electronic-voting-machine>.

II. <https://www.theindiaforum.in/article/revisiting-evm-hacking-story>.

However, to be sure, constant review of the latest developments is a must.

Moreover, cross-checking of the EVM result with physical counting of only 5 EVMs per assembly constituency appears to be woefully inadequate.

All in all, efforts should be directed at plugging the, possible, loopholes of the EVMs -- not trashing these outright.

That could be simply suicidal.

Just to add, the West Bengal assembly poll in 2021 was an indicator enough that at least till then the regime was unable to manipulate the EVMs to any meaningful extent.

Not to forget, Shah was virtually camping in West Bengal and, for that matter, even Modi. Central forces were widely deployed and allegedly misused.

Sukla

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[Satinath Choudhary]

Dear Shukla jee,

Just to rebut your statement and inference: 

"Just to add, the West Bengal assembly poll in 2021 was an indicator enough that at least till then the regime was unable to manipulate the EVMs to any meaningful extent.

Not to forget, Shah was virtually camping in West Bengal and, for that matter, even Modi. Central forces were widely deployed and allegedly misused." 

Allow me to say that Brahmashtras should not be used in all state elections, lest people's doubt regarding the veracity of EVMs may solidify beyond any doubt. 

It is specifically to delude people into thinking that EVMs should not be doubted because if EVMs could be rigged, they would not have lost in West Bengal, Punjab, Himanchal Pradesh, and other places. The Brahmashtra will be used and probably was used, only for the parliamentary general election, and probably for crucial states like Uttar Pradesh, judiciously.

I started a point-by-point rebuttal of the two articles that you posted a while ago, but I got distracted by a number of things. I would soon finish the rebuttal, and complete my writing regarding how the paper ballots and hand counting of the ballots can be accomplished with a good deal of veracity, including possible recounting.

Thanks for giving me an opportunity to express my thinking about the possible existence of a "Brahmashtra" and the reason why it is not used in all state elections.

-Satinath

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[Sukla Sen]

Dear Sati ji,

Thanks for responding.

What's your point?

The EVM is and would be manipulated only in general elections? This tactic is not resorted to in case of state elections?

Let's, for argument's sake, accept your claim.

What's the picture that emerges from state polls?

Two things, however, must be kept in mind. One, Modi has a much stronger pull than the party and, hence, the BJP enjoys a much greater advantage in the general elections as compared to the state elections. This the drive for a single poll. Two, the 2019 poll outcome was, essentially determined by Pulwama-Balakot (ref.: <https://groups.google.com/g/greenyouth/c/jDH-u677CzY/m/z4ES9B7OBAAJ>). And the inevitable happened.

Would wait for your critique of the two write-ups by Prabir.

Sukla

[Satinath Choudhary]

BTW, I should have pointed out that the Brahmashtra software probably exists in all EVMs. It's only a matter of sending the appropriate secret code that will do the "job". While the malicious part/code of the chip software is not turned on, the existence of such a code in the EVMs'  chips cannot be detected, because the EVM will behave normally, as it should, and it will pass all kinds of input and checking of the output before or after the election and counting. 

After counting, say, half of the EVMs, is finished, if the counts do not seem to be favorable at specific counting centers, the key personnel may be to sked to use the Brahmashtra. That too not everywhere, just at enough counting centers to ensure 3/4 majority of the rogue party. The rogue signal can enable the EVM to read  read votes for all candidates internally, and shovel out half of each candidates' votes to the rogue candidate within a fraction of seconds. Not only that, manipulation may be only of the display units, leaving the votes in the vote bins of various candidates untouched. It is only the display that is recorded by various counting agents, news reporters and official counting officers. The internal votes stored may remain the same as originally stored. If you count actual machine votes stored in it and try to match against the VVPAT count, they would match, proving the veracity of the machine. Only the display was rigged. In such a case even verification of 100% of the machines would not reveal any rigging because rigging was only in the display unit. 

Sure, if 100% of the machines were re-read, the re-reading of the machines may not match the earlier reading on the basis of which the rogues were declared to be the winners. However, once again, when in power, they will laugh off any demands for re-reading of the machines. 

The above scenario is only one of those that I have imagined, as an old retired computer science professor. There are much more smarter people who may be imagining much more sophisticated schemes and willing to sell their schemes to the highest bidder. Once the scheme has been plotted out carefully, converting the same into a program/software is a child's game. Then all  that would be needed is to find a chip printing company that would be willing print the rogue software in place of what they receive from the Indian manufacturers of EVMs. 

With warmest regards,

-Satinath

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[Satinath Choudhary]

If you read my imagined way of rigging the EVMs, you will not be able to point out any flaw in my imagination. Once the scheme is accepted to be flawless, writing a program to facilitate the scheme is, if not a child's game, a junior in computer science would definitely be able to convert it into a working program. 

Now, the question is, if it is so easy to produce rigged machines, why won't it be resorted to? Is it because noh, noh, BJP cannot be so immoral? 

-Satinath

=======

 

[Sukla Sen]

Please read: "This the drive for a single poll" as "Thus the drive for a simultaneous poll".

Sukla

[Satinath Choudhary]

I do not understand what you mean by "Thus the drive for a simultaneous poll". It does not matter whether the state elections are held at different times or not. The rogues will always want to lose some of the state elections, to give ammunitions in the hands of EVM-faith-keepers to shoot down the EVM doubters. 

-Satinath

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[Sukla Sen]

This is what I mean: <https://theprint.in/india/governance/examine-feasibility-of-niti-aayogs-proposal-for-simultaneous-polls-law-ministry-to-ec/49328/>. (And: <https://amp.scroll.in/latest/979551/pm-narendra-modi-renews-push-for-simultaneous-polls-says-they-are-what-the-country-needs>, <https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/independence-day-2019-prime-minister-narendra-modi-makes-fresh-pitch-for-simultaneous-elections-2085448/amp/1>, <https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/pm-modi-asks-nda-leaders-to-create-environment-for-simultaneous-lok-sabha-assembly-polls/articleshow/62705231.cms, <https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/pm-modi-calls-all-party-meet-to-discuss-simultaneous-polls/articleshow/69818099.cms>.)

Sukla

[Satinath Choudhary]

Dear Sukla jee,

First of all, I am impressed with the amazing ease with which you are able to pull out relevant articles and quote them. You have to teach us your archiving system. 

I knew that Modi had been pushing for simultaneous elections for Lok Sabha and all of the Assembly elections, though I had not seen that many news articles about it. But the thing I was asking you was: what difference does it make with regard to the rigging possibilities of EVMs? 

No matter whether the elections are simultaneous or not, it may be useful to lose some of the state elections to silence the doubters of EVM.

On the other hand, it may make a big impact if Modi is seen to have won all of the elections with a thumping majority. That is likely to silence the EVM doubters too. It may thoroughly demoralize them.

In any case, I think it is a very simple matter to rig EVMs, and so there is a 

high probability that it has been rigged, and will continue to be rigged.

-Satinath

=======

[Sukla Sen]

Dear Sati ji,

Thanks again for your super-prompt response.

(Btw, the internet archives. One is to trawl. There're of course many more news reports.)

Guess, you are to ask yourself why Modi wants a simultaneous poll?

That's the key.

In any case, I think it is a very simple matter to rig EVMs, and so there is a 

high probability that it has been rigged, and will continue to be rigged.

That's your belief -- unsubstantiated. Based on assumptions and presumptions and no evidence.

You've, of course, got every right to cling on to that.

Sukla

[Devasahayam MG]

Dear Mr Sukla Sen,

I have been following your discourse with Prof Satinath Choudhary. On this subject

we have done lots of work in Citizens Commission on Elections and came up with a comprehensive Report in 2021. I am the Coordinator of the Commision. It is based on this Report that all the political parties minus BJP have taken up the issue aggressively. Herewith I am sending you the Link to the Report. You may  read it and then contact our technical expert Prof Subhasis Bannerjee, Head of Computer Science Department, IIT, Delhi presently on secondment to Ashoka University. 

citizens-commission-on-elections-vol.-i.pdf (wordpress.com)

I wonder whether you have read any of my articles on the subject.. You also seem to easily fall in line with the official line of thinking and articles written without any research and deep study

.

MGD

________________________________________________________

On Wed, 5 Apr 2023 at 18:29, Prof. Sebastian Morris <mor...@iima.ac.in> wrote:

Dear Mr. Devasahayam,

Would it be possible for you to put me in touch with someone (with technical knowledge of the processor, rom etc)  who is familiar with EVMs ? Would be much appreciated. I am working on a submission to the EC on why EVMs should not be used.

Thanks and regards

Sebastian

Prof. Sebastian Morris

Goa Institute of Management 

Former Professor at the Indian Institute of Management, Ahmedabad

Mb: +91-9824232121

See my recent books:

(edited) The Difficulty of Being Gajendra Haldea - Reflections on His Life and Legacy. Bloomsbury. 2023. 

Macroeconomic Policy in India Since the Global Financial Crisis - Trends, Policies and Challenges in Economic Revival Post-Covid. Springer. 2022

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[Sukla Sen]

Dear Mr Devasahayam,

Thanks for sending the stuff.

Would go through the same soon enough.

In the meantime, let me point out something else.

<<On the EC’s earlier plans to use EVMs in up to 150 constituencies, Jahangir said a Tk 8,000 crore project was undertaken in preparation, but the Planning Commission did not let the project go further. EVM suppliers, Bangladesh Machine Tools Factory, said Taka 1,260 crore would be needed to refurbish 1.1 lakh EVMs. The Commission had sought the money from the Finance ministry, but the ministry expressed its inability to pay that amount, he said.

But he also said, “Many political parties could not reach a consensus on the use of EVMs in the national election. The Commission may have made the decision considering all these factors.”>>

(Excerpted from the article of which the link was provided by you in your initiating post.)

Also relevant: <<[T]he EVM system was used in two polling stations in Rangpur in December 2016 and Khulna City Corporation in May 2016. Following this success, the Bangladesh Election Commission has announced the introduction of EVMs in one-third of the seats in the Eleventh Parliamentary Elections.>>

(Source: <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_voting_in_Bangladesh>.)

So, three things emerge:

I. Bangladesh has as yet hardly ever used EVM in national poll.

It was still very much in the teething stage.

II. The plan to use it in the coming national poll in one-third of the constituencies has now been dropped on account of (i) absence of requisite financial support from the government and (ii) protests by various opposition parties.

III. It's highly unlikely that the EVMs proposed to be used in Bangladesh are similar to those in use in India.

My initial response provides -- almost at the very beginning:

<<Under the obtaining Indian conditions, going back to paper ballots may very well turn out to be simply disastrous.

This would open up large rooms for manipulations at the points of polling and, maybe, even at the stage of counting.>>

Sati ji has scrupulously skirted that.

Nor you have talked of it.

Of course, I'm yet to scan your documents.

May I also request you to forward the attachment that I myself have referred to / sent to send to your technical advisor for specific comments?

That would make life much simpler.

Sukla

[Devasahayam MG]

Your apprehension about going back to paper ballot is unfounded.. I am saying this as one who has conducted elections decades ago... Booth capturing is almost impossible now due to vast improvement in booth security, monitoring and communication facilities.

Besides there cannot be true expression of "will of the people" with machines doing the voting and counting..

MGD

[Sukla Sen]

Dear Mr Devasahayam,

I cannot but be a bit amazed.

During the assembly poll in West Bengal, there were reports of booth capturing even in Mamata's own constituency.

"The EC’s sharp letter drew an angry response from Trinamool leaders. “We have lodged 1,460 complaints with the EC. Till date, we have received responses to only three complaints. And we are a recognised political party. Do we still have to say with what motive and how this Election Commission is working?” Subrata Mukherjee asked. Trinamool’s Rajya Sabha leader Derek O’Brien said, “We do not think it is necessary now to respond to the media on this. Let them first respond to a hundred, two hundred more.”"

(Ref.: <https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/elections/assembly-elections/west-bengal/election-commission-junks-didi-claim-studying-if-april-1-events-merit-action/articleshow/81903730.cms>, <https://www.facebook.com/cnnnews18/videos/440287910408479/>, <https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x80bwi7>.)

More revealing video clips were in circulation then.

Arguably, that's how she got defeated.

And, just think of it, she was the incumbent Chief Minister!

And it was just one of many.

The EVM -- which makes "chhaappa vote" (voting in bunches) impossible -- saved the day. 

Never mind.

"Besides there cannot be true expression of "will of the people" with machines doing the voting and counting."

That's, I guess, the real giveaway.

At the heart of this (stupid and suicidal?) campaign lies an anti-technology crusade.

Of course, political parties when defeated will find it too convenient to cry "EVM!".

The BJP, while in opposition, was a very cantankerous proponent for EVM ban. Yet, it could win.

It's, of course, not to tell that constant vigilance is an absolute must.

Things keep changing and one has to keep close track and be able to highlight the specific flaws/loopholes/mischiefs.

No doubt about that.

How about the misleading presentation of the development in Bangladesh?

Sukla

[Devasahayam MG]

Don't shoot from the hip based on your preconceived ideas.. Read the CCE Report which I sent you which is based on depositions from top technology experts in the world..

You are welcome to give para wise rebuttal based on your vast knowledge on the subject.. Till then don't preach technology when we are talking about democracy..

MGD 

[Sukla Sen]

Dear Mr Devasahayam,

Thanks again for your prompt response.

Looks like you've given a miss to my very initial response:

<<Thanks for sending the stuff.

Would go through the same soon enough.

...

May I also request you to forward the attachment that I myself have referred to / sent to send to your technical advisor for specific comments?

That would make life much simpler.>>

The attachment is here: <https://groups.google.com/g/greenyouth/c/25avW9jdbi4>.

In case you have missed it.

Sukla